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If God Knows Everything

  1. jainismus profile image78
    jainismusposted 4 years ago

    Believers believe that God knows everything. Then why many believers pray to God loudly, shouting and many times on microphone?

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      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The bible tells you why...it has to do with keeping up certain appearances. A form of Godliness. They want to be praised by men, most often.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        genaea - a believer praying on a microphone may not necessarily be doing it to keep up an appearance. Of course, we know the microphone's purpose is to magnify the sound so everyone in the building could hear what's being said. In an open-tent revival service or in a large auditorium, such things are necessary.

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, you need to project your prayer? Jesus said that in... Can you help me with that? I did say most often. I believe ( for some reason ) that you know too well how it goes. Jesus dpoke against showmanship and pride. Most often, those michrophoned prayers are for men to see and glorify the fervent one. It is against God. Pride goes before destruction. When you pray to God, why does everyone need to hear it?

          1. ComfortB profile image83
            ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I understand, not disputing that some do pray to be seen by others, like the bible says in Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them".

            I guess the bad ones do always give the good ones a bad reputation. That we both agree on. Take care sis.smile

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Take care smile

            2. youcanwin profile image37
              youcanwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              To lead a congregation in prayer, sometimes we use a microphone.  If there is no microphone, then pray loudly.  This brings unity in prayer.  After the prayer all those who are in the congregation say "amen" that means they unitedly agree with the prayer offered.
              Thanks for your understanding.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am not sure I understand why everyone must agree with the prayer in unity. I thought prayer was a personal matter. Remember when Jesus went a distance away from his followers to pray? He did not say, "ok warriors, join hands, we gotta pray about this thing." He always blessed bread, but I don't remember a prayer being spoken.  I remember standing in church with my head bowed and hearing the very loud microphoned prayers and I hardly ever knew even what the prayer was. There was so much hollering and moaning into that mic. And let us not forget the speaking in toungues. I mean how can I understand or agree rightfully? I wonder about communal prayers. Did Jesus lead one? The prayer he taught did include the words our and us. We just gotta be careful.

                1. youcanwin profile image37
                  youcanwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is better to know Jesus and avoid all arguments.  Focus on Jesus: I would like to share a Vision by By Mary K. Baxter.:

                  "Jesus, have mercy!"
                  "O, Lord!" I said. It was the voice of a woman. I looked at her and wanted to pull her out of
                  the fire. The sight of her broke my heart.
                  The skeleton form of a woman with a dirty-grey mist inside was talking to Jesus. In shock, I
                  listened to her. Decayed flesh hung by shreds from her bones, and, as it burned, it fell off
                  into the bottom of the pit. Where her eyes had once been were now only empty sockets.
                  She had no hair.
                  The fire started at her feet in small flames and grew as it climbed up and over her body. The
                  woman seemed to be constantly burning, even when the flames were only embers. From
                  deep down inside her came cries and groans of despair, "Lord, Lord, I want out of here!"
                  She kept reaching out to Jesus. I looked at Jesus, and there was great sorrow on His face.
                  Jesus said to me, "My child, you are here with Me to let the world know that sin results in
                  death, that hell is real.
                  I looked at the woman again, and worms were crawling out of the bones of her skeleton.
                  They were not harmed by the fire. Jesus said, "She knows and feels those worms inside."
                  "God, have mercy!" I cried as the fire reached its peak and the horrible burning started all
                  over again. Great cries and deep sobs shook the form of this woman-soul. She was lost.
                  There was no way out. "Jesus, why is she here?" I said in a small voice, for I was very
                  scared.
                  (You may download the free ebook from net by googling "A Divine Revelation of Hell": Hear the eyewitness testimony on
                  the True Existence of Hell. Mary Katherine Baxter)

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I've read that very book. There is no way to avoid all arguments. This argument is extremely expedient. The war is in motion. How can they hear...? All will know. Soldiers are in place. God wants all of his children.

                2. youcanwin profile image37
                  youcanwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25 You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:

                  “‘Why do the nations rage
                      and the peoples plot in vain?
                  26 The kings of the earth rise up
                      and the rulers band together
                  against the Lord
                      and against his anointed one.[b]’[c]

                  27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

                  31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks.  I was hoping for a prayer that Jesus led communally.  I guess there wasn't one.  However, the day of pentecost, good example.  This prayer was obviously needed.  I wonder if they said, "Right now Lord!!!" or, Aww-aww, or any of the other characteristic moans.  As I said before, God searches the heart's intent.  He knows who is and who is not.
                    I can remember that I used to be a "restaurant prayer".  I was turned off by it when I realized that I did it for show.  I realized that it was not the prayer to God that concerned me, really.  It was all the looks.  Especially if I could say, "excuse me" and bow down, at the table.  It was not that didn't know that the Lord had my back already.  I had a point to prove.  See me world.  I was convicted.  It is rude to stop a dinner conversation to utter a prayer.  I prefer to do it in my spirit, on the way to the table now.  It is just not about the show.  I know that back then , I did not intentionally set out to "showboat" It was really not a conscious effort to get attention.  I just realized that it was rude, most often. And then a sense of pride that I had prayed to my father when everyone else did not. It was not for my food.  It was subconsciously for my friends.  Once the light had shone on that flaw.  I changed my mind.  God now blesses my food even before I get it. smile  Please don't take this to be a personal, "I hate your way" matter.  I just wanted another point of view.  God is only upset with prayer when it is full of self. He loves to hear from us.

          2. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
            Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If I may contribute to discussion.
            Jesus was talking to specific people. Those pharisee who did showed up their hypocrisy. But when He talked to believers He said speak Word loud (matter).  The faith comes by hearing. If it is loud for you, you have remote control. It is not necessary to hate. It damages immune system. smile

    2. artblack01 profile image80
      artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The people who created God wanted a subservient slave cast that believed God would answer their prayers but then go to the preachers for wisdom as to why God seem to deny them.  That way they could teach them about being worthy of God and having certain behaviors that was pleasing to God.  The louder you ask for prayer the more likely the preacher could hear your weaknesses.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The preacher hearing your weaknessed is not necessarily a bad thing. It will only encourage sincere prayers from others on your behalf. In fact, you can prayer quietly  without uttering a word out and God could still reveal your weaknesses to your pastor or brethren. It's all part of the work of the Holy Spirit.

        1. artblack01 profile image80
          artblack01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Fortunately I'm a nonbeliever so I am not likely to be fooled by religious agendas and propaganda.

          1. GiancarloLorenzo profile image90
            GiancarloLorenzoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            This

        2. dianetrotter profile image81
          dianetrotterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I know Catholics confess to priests; however, the Bible doesn't tell us to go before a preacher.  Confessions should be to God directly.

    3. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
      Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Prayer is talking to God. He is person and likes to converse.  Can we imagine when your son would be mute? Besides, speaking Word to God has effect on us.  It rebuild faith lost in Garden of Eden.
      We are returning His WORD to Him that will accomplish what was sent for.
      Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So, where is He? Let Him come out of hiding and talk to us all, what's the problem? Why are you talking with God and the rest of us are not? Why do you believe you're special?

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God is not hiding. It takes faith that he is there. It only takes a little faith. He will reveal himself to you just like he did the rest of us. We are not special, we only have faith in him.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It only takes a little faith for starving children to believe in Jesus, but when those same children could hear the good Christians on this forum preaching for others to pray because Jesus will answer your prayers will lose that faith when they die of starvation.

            So, when will Jesus reveal himself? Please ask him the next time you speak with him? Inquisitive minds want to know.

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Inquire no more smile To you, God will reveal himself whenever you want to receive him. You have made your choice on that right? Fyi... Just so you know, death will happen all around us for the rest of our days. As sure as you live, you will die. Starving children is our fault, not God's.

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That is callous beyond belief on his part for a supposedly loving god, I don't know if you have ever seen people starving to death but the indescribable agony they suffer and their deaths before they have any chance to live all of this could be spared with out effort and he does not... Sorry but simply cruel objectively.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You are entitled to your own opinion.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Long ago, but to date, nothing. No God, nada, zip, zilch.



                Is there some point to that statement, I can only assume that those who starve to death early in life are of no consequence to you, just the circle of life, sort of thing, yes? Inevitable, is it?



                God created us to serve Him, nothing more,hence it is His fault for not making sure we're all fed.

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You don't look like you've been missing any meals. Besides, you say there is no God, so it is your reponsibility to feed the hungry. Quit wasting time with this endless blathering and get to work!

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Why would you say that?



                    Exactly, so please stop praying and do something.



                    God gets all the worship and praise and I do His work?

            2. brotheryochanan profile image61
              brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus will reveal himself when the jews acknowledge his messiahship.
                 Matthew 23:39   For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
                Luke 13:35   Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

          2. darkland profile image60
            darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            very well said, unfortunately the doubters think believers are duped but they haven't tried so they can't know that the proof is internal not external

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Which completely misses the fact that many non believers including myself were once devout followers.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Devout? You no longer believe?

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, I was a very faithful Catholic and now I no longer believe.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Perhaps you and I also disagree on the definition of faithful.

                  2. brotheryochanan profile image61
                    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    catholicism is the problem. There is no personal relationship and so many pagan doctrines. Its good and profitable to check out of catholicism but then one should go to some other denomination. Shop around like you would a car you wanted to buy. But when the holiness of God produces your stumblingblock by asking you to give up something very important to you, don't do what others have done and shrug God as not existing.. realize you had a god before Him and went as far as you could go - not leaning and trusting in Him fully to help you - and that your impatience lead you to condemn yourself while He wanted to work on the situation and that should keep you safe.

              2. darkland profile image60
                darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well then Josak, I stand corrected in your case and probably many others. I personally couldn't imagine living without the strong belief that God is with me (or better stated: I'm with Him).  You are obviously intelligent and if your philosophy supports you and you are happy, I wouldn't presume to argue that with you

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Repetition is key.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So, you are of the mind that if something is repeated over and over, it must be true.

                That's called a logical fallacy.

                1. jacharless profile image82
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Einstein called that the definition of insanity.
                  Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Kind of like these two items:
                  "but the bible says..." and "...starving children...your religion causes so many wars."
                  Madness is too kind...

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So, if believers suddenly stopped saying, "but the bible says" would atheists continue to respond?

                    Is there an actual need for atheists, the concept itself, and a need for atheists to say anything at all regarding religions if the religious kept their beliefs to themselves?

                    Funny, how you think that's ALL madness when one side is constantly attempting to explain reality to those who reject it.

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                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol  That was a perfect zinger

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You forgot to add your repetition to the list there.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, if something true is repeated over and over, it is reaized, eventually.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry, but there is little if any truth in your posts and no amount of repetition is going to change that.

                  2. Im The Nana profile image27
                    Im The Nanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    genea:  you are very blessed.  I can see God has given you wisdom and knowledge.  God bless you.

