jump to last post 1-39 of 39 discussions (130 posts)

The church that made God puke

  1. r-o-y profile image61
    r-o-yposted 4 years ago

    God said the of today church is lukewarm and not hot or cold, and that this church is the worst in the history of the church. What is it about this church age would up-set God's stomach so bad?

    1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
      AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You just answered your own question smile Lukewarm. Half-committed. They strut around acting so holy and really just treat people like crap. Every single church I've been to. every single one.

      1. a49eracct profile image62
        a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I have to disagree. I have found a diamond in the rough.

        1. AshtonFirefly profile image81
          AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm glad you found a church that was wonderful...they're very hard to find.

          1. a49eracct profile image62
            a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you're interested they broadcast online. www.mecklenburg.org

    2. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually it was a letter to the Laodicean church of the 1st century. To say God is talking to the 21st century Church is a matter or personal interpretation.

      1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
        Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Disappearinghead, Scripture said that Bible is not for personal interpretation.
        Love yea all.

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If the Bible is not open to interpretation, then DH is correct. Right?

      2. jacharless profile image76
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1   -next thread!

        1. tirelesstraveler profile image88
          tirelesstravelerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          True it is a stretch to say the 21 century church, specifically, can be lumped with the Laodian Church. Still there is application to religious people in all time.

      3. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
        Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        r.o.y
        We were not calling to be critics of churches. Many did not found good churches since they did not look hard enough. We should go away from computers and go to churches to teach them how to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. We will look not at people but on Jesus. It will refresh you and rest.
        Please take my agape love to them from me.

        1. a49eracct profile image62
          a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Um...when did he say that? I'm not saying the churches of this day are anything worth raving about, but...not sure where you got the idea that God was so upset about it.

      4. knolyourself profile image59
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

        A church is an idol. God is natural reality.

      5. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        You’ll partly right that I just answered my own question, but what does it truly mean to be half-committed? I like details, to just say half committed dosen’t really give us much to go on [and I agree with your answer] but it can be taken to mean a lot of different things to different people. I personally believe it to mean something far more important. I believe it means the defilement of the Temple of God, by inviting Satan into God’s Holy Temple and Helping Satan to spread his unholy doctrine while he convinces the Bride of Christ to just be silent for the sake of peace in the church. I think it not only speaks of half-committed Christians but cowardly Christians who the Lord says shall not enter the kingdom of heaven, He says that the cowardly and unbeliever shall have no part in His kingdom. So I think it is of utmost importance to find out just what it is that would make a church that once produce such men of courage as St. Paul and Martin Luther to suddenly become so cowardly, what is the force driving this evil? The simple answer is the devil, but what methods is he employing to silence this once powerful witness of God on earth?

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think that Jesus Christ was the last TRUE witness to God
          The deciples wern't witnessing of God; they were witnesses that ALL of prophesy concerning the Messiah had been fulfilled except for his second coming, and they preached that this would happen in "That" generation" though no one knew the day or hour.

          Martin Luther was a great man for denouncing "SOME" of the false teachings of the church; though he hardly scratched the surface.

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            According to Jesus they were witnesses to God. God was in Jesus, when Jesus spoke it was God and he says to the disciples this was so and how can they question not knowing or seeing the father or something like that. So it could be said they witnessed God in flesh form.

      6. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago

        God puked? Now there's an interesting thought. What does God eat? What would his puke look like? Why has religion never answered this question?

      7. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Vladimir, you are proving my point, Satan and his people says do not make waves, do not call attention to the wrong that’s committed in your Father’s house, that wasn’t Jesus or the disciple reaction when they found corruption in their father’s house. They stood up to those who were corrupting their Father’s Holy Temple, they stood as brave warriors for the Lord and by their actions the Bride of Christ was a pure virgin, meaning the true church remain to true to bible teaching, if you were left to guard and to protect your earthly father’s estate and was told you take care of his children until he returns, and to be careful of the raging wolves would you just leave and abandon your father other children? The Lord said to feed My sheet, now how are you going to protect and feed the sheep that the Lord put in your charge it you just leave and don’t expose the evil of that church that is destroying the very sheep that God have put in your care? That my friend is the disobedient servant who abandons the sheep when the raging wolves come to destroy the children of God, that is why calls them cowards. Men have been burn alive to secure for us the freedom that we enjoy in the church in this country. To just run away and not stand and fight for your brothers is a cowardly act! I would think, of all people you would understand this principle!

        1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
          Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hello, r-o-y. I am not saying that you are not saying reality. I am not happy about many things. My point would be if I am going to be reformer I may have the war. But Lord said to others what is pertinent to us we will not repeat what they did. The same time He instructed us to be positive, build (edify) brothers, and preach good news. I use to meditate the same way as you do and got the ulcers, Ha. Not really, I am healthy. But I got heartburn.  I think that the best way is to start pray for them. Also other scripture say: If my people (not them –religious) but us should humble ourselves and pray God will heal our land (2. Chron 7:14). Jesus did not say fight with them or condemn them. We must fix our attitude. Now I am practicing righteousness. I started pray for those Christians who do not like me or I do not like them. Then I go and say: peace, I am Christian. So I make the peace. Then I have open door to their hearts. I left smiley faces. We do not have to repeat negatives Jesus had to. It was inevitable also for record. Then He said: do not judge. Judging is very common sin.
          Love you all.

          1. drbillfannin profile image62
            drbillfanninposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            @Vladimir. Actually, church leaders do have the right to judge members, and they are commanded to do just that. However, if a person confesses their transgressions, the church must forgive them, but until they confess and STOP their sinful behavior, neither the church nor God has any obligation to forgive them. Church members are held to a different standard than non-believers. It is east to extract verses to support our beliefs, but if we read the entire Bible and look at the meaning behind the words, we find that God holds church members to a different standard. Go and sin no more.

        2. drbillfannin profile image62
          drbillfanninposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible is very clear. We are supposed to keep corruption and sinners out of the church. When church members willing commit sins in public, the general population places blame on the whole church. Even non-believers expect the churches to hold true to the Bible. It's amazing to me that non-believers know more about the Bible than church members do. Our charge is to report sinful behavior to the church leaders who are then to confront the sinning member. If the member continues to commit the same offence, he/she is to be banned from the church. That is Biblical! Jesus forgives sin and commands us to sin no more. The Bible states very clearly that once forgiven, always forgive, but sinning church members will be "held accountable" in the final judgement. My experience is that church members who sin pay in this life as well. They experience all sorts of trouble. God does not always help when trouble comes our way. A good father will forgive his children, but he will only help them out of trouble so many times, then they are own their own. God also holds the church accountable for not enforcing His will within the church. If church leaders allow the congregation to continually sin, how can we expect the non-believers to want to join? Many are right when they say they live better lives than the church members. Church leaders are focused on membership and revenues just like in the old days. They believe that holding true to God's word will decrease membership. They may be right, but better to have a few good members than a bunch of sinners who make everyone in the church look like hypocrites. I am not a member of any church. I refuse to join a bunch of hypocrites, and I know that I am not alone.

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            drbillfannin, you‘ll not alone, in my years of rebellion and disciplining there were many times I had to sit through church servers just to get a meal, in my life time I must have been to maybe a hundred different church and denominations, beside the things you brought out [which is all true] one of thing that got me was something they call slain in the spirit. Now I took a close up look at this one, this is where the so-called man of God either blows on the person or just lays his hand on the person and that person passes out and on the floor as if they had no power to move. I’ve seen them go down, but take a quick glance behind them to make sure that the person that is supposed to catch them are in position to do his job. Now there was one church and everybody knew that if you didn’t go down after the second push, you were going to need a telescope to locate the food on that plate after serves because you are not with the program. This is just one many things got that me sick of this end-time church I like you don’t belong to any church at this point, now I’m not saying that I will never join one in the future, but the prospect looks very dim right now!

      8. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

        Rev 3:15  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

        Rev 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
        Look up the definition of the word “spue” now the are a few different spillingds of the word.

      9. knolyourself profile image59
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

        Maybe you should take it up with the Laodiceans.

      10. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Emile, if you knew and understood scripture you would understand that scripture states that it is in Him that move and have our being! The puking that I’m speaking of vomiting out of His being those Christians He said was in His being!

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So, he eats Christians?  Am I the only one who finds that disturbing?

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            you and these weak one liners! if that's the best you can come up with I think I'm wasting my time with you, because you have nothing to offer to this discussion!

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What discussion? DH pegged it. So, attempting to attribute meaning past the original intent is simply you making it up as you go.

              Which leads me to wonder, who really has the weak one liners? You, or me? Or both? (I vote for both smile)

      11. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago

        It is a popular pastime to brand sections of the Church as Laodiceans. It's an easy charge to make for those who think they are "on fire for God", "after Jesus heart', or God's only true dedicated followers. The other first century Churches had been crticised too, but you don't hear Christians calling others the Sardis Church do you. The Laodicean accusation fits nicely when applied to those Christians who don't see the World the same way.

      12. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        r-o-y 4 minutes ago:


        right, and the reason that all this is taking place in the temple of God is that no one will stand up  and expose the evils of these doings, because they are afriad of what's happening in this forum, you know the work you are doing to kleep them silent, but you will never silence me!

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Are you talking about the temple of God, the body or the man made churches believed to be the temple of God? Depending on what you mean by temple of God, standing up to expose evil could mean an all together different thing?

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            pennyofheaven, I’m referring to all two of three temples, I know the true Temple of God is in heaven, but the church that men build is a house of the worship of that God. Even though it’s built by man’s hands it houses the “Temples” of God on earth, which is mankind and since it houses these human temples that comes together in the worship to the God of this Temple and is dedicated to that God, I don’t’ see how it would be wrong to called it the temple of God provided true worship is practice there. People of God need a place to come together, if it’s cold and raining outside or if it’s a hundred degrees out shed than I don’t think God would have a problem with us seeking comfort from the storm in a man-made structure.

