Did Angel’s have sex with the daughters of Men?

Did Angel’s have sex with the daughters of Men?

In Genesis 6:1-2 it says, “Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose”.

Who where these “Sons of God”? Many have claimed them to be the sons of Cain who married the daughters of Seth, Cain and Seth were brothers. But this theory doesn’t cohere with Scripture nor does it sensibly fit with human genetics. Scripture tells us that the offspring of the “Sons of God” and daughters of men produced giants, called Nephilim. Procreating with your brother’s daughter doesn’t produce giants.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown” Gen 6:4. What does “afterward” mean in this passage? It means after the flood the “Sons of God” took wives from the daughters of men once again. These Nephilim where also of the descendants of Anak who were after the flood. Israel, prior to their conquest of the promised land sent spies over to spy out the land but became discouraged because of the Nephilim saying, “We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight and so we were in their sight” Num 13:33. Since Cain’s descendants died in the flood and only one of Seth’s descendants Noah along with his son’s made it through the flood, proves that the son’s of Cain could not have had sex with the daughters of Seth after the flood. This explanation therefore holds no theological cohesiveness nor does it explain the Nephilims existence after the flood if only Seth’s sons survived but Cain’s perished.

The “Sons of God” (bene 'elohim as it is in the Hebrew) refers to angels. Let’s look at a few references in Scripture to prove this. In Job 1:6-7 we read, “Now there was a day when the sons of God (bene 'elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it”. Satan showed up in heaven when all the angels where meeting with God. Does Satan have access to heaven, see Luke 10:18 & Rev. 12:7-17, this is why even the heavens will be burned with intense heat, 2 Peter 3:7-12. You may say, “Couldn’t this mean that men, as the sons of God, were giving account of themselves”? Not unless they went to heaven to do it. Here is another account in Job of the use of the “Sons of God”, “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— while the morning stars sang together and all the angels (bene 'elohim) shouted for joy” Job 38:4-7 NIV. God is asking Job where was he when He created the earth and when the bene 'elohim (sons of God), translated angels in this passage, sang as He laid it out. Obviously men had not yet been formed until after the creation of the earth, proving that angels are the proper translation for bene 'elohim as the “Sons of God”.

Another account to prove this interpretation of the “Sons of God” as angels can be found in the writings of Enoch. Don’t get all worked up because this book is not found in the Christian Bible. It is an apocryphal book like the book of Maccabees and Tobiah. Jews believe its authenticity and consider it valid. Jude, Jesus’ brother, quoted Enoch verbatim in his epistle, “And about this Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds, which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him” verse 14-15. See book of Enoch 2:1-2 click this link to read it for your self, http://reluctant-messenger.com/1enoch01-60.htm . If Jude did not believe its validity and authenticity he would not have quoted him directly. How did this book survive the flood? Noah would have had to bring it aboard the Ark along with any other writings otherwise it would not have survived. Noah therefore believed it to be written by His great-great grandfather Enoch. Methuselah who is Enoch’s son would have given to Noah, his great grandson, the parchment that Enoch wrote. This is very plausible because Methuselah didn’t die until the year of the flood.

In chapter seven of Enoch’s book he translates Genesis 6:1-2, 1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children. He further expounds upon this Scripture saying, 10Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.11And the women conceiving brought forth giants, (7) 12Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced. Even without this book we still can see in Job that the “Sons of God” is referring to angels. However, this book confirms and expounds on the verse in Genesis 6:1-2. This “Sons of God” interpretation changes the significance of what the Scriptures are trying to convey.

Can angels have sex? The people in Sodom had no suspicion that the angels whom they thought were men visiting Lot were not capable of having sex for they went to Lots house and demand that Lot send out his visitors so they could have sexual relations with them, Genesis 19:1-11. They didn’t get their chance because the angels blinded them but as far as the men of Sodom were concerned these visitors had all the features and appearance of being able to have sexual encounters. Now let’s take another look at Jude’s epistle. He desires to write to the brethren about their common salvation but instead he feels the necessity to give a warning. He says, “Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. And angels, who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immortality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire” Jude 5-7.

What is common among the three examples? First let’s look at the last verse above where it says, “Since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immortality and went after strange flesh”. The word “these”, is referring to the first two examples. In Israel’s case, they fell into great immorality and went after strange flesh in the wilderness. We read in Numbers 25:1 “While Israel remained at Shittim; the people began to play the harlot with daughters of Moab”. Paul gives the account in 1 Corinthians 10:8, “Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did and twenty-three thousand fell in one day”. The second example are the angels who procreated with the daughters of men, Genesis 6:1, with the summation of all having acted immorally as did Sodom and Gomorrah by going after strange flesh.

You may ask “why does it really matter”? If it is in the word of God it has significance and spiritual subtenants. What is the one warning that Paul stresses in his epistles… to flee immorality? “Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body” 1 Cor 6:18-19 NASU. Immorality translated in the verse comes from the Greek word “porneia” were we get the English word “porn”. It means to illicit sexual intercourse. “For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;” 1 Thess 4:3-5 NASU. Sanctification has to do with the Jewish marriage and comes from a Hebrew root word that also translates in the English as “betrothal”.

Notice how close our sexuality is to our spirituality for they are one in the same. Paul compares them in his epistle to the Church at Corinth. “Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? May it never be! Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a harlot is one body with her? For He says, “The two will become one flesh.” But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him” 1 Corinthians 6:15-17. This puts a substantial significance on what Paul conveys to the Church at Ephesus. “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and His Church” Ephesians 5:31-33. Paul says this verse in Genesis 2:24 pertains to God and man it can only be understood between the union of a man and woman. In other words God is declaring you as His bride. Don’t be immoral with any created thing.

But this is not my point in the article but I wanted to stir you up by way of Scripture to consider why God is jealous for you even as a husband is over his wife! If angels can have sex with humans as is evident in these few Scriptures then what is the significance of Genesis 3:14-15, “And the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the fields; on your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life; and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you no the head and you shall bruise him on the heel”. This is not an argument that Satan had sex with Eve and Cain is his offspring. Since I’ve gone here, I best explain how Cain is not Satan’s Son. Without going into another contingent and for the sake of time let this be the nail in the coffin so that this subject can be put to rest. In Genesis 4:1 it says, “Now the man (not Satan) had relations (sexual intercourse) with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a man-child with the help of the Lord”. The Scripture needs no explanation but to help those who have problems reading into what’s not there I’ll translate. The Scripture identifies the babes’ daddy as Adam, for when he had sexual relations with his wife she conceived and gave birth to Cain. Next Eve credits God for the birth of Cain, she doesn’t credit Satan.

This seed from God in Genesis 3:14-15 was to come through the woman and her offspring would defeat the works of Satan. We know this seed to be Jesus Christ born of the virgin Mary, Luke 1:26-55. “He became flesh and tabernacled among us” John 1:14. If this seed of God became literal and walked among us how much more the fulfillment of the seed of Satan! Consider how Satan has tried to thwart the seed of God. He tried to annihilate the Jews through pharaoh by declaring to the midwives to kill all the male children born to any Jewish women. Satan has worked through countless leaders in the same way, because he knows what God’s plan is. The only ones who don’t is mankind except God’s church. Satan has sent angles to taint the blood of men and teach them sorcery and incantations. He has also instrumented pagan worship. The sacrifice offered to these pagan gods such as Molech was the worshiper’s first born seed, Leviticus 20:2. The picture is clear that Satan has not been successful; however, he will plant his own seed, the anti-christ into this world in a last ditch effort to overthrow God. He want succeed. How has your life been instrumental to Satan’ plan? Will his seed be literal or will we spiritualize it. I’ll leave that up for you to decide.

