Is Barack Hussein Obama the Antichrist of the End Time ?

There are Four Important Characteristics of the Antichrist

The only place in the Holy Bible where the word"Antichrist" appears is in the epistles of John the Apostle.

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 Jn. 2:18-19)

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an Antichrist." (2 Jn. 7)

Here are the four important characteristics of the Antichrist that we can learn from the above verses.

A. There are "many antichrists" and not just one as some modern-day eschatologists believe and teach.

B. The"antichrists" have already existed in the First Century.

C. The "antichrists" have left the Christian Church. They were never saved.

D. The "antichrist" is a great "deceiver".

"Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn. 2:22-23)

Historical Antichrists through the Ages

Roman Emperor Caesar Flavius Constantine (c. 285-337) He was an avid sun-worshiper, and when he converted to Christianity and joined the Catholic Church he brought in paganism at the same time. This is illustrated by the first law he enacted. "First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine in March, 321 A.D. Constantine convened the Nicene Council in 325 A.D. in which the theology of the Trinity was formulated.

Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821 AD) Napoleon was the conqueror of Europe. By 1802 Napoleon was the most popular dictator France had ever known, and he was given the position of first consul for life with the right to name his successor. The establishment of the Empire on May 18, 1804 thus changed little except the name of the government. The Constitution of the Year VIII was altered only to provide for an imperial government; its spirit was not changed. The Emperor of the French created a new nobility, set up a court, and changed the titles of government officials; but the average Frenchman noticed little difference.

In 1804, Napoleon was made emperor, a title that was traditionally conferred by the Pope. But during the ceremony, Napoleon took the crown from the pope's hands and crowned himself emperor and his wife, Josephine, empress. This sent the cold and clear message that he, unlike Holy Roman Emperors of the past, would not share his power with the pope.

Adolf Hitler (April 20 1889 - April 30 1945) Hitler was raised by Roman Catholic parents, but after he left home, he never attended Mass or received the sacraments. He had anti-Christian sentiments and these are some of them:

  1. Christianity is a religion that defends the weak and the low
  2. It is purely Jewish and oriental in origin
  3. It forces people to bend their backs to the sound of church bells and crawl to the cross of a foreign god
  4. It began 2000 years ago among sick, exhausted, and despairing men who had lost their belief in life
  5. The Christian tenets of forgiveness of sin, resurrection, and salvation are plain nonsense
  6. The Christian of mercy is a dangerous, un-German idea
  7. Christian love is a silly concept because love paralyses men
  8. The Christian idea of equality protects the racially inferior, the ill, the weak, and the crippled

Bible Prophecy of a Very Powerful and Deceptive Antichrist in the End Time

Bible Prophecy of a Wicked Politician

"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon." (Rev. 13:11)

In prophetic Scriptures the word "beast" is used figuratively of a corrupted and ungodly man (Ecc. 3:18; 2 Pet. 2:12; Jude 10). Hence, the apostle Paul wrote: "I have fought with beasts at Ephesus" (1 Cor. 15:32).

The apostle John's prophecy describes a powerful man who will emerge in the world during the End Time. This man has " two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon." The lamb is a symbol of a weak Christian (Jn. 21:15). In biblical prophecy the horns represent the power of wicked kingdoms (Dan. 7:7-8; Rev. 13:1).

The "dragon" point to the "Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev. 12:9). The devil "does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." (Jn. 8:44)

The Bible prophecy that states "he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon" can refer to a wicked politician who claims to be a Christian but tells lies in order to gain political power to rule a nation.

The revelation that John received evokes the image of a false Christian who has risen in power. He has a charming and engaging personality. He is an erudite and eloquent orator but also a great deceiver of the American public.

Barack Obama is not a true Christian and he definitely preaches a false and perverted gospel

Obama contends belief in Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation

AP - 3/27/2008 8:00:00 AM

GREENSBORO, N.C. - Senator Barack Obama has told an audience that although he believes Christ died for his sins, those who reject that teaching can also be children of God.

During a campaign stop yesterday in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is. (listen to audio clip)

The Illinois Democrat added that his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven." (listen to audio clip)

Barack Obama is preaching a false gospel about the Lord Jesus Christ. If Jews and Muslims who do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and do not accept Him as their Lord and Savior are also called "Children of God" then Jesus died on the Cross in vain. The Lord Jesus Christ warned: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (Jn. 8:24) The Holy Bible states: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." (Jn. 1:12) "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:27) "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments." (1 Jn. 5:2).

Jesus Christ said it very clearly and plainly: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (Jn. 14:6) No one can become the children of God without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Antichrist is a Powerful Leader who has authority over the Three Aspects of the World Government

The apostle John had warned about the coming of the Antichrist in his letters to the Christians of his time (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). In the Book of Revelation John describes the Antichrist as a powerful World Leader who has authority over the three aspects of a global government.

1. Politics "And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." (Rev. 13:12)

2. Religion "He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." (Rev. 13:15)

3. Economics "And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Rev. 13:16)

President Elect Barack Obama is accepted as a World Political Leader

On the night of November 4, 2008 Senator Barack Obama was declared the winner of the Presidential Election by a 2:1 landslide victory over Senator John McCain. Obama had 364 electoral votes to McCain's 162.

Britain's Economist conducted a Global Electoral College from its 52,000 readers from around the world. More than 44,000 voted for Obama while only about 8,000 for McCain - a ratio of 5:1 victory for Obama which is a much greater landslide than that of the U.S. Elections. Obama won the backing of an overwhelming share of voters in 56 countries - including the likes of Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Indonesia and South Korea - claiming the support of 90% (or more) of those who voted. Barack Obama will not only be the President of the United States, but he will also be the President of the World if such an election were to take place.

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12498538

Leaders of various nations in the world congratulated Barack Obama on his historic win in the U.S. Presidential Elections

President-elect Obama accepted congratulations from nine presidents and prime ministers Thursday, returning calls from world leaders who reached out after his presidential victory. Obama spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said the president-elect spoke to Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso, Mexican President Felipe Calderon, South Korean President Lee Myung-bak and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

Even Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad congratulated Barack Obama on his election win - the first time an Iranian leader has offered such wishes to a U.S. president-elect since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

The United States of America has been and still is the most powerful nation on earth. The President of the United States will be the most powerful man on earth.

Whilst this must surely be celebration and jubilation by Obama supporters all over the world, there is cause for concern by Christian eschatologists who are keeping a watchful eye on who would be the Antichrist of our Time. Such a person would be Satan's Most Powerful Representative on Earth. Is President Elect Barack Obama the One that the apostle John had prophesied in the Book of Revelation? We shall further study the other aspects of the Antichrist.

OBAMA WORSHIP

Farrakhan heralds Obama as he Messiah

How Barack Obama can control the World Economy

 

The Richest Men in the World are Supporters of Barack Obama

The world's richest man Warren Buffett and Bill Gates the second richest man, have voted for Barack Obama. According to Forbes magazine, Gates - worth an estimated $55.5 billion - contributed $2,300 to the Democrat's campaign in the primaries.

Like the founder of software giant Microsoft, Buffett - the richest man in the world, worth some $58 billion and who is also an advisor to the Democratic candidate - donated $4,600 to Obama's campaign, the maximum amount allowed by law.

Obama's recent speech in Cairo, Egypt was aimed at pandering to the Arab world which has most of the oil-rich OPEC nations that is now controlling the price of oil that affects the wold economy.

The Number of the Name of the Antichrist is 666

"Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is 666." (Rev. 13:18)

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA - 666

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Comments 575 comments

t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I am a profound believer in amillennialism, aka "many antichrists." In fact, the worst anti-christ is our own selves. I highly doubt Obama will be anything short of a black president. This tuff over whether he's Hitler or not needs to stop. He's a dude with a flag lapel and a title.

He's not the antichrist, and if there is one around at the moment, I bet he's not in America.


LouiseKnittel profile image

LouiseKnittel 8 years ago from Ohio

I believe that he is a anti-Christ but not "The anti-Christ"!

Very interesting way of looking at it!


Glen Walker 8 years ago

This is a bit ridiculous, about Obama being The antichrist. Read my book free http://www.prophecymadeeasy.com He may end up doing some things against Christ in his life. You have and I have - The Bible says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." See Romans 3:23 and 6:23. But that does not make him THE ANTICHRIST.

Glen


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear readers of this Hub,

Thank you for your comments!

Is there such a person as the Antichrist in the End Time?  Some have named Osama bin Laden in the past.  He is now in hiding.  Others have named Saddam Hussein.  He is dead and buried. 

By the way, Obama rhymes with "Osama" and "Hussein" is the last name of the "Baghdad Butcher". They are both Muslims and types of the Antichrist. Many have named Barack Hussein Obama as the present day Antichrist!  He was born a Muslim to a Muslim father and was raised as a Muslim by his step-father in Indonesia. He lied when he denied that he had ever been a Muslim. Please read this Hub on why Barack Obama have to live a lie for the rest of his life.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/livealie

Just type his name and the word Antichrist on the Internet and you will find a long list of articles.

There are not many people in the world today that has the description and credentials of the Antichrist.  Barack Hussein Obama has them.

Just read the Hub again.  If you do not think Obama is the Antichrist, then can you name someone else?  It will be interesting to read your view.

If you do not think we are living in the End Time and there is no such person as the Antichrist in our present time then I am afraid you must be taking the Preterist View, that everything have already been fulfilled in the First Century. I take the Futuristic View, that many of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation refers to events in the End Time before the Return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Arkwriter 


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

If you're premillennial, then the anti-christ is of no importance to you.

If you're ammillennial, the anti-christ is seldom a single person, and if it is it's much more dangerous than a person like Obama.

If you're postmillennial, Nero was your man.

Let's face it, prophecy is hardly of importance in this age. The scapegoat theology of premillennialism means that it isn't even applicable to you at all, so this is a moot point.

I am, once again, ammillennial, and frankly I don't even remotely see the chance of Mr. Obama being anything close to the anti-christ.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I am pre-Trib and am thankful I wont be here for the horrile things that are to come. I don't have a strong feeling that he is the anti-christ, but I do feel that he very well could be helping bring the anti-christ to power. His nationality and other things have made a lot of people feel that he is anti-christ. I may be wrong. I am just stating what I feel. I also believe in 1 anti-christ as the great deciever. The Bible tells several traits this man will have and Obama has many. One is that people will flock to him without question. As we have witnessed, many Americans and many who are not do this. It's like they want to drink his cool-aid and never question his past, his actions or his words. He has pulled the wool over so many people's eyes who feel they are well-infomred and well-educated. Their eyes will be opened soon to what his motivations really are. And they will see the mistake they made. I pray God's mercy on our nation because we need it! Good hub.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

The major problem I have, ASU, with that area of theology is that similar traits were found in characters if history, like Julius Caesar, Adolph Hitler, and FDR. I mean...people are as religiously following Obama as every other nation inatuated with its leader at the time, so it's not uncommon to see something like this. Top it off with the reality that Obama is not Arian (believe it or not, majority of the pre-tribbers out there believe he's from the actual country of "Rome" and is a fair skinned blonde). Let's face it, y'all. We're not seeing an antichrist here. He's just another leader we'll deify then be dissappointed in after 4 years. I see no alterior motivation in his "regime" and frankly, when it's all over, America will no doubt still be around. And I'm not expecting the rapture to take us away either ;)


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Personally, I'm post-trib, and I'm pretty certain that Obama is not "the" anti-Christ, but I'm open to being wrong. I do have a question, though ... Is the antichrist (regardless of if it's "THE" Antichirst or one of the several "antichrists") actually more powerful than the actual Christ?

http://hubpages.com/politics/So-What-if-OBama-Real...

If it's not Obama it will be someone else and I ask, is there really a reason to fear? Even in a post-trib theology? Should we fear a man? Even one as powerful as anti-christ?


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

This is all very interesting. This man  the 'Beast' is different then the 'false prophet' or Religious leader who will sit on a throne in Jerusalem claiming  that he is god.. He may recognize the False prophetas his co-collaborater of the end time the as New World Order choice as a military leader. Could Barak Obama be the Beast there is a chance but again he may have a lot to add to a further final destruction of the USA. At this time we  still seem to be the most powerful nation on earth.

However, others may still fulfilled this role. The are several others who may be contenders for this calling of the devil. Take William Jefferson Clinton as another preferrred candidate. It has long been rumored that he will some day become head of the UN. This could happen 4 years from now. His wife Hillary Clinton has not given up on being the first woman President. This will be interesting to watch if it should unfold this way. This would make Bill and Hillary the rulers of the world.

Then there is the slight possibility of a fake resurrection of Adolf Hitler. It is well known that he did not die in a bunker in Berlin as World War 2 came to its miserable end. Revelation 17:9-11, speaks of someone who was but still is that received a wound but will come back in the last hour to lead a Ten  Nation Empire of kings of the earth. This is the final resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire. There is still this possiblity. Could Adolf Hitler still be alive. Well, according to his former bodyguard who died in 1999. It is possible he may still be the one that could be the "Beast" he would be about 117-118 years of age now. Not likely, but then the use of Eugenics may be the way he has survived all these years. The German Nazies where into this on a regular basis. See here - Fourth Reich in the USA, @ www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_bush19.htm                

There are other theories of who the Anti Christ is. We will need to keep watching and praying that we can escape this horroble time just ahead of us. As for the USA remaining the world's greatest Super Power with a false Messiah and Beast is very unlikely. This nation is one of the remaing nations of the Lost tribes of Israel. We received our blessings from our God who kept his promises to our ancient grandparents Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel). This time of Great Tribulation given to us by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:21 which is predicted in Jeremiah 30:7-8, the Time of Jacob's trouble or the loss of present Day Israelites, who are descendants of the Lost tribes of Israel (This nation is Mannasseh and a haven for many of the other 12 Tribes) blessings mentioned in Leviticus 26 & Dueteronomy 28.

This is a time when Christians will be put to the final test of faith for most, Revelation 3:14-19;17:6. Though some of the Saints will be taken to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years most will be martyred. See Revelations 3:7-13;7:3-10?;12:14.

Jesus warns us to keep watch in Matthew 24:42 And 25:13 and to continue to preach the Gospel to all the world. We will need to stay awake now for this time of great hardship for all.

God be with you and give a good witness for Jesus, Matthew 28:18 -20.

P.S.

Though Bill Gates along with others billionaires like Warren Buffet are wealthy, they are not as rich as the Bauer family also known as the Rothschild who by far outdo everyone else with 1/2 the World's wealth 400 Trillion. These are the rich bankers and merchants of the earth who forment wars for profit and the death of many for control of everything. They are the ones along with Rosicrician ,Lucerfurians, Illuminatist, Masons, Gnostics that are responsible for one of Satan's last big rampages here on earth, Revelation 18:11-15.

The Lionswhelp


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear fellow Hubbers,

Does anyone have a clue as to the reason why the likes of Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, George Soros, Donald Trump and all the other rich people support Barack Obama instead of John McCain and the Republican Party.  What do they gain by it? 

The only reason I can think of is that Obama can be bought to serve the rich guys and make more money for them, whereas John McCain cannot be bought.  McCain is a rare breed of patriot and hero. He has so much character and so full of integrity that even his Vietcong captors could not bribe him to accept an early release from their prison. McCain did not want the early release to be used as a propaganda against the U.S. armed forces fighting in Vietnam.  I really admire John McCain's faith and character.

Arkwriter


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 8 years ago from America

arkwriter...have you been smoking dope...or are you drunk??? i declare how you do go on...it causes one to get headache.


christinekv profile image

christinekv 8 years ago from Washington

Interesting hub and discussion.

I stated on one of your pre election hubs Arkwriter I believe Obama is AN anti-Christ. I recently received a teaching from an Apostle which resounds true in my spirit....he stated the spirit of anti-Christ is UPON Obama and it will be up to Obama as to whether or not he receives this spirit to indwell him.

I hope pre trib people are right. I see good points made by both pretribbers and posttribbers but personally, I'm a "pantribber"....God is still on the throne and "it will all pan out."

My thoughts on those who argue that throughout history people have believed their present time was the "end time" and that others before were believed to be the anti - Christ, if I'm not mistaken, the "birth pains" since the 90's have very much intensified. There is also the subject of blessing Israel and cursing Israel (to include the Jews). Jews who have been living in other parts of the world are returning to Israel. While in Israel during the spring of 07, our guide pointed out something subtlely symbolic of our (US's) relationship with Israel. Simply, the word JerUSAlem. I recently heard another teaching which cited since the 90's, every natural disaster we've experienced (approximately 70) has occurred within 24 hours of our government taking a position which did not support Israel.

These are exciting times we are living in. May we indeed make the most of each day were given.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

Has it ocurred to anyone that the referral to 'antichrist' in revelation is a spirit, considering the Bible says "the antichrist is even among us" (written by Paul 2000 years ago....hmmmm....interesting).

I'd rather go with what Paul says personally.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

t.Keeley, please pardon the correction, I intend no disrespect, but it was John, not Paul that said that ... 1 John 4:3, but you are absolutely correct in your intention, antichrist is a spirit.

I believe Nero and Hilter were two obvious hosts of the spirit of antichrist. It is my interpretation that at some point someone (who will be worse than Nero and Hitler) will so give themselves over to the spirit of antichrist that they will be "The" antichrist.

Since the spirit of antichrist denies the sonship of Jesus ("He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son". - 1 John 2:22) and one of the tenents of Islam is that "God has no son", it appears to me that the spirit of antichrist is part of Islamic teaching. (This does NOT justify "hatred of Muslims", I am saying that the ideas of Islam and the ideas of Christianity are incompatible, and I choose to believe Jesus.)


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

Ha! My bad. I was chatting ith a buddy and we both were sure it was Paul at some point, probably Thessalonians (it's possible but I didn't read the entire book to find it yet). John makes sense too.

What I'm advocating is that there isn't a "the" antichrist. I just don't believe in it as a literal interp. I believe we are in the kingdom of God, unhindered by satan's powers and expanding til the world is eveloped in the message of Christ, which will be followed by His return. With the onslaught of interent activity and global economy, that is being fulfilled imminently. With that said, there are ALWAYS corrupt leaders looking to dominate us, whether they are inhabited by a spirit of evil or not. It's simply human nature, you know, power corrupts.


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 8 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

So basically, if Barack Obama is the anti-Christ he has already managed to infiltrate and overpower not only Americans but citizens and leaders of both Christian and non-Christian nations around the globe. And all this without even doing anything yet besides get elected?

If we go by the most recent example of an anti-Christ, Adolph Hitler, he managed to bamboozle his own countrymen and get the Italians and the Japanese to join his side. However, the rest of the free world rose up against him and ultimately defeated him.

Why would we assume that Obama (or any other supposed anti-Christ) would not be seen through and fought instead of widely hailed? Doesn't jibe with human nature.

Arkwriter, I do commend you on an interesting theory and and interesting hub. But you must be joking about John McCain's character. Don't believe the Fox News hype. Reports of his heroism are vastly overrated. While reports of his personal character (including his womanizing) are disturbingly underreported.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

MM- I agree with you about the fact that certain aspects of man can be under reported. I totally feel upset with people who claim themselves as true christians then don't live upto the marital oaths taken by them (In sickness and death do us apart). I can't understand if a husband gets injured the women tend to take care of them but when a woman endures an accident then they are left to fend themselves. Morever how can another woman fall in love with a married man beats me(Cindy falling in love with McCain). I have seen the story of sporting legend like Lance Armstrong when he was suffering from cancer his wife took care of him but when he recovered he left her. I guess I am getting too emotional and stop now.


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Ark rider I really do appreciate you guys looking after us while we mere mortals go about our lives.

But trust me on this one before I go to bed tonight I'm going to get down on my knees.

To see if there is a anti-christ hiding under the bed?

I'm just wondering if you make any money out of this preaching?


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

tkeely: 'What I'm advocating is that there isn't a "the" antichrist. I just don't believe in it as a literal interp.'

I've wondered about that myself. I've concluded that it doesn't matter, since little antichrist or big Antichrist ... he'll ultimately lose.

I kind of like Neheimiah's attitude, "Sorry Sanballat, I don't have time to worry about you, I'm busy doing what I'm supposed to be doing."


Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly 8 years ago from St. Louis

Ag: If he's not, then he's doing it wrong.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

{{Even Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad congratulated Barack Obama on his election win}}

That is what is technically known as a Good Thing. Obama has the potential to be a peacemaker. Such people are supposed to be blessed, are they not? But no, we'd all prefer to hate Iran - so much more American that way ;)


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Paraglider we can't love our fellow man, who would we sell our guns to if there were no wars? Gee spend our money on stopping poverty and famine, wheres the profit in that!


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

agvulpes - thanks for setting me back on the right track! ;)


justmesuzanne profile image

justmesuzanne 8 years ago from Texas

Good heavens! What would Jesus do? Certainly not defame Barack Obama or anyone else, I daresay. President Obama is going to need all the support and Christian love we can give him to try to pull us out of the God-awful mess created by GW Bush and his wealthier by the minute cronies.

This kind of Christian Hate Fest is not only in poor taste, it is un-Christian. I suggest you remove this offensive piece of writing and get with the program. We will all do well to put our best foot forward and pull together for the good of our nation, the world, and ourselves.

Peace be with you.

Suzanne Bennett


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

The spirit of the Anti- Christ is no doubt the Spirit of Satan the Devil the god of this world. John 12:30-31;8:44; Revelation 6:2;9:11.

It is very true about John McCain that a lot of lies have been made about him as far as his character is concerned, to make him seem like a good guy. But like many in Congress he is part of the New World Order. Would he have pulled and upset and turned on the ones pulling his string. Maybe, he has a deep seated resentment of those that have used him. Maybe this why he was not elected. He is not trusted by the Bilderbergers. The election was probably rigged to start with.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

Thank you for your comments,  It is good to know so many people are interested in the Antichrist. 

Some of your comments are funny.  Agvulpes wrote: "But trust me on this one before I go to bed tonight I'm going to get down on my knees.  To see if there is a anti-christ hiding under the bed?  I'm just wondering if you make any money out of this preaching?" 

Well, let me ask you, "Are you making any money writing your comments?"  It's not easy to make money on the hubs.  If you are trying to make a living writing hubs forget it!  Try something else! I have been writing more than 60 hubs in 8 months, and I have not made enough money to receive a check yet. Honestly!

Justmesuzanne wrote: "Good heavens! What would Jesus do? Certainly not defame Barack Obama or anyone else, I daresay." 

Jesus said:  "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6). The Bible says: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." (John 1:12)  But Barack Obama said you do not have to believe in Jesus to be called the children of God. 

During a campaign stop in Greensboro, North Carolina, President Elect Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is.

If Jews and Muslims can become children of God without believing in Jesus then He cannot be the Savior of the World.  I am not defaming Obama.  I am exposing him as a false teacher that is misleading people to hell.

President Elect Obama added that his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven."   This is a blatant lie.  No one can go to heaven without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.  "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

The Antichrist is the great deceiver (2 Jn. 7).  Barack Obama is a great deceiver and many Americans and people all over the world have been deceived by him.  Wake up!

Justmesuzanne continued:

"President Obama is going to need all the support and Christian love we can give him to try to pull us out of the God-awful mess created by GW Bush and his wealthier by the minute cronies."

Let us be honest. For your information, President G. W. Bush has nothing to do with this econonomic mess. This awful mess was created by the Democrats who wanted to let people own houses when they cannot afford them. Remember ACORN pushed for loans without collaterals and variable mortgage rates through FANNYMAC and FREDIEMAC. Barack Obama paid ACORN to help him register voters that are fraudulent. Both directors of FANNYMAC and FREDIEMAC became financial advisers in Obama's Campaign. Obama has the most campaign funds in Election history, and has not disclosed where he got the money.

If you think we are in a mess right now. Wait till the next year and after that. Like what we say here in Texas - "You ain't seen nuttin yet!"

May God bless and guide you.

Arkwriter

 


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

"The Antichrist is the great deceiver (2 Jn. 7).  Barack Obama is a great deceiver and many Americans and people all over the world have been deceived by him. "

An observation from scripture, Arkwriter: Jesus said "false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, **if possible**, even the elect. " (Mark 13:22)

He also said, "My sheep know my voice" John 10:4,27

The key is not to panic, but to simply listen for our Shepherd.  Those who know his voice will not be decieved.

I don't think Obama is Hitler or Nero. And honestly, I've seen more impressive decievers who would come closer to fooling me.  I don't like his stated polcies or his politics for a lot of reasons.  I just don't think he's got what it takes to be "A"ntichrist.   I think "A"ntichrist will be much more clever and much more subtle.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

i have started my little hub about "What is Wrong with Chuches Today. I am not doing this to make money but to give freely what I have learned in the past 43 years as a Sabbath keeping person. Jesus gave his life for us freely and bought us our freedom to pass on what we have learned to others. This is a great Hub with some good comments. Iron Sharpens Iron when we can discuss things that have to do with salvation. So It is good to see how others think and feel from what they have learned.


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Arkwriter, I am not an American so you have every right to tell me to mind my own business and I will not be upset if you do. However if I may make one observation if this quote below is yours?

"Let us be honest. For your information, President G. W. Bush has nothing to do with this econonomic mess. This awful mess was created by the Democrats who wanted to let people own houses when they cannot afford them. Remember ACORN pushed for loans without collaterals and variable mortgage rates through FANNYMAC and FREDIEMAC. Barack Obama paid ACORN to help him register voters that are fraudulent. Both directors of FANNYMAC and FREDIEMAC became financial advisers in Obama's Campaign. Obama has the most campaign funds in Election history, and has not disclosed where he got the money."

I agree with your fundimental that loans should never have been made, but did Mr Bush not have 8 years in government in which to correct this wrong doing?


pgrundy 8 years ago

Why are people so drawn to Revelations? What about all the other books of the Bible? What about the New Testament and all that stuff about loving your neighbor as yourself?

I know you really believe this stuff, and that you think Obama is really scary and evil and all that, but I hope over time you can calm down. The content of this essay is just really disturbed and disturbing. What bothers me more than anything is that people believe in this end of the world nonsense. Revelations is the most obtuse, difficult book in the whole Bible and why on earth you would try to apply it to contemporary American politics is beyond me. What a waste of energy.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

All books in the Bible apply to everything at all times. That includes Revelations. And as someone who is saved, I look forward to the end of the world (Rapture) as I will be going Home finally to see my Lord and Savior face to face. It's not a dark or fearful thing, it's a wonderful thing!! I am looking forward to it as all people who are saved are. We are excited about it. If it doesn't happen soon, then I do dread the bad times we may go through, but it will all be worth it in the end.


pgrundy 8 years ago

Wow. Well, good luck with that.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 8 years ago from Panama City, FL

To know what is an anti-Christ, it helps to know what the qulaities of the Christ are.

Some of them would be love, joy, inner peace, forgiveness, caring, sharing, etc.

In other words, when we move away from those qualities, we support the anti-Christ. Each of us does that when we aren't experiencing inner loving, joyfulness, inner peace, forgiving, caring, sharing, etc.

That would describe me yesterday.

The good news is that we can quickly shift from exhibiting anti-Christ qualities to Christ qualities. Instantaneously, in fact.

I don't care the least bit for Obama as our next president. Not. One. Bit. He has the same opportunity to be either the anti-Christ or the Christ as do the rest of us. Of whom much is given, much is expected.

I will oppose Obama's policies in every way I can. And I hope to let go of the anti-Christ in me as much as I can and embrace the Christ qualities instead.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Kelley, I do admire you attempts for curing cancer, but you know what I'd hate to be the last person on the end of the queue?


Leta S 8 years ago

Just some FACTS, guys:

Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ and a Christian. This is verifiable.

My boyfriend's father is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and a biblical scholar. One of the things they preach/believe/etc. (which I want to point out I do not say I believe in) is that the book of Revelations was never written as a prophecy of the future or 'end times.' It is a reference to what was going on AT the time it was written.

I believe everyone has a right to their own beliefs, absolutely, in the free society we celebrate, but when they border on attack and demonization--and this is demonization, all-- (some would say libel but for good sense reasons nobody on the other side would prosecute), it gets a little scary.

How can anyone label what to almost all eyes is a good family man, scholar--all around by any test or measurement--a good person--an anti christ?


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Lita, I think people see things in him that are characteristics of the anti-christ. I have already had my say on this hub earlier. But, he does have qualities of the anti-christ as talked about in the Bible. Those of us who take the Bible as God's Instruction Book to us take every book seriously, including Revelations. And we see that as what is to come. Or perhaps, what might be beginning to happen now. God gave us things to look for.


pgrundy 8 years ago

But you don't follow the restrictions on food or any of the other restrictions in 'God's Little Instruction Book.' Do you cut your hair? Then you've violated God's Little Instruction Book--Read Leviticus. How can you openly violate some of God's laws, then tag Obama as the Antichrist when his name isn't even in there and he attends a Christian Church and has for years? Your ideas are not coherent--they contradict themselves. The only reason people take these Revelation rantings seriously is because by openly believing these hysterical things, you scare reasonable people--that is, reasonable people are afraid of YOU, not the Antichrist. I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just the truth.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Are you referring to one person or Christians who believe in Revelations as a whole, since there are many of us who believe it?


Leta S 8 years ago

I believe and hope that he will prove you wrong... I think at the core of things--deep down at the personal level--that everyone really wants the same things--peace, decency, prosperity and care for our fellow man. Yes? Instead of bashing (on any side) I believe we should concentrate on this.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I don't get the feeling that the writer of this hub did it to bash anyone. I think he is genuinely looking for our opinions on the subject. I don't think asking the questions is bashing at all. There are many many Americans who have the same question. He just happened to ask it on here. I have gotten many many emails this year showing reasons that different people see signs that Obama may be the anti-christ or that he has connections to him. Personally, I don't think he is the anti-christ. But, I could be wrong. Arkwriter is respectful and I admire the research he does on his hubs.


godaddywebmaster profile image

godaddywebmaster 8 years ago from Sacramento, California

Here we go again. Everytime we have a new president elect, this nonsense comes out. Go and re-read your bible and stop trying to put your own twist on things. Read the truth, say the truth and stop telling lies to everyone. We are at the end as a people when we "make it happen".


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

More scary Christianist nonsense.


AEvans profile image

AEvans 8 years ago from SomeWhere Out There

I believe none of us should fear if we are all walking righteously. God said, Nobody will know, what time, what day, what hour so the thing is when he does come then all of us should be prepared, that is if we believe. As for Obama I do not believe he is the anti-christ and I believe that all are entitled to their own religions , since I am Christian I believe in Christ, but that does not mean that someone else has to believe in the same thing. I cannot judge others as I remember the story of the soldiers who mocked jesus Matt: 27:27-31 and finally Rev 22:7 yes he is coming so we should only be prepared and be careful not to point fingers as Satan can distract us from doing the things we should be doing and that is trying to save souls You are a wonderful writer and I am glad that it was you has placed this out to us, so that we can express and form our own opinions. :)


Leta S 8 years ago

Yah. Actually, he looks and reminds me of my boyfriend's father--a man I don't happen to share some beliefs with--but who I respect as a person with strong beliefs and a right to them.

I will say that it is hard for us who supported Obama, and who clearly believe differently than what you believe, to understand how and why you so fervently think/feel the way you do. And it scares us.

I actually do get the reference to the anti-christ on a purely word based level-- Of a diplomatic background, etc., of many nations (I know this is not exact, but I cannot remember it precisely), but again, I hope and do believe Obama is a good man and will prove you wrong.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

I feel like I have just wondered into the Twilight Zone. 'AntiChrist', he seems to me just like a normal man, and like any other election there will always be people who voted for the other Candidate and who were disappointed when he wasn't the winner. I don't think this makes him the AntiChrist though.

The points made in this hub were interesting to read, but not without them raising questions themselves, such as, if a Yak Farmer in the depths of Outer Mongolia,  who has never even heard of Christ, never mind believing in him, dies, then does this mean he can't get to Heaven? Seems a bit unfair don't you think, as after all, he never even had the opportunity to make that choice of whether or not to believe for himself? The same applies to these long lost tribes that have still not had contact with the 'White Man'. Are they all damned because they don't even know who Christ is?

Also, according to the Bible Jesus said 'My Father's House has many mansions', so who is to say that the meaning of this wasn't to say that each God a religion worshipped was simply another name for Jesus God, and each of those Gods was one of the 'mansions' spoken about. If this were true then it would be perfectly fair to say a Muslim or Jew who had lived a moral life was just as much a child of God as a Christian.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I don't understand why anyone would find this scary or fearful if they are saved and have Christ in their hearts. If you are saved, there's absolutely nothing on this earth to fear because Jesus Christ has your back! :) This is exciting people! It's something to look forward to! It's something that is great, not something scary! I don't understand the mixup about that.


AEvans profile image

AEvans 8 years ago from SomeWhere Out There

allshookup, I don't either :)


Leta S 8 years ago

I don't worry about God on a personal level at all. I do believe that whatever conception he is, he does have our backs, to put it in your way of speaking. We are, for one, scared for Obama's life, as some Christianists take a lot of this stuff towards hate, frankly. The assumption--even suggestion that he is an Anti Christ does tend toward libel and does suggest some malicious belief. What if one to were call somebody's father, ie, a possible anti christ?


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 8 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hi Misty,

The qualities of the consciousness of Christ are universal if those qualities are love, joy inner peace, forgiveness, etc. So the yak farmer isnot in any danger of not having the opportunity to know. The Christ refers to qualities, not to a man or just one man.

IOW, Jesus's last name was not Christ. it was just a term used to describe him just as you might describe someone as sweet, nice, caring etc. So the Christ can apply to anyone at any time.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


AEvans profile image

AEvans 8 years ago from SomeWhere Out There

Lita, I personally think and it is my own opinion we are all going to be o.k. , it doesn't matter who believes in Christ who believes in Allah or who doesn't believe at all, you are also correct as we are all in this together. I have friends from all religions and all lifestyles so it is hard for me as a person to be one-sided as I always ask myself what would jesus do? He certainly would not be judgemental and he would tell me to work on myself before lashing out at others. How can we lead if we are not right ourselves? His article is well written and he was only looking for our opinions and boy did he get them.:)


Leta S 8 years ago

AEvans:

I believe you are what we have in mind when we think of Christian in its original intent, :)


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Another thing I am confused by is this 'Rapture' belief. I have looked into this and it seems to be a very recent idea and only based on one interpretation of the Bible. I found a great site that explains this in a lot more detail, and the link to it is: http://www.s8int.com/norapture.html

To quote a few sections of the site in case not everyone chooses to follow links, here goes:

Since 1995, Tyndale House has sold an astonishing 50 million copies of books in the "Left Behind" series by the *Rev. Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.

The novels purport to describe in fictional-but-literal terms the Apocalypse, reign of the Antichrist, and return of Jesus to rule Earth. The final volume in the 12-volume series, "Glorious Appearing," has just been released.

At the heart of the novels is LaHaye's occult interpretation of the exact "script" of the coming End Times, in which faithful Christians will be "raptured" - taken up to heaven - before the rule of the Antichrist, good and evil will wage a seven-year battle, and finally, Christ will return.

Many believers have adopted these fictional books as a stand-in for Biblical truth. But what most 'Left Behind' readers - as well as those disturbed by the implications of the books probably don't know is that LaHaye's grand vision teeters not on sound theology, but an obscure, contortionist, 19th-Century interpretation of the book of revelation'

"The trouble is, the interpretation of the Bible on which these books are based is also fiction" Rossing writes, "Today's end-times writings draw on a method for looking at prophecy that was invented less than 200 years ago and, by now, is a dominant American view".

But as Rossing writes, "The Rapture is a racket."

The "system" was born of a young Scottish girl's vision in 1830, later fleshed out by a late-19th-century British preacher, John Nelson Darby. Darby conjured up the idea of Rapture based on scriptural texts that, read by most, indicate no such thing, and he devised the concept of "dispensations" - distinct epochs in God's time, with different rules, to account for biblical inconsistencies and, shall we say, ease of prophecy.

There is loads more on the site, but far too much to copy and paste it all here. 

 


sandra rinck 8 years ago

First, I agree with ASU suprise, suprise but about Arkwriters not writing to be disrespectful and all that stuff, but also with Pgrundy, that I take Revelations seriously because "y'all" are starting to scare me. I am sure you guys mean well, but in my honest and as humbe an opinion as I can make with hope that I do get anyone mad about it...

I also do not believe the AntiChrist is one particular person, but a collection of many people who have turned from the teachings of Jesus Christ, as in all the good things about loving your brother and the ten commandments and stuff like that.

