The fasting and dedication to Islam at Ramadan is admirable and also makes that faith very real I would guess.
If this was a required activity for todays christians I would suspect that it would reduce their numbers to less than 10%
I have heard say that in Britain now, you are not allowed to promote christian festivals if they are likely to offend Muslims !!!!
Not being a follower of either maybe I should not be concerned, yet it looks like a silly, unintelligent and knee-jerk reaction that will not serve any long-term purpose. You don't solve a problem by burying your head in the sand and pretending the problem does not exist.
I am a brit and aware of those issues, I also have no religion of any kind - this is about those vocal qualsi-christians who want to tell everyone how to live their lives by their rules - if they had to fast for a month from daen to dusk I guss most of them would find a more comfortable faith to preach.
Well you wouldn't find any Christians in Northern Scandinavia anymore if Ramadan became compulsory.
There are provisions made for that. When the days are impossibly long, it is acceptable to fast for the Mecca hours.
Worth mentioning too that it is not simply dawn till dusk. You eat before the ablution before the pre-dawn prayer and not again till after the sun-down prayer. These easily put another hour onto the regime.
That's only according to the Daily Mail, Johhny. Right wing publications in the UK are pretty (to say the least) Islamaphobic and will say anything to fear monger. By and by, Muslims and the rest of the UK get along pretty well and as for the Christian Festival aspect, we're a pretty secular nation.
I'm not sure what the numbers are, tbh, but Christians do indeed participate in a 40 day period of fast/abstinence. It's called Lent...and it is the season that leads to the Easter season that follows. I know that there are many Christians who ignore this season because it doesn't line up with their non-denomination beliefs, but it does indeed exist and is alive and well in many of Christianity's denominations.
I find it interesting that it has become very unpopular among western "Christians" but it's an admirable thing for Muslims.
But wasn't lent just about abstinence of meat or other foodstuffs that are enjoyed by the sinful flesh? It wasn't a complete fast sunrise to sunset.
Originally, it was a fast until sunset.
As time went on, it became about abstinence (refraining from meat), no consumption of food/drink between meals, your own personal abstinence for the entire period of Lent (giving something up that is a true sacrifice for you) and mortification (which basically means willingly taking on a task that is difficult/sacrificial for you). According to Canon Law, the only exceptions in terms of fast/abstinence are given to small children, the elderly, or anyone suffering an illness that is in part managed by nutrition.
But it happens every year, and is meant to emulate as best we can the 40 days that Jesus spent in the desert being tempted by the devil. All told, it is to draw us closer to God in preparation for the celebration of the Resurrection.
Lent always was a joke - the fasting limited to 'giving up' eating just meat, or no desert, or no chocolate. This is actual fasting we are talking about.
There are guidelines for Lent (as I mentioned above). Many choose a much more extreme fast during the season, especially within religious communities (religious orders). It's certainly not a joke to devout Catholics, but thanks for the blow off.
Let me know when you choose to jump on the Ramadan bandwagon.
You are welcome to the blow off Having been brought up as a 'devout' catholic in a convent school for girls I am more than well aware of how lent works and how it is reduced to a comfortable giving up of some favourite snack or whatever.
I have no intention of anything that gets between me and sex, food or beer. I am quite attracted to stoning my ex-wife, but apart from that little peccadillo I dont think the robes and headgear suit me, and the way good christian countries keep bombing them puts me off christianity altogether.
Wow. I don't remember you ever being quite so snotty with me.
Sorry about your experiences with Catholicism/Christianity. I know that many have been mistreated and scarred because of it. It appears that you've simply moved on.
Have a good night.
sorry - I didn't think I was being snotty, just treating it with humour and a drop or two of sarcasm. Don't lose any sleep over it, it is just the difference between british and american humour I suspect
No worries. I had an unusual moment of ultra-sensitiveness. And, I generally love (and actually understand) British humor. Musta been the subject that made me touchy.
Have a hug...lol If I could send a beer I'd do so, but I only have one left and I think it might cost a lot to ship across the pond...lol
Recommend1, so sorry, I was under the impression you were a guy!!! Then reading that you were brought up in a convent school for girls, it thought; What the heck? *#*#*# !!!