                  3. heatblast92 profile image84
                    heatblast92posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    By 'realized', you mean one should wallow in a belief, against all probability that it may not be in keeping with reality, and the echoes it would generate off the confines of your mind, so frequently that one would eventually come to accept it to be true? Seems proper.

                3. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't see what a fallacy has do do with anything. I know my finance's Harley is nothing but a big fallacy symbol, but it is fun to ride, anyway. I hate it when he guns it at the stop light. The sound of the throaty motor makes him feel powerful.

                  Oh! Now I get it. You are gunning your motor at the light.

                  1. scottcgruber profile image91
                    scottcgruberposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    fal·la·cy  /ˈfaləsē/
                    Noun:
                    A mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument
                    A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid

                    phal·lus  /ˈfaləs/
                    Noun:
                    A penis, esp. when erect (typically used with reference to male potency or dominance)
                    An image or representation of an erect penis, typically symbolizing fertility or potency

                    fi·nance  /ˈfīnans/
                    Noun:   
                    The management of large amounts of money, esp. by governments or large companies.

                    fi·an·cé  /fē-ˌän-ˈsā/
                    Noun:
                    A man to whom a woman is engaged to be married.

                    You're welcome.

              2. a49eracct profile image60
                a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Repetition is key? What religion teaches that? That's the definition of insanity...

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Did you get to my description yet??? If something true is repeated over and over, is is realized eventually. Insanity does the same thing over and over expecting different results. To me, there is a difference in this case. You can't possibly believe it, unless you first hear it. Once you get past all your questions and denials and reasonings, you are free to choose. Hear/don't hear.

    4. jacharless profile image82
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Easy: they are practicing pagans. Think Elijah and the priests of ba`al -the exact practice of most of the believing, less the cutting themselves -in some circles. The evoking of names, over and over, shouting,  roaring sound bites from books etc yet continuing to live just like the rest of the world. Think Moshe @ the base of the mountain and what they people did less than a month short of freedom. In short: self indulgent entertainment.

      James

      1. Disappearinghead profile image88
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well they evoke "the name of Jesus" as if they think God will rubber stamp the prayer or that proclaiming the name has some mystical power. They include their memorised sound bites from books to preach to the listeners under the guise of building their faith. Yes a sham that nobody is willing to call out or they are so indoctrinated they don't notice.

    5. GiancarloLorenzo profile image90
      GiancarloLorenzoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If God knows everything, he knows what will do before we do it.  So why does he allow us to be deceived by Satan whom he created instead of stopping us?

      1. a49eracct profile image60
        a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Because God gave man free will. Essentially we are writing our own life story, God just edits it for us.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, and God "edits" the life out of tens of thousands of starving children every day.

          What a loving God. Praise Edits!

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Still to and fro, seeking, huh? You pick little words to blow up. You remind me of the little rascals. Just more cynical, and snide, and frankly, troubled.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ah, I see your God has successfully taught you all about love. lol

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, and you missed the lesson.

          2. a49eracct profile image60
            a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually troubled, he can't. He cannot do anything in anyone's life until that person chooses Him. If you do not believe (which is fine) your life is up to you- but it's a lot easier to right a ship when there's someone strong enough to help you. Unfortunately, many of those starving children don't hear the word. And quite frankly, most children don't understand what it is they are hearing.

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He must do many things in everyone's life. He is God. He sends rain and sunshine upon the just as well as unjust.

              1. a49eracct profile image60
                a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But you can't know that as "god's doing" until you have come to accept god. To most people, that's nature. Which by the way- man knows how to control/change/etc.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I agreee. But if man knows how to control nature, then the dating materials would really be off.

                  1. a49eracct profile image60
                    a49eracctposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Genaea, please think about what you say before you type it. Man did not know how to date these things even 200 years ago. And controlling it is something new of the last 20 years.

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              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              To test your theory out lets have a look at cancer wards and see if there are any Christians dying a most painful humiliating death. If your theory were true Christians would be immune to cancers and other illnesses, but they are not. Cancer is an equal opportunist, and no amount of prayer saves lives. Doctors do.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. What more is there to discuss?

              2. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And sometimes doctors don't. My wife died from Stage 4 uterine cancer and if the doctors had been a little more on the ball, it might have been caught earlier and she might still be alive. I don't know. God works the way He works.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What I was trying to say, was unfortunately no amount of prayer could save her. Cancer doesn't care about religion. It just destroys. I've seen my fair share of cancer and most likely I'm not done with my fair share. She had stated that the reason children are dyeing of hunger in Africa is because they don't pray. I don't think that's fair or accurate. All it does is supply guilt to the sick. If one is told they are dying because they didn't pray enough or right they will become overcome with guilt at a horrible time. This practice of telling people with Cancer they did something wrong should be stopped. I've seen it first hand and it's cruel.

                  1. aguasilver profile image87
                    aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That I agree with, unfortunately there is much ignorance in the world, coming to faith does NOT make someone intelligent of well informed, even if it gives them the opportunity of gaining wisdom, it gives them no inside track to wisdom.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's kind of a touchy subject for me, as I know you understand. I don't disagree with much of what you wrote. But that's still a little raw for me to get into right now.

              3. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Doctors actually kill hundreds of thousands of folk each year, especially with chemo and radiation therapies, so I would not put too much faith in modern medicine.

                Hospitals are great for diagnostics, and if the problem is trauma wounds, good at solving the problems, but when it comes to things they do not know the cure for, they are still stumbling around in the dark, educated dark perhaps, but still not much further than when they applied leeches and cowpat compresses.

                You are confusing living longer with living eternally.

                You are also neglecting that once someone relies upon modern medicine, they are in some small way NOT trusting God and Christ, which is understandable, because every doctor would advise against trusting faith and Gods guidance for a cure, and most of us are conditioned in the 'white coat' syndrome that teaches us that the doctor is always right.

                But there are some wonderful testimonies of how God can direct our healing:

                http://www.thegoldenreport.com/special- … for-battle

                He is still living today, and healthy.

                Cancer is a by product of unhealthy living, we may chose to live and respect Gods healthy ways, or chose to not do so, the results will surface in our ways of death.

                Being a believer does not grant us immunity from disease if we allow the conditions for disease to enter our lives, nor is faith a 'get out of jail free' card.

                But faith does ensure that when we pass, we are with Christ and God, which like health choices in life, is a choice we make that affects not only our temporal existence, but more essentially, our eternal existence.

                We are free to chose how we live, and how we die, living for eternal life or eternal damnation.

                Your remarks are ill conceived and demonstrate you lack of understanding.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I didn't imply that Doctors can fix everything.

    6. arbitrarycurls profile image78
      arbitrarycurlsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If by the people shouting into microphones you mean evangelists, and preachers/pastors/reverends, it's because they are relaying the message to ears who want to hear. Of course the shouting is optional and an individual choice usually driven by passion, but they are teaching the crowd the word of God. How will people learn about God unless they're opening their mouths to talk about him?

      GiancarloLorenzo, God gave us freewill. That means we make our own choices in life and God's not puppeteering.If you are struggling with Satan it would do you well to get to know God that way he's on your side. No one, not even Satan, can come against him and no one can defeat him.

    7. Nyamache profile image82
      Nyamacheposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God knows everything since He is all knowing. When a person is alone and that prays loudly then that is wrong. He/she is supposed to pray silently. However, if it is a gathering like crusade or any other Christian gathering for the purpose of worshiping God then there is nothing wrong praying loudly using a microphone.  The Bible encourages Christians to pray without ceasing but this does not mean that you keep on repeating the same words over and over or praying many words in order God to hear. The Holy Bible farther informs us (Christians) not to pray like hypocrites. The book that teaches us on how to pray is Mathew 6:5-13.

    8. umbertoobrian profile image60
      umbertoobrianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Frequently, too frequently, relgious expression isn't about God at all but, rather, about the person who wants attention for his prayers from an audience.

    9. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
      Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If I may  to contribute to discussion.
      Jesus was talking to specific people. He spoke to those pharisee who did showed up their hypocrisy. But when He talked to believers He said: speak Word loud (matter).  The faith comes by hearing. If it is loud for you, you have remote control. It is not necessary to hate. It damages immune system.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Faith comes by hearing the word of God. It is also stressed that some hearts have been hardened so that they may NOT hear. Some harden their own hearts so as NOT to hear.

        We cannot know God's thoughts; nor give him advice. He is Lord smile

        His grace and mercy are free and undeserved. Our faith makes us righteous and spotless in his eyes. Not acts.

    10. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      My humble opinion was formed many years ago when I used to attend a small christian group.   Apart from the Sunday services, There was a prayer meeting on Wednesday evenings.
      We joined in "ex-temporary" prayer.   Each person could "speak to god," in turn.   I learned to do this quite well, and got attention and good vibes from others attending.
      Looking back, though, it was totally Ego playing a game!  We said what was "nice."  We could say things that we wanted to "get over" to others in the room and it could not be criticized since it was "talking with god."   Much of what we said in prayer was absolute rubbish.   Words got repeated over and over again, like we were talking to an idiot.
      "We just ask you Lord....."   "Amen!!!!"   "Allelujah!!!"  "We just pray, Lord, that you will help Jean here to do what is right tomorrow morning when she goes before the boss.   That you will give her the right words to say......"
      As if a "god" worth worshiping would be at all interested in the petty desires of infinitely tiny bits of dust living on an even more tiny planet in one of the trillion planets of the universe!
      Sermons can do the same sort of trick, but in front of a crowd.   The priest or pastor says things which effectively castigate the congregation, making sure they understand what is politically correct in "god's" eyes.  And the "prayer" the pastor gave at the end of the sermon would be similarly directed.
      Fortunately I gave up that sort of thing a long time ago. I am no longer worried by the imaginary presence of a god.
      But each to his/her own choice.  You don't have to go along my path if it does not suit you.

      1. darkland profile image60
        darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for this, johnny, I understand and agree with what you say about these kinds of prayers and admire your humility.   
        I do think that God is more universally pervasive than energy or gravity. He can affect the micro and the macro at the same time and know all things.   I think that intelligence and love do not originate with people but is a function of the universe more so than any physical force.  The more I know about the universe the more wondrous God is to me.  I think He does care about the dust specks as much as the stars and galaxies.
        On the other hand I agree we tend to think as man thinks and that limits our sense of God.  I might offer that perhaps you are merely seeking a more true sense of Him and that's why you saw those prayers as....well, ridiculous.Perhaps in your heart you have a much grander idea of what God is, if so, that's a good thing.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I do not accept the premise of a god existing at all.  I have dispensed with that notion, thank you.  "God" only exists in a person's mind, there is no more reality to it than that.
          I know that you, like others who do have a "belief" in a god, will continue to make the assumption that I "need" god in my life.   
          You are free to make that assumption, of course.  But I do NOT need it, and ask that you totally respect my decision and my wish. 
          If you continue to pray for me, because you think you know my needs, then that is all your stuff and will not effect me in the slightest.
          It will simply show that you wish to "win over on me," to satisfy your own beliefs.
          For my part, I am not free to insist that you drop your beliefs.  That is your free choice.
          It might be that I am misjudging you and that you are not the fundamentalist christian I presume you are.  Please excuse me if that is the case.   
          Live and let live, but if a christian insists upon following the life of the person called Jesus then learn and develop unconditional love, not the imposed one.
          (Post editing here:   the "god" I refer to here is the one that makes judgment.   This god is set up by human beings to lord it over other human beings.   This I reject totally.   However, there is the possibility that some entity of a being, spiritual let us say for argument's sake, that designed and set in motion this world as we know it.   I am open to this line of discussion, because it's wholesome in the true sense of the word.  It allows for wonder, mystery, learning more and more, opening our minds to the beautiful and integrated creation.   We can only honour and respect such a "designer" by looking after the creation to the best of our ability.   Making selfish and self-important judgment on others is not constructive... it's destructive and divisive.)

