I heard a Muslim woman teach a section of the Koran, and in that monologue, she stated something to the effect that Muslims may enter heaven through torture, and some without.
I guess, a "good" Muslim will enter without, and a not-so-good one will suffer torment to enter.
Is this a universal POV, or is it open to interpretation?
Curious to hear about this.
I would guess it was really simple and exactly the same idea as the christian heaven and every other heaven through to nirvana - some attain a special state after death through just living a (subjectively) good life and some through hardship
It could be a metaphor for the tortures one might need to go through in the mind to find the purity of mind that could be said to be heavenly in nature. Those who don't have such a complex mind will not have any tortures to endure and might enter the heavenly state easily?
Well; the one's who were tortured by an oppressive government or invading powers, will get a better level in the heavens as the one's who had to bear torture and those who lived a comfortable life cannot be treated the same way by a God that is not unjust. So, the more hardships one suffers, the more his reward will be-- its simple. Even in this world, the people who work more hard, get more pay.
Thanks for the answers, but I was of the understanding that they (the Muslims) have a version of purgatory, much like the Catholics. So, their suffering (torture) is not in this lifetime.
You are welcome-- aka-dj: Actually according to Islam, this world is a place of test and the hereafter is a place of reward. So, the harder the test that you get in this world, the more lenient would be the marking of the test. In Islam a person is not punished for the sins of his parents so, if a child is born blind, it is not considered as a punishment. It is considered as a special person whom God chose for a harder test so, that God can give him a very high place in the heavens. I know that many religions will not agree with this view, but that is what Islamic view is about the hardships that we get in this world. I remember that when I was in Sri Lanka, they use to consider an ill person as a cursed person and nobody use to visit an ill person specially in the morning or with children.
yes you can call it a version of purgatory. if your bad deeds are greater than good then you will have to pay for them, either in this world or the next .
Strangley enough Christians used to think this. In the Medieval period criminals were often tortured to death (usually by having parts cut off with red hot pincers).
The justification for this wasn't so much that it entertained the crowd (although, apparently, it did) as that it forced honest repentance and gave the miscreant a better chance of reaching the Kingdom of Heaven,
@ Will Apse-- Its sad to hear about the Medieval period crimes committed by so- called Christian leaders. By the way, Islam does not allow torture as a tool to obtain confession under any circumstances-- not even to control the terrorism as, Islam thinks that torture creates terrorism-- instead of controlling it.
Allah said that 'every soul will taste death'.
In Islam after everyone dies the torture or punishment in the grave is for certain people and not for others. If before someone dies, they say 'La ilaha illallahu Muhammadur Rasul ullah' then Allah will forgive all of their sins and they will not have any punishment in the grave or hereafter.
If a person does not say that and and they were a believer but not a good person, they will receive punishment for the sins they did in this life. If a person is a believer and does as Allah told that person to do in this life, for example follow the Quran and the way of the Prophet, then Allah may forgive their sins and also the punishment in the grave.
No one knows and no one can guess if they will be punished or not, and also no one knows if they will say the kalima or not before they die, only Allah knows.
A Muslim person will know if they will be punished or not straight after they die because when Azrael comes to take the soul out of the body, if the soul comes out easily then the later stages will be easier. If not then Allah knows there may be punishment in the grave and in the hereafter.
When a person is buried, they will be woken up in their grave by two angels, and if they are wearing scented white clothes that means the gates of heaven (jannah) will be open until judgement day after they are asked three questions and if they answer them correctly. If that person is woken up by two angels who are wearing black stinky clothes then the gates of hell will be open for them until the day of judgement if they cannot answer the three questions.
Those three questions will be:
1. What is your deen? (Religion)
2. Who is your rab (Allah/God)?
3. Who was sent to you with the message of Allah?
These three questions will be answered easily by good practising muslims whose sins have been forgiven by Allah, but people with bad deeds will not be able to answer them. Answering these questions is not a thing of memorising them, our hearts will answer them if we worship and obey Allah in this life. If we do not obey and worship Allah in this life, then answering these three questions will be impossible.
I hope i have answered your question, in great detail.
Virtually all religions have a similar basic principle as you described.
IE, if ones "good" deeds outweigh their "bad" deeds, they enter (their version of) heaven.
Why is there any necessity for people to be/become Muslim then?
It appears to me that it is (for all intents and purposes) a universal drive in humans to want to do good and please their (understanding of) God/god.
Should that not be sufficient for "God/god", whatever one conceives him to be?
I remember speaking with Mormon believers also, and they say very similar things about their faith.
I know Catholics teach similar (depending on the sub groups focus) things.
Muslims say Mohammad is the true prophet/representative/spokesperson for god
Mormons say it's Joseph Smith
Catholics, Jesus Christ/the pope.
Who's correct, and why?
If I were looking for the answer to 'which religion is the right one', I would have checked whether it provides a comprehensive solution to the problems that arise in human society. Also answers to all the questions that my curiosity forces me to know.
Muslims never even claim that Mohammad brought a new religion with a new God. They only say that Mohammad is the last prophet-- and own and respect ; Abraham, Jacob and Jesus equally as the predecessors of Mohammad. And also that the Shariah that was brought by Mohammad is the final version of the divine books sent before.
Also Islam is more close to human nature as it knows that a human is only driven by two things; fear and incentive. This is exactly what you will find in Quran. Not to mention in our own society, this is what we learned that if you remove the fear of police and prison, people are people and will do anything. Examples can be found in New Orleans where the police left after Katrina and the lawlessness went to such extremes that even the media had to be banned from the area.
I have a real hard time accepting this perspective.
If Mohammed is the last of messengers/prophets like Moses, Abraham, Jesus and any others you claim, there is such a huge difference between the Biblical message and the Koran(ic) message.
This suggests only one of two possibilities.
1;- they are messages from the same god who changes and contradicts himself
2;- these are two completely separate messages, (and hence, sources of the message) and cannot co-exist.
Just seeing the animosity between the two (major) world religions, I tend to favor the second option.
What do you say?
I forgot to mention that also if a person had many bad deeds, even then if Allah wishes, that person may be forgiven for one small good deed, so then that person may not get punished in the grave or in the hereafter.
It is very simple, everyone should try to live a good life to the extent Allah has provided for them and not disobey Him.
Allah said, 'I did not create mankind and jinn except to worship me'. This means that we were all created by Allah to only worship Him and obey his instructions in the Glorious Quran.
When it comes to the questions of Jihad etc, only people who are misguided and misunderstand the Quran and the way of the Prophet Muahmmad (peace be upon Him) carry out killing and opression unlawfully, which is totally prohitied in the religion of Islam.
aka-dj--- There is a third possibility as well which is that the same God sent more details as the human mind developed with time. First it was then Ten Commandments, then Torah, Bible and finally Quran. Or even corrected what the followers sometimes changed in former books to make them suit their interests and pleasure drive.
By the way I also noticed that Quran has some differences with present day Bible/Bibles—which surprisingly, it does not have with Torah. For example; kosher, prohibition of pig, beard, monotheism, circumcision, dress modesty, priests getting married, punishment for adultery etc., ---are few examples which suggests that the Torah and Quran may originally be from the same source.
But Quran shares some similarities with Bible as well. Most important of them is that nobody is superior to anybody because of his cast or creed etc., and all humans are equal, they both don’t mention about any divine claim over any other country, they both believe in spreading the message of God to far corners of the world instead of hiding it, they both consider deception as evil even if it is used against their enemy, in both you will find people who have devoted their lives for humanity instead to achieve material gains. These are my honest observations.
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