So what is your point? You suspect. You Assume. You have no Idea. First off not all Muslims fast during Ramadan. Second Christians, do fasting throughout the year especially around the time of Lent, the 40 days prior to the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.
yeah - christians give up biscuits for lent - we all know that.
these Muslim people give up pretty much everything all daylight hours for a month, if those loud self-professed bigots who call themselves christian had to do somthing like this to show their 'love' or 'devotion' rather than just talk about it, most of them would quit - the remaining 10% or so would then get my respect if nothing else
I've read a few responses here about 'Lent' - this is no more 'Christian' than Easter is. If any 'Christian' joins the Ramadan fast, they are serving Allah, not YHWH. The 40-day fast before 'Easter' is that of 'mourning for Tammuz', the son of Ishtar (pronounced Easter), thus celebrating his resurrection on Easter. Read Ezekiel 8:14-15 "Then He brought me to the entrance of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and behold, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz. He said to me, "Do you see this, son of man? Yet you will see still greater abominations than these." Research the pagan practice of the 40-day fast for Tammuz and test yourselves, 'Christians' who practice such a ritual. May God's Truth reign above all.
And speaking of the word 'Easter' being found in Acts 12:4, this is a pagan-magnet translation. Read the Greek, which every bible version except the King James and American King James translates correctly, as Passover. Herod waited until after the Jews celebrated their Passover week to kill Peter, out of respect for the Jews who were happy he killed James (read it in context, beginning with vs. 1).
Well, I couldn't last more than a few hours without food, so I couldn't even consider it, but I see no practical purpose to forced fasting. I can see if someone chooses to fast, for personal religious reasons, but as a religious requirement?...good for the Christians for saying no to letting others force a group activity such as this on them.
How about if Christians give up or fast from: Pedophilia, Multiple Wives (Polygamy), Abuse of women as possessions, Circumcision of women, Flogging women who were Rape Victims, Beheading People who have converted to Christianity (or the reverse as applicable), Burning other Human Beings alive for their faith...
... also give up Filming these executions and You Tube'ing them to "Show the Faith" (Read that Show off to their Peers"...
Christians are told in the Bible by Jesus that our fasts are NOT to be done Openly for men to see but rather are to be done Privately and in Secretly for God's eyes only. So the fact is that You will never know how many Christians Fast.. and you will never know When True Christians fast..
You only know what you want to believe and it matters not what the truth is.. you will continue to believe what you like anyway. Have a nice evening.
Yep... Christians really should give up or fast from Pedophilia (priests) Multiple Wives (Mormons) Abuse of women as possessions (Waco and Warren Jeffs come to mind as well as some nice little verses like Corinthians 11:8-9 and Timothy 2:11-14). You do have the circumcision of women (we just circumcise our infant boys for no particular reason) and the literal flogging of rape victims (see slut walk for the emotional flogging they take).
Could Christians also give up bombing abortion clinics, picketing funerals and burning crosses in the yards of minorities as well? It also might be a pretty good damn idea if we realize that before we judge another religion by it's extremists we might want to get a handle on our OWN...
You have a nice evening too.
I think most of the atrocitites MrMaranatha cited are straight from Sharia - sure, let's fast for Ramadan! NOT. So, we have the Catholic inquisition/crusades that no longer burn and torture 'infidels' - non-Catholics (not to say this won't happen again)...Hey, Hitler was a good Catholic, afterall. Then we have the radical Sharia Law and Islamic 'holy' books that ordain older men marrying very young girls (pre-puberty - legalized pedophelia), most Muslim women cannot refuse a marriage, forced female 'circumcision', beatings, stonings, making them wear burkas, and they behead anyone that leaves Islam (and kill all they consider to be 'infidels' - non-Muslims). And hey, Catholic nuns cover up just the same....All in the name of the god(s) of their religions. I guess this 'Chrislamic' fast is just a sign they have so much in common.
Wow... I never said a word about the crusades...
And it's not Catholics bombing abortion clinics. It's conservative christian zealots. The KKK are mostly southern baptist boys and the funeral picketers are the WBC. Catholics have the priests and mormons (sects) have the polygamy. The Wacos and Warren Jeffs come from all walks of the fundamentalist Christian denominations.