I know that many christians just don't want to hear it, but I really do believe that it will be those christians who are using "rhetoric" to get people riled and scared and futher making these things happen.

I know that it is easy to scare people, shute, I am scared too but I know that the fear isn't coming from Jesus. The Jesus I see as my brother likes to put it is..."the soul of God". For either of us, it doesn't neccisarily mean that he is the only son of God or just not the son of God, but that he had a good soul in him, which is how he described God, as Good.

So when people are talking about muslims also being antichrist, I think it is not right either because they were given different laws, and these laws are also recorded in the bible, as the Jews were instructed to obey the 10 commandments.

And so many people will be decieved and there are many antichrist out there and the pains will get worse as the time goes on and people do have a choice to be Christ or AntiChrist but there really seems to be something missing.

As much as I hate to say it, I really do believe that most Christians have become so excited about being saved they they can't see straigh anymore. I mean in the persuite to spread the good news about Jesus Christ and the desperation that seems to ensue with the preaching that, you don't realize you are hurting people along the way and turning them to other places because what you are showing people is the old saying; that the devil desguises himself as light.

So the more people read their bibles and see what is going on...but worse is that it is coming from the one place I never though it would come from, and it isn't the Muslims nor the Jews nor the Atheist, nor the Pagans etc..it's coming from many of the Christians.

I am sorry to say it but that is what me and many other people are seeing, and to be more truthful, it is not like we don't believe in Jesus, but more like the Jesus from the old days and the Jesus of today's age are two different people.

BTW, I was watching CNN when Trumph endorsed McCain...When it comes to Obama being the AntiChrist, unlikely and I pray not because of his children and all the people that are looking to him for help, but I did have a dream that Obama was Osama and that is why Osama can't be found.

Anyways, it was probably a reflection of the things I am hearing in the world, so then you should know that these things are getting into peoples heads, so once again...I believe the Christians are the AntiChrist (not all of course) and the spirit of the antichrist, on the basis of using the name Jesus Christ as savior and then not acting like him in anyway other than saying love but showing hate.

I am sorry Arkwriter, I wouldn't be afraid of Obama he is just like you and me. :)


Leta S 8 years ago

Good job, Sandra!


SirDent 8 years ago

As I read the comments here the only thought that came to me was what went through the minds of all those who refused to hear what Noah preached for one hundred years.

To go further, what about the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrha? Abraham prayed and asked if there were 10 righteous in those cities would God destroy them. God said He wouldn't destroy them for 10 sake.

Many have mocked the Prophets of God through the ages but I assure you of this one thing. God will not be mocked.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

misty, the concept of the rapture is based on a modern interprtation of Luke 17, Matthew 24 and 1 Theselonians 4:17. The term "Rapture" is from the latin translation of 1 Thss 4:17 which is translated in English "caught up".

I enjoyed the first couple of fiction books by LaHaye and Jenkins (I wouldn't call it a racket any more than Star Wars is a racket, just popular) but it didn't track with my study of the relevant scripture and they started to get boring.

My biggest problem with the Pre-Trib point of view that these books present is that we (Current Christians) get to "escape" a tribulation, but some other random new Christians won't be so fortunate. The LaHaye Jenkins books did drive me to study scripture more closely and I became "Post Trib" ... but I couldn't find anything in scripture to back that up that didn't require what I considered unreasonable mental acrobatics.

Anyway, I commend your research, well done.


ajcor profile image

ajcor 8 years ago from NSW. Australia

Hi arkwriter

Just a few points that don't gel with me -

1. re your header that states "President Elect Barack Obama is accepted as a World Political Leader" this hasn't come about just because he is president-elect of your country - it is because the US is a leading country of our free world. And what happened here is that other world leaders congratulated Barack Obama as a matter of courtesy and diplomacy. And not because the world plans to say that he is leader of the entire free world! I bet when Mr Rudd was elected here he fielded quite a few phone calls also. The receipt of these phone calls does not constitute Mr Obama in the role of the anti-christ. The same applies to that statement The President of the United States will be the most powerful man on earth so what exactly is different here with the only thing that is changing being the face of the man/party in the job. The President of the United States being one of the most powerful men on earth reamins the same. No change - does not make Mr Obama the Anti-Christ.

2. It is obvious that "you just can't know what you don't know " re. the christian religion - and it is quite right to suggest as Misty did that everyone if indeed they have lived their lives as good people, and tried to do the right thing, have an equal chance of dying and finding themselves with God. This observation is quite christian in its' sentiment and the fact that your President Elect recoqnises the need to give everyone equal hope does not brand him as the Anti-Christ - quite the reverse in fact. 3. re the Mr Obama receipt of electoral financial gifts issue - "Though Bill Gates along with others billionaires like Warren Buffet are wealthy, they are not as rich as the Bauer family also known as the Rothschild who by far outdo everyone else with 1/2 the World's wealth 400 Trillion." This acceptance of these small financial gifts (and that is what these are when compared to the personal fortunes of the giftors) does not make Mr Obama the Anti-Christ. Raises the question is there a level of gifting that giftors must observe? And some Food for thought - if the Jewish race had not been barred from owning property, housing and other material items; quite possibly the opportunity to amass huge amounts of money simply would not have been open to them.

4. re Mr Obama "his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven." Where is your christian charity ? Of course the man wants to know his mother who he believes to have been a good woman - is in Heaven. This does not make him the Anti-Christ - this makes him human. cheers.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Thanks BDazzler, your response was very interesting and I enjoyed reading it and take your points on board.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Story at random but it has a place here I think, if not, sorry to take up your time.

So a little while back I was feeling pretty bad about life in general etc. So I decided that I would go to church to get a dose of God and all that, well, the people were really nice, as they always are...until the day the Pastor and his wife came to visit me at home.

He asked what I needed to get into Heaven or to be saved and started spouting the 10 commandments. Now at that time I had not read the bible so what he said next suckered me into his world of "what???".

He told me all I needed was faith and then he gave me some anagram of what faith meant, and none of which consisted with the commandments or loving our brothers.

I don't believe there will be a rapture when God or Jesus will just come out of the clouds and we will all just disapear, but I do believe that we will be "caught up" in the tribulation, as in the spiritual wreckoning which is now with the mass confusion going on in the world.

ie: I got caught up in the message of Christ during these days. Just a thought though.


Leta S 8 years ago

Everyone is welcome to all and any beliefs, just please no stirring up of hate...

Sandra, I believe you did a great job logically working within your belief system to your previous conclusion concerning the anti christ. I couldn't say it, as I cannot say I'm very literal in my beliefs.


Misha profile image

Misha 8 years ago from DC Area

What I like about this hub (excluding comments of course, most of which are excellent) is the picture of Obama. He looks as he is almost exhausted holding his laugh, and will start laughing the very next second. Rolling on the floor, etc. :)


Leta S 8 years ago

He looks like one P.O.ed black man, plus a little bit like he's about to laugh, yeah! :) I think this was taken when he was saying something like, "there is no, blah blah america, no blah blah, america-- There is just the United STATES of America," or when he said McCAin couldn't even track down Bin Ladin in "the cave he lives in," LOL


SirDent 8 years ago

I think he's mad cause Arkwriter exposed him for who he is.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Maybe, but I reckon if I looked through all my photos I could find one where I looked like the AntiChrist too, yet it doesn't mean I am!!


Leta S 8 years ago

And maybe only God knows. :)

I've been good--prefer we all were to get along--but I couldn't resist that...


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Nothing wrong with grabbing a picture to make your point. I gotta admit that the photo of him with the ciggarette on my hub was deliberately provacative. It looked a little disreputable, (even though my three best friends in the world all smoke). The purpose was to draw people into the article (must work, too, because it gets more traffic than any of my other hubs.) I've since heard he quit smoking, hope so.


Leta S 8 years ago

He did quit smoking. Before he ran for president. His wife required him to do so before running...


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 8 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

Aha! Proof positive that Barack Obama is not the anti-Christ. If he was, he would not have given up a vice associated with self-destruction through FIRE:-)


rockinjoe profile image

rockinjoe 8 years ago from Standing right behind you!

Is it possible that you, arkwriter could be the Anti Christ by using a mass communicative device like the internet in an attempt to steer Americans (and the rest of the world) down a false path by tempting them to question the leadership qualities of their President Elect, using false facts?

One can verify facts concerning Obama's past. What do we know about you, arkwriter? Absolutely nothing. You're pretty scary. I hope people who read this (should you decide to allow it to be published) keep this in mind before accepting your writing as fact,


eswar profile image

eswar 8 years ago from India

"Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also".--- according the verse you quoted, apart from christians all other communities are not going to accept this, in that case then you must be having a trillions of anti christ on earth and will it do any harm adding one extra to that account.

"But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is."--- what's wrong in this, even the bible says for all to lead a moralistic life, i think you might have wrongly taken it as moral means following only christ.

"Britain's Economist conducted a Global Electoral College from its 52,000 readers from around the world. More than 44,000 voted for Obama while only about 8,000 for McCain - a ratio of 5:1 victory for Obama which is a much greater landslide than that of the U.S. Elections. Obama won the backing of an overwhelming share of voters in 56 countries" - including the likes of Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Indonesia and South Korea - claiming the support of 90% (or more) of those who voted. Barack Obama will not only be the President of the United States, but he will also be the President of the World if such an election were to take place." --- You must be proud of that situation, Mr.writer, to see a leader of United states being accepted almost as a real world leader.

"Even Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad congratulated Barack Obama on his election win - the first time an Iranian leader has offered such wishes to a U.S. president-elect since the 1979 Islamic Revolution."---This is what the world community is expecting in future "PEACE" , it is so great that even before he could take up office he could rise so many friendly arms extended, around the world.

Now itself the whole world looks so green , pleasant and peaceful.as Mighty Mom wrote you must be joking about John McCain's character, or are you pinching McCain's from the back."If you think we are in a mess right now", sorry correct it, it's not we it's YOU are in a mess, and there is no need to wait to see the nuttin yet, It is already there.And what the world needs is Peace, and it is not bothered who brought it.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Would every black person who believes Obama is the antichrist please step forward? What, not one? There's a surprise! I wonder what that implies?


Shahid Bukhari profile image

Shahid Bukhari 8 years ago from My Awareness in Being.

Do you have an open mind ? If so, read on.

The Islamic Concepts of the End of Time, Antichrist, the Second Coming, and the Day of Judgement, are quite similar to what the Bibles states; for the Bible... differences aside... is also the narrated Word of God.

Some 'Jokers' however, insist on making fun of Religious Concepts, though I see no reason whatsoever, why anyone should joke about sobering matters... as they presently do here, in this Hub, by way of inducting politicians and their likes, and equating them with Biblical Characters, viz. Anti Christ.

The Concept of the End of Time, in Islam, is Qua-ya-mah... The Ceasing, of Everything. But this Ceasing, is not limited to Time, it also encompasses Matter, Space and Energy... Everything.

Thus, the Islamic Definitive of Quayamah, within modern Science's Terminologies, is, that "At the onset of Quayamah, Electrons will stop dead in their orbital tracks around the Protons, so will Molecular Structures lose their cohesion, and thus, the Earth will also stop orbiting the Sun, and the Sun will stop spinning on its Axis, and thus, the Milkyway and other Galactic Spirals will also Cease to Spin... Everything we know as Forms, will Disintegrate.

In terms of Physics, this means that there will be no Electromagnetic Force any- where in the Universe to hold it, and its Components, together... So the Universe will simply Dissipate from the State of Existent Physical Reality of Forms, viz. Celestial, Human, Microbial etc. Back unto the State of Nothingness.

The 'Ceasing' will indeed be an event of cataclysmic proportions; that is why it is referred to as the Apocalypse, or Quayamah. However, certain Events will precede the Apocalypse, notably the appearance of Anti-Christ. Muslims call your Anti- Christ phenomenon, the 'DAJJAL."

But how to recognise the DAJJAL... is the most important Question here.

So we Muslims seek the Answer in What our Prophet, Muhammad, Peace and Blessings of God be on him, in Describing the Dajjal, hath said, " Let me tell you what other Prophets preceding me were not Told; DAJJAL will be Blind in one eye."

So I share this Knowledge with all the other Believers of the Books. Maybe it helps stop the proliferation of Nonsense about the Bible and Quran.

Syed Hasan Shahid Bukhari.

November 17th, 2008


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Livelonger- When you say LDS's teachings do you mean Latter day saints (Mormons)? I believe some of the christians don't even consider them part of the mainstream christianity.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Yes. The Mormons believe that the more righteous you become, the lighter-complected you get.

You can google and see for yourself:

2 Nephi 5:21

3 Nephi 2: 14-16


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

{{ DAJJAL will be Blind in one eye}} But Moshe Dayan has come and gone and we're all still here! I remember some people insisting he was the antichrist, because he was a one-eyed leader. Oh, and Jewish too, let's not forget that.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

I can put all of this to rest for you people.  Barak Obama is not currently hosting the spirit of the anti-christ because, well, I am.  So, everyone take a deep breath.  It's not him.

If that's not enough, I can give you more evidence why he's not the anti-christ.  Arkwriter shows us the way with this astonishing piece of evidence, and I quote Arkwriter here:

"By the way, Obama rhymes with "Osama" and "Hussein" is the last name of the "Baghdad Butcher." They are both Muslims and types of the Antichrist. Many have named Barack Hussein Obama as the present day Antichrist!"

Ok, that is a compelling heap of logic there, I have to admit. This kind of reasoning is almost impossible to ignore.  It's like when they found who shot Lincoln in the booth at the Ford's Theater, they knew exactly who it was because, obviously, John Wilkes Booth had the same last name as the place Lincoln was shot.  Talk about a PERFECT rhyme, Booth rhymes with "booth" and that was a slam dunk case.

Frankly, I am totally impressed with this hub and your deductive reasoning, Arkwriter, but I have to say you missed.  But, I can tell you why.  You see, your rhyming strategy is sound, for sure, but you have the names in the wrong order.  You started with Obama and then went to Hussein.  Which you can't do. 

Fortunately, I studied deductive reasoning and advanced CSI rhyme techniques, and I can help you out.  Doing his name in proper order is the key.  So, the actual way to ferret out who Obama is, is to do that. It breaks down like this:

The closest rhyme to "Barak" is "Bierock" which are tasty German pastries filled with meat and cabbage (yum).  And, more importantly, the precise rhyme for Obama (last name is crucial, just think of the "booth" thing above), the precise rhyme for Obama is "yo mama." Bierock Yo Mama.

So, clearly Barak Obama is not the anti-christ but instead, he is your mom, posing as a black man from Germany who likes meat filled pastries and cabbage, although likely gets gas from the latter, which is why he's always smiling.

So, there you have it.  I hope that helps.  As one fan of sleuth-rhymes to another, I got your back man.  Otherwise, nice work on this hub.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

OH MAN that was funny Shadesbreath!

I'm pretty sure the The AntiChrist is someone surreptitiously "hiding" with the name Hussein Anntykreist. 


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Shadesbreath I thank the Lord that you sorted that out for me I was getting really confused there for a while.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Livelonger- Iam sure not many people subscribe to that view that the lighter the skin complexion the more righteous that person is. A person who believes in such preposterous notion needs to first evaluate himself/herself to consider somebody else to be God's lesser children based on purely their complexion.

Shades (or oops Antichrist)- You never cease to amaze me with your sense of humour. I burst out laughing at your deductive reasoning. Btw Hussain rhymes with Who is sane..LOL


jay 8 years ago

Sorry old boy, but your premise reeks of religious bigotry.

If you believe God created mankind, and that He created all living life, then logically He would allow different cultures to know Him by other names and forms. You are a religius dinosaur! The type of intolerant attitude you portray here is not somethign jesus would commend you for, neigh, He would banish you from His sight! May God bring you to your senses, and deliver you from your hatred and bigotry.


Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly 8 years ago from St. Louis

I'm going to write a hub titled: "Barack Obama is the anti-pasta," which will diagram - in depth - the similarities between Barack Obama and a plate of Italian anti-pasta, namely consisting of meats, cheeses, vegetables, olives, good bread, olive oil, and fruit, basically everything that is good without the unnecessary starch.


sixtyorso profile image

sixtyorso 8 years ago from South Africa

Shades thanks for putting me right. I was getting confused by all the posts and references on this hub. How about Barak is Black oh bummer to the tune of "black is black" a sixties pop tune popular around the time Kennedy was elected

lol All


sunforged profile image

sunforged 8 years ago from Sunforged.com

You could find more parallels between George Bush and your translation of Revelations. Particularly his broadening of executive powers, the terrible events that happened under his watch (because of his watch?) and his attempt to require national id cards and the limits imposed on travel under his regime.

Surely a greed hungry, lazy, war mongering , drug addict claiming to be christian is more of a threat than an intelligent open man who makes no claims to being a perfect Christian?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145971 (good article about his path to christianity -a seeker who is exposed to many views and turns to christ has far more substance than someone who goes to church because their parents did)

Your numerology video is just downright stupid, numerology has its place in the biblical tradition but is a far more complex and documented technique still used in the Kabbalahic traditions - its not as simple as letters in a name divided -

Otherwise what a great, very well researched and evidenced post - i disagree entirely with your views, but they are intelligently presented

Except for the 666 numerology video thats just king of the Hill redneck stupid -just pull the video and research real biblical numerology

Please read the link to newsweek -Obama is not a muslim - he was not raised a muslim-and his once Muslim father would now be considered an atheist -perhaps fuel for your fire, but a bad fact ruins an entire argument. Hussein is one of the most common names in the entire world, kind of like lee.

Why so caught up in watching for the end of the world/ if you are living a just and moral life and have accepted JC as your Saviour then your going to disneyland when it all goes up the chimney anyway? Why not get a more positive hobby like collecting groceries for teh homeless-you know christian charity?

http://hubpages.com/politics/3-800-000-hits-for-As...


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 8 years ago from South Africa

Wow - I can't believe that anyone takes this anti-Christ stuff (I nearly wrote another word also beginning with "s"!) seriously. If I remember the scriptures well Jesus himself said that the two commandments were to love your God and your neighbour, and that no-one would ever know when the world would end. Soemthing like that. And as another comment above mentioned, that His Father's house had many mansions. I also seem to remember something about other sheep that are not of this flock. What does love mean? What does doing good to others mean? Bombing the s... out of Iraq? Approving the murder of an admittedly not very nice man by an illegitimate regime? There is no point in arguing these "finer" points of theology. Why don't we spend our time and energy working to reduce poverty, over-population and reverse the degradation of our beautiful, God-given, world. And I for one give sincere thanks for the election of Mr Obama, who can only be an improvement on the dreadful GWB. No isn't there a good candidate for the anti-Christ? But what the hell is the point of arguing all of this. Just go out and be the best person you can be. That's what Jesus would have wanted for us all, I'm sure. Not to mention the Buddha, Muhammad and all the other saints of God who are not of the Christian faith (Oh yes, there are!!!).

Love and peace to you all, especially Mr Obama (may God give him strength)

Tony


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

'God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.'

You never know Arkwriter, he may just have sent a man with a foot in both camps (a black man with a white mother, a christian with a muslim name) to build a peace bridge in a divided world. Just a thought.

On the other hand he may just be the anti-pasta!

Thanks for being a good sport and allowing the assembled hubbers to have their fun!


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

tony - "Wow - I can't believe that anyone takes this anti-Christ stuff (I nearly wrote another word also beginning with "s"!) seriously." ...

And yet, you had the desire to contribute to the discussion as well ... I find that ... interesting. Clearly even those who dont' take it seriously, at least find the topic interesting, else it would not have the traffic it has had.

Arkwriter, although I don't believe Obama is AC, I do sincerely thank you for posting the hub and providing a forum for this discussion ... because even the humor and ridicule makes people think. And that's a good thing.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Amanda, I think and saw the same thing in one of my dreams a few months back.

Others, Jesus was Jewish in the what we now call the Middle East---those people's skin is darker colored so Jesus had to have dark skin. This is all rediculous because if God is in charge of everything then there is no need for fear of anything even to those who don't have Jesus in their hearts, which by the way it was said that he is there several times in the New Testament..........so if everyone already has Jesus in their hearts then what is all the fuss and fighting for? Oh and Jesus did say that the one top law he wants of us is to Love One Another. I don't see much of that going on here on some hubs at hubpages.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

Lady Guinevere has a good point.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

It is sad to see people on this hub mocking God's Word. Be not decieved, God is not mocked. He sees all and knows all, therefore He does see hubpages. I would not want to stand in the shoes of anyone who makes fun of Him or His Word. Vengence is mine saith the Lord. Arkwriter wrote this asking a very real question. He didn't write this to be joking or slanderous. What a pity this hub has become what it is. I'm sorry about this arkwriter. They are making a mockery of your hub and God.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

allshookup: Thank you for worrying about our souls. I'm going to continue to take my chances, and see this hub for what it is: partisan scaremongering and character assassination by the folks that have plenty of practice at doing that sort of thing.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

I don't recall God saying Obama was the Antichrist either ASU, so no-one is making fun of God or mocking him here that I can see. Even the serious comments made here largely point out why it is somewhat ludicrous to suggest Obama is the AntiChrist, and even Shades humorous post made good points about why the accusations are backed up by some pretty weak arguments.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU since you are so good at picking out the worst in everything and everyone why don't you tell us exactly where anyone was mocking God and His Word......


SirDent 8 years ago

A repeat of an earlier comment made by me is below. SirDent says:16 hours ago As I read the comments here the only thought that came to me was what went through the minds of all those who refused to hear what Noah preached for one hundred years.

To go further, what about the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrha? Abraham prayed and asked if there were 10 righteous in those cities would God destroy them. God said He wouldn't destroy them for 10 sake.

Many have mocked the Prophets of God through the ages but I assure you of this one thing. God will not be mocked.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Allshookup:  Nobody is mocking God's word.  Frankly, for those of us who aren't Christian, even mocking the Bible is not mocking God's word because, well, there's no evidence that it is God's word beyond the fact that you keep telling us it is.

That said, there's no mockery of it here anyway. No, I am having a bit of fun with a comment Ark made that linked Obama to terrorism by the reasoning of the "fact" that his name rhymed with Osama.  I'm sorry, but statements like that invite a humorous prod, nay, they demand one.  And, ok, I'm poking some fun at the whole antichrist thing too, but I'm doing it good naturedly and with an eye to humor not malice, and at the linking of it to Obama, which is not in the Bible.  I'm not a Christian so I don't have to quiver in fear every few years when the new, new antichrist appears.  I didn't tremble at the last eight or nine, and I'm not going to tremble at any of the next ones either.  I mean, if the anti-christ is any good, people aren't gonna spot him this early in the game anyway, be real.  Ain't he supposed to be all charming and charismatic, people flock to him unquestioningly?  You can hardly say Obama is being flocked to unquestioningly.

So, take no offense, Allshookup.  Nothing slanderous here.  Just some good old fashioned fun.  It's ok to lighten up sometimes, I promise. 

As a Christian, you really should learn to laugh at yourself a little.  I think people take themselves too seriously.  It's okay to have fun at our own expense, it's part of that whole "humility" thing.  I seriously doubt God or Jesus meant for everyone to be solemn and severe all the time.  But then, I'm the antichrist, so what do I know about God's plan. 

And Misty, I've already made my particular aesthetics known regarding the female figure.  I prefer svelte to sumptuous, although, I am an equal opportunity gawker, I will admit.  So curvy girls should not feel put off in my presence.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

They may not be weak in the writer of this hub's eyes. He seems very sincere and is looking for real answers. I never said that God said Obama is the anti-christ. If you read my posts, you'd see I don't feel he is. I shared my opinion because arkwriter asked a real question. But, even since I don't think he is, you don't see me making a joke of his hub. It seems all of the people who trash those of us who are saved gang up and want to make fun of us and our views and say we are not real Christians because we don't love this or love that, love love love etc. Yet, if we say anything against any of your views, you attack. You chastize us for not being loving and saying that athists and pagans are more loving. The way this hub is being treated is showing the love and respect pagans, etc have as proof.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU you can't answer your request now can you?

What, no one else can have an opinion but you? That is not how the world works. If God wanted everyone to be the same then he would have made them all the same.

Did Jesus ever laugh? I am sure he did, we just don't know it because everything is not in the Bible and it says so. Why don't you read it.---I mean the whole thing like it is a regular book with paragraphs and such.

You don't read do you. Ther have been hubs explaining Pagans and other forms of worship and religions, but you just want to attack them instead of understand them. Try understanding others before you try taking the splinter out of their eye and after you take the log out of yours.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

ASU, Sir Dent is right, no on is mocking God, the joke is on the AntiChrist whomever he or it may be. All these commenters are saying that if Obama is the AntiChrist, couldn't he be a little more clever, it's a joke.

But the purpose (so I think) of Arkwriters hub was to keep people are there toes by saying, well don't put it past you to believe he is not the antichrist, and everyone else is saying, look Obama (as it seems) is doing a good thing, let's just wait and see what happends.

When I suggested the anitchrist is coming from the christians, I also included that it is not all of them/you. I think that you feel compelled to have your brothers back, so to speak and you do it out of love.

I think you do everything out of love but the whole thing is getting way out of control all it is doing is helping to put more fear into people. But you said yourself, (I think it was you) that there is nothing to worry about because it is a good thing.

So there you have it, just like everyone else, what is there to worry about?


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Sandra, I have no fear because I have repented that I am a sinner and asked Jesus to come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior. I have placed my soul in His hands.  So, since I am saved, not perfect, but saved, I have no fear of the 'end of the world' since I have made the decision as to where I still spend eternity. I had that decision to make just as each and every person does. But, my point was what SirDent says, that God is not mocked and it feels very much  on this hub like He is being. It would not have been mentioned if it didn't feel that way.

Lady, I have no desire to take the time to answer any of your questions. We have talked before and I have found out that it is of no use to explain anything to you because of your attitude toward me and others I have seen you talk to who are saved and believe the whole Bible without adding to it or taking away from it. My time is better used elsewhere.


Pam Roberson profile image

Pam Roberson 8 years ago from Virginia

allshookup, in a comment you wrote, "It is sad to see people on this hub mocking God's Word. Be not decieved, God is not mocked. He sees all and knows all, therefore He does see hubpages. I would not want to stand in the shoes of anyone who makes fun of Him or His Word. Vengence is mine saith the Lord. Arkwriter wrote this asking a very real question. He didn't write this to be joking or slanderous."

I think Arkwriter has handled this entire hub well, and he has even said that he thinks some of the comments are funny. He obviously has a sense of humor. He could have denied any of the comments on this hub, but he hasn't, so, in my view, that makes him tolerant as well.

Nobody here is trying to mock God or his word. For example, I think Shadesbreath did a good job of making a point and just because it also happens to be funny doesn't mean he's mocking God or Arkwriter. We all express our thoughts and ideas in different ways, and accepting differences in others is what makes someone a good person. Judging others isn't our job as humans, that's God's job. ;)


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU, you are lost and lazy in the fact that you will not do as Christ told you to do and that is see if it all is the truth not by someone else's definition and he included the works and words of that Bible.  I am not sorry that you do not like my attitude but yours is just as bad.  So get over the insinuations that others are the bad guys.  Until you listen to Christ and really read what others have to say instead of putting up a false front and getting on the holier than thou attitude then you will continue to get what you give.

I have told you and others that I believe in Jesus and his words in the Bible and I believe in God and I was saved just as you.  For some reason you fail to believe or read or see that.  You keep spreading LIES about me that I don't believe in God and Jesus, just because I don't see them the exact same way as you. Now I am done with you.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

LG & ASU - Why are you both getting worked up against each other. What shades said was innocent humour and by no means insulting to Jesus Christ. Are we not entitled a little fun during the regular monotonous existence some of us lead. Did God want us to be serious all the time without having any fun. I have seen shades/t.kelley's writings which are full of humour/satire but it's ok as long as it is not personally directed at each other. We don't always have to agree with each other but we can disagree agreeably. I am sorry if any of my words has hurt either of you and apologize if I did.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

CW, I didn't hurt mine!


pgrundy 8 years ago

What bothers me is how extreme this whole idea is: Barack Obama is the antichrist. Geez! Talk about killing a gnat with a sledgehammer.

What every happened to respectful differences of opinion? You can't just disagree? He has to be the ANTICHRIST???? Good grief.

Also, I just want to point out that most Christians do not believe in this end times stuff. This is a very far right, extreme and IMO distorted interpretation of a single book of the Bible--Revelations--the most symbolic and obscure book in the entire text, and this interpretation is just to the right of totally bonkers. No serious biblical scholars think Barack Obama is the antichrist. None. Zero.

I just wish Christians who do believe this extreme stuff would stop speaking for all Christians. And please stop speaking for God too. I mean seriously, how would you feel if someone came up to you and was all like, "God is mad at you, no kidding, you are in so much trouble..." You'd probably tell that person to get lost. Nobody appreciates that kind of heavy handedness.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Pgrundy ... I'm going to try to say this as respectfully as possible...because I believe that you are a sincere lover of God and I have no desire to hurt you... but do you realize that by using terms like "distorted interpretation" and "totally bonkers" and "extreme right" that you are doing the very thing you are frustrated with them for doing? You are marginalizing and the beliefs of Christians that interpret the bible differently than you do. Again, I mean no disrespect.

The purpose of removing the logs from our own eyes to get the sawdust out of someone else's is to save the eye, not to collect sawdust. I think all of us (myself included) get so caught up in collecting sawdust, we forget that we are dealing with someone's eye.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

PG - you are right. I'm not a Christian but I've read my stuff. The synoptic gospels, written closest to the real events, are simple take it or leave it narrative. John is more personal. He was the disciple that Jesus loved, after all. And Luke is a poet, an artist, making beautiful scenes out of what he has been told. Then further down the line you get Peter interpreting retrospectively and Paul justifying like fury. And so on it goes, until, much later, you come to Revelation - the outpourings of a demented lunatic.

Now I've noticed that idealistic young folk, drawn to Christ's words of love and service, usually come to him via John. It's the older, bitter, hateful people that are attracted to Revelation. The ones who don't care much about loving their fellow creatures. Rather, they like the idea of torturing unbelievers. For all eternity.

It would have been better for all mankind if Revelation had been consigned to the dustbin of history before the printing press came along.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Paraglider I wrote a comment to you hub but it isn't showing but when I go back it is there???

Could it possibly be that the person who wrote revelations was on some kind of drug--cannibis or something like that. It is a possibility and no I am not mocking anything!

When I did a book report on Revelations back in highschool----a long time ago, It occurred to me that this war that is talked about had already happened--like when the Angels that rebelled against God and were thrown down out of heaven.


SirDent 8 years ago

Revelation is actually a history lesson of past and future events. Written by the same man who wrote the book of John. He was tossed into a pot of boiling oil and was not harmed. I have heard that his eyes were plucked out also, but I have found no evidence to verify that.

Revelation is not a scary book. It is not meant to scare people into submission. it is merely a history lesson as I mentioned above. The things it speaks about have happened and the future events it depicts will happen no matter what.

There indeed will be a beast, (possibly a rebirth of the Roman empire but that is only speculation) rise out of the sea, (gentile nations). This beast will wage war against Israel and Christians. Men will still blaspheme God, as some have done here in comments. It is what it is and no one can change it. God has spoken and God always tells the truth.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

 

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

This is Arkwriter.  I've been reading every word that you wrote, and I am not going to judge you.  That is not my job.  Just read what the Lord Jesus Christ said,

"And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him - the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day." (Jn. 12:47-48) 

You can write all the funny things that you want, and mock God’s words all you want but judgment is coming to you.  The Lord Jesus Christ said,

“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.  For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt.12:36)

I want to thank God for my fellow hubbers who love Him and their fellowmen.  There are some faithful Christian hubbers who are righteous before God, and our Father will honor them. 

For those who have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, my advice is for them to go on their knees and ask God to forgive their sins, then go and read the Holy Bible. Also ask the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart.

My object in writing this hub "Is Barack Hussein Obama the Antichrist of the End Time" is not to be disrespectful to the President Elect of the U.S.A. but to warn my fellow Americans about this deceptive politician who will bring America down.    I am an American and I will honor our constitution and accept him as our President after he is sworn into office on January 20, 2009.  Before the inauguration he is only a first term senator, and I shall write about who he really is.  You can either take my words or leave them?  It is your privilege.

There is a title of the Antichrist.  He is called "the son of perdition" (2 Thes. 2:3).  The word "perdition" means the eternal state of death.  The "son of perdition" is condemned forever.  The Lord Jesus Christ referred to Judas Iscariot as "the son of perdition" (Jn. 17:12)  What has Judas Iscariot got to do with the Antichrist?  Both of them have one thing in common.  They were both Christians and later betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ.  Judas was Jesus' disciple but left the Master. 

This is what the Bible says about the Antichrist."little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 Jn. 2:18-19)

Barack Hussein Obama claims to be a Christian but his statements does not show that he is a true Christian.  If he had been a Christian and had left the faith then he could be the Antichrist – the son of perdition.

Go to "The Truth about Barack Obama".

http://hubpages.com/politics/truthaboutobama

This hub is also a warning and an encouragement for Christians to keep the faith and do not leave the Lord Jesus Christ and He will not leave us (Heb. 13:5).

I hope and pray that those who write comments on this hub to be more respectful and serious otherwise they will not be published.

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


barranca profile image

barranca 8 years ago

This hub is a tower of babel. Will the true antichrist please stand up?


pgrundy 8 years ago

"You are marginalizing and the beliefs of Christians that interpret the bible differently than you do. Again, I mean no disrespect."

Paraglider said it better than I did, but I did mean to marginalize this interpretation because it IS a marginal interpretation, as in, not mainstream, not widely accepted, not easy to support in any scholarly way. Even just reading the Bible as a book, not THE BOOK, this interpretation of Revelations hardly jumps right out at you.

It just isn't true that all beliefs are equal and all deserve respect. We like to say that this is true but we all know it isn't. If it were true, we'd all respect Voodoo practitioners and defend their right to kill chickens and goats as part of a normal Church service, but almost no one defends that. Why not? If all religious beliefs are equal and all deserve respect then it has to be ALL of them. Those poor Heaven's Gate people who offed themselves believed that they were going to another planet through suicide. Does that belief deserve respect? I think that just because something gets branded as 'religion' it doesn't mean all bets are off when it comes to rational assessment of the ideas involved.

So any reasonable person can look at this stuff and say, OK, this is on the fringe, this is less so, and so on.

That's all I'm saying here. This is a fringe interpretation.

Also, I agree with Paraglider that the Gospels are what attracts most younger people, and Revelations seems to whip up people who are already angry or bitter or whatever. Christianity for most Christians is the Gospels first and foremost. Not all, but most.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

Don't you people have better things to do than point at someone you've never met and call him the Antichrist?

Why not devote your energy to POSITIVE pursuits? Why aren't you out making a difference in your homes and communities?

Shame on you.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Sir Dent, Where did you get your information from?

When I did my report on Revelations I could not use any religious leaders or clergy but my own mind and reading skills as it was a class for The Bible as Liturature and not a religious class.  It was an English class.


Latrelle Ross 8 years ago

Every election, someone I know thinks one of the candidates is the anti-christ. Frankly, we fear what we don't understand. And if you don't understand politics, the lives of the powerful and influential or what is involved in running a country then it would seem natural to be fearful.

Therefore, journalitic smear will keep you and fearful others distracted from the truth, instead of spending the time to understand what you do not know. This has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with ignorance.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

"My object in writing this hub "Is Barack Hussein Obama the Antichrist of the End Time" is not to be disrespectful to the President Elect of the U.S.A. but to warn my fellow Americans about this deceptive politician who will bring America down."

I think we have different definitions of "disrespectful".


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Why do you accuse people of not making a difference in their homes and communities? And then say 'shame on you'. You don't know what people do in their homes or communties.

