Worlds problems: jealousy, hate, materialism, control, money hungry..... many, many more. It is unbelief - sin problem.
Maybe if MORE people who claimed to be Christian actually walked the walked, then just maybe.
But, since most of them cannot see anything beyond themselves and their beliefs, and how THEY can impose their beliefs on that of someone else's life, then NO!
in all truth, you cagsil have the right answer. most so called christians dont know enough or care to know enough about the real GOD to know the answers to the problems of this world. the saying that a little information can be a dangerous thing is true. they know a few truths and believe it is all they need to know and stop growing and start preaching. to be a true follower of the real GOD is a life long thing, one never stops learning and growing. the more you learn the more you realize you have to learn. one very important lesson is that if GOD gave man the freedom to choose then who are we to force anyone to believe as we do? everyone has a right to believe as they wish, whether we agree with that belief or not. we are to love all equally regardless of their belief. that is following the example set forth by CHRIST. i do know what the problems of this world are. i also know that unless someone is where i am in my understanding, they wont know or understand it. just like i cant understand things someone further along tham me understands things. it is a simple fact of life.
Yes, I know.
Yes, and if allowed it could also be something which is used to form irrelevant and irrational delusional thoughts.
I'm not sure about these "few truths" they supposedly know or believe. Most of them don't bother. Just claim based on faith and little else.
And, it's apparent most of them do precisely the opposite. They stop learning and growing.
Really? The more I learn, the more I learn I know quite a bit as it stands and still have a lot to learn.
It would help more so if people would learn that their beliefs are their beliefs and don't apply to all people regardless of belief.
Yes people have a right to believe as they choose to believe. What they don't have the right to do is lie to other people.
I do that, so you would be talking to the wrong person about it.
Lead by example.
Yes, I do as well.
And if someone is already to beyond your understanding, will you know it? or even acknowledge it? Probably not.
Actually, if you cannot understand something because of the way the person is trying to explain it to you, then it is their fault for you not understanding what it is that they are saying. There's also a likelihood that your own ego is in the way. It is for you to determine which is happening. Good luck with that part though. I've learned how to do it.
complaining, criticizing... are u better?
We never claim we are perfect as you do. But He who is in us is perfect.
I don't claim to be perfect. I've learned to accept my flaws. I'm always high on awareness which allows me the power to see my ego and when it's over powering my conscience.
Can you say the same? Probably not.
Btw- Christians and anyone else who follows a World Religion are definitely not perfect. They just think they were made that way.
Cagsil, I'm not interested to undermine or demean you, each of us (of course) may believe whatever we choose to believe, I only assert here, for your honest consideration, that your view (as you present in these forums) of what Christianity is indeed your view and is not an accurate representation of authentic Christianity. I am a Christian and I have studied the Bible for decades, and what you suggest Christians to be like is not what I am like and what you assert the Bible to present as the truth is not what it presents as the truth.
Again, my interest is not to assault you in any manner, think of it like this; if you're an American and I asserted in these forums that as an American you must certainly hate Indians and regret the end of slavery, that you probably stand at least 7 feet tall, and that you float instead of walk, you would respond that you are in fact an American and that I apparently don't know what I'm talking about as much as I might imagine. I am a Christian, I study the Bible, and what I see you present here (and even in a mocking and self-congratulatory manner) as Christianity is simply your own notions of Christianity and not at all the Christianity that many throughout history and today experience as Christianity.
You can still (of course) reject it and count it foolishness, but you are now rejecting a 'Christianity' of your own imagination (and/or the popular worldly notions of Christianity) and not even addressing the authentic faith that many yet follow. This might sound a quip, even a bit snotty, but i honestly don't intend it as such, but - a good first step to sorting-out your own false notions of what Christianity is and what it actually is might be to not assume that you practice such an relentless awareness that you own a power to objectively see your ego seize the seat of your reasoning and volition . . . humility is a solid first step toward knowing, and submitting to, truth.
That brings up an interesting question. I wonder if it is considered a sin to offer forgiveness where none was called for.
If you aren't interested in understanding where someone else is coming from and offer forgiveness because your lack of interest caused you to perceive an attempt at offense, is that an example of cosmic good or bad?
You caught that too, huh?
No. It's an example of a person pushing their own reflection on to other people and applying as if it's not themselves, but someone who is conflicted, all the while failing to see the damage they do and what they are actually doing to begin with.