And I could pull things out of the Bible that would look just as horrible as Sharia law. There are Christian idiots who abound that take those verses just as seriously as the fundamentalist Muslims.
My point is either you bash ALL religions for the nutjobs or you bash none. Excluding your own religion's fruitcakes from the mix is a bit hypocritical...
People can call themselves 'Christians', but it doesn't mean they are - many call themselves Jesus, too. Nut jobs are nut jobs. The inquisition and the whole jihad mentality are horrible atrocities. Cults are cults; they all have something in common. I think it has something to do with their 'father', who 'was a murderer from the beginning'. I think this is why Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits" (Mat 7), not by what their lips proclaim (i.e. "I am a Christian", "I am Jesus" or "I am a peaceful Muslim").
So... do you think that the general Muslim population doesn't look at extremists exactly how we look at those Christians who don't happen to fit into our nice little image of what they should be?
Another quick question... Do you think that the extremists Christians consider the moderates as "real Christians?"
Find me any given Christian and I'll find you a million others that say he isn't a "real" Christian. I am assuming I could find a million that say YOU aren't as well.
Absolutely agreed. I was thinking since I posted my last comment that if the Torah and Sharia have so much in common, why are they not embracing one another? It's SOOOO ridiculous!!
The Torah and Sharia don't really have that much in common as one is a form of law and the other is a religious text. The Qur'an and the Torah have a lot in common... Not nearly as much as the bible and the Torah have in common though. And the Qur'an and the bible also have a lot in common.
Believe it or not most religious texts share 90 percent common material. It's the 10 percent that is left over that causes all the problems. Not really that surprising though when you think that the differences between "born again" Christians and other denominations are largely based on three or four verses.
The common ground I see in the Bible and Qur'an has to do with eschatology - they are the perfect antithesis of one another. The Bible speaks of the Antichrist and false prophet, while Islam speaks of the Mehdi and Isa (prophet) - both reigning for the same period of time. The Bible's Antichrist is the Islamic Christ and the Islamic Antichrist is the Bible's Christ. The main difference then is...which one is the true Christ? THAT is the question for all denominations/religions. Who is God is the question. Allah has no son, while the Christian God has a Son. Jesus was not crucified, according to Islam; Jesus was crucified, according to the Bible. Sorry, but I don't see 'common' ground here - but again, a perfect antithesis.
Logically, then, they can't both be right. But again logically, there's no reason why they can't both be wrong. That would solve a lot of problems
HOW LONG it has been.
Good day to you!!
Hi dj -
Hope you are well? I've been lurking, reading a few hubs and forums and answering comments on mine, but have just been a bit too busy to be as involved as before.
Must try harder
Thank you. I have been (sort of) well. Bit flu-y, but getting over it.
I too, have not been active much, just checking in every so often.
I think the shine has dulled a bit off Hubpages for me of late.
I remember the "good old days" of which you were a part, but a majority of that "group" are no longer.
I'll provide a fuller answer in the morning but just a point to make... there are several Christian denominations that don't believe that Christ was resurrected or that he was the literal son of God. There are many more that don't believe in the concept of an "anti-Christ". Christians differ on these points in Christianity and they are using the same book.
Name even one Christian denomination that denies the resurrection of Christ or that He is the Son of God. Just one. Those who deny the concept of 'Antichrist', those who fit into your category of Christians who deny Jesus as the Son of God and deny His resurrection ARE the antichrist, according to 1 John 2:22 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." Allah is not a father, for he has no son. Islam denies the Father and the Son and any so-called Christian that does the same is also the antichrist. Likewise, if they don't believe Jesus was raised from the dead, they are not saved, according to Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." A liar is a pretender, what the Bible calls a hypocrite, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a son of the devil. They can call themselves 'Christians' all they want - to me that's worse that those who don't (i.e. Islam does not call themselves Christians).
JD I find it odd that you insist Allah is not God. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Pick up an Arabic bible and it will say Allah all the way through. Allah created the heavens and the Earth; there is no God but Allah, sounds like God to me.
So you base the idea that Allah is not God because the Muslim says Allah cannot beget a son. On that basis:
- The Catholic God is not God because he says you Earthlings are sinful scumbags, don't talk to me, talk to my sidekick Mary.
