anti-mormonism

"Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them." D&C 121: 16.

Every year there is a semiannual conference in Salt Lake City where Prophets and Apostles give instruction and guidance to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and every year there are protesters picketing outside the conference hall. These people claim to be sending out a message of love, however for some the message is loud and clear.

Now these people are most likely ineffective due in part to their obnoxious style of "Street preaching" yelling all kinds of false-isms into megaphones, and waving around sacred temple garments in public. (that'll really convert us.) I compare these people to Nazis standing in front of synagogues waving around swastika flags, this is just some of the ugliness of anti Mormonism.

Mormons, plane bellied sneetches.
Mormons, plane bellied sneetches.

Some people who oppose us are from Ministries which dedicate much time and effort to scrape through the history of the church to find some kind of condemning statement made by a past LDS Prophet or Apostle. almost always the information comes from an obscure source, or uncanonized doctrine or a speculative statement, and present it as official church doctrine. Sometimes I wonder if the members of those congregations know about their own church's doctrine or if they just spend all of their time bashing on Mormons.

The main point is that they never really wish to seek out the truth, even when they are completly wrong about something they still leave it out there as a fact, and they hardly ever apologize for their mistakes. not only this but some attacks on the book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith actually hold us to a higher standard than the prophets of the Bible.

The fact is, Mormons are true Christians, were just not Protestants. We believe in the same Jesus from the Bible, therefore we believe in the Bible as the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

So go ahead and debate me if you want, I don't care. Throw everything you've got at me, I've done a lot of studying and I have alot of faith, in God, Christ and all of their prophets, including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and all the other Latterday Prophets to whom God has sent to mankind in these last days.  

Questions Anti-Mormons can't answer

  • How did Joseph know so much about the Arabian Peninsula?
  • If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?
  • How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica?
  • Why does ancient Mesoamerican geography AND culture provide a plausible setting for the Book of Mormon?
  • How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names?
  • Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates?
  • How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts?
  • Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon's idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?
  • What other church better follows the Biblical model of emphasizing the bilateral covenant nature of the Gospel?
  • If there was no apostasy in the Church of Jesus Christ, then what happened to prophets?
  • What other Church better follows the Biblical organization given for the Church?
  • If Joseph Smith just made up the idea of vicarious baptism for the dead, why do numerous ancient documents validate the LDS claim that this was an authentic early Christian practice?
  • At a time when all Christian churches taught that temples were no longer needed, how did Joseph so effectively restore the ancient temple concept on his own?
  • What other church better corresponds with early Christianity in terms of teaching the true relationship between faith, grace, and works?
  • Why do the earliest Christian writings sound much closer to LDS theology than they to modern "mainstream" Christianity?
  • If the modern concept of the Trinity is true, then why does the different LDS view on the oneness of God find such strong support in the writings of the earliest Christians?
  • If it's unchristian, unbiblical, and evil to believe that humans have divine potential, why do many Biblical and early Christian sources speak of the humans becoming "gods"?
  • If the Bible is infallible, by whose authority were the various books of the Bible selected in an infallible manner? By whose authority were the infallible translations made and approved?
  • Who authorized the changes in the ritual of baptism that occurred since the New Testament Church? And who in your church has true authority from God to perform baptisms?
  • If the Book of Abraham is a fraud, then how do you account for the details in the text that would later be given extensive support by numerous ancient documents that were not available to Joseph Smith?

 

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Comments 75 comments

Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

Sounds like you and the Liberals are in the same boat. You get slandered by lies and people take the lies as the truth.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

People have been spreading the same lies for years thinking that people will not be looking for the facts, and sadly they are right.

They only want to hear the so called "Shocking truth".


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

This one did. You posted the same thing on my hub concerning his martyrdom obviously without reading it. So tell me, does this action invalidate him from being a prophet? And if your answer is yes, then do you not accept the teachings of Abraham, David, Solomon, Gideon, Paul, or Elijah, who all (Like the prophet Joseph) took the life of somone else, in their own defense? And even for atrocities of lesser character, men regarded as prophets, commited murder, or participated in the act of murder for their own personal gain.

Did Paul testify against Steven resulting in his being stoned to death?

Did David slay Goliath and commit murder for his own lustful reasons?

What about Gideon who lead the armies of Israel to victory?

What about Abraham who slaughtered the kings of Soddom and Gommorah?

the list goes on. Am I to understand that you hold Joseph Smith to a higher standard than all of these people?


thetruthhurts2009 7 years ago

Allow me: Because they didn't change God's word and didn't add to the bible to suit their needs. And Joseph killed two people. What did say against Stephen? Was Paul yet saved? David slew Goliath but whose command? Soddom and Gommorah? Are you serious?

You are still defending a sinner, who lied, drank, smoked, marrying 30+ women mock the bible and Christians and murdered 2 men instead of dying with honor for his “truth”. I see you didn’t address the rest of the vid, because it’s will start to make you uncomfortable and doubt your cult-like religion.

You guys love to play the victim, but the whole reason Joe Smith started your religion, is because he HATED Christians and til this day you religion still proclaims it’s the only to God, not Jesus. If that's not proof I don't know what is. I know you probably delete this thus proved my point.

If Biblical Scripture was distorted by the so-called “abominable church” of 1 Nephi 13, why is there no evidence of this corruption found in the thousands of manuscripts we possess of the Bible today, many dating prior to the formation of the Catholic church? How could these manuscripts all agree with 99.5% accuracy if “plain and precious” truths were removed?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

This is just the pot calling the kettle black, you are implying that it was alright for those people to to take the life of another human being, but it was not alright for Joseph Smith to kill two people, but why did he kill them? He was defending his own life against a mob of people who were trying to kill him. Why were they there? He was in jail, about to be falsely prosicuted and they knew that they had nothing on him. So a mob assembled contrary to the laws of justice, and took their hatred into their own hands. Those people should not have even been there.