            So if I understand your question, you are asking what temple is being corrupted, first it is in the church house that man built where the corruption began, it is here most people hear these false doctrine. Therefore that temple is corrupted, now once that temple is corrupted it passed on the corruption to the temples of God on earth [mankind] so both temples are corrupted, the only one that is not corrupted is The Temple in Heaven!

            If the gathering place of learning and worship is corrupted and that teaching is passed on the individuals than both temples [the church and its congregation] is corrupt. Both temples are corrupt!

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Makes sense to me.

      13. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        You admit that these things are taking place in the church, not its alright for you to bring these things to the open, but when i bring these samethings out i'm the badest person in the world. then just what does that mahe you from admitting that what i'm saying is true?

      14. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        as far as being on fire for God i will let God handle that, but so far you and your infiltrator have not been able to silence me! you judge the results!

      15. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        and why if it just someone that is dilussional, why are you trying so hard to discrit Him!

      16. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        if the church is as bad as you and i agree, than why would you be so up-set when we both agree that it is full of corruption? first you say that this church is used by every self appoined preacher to make themselves feel important. but i ask you why is it so important for you to do the samething i'm doing? so you seem to be using it for the same purpose that you are charging me with!

      17. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        Michael-Milec

        r.o.y. 
                To ALL who hunger and thirst for righteousness , greetings .

        Some introductory phrases at the top of this forum do come from the Book of Revelation. The Book  was written at a time when the churches of Asia Minor were undergoing  persecution and difficulty.

        At that time was not in  existence any so called " Christian church".
        The followers  of the Lord Jesus Anointed One--the  b e l I e v e r s  were part of the "real" movement of the Holy Spirit operating in the supernatural power with signs following....
        At the very time of writing the Lord Jesus "spoke " to their reality... The churches do not exist anymore.

        It is becoming common that anyone is saying whatever chooses on the Hubpages, often a fiction as this :   " God said the of today church is lukewarm ..."
        He didn't !!
        Everything  what is today labeled as "church  " is not  'THE BODY OF CHRIST'.

        The Lord Jesus Christ is Holy. His BODY IS HOLY. He is the "HEAD OF THE BODY " ...thus whatever is not HOLY is not a part of His Body, regardless who claimes to be otherwise .

        Matter of fact, in many of differently organized and named " church" organization the Most High God has His Own children , - those are the members  of the "SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST"-- and they are known by their fruit.

        1. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I know of that teaching that you are referring to and where it comes from, that is the Catholic Churches teaching who have always taught that this is in the past to keep the attention off them which history and the bible have proven to be the beast [the anti-Christ] of Revelation. That teaching says that the entire book of Revelation happened in the past, which have been debunked again and again. So I’m not going to go into all of that anyone who wants to prove this to themselves can search the internet, it’s all over the place. So if that book is in the past, the second coming of Jesus Christ must be in the also past because it is in that same book that claims that everything that happened in the past. It starts in the past with the Catholic Church’s persecution of the Christian, but it doesn’t stop there. It shows where the church is freed from the bondage of the Pope and how the church returns to the Pope and Rome once this anti- Christ fatal head wound his healed. That fatal head wound did not take place until the 1700th century when France entered the Vatican and dragged the Pope out in chains. Now it would take hundreds of year for that fatal head wound to heal bring us to present day when we are told what signs to look for in identifying this being. That is a Catholic teaching to throw people off their tracks while the Roman Empire is restored as the bible prophesied.

      18. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        r-o-y

        Are you sure that you've read my writing ?
        You're talking unrelated phrases to what has been said by Michael Milec, and he really doesn't appreciated to be quoted for things which are not part of his vocabulary.

        1. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Will you tell Michael for me if I misquoted him he have my deepest apology, I have been at this since 5.00 am central time maybe my eyes played a trick on me telling me that they needs rest. I truly apologize! Will you make sure Michael gets this message?

          Thank you

      19. CMCastro profile image87
        CMCastroposted 4 years ago

        God has no infirmity in Himself, He is Perfect. Although we here on earth form churches, The Almighty Lord does not react in human nature to what we do in our own free will. There is a model church written in scripture, but we must humble ourselves, ask the Lord for forgiveness of all sins, seen and unseen, make a conscious decision to accept His Son Jesus Christ in our lives in order to qualify in the church body that God wants. And that Church has no walls, no limits and stands firm in His Word by putting the Word of God into action. "Faith without works is dead."

        1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
          Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          & CMCastro. I do like your writing above. But I want to ask meaning of last sentence: "Faith without works is dead." Thanks.

          1. a49eracct profile image62
            a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Your works are the evidence of your faith. Whatever you believe it still applies. Without proof our words mean nothing. Think about Jesus- he said he walked with God and came to save us. His words would have meant nothing had he not died on the cross for us. Does this make sense? I'll explain it a different way if it doesn't.

          2. CMCastro profile image87
            CMCastroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My reply to Vladimir Uhri:   Faith is summed up in the letter St.Paul wrote to the Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 1:
            " Now Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." 
            To have faith in God and all that is about Him is to rely on Him. We must trust in our Father God for His Word is truth. In order to demonstrate our faith is that we must be like Him who has taught us, that is be like Jesus Christ. We can study the Word, but we must put it into action. That is what it means, to put faith into works.             In the Letter that James wrote in the new testament, he stated in Chapter 2, verses 14- 17: " What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can that faith save him? And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food, and one of you tells them, ' go in peace, be warm and filled'; and yet you didn't give them the things the body needs, what good is it? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself."   And then, verse 26 states, " For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead."
            The New Testament of the Bible is full of so many answers to your questions about the truth about how to prepare for God's Kingdom. Start with the Gospel of Matthew and you will understand Jesus Christ's purpose for the new earth and the new heaven.

      20. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        r-o-y
                 About your remark : " If I misquoted him(Michael) he has my deepest apology. " Yes, misquoting is being done, -- the apology accepted.
                 Following explanation is being done for  the sake of all respected readers .
        Since the subject itself is not based on solid  scriptural foundation,-- the information provided in Michael's original comment , sustain.  ( Presented  hear earlier)
        You  r-o-y  are saying  that  you " know of that teaching I am referring to and that it comes from..." ( so on) ; that is probability  that you know what are you talking about , however, nothing of that is found in my contributed comment...
        As far as the historical placement of the Book  of Revelatin, nothing has been mantioned in my  comment.
        Actually, the Book of Revelatin has my highest respect since my early youth when became part of my living; following part of it :" ...  to everyone  who hears the words of the prophecy of this book : if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book ; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which have been described in this book." ( Rev.22: 18-19)

        Finally,the conclusion of  Michael's comments gives an answer to the believers-- those of the "spiritual body of Christ "--- t h e y are known by their fruit : " (The Lord Jesus saying)  ' I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH IN ME  will do what I have been doing" (John 14:12) , also : " these signs will accompany those  who BELIEVE : IN MY NAME they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes with their hands ; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all ; they will place their hands on SICK people , and they will get well . " ( Mark 16: 17-18)
        Hallelu-YAH

        1. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Michael, you are 100% correct, as I said  before by time I posted that last statement I had been commenting for about fifteen hour straight, the old eyes started  kicking-out on me by that point, but I tried to put up a good front, but old eyes was having none of THAT!. What actually happened was I was responding to another commenter and I placed my response in the wrong place. I can understand you needing to make it perfectly that you are not the one! Again, I apologize, no statement you’ve made far can I find any fault in I agree with everything you said in your comment.

      21. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape” [1 Th 5:2-3]
        Notice here when it is that the day of the Lord takes place, its after peace have been found, now I ask you, why would it make the Prince of Peace so angry that He will come and destroy the world when His people have found the peace that they have so longed for? It seems that this peace that the world has achieved is what triggers the beginning of the end to this world.
        There is a reason that the Lord confused the language of those building The Towel of Babylon and told them spread out in the earth. He separated them for a reason, in the whole world uniting under this very first attempt at a One-World Government it would also have to include The One-World Religion that this government indorses and forces its citizen to worship under. All religions united under its religious leader! This is the danger of the early attempt at the united states of the world! Once that one and only government is corrupted there is no one to combat it, the whole world is corrupted.
        In the history of the world when some dictator tried to force his religion on the world God has always had a mighty force to fight to keep his doctrine pure and the people were free to worship the God of this choice. The two most recent examples of this is the Catholic Church and Islam, the Catholic Church has caused the destruction of hundreds of millions of live with its force religion, now this didn’t happen thousands of years ago, this fairly reason history. But God had men to stand against this evil force and separated themselves from Mystery Babylon, He says His people are to be separated from not united with this beastly religion.

        The next one is the very one that we are witnessing today, Islam is using its great riches to finance a war to force all mankind worship its god Allah. Now what we are witnessing today is the last stand against forced religion. These religious wars are a must for two reasons, first the Lord demanded that His people separate themselves from all religion that serves any god other than Jehovah, and most of the time means war of some sort. The other reason is that these wars are designed to get people so sick and tired of war that they will accept peace at any cost; this is the peace that The Prince of Peace despises and will bring on the destruction of this world. The Lord said to His few faithful followers, “My peace I give to you, not the peace that the world gives” the peace that the Christians are now beginning to accept is this peace at any cost that the world offers, the peace that angered the Lord so much it what brings on the destruction of this world because the world and His people have returned to finishing the construction of The Great Towel of Babylon!

        It seems that the great warriors of the Lord of the past went to the burning flames, were fed to the hundred lions, tortured in chambers of horror, and crucified up-side down, all for nothing!