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Comments 82 comments

Allan McGregor profile image

Allan McGregor 7 years ago from South Lanarkshire

Good Hub. I agree with the central premise that the Nephilim were human-angel hybrids, and that Satan's most likely motive was to subvert God's plan of Salvation of mankind through Jesus Christ by tainting the human line witht the demonic. Because then God would either have to abort his plan by disrupting the Messiah's genealogy, or he would have to offer Satan the lifeline of a demon-hybrid Messiah.

Some believe that this is what Genesis 6:9 means when it says that Noah was righteous (tsadiq) and perfect (tamiym), and that tamiym refers to his racial purity as a human being without any taint in his bloodline.

There is also the point that these demons were imprisoned by God in a place of special darkness called tartarou (Jude 1:6) for this particularly heinous crime.

Even so, Satan is persistent and appears not to have given up completely, as Goliath may have been descended from a later race of nephilim.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 7 years ago Author

Great addition to the hub. Thanks Allan and God bless.


LionessofJudah 6 years ago

Yes sir, all true. I agree; and may I say that sex and all its implications are the main target for war in Satan's kingdom? why would that be? Sex is sacred to God; it was His idea, and His prerogative to command that it would be experienced only within the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman.It is all God's for God's glory. While Satan engages in his unholy war,we will wage a Holy war against him to recover the sacredness of sex. Thus we need more hubs like this one Mickey.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

LionessofJudah,

Thanks for the comment by someone with spiritual discernment. Satan has adulterated the bride with senuality and lust. How long will we run from this truth that sexuality and spirituality are equivalent, 1 Cor.6:16-17?


EnglishM 6 years ago

The word 'sons' has been deformed through translation from the word 'seeds'. My theories conclude that the Nephilim, the men of fame, the mighty ones of old, were nothing more than Neanderthals turned bad by humans. Evidence suggests that Neanderthals and humans coexisted for over a thousand years. You might like my article, 'At Last... The Truth. I would certainly appreciate your thoughts.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM,

Ben (bane); from OT: 1129; means a son (as a builder of the family name), and is used 4,930 times in the Old Testament.

Zera` (zeh'-rah); from OT: 2232; seed; or disseminate is used 230 times in the Old Testament.

Paul makes a doctrinal argument about the word “Seed” to the church at Galatia quoting Genesis 17:19. He uses the Greek word sperma (sper'-mah); from NT: 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (including the male "sperm"); in which we get our English word “Sperm”. Paul had no problem translating that word into seed from the Old Testament. In fact he translates son in the Old Testament, Genesis 18:10 in his letter to Rome, Romans 9:9 as son, huios (hwee-os'); meaning son. Obviously Paul had no problem translating these words to mean what we know them to mean today. If we look in Gen 17:19 in the original language we see both words, seed and son used in the same verse, which further proves there meaning and translation. Your argument is very weak and appears to be bias or at least uninvestigated.

I did read through your document and have some background in genetics because of my profession. Your opinion on humans once having 48 Chromosomes instead of the 46 Chromosomes known in man today is also weak. If we had 48 Chromosomes we would be apes. Every living thing has its set number of chromosomes and genetic makeup. If 48 was the immortal number then apes shouldn’t die! This should be further proof of the difference in man to that of all other created things. I do believe that Adam was immortal and sin somehow changed him to be mortal. However we know that once a man is resurrected he does not have blood and blood is the life source of every living being and is produced in bone marrow, 1 Cor. 15:50. It doesn’t appear that man we exist in the same state he lives now, bone yes, flesh yes, but life as we know it know no, for this mortal most but on immortality and this corruptible must put on incorruption and then death will be swallowed up. 1 Cor. 15:51-54. If we want to know what we will be like, then all we must do is look at Jesus after His resurrection, 1 John 3:2


EnglishM 6 years ago

I'm talking about the scribes who translated the bible into what you're reading now. For anyone to suggest that if we had 48 chromosomes we would be apes is ridiculous. If you have a background in genetics you should know that. I don't have a document, but I do have a number of articles. Best of luck in your continued pursuit for knowledge.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM

How did we ever get the notion that those who lived in their own time did know their own language. Paul was Hebrew and translated the Hebrew into Greek and thousands of English words are derived from the Greek language yet it has been mistranslate? Even the Dead Sea Scrolls have layed this idea to rest. The scribes didn't mis-translate it, we have a problem with the word of God. It is what it is, the TRUTH! You stated in your article that you believed Adam and Eve had 48 Chromosomes, is this not the # of Chromosomes for apes? Yes. Then you suggest that man was an ape! It's that simple, 46 your human, 48 your ape.


EnglishM 6 years ago

Mickey

The catholic and protestant religions of England both changed the bible to suit themselves, from Greek to English and from Hebrew to English, especially Henry VIII (C of E). And your observation suggests that someone with Down's syndrome (47 chromosomes) is not human, or Turner's syndrome (45 chromosomes) or Klinefelter's syndrome (47 chromosomes). Humans can have up to 52 chromosomes in their genome. The 24th chromosome is a scientific fact in humans. Some fragments of it are still attached to the chromosomes we have now. It would be better is you took a look at my 4 part theory. I think you will find that it compliments the knowledge that you already have, at least, that's what most religious people tell me (Judaism, Christanity and Islam). It's a debate, not a war.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM,

This notion that the Catholic Church and protestant religions changed the Bible to suit or say what they wanted it to say is a fabrication that has stumbled many people to believe a lie. The Catholic Church nor the protestant church changed Scripture. Matter of fact the Old Testament was translated into Greek before the 1st Century around the time of Alexander the Great who by the end of his reign globalized the world and brought the universal use of the Greek language. As a result the Septuagint,the Greek translation of the Hebrew O.T., was born. A little research will prove this lie that many use to discredit the word, the only ambiguity is human error and belief in what is a lie and deception from Satan.


EnglishM 6 years ago

The Catholic church and the Protestant church have both admitted that scribes changed the scriptures whilst translating from Hebrew to Latin and Greek to latin, and then again from Latin to English. Most of the Christian world knows that. You've lost the plot, Mickey McNew. And so, for that reason, I'm out. All the best. Have a good life and Goodbye. EnglishM.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM,

You may be a geneticist but your no linguist.


EnglishM 6 years ago

...but 'your' no linguist? You may be a geneticist but you are (or you're) no linguist. And I'm a theoretical cytogeneticist for the record.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM,

I'll let you have your last word so you can keep to "you're" last promise. Thanks for the clarity for my readers so they know it's only a theory and not truth, Jesus is the only truth.


EnglishM 6 years ago

Mickey McNew,

What promise? What theory? What are you talking about?

You have readers? Good grief! You're stuck in the dusty old antiquated past. I'm of the same opinion, that Jesus is the truth. But he was also flesh, blood and bone; cells, chromosomes, genes and DNA... unless you think he was a robot? Read my work (in four parts) and then, by all means, comment on it. Or maybe one of your 'readers' could read it and then wake you up from your erudite nap? You're not writing from a hospital of some kind, are you? You're so much fun, Mickey McNew, I hope I don't get bored with this?