Funny and sad, at the same time.
Forgive me for saying, Uhri, for many of us, we do not know what we do. Because many of us were only given a pea brain to figure out the entire 99% unknown World. Forgive us Yahweh as we will forgive you when you send most us (made perfect) so imperfect sinners to hell.
Somehow you think I need your forgiveness. Well, I don't. But, the thought was interesting considering I haven't done anything that needed forgiveness by others.
No. They're contribute a large part to them.
I believe Christian philosophy play a great part in solving the problems of the world. But there is Vedic philosophy which has the path to help people find answers for their lives.
Whoever posted this question which is obvious is something else. It is not matter of voting, but the fact. Please read the book: What's So Great about Christianity
by Dinesh D'Souza
Usually it's the Christians that are the worlds problems. Praying to a god doesn't solve problems. They pray and pray and when it doesn't work, they simply say "....well, it's god's will."
The worlds problems are ignorance and hate. Scientifically prayer has been proven to help. Speaking in tongues has been proven to help. Numerous studies have been done on people fighting diseases such as cancer, and those who prayed had a significant improvement over those who did not. And with speaking in tongues they have found through some imaging that people speaking in tongues their imaging color changes and it also affects their healing.
Many people through out the years have done things "In God's name"... that doesn't mean they were directed by God. Look at the cruscades ... all done in the name of God. Were those cruscaders christian? See here is where the problem comes in... we are quick to label people as christian because they say they are... but what happened to "We shall know them by their fruits" . I can say I am a mercedes and sit in a garage all day and go varooom varooom.. but does that make me a mercedes?
The World's problems come down to ignorance and hate. And those things dwell in people.. all sizes, colors and religions. If I was going to point in one direction towards world problems than there are many other groups that have done just as much if not more damage.. like the Nazi Regime. What about the roman empire and the church of Rome? How many have been martyr'd for opposing their enforced beliefs?
Well if answers that Christianity contains are in any way similar to the titles of these ridiculous threads then they will likely be misspelled and rife with grammatical errors.
Religion invented Hell, solve that first?
Not interested in solving it... just want it spelled right.
What words would you like corrected?
What about all the wrong translations and contradictions in the Bible, don't they need to be corrected so we all can move on beyond Med Evil Times
ROFLMAO... feel like fighting do you? My original post was a comment on the spelling and grammar of the multitude of threads that the OP had opened up that day.
Do try to calm down honey... no one wants to play with you right now.
Good thought, why do I keep trying to make sense out of med evil times which dose not apply very well to today's living, I'm almost always calm and cool, and must forget about trying understand religion for a while.
two words if understood would clearly give the answer to your question. Those two words are flesh and spirit. The "world" is a system of the flesh that has a host of demonic activity behind it. Satan is the ruler of the kingdoms of the "world". The life of the spirit is the kingdom of God and operating in the spirit is the only way to overcome the world. To operate in the spirit you first must be born of the spirit. The life of the spirit is the life Jesus came to give us. the life of the flesh only produces death it is not true life. the life of the spirit is true life. Up to this point in time or this age God in his mercy has kept the world from reaping the fruit of their system of death and destruction but the age is close upon us when God will lift his hand of mercy and the world will reap it's full fruition of death and destruction, and Christians will perish along with it two whatever degree they have participated in it.Read Matthew 4:8-11
That solve nothing, only inflames more fight clubs.
I agree in a sense that there is a physical and a spirit if you like. Whether the concepts of Satan or God have dominion over whatever realm we operate from is debatable depending on what you meant. I would not negate one for the other (flesh for spirit or vice versa) as this is not useful. We cannot have one without the other. Each needs the other for us to exist as we know us to exist and it is more useful when they work in sync.
Pennyofheaven I never said the physical would be eliminated. Just to clarify I said the "world" is a system that is governed by the flesh. I agree the spirit and flesh do work in sync, the problem is that man has totaly eliminated the spirit. The spirit I am talking about is the spirit life Jesus came to give us. The out of sync started in the garden when Adam and Eve fell. Jesus came to restore that balance,actualy to perfect it,but man has not fully appropriated the work of the cross of Christ. Christians included. The earth responds to this out of sync.I believe the bible is the word of God and that is the only thing I will refer to. If you read Romans chapter 8 the apostle Paul goes into detail about this. he covers the balance bettween flesh and spirit and how the earth and mankind groans for the full redemption of Christ. and how we will suffer for it but the final outcome is the glory of God being revealed in us. I forgot to mention the good part about Gods glory in my first comment. sorry for that I have been told by God not to do that oops.