Too, this is not a negative thing we are discussing. It's very real and it's Biblical. Like he said, if you don't want to take the Bible for it's what It says, you can take it or leave it. It's your choice. But again, this is not negative or fearful or scary if you have accepted Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior. It's exciting and something to look forward to. If the end is indeed nearing, then that's the most exciting time on earth because that means Jesus is getting ready to call those Home (to Heaven) who have received Him as their Savior. And I don't get where y'all are saying that those of us to like Revelations is old and bitter. I have always loved Revelation since I was saved. It tells the wonderful things that I will be a part of. And the greatest thing that I am going to see Him face to face! What can be more awesome than that? And where does it tell me that? In Revelation, Daniel, and other books. I love all of the Bible. I don't just pick out the books that talk about love. You can't pick and choose which books you want to take to believe since they all come from God. If you indeed love God, you take ALL of His Word. Not just the parts that make you feel good. I see on here that so many want to just talk about love love love. And love is great, but there's more to it than love. I am not bitter about anything. I am excited about seeing Jesus. How could I not be? When He calls me Home, whether in death or in the Rapture, there's so many things I wont have there. I will not have the pain that I have 24/7/365, I wont have all the doctor's visits, I wont have surgeries, I wont have to wonder where the money will come from for my bills, I will be healthy again. I have forgotten what that feels like. And to know that I will be healthy again, I get so excited I just want to yell "Come NOW Lord Jesus!" Because when He does, it will be the single most wonderful day in a person's life who is saved. I don't see any bitterness in that. I see beauty, wonder, happiness, love, healing. I could go on and on. But, I hope you see my point. To me, this is a postive hub because I have already made my decision as to where my soul will live eternally. And I am excited about it! This old world is not my home, I'm just a passing through, my treasures are laid up, somewhere beyond the blue. The angels beacon me from Heaven's open door and I can't feel at home in this world anymore.


marisuewrites profile image

marisuewrites 8 years ago from USA

Let's think.  Do you think the anti christ would run against a really good candidate, one that would be a good choice, or do you think the anti christ would run against a candidate that was a really bad choice, but looked good to many people?

Do you think the anti christ would look really good, sound good, sound intelligent, but run against someone who sounded incoherent, just to confuse us??  We're suppose to pick the incoherent one? 

In other words, do you think we "had" to choose either the confused unqualified guy and gal, or the anti-christ?  Seems like that would mean God doesn't give us a good voting choice at all, we're doomed either way then?

As a calm thinking person, it's common sense to me, with all my vast scripture knowledge ( well, some....)  I'm thinking that the anti christ, if he were to be a candidate for the President of the United states, would run against someone who was really good, sounded intelligent, co-herent, had a plan, was going to be able to handle situations, but we would choose the anti-christ instead, just because we're not very smart as voters, we'd just go for the charming guy. 

If that's the case, then I'm thinking Obama's not the anti-christ.  Guess we'll have to wait til another election to panic folks, cuz McCain surely wasn't the "better choice" since he was incoherent, erratic, didn't have a plan, and obviously not the one to lead this nation out of the mess we're in, nor was his partner.  I don't think the Devil would be so "dumb" as to run against someone so obviously not a good choice.  He's going to wait and run against a good choice, so we can really get in trouble when we get to heaven...voting for the wrong one. 

Ahem.  Are we so used to confusion in the White House that we label the not confused candidate evil?  Me thinks we are just a bit too eager to declare God coming....He's got his own schedule, maybe we ought to cool it with the labeling and just clean up the mess - if you're looking for anti christ, I think the last 8 years got pretty close to evil. 

Too late now, in any case, we voted and I'm in trouble I guess since I voted "him" in.  If any one has more "clout" with God than I do, please put a kind word in for my obvious stupidity.  (tongue in cheek, tho' I always appreciate prayers.)

Course, some people love to panic, maybe their hot line to heaven is stronger than the rest of ours...I'm with Gamergirl...let's do something good for our neighbors and not be screaming evil. Where were the evil screams during the last 8 years of shame??


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Are you sure you are not a walk-in ASU:

http://www.crystalinks.com/walk_ins.html


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

I would just like to throw a question into the pot here! If the president elect is the "anti-christ" what would that make his wife and 2 children. Do I get any comments on that?

and a rider to that question. Has any other "anti-christ" had a wife and children that they are prepared to sacrafice when the end of the world arrives?


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

LOL

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly we are to title people who just plain disagree with us...sheesh...he's our president. Respect the fella for crying out loud. I have said in my comments before the Bible never supports a physical, humanly manifested version of the antichrist. It's a sci-fi notion that the left behind books monopolised on and guess what...it's fiction, plain and simple fiction.


ajcor profile image

ajcor 8 years ago from NSW. Australia

Good comment marisue - and you do ask such an obvious question "Where were the evil screams during the last 8 years of shame?? - altho it could probably be seen as a mark of respect not to call an incumbent president the Anti-Christ. (tongue in cheek here..)

ag - as Obama (nor indeed Mr. Bush) is definitely not the anti-Christ his family would be completely unaffected by this perjorative lable! cheers.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

keeley, some of us, (me being one of them) do not agree with the Left Behind books. I am pre-Trib. You do realize that because you call the Bible sci-fi that it doesn't make it so, right? And people who have studied the Bible have talked about the Rapture for many many many years before LaHaye was ever born. I don't know where your theory comes from about the fact that they came up with it, but you're not right on that. My great-grand parents were looking for the Ratpure and the anti-christ and they are certainly older than those books you talk about.


Leta S 8 years ago

Maybe to be fair to everyone, I'm thinking most here do not fully grasp the Christianist mindset. So, among other things, its like a blind talking to blind dialogue.

Andrew Sullivan, conservative (intelligent), and a Christian himself, runs a good online blog on the Atlantic site sometimes discussing Christianists, if any are interested.

I believe basically what pgrundy says, concerning some beliefs, and "less so," but I confess I have no idea how to reach any common ground in speaking, though I have a tendecy to try to respect all people, so I'm choosing, I guess, not to speak--lol, much, :). My largest fear remains not with the ideas of the far right, but that they will eventually evoke hateful actions towards Obama or others.


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

ASU you say your great grand parents were looking for THE antichrist, that would be what abour 100 years give or take a few. Did they ever find one, if so can you point out to us unenlightened people who he was/is and if he succeeded in his mission. If he did not succeed how was he vanquished.

This is a serious question and I think deserves a serious answer.


SirDent 8 years ago

The spirit of antichrist has certainly shown in comments on this hub.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Just what is an anti-christ? What do they look like, how do they act, what do they eat, and how do they decieve the population and is it global or just local?

Is someone an anitchrist because they want to make changes that no one is prepared or wants to have. Is it just the idea that there is change period? Or is it someone who just doesn't do as we wish them to do or be or think as we do?

For goodness sake the man isn't even in office right now and all these SPECULATIONS are going around and scaring the people before anything is even done! At least give the guy a chance!


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

You said a mouth-full SirDent.

About my family looking for the Ratpure. Anyone who is saved and reads the Bible has always looked forward it. No one wants to die. It's not a pleasant thought to leave those you love behind. But if your loved ones are saved, then the Rapture is the ultimate dream come true. You all go to Heaven together. And they didn't see the anti-christ as they have told it. Although they read Revelations and Daniel and well, the rest of the Bible, they knew signs to look for. The Bible does not give his name, only signs for us to look for. Since we are still here, that shows the Ratpure has not occurred yet. That's what we are waiting and praying for. That's why this hub is so exciting! They didn't get to see the Rapture from this side, although they will see it from the side they are on now. And they didn't get to witness the anti-christ. But they will be able to know him at the battle of Armageddon. Which we already have in the bag! Good to know huh? We have already defeated him. I don't know what you mean about if he did not succeed how was he vanquished. But I do know how he will be put away once he is here and active on earth. The battle I just told you about. The blood from that battle will flow high as the horses bridles. But none of that blood will be from Christians. Not one drop. The anti-christ will not succeed. He will indeed think he has conquored the world, but in the end, he doesn't win because he's on the wrong side. It's such a comfort and joy to know Who's side I'm on and to already know the outcome!


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

I would love to see credible Christian(ist) sources identifying Napoleon, Hitler, and others above, as the AntiChrist, *before* their horrors were well-known to the world. It would be helpful to see who else these sources identified as an AntiChrist, to make sure they weren't just saying everyone powerful was, just to cover their bases.

Saying, in hindsight, that Hitler was a bad man, and then applying a quite different set of standards and *predicting* Obama will be a bad man, strikes me as a serious lapse in logic.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Those people in the past were not the anti-christ. If any of them were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

ASU: arkwriter does identify them as antichrists in his Hub. Read the above. He says there have been many.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

How ya gonna judge Obama when he hasn't done anything- I guess that would be words from an antiChirst?

People are condeming him without anything solid to back it up, sound like that time Jesus was "condemned" by the jews and the (another antichrist) Caesar was like, um..but...ahh, and...ok you know what, you deal with it cause he didn't do anything.

In Christ words, do not judge let you be judged. You basically condeming Obama, so I guess you could expect the same judgement to yourself...

But of couse this must be the spririt of the antichrist taking hold of my language rebuking your unfairness.

He didn't do anything, he didn't chose his mother, he didn't chose his place of birth, he didn't pick his name...

If everything went by names, than I would be an angel of protection, goddess of love and helper of man, born with the sun in the bull, my boyfriend would be Jesus because well, he actually looks like Jesus, he loves fishing, he builds things for a living, he was born of the water (auarius) he has a dog named Star his dad's name is David and my daughters name is Morgan, or in German Morning.

So come one!!! If things based on silly assumptions that Obama is the antichrist because he has these traits and his name and blah, blah, blah, that would make my boyfriend Jesus.

Ideas are fun but their not ok when they are taken to a level that could harm another person. He is a human you know, he has feelings, he has a family and I am sure that his daughters would be just a little confused to want to know why people are calling their daddy a monster.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I am referring to the anti-christ. The one man who will bring in the end times.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

ASU: Well, it appears you and arkwriter disagree.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Think hard before you judge a stranger to be anything other than your Brother and Friend.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Hey, Allshookup, I thought I should point out that nobody really rides horses in battle much anymore.  That "blood to the bridle thing" is a lovely piece of writing, but, yeah, uh, no.

And as for the "Anyone who is saved and reads the Bible has always looked forward it."  You are probably right.  I would just point out that the word "saved" as you use it appears to refer to those people who believe precisely as you do and who have undergone the same rituals etc. that you have as directed by your reading of the many times translated book you have.  So, while I am convinced that your point is made perfectly by your statement, I can add my own:

Anyone who is NOT "saved" as described by certain Christian beliefs has NOT looked forward to "it," and instead finds it completely outside the realm of anything even remotely possible, probable or plausible.  Anyone who has not participated in these "saving" rituals of this particular religion will not only NOT be looking forward to it, they will not being scouring the faces of everyone they meet with furrowed brow and stern visage and with hawkish eyes looking for the harbinger of death and destruction or for signs of heresy, infidelity and blasphemy. 

Nope, those people not so indoctrinated by those rites and rituals will just go on living happily, uncringing, finding no beasts in the shadowy complexion of a black president, no mayhem in the message of inclusion of a popular president or any other angle that seeks ways justify the pointing of fingers and invoking of the righteous declaration, "YOU, YOU... YOU are not saved.  Not saved by my God as I read him.  Not saved by ME.  You will burn, suffer and writhe in enternal misery for not believing ME."


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

This has nothing whatsoever to do with me. Nothing at all. And the choice is yours as to where you spend eternity. I pray you chose Heaven, but again, it's your choice as God gave you free will.

You said I don't agree with arkwriter. I said up front that I don't believe that Obama is the anti-christ so many have looked for all these years. But, that I may be wrong, and Obama may be him. I am not sure. The Bible says that there are many antichrists here but he (meaning 1) will come. We don't disagree on that. I agree with him that there are many, but that too, there is 1 that will be the, shall I say, 'big dog'.

You use the term 'my God', but that is not true. There is only one God. Not my god, your god, their god. Only one God. I nor any other human made it that way. It's just the way it is whether you or I or anyone else believes it. It doesn't change the way it is.

An ostrich hides it's head in the sand. But does that make it hid because it THINKS its hid? No. Same thing goes here. You nor I can change the facts of this world God made. He created this world in the beginning and He will finish how it ends. We have no control, control belongs to God.


pylos26 profile image

pylos26 8 years ago from America

where are you paraglider...??? shades is trying to use logic debating with what seems to be "airheads" in this hub...


Misha profile image

Misha 8 years ago from DC Area

Paraglider is sleeping :) He lives in Dubai...


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU Who told you there was One God? It couldn't have been the Bible becaseu you are afraid to read the whole thing. So WHO told you there is only ONE GOD? Inquiring minds want to know...


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" KJV

I thought you were through with me.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

ASU, I NEVER said the Bible was sci-fi. I said the notion of the rapture and a 7 year tribulation is sci fi.

The historical view of the church is amillennialism, aka there isn't a rapture, just a second coming ... period.

Understand that the views of pre-trib dispensationalism is indeed only 150 years old...right before your grandparernts would be searching for the antichrist too. Also understand that I'm not calling pre-tribbers crazy, just misinterpretors of the actual meaning of eschatological books of the Bible. It's not an issue of gut feeling....the reality is that there just ins't a physically embodied anti-christ foretold in the Bible!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU you gave me scripture. Before you read the bible in as bible study class who told you there was one god?


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

well, your entitled to your opinion. I have read several of your hubs and many of your posts. You seem to have been raised in a Bible believing church, but then got disheartened with it, so you turned against what the Bible says about several things. I'm sorry you had bad experiences in church and college, but that's not a reason to turn away from things that you were taught that are right. It feels like you chose to go against things that you were taught because you have hard feelings against those people so you chose to believe the opposite of whatever they said as punishment to them.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU, I can't be totally done with you because what you have shown me about yourself prior to my hub is a different person then you have shown me now. Me thinks there is something else going on in the background as to you switch of character.

That site about the catholics is the history of the religion and it isn't bad, You were the one that came up with all kinds of fear about that even being in the equation on the other hub. If you just would read the stuff in the links then I could understand you better, but you put up a defensive shield right from the very start. I don't have to agree with you on anything but I still can love your spirit and soul and that I do. Each of us are on a different lesson plan and each of us has lessons to learn from others about ourselves in the process. Like I said you don't have to believe anything that I say, but please take down that shield and breath a bit.


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 8 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

I'd like to go back to an excellent point Marisuewrites made above. The antichrist would have been (or would be) much more insidious than to lead us Americans to vote for the logical, qualified, and good-hearted candidate. Nay, the antichrist would trick us into voting against our best interests.

Think about whose experience and policies would be most likely to lead to worldwide destruction -- most likely via nuclear holocaust. Who should we (and the world) be more afraid to have fingering that button? Is it the unflappable community organizer named Obama? Or is it a cleverly disguised charismatic figure by the name of.....

Sarah Palin? I'm serious folks. The Rapture will occur in 2012 if she runs for president.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU says:

well, your entitled to your opinion. I have read several of your hubs and many of your posts. You seem to have been raised in a Bible believing church, but then got disheartened with it,

LG says, No I was not and have not been. How can you make such and assumption because of a few posts that I have made? You are judging me by a few comments...........

ASU says: so you turned against what the Bible says about several things. I'm sorry you had bad experiences in church and college, but that's not a reason to turn away from things that you were taught that are right.

LG says, You are wrong. I never had any bad things happen to me a college. Are you getting me mixed up with someone else? I never went back on what I was taught. I searched for answer and I got them. I didn't go to clergy because they accused me of doing something that I have never done. That doesn't mean that I just gave up my love of God and you have not read all my hubs or you would understand that. You may of read a few sentences and then came to some wrong conclusion, but that is all you did.

ASU says: It feels like you chose to go against things that you were taught because you have hard feelings against those people so you chose to believe the opposite of whatever they said as punishment to them.

LG, now who would I be punishing for finding God and Jesus the way I did? You have not read enough of my hubs to get a clear picture of anything that I am. You have no idea who I am, you just like to battle for what you have been told is right. You read my Minister hub--all the way through and you will see the techniques that ministers are taught to keep a congregation in line and to convert them....I chose not to go through all that. I don't convert anyone.

You are assuming things with very little actual knowledge and facts and then because you do not understand you accuse me of going against religion and what I have been taught. You are wrong and I will tell you that because you are wrong about me.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

ASU...."turn from things that are right"...

I'm not disheartened with anything as much as I found what people historically believe. People who actually know greek, hebrew, and aramaic, who studied their entire lives, who were part of the early church.

THEY BELIEVED THEY WERE IN THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF CHRIST. This is people directly descended from Paul, Peter, James, etc., in the church history. They weren't wrong. If anything they were as close to being right as anyone since they learned from people who learned from Christ Himself.

Intwerpret the Bible how you want. I have not turned from anything, I've just actually studied what it is I believe and what is actually taught in the Bible. I don't get caught up in the neo-fundamental debates of doctrine that you consider "correct." What actually negates them being correct, ASU? What you were taught? The whole argument of "the holy spirit told me" is advocated from every angle of the argument, so it's a moot point. The Spirit can't tell people different things or something is wrong.

The Spirit, according to the Bible, was in Paul and Peter, who both advocated the present millennial reign of Christ in their day. That much you cannot argue with or debate.

MM...sigh...I needed a chuckle, and you delivered yet again. Thanks madame.

LG: she was talking down to me and my "horrible past." My horrible past filled with liars, devils, and pain. The past that catalysed my outright hatred for modern organised religion that pumps its name to all ends of the earth for political reasons. It doesn't mean I turned from anything, but apparently the obvious lies I was taught are actually truth...so I've been deceived, in other words.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

I'm inclined to agree with Mighty Mom. If you believe that Napoleon, Hitler and others were "lesser antichrists", then you have to notice the pattern of them drawing their support from the blindly patriotic, those inclined to support foreign empire-building, and most importantly, those willing to chuck human reason (isn't that supposed to be one of our divine gifts?) out the window in favor of unblinking allegiance.

I think you'll find that the greatest thinkers and intellectuals, not religious zealots, sounded early warnings about Hitler and people like him. Heinrich Heine: "Wherever books are burned, human beings are destined to be burned too."


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I am not planing on aurging or debating anything with you keeley. There's nothing you can say that will ever change my mind. I have seen your hubs, like the one on gay marriage. Things like that tell me a great deal about where you stand on Biblical issues. I just stated how you come across to me. You did an entire hub on how racial your college is. You just seem very angry at people in your past about what they taught you. And you seem to want to rebel and go against what they taught. No matter if what they taught you were right or not. It seems your anger or dislike of them is a higher priority than other things, like this hub and the truth of it. Arkwriter did a great job of this hub. I don't see eye to eye with him on all of it, but I respect how he wrote it.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I dislike racism and discrimination...two sins of human kind, how is that "bitter"? I'm really confuased now. The hub on my college was true, the school has a history of racism! Gay marriage, while I don't agree with it, is a moral--not legal--issue. Do not put words in my mouth, I'm not being unbliblcal. I just choose to not enforce biblical teaching thru government. I don't think that's wrong at all.

I respect his writing too, and I never said otherwise. I'm merely stating that, froma historical point of view, the pre-trib view is wrong. Can't handle that then I guess I'm sorry, but I'd side with Paul before preacher Jones at the church on the corner, personally. Just my point of view, but if the dudes who started the church right after Christ believe it, then I'm inclined to believe it too.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA


barranca profile image

barranca 8 years ago

LOL. Why don't we just play pin the tail on the donkey?


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

ASU, t.keeley (and any other Bible believers) ... I respectfully refer each of us to Romans 14:1-4 ... this is, after all, a public discussion.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

It's so fun to watch someone who thinks they have THE Truth. It's like watching a documentary on condescending behavior. The good ones can maintain their resolve, protected from blasphemy and the spears and arrows of unbelievers, and be calmly intractable within the deathstar of their faith, oblivious to what's really going on.

It kind of reminds me of those guys who put the tin foil hats on their heads to prevent the aliens from getting into their minds and taking them over. They smile up at you, aware that you think their beliefs are absurd, but happy in the certainty of their knowledge and the security of the protective shield they have. Frankly, I can't decide if I envy this peace of mind and contented superiority or if I pity it for the delusion and obstacle to knowing the world they actually live in.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

You can borrow my tin foil hat, if you'd like SB ;)


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I'm not trying to say I have THE truth, but I am saying that the book we Christians read is largely misinterpreted. That's really all that there is to it, but apparently there's something I'm missing or I'd not be the one pointed out as misinformed here.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

I am guessing Shades wasn't aiming that comment at you t'keeley.

Can you clarify this Shades unless I am wrong?


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Good read BDazzler, yip, I think it is worth peoples consideration to read, I think probably Romans 14-15:14.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I could see it if he was, though, a lot of what I said could have been taken that way. I at least feel it could.


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

OK ASU seeing you don't want to answer my other question. I'm a practical person will you please explain to me if the pres elect does all of a sudden turn into the "bad guy", how is he going to overcome the whole us congress and senate and all the other watchdogs you have, to perpertrate his evil doings?

Remember Richard Nixon now surely he would qualify as a "bad guy" and he did not prevail!


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 8 years ago

Dick Cheney is obviously the antichrist. Or what about Pat Robertson or Jerry Foulwell?


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Mighty Mom 8 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

LOL, Ralph. What if it turns out to be Pope Benedict XVI??. Now there's a clever disguise! And he was born in Germany -- home of another well-known AntiChrist figure.


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Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Nope, not at you T.Keeley. You're one of the "white hat" Christians in my mind.


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Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Misha said "Paraglider is sleeping :) He lives in Dubai..." Minor correction, I live in Doha. But pretty close, and yes I was sleeping. But I'm awake now, and notice that no-one on the thread has changed their opinion on anything. My prize for the best piece of lunacy thus far goes to the hub's revered author, who intends no disrespect to the President Elect but simply believes him to be the antichrist. Livelonger also singled this out. Oh well, work to do, must go...


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Hi Fellow Hubbers,

Thanks for your comments. 

Although I may not agree with some of you in everything but I do understand why we disagree on whether or not Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) is the Antichrist of the End Time.  The comments in this Hub indicate there are at least three views of the End Time based on the Great Tribulation (Mt. 24:21-22).

1.  Amillennial View  -  The Book of Revelation is symbolic of God's kingdom being victorious through the Church.  They do not believe there is an actual period called the Great Tribulation.  To them everything is symbolic, including the Antichrist.  BHO is outside their view.

2.  Pretribulation View  -  All believers are raptured (caught up into heaven) before the Great Tribulation during which time the Antichrist will be revealed.  Since they are still on earth therefore they do not believe the Great Tribulation is here.  Subsequently they do not believe BHO can be the Antichrist.

3. Posttribulation View - All believers are raptured at the end of the Great Tribulation when the Lord Jesus Christ returns. In this view Christians would go through the Great Tribulation.

Of these three views I believe the third one - Posttribulation - is correct because the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said He would return "immediately after the Great Tribulation" (Mt. 24:29-31). The apostle Paul also wrote the Antichrist called "man of sin and son of perdition" will first be revealed then he will be destroyed by Christ when He returns (2 Thes. 2:1-8)

If you read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 you will understand why and how BHO won Election 2008. The Antichrist is called the lawless one because he disregards God's laws on abortion and same-sex marriage. BHO is going to change America and the world.

BHO has already made plans by using executive order to throw away GWB's restrictions on stem-cell research as soon as he takes office. BHO will allow the use of embryonic cells from aborted babies for research. There will be more abortions because they can sell the embryos for research. This is the evil scheme of the devil. Read what the Bible says about this evil man being used by Satan.

"The coming of the lawless one (BHO)is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thes. 2:9-12)

The American Government will be controlled by the Democrats. The President, Senate and House of Representatives have the majority of Democrats. They have a liberal, socialist and leftist agendas. They are for abortion distribution of wealth from Marxist ideologies. BHO will nominate liberal judges to the Supreme Court. BHO will make new laws to change America.

Now you know why America is going down when BHO is elected president.

To my Christian friends who have pretribulational view and hope to be raptured in secret before the Great Tribulation I invite them to read my article on this topic.

http://www.geocities.com/tribulation_ark/rapture.h...

Your comments are welcome.

May God bless Y'all

Arkwriter


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Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Ark, that quote you used after the paragraph where you say Obama is going to make girls have reckless sex and start harvesting babies out of their wombs for cash has nothing in it about aborition, stem cells, the predisposition of Obama (whom you have labeled/libeled as antichrist) for making any of that happen at all.  In logic and reasoning, what you have with that quote is called a non-sequitur, which translates to "does not follow," which means, the claim you make (Obama will make women start farming their uteruses) is not a logical or even related conclusion to the evidence you give.  It would be like me saying, "My cat is going to kill our dog tonight" (claim) because "it is supposed to rain this afternoon."

Your Bible quote reads thusly:

"The coming of the lawless one (BHO)is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thes. 2:9-12)

We understand you mean Obama to stand in for "the lawless" and that you pin him to the work of Satan.  That's cool, that's your premise here, so we can let the "all power, signs and lying wonders" stuff go since those come with the standard Satan package.  The next part, "and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved," also has to be assumed because your whole accusation is that Obama is evil and the people who weren't convinced to join up with the evangelists who condescended to them with their Bibles in hand, so, even though I don't buy the horror story itself, I'm just trying to follow your logic and up to this point, I can still follow the reasoning.  But then you go on to say, "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."  So, this reads to me that because the evil people who didn't believe the Bible thumpers who condescended to them and cavorted around with supercillious airs and invoked un-logic and absurd scare tactics all the time, because they didn't bite on the scary story and join up, God will "send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie" that your nemisis Obama is selling so that they may all be condemned etc.

First off, God is the one who is sending the "strong delusion" here.  So I have to ask, what the heck kind of God wants people to worship him and share in his love and wisdom but takes no active role in making that happen (at the very best for over 2000 years) but then, when the time comes and something scary starts happening like Obama taking over the whole world and making women scrape babies out of their wombs for fast cash and Visa travel miles, how does God decide it's a better tactic to send those people who might actually start to think, "Hey, maybe there is something to Christianity after all, finally some evidence," a "strong delusion?"  So HE's like, "Hey, some of these people thought my messengers were bombastic and judgmental and that the many generations of translations of my Word by power hungry men were incoherent, but they finally have a reason to believe... hah ha... So I will send them delusion instead so they can suffer for how miserable my followers over the thousands of years prior to them being born butchered the message and made it too unpalatable for anyone who thinks."

That's my first thought on that quote you gave to support your farming the uteruses thing.  The second point is that, nowhere in your quote does it say anything about Obama or uterus farming or anything else.  It's just the antichrist is coming and anyone who didn't believe is going to have God make sure they totally fall for Satan's ploy by intervening with his own lies to that Satan and God are both working against the people now.  That's awesome.  What a great and loving God you have got going there.


Leta S 8 years ago

Blinding them with science again, Shades? Hmmmm?


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 8 years ago

Well put Shadesbreath! But why do we waste our time with these people? (Note: I resisted using several less complimentary appelations that came to mind)


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Yeah, Lita, I can't help it.

I do because I'm bored and I can, Ralph. Plus, I just can't think of anything to write, and I'm editing this f-ing novella to the point of nausea so I look for any excuse to not work on it for long chunks of time. /sigh


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Morning people, I just got online and see arkwriters' hub is still going strong. You go man!! Arkwriter, I am pre-Trib, but I do feel that we who are saved may witness seeing the anti-christ. I just believe we'll be taken up before the 7 years of tribulation start. I believe the anti-christ is alive right now. I may have somewhat of a different view than other pre-tribs, but my husband and I did a lot of reasearch and studying and this is the view we have come to believe. Maybe I should call it shookup-trib lol.

Lita, mentioned science. Science doesn't really impress me much. It can't explain how God created the earth and many other things. It seems when science can't 'prove' something, that they come up with some astronomical number like 1,000,000,000,000,000  years ago this and that happened. Knowing that the world is not that old. They say things and claim them as proof. And if they can't come up with some huge explanation that no one can disprove, they claim it's not real. Scientists are excellent spin doctors. Sadly, so many of them have so little faith.

Obama has already said that he'll start stem cell research in a huge way soon after he's in office. I am curious to find out how he plans on going about doing that. I pray it's the safe way, not killing babies for it.

agvulpes, I didn't answer you because I was in bed. In fact I am just now seeing you question. From looking at the election, he's going to have quiet a lot of people from the house and senate in his pocket. It wont take much to get passed what he wants. And being the spin doctor specialist he is, I'm sure he can word whatever he wants passed in a way that makes it look like whatever he wants at a given time is a good thing and many will continue to drink his coolaid. This is all for a reason I believe. It's too long here for me to explain what I mean. If you want to know more, I wrote a hub on why Obama was meant to be our president.

Shades, God doesn't interfere with our free will, that's why He hasn't forced anything on us or made us do anything. We would be robots if that were what happens. Also, you keep using the word 'sacry' and I don't know why. There's nothing scary about this hub. If I'm wrong and he is the anti-christ, then I'm about to go Home! How could that be sacary? That is something to celebrate.......seeing Jesus face to face, don't you think?


Leta S 8 years ago

"Blinding with science" is an 80's pop tune. Somewhat apropo to Shade's mode of logistics/writing and somewhat meant in jest.

And you know, many scientistists have no issue with God--their scope just perhaps is a little broader. All I will say...

I'm here because I have a stack of paperwork I'm doing an inch thick, and man oh man it is tedious--Shades.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Dear ASU, food for thought...

What if the rapture already occured and you as well as me as well as everyone who is still here, were the ones left behind, and the tribulation had alreay began and it is going to get much worse as time goes by?

You know, because I have been told time and time again that if you see God, you are dead, so based on this logic, I could assume that you were left behind.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Dear ASU, food for thought...

What if the rapture already occured and you as well as me as well as everyone who is still here, were the ones left behind, and the tribulation had alreay began and it is going to get much worse as time goes by?

You know, because I have been told time and time again that if you see God, you are dead, so based on this logic, I could assume that you were left behind.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

It is my opinion that the Pentecostals and other Charismatic Church followers have the most unhinged, and hate-filled, views from among all the Christian denominations. Despite all their thunderous warnings about an angry, vengeful God, it seems all of their predictions have been wrong.


Leta S 8 years ago

Well, yes, livelonger. A United Church of Christ (denomination Obama belongs to) biblical scholar and a fairly conservative man I know (as I think I mentioned) would agree with that. Says, in fact, they deal in sensationalism and that it is something of a sin, actually.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Sandra, logic has nothing to do with it. Faith does. The people who built the tower used logic as they could build it up to Heaven to see God. See how well their logic worked?

Again I ask why y'all keep using words like 'scary' and words like that. No one has answered that question yet that I see.


SirDent 8 years ago

I have now been called unhinged. That's a first for me. :D

Lita, I don't mean to pick on you but that song is titled "She Blinded me With Science." not "Blinded With Science." Thats how rumors get started. :P


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

If ya read my hub you would understand that now ASU.


Leta S 8 years ago

Sir Dent-

I have a nonliteral temperment and am also a poet, so! That was just a reference, directed at Shades, who I knew would get the intent. Also what we poet's call an 'allusion' to a work. Bible's full of 'em--but that borders on opinion, so I'll back off! :)

And hey, you're OK, in my book, as long as you don't throw hate around or plan to or support plans to kill Mr. Obama.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Sandra,

What you wrote is a new twist I haven't heard or read about.

"What if the rapture already occured and you as well as me as well as everyone who is still here, were the ones left behind, and the tribulation had alreay began and it is going to get much worse as time goes by?"

No one has been raptured. There is no one reported missing.

The reason why the word "scary" is used so often in the comments of this hub is because the Great Tribulation is really scary with the Antichrist. There will be only two types of people in the world during the Great Tribulation - believers and unbelievers. Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ have nothing to be scared about.

Jesus has promised to help them during this difficutl period of time. "Watch therefore and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (Lk. 21:34-36) Christians should spend more time in prayer in order to go through the Great Tribulation.

For your information, there are two conditions of going to heaven. Are you ready for this? "These are the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev. 7:9-14). This is one of the reasons why I am not scared of going through the Great Tribulation. Our Lord Jesus Christ said, "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you have peace. In the world you will have tribulationl but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." (Jn. 16:33)

May the Lord guide you and bless you.

Arkwriter


Writer Rider 8 years ago

Arkwriter, Jesus would not like your blog. Obama has done "nothing" to prove he's the anti-christ.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Arkwriter, Great point about the Rapture. Common sense works well. Logic I'm not so sure about as that was my 'food for thought.' But you explained that in a great way.


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Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Allshookup, didn't get back to this till now, I'll try to explain the use of the word "scary" as best I can.

When you wrote, "Also, you keep using the word 'sacry' and I don't know why. There's nothing scary about this hub. If I'm wrong and he is the anti-christ, then I'm about to go Home! How could that be sacary? That is something to celebrate.......seeing Jesus face to face, don't you think?"

The reason the term "Scary" is used by people who don't buy into this whole antichrist thing (whether it be pointed at Obama or at any of the other ones in the past) is because from the perspective of someone who hasn't gone through all the rituals and stuff required to be "Saved" the story is about stuff that can be taken as meant to scare (whether that is the intent of the Christian telling the story or not).  Think about, here's the story in a nutshell, as heard by people who haven't bought it yet: 

A horrible force of evil known as Satan who lives in a place of eternal suffering and damnation is going to put on Earth a powerful minion who will pretend to be nice and will fool everyone into thinking he is nice by doing things that seem nice and working towards things that seem nice.  Only the Christians who know how to spot fake-niceness from real niceness will be able to recognize Satan's evil minion.  Anyone who has not listened to the stories of these Christians will be fooled by Satan's minion, and God will even "send them strong delusion" to make sure they don't get to spot the fake-niceness for the evil it really is.   Once Satan's minion, working with the aid of God's "strong delusion," finishes working his plan, all the people who didn't listen to the smart, wise Christians will get to burn in horrible agony alongside all their children and anyone else who didn't listen too. They will spend an eternity in torture and misery for not having selected one particular version out of hundreds upon hundreds of possible Christian interpretations, not to mention every other religion on Earth.

Now, given all the torture and misery and death and dead babies and stuff, you surely can see how people who AREN'T already believers in this story might see that story as "scary."  Death and burning and being plotted against by gods and demons and stuff is pretty much uninversally recognized as the stuff of fear, stuff that counts as "scary."

So, for you to say, "I get to go see Jesus if it happens, how is that scary?" is either missing or ignoring the obvious point that the use of the word "scary" is NOT meant to describe the opinions of the people who believe there is any truth at all to this myth, but instead applies to the people who remain unconvinced and therefore see the story like any other story of monsters, demons or wanton death and misery.  That stuff falls under the category of "scary" or "horror."  Not that anyone is actually scared, just that the tactic or story details are better suited by that word than by "lovely" or "fun."  Which you well know, but, I remain bored today, so I thought I would pretend you didnt' know that and explain it to you since you took the time to pretend you didn't know and asked.  :)


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

What I am trying to explain, and it feels so much like it's falling on deaf ears here, and so I may be about through with this hub. Although I want to thank arkwriter again for his time he put into this hub. Shades, God gives us all free will. I guess my question to you would be: Why would anyone not want to be saved? Why would anyone make that choice to go to hell? I have tried so hard to help people see that are not saved how easy it is to be saved. There is no 'ritual' there is a prayer. And when He enters your heart, you know it, you feel it, He guides you, He helps you see spiritual things in a much clearer way than before you are saved. I don't want to scare anyone in to being saved though. I want people to be saved because they love God. I'm not really sure you can scare anyone into accepting any belief, even Christianity. Preachers do preach hell, fire and brimstone, but that's not a scary thing if you are saved. The devil can't touch people who are saved. Shades, from the depths of my heart, I want those who are not saved to be saved. I don't want anyone to die without God. I lost my uncle, he was 53 years old, this past April. He never set foot in church, would not talk about God at all, and was a drunk. I hate to say it that way, but it's true, even if he is my uncle. I love him very much. And my hope is that God dealt with him and he accepted Christ there in his house that morning before he died. I just don't want others to have that fear that I have about my uncle going to hell. My entire family feels this way. It's so easy to be saved. Although you do see how you can be attacked by those who aren't if you get saved and try to share God's Word. But in the end, you'd know it's worth it if just one person is saved for something you may have shared with them. Shades, I just care for people's souls. And it seems so often on here that no one can see that those on here who are saved and try to share that get ganged up on and attacked. Maybe we aren't the most perfect messengers God has, but we do try. We are human, so we may not present it like every single person wants it. But because we don't say everything PC, doesn't mean it's not true. We don't think we are better than anyone else. We are not feeling we are self-righteous. I have tried many ways on here to share what I feel about this subject. I have seen many others doing the same. But because we tell things about the Bible, we get attacked. I often wonder if people think we tell about God for no reason. We don't. That would be a waste of our time. And why would we want to make enemies. I never want enemies. The reason I can't see it as scary is because it's so easy to make the decision to be saved, so why all the fuss about 'scary'? Make the decision and it's made. End of story. You eternity is set. Why people don't want that confuses me so much. Is it that they don't want to give up things of the world? They don't want the comfort of God through anything you go through? None of that makes any sense to me because I have it, so I know what it means and what it is. And we spend day after day trying to explain it to people because we love their souls and want them to be in Heaven. We get trashed day after day, yet we continue to share God. Why do people think we do this? Why did Jesus die? Why is up there getting mansions ready if we are not going to be called up there with Him like He said would do? I just don't want it to be too late for anyone. After you are dead or the rapture happens, it's too late. There won't be another chance for those who have heard/read how to be saved to make a decision then. I had rather live my life like there is a God and find out different after I die, than live my life like there isn't a God and find that out after I'm dead. I can't understand why so many people don't want the love and everything God has to offer. It's right there for the taking. His hand is out to anyone who will take it. No one has to be scared because His offer for salvation is for every single person on earth who wants it. He loves you, He loves me, He loves every single person ever on this earth. I don't understand why people don't love Him back after He's done so much for us. He gave His only Son to die so that we could be saved. How many people would do that for you?