- Evangelical God is not God because he failed in his mission to take away the sins of the world, his will that all men be saved is a wishful pipedream as 98% of humanity is going to hell.
- The Calvinist God is not God because he delights in tormenting the wicked in the eternal fires of hell because their misery only brings joy to the blessed few predestined that he only intended to save in the first place.
- The TV evangelist God is not God because this God gives them aeroplanes and mansions to live in whilst they fleece the flock into poverty with made up stories.
- The Baptist God is not God because he doesn't fill anyone with the Holy Spirit.
- The Jehovah's Witness God is not God because everyone else sucks Satan's toes without even knowing it.
- The Mormon God, well he's just one of many that have been exalted.
Just because someone else has a different understanding of God it does not follow that they are following some other God. My colleagues see a different me to my family; am I two different people?
The Allah of the Qur'an is not the 'Allah' of the Bible, if we're just talking about an Arabic translation of the Holy Bible. 'God' is not a name, any more than 'man' is a name. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is named YHVH. The name of the god of Islam is Allah and has 99 names that are blasphemous, if applied to YHVH. There is one Truth, and just because the doctrines of men distort that Truth, does not mean the Truth is a lie. Gain that wisdom. I feel your interpretation of scripture is off, and likewise you feel the same about mine. That doesn't mean the Truth is a lie, either way. We do our best to interpret and understand, for that's what YHVH will judge.
Oh yes, JD, and you are one of those people that "know the truth!" Then I bet you contain that truth, constrict it, limit it to just your view of what is "true." Right? No room for anything beyond what you might have already considered?
Of have you an open mind that encompasses all potentials?
I'm the same as you, I would gather....we all hold to what we understand as 'truth', but again, what we think doesn't make it true or false. What we can agree on is...there is only one Truth.
This is the stone age thinking that is the basis of most wars and division in society. There is only one possible outcome when you claim to have the one truth, and that is confrontation.
Did I say I I I I claim to have the one Truth? I think you have a problem reading (interpreting). I said each holds to what they (I, you, him, her, them, they, anyone) feel is truth. Whatever I, you, him, her, them, they, anyone believes to be truth doesn't make it truth. What we should all agree on is that there is only one Truth. Yes, wars are fought between groups that claim they have the truth. Personally, I have not sought to kill anyone, or commit any of the atrocities both Catholicism and Islam are guilty of. Likewise, I can't see how ANYONE, in the name of Christ, would join either side for this very fact...let alone all the various denominations that claim to have 'the truth', while oppressing those who follow them. I seek the Truth, and so each person is on their own journey to find it, the ONE TRUTH. Please read this over and over again, if you don't understand my words.
YES you did.
You said clearly:-
What we can agree on is...there is only one Truth.
it is hard to deny what you wrote immediately above my post
No, she did not. She said Truth is absolute regardless of what we believe. She did not claim to hold the franchise.
Do you ever have anything positive or constructive to say? We live in times that require mutual respect. Since I have been here, everything that comes from your avatar is a black hole of negative energy.
Your little faces that you have to write code to stick on a post are the equivalent of a baboon sticking his big red butt in the face of another. What's up with that? Are you a sophisticated international business person or a naughty child?
ah - the pointless troll is back
Clearly unable to read or bother to actually look at what was written - just for you as you are clearly unable to scroll up even half a page:-
"I'm the same as you, I would gather....we all hold to what we understand as 'truth', but again, what we think doesn't make it true or false. What we can agree on is...there is only one Truth."
there you go - there is only one truth, now that wasn't hard was it ?
There is only one Truth. Does it mean I have it? I believe I am following the Truth. Do you believe you have it? Do you believe you follow that one Truth? Does Islam believe they follow that one Truth? Do Catholics believe they have the one Truth? That's my point. If I am wrong, if you are wrong, if Islam is wrong, if Catholicism is wrong, the quest is that we all find that one Truth. Do you understand what I'm saying?
What is a true fact - the holy Bible and the Qur'an are the antithesis of each other. If the President of the U.S.'s name is Hussein and the President of Iran's name is Hussein, we can know they are different Presidents by the Countries they govern and the laws they implement. One may be a father; the other may be single without kids. YHVH is not Allah nor vise versa, and based upon the characteristics of the Jesus Christ of the holy Bible and the Isa (Jesus) of Islam, even they are not the same. All you have to do is read both books and see that they are not the same.