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EngilshM,

It’s obvious that your feelings have been hurt because I don’t agree with you. I’m not looking for knowledge or truth, I’ve already found Him. I believe God existed before ALL things and therefore He is the Creator of all things. I believe the word is infallible and truth can only be obtained in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the wisdom of God and all knowledge and truth are found in Him alone, Colossians 2:2-3. Man can search for immortality other than God but eternal life is only found in Christ Jesus, John 11:25 & 14:6. Life begins with Him and ends with Him, Rev 1: 1-17-18, 22:12-13. In your article these foundational truths are disregarded. You stated that God came after creation and you believe that the Bible is fallible therefore you have no foundation to build upon. EngilshM my faith is not based on words alone for it was His word that led me to a real encounter with Him, John 5: 39-40. Jesus said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life and few are those who find it” Matt. 7:13-14. This narrow gate is a dying breed of those who believe the Word of Life and His means to find Him thru the Holy Scriptures. My prayer for you is that you would find Him as well, so that your search for immortality can be a reality.What theory, the definition of theoretical cytogeneticist. Theorictical means theory or hypothetical.


EnglishM 6 years ago

That's what I'm talking about, Mickey. I hang on to every word Jesus said. He is my life. He tells us that we will inherit the Earth and live forever. I know, because of my integrity and my equanimity, that I have found the narrow gate. Fortunately, as a cytogeneticist, I can at least look at the biological implications of living forever after the first death. God is the master of all DNA. Everything he has created as a living soul is made of DNA, even Archangel Michael and Archangel Gabriel are made of DNA.

You haven't hurt my feelings. I know that you are so obviously on the right track with your knowledge. That's why I want you to read my observations. Then you can say things like, "Oh yes, so that's why God took one of Adam's ribs, I thought it was just so he could make Eve from it, but now I see that there are many reasons for God taking one of Adam's ribs." No matter which way you look at it, you can't escape the fact that Adam's rib was made of cells, chromosomes, genes and DNA. Science explains how we are made. God made us. My search for immortality is over because I've found it, because I know 'how' it is possible. You're the one still searching because your eyes are closed to the way God works, which is what we call science. God is a living being, and a living being has to be born within an environment. The big bang was the beginning of the environment from which life came from. The first of all life in the universe is God. Before the narrow gate it says, "Keep on asking, and it will be given to you; keep on seeking and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you." The power of God cannot be explained without flesh and blood, now better known as DNA.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Mickey, you are so right on and it's a shame to see EnglishM be so double-minded. He has deceived himself and is being used by the Deceiver to attempt to deceive the unlearned who also worship the "god of man's knowledge" ~ the same Man who, even three hundred years ago, thought the world was flat. God had to be born? Really? He is SPIRIT. The Bible says so. Where did the elements come from that caused the "big bang"? Who created them? I'm also sure that if God flooded the world again (which He promised never to do again), man would dig up ape bones and human bones and Satan would be right there to use man's reasoning to say one evolved from the other. Heck, let's dig up baby bones and say they are millions of years older than adult bones, for it took millions of years for man to evolve! God said Man named the apes. That's the truth.

Anyhow, Satan seeks to cause distraction from awesome hubs of truth like this one. You are an incredible specimine of God's design, being used for His glory, led by His Holy Spirit, which is Him (Spirit). Praise God for you! Keep on sharing the TRUTH, brother!!


EnglishM 6 years ago

Hmmm, yeah, okay... whatever.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

EnglishM,

I don’t have a problem with DNA or genetics nor do I deny angels are made with DNA. Obviously I would not have written the article that the Sons of God (angels) had offspring’s with the daughters of men. What I have a problem with is that you want to put creation before the Creator. God proclaims throughout His word that He created all things not just some things but all things. Like in Isaiah 45:12, God says, “It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts”. And again in Isaiah 45:18, “This is what the LORD says — He, who created the heavens, He is God; He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited — He says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other”. He asks this question in Isaiah 40:26, “Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing”.

Furthermore, Jesus is proclaimed to have been the one who created all things, we read in Col 1:15-18, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (by inheritance not birth). For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy”. NIV and in Heb 1:2

“But in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe”. NIV

The hosts in heaven proclaim it, Rev 4:11, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." NIV

Quantum Mechanics proves what God has proclaimed that He made everything out of nothing, Heb 11:3 “By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible”. NIV

My eyes are opened to who God is, CREATOR of all things, before time and space.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Judah's Daughter,

Thanks for the thread,your comments are valued. Keep the faith and continue to hide His word in your heart.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Mickey McNew I have three questions for you: where in the book of Genesis does it mention that "the sons of god" came down from heaven? and "if Believers are to be made equal to angels(lk. 20:35-36), will they still experience the same carnal desires which then motivated the sons of God to have sex with women(according to you) or have the possibility of giving way to them? and lastly "why do you feel so compel to quote from a book that was never part of the sacred scriptures and it is obviously myth?"

EnglishM you have great insight and knowledge and if your insight and knowledge comes from this "god of knowledge", which the LionessofJudah claims that comes from "Satan", then we are all in trouble because even Mickey uses this "god of knowledge" to get his information. I hope that you come back EnglishM. I got words for Juda's Daughter and for LionessofJudah and even Greg, but I will wait until the next time.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur, all I can say is keep seeking God, and His Holy Spirit will show you the truth.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Mickey, thanks for the powerful enlightenment idea that you've propose; for me to "keep seeking God". You obviously assume that I have not found the Ancient of days and that's totally reprehensible for you to say. Mickey you had a lot to say in the beginning of your blog, but suddenly, you've been rendered speechless. I asked you 3 simply questions. I asked you those questions because you are saying a lot of things that are not in the book of Genesis, but are in the book of Enoch(not the real Enoch of course)and I just want you to clarify what you're saying. You speak as someone who has authority over the subject at hand, but you actually don't have any do you? You're still seeking God aren't you and it's obvious to me that this Holy Spirit has not shown you the truth either. Mickey, I will add one more question: Do you know why the Ancient of days only sees "that the wickedness of man,not angels, was great on the earth" and for that reason HE said "I will blot out MAN whom I have created from the face of the land, from MAN to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." Mickey, there is not mention of angels also getting their behind wiped, is there? come on Mickey, say something.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur, by what you have written, I can see at this point you still would not understand if I wrote more. Thanks


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Mickey, by what you have written, I can see at this point you still would not be able to answer any basic questions with regards to what really did happen and what did not happen at the time of the flood. Many of the things that you wrote about, did not happen nor is it written anywhere. Moses never wrote about Angels coming down from heaven to have sex with women of the earth. What Moses did write about was this fact: men that came from this man "Seth" from Enosh and on up to the flood, had now begun to call upon the name of "Yahweh" and they had become an early example of the relationship that were to occur later on with "Yahweh" and "Israel". In the meantime another society was also emerging and they were also increasing in numbers. This other society was one that came from a man named "Cain". Mickey, I can continue to explain this to you, but I got a feeling that you are locked in to your view and are not going to at least research this subject a little bit more. There is a lot of misinformation out there and one of our job is to go and find the source of misinformation and try to have a healthy debate based on questions that should have an answer. If what you are saying is true, then there should be an answer to each of the questions that I asked you. Mickey, you should go back and read what EnglishM has to say. Hope to hear from you soon.


privateye2500 profile image

privateye2500 6 years ago from Canada, USA, London

...According to the bible - yes.

and

" How long will we run from this truth that sexuality and spirituality are equivalent, 1 Cor.6:16-17"

wow...now THAT'S heavy!


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Privateye2500, I see you've been doing some investigating yourself. Some get it, some don't! Read my web sight and see more on sexuality and spirituality.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur A. Cevallos,

Since you persist even though I know that you’re not interested in truth but only arguments, I will ask you question first and if you can answer them then I’ll answer yours. 1). When Jude quotes from the book of Enoch in his epistle, why was his letter included in the Canon since you call Enoch’s book a myth? 2). If God destroyed the sons of Cain because they corrupted the daughters of Seth, then how come after the flood the Bible says that the “Sons of God” again married the daughters of men, Gen. 6:4, though God destroyed all the sons of Cain in the flood how could they do it “afterward”! 3.) Why does Paul compare sleeping with a prostitute to the same as becoming one flesh with the Lord, 1 Cor. 6:16-17? 4). When Jude compared all those who knew God yet consequently where destroyed, how come he singled out the one common sin to their destruction to be sexual immorality to include angels, Jude 5-7?