          1. darkland profile image60
            darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No sir, I'm not a fundamentalist christian, I'm just a bible student.  As I've said already in this thread I highly respect anyone who does the right thing for it's own sake regardless of their religious affiliation or lack of it.  To be honest, I don't  understand how anyone can live happily without a sense of God's presence in their life, but I don't know how a lot of things work so I don't doubt it's possible, likely and happening.  For me, I don't believe that God is a white bearded fellow on a cloud somewhere, although we might communicate with Him that way.  I see God as the fundamental reality of Being.  If you were to strip off all the perception, assumption and misconception from what we know of the universe and add everything we don't know we might some idea of what God actually is by seeing His creation as it is. I'm not agnostic though, I believe that all life stems from Him. He is that which brought us out of the primordial ooze, so although we can't know Him completely, as we develop, we will automatically become more and more aware of Him.   
            No, I don't need to convert you or change you in any way.  I do like to discuss these matters though so I would be open to whatever your thoughts might be.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              With great respect, thank you.

              1. darkland profile image60
                darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No, thank you

            2. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
              Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Personally I can not see what value the idea of a god adds to your life.

              As for how I can be happy without one in my life, it is simple. I am happy, and yet there is no god in my life. People can be and are very happy without a god.

              I used to believe when I was a child. But after extensive study I discovered I no longer believed. However, it was not that simple. Christianity is full of traps meant to keep you in the faith, and even when you no longer believe it is hard to accept.

              But once you break free of the idea of perpetual sin and a need to be saved, you become liberated.

              I truly was never happier than when I finally broke the last bonds I had with  the christian god myth.

              Keep an open mind, do a lot of private study, and I can almost promise you will  eventually come to the conclusion that Christianity is not the answer. The danger is stopping before you figure it all out because you are scared or feel guilty for not keeping the faith,. It can be hard to do. For some it is impossible.

              But if you do, you will see that it is easy to be happy without a god.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I fully understand what you mean, Slarty.  Pretty well all of what you write I agree with.  This has been a similar pathway myself.
                However, I do have a "soft spot" for people who are still hanging on to a faith in "something" bigger than themselves.   Call this "something" God, or the Divine Consciousness, whatever.   
                I see each of us walking a unique path from birth to death.  Each of us is given (on the premise there is someone or something that is the giver) a set of ingredients for our use during life.   Even if each of us got exactly the same ingredients and quantities at the start of it, the Cake-of-Life which we create would be different from the next person's. 
                This is the nature of wonder and awe with which I survey life now.  Had I got stuck and stopped in the religion of my early years I don't believe such a sense of wonder and mystery would have been mine.  The christianity gave me a start, yes.  Obviously I got some of my moral principles from it, too.  But that should not lead us to assume that christianity has a monopoly on morality.   It should not be thought that a person believing in original sin and redemption through an envoy of "God" will be any nicer, or right in life, than someone who is atheist in their thinking.
                Conversely, it would be wrong to suppose that a person without a faith will be a villain.   Just being a christian does not make a person "good."   Landing up in prison on a 10-year sentence does not mean that man or woman is inherently evil.    The society we live in will of course make its judgment.
                Where possible I feel it's ideal if I can try to see deeper into a person's heart and soul before making any sort of judgment.   Even then I can be way off the mark.
                I have digressed. 
                The person still retaining a faith in their christianity is not my business.   It's all a personal choice.  The person who is very comfortable and confirmed in that faith is more likely to be at peace in my presence, without feeling a need to convert me.   Conversely the person who needs frequent conversions in order to keep their faith alive is probably living in doubt and discomfort.
                Lots of points to consider here.

                1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I have to agree with you on all of this. In fact I see so much wonder and awe in the world without a god that in the mid 1990s I helped put that awe and wonder into a religion/world view for atheists called Scientific Pantheism and the World Pantheist Movement.

                  There are many good arguments for the idea that god is a metaphor for the process of existence itself,  defined by the laws of nature.

                  Carl Sequin said that there should be a new religion for the new millennium based on science. We made that happen. Dawkins recently said fondly that Pantheism is: "Sexed up atheism".

                  Some atheists don't have any personal world view and aren't very interested in the world or the big questions. I find that a lot of us seem to think that all this is just normal or something. Nothing extraordinary going on,.

                  But that is because the word atheist means one thing and one thing only: We lack a belief in god or gods. The word atheism tells you what a person does not believe, but it does not tell you anything else. We are a diverse bunch, just as diverse as the Christian faith. Chances are few of us have a lot more in common than any other "randomly" selected group of people   has.

                  Similarities or like mindedness only begins to crop up when people start identifying with specific world views. A person telling you they are a materialist, for example, tells you a lot more about them then just knowing they are atheists.

                  Eisenstein told us that science without religion was dead, and that religion without science is lame. How can you study science and not see something so amazing that any god myth pales by comparison?

                  To each their own. But to me, the study of science gives me what I can only explain as the same experiences I got as a child as a believer. The revelations science gives are true religious experiences, with no god required.

                  You might like Pantheism. No one converts to it. You find your own world view in it or you don't. You discover you are a  Pantheist or you don't.

                  Certainly everyone is free to believe what they like or to not believe anything at all. But if they come to debate then they want a challenge.

                  I started debating in order to understand my own views better and to have them go through a trial by fire. So I love debating religion, and I don't mind if it gets a bit hot.

                  But just like you I do feel for some of the people on these boards who are struggling with themselves and what they believe. I tend to tailor my comments for the individual I am trying to debate.

                  You seem like a very reasonable person. So does Darkland for that matter. That's rare in this place for both sides. I applaud both of you,

              2. darkland profile image60
                darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you, I respect and appreciate your answer.  I can see where you might feel that way.
                I have studied this subject all of my life and have questioned faith many times.  I agree that if faith is simply based on fear and prayer is based on personal desire for gain that it is conceptually unfulfilling to the thinking person. 
                I have studied many versions of the bible as well as many different religions in hopes of finding the one, true God.  I, like so many, didn't really find Him in a normal church or individual religion, but when I thought about it I always found that my problem stemmed from the way we are taught to approach God.  There are many traditions, rituals and beliefs that are left over from other times and even from paganism.  I realized none of that actually had to do strictly with the Word of God, only it's application by man.  It was reasonable to assume that all of us are simply seeing different aspects of one thing, like Kipling's "Three Blind Men and an Elephant".  I believe that all us have some sense of God, we don't look out and see a chaotic universe where anything goes. We see order and system, we depend on consistency and strive to understand it, just like people have always done.  The idea of God or gods has been with us since the beginning of reason.  You may believe it is unnecessary, but I think, in some form it is indispensable to consciousness. 
                If you believe that intelligent thought is simply the coincidence of a random chemical reaction and is localized to an individual entity than I grant you are an atheist, but then I think we are falsely projecting order on the universe that doesn't exist. On the other hand, if you believe intelligence is pervasive in the very delicate balance of our world and the universe, and that it can be understood through logic then it follows that you have some sense of a god, even if it's pantheistic.  I think it's reasonable to assume intelligence is a function of the universe, that math and physics are universal metaphysical reality and not simply a construct of the human mind.  If this is so, it also follows that there may be a super-intelligence, at least within consciousness, that is self aware or perhaps self awareness itself.
                The bible was written and almost constantly edited by, in my opinion, some of the greatest minds in history, who believed wholeheartedly in God. They struggled to understand Him in the context of their situation.  To me it holds the key to understanding ourselves and the most positive and productive way to think. From all this, I have gained an incredible faith in God and his active presence in the very basis of our thinking.  I realize I am making a very large leap here for the reader but it is out of pity for you.  I could go on and on and on, but I'll spare you, and for now I'll leave it at that.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Your entire post is very thought-provoking.  In the quote above, I wonder if the analogy could be taken from our WWW and the Internet.   Millions of computers all acting in a conjoined, cooperative manner, with inputs and feed-backs from every point in the system.   All sharing intelligence and information.  All dependent upon each other yet able to act independently as required.
                  Could this "God" factor be something like the analogy?  Not, as we mostly agree, like an old bearded man in the sky, but an inherent spirit connecting us all and using us as it's WWW.....(com)

                  (By the way, I might be bearded, but I ain't living in the sky, and I ain't God!)

                  1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                    Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    According to Dr Persinger of  Laurentian University, if we could all tune our minds to a specific frequency (7.5 Hz if I am not mistaken) we could all communicate telepathically through the earths magnetic field. In a very real sense we are already connected through it, though physically rather than telepathically.

                    He even seems to have some evidence of this.

                    The thing to ask then is: Do we really want to be connected telepathically? No more secrets, Id that a good thing? Could drive some us mad I should think. lol...

                2. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Never spare me. lol... Say what's on your mind.

                  The word "god" is a very ambiguous term. What in the world is a god? No one knows really and everyone their opinion. It all depends on what you think a god should be.

                  Descartes as well as Anselm tried to define god as perfection in the universe. If you can think of perfection then there must be a god because we as humans can only think of things we have experienced. Therefore the idea of god must be implanted into our genetic code so to speak.

                  Well that idea falls short because we can certainly think of many things that we do not experience, and the way to thinking of perfection is simply a matter of continuously asking   how much better it can be until you come  to an upper limit.

                  So since perfection does not give us a proof of god one could make a case for it through existence itself.

                  We exist. We did not always exist. Therefore something had to have happened to bring us into existence. Hence what ever brought us into existence can be seen as god. Therefore there is a god.

                  But that formula of logic does not tell you what god is. It certainly does not tell you that god is an intelligence. So you have to ask whether intelligence is required to bring us into being., The answer to that is debatable but if the findings of science are correct there is no consciousness required.


                  Science does not say it directly, but it is implied in it's findings. If you put, as you say, math, chaos, and the laws of physics together, you have a perfect working model of a system that creates complexity from simplicity using very simple rules.

                  The Pantheist god is described in many ways. It is the totality of existence, the universe itself/all in it, But I like to think of it as a god process so to speak.