Excuse me, why do you waste your breath on this dude? He's just playing games.
I understand clearly what you are saying. You are claiming that there is only one truth, and that you believe you are following it. and you believe that the 'other' truth is the antethisesis of yours.
Exactly the basis of the Islamic/christian conflict of the past and its revival by christians of today on the back of Bush and Cheney's money making war schemes.
You don't consider that both 'truths' may be wrong ?
I can definitely say there are those who call themselves 'Christian' that are wrong, for what they DO and BELIEVE is contrary to the holy Bible. The holy Bible IS the authority for Christians, just as the Qur'an, Hadiths and Surahs are for Muslims. Mormons follow their books; Jehovah's Witnesses follow their bible and Watchtower Society materials; Catholics follow their papal interpretations and authority, etc. I do not follow the 'Christians' who engage in martyring others that do not hold to their beliefs. Believe it or not, Calvin had his friend martyred for not following what he believed to be the truth! I will not ever convert to Islam, knowing they have no assurance of salvation, knowing how they use their children as jihadists and child brides, knowing how they abuse their women and murder anyone who leaves or does not convert. Wickedness is wickedness and in our human heart of hearts, we know lies, murder, stealing, etc. is wrong.
I can agree with this - and your summary applies to both sides of the bible quran debate in equal measure. You follow your bible that you believe is the only truth and so do they. Followers of the bible and the quran both have committed the most atrocious crimes and upheld the worst forms of govenment and most violent abuses against humanity.
Your own particular brand of intolerance is just that, just another brand.
Not to mention what they do to big mouth pandas!
I have known just the same stubborness regarding the "Truth" contained in the Koran. I agree with recommend1 that the insistence that either side, and not the other, knows the "Truth," this, the insistence, has been the cause of conflict and wars. The same attitude can split a family, surely.
I don't know the "Truth" about anything, really. I do make a best guess about some things, then find a way to get on with life until some further information crops up. Then I might be in a position to ascert, not best-guess over something.
But you cannot come up with an absolute statement about "Truth" when all you are going by is your belief system. If you want to get on with your neighbour without the resultant conflicts, you need to back down from your perceived "Truth" and allow difference of opinion. You will never finally prove a thing.
Truth is interesting isn't it.
The Chinese have a good way of dealing with this culturally, and with roots in Chinese philosophy, they say there are some things that we know or can deduce about the unknown, but past that point, it is best to say nothing - regardless of what one might personally believe. The scholars from the schools that were famous for their thinking about the unknown would travel hundreds of miles to discuss the subject and when the extent of what could be known or deduced was reached they would stop talking. Would be nice if those extremists who 'believe' something in the unknown would follow suit wouldn't it.
Your approach to communication is the basis of most wars.
Its Like comparing an Apple box with a box full of scorpions...
The Apple Box may have a few bad apples in it... But the Box of Scorpions only have a few that wont sting you... Or if they do their sting is not so bad.
What the Muslims do, They do According to their Scriptures...
But when a so called Christian Sect like the RC Catholics murdered their own.. they are/were doing it AGAINST the teachings of their own Scriptures. (see book "the trail of blood" by JM Carrol, its a free read online)
Understand? Big Difference: One is considered Normal for that religion... the other is considered a Cult.
Jesus said "by this shall all men know you are my disciples... if you have Love one for another"
You clearly do not know much about scripture - both sets of books say the same things in different ways including all the things you attribute to apples and scorpions.
Love one for another is the biggest joke of all in this context
Oh yes... I understand completely. You have taken the most publicized and sensational media propaganda and internalized it completely. It's easy to do since organized Christianity is largely based on the "only way to God is through Jesus" mindset. That in combination with political rhetoric has insured that the masses have no need to actually understand another religion but can happily go on hating another group and feel perfectly justified. That way we can completely dehumanize an entire ethnic group so we don't feel so guilty about invading their country and bombing the hell out of their citizens. Oh but how does it piss us off when they hate us for it and strike back.
But you lack the ability to even begin to imagine their side of the whole situation... as I'm sure many of the Jihadists lack the ability to see the other side.