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Hello Mickey, You asked some very well thought out questions and I like that from you. You say that you know that I'm not interested in truth but only arguments - I have yet to argue with you. All I've done was ask you questions and if asking you questions means that I'm arguing, then I guess that everyone that will ask you questions regarding what you are saying will also be arguing with you? No Mickey, this is simply a debate about what is and is not written and we have yet to start.

Now the answers to your questions cannot be succinct and a one sentence answer, although there are one or two questions that only need one sentence to explain.

Question:

1). When Jude quotes from the book of Enoch in his epistle, why was his letter included in the Canon since you call Enoch’s book a myth?

Answer:

1)Jude was one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. He is generally identified with Thaddeus, and is also variously called Jude of James, Jude Thaddaeus, Judas Thaddaeus or Lebbaeus. He is sometimes identified with Jude, "brother" of Jesus, but is clearly distinguished from Judas Iscariot, another disciple and later the betrayer of Jesus.

The Book of Enoch, According to Western scholars its older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) date from about 300 BC and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of the 1st century BC.

Jude's letter is included in the cannon because he was an eye witness to the events and was also given a responsibility to carry on with the orders of Jesus and that was to go out and preach the good news and prepare those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ. This letter was first meant to be a letter regarding the salvation that they all share, but he quickly realized that he need to start talking about certain men, whose condemnation was written about long ago had slipped in among them. These were men who were trying to mislead the newly created congregation with false stories. Jude was not the only one that wrote about these false teachers, peter and paul both wrote about them. The book of Enoch was written by different authors - none being the actual Enoch - and in different periods of time(300 bc - 1st ce) this book is not part of the Jewish or Christian scriptures. Wow that one question took a while. I will continue answering the other questions on another page. Let me know if anything that I have said so far is incorrect. thanks, later Mickey.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur A. Cevallos,

Here is the problem with your answer. Jude believes that Enoch wrote what he quoted in his epistle. He says “Enoch prophesied about these men” then he quotes from the book of Enoch. You say that it was not written by Enoch yet Jude who lived 2000 years before you said that Enoch prophesied and then quotes from the letter we have of Enoch. So if Jude is quoting from a pseudo-letter from Enoch his letter should have never made it into Canon as did many other letters that didn’t pass as authentic because of mysticism. However his epistle does make it and for good reason, Jude is reliable and authentic. There are many Jewish apocryphal writings that are reliable and Enoch is one. I’m not trying to make Scripture say what it doesn’t just helping others to see what it does say. Just like the Trinity its there but the word Trinity can’t be found in the Bible but I can prove it all day long. God wrote His word in Triangular numbers which many can’t even understand unless you’re a mathematician proving mathematically that He reveals Himself as the Trinity.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Let's not forget the original question "1). When Jude quotes from the book of Enoch in his epistle, why was his letter included in the Canon since you call Enoch’s book a myth? " Was my answer on why Jude's book is included in the bible correct? yes I thought so. Now you are saying that if the book of Jude is accepted as scripture, why not Enoch's? You are saying that it's enough that Jude quotes from this non-scriptural book and therefore that makes the book of Enoch legitimate and scriptural. Mickey, are you aware that the Apostle Paul and Titus quoted many pagan writers? here is a few examples: Acts 17:28, where Aratus, Phaenomena 5, is paraphrased; Acts 26:14. The phrase "it hurts you to kick against the goad" is a Greek proverb (see Euripides, Bacchae, 794-795). 1 Corinthians 15:33, where Paul quotes Menander, Thais, Frg.218. Titus 1:12, where Epimenides, De oraculis/peri Chresmon is quoted. At least four times, an Apostle of Christ included quotes from pagan writers in the New Testament. Paul seemed to have no theological problem with quoting pagans, and the Holy Spirit must have concurred. Mickey, sometimes a pagan will say or write something that is useful, if not true, and can be very useful in debunking certain theories such as the one that Jude and Peter both faced accordingly in the letter of Jude and the 2nd letter of Peter. Mickey don't forget that the book of Enoch consists five quite distinct major sections: The Book of the Watchers - This section is said to have been composed in the fourth or third century BC according to Western scholars , The Book of Parables of Enoch - presumed by western scholars to be written during 1st century BC or very beginning of 1st century CE, The Astronomical Book - written in the fourth/third century BC according to theory of western scholars., The Book of Dream Visions - is dated by most to Maccabean times (about 163-142 BC) , The Epistle of Enoch - some scholars propose a date somewhere between the 170 BC and the 1st century BC.

As you can see, the book of Enoch was largely written through centuries and now we have it as one. Was Enoch coming back each century to write a portion of the book? based on what you are saying, yes, Enoch kept coming back each century to write a portion of the book. Do you have a real understanding of why Jude wrote his letter to those who have been called, who are loved by God the father and kept by Jesus Christ? Why Jude and other bibilical authors use quotations from, and allusions to, non-canonical literature as Paul, Titus, Jude and Peter do?

There is just so much information that I can give you, but I'm afraid my time is up for today. I am expecting that you answer one of the questions that I posed to you. I've answered one of your questions and it's only fair that you answer one of mine. Either way, I will continue answering the rest of the questions that you originally posted. Enjoy the day Mickey.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Hello Mickey. Let’s review your second question

2). If God destroyed the sons of Cain because they corrupted the daughters of Seth, then how come after the flood the Bible says that the “Sons of God” again married the daughters of men, Gen. 6:4, though God destroyed all the sons of Cain in the flood how could they do it “afterward”!

God destroyed everyone, Cain’s and Seth’s Descendants, not just the sons of Cain (Gen 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.".) Gen 6:3 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."

Mickey, keep in mind that in Gen 6:3 it is written that “the Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become” and because of that wickedness God will now wipe mankind, whom he created, from the face of the earth. No mention of wicked angels here at all. There is a really good reason why God is only wiping mankind from the face of the earth, man is the only reason for the destruction that God brought on them. Not every man was wiped out, Noah and his sons and daughter in laws were kept in the world. There is really a great reason why Noah was kept and you will find that reason in Gen 5:28-29

OK, you continued to ask “then how come after the flood the Bible says that the “Sons of God” again married the daughters of men, Gen 6:4?”.

Let’s read what exactly Gen 6:4 says

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.”

The scripture is telling us that the Nephilim were on the earth in those days(the days that the Sons of God were marrying the daughters of Men and the Nephilim were also there after those days (the days when the Sons of God were marrying the daughters of Men). It does not say that the Sons of God again married the daughters of men after the flood – the flood had not taking place yet at this particular verse, that comes later.

What the scripture is saying is this “the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and afterwards, not that they Sons of God and the daughters of Men were marrying after the flood. FYI: this verse does not say that the Nephilim were the product of the Sons of God marrying the daughters of Men, just in case you think that the Nephilim were the children of this union. Keep in mind that the Nephilim were already on the Earth when the Sons of God were marrying the daughters of Men and the Nephilim were there also afterward.

So, to answer your question “then how come after the flood the Bible says that the “Sons of God” again married the daughters of men, Gen 6:4? The Bible does not say anything about these two groups marrying after the flood. There is no mention of the word Flood in Gen 6:4

Mickey here is one last piece of news for you:

Gen 6:12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them”. The earth is filled with violence because of them, them who? The People, no mention of Angels filling the Earth with violence.