        Now this Church is not asked to get on a battle field and fight with guns, because God have others to do that, all they are asked to do is stand and declare what thus said the Lord and not allow false doctrines in for the sake of the peace that the world offers, the peace that the Prince of Peace DESPISES!

        What a weak and cowardly church that claims to be warriors for CHRIST!

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey roy.  If you believe in that stuff, you might want to take a hard look at the system the Christians have pushed on the world, after you finish with Islam.

          Capitalism permeates most every culture, on some level.  All religious, and all non religious aspire to be part of that system. Everyone, the world over, worships wealth.. so I would venture to say that would be the one world religion.

          The one world government would be those 'captains of industry'. Those who work together to manipulate policy within the governments of the world. They are your priests. The ones you look to  for the way to become like them. They hold the secrets to attain the wealth the world has been taught to crave.

          Who started both the religion and the government for this entire way of life? The West. Who has been working to bring the world into this religion? The West. The West is a result of the evolution of Christianity.

          So, look to Islam as the hand of Satan. But, they can't enslave your heart and soul. That has already been taken. Greed permeates the culture of the 'Warriors for Christ'. Greed appears to be the true messiah of the Christian religion.

      22. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Emile, if you really read my statement you should have seen that I mention the so-called Christianity of the Catholic Church before I mention Islam. Now what I don’t understand is why do you and many others seem to get so up-set when we all agree that the church of Christ is corrupt except for a faithful few, we agree on that, you and many others keep harping on something they we both agree on, so what is it that really gets you so up-set when this topic comes up? Is there really something else that is troubling you?

        Now I’m really looking forward to your response to really down to the bottom of this because I just don’t understand how there could be such controversy on something we both agree on. Now I may not response right away because I have a busy day ahead today, but I’m truly interested in getting to the bottom of this, because as it stands, it is not making a lot of sense.

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think attacking the Catholic Church is wrong. What caused the Protestants to break away? I see it as little more than a desire for power. Was it  a good thing? Of course it was on many counts. But the culture didn't really change, just some interpretation and some policy.

          My primary point in my reply was that if you recognize the need to point out evil, very rarely do you seek to find the evil in yourself. You glance about and rail against it in others. The problem is, we all have problems. If you asked me who represents the true spirit of Christ I'd encounter difficulty coming up with an example. Most of humanity falls short. There is no unified body of Christ. Every sect within Christianity has deviated to the point that the whole idea of what is a true Christian has been forgotten within organized religion.

          I don't understand how someone can complain so vocally, without recognizing the hypocrisy in the action.

          I could go on with an explanation, but you appear to be so involved with interpreting scripture that you wouldn't listen to me. I simply think Christianity has allowed themselves to wallow in interpretation, hoping to find the secret code that will help them identify the evil in the world around them so long that they will never want to understand the point.

          They have more faith in their ability to change others than they have in the hope of changing themselves. And the entire point of the gospels was examining the motivations within your own heart, not  the hearts of others. Threads such as this one have nothing to do with the message of Christ. Imo.

      23. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Emile, when is stating a fact of history an attack and wrong? I watch you constantly attack the Church of Christ and you don’t consider that an attack, but when someone brings out the evils of your sect of co-called Christianity it’s an attack. This is your basic means of trying to silencing the faithful few, you say don’t attack other religions while you let out a constant barrage of attack on the Church of Christ, reinterpret scripture, scripture that you have proven not to believe in in the first. When I bring out the evils of Christianity I include all denominations, you never see me trying to defend Evangelicals, I always say that they are just as corrupt as the Catholics and every other apostate branch of so-called Christianity. It is you who are singling out one sect and trying to hide the evils of that sect. 

        You talk of me glancing about and railing against other religions, but just go back your comments, they are all over hubpages, and you tell me if your accusations against me are not hypocritical?  Later on in your statement you states that every sect in Christianity have deviated from the truth, but when your sect is included you call that an attack? When you say that all sects have deviated from the truth, by your definition of attack, would that not also count as an attack on all sects of Christianity by you?
        Now lets stop playing games and get down to the real reason for YOUR attacks, I don’t think you give a hack about Christianity one way or the other, your real reason for attacking Christianity is to get to the few that are exposing you as an infiltrator of the body of Christ. You use the corruption in the church as a battling ramp to get to those who you are truly angry at, those who are informing the body of Christ of your real purpose and the tactics that the infiltrators are using to accomplish this diabolical scheme!  The Lord says His people perishes for a lack of knowledge, when you see the few publishing this knowledge that the Lord said is so important to the savior of His people this is what drives you to do all in your power to stop the body of Christ from receiving this knowledge that their very savior depend on.
        If you truly believe in the word of God why would you protect and spread a doctrine that is obviously and totally against the word of God. The Lord asked a question! “Why would a people seek unto the dead as to the living?” Now these statues of the dead that you encourage others to kneel down before and pray too. Now these idols can neither see or hear you or help you in anyway, this is pagan worship in any way you look at it, and yet you call other sects in so-called Christendom pagans. Now please don’t try to tell me that this act of kneeling down before idols is not an act of worship, the fact that you on you are knees before an idol, an act that is to be rendered only to God. The fact that you are talking to this idol and asking it to do something for you that you can’t do for yourself is actually praying to this idol, why would to an idol when you have direct access the Lord Himself if you are really His? 
        Before you begin to try to find evil in me you need to take a closer look at what it is that really drives you, and make sure that it is not evil that is driving you!

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First, I don’t have a sect. I am not a part of Christianity, theism or anything that might be considered a part of your religion. I don’t attempt to silence the faithful. You do understand that everyone has a right to speak? My speaking is not an attempt to silence you, any more than I see your posts as having the ability to silence me.



          You claim you reference the evils of Christianity. I don’t quite see it that way. I see you referencing the evils of anyone that doesn’t practice Christianity as you do.  And that is an important distinction.




          I don’t single out sects. I think all of you who insist you know the mind of a God either through direct revelation or from reading your ‘scriptures’ are equally deluding yourselves; simply because you are all attempting to give your opinions the weight of those of a deity. You cannot prove you are doing anything other than simply voicing personal opinions and pretending they are backed by anything other than ego.




          Since I am not affiliated with any religion, I think it might be a stretch to classify me as an infiltrator.   But roy, give it a break already.  There are no infiltrators, no diabolical schemes, no evil attempts to make more perish for a lack of knowledge.

          You call me a hypocrite. I am the first to proclaim myself a hypocrite. We all are, to some extent and I am constantly looking at myself and trying to see it when it exists. I have no problem accepting that many times others will see it in me before I see it in myself.  I don’t consider your comment an attack. It is a fact of life. Why do you keep stating that I see attack? I don’t see that you are attacking me and I am not attacking you.

          I am stating an opinion based on what I saw as the point of the gospels and what religion has done with it….by my perception.  What you are doing with it in this thread…by my perception.



          This portion of your rant doesn’t warrant rebuttal other than….say what? Because you aren’t listening in any way, shape or form. You simply want to stand on a soap box and rant about your idea of how you wish things were.

          1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
            Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hi, Emily R. I do like your points. You nicely said, it is better to look to mirror and find if we are hypocrites or not. I was Christian for long time. But negativism and sin orientated Christians, who were judging I became tired and backslide. I was in sin but pretended I am fine. But sin and curse resulting from sin is very expensive. When I heard positive teaching I became alive.  I repented and Lord leads me to faith and love. 
            The sin is more than breaking the Ten Commandment. Mainly it is failure of faith - unbelief. The faith determines our actions.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes.  A large chunk of Christianity is all about pretending they are perfect. Hiding flaws from themselves while lambasting others. And if you ever find a Christian who knows they've been found out... well, they get 'forgiven' and cleansed, and then start lying to themselves again.

              You've got the right approach, imo. Staying positive and honest with yourself are the only way to find peace emotionally.

      24. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Emile, you say you are no part of Christianity, that’s obvious! You ask do I understand that everyone has a right to free speech. Here my answered to that! I don’t only know that everyone have a right to free speech, I put by but on the line for you and all Americans which includes me to have a right to that free speech, I didn’t just set around and talk about free speech, I volunteered during the heat of battle during the Viet-Nam war to insure that you to have the right to that free speech. I was told the war was to combat communist aggression, to my thoughts were that my people were beaten down by the iron fist oppression for a long time and we had must work to do in my own country to insure all is treated equally, so we don’t need out-side powers destroying what we have fought so hard and so long for. Now it took courage for me to make that move on behave of my people and all people of these United States of America. I  grew up directly across the street from Glapion Funeral home, I watch almost daily as young Marines were brought home in caskets fighting for country that was still discriminating against them, so don’t try to used that free speech, speech on me.

        Now when I use that free speech that you value so mush, I according to you am ranting, but when you use that right doing the same thing I’m doing you call it your right to free speech!
        Now you say that I reference evil to anyone that doesn’t practice Christianity as I do, that’s where you are wrong, it’s not my way, but the way according to the bible, and that’s is the only way that counts. Now how do you become an authority on Christian living when it is you who said that you are no part of it? The Christian experience must be lived to understand it; you by your own admission you exclude yourself from being the authoritative figure that you try to so hard to present yourself as.
        Now let’s get back to the attacks, you just stated all that Christians who reads from my scripture are deluding themselves now you just the attached millions of Christians and you call that your right to free speech, just continuing what you have always done, when I do the same thing I’m ranting and do not have a right to your freedom of speech without being labeled as someone that’s not all there. You are preaching your religion of non-religion. Now my religion is based on a book that you and the entire world like you have been trying to destroy since the beginning of time! Now this book that I put all confidence in tell the end from the beginning, this book told us what the world look like in our times thousands of years ago. The book that I put all confidence in tells me to watch out for you and go on to tell me what to look for in identifying you so that you don’t deceive his people so that only ones that you do deceive are those who rather believe a lie than to hear the truth. Now the book that I put all confidence in told me that the world was round when your peeps preached that world was flat. The book that I put all confidence in taught that there were so many stars that no one could not count them, your peeps said there were only about a thousand or so, only the ones that they could see. The book that I put all confidence taught that that men would become so wise in their own understanding that they would create a military machine that would destroy all flesh on earth if He didn’t step in to stop it, now the biggest concern in this world is about these very weapons that could destroy all life on earth just as He said, now I must ask you who is deluded here those who follower the teaching of this book that tells the end from the beginning or from your book whatever that is. Maybe it’s time for us to look into your book of wisdom and compare it to my book of wisdom and see which one is left standing! By the way what is the book or source of you wisdom?