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

I have been following the comments in this hub. A little about my background I am a 25 year old single hindu girl from India. Now when I was 10 years old I once gave tea to a domestic helper working in our great grandma(my mother's grandmother) village in a regular cup that we all use after she finished her work. My great grandma didn't see it but when that lady returned the cup my great grandma saw it. She told me never to give her tea in that cup since she was christian and must be eating meat hence her mere touch is enough to "pollute" us. I told this incident to my dad and he said not to argue with people who have fixed and narrow opinions. Its not true and we all are equal.

In the households where meat is consumed they never dare to touch beef as its considered the highest sin next to consuming a human being. My great grandmother was such a staunch vegetarian who believed that even association of people who consume meat should be to the minimum if one wants to go to heaven and she would quote hindu scriptures which prescribe the punishments and sins one incurs if one consumes meat.

I have been a vegetarian till I was 17 but I had some christian and muslim friends in Undergrad. Somehow once I tasted fish cutlet at their place and I liked it and then on and off used to consume fish, chicken and mutton. I told this to my dad but he said if your conscience permits it then so be it. My mother also came to know (I guess my father told her) and she started praying that all the negative karma be washed away and nothing untoward should happen to me. I don't know early this year somehow I myself lost all inclination and taste totally again became a vegetarian.

In India like my great grandmother who has such a tunnel vision is she justified? What about those hundreds of tribal in remote jungles where no missionary can ever reach? If I say the father in heaven is "vishnu" (whom hindu's consider the source of all sources) only those who believe in "vishnu" is going to heaven or whatever after life results are attributed to various religions then is that justified.

Each person is justified to believe in what they consider to be right for themselves but when they talk for all of us then that isn't justified. It is so true "many mansions of my Father's house" but somehow people who feel their own faith maybe diminshed if others have an equal opportunity then thats not fair.

Hindus mostly believe certain karmic actions(avoiding meat, intoxication, illicit sex, gambling) leads to reincarnation (which can even be into animal forms) but if I keep rubbing this down the throats of my colleagues who like to eat steak will they like it.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Uh, what was the purpose of Noah's Ark? Wasn't it to kill all those who didn't beleive and Satan and his army of angels? Then how's come they got to come back. How could they if they were all drowned?

I profess the Bible and I get condoned by other like you ASU--where is the logic in that! Please read my hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Churchs-Techniques-In-...

I am not trying to be mean or angry or condescending or even against the Bible or Jesus--that is your doing and belief.

We hear your story about being saved--but you know you can bring a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

Tell me where in the Bible that Jesus took away the sins of just a few when he died on that cross? Where did he tell you that it was just for you? I remembver it saying he died for EVERYONE and ALL sines were forgiven.


Leta S 8 years ago

You see, ASU, SB is kind of like you in some ways--he'd also really like you to see 'OUR' (for lack of a better term, because we've got people of all persuasions here debating) way of looking at things, logically. (And admittedly, he is bored! I actually wonder how many of even the 'saved' Christians are also there, so that is why they are hanging on, fighting.)

The thing, SB, that maybe you have to ask yourself is why you think many of 'us' are not saved, through our beliefs... I, for one, have never revealed my persuasion in spirituality, if you noticed.

I also feel like a lot of this for you may be a cultural thing (?), given where you are from, etc.... Trust me, living in even different areas of the United States, even, there are different kinds of cultures and ways of looking at things, religion is just one of them, ie... And sorry about your uncle-I agree it is sad if he didn't lead decent life-he probably missed a lot.

Shades, man-- I don't think they pretend not to get it, I think for some other reason they don't 'see' your explanation. It's all about the 'other,' being the other for them, seeing us as the 'other,' etc.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 8 years ago

Countrywomen, your father is a wise and tolerant man as you are as well.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Ralph - Thanks for the compliment. In case of my dad it is justified but in my case I am way too ignorant, short tempered, moody to be considered wise...LOL


Leta S 8 years ago

Countrywomen-

I think tolerance is a wise trait in anybody!


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Lita - Tolerance is a very broad term. I tend to be tolerant of my shortcomings but Iam strict about my expectations from others. There are certain things I would like to work on before I myself consider myself wise. I can cheat anybody in this world but I can't myself. I may "appear" tolerant and wise to others but in my heart I know what Iam hence although it feels nice to receive such compliments but they aren't justified about me atleast not yet.


Lionswhelp 8 years ago

We are now entering for the 2nd time of the Days of Noah and the coming of the Son of Man, Matthew 24:37. Many false Christs are already here. Satan and his demons are spirit and did not get put away at Noah's flood. He and his demons will be put away for a period of 1,000 years. Then after the Millenium he will be allowed back on the earth to deceive some more humans. Then he wil be put away forever.

If Satan and his demons had been put away already we would not be living a hell on earth now. Jesus and Christians win Satan, his demons and un-repentant sinners lose. Then real life will finally be here. No more dying, crying , pain nor suffering . Laughter and Endless life eternal will the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Leta S 8 years ago

CW: OK, :) Well, I think looking to one's self first in improving is both honest and wise.

But I understand what you are saying, absolutely, as well.


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Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Allshookup,

First, I'd like to say that I appreciate the kindness that you are extending, both in your intentions and in the way you comport yourself in this thread.  Thank you for that respect.

I read the words you wrote, and think that the heart of the matter for me lies in an evaluation of what you said when you put down the following lines:

"Shades, God gives us all free will. I guess my question to you would be: Why would anyone not want to be saved? Why would anyone make that choice to go to hell? I have tried so hard to help people see that are not saved how easy it is to be saved."

I think where this starts to get muddled up (and perhaps at times heated) is the use of the word "saved."  The way I understand your use of the word "saved" it means having done the ritual (you said it's just a prayer, which is fine, for me any religious activity that has regularity and form is a ritual, so please bear with that, I mean no disrespect) of asking for Jesus to be your saviour, or something very close to that.  If someone does this prayer and asks the right forgiveness and has the right attitude etc., however that works exactly, they become "saved."  I believe this is a fair, if over-simplified understanding.  Then, according to what you wrote, if they do this they have made the choice of being saved.  To NOT do this is to have "made the choice to go to hell" according to how I read what you wrote.

So, as long as I believe what you say the Bible says (as opposed to what many, many other expert Bible scholars say... remember, I'm an outsider so I have no way of distinguishing which Bible scholar is right and which ones are deceived by Satan and preaching false Gospel or are just too stupid to know what they are reading etc. ... I'm just poor soul seeking what's true in world full of preachers and religions), as long as I choose your version over all the thousands of other certain truths I am receiving from other humans just as convinced as you are and just as convincing, I am "saved" by your definition.  If I "make the choice" to believe you and your belief system, I have chosen correctly.

However, if I do NOT choose the belief system you are certain is true, then you are saying that my not believing you is equal to my having "made the choice to go to hell."

Making a choice is an action, requiring volition or free will as you have said.  The problem I have with your take is that you impose a choice on people that they don't actually make.  You say that if they don't choose to believe as you do about being "saved" by your definition then they have chosen to go to hell.

But that's not quite accurate.  In fact, if you look in there, there are actually two choices as defined by your own words.  There is 1) the choice to accept being saved through the methods you describe, and there is 2) the choice to go to hell.  Those two are not actually connected unless you have already become a believer like you are ASU.

For the rest of us still seeking enlightenment and asking questions, the choice you give us is actually why we can't accept what you say, because the choice you gives us has a consequence that is not true.  If I don't choose to believe you, I have not chosen to go to hell:  I have chosen not to believe you.  YOU are the one who then goes on to say I have chosen to go to hell.  I have not chosen that.  With my free will I have NOT said, "I choose to go to hell." I have only chosen not to believe what you are telling me.

It's like if I said, "If you do not choose to wear a blue shirt, then you have chosen to wear a red one."  You might say, "No I haven't; I've only chosen not to wear a blue one."  But then I can say, "Well, I have a holy book that says that anyone who chooses not to wear blue has chosen to wear red."  When you point out to me, well, I might not have decided what color shirt I'm going to wear, I can say, too bad, my book says that if you don't choose blue, you chose red.  That's the only option. When you then put on a yellow shirt, I can see the error of my statement (and holy book). Unfortunately, with spiritual stuff, there is no yellow shirt to tangibly put on, so religions get to make claims like my blue shirt one because there aren't any yellow shirts to prove them wrong. However, there also aren't any red shirts that can be physically manifest to prove anything either. In fact, there aren't even any blue shirts other than the fact that I can assure you I have a blue shirt that is the best. I can't actually show it to you, but I can bring forth some other people with my same holy book who will all tell you that blue shirts are definately the best.

I hope that makes sense.  That's where the problem lies for many people.  The choice is not one of "being saved" or "going to hell" its more like "believing this one set of explanations about what the bible means" or "looking at other ideas too."  Which you might still say is the same thing as choosing to go to hell, but I hope you can at least see that we are not actually chosing to go to hell, we are chosing not to believe your particular version of how it all works out. You may say there is no difference, but the difference is huge if you care to take the time to see it.

(And Lita, we'll see. I'm trying to be very concise to at least illustrate the point clearly to see if anyone can actually at least hear it and restate it in a way that suggests actual willingness to understand.)


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

"If you do not choose to wear a blue shirt, then you have chosen to wear a red one."  You might say, "No I haven't; I've only chosen not to wear a blue one."  But then I can say, "Well, I have a holy book that says that anyone who chooses not to wear blue has chosen to wear red."  When you point out to me, well, I might not have decided what color shirt I'm going to wear, I can say, too bad, my book says that if you don't choose blue, you chose red.  That's the only option"

Plus

"Making a choice is an action, requiring volition or free will as you have said.  The problem I have with your take is that you impose a choice on people that they don't actually make.  You say that if they don't choose to believe as you do about being "saved" by your definition then they have chosen to go to hell".

What a great explanation of how many of us feel Shades!

And as I quoted in my recent hub about the 'Pre-trib Rapture' theory:

"What Defines Being 'Saved'?

This is another quandary, as the Bible tends to be somewhat vague on this point.

Paul generally wrote that people are saved as a result of believing in the resurrection of Jesus.

The author(s) of the Gospel of John said that one must believe that Jesus is the Son of God in order to be saved.

Jesus, as reported in the synoptic Gospels, appears to have given two main paths to salvation:

One can be saved by performing good works, or

You can be saved by adopting a simple life of poverty and following Jesus' example.

Other passages say that a person is saved, and her/his sins forgiven, through baptism

And so we have a chaotic situation today where some denominations say that salvation is attained by:

Church rituals (particularly baptism and -- in the Catholic churches -- confession),

Good works,

Belief in:

Jesus' resurrection,

Jesus status as the only begotten Son of God,

Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior,

Or by some combination of the above.

One might argue that different faith groups are all equally correct. What they have done is to concentrate on some salvation passages in the Bible, interpreting them as true. Then they either ignore other passages, interpret them symbolically, or attributing unusual meanings to them. And so, diverse faith groups end up with entirely different criteria for salvation.

In addition, Christian faith groups differ on:

Whether a person, once saved, can lose their salvation, and

Whether a non-Christian can be saved".


vrajavala profile image

vrajavala 8 years ago from Port St. Lucie

the winning number of the lottery in Illinois after the election Nov 5th was 666. But there is good news. Due to the efforts of a brillian t lawyer, Leo c. donofrio, his lawsuit questioning the eligibilty of Obambi to be POTUSA will be heard in conference by the 9 US Supreme Court Justices on Dec. 5th Anyone interested in listening to his announcement tune in at 10 PM EST http://www.lanlamphere.com/audio/livejava.php I have a short synopsis of his suit http://starmaker.today.com/2008/11/18/who-is-obamb...

the full brief can be found on donofrio's website http://blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen


Andrew Hawkley 8 years ago

Nope. It's me.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

I thought you were kidding about that IL Pick 3 Lotto ...

But on the official site, I see you were right...

http://www.illinoislottery.com/subsections/History...

Gotta tell you, I don't think he's the BIG AC ... but that's an interesting coincidence, that's for sure.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Ok, now it is a little creepy.


sandra rinck 8 years ago

I don't know, I am becoming more persuaded, you know feelin a little ill right now. I did vote for Obama and all but well to be honest I voted for him because everyone seemed so happy with him, and I didn't want mccain because of Palin which scared me more than Obama...

what if I did vote for the AC, oh snap!!! Still a stretch but after looking up that link that vraj left, well I do want to know..

Inquiring minds want to know.


Leta S 8 years ago

Guys:

1. Obama produced his birth certificate, naturalized in Hawaii. He was born in HI, making him a US citizen, unless I don't understand what I've always taken to be the law. Furthermore, this fact is quoted from credible sources--New York Times, if I recall, for one.

2. To (some, OK) biblical scholars, the story goes that the number 666 was never meant to be the number of the devil or anti christ. Seven, for some reason in early Christian doctrine, was thought of as the perfect number of God. 6 was considered imperfect, a number of man, thus making 666 very, very imperfect. Associating 666 with the devil came much later, and probably was further propagated by those scary Damien movies we all watched.


Leta S 8 years ago

To further elaborate on #2, the 666 number has been taken in the book of Revelations to mean by some scholars as the inequities of man in the Roman Empire.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

I didn't vote for either candidate. I voted for someone else entirely. We do have choices other then the two that we were given!


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

Sandra, you're OK, ... The 666 in the IL lotto is kind of interesting, and may mean "something" but certainly it is not proof that Obama is AC. What that "something" is, still thiking and praying. In any case, Fear is not from God. So, don't be afraid.


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

Totally agree with LG...I voted third party. I didn't prefer either major candidate, nor did either even remotely express my personal ideals as a president.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 8 years ago

Care to tell us about your "personal ideals?" Voting for a third or fourth party candidate is your privilege, but if you care about changing anything you are throwing your vote away.


Leta S 8 years ago

This is taken from one of the links for the challenge for Obama's citizenship:

"Even questions about his parentage have come up, with some claiming look-alikes, Frank Marshall Davis or Malcolm X to be his secret father. People note that Obamabi is taller than a typical Luo and has a different hairline. Others have investigated Frank Marshall Davis who admitted having a threesome with his wife and a teenager “Anne” in his porno book “Sex Rebel: Black”. Also there are nude pictures of Stanley Anne Dunham on the web. Not photo-shopped."

Now I ask you, please! Is this a credible source? It's defamation.


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

I see it as a function of religions that they allow people to defend themselves from danger with constructs like 'Antichrist'.  My first point is great use the construct, but can't we transcend to a higher level and get him on the ideas?  OK, I admit the Antichrist method is more fun.  If he really is this evil maybe it would do America some good to see the left for what it has become.  Drifting slowly towards socialism with the republicans in charge was far more dangerous.


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Sandra don't get upset. The way I see it after reading all of the above ( btw I'm wearing a blue/green checkered red shirt with yellow sash) the "Satan" is so clever that He would have a bit each way and both Candidates would be the antichrist! So it would not have mattered one iota who you voted for!


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Wow! There was a great episode of Tales of the Darkside in the 1980s, starring Carol Kane and Bud Cort, where the Cort chose 666, but Kane, the winner chose 667. Very creepy episode!


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

Ralph, personal ideals are personal. While I like a few of Obama's policy plans, I dislike some of his others. There was virtually nothing I liked about McCain. I don't think it's throwing anything, but that's what the media's been spewing for a long, long time as the only option. Frankly, neither major party is changing anything as it is...


sixtyorso profile image

sixtyorso 8 years ago from South Africa

According to geo cities.com and other sources the origin of 666 as the devils number is as follows:

'

Origins of 666

The idea of the Triple God/dess has existed well before the beginnings of Christianity. The Christian God also holds the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit, mirroring a religious aspect that dates well into the beginnings of solidified Pantheons.

The Christian God is said to create the world in 6 days on the 7th he rests. On the six day is the creation of man.

"And God went on to say: 'Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.' And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him; male and female he created them."-Genesis 1:26, 27."

So we can see how the number of man is 6, being created on the Sixth day.

The Devil/Satan is label through history as the God of Flesh or something very similar depending on who/where you hear it. The God of Flesh is therefore also the God of Man, not of Christian man but of everyother man. Because the Devil is a "God" his number holds the Trinity aspect... being the Trinity God of Man, and Man's number being 6... the Devil's number becomes 666!

Dont shoot the messenger. just providing some interesting info


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

"Does anyone have a clue as to the reason why the likes of Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, George Soros, Donald Trump and all the other rich people support Barack Obama instead of John McCain and the Republican Party.  What do they gain by it?  The only reason I can think of is that Obama can be bought to serve the rich guys and make more money for them, whereas John McCain cannot be bought."

I think it's part of being an elite now in America.  Fitting in with the crowd.  It's also part of getting along with the leftist media.  But I have another reason.

I apply this reason to Soros but probably also works for the others.  If your like Soros you want to be rich.  Now paper doesn't mean anything.  It's about relative wealth and power compared to others.  As I point out in my other articles socialism increases inequalities.  The very rich having struggled to obtain their money they still want more power and affluence.  The only way they can do it is by pushing others down even more.  It doesn't do any good for Soros to double his money yet again, but if he can half yours his power relative to you increases.  EVEN if his also decreases by half.  Why: he is still rich and can buy the same as before but you can't.  Socialism although it is about increasing equality ALWAYS increases inequality.  So that's the answer.  Elites aren't elites because they don't want to be elites but because they do and they know socialism increases their power.

 


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

I can hardly believe that this hub is still rumbling on. It's got a life of its own!


sandra rinck 8 years ago

Yeah, it's fun Amanda :)

No, I am not actaully really scared or upset about Obambi, the stories are creepy though. Last night I was watching monster quest, so now I am more afraid of a Octopus Gigantius coming out of the sea to devour mankind. lol

Thanks for ya'lls concern, I am a bit of a weakling when it comes to scary stuff, you know check under the bed for gremlins and all...

I have also heard so many things about the origin of 666, which some other scholar on hubpages, I foget the name said that the number was never 666 anyways, I think she said something like 616. Anyways, just another piece of the tampered biblical puzzle that will continue to "decieve" anyone who reads it.

If anyone wanted to talk about why everyone will be "saved" well let's just say, if you are only going by the bible and that bible being the word of God and whatever your bible happens to say is the truth... I suggest getting a few translations and compare becacuse someone or ( your god) is lying to you.

No offense ASU or Arkwriter, I have more trust in my personal relationship with God ( My Heavenly Imaginary Friend). I think everyone should and I don't need to know about it because chances are I would make fun of you, not mock as in something bad, but fun as in hey buddy I am gonna tie your shoe laces together just to see you fall so I can lmao because that is what friends are for.

Or I may be a really bad friend but whatever they come back :)


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

I think this satirically points out the difference between Christians and Christianists:

http://tinyurl.com/onionchr

I'm familiar with both, but have a strong preference for the former.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 8 years ago

Don't we all (nearly all)?


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Wow Livelonger, I just read your link, and that woman is truly over the top. She seems to be more whacky than she herself realises, I mean:

"I believe in the basic teachings of the Bible and the church. Divorce is forbidden. A woman is to be an obedient subordinate to the male head of the household. If a man lieth down with another man, they shall be taken out and killed."

or

" The people in my church, for the most part, are perfectly ordinary Americans like you and me. They believe in the simple old-fashioned traditions—Christmas, Easter, the slow and deliberate takeover of more and more county school boards to get the political power necessary to ban evolution from textbooks statewide. That sort of thing."

(That is really strange, especially as Christmas and Easter are both Pagan festivals originally. As for the evolution comment, did she do science at school?? There is no other likely explanation for how animals evolved.)

and finally:

"We oppose gay marriage as an abomination against the laws of God and America, we're against gun control, and we fervently and unwaveringly believe that the Jews, Muslims, and all on earth who are not born-again Pentecostalists are possessed by Satan and should be treated as such.

When it comes down to it, all we want is to see every single member of the human race convert to our religion or else be condemned by a jealous and wrathful God to suffer an eternity of agony and torture in the Lake of Fire!

I hope I've helped set the record straight, and I wish you all a very nice day! God bless you!"

This women needs help!!!


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I think the article was highly satirical...at least it seems so to me.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Misty - yes, it's satire. But, as we've all seen, sometimes satire does too good a job at mirroring reality.

Ralph - not everyone, apparently!


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Hi T, Golly, it had better be or there is no hope for us left. What worries me is that there are people out there that really do think like this!!!


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Hi livelonger, thanks for putting my mind at rest, but as you said, 'sometimes satire does too good a job at mirroring reality".

A worrying thought!


t.keeley profile image

t.keeley 8 years ago from Seattle, WA

I know. I just linked this hub to my facebook and a bunch of my more "fundie" friends flipped out at me for even posting it. I feel more people will be leaving my friend lsit...oh well, their loss if they won't see the hilarity of their own religio-political agenda. I'm all for eprsonal standards, don't get me wrong, whether you're pro-choice or pro-life, whatever the case...I just prefer people keep non-biblical arguments to themselves.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear allshookup,

I do appreciate your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.  I read your Hub “Did We As Christians Elect Obama? Does he owe us a 'Thank You'?  You have an interesting theory.  I would like to comment on it!

There is a reason why God would allow Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) to be the president of the United States.  It is not to bring Americans back to Him, but to judge America.

BHO was chosen by the American people by a democratic process, just like King Saul.  Israel wanted a king just like other nations and God told Samuel to warn the people what kind of person Saul would turn out to be (1 Sam. 8:6-22)  Saul turned out to be a very bad king just as God had said.  America has been warned about what kind of person BHO is and yet they elected him.

Saul was tall, dark and handsome and “a mighty man of power” (1 Sam. 9:1-2).  BHO has good looks much like Saul’s, and he will bring down America like Saul had brought down Israel.

"O Israel, you are destroyed, but your help is from Me.  I will be your King; Where is any other, that he may save you in all your cities?  And your judges to whom you said, 'Give me a king and princes?  I gave you a king in My anger, and took him away in My wrath." (Hosea 13:9-11)

God says to Israel, "You are destroyed" and here is another statement from Him, "I gave you a king in My anger,"  God is saying the same to America, "You are destroyed"  and "I gave you BHO in My anger."

In the next four years America will go through a very difficult period of time called the Great Tribulation (Mt. 24:21-22).  I just heard on the TV that the stock market has gone down very much since BHO won the election on November 4, 2008.  We are already in a recession.  Economists have warned us that it may turn into a depression, just like in the 30’s.  First, the bank failures, then the insurance companies, now the auto industry.  They all need bailouts.  What is next?

If BHO is not the Antichrist, then who is he?  What is he besides having a family  with a wife who wasn’t proud of America until her husband ran for president, or two girls who want to have puppies?  .  Do you want to know what kind of tribulation BHO will cause America to go through?

For starters, there are several lawsuits against BHO’s eligilibility as the President.  Two of them will be heard in the U.S. Supreme Court on December 5, 2008.  http://therightperspective.com/wordpress/?p=349

Can you imagine if the U.S. Supreme Court votes against BHO there will be riots all over America?   It is going to be very bad.  America don’t have a prayer, because the people brought it all on themselves.

If you are not a Christian right now, go and ask God to guide you and pray in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you.  Ask Jesus to come into your heart.  If you are already a Christian pray for your loved ones, relatives, friends and neighbors.  Judgment is coming to America.

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

This, my friends and debate-buddies alike, is the reason why I don't prescribe to the "Christian" faith. I am saddened to see representatives of any religion behaving in a manner which appears to lack sanity or logic.

arkwriter, please seek out counseling of some sort. I worry about you.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Dear Sir,

Since you are elder to me I don't want to offend you but I would like to sincerely disagree with you " I just heard on the TV that the stock market has gone down very much since BHO won the election on November 4, 2008. We are already in a recession."

The stock market was falling even before Barack was elected on Nov 4th. Now coming to the question of recession it is now an accepted fact that when clinton left the govt we had a surplus and when Bush Jr. would leave then we would have a huge deficit.

Whatever else you may feel whether going to Iraq was right or wrong. The housing policy and so on the above ground reality can't be disputed as they have been accepted by everybody.

I hope you don't take this personally and I apologize if I said anything to hurt you sir.

Thanks,

CW


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

Country girl, thanks for your comments.  I think on the stock market you are correct it has been going down for a year about.  Of course, it did just finally crash possibly partially as a result of predicted election results.  What I can say is look at it from a bigger picture.  Many policies of socialism were implemented during the republican administration.  This is what is ultimately leading to the financial crisis.  If Obama takes power it just dramatically accelerates the process.  But these things take decades to unfold.  I also advise you to look at the total spending of government.  This is the cause of the deficit and the societal erosion.  If Obama is the Antichrist (not exactly my theory) then it's because he can deceive the Americans into allowing this gradual destruction of our society for the benefit of a few corrupt elites like George Soros.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

I hate to have to tell you this, folks, but God is not remotely interested in American politics. God is an Englishman and only watches cricket.


h2 8 years ago

Americans have got to be the dumbest people on the planet to elect Obama as President. Not only does he NOT have any qualifications (except for a measly 143 days in the US senate) and completely inexperienced, but his middle name is HUSSIEN (ahem, Sadam) and last name is only one letter off from OSAMA (hello, Binladen). Who would of thought the a US president would bear those names especially after what happened in 911. Supid, stupid, STUPID Americans! You guys definately are going to get what you deserve for electing this disaster waiting to happen.


h2 8 years ago

Americans have got to be the dumbest people on the planet to elect Obama as President. Not only does he NOT have any qualifications (except for a measly 143 days in the US senate) and completely inexperienced, but his middle name is HUSSIEN (ahem, Sadam) and last name is only one letter off from OSAMA (hello, Binladen). Who would of thought the a US president would bear those names especially after what happened in 911. Supid, stupid, STUPID Americans! You guys definately are going to get what you deserve for electing this disaster waiting to happen.


jdh351 profile image

jdh351 8 years ago from Chicago, IL

I don't understand the fear, although I have heard some fear circulating among gun owners. I heard that many gun enthusiasts are buying weapons like they are going out of style. There was a news special about how gun sales have increased since the election of Barack Obama. Apparently, people are fearing legislation increasing gun control laws.

I don't own a gun but I believe in the right to own one. Hopefully this won't change constitutional rights.


bk 8 years ago

you clearly have too much time on your hands if you're writing this rubbish. if you are truly christian why don't you spend your time helping others rather than spreading wild accusation and hatred?


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

This hub has to be seen to be believed! Since when did America become the Land of Milk and Honey? If God has a plan, it is for humanity as a whole, not just one terminally deluded segment of it! I wasn't going to keep looking at this hub, but it's like one of those soap operas, the plotline is so ridiculous, that you can't help but follow it to see where it's going to go next!


sandra rinck 8 years ago

I think it was Marrisue who wrote a hub about electing Obama and I was considering that he would get assasintated, not only because of the 20 year curse, look it up if you don't know what it is, but also because of astrology and the number of people like Arkwriter who seem to hate him.

I said, I can't vote for Obama because I don't want him to get shot. It is like setting him up to get himself annihillated. Well many of the commentors said, look you are concerned and have every reason to be, but you can't let something that is out of your control drive you to vote for something bad.

I needed to vote one way or the other. I would have voted for a third party or some random person, but just as one of the commentors on this hub said: it would have been a wasted voted.

I consider that I did the right thing and made the right choice but with all this talk going on about this president who is human like you and me, who wants to make a change etc... you want to hurt him? Why?

Christians are notorious for making good things really bad and ultimately doing what is really, really bad because you don't have any trust in anything and all this babble about evil over takes your minds to the point that it is not the work of God being good, it is the work of the people stacked againts a story that is 2000 years old.

Arkwriter, there isn't anything wrong with his children wanting a puppy. It's a puppy! Your arguments get more bizzar. I think the bigger warning was from God who said in the 10 commandments that thou shall not bare false witness.

This is exactly what you are doing and because of this, you and those like you are going to get this innocent, decent, God loving, family man who ran for president to help make a change, killed. And you cannot blame it on deception of the Devil and you cannot blame it on the people who voted for him.

However you can blame it on people like yourself for setting this good guy up to be bad. His name is just a name. Then again you must think that anyone named Judas is evil too right?


Rob Jundt profile image

Rob Jundt 8 years ago from Midwest USA

Wow, this has to be one of the most-read and commented-on hubs I've seen in a while.

Here's my 1 3/4 cents (deflation you know) worth...

Is there an antichrist? Yes, there is... everything we place as constants in our lives (be it money, food, status, etc.) other than God can be argued to be an antichrist and therefore idolatrous.

Secondly... is Obama the anichrist? I doubt it... in fact, if we use "my" literal interpretation, we're all busted!

This is why we live under God's COMMON GRACE!

People, allow cooler heads to prevail. All is under control! Stop waving theological red banners! Please!

As for me, I do believe the antichrist spoken of in the books of Daniel and Revelation will come to pass. But not now... But hey, I could be wrong. I just have a strong distaste for any biblical date-placing.

God's timing is NOT our timing. All I want to do is be prepared for when the real time shows up!

Arkwriter, I love your passion for the LORD. I really do! I simply feel we have a different way of looking at this topic.

A great example of God's overarching sovereignty comes from Psalm 82:1b

"He judges in the midst of the rulers." NASB

Blessings to all! Sit back and enjoy the creation!

RJ


Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly 8 years ago from St. Louis

Wow! An entire conversation from last night is gone. I was deleted with Mark Knowles. I've made the big time! Proud to be in your company, Mark. So, Arkwriter, there was nothing rude or sinister in my comments.  I just said that while you believers are always telling us (good-looking people) to "show our proof", when you are asked the same you point to the bible claiming it is truth, which it cannot be proven to be.  Are you so defensive of your faith? I guess you are.

Perhaps you should find a belief you are more confident about.


JazLive profile image

JazLive 8 years ago from Decatur

You have survived. The financial anti is leaving in January 2009. http://www.qassia.com/bush-flags


Rik Ravado profile image

Rik Ravado 8 years ago from England

Wow - the 666 video said it all! What childish nonsense.

You finally have a decent president elect and you declare him the anti-Christ. What is wrong with you people? As a Christian I suggest you beware of false prophecy. Judge not least you be judged!


pks1967 profile image

pks1967 8 years ago from IL, USA

What a silly piece this is. Believe in whoever you want. If you're a good and decent person than everything will be OK.

Buddah was around long before Christ. Why should everyone have to believe in only the christian religion for salvation? And salvation from what? A made up heaven or hell? Use your heads people. There is no such thing. Christ or Antichrist, what nonsense. Just look around you right this second. Now is all there is. Do you see any heaven, hell, christ or antichrist?

And while I follow the teachings of the Buddah, I don't worship him in any way. I just am. That's all there is.

Wake up from this silly dream.


sunforged profile image

sunforged 8 years ago from Sunforged.com

I cant believe this is still going? Yeah its fun to watch the guy on the corner rant fire and brimstone, shake his cardboard picket sign spelling our impending doom, but eventually the light turns green and you keep driving.

Dont worry that crazy guy will still be there tomorrow and the next day and teh day after that with the same half baked ideas - Im still disgusted at that moronic 666 video - did you attempt to learn anything about hebrew numerology yet -

poor form


Rik Ravado profile image

Rik Ravado 8 years ago from England

Ark writer - Are you suggesting that Obama is the anti-Christ because his daughters want puppies?  How can you as a Christian say such awful things?  What happened to the gospel of grace and love?

Are you suggesting Bush is a better human being than Obama - Could this be about racial origins? Is it wrong to care about the environment or to want to help poor Americans with better health care?


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions, Jeremiah 17:9-10.

The red shirts and the blue shirts follow the ways that will end in death, Proverbs 14:25. The New World Order is that way. The merchants of the earth who are the illuminati, Rosicrucians, Gnostics, Freemason and religious orders like them etc,etc.. Have raised up their blue and red heroes to deceive you!

God cares for us a whole lot and will put an end to human misrule. Cricket will not get it done. But Jesus Christ will, Matthew 24:22.

Stay awake and keep watch, Matthew 24:42. Will you be ready or are you being fouled by the teachings of men, Matthew 15:7-9.

666 is the number of the 'Beast' in Revelation 13:9-18 & 17:7-8,12-14. This is not the false messiah. The false messiah is the religious leader who sits in the temple of God and says he is God, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 & Rev. 18:4-8.

Humans have some strange ideas but God is true, Listen to Jesus and the Holy Spirit then you cannot be fooled.

The Lionswhelp


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Rik Ravado wrote:

“Ark writer - Are you suggesting that Obama is the anti-Christ because his daughters want puppies?”

Arkwriter responds:

The anti-christ has nothing to do with Obama’s daughters wanting puppies.  The reason I wrote it is to show that the anti-christ can lead a normal life just like any of us, but when he is possessed by Satan he becomes evil.  Judas Iscariot is the first anti-christ.  Jesus called him “son of perdition” the title given to the anti-christ (Jn. 17:12; ref. 2 Thes. 2:3).  Satan entered Judas while he was eating the Passover with Jesus and the other eleven apostles and none of them knew about it (Jn. 13:21-30).

Rik Ravado wrote:

How can you as a Christian say such awful things?  What happened to the gospel of grace and love?Are you suggesting Bush is a better human being than Obama - Could this be about racial origins? Is it wrong to care about the environment or to want to help poor Americans with better health care?

Arkwriter responds:

Again, the anti-christ has absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote: 

Here are the four important characteristics of the Antichrist that we can learn from the above verses.

A. There are "many antichrists" and not just one as some modern-day eschatologists believe and teach.

B. The"antichrists" have already existed in the First Century.

C. The "antichrists" have left the Christian Church. They were never saved.

D. The "antichrist" is a great "deceiver".

"Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn. 2:22-23)

Please read my hub again and understand the reason why Barack Obama is the anti-christ is because he has denied the Lord Jesus Christ is the One and only Savior (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12)

May God bless you,

Arkwriter


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

{{Please read my hub again and understand the reason why Barack Obama is the anti-christ is because he has denied the Lord Jesus Christ is the One and only Savior (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12)}}

If your heaven is to be filled with such small-minded bigotry as this, you are welcome to it. I hope you'll be happy there.


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

I think some of the criticisms of Arkwriter are a bit unfair.  He is engaged in a fairly thoughtful and consistent religious interpretation.  Aren't you libs out there the ones who are supposedly tolerant?  I don't see it.  You lefties supposedly believe that different points of view can all be correct?  Or that there isn't even right and wrong just whatever someone wants to believe for themselves?  So why are you now trying to say Arkwriter is wrong?  Isn't it just his own point of view?  I say your inconsistent.  Arwriter is sticking to the story.  He backs up everything he says with scripture, and he is doing well to not get diverted by your personal attacks and insults.  Maybe they do come from the devil??  Ha, I don't think so unless its all a metaphor.  But one comment on something:  The main substantive claim seems to be that Obama is a great deceiver.  On that I think Arwriter is correct.  So isn't it reasonable that he should apply the religion he believes in to that situation?


goldentoad 8 years ago

I think any talk of this is a pathway to fear. I think people would best be served if people would talk about the hope rather than the comparing this to the end times. I lost my job today, but its only a chapter, not the end of a book. Its the same for the economy and our state in the world- its only a chapter too. We have some good times and some bad times but don't tell me its the end of time. You did a good job at provoking a response, but this thinking is part of the old guard of politics and religion and its time to go forward with ideas that will work rather than installing fear to stop ideas.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Berrtus - Arkwriter has chosen a very public place to claim that a man with a young family is the antichrist. Did he consider the effect this could have on Obama's daughters if they happened on this abominable hub? Hubpages is a popular web destination. Free speech, which bigots always appeal to, was never meant as a license to spread hate. Religious freedom is not a license to pass judgment on those whose views do not exactly coincide. Also consider this - if you believe someone is the antichrist, you must also believe his elimination would be a service to humanity. Do you see where this is leading? It is not a road we want to go down, having been there before. Hate mongers (and Arkwriter is one) are not to be encouraged. They are dangerous.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Goldentoad - I like your screen name! And agree with your comment. Good luck in finding a new job, if that is what you want to do.