                  Does the universe require that intelligence of some sort is inherent its fabric? I wouldn't say so. But I will say that I think energy has a rudimentary awareness inherent in it. A potential for awareness. Intelligence implies consciousness of some kind and we can see that as an emergent property of complexity,

                  Perhaps awareness is too, but it is tempting to think that potential rudimentary awareness may be a fundamental part of energy, even if actual awareness isn't. More data may tell.

                  That energy itself may posses some kind of potential awareness is just my opinion. I have to add that my opinion does not constitute a belief on my part. It changes as the evidence changes,. I see no reason for faith or even belief. Facts do not require either, just acceptance once they are known. And what are not facts are by definition speculation and there is really no reason to put your faith in that,

                  I've written a lot of hubs on chaos theory and energy, mass,, entropy and  a host of other topics to bring some of these points together. It's a complex topic to say the least.

                  As a philosopher of science I do find myself unable to make giant leaps of faith or speculation. But I am well aware of the value of putting things in ways others will understand and see the amazing connections many don't know about.

                  I'll therefore  leave some sort of cosmic consciousness in the realm of speculation until such time as it becomes self evident or is falsified.

                  It is easy to see why people are tempted to believe that there is an super intellect out there somewhere. We think of consciousness as the pinnacle of of creation.

                  But more and more neuroscience is finding that the subconscious is where it all happens. The subconscious is full blown awareness and instinct. The consciousness is an aspect of the mind that can use tools like logic and reason to educate that instinctive mind.

                  Feelings/emotions come from the subconscious. Our best ideas come from there.

                  What happens when you want to learn a new skill? At first you have to do a lot of thinking and deliberating. But as you learn you find you no longer have to work so hard at it. The musician that has to think about the next note misses it. A skill becomes automatic once it is learned, and conscious deliberation about it at that time is a distraction.

                  Why did Moses think that every word he said came from god? It was because he didn't know consciously where his thoughts were coming from. He attributed them to an outside force. These ideas could not have come from him because he wasn't consciously working them out.

                  A musician or a writer will often heard saying that t he notes or the words just flow as if coming from outside themselves. Same thing. Our best ideas seem to come in a flash, as if they are gifts from out there. But they are from the subconscious.

                  Lets do a quick experiment. Without thinking too much about it, I want you to answer a rather simple math question.

                  If a ball and bat cost 1.10 and the bat is exactly one dollar more than the ball, how much is the ball?

                  Now it doesn't matter what the actual answer is so don't worry about getting it wrong.

                  The image you will likely get in your head will be that the ball is 10 cents. That, of course is wrong. But the subconscious will trow up that number in most people automatically. I think in tests done over 70 percent of physics students did what they were told and wrote the first thing that came to mind.

                  If you think about it you soon discover that 10 cents has to be wrong. But the conscious mind is lazy because it knows the subconscious will automatically give an answer. Even if that answer is not completely correct. it will be in t he ball park so to speak, and that's often good enough,

                  But if the subconscious is educated enough it will automatically wake the consciousness up and give urgency to the fact that deliberation is required. That's when the poor consciousness has work to do.

                  Mothers teaching their kids critical thinking in math seem to get the correct answer thrown at them almost right off the bat.

                  So is consciousness itself what is most important here? Or have we been missing the boat for the last few millennium?

                  Of course there is no real division between the conscious and the subconscious. They are aspects of the brain and it's function.

                  As for the writers of the bible, I have no doubt that they were philosophers of their time who were inspired by the idea of a god and felt that they were messengers of that god because they didn't realize that the messages were coming from their own minds. There is even a famous scientist of the early 1900s (who's name escapes me for the moment) who felt this way and wrote about it. The math was coming directly from god according to him, and he changed mathematics for ever  He was pioneer in trying to describe an ultimate order through math, only to discover that certainty would elide him for his entire life.

                  We now know he had discovered chaos theory, from which the simple becomes the complex through extraordinarily simple rules.

                  Then there was Pythagoras who also claimed his math came straight from god. He even developed a secret cult around it.

                  Lots to learn and lots to think about. Lots to educate the subconscious with. Just in case we need it.  wink
                  Even

                  .

    11. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
      Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If god knows everything there is no need to prey. God would just know what you need and want . Most Christians prey because they want to petition god and convince him to do their bidding. It;s rather useless in that regard.

      I wonder how many have preyed for world peace? Obviously god doesn't want it to happen, praying does not work, or there is no god. Take your pick.

      I tend to go with the third option.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting and funny slip of the pen there, Slarty.

        Some Christians prey on the weak because they make easy converts.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I loved the prey slip as well. It is funny that I, not too long ago, had the same "slip" with the word parish. Christianity does not prey. Christianity prays. It is a life "offered" not demanded. There is so much to consider in life. One never quenches his thirst for knowledge. I have taken my stance because: 1. I have been raised around it (the "favored" term seems to be indoctrinated). 2. I have seen it work and unfold for the better part of my life. Christians are not different than others. If you cut us, do we not bleed? RED, let me add here smile people are people. We all do wrong. We all have an issue with self. It is our nature. However, the spirit within us, works to create a "clean" heart. We can go to him with all of us. He will teach you how to deal with it for the rest of your days. If you don't want it, you are allowed to have it your way.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Children can be 'raised' to understand things without being indoctrinated.



            You're free to apply that to yourself or Christians, but not the rest of us. Thanks.



            Indoctrination would have people believe gods and spirits exist even though neither one has ever been shown to exist. Using them to support an argument would show being 'raised' was to not understand the world around them.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              This stuff has been shown to exist to me an many others throughout history. It takes faith to believe it, or anything else, for that matter. I see where your faith lies. Do you see mine? It just depends on the report that you believe. You are made in the image of God. You may decide what you want.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No, it hasn't, that is a false statement.



                That is a correct statement.



                That is another false statement. Others understand things and don't need to have faith in them.



                No, that is part of your confusion in that I don't need faith because I have understanding.



                Yes, and I see what's it done to you and how it causes you to behave dishonestly.



                I have no idea what you're referring.



                Your God is made in the image you've been indoctrinated to believe.



                At least, I make decisions based on understanding and not blind faith.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It seems that your "understanding" is quite finite when compared to the subject at hand. You have not been "shown" that no such God exists; yet you persist that he does not. I will never knock you for that. You have a right to your opinions. But you use the word liar to describe me? What kind of "bull" is that? smile you think that such a defaming word describes my character? So be it. Then, look into your recent past with me and find the lie. See, what has been "shown" to me is mine. You cannot call me a liar simply because i firmly believe that I have proof enough to back up my claims to myself. You mad??? Puzzling... Well, no it's not wink

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You, along with every other believer on the planet have shown us your God does not exist by making outrageously ridiculous claims that he does and then providing nothing but your faith as evidence.



                    And yet, you just did.



                    Did I? Where? Show me where I used the word "liar"?



                    I never once described your character.

                    Notice that your last two claims are false? Why would you make those claims when you know they're false? Why are being dishonest?



                    You firmly believe you have faith, but that isn't evidence of anything.

          2. jonnycomelately profile image86
            jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            genaea, I love the fact that, despite you and myself (and many others like me) are in total disagreement about some matters, we can still laugh together.    Let's keep it that way, it helps to lubricate our minds.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm with you smile

        2. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
          Slarty O'Brianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol... I got it right at least once. wink I pray that from now on the correct prey will be on my fingertips.

    12. youcanwin profile image37
      youcanwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Most of the prayers are offered in secret.

      To lead a congregation in prayer, sometimes we use a microphone.  If there is no microphone, then pray loudly.  This brings unity in prayer.  After the prayer all those who are in the congregation say "amen" that means they unitedly agree with the prayer offered.
      Thanks for your understanding.

    13. Iamsam profile image65
      Iamsamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      See Elijah’s Public Prayer
      (1 king 18:30-40)

      Answered public prayers like Elijah will glorify the Lord.

    14. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Because believer don't know everything. I don't know about the ones "shouting on microphone," that's a tiny slice of believers, but God said we should pray to Him. So we do.

    15. 60
      ikejrposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It all has to do with the individual. There is a time for everything and a persons motive plays a great part in this issue. When praying you have be in tune with what you are doing so some people are able to open their mouth to talk to God in their concentrations and others do it in quite. God knows everything but He also says we should make our request known. If I am really crying to God i don't worry about who hears me or not but there are people who just want to show that they can pray or they are soo righteous. That latter attitude is not blessed by God

    16. CrisSp profile image83
      CrisSpposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Because you simply have to verbalize it and make it even powerful. Just like in any other relationships, you can't be silent all the time and let the other person know how you feel without saying a word. And when you're overwhelmed with feelings you have to let it out or you'll explode. It is a gift that we have the power to express ourselves. Ask and you'll receive. Be grateful and say you're indeed grateful.

    17. Claire Evans profile image88
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's fellowship.

      1. calynbana profile image86
        calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I don't agree. After seeing your conversations with people I don't really want to have one with you, but I will say that it is not fellowship. It is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said to do. I have never come across an evangelical Christian with a microphone who was not playing the turn or burn card, or doing the dramatic exaggerated body movements. "AND THE LORD SAID".

        I live in Toronto so everytime I go downtown I see these people, and often converse with them. Let me tell you this, as a Christian I feel such burning frustration when I see them. I usually feel relieved when the cops come and get them. I honestly feel they are only doing harm to themselves and others.

        To sin is to miss the point. Most of the times I have come across evangelicals with microphones they seem to be missing the point.

        That is just my opinion. Perhaps you have come across different sorts than I have.

        1. Claire Evans profile image88
          Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well, if they use the burn card, it isn't fellowship.  It's a mission to convert people to Christianity using fear tactics.

          Word of advice: If you don't want to see my around then you ought to ignore me.  If everyone did, I'd be off these forums.  So maybe you folk should make a plan?

          1. calynbana profile image86
            calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't say I don't want to see you around Clair, I just don't want to have a discussion because you seem to be quite defensive with most people on the forums. I am not in the state of mind to have an argument today, especially with somebody who is quite opinionated(Not saying that is a bad thing, just an observation). I will not ignore anybody on these forums, ignoring is not very loving. I just wanted to point out that the OP is not describing fellowship. It is describing something altogether different, something that may or may not be what Christ wanted. I personally do not think it is something he would have wanted. Perhaps you think differently, that is fine.

            I think people are too quick to be defensive on these forums, remember it isn't about being right or wrong. It is a discussion about beliefs. It is always going to be a matter of opinion, and theory. Don't take things said on here too personally, we are all just faceless screen-names. When we take things too seriously we don't always show the love that Christ would want us to show.

            This is just a bunch of strangers talking about big ideas and thoughts, arguing and ridiculing each other. Funny thing is this is the internet, we can be whoever we want to be. There is no saying that these people are who they say they are, that the situations are real or not, if their beliefs are what they say they are or anything along those lines.

            I will admit I worded my previous comment to you badly, and it may have come across a little coldly. I am sorry about that. It is not how I meant it. I was trying to say I don't want a long discussion, that is all. Nothing personal.