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First, let's get something straight. You have never defended my right to free speech. As you said, you fought in Vietnam. That was to protect corporate interests.

          And you volunteered to do that. I served in the military, so I have the right to tell you no one owes you anything for volunteering. I don't ask for it, and I'll be d#mned if I'll give it.

          Secondly, your opinion is not God. It never has been and never will be. The sooner you understand this incredibly simple point, the better for all involved and the sooner you will be able to identify a rant.

          I didn't say I had never been a Christian.  I just got tired of gagging at the holier than thou, look at me - look at me behavior patterns.

          You put your faith in your interpretation of a book. Learn to understand that fact and you will begin to understand that no two people will interpret it the same and you are no more right than the next person who steps onto the soap box.

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile, every person that put on a military uniform is defending your right to free speech, who it is, that is keeping the haters of American from destroying this country. Do have any idea just how many people you and all Americans dead? Who is that kept Japan from taking over the US, it was the people in the US military. Who was one of the main players in kept Hitler from taking over the world in World II; it was the men in uniform. If it wasn’t for the men in uniform there would be no United States of America with all of its freedom, who is it that protect your freedom of speech and all the other freedoms that you enjoy here. But it’s like I tell most of the guys coming back from fighting in the Middle East, everybody is patting you on the back and saying how much they appreciate your service to your country that love and appreciation is going to fade. As long as they feel the threat of someone coming to destroy them love the sacrifice and the men they make that ultimate, but as soon as the threat is gone they forget all about that sacrifice, some will even call you a fool for fighting in the place. The war is winding down the young men and women is no longer coming home in body bags in great numbers as before, Americans feel a bit safer now, so you will no longer be seen as the hero you are seen as now. But as soon as there is another thread to their butts, O how we love and appreciate our fighting men and women! But not all Americans feel that way, but many do and you are obviously one that does feel this way.
            The statement you made about the Viet-Nam war I suppose can be said just every war America has been involved in to some extent, even the American Revolutionary War, you show that you really don’t understand or care about the sacrifice of these courageous men and women that is coming home in body bags, while sit in the comfort of your home enjoying the very freedom that they gave their lives for. But this is what you do, this is who you are, now you have insulted the memory and sacrifice of every one of those men and women who came home in body bags who thought they were doing the right thing in standing in defense country and their children. Here is the real you:

            “And you volunteered to do that. I served in the military, so I have the right to tell you no one owes you anything for volunteering. I don't ask for it, and I'll be d#mned if I'll give it.”
            This is how you feel about the men and women who serve to make sure you can sleep safely at night! Now we have an all-volunteer military is this how you feel about these men and women who die to protect you the men and women who die to protect you from those who wanted to harm you, I never asked you to give me anything, there is nothing you got that I want! You dishonor the men and women who gave their lives who serve in the military who volunteered to serve! You sure don’t sound like an ex-military person to me! in order to get back to get back at me you dishonor the sacrifice and memory of these men and women who volunteered to serve!

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              As I said...I served and I don't think anyone owes me anything. I am not disrespecting anyone by saying this. I think everyone should serve. It was done out of a sense of duty for my country. Not because I expected to use it as a crutch for the rest of my life, as you appear to be trying to do.

              Sorry, but the argument that the boots on the ground over seas are protecting my freedom of speech is so laughably ignorant of the facts that I wouldn't know where to begin to attempt to educate you.

      25. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago

        I agree with you both to an extent.  Evil has crept into the religious institutions, both Christianity and Islam.  What I can't understand is why people do not recognize that Evil was the cornerstone of them both, put there by the will of the Lord himself.    330 years after John sees these visions of things which were, are and will be. 
            In 96 AD John sees a vision that a religious institution (at some time in HIS future) will be established that is corrupted YET sings; Holy, Holy, all power to the God of Abraham. How is it that this institution "might IF possible, fool even the very elect".   It will be teaching from actual scriptures which are acceptable to the very elect, yet something will be so very wrong.                                                                     It is written that the prophesy were given to prove the scriptures.                                                           SOooo,  prophesy will have to be misinterpreted in order for “IT” to keep its identity a secret.                       
               The most effective way to obscure our understanding of prophesy is to remove all understanding of the timeframes involved in them.  A day in prophesy is sometimes considered to represent a day; sometimes a day equals a year, A day is as a 1000 years to the Lord.

        In Daniel 9:23   and 9:25 - 26 It would seem that a day in prophesy = approx 1.3 of our years.  I think that I will believe Gabriel's proclamation ("skill and understanding") as given to Daniel.                          Everyone else can believe any persons interpretation that they choose to believe.
        It is my belief that organized religion are the two beasts that rose up out of the sea and up out of the earth the  (Rev. 13). And we should not automatically believe their interpretations.  What if Jesus meant exactly what he said?  "This Generation   shall not pass ....  but no one knows what day or hour"
               I think that  misinterpreting that statement is the cornerstone Christianity is built upon.  This is the fork in the road, and which way we choose to go determines how we understand everything else.

      26. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Jerami, I would like to make an observation on one of your statement:

        “The most effective way to obscure our understanding of prophesy is to remove all understanding of the timeframes involved in them.”

        I agree with a lot of what you said, except that you limited it to just the timeframe, its more to it than that, the world has become much more clever than to use just form of attack, any military strategist know that you can’t rely on just one line of attack, if that one plan fail you whole army is destroyed, Satan is too wise to fall for that limited line of attack. Satan is a great strategist; he fought against heaven he knows that one line of attack is not going to get the job done!

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The senerio which I proposed in the earlier statement is not THE answer.  I only suggest that it is but another avenue to investigate. The outer surface of the onion so-to-speak                             Even "IF" this  scenario I present is correct, it only opens up a doorway to many questions  that needs answers.
             Your analogy about military stratigests is correct to a point.  Another strategy to use would be similar to that which was done in WWII. The decoy; General Patton, cause the enemy to suppose that the battle is in a different arena than where you are planning the attack. 
          Allow the enemy to battle and win issues of little consequence, while you remain at home, in their kitchen eating their lunch.   Or something like that.

      27. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Jerami, I’ll go along with some of what you are saying, but I think you over simplified it, I don’t think that the world just from this side stop warring, there still covert operation going on and other lines of attacks. But I do get you point!

      28. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago

        You are correct that I am oversimplifing my point.  CAUSE  there are some things that a person has to figure out by themselves. BUT  you can point out some things, and attempt to nudge then in a particular direction  kinda like helping your children find Easter eggs.
        YA can't force anyone to see something that they can not imagine.

        You can write down on paper a truthful thing ...  and if it is misinterpreted long enough, there will become so many misguided interpretations of your statement of fact that eventually ...  the truth that your statement contained is no longer visable even when it is studied in its origional context.
        Preconcieved conclusions as to what we are about to read are so ingraned that we don't see what we are looking at.

      29. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        I never asked anything, I never said that anyone owe me anything, I explained that I volunteered out of a sense of duty, now that duty may not be very important to you but it meant everything to me. I made the conscience decision to go of my own free will, now you said that no one owes me anything, that’s where you are wrong. The US government must think they owe me something because they have given pension to live on, so they must think that they owe me something, I’m glad they don’t think like you because I would be in a terrible mess right now. I made a commitment to them and followed through on my commitment, they made a commitment to me and have followed through on their commitment, this is all that I’m owed and all that I expect.

        Again you show your lack of knowledge of what it takes to defend a country so let’s take a look at what you said that shows you it is your statement and argument that is so laughably ignorant and not mine:

        “Sorry, but the argument that the boots on the ground over seas are protecting my freedom of speech is so laughably ignorant of the facts that I wouldn't know where to begin to attempt to educate you.”

        Now I have an enemy, [and America has many enemies] I know that this enemy is plotting and scheming my demise, now I can’t wait until he breaks into my house before I starts to defend myself. If I have the means to hang out in his back yard and watch his plotting before he can make his way to my house where my wife and children is, and put them in danger. Since it is he out to destroy me I will have to let any collateral damage fall on his family, to do this I need to strike before he make it to my house, even before he leaves his back yard. If I wait for him to reach my house it may be too late to save my family form destruction. In order to be able to do this and stay one step ahead of my enemy I first will need to gather intelligence on his activities, to do this I may need to put boots on the ground in some cases, now when I put these boots on the ground I’m not sendind solders to fight I’m gathering information to keep up with his every movement that I can’t see form my house. I need this information to know how to strike to prevent him getting to my house and destroying my family, so some time it takes boots on the ground to keep my house and protected. You last thing you want is for the enemy to make to our shores and start the here, no lets fight in his country, and if that means putting troops on the ground, then so be it. You show don’t sound like a military person to me! Why do think that the US have not had to fight here and having our cities blown to bits like we see around the world, it’s because we take the fight to the enemy and do our best to not let the enemy bring the fight here, you don’t want to let the enemy make it here before we start to fight, this country would be hell survive in! Take the fight to the enemy to the enemy!

        It is your statement that is so laughably ignorant!

        1. pennyofheaven profile image81
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I have a question. Perhaps unrelated to the dialogue you and Emile are having?.... but... What does thou shalt not kill mean in your faith? Is there something more to that commandment that I do not know about?