And while we are talking about Jihad... what is truly hilarious is how similar it truly is to the Christian concept of "conversion" and "witnessing". It is also strikingly similar to what America has been doing to other countries for years. We have been trying to make other countries like us by force of arms. We don't like what another country is doing because it is different than us so we try to force them to adopt our morals.
In truth the major difference between what the Qu'ran and the Bible actually say about how to achieve salvation is that Christians have to be "faith" to go to heaven. They don't actually have to do anything else. The Qu'ran says that you actually have to get off your ass and do good deeds and give to charity...
The Muslim faith also believes you have to go straight to God for salvation while Christianity says you have to go through a middleman.
None of those things you quoted are Christian, Mormons are not... by 170 years of their own claims they are not connected to the rest of Christianity.
Catholics only Pirated the name.
True Christianity is Following Christ. It is not a building... and certainly not the following of Human leaders like Wacko David Karesh (Cult) or any of the others you referred to.
Christians have never Bombed an abortion Clinic. But a few Nut Cases have.
On the Contrary.. Followers of Muhammed even have thier Own founder to look to for an example of Pedophilia.. Their own Mulahs teach the Gross human rights abuses I quoted you...
And the Circumcision of women is the cutting off of the Clitoris.. at Puberty or later... certainly not the same as a male child being circumcised at infancy wich is done at the choice of the parents and does not harm the Child for life...
Get a Clue Lady
This is actually quite funny. Christians who bomb clinics, picket funerals, or have non orthodox ideas are not Christians. Muslims who plant bombs, and have bizarre ideas about beards are Muslims.
From the Muslim view, Christians who bomb clinics,....etc are Christians. Muslims who plant bombs and who have bizarre ideas about beards are not true Muslims.
Both sides look at the embarrassing sects of their own and claim they are not true believers but say the embarrassing sects of the other are.
Tell me Mr. Maranatha, have you ever met a Muslim? Ever had a coffee with one? Talked about life and beliefs with one?
The Islamic fast is meant to allow them to feel closer to being poor etc.. However most do not treat it as it should be treated. They have a huge banquet when the fast is finished each day, often eating several times more than they would otherwise eat, this is hardly my definition of a fast. Most of the people I know put on weight during Ramadan!
Also most of the Saudis I know will still have a crafty fag (that's a cigarette in case you don't understand UK slang!) and even a drink during the day during Ramadan. They are just people!
But then shall we look at Christmas and how that is treated compared to what it should be?
However on the good side you will see many families out feeding the poor and even giving gifts and money to people less well off than themselves. While we tend to vilify every Muslim we should realise that they are just people, some are very pious and kind and others are quite frankly A-Holes much like many Christians and atheists that I know.
That's all true, in Qatar and UAE too. Everywhere in fact. Except I'm not sure about 'most' in your first paragraph. To me it seems about 50:50 between absolute observance and relative observance. Nevertheless, the whole feel of the country is noticeably different in Ramadan from the rest of the year.
My experience of Muslim countries is that they are on balance nice enough people with deep faith and live their lives in a generally 'good' way - they of course have their other sides but they are generally safe to be around as a guest.
My experience of Libyan Muslims was that they were pretty nominal just like Church of England Christians. They didn't take part in the daily prayer during working hours and never talked about attending mosque. Perhaps that was something to do with working on a military base though, they having other duties. They did apply themselves to Ramadan though but were understanding of us Westerners. I did get away with eating a sticky currant bun whilst walking between an office and a hanger.
There were other cultural differences to other stereotyped Islamic nations. Women could drive on their own without chaperones; in central Tripoli some women had western dress; and Libyan men we're almost exclusively clean shaven. Apparently in Libyan culture men with beards are liars and not to be trusted, except for imams who are men of God.
They sound like nice civilised people - I wonder why the UK and France took it on themselves to bomb the crap out of it and turn it into a set of warring tribes again.
The same reason America bombed the crap out of Iraq and why nobody will bomb the crap out of Syria - Oil.
If you have no religion, why worry about it? Your view of Christianity is not reality based. You are fabricating an adversary. It is like Don Quixote jousting with wind mills.
Of course we all know you are just setting a trap for the uninitiated, unsuspecting and immature. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same ol' same ol' around here?
I understand British humor. It's anal.
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If so, what is the justification for it?
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