            1. Claire Evans profile image88
              Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks, I appreciate your comment.  Perhaps if I see an argument about to ensue, I should just nip it in the bud else it goes on and on and gets nastier and nastier.

              I'm so eager to see Jesus for who He really is but I must not try to hard or else arguments ensue.

              We all have so much to learn.

              I needed to read your words!

              1. calynbana profile image86
                calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Glad they helped smile

                1. Claire Evans profile image88
                  Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You have no idea.

            2. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh no?

              1. calynbana profile image86
                calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Oh no what? I do not understand what you are trying to convey.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You said that you did not want to engage in a long discussion smile but it took YOU a long time to say that. Hit/run.

                  1. calynbana profile image86
                    calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That is not long to me :p that is actually really brief. I tend to get into ridiculous discussions.

                  2. calynbana profile image86
                    calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Also why are you trying to point fingers at me Genaea? I am not really sure why you started looking at my old posts I directed towards other people (who received my comments happily and actually thanked me for my comment btw) and picking out what you perceive to be issues.

                    What is it you want to say to me? I hope I am not coming across as defensive or offensive, I am just genuinely confused as to what you want from me.

        2. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Like right there! How do you say to someone, I don't wanna talk to you, but I will get MY point across. Is that fair? Love???

          1. calynbana profile image86
            calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Did you read the next couple exchanges between me and Clair?

            I recommend that you do before trying to judge me.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Of course, I read the next exchanges, I saw your "hit and run". I was not judging. I asked a question.

    18. grinnin1 profile image82
      grinnin1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Lutherans, Presbyterians and Episcopalians ask that same question all the time. Believers aren't one group of people, they are many. There are loud and boisterous churches, there are quiet ones, there are churches with extroverts and churches with introverts and every mix in between. Unfortunately, I think, what most people associate with Christianity because of the media and televangalists, are these tv preachers with strange hair, makeup, loudly yelling about Hell and shaking their finger. If that were Christianity, I wouldn't be one.

    19. Mahmo profile image60
      Mahmoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      jainismus,They do it because it teases and enrage the disbelievers or atheist !

    20. dianetrotter profile image81
      dianetrotterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Bible provides instruction on prayer, pray with out ceasing, etc.  Microphones are often necessary in corporate prayer.  our auditorium seats 5000 people.  We have a good audio/visual system which is needed.

    21. dove777 profile image61
      dove777posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God sees everything at once. Our idea of time is an illusion.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol

    22. tastybrain profile image60
      tastybrainposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Your question strikes to the heart of the true nature of religion, controlling minds. Prayer demeans the human spirit. It's intention is to subjugate the soul by daily self-humiliation. As children we desire independence, but are subject to the authority of our parents. Those who wish to control large populations would have little recourse to doing it (except by force of violence or the threat of it) if it weren't for religion. By convincing people that they are being watched and judged by an all-powerful and all knowing higher power (A Sky Daddy), clergy of all faiths are able to more effectively control the behavior of those who believe. This can have both positive and negative effects depending on the beliefs held and leader's motivations.

      Why do you think Pride is the cardinal sin? Because if you have enough respect for your own power of thought, then you can think for yourself and you don't need the authority of God to tell you what you should think and do. The bible says that God sees directly into the hearts and thoughts of everyone, so what truly is the point of making us supplicate him? The answer is simple: subjugation of the soul.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oooo, you said soul, duck! smile This post, though extremely well articulated, is so full of fire. Just what you, and those who follow that thinking, are supppsed to think. It is well with me. I am not converting or recruiting. I am telling my story. God is light for me in all this darkness. You can have whatever you like, i am a soul-bearing Christian. My bible says, as a man thinks in his heart, he is.
        So maybe that is what all the fighting is about, you have denied your souls. Zombie-like???

        1. tastybrain profile image60
          tastybrainposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm sure we define "soul" differently. I think of it more as something akin to consciousness which need not incorporate anything supernatural.

  2. Steve Orion profile image82
    Steve Orionposted 4 years ago

    Interesting question. I'd also like to know what believers think is the effect of prayer, and that if God has a plan for everything, then does he plan for you to pray to him and for him to answer or not answer said prayer?

    1. calynbana profile image86
      calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This is a common viewpoint, but I think that God answers all prayers. Sometimes He just answers with a flat out no.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Or 'not yet'.

      2. Philanthropy2012 profile image88
        Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah yeah what's the point of letting you pray if he already knows what you're going to pray for and already knows he's going to say no. What's the point of letting you pray for something he already knows you want and then give it to you, why doesn't he just give it to you before? Why does he need some sort of praise from creatures he himself created. Pathetic and petty attention seeking? Save some time for us, please, lord.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Again, at times, we don't know our own motivations. Praying aloud (in your head) is required because you need to hear your own desires, and thoughts. God does the rest when faith is present. He blesses " saints" as well as sinners.

        2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
          HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The point, the whole point, is that you have a choice. You have your own mind. You can ask for His help, or don't. Acknowledge He's there, or don't. He knows your heart, knows you better than you know yourself, but He actually gave you your own mind that is able to create. He made you a creator, "like God, knowing good and evil".

          Like Abraham and Isaac on the mountain. Like bringing the animals to Adam to "see what he would call them". Until you create something, like a prayer, a decision, a name of an animal, an action, He doesn't know because it doesn't exist. It's not 'of' Him. It's 'of' us.

          That's the gift He gave us and life is the means in which He's teaching us how to wield our gift, because it's powerful. Dangerous. Destructive. But without it we wouldn't have a rover on Mars.

          1. Philanthropy2012 profile image88
            Philanthropy2012posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Haha the point, the whole point, is that he already knew exactly what you would do before he created you in such a way that you would do it making him petty , hateful and evil .

            1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
              HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Seeing it that way is your choice too. He could have not given us this capability that gives us the ability to create music and art and literature and architecture and civilizations and mars rovers. We could have continued to live like hunter-gatherer/horticultural humans have, and still do in some places, for tens of thousands of years. But what would be the point of that?

            2. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Takes one to know one! smile God is not swayed by your disbelief. In my opinion, you breathe because if him. He made you like you are?

      3. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        We have tens of thousands of "NO" every single day. That is a whole lot more than just "Sometimes"

        1. calynbana profile image86
          calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Prayer isn't about simply asking for whatever you want, it is about relationship. If I had a relationship with a parent and all I did was ask for things that I wanted, and often not things that I needed or would benefit me or others then I would probably not get many of the things I was asking for.

          God is not a genie, He is the Creator, He will answer as He sees fit for the greater Good. The problem is we see the micro issues, and not the macro issues. Now tell me, is the unequal share of money and resources God's fault or ours?

          Starving children in the East and obese children in the West. God's fault or ours? He gave us more than enough resources, and we screwed up. And continue to screw up.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So, when you're hungry, you don't ask parents for food because it's not something you need or will benefit?



            And, it would appear that the "greater Good" is where children starve to death by the tens of thousands every day so that Christians can have their relationship with Jesus.



            Absolutely, it is God's fault.



            What does that have to do with children who are starving to death and who pray to Jesus for food so they don't starve to death?

            Your argument fails because there are resources for a number of things that Christians pray for and state emphatically Jesus answered their prayers.

            1. calynbana profile image86
              calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well you seem to think death is a bad things. What do you think death is?

      4. tastybrain profile image60
        tastybrainposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And believers accuse evolutionists of believing in "chance." Confirmation bias, ever heard of it?

    2. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Prayer helps the one praying. It is the privelege of talking to the creator. Jesus taught us how to pray. God's will is ultimate and we should want that most of all. However, we are able to tell the Lord what we want as well. The bible shows us that our will does not work, but sometimes he allows us to see for ourselves. His plan does make allowances for his children. Yes, he knows what you need before you even ask.

      1. Steve Orion profile image82
        Steve Orionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So, do our prayers have any sort of effect? You say it helps the one who prays? So is God ever influenced by a prayer, or is he is or isn't, does he know he would or wouldn't?

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God is influenced by prayer. His infinite wisdom allows for deviation. I do believe that one biblical prayer stopped the rain for years.
          God knows everything. He does not think as we do. He sees the entire picture. As we say in my neck of the woods, one monkey don't stop no show smile. His plan is carried out. He knows how to give us what we want without denting his plan.

        2. ComfortB profile image83
          ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, God want us to communicate out needs. Not that he doesn't know what we need, but handing it to us on a whim doesn't help us.

          Praying and asking - It helps the one who prays (the prayer) because asking and receiving strenghtens ones faith.

          God said, "Ask, and it shall be given unto you.."

          Even we humans (who are made in God's image) do the same with our children. There a lot more appreciation on the part of the children when they ask of us and then receive than when we just go out of our way to give them everything. That's when things are taken for granted.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, parents will usually feed their children when they ask for food. Are those children taking their parents for granted?

    3. 60
      ikejrposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Prayer is a little more than just asking for things. It a way to thank God for all he does and also for us to avail ourselves to listen to God speaking to us and giving us direction. God has a plan but as human beings we need to look for God to reveal His plan to us.

    4. Claire Evans profile image88
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The effect of prayer makes God reveal His plan for you.  When we aren't sure of something or what to do, we pray.  Then whatever happens is God's will.  Sometimes it will be accompanied by suffering but to those who love God, that suffering has a purpose.

  3. calynbana profile image86
    calynbanaposted 4 years ago

    That is simple, they pray to Him because he told them to. God wants His people to have a relationship with Him. That means talking to Him.

    It is like when a parent knows their child wants something, and they wait until the child asks until they give it to them.

    Praying loudly or silently doesn't make a difference, but God does want us to pray, with people and by ourselves.

    1. Steve Orion profile image82
      Steve Orionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well, the thing about that analogy is that, in most cases, the kid knows that their parent exists and they are easily communicated with. Not so, many would say, with any sort of creator.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        God's children know that he is there.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Tens of thousands of small dead bodies every day would not agree with you, there.

          1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
            HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Of course not. They're dead bodies. The energy that animated those bodies is gone. They can't agree or disagree with anything.

            1. jacharless profile image82
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol Awesome!

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough, I probably should have worded that differently for those who are unable to read between the lines.

              1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
                HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Actually, I was trying to address the message between your lines with a message between my lines. I saw yours. Did you see mine?

                1. tastybrain profile image60
                  tastybrainposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sometimes the message between the lines is just white space....

          2. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There are many bodies of all sizes everywhere, dead. Some of us are dead too. Nevertheless, God's children know he is there.

            1. jacharless profile image82
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yip, tons know he is there and are still dying -literally, not metaphorically, regardless of the term spiritual or physic. Makes you wonder what is not correct with everyone who does know he is there and why they do not want to pass from death to life -literally, not metaphorically, spirit, brain and body.

              James.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Now you know that some of us are slow to your game. smile slow it down some. I really "literally" don't know what you said.