I got 2 more questions to answer. Hope to hear from you soon Mickey McNew.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur,

The “Sons of God” is used only 5 times in the Old Testament and its reference refers to “Angels” never to men. Job uses it 3 times and God asked Job in chapter 38:4-7 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together

And all the sons of God shouted for joy? NASU. In the NIV the sons of God translates ANGELS.

Nephilim is used 3 times. Once in Genesis 6:4 and twice in Numbers 13:33. Since God destroyed all mankind in the flood Genesis makes it plain and simple that afterward, this race of the “Sons of God” angels/man showed up again as seen in Numbers 13:33. There is no way they could have existed after the flood since God destroyed all expect Noah and his sons. There are many examples in the Bible of the Israelites utterly destroying races on the earth.

“When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them — men, women and children. We left no survivors.” Deut 2:32-34 NIV

They wiped out whole races never to be seen again and yet you dance around the fact that the Nephilim somehow survived the flood. You also deny the fact that the “Sons of God” or only referred to as angels in the Old Testament. You need to get a good Bible software program so you can study the original language and see how it is used in the text. Because obviously you don’t understand the context of the “sons of God” and how it is used in the O.T. or how often it is used. It is quite simple.

Here is what God said to Satan, Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed ; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." Gen. 3:15 NASU

That seed literally became man, that is, Jesus. So I suppose you will say Satan’s seed will not be literal even though it is the same word in the Hebrew. This is too hard for most to swallow especially for many who are Christians and don’t believe in demon possession in our time and day.

Daniel prophecies about the 10 horn kingdom i.e. 10 toes and says, “And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.” Dan 2:43 NASU. This 10 horn kingdom will be of Satan.

Jude makes it clear that Enoch “the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men” He specifically says it was the Enoch from the 7th of Adam. Yet you call Jude a liar and say that its earliest Known writing comes from the 3rd BC and therefore not the real Enoch but only used to make a point. Shame on you for calling yourself a Christian and preaching that Jude is quoting from a pagan who was making himself out to be Enoch. Does God need to lie through His apostle to convert people, because that is what you are saying about Jude’s epistle.

Arthur you are still on spiritual milk. Seek first the baptism of the Holy Spirit and receive His spiritual gifts and He will throw you into the spirit world and show you things hidden since the beginning of the world. Isaiah 40:21. Then we can chew on the deeper things of God. I know you don’t understand right now and that’s okay. I once had a problem with people who taught the Holy Spirit baptism until it happen to me. I’m glad these people were patient with me because they led me to the truth. You can’t convince me otherwise of what God has physically showed me. I don’t expect you to understand but when He does show you we will be on the same page as many others I know are.


Marliza Gunter profile image

Marliza Gunter 6 years ago from South Africa

yes...fallen angels still have intercourse with woman today...they also have children..for themselves...this is where the Cross of Christ and spiritual warfare gets tricky...and yes...these "children" still petition God in heaven under our Law of Grace and our Law of Mercy and God's Law of Goodness towards the just and the unjust...


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Hello Marliza Gunter, it is a pleasure to meet you. I'm very happy that you decided to join this conversation. Marliza, let's say that this myth about fallen angels was true, do you, Marliza Gunter, have irrefutable proof, based on fact, that this activity is still going on. Where is your evidence?

Mickey, I'm happy to see that you have more to say. Unfortunately for me you still have not answered any of the questions that I've asked you. I enjoy reading you refute my answers to the questions you asked, can you extend me the same courtesy.

I'm thinking that maybe those questions were to hard for you to answer. Maybe the new girl can answer the questions that you have not been able to comment on.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Mickey, since you are not able to answer the 3 tough questions that I asked you at the beginning of our conversation: (1)where in the book of Genesis does it mention that "the sons of god" came down from heaven? and (2)"if Believers are to be made equal to angels(lk. 20:35-36), will they still experience the same carnal desires which then motivated the sons of God to have sex with women(according to you) or have the possibility of giving way to them? and lastly (3) "why do you feel so compel to quote from a book that was never part of the sacred scriptures and it is obviously myth?"

I will ask you three new questions and perhaps these will be easy enough for you to answer.

First, does your church,congregation,place of worship that you go to read from the book of Enoch each time that you meet in other words, is Enoch read alongside the Bible?

Second, have all the scholars and archeologist,from our past and present, been wrong about dating the different portions of the book of Enoch. Has there always been a book of Enoch that always had the five portions that it now contains?

Third, how come Moses never mentioned that this book existed?

Perhaps you can indulge me an answer these three easy questions that are not as tough as the other 3 questions that you never did answer.

I have a lot more to say about the most recent comment that you posted, but I feel that is necessary to review the past questions that I've asked you and find out why you don't want to answer them.

Marliza I'm looking forward to hearing from you and if you are going to use the following reference: Revelation 12:7-9 to explain your findings, don't. Mickey, answer my questions. If you don't answer my questions, then you are the one that is "dancing around" the issue.


Arthur A. Cevallos 6 years ago

Hello Mickey and all your followers. It's been about 4 weeks since anyone heard from you, where have you been hiding?

Are there other believers like Mickey out there? who can answer the questions that I've posed to Mickey? I'm sure there is at least one other person out there that believes the crap that Mickey is spewing?


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Arthur,

I’ve already answered your questions, yet you still ignore them, you have ears but can’t hear. I told you from the beginning that you only wanted to argue and you have proved to my readers this truth. You will not be given anymore posting space from this thread to only take up space, unless you had something relevant to say it would be different. You are both a Pharisee and a Sadducee i.e. a legalist with lack of spiritual insight. I believe you sincerely think you are doing a great service for God but even Saul/Paul believed he was too, until his Damascus road encounter revealed he was kicking against the goad. Here are the facts:

Fact 1). The phrase “Sons of God” is used in the O.T. sparingly and always refers to angels not men. This means the “angels in Genesis 6 slept with the daughters of men.

Fact 2). The Nephilim in Genesis 6 are mentioned again in Numbers as inhabitants of Canaan during Joshua’s leadership and conquest of Canaan. Since the flood saved only Noah a descendant of Seth would mean the Nephilim would have died in the flood. The only way they are found in Canaan once again after the flood is because they the “Sons of God” slept with the daughters of men after the flood.

Fact 3). Since Jude has taken the liberty to quote from Enoch to prove his point that the ungodly will be punished, in which any O.T. book will reveal this truth, I too have taken the liberty to quote from Enoch to reveal that angels were the “Sons of God” in Genesis 6 that slept with the daughters of men. Enoch in no way is my smoking gun, the Scripture prove it themselves. Enoch only provides that Judeans in the 1st Century understood that they were angels. I only proved the mind set and belief of the 1st Century Jew.

Fact 4). In archeology excavations particularly the Dead Sea Scrolls, the book of Enoch was the prominent book recovered beside one other. There have been to date 20 books of Enoch recovered in caves around the Dead Sea Scroll. For a book that is believed to be false yet found in abundance to that of O.T. Scripture’s that were recovered, speaks of one truth, the Jews thought well of the book and it’s validity to preserve it in abundance. No wander Jude quotes from it!

Fact 5). Your writings speak of one truth; you have yet to encounter any spiritual beings which reflect in your belief. Otherwise you would have spiritual discernment and insight to Scripture.


PlanosLie profile image

PlanosLie 6 years ago from Los Angeles

"Since Cain’s descendants died in the flood and only one of Seth’s descendants Noah along with his son’s made it through the flood, proves that the son’s of Cain could not have had sex with the daughters of Seth after the flood. This explanation therefore holds no theological cohesiveness nor does it explain the Nephilims existence after the flood if only Seth’s sons survived but Cain’s perished."