And what happened to those two people who died? They were eaten alive by maggots, jaw bones fell from the face, limb to limb rotted away, the stence was unbearable to anyone who came near their hospital beds, they died in agony as the Lord vindicated his justice against his prophet.

you condemned him for being a polygamist and yet you still read the bible which has several accounts of men of prophecy who had several wives.

The Book of Mormon has many marvelous and unique doctrines that expand on the Biblical text. The sincere reader knows that all scripture is inspiring. The prophet Nephi in the Book of Mormon makes the bold claim that it would contain "many plain and precious" doctrines that originally existed in the Bible, but were subsequently removed, either deliberately or by error (1 Nephi 13:26–40). The following is a partial list of some of these "many plain and precious" doctrines that are found in the Book of Mormon, but are either not found in the Bible, or are not spelled out clearly enough to prevent great debate and disagreement among Christians seeking to know the will of God.

Doctrines relating to the Savior and his mission

Christ offereth himself unto all who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit (2 Nephi 2:7, 3 Nephi 9:20) (see also Psalms 34:18)

Christ shall redeem men from their sins, not in their sins (Alma 11:34–37, Helaman 5:10-11) (see also Matthew 1:21)

Why Christ, being perfect, still needed to be baptized (2 Nephi 31:4–10) (see also Matthew 3:13-15)

The perfect plan of mercy and justice (Alma 42:11-15,22-30, Alma 34:10-16)

In addition to our sins, the Savior took upon him our pains, afflictions and temptations, that he might know how to comfort and strengthen us (Alma 7:11–12)

The infinite nature of the atonement (2 Nephi 9:7, Alma 34:10-12)

The atonement is "infinite and eternal". (Alma 34:14)

We don't need to know how the atonement works for it to work - it starts working "immediately" when we ask God to apply it in our lives. (Alma 34:31)

Without the resurrection, all men would become angels to the devil, subject to the devil, and be miserable forever. (2 Nephi 9:8–10)

All things given of God are a type of Christ and testify of Him (2 Nephi 11:4, Alma 30:44)

How the Law of Moses was the schoolmaster to Israel (Mosiah 13:27-31, Alma 34:13-14)

How Christ is both the Father and the Son (Mosiah 15:1-9)

Who are Christ's seed, as described in Isaiah 53:10? (Mosiah 15:10-14, Mosiah 5:7)

The nature of the resurrection: "this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that they can die no more, their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal..." (Alma 11:45)

The Plan of Redemption was prepared from the foundation of the world, (Alma 12:25), Jesus Christ is central to that plan (Ether 3:14)

Christ's redemption is retroactive in saving the faithful who preceded it (Alma 39:15-19)

The premortal spirit body of Jesus Christ looked just like his mortal body (Ether 3:6-16) (see also Genesis 1:26-27)

What the devil doesn't want us to know

Murmuring quenches the Spirit (1 Nephi 3:5–6)

How Satan will be bound during the millennium (1 Nephi 22:26)

Satan is the father of all lies (2 Nephi 2:18)

Satan's techniques for ensnaring men (2 Nephi 28:19-30)

The evil spirit teaches that a man must not pray (2 Nephi 32:8)

Satan whispers to people that there is no hell nor devil (2 Nephi 28:22)

What motivates Satan - retribution for his misery (2 Nephi 2:18, 2 Nephi 2:27)

What is meant by 'the chains of hell' (Alma 12:9-11)

Laboring diligently in the vineyard protects us from sin and the cunning snares of the devil (Alma 28:14)

Anti-Christ defined (Alma 30:6-60)

The devil hates all men, including those that follow him (Alma 30:60)

"Wickedness never was happiness" (Alma 41:10)

Pride is Satan's most effective tool for our destruction (3 Nephi 6:10-16)

Satan is the father of all contention (3 Nephi 11:29)

The purpose of life

"Adam fell that men might be, and men are, that they might have joy" (2 Nephi 2:25)

The fall of Adam and Eve was part of God's plan – had he not fallen, they would have remained in the garden forever, knowing no joy or misery, doing no good nor evil, having no children. (2 Nephi 2:22–25)

"For it must needs be that there is an opposition in all things" (2 Nephi 2:11)

In mortality, men are given all choices, and "they are free to choose liberty and eternal life through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil." (2 Nephi 2:27, Helaman:14:30-31)

This life is a probationary state, a time to prepare to meet God. (Alma 42:1-10,13, Alma 12:24 (20-24), Alma 34:32)

Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance (Alma 34:32-34, Helaman 13:38)

True wisdom, foolishness defined (2 Nephi 9:28–29,42)

The blessings of obedience to God's commandments (Mosiah 2:41)

The natural man is an enemy to God. What we must do to become saints (Mosiah 3:19)

The answer to the age-old question: 'Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?': The Lord tries the patience and faith of his people (Mosiah 23:21)

"O, remember my son, and learn wisdom in thy youth; yea, learn in they youth to keep the commandments of God." (Alma 37:35)

Because men's hearts are false, unsteady and quickly lifted up in pride, God must chasten them with many afflictions, lest they completely forget Him. (Helaman 12:1-6)

We have a fullness of joy when we labor to bring souls unto Christ (3 Nephi 28:9-10)

Faith, Repentance, Baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost and Enduring to the End

No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven (1 Nephi 10:21,1 Nephi 15:34, Alma 7:21, Alma 40:26, Alma 45:16)

The still, small voice of the Spirit is felt (1 Nephi 17:45)

At the resurrection, those who do not repent shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, uncleanness and nakedness, while the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment and their righteousness, being clothed in purity. (2 Nephi 9:14)

"We are saved by grace, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23)

It isn't enough to have faith once, repent once, and be baptized. We must press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end. (2 Nephi 31:19-20)