                1. jacharless profile image82
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Then you literally need to slow down, because I said it plainly.
                  You are all dieing -by Choice. Literally by choice and the choices you think about and believe you need to make.You, meaning the non and believing, who continue to play "the game" called Reason, called good-evil. To entertain yourselves while the game goes on: you evoke names, text, perfected memorized prayers -dictations, err, demands really.  And then have the audacity -the nerve on both sides to call it faith or a lack of faith.

                  Ha! Most would not recognize faith if it came up, spit in their face and called them raka! Why? Foremost because their faith is fear.
                  Secondly, their faith is textual memorization and good-holyghost-preachin.
                  Lastly, because faith requires logic, not reason.
                  Faith requires dedication of action, not books and blabber {prayer}.
                  Faith demands practicality, start to finish follow through of just one thing: manifesting eternal life in each one.

                  There, slowed down enough for ya? smile

                  And to affirm is, Disappearinghead reiterates:
                  Huzzah! +Infinity. Could not have said this any better.
                  James

                  1. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh yeah... You have made it to the higher plane of reason, or logic, or something. Carry on.

                  2. Disappearinghead profile image88
                    Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    There is a place of being that is way beyond memorised text, beyond recited prayer, beyond creeds and doctrines, beyond man made efforts to have that "relationship", beyond trains of thought, where one is just naturally supernatural perhaps. A place where the conclusion of a thought arrives before the thought process is complete. A place where faith is in-built confidence that needs no support from memorised text or the stories of others. Deepak Chopra calls it God consciousness I think, though I haven't finished his book yet. A place beyond human effort where there is unity with our Father. I have glimpsed it, but thus far it is still of of reach.

                  3. tastybrain profile image60
                    tastybrainposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I disagree with your characterization of Faith. Faith is credulity, plain and simple. It does not require logic; it rejects it.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, tens of thousands of children's bodies stacked up each day are irrelevant to you?

              1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
                Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                A troubled Man. Is it your excuse not to believe in God?  I hope I am not hard on you. But you did not take time to come to right conclusions.  The Word of God is most powerful force in the universe when dressed in the faith.  But here is problem, man rejected His Word. Man changed the faith to doubt, altered His Word. What we can expect?  God always warned man with all consequences.  I am crying when children get seriously sick, being physician. I had children now grown up.  The sin of unbelief releases  curse including diseases and death into 3-4 generation.  Face with it here is devil, here is sin and wicked man and you ask such a question?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I need no excuses to not accept your God.



                  Yet, another believer justifying the deaths of children with their religious fantasies. I suppose that makes it very easy to not be concerned and ignore their plights, to create false premises so you don't have to do anything and blame everything on men so you can continue to worship and praise your god.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And, then the child dies of starvation because it didn't receive the morsel of food prayed for... tens of thousands of children experience this wonderful talk with God and the resulting starvation every single day.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        For the past 40 something years combined I have watched and listened to news about tens of thousands of starving children in several places in the world. I have watched and witnessed situations where millions, sometimes billions of dollars worth of food donated by nations have been diverted by corrupt government interests and sold to those who don't need it for personal gain.

        Those children could have been given hope and aid, but the wickedness of greedy, heartless, Godless people caused them to lose hope and miss the opportunity to be fed.

        So, like you rightly said, and I quote, yes "then the child dies of starvation because it didn't receive the morsel of food prayed for", not because God doesn't answer prayer. Because He does. But because the heart of men is desperately wicked. And we are constantly fighting against the good that God wants to do through us.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How does that relate to the United States, for example, where children starve to death daily but no such corrupt governments are diverting food donations. That doesn't even explain the other countries in the world where children starve and food is not being diverted.

          Of course, you're free to produce the evidence children starve to death because of corrupt governments diverting food?



          Ah, so it's the fault of "Godless people" now, in other words, all those people who don't share YOUR beliefs.



          Yes, I'm sure that's what you want others to believe, make up anything to defend your God.

          1. ComfortB profile image83
            ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Greed, Wickedness, and Selfishness on the part of man. That's your answer right there.

            You want to talk about the fact that there are children starving right here in the United States? I have seen people on Public Assistance eating far better than those of us who are struggling to make a living. Children starve not because they have to, but because they are unfortunate enough to fall in the hands of irresponsible parents who are druggist. Parents that who rather have a beer or a pack of cigarette than put meal on the table for their children. Parents that hoard food money and every tangible thing they could lay their hands on to buy drugs, alcohol and everything else than food.

            I've seen it all. DFas taking kids away from parents who can't even take care of themselves, to to talk of taking care of their kids. Kids forced to eat from scraps because mama or dada is knocked off from his alcohol or MJ.

            So please don't blame God for the demise of a society that has turned so selfish and callous, on one hand we have the spoiled rich in HolyWood and right down the road you have those who don't even know where there next meal is coming from.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Speaking as a person who has visited our nation's capital during the Bush reign; right across the street from the White House is desolation. That so puzzled me.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Your claim, then, is that God wished to answer the childrens prayer for food but evil men thwarted His wishes?

          That's certainly a different take on the omnipotence of God!

          1. 60
            ikejrposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It is not but God give us free will to choose and we may oral not choose His way. He uses us who avail ourselves

      2. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
        Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        TM. Starvation is result of socialization of nations. I did live in it.  The hunger will become worse.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Doesn't socialization hold a "spread the wealth" type position? If so, how could that be responsible for hunger?

          1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
            Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Genaea, thanks for question. Socialism is materialistic system and it is like bad religion, talking and doing differently.  On the first place there is distribution of wealth. But they say about rich. If is false. Socialism make all equal. It means equally poor to control. My dad was regular carpenter and save money  perhaps $2000 dollars value (but I am not sure about amount). He did save it for worse time, wedding of my sis. or whatever. Suddenly money were changed I mean printed different money. First thousand crowns they  changed to ration 5:1, over 50:1 then up the same. People lost all money. The received only for one month to live.  My dead was saving for nothing. All money gone. They took all lands and made coop. All lost properties. Nobody want to go and work for few cents per hr. There was shortage of everything. There was concern of loosing money again it happened twice.  Then my stepmother when rumor came and bought what ever was available and not needed. For example she bought second baking stove she did not need... There were lines on everything sometime one has to go at 4 am to get coal for heating. There was shortage of medicine and so on. [sorry for my English].

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I follow you and I understand. Hmmm, that system sounds a lot like communism. From T.V. Canada runs somewhat of a socialist government. Oh to have universal healthcare... Do socialism and communism overlap? How are they different. Are you from Russia?

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sure, make up any excuse you want.

    3. ElSeductor profile image61
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Lord's prayer is "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed....".  Why do people go on and on with "Dear Lord, please do this and that and this and that.."?

      Didn't Jesus say to only pray the "Our Father"?

      R

      1. dianetrotter profile image81
        dianetrotterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That is an interesting point R!

      2. Claire Evans profile image88
        Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's wrong to say, "Dear Lord, please do this and that..."

        The Lord's Prayer says, "Thy (God) will be done..."  His will and our will can conflict with one another.  However, God's will ought to be our will.

  4. lhale profile image78
    lhaleposted 4 years ago

    In Matthew 6:6 Christ tells believers to go into an inner room,and pray to the Father in secret. But believers, being human, as are people of all religions, rarely do as they are told.

  5. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    It is strange. I think, the instructions to believers was simply to pray by themselves and the prayer given had nothing to do with asking for anything for themselves; other than some daily bread, forgiveness in line with their attitude toward other sinners and to help them stay away from temptation.

    I guess the Christians decided that wasn't good enough. Maybe they think if they shout very loudly it will remind their gods they they are extra special?

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God says who qualifies as extra special. I have heard the "loud" prayers. I spent all of my formative years (as well as not so formative) in church. It gets ridiculous! Mostly for show, and God deals with that as well. Jesus gave us the ultimate all-encompassing prayer. However, his prayer on the cross was totally different. We are admonished to ask God for guidance on ALL issues. It takes a constant prayer life. Pray without ceasing is one of the directives.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen!!

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You know me. I think everyone is extra special. smile

        But, it all comes down to wearing religion on your coat sleeve. The more vocal anyone is, it comes off more as 'look at me, look at me' than a relationship with anything.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I can see what you mean. However, Jesus told his followers to tell everyone. We have instructions on how. We are to wear Christ on our sleeve. Our lights should shine brightly. Look at me, is another story. Some just really overdo it with religiosity to the max. We are humans first; then spiritual. None of us walk on clouds or live in bubbles. God sees the heart. Oh, and you think everyone is special essep me sad now go on and get your red marker, I made a mi-stake smile

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What may be thought on a higher plane has nothing to do with our petty disagreements. We all make mistakes, we are all perceived  by others as making mistakes (whether we have or not).

            I assume, if our consciousness lives on after death, we'll all have a hearty laugh at what we considered to be so important that it was worth wasting time disagreeing on

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yep

          2. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That would make sense that Jesus is far too busy organizing His followers to spread the Gospel rather than taking the time to feed starving children. Go Jesus!

            1. calynbana profile image86
              calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He already provided the food. We took it away, store it away, gorge ourselves on it. Then point at God when people are starving because they cannot access our hoarded resources. It is His fault, it is His fault. It isn't anything that I did. Sounds like a child complaining. But like I teach the children in my class, instead of pointing fingers and casting blame, we need to take steps to fix the problem. The starving children children bother you? Good, it should it means you have a heart. Now do something about it instead of blaming it on God. Maybe you will meet God while you are reaching out to these communities.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                God has then failed in his attempt to feed us all. He should have known that Christians would hoard food away and gorge themselves leaving children to starve to death and created of system of food distribution.



                Yes, children are complaining, but they wind up dying soon for lack of food.



                One of the problems we should fix is to not have Christians tell us prayer works when it obviously doesn't because it only makes those Christians look incredibly selfish.



                Okay, let's all pray to God to fix the problem, isn't that what prayers are supposed to achieve? Why would anyone in the world ever pray for anything other than feeding starving children. If they did pray for something other than that, they are being totally selfish.

                1. calynbana profile image86
                  calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We are supposed to pray, we are also supposed to act. The Bible does not say sit back in comfort and pray. It says pray and do something. Teach people, help people, feed people. There are plenty of Christians who do not do anything to help, there are plenty of atheists who are the same.

                  Likewise there are plenty of every group that does help, that are not afraid to help. Jesus taught that we must love other people, and that we should not have more than our fair share if there are those that need what we have in excess. So we need to pray, and we need to act. But it isn't about asking God to fix all our problems for us, as I said he isn't a genie. We can ask what He wants us to do, and then we can do it.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Why waste time praying then? Use that time to do something instead.



                    We can do things on our own entirely, which would make more sense considering whatever God has told you to do has failed miserably.