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think it probably means thou shalt not kill anyone that looks and thinks exactly like you do. The rest of us are fair game.

            At least that's what the argument sounds like to me

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              haha

          2. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            pennyofheaven, that almost sounds like a trick question to me, but I’ll bite anyway. I think it means pre-meditated murder I don’t think it means to not defend oneself if threatened. I don’t think it mean that men should not go to war if the cause is just. It’s what Cann did; he took his brother’s life without just cause! It don’t mean will never kill another because God said if kills [murders] a man that man shall be killed by man. God instituted death sentence!

            1. pennyofheaven profile image81
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No it wasn't a trick question. The commandments came in after Cain though. Any war as I understand it means killing. Thou shalt not kill commandment does not seem to have an exception to the rule.  So I was wondering how followers of Christ or the bible can justify going to war or killing another person?

              1. r-o-y profile image61
                r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                pennyofheaven, there are a few things I think we must consider, Jehovah is warring God, now I know someone somewhere is going to try to take that statement and it to defame Jehovah. Jehovah is the God of armies, remember, Jehovah’s throne and His right to rule was attacked. That attack on that throne started in heaven and after the creation of man [a combatant in that war] that war against Jehovah continued on earth, that war never ended. Just as God has armies in heaven He has armies on earth, this war started in the spiritual realm and after the creation of man it spilled over into the physical realm. If God had not meant for man to fight in wars why He would instruct King David to build an army, that army killed many people. So there must be a deeper meaning to “thy shall not kill” now I must admit I never did an in-depth study on the subject because always understood it to mean pre-meditated murder and I still think that’s what it means. Now if a man’s house is attacked and that man doesn’t fight to protect his family that God put into his care and I don’t think God would be happy with that man. Would you respect a man like that? God said there is a time to kill:

                Ecc 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
                Ecc 3:2  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
                Ecc 3:3  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;


                That’s why I still think that command was for pre-meditated murder and killing without just cause. I think many times people including myself will read the words on paper and repeat the words without seeking the full meaning behind the words, I’ve come to find out that this just doesn’t work, we must ask for heaven’s light on any subject in His word or our imagination will get the better of us. It’s what we use to call the itty witty shitty committee that goes inside our heads, and we are guilty of this at some point in our ministry. We can’t take one verse of scripture and build a doctrine around it; we must compare that verse of scripture to other verses of scripture to come to a proper conclusion. We must not lift the verse out of its context; in other words, we must read the whole chapter of the book that the verse was taken from to get the whole story, and why it is that the statement was made in the first place.  If we don’t do that we will be like the Politian’s of both parties do, they will take a statement out of the middle of speech their opponent made and try to hide what was said before and after that statement which gives the statement a whole new twisted to say something that the original speaker never intended, it’s been lifted out of its context. Many other-wise smart people fall for this trick constantly! We don’t want to be guilty of that do we?

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  There's your first problem. You aren't attempting to live within the bounds of the desires of the God  who Jesus worshiped. You've not only bought into a bogus name, but a bogus understanding. smile

                  1. r-o-y profile image61
                    r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Emile, if you are addresing the statement I made I have no idea what it is you are talking about.

                    1. profile image0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Look it up. Separate it out. You know what the first syllable stands for. See what hovah means in Hebrew. Oddly, the vocal side of Christianity appears to follow a god that fits the definition.

                      1. r-o-y profile image61
                        r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        So now we result to riddles, that’s your information that you are using to prove your point, why should I look up information to prove your point, that’s your job. But now we are getting to the true reason behind your attacks on the faithful few, it is your hatred for Jehovah you can’t that name. Why did it take so long and so much probing to get you to this point, to admit that you hate Jehovah? If you hate Jehovah, you hate Jesus!

                2. pennyofheaven profile image81
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Here is what I don't get. What is the point of a commandment if it does not mean what it says? I find it very hard to believe that God ordered anyone to kill. It is more than likely the mind of the flesh deluding itself into thinking that that God ordered an army and ordered them to kill whomever. As if an all powerful God will need a mere mortal to do the killing. Historically many wars supposedly were in the name of God. Nowadays it doesn't seem to matter to those who go to war. Rarely do they use God as an excuse to go to war but almost always they can justify it in most cases.

                  Killing is killing in my view. Any one can use anything to justify why they kill. Big or small it will be a justification for them in their eyes. Does that automatically make it right? Of course not. Many are jailed because in their own minds they have full justification for doing what they do. Many kill because if the powers that be says they can, they do.

                  It saddens me that after generations and generations of killing we still have not learned and people still try to justify why it is necessary.

                  There is no justification whatsoever in my view for taking another life.

                  But then that's just me. I most probably will be waiting a very long time for killing to cease and world peace to come to the fore.

      30. Don Crowson profile image78
        Don Crowsonposted 4 years ago

        It is a church without passion for Christ and his techings.  W.B. Yeats expressed it in his poem "The Second Coming" that the evil would have nore pasion for their things than Christians have for the Lord.  Ithink that is obviopus in what is happening today.

      31. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        come on now, you got to give me more than this. show me were you got this from, who is Loki, when and where the name was mistranslated, and who are the ones making this claim. you can't just throw stuff out there like that and expect me to jump in that deep water like that because you say this is the case!

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Are you honestly saying;

          1. You don't know how to verify what hovah means in Hebrew.
          2. You don't know who Loki was supposed to be.
          3. You have never read anything on the controversy surrounding the word jehovah and how it first came into use.

          I find this difficult to believe roy. Are you having some fun with me here?

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile, I’m not saying of sort, I may know more about the controversy more than you do. But it’s not for to present your case! The Lord says I ‘m to be ready at a moment’s notice to give account of what I believe and why I believe what I believe to anyone who ask. I would think that anyone of any religion would be like-wise ready to give that same account to anyone who ask on something so important that their eternal destiny on. I’ve studied all major religions to some extent and come to realize that none come even close to competing with Christianity. There no other religious book that can stand even close to the bible in wisdom. No other religion can tell me when kingdom will rise and will fall. No other book described the rise of America and role it would play in the reformation. No other book describes the reformation like the bible long before the event took place. I did my homework I refuse to let anyone do my thinking for me. No, I would never do anything to just have fun with you not when it comes to  something as important as someone eternal destiny.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ok roy. You stand ready to give an account of what you believe.  That's nice.  Unfortunately I'm not posting beliefs at this point. Any hebrew dictionary will give you the info you need to verify my first statement. That is not a belief. That is a fact.

              I don't believe in Loki. I simply know what books on mythology say he was believed to be by some. That is not my belief, simply a fact.

              As to the jehovah controversy. You can tell me what you believe all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that the name you use, literally translated, means something along the lines of 'god is perverse'. It doesn't make it so, nor does it mean you see your god in this manner.
              It only means that is what you call him.

              1. r-o-y profile image61
                r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Emile’ you said you are not posting beliefs at time, but everything you’ve presented is based on your beliefs, you have a very poor way of presenting your case. Why is it so hard for you to present the facts of your case? You keep telling me to go find your information, you can’t even quote the statement from the source of your information and you call it fact. If I present something from the bible to you as fact I’m going to tell you the address of it in the bible, you want need to guest about it. You fail to do something as simple quoting your source.

                Again I asked you to explain who this Loki is, you tell me of some books on mythology says and believes by some. You stills tell me nothing about how you come to this knowledge that you claim as fact, you simply states that it’s a fact, no qualifying it in anyway whatsoever! Now I’m not even going to response to the rest of this garbage, I’m through with this circus; you have nothing you have presented the sorriest case that I’ve seen presented in my two years on hubpages! I’m through with this, again it just a waste of time trying to communicate you.

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok roy. Bye. But I have to tell you, the break down in communication is coming from your side. I understand your frustration, but I am not responsible for it. smile

                  Edit. Just so you know, there are few facts in the Bible. The things you call fact are nothing more than your belief. The inability to understand that is one of your primary obstacles to effective communication.

                  1. r-o-y profile image61
                    r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The more you post, the more you look bad because you show that is you who are the obstacles to effective communication. In effective communication one doesn’t just throw stuff in the air and call it fact, and when asked to give some kind of evidence of this statement of fact they draw a total blank. The little game you tried to play is so elementary, you want me to go and find the information you need to make your case and start your argument from that point. I keep telling you people, most of the games you are trying to play I created them! Now if you were to asked me to describe who Abraham was I’m not going to draw a total blank, I will give you some background information on him, I will be able to tell you where I got this information, now wither or not you except what I offered is up to you, but at lease didn’t draw a total blank! You need to be able to do at least that much to begin to be able to communication effectively.  You hate your creator JEHOVAH and you can’t even communicate why, you just hate Him because you have been told he is evil; this must have come from someone else because if it was from you wouldn’t such a problem stating your reason for this devilish hatred. It’s eating at you right now because your disciples saw you fall on your face and breakdown when this schoolyard game you were trying to play just didn’t work. You attack the Catholic Church and then when I being out there history [a proven fact] you say I’m attacking the Catholic, go back and read what you wrote, this is boarding on schizophrenia or, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you don’t even know what it is you are trying to say? The more you post the worst you look! I saw one of your statements in another forum, you have been so duped and longing for acceptance that you have let people convince you that two men with the same sex organs making love to each other is normal, and anyone who sees it differently is spreading hate. If someone caught a fifty year old man having sex with a five year old girl and that person exposes the file man, would you call him a hater? No you wouldn’t, because even if it wasn’t against the law it’s against decency, you know this, but you sold out to be accepted by the crowd and you are trying get Christians to except this unnatural act by preaching that they are haters because they refuse to be sucked in by your game of silencing. If they speak out against this evil, you label them haters, that’s what I mean by saying you are trying to silence them! Everything you stand for is corrupt! You will give an account in the judgment for your corruption and teaching other the ways of corruption!