Baptism existed before John the Baptist (2 Nephi 31:4–6,8,11–12 Mosiah 18:10,13,15–17)

The fruits of pride (3 Nephi 6:10–16)

The only source of inequality of men is due to sin and transgression (Alma 28:13)

How to retain a remission of your sins (Mosiah 4:11-26)

How to endure to the end (Mosiah 4:29-30)

To gain salvation, men must repent, keep the commandments, be born again, cleanse their garments through the blood of Christ, be humble and strip themselves of all pride and envy, and do the works of righteousness (Alma 5:14-35)

Our sins hold us back and bind us down to destruction (Alma 7:14-16)

How to nourish and grow our faith in Jesus Christ (Alma 32:6-43)

We are to have "faith unto repentance" (Alma 34:15-17)

The gospel is defined (3 Nephi 27:13-21, (also referred to as "the doctrine of Christ") 3 Nephi 11:31-41, 2 Nephi 31:10-21)

We receive no witness until after the trial of our faith (Ether 12:6)

"If men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them." (Ether 12


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

your accusation "you religion still proclaims it’s the only to God, not Jesus."

This is a misunderstanding and caricature of LDS doctrine. There is, however, the Biblical doctrine that the apostles will help judge Israel:

Ye [the apostles] are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:28-30; see also Matt. 19:28)

Since the saints believe in modern apostles, they believe that those modern apostles (including Joseph) will have a role in judgment appointed to them by Jesus.

Those who condemn Joseph on these grounds must also condemn Peter and the rest of the Twelve.


thetruthhurts2009 7 years ago

I have no religion, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ/ He is the only way, not Mormonism. Joseph Smith was a false prophet why put faith in a sinner, or do you think he was perfect? The only he did was lead people away from God made people doubt God’s word.

Since Jesus promised at Matthew 24:35 that His “Word” would “not pass away,” isn’t the Book of Mormon calling Jesus a liar by claiming that Jesus didn’t keep His promise to preserve His precious Gospel truths from being lost? Which should we believe? Jesus or the Book of Mormon?

I think I already have my answer.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

your logic is not making much sense, I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet just like the ones in the Bible. Of course he was a sinner, just as were the rest of the prophets of the bible.(They wern't perfect either.) I have faith in God the Father and in his son Jesus Christ.

This refrence to Matthew 24:35 is weak. God's "words" are his promises. If you were to set all of the bibles in the world on fire, do you believe that his promises would be null and void? So let's put the promise in context;

"Heaven and Earth shall pass away" so everything will be gone or, even if everything could be destroyed, yet his words or promises will remain intact.

Another example of literal translation of scriptures would be thus;

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Luke 21:32 repeats this prophecy.

What are "all these things," and have they come to pass?

Many shall come in Christ's name, deceiving many (Matthew 24:5, Luke 21:8)

Wars and rumours of wars (Matthew 24:6, Luke 21:9-10)

Famines (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:11)

Pestilences (Mathew 24:7, Luke 21:11)

Earthquakes (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:11)

Apostles killed (Matthew 24:9, Luke 21:16)

Many shall be offended (Matthew 24:10)

Many shall be betrayed (Matthew 24:10)

Men will hate one another (Matthew 24:10)

False prophets will deceive many (Matthew 24:11)

Iniquity shall abound (Matthew 24:12)

Love of many shall wax cold (Matthew 24:12)

Gospel shall be preached in all the world (Matthew 24:14)

Distress of nations (Luke 21:25)

Men's hearts will fail them because of fear (Luke 21:11)

Sun shall be darkened (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25)

Moon shall not give her light (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25)

Stars shall fall from heaven (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25)

Sign of the Son of man shall appear (Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:27)

Some of "these things" occurred during Christ's time period. Some have continued since then. Some have escalated into our time. Some have not occurred yet. So we must ask, did Jesus Christ utter a false prophecy? Absolutely not! and I think you would agree with me that Christ never made a false prophecy, based on the interpertation of old world expressions.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

But, according to your rules of interpretation, he did, because "this generation" passed away without "all these things" being fulfilled. I have never read anything from anyone who is a critic of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that attacks Jesus Christ, or the Bible, for making a prophecy of "this generation" which has not yet occurred. Yet it has been many centuries longer from the time of Christ until now, than it has been from the 1830's till today. Without specific wording which would indicate exactly what the word "generation" means, it is dishonest to accuse one (Joseph Smith) of false prophecy, while accepting another (Jesus Christ) when both use it in a general form.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Most of Christianity today claim that there are not supposed to be any more prophets after Christ's day. But this belief is firmly rooted in tradition, not the Bible. The Bible teaches the opposite of this traditional belief. "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."97 God has always had direct dealings with man, through the prophets and through revelation. "Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?"98 The Lord is the one who directs His Church, not man. This is accomplished through prophets. This is the process God uses, and has used since the time of Adam. "As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began."99 Since "God will do nothing" except through "his servants the prophets" and He is, after all, "at hand" and not "afar off," and prophets have been "since the world began," it is only logical, and biblically correct, to expect God to have the same relationship with man today.


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLClq2-nzH8


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

What else you got?


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

lolol You might want to read the history of your religion. Seer and a hat.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Mormonism-


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WexT4N0NQHs


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

If you guys wouldn't call yourself Christians you would have no one bothering with you. You would just considered another cult, but when you try and call yourself Christians when your religion was based on hating Christians. I can't stand for it. Who did more for you Smith or Jesus? A sinner or The Son of God


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

The truth hurts,

The history of my religion is a 36 volume set called the journal of discourses, there is also a seven volume set titled the history of the church, along with other numerous transcriptions, journals, diaries, logs, and accounts. Even as we speak there is a large project in the makings which details the complete history of the prophet Joseph.