>>>

Excellent point here! I just might have to add this great reasoning into my hub on this subject. Blessings...


PlanosLie profile image

PlanosLie 6 years ago from Los Angeles

"The Catholic church and the Protestant church have both admitted that scribes changed the scriptures whilst translating from Hebrew to Latin and Greek to latin, and then again from Latin to English."

>>>

That's a nice unverified statement. Your source?


sarmack profile image

sarmack 6 years ago from Washington

I just noticed this hub. Very good subject.

We believe what we believe based very much on what we have experienced.

The question then is, do Angels continue to have sex with the daughters of men? I believe they do. The source of the angels would be the next thing to question. Are they fallen angels who would do such a thing?


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

I can't believe we are still having this discussion. How be it we get male angels when jesus states there are no male and female? How be it we understand so little of being a spritual being that we fail to realise, sex is of the flesh and it is a fleshly desire that only humans have because, oh oh, they are made of flesh. In order for angels to be attracted to females on earth don't u suppose they are going to have to have a blood system and a heart that pumps blood, but they do not, spiritual bodies as jesus said are different, then the blood has to stiffen the male penis, of which there is no unit on an angel.

Really sometimes christians can be so lazy in their beliefs

Genesis states that there were giants in the land IN THOSE DAY and after... Angel human copulation was not needed to create giants, giants were already in the land.. its just that simple.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Nah Angels cant have sex, they are not biological beings, nor can they reproduce time tells us that otherwise there would be a multiplying effect going on which is not happening.

100% of this whole shebang is a rumor never did happen, only twisted tales from False sources blown out of proportion.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Brotheryochan,

I guess we are so spiritual that we overlook that Paul compares sexual immorality with a prostitute, an obvious act of the flesh, to that of becoming one flesh with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:15-16. Lazy is far from what I am. It is a lack of Spiritual experience that causes error.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Hoowantstono,

I know 100% that they did. Maybe God will grant you this knowledge if you ask Him.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

God already gave me the knowledge

Angels do not have sexual organs and you cant prove they have

Angel/Human that is hence "HOAX"

Only a fool would believe contrary, and many do.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Hoowantstono,

Like I said "if He did" then we would be in agreement. I didn't learn this by reading "The Book" though I can prove it theologically. I was shown physically by the Holy Spirit. But just because God has shown me this doesn't mean I am any more spiritual than another. I only pray that as God granted Elisha's prayer to open his servants eyes and shown him all the angelic host surrounding Israel 2 King 6:16-18, He would do the same for you. Sorry a can't say it is not true or I would be calling God a liar for what He has shown me. I must obey God and proclaim this truth.


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

I don't understand what paul says about a prostitute having to do with this topic. I thought we were discussing angels having sex with humans.. i decline to debate with you.

good luck


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Brotheryochanan,

It's because you don't understand the correlation and association of sexuality to our spirituality.This has been man's number one weakness and Satan's number one target against man! Hence God is literally our Husband. Take a look at His jealous rhetoric in Ezekiel.


ibwe 6 years ago

I am worried by a Christian referring people to His Visions because Visions come from Spirits..God in Christ Jesus only give Visions that authenticates His Word.Every Vision,miracle or Teaching has to be Tested by the Word otherwise uuuh False Prophets see more Visions also ..plenty of them..Jesus the Creator of angels ....says Angels dont and cant have Sex..They are not Males or Females..though called Sons...He never said they used to have sex and now they have stopped..No He said Angels dont do Sex.. Every christian has to believe Jesus.All visions have to agree with Jesus.. I wish someone can show me where Evil Angels ever talked and dwelt with Humans in the Bible like what Holy Angels do.When Holy Angels eat and sleep and rise as in the Bible its only an enablement that Only the Creator in Jesus gives them at that particular time for a particular reason that concerns Human Destiny..Angels dont become Humans at Will..Never by Choice..Never..Its the Creator who changes them only for Human Salvation....Angels dont have that Self Choosing Ability to take another Form..Never..No Human being has ever met one Evil Angel physically in the Bible....Why..The Devil and all His Hosts are Spirits unable to transform into Human form..Check well the Eden Genesis Temptation Account...The devil had to use a Medium called the Serpent..Satan and His Angels cant eat and walk and talk to people directly as Gods Angels do without the Use of earthly Vessels...The demons that people meet today so called Spiritual husbands,Avenging Spirits,Satanists and all those stuff are just a clearmanifestation and indication of how far the world of Magic and superstition has gone..Its entire total 100% Magic,juju,incarnations,embodiments of devils from Human beings under the total influence of Satanic powers operating in Heavenly places..


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Ibwe,

Paul met an evil angel. Let me quote what he said,"2 Cor 12:7 "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me

NIV. This messenger was a demon from Satan that tormented Paul. This was not from God but was allowed by God. Just as Jesus gave Satan permission to sift Peter as wheat. Luke 22:31. Paul also warned us that Satan could even masquarade as an angel of light. This word masquarade is "metascheematizetai" that means to transform. He transforms himself in to whatever he likes. Satan is also called a serpent and he with his angels dwell on this earth. "Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down — that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him" NIV. If you read my article you would know that angels did come to earth and have relations biblically, we deny it because of our sexual imoralities and the possibilties that we may have given Satan what is rightfully Gods!


ibwe 6 years ago

Brother..The thorn in Pauls flesh.. a messenger of the Devil.. was not a walking and talking companion that could be seen and greeted physically as can have sex as could been the same to Angels that can have sex with people..Did any Christian at Corinth ever saw that Messenger of the Devil?Did any woman had sex with this messenger at Corinth one day?Did Paul ever intoduced this Physical or self transformed Evil Angel to the Corintian Church?It was Spiritual..Faith based..It was only Paul who knew of this Messenger of the Devil inside His flesh not Outside..but Inside ..Thorn Inside..Devil Inside..None physical.If it was physical he could have removed it by Himself..Paul was Spiritual...If the Messenger was physical like you say was the case in Noahs days then Christians at Corinth should have even asked Paul saying brother Paul who is this Fellow always disturbing You..Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against Powers,principalities in Heavenly places..The devil teaches False Faiths in the Name of God to confuse Salvation that's why Paul said..Test all Spirits..

The Great dragon yu talk of is really the Spiritual form seen in a Vision by John and have been active since Creation till endday..Brother check that its called together with false Prophets,False Teachers performing Miracles and Wonders etc..Its a Spiritual Warfare that Christians fight that's why We have the Holy Spirit..Not human interpretations..No Academics here..No one have ever greeted this Dragon and no one including yourself can hold this serpent physically.No woman can have sex with Him today..But He is called a Harlot,Babylon..mother of Harlotry..Where are the Nephilisms then??It is only a Physical thing that can have sex brother..flesh can have sex..Spirits cause Spiritual adultery called Idolatry..and this can give birth to hybridized false and Diluted satanic Faiths contrary to Gods plan.

Brother.. Jesus the Creator of Angels talks of the days of Noah where Humans ate and drank,married and gave unto marriages..He said the end days shall be the same..People eating and drinking..marrying and giving unto marriages..He never brings in Angels here..Why??He never said in the Days of Noah Angels married and gave unto marriages..nor Angels transformed themselves and ate and drank..No..The days of Noah according to Jesus were days in which Humans ate ,drank and had sexual immorality with Human Violence being the Order of the day..Even after Noah the race of the Nephilisms is known as a Race of Violance and Warfare..The Bible talks of Anakites..check them down Numbers and get a relationship of the same race unto Goliath the Philistine..Yu are worried on How they passed the Floods..that's simple..Does the Bible give yu who the Wives of Noahs sons were.Were they not Nephilimic?People who were in the ark were saved because of being with Noah not of being Holy..They were just like hippos and baboons on board..Do yu know why just after the flood Ham laughed at the nakedness of His father..