I didn't think you said the physical world would be eliminated. I wouldn't say eliminated but negate or ignore is more how I would describe it. Spirit cannot be eliminated as I understand it. The spirit of life might be able to be eliminated but only if it is in conceptual form. I see Jesus as demonstrating how to restore the balance by example and that man may not have understood it in it's entirety. To believe that he could or can restore others balance would mean we do not understand the nature of the spirit within. I understand what you are pointing to but am not sure you realize the depth of what you are saying and how it relates to the here and now of our existence and the active role we ourselves play in revealing the glory of God or part thereof.
Pennyofheaven you are right I used the wrong word we can not eliminate the spirit, you used the right word ignore. that is what the "world" is doing. I do realize the depth of what I am saying and the role we are to play in the revealing of Gods glory. Our minds are so conformed to this world that what I am sying seems crazy, but if you read the bible without the influence of tradition and mans doctrines and allow the holy spirit to show you the true meaning you will see this from Genesis to Revelation. Gods plan from the beginning of creation was that we (the bride) as we become one with Christ through his spirit will bring the kingdom of God on earth and return this whole fallen creation back into paradise. There are an elite few who will achieve this first (the dead in Christ) and they will be the example for the others to follow. All who are in the graves and sleep will come back to earth and join us. there is no heaven with mansions somewhere where we will spend eternity. I am not trying to push my beliefs on anybody, but this is what God has shown me and I am just a voice for him.
Ironic, 90% of the world is religious and yet you're here to make the claim that people are ignoring G/god. Hmmm....I wonder how you reached your conclusion?
Apparently you haven't gotten the message, so let me lay it out for you- it's your belief, it's your so-called personal relationship with said belief. If there were more people who walked the walk, then there would be less conflict in the world.
The problem is a few of the world's religions don't teach peacefulness, but teach division.
Really? I've read it a few times now. And with other research I have done about World Religions, it would be virtually improbable that anyone could eliminate any influence of tradition or man's doctrine, and honestly read the book. I know it can be dishonestly, but that shouldn't come as a surprise.
No G/god required to do that. I hope you do realize that.
The word of God can not be truly understood without the holy spirit. Without the holy spirit the word of God is just law. That is why before Christ came to give us the Holy spirit there was only law. Hidden in that law was Gods entire plan of salvation and full redemption of Christ, but it could not be understood by mans limited carnal mind, it only can be understood as it is revealed by the Holy spirit. This is something that does not take place in your mind. Your mind only catches up with it or as the apostle Paul puts it is renewed by it. As far as religion goes religions mean nothing to me. People make religions out of cows,money can be a god. The message I get is Christ and in him crucified. And that message is from Genesis to Revelation. It is a beautiful message and I don't understand why people get offended by it. Well then again I guess I do they are way to conformed to the "world".
Yeah, I have heard that before.
For YOU it's Law. Keep it that way. You'll cause less conflict.
Dude this stuff is too funny! Jesus' message is resoundingly clear, once you strip the mystic junk.
It doesn't take place period.
A believer in S/Paul? Yeah, that's your mistake. You believe a person who wrote his own interpretation of what was supposedly written about Jesus and added in some of the mystic philosophy of his time, to carve out a New Testament.
Do you know why the New Testament was actually written? Probably not. I'm pretty sure you'll say it was because Jesus came to deliver the holy spirit and complete the Old Testament.
However, the truth be told, the main reason there's a shift from fear laden G/god to a guilt laden G/god. There was a noticeable shift in consciousness, a higher level of awareness which began to rise and the Church need to defend against the increased awareness. Why? With increased awareness comes increased brain activity, thoughts begin racing and trying to calm them down requires a consciously active individual. The need for rational thought and reason become a survival trait. The Church wanted to maintain it's ability to manipulate people through it's "religion", getting you to feel guilty is easy, because you will constantly think about it, which will distract you from other things.
Once you see and learn that it's all BS, except for Jesus' original teachings of love, mercy and compassion then things would be better all around. All of these traits are required for peace on Earth.
I think I understand your thinking. the bible is not infaliable and mans own conciuosness is basically God. You have every right to believe that but I do not and in fact I believe that is what got the world in the state it is in today. That is the lie satan told Eve in the garden and she fell for it. History is always repeating itself, so good luck with that, I already know the outcome of that way of thinking.