It would take years to study, pray over, and discern the teachings of the prophets of the last days, and I seriously doubt that you have taken any time to exert a particle of energy to actually sit down and read the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, or Pearl of Great Price. Because if you did you would not be able to deny the evidence that those sacred scriptures are replete with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

It is impossible for a true and thorough Christian to exert hatred towards anyone, therefore Joseph Smith not only loved those around him, but he loved himself, because he was a true Christian.


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

? So you choose Joseph Smith. Joseph hated Christians, Why would he say ALL Christian churches were an abomination and the mormon religion is the only and NOT Jesus Christ? You must be a higher up temple mormon spin doctor. I know you guys mock Christians is your temples and perform satanic rituals. You guys literally serve Satan.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

The truth hurts,

As usual you are repeating yourself, even after the question has been answered.

There should be no doubt by the hubs that I have written and the unfaltering testimony which I bear concerning Jesus Christ, the son of God, king of kings, Lord of lords, the Lamb of God, The advocate with the father, the only begotten son of God in the flesh, the ultimate mediator and redemer of mankind. I choose God, and I follow all of his prophets both from the past, and those who are called of God, by prophecy and by the laying on of hands, by those who are in authority to do so in the present. Those who have been ordained by the hand of God to preach and prophecy in his name, even the mighty name of Christ, in these the last days.


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

You forgot to add "Of this earth"

"One day I too will be a God"

"God cannot create matter"

"Jesus was a different god in flesh"

"God was once a man"

"My works will get to heaven"

"We must baptize for the dead"

“Adam’s sin was a good thing”

“Jesus Crucifixion wasn’t enough”

“Polygamy is an eternal law”

“God has a body”

“Jesus contended with Lucifer His "spirit brother" for the appointment as Savior “Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18

Highest level of Salvation (i.e., Eternal Life) is only for those who do their part in working for their salvation - 2 Nephi 25:23, Book of Mormon; The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 206; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669

'Physical offspring of Celestial Parents - Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother - in a spirit world - Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 97; Mormon Doctrine, p. 589,

“We are gods in embryo” and “you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods have done before you.…” - Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 21; Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346,

Second chance in a "spirit prison" for those who haven't heard the Mormon "gospel" - Gospel Principles, 1992, p. 292

ALL OF TEACHINGS ARE FALSE. You worship the teachings of Joseph not Christ. When you add to the bible you stop being Christian and start serving a false Jesus. You try to quote mine the bible to fit your false teachings and since the bible clearly contradicts your false teaching to try to discredited to bible use other books in order to justify those false practices.

You choose Joseph, and he will lead you to HELL. you worshipped a false Jesus. Turn away from your relgion it cannot save you.

www.lifeafter.org/comparing_Jesus_Joseph.asp

www.lifeafter.org/JosephSmith.asp


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

Come to Jesus and live! I pray you come to now the real Jesus.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyZ04ZunYIM


thetruthhurts2009 7 years ago

lololol I see you're still avoiding questions.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

The truth hurts,

I see that you have created an alternate personality, and it is resinent with every communication I have made with you. You can change your name but your idiomatic expressions, youtube refrences, and punctuation errors scream the name of thethruthhurts2009. You carelessly toss out accusations with few sources and preconceived notions cut and pasted off of the same Anti-Mormon web sights.

You are the one playing games, and I will ask you again;

How did Joseph know so much about the Arabian Peninsula, including specific names and places that were not known in his day?Related questions:

Was it just blind luck that the rare place name Nahom in the Book of Mormon, identified as the place where Ishmael was buried, turns out to correspond to an ancient burial site right where the Book of Mormon says it is?

How could Joseph Smith so accurately and plausibly describe the nature and location of the place Bountiful in the Arabian Peninsula - when critics for years have been denying the possibility of such a place being anywhere in the region?

How does one account for the recent discovery of a plausible candidate for the River Laman, continuously flowing into the Red Sea as the Book of Mormon indicates, in spite of the repeated claims of critics that no such river exists?

Background:

The book of First Nephi in the Book of Mormon describes a journey through the Arabian Peninsula in much detail, sometimes giving specific directions like "south south-east," and describing specific places such as the Valley of Lemuel with its continually flowing River of Laman, a burial place called Nahom, and a fertile and inhabitable spot called Bountiful due east of Nahom, where Lehi's group lived for a period of time and were able to construct boats and sail to the New World. Incredibly, these details are not only plausible based on modern knowledge, but specific candidates for these locations exist, as I show on my page on Book of Mormon Evidences (including photos). In fact, the candidate for Nahom is confirmed as an ancient burial place in just the right location (Nehhem) and is associated with an ancient tribal name with the same consonants (NHM), based on a recent find of an ancient altar from that tribe dating to around the time of Lehi, with an ideal candidate for Bountiful nearly due east of Nahom on the coast of Oman. And in spite of much mocking by anti-Mormons about the non-existence of rivers, a continually flowing stream has been found in an impressive valley in just the right place to be the valley and river spoken of by Nephi. These places and the NHM name could not possibly have been known to Joseph Smith. They remain unknown to most college graduate in our day, and unknown to almost all anti-Mormons, based on their remarkable silence on these impressive "bulls eyes" in the Book of Mormon. But I'll ask the question again: is there any way that such precise confirmation of First Nephi could have occurred if the unschooled farm boy Joseph Smith were just making up a wild story about a mythical adventure in a remote land? How can you explain away plausible and accurate directions that bypass the empty quarter and would allow an actual ancient journey, a description of a valley and river that anti-Mormons have alleged cannot possibly exist, the existence of an excellent candidate for Bountiful (also was said to not exist anywhere in the Arabian Peninsula), and a direct hit in identifying an ancient burial site and its rare name? Say what you will about other issues, but is there any way that First Nephi could have been written by anyone in North America in 1830, or is it more plausible that the accurate description of an ancient journey in the Middle East was written by someone who actually made the journey? If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?Related questions:

Why would Martin Harris, a prosperous man praised by many non-Mormons for his integrity throughout his life, continue to claim that he had seen the gold plates and an angel, when this only brought harm to him?