What if the genes of Nephilism was carried by one of Noahs daughters in Law.?/


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Ibwe,

So your saying Paul had a demon inside him. And based on this interpretation of yours you believe what Paul writes, though he was possessed by a demon! That’s a very confusing interpretation for your readers.

Paul was not possessed with a demon; the thorn in his flesh was the torment of the messenger of Satan who Paul had no control over. As James clearing makes known angels are stronger than men 2 Peter 2:12. The word messenger in the Greek is “aggelos” translated angel. The angel was one of Satan’s followers who left heaven, a fallen angel. Paul even says to the brethren that we should not forget to entertain strangers that even some who have done so have entertained angels without even knowing it Hebrews 13:1. How could they entertain angels they thought were strangers i.e. people if angels can’t take a physical form? As I stated earlier that Paul said Satan was able to transform into an angel of light.

I can tell that you have only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ but you have yet to have been baptized by the Holy Spirit Acts 8:14-17, because when you do He will open up your spiritual eyes that only He can do, I know because when it happen to me God opened the spiritual world to me. You are like a blind man trying to convince a man who sees that the grass is not green! As far as your understanding by your own intelligence I can understand your confusion.

Jude 6-7 says,

“And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” In the similar way, is speaking of both the angels who left heaven and Sodom along with Gomorrah committed sexual immorality!

You keep mentioning false prophet, I suggest you pray lest you be found as such.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

This absurd, sir. Your biblical exegesis is wrong. Read the hub "The Case against Angelic Offspring" for proper bible interpretation.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

ShadowKing?

When you decide to learn from the Holy Spirit and not from men, email back.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

Ha, ha. Denial is a form of defense designed to keep one secure in his/her illusion. And that line you used is cliched, a prime indicator of someone who knows they are wrong.

I'm formally college-educated in biblical theology with special emphasis on scriptural interpretation. What about you? Yes, I've learned my lessons from the Holy Spirit. I'm learned in 4 languages one being Hebrew.

It is obvious you're not. Your "bene 'elohim" for the Genesis 6:2 & 4 appears ONLY in 2 "late" Hebrew manuscripts, for it doesn't bear the definite article "ha-" as earliest Hebraic manuscripts does. Learn Middle Hebrew and you'll know that all "bene 'elohim(s)" refer to God, angels, and all other heavenly host. And even sometime refer to idols as a collective group. But the ones bearing the definite article "ha-/the" as in "bene ha-elohim" only refer to "sons of THE godly men".

Next time before trying to write a scholarly biblical exegesis, look beyond the use of Strong's Concordance and other flawed content of hubbers.

Peace.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

ShadowKing,

Like I said you maybe learned of men but you lack the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Jesus dealt with the learned men of His day the Pharisee who studied God's law yet knew nothing of how God was are even how He worked. I bet you have a doctrinal thesis entitled "Why not to believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how His gifts were for 1st Century believers and not for us today." It was 7 years later before I received the gift of the Holy Spirit after becoming a Christian and now I know why I was powerless until I received Him. It's almost hilarious yet sad, to listen to counsel from others who have not experienced the Holy Spirit because once you have been baptized you are taken to the next spiritual level. I know instantly those who have and haven't, by there speech and understanding of the spiritual world.

Like the verse where Peter argues the facted that the 120 with Him on Pentecost are not drunk. There are thousands of learned men who try to theologicaly expain this verse. But until I was baptized with His Spirit and felt intoxicated and wobbly I couldn't debate either way. This experience by the Holy Spirit shed light on the true meaning of the verse and what had happened. It was by experience with the Holy Spirit that has given the exact meaning and literal interpretation of this verse. People do fill and act drunk by the Holy Spirit. You or no one else can say it is an illusion, you can only be the one with the dillusion!

1 Cor 2:14 says,

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.NIV

This is were you are. For me to deny what God has shown me by experience over man's learning is to call God a liar. You be the Judge should I follow God are you!


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

According to your " Learned" Hebrew you are calling "God" an Angel. You said "bene elohim" are Angels so therefore the "Son of God" Jesus Christ is an Angel. A bit lopsided wouldn't you say. The Holy Spirit showed me this gross error in your foundation.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

Hoowantstono,

Gee, your grasping for straws. "Bene elohim" is used only seven times and never is it referred to as Jesus. It is translated, sons not son. Look at Job 38:7 in the Hebrew and Psalms 8:5. I'm sorry the Holy Spirit didn't show you that. First expain who the Holy Spirit is and have you ever physically encounter Him. This may help you clear up your confusion.


6 years ago

wow, since not one of you can agree on anything, how are we supposed to believe ANY of this? The fact that you try to encompass the entire knowledge of god on an internet board shows your pride, vanity, and lack of understanding. How is it you've all been touched by the holy spirit, but this spirit told you all different things? SO which is it, who here speaks Truth? Not one. I'm also sure that the power that animates the universe and governs time and existence itself cannot be encompassed in a rather short book. Expand your horizons! Look outside of your little box, then you will find it.


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 6 years ago Author

K

Are you one of Job's friends from old?


Peter 6 years ago

Angels of the lord are not driven by sex, only dark angels are, if however they have be with mortals then it would have been to purify curtan bloud lines and all offspring in that line as a gift, not through sexual desire, can you see any of God's right hand being driven by lust, that's part of the reason him and the devil fell out.


VulvaLover_2011 5 years ago

Let's see,we've had the following people proclaim that GOD had given them a vision and a total understanding of what the truth is: Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, David Koresh, Muhammad ibn 'Abdull?h, Jim Jones...and now we have been blessed with Mickey McNew.

We are humble to be a your present. Tell us great one, how does God look. Give us a description of his magnificence.

By the way, you said that this satan creature has been thrown down to earth. Do you know where he and his band of demons reside? I sure would like to pay them a visit and kick their behinds back to heaven.

Your must humble servant,

VulvaLover


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 5 years ago Author

Jesus said, "Beware when all men speak well of you". Thank you Jesus, my Lover, for warning me and Your servants that not all will receive the truth.


MH 5 years ago

Hi Mickey:

Thanks for the HUB. I thought it was well written, studied and spiritully insightful and you did a nice job fielding the questions as best anyone could. I am like you in regards to "Evolving Revelation From God." I have read much and spent hours and days looking at this view of the Nephilim and how they fit into scripture and phophecy. I believe this subject is an unfolding revelation that many good people who are studied in the basics of scriptures are missing. As I have read through the strings of comments, I am impressed with the basic knowledge and understanding of those who commented. It's unfortunate that many are unwilling to take what the scriptures say and listen for a possible misunderstanding of their position. There are many more scriptures and prophecies that God has saved for deeper revelation and will reveal in his time. This is not the first or the last. It is an interesting subject and one that deserves study, prayer & discernment. Unfortuantely, some people do just what I used to do and read scripture a couple of times, put it in a nice box with a pretty wrapper and a bow and slide it under the bed. I believe subjects such as these are more useful in closed sessions with others who are open more to learning and trusting the Holy Spirit for confirming in the heart, than to throw out there for the backyard scholars to strut what they know and argue about. However, this was a very good debate from both sides. I for one, beleive this subject is very important to the day we are living in and has significant prophectic implications that will grow as time moves on. I still have one small hang up that gives me a little discomfort, even though I have both sides of the scripture regarding an answer. The scripture is Matthew 22:30. I would like to see your take on this. Also, I'm not sure if you are familiar with Chuck Missler, but he had a 4 day conference regarding this and much more related to the topic. Chuck, in case you are not familiar, is a scientist and has worked as the director for the US defense department. He has also held several positions as CEO of major missle defense companies who deal with our defense dept. The point is, he's no dummie and has much study in the area that you and I are interested in. You can watch the entire conference at the following address. It adds much info to your position and validates for me the thought and importance. Let me have your take on Matthew 22:30 if you get a chance. http://www.alienencounters.com/ (I'm sure you will get comments about the web address, but that's okay.