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

Well I was trying to modify my previous comment a bit not comfortable with my 'lefties' name calling but my computer has a virus (I think) very slow.  I suppose you could argue that Arwriter is engaged in a personal attack after all he is claiming Obama is the Antichrist.  But that may be a conclusion.  That is he is not using the attack to make a conclusion rather it is his conclusion based on his interpretation of scripture.  I do see Obama as a great deceiver and I see many people either part of the machine or being manipulated by it.  It is very similar to the events in the Bible Arkwriter refers to, other times when many were misled.  I do believe great 'evil' will happen to our nation on account of it so its hard for me to condemn Arwriter.  That said I see your point on the implications of his claim.  But I would say it's a claim that can be made.  I don't think Arkwriter is a bigot I think he is interpreting the bible.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

That's all very well, but if someone's interpretation of the bible leads them to inhumane conclusions, rather than promulgate such conclusions they should instead at least entertain the possibility that they are mistaken. In this case, Arkwriter must realise that the vast majority of the human race would wholly reject his opinion. Should this not give him cause to think, to reconsider? Or does he so disrespect his fellow creatures that he feels free to disregard their views? Is this not arrogance?


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

I think often the masses are deceived.  History proves that.  I respect disagreeing with the masses and think those who do it offer humanity a last chance to think.  However, I don't think calling Obama the Antichrist is going to be a modern day solution.  Maybe arkwriter isnt allowing the media to influence his views maybe he is sticking to the his interpretation of the bible.  I say if it's his interpretation just leave it at that.  If it's really nonsense we should dismiss it, but there is something captivating about it.  I think it's a case where 2,000 years ago Arwriters approach would apply.  Maybe today it's best regarded as metaphor.  There is something to it consider how people are drawn to this hub.  Here is my take: We SHOULDN'T CALL OBAMA THE ANTICHRIST.  We are beyond that we should find some substantive arguments after all if he is the Antichrist we ought to be able to get him on the substance.  If we can't we need to start thinking until we can.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

I've got a better idea. We give the guy a break. Let him assemble his team. Let him take office. Then let's see how he fares. He has earned the right for that much at least.

Regarding 'the masses', I did not use that phrase, which is generally a pejorative term for the less educated. I used the term 'the vast majority of the human race' which includes thinking people whom you cannot dismiss as 'deceived' just because they disagree with you.


sunforged profile image

sunforged 8 years ago from Sunforged.com

NO! His  IDIOTIC inclusion of that (can i swear on hubpages) bovine feces numerology video totally invalidates any claims he would have as a legitimate scholar - opinions based on ignorance should be reviled and put in their place-maybe Obama is the anti-christ, but this particular author does not have the understanding of biblical scholarship to make such a claim.

He is making an argument: when holes that invalidate the argument are so obvious, the rest becomes moot

and yes such ideas are dangerous, protected yes, but idiots and fanatics have caused great damage to man over the length of history

Arkwriter believes in an angry vengeful God, this is evidenced by his comments-that same angry god would punish you (arkwriter)for your judgements against his other creations-i dont believe in your conception but following your illogic

your screwed

Judge not,less your ready for judgement (bob marley)

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (matthew)

Happy is the person who finds fault with himself instead of finding fault with others. (islamic proverb)

The vile are ever prone to detect the faults of others, though they be as small as mustard seeds, and persistently shut their eyes against their own, though they be as large as Vilva fruit. (hindu proverb)

Confucius said, "The gentleman calls attention to the good points in others; he does not call attention to their defects. The small man does just the reverse of this."

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; as it is written,

As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me

and every tongue shall confess to God.


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

Here's the part I disagree with: "Or does he so disrespect his fellow creatures that he feels free to disregard their views? Is this not arrogance?" If your going to say we can't disagree with the majority you've taken a mistaken point of view. The 'masses' including the educated elites are either decieved misguided or just plain wroing. Please see my article that explains at least the psychology of the very rich.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Berrtus - a great thinker with a proven track record can, with credibility, hold a view that is opposed to the vast majority. But if you think Arkwriter is in this category you are mistaken. You and he share a distaste for Obama's politics. But that isn't reason enough for you to defend nonsense.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Berrtus - Sir, In your last reply to my comment you partially agreed that the stock market was falling for a while but you then added due to the predicted results(suggesting obama as the frontrunner) the stock market crashed(without giving any weightage to the financial collapse).

You also mentioned " If Obama is the Antichrist (not exactly my theory) then it's because he can deceive the Americans into allowing this gradual destruction of our society for the benefit of a few corrupt elites like George Soros." I have few questions: In the last 8 years who benefitted more the rich or the middle class? Who is affected adversely the most is it the rich or the middle class? Is George Bush's term responsible for this or not? Was the decision to go to Iraq in anyway responsible for this economic drain or not?

George Bush Sr. when he left the govt was in deficit and Clinton turned it to a surplus and George Bush Jr. has turned it to the worst deficit (Do you agree with this or not?).

Lets see if Obama improves or not. Whether we like it or not he is the President elect and sometimes I feel some people are sort of wishing him to fail (just to be able to say I told you so). Sometimes we can be glad we are "wrong" in our assumptions for the greater good results for all of us(Don't you agree).

These are my views based on my understanding. I admire you for politely stating your views and hope you don't mind my views.

Sincerely,

CW


agvulpes profile image

agvulpes 8 years ago from Australia

Paraglider Hear hear, well said I just wish I could say that.

Now what happens in 4 years time when we are sitting down toasting the reelection of the President, do we look here for a retraction from Arkwriter and his motely crew?


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

The biblical scholars can decide if Arkwriter is great or not but he did present the interpretation well and he is right about one thing: Obama is a great deceiver.  I stick to the idea that it's fair for him to make his interpretation.  And also agree with you that the best way for the rest of us to proceed would be on another track.  Ok my computer is slower than my typing...


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Berrtus - Sir, can you elaborate "And also agree with you that the best way for the rest of us to proceed would be on another track." Right now the elections are closed and Obama is the President elect. Iam not sure what exactly you meant by that. Btw I hope your computer picks up speed soon(Did you trying killing some unwanted processes in task manager?). Its always nice to hear a rational view that disagrees with ours to form a holistic view.

Sincerely,

CW


berrtus profile image

berrtus 8 years ago from Beaverton, Oregon

Countrywoman - let me briefly answer.  I am not happy with the republicans.  They also led us down the road of socialism.  (see an article in Forbes about that)  Obama would accelerate that.  Socialism is what creates deficits, reduces economic production, increases poverty, causes corruption and generalized societal decline.  We are being deceived by the elites into following the road to destruction.  Hence I agree with Arkwriter, Obama is a great deceiver.  And one other point to think this won't end in say an average American income of maybe $33 a month is to take a viewpoint that what happened to others won't also happen to us.  It can.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Countrywomen, you're always so sweet, polite and courteous!

Berttus, Socialism has been a far more powerful influence in European politics than it ever has in America, and most of Europe is weathering the financial crisis a great deal more successfully than the USA. So how does that work then?


sunforged profile image

sunforged 8 years ago from Sunforged.com

berrtus, yeah i saw the ten posts : the great deceiver i get it...politician=deceiver thats the game, then we hope they perform close to how they say.

NO- I state as one versed in historical methods and biblical scholarship that Arkwriter is an amateur - you "berty" must respond to his inclusion of the foolish 666 video w/ an understanding of biblical numerology to merit further response.

In short - shut up troll - although i agree obama could be "a great deceiver" I just would categorize you with arkwriter as people w/ dictionaries but no ration,logic or experience

after you interest me in your response in that regards, perhaps I will begin to unravel your quilt of lies based on political history based lies.

-bye "berty"


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

duplicate comment.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Berrtus - Can you send me the link for that forbes article. You do raise some good points. But I ask you what makes you believe that Obama is going to be a socialist (Besides the Universal Health Care)?

When you said " this won't end in say an average American income of maybe $33 a month is to take a viewpoint that what happened to others won't also happen to us.  It can" Did you mean a global meltdown is affecting even US.

Btw I asked certain questions in my earlier comments do you agree/disagree with them? When someone quotes certain religious texts and then someone may commit certain acts believing these quotes and think they are doing a great "favor" to the mankind(then that's scary thought). Hence when religion is used(since then no rational proof is needed) it can lead to dangerous consequences. Already an assasination attempt on Obama has been attempted. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Sir, Iam glad to have such a polite rational discussion with you.

Sincerely,

CW


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Amanda - Thanks for all those kind words. Here in US(this is totally my personal perception and I can be wrong) since the cold war socialism = USSR = Bad. Hence a little socialism may have worked well in Europe but in US it is anathema. I agree with you world isn't made of black or white but a little of both. Hence a little socialism in certain circumstances in certain countries maynot be such a bad idea after all.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Hi Countrywomen,

Thanks for responding. I agree with you that the American perception of socialism is very different from the European one. 'Socialism' is almost a swear word in the States, it would seem! (LOL) But what I don't understand about this attitude is that it is very often the Christian Hubs that have the biggest downer on Socialism. Surely if you believe 'that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven' then you cannot possibly object to parting with a little cash via your taxes to benefit the needy and sick, and to ensure that all children and old people are adequately housed and cared for?


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Duplicate comment.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Amanda - Its good system out there. I will leave it for others to debate the relative merits/demerits in US. Have a great day. Good bye my friend.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

If socialism is so good for the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Russia) then why did that country break up?  If socialism is so good for Eastern Europe why did they break down the Berlin wall?  If socialism is so good for Cuba then why did so many Cubans risk their lives on boats to try and land on American shores? 

China tried socialism and most every one became poor except the corrupted bureacrats who were the only ones that became rich.  After China began manufacturing goods for American companies The relationship between the two countries has improved by leaps and bounds. Not only that China's economy has improved and also their GNP has increased. Why is it bad for Americans to be able to buy affordable and inexpensive goods in their stores?  Socialism is only an ideology that is practiced by the government, but capitalism is now practiced by the people. China will never go back to total socialism. Everybody is happy in a free trade world. 

Why do we blame China for our bad economy when our economic chaos started when the Democrats through Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and ACORN started the sub-prime mortgage system by getting people to own houses when they cannot afford to pay for them? That is how the American economy snowballed downhill!

Obama also wants to renegotiate NAFTA and that makes our neighbors to the North and South very unhappy.  Free trade is good for all countries.

If we want to have a good economy in America we should encourage people to work hard for a living, and not waiting for handouts from the government.  Socialism is bad for America!

As for health care there is always free services in state, county and city hospitals, except that you can't choose your own doctors, which is not that bad. 

Obama wants everyone to get free college education by lowering the standards which would make America a lower class nation.  American colleges have always awarded scholarships to students that deserve them.   Obama's equality and social justice without hard work is not good for the people. Socialism is bad for America. Let's wait and see what Obama's socialism will do for us!

Obama wants to spread the wealth around but not his own. Figure that out!

 Arkwriter


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Inexpensive goods-----hmmmmm you mean cheaply put together goods. Walmart a few years ago went to all thing made in the USA--now that has gone away. Alll the health scares of salmanella and e-coli that we got from China--they are still good? Come on Obama had nothing to do with that! I think you just like to spread fear amongst the people. No one could have known about Bush until after he was in office for a fw months-same goes for Obama. Prejudging things is simply irresponsible.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Arkwriter, I think you are confusing socialism with totalitarianism. Your model for well conducted socialism should be the Democratic Socialist parties of western Europe, not the corrupt dictatorships you are citing. Obama is not a socialist. He is a slightly left of centre democrat. Just out of interest, have you travelled much in Europe?


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Agreed, Paraglider. How does arkwriter explain the Nordic countries, which have socialist economic models, are still very much capitalistic (they are not necessarily contrary!), completely democratic, and very prosperous? They also enjoy all of our cherished freedoms. Maybe he's never heard of them?


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Para, Livelonger:

You realize that an ostrich with its head buried deep enough in the sands of Biblical certainty cannot hear anything being spoken by those who walk upon the beach of curiosity, right?


Leta S 8 years ago

Shade-

Lol, so now you sorta agree with me, huh?


Rik Ravado profile image

Rik Ravado 8 years ago from England

The early Christian church shared all their possessions and money and gave to the poor.  Jesus told us to heal the sick, visit those in prison.  But wait - Jesus sounds just like one of those evil European Socialists you are so afraid of.  Could Jesus actually like the idea of free health care? 

Jesus loves those of different ethnic backgrounds and faiths (the good Samaritan).  If you read your Bible with an open mind you'll find Jesus isn't very Republican or a conservative.  he is radical.  he is cool and likes change.  Sounds a bit like Obama? By the way, do you Remember what Jesus did to the money changers in the temple? How radical was that?


Rik Ravado profile image

Rik Ravado 8 years ago from England

I've just done the video calculation and found my real name gives the 666 answer. That explains everything. I'm obviously part of the New World order conspiracy ...


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Rik,

The kind of Christianity that you're describing is exactly the kind I remember from Sunday School as a child. I can relate to that. To me it makes sense. It's the stuff in this hub I find confusing!


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Rik Ravado  says:

The early Christian church shared all their possessions and money and gave to the poor. 

Arkwriter  responds:

You got it right here.  I can’t argue with that!

Rik Ravado  says:

Jesus told us to heal the sick, visit those in prison. 

Arkwriter  responds:

You also got it right here.  

Rik Ravado  says:

But wait - Jesus sounds just like one of those evil European Socialists you are so afraid of. 

Arkwriter  responds:

No way!  You can’t equate Jesus’ godly love for humanity with the “evil European Socialists”.

Rik Ravado  says:

Could Jesus actually like the idea of free health care? 

Arkwriter  responds:

Jesus is the Source of “free health care”.  If you have faith in Jesus you will receive “free health care”.  

Rik Ravado  says

Jesus loves those of different ethnic backgrounds and faiths (the good Samaritan). 

Arkwriter  responds:

Yes, Jesus loves those of different ethnic backgrounds, but not different faiths.  He said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (Jn. 14:6)

Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and those in the New Age Movement preach a false and perverted gospel that is different from what Jesus and the Apostles preached (Gal. 1:6-9; 2 Cor. 11:1-4).  Please read my hub: 

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/oprahobama

Rik Ravado  says

If you read your Bible with an open mind you'll find Jesus isn't very Republican or a conservative. 

Arkwriter  responds:

Jesus isn’t a Democrat nor is He a New Ager like Obama and Oprah!

Rik Ravado  says

he is radical.  he is cool and likes change.  Sounds a bit like Obama?

Arkwriter  responds:

Stop deluding yourself by comparing Obama with Jesus who said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.  I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.  For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Mt. 5:17-18). 

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.” (Heb. 13:8)

That is not Change! That is eternal and constant.

Jesus did not come to change the world.  He came to restore man to his original sinless state before the devil changed man.  He came to save man from sin.

Barack Obama is the greatest “flip-flopper” politician who ever ran for the presidency.  He has changed his position just to get votes.  He is a great deceiver and Americans have been suckered into voting for him.

Rik Ravado  says

By the way, do you Remember what Jesus did to the money changers in the temple? How radical was that?

Arkwriter  responds:

What Jesus did to the moneychangers was not radicalism.  It was righteous anger on those that abused the temple of God.  “And He said to them, ‘It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a den of thieves.” (Mt. 21:12-13)

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Where the heck is the link to this damn 666 video, I've looked through this damn hub and gone to every one and can't find it. Someone re-link it.


marisuewrites profile image

marisuewrites 8 years ago from USA

Arkwriter, it is not possible for Obama to be the antichrist, as the antichrist will be hard to detect as he will be compared to another glowing person. McCain wasn't it. Sorry to disappoint you. Not to upset you, but do you really think you've got Revelation down when scholars still struggle with it? I think your time could be better spent helping our country rather from attacking us from within. Give God a chance, He's still in control, and Obama's good, but he "ain't" that good. =)) Calm down.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Dear Arkwriter,

Sir, I am not doubting your Biblical scholarship. You have responded very well to all the points raised by Rik from the Bible. Your interpretation of Bible I feel is very good but can you please consider changing your personal conclusions. Berrtus calls Obama a "deceiver"(maybe still acceptable to a certain extent) but calling somebody "antichrist" is dangerous. I feel you have the full right to preach the bible and thousands of intelligent people will analyze the rationality on their own. But one deranged person who doesn't and acts as a "self ordained liberator" commits some violence then that isn't an appropriate outcome. Please consider my humble request sir.

Sincerely,

CW


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

arkwriter what do you think of Obama's plans to route out al Qaeda?

Or a couple of days ago on Nov. 19th when the top al-Qaeda lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahri released the video calling Obama a "house Negro"?

Here the al-Zawahri video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUyw3YyK0qY

Mike


Chef Jeff profile image

Chef Jeff 8 years ago from Universe, Milky Way, Outer Arm, Sol, Earth, Western Hemisphere, North America, Illinois, Chicago.

To answer your title: No.


Seabastian profile image

Seabastian 8 years ago from Raleigh

I will try not to malign anyone that has taken part in this discussion and I give the benefit of sincerety to everone that has contributed.

Bertus seemed to think that to give any credit to Baracks doubts about certainty in moral or religious views is due to liberal bias and I have to disagree. I have not voted for any Democrat on the national level for over 40 years but I don't see how any one could have done more damage to our country than the current president. (I  voted for John McCain but I had to hold my nose and ask God not to judge me for it since I had no idea who was the best choice).

mistyhorizon2003 

Cindy makes a great case for the fact that a lot of what is considered scripture,the truth,the word of god or of Jesus etc...etc..etc. has been interpreted and reinterpreted over and over to advance arguments of men who were looking to benefit one way or another beginning with the first popes and continuing with modern day preachers,religious gurus etc.Any religious scholar including Arkwriter has to be aware of this and acknowledge it.

They all apparently think that God has inspired or spoken to them personally (maybe he has - maybe they did not quite understand what he was saying-maybe they were hard of hearing etc)but therefore bcause of what they heard,read etc. they think that they are uniquely positioned because they heard his voice to pass on his wisdom to the rest of us.

I don't Think anyone in this hub has knowingly elevated him/herself to that status (Let Us Know if you Have) but it is easy to attribute that certainty to another source and hence assume that any statements made relying on that source has absolute authority.

I have never been spoken to personally by God though I would welcome such contact. Please don't send me your brochures,links etc. telling me how to get in touch with the almighty.

The last word in the previous paragraph should be a clue. As the almighty he can easily make me aware of any general principles or even specific actions he thinks I should engage in. Without those specific instructions directly from him I have decided that I will try to deal with the world including individuals as I would like to be dealt with. Somewhere this idea has been described as the golden rule-I believe we can call it whatever we want ie. general rule for living and I really doubt that God would be offended or close the the gates of heaven to us if we did.

I realize that is extremely simpleminded but I think somewhere there is some kind of rule devised by someone a lot smarter than me that is similar .

 


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Arkwriter, so if you get an terminal illness (Heaven forbid), do you seriously think Jesus is going to provide you with Healthcare simply because you have faith in him? I doubt it, as the way I see it, the reason he gave us the ability to heal people and advance medical science, was so that we could help ourselves (God helps he who helps himself). Otherwise a bit unfortunate for those who cannot afford to pay for it don't you think?


Eaglekiwi profile image

Eaglekiwi 8 years ago from -Oceania

I was just wondering ...Did anyone suggest George Bush was the 'Anti Christ? or is this just another one of those ,been fearful for so long and been on guard duty all these years ,yep ,heres another one on them thar 'evildoers'.....

Im all for people having opinions but this seems to have been written like its factual.....mixing historical facts with 'opinion' can be misleading.

If any World Leader wont let me worshipand serve my Lord and Saviour that is when Id become suspicious .


Seabastian profile image

Seabastian 8 years ago from Raleigh

mistyhorizon2003 Cindy

Makes a good point. As I pointed out earlier How could the Almighty not notice the intentions of those who would do his will but somehow did not have the right forms. That would put Him in in the same grouping as the IRS the real anticrist.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

The title "anti-christ" is a biblical terminology used by the apostle John in his epistles (letters) to the Early Christians.  He wrote about "many antichrists" (1 Jn. 2:18). There have been many antichrists throughout the ages.  I have named three of them in my hub - namely Constantine, Napoleon and Hitler. 

The Antichrist has to be a Christian who have left the Christian faith.  John wrote, "They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us ; but they went out that they might  be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 Jn. 2:19)  One of the ways in which the Antichrist can be detected and identified is when he left the true faith.

Barack Obama has made several statements about Jesus is not the only way to the One True God. 

Barack Obama is not a true Christian and he definitely preaches a false and perverted gospel

Obama contends belief in Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation

AP - 3/27/2008 8:00:00   The Truth about Barack Obama

http://hubpages.com/politics/truthaboutobama

The Antichrist is a great deceiver of the people (2 Jn. 7).  He lied about not being a Muslim in all his life.  Read this hub.  "A Muslim Wolf in Christian wool ?"

http://hubpages.com/misc/obamamuslimwool

As time goes on you will find more signs of Barack Obama is the Antichrist in the End Time.

May God bless you

Arkwriter


Lionswhelp 8 years ago

It is true that the early 1st Century Church shared all things in common. This is good if it is done correctly when you follow rhe Christian principles of Jesus christ. Socalistic Communism is atheistic and puts everything undercontrol of those on top. But when the merchants take control this is called fASCISM.

Our media has been focused on how bad communism and socialism is while the rich merchants have lined their pockets fron wars and drugs and everything else needed to subvert a dumb downed people. When the merchants take over a government it is these rich bankers that have the control of the people by the Federal Reserve and IRS..

The Media has you fooled and is used to rewrite history. You think thay Lincoln was murdered because he freed the slaves. No, he would not let the rich bankers get control of our nation. They lost the Civil War which was meant to divid our nation. John Wilkes Booth was an agent for those criminal foriegn bankes that wanted to control us. JFK was also done in by these same power mad people because he wanted to do away with the Federal Reserve and print our own money free of charge. The people that control the media have you fooled. Check out your browser and find Alex Jones while you can before the evil New World Order shuts him down.

Lionswhelp


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

"Barack Obama has made several statements about Jesus is not the only way to the One True God."

"Obama contends belief in Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation"

Well what he says is probably true Arkwriter, as what about Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans etc otherwise? Just because they don't necessarily worship Chirst doesn't make them bad or evil people. It is most likely God had to find a way to get his message to all nations, and the easiest way to do this was for the 'Christ' spirit to arrive in various religious icons at different times in order that he could ultimately be accepted by those cultures. 

We all have our own ways of worshipping God, and not necessarily based on the Bible or the translations of it. At the end of the day we have to follow our hearts and our consciences, and if we know we are living a good and kind life as any God would have intended, we are unlikely to be getting it wrong.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

{{ Read this hub. "A Muslim Wolf in Christian wool ?" }}

I wouldn't waste my time. The title itself betrays the bigotry of the writer.


VioletSun profile image

VioletSun 8 years ago from Oregon/ Name: Marie

Arkwriter writes: "Even Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad congratulated Barack Obama on his election win - the first time an Iranian leader has offered such wishes to a U.S. president-elect since the 1979 Islamic Revolution."

I say wonderful! It could be start of global peace, I am always an optimistic, well most of the time.

Did you know George Bush was also rumored to be an anti-Christ by the Pope? I don't like Bush very much, but it seems these fear based, very unbrotherly rumors, follow leaders. A shame.


earnestshub profile image

earnestshub 8 years ago from Melbourne Australia

you are obviously mentally ill. You have done no research and would not know if you had a camel lodged in your non ornamental orifice! What a croc!


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

christinekv. The spirit of the anti-Christ can as much be upon you and me as Obama. And it is up to you and me whether or not he indwells you. Stop making this about a particular individual.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

Arkwriter, you wrote, "Saul was tall, dark and handsome and “a mighty man of power” (1 Sam. 9:1-2).  BHO has good looks much like Saul’s, and he will bring down America like Saul had brought down Israel."

Therein lies the nature of your "research." - flippant, silly comparisons and extrapolations. You do not deserve the extension of politeness some hubber have given you. Your  statement is perhaps a reflection your true sentiments regarding dark-skinned and or good-looking people and you are just hiding behind the AC theory.


Rik Ravado profile image

Rik Ravado 8 years ago from England

Shadesbreath said: Where the heck is the link to this damn 666 video, I've looked through this damn hub and gone to every one and can't find it. Someone re-link it.

You'll find it right at the end of this Hub - just before the bit where you can give this hub the thumbs down.

Incidentally, I'm encouraged by so much wisdom from my fellow hubbers here.  Some of us are believers and some aren't but most of you here through your comments, demonstrate shared values of decency, honesty and the wish to know the truth and the desire to at least give the President-elect a chance to prove himself before judging him.

Ark writer, in his own terms, is a false prophet.  If he were a true prophet of God he would be more open to having his prophecy tested as Paul recommends.  The silly video link to 666 shows the futility of his reasoning.

 

 


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Hey Misty Horizons,

You can believe that hogwash about women having to be submisive to men if you want too. The truth is Jesus Christ came and gave his life for all women and all men. He was sent to restore that beautiful relationship that was disconnected by Satan the Devil in Genesis 3:1-15.

Both my wife and I are egalitarians who practice equality in our marriage. Ephesians 5:21 says we are to submit to one another in Jesus Christ. There is to be no inequality between us. the Holy Spirit inspired the apostle Paul to write in Galatians 3:28-29 that there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ then you are Abrahams seed through Christ and heirs according to Christ's promise to women.

That old hierarchical baloney started with the first Adam and has been like a plague to human kinds relationships. But in Christ gender has no place in the sight of God to keep women from Christ's ministry as equals, 1Peter 2:1-10.

The false cocept that women are to be ruled by men is foriegn to God. If you want to believe such rot then do so. If you want to come out of this deception and be one with God the Father then you should Check out Christians for Biblical Equality one of our links on our Hub. This is a major problem in the Churches that say they are of Christ. Some still carry on with male authority which is pagan idea passed down from Adam after his sin. Jesus warned Eve this would happen. A woman's best friend is Jesus Christ.

Our Hub also includes this very subject which I am working towards. It is the 3rd vital point that will set you free from male dominent hierarchy ideas and put you on a equal footing with God & Christ. Ruach HaKodesh the Holy Spirit ( Momma) can reteach you the good things of God.

The Lionswhelp


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

arkwriter I think you need to go back and read some of these posts.  You are either getting them wrong or missing the point.

For instance when countrygirl said "a little socialism in certain circumstances in certain countries may not be such a bad idea after all" you started to rail against socialism.  But the fact of the matter is collecting taxes to build roads, bridges and airports are a form of socialism.  We have a hyway here in Ontario, the 407, a shorter route into Toronto that nobody can afford to use for their commutes because it was handed over to private interests.

And what are you advocating that the disabled people in wheel chairs should be tossed out on the streets to become homeless?  When Amanda said "that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven" she was quoting from 3 of the 4 Gospels, Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25.

We have universal health care here in Canada and to tell you the truth I can't imagine living without it.  If the Republican's hadn't been so crooked in 2000 the US would already have universal health care.  Al Gore would have brought it in.

artwriter you say “evil European Socialists” but one of Germany's largest industrial sectors that employs a pile of people right now is the alternative energy sector.  That is what Obama has suggested.  The Republicans wanted to "drill baby drill" and destroy wildlife and habitat in the process.

You just blame FannyMay and FreddyMac for the loans but you miss the fact that banks encouraged brokers to con people into sub prime loans when they would have qualified for a prime loan.  The FBI is investigating most of the banks because of this.  The governor of Ohio and I think California and possibly more have taken out law suits against the banks for this.  And they want it to go as far as Wall Street because that is where the loans are eventually sold.  Threw derivatives no less, something that most financial advisers can not even explain what they are.  So the blame goes a lot further than the people that have lost their homes.

We have seen communism collapse in Russia.  But now we know a pure unfettered free market society does not work either.  Especially without regulations on the banks.  As you can see by most of the replies in here, a more intelligent approach is the center.  These right wing and left wing ideologies should be thrown out.

arkwriter you say "Jesus loves those of different ethnic backgrounds, but not different faiths."  That is not true my friend.  Sure Jesus said to take His Word to all nations but the Bible says we are all made in His image.  And the second tenant of the New Covenant is to love thy neighbor as thyself.  That means everyone, not just those within your particular denomination.  McCain said the US could be in Iraq for 50 to 100 years.  To tell you the truth the US should be considering how to pay reparation for that illegal war.

It is reprehensible that you are calling Obama the anti-christ.  Surely you do not mean The anti-christ from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 ?  In the last couple of your posts you seem to be kind of toning down your talk on this.  Are you sure you are not meaning that Obama could be referred to an anti-christ with some of the things he says, just the same way you or others could also be? That 666 video is ridiculous.

We have started a discussion on who the anti-christ may be, a discussion with a little more proof than you offer arkwriter.  If you care to join the discussion it's in this HubPages forum in the religion category,

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/8543?page=3

Mike


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Rik Ravado  says

Ark writer, in his own terms, is a false prophet.  If he were a true prophet of God he would be more open to having his prophecy tested as Paul recommends.  The silly video link to 666 shows the futility of his reasoning.

Arkwriter responds:

I am not a prophet and I have never claimed to be one.  I just interpret the prophecies in the Bible.  I could be a bad interpreter and only time will tell if I am good or bad.  For your sake and also for others, it will make you happier if I am wrong in my interpretation.  What if I am right in my interpretation then it will be very sad for all of you if you do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are some things that I wrote will never change, and that is my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ who is the One True God manifested in the flesh as the Son of God and Messiah.  He is the One and Only Savior.

Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and the New Age people are all antichrists because they say one does not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ alone to be saved and get to heaven.  They are all liars.  Please read this hub:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/truechrist

The reason why I single out Barack Hussein Obama in my hub is because he is the most powerful and influential antichrist in our present time. He is an eloquent orator and when he speaks people listen.

One of the main characteristics of the Antichrist is to be a deceiver (2 John 7).  BHO is one of the most successful deceivers of our time.  When he tells a lie people still believes him.  He is Satan's man.

There are lawsuits filed against BHO concerning his eligibility for the presidency.  Click here:

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/6524

I personally think the lawsuits will be quashed.  BHO has already assembled a cabinet.  Even if BHO, in reality, is not a "natural born citizen" the Democrats will still want him to the president.  He is a very powerful figure and that is why Satan has chosen him to be the main antichrist of the End Time.

May God bless you

Arkwriter


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Lionswhelp, read again the context in which I wrote that comment, and the one that came before it. I don't believe in that rot either, and I am not sure why you think I did. It was virtually all quoted from the link posted previously, and I was pointing out how ridiculous it was, not realising myself it was all satirical in nature at the time.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

{{He is a very powerful figure and that is why Satan has chosen him to be the main antichrist of the End Time.}}

Arkwriter - you are a fool.


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

Is it just the born again crowd that believe that Obama is the anti-christ?

I believe the 3 most important verses in the Bible are Matthew 28:19, John 20:23 and the most important is John 6:54.  Matthew 28:19 talks about baptism, but baptism is just for the forgiveness of the original sin of Adam.  That is why most Christians have their children baptized young.  But we are all sinners and that is why we need to do what is mentioned in John 20:23 throughout our lives.  We need to do what is mentioned in John 20:23 before we do what is mentioned in John 6:54 and we also especially need John 6:54 throughout our lives.  Once you understand these 3 verses you will realize that the idea of "once saved always saved" is not Biblical.

For those that believe in a pre tribulation rapture I highly recommend that you read Misty's Hub title The Pre-trib "Rapture", Myth or Fact?  I believe she did a very good job with her research.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Raptur...

If a millennialist means that you believe that we have been in the thousand year period that is mentioned in Revelations 20 since the crucifixion of Jesus then I am also a millennialist.

Today is the last Sunday of the Liturgical year, the feast of the King of Kings.

Next Sunday is the start of Advent, the preparation period before the feast of the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you

Mike


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Thanks for the 'Plug' Make Money (Mike). I really enjoyed writing that hub, and the research sure convinced me that the 'Pre-trib Rapture' is a load of nonsense and a recent idea at best.


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

Your welcome Misty.  For sure, it's a no brainer.  They'll be waiting threw the tribulation period with their hands in the air, which could be kind of scary.


SirDent 8 years ago

I see many have come to put Arkwriter down. Tit for tat sort of thing that small children do. If he is wrong, then he is wrong. What makes everyone else right? How do you know he is wrong in his assessments?

I don't believe Obama to be THE antichrist, but that doesn't mean he isn't. To call Arkwriter a fool is a foolish thing to do. Here's my take on who the antichrist will be. He will be a man. or a conglomeration of men. He will gain the trust of the whole world, yet deceive them completely. He will be seen as a man of peace, but will cause war to come such as the world has never seen.

To call a snake a snake is truth. To call a snake a cat, dog. elephant, etc. . . is a lie. Have we become so hardhearted that we will stand back and toss stones at someone who is trying to show truth? Most have jumped on the wagon with Obama simply because he said the word change many times over in his campaign. There is still an air of darkness surrounding him, but it seems you don't even care. Doesn't it matter to you who he really is?

One more thing I have noticed. The anitchrist will be very widely accepted. It seems Obama has been accepted and defended very much on this hub.

Arkwriter, a word of advice. I would set this hub to where comments have to be approved before showing up. I would delete them that are attacking and name calling. Of course that is up to you.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

SirDent, if he is not THE Anti-Christ then why are we having this silly discussion? in that case anyone could be anti-Christ. That is the very essence of sin. What Arkwriter has stipulated and many of his ilk allude to even though they duck behind generalizations when pressured for specifics, is that Obama IS the anti-Christ and that is the argument with which all of us who object to this myopic writing take issue.


liquidblue profile image

liquidblue 8 years ago from South Africa

Interesting debate...I must add that end time prophecy also states that

KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE RAPIDLY

THERE WILL BE WARS AND RUMOURS OF WARS, PESTILENCE AND FAMINE

Clearly we're in that age, but here's something to consider seen as we're all involved in the technology age and seem to be willing participants..

Hre's some food for thought and im not diverting from the main topic but building on it by supporting the fact that we live in strange times.

The beast which is a computer database that is currently gathering information on all of us in the form of what we enjoy doing, our weaknesses, our strengths, our habits etc.

consider our social activities online, I think we deep in the lions den already.


Shadesbreath profile image

Shadesbreath 8 years ago from California

Nah, SirDent, that's bad advice telling him to delete posts. The only people who delete posts of people who don't agree with them, even if rude, are people who know their point is empty or their stance indefensible. Censorship is the most obious proof that the censorer knows they are wrong, whether they know it consciously or not.


SirDent 8 years ago

It isn't the disagreements that would be cause for post deletion. It is the attacking nature of them. Of course I believe Arkwriter's shoulders can carry the burden of being attacked so much.

If I was to stand with the front door open and rain started blowing in, wouldn't it make sense to step back and close the door?

Remember arkwriter, they don't rejct you. They reject God.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

SirDent- Sir, Are you proposing that all those who disagree with Arkwriter's conclusions reject God? Do you believe in my way or the highway?

Arkwriter - I personally apologize if I said anything to hurt you. I was just trying to disagree with your conclusions agreeably.


SirDent 8 years ago

That was not meant by my suggestion CW. It was meant for those comments which are attacking in nature. Also it is not my way or the highway. It is God's way or the highway.


liquidblue profile image

liquidblue 8 years ago from South Africa

Ark Writer....We promote you to Ark Angel

Must add that judgement has already started in the universethe ushering in of the anti christ is enevitable.

Heres some facts:

The chip they talked about 2000 years ago, which can still be found in the book of revelations is clearly right in front of us and working already.

To view it follow this link http://www.verichipcorp.com

Now verisign also does all your online SSL certificates and processes most of your credit card transactions on a secure socket layer, sure you're all aware of that.

Further to this verisign had just bought weblogs, just another information gathering database for them as I explained in my earlier post about the Information beast computer database thats gathering information on all of us.

which evidently we continue to add to as we divulge ourselves more socially(Dont stop it's too late)

So we ascertain that we have 2 platforms in place so far

1: Your personal information data

2: The chip is in place

Now revelations speaks clearly on an economic melt down and a world wide currency crash... we almost there... then they'll swing it all over to digitalie: the chip or smart cards...No more cash.

Currently the world is in an economic crisis and it seems like O bama has arrived at the right time to bring about a solution, remember there has to be a state of chaos or disarray in order for a solution to be implmented properly.