                    1. profile image0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Hi roy. smile I'm going to offer a couple of pieces of advice and, please, view this as the constructive criticism it is intended to be and not as an attack. Paragraph separation and spell check. Without these, you conjure up an image of someone hunched over a keyboard and  so involved in typing frantically that the person has forgotten to address the need to properly dispose of his saliva.

                      What are you so angry about? I am not going to post links, or copy and paste information to support a simple statement of fact, so learn to google if you doubt me. And I wouldn't take your word on anything either.

                      It has become increasingly clear that you have no understanding of the meaning of anything written in the Bible, so I wouldn't ask you to give me your impression of Abraham. If I didn't already know, I'd look it up and come to my own conclusions.

                      And, please refrain from putting the words creator and jehovah in close proximity. You are embarrassing yourself.

                      I don't hate anything roy. I embrace life for what it is. Refusing to embrace reality makes no sense. On any front. For any philosophy.

                      I am truly sorry that you choose to project your anger in my direction but the bulk of your post is so ridiculously discombobulated and contains obvious falsehoods that to attempt to rebut it would be an exercise in futility. If you only want to create  fantasy scenarios in order to attack people,  please be advised I'm not going to respond in kind. smile

                      1. r-o-y profile image61
                        r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Now I was waiting for this, I do know about paragraph separation and I do have spell check and know how to use it. I knew that this coming when you tried to cleverly slip the word ignorant in one of your early post. The more you post the more you look bad! You are implying that I’m ignorant, now if I’m ignorant, if I’m so ignorant what does that says about you and your secular education when this ignoramus stand toe to toe with you and smash you and your education!  Now let’s take a look at the deception in you, the first thing you put up is this little smiling face to try to camouflage  your true intentions. There was a hit song back in the early 70’s that describe you and that little smiling face, it’s by a group that goes by the name of “The Undisputed Truth” the first verse of the song is “Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend, but smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurk within, can you dig it?” that’s you and that little smiling face you love to use. The more you post the more you look bad! Now your true intentions were to belittle me and hide behind this smiling face. The rest of what you said proves my case. Now the only reason you result to this dirty tactic is because you know that this ignoramus just screamed you and your education! No matter wither or not I use paragraph separation or not, you still understand what I’m writing otherwise it would not make you so up-set, other-wise you would consider it the ramblings of a throw off ignoramus that nobody takes seriously. The fact that you have stoop to this low tactic means that you take what this ignoramus writes very seriously, the more you post the more you look bad!

                        Now with all that mess you come up with in that first paragraph you still didn’t come up with anything to prove your point. Now believing that you were a big hit in exposing my ignorants you went on to show that even with your education you are not as smart as you think you are:

                        “What are tipi so angry about? I am not going to post links, or copy and paste, information to support a simple statement of fact, so learn to google if you doubt me. And I wouldn't take your word on anything either.”

                        Who asked you to poste links, or copy and paste to prove your case? The more you post the more you look bad! I want you to tell me in your own words how you came to the conclusion that JEHOVAH is evil, and all I ask is that you show me in understandable language where you got this knowledge from. I never cut and paste, and for an ignoramus I think and ben told by others that I do a pretty job of getting my point across. You can’t play games with an ex-gamer!  Now I not going to address the rest of your mess that you wrote because this is the heart of what you wrote and the major damage you were intending to accomplish. Not bad for an ignoramus right? CREATOR JEHOVAH, CREATOR JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH your creator! Now I still didn’t use paragraph separation and you can still understand what I wrote!

      32. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        r-o-y
                EmileR,
                What a mess !  The forum's topic indicated to be about "The church that God...."
                 A huge amiss. God isn't in need of a " voluntary " spokesperson  to express His involvement in the history of events...
        What's going on isn't about  his " church" anyway.
        Here are the  readers presented with a least to say " name callinng" not only  outsmarting one another, but even humiliating .
        Who is representing here the "Head of the church ?" in a facion that the "secular" world wouldlike to be part of??
        People, the history events indicate that this social system is comimg to its end... The BELIEVERS, are seriously trying to get the most if not all sinners into camp of the redeemed .

        The judgment day is coming like it or not, believe it or not, that's decision is made without anyone of people's approval...
        Here  are the words of warning :" But I tell you that men will have to give account on the DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken.
            For by your words you will be acquitted , and by your words you will be condemned." ( Mt.12:36-37)

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry Michael, but there are those within Christianity that have ben singing the day of judgment is coming tune for 2000 years. It hasn't.

          Has it ever occurred to you that your interpretation might be off?

          And your perception might be skewed somewhat. I don't see where anyone has been humiliated in my exchange with roy.

        2. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Michael, when you'll rifgt, your right, i should know better then to let it come to this point. i know better, thanks for your word of truth!

        3. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Micheal,  you say that God isn’t in need of a “voluntary”  spokesperson to express His involvement in the history of events. Will you please explain what you mean by that?

      33. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        First of all an olive branch would preach something as normal that the bible call an abomination, so you no olive branch. I still don’t see how you can call it laziness on my part because I refuse to make your case for you. As far as this argument goes it states that because there was no letter “J’ in the Hebrew language, therefore this translation must be wrong because it begins with a letter that doesn’t exist in the Hebrew language. Now if we are going to use this reasoning for that one word, we must use that same reasoning for every word in the bible that has the letter “J” in it. You must be consistence with this so we must throw out every word in the bible with this letter “J” in it. Now the letter “J” is not the only letter in the English language that is found in the bible that is not a part of the Hebrew language. Now if we continue with this reasoning we must find out all the other letters in the English that is not found in the Hebrew language and remove them also from the bible. In translating Hebrew to a more expressive language as Greek to an even more expressive language as English, more expressive lettering must be used. Languages in proves with the passage of time like anything else, let’s take the word juice since it has the letter “J” in it must we throw the word out because there’ no letter “J” in the Hebrew Language?

        What you did just cut and paste another’s opinion, you still haven’t given to you own reason form your heart why you believe JEHOVAH is evil. You admit that it can reason argued that parts of the name could mean something other than destruction, mischief or ruin.  This was translated to another Language, now if we translated a word from English to Japanese would you expect to find the same letters in that language that we have in the English, of Couse not, different letters and lettering would have to be used to express the same meaning. With you reasoning we must rewrite the bible because everything in it that doesn’t have letters that are not found in the Hebrew must be thrown as a mistranslation!  Now so far everything you have put up is cut and paste I still would like to hear from you in your own words why you think JEHOVAH is evil.

        Now I’ve expressed to you my felling on this subject and never cut or paste anything, this is what I’m trying to get from you.

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You argument makes no sense. We translate their word for the animal jaguar, for example into the word we use for the animal. A name exists in our language, that uses letters that may be unique to our language. Proper names are always treated differently, out consideration for the individual.  And we pronounce them the way the individual tells us to pronounce them, when we know them well enough to claim a relationship.

          And, if you consider the definition given in Strong's concordance to be someone else's opinion, and Wikipedia to be someone else's opinion, so be it.

          And there is no such god as jehovah. Just like loki doesn't exist. I've never said there was an evil god named jehovah. I said the name you use implies that.

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile, here’s my problem with that, of all the words and name that have been translated from Hebrew to Greek to English using that same system of letters I know of no controversy of like this one word. Now as far as Strong’s Concordance goes, I can find nowhere in this book where it states that it is infallible or the inspired word of God. What it is is simply book that a fallen man wrote with his opinions the fact that many people like this version does not make everything he says gospel. If it’s one thing I tress is that its these books, wither they are called New Translation, Interpreter Bible or this or that Concordance is book that fallen men have written. Now why would any Christian go to these imperfect works of man for their answers when the Lord says you have direct access to the Lord Himself for the answers to any question, to the one who have all the true answers?

            You know what I think; well I’m going tell you anyway, I don’t believe most people really believe what they teach, they just forming words with their mouths. On Monday they will tell you the word of God says “lean not on your on understanding” then on Tuesday they say scrap what I said yesterday, about leaning on God’s understanding, on this one we must only lean on our own understanding, but with a little help from some other fallen men who’s understanding who wrote some books we can get by without the Lord’s understanding.

            Every Concordance you place your faith in is someone’s opinion and not the Gospel truth! The Lord says I have direct access to Him, why would I need to go to fallen men for the answers when I have access to all knowledge,  teaching one thing and during another shows no faith! All I need is the King James Bible and direct access the throne of the Lord that way I know I want be deceived. I believe that I have that direct access, Do you!

            And please don’t get me started on Wikipedia who is always looking and begging for help from anybody to give to help them in there incomplete sections of their site, if there were ever information that is full of other people’s opinions its Wikipedia!

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I want to make sure I understand you. Is it your contention that, until the last 100 years, everyone that has ever translated a Bible is guided by the Holy Spirit? The insertion of the exact word Jehovah was done by the direction of the holy spirit, but we can't trust any modern translations?

              1. r-o-y profile image61
                r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I can’t say what everybody else is doing, I only stated what God said is the answer to all questions on biblical matters. I know where I get my answers and who it is that sent me. You can make fun or do what you want to do with it.  I don’t go to man for answers I was told that I was not to even think of what to say, that it will be given to me what to say when the time come. Now if I start listing to what man and his books say than I prove that I don’t believe what God says. If I believe what Gods says why I would even need to look to man and his books. Everyone I’ve talk to agree that none of these book are perfect, none of them. The problem is that everyone thinks that they can figure out what is perfect and what is not perfect in these imperfect works of fallen man. We can’t just talk of having faith in God, out actions much match our talk. If I can trust God in one thing I must be able to trust Him in all things. Now if one is sent of God, then he has no problem trusting in God to deliver his word through him without the aid of man’s book. Now if one is self-appointed then he can’t have that same confidence bscause he is not hearing from heaven, therefore he must rely on fallen man’s interpretation of the bible. I still can’t understand why anyone would go to the imperfect when they have direct access to the perfect, the only reason I can come up with is they are either self-appointed or Satan appointed, either way they will not hear from heaven! When God appoint someone there must be some manifestation of this appointment. You must have had a new-birth experiences and be able remember the exact moment of that new-birth experience, and other manifestations. Many teachers are self-appointed that’s why their teaching don’t fall in line with the word of God.