Why would David Whitmer, after he became bitter toward Joseph Smith, still go out of his way to refute rumors that he had denied his testimony of the Book of Mormon?

If the Book of Mormon were a fraud, why involve "witnesses" at all - especially so many witnesses who might spill the beans and ruin everything?

Background:

The Three Witnesses (Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer) saw an angel and the plates, and experienced direct and real divine testimony that the plates were of God. They never denied the reality of this experience to their dying day, even though they all became unhappy with Joseph Smith at various point in their lives and would have had every reason to expose him if the Book of Mormon had been a fraud. Martin Harris mortgaged and lost his home in support of the Book of Mormon, and suffered much because of his commitment to it. They had little to gain and did lose much for their testimony, yet stayed true to it all their lives. These were not knaves lacking integrity, but were men of good character. Martin Harris, for example, was well known as a man of great honesty. Even the first anti-Mormon book, E. D. Howe's Mormonism Unvailed, stated that Martin Harris was "considered an honest, industrious citizen by his neighbors" (p. 13). When J.A. Hadley's newspaper, The Palmyra Freeman, published what he said was the first anti-Mormon newspaper article in 1829, Harris was described as "an honest and industrious farmer of this town" [R.L. Anderson, "Martin Harris: The Honorable New York Farmer," Improvement Era, Vol. 72, No. 2 (Feb. 1969), pp. 18-21]. Many others outside the Church confirm that Harris was an honorable man. And he, like all other witnesses, insisted throughout his life that he had truly seen the plates and knew the Book of Mormon was authentic.

Eight other official witnesses saw the plates and likewise bore witness to the Book of Mormon and never denied it. Others such as Emma Smith knew of the physical reality of the plates and never denied their witness of the divinity of the Book of Mormon. Numerous statements from those outside the Church support the integrity and character of the witnesses. To date, no anti-Mormon critic has seriously confronted the overwhelming documentation in support of the reliability of the witnesses, nor has anyone been able to explain away or discredit their testimony. The only plausible explanation is that these people actually saw the gold plates and were convinced of its divine origins. Their testimony exceeds every legal standard for reliable testimony and cannot simply be ignored. Examples of the serious scholarship on this issue, replete with documentation, include Milton V. Backman, Jr., Eyewitness Accounts of the Restoration (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1983), and Richard L. Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981).

A summary of the issues and some quotes from non-Mormons about the integrity of the Three Witnesses is on my page, "Circumstantial Evidence and the Witnesses of the Golden Plates: Can They Be Ignored Any Longer?"

For further impressive details, please see the following pages:

Book of Mormon Witnesses by Richard L. Anderson.

Mike Ash's page on "The Three Witnesses" and his rebuttals of anti-Mormon charges concerning Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris.

Comments on the Book of Mormon Witnesses: A Response to Jerald and Sandra Tanner by Matt Roper.

So how can the critics explain this? They'll raise some red herrings about witnesses leaving the Church, laugh about the family relationships some of them shared, and even distort the abundantly documented record to infer that some denied their testimony - but the historical record is truly clear that the witnesses stayed true to what they had personally witnessed: the reality, authenticity, and divinity of the Book of Mormon. How could Joseph have known about ancient cem


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

Are yoy dizzy with all that spin?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gaFFMKQYRc


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Not a single rebuttal, nothing, that is all you have to say?

And you accuse me of not answering questions? LOL!


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

I accused you?


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

That whole load of yours was refuted in one video

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gaFFMKQYRc

Why didn't you view it?


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

Why is it that no other writings have been found in the language of “Reformed Egyptian”, the supposed language of the Book of Mormon plates? Is there evidence that such a language really existed?


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to heaven? (See The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol 3, pages 263, 264.)


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

Why do Mormons not study Hebrew and Greek so that they can intelligently discuss the accuracy of the translation of the Bible?

If Mormonism came as a revelation from God, why are the Mormon Temple Oaths almost identical to the oaths of the Masonic Lodge?

If the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, why have the Mormons changed it? (There have been over 3,000 changes in the Book of Mormon, exclusive of punctuation changes)

I supplied and refuted everything in my original hub about Morons since you didn't read it so you asked questions that I've already answred it's a silly trick, but I'm not surprised.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0tt7hz2kOs

Finally, You really need to do your research for you religion. It will lead you away from Joseph Smith and to Jesus Christ.


thetruthhurts2009 7 years ago

Deuteronomy 13:1-3

“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

The bible and all it's prophets taught of One God, Joseph led people after many gods on different planets and says you can become a god. Conclusion Joseph was NOT a prophet of God. Plain and Simple.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Moon men;

The source for this claim is not Joseph Smith himself; the first mention comes in 1881 in Oliver B. Huntington's journal, who claimed that he had the information from Philo Dibble. So, we have a late, third-hand account of something Joseph is supposed to have said.[1] Hyrum Smith[2] and Brigham Young[3] both expressed their view that the moon was inhabited.

A patriarchal blessing given to Huntington also indicated that "thou shalt have power with God even to translate thyself to Heaven, & preach to the inhabitants of the moon or planets, if it shall be expedient."[4]

Huntington later wrote an article about the concept for a Church magazine:

As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years.

He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.[5]

So, it would seem that the idea of an inhabited moon or other celestial body was not foreign to at least some early LDS members. It is not clear whether the idea originated with Joseph Smith.

However, it should be remembered that this concept was considered 'scientific fact' by many at the time. William Herschel, the discoverer of the planet Uranus, died in 1822. Herschel argued "[w]ho can say that it is not extremely probable, nay beyond doubt, that there must be inhabitants on the Moon of some kind or another?" Furthermore, "he thought it possible that there was a region below the Sun's fiery surface where men might live, and he regarded the existence of life on the Moon as 'an absolute certainty.'"