I know see 3 platforms

1: Your personal information data

2: The chip is in place

3: Economic chaos

At this stage of the game the tell tale signs of a world reform or new world orderbeing implemented is very real and visible, question is who will be at the helm?The charismatic anti christ whom the world will love, talking peace and flattering us all..

If we had to triangulate total control in this day and age it would be throughtechnology, finance and religion

By crashing the currency it would force everybody to bring thier cash out from under their matresses, they could further back up the implementation of a cashless society by arguing the fact that no person would then be able to avoid tax as every transaction that takes place is in a digital format..sorry guys..

The lucerferian plan for the world is basically world domination and the abolition of faith, by controlling the technology they can switch you off at anytime, think about what you would do without all your online accounts, email, banking etc.

Mentally you're already conditioned to accept severe crisis situation and have been made accustomed to war and tradgedy:

Look at 911, afghanistan and the iraq war, not to mention Bosnia, ruwanda and Sudan, seems like a lot of ethnic cleansing on the go, yet we jsut accept things and dismiss the truth thats really lurking in the back of our minds.

secondly if you dont conform to taking the chip you wont be able to purchaseor even worse you have no access to your digital money..

They now control you know who all your friends are what your habits arewhich gives them a certain power over you, hope you dont surf too many porn sites.

Biblically we now also see judgement starting to come upon the earthAids for example is a pestilence like none ever seen bar the plague we see war as never before: ww1 ww2 iraq afghanistan and those are only a few take a real close international look and see whats happening all over the globe.

we are destined for more earthquakes and natural disasters than ever before.

Having said all this I would consider watching the clock and the political arena very closely, be it in Obamas time and quite frankly he is a charismatic lovable guy, or the next ten years it's allfalling into place just put the pieces together

Lets look at the last 100 years


pylos26 8 years ago

all you lovely children out there quoting Jesus as saying this and that, remember now, Jesus didn't say a single word that is reflected in the bible. Its always what someone else says that Jesus says this or Jesus says that. which makes it HEARSAY. Now then, all you'z at there in radio land, put that in you're pipe'n smoke it.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Misty Horizons,

I did, but when I was scrolling down the first time my eyes caught that rot about female submissiveness. Ephesians 5:21 says men and women are to submit to one another in Christ Jesus. Along with the other two major reasons, (do not Listen to Christ or the Holy Spirit) why chuches are the way they are is Satan hates women, his knees are already knocking as I write these words to you. He has caused his hatred for women to be inmany churches that follow an male hierachy format.

Lionswhelp


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Misty Horizons,

I did, but when I was scroling down the first time my eyes caught that rot about female submissiveness. Ephesians 5:21 says men and women are to submit to one another in Christ Jesus. Along with the other two major reasons, (do not Listen to Christ or the Holy Spirit) why chuches are the way they are is Satan hates women, his knees are already knocking as I write these words to you. He has caused his hatred for women to be inmany churches that follow an male hierachy format.

Lionswhelp


Dorsi profile image

Dorsi 8 years ago from The San Francisco Bay Area

Interesting hub. I don't believe Obama is the Anti-Christ though, I think one of the reasons some people are believing this is because of how powerful he has emerged on the scene.......we haven't had this much interest in a president since John F. Kennedy.......

well put together hub though!


britneydavidson profile image

britneydavidson 8 years ago from united kingdom

Obama is certainly my favourite. Check out my latest hub on Green Phones Concept here http://hubpages.com/hub/Three-Green-Concept-Phones...


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Of course, you'll understand I meant that with no disrespect :) There is a limit to what it is acceptable to say in public, and to accuse someone of being the antichrist is way off limits. It is either wicked or it is folly.


SirDent 8 years ago

Or it is the truth, Paraglider?


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

No Sir Dent. He is President Elect of the United States. It is gross disrespect to call him the Antichrist and it shows a lack of humanity in the writer.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

I agree with you, Paraglider. The writer of this hub should be ashamed of himself, but I have this feeling he's not, and will never be regretful for accusing someone of something so heinous as this.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

Sir Dent, this is truth? Whose truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Hi Gamergirl - people are enitled to believe whatever they like, but when they crawl out from under their stones and start polluting the environment with foul messages, it's right that decent folk should express their revulsion as clearly as possible.


patspnn 8 years ago from NYC

I don't think so because all this trouble i.e. the economy, terroists came on bush's watch and as a result the world has shattered. Even though all this has happened I don't believe Bush is the antichrist


SirDent 8 years ago

I didn't say it was true. That was a question that I asked Parag;ider. One thing I do notice. Arkwriter is a liar if Obama is not Antichrist and he is still a liar if Obama is Antichrist according to many comments here.

And many of you call me deluded.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Of course, I do not think there ever was or ever will be an Antichrist. But Arkwriter clearly believes in the possibility, which is what makes his accusation so unpalatable. Is there any worse insult he could have flung?


pgrundy 8 years ago

While everybody is worrying about whether or not Obama is the Antichrist, the U.S. government is handing out money to multinational corporations as if it has money--the Fed just backed Citi for $306 billion and gave them $20 billion.

We have a few dozen very, very serious issues right now in the U.S. and this is not one of them. My point is, this kind of thing keeps people busy and keeps us all ignorning what is actually happening.

We might want to, you know, pull our heads out of our collective butts at some point.

Just a thought.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Paraglider,

I've always taken the term 'Anti-Christ' to be shorthand for a perpetrator of great evil such as Hitler. That's why I have so much trouble with this hub, as I can find no evidence of Mr Obama doing or suggesting anything remotely evil.

Pam, you're so right. This nonsense is no more than a diversion. We should all be collectively worrying about our futures and not whether Mr O. is the man of dark complexion in Revelations. He's just a very gifted orator with great presence. The kind of guy that comes along but once in a generation.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

That hadn't escaped my notice! Have you seen Shalini's Lolla Land hub?


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Not yet. I'll have a look now.


SirDent 8 years ago

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

If Obama is the antichrist, then your future is at stake isn't it. I said in an earlier comment that I don't think Obama is the antichrist. Of course that wasn't a revelation that came to me in a vision and I could be wrong.

The monetary system of the US is going to fail at some point in time that at the moment no one knows except God. Articles such as this one serve as a wake up call to those who have refused to heed the warnings and cry of the Prophets of God.

Of course the choice is yours to make.


pgrundy 8 years ago

Good grief, Sir Dent. Do you really think THIS article would sway any sane person to become a Christian?

It's like a stick-up: "Covert! Or the AntiChrist will gitcha!"


Rose Ella Morton profile image

Rose Ella Morton 8 years ago from Beverly Hills, Michigan

We have a great President, who just happen to be black.. "So get over it"


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

The Lollaland hub was well worth the read.


pgrundy 8 years ago

Amen Rose Ella.


SirDent 8 years ago

I don't expect this article to sway anyone Pgrundy. That doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I don't recall Arkwriter saying anything about you have to convert.

Rose, how do you know he will be a good president? He hasn't taken office yet. Why do you bring up the issue of color?


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Sir D way back up the comments, I asked if any black person present agreed with the premise that Obama is the antichrist. None responded. This hub is the product of prejudice, whether against Islam or black skin I'm not certain. Probably both. Of course, ArkWriter will deny it and claim he's just seeking the truth.


SirDent 8 years ago

The first comment I saw that even mentioned skin color was the one two comments above my last one. I saw no point in her bringing it up.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Race has been mentioned a couple of times Sir Dent, if you skip right back, and I think that it would probably have been mentioned more, but people are often too embarrassed to accuse others of such predjudice.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

Paraglider, Amanda, Sir D. Arkwriter himself alluded to race. He wrote in response to a comment above.

"Saul was tall, dark and handsome and “a mighty man of power” (1 Sam. 9:1-2).  BHO has good looks much like Saul’s, and he will bring down America like Saul had brought down Israel."

By the way, after God rejected Saul, David (a man after God's own heart!) slew the man who killed him and mourned Saul for days. How Saul comes to feature in this discussion about the AC is beyond me. Besides, the reason why God rejected Saul was for his disobedience just like many Christians disobey His commands. As far as I know, Saul was not described in any way as Anti Christ (he was Old Testament.) This is classic Arkwriter and other fearmongers twisting Scripture to suit their agenda and mislead the gullible.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

 

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

First of all I want to thank our Lord Jesus Christ for this Hub that has brought people of different backgrounds to participate.  There are Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, people of other religions and even atheists have expressed their views on whether Barack Hussein Obama is the Antichrist of the End Time.  I want to specially thank those who have supported me. 

This is a respectable hub with a legitimate question that deserves respectful answers and comments.

Although most comments do not agree with my views, but if they are respectful and not abusive I will still publish them in this hub.  You will respect yourself by respecting others in your comments.

It is necessary for me to make things clear so that hubbers will not have a misunderstanding of my views.

1.    I am a Christian and I am not ashamed of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the One True God manifested in the flesh as the Son of God and He is the One and Only Savior of mankind.

2.    I believe the Holy Bible consisting of the Old and New Testaments are the infallible Words of God.

3.    The terminology “Antichrist” has its only source in the Epistles (letters) of the apostle John who further describes him as “another beast coming up out of the earth, and he has two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.” (Rev. 13:11)  I have identified this "beast" is Barack Hussein Obama in this Hub.

4.    Pretribulationists that believe they will be secretly raptured into heaven before the Great Tribulation arrives, so they do not think BHO is the Antichrist because they are still here on earth.  The Lord Jesus Christ clearly state He will return “after the tribulation”  and not before (Mt. 24:29-31).  Pretribulationists will be caught unprepared during the Great Tribulation. 

5.    This Hub has absolutely no racist content.  Barack Hussein Obama is identified as the Antichrist NOT because of his race or color of his skin.  He is the Antichrist because he fits the biblical description.

A.         He was baptized as a Christian and he has betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ by publicly teaching one does not have to believe in Jesus in order to be saved and go to heaven.

B.         He promotes and supports abortion which is the murder of the unborn children.

C.         He promotes and supports homosexuality which is an abomination to God (Lev. 20:13).

D.         He denies the veracity of the Holy Bible.

E.         He has been proclaimed as the “Messiah” by Louis Farrakhan.

F.          He has been called “God” and worshiped by people.

G.        BHO is a great deceiver which is one of the most important descriptions of the Antichrist (2 Jn. 7)

H.         He lied about his birthplace in Hawaii.  His grandmother Sarah Obama said in a telephone interview with a Christian minister that BHO was born in Kenya.

I.             He lied about not being a Muslim all his life.  He was registered as a Muslim in an Indonesian school.

J.           He lied about not knowing about his former pastor’s (Jeremiah Wright) anti-American sentiments when he was a member of his church for 20 years.

K.         He lied about campaign funds. He did not keep his promise to John McCain about it.

L.          He lied about Bill Ayers

M.        He lied about ACORN that he paid for recruiting voters. ACORN has registered voters fraudulently.

6.    Barack Hussein Obama is a great deceiver of the American people, and they still believe him.  Why? the Bible has the answer.

The Antichrist has another title.  He is also called “the lawless one”  (2 Thes. 2:8-12)

8       "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

9        The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

10        and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11             And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

12       that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

7.    Here the Holy Bible states very clearly that “the lawless one”  will first be revealed, then the Lord Jesus Christ will return to destroy him.  This proves the antichrist is revealed before Jesus Second Coming and it also proves that true Christians will know who the Antichrist is during the Great Tribulation so that they can prepare what to do with this important knowledge.

Wake up, saints of God.  Do not be deluded and be deceived by the Antichrist!

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


SirDent 8 years ago

Calling him tall dark and handsome is not a racist remark nor does it imply race. Do you know why David killed the man who killed Saul? Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. Even though God had rejected Saul, he was still anointed as King over Israel.

Yoy say Arkwriter twists scriptures to suit what he wants, yet you yourself are working against an anoited one of God when you go against Arkwriter.

Saul was described in the Bible 1Sa 9:2 And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly: and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Arkwriter,

You ask in question number 6 above, why people believe in Obama. It is because they are sick to the core of the mess that has been left by President Bush and his Republicans, and they see the hope of a better future written in Obama's face, and they hear sense and compassion in his words.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

I cannot believe you two are still trying to say that a man you've likely never met, and are unlikely to ever meet on good terms if this is your honest belief, is the Antichrist.

Read this, both of you, and stop muddying up the waters of Hubpages with this accusatory falseness.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp


SirDent 8 years ago

Gamergirl, I have stated more than once that I do not believe Obama to be the antichrist. I have merely defended Arkwriter in his quest to reach the truth of the matter.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

"Wake up, saints of God. Do not be deluded and be deceived by the Antichrist!"

What I find most facinating about this hub is that the dicussion continues meaning, even if you're incorrect in your thinking, you've struck a nerve with a lot of people. However, Jesus clearly states that it will not be possible for false christs to decive His elect. Mark 13:22.

Jesus has a beutiful way of taking care of His Own. Fear not, Arkwriter, I trust my King not to allow me to be decieved.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

SirDent- You have, numerous times, applauded arkwriter. Why would you applaud something you don't agree with? As well, there is no quest for truth here - Arkwriter is convinced, wrongly so, that an innocent man is some kind of biblical villain. It's just deranged.


SirDent 8 years ago

Gamergirl, has anyone gone to your hubs told you that you are delusional? Have they come to your wiccan hubs and spoke down to you telling you you are an idiot and a fool?

The Bible says that witches are evil. Wiccans are evil. It also states that no man is innocent. It states that all are liars.

Just as you have the write to write about Wiccan pracices and rituals, Arkwriter has the same right to write about Obama and antichrist.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

My Wiccan hubs are not opinion pieces, they are presentations of the beliefs of a religion. That in and of itself is where this hub and my religious hubs differ- Arkwriter is not presenting facts or beliefs of a religion, but rather hateful discussion as to his personal interpretation that an individual is the Antichrist.

If Arkwriter merely kept to writing fact and beliefs of the religion as a whole and not his own twisted, immoral and incorrect theories based on rumor and lies, then a comparison of my hubs and his would be more in line. As it sits right now, there is no comparison. None.


SirDent 8 years ago

My last response here for a while. Has anyone actually proven Arkwriter wrong with evidence contrary to what he wrote?

Mostly what I have seen is an attempt to paint Arkwrtier a fool who doesn't know anything. One more question. Has Obama told any lies during his campaign?


rockinjoe profile image

rockinjoe 8 years ago from Standing right behind you!

The only thing that arkwriter is guilty of, besides being a little disturbed in my opinion, is writing a hub that's probably getting some huge adsense traffic. That being said, anyone passionate about the hub (for or against) should be allowed to comment (and attack) if necessary, depending on that level of passion.

Not speaking for gamergirl, but if she saw something on one of my hubs that she was passionately against, I'd want to know her opinion. (Even in an attack comment) We're friends and I respect her opinion. I'd expect the same from her-or anyone else who read my hubs. Don't think for a second that one can write a hub with this obviously flawed information and not get an attack comment here and there. It keeps the Google money coming in-and if arkwriter weren't here for the Google money, he would have written this hub somewhere else.

By the way,I see a Midori banner running on this hub. I guess the Antichrist is brought to us by Midori. Don't drink it anymore. It's green and evil.

Have an awesome day!


rockinjoe profile image

rockinjoe 8 years ago from Standing right behind you!

Hi sirdent. Here are some antichrist facts. I don't see much Obama in here.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/cal...


Leta S 8 years ago

This mixing of Christianist 'religion' and politics is exactly one of the reasons why Obama was elected and why the Republican party is in shambles and needs to go reinvent itself to ever be viable again. Reasonable people were scared of all this, and what it represented through the form of Sarah Palin. I guess she believed Alaska had a special place in God's eyes for Alaska in the 'end times.'

For those who really paid attention--reading multiple good sources and taking in all information--I believe it was fairly clear what side lied more and ran a bad campaign.

Of course, life is complicated, reading a lot takes time and you have to pay attention, so for some, I suppose it is easier to just dig your heels in and keep to those sources, etc. that agree with you or that you can interpret to agree with you.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

I had a vision. Obama is not the antichrist. There's your proof. End of discussion.


Rose Ella Morton profile image

Rose Ella Morton 8 years ago from Beverly Hills, Michigan

SirDent- Don't play dumb with me. You know if he was white we wouldn't be having this conversation. We should be glad that Obama is willing to clean up this hugh Mess that Bush left. We are all drowning and you ask for ID from the person that saving you.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

Sir D. You befuddle me. In your comment above, the statements you cite about Saul just proved my point about Arkwriters misuse of Scripture. I do not dispute that Arkwriter is a sincere believer, though the more I read him, the more I consider him misguided. Unlike you, I will not unquestioningly consider a man anointed just because he pastors a church or wields the Bible. It is my right and duty to question his teachings and beliefs. In fact we are encouraged to do so.

Acts 17:11 says:

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

if they questioned the great Saint Paul, why shouldn't I question a man whom I only know as Arkwriter? In fact I would let the words of the Bible address this most unfortunate of hubs.  1 Peter 2:13-17 says:

"Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king."

Need I say more?

Wait . . .  I need an asprin!

 


liquidblue profile image

liquidblue 8 years ago from South Africa

Personally I think Ark Writer is just being vigilant, as we all should be.His reason for basing this hub, is the possiblity of Obama being the anti christwhich is a very loud statement in it's own right.

But think about the current state of chaos on a global scale, which is staringyou in the face, with the strong stench of the word "Major problems." twirling around your nostrils, while you're wondering how safe your investments arein a AAA rated bank, which evidently may collapse tomorrow, all this whilethe USA has a presidential election...mmm...

Now dear Ark writer who has a book that clearly states the economic chaos, wars, pestilence, famine, earthquakes and the likes, of whichare all present now, is looking at this book, almost like an alarm clock thats just gone off, giving a definitive line of parallels lining up with the current state of world affairs.

Now Ark Writer also sees that the book states that in all this chaos, a manloved by the world will arise on the political scene and have solutionsfor the worlds problems, In his eyes Obama is the man, quite franklyyou have to ask yourself the question, who else would Ark Writer chooseto fit that discription?

The book goes on to state that this man after a period will then go on totake control of the world, usher in the chip, abolish christianity and any form of faith and quest to have world domination.

It's that simple, Ark Writer hasn't just chosen a random victim, he's profiled him from a detailed sketch which has been given to him.So rightfully he has formed his opinion and voiced an alarm bell on his watch.

You have the right to listen to his opinion, maybe even research his source which could be an eye opener, or reject it.

and with all the global economic chaos, war


SirDent 8 years ago

Rose Ella Morton says:3 hours ago

SirDent- Don't play dumb with me. You know if he was white we wouldn't be having this conversation. We should be glad that Obama is willing to clean up this hugh Mess that Bush left. We are all drowning and you ask for ID from the person that saving you.

SirDent: If I didn't know better, I would think you just called me a racist with your remarks. For your information, I have asked for no ID from anyone. I haven't asked for Obama's birth certificate. I will say that I didn't back Obama, nor did I back McCain.

Let's get the the part that you stated that really got to me now. You said, "We are all drowning and you ask for ID from the person that is saving you." Your own quote.

Now I say this. "Maybe you are drowning. Is your head underwater yet? Maybe you think Obama is your Messiah. If so, then by your own admission, he is the antichrist. If I misunderstand what you mean, let me know. In closing, Jesus Christ is my savior. He is the only one who can save anyone. Obama cannot do it, McCain cannot do it."


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

I completely agree with Rosa's point.  If Obama was Caucasian no one would be questioning his citizenship.  That is all she is saying.  Lets calm down and be nice everyone.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

Putting people down and acting Christian about it really upsets me. When will this ever end?


pgrundy 8 years ago

The fact that people keep commenting on this hub isn't proof that of its veracity. The hub has "struck a nerve" alright--the nerve that sounds a warning alarm when hatemongering whack-jobs get the bully pulpit.

It is beyond me how anyone can put the label of "Christianity" on this hateful racist nonsense, much less get out the "Jesus is the only way" big stick to pound on whoever disagrees.

Lita is right--this kind of blather is precisely why the Republican Party is going down the tubes. People do not want this right wing religion-as-politics craziness going mainstream, they just don't. It sickens me that people who call themselves Christians defend this hate-mongering diatribe.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

All I was saying was this hub pretty much contradicts all the teachings of those claiming to be Christian. It is hateful.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Sir Dent says, "The Bible says that witches are evil. Wiccans are evil".

Going slightly off topic can I just state that actually the Bible didn't state this according to what I have been taught. Actually the Bible translation was changed, and although it should originally have read 'Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live' this was changed to 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live', so giving a completely different meaning.

Also, as the term 'Wiccan' was only a relatively recent idea, I doubt it is referred to in the Bible, and if so I would love to know which verse it was referred to in.

I quote from http://www.hollowhill.com/fun/halloween/witch-bibl...

"James I was notorious for being paranoid about witches, spells and so on. This was, in part, due to volatile politics of the time. He had good reason to be nervous.

His Bible, (The King James Bible) was translated to keep 'Jamie Boy' happy, so they translated the word 'Chasaph'- which is Hebrew for poisoner to mean "witch" instead.

The real Biblical passage was about the disturbing crime of poisoning in the Jewish community. When that line was originally written, poisonings were a growing concern. And in that 'eye for an eye' era, the logical sentence for a poisoner was death".


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Just to further clarify this point I also quote here from a different site:http://www.sultry-leather.com/wicca/meaning.html

"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER..."What does the Bible say about Witches?

"Well, NOT A LOT! Lets look at the main source of this: Exodus 22:18--"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." As was pointed out as early as 1584 by Reginold Scot in "The Discovery Of Witchcraft," the original word in Hebrew, chasaph means "poisoner," not Witch.

At the time of writing, a poisoner could ruin a well and kill many people and livestock. This is what the Bible originally referred to.

King James I had a paranoid fear of Witches (as evidenced by his book, Daemonologie) and deliberately had his translators alter the text to prove grounds for the extermination of Witches. Reginold Scot's book was burned at the command of James I.

The other well known quote, comes from the story of the "Witch of Endor" found in I Samuel, 28. Was she a witch? According to the Bible, NO. the Bible states she was, "a woman that hath a familiar spirit." Apparently, this woman was what we today, would call a "channel" or some type of medium.

These incorrect translations, still in use today, have been the cause for thousands to die.

I hope this sheds a little bit of light on Wicca for you. It is not meant to change your faith, just to let you understand that Wicca is not what movies and books portray it as. It is a very gentle religion of nature."


Misha profile image

Misha 8 years ago from DC Area

Wow! I can't believe you people are still here...


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Where else would we be, Misha? Debunking communism in the forums? ;-)


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Wow, I've been away for a while and looks like I've missed a lot on this hub. I did notice something I thought was strange, that the race thing was brought into this. I don't understand that. Saying that arkwriter is picking on him because he's not white doesn't make sense to me. And I have a good reason for saying that. Arkwriter is saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus is not white, He's a Jew. He has dark skin. So, there would be no way that arkwriter would pick on anyone due to the color of their skin the way he is being accused of. It makes no sense that it's even been brought up. He's not going to trust his soul to someone who's not white then attack someone because they are not. It feels like people are looking for excuses to call names the throw insults at arkwriter, but with nothing to back up what they are saying about him. He is backing up what he believe with Scripture. But, although I see many thing said against him and him being called names, I see no proof as to why he's wrong. I have said before that I don't believe that Obama is the anti-christ. But, I also said I could be wrong. This to me is not something I feel worthy to argue with arkwriter over. Had he said something against the Bible, I would take exception to that. But, I don't see anything that goes against what the Bible says, especially since he shows Scripture to back up what he feels. I don't think he made this hub to be mean to Obama. I think he did it to ask a real question and to share what he feels. I don't think he's being hateful and I sure don't see him wanting to hurt Obama. I think he's just sharing what he feels. And I respect him for the way he wrote it and how he has conducted himself especially with how he is being treated. It seems that if you make a hub that goes against the Bible you are bragged on, but if you write one about the way you feel about the Bible based on Bible Scripture, you get ganged up on and attacked. So, I admire him for caring enough to try to open people's eyes to what is going on in the world today, knowing how he was going to be attacked.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Allshookup,

There are sensible comments backed by biblical reference from other hubbers countering Arkwriter's conclusions. Arkwriter is of course entitled to his opinions as are we all, but in this context, they are only opinions, and not facts.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

They are opinions, so I don't see that calling him names and trashing him is accomplishing anything. I haven't seen him call anyone that has been trashing him names, unless I missed that post. Did I miss seeing him calling someone a fool or another name?


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

No, not that I've seen. But of course inflammatory opinions will get people inflamed, and that's a two way street.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Like I said, I don't think Obama is the anti-christ, but I'm not gonna get mad at him for having the opinion that he is. I honestly don't think arkwriter is trying to get anyone mad or upset. I think if he were, he'd be posting much more heated words than he is. But anyway, I think he's handling himself well as much as his opinion is being attacked. That is my point. And another point was I don't understand how race even came up on this hub. It's quiet a stretch and I can't see why it was brought up in the first place. I'm sure he knows that his opinion is not popular on hubpages though. But I think it shows class that he is trying to answer what is said to him and not talking bad to the people who say the things by showing Scripture.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Allshookup,

There are three dimensions:

1) Intentions: What was the intention behind the article. Giving him the benefit of doubt consider that to be "good" and informative to others.

2) Interpretations: From where is he interpreting. The holy bible certainly is a good source of interpretations atleast for most of the people.

3) Conclusions: The end result of these interpretations. This is where the problem arises. Since you are aware that this is a public forum and anybody has access to these material then one in a million deranged individual may actually get so affected by it and take it on himself to be a "self ordained liberator" to  commit a violent act. Most of the people will analyze the writer's "personal conclusions" but that one person who doesn't is the problem. Do you rule out the possibility of 1 in a million chance of such an event happening. Most of the "religious fighters" tend to believe they are sacrificing their life for a "greater cause".(There already have been assasination attempts on him earlier in August & October). In case you were not aware here are the links for that: http://rightwingnews.com/mt331/2008/08/the_obama_a...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14988.ht...


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

CW- I realize that there are crazy people out there. But I don't think arkwriter feels that's a reason not to share the Bible with people. I feel he is sharing his view because he cares about people. Too, arkwriter is not the only person I have seen with this view. I have gotten a ton of emails telling why a whole bunch of people feel that he is the anti-christ. Those skinheads that were arrested in Tennessee with guns were not going to try to kill him because they thought he was the anti-christ. It was for a totally different reason and I'm glad they were caught. There is a number of ways that the theory arkwriter shares with many people is being circulated. Telling arkwriter not to share this is not going to stop this message from being spread worldwide. I have been getting emails about this for a year. So, it's something that is already being spread far before arkwriter shared his views. Arkwriter is not trying to get anyone to do anything against Obama. If someone that is crazy is looking for a reason to hurt someone, they'll find a reason on their own. I have even seen this theory on TV. Now that's a huge audience for someone. Far bigger than hubpages.


Rose Ella Morton profile image

Rose Ella Morton 8 years ago from Beverly Hills, Michigan

Sirdent- Thanks for becoming my fan. And I should also ask that you be truthful. Right now I wonder what the conversation would be If McCain had won. Would everyone be calling him the Anti-Christ. Or just a tired old man who loved being around beautiful younger women.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Allshookup - I agree with you each has the right to share their views and especially about such a great holy book bible then it is certainly welcome. Iam sure arkwriter has no intentions to lead anyone to commit such a horrible act. Also you are right that if some one is crazy they will find a reason on their own which could be something from such "personal conclusions" of the writer. Such people don't really want to know the whole truth but are conveniently looking for what they believe to be the "truth" and act upon it. We don't want to provide fodder for such people who are looking repeatedly for such material to convince themselves that their thinking is right and that their subsequent actions are justified.

We have enough religions in the world to divide each other but not enough to love each other(The whole thing if Obama isn't a true "christian" then he is going to be bad President isn't appropriate). Instead of using religion to spread fear of someone it can be better served to foster love among each other. We are living through tough economic crisis and the last thing we need is to further spread fear about the uncertain future under the new Presidency.

I admire the biblical scholarship of Arkwriter and agree he is entitled to preach the peaceful loving gospel of Jesus Christ. My opinions so far are totally personal and have no intention to hurt the feelings of anyone (including christians of whom I have the highest regard and respect). I apologize if anything I have said thus far has offended yours or others feelings.

Sincerely,

CW


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

CW- I took no offence from what you said to me. I think he may be pointing out that preaching Christs' love is not all there is to the Bible. There is more in there than "Love thy neighbor" and I think he may be showing that. I have seen so many people who only want to hear that part because that part makes them comfy. But, there is more in the Bible that that phrase and "Judge not." There's a ton more. Here on hubpages, it seems that it's all good if someone talks only about love this and love that. But, when they speak of something other than love, people get all upset. But, we really can't just pick and choose parts of the Bible we like and discard the rest of it. I appreciate that you didn't want to offend me as I never meant to you either.


Aimee30 profile image

Aimee30 8 years ago

I also believe there are many anti-christs and Hitler was likely one in a long line starting with the Caesar of that time.

However, my opinion is, the president that's on his way out is the one who was more like an anti-christ as he said a lot about God to get people to participate in wars, vote for him, make himself more appealing to the religious, etc. However, he's not because he's leaving office and can't stay which is much better for America.

Besides, look at how he brought the United States close to ruin while telling the American people the economy was getting better.

If anything, the people who follow the Bible say a good leader was supposed to come before the anti-christ. If we go by those calculations, Obama could never be the anti-christ.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

If you focus on the things that you fear those things are what you will get.  If you focus on Love then you will get that -it is al how you look at things and it has nothing to do with the Bible or Christ or the Anti-Christ.  It is realy called Self Responisbility and I do believe Jesus was telling that to us in the Bible.

For those of you who have brought satan and fear into all this here is a site that I just found today that tells what Satan is and the history of the thing:

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/satan/


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Thanks for the link, and I can only speak for me, but I perfer to get my info directly from God's Word. And it tells the history of how Lucifer fell from Heaven. The Bible is all the history about Satan I need really.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

That is fine, but it also says in the Bible to test and research on your own. If you like being in the dark then so be it.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

If taking the Bible at it's word is what you call being in the dark, then that's where I want to be. :)


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

You know, I never ever said that I don't go by the Bible, if fact I quote scriptures just like you do-but somehow or another you have always come at me for not believing in the Bible or even reading it or anything like that. So just get off it!


SirDent 8 years ago

Rose Ella Morton says:75 minutes ago

Sirdent- Thanks for becoming my fan. And I should also ask that you be truthful. Right now I wonder what the conversation would be If McCain had won. Would everyone be calling him the Anti-Christ. Or just a tired old man who loved being around beautiful younger women.

SirDent: I have no idea if it would be taking place or not. It depends on whether someone wrote an article like this one about him.

Misty, does Wicca have anything to do with Godess worship?


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Take a chill pill 'minister'. I never said you don't read the Bible. I just said that I take it for being God's whole word and I don't add to it.

Here is the reason I don't add to it:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things which are written in this book." Rev 22:18-19


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

AQnd it has been proven that some words have ben mistranslated from the original content and some books have been removed or just not added by the descretion of the ones in Political power when they were putting them together.  So all things are nbot in that book and there is a passage that even states that---in the Bible itself.

TThat is why Jesus said to test everything---he knew what was going to happen to his words and the political powers that would come up against it and how his words would be mistranslated.....or do you think he was dumb. I don't think he was at all. I think he was a very smart man.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Yes it can do Sir Dent, but not in all cases. It can be as much about whether you consider the supreme spirit to be male or female, or neither. So yes there is the belief in a Goddess, but also there is the belief in a 'Green Man'. For what it is worth I do not believe a sex is important to God, as this is most likely an earthly concept, and what matters is the values that spirit holds and how you honour them.

I hope this answers your question.


SirDent 8 years ago

Misty, the Bible states, "Thou shalt have no other god before me." That spirit is not of God. Values mean nothing if they are leading you the wrong way.

Now I have a simple question for anyone who wants to anser it.

Which is worse, one who says kill everyone and everything out in the open, or one who actually does it in secret?


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Sorry, I don't follow you Sir Dent, why do you say 'that spirit is not of God' after all, it came before all known Biblical stories and doesn't preach to do anything God would consider evil?

Not sure what your second statement means "Which is worse, one who says kill everyone and everything out in the open, or one who actually does it in secret?", as this is not something that can be associated with Wicca or Paganism in any way, shape, or form.

Wicca and Paganism are nature loving religions. We look after the planet and it's creatures, just as God would wish us to. It is truly is as simple as that!


Leta S 8 years ago

The sane answer to that question is that both are bad, period. And making a choice to that question is not a part of many people's value set, thank God--whatever you conceive him/her to be.

I also hope it is not being suggested here that God certainly 'cannot' be represented by a female spirit--only that of a male.


SirDent 8 years ago

Lita realized what I was aksing in with the question. Both are bad. One just as bad as the other. The anichrist is not going to be someone who yells to kill everyone. he will be more subtle than that. He will be more like the one killing them in secret. he will also show a set of morals while he does these things.

As for God, He is God, nothing more and nothing less.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Lady, I have a question for you please. Who ordained you to be a minster?


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

SirDent: Can you provide some real-world examples for your question?

"Values mean nothing if they are leading you the wrong way." Couldn't agree more with this statement. We might disagree with the values that we're talking about, though. I happen to believe Christianist hatemongering values are the wrong ones.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Wading through this stuff, I have to say I am very happy to be wholly irreligious. It is very liberating simply to let it all go and free your mind to focus on the real issues in the real world. None of this antichrist stuff is necessary or helpful.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

I am just as surprised as some of you that this hub on Obama being the Antichrist is still going on after more than a week.  I want to thank Sir Dent and Allshookup for their Christian love, fairness and righteousness.  They do not share my views but they write respectful comments.  I respect them.  Countrywomen is not even a Christian but she is kind and thoughtful about not hurting other peoples’ feelings.  There are good people in different religions, but that is not how a person can be saved.  “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph. 2:8-9)  I am praying for CW ‘s salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why did I write this Hub?  It is plainly stated in the title.  “Is Barack Hussein Obama the Antichrist of the End Times?”  The Holy Bible tells us the Antichrist who is called the lawless one will be revealed before the Lord’s Second Coming (2 Thess. 2:8).  The next verse 2 Thess. 2:9 gives us a clue about why BHO fits the description of the “lawless one”.   “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thess. 2:9-10).

Barack Hussein Obama lied about his birth place in Hawaii.  His own grandmother said he was born in Kenya.  Go to this web page:    

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=50754

Obama was born in Kenya.  Affidavit of Reveren Kweli Shuhubia

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.econom...

Barack Hussein Obama’s  50 Lies and Counting

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2008/04/barack-husse...

Barack Hussein Obama is the “lawless one”  =  the Antichrist

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Arkwriter - just so that we can see exactly where you are coming from, would you care to outline what is planned for those of us who are not 'saved'?


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Agreed, Paraglider, although Pentecostals are really on the fringe of the Christian spectrum. Unfortunately, at 80 million in the US alone, the "holy rollers" and their venom-laden dogma are not the minority...


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Well, so far he hasn't responded, but unless I'm mistaken, he believes that everyone except his particular tiny minority are destined for a place "where the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched". His God is an evil god, but fortunately not the one that most Christians believe in.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Livelonger;

You may want to consider settling down. Labeling Pentecostals as having "venom laden dogma" is completely disgusting.


SirDent 8 years ago

Just so you know Livelonger, I am pentecostal. I stated that before in comments on this hub but you may not have seen it.

Can you explain your question please. I am not sure if you want examples of morals and still being led down the wrong path or it is a request for an example according to the question I asked.

Paraglider, Jesus died for the sins of all men. He did it because God wanted Him to do it. I can't see how anyone can call a God evil who would lay down His life for you when you hated and reviled Him.

That is the one thing that causes Jesus to rise above any other belief system there is in the world. He didn't tell everyone to go about doing good. He didn't just command everyone to be saved and take away our freedom to choose. He actually died a death that we are all deserving to receive. No other belief system in the whole wide world comes close to this.

In the end of the Bible there is written, "Whosoever will, let Him come drink of the water of life freely." This is in itself leaves absolutely no one out. He is not going to force feed you the water of life. It is a choice that we each must make on our own.

If you choose to drink, then I praise God for it. If you choose not to drink, I will still praise God for giving you the choice and the opportunity.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU,,

Who told your minister to be a minister---and who told you that he wa the only one who can be right?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU and other curious folk, My credentials and story of how I became a Minister is here: http://hubpages.com/hub/I-Heard


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 8 years ago from Antioch, TN

I guess picking and choosing whose comments you read must work out well, so I won't waste any more time trying to disprove this bullcrap.