No. God has a plan and purpose for His creation that can reasonably be set forth as "the answer to the worlds problems" - Christians are just as corrupted and fallible as all men . . . we are merely those who, being adopted by God and filled with His own Spirit, point back to the historic event of the incarnation and atonement of Jesus of Nazareth as the only hope of men to, finally, enjoy God's "answer to the worlds problems".
God give the Jews the answers to all the world's problems, but the Jews chose them self. All we have to do is look back and see what God gave the Jewish nation, in every part of our life and our problem will be answered. Just because christianity is not living up to what God want them, that do not mean they done have the answers.
I think this is one of those trick questions or maybe it's a trick answer because do christians have the answer to world problems.. they do if they are pointing you towards God.
But do they themselves have all the answers? LOL.. no.
Dedicated to Cags:
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
I'm counting on you, Lord, please don't let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
no...if u see since last 800 yrs christian countries have progressed and since last 400 yrs they have dominated the world...now whatever we see as world's problems are outcome of christian countries to larger extent...
so simple answer is NO..
No they can't even get the basics right. They wistfully talk about loving their neighbour as themselves, and loving enemies and doing good to them, then support George Dubbya's wars; claim that universal healthcare is an infringement on their personnal rights; they are intolerant to homosexuals but happily tolerate divorced and remarried couples; then tell everyone that God is going to set anyone who doesn't agree with them on fire.
You have a miss understanding of God and christianity. God love everyone no matter who they are homosexuals, black, white, no matter whom may come let them come free. A person that call themselves christian and hate their brother is not a christian. Who is his brother everyone no matter who they are. Just because you say you are a christian done mean that you are. But, even christian fall short. So done judge all christian by a few christians acts. Some homosexuals are great people, some are not, some christian are great people some are not, some black people are great people some are not, and some white people are great people some are not.
You mean all I have to be is a good person and love everyone in order to be a good Christian,
Are you sure it is that simple?
Wonder if I was a Jewish black and born a homosexual, plus a good person, am I still a Christian to all Christain?
I think if you want to be a good christian that you have to separate religion from relationship. You have to realize that you aren't perfect and that is why you need a God.
And I think it's about believing in the impossible with all your heart. And its about not trying so DANG hard to be perfect but just doing your best every day... and let all the other things work themselves out. What is it that the Word says.. if you seek me with all your heart you will find me. I think that is one of the big keys.
It's maybe not as simple as a sinners prayer or a few words, but it also maybe is not as hard as some make it out to be. It doesn't have to be about legalism, religion or rules upon rules..
What is really interesting to me about your argument and the 1000's just like it is... you express how christians judge a person for their lifestyle or beliefs... but yet two things popped into my mind when I read these kind of thoughts..
1. How can we judge another person until we have walked a mile in their moccassins, and are living their life, their beliefs? I can't understand where your animosity comes from when it pertains to christians, because I'm not in your shoes, but I have to wonder if you truly have looked into their beliefs, practiced them?
2. Isn't it like the pot calling the kettle black? It's like your accusing them of these things, but aren't you showing the same emotions and prejudice towards them that you are accusing them of?
Too often you hear "He/she is a good person because they are Christian"
Most people are basically good, I only question a group or person's behavior and if they are able to live and let live as I do.
If they are too negative and like to fight too much,then I just ignore them and they loose their power, I know enough that Religion will be shrinking in the future and my questions will be fewer. It is not the End of the World it's a newer wave of a spiritual age and understanding
I think animosity toward Christianity comes from an enormous amount of respect for the figure of Jesus. To see his deep wisdom eroded and shaved down to a simple solution of 'say he's the son of God and you are automatically saved' , without incorporating his teachings into your life, makes a mockery of every word the gospels attribute to him.
I find it easier to give latitude to any sect that doesn't call themselves Christian first, other religions and atheists. Probably because we all know about the life of Jesus and affiliating yourself with his name, while standing in direct contradiction to everything he stood for, is very difficult to process at times.
How can one put down a person like Jesus, it's not his fault the this amateur shaman ways caused Christian to run a mock. My mystic senses tell me Jesus was very spiritual and intelligent person for his time. How the translations and contradiction have run a mock, is no mysterious to me, For any over ego group claiming to be the be all and end all would cause this kind delusion and isolate themselves from other groups and cause being evasive toward others.