God Bless

MH


Kevin Quinn 4 years ago

They found the Ark of the Covenant where Moses placed the 10 Commandments, in a cave under Golgotha.

http://arkofthecovenant2.blogspot.com/


Susan 4 years ago

I have a different thinking. What if the humans were apes? The humans as apes is not so far off. What if the hairless beings on our chain was the divine beings? Look at Adam and Eves two sons. One was very hairy. Where did that come from?


kaddy 4 years ago

Before anybody takes the Bible seriously... I would suggest you study into summerian texts which came about thousands of years before the bible did.... and yet many stories in the bible are rewritten shorter diluted versions from which the summerian texts depict.... if you really want the Truth... the answers are in much older texts written on stone tablets by the 1st intelligent civilisation that existed who tell us who we are... how we got here.. who created us... etc. Study into that... forget the religious dogma


Bannerman 4 years ago

i believe God created everything on the earth. He man and woman,but i dont understand is that, is it God who created woman possing male genital organ. i want to know if God created them for a different reasons


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 4 years ago Author

God is the Creator of all things, He revealed Himself to the Hebrew Abraham and gave his descendants the oracles and commandments. All other claims are false and are a diversion of the Truth. To admitt the Bible is Gods word is to confess we have rejected His word and must repent! How long will we refuse ourselves from the freedom from slavery of this world and it corruption?


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 4 years ago Author

God is the Creator and orginator of all things. He revealed Himself to Ahraham the Hebrew and made a covenant with him and his descendants. They recorded the oracles and commandments given by God Himself called the Bible. All other claims are false and lead the people astray. To reject the Bible is to deny God's truth which reveals the way to Him.


SarahandSophia profile image

SarahandSophia 4 years ago

If angels are asexual (as I have read in many accounts) how could they have sex? This is the part I find most confusing. And.. what if the 'sons of God' were not angels but something else that came down from the sky? Great hub with great content to get us thinking!


Jako Clown 4 years ago

maybe we arent thinking correctly, adam and eve are made from dust, we can now as modern humans discern that the dust could very well be ancient humans way of describing dna...maybe the sons of god didn't have sex with them BUT perhaps genetically altered their fetus or pregnany. Test tube babies? We should be thinking and comparing modern day knowledge with biblical accounts, i mean lets face it, all accounts of heavenly visitation match descriptions of ufo sightings. Im not saying god is an alien its the other way around, hollywood is to blame for our confusion. My source and credentials? Ive seen a UFO aka heavenly host very close, very real, very life changing. My wife also shared in this exotic and 1 in a billion encounter.


Debauchee69 4 years ago

I don't like this article at all

1. I don't like the idea of the Angels of the lord coming down here sniffing around our womenfolk!!! You don't see me walking around heaven looking for some strange---it should the same for Angels. Sounds more like HELLS ANGELS that ANGEL-ANGELS, if you ask me!!! First we get Secret Service banging whores in their hotel rooms and now this!!!

2. I haven't met a Jew yet that hasn't told the truth and I haven't met a Bible-Thumper yet who doesn't make stuff up as they go along!!!

3. When I was seven, at BIBLE SCHOOL, my paster told me my Jewish friend Schlomo Rabinowitz was going to burn in Hell forever because he hadn't taken Jesus as his personal saviour. I accepted what the Paster told me as truth and started to cry [What I should have done was get my Niggah Schlomo all the ice water he wanted it---cause he was going to need it LATER]. I then saw the Paster and a bunch of other men point at me and go into a huddle. They then came back and the paster told me not to worry 'BECAUSE GOD WAS GOING TO GIVE THE JEWS ANOTHER CHANCE'? I remember I became indignant---I said 'SHOW ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN where they get another chance?!! The Paster said 'Ok, so maybe it isn't ACTUALLY WRITTEN that god is going to give the Jews another chance but I BELIEVE he will do it, hence it is true. HORSESHIT!!! You don't get to write the bible as you go along!!!

4. Personally, I don't believe A WORD of the Bible---its all make believe.

5. QUESTION: If god made man from sand/dirt---why isn't our DNA 100% SILICON (dirt particulates) and not 87% rat and 97% ape/monkey?!!!

6. QUESTION: Everyone remembers Chuck Heston playing Moses in 10 Commandments and Yule Brenner playing Pharoe. JEWS, Christians and Moslems all believe GOD did a plague on Pharoe and then drowned his ass when he tried to bring the JEWS back into Slavery. What was the Name of PHAROE? The Egyptians were around for more than 10,000 years yet not one mention of evidence. JEW-King Solomon (of Solomon's mines) lived 900BC in Israel and there is evidence by both Assyrians and Egyptians of his existance---yet not one word about the drowned Pharoe? Its all make believe!!!


Mickey McNew profile image

Mickey McNew 4 years ago Author

No where in Scriptures does it say angels are asexual but as a point out the Scriptures do affirm their sexuality.


Nikko 3 years ago

Back in the preflood days,those angles that started lusting for women,left there positions in heaven and came to earth to have sex with human woman and made kids with them.Back then they could put own,make fleshly bodies to cohabit with the women,but they cant make flesh bodies no more as GOD punished them by restricted them from the ability to make flesh bodies and punished them from any spiritual enlightment and knownledge from him,but only darkness,knowing only that GOD is going to destroy them.GOD disowned them.They are here on this earth now, as is Satan,misleading the world.


Nikko 3 years ago

But GODs faithful angels can still make and put on fleshly bodies as we see 2 did when they visited Abraham.Even Jesus did too after he was resurrected,in different human bodies too,as he ate fish with them and bread.Saten and the other unfaithful angels can not make fleash bodies no more.


barney 2 years ago

Here is a link to my completed argument regarding, “Are The Sons of God Created Angels & Does Satan Still Have Limited Access To Heaven.”

http://www.shalach.org/Angels/Sons%20of%20God.html

Respectfully,

barney


H Pender 2 years ago

I used to not believe in angels & demons until I was baptized by the Holy Spirit.... and I saw many things happening in the Spirit Realm. Yes, you are right... our carnal minds cannot receive the things of the Spirit and call it foolish, but when GOD opens your eyes, you realize how foolish you have been to think that the world level of wisdom by men is wisdom. They are way of the mark! They deny the Creator at every level and the reality of the spiritual realm. The KING of Angels is the same as The Angel of the LORD... according to the Hebrew for Christians website it is GOD's Representation. Just like we have an angel that always beholding the face of GOD, GOD's Angel is one with the Person of GOD... Here is the page: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parasha... I just bought your book because GOD had me do a search about some of my most recent experiences "Jewish Wedding/Bride of Christ" and from what I have read so far, you have confirmed what's been going on in my reality with GOD. The Great I AM is JESUS (YAHWEH). Blessings.


Truthinchrist 2 years ago

Roamns 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

FOOLS!


Felix 14 months ago

According to Jesus' words Angels are incorporeal Matthew 22:30. In Luke 3:38 Adam is the son of God surely his offspring qualify to the same genealogy. I believe there are two different creations of mankind in the Bible in Genesis 1:27 non-adamic, and the Adamic in chapter 2. These are two different accounts. To which of the Angels did God ever said today you are my son? Does that ring a bell Mickey to you?

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