Other scientists announced that they had discovered "a lunar city with a collection of gigantic ramparts extending 23 miles in either direction."

Modern prophets and general authorities will sometimes cite newspaper articles or books to illustrate the points which they wish to make. In doing so, they are not endorsing such articles or books as being prophetically correct in all particulars. Rather, they are using the science and information of their day to enhance their preaching of the gospel.

LDS doctrine was not provincial, since it provided for "worlds without number" (Mos. 1:33) created by Christ. These worlds held those who would require the gospel, since by Christ "the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." (D&C 76:24)

Information given to the 19th century Saints by the authorities of the day were consistent with these doctrines, and so they believed them, and occasionally mentioned them in a religious context. As always, prophets and believers are products of their time. Biblical authors, for example, clearly accepted a geocentric (earth centered) cosmos, with a flat earth and heavens supported by four pillars. Like the authors of the Bible, modern prophets are generally beholden to their era's scientific concepts, except where corrections in those concepts are needed to permit the gospel to be understood and applied. This does not mean, however, that prophets of any era do not receive revelation about matters of eternal significance.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Moroni makes it clear that "reformed Egyptian" is the name which the Nephites gave to a script originally based upon Egyptian characters, but modified over the course of a thousand years (see Morm. 9:32). It is no surprise that Egyptians or Jews have no script called "reformed Egyptian," as this was a Nephite term.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

If studying Hebrew and Greek is a requirement for intelligent discussion, then why don't most Christians study them? The fact is that some Christians do study them, and some Mormons study them; it is a personal choice, not a requirement.

It is telling that the critics attack members of the Church for not studying ancient languages, yet within these questions there are several which show that they have misread the original texts upon which they base their criticisms


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Concerning the temple,

Thetemple oaths and masonic oaths are not the same. The LDS temple patrons make commitments to live by the gospel of Jesus Christ. This includes commitments to obey the law of chastity, consecration of time and talents and other religious tenants.

Masonry's oaths center around the promotion of brotherhood of the fraternity, going to the aid of fellow Masons and their widows and orphans in times of distress, and in holding inviolate the means of identifying a fellow Mason. So while the temple teaches man's relationship with God and Christ the Masonic Lodge teaches of man's relationship to his fellow men.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Members of the Church do not believe in a "one and only true text" of any scripture.

The vast majority of changes made to the Book of Mormon are issues of grammar, spelling, and typographical errors.

The few other changes in wording were not made by "Mormons," but by Joseph Smith, the translator and prophet.

No change affects the meaning of the Book of Mormon text; Mormons can quite happily use the first edition of the Book of Mormon. In fact, the changes made in the 1981 edition brought the published text closer to the original manuscripts then available.

Christians should be careful with such attacks. If they don’t want to have a double standard, they'd have to realize that there are more differences in Biblical manuscripts of the New Testament than there are words in the New Testament! Yet, Latter-day Saints and other Christians still believe the Bible.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Anti-Mormon literature tends to recycle common themes. One popular approach over the years is for critics to ask a series of "questions" under the guise of sincerity, but with the ultimate aim of casting doubt upon faith or tripping up members of the Church.

Such tactics are not new; Jesus repeatedly faced questioners from among critics during His earthly ministry.

Do you intend to ask me the rest of Contender Ministries 58 questions "All Mormons should ask themselves"? Or do you have any of your own?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

As for your refrence to deuteronomy 13

Joseph never told anyone to go after other Gods. If you are basing your standards for the true nature of God on post biblial clauses and theories, I however base them on the actual teachings of the scriptures.

Joel 2:27And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel and that I am the Lord your God, and none else; and my people shall never be ashamed.

And it shall come to pass that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream derams, and your young men shallsee visions.


Osagie 7 years ago

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199).

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171).

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing….Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools; they know neither God nor the things of God" (Journal of Discourses 13:225).

LDS Apostle Orson Pratt - "…all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people" (The Seer, pg. 255).

Joseph Smith - When asked, "Will all be damned but Mormon?" he replied, "Yes, and a great portion of them unless they repent and work righteousness" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 119).

I could go on. Mormonism is anti-Christian from the roots.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Quick thought- I noticed that whenever you debate a Christian and get ask you a question you can't answer, get into a tight corner or write a long spill that you think you should is sufficient, but isn’t you delete their responses/comments. Why? If you're right and they’re wrong shouldn’t you use that opening to prove your point? When you have to delete their comment it shows more than you'll ever know. I believe Mormonism is a lie. I probably write about it in the near future. I’ll probably mention your actions as an example.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Well whenever I am in a debate with a fellow Christian who asks the same questions over and over, despite the fact that I have already given a plausable response over and over, I consider the question to be antagonistic. The person then escalates the argument to the point of obnoxiousness. later when the question is repeated once again, I feel that the subject is a dead horse and conclude that the person isn't actually reading my responses at all. I have erased no new questions whatsoever. I have, however, erased insults, mocking video refrences, (such as cheezey little Anti-Mormon cartoons concocted to belittle and degrade my religion.)and temple refrences which is much too sacred of a place, and I feel is something which no Latter Day Saint should feel pressured into discussing with people who's intent is only to mock and condescend.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Osagi,

you are quoting from uncannonized sources. Anti-Mormons are not interested, for the most part, in addressing the real beliefs held by Mormons or the real doctrines embraced by the Church as contained in our official sources of doctrine. They choose instead to focus on carefully selected excerpts from obscure writings to provide the sole foundation for their accusations. Not only is this approach dishonest, it is outright deceitful. But such is their methodology and modus operandi. Obscure, repudiated writings from the fringe of an individual's personal speculations simply sound more damning. The fact that the Church publicly denounced them is simply a bothersome detail they correctly assume most people won't take the time to find out.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Pam,

I almost forgot, when you are writing your anti-mormon hub and you intend to militate against the character of an entire church through a few isolated examples try not to include any doctrine that the church actually believes in, and dont forget to polarize on the small useless details which really don't matter, and find a way to make them matter.