I spent 25 years in the Church of various flavours. I've seen many a right wing Christian rant on this forum. I stand by what I said. If a Christian supported the illegal war in Iraq and the fools errand in Afganistan; if they oppose universal healthcare on principle rather than its implementation; if they ignore what Jesus said about divorce and remarriage but condemn the homosexual about which Jesus had nothing to say; and if they think that the one who told us to do good to our enemies will do the exact opposite Himself; then I do not believe they have even grasped the basics of Christianity.
ER christians can say that it is that easy, but that doesn't make it so. It also isn't terribly hard once the individual makes an admission to themselves: We are all the sons and daughters of God. Some of us are prodigal sons and daughters, but sons and daughters nonetheless. Once that admission is made within, everything begins to make sense. It takes time to understand the implications, but that is really the first step. It would result in a complete reversal of a particular mindset which acts as an obstacle to our comprehension.
The world's problems are all based upon ego (selfishness, self-importance, etc).
So, yes, Christianity is the answer.
The object of Homo sapiens, civilization and religion is the reawakening of the child of God within. Ego is what stands in the way and that's a tough nut to crack on our own. Christ made it easier for us, but it's still a rough road to travel. Not many have the stomach or patience for it.
I think Gautama Siddhartha Buddha made it, but his was a rare breakthrough. Far too rare.
Did Buddha make to Yahweh heaven?
The largest group like Christian who are the champion of wars, prisons, fighting and judging others is going to teach about our ego which, only can come from a jealous Yahweh,
I'm going to buy a fox to guard my hen house, now.
So much for the answer toward over ego?
Evidently christianity isn't the only answer.
Atheists are taking over and all goes downhill.
There are always choices. There are other answers, but that doesn't mean any of them are right answers. What if its like a test where you have choices....
What is the right way?
a. The way
But what if like all tests.. only one answer is the right one but the others look like they could fit. Kinda like on trick questions. But only one is right... the question then is... you have a 1 out of 6 chance... what happens if you picked the wrong one?
. . . however, the trick is actually this: if there is a true truth, if there is an infinite and eternal deity, then there is one truth amidst a multitude of false notions. Now, when we thoroughly and honestly examine the great variety of religious ideas of our world, we discover a very dramatic circumstance - all the religions of the world may differ in specifics, in how many wives and man may have, the proper use of prayer, diet, ritual, etc, etc, etc, but they all present the same basic premise; all religions of the world, essentially, assert that there is some manner of God, some creator/manager, who men must appease in some manner (perhaps we've offended him, perhaps seeking a good harvest, perhaps just to become our best 'us', etc) . . . we must pray and/or sacrifice, we must practice prescribed rituals, we must follow his commands, etc, etc, in order for things to be 'right' (good crops, get to nirvana, whatever) between God and man. They all look different but offer essentially the same premise.
All except one. If there is a truth, if there really is a God and He is the God that He is and He is not whatever we might imagine He is or should be, then there is a single right idea about Him among a multitude of lies. What is compelling, it seems to me, is that among all the religions of the world there is only one that presents a very opposite idea than all the rest . . . Christianity claims that it is not a religion, that it is not a system of ideas that men came to seeking an explanation for the lights in the sky, hope in time of famine, answers to their own identity and purpose, etc, but that it is eternal truth divinely revealed to us by God Himself. Now, many religions claim they posses the true word of God, but only Christianity asserts that word to present idea totally different from the essentially same idea that all other religions offer.
Christianity alone teaches that there is no appeasement, that we cannot 'make things right' between ourselves and God, that obedience and rituals, etc, are useless to us - that we are not God's children and that left to ourselves and any practice of a religion we are without hope. All the religions man has concocted tell us that we are little gods, that we need to fan the spark of divinity within us, that we must obey and do things just right, etc, and then god will approve of us - only Christianity says that's all bullshit and that there's nothing we can do. If men are confronted with any eternal truth at all, then either all the world's religions are variations of the truth and Christianity is the one idea that is false - or all the world's religions are false and Christianity alone is a revelation of the truth.
Though I agree with much of what you say, most of the Church perhaps would not.
Some denominations would not exist without their rituals, formulas, confessions, prayer-song-song-prayer-sermon-song prayer-song services.