            2. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
              HeadlyvonNogginposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The priority was clearly the life after this one. The eternal one. Not the one that lasts a handful of decades and where everything eventually dies and ends up on the other side anyway. There's supposed to be struggle and pain and pleasure and joy in this life. What point would there be to create this entire planet, all life on it, then create us with the capability to behave however we choose, if he's just going to come and solve all of the problems that we learn from. If God/Jesus came here and 'nerfed' the world, what would be the whole point of life? Just to eat, sleep, age, die?

            3. ComfortB profile image83
              ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              @ A Troubled Man - How many of those starving children have you fed? This is really not about the starving children, is it?

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                A lot more than Jesus. How many has He fed?

            4. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You do not see why you wear troubled as your name. Go Jesus? Man is starving those children, and they will pay eventually. God is being God. It is not mandatory that you believe. God's plan goes forth.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Please do not focus on me personally or insult me personally through my userid or I will report you.



                God's plan obviously involves starving children to death for some reason, God is being God and refusing to feed them. If men were at fault, why doesn't God fix the problem instead of letting those children die? What kind of plan is that?

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  A really really really callous plan.

                  It's the Epicurean question:

                  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

                  There has not been a satisfactory reply yet in more than two millennium.

                  1. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    God is more than willing and more than capable of doing anything. But he usually allows us to do our own work. Love your brother as you love yourself. That is an immense request. I love myself. I feed me, clothe me, bathe me, excuse my faults, defend myself. It is our job. We will answer for what we don't do also. This is only a test. Gonna be too late when the "teacher" calls, "Put your pencils down".  It is what it is. We cannot change it. God rules.

                  2. calynbana profile image86
                    calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    http://www.bethinking.org/suffering/adv … f-evil.htm

                    Really interesting response to the riddle. One of my favs.

                2. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not trying to insult you by using your userid. Please do not report me A Troubled Man. Is there anything not so offensive that I may call you? Nevermind, no need. However, when children die, they go to God. Not such a bad thing. The Lord does not promise us life, unless we follow him. He does promise death. We all must do it. It is sad that with so many riches here that it happens, but again, God is not at fault. We are. We can feed them. We sit back and watch them die. God asked us to feed the hungry and shelter those outdoors. But do we listen???

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm sure you believe that, which evidently allows you to dissociate yourself from the cause of their untimely deaths. Gosh, that was easy. No responsibility, no reason to do anything, let alone even giving it any thought. How convenient.



                    Some do listen and act, while others pray to justify their own selfish needs.

    2. calynbana profile image86
      calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think it is necessary to shout prayers, it never says to do so in the Bible. Jesus does say to pray by yourself, but He also says to pray in a community setting with other believers. He said to pray always, pray continually. It makes sense, prayer is simply talking to God. It isn't about asking Him for things. It is about building your relationship with Him, you can ask for things, doesn't mean you will get them. You can yell at Him in anger, He wants you to bring your emotions to Him. You can pray silently by yourself. It doesn't matter how you talk to Him. What matters is that you talk to HIM. Directly.

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Can you state the verse where Jesus said these things about praying together and continuously? I'm not aware of that one.

      2. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Could you please tell me where Jesus said to pray in a community setting? I missed that one sad

      3. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I believe he meant communal prayer as in James 5:14 -  "Is any sick among you? let him call to him the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;"

  6. ComfortB profile image83
    ComfortBposted 4 years ago

    "to go into an inner room,and pray to the Father in secret" is an expression that means, let your prayer be between you and your heavenly father. It doesn't mean you literally have to find a room to pray.

    A believer should pray always, in the car while driving (as long as you keep your eye on the road), in the kitchen, while cooking. At school before an exam ( a silent heartfelt prayer, of course). At work. I know christian surgeons who whispers a prayer for God to guide their hands as they perform surgery.

    The idea of going into a room to pray is only applicable and practical if there's a room in sight. Otherwise, the scriptures encourages every believer to pray without ceasing (always) anywhere, anytime.

    1. lhale profile image78
      lhaleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely true. I was just quoting the scripture to emphasize that Christ Himself did not ask us to shout our prayers.

    2. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I believe that you are only half-right. Jesus gave the admonishment to pray in secret after speaking about the "pride-filled, glory-seeking" prayers of those shouters. He does not want us putting on a show for men. God is infinite! He gets all glory and he then will raise you up. We must have a relationship with the father. Remember, Jesus left his crew to pray before he was crucified. He did not form a prayer link and go to wailin' and moanin' and cryin'.

      1. ComfortB profile image83
        ComfortBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        When Jesus was at the tomb of Lazarus, He prayed, and publicly. He even wept. Some observing today may have said that was showmanship.

        At the Garden of Gethsmane, He prayed, groaned, moaned, cried. As He was about to carry out the greatest transaction ever made. The Full payment of our sins with His precious redeeming blood, that is. His crew was there, not holding His hands, but for support (in their own way).

        At the mount, during his sermon and before feeding the 5000, He also prayed publicly. Yet, some frown today at some christians who dare to pray on their meal at a public restaurant before they eat.

        A few weeks ago, a couple of us believers held hands together in an hospital room to pray for the husband of another believer, right before he was wheeled into surgery. The prognosis wasn't good, but we agreed in prayer for God's divine intervention. The nurses were going back and forth while we prayed. It wasn't our intention to make it public. It was a spur of the moment prayer request. And it does happen sometimes.

        Our God searches the hearts and the motives.

        There are those who do it to seek their own glory, but we have to be very careful that we don't go around judging everyones motive.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          For sure, judgment is God's. Prayer is private. Jesus prayed alone in the garden while his crew disobeyed him and went to sleep, right??? At Lazarus' tomb, he stated why he publically prayed, as if this was NOT a normal thing. Also once he broke the bread he looked up and blessed them, says nothing about prayer. People who pray over their food are also "showing" that they are "holy" for the public. Have you ever noticed one who will interrupt your conversation to stop the presses to pray? God knows the heart's intent. He decides. But people who are "real" holy crack me up.

    3. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
      Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yea, eyes are for driving and mouth for praying, cool.

  7. A Lucid Nightmare profile image61
    A Lucid Nightmareposted 4 years ago via iphone

    What we know as God is simply how we perceive the universe around us. It's all interconnected. Prayer is just an emission of a frequency to which the the universe or "God" can and will answer.

  8. A Lucid Nightmare profile image61
    A Lucid Nightmareposted 4 years ago via iphone

    What we know as God is simply how we perceive the universe around us. It's all interconnected. Prayer is just an emission of a frequency to which the the universe or "God" can and will answer.

  9. chatpilot profile image76
    chatpilotposted 4 years ago

    God is a myth! He is as fake as unicorns and fairies and praying to him or any other god is a waste of time.

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So we have another NO. That's ok. Praying is not required for you.

  10. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 4 years ago

    Why do some pray loudly in public places or even into microphones?

    I have always felt that such "prayers" are actually praying to their human audience and really saying either "Acknowledge my Godliness and Greatness" or "Grease my palm".

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.

  11. aware profile image70
    awareposted 4 years ago

    see?
    no storyline !

  12. seajon profile image74
    seajonposted 4 years ago

    It is just their way, God already knows what they are praying.

  13. 0
    MundaneMondaysposted 4 years ago

    let me say this...a lot of guys you see on TV ? are fakes..they do this just for money, power and to be seen...i myself hold my beliefs at a distance from any and everyone. ALl that yelling and stuff id unecessary ..simply crying out to god is good ...but that other bull ? is strictly "showmanship"

  14. Raitu Disong profile image60
    Raitu Disongposted 4 years ago

    There is time for everything,..

  15. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    God is not offended by a little name calling. He will walk with you the extra mile or 100.

  16. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    What the...? I was just sitting here, and all of a sudden. Yelling. Occult? Earnest hub? Why is that so offensive? Should I be mad or something?

    1. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ernest is a fellow hubber who passed away recently.  He was adamantly anti-religion, but he was a good man and much beloved by many of us here.  A good number of hubbers showed their true colors by saying a lot of nasty things about him when he passed on.  Apparently, there are those who continue to do so.  I thought very highly of Ernest, thought I disagreed with him vehemently on many things. 

      Ganging up on any hubber is wrong, whether one agrees with that person or not.  To attempt to then insult him by disrespecting the memory of another who has passed on is despicable, imho.

      No yelling.  Simply stating an opinion.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Now, I understand. Thanks

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Anytime. 

          smile

  17. Darrell Roberts profile image79
    Darrell Robertsposted 4 years ago

    I may be excitement! smile

  18. darkland profile image60
    darklandposted 4 years ago

    The problem is we think as man thinks and then try to impose that morality on God.  Jesus said "God is the God of the living not the dead" to God everyone is alive and He knows each of us.  I don't think we have to worry about each others salvation but we need to help each other as best we can because it's just the right thing to do.
    To the nonbelievers: your points are of course valid but you are thinking outside your selves.  You are looking for proof in the world and fretting because God doesn't seem to be there, in essence you are worrying about everyone else.  It's not selfish to let God be God and to let Him worry about His children. Each of us has to ponder the question of God within ourselves.  The bible helps in this search but it is truly between you and Him.  For instance- if an evangelist is corrupt but his preaching helps a listener than God has sent that message to the listener and the evangelist still suffers for his corruption by not seeing the value of his own words.  If you look for God in your heart first, you will begin rightly and won't have to be worried about propaganda or being mislead.

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Is God in your heart if you don't allow him in?

      1. darkland profile image60
        darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, I think life isn't possible without God, besides he is all powerful so I don't think you can really keep Him from doing anything he wishes.  That not withstanding, I think that God is always with us and ready for us to turn to Him. I know at my most difficult times when faith was the hardest for me to find, He was always there supporting me when I couldn't support myself

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God is wonderful, yes. But he promised us that he would not make us say yes to his will. We have a choice. Life IS impossible without God. Death is not. We may choose to "die".

          1. darkland profile image60
            darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            True, but I think it's more like a child/parent relationship, We can't demand our children love us but that doesn't mean that we would ever not sustain them or love them.  If we hate God it's not because He's given us a reason to. To live without God is death, a worse one then any physical death could be, but I don't think even in death we are really without him.  We are just having a nightmare and He is still holding us and waiting for us to awake.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I cannot argue with that. I feel differently though. At one point, Jesus said, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" is it really so hard to believe that the father is NOT always with us? Jesus had done nothing wrong either. The bible says that we would be without God when we Ultimately decide that we don't want him.

              1. darkland profile image60
                darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But he wasn't really forsaken was he? He needed to make his final step to be resurrected. For a moment he felt that God had left him and I think maybe it was worse for him than all the things the Romans and Jews had done to him, and they had done pretty much all they could. God is infinite where would we go to be without him?

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  He was quoting scripture. Read Psalm 22 and get you'll goosebumps!

                  1. darkland profile image60
                    darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, I know Suzie, I've just resolved not to quote the Bible as so many here are not familiar with it. I really love that one though so I'm glad you mentioned it. It's absolutely perfect.