If you want to pump out a good one you might want to do some reaserch, and don't forget to get inside of the mind of the masters of "Revealing the truth" start by geting a copy of Mein Kamph, after all, Hitler did convince an entire country that the Jews were evil.

With much diligence and carefull study, you too can be just like Hitler, if that is what you realy want.

Have a nice day.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Well I did my research and came to the conclusion. Mormonism is not Christian. You may be my brother in Adam, but you are not my brother in Christ. Read my hub if I got anything wrong please correct me.

If you wouldn't double talk and evade questions maybe you would get somewhere. I really don't want to argue with you anymore I think after watching you debate, I don't think I could anywhere, besides circles and lies. I rather not.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

As I have said before The cartoon is an excerpt from the 1982 anti-Mormon film The God Makers. The cartoon takes elements of certain LDS beliefs and distorts them in an attempt to make them appear ridiculous. In some cases, the cartoon takes statements made by early church leaders and attempts to portray them as official church doctrine. For every point made, the cartoon attempts to convey its points using crude, offensive and mocking terms in order to shock the viewer.

Specific points made in the cartoon include the following claims:

1.Mormons believe that God the Father was born on a distant planet to an “unidentified god and one of his goddess wives.” This claim is designed to shock the viewer through the mention of plural wives in association with the Father.

2.”Goddess wives” are again mentioned with a reference to “endless celestial sex” producing “billions of spirit children.” This is again intended to shock the viewer by associating crude terminology with an alleged Mormon belief regarding the Father and the manner in which Jesus Christ was conceived.

3.Jesus Christ is always referred to as the “Mormon Jesus,” in order to drive home the idea that Mormons worship a different Jesus than the rest of Christianity.

4.Those who were neutral in the war in heaven were born with black skin. The cartoon illustrates this change in appearance. Church leaders have stated explicitly that there were no “neutrals” in the war in heaven – if we received a body, we made the correct choice.[citation needed]

5.Those who were valiant in the war in heaven were born in the Mormon families with light skin.

6.The film again tries to crudely promote the idea that God the Father came from “Starbase Kolob” to visit the Virgin Mary in order to provide Jesus with a physical body.

7.Joseph Smith is depicted as sitting in judgment between the Father and the “Mormon Jesus," contrary to Latter-day Saint belief that Jesus Christ will be our final judge. The portrayal in the cartoon appears to be based upon statements made by early LDS leaders that have been removed from their context in order to falsely make it appear that a belief in Joseph Smith rather than Jesus Christ is the key to salvation.[1]

8.The film states that Joseph Smith claimed that he did more for us than any other man, including Jesus Christ, and that Joseph Smith shed his blood for us in order for us to become gods. The implication is that Mormons worship Joseph Smith as their savior rather than Jesus Christ.

It is all very deceptive and very wrong, the mere fact that you opened your hub with it shows that you are not interested in searching for the truth. You claim that you are a christian but you have showed the quite the opposite for an example.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Where did the cartoon lie?


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

1. You do.

2. That's what you teach.

3. You do.

4. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done. (2 Nephi 5:21-23)

5. Isn't that racist? Yep!

6. That what you teach.

7. Joseph Said himself these words "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." ( History of the Church", Vol. 6, pp. 408-409. 1884).

8. See quote from your "prophet"

I know you don't want people to know the truth about your religion, but I can't stand by while your relgion leads people to hell. It's seem whenever a Christian tells the truth about the Mormons, you guys say it un-Christian. How would you know? What does the bible say.

Jude 1:3

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Ephesians 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Before you start a long spill from flds.org. Save it. You'll probably delete this, but I hope you come to know Jesus.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

Pam

1. I already gave you nine points where the cartoon lied.

2. You want to point fingers and make accusations but don't want to see a response. Isn't that like judging a book by it's cover? I call this bible thumping with your eyes shut and fingers positioned firmly in your ears.

3. you are citing sources which are extreemly unreliable and carefully put together by so called "Christian orginisations" who dedicate most of their time to producing Anti-Mormon materials, and hardly any at all trying to understand the true gosple of Christ.

4. you are using antimormon literature in order to defend your accusations, and don't try to tell me that you have actually studied my religion and read through the entire 26 volume, journal of discourses, History of the Church, history of Joseph Smith, Docterine and Covenants, Book of Mormon, or Pearl of Great Price to come up with your own genuine conclusions.

5. You are feeding me a myriad of shotgun accusations to satisfy your preconceived notions against a church that on a daily basis provides goods and services in humanitarian efforts, around the world, along with spreading the more important message of Jesus Christ.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

I refuted all you points and then some, you just don’t like that I won't tolerant your spin AT ALL. You’re upset that the simple cartoon tell the No spin truth about the LDS church. You guys don’t tell people these things until after they have already been brainwashed by your religion. If a mechanic is doing bad work and you want get truth do you go the mechanic get his word and call it a day? NO! You go to the customers and the mechanic and weigh who has more to gain. I went to ex Mormons I viewed debates with current Mormons vs Christians and I tested it all with the bible. Your church has more to gain by keeping you in the dark. Again you think your good works will get to you to heaven another point that is anti Christian.

Ephesians 2 8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Romans 3:20“...because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.”

Galatians 2:16 “"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Your outward works are the reaction of the inward change. You saying you must work in order to be saved, Is saying Jesus was not enough and you(a sinner) can do more for yourself. Is that Christian? No!

www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/are-we-saved-grace-or-works


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

pam,

Did you refute my points on some other sight?

I don't see any refutation other than your opinion about the Mormon Church, which says nothing about the accuracy of the points made in the video.