As for appeasing God, many in the Church still attempt this with rules and regulations about church attendance, evangelism, bible studies and how often and how long we should spend in daily prayer. If that wasn't enough to confirm that someone is a "proper Christian" there are all the rules forbidding what a Christian can do such as drinking, going to the movies, nightclubs, pubs and bars, listening to secular music. You may dismiss these rules, but they and the like are often enforced in many churches.
Then there is the "correct doctrine" approach. A Christian is predominantly judged by his peers based upon what he believes. Believe the wrong thing and one is not a "proper Christian"; that God might not bless you, or that you might "lose your salvation".
Despite all the ideals of the apostolic church, it didn't take long for the organised church to morph Christianity into just another man-seeking-to-appease-God religion.
I absolutely agree with your qualification - it's undeniable that men is religious by nature, that we are inclined to canonize liturgy, conduct, and doctrine, every culture has developed religion and the man left to himself will concoct a religion . . . even materialist atheists practice their materialist atheism as a religion. man will make a religion out of any circumstance, event, or idea - including the eternal truth God reveals to us. Much of (I will speak only of historic and of contemporary American) Christendom is in truth a poor man-made religion fashioned after a similitude of authentic Christianity.
I understand many will rebut that each 'Christian' group will assert it is the true Christian group and many will offer as evidence of the legitimacy of each group's claim that the Bible can be used to support whatever the reader desires it to support, that the Bible says nothing really but means what it means to whoever takes whatever meaning they prefer to take from it. I, however, fully reject that popular and common argument - the Bible is a book (unlike any other book it alone is inspired authoritative truth) and can be, ought o be (in a sense0 read like any other book. If you (whoever) tells me that in "A Tale Of Two Cities" Sydney Carton pretends to offer himself to save Charles Darnay and in the end marries Lucie, I could open to page so-and-so of the book and show you that this simply is not a factual account of what the book presents - Rome (for instance) had to invent the notion of the authority of papal tradition to suggest such things as limbo, the mass, priestly celibacy, etc, the Mormons had to 'discover' a whole new extra book to suggest all their goofy ideas, as with Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, etc, etc. These groups can assert that teach the truth, but they cannot assert that they teach historic Biblical Christianity because what they teach is demonstrably not historic Biblical Christianity.
So, yes, I agree, much within Christendom is just as religious, just as much man-made religiosity, as Hinduism, Islamism, Druidism, Voodooism, and every other man concocted religion. But the Bible stands in opposition to all religion, authentic Christianity remains distinct from every notion man has devised to explain and/or manipulate the unexaminable.
Take the mysticism out of the book and it will read like a consciousness guide book, which will lead one to find Jesus' teachings of love, mercy and compassion. Otherwise, forget it.
Where do you get this 'Jesus' whose teaching on conduct is acceptable but His teaching on spiritual (mystical) matters is foolishness? Do you have other sources you count more valid than the text of Scripture, or do you just take what you like and leave what you don't like? How do you determine what of Jesus is of value and what is of no worth?
And, if love, mercy and compassion are the paramount or only) issue with you, why not set Jesus aside completely and take-up Paul as your teacher . . . Jesus spoke of sin and judgment and hell, etc, more than He did of love, mercy and compassion - while Paul hardly ever isn't talking about love, mercy and compassion. This common and popular notion that Jesus was cool and peaceful and not interested to start a religion while Paul was ornery and rigid and just in it for his own interests is a ludicrous conclusion if you actually read the text.
I didn't say it is foolish to start off. I said take out the mysticism tied to it. Spiritual doesn't mean mystical, but metaphysical.
The Human Psyche isn't mystical. It can be explained. Mystical junk uses assumption based on irrationality.
Mysticism is intellectual dishonesty of the individual.
Many years ago I spoke with a Priest and I asked him a question, which he referred me back to the bible. This showed me how dishonest Priests are. And you think the bible doesn't teach dishonesty in it's whole form? Wake up dude. On a side note- I don't have to take anything in the bible seriously because Jesus' true message of love, mercy and compassion is covered up in junk mysticism.
Once you get rid of the junk in it, and you just take his message, and then walk those steps, then you would be doing great. Until then, I can only hope and faith in you to sooner or later discern the actual truth.
You're kidding, right? Common sense says it all.
You're too funny. Love, mercy and compassion are not the only things which need to be learned to complete Jesus' teaching. And, as for S/Paul is an idiot. Dumber than the average male of his time. But smart enough to be dishonest about his interpretation of Jesus' teachings....taken down the same path all other have been led...mysticism...to dishonesty.