Arkwriter - by cashing in on hate, on fearmongering and on lies, you do a disservice to yourself.

I'm out.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Paraglider says:

Arkwriter - just so that we can see exactly where you are coming from, would you care to outline what is planned for those of us who are not 'saved'?

Arkwriter responds:

There is only One True God who created the universe and mankind.  Our first ancestors Adam and Eve were created in God’s image so they were originally created perfect.  The devil deceived them and caused them to sin by disobeying God and death is the result of sin.  Adam and Eve lost the perfect image of God after their sin and were driven out of Paradise.  All mankind inherited the sin of Adam and that is the reason why we all die and have so much suffering, wickedness and evil things in the world.

God has a plan of salvation for mankind which is to restore man to his original state.  Man cannot save himself.  Only God can do that.  He does it by coming to this earth in the form of flesh as the Son of God.  Jesus Christ is both God and man.  He is the only Savior of mankind because He has no sin, therefore He is the only Person in the world who can become our substitute in death.  Jesus died in our place.

To receive God’s salvation is very easy.  All you have to do is to believe Jesus is the Son of God, the promised Messiah who is the one and only Savior of mankind, that He died for you, was buried and resurrected from the dead.  You will also need to repent of your sins and be baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit who guides you to live a holy life and keep God’s commandments.  

Salvation is free.  You can take the first step of salvation by confessing and repenting of your sins, and accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.  You will need to attend a Christ-centered and Bible-believing Church regularly and fellowship with other Christians and grow in a spiritual way.

The Lord Jesus Christ states: “I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (Jn. 14:6)  Jesus is the only way to heaven and there is no other way.  Jesus said:    “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.  Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Mt. 7:13-14) 

Today there is a popular teaching that you can believe in any religion and even no religion, but as long as you do what you think is good then you can be saved and go to heaven.  This is the “broad way that leads to destruction.”  This is what Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and the New Age Movement is teaching.  This is the false gospel of the Antichrist.  The Bible says: “There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” (Pro. 14:12)

There is only one way a person can go to receive God's salvation.  Either God’s way or no way.  There are only two final destinations for every person on earth – it is either heaven or hell, and nothing in between!

There are four hubs that I am recommending you to read.

1.     How to distinguish the True from the False Religions

http://hubpages.com/misc/distinguishreligions

2.     How can you be sure that Christianity is the only true religion in the world

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/truechrist

3.     Heaven is Real and You want to go there

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/heavenreal

4.     Hell is Real and You Don't Want to Go There !

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/hellisreal

May God bless you,

Arkwriter


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

I will say this about Pentacostals, livelonger, when the "more mainstream" denomiations started treating me like garbage because I was divorced, it was the local Petnacostals (AOG)  who came out of the wood work to show me that God still loved me. 

When I refused to eat. They brought me food.  (But they did not frorce it down my throat, they offered it.)  I knew what some of them made and the types of food they purchased for me, because they knew what I would eat was outside thier normal budget. When I cried they came with a tissue. When I asked, "Where's God?" they didn't preach, they just showed me His presense.

Having been one who mis-judged many of them, I will tell you that among the individuals I encountered there was no "venom-laden dogma" and when we had clear doctrinal differences, they did not argue, nor-berate. We simply disagreed in love.

I don't see how labeling Pentacostals as "venom-laden" is any less hate speech than saying all muslims are terroists.


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

Well, I am glad that your local church took care of you and showed you love during your time of need. Obviously, that is not the sort of behavior I take issue with.

It's the fact that the most vehemently hateful Christians, and the ones that seem to relish telling everyone else that they're going to hell, are almost always Pentecostals in my experience. As a gay person, even the Mormons are more respectful to us than Pentecostals. And Pentecostals seem the most intolerant of other religions. I don't forget SirDent's gratuitous Christ vs Mohammad hub.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe, and, like I said, given your church's actions towards you when you were feeling low, I suppose that's understandable. But I have to make my own decision based on what I see, and I have an exceptionally low opinion of the Pentecostal church.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

I am truly sorry this has happened to you, it was, unloving, (in my opinion, 'the greatest sin' - see my hob of the same name ) ... Interestingly enough, "my" local church was the one who treated me like garbage. Those "weirdo pentacostals" (my opinion at the time) who were not "my" church came to me. That got my attention so much more.

Again, treating you in an unloving way is wrong. Jesus loved us all 'while we were STILL sinners" and calls each of us who are His to do the same.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

1 John 4

1Beloved, every spirit believe not, but prove the spirits, if of God they are, because many false prophets have gone forth to the world;

2in this know ye the Spirit of God; every spirit that doth confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is,

3and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

4Ye -- of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who [is] in you, than he who is in the world.

5They -- of the world they are; because of this from the world they speak, and the world doth hear them;

6we -- of God we are; he who is knowing God doth hear us; he who is not of God, doth not hear us; from this we know the spirit of the truth, and the spirit of the error.

7Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;

8he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son -- the only begotten -- hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;

10in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;

12God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;

13in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us.

14And we -- we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son -- Saviour of the world;

15whoever may confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God in him doth remain, and he in God;

16and we -- we have known and believed the love, that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him.

17In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;

18fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;

19we -- we love him, because He -- He first loved us;

20if any one may say -- `I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?

21and this [is] the command we have from Him, that he who is loving God, may also love his brother


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

1 John 4

1Beloved, every spirit believe not, but prove the spirits, if of God they are, because many false prophets have gone forth to the world;

2in this know ye the Spirit of God; every spirit that doth confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is,

3and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

4Ye -- of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who [is] in you, than he who is in the world.

5They -- of the world they are; because of this from the world they speak, and the world doth hear them;

6we -- of God we are; he who is knowing God doth hear us; he who is not of God, doth not hear us; from this we know the spirit of the truth, and the spirit of the error.

7Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;

8he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son -- the only begotten -- hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;

10in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;

12God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;

13in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us.

14And we -- we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son -- Saviour of the world;

15whoever may confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God in him doth remain, and he in God;

16and we -- we have known and believed the love, that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him.

17In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;

18fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;

19we -- we love him, because He -- He first loved us;

20if any one may say -- `I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?

21and this [is] the command we have from Him, that he who is loving God, may also love his brother


coolbreeze profile image

coolbreeze 8 years ago from Hawaii

The Anti-Christ is Bill Gate isnt it ;-)


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

ASU, you failed to answer the questions put forth to yu here. Instead you posted a VERY Hateful comment on my hub. Now dear, how was your minister called and who told him that he was the only one that was right in everything?

Did you know that when Paul was called to be a minister--he did not go to a college or school and he didn't have a degree or anything like that! Now tell me how one should be caled to be a minister..............


livelonger profile image

livelonger 8 years ago from San Francisco

BDazzler: sorry, I meant your local Pentecostal church, not the other one that, bizarrely, shunned you for a divorce. (Are they shunning half the country?) To be clear, I don't take issue with the glossolalia and other "charismatic"-like behavior of the Pentecostals. Whatever people do and find meaning in is fine with me, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I do take issue with the hate, though.

It might be that Pentecostals, since they are so accepting of people abandoned by other churches, that they open their arms to people who really are not nice people. And those people, through personal charisma, rise in the church and become leaders in it. This is the face I primarily see.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Matthew 4:11Then doth the Devil leave him, and lo, messengers came and were ministering to him.Matthew 4:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter) Matthew 8:15and he touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she arose, and was ministering to them.Matthew 8:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 8 (Whole Chapter) Matthew 20:28even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'Matthew 20:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 20 (Whole Chapter) Matthew 25:44`Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?Matthew 25:43-45 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter) Matthew 27:55And there were there many women beholding from afar, who did follow Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him,Matthew 27:54-56 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter) Mark 1:13and he was there in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Adversary, and he was with the beasts, and the messengers were ministering to him.Mark 1:12-14 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter) Mark 1:31and having come near, he raised her up, having laid hold of her hand, and the fever left her immediately, and she was ministering to them.Mark 1:30-32 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter) Mark 9:35and having sat down he called the twelve, and he saith to them, `If any doth will to be first, he shall be last of all, and minister of all.'Mark 9:34-36 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter) Mark 10:43but not so shall it be among you; but whoever may will to become great among you, he shall be your minister,Mark 10:42-44 (in Context) Mark 10 (Whole Chapter) Mark 10:45for even the Son of Man came not to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'Mark 10:44-46 (in Context) Mark 10 (Whole Chapter) Mark 15:41(who also, when he was in Galilee, were following him, and were ministering to him,) and many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem.Mark 15:40-42 (in Context) Mark 15 (Whole Chapter) Luke 4:39and having stood over her, he rebuked the fever, and it left her, and presently, having risen, she was ministering to them.Luke 4:38-40 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter) Luke 8:3and Joanna wife of Chuza, steward of Herod, and Susanna, and many others, who were ministering to him from their substance.Luke 8:2-4 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter) Luke 12:37`Happy those servants, whom the lord, having come, shall find watching; verily I say to you, that he will gird himself, and will cause them to recline (at meat), and having come near, will minister to them;Luke 12:36-38 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter) Luke 17:8but will not [rather] say to him, Prepare what I may sup, and having girded thyself about, minister to me, till I eat and drink, and after these things thou shalt eat and drink?Luke 17:7-9 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter) Luke 22:26but ye [are] not so, but he who is greater among you -- let him be as the younger; and he who is leading, as he who is ministering;Luke 22:25-27 (in Context) Luke 22 (Whole Chapter) Luke 22:27for who is greater? he who is reclining (at meat), or he who is ministering? is it not he who is reclining (at meat)? and I -- I am in your midst as he who is ministering.Luke 22:26-28 (in Context) Luke 22 (Whole Chapter) John 12:2they made, therefore, to him a supper there, and Martha was ministering, and Lazarus was one of those reclining together (at meat) with him;John 12:1-3 (in Context) John 12 (Whole Chapter) John 12:26if any one may minister to me, let him follow me, and where I am, there also my ministrant shall be; and if any one may minister to me -- honour him will the Father.John 12:25-27 (in Context) John 12 (Whole Chapter) Acts 6:2and the twelve, having called near the multitude of the disciples, said, `It is not pleasing that we, having left the word of God, do minister at tables;Acts 6:1-3 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter) Acts 13:2and in their ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, `Separate ye to me both Barnabas and Saul to the work to which I have called them,'Acts 13:1-3 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter) Acts 19:22and having sent to Macedonia two of those ministering to him -- Timotheus and Erastus -- he himself stayed a time in Asia.Acts 19:21-23 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter) Acts 20:34and ye yourselves know that to my necessities, and to those who were with me, minister did these hands;Acts 20:33-35 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter) Acts 24:23having given also a direction to the centurion to keep Paul, to let [him] also have liberty, and to forbid none of his own friends to minister or to come near to him.Acts 24:22-24 (in Context) Acts 24 (Whole Chapter) Romans 15:25And, now, I go on to Jerusalem, ministering to the saints;Romans 15:24-26 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter) Romans 15:27for it pleased well, and their debtors they are, for if in their spiritual things the nations did participate, they ought also, in the fleshly things, to minister to them.Romans 15:26-28 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter) 2 Corinthians 3:3manifested that ye are a letter of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in the tablets of stone, but in fleshy tablets of the heart,2 Corinthians 3:2-4 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 3 (Whole Chapter) 2 Corinthians 8:19and not only so, but who was also appointed by vote by the assemblies, our fellow-traveller, with this favour that is ministered by us, unto the glory of the same Lord, and your willing mind;2 Corinthians 8:18-20 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 8 (Whole Chapter) 2 Corinthians 8:20avoiding this, lest any one may blame us in this abundance that is ministered by us,2 Corinthians 8:19-21 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 8 (Whole Chapter) 1 Timothy 3:10and let these also first be proved, then let them minister, being unblameable.1 Timothy 3:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter) 1 Timothy 3:13for those who did minister well a good step to themselves do acquire, and much boldness in faith that [is] in Christ Jesus.1 Timothy 3:12-14 (in Context) 1 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter) 2 Timothy 1:18may the Lord give to him to find kindness from the Lord in that day; and how many things in Ephesus he did minister thou dost very well know.2 Timothy 1:17-18 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter) Philemon 1:13whom I did wish to retain to myself, that in thy behalf he might minister to me in the bonds of the good news,Philemon 1:12-14 (in Context) Philemon 1 (Whole Chapter) Hebrews 1:7and unto the messengers, indeed, He saith, `Who is making His messengers spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire;'Hebrews 1:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 1 (Whole Chapter) Hebrews 6:10for God is not unrighteous to forget your work, and the labour of the love, that ye shewed to His name, having ministered to the saints and ministering;Hebrews 6:9-11 (in Context) Hebrews 6 (Whole Chapter) 1 Peter 1:12to whom it was revealed, that not to themselves, but to us they were ministering these, which now were told to you (through those who did proclaim good news to you,) in the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, to which things messengers do desire to bend looking.1 Peter 1:11-13 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) 1 Peter 4:10each, according as he received a gift, to one another ministering it, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God;1 Peter 4:9-11 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter) 1 Peter 4:11if any one doth speak -- `as oracles of God;' if any one doth minister -- `as of the ability which God doth supply;' that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory and the power -- to the ages of the ages. Amen.1 Peter 4:10-12 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)


Peacefrog67 8 years ago

Every religious freak in every generation thinks that the "end of times" is upon them. Then they die and a new crop of fanatics think the same thing. Meanwhile life goes on. It is a neverending perpetual cycle.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Peacefrog, Or a cult like Jim Jones and David Koresh come along and they are all killed because they think they are the only ones who can see or hear God and they speak for everyone on the planet.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

I got to thinking some of us can rattle off scripture at a whimm, but because I can or they can rattle off that from the Bible--does that make one better than another or one more qualified to preach the word? What qualifies someone to be a preacher or minister or priest........???


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

That question would make a good hub in it's own right Lady G.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

I did and it is called What Is a Minister


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

I'll check it out later. Got to go now, but rest assured, you're doing a grand job.


BDazzler profile image

BDazzler 8 years ago from Gulf Coast, USA

livelonger, I think that observation is very insightful, as far as my old church goes ... well yeah, I guess the kinda do. Not offically of course, but practically.


Garp 8 years ago

You preachers of gloom bring your own doom. I believe heaven or hell can be created on earth so quit praying for the rapture and try to build a heaven fools.


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

After following this thread with great interest over the past week I now find myself moved by compassion to comment. So here it goes :)

First of all (and perhaps a bit beyond my ability to fully grasp), the intelligence and eloquence found in these postings is truly amazing. Also, in my humble opinion, both the heart and the zeal behind the comments are very powerful indeed.

No doubt this hub started on a topic that is of great interest to many; however, the driving force behind this hub's continuance has primarily been the underlying question of whether the Bible contains truth from God or simply more opinions from people. And I must say, it seems very odd to me that those who believe the Bible to be true are making the strongest case against it being so.

Shades, I agree with you about there being too many private interpretations and poor translations of the Bible; however, I do know the blame for this sad fact does not belong to God. He (the creator) has not failed to communicate accurately and precisely to us (His creation).

Who among us likes to be misunderstood, or quoted out of context, or have our words twisted into a different meaning? I admire the great care that you wonderful people are taking to guard the integrity and accuracey of your opinions; in addition, I would be willing to bet that every one of you demands that your bank is accurate with your money - to the penny (unless perhaps the mistakes are in your favor). So then, why do we think so little of God's willingness and ability in regards to the accuracy of eternal realities?

It was a relief for me to discover that the Bible does says of itself that it interprets itself. Man! What a load off! I was very happy to discover that I could leave my guesswork and preconceived ideas at the door when approaching the Bible.

As good as we may be at communicating our perspectives with precision, God is even moreso, and He is equally willing to do so. Shouldn't we at least give Him the same level of credit and respect we give each other? For the most part, our opinions change like the weather... don't we think it's possible that God's thoughts and ways don't... that they are true... if not forever, at least until tomorrow morning?

Why do people try and convince others that something is true when the people they are trying to convince do not accept the supposed source as being a source for truth? And if the source for truth offers a variety of contradictory ideas how could it then be true? Isn't it possible that truth defines and interprets itself without contradictions? And shouldn't it also fit with true science and everything else that is truly true?

If we don't believe that the Bible contains God's perspective on things, or if we doubt God's perspective as being true, perhaps we have heard to much of some type of counterfeit, or perhaps we have not yet heard enough of the genuine, or perhaps we have heard enough yet refuse to believe. In any case, true or not, the Bible does quote Jesus Christ as saying "I am the way (to God), the truth (about God) and the life (with God). No man comes to the Father except through me." We can take it or leave it.

God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Do we prefer to see things clearly or do we prefer the dark? God is love. Here's our true choice folks: Door #1 - Eternal life with the one true God (with an ever increasing view and joy of the spectacular) or Door #2 - Temporal existence without the one true God.

The Bible quotes God as saying, "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge." Who among us thinks this is referring to knowledge about why Cindy Lou cheated on her boyfriend? Perhaps it's talking about a knowledge about baseball, or maybe it means that His people are destroyed because they lack knowledge about break-dancing?

The Bible declares that mankind in general has rejected God as the source for truth and has formed other belief systems. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I do know that God is probably at least a little smarter than I am, and I kind of figure that I should at least perhaps maybe consider what He has to say about a thing or two regarding that which He made formed and created. And just maybe He is willing and able to do better for me than I am for myself, or others. Maybe He has more in store for me than I have for myself. Maybe He has a longer term perspective on things than I do. Maybe "Father knows best." Nahhhhhhh.......


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

The comments of b4u2c is highly commendable. It is a good example of an inspiring and insightful advice on why we should all believe the Holy Bible to be the Word of God and we should follow its teachings. Thanks again.

May God bless you,

Arkwriter


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Dear Arkwriter,

Sir, Thanks for praying for me and I certainly need it. Infact my mother prays for me too since I was the first one in my family to ever consume meat and hence feels I have bad karma due to this. I feel sad when I read that you feel "others" are not eligible for "heaven". I come from a family of priests in India. My grandfather was a great scholar and could also heal people by his energy(but never advertised about it only a few select family members know about it). There are chakras within the human body which due to certain yogic practices are energized and can be used to help others(ofcourse I don't do any of those practices as I am way too lazy and caught up with my education/career). He used to eat just one simple meal a day, talk very little and practice meditations for long hours. When he can't be in the "heaven" you mentioned then that is very sad conclusion. And doesn't thousands of years of Indian philosophy merit any consideration. The concept of Karma and reincarnation (of which there are even scientific evidence available) should mean something now. The soul may have another chance instead of Heaven or Hell on this same earth depending on his or her karma.

I know my background makes me have certain beliefs that maynot match with yours. I respect your Biblical knowledge and hope you understand my point of view too. Iam sorry sir if I inadvertently said anything that has hurt your beliefs and views.

Sincerely,

CW


Len Cannon profile image

Len Cannon 8 years ago from Brooklyn, NY

No, he's not.

That was easy!


The Old Firm profile image

The Old Firm 8 years ago from Waikato/Bay Of Plenty, New Zealand

Having come to this hub only a short time ago I haven't bothered to read each and every comment and opinion, however what I initially found, I regret appeared to me much like the narrow religious bigotry that lead to the dunking stool. (If you drowned you were christian, if not you were a witch/warlock and were burned at the stake.) In the thirties and later the same attitude lead to the hounding and persecution of persons or families who were "different" by the zealous and high minded. Almost invariably it is cloaked in such homilies as "I'm doing this for your own good," "This is to show you the way," "Ours is the only true religion" "I am God's instrument of punishment" etc ( For "God" you can substitute any favourite Deity.)

It is sad that the same attitude seems alive and thriving today. A little reflection though will give a likely reason why. Whenever a group, country, or the known world goes through hardship some-one or something other than "our own lot" has to be blamed - as in the Dark Ages, the Depression, or Now; so pick a group that you disagree with and call them nasty names!

Thank God (make what you like of that blasphemy) for good ol' Shadesbreath, Sir Dent, and the other trusty rustys for dragging this hub back from deep theological lunacy and the straight and extremely narrow to the broad and wavy sillyness that should make up the real world.

And Arkwriter (nothing directed at you personally, BTW, or any other specific writer, you're all individually reasonable and moderate. It's the collective hysteria winking in the background that I'm railing at) if you want to find the real anti-Christ, just follow these hubs. He ran for President on them and was soundly trounced. One of your opening foundation quotations was misdirected at poor old BO, although you had to bend it a bit to fit. If you took it as written you couldn't have gone wrong;"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon." (Rev. 13:11) It is of course BT Evilpants, a horny hare from a hole in the ground. Check his presidential hub, he's avaricious, dishonest, can be bribed, bought, is promiscuous, has the morals of a rabbit, but apart from these presidential attributes; and only if you search diligently, which I'm sure you will, you will find that he has a myriad of non- and anti- Christian traits, - and he dyes his hare lighter than its natural hue!!

May the Mighty Wabbit be with you.  T.O.F.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Arkwriter - thank you for responding. I am thoroughly familiar with al that you say, but simply don't believe it is true. It must be psychologically damaging to carry around in your head the notion that, for example, Mahatma Ghandi will now spend eternity being roasted in burning sulphur and being eaten by worms, simply because he was not your flavour of Christian. I mention Ghandi because he's generally reckoned to have been a thoroughly good man of peace. Please confirm that you believe his fate is eternal torment?

Isn't it patently stupid to believe such nonsense?


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Countrywomen, in your unfailing courtesy you are a model to us all. I was brought up Christian, though I am not one any more, and I simply do not recognise Arkwriter's extremism as Christianity. The Christian community that I am used to is inclusive and welcoming and does not threaten decent people with hellfire or go around labelling people 'antichrist'.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Paraglider - Thanks for that compliment. In matters of Faith one has to be very sensitive and open to see things from different perspectives. Especially since I come from a different background compared to the faiths from in and around Jerusalem (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). I felt personally very sad when I read that comment and remembered my departed grandfather. I don't know if Gandhi would be considered as a man of peace by one and all (as even in his time he wasn't considered for the Nobel Peace Prize). I have met many christians both in my student days(while pursuing my MS) and work colleagues who have always been very nice to me.


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

To the tune of the AC/DC song (but with a slight play on words), To those about THE Rock - I solute you! To those who think the rock is a crock, I doubt you will read what follows, but if you do, may you too find something edifying.

"All the promises of God in him [Christ] are yea, and in him amen, unto the glory of God" (2 Corinthians. 1:20). As we are chosen in Christ (Ephesians. 1:4), as we are accepted in him (Ephesians. 1:6), as we shall appear with him in glory (Colossians. 3:3), so are we beloved in him - “nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord”, for that union is indissoluble (permanent; binding: an indissoluble contract; an indissoluble union. Impossible to dissolve, disintegrate, or decompose).

God loves us in Christ, it is not regulated by our fruitfulness, but is the same at all times.  Our Father loves us in Christ and He loves us as He loves His dear son Jesus Christ. Jesus prayed, “that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me" (John 17:23). Only God can give us this kind of knowledge. God loves us in Christ: What infinite delight the Father has as He beholds His people in His dear son! All of our blessings flow from that precious fountain of Christ Jesus our lord.

God’s love to us did not begin with our love for Him. No, "we love him, because he first loved us" (1 John 4:19). We do not first give to Him that He may return to us again. Our transformation is not the motive of His love; rather His love is the reason why we get to accept the good news of grace regarding our new identity in Christ, and thereby be transformed into a thing of beauty. God’s love calls to us, “Hey kids, come and try it out, my will is beneficial, it is well pleasing, and you will see that it is perfect.”

Not only are the recipients of God’s love often at their worst when His love is first revealed to them, but actually they are often doing the worst things they could possibly be doing against Him, as in the case of Saul of Tarsus (and perhaps some of these hubbers). But look at what became of Saul - The Apostle Paul! God’s love for us was borne in His heart toward us long before we were delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the Kingdom of His dear son.

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10). God loved us while we were dead in trespasses and sin, without God we didn’t even have a particle of love towards Him or faith in Him; yes, even when we were sinners and enemies of God He loved us (Romans 5:8-10).  Clearly, God’s love for us is not out of obligation.

It is because God loves us in Christ that the gifts of His love are irrevocable. He has loved us from before the foundations of the world! His gifts to us are the bestowal of "the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." The love of God indeed makes a change in us when it is "shed abroad in our hearts," but it makes no change in Him. He may have varied the dispensations of His providence toward His people, but that is not because His affection has altered. Even when He chastens us (to train up a child), it is in love (Heb. 12:6), because He has our good in view.

Having loved us, He called us; he made us His children, and is now bringing us into the evidences of the newness of life we have in Christ – RIGHT NOW! "Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the children of God (AND WE ARE!)… Beloved, now are we the children of God! (1John 3:1a and 2a).

God’s love is relentless. "I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely" (Hosea 14:4), without reluctance or hesitation. "Many waters cannot quench love; neither can the floods drown it" (Song of Solomon 8:7). Such is God’s love to us - invincible, unquenchable. Not only is there no possibility of it expiring, but not even the black waters of sin extinguish it, nor do the floods of unbelief put it under. This love from our Father for us, His children, is for all eternity. God is love. Our Father will always be our Father! He never changes.

I hope none of us think that it was nothing for our heavenly Father to give His only begotten son (His wonderful, perfect, incredible, and awesome son) to be put to death by way of such a horrendous torture, in the place of those who stand against His purposes, those who “dead in trespasses and sins” work against Him so fervently. Yet from the great love wherewith He loved us, He made us alive while we were against him - even then he loved us. How could we ever doubt God’s love for us knowing what He and our Lord Jesus Christ have done for us, and knowing what we have been made to be in Christ? The love of God is invincible: it overcomes all difficulties.

God’s love draws the affections of our hearts closer to His affections as we continue in acceptance and confidence regarding the good news of Christ. God will indeed make His wondrous love to us the primary mover of our walk with Him. Real devotion to God arises, not from our will to show it; but from the discovery that blessing has been received from God while we were yet unworthy and undevoted. To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure.


The Old Firm profile image

The Old Firm 8 years ago from Waikato/Bay Of Plenty, New Zealand

Verily, I have been smote by the jawbone of an ass.


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

lol... good one TOF :)


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

So, b4u2c - I did read all of that and didn't find it edifying. I've heard it many times before. And it doesn't answer my question about Ghandi - Is he to suffer eternal torment or not?


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Of course he isn't! But they don't like to say either way because the truth is they don't really know.


Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal 8 years ago from India

If Gandhi were to be judged as a husband and a father, yes, most definitely Paraglider - if of course, you believe in eternal hellfire! As a leader of the people, he was stupendous I'll agree.

By the way, isn't the antichrist supposed to come out of the line of Judah???


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Judah wasn't a Kenyan was he? LOL


Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal 8 years ago from India

haha Amanda - one of the lost tribes? bears looking into!!


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

I have found that the extremists usually back down when asked very direct questions that are logical consequences of their extremism. They're never very keen on explaining exactly what their eternal worm is going to do either ;)


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Countrywomen,

Reading through your comments on this hub I feel that you are a good person with a gentle nature.  God bless you.  I can also understand your sadness about your grandfather not making it to heaven according to what I wrote about salvation.  I do not make the rules regarding how to get to heaven.  Only the One True God makes the rules and He has given this authority to His Son Jesus Christ.

“For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.  He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.  Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment , but has passed from death into life.” (Jn. 5:22-24)

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not sent His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.  He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (Jn. 3:16-18)

God has made this rule of salvation for every person on earth.  This same rule applies to everyone on earth, to you Countrywomen, to your grandfather, to Paraglider, to Ghandhi, to Barack Hussein Obama, to every hubber who writes comments on this hub, and of course also to me.

You cannot do anything about your grandfather.  He was responsible for his own life and salvation.  But you can do something about your own life and your own salvation. 

Countrywomen, I know about the Hindu religion.  I have preached to them in Malaysia and in India.  One time I was with a group of Christian workers preaching in a rubber plantation in Tanjong Tualang, Perak, Malaysia.  The plantation workers were mostly Indians who believed in the Hindu gods.  At first not one of them came to our meeting.  We started praying and asked the Lord Jesus Christ to guide them.  One by one came forward to hear the Word of God.  There were about 20 men, women and children listening to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

While we were still preaching one man who was hiding behind a rubber tree came forward and stood in front of us.  He was wearing a saffron robe and had ashes on his forehead.  He introduced himself and told us he was a Hindu priest.  He said he knew a group of Christian workers would be coming to the plantation and he had been fasting and praying that his Hindu god would not let those who followed him to become Christians.  He said his prayers worked at the beginning when not one of his followers came to our meeting.  But later he saw us praying and he also saw one by one of his followers came to our Christian meeting.  He felt he had lost all his power.  Then he took off his saffron robe and threw it on the ground, a symbolic rite of giving up the Hindu priesthood.  He said, “Your Christian God is more powerful than my Hindu god.  I want to follow your God.”  He then openly confessed Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.  JESUS  is  LORD.

I have preached in India three times in different years and God has brought hundreds of Hindus to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.  You may read about a powerful testimony of how “God poured down rain on Indian Village after Ministers prayed”  Click here:  http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/prayerchan

Countrywomen, you may write to me:   arkpw@sbcglobal.net

May God bless you,

Arkwriter


sunforged profile image

sunforged 8 years ago from Sunforged.com

ha Ha!

My 666th unread email today from 'Christian dating .com " Lets put your complicated numerolgy experience to work and decode the signifcance!

Penis fencing hub just beat antichrist hub in the final furlong of the hot hubs race.

Countrywomen be wary of those with silver tongues and flawed theology who preach of admittance to heaven, their are anti -christs hiding under every bushel

On a serious note - since everyone is so up in arms - ive always wondered on the stance of zealots on the blissful ignorants and their final destination.

The mentally challenged , blind/deaf, primitives living in some hidden canyon -these uninformed how will they ever reach heaven? get out of jail free card ?, condemned to purgatory ?- sucks for you ?- how does the big man measure their mettle?

-I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Revelation, 2. 4

speaking of taking the bible literally?

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover

whatever became of these prophesied ones? Can you drink arsenic laced coffee? have you tested it yet?


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Following that logic Sunforged, it would seem to be a rather elitist religion. I would hope that God would have a large enough embrace to hold all mankind whether or not they'd heard the word!


EmbracingTheTruth 8 years ago

By using the same calculation as in the last video I'm the anti-christ as well....Interesting hub, I don't agree with Obama's religion, but I do believe he'll be a good leader, I guess time will tell.


PenmanZee profile image

PenmanZee 8 years ago

I feel like a traitor speaking against Ark and other Christians who espouse beliefs similar to this hub but then, I will not support what I don't believe. Your mention of Mahatma Gandhi, one of the people I greatly admire, made a statement that should concern all Christians. He said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi/) If I were not a believer in Jesus Christ, the writer of this hub should not have convinced me to become one.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

So, Arkwriter, you 'have a delicacy' about saying to Countrywomen exactly what you think has happened to her grandfather, and what you think has happened to Ghandi. You have backed down. {{ I can also understand your sadness about your grandfather not making it to heaven according to what I wrote about salvation.}} Tell us again, sir, if you don't make it to heaven, where do you go?? What happens to you there?? You are, deep down, ashamed of your belief - that good honest people will roast forever and be eaten by worms. You are happy with it 'in general', but you are ashamed to apply it to real cases. Because you know it is a foul belief, and deeply unchristian in the normal sense of that word.


SirDent 8 years ago

What happens there Paraglider, is that they will be in torment. Worms will eat at their flesh, but never consume them completely. There are also worms which were used for dye. There will be no dye, (covering for your shame). A note to make sure it is understood. Hell was created for the devil and his angels. Man was never intended to go there.

To answer Amanda, God's embrace is certainly large enough to embrace all men. But there are many who resist, and since God is a gentleman, He will not force the issue.

I repeat something I stated earlier.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Whosoever includes every person who ever lived or is alove today. Sme who lived before will nto have a chance now since they had died already. Those who died before Jesus were preached to while in the grave and the ones who believed Jesus came out with Him.

The next resurrection will be those who died in the Lord Jesus Christ. This will happen before the Tribulation period.

What other questions need answered here? It is not an elitist group. It is merely salvation comes by only one. That salvation can only come by Jesus Christ.

Many talk about Ghandi, Buddha, Muhammad, etc. . . Which one can measure up and be equal with God?


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

((What happens there Paraglider, is that they will be in torment. Worms will eat at their flesh, but never consume them completely.}}

Maybe Arkwriter will coroborate? And this is what's happening to my parents even now, and billions of other poor souls? That is a sick, perverted belief of which you should be ashamed.


SirDent 8 years ago

Paraglider, God made a way for all men to not go there. The Way was ordained from before the foundation of the world. Not one person had to go there before and none have to go there now. It is a choice that is made by each individual.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

The Lord Jesus Christ has actually said it very clearly.  "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection  of life, and those who have done evil. to the resurrection of condemnation." (Jn. 5:28-29)

Some religions teach reincarnation. The Bible teaches there are only two final destinations of man in the afterlife.  Either he is going to heaven or to hell.  "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." (Heb. 9:27) 

There will be a Judgment when the Lord Jesus Christ returns.  Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, follow all His teachings and keep God's commandments wiill enter Heaven (Rev. 22:12-14).  "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be His God and he will be My son.  But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:7-8)

Some people do not think there is such a place as hell where the "worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46, 48)  They can think what they like, but it is not a place where you want to go.  Please click here:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/hellisreal

Others think God is too good and will not punish people for not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ as long as they lead a good life on earth.  Man's concept of goodness is not the same as God's goodness.  To God "we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away." (Isaiah 64:6) Only the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ can remit our sins and this is reason why we have to accept Him as our One and Only LORD and Savior.

As a Christian minister I just preach the same gospel as Jesus and the Apostles preached.  I do not try to change the truth of the gospel and tell people they can join any religion they like and they can still make it to heaven.  The Lord Jesus Christ Himself has declared that He is the way, the truth and the life. No man can go to the Father God except through Him (Jn. 14:6).

Jesus said the condition of the world will be like the time of Noah before His Return (Mt 24:37-39)  This is the condition of the world during Noah's time.  "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." This world will be destroyed by fire after Jesus returns to take the saints to heaven with Him (2 Pet. 3:8-12)

Preaching heaven is edifying and preaching hellfire is repugnant to many people.  Jesus and the Apostles preached both, and so I make no apologies for preaching heaven and hell.

May God bless you.

Arkwriter 


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Not so Sir Dent!

The First resurrection comes after Christ return. The Second resurrection come at the end of the Millenium, Revelations 20:4-6,7-14. the second resurrection corresponds to the Last Great Day of the Feast of tabernacles Leviticus 23:36, John 7;36-39 Matthew. The Holy Spirit will  be available to all then. Those that are raised up then naturally will have to repent of their sins.

Worms will not continue to eat flesh forever because the earth will be burned up and be made clean before God the Father comes down to dwell with us, Revelation 20:14 and 2 Peter 3:8-10-13. Worms do not die but turn into flies and fly away. This will be before the earth is purified.

The Lionswhelp

-


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Not so Sir Dant!

The First resurrection comes after Christ return. The Second resurrection come at the end of the Millenium, Revelations 20:4-6,7-14. the scond resurrection corresponds to the Last Great Day of the Feast of tabernacles Leviticus 23:36, John 7;36-39 Matthew. The Holy Spirit will be available to all then. Thoase that are raised up then naturally will have to repent of their sins.

Worms will not continue to eat flesh forever because the earth will be burned up and be made clean before God ther Father comes down to dwell with us, Revelation 20:14 and 2 Peter 3:8-10-13. Worms do not die but turn into flies and fly away. This will be before the earth is purified.

The Lionswhelp

-


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

Paraglider, I did back down, to bed that is. Actually, I don't have much self-pride regarding my opinions about the things of God (you may have noticed all of the quotation marks in my previous post). Sorry brother, but hey, what can I say, I'm not God (even though I act like I think I am at times). Anyways, so to the question you asked me, "Ghandi - Is he to suffer eternal torment or not?" No he's not. I am familiar with the scriptures that people use to back that BS, and they are pulled out of context and twisted to communicate a lie. But rest assured, it didn't come from the God who breathed the Bible into our hands.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Arkwriter - {{The Lord Jesus Christ has actually said it very clearly. "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil. to the resurrection of condemnation." (Jn. 5:28-29)}}

OK, so it's all about deeds then, not faith after all. That's fine because that lets Ghandi and Countrywomen's grandfather in after all. It's only you & Sir D that are trying to keep them out!!