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm not sure what that answer had to do with the question, but I'm sure it made sense to you.

                  My problem with your use of the word jehovah, in a nutshell, is that if you worship the God of Abraham (which was first worshiped by the Jews) you aren't calling on the right name. According to the Jews. Why would God want His name changed?

                  The word jehovah wasn't invented until probably 1100 CE., by Christians. Are you saying the Holy Spirit moved man to include that name in your Bible? I'm curious as to your answer.

                  If so, when do you think the last translation authorized by God was completed?

                  1. r-o-y profile image61
                    r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    now you are jumping all over the place, you asked a question and i answered it. now you want to hurry away from this question you asked, let discuss that before we move no, we are finish here yet. we can't keep bounch all over the place when you decided you don't like the topic you brought up. do you believe that these books are imperfect works of man or are they perfect?

                    1. profile image0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      That wasn't the question roy. You made comments against modern interpretations. You claimed jehovah is the name of God. The word jehovah appeared in an interpretation of more ancient texts.

                      You may not have understood the reason for the question, maybe I was going about it in a somewhat round about fashion. If so, I apologize.  But, the main reason I asked those questions was because the word jehovah appeared in a translation. Do you think the appearance of that name was caused by God, or faulty interpretation?

                      1. r-o-y profile image61
                        r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Ok, let’s start with translations period, did you know that it was the translators and interpretations by teachers of law that corrupted scripture and many Jews to not recognize the Lord the first time he appeared. These people put their faith in these interpreter of the Law and was led astray, this is the same thing that is happening today The New translation are nothing more than new interpretation of the word. Take for instance The NIV bible they have remove the name of Jesus from some very key locations where it identify Jesus as the as the Christ that we are to look for His return, did you know that?

                      2. r-o-y profile image61
                        r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Let’s compare the King James bible to the new NIV bible and see how some of these changes effect the long standing doctrine of the bible, the trick is make these change over a long period of time, with each new generation there is a new bible with a slowly changing doctrine:
                        first in The King James Version, then in The “New” International version:
                        “Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angel do behold the face of My Father which is in heaven. For the son of man is come to save that which is lost.
                        "How think ye? If a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? The king James Bible." [Matt 18:10-12].
                        Now lets take a look at the same verses of scripture in The New International Version:
                        “see that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of My Father in heaven. What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hill and go look for the one that wondered off?" The NIV Bible. [Matt 18:10 and 12].
                        The NIV Bible have totally remove verse 11, the verse the which identify Jesus as the savior of mankind. If they do believe that Jesus is the savior why would they remove verse 11? The same reason they had for removing verse 7 from 1 John 5. To deceive, if it was an oversight, they have had plenty of time to correct it. There is no correction coming, it stands just the way want it to, the way they planed it. To them Jesus is not the savior of the world, to them Lucifer is. They told you in Isaiah 14:12 that Jesus had fallen from heaven and was cut down to the grown, and did weaken the nations. So it’s not hard to see why they would erase verse 11 from Matt chapter 18. Just because the word “bible” is written on the cover, doesn’t mean it’s the Word of God. Check out it’s contents closely! Do not trust modern translations of the bible, get back to the King James Version. It could mean the difference between worshipping God, and worshiping Satan. Don’t be deceived!
                        Having removed the Name of Jesus as the name that saves in Matthews chapter 18, the they now move to Matthews chapter 23 and do the same thing. But this time they are a little more subtle with their deception. In stead of removing the whole verse, they just remove Christ from the verse. They can’t keep removing whole verses from the same book, that would become too obvious. People will really began to notice it. So they have to do it in increments. Now let’s see what they have done in the 23rd chapter of Matthews. Again we will start with the King James version of the bible:
                        “But be not ye called rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and ye are all brothers. King James Version." [Matt:23:8].
                        Now the NIV version of the same verse:
                        “But you not to be called ’Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. NIV Version. [Matt 23:8].
                        In the King James version of Matt :23:8, the Master is clearly identified as Christ, there is no mistaking who the Master is. In the NIV version, there is no mention of Christ as the Master, there is no mention of the identity of the Master.

                        Now this is just a sampling, there are thousands of changes like the throughout NIV and most all New Translation Bibles, with each new translation more and more changes are taking, now these are small changes these are in some very key location.

      34. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        EmileR,
                   Thank you for your kind words.
                    My statement won't get any further involvement, in a subject of
                    having little of meaning.

                    Oh, this might provide an satisfactory answer to those who believe the Word,
                    as well to those who want to believe it in the future:
                    2. Peter 3:8-9 : " My friends, you must not ignore this fact : with the Lord one
                    day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
                    It is not that the Lord is slow to fulfill his promise, as people think.
                    He is being patient WITH YOU and does not want
                    anyone to be lost.
                    HE WANTS EVERYONE  TO COME TO REPENTANCE .
                     
                      <> <> <>

        r-o-y
               Thank you for an acknowledgement .
                To what has been said, no extra explanation is being added
                 on my part .

        1. r-o-y profile image61
          r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Mickeal, the only problem I have with what you’ve said thus far is this it has little meaning. Now when I created this forum it wasn’t just to declare the church is corrupt, everyone knows that. My intention was, and still is to expose the tricks of the deceivers, now to do this it can get a bit messy, and sometimes it can go off topic. In doing this passions are in-flame and thing that were meant to be kept hidden are expose. Now what I’m about to say is not an indictment of those who quote scripture a lot, if you notice I’m not one for quoting a lot of scripture, only when I feel that it is strictly necessary. I believe that those who are out to deceive the body of Christ love to keep us going back and forth about what scripture says, they can keep us from going to a deeper level to where the deception dwells, and that is what is truly in the heart of the deceiver.

          It is in the hidden deep parts of the heart where the man of deception truly dwells that many times need to be brought to the surface and exposed. In during this [in-flaming passions] we began to truly see some of the things that are hidden in that heart and by what means they intend to deceive the Body of Christ. It’s all about warning God’s people of the tricks of Satan that are being used on them to drag them down to hell. There are those who quote scripture and that’s a good thing as a study reminder to the body of Christ of what the Lord has said, but it is usually worthless when used on the deceiver who many times know the bible better the one during the quoting, they make it their business to know the word to trip up the young and unsuspecting Christian.

          This war is fought on many different levels, now each solder has had his or her boot camp training in a particular area of life, each solder has had certain life experiences that prepares them in their position in heaven’s army. What may seem to have little meaning to you at the time just may be Lord working from a different angle than what you have become accustom too. I have no disagreement with you, but I just thought that I needed to bring this out.

          1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
            Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Michael, great comment. I could not write it better.
            Just my thoughts and then I will read Michael's last comment:


            All people who come by may express their opinion but who likes argue about anything the end will never come.

            See this one. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in righteousness *) (DRCI). This is why Lord is talking to pastors of each Church in Book of Revelation. If you are the pastor you have an authority and chance to talk to your church. Otherwise if you are member or not meditate on this verse.
            *) Righteousness – Right standing with God.

            1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
              Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              roy, do you think that deceivers are going to listen to you?  Are we born yesterday?

              1. r-o-y profile image61
                r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God never said that they will listen, he said you are guard His sheep that includes warnin them of the wolve in sheeps clothing. wither they listen or not is is not your concern. your job is to be obydient to Ther Lord. What problem do you have with that?

      35. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

        r-o-y

        By the content, seems your respond targeting " Michael" that's only reason you reads my contribution, otherwise, you are addressing to  " Mickeal " and that's not me.

        On the other side, if you know what you are doing, and if you are commission by the Lord to to that , so be it.

        My best is and will be spreading the Word, since that is the base upon the Holy Spirit and works upon the hearts of people. (BTW, devil though know the Scripture, hates it, and that's all correct.)

      36. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Michael, I address this letter to Michael for now because I really don’t know who it is I’m conversing with. From your first post or whomever it was that posted that first time did have some problems with it, it seemed that there was someone name Michael that was ferring to himself as in third person, I’m glad you brought this up, because I am a bit, a lot confuse please clear this matter up for me. Who are you and who is Michael? Are You Milec? If so how am I to tell who is who or what am I during wrong.

      37. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        does the bible say you must be born again? do you understand what that means? there is a lot of question here to be answered here before we move on.

      38. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        You said you want to make sure that you under what I’m saying, wither or not we can trust New translations, when I answered it you said that you didn’t understand any of it, but you guest I did. If you truly wanted to understand, then why are you trying to move on to something else before you get an understanding of what I said? I think we need to take it point by point to get a clear understanding of what I said or else why are we putting ourselves through this, in the end we still don’t understand each other? I thought that was the point of communication, to get an understanding, now if we don’t finish with one thing before we move on to another then all this is for nothing. The whole thing is about where we are getting our information and wither it is can be counted on for delivering to whole truth to us. It has to do with wither for or not we can trust modern translation, that was part of your question we haven’t even discussed yet and you want to move on. The lord says things are done decent and in order so let’s see if we can some order out of this chaos. You said you don’t understand anything I said, tell me where you want me to start, is it the part where I said that some people are Satan appointed or where? If you expect me to answer your questions you must do like-wise I will not let you put a hook in my nose and lead me to where you want to take me when you want to take me there.

      39. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Correct: I meant that these  are Not small changes they are very important changes in  key locations!