Really? And you know this how? By the bible you use to support a mysticism based position. Yet fail to see you're being dishonest with yourself. Irony, I guess.
Secondly, people were KILLED for blasphemy during his time and when he claim to be God, is when he was deemed by the Romans as a threat to "Religion" already in place.
You think he died for your sins. When he was murdered for the sins of the most dishonest, to hide their own actions from becoming realized and having all out chaos ensue shortly afterwards.
Not to mention, the only languages available all had religious context to them, which was what Jesus had to work with. Hiding his teachings spoken in the primitive religious languages, so those of Religion wouldn't know what he was doing. He despised Religion because he KNEW it was false, worshiped a false idol. Why do you think Jesus said all were Gods? Because, all your answers are within your own capability and potential to find.
Actually, I have read the text. I also did a little background research of World Religions and Human Development over the centuries. This also touching on philosophy and it's roots.
C ~ "I didn't say it is foolish to start off"
. . . I understand that, but you talk to Christians as though they are foolish to be Christians - and this puzzles me, not merely on a basis of practicing a mature and civil consideration of ideas, but it seems to me particularly puzzling coming form someone advocating the virtue of "love, mercy and compassion".
At any rate, as to the rest of your response:
Ok, (sort of) but - you didn't answer my question; Where do you get this 'Jesus' whose teaching on conduct is acceptable but His teaching on matters you identify as mysticism? If the Bible is an untrustworthy document, then what teachings of Jesus are there on love, mercy and compassion do you find acceptable . . . what is it that you know of Jesus, where do you learn it?
I'm not advocating love, mercy and compassion. I'm advocating for something MORE than that, because that alone is meaningless in a truly conscious world. Those three things will not stand alone to accomplish peace or peace of mind.
I don't talk to people as though they are foolish. I'm of the understanding that there's a time to be a student and a time to be a teacher, and each one of us is inclined to do both. The problem is recognizing when you have to be which one. It requires the removal of ego. Once you recognize your ego, then you can determine when you are truly operating on honesty. Otherwise, you're only fooling yourself. Thus, deceiving yourself.
It is important for people to become consciously active in their OWN life, much less worry about other people and what they do. It's irrational fear which leads to people demanding other people believe them, and that fear is inside the person demanding to be heard.
I don't demand. I simply state things as I'm to understand them. Most "religious" are irrational in their own thought process, which leads them to make irrational beliefs which do damage to other people's life when voiced.
90% of the known world was practicing religion, long before Jesus was ever born. Everything before Jesus is tainted with mysticism. Many civilizations ruled under the EXTREME rule of God's law, and it was destructive. Many people were enslaved or executed for voicing anything in defiance. There was no such thing as "rights" as you have now. You didn't have any voice at all. Those who had supposed insight or contact with God were the ones in favor. All the rest were enslaved. People didn't just walk around freely. Speak freely.
Mystics and oracles, which we now know are part of mysticism. Mysticism has been deemed intellectually dishonest with self, if you practice it. You practice it because you believe in the bible, which IS religion. The false G/god you were warned about by Jesus, yet billions of people have been sucked in.
Unfortunately, I'm bound by an agreement by which I cannot discuss that. Sorry. Btw- anyone who is aware enough to see past their own ego, can derive Jesus' message without needing to believe in the mystic junk.
It's actually the reason why many people today are moving away from Religion itself. His message is resounding more everyday and there's no need to think he is a G/god. He was a human man who was extremely smart and he envisioned a world where people would be able to reach their fullest capabilities and to help people realized their inner potential. Life is about living, the path you choose, the good you do, the harm you cause, all the while learning life lessons about the world you live in and the people who surround you.
No god required.
C - "I'm not advocating love, mercy and compassion"
I didn't mean to suggest that you have some mission here (or in life) to promote love, mercy, and compassion, I am saying that, within the context of this particular discussion, you are approving of Jesus' message of love, mercy, and compassion while you are disapproving of attaching any (what you identify as) mysticism to Him. And my question remains; where do you get your information from? The same text that asserts what Jesus taught asserts what he did . . . how do you determine that 'this' portion of an ancient document is valid but 'that' portion ought to be disregarded? If you simply own a capacity to recognize truth among a collection of true and false teaching then what do you need Jesus for . . . I mean, of what benefit is there (for you) to even mess with what to take and what to leave of the Scriptural Jesus if you yourself act as the final authority of the worth of what is presented?