I do however see alot of points on the video that come from uncannonized, and credulous sources. Alot of what came out of the cartoon is derived from a publication called the seer which was disbanded by the church very early on for its false teachings which were not supported by the church from the begining.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

I know you can't see, that's my point.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

As for the faith without works, My church agrees with the biblical thoughts on faith and works (not to be confused with the dead works of the law of Moses) but to be baptized and to receive the holy Ghost, to partake of the sacrament, to bless and to serve, to perform miricles by the manifestation of the spirit of God, to give to the poor, visit the fatherless, and tend to the sick, and to devote you time and efforts to the building up of the kingdom of God on Earth, and to follow all of the teachings which Jesus Christ set for an example to his people.

How can you have one without the other?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

You want me to refute your points without using outside sources, and yet you wrote an entire AntiMormon hub using none of your own thoughts. I find it ironic that all of those hubs are always started with the same old disclaimer, "This isn't an AntiMormon hub" its like begining a racist joke with "Don't get me wrong, my best friend is black."

And then they tell the joke, or in your case, write the hub which applies to an entire group of people, stereotypes and all manners of falsisms.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Label me if you must must, but truth stands. Mormonism is a lie.

www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6476067EB04FE9CB


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

youv'e gt one thing right, the truth stands, and God's work will roll forth until the end of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgqgEAypAg&feature...


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author


nowisthetime34 profile image

nowisthetime34 7 years ago from USA

To your first vid: I actually use/refute it in my hub.

To your second vid: I couldn't get pass the title "Praise to the Man" Therein lies the rub.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

It is from a hymnal

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.

Blessed to open the last dispensation,

Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;

Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;

Honored and blest be his ever great name!

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,

Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,

Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;

Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.

Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Beautiful words simple and true.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Thanks nowisthetime, but I can handle this myself. I refute the first video in my hub as well.

The Praise to the Man speaks for itself.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

yes Praise to the man who communed with Jehova, he brought the priesthood back again, he restored the gosple to its fulness, and translated holy script, he was a true prophet of God, he lived like a prophet and died like one. He spread the message of Jesus Christ throughout the world, and though the flood gates of Hell opened up and raged against him, yet he fufilled his mission of which he was anointed by the Lord Jesus Christ the savior and King of kings.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

You praise a deceiver! It's been proven over and over. From The First “Vision" to The Kinderhook Plates to Smith’s Masonic ties.

Why do you continue to believe his lies?


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

The fact that there is no archeological evidence of any kind to back up any of the book of Mormon.

Read my hub view all the videos and then do your own research. I'm not lying to you what do I have to gain by telling you the truth. Nothing.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

He was a true prophet, from the first vision to the revealing of the Book of Mormon, to the prophecy of the Civil war, the prophecy of the night of the falling stars, the prophecy of the exodus of the Saints, the building of the Lords house to be established in the last days, and even his own name which by a fourteen year old boy is was said his name will be known for good and evil throughout the Earth until the last day. Many other prophecies he made which were fufilled and many more will yet be fufilled.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Colossians 1:9

9For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding.

Goodbye


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 7 years ago from washington Author

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father, That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

Have a nice day.


lindajot profile image

lindajot 5 years ago from Willamette Valley - Oregon

This is all so sad.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

I agree. This stuff gets way too out of hand. All the bickering.


lindajot profile image

lindajot 5 years ago from Willamette Valley - Oregon

Yeah - I made a mistake getting talking in a forum on religion. You want to share beliefs and reasons for beliefs and the attacks are wild, and often irrational. I'm not Mormon, but I do try to learn from others, if it is done in a calm, constructive way. You're a good writer!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

I completely agree. It's always my goal to be either informative and inteligent, or silly. But never rude or judgmental. Thanks for the compliments. I'll have to take a gander at your hubs as well when I get the chance.


christ4ever profile image

christ4ever 4 years ago from a life in sin saved by the Lord's grace - we are blessed with the ministry in Florida & Georgia

In regard to "Questions Anti-Mormons can't answer":

"13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 NKJ)

Most of the people I have met of the Mormon faith are exemplary in character and basically good wholesome genuine folks. For the most part they are excellent role models for people to pattern themselves by regarding moral character which all people (including Christians) should observe. I love everyone (icluding those of the Mormon faith) as by the example that Jesus Christ put forth. However, the problem I have is where Mormonism contradicts the doctrines as established in the Holy Bible. Wonderful and good people (myself included) can also be inadvertantly or unknowingly led astray. "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce (TO DECEIVE), if it were possible, EVEN THE ELECT." (Mark 13:22 KJV)

I myself had briefly believed in and practiced the Mormon faith many years back (in my quest for God and His truth), but what I have found regardless of mankind's teachings (both Mormonism & Christianity included), is to simply follow the WORD of GOD as found in the Holy Bible (as the one and only source) and let the Holy Spirit guide me accordingly.

I pray peace unto you (and us all) and on the blessed "Day of the Lord", we shall just have to let Jesus Christ himself sort it all out... In His peace always (Rev.Ted)


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 4 years ago from washington Author

Ted thanks for commenting. Remember it says that false prophets will arise to deceive, it doesn't say all prophets will be false prophets. No contradictions whatsoever.

The test of a true prophet that I believe one should be asking them self according to the scriptures is thus; Does this person testify of Christ? Does he preach repentance? are his teachings consistent with the scriptures? Does he seek to please God? Does he lead as a willing ensample and not for filthy lucre? Does he admit to being a man of like passions and liable to sin? Does he receive revelations? Does he have witnesses? is he chosen by God? And is he ordained by prophecy?

All these things are an undoubted yes in my opinion.

As the apostle Matthew said "By their fruits ye shall know them" and as you have said before there are many Latter Day Saints who live exemplary lives, they love Jesus Christ and recognize him as their one and only savior, they cherish fidelity, honesty, and righteousness. And they are some of the most charitable and faith filled people I know.

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