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

This all sounds a lot like one of those clubs where you have to have lots of money, or the right background and contacts to join. These clubs are probably no more exciting than the average working man's club, but of course they are exclusive which is the whole point of joining.


John Juneau profile image

John Juneau 8 years ago from Sierra Nevadas

Welcome b4u2c. Looking forward to hubs you will write. God bless.


SirDent 8 years ago

Lionswhelp, I suggest you read the scriptures.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Paraglider, it isn't up to me nor Arkwriter who gets in and who doesn't. It is up to God. It isn't something that happens by chance. The path is clearly made. Jesus Christ made the Way and in fact is the Way. There is no other way. It is not about deeds. Faith comes first but faith produces works.

Amanda, how much does it cost you to love your children? How much does it cost your children to love you? There is only one door to the "club" as you put it. The door is always open. One must simply go through it.


christine almaraz profile image

christine almaraz 8 years ago from colorado springs

"Be bold in what you stand for-and careful what you fall for." a quote that I think alot of people should take head to. one more thing, to judge or imply that someone is th anti-christ is very dangerous and irresponsible. God is an all loving God, shouldn't you follow by example and be an all loving spirit?


Ted Smith profile image

Ted Smith 8 years ago from Bath, England.

Quite simply, you make me want to weep.


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

Thank you for the warm welcome and encouragement John :) I too look forward to hearing more from, and sharing more with, all of you fantastic hubbers. These hubs obviously offer a great avenue for seeking and sharing the thoughts and ways of God. I pray that as we all weed through the bombardment of opinions, at the forefront of it all, we are looking to God alone in our search for what is true. I am currently working on a paper entitled "Walking on Water," addressed to people who already consider the Bible to be from God. I am also considering a presentation regarding the inherent and inherent accuracy and evidence of the Bible and its origin for those who don't believe but would like to. But much more important to me than these activities, I am looking for posts from those of you who appear to be interested in the discovery and presentation of God's take on things. No offense anyone, and not that our personal ideas and opinions don't have their place, I simply consider that God's thoughts and ways are higher than ours, and after all, there are only so many hours in the day :)


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

Some people quote the apostle Paul's statement in Romans 2:14-15 to say that you don't have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.  "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these although not having the law, are a law in themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them).  Paul did not stop there.  Here in the next verse he wrote, "in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." (Rom. 2:16)

Make no mistake about this; every person on earth will be judged by the Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:22,30).  Do you think the Lord Jesus Christ will let any person who does not believe in Him go to heaven?  The answer is "NO". 

"Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.  He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31)

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear to bear the sins of many.  To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." (Heb. 9:27-28)

May God bless you. 

HAVE  A  HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Arkwriter


The Old Firm profile image

The Old Firm 8 years ago from Waikato/Bay Of Plenty, New Zealand

I refer you to John 11:35

If you think that I do so in support of this hubs contentions, you are wrong.

Go after the jackalope.


chrisc 8 years ago

Wow you have done a lot of research. Interesting. I hope that you keep in mind that this is what you've came to the conclusion to, but don't try to at all force everyone else to believe. I remember reading that the teacher is punished more severely than their students, and so be very very very careful in whom you preach this to.

Truthfully, I myself could gives a rat's ass if Obama is the antiChrist. If God didn't want these events to occur, He would've been stopped it. Lets all sit back and enjoy this ride because what God has store is inevitable, and obviously, the coming of the AntiChrist is inevitable. But do be cautious who you preach these ideas to. The internet is a grand place, and someone could just swipe this idea of yours and decide to cause havoc because of it. Then that would mean you have some part of it. Its said that when we die, we feel the full effects of what happened to those we affected in our lifetime.

All I'm saying is watch your words and be prepare for the actions that follow because of them. There is a small chance that you are right, but its not worth the confusion and potential chaos you may give to the world.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Arwriter - Sir, Thanks for that invitation to join Christianity. I had mentioned about reincarnation about which their is some scientific evidence(unlike many other aspects about which one just has to have "faith"). I do know some quotes from our scriptures which you maynot consider even as "scriptures". Even I have met many people who have converted from christianity to Islam or even to Vedic religions (Does ISKCON sound familiar?). Each individual or group may have their own personal reasons to choose the path they want to traverse. My life has been perfect (which I believe to be the outcome of my past karma) right from the childhood had wonderful parents, relatives and friends. I got the best education both in India and US. Got an opportunity to work in one of the finest companies in the world. All this I believe is due to some good karma I must have committed in my past births.

I have met many christians and their inclusive philosophy still gives me hope to trust that the large section of christianity which still believes that it is left upto "God to judge us" and meanwhile we can be as kind & loving as possible to all living entities.

SirDent- Sir, Your conclusion about my grandfather, Gandhi and scores of other great souls (who may have been born and raised in different cultures apart from the Judaic regions) that "they will be in torment. Worms will eat at their flesh, but never consume them completely." is so unlike the kind & loving image of Christianity I have had. I have personally tried to forget that earlier comment(in palestine hub) where since I didn't call Arafat as a terrorist you labelled me as a "terrorist". Sir, I feel sad to see that you have a lower level of acceptance of people who don't subscribe to your beliefs and views.

I know this time I have said things which maynot be as polite as possible. I sometimes feel it's better to say it out then keep it bottled up in the heart. But still I ask for forgiveness for any of my words. If I can't bring happiness to someone atleast I shouldn't be the cause of their pain.

Also I thank Paraglider, Amanda, Sunforged, Penmanzee and others who have not made me feel so bad about my departed grandpa and his final journey.

By the way Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.

Sincerely,

CW


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

Let's not put God in a box that He hasn't put Himself in. According to 1 Timothy 2:4 it is God's will that everyone is saved and comes to knowledge of truth. I don't see any time limits to God's grace in the verses quoted throughout this hub (or elsewhere in the Bible). Do any of you? Also, where does the Bible teach the opportunity to accept God's way ends with the death of these earthly bodies? Let's not magnify God' will above His ability. It seems to me that a false belief system has been read into the Bible, not from it. It's the goodness of God that leads someone's heart to seeing things His way, not the fear of His holy justice. If any of us consider ourselves to be ministers of the gospel, than let's minister THE gospel and quit trying to give people unbiblical fire and brimstone unltimatums.

"But God commendeth his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."  This word “commend" means to make known by action, to demonstrate, to show.

Towards who is God’s love demonstrated? Towards us!

There is no doubt God seeks to show us the reality of His love. What could demonstrate His love for us if the Cross does not? God’s love is perfectly and gloriously revealed in the great sacrifice of Jesus Christ! The grace of Calvary makes divine love stand out prominently before the universe! What else could God have done that would show his love so effectually?

God shows that his love is unselfish, for Christ did not die for us as friends, but as enemies. On this point, Paul suggests that "scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet peradventure for a good man, some would even dare to die." There have been soldiers who have sacrificed their lives for a beloved officer; but even this sacrifice is scarcely made. How much less for an enemy! BUT "God commendeth his love to us, in that, while we were yet enemies, Christ died for us!"

We also notice that this love of God cannot be the love of merited favor, because there was no ground in us for such a love. It can be none other than the love of unselfish benevolence and unmerited favor. In the Garden of Eden Satan cast suspicion on the benevolence of God by saying, “Hath your God indeed said, ye shall not eat of every tree in the garden?" Despite Satan’s trickery, God wasn’t holding anything good back from Adam and Eve, and He’s not holding anything good back from us.

God also commends the great strength of this love. We might think giving a friend a great sum of money is evidence of strong love. But what is any sum of money compared with giving up a dear son to die? That God’s only begotten son, in whom He was well pleased, should not only labor for and suffer for, but should also die for God’s enemies! Where else can love like this be seen?

God’s love is all the more expressive because Jesus himself was sinless. While Jesus Christ stood in the position as the sinner’s substitute before God’s throne of justice, God could not spare him, but laid on him the chastisement of our iniquities. Oh what a rebuke of sin was that! This clearly shows that God abhors sin, yet loves the sinner!

God sets forth Jesus crucified before our eyes--a far more expressive thing than any mere words. Just saying that He loved us could never come close to the strength and impressiveness of Christ crucified. In no other way could God make His love for us so much a reality--so comforting and so encouraging. Thus he commends it to our regard, inviting us to weigh this great truth of His love for us in Christ and examine all its bearings.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Sir Dent,

Matthew 27:52 is speaking of specific miracles that were done when Jesus died. This is not the Big Resurrection for the House of israel and the House of Judah,see Ezekiel 37:1-5,24, Acts 2:29-36; Acts 13:36. There will be a resurrection of the first groupof aints when Jesus Christ returns and then at the end of the Millenium all who had not understood from Adam to the Second coming of Jesus will be invited to join God's family then.

 I'm sure that some have been resurrected down through the ages because they trusted in God. The apostle Paul was stoned to three times and left for death but was revived, 2 Corinthians 11:23-25. So was a woman named Tabiths in Lydia, Acts 9:36-42. Miracles still exist today its a matter of faith and belief that God hears us and will raise the dead when needed.

This is a good Hub in that it brings to light that things are getting near the end of human confusion. God's word was meant to be controversial to stir people to action. No pain no gain! If you lived over seas like in China, North Korea or Africa or any Moslem country there is plenty of persecution and many even survive death after being killed. Not all but some few for now.

The Lionswhelp


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Sir Dent,

Matthew 27:52 is speaking of specific miracles that were done when Jesus died. This is not the Big Resurrection for the House of israel and the House of Judah,see Ezekiel 37:1=`5,24, A2:29-36; Acts 13:36. There will be a resurrection of the first groupof aints when Jesus Christ returns and then at the end of the Millenium all who had not understood from Adam to the Second coming of Jesus will be invited to join God's family then.

I'm sure that some have been resurrected down through the ages because they trusted in God. The apostle Paul was stoned to three times and left for death but was revived, 2 Corinthians 11:23-25. So was a woman named Tabiths in Lydia, Acts 9:36-42. Miracles still exist today its a matter of faith and belief that God hears us and will raise the dead when needed.

This is a good Hub in that it brings to light that things are getting near the end of human confusion. God's word was meant to be controversial to stir people to action. No pain no gain! If you lived over seas like in China, North Korea or Africa or any Moslem country there is plenty of persecution and many even survive death after being killed. Not all but some few for now.

The Lionswhelp


Gold Writer profile image

Gold Writer 8 years ago from Colorado

If the biblical prophesies are true:

Doesn't this have to happen?

What is the big deal some of us die (possibly even me included) to get to the end result?

Why do we need to worry about this?

Que sera sera my friend whatever will be will be; especially if it is ordained by the higher power. I find this to be an amazing article in the art of reasoning, however the connection drawn are not necessarily proven. Time will tell all, until then I wish you all to live profitable lives.


findingmyzen 8 years ago

This is the absolutely ignorant. Anyone with the same number of letters in their name can claim themselves 666. I personally do not believe in Christ, I am not christian and I see no proof..the bible does not support TRUTH. Evolution however, does. And the whole Anti-christ bit...there have been many people since the dawn of days that have been hailed as the Anti-Christ, but then again we have several new ones. Saddam Hussein and whats his name, the man that sent his stupid servants to blow up the twin towers to commit suicide and think they are going to heaven with 72 virgins....Oh I wish I remembered his name. This world has become crazy about religion. Be a little more open minded..Barack Obama is not the anti-Christ, I knew he would win since day one of the elections and I am a proud supporter him. He has already help to make changes in this economy. And you know why several countries agreed upon him-Because we have to make mends with those countries, they like Obama and that means a better future for all of us. Screw Bush and screw the Religious people that want to control the earth.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

I think that findingmyzen makes a valid point about Obama. Seldom does a national leader of any nation chime well with people internationally, but Mr Obama has achieved this. As a representative of the American Nation, he is already well on the way to mending bridges with nations that have fallen out of love with the American dream. This is beneficial for the USA surely?


ajewoleoladayo 8 years ago

u all have a good idear,i belive in mistyuorizon2003s comment


thejimster profile image

thejimster 8 years ago

Some people said the exact same thing about Bush. Now some people take on Obama. Believe, me, Obama is no antichrist.

In fact, if there was no Christ, how could there be an Antichrist?


Dierdre 8 years ago

You guys are all wrong. Reagan was the Antichrist. *sigh* Look what he did to the mental health system, to veterans, and to the national debt! Gah, I see this with every single election, and it gets not only old, but frustrating. There's a new crop of young 'Christians' out there spreading hatespeak with every single election with the notable exception of Jimmy Carter. I do have to agree though, that there was absolutely no way that Carter could have been the antichrist. Not only was he too nice, he was not the best choice for the leader of our country at that time. I woulda said 'lousy president' but the last eight years has given me a lot more respect for the Carter administration.

Guys, there are just not that many accounts that we can prove are unadulterated by the Council of Nice. For those of you in Rio Linda (ty Rush) that is the council that decided what books were going in the Bible, and which were excluded. There's other books out there, the Gnostic Gospels and such, which were excluded because the bishops didn't like them, they didn't gel with the ideas that the bishops had at the time, they were written by women, and multiple other reasons.

The Catholic/Eastern Orthodox religions got together at Nice and decided what THE TRUTH was, and the different churches have been going on this ever since. Read some actual ancient history that catalogues what really happened and try to make it jive with the Bible. Things don't pan out exactly the same. Why do you think that is? It's because MEN got together and decided what GOD said. Just like you guys who want to make Obama out to be the Antichrist are doing now.

Get a grip. The guy isn't the Antichrist.

"Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Hatemongering and rabblerousing aren't listed.

~Dierdre


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Dear Country woman,

Don't worry your grandpa and grandma and mind also are resting still in their graves waiting for God to resurrect them. Likewise king Soloman said in Ecclesiastes3:1-22. We all go to the same place to wait, both animals and humans. The opportunity to receive Eternal life is offered to all humans and most will gain it when their time comes.

The Lionswhelp


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Dear Country woman,

Don't worry your grandpa and grandma and mind also are resting still in their graves waiting for God to resurrect them. Likewise king Soloman said in Ecclesiastes3:1-22. We all go to the same place to wait, both animals and humans. The opportunity to receive Eternal life is offered to all humans and most will gain it when their time comes.

The Lionswhelp


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

I am glad you mentioned animals in this comment Lionswhelp, although I have slightly different beliefs in as much as I believe animals and deceased loved ones are already in the afterlife/Heaven awaiting their loved ones arrival. Depending on what kind of life they lived determines which level they arrive in Heaven on, and those Souls on higher plains can visit those on lowers plains, until the ones on the lower plains spiritually advance enough to progress upwards themselves. I also believe this Spiritual advancement is achieved by reincarnation many times over, and that each time we return we choose the experiences we will go through in this new life. What we learn from these experiences, and how we respond to them, determines the Spiritual Plane we return to once we leave this earth again.

I like to think of our lives on Earth as being like "School Time" where we learn lessons. When we pass over again it is 'Play Time, or Break Time', where we evaluate what we have learned, are reunited with our lost loved ones, and prepare for our next incarnation.


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Lionswhelp- if you meant wherever their souls are now instead of grave as Hindus cremate(burn) the dead body.

Misty- Glad to see someone here who believes in reincarnation (as that is one of the few aspects of faith that has some scientific evidence). My beliefs in this matter are exactly the same and adding to that also based on our karma we get another body & opportunity to progress further.


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Hi CW

I also believe in re-incarnation, as I have had some quite specific past-life memories, and I know other people who have had a similar experience. No doubt that will definitely put me beyond the pale with others following this hub! (LOL!)


countrywomen profile image

countrywomen 8 years ago from Washington, USA

Amanda - Well I guess you can write a hub about your reincarnation experiences. There have been many real life experiences, medical journals and so on in this regard. Here is a hub that suggests such a possibility for people who aren't aware of this eastern concept: http://hubpages.com/education/Reincarnation-myth-o

Whether you will be beyond the pale Iam not sure....hehe


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Thanks CW,

I actually read Terence's hub a while back, but it's a great hub, and certainly worth re-reading. I don't think there's sufficient detail in my memories to weave an entire hub about, but you've certainly set me thinking!


The Old Firm profile image

The Old Firm 8 years ago from Waikato/Bay Of Plenty, New Zealand

Countrywomen, Amanda et al, I don't believe in reincarnation. I used to, but that was in another life.


The Old Firm profile image

The Old Firm 8 years ago from Waikato/Bay Of Plenty, New Zealand

(Damned computer's got the hiccups, perhaps it's suffering from Satanic possession. And CW, dat aint a cat, dat am a fat little mouse. Squeak bloody Squeak!


Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal 8 years ago from India

I think Gold Writer's made a valid point: if the antichrist is here, doesn't that mean one step closer to the final day? Then what are those who are supposed to have been a part of the bride or the pre-trib rapture doing here? Been left behind???? Maybe we'll hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth soon!

Not squeak TOF, LOL!!!


josephdiego profile image

josephdiego 8 years ago from Eastern Long Island , New York

Give me a freakin break, don't people have anything to do but tear people apart. Keep on looking for the anti whatever you will find em. Seek and you will find. Instead of looking for the bad in people why can't we look for the good or GOD! That way if I find good/God I will have it by my side, so I can deal better with these anti-whatever people.

Come on guys what a waste of energy on negative B-S. Let’s put that same energy towards helping, understanding and loving one another.

I did not waste my time reading this article; I just glanced through the bullets. I let the smart guys like t.keely read this type of stuff he might understand it. "Nothing personal brother"

What I'm saying is, I don't know about this stuff and I don't care to know. When it comes to this stuff you can keep it.

I'd rather focus on the good, right, clean and pure love. I'm sorry, I was part of the negative and that brought me nothing but pain, distrust, anger, hate and wretchedness. Been there done it, you can keep it!

Just look at how many people feed into this stuff, Just take a count.

Now take a look at my hub which is about loving and caring about your fellow brothers and sisters on this world. I'll bet anybody that buy the end of the month, I won't have a 1/4 of the traffic as this hub.... Why is that? http://hubpages.com/misc/Why-are-there-people-in-A...

But that’s OK, because I know that if or when I meet my creator. I am not going to be judged by what everybody else does. I will be judged by my thoughts and actions.

So I'll just make sure that my side of the street is clean, and if you need some help with yours, let me know I'll be there for you.

Peace, Love, Life, Health, Happiness and the antichrist can kiss my a- -. Opps sorry got carried away... God bless the antichrist. "That was the Old me coming back out....Sorry... I still Love ya... JosephDiego


josephdiego profile image

josephdiego 8 years ago from Eastern Long Island , New York

Oh Yeah, I forgot. I’m still hearing many Obama Jokes. http://hubpages.com/misc/NoMoreBarackObamaJokesPle...

Change is good, read his books. If you don’t know the man, find out what he’s all about. I think many people are stuck on his color, not on the man. All I know is. That, I stood behind Bush all of the way. Out of respect. To me it wasn’t about you or me voting on a person. The decision was made by the United States of America, and I support The U.S.A. all of the way…

Peace, Love, Life, Health, Happiness and Massive Success…. JosephDiego


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 8 years ago from UK

Joseph

Both your hubs are well worth reading, and make a VERY pleasant change from the misery and gloom that is the the bread and meat of this hub!


b4u2c profile image

b4u2c 8 years ago from The Kingdom of God's Dear Son

Has anyone here seen “The Passion of Christ”?  If so, do you remember when it was that Jesus (the "Messiah" character in the movie) said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?” I think it was when he was hanging there from the cross, brutally beaten, spat upon, mocked, despised, rejected, humiliated and about to die. Because I remember thinking, "Wow! The wrong guy is nailed to that cross, that isn't fair - God isn't fair."  But then I thought, "OH MY! That isn't fair to God and to Christ." And then I thought, "Holy shit! God's love is really big!"

 


findingmyzen 8 years ago

The passion of the Christ tried to depict a great happening from the bible and while I have to admit it was much more than I thought it was, I would go and watch it again. Also about the reincarnation, I used to be a heavy believer in that, I have had several strange dreams that I cannot recall, but they seemed so familiar, not to mention I have been in the Astral Plane once many years ago, but alas I was kicked out by a spirit because I did not belong there, lol. Reincarnation can explain many events of people and animals as well. But in the recent years I have fallen out of that idea. I believe only what I have seen and I surely have not seen the so called "rapture" No one has dissapeared mysteriously. I believe the idea of the bible was to somehow give us a sense of how we got here and everyone claims "have faith in the lord", for god sakes have faith in yourself, you don't need a higher power to make yourself into a better person. I wish HUBPAGES would take down this article of Obama being an anti-christ. It's rediculous.


findingmyzen 8 years ago

I hate when the comments don't go through......


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Well, not quite Countrywomen & Misty. All are still in the grave as far as Solomon knew in his day. I have five dogs and one cat now. We have had to bury others that died or were killed by accidents down through the years. I know that Disney movie said all dogs go to heaven. Well in a sense that is true because God counts every sparrow that falls dead to the ground,Matthew 10:29-31..

We humans are more valuable that birds, dogs and cats. It is our souls or spirit in us that returns to God, even that of animals, Ecclesiates 3:17-22.. God keeps the records of each and everything created. God loved us humans so much that Jesus died for us humans. This doesn't mean that he will only accept humans. God's grand purpose for us is Eternal life. In Their kingdom without pain, sin or death. I'm sure if you want old Rover back or that favorite cat or bird that gave you so much joy in life, it can be restored to you as be part of your life forever. As your friends even though they still will be spirit animals. God will not destroy the things that are good but only the evil things.

Think about it If God is going to change the nature of animals to be peaceful during the Millenium and that they will eat straw instead of each other and humans. There is just nothing good that God will withhold from us as long as it is part of His will, Isaiah 11:6-16.

Both my mother and father were cremated instead of being buried in hell or the ground. Flesh in the grave also deteriorates over time. This is no problem for God because he has your soul or spirit tape that has you recorded in the book of life, Revelation 20;12-13. If you lived and never understood who God really is, this will be the time of understanding and knowledge for most humans. Satan the devil will no longer be around to deceive you.

Though some think that the life we live today is the only time to be saved, well they are wrong. This includes a lot of Christians that believe contrary to God's written Way. that now is the only day of salvation.

They are wrong of course because they never understood God's plan of salvation which is recorded in Leviticus 23, and many other Old Testament and New Testament writtings for us. Yes, happy days are ahead for us humans. Satan knows his time is short and will try the best that he can to deceive and destroy us, but he will fail. You can wait until Christ returns, you may have not choice in the matter now but if you are seeking, asking, and knocking there is a good possiblity the door can be opened to you. Most humans just have not understood this "Way" of God, John 14:6-7.

I don't know if you are called now or not. But God does! I personally prefer to be called now since I had been seeking the truth all these years. It will be a lot easier after Christ returns, but the First resurrection is the better one. No pain no gain, Revelation 20:4-6.

Spiritual warfare against Satan and his band of demons is no fun to overcome but it is required now. It is hard to put a price on Eternal life. Well, God the Father loved us so much he bought our lives back from Satan's deceptions through Jesus the Christ, John 3:16-21; Revelation 12:9. Jesus as God is more valuable then all of us put together, John 1:1-5, Hebrews 1:5-14

Hang in there for now and do the best that you can.

God loves us all,

The Lionswhelp


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Well, not quite Countrywomen & Misty. All are still in the grave as far as Solomon knew in his day. I have five dogs and one cat now. We have had to bury others that died or were killed by accidents down through the years. I know that Disney movie said all dogs go to heaven. Well in a sense that is true because God counts every sparrow that falls dead to the ground,Matthew 10:29-31..

We humans are more valuable that birds, dogs and cats. It is our souls or spirit in us that returns to God, even that of animals, Ecclesiates 3:17-22.. God keeps the records of each and everything created. God loved us humans so much that Jesus died for us humans. This doesn't mean that he will only accept humans. God's grand purpose for us is Eternal life. In Their kingdom without pain, sin or death. I'm sure if you want old Rover back or that favorite cat or bird that gave you so much joy in life, it can be restored to you as be part of your life forever. As your friends even though they still will be spirit animals. God will not destroy the things that are good but only the evil things.

Think about it If God is going to change the nature of animals to be peaceful during the Millenium and that they will eat straw instead of each other and humans. There is just nothing good that God will withhold from us as long as it is part of His will, Isaiah 11:6-16.

Both my mother and father were cremated instead of being buried in hell or the ground. Flesh in the grave also deteriorates over time. This is no problem for God because he has your soul or spirit tape that has you recorded in the book of life, Revelation 20;12-13. If you lived and never understood who God really is, this will be the time of understanding and knowledge for most humans. Satan the devil will no longer be around to deceive you.

Though some think that the life we live today is the only time to be saved, well they are wrong. This includes a lot of Christians that believe contrary to God's written Way. that now is the only day of salvation.

They are wrong of course because they never understood God's plan of salvation which is recorded in Leviticus 23, and many other Old Testament and New Testament writtings for us. Yes, happy days are ahead for us humans. Satan knows his time is short and will try the best that he can to deceive and destroy us, but he will fail. You can wait until Christ returns, you may have not choice in the matter now but if you are seeking, asking, and knocking there is a good possiblity the door can be opened to you. Most humans just have not understood this "Way" of God, John 14:6-7.

I don't know if you are called now or not. But God does! I personally prefer to be called now since I had been seeking the truth all these years. It will be a lot easier after Christ returns, but the First resurrection is the better one. No pain no gain, Revelation 20:4-6.

Spiritual warfare against Satan and his band of demons is no fun to overcome but it is required now. It is hard to put a price on Eternal life. Well, God the Father loved us so much he bought our lives back from Satan's deceptions through Jesus the Christ, John 3:16-21; Revelation 12:9. Jesus as God is more valuable then all of us put together, John 1:1-5, Hebrews 1:5-14

Hang in there for now and do the best that you can.

God loves us all,

The Lionswhelp


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Thanks Lionswhelp, I always try to do the best I can do, and it is truly important to me to be reunited with my lost pets, and to believe all animals have place in Heaven. I personally am convinced they are already there, rather than waiting in graves, and I also believe being cremated is not a problem (and good job too as the planet would quickly run out of space if everyone opted to be buried).

Even as a Pagan by religion, I do believe in Christ, but also believe our way of looking after and loving the planet is as he intended, and we are honouring his wishes.

Thank you.


findingmyzen 8 years ago

Someone that claims themselves Pagan doesn't believe in Christ, because Pagan falls into Gods/Goddesses, bascially new age from Celtics. In the world of Pagan it is about Nature and nurturing nature and being one with the earth. There is no heaven, no hell, no one single god nor a devil.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Sorry, you are wrong, 'FindingmyZen!'

I know many Pagans who believe in Christ, if not as the Son of God, as a Great Prophet. We don't necessarily believe in Hell, but we do believe in an afterlife where a God or Great Spirit will take care of us and be grateful for our care of his creatures and his planet in life.

What you may be getting confused with is whether we take the exact word of the Bible today as accurate, mainly because many of us, (if not most), believe it to be simply a book, that is quoted constantly to act as 'evidence' of Christ / God's word. Most of us see that there is too much room for error in mistranslation and word of mouth before it was written down, for it to be a totally reliable source of information.

I can only assume from your comment you are not a Pagan yourself, otherwise you would know this. You may also be getting modern day Paganism mixed up with the older Celtic Paganism, and also assuming we worship multiple Gods and Goddesses today, (again, which most of us don't!).


josephdiego profile image

josephdiego 8 years ago from Eastern Long Island , New York

Can you all please take a moment and read the comments I posted before this one. May you all be Blessed.

Peace, Love, Health, Happiness and Lavish Abundance... JosephDiego


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear Fellow Hubbers,

There is only One True God - YAHWEH, and besides Him there is no one else.  The Lord Jesus Christ prayed: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (Jn. 17:3).  Jesus also said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me." (Jn. 14:6) There is only One Way of salvation and that is going through the Lord Jesus Christ.  "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

God is love.  "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not sent His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.  He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believee in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (Jn. 3:16-18)

God's love is not opening a broad way for every religion on earth to lead one to salvation.  The Lord Jesus Christ has this warning.  "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it." (Mt. 7:13) The "broad way of salvation" is preached by Oprah Winfrey and Barack Hussein Obama. Click on the URL:-

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/oprahobama

We are living in the End Time and the Lord Jesus Christ is returning.  God has told us in the Scriptures the Antichrist - the lawless one would be revealed.  "The coming of the lawless one is according to to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.  they they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess. 2:9-12)

Reincarnation is false concept of Hinduism, Buddhism and the New Age Movement.  This mixture of religion has been popularized by movie stars. 

The Holy Bible states very clearly: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." (Heb. 9:27-28)

The Lord Jesus Christ declared: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (Jn. 5:24)  "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life.  He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.  And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.  Do you believe this?" (Jn. 11:25-26)

I urge those who believe in reincarnation to drop this false concept and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.  The reason why some of you have come to this hub is because God loves you and wants to save you.  "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man (Jesus Christ) whom He has ordained.  He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31)

"So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31)

May God bless you

Arkwriter


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Good job Arkwriter!

Contoversy is what present day Christians are about. Since most of "Christianity" is pagan to the 'core' along with all the other pagans religions. Some who do know the truth but have become complacent in the USA and elsewhere, someone needs to wake them up.

Jesus was not kidding about having our lamps lit and having extra oil so we do not run out. Some do not have much oil at all, Matthew 25:1-13. Even the very elect can be deceived if possible, Matthew 24:24-25. This is why there will be a Laodicean Church, Revelation 3:14-22. Some have let down their guard and have even returned to wallow in the mire of religious confusion, 2 Peter 2:1-3,17-22. That's okay Christ will give them a chance to redeem themselves.

Christ's little flock is in the world to warn everyone to stay awake and come out of the main false pagan religions that mascarades as "Christian" but really have their roots in all the Babylonian pagan churches of today including New Age, Revelation 18::4, 2 Corinthians 11:4. The blind lead the blind and will fall into the ditch of religious deception, Matthew 15:12-14, Revelation 12:9.

Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophesies with contempt. Test everything. Hold unto the good. Avoid every kind of evil. May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of out Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful and He will do it, 1 Thessalonian 5:19-24.

The Lionswhelp


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

I have to ask this, and please forgive me for doing so Arkwriter, but if Reincarnation is so false, then why do so many have 'memories' of past lives?

Also, how do you explain cases where young children have described in great detail places they have never visited, and outside of their own villages, only to ultimately be taken there and their descriptions proved to be accurate?

I saw one particular case where a child claimed for many months she remembered she had been locked in a cellar below a barn in a previous life. Eventually her parents and a TV crew took her to the vicinity of where she claimed this had happened. She found a track that neither her or her Mother had ever been down before, and led the crew and her mother down it. Eventually they found a barn, and when they ventured inside they discovered a trapdoor covered in ancient straw, and below it, a cellar perfectly fitting the description she had provided of her past life.

Another case involved a young boy who was certain his parents were not his parents, and that his former Wife and children lived in a neighbouring village. He would get really angry with his current 'parents; for treating him as a child when he felt like an adult. Eventually the 'parents' took him to the neighbouring village to meet his 'family' and he easily convinced them he was the Husband/Father they had lost. The former 'Wife' was in tears, but was completely convinced he was her late Husband. He could describe how he died, and knew his children's names, and recognised their photos, even though he had never been to this village before. It was amazing to watch.

To say these beliefs and religions have been popularised by 'Movie Stars' is totally untrue, and based on supposition rather than actual knowledge. Personally, I cannot think of one movie star that I could quote as following these beliefs, although there are no doubt many, just as there are many average religious humans who also believe in this.

I am sure God does love us, but that does not mean reincarnation was not a part of his plan for us to spiritually advance, and arguing it using scripture does not really make a case, as who really knows who wrote that scripture, or altered it in the first place? It is already proven as fact that many words in the Bible have been altered, e.g. King James versions. Who knows what else has been reworded if we are honest with ourselves??


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 8 years ago

Misty,

The workings and doctrines of men have tried to reword different parts of the Bible. But all in all the Holy Scriptures are intact for what is needed now. It really takes the Holy Spirit in us to give us the discernment to understand it, 1 Corinthians 2:9-16- God reveals these things to us by the Holy Spirit.

It goes to show why there are so many different Churches with different understandings as to what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is, but all scripture is given from inspiration from God, or God breathed for our own good for teaching, correcting and training in righteousness so that we may well grounded in it, 2 Timothy 3:16.

Lioinswhelp


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 8 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

Hi Lionswhelp, this still doesn't answer the question and examples I asked about and gave though?

I firmly believe in God, truly, and feel that he also created reincarnation for a good reason.

I also still mantain that much of the Bible is reworded and mistranslated, mainly by King James, e.g. 'Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live', being originally 'Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live'.

These facts cannot be ignored, and if it is acknowledged that these parts were altered, then who is to say other parts weren't also altered to man's ends?


arkwriter profile image

arkwriter 8 years ago from Houston, Texas U.S.A. Author

Dear mistyhorizon2003,

You wrote: "I firmly believe in God, truly, and feel that he also created reincarnation for a good reason."

My response:  God has firmly established His will in the Holy Bible. "God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the worlds." (Heb. 1:1-2) 

If God had "created reincarnation" as you firmly believe then He would have stated it very clearly in His word - the Holy Bible.  Not one word in the Old Testament and not one word in the New Testament about reincarnation.  Besides, the Holy Bible states very firmly: "And it is appointed for men to die once, but after that the judgment." (Heb. 9:27).  Humans that are created by God live a life only once and die only once.  They do not die and recycle their lives as another human being or even become an animal or an insect that has no spirit or soul. 

The concept of reincarnation is completely incompatible with Christianity.  It undermines the Christian doctrine of the atonement by the Lord Jesus Christ who died in man's stead.  In reincarnation man tries to live a good life by himself so that he can become a better person in the next life. 

In Christianity man is a sinner and is lost. God loves man so that He came to this earth as the Lord Jesus Christ to save man from sin by dying on the Cross and shedding His precious blood. Salvation is by the Lord Jesus Christ and in Him alone. There is only One True God, One Lord and One Savior. Believe in Him alone and you will be saved.

You keep on repeating a single verse in scripture "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Ex. 22:18) and claim that "witch" should be translated as "prisoner".  I do not know where you get your translation

In the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m'khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others - e.g. causing their death or loss of property. Clearly "evil sorceress" or "woman who does evil magic" would be the most accurate phrases in today's English usage for this verse. Here are the different versions of the Bible.  None of them translate the word m'khashepah as "prisoner". 

Various Biblical translations render this verse as:

American Standard Version "Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live." The Answer: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.

Amplified Bible: You shall not allow a woman to live who practices sorcery.

Good News Version: Put to death any woman who practices magic.

James Moffatt Translation: You shall not allow any sorceress to live.

Jerusalem Bible: You shall not allow a sorceress to live.

King James Version: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Living Bible: A sorceress shall be put to death.

Modern Language Bible: Allow no sorceress to live.

New American Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.

New American Standard Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.

New Century Version: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.

New International Version: Do not allow a sorceress to live.

New Living Translation: A sorceress must not be allowed to live.

New Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a female sorcerer to live.

New World Translation: You must not preserve a sorceress alive. The Promise:

Contemporary English Version: Death is the punishment for witchcraft.

Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

Revised English Bible: You must not allow a witch to live.

All the above Bible versions are consistent in their translations of the Hebrew word "m'khashepah" as witch or sorceress. Your translation of "prisoner" has no merit at all.

 

Regarding your stories about people who remember things in their past life may have been possessed by demonic spirits that also know people who have lived past lifes and related them.  The devil deceives people to believe in reincarnation which is a false belief.

You wrote you cannot recall any movie star that believes in reincarnation.  You must have seen, heard or read about Shirley McClain and Glenn Ford who talked a lot about reincarnation.

Mistyhorizon2003, you just cannot mix Christianity with the occult.  It is not only dangerous but very deadly and it leads people to destruction and hell. 

May God bless you.

Arkwriter


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 8 years ago from West Virginia

Arkwriter, You are wrong. Not all miracles are in that Bible and we don't know which ones and what they were. You cannot go by just the few that are in that Bible and at that mistranslated into something the gentiles could only understand.

God blesses everyone----

I got to ask you ---When in Mathew it clearly states that Jesus was a Nazarene and all his teaching are from there--why are they not included in the ile and also thought of a heresy? Would that not say that Jesus's teachings and learning was a lie--because that is what Heresy means.

Aslo don't use verses out of context. What one sentece says may be totally differnt in the whole of the paragrah or story. The least you culd do is RESPECT the words of Jesus enough to use his whole thought and not just a small part of it.


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