C - "I don't talk to people as though they are foolish"
I disagree - I hope I'm mistaken and I've just misread you, but you seem to respond to orthodox, Bible-based Christians in a condescending tone as though they are foolish, not because of any point or counterpoint they've presented here, but merely because they are orthodox, Bible-based Christians . . . it seems, to me, that you have come to conclude for yourself that you cannot believe what the Bible presents as the truth, and that you imagine that you have come to this conclusion because you are intelligent and internally honest - the consequence is (it seems to me) that you talk to orthodox, Bible-based Christians with the assumption that they then must be unintelligent and internally dishonest. As I say, perhaps I've misread you, but you often (to me) seem flip, terse, and condescending when a thoughtful consideration of ideas could be enjoyed and benefited from.
C - "Once you recognize your ego, then you can determine when you are . . ."
. . . but, you don't imagine that you are the only one who has so come to know themselves, do you? And, you don't assume that this self-awareness is only possible for those who reject historic Biblical Christianity, do you?
You do know the bible is a historical document and a mythology book right? Do you know which is mythology and which is proven history? If not, do the research instead of asking me where I got my information. Common sense and knowledge do work wonder MickeySr.
I have taken into account the history of the world, the history of religions and human development. Knowing which part of Jesus' teachings are valid is simple because if there's NO apparent 'need', then it is most likely because of honesty. The need for love is obvious. The need for compassion is obvious. The need to have mercy on those who don't know any better is obvious. The need for a G/god is an illusion based on mysticism.
I've already told you. Do you not read?
Actually, the text asserts that Jesus did and taught things, but is a simple assertion based on other people's interpretation, which was then supposedly written by someone else.
I don't do anything. I don't determine which portion is what. I let the research lead me to the conclusion. Since conscience is honesty, the conclusion becomes obvious, when you take world history and history of world religions, the sequence of events and the chain reaction over time which has led the human species to this point.
I don't. What would make you think I would?
I don't act as the final authority. The fact that you see in this manner is a pure sign of a skewed perception. The benefit to me? My purpose in life is to help other people and when I help other people, I find it peaceful.
Ever heard of "Christian persecution complex". You've got it. I don't talk to people condescendingly. I may use words which might seem like that, but I'm actually attempting to deal with the irrationality of said beliefs. I'm bound to break a few eggs along the way.
The fact that you appear defensive in this section of your post is pure ego defending faith. Granted, it's a misplaced faith, but still defending faith. I've concluded and found a universal truth in which I know Peace and Peace of Mind can be achieved by every single person who applies it to their life. So please, let's cut the BS about the Bible holding truth.
Most are internally dishonest. So, what's your point?
Must be you seeing and passing along your own reflection.
I don't imagine anything of the sort. I don't give it a second thought. I begin conversations with people to assess them as an individual and whether or not, they truly understand their own life. And, I'm sorry to say, but approximately almost every person I have ever met, don't understand their own life. You know, I'm the most honest person I know, and that my friend is a conscience truth.
Self-awareness is only increased due to knowledge(including experience) and wisdom. I'm sure you can learn a few life lessons from the bible because even if you read it for whatever reasons, an honest person would be able to identify Jesus' end message of love, mercy and compassion. After which, they would eventually learn the other aspects which would be required for peaceful existence with others and peace of mind for self.
I pick them all, All for one, One for all.
Only one way to God or only one way towards a higher power is false
I don't know... I have walked most of them, and seemed to me that wide was the way to destruction, but narrow was a path to a higher power.
Although I found a lot of false gods along the way.
The power within is the highest power for each of us, we know.
How would you know what God has the ultimate power or highest energy from the 99% spiritual unknown World and Universe unknown for each of us?
As our knowledge of the World and Universe keeps expanding, you are trying to narrow it all down to tight path
Like water...seek the path of least resistance. Like water, you will find your own level.
I don't believe Christians have the answers to the worlds problems. I believe Christians have the answer to how to get through any trial in this world. As far as the world is concerned and living in it; it is not so much the destination of the journey but how we get through the journey itself and who we rely upon!
Interesting statements. The world problems are the trial and tribulations of the individual. Your statements conflict. You say they don't, but in the next sentence, you say they do.
And Christians and many other religious people would highly disagree.
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