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I can see why someone such as yourself might be afraid that the devil would want to change the Bible. But, the King James was a change. Just as the insertion of the word jehovah in earlier translations was a change. Which is why I get confused with your argument.

          I wanted a Bible so I researched it before I bought one because the King James put me to sleep faster than a B movie. I had never read the thing because it was written in a language that didn't flow. What I found when I took the time to research it was that it was translated into a language for the people of that time.People who lived four hundred years ago roy. And the translators had strict instructions to ensure that the translation conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy. That is a problem to me roy. A big problem. A king told the translators what the Bible was supposed to say. And, nobody bucks the king.

          I bought a New Living Translation primarily because, from everything I could find out, they worked as hard as was humanly possible to ensure that the translation from the ancient texts was pure. Teams worked on different sections, their translations had to go before committees and no sect had control. It was translated into a language I could enjoy reading.

          Nothing is perfect. Religion fascinates me and I have sat down with quite a few people from quite a few sects over the years to listen to what they think. They bring their own Bibles along to show me where they found the secret code that proves only they are right. I give them the benefit of the doubt when we disagree. I go to other translations and compare the passages. It's a fascinating thing how easily meaning is changed by the insertion of a comma, changing a word or omitting one. Throw that on top of every human being that picks up one of these translations finding a different meaning behind the words and you've got a recipe for confusion.

          My point is, don't put your faith in the King of England. Just because some things have been changed doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad thing. If you really want to know what the original people were trying to say when they wrote the words, we are in a better position now to know. We don't have kings who can behead people if they want to attempt to offer a sincere and unbiased translation.

          1. r-o-y profile image61
            r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile, you never responded to wither or not The NIV Bible actually removed the name of Jesus from some key locations. Now all these new bibles disagree with each other, now if they were all the word of God then they would be in agreement. You say that King James Bible has been changed, would you agree that they all have been changed? Now with all these different changes how we can know which one is the correct one, there is only one way to know for sure and that is to go to the author of the bible Himself. You seem to keep wanting to get away from this point, do you believe the word of God when He says you have direct access to Him for any answer you need, it’s His word who could enlighten more on what part of true and what is not? The only reason to keep anyone from going to that perfect source is that they don’t believe what it says is true. I return to that because we have never discussed the only solution to a world full of bibles that all says something different. Now let’s stay here for a bit. Now I ask you a to please answer this question, there is only one answer, but I want to hear your, don’t change the subject, answer the question. Where do you turn? As I said before when I have a problem something in The King James Bible I turn to the author of that Bible, don’t twist my words.  That’s why need to focus on one point at a time. Who do you turn to when you have a problem with something hard to understand in the word of God, if you turn to anybody other than God Himself, you set yourself up for deception, which do you turn to, don’t dodge the question, answer it! Who do you turn to!

            1. r-o-y profile image61
              r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Now you made a statement to the effect anyone who can’t accept homosexual couples are haters, I need you to show me in your LIVING bible or whatever version you use where it states that the God of the bible sanction homosexual relationships, now if you can’t show me that in scripture than this discussion is over, because you have proven that you are not of God, because the God of the bible says it’s an abomination for a man lay with another man! I’m really tired of this foolishness I been at this to long show me this in your bible or you don’t have to respond. Enough is enough!

            2. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know if the name of Jesus was removed from key portions. I've never heard of that before, and I can't imagine what purpose it would serve.

              I would agree that all translations are different. I don't suppose there would be a point in a New Translation if you didn't perceive problems that could be corrected with another translation. It's a big undertaking.

              However, it's a great leap of faith to think that you can just 'go to the author' for direct revelation. And that is a leap of faith in yourself. Not faith in a higher power.  There is too much evidence of people seeing what they want to see, not what is necessarily there. Ego takes over and everyone's a prophet of God.

              So, no. I don't think you can go directly to the source and start interpreting scripture on your own, when your interpretation steps on other people's toes. What happens when a person just as devout as yourself sees something different? You guys start insisting Satan is behind any who disagree. Then you start insisting Satan is motivating the rest of us. There's something off kilter about it all that none of you appear to be able to see.

              Everybody wants to be a messenger of God, but sometimes I wonder if it's less because they love God and more because they don't like the message they got in the first place.

              1. r-o-y profile image61
                r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You called God a hatrer its over!

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Do you read what I write roy? Or did your 'Holy Spirit' tell you I said that? That's what I'm talking about. You self proclaimed 'prophets' are deluding yourselves in order for your ego to have free reign over your thoughts and actions.

                  1. r-o-y profile image61
                    r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Emile, I it’s said yesterday it’s over you have proven to be an enemy of Christ there can never be peace between us, you are proven that also.  Now I’m not going to play this back and forth game of slander with you, I already told you that I read your other post that you placed. The reason you want to sling mud now is because is you who have been proven to be the false prophet it’s there for all to see, you have help to prove the whole point of this forum, you try to come across as one who hold to Christian values if not Christian, some type of religious values.  You will accept a Christianity that accepts all the things that God says is an abomination, and if the Christian bring to your attention that what you are is not of God, but of your father Satan you will set out to slander and convince others that that person is a hatemonger this is what I mean when I say you try to silence the Christian while you spread the gospel of hell! You can call me whatever you want to I’m not here to convince you of anything, but to expose you so that the other true Christians will see the real you, the one that hide behind the little smiley face thingie while you stroke them with your niceties all the while all the darkness of hell is driving you. Now as I said in the beginning these Christians see exactly who you are, but instead of helping to expose you many are going to fall in line behind you for the sake of peace, the peace at any cost, the peace that the Prince of peace despises!
                    You think you are a bit hit, but all you have done is to help bring out every point that I needed to expose who you really are. The Lord of the bible says witchcraft is an abomination, Emile says screw that, anyone who doesn’t except witchcraft is a hatemonger including the God of the bible [whatever name you which to call Him by] so your word to the Christian is shut up and let me do the will of my father Satan or I will really turn the world against you and label you a hater of mankind, a hatemonger, when it is you and your father Satan who actually are the haters of all mankind! 

                    It’s a waste of time trying to use these diabolical tricks on me, because I already know that the world [your world] hates me because you and your world and your father hated the Son of Man first, He already warned us that the world will hate those who are truly His because they hated Him first. Now this is what this forum is all about the end-time church, let’s not forget that! It’s about a church that see you clearly doing the works of your father Satan and instead of standing up for their Father and having nothing to do with you and your father, they will let you stroke them with your deceitful niceties and the little smiley face thingie and make friends with you all for the sake of peace, a peace that The Prince of peace despises! But I think you know that there could never be peace between you and I or between your father and my Father. Now when I say there could never be peace between us I don’t mean that in a physical violence sense, I desire no physical harm for you that would truly be unchristian, what I’m talking about is the spirits that drives us.

                    No, there could never be true peace between us; I’m not of that church that you’ve infiltrated, you are out to destroy the Body of Christ. Now as I said, I’m not going to go back and forth with you on this, but I would like to thank you for helping me prove the whole point of this forum!

                    1. profile image0
                      Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Get help roy. The sooner the better. smile

                    2. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
                      Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      r-o-y, My Lord said: Bless are peacemakers...

                      Emily R, God loves you and me too.

                      1. profile image0
                        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        That makes me think of something I once read.
                        "I exist" said the man.
                        "I know"said the universe. "Knowledge of this fact has not, however, aroused in me a sense of obligation."


                        Some just can't be happy with what they've got. And all we know for sure that we have is each other.

                      2. r-o-y profile image61
                        r-o-yposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Vladimir, I don’t know who your lord is, but the Lord I serve asks a question, how two can walk together unless they agree. So what you’ll saying is that your lord love the works of Satan, you are saying your lord approves of homosexual relationships, you’ll saying your lord is in agreement with those who are out to destroy the Body of Christ, you’ll saying your lord approves of anyone no matter the condition of their hearts toward Jesus Christ, you’ll saying your lord welcomes all! But that’s not my Lord says.

                        Now this is what my Lord says about the things your lord sanction, my Lord says that those who practice homosexual acts is no part of his kingdom the first mention of sexual that your lord approve of is in Genesis 19:1-13. Sodom was one of the wicked cities of its time; God sent two of His messengers to visit lot. The wicket men of this Godless city attempted the homosexual rape of the two messengers of God, God destroyed everyone in that city including Lot’s wife for their  homosexual practices, and yet you say your lord approves of those who either participate in or encourage to indulge in horrible act against God. Here’s what the true Lord of the bible says of such acts:

                        You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22)
                        If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (NKJ, Leviticus 20:13)

                        So whomever your lord is it is not the Lord of the bible, because the true Lord say the things your lord approves of stinks in His nostrils and is an abomination to Him!

                        The Lord of the bible says those who practice such not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven!

                        I think you need to do a double check on who your lord really is!

      40. Jenna Pope profile image61
        Jenna Popeposted 4 years ago

        After being a nondenominational evangelical Protestant, I studied the church fathers and joined the Catholic Church. I love it.

      41. r-o-y profile image61
        r-o-yposted 4 years ago

        Vladimir, I knew that something wasn’t just right but I never took you for one that would blatantly take stand against the word of God! When He is clear that you are to expose evil and not buddy-up with it! You say that I owe Emile an apology come, bring you bible with you and prove to me from the pages of that bible where I’m, wrong, and I will apologize. You never responded to my question of which is your lord, is maybe you can prove from that bible of yours that your lord is the same Lord of that bible, but doubt that very seriously. You jumped out there in defense of something you have no knowledge of, and what it is you have become a part of, didn’t take time to find out what it is you have just become a part of.  You have chosen your position and side in this war against Christ and His church; now prove from scripture that you have not taken this stand against the King of kings and Lord of lords. Prove from scripture that your stand is justified!

       
      working