                2. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I like your insight on that matter. Jesus was never forsaken. He wanted the will of the father. But what happens when we don't want God's will?

                  1. darkland profile image60
                    darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If one way leads to danger and despair and the other leads to life and happiness, what way is wise.  God's Will is always to bless us, not always the easiest way but always the best.  If we resist God's Will we are actually acting against what's best for us, what can we expect to happen?

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And yet, there are many very happy people, millions, living happy lives without any gods. Go figure! smile

  19. chatpilot profile image76
    chatpilotposted 4 years ago

    The simple answer: God, If he existed and revealed himself through the scriptures has shown that he is a self absorbed megalomaniac who loves to hear how great and wonderful he is aloud. He loves for his worshipers to grovel and bow down in obeisance before him as they proclaim publicly that he is a whole bunch of things that the scriptures say. But his deeds as described in the scriptures are the acts not of a loving god or creator but of a tyrant.

    1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
      KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      My goodness me, there are communists as thick as fleas on this venue. The cold war is not over, MR. Reagan. Good luck in eternity, comrade.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Back from making jokes about dead hubbers already? What a shame.

        1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
          KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hubbers never die, they just blather away.

      2. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So, disbelief in God equates to communism? Or, did you simply fail to think before you posted that.

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's all one big jumbled mess in certain minds tongue anyone who doesn't believe in god is obviously a communist foreign agent who wants to destroy America tongue

          1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
            KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I quote, "Only a fool says in his heart that there is no God." 

            Time will surely tell. It is running short. You will not forget this word. Seek God's mercy while it is still available.

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Man Christians have been telling us the end is nigh for millenniums, there is a bearded nut who hangs out on my street and reminds me regularly when he isn't just gibbering unintelligibly. The repent or thou shalt suffer scared me stiff as a kid but it doesn't wash anymore tongue

        2. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
          KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not always, and I thought it through thoroughly.

          I am well acquainted with many atheists. They are not so keen to launch such bodacious, aggressive, offensive, demeaning attacks on the belief of others. It probably has to do with the fact that they are Americans who believe in freedom of religion and resect the beliefs of others. This is old school communist tripe. Only communists have enough of their reprobate souls invested in evil to believe that it is good or even honorable to blaspheme.

          You aren't fooling anyone with your masquerade. Now, go find something of good use for your time. Feed some hungry children, or visit the retirement home. You are wasting your breath here. This is one big circle ______ .

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Not sure what masquerade I'm involved in and I'm not sure what word goes into the blank, but the internet gives people courage to go beyond what the bounds of what would be considered polite in a face to face exchange.

            Accusing an opposing view of communism simply because you don't like the view is wasting your breath and making you appear foolish. You should take your own advice.

            1. chatpilot profile image76
              chatpilotposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I agree, theists who equate atheism with communism is just an outward expression of their ignorance about what atheism is and what it means to be an atheist. Theists are good at pointing fingers and judging others who oppose their views and beliefs but playing the blame game does nothing for the arguments under discussion.

              Christianity and Islam are not blameless and their history is filled with blood and tyranny's formed under the guise of defending the faith (crusades and other religious wars). I know that I am not a communist nor do I support communist agendas I am an American who does not believe that there is sufficient empirical or objective evidence to support a belief in God or gods of any kind.

              1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
                Vladimir Uhriposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                chatpilot, good for you we have freedom of choice. But do you know how astronomical  number of things we believe and we cannot see or prove?
                If one lives and believe only in material world, cannot see or understand spiritual.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  uhhh not very many... varying wildly depending on the actual person of course.

                2. chatpilot profile image76
                  chatpilotposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Vladimir, but I gave God a try and was an evangelist for 4 years and found in the long run that it was not for me. I've been on the theistic side of things and therefore understand your perspective.

                  1. arbitrarycurls profile image78
                    arbitrarycurlsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm curious of what made you 'give God a try', what happened during those 4 years that you did, and how you were able to transition afterward.

                  2. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                    KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hello? You were a not a real evangelist. Real evangelists are tried.

              2. darkland profile image60
                darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I respect that Chat.  It's my hope for you that you might see what I do but I want you to know it's for me and many other Christians just a sincere wish of good will and I would never attempt to convert someone who is happy where they are.  From my perspective it's between you and God, I have to believe He'll do the right thing for you just like I believe He's doing the right thing for me

                1. chatpilot profile image76
                  chatpilotposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks darkland, but it will take a miracle to reconvert me to Christ. I just don't find any good reason to believe in God nor need him or it in my life. I am a happy and content atheist and have no problem with others choosing what they wish to believe. I only have a problem when they try to force those beliefs on me not just through proselytizing but through trying to influence laws that support their theistic views on morality for example.

                  1. darkland profile image60
                    darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I hear ya' brother! But it is a miracle business so I hope you won't mind if I hold a little hope for you.

    2. garage-remotes profile image60
      garage-remotesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      with a description like that, you could very well be writing about my 16lb cat. :-)

      1. darkland profile image60
        darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        actually I have a 32 pound cat, but I'm not sure to whom your comment was directed

  20. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    For the record, i know plenty parents that would NOT sustain disobediently defiant children. My own son better get his crap together.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Are those parents believers, too?



      Funny how I keep hearing about believers children who are out of control, defiant, disobedient, etc. Perhaps, they are rebelling against their religious indoctrinations? smile

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Whatever the case, he will not live in my house, his way, this house is not big enough. If you look long enough you will realize that there are plenty of things wrong within your own system of things. There is much absurdity in your line of thinking for one, but you have the same opinion about me. Once we are done pointing out eachother's "flaws" those children remain hungry. Any new ideas on how to feed them??? Or are you still waiting on the "imaginary/powerless" So-called God to do it???

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, so he is rebelling against your attempts to indoctrinate him and you will see fit to kick him out because your faith is far more important than your own flesh and blood.

          All you offer is more evidence to show just how dangerous religions can be and how they make good people do bad things.

          1. umbertoobrian profile image60
            umbertoobrianposted 4 years ago in reply to this



            This is not anymore proof that religion is any more problematic in the parent/child dynamic than unionism, language, culture, sexuality or sobriety are.  How many parents have sought to subjugate their child to their will when future educational plans are the issue?  Or employment choices?  I am sure that union steel workers have, at least some time int he last 100 years, had many bitter arguments with sons who would rather sing or dance than wear a hard hat.

            Intergenerational conflict is natural and sometimes religion is the medium not the message.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Now why couldn't he come to that??? I think I know, but...

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Perhaps there are a few parents who subjugate their children, but that doesn't necessarily mean those children are being indoctrinated. Arguments are not equivalent to indoctrination, quite the opposite actually.

              1. umbertoobrian profile image60
                umbertoobrianposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Obviously not a dancer in a Union Iron Worker household.

          2. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Have you no sense of courtesy? Now you attempt ass-uming? Didn't listen to that advice either??? My son's issues are not of a spiritual nature, though prayer works.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Don't let anyone second guess a life they have no understanding of, or any desire to understand. Raising kids is hard and every situation unique. We all do the best we can.

              I hope everything works out for you. Even the best kids can be trying.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks, Emile. I am almost positive that my own mother received that message when I was 16 smile

                1. darkland profile image60
                  darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm just heading into those years and I'm not sure I'm equal to the test, but we know they are just stretching their wings, like all of us did.  I had an old teacher that said, "you can't teach a teenager anything all you can do is try to hold them together until they get over it"....40 years of experience talking there. No doubt he will be as fine a man as you could hope for, if you don't kill him first

                  1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                    Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    My Mama said you are the smartest that you'll ever be for the rest of your life is when you are 18.

                  2. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    wink Dead sounds good! smile we all went there, right? He will be fine, yes. Otherwise, check the news! Lol

              2. Ipeoney profile image84
                Ipeoneyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I bet raising kids these days is a lot different than raising kids 70 years ago. Too much have changed. .. @jainismus - The question at the top - If God knows everything? why people shout pray? Maybe the answer is .. so the deaf can hear.. Seriously those are group praying and using microphones, but if you just want to pray by yourself you don't even have to make a sound.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I know, that's what I've been saying.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hi, you said that he rebelled against indoctrination. No, he rbels agsinst curfew.

  21. ihayaydin profile image60
    ihayaydinposted 4 years ago

    it is definitely true that God knows eveything, God is closer to you even than yourself,  one aim of the praying is to thank for everything that we have in this mortal life and to have goodlife afterdeath. we like to chat with our beloved friends,right? we share our feelings,bad and good experiences with them and we feel relax after that, noone can  feel this indefinable taste without doing it..praying loudly or silently is not important, but the sincerity is. God wants people to talk to him and to know that they have a creator, therefore; although God knows everything, people pray,the more you pray,the more you will be close to God..it is your benefit to pray,God doesnt need your praying..

  22. Jerry Hulse profile image76
    Jerry Hulseposted 4 years ago

    I think some try to convince themselves like the false prophets of Elijah who thought cutting themselves would get their god's attention. I not only have his attention but I always have his favor because of his unconditional love for me in accepting his son and his atonement to bring me back into his fellowship. Check out and purchase my books on Amazon which are at their list price titled; "The Way To God" and What Time Is It" ? They are guaranteed to get you thinking. Be Blessed!

  23. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    That's just what I was thinking.

    1. darkland profile image60
      darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks genaea, I'm not going to bother with this guy any more but it's been great theading with you. If this one is dead may we meet up again sometime.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        We shall meet again if God allows smile The reading comprehension thing was funny and over-used. Christians can't read, obviously. Lol. I believe this one is dead. But soon, there'll be another. Later:)

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't doubt believers can read, it is their ability to synthesize what they read that is in question.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You question my ability to synthesize read materials? Bite your tongue. I was given the gift of reading comprehension from age 4. I know how to synthesize. You change, contradict, and attempt to control the conversation with a ton of accusation and finger-pointing. No responsibility. Now THAT i understood. It is ok though. You are getting some valuable information. Some sinks in.

            1. darkland profile image60
              darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well I guess things are not so dead as I thought. I suddenly realized I never really answered the question.  I think that praying in groups no matter how loudly is probably better than not praying at all and whether or not the preacher is sincere, if there is one supplicant truly moved, it's probably worth it.
                God does know everything and he knows we need to pray. It helps us focus on Him and maybe hear Him a little more clearly.  I pray all the time and it's really a very wonderful way of life, not that I see nonstop miracles but it heightens and deepens my individual relationship with Him. 
              I respect deeply those who are good, honest and decent people regardless of their faith or ideology but the quality of my life would be greatly diminished without prayer.  You just have to follow whatever sings to you and inspires you to be a better, happier person.  If that happens to be a TV evangalist then I would support you all the way.  I believe it is all the Spirit of Truth that moves each of us in it's own way and I, for one, thank God for that.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Prayer is not for supplicant moving, right??? Prayer is a way to talk to God, a form of expression of our person to him, yes? The call by Jesus to go in your closet in secret is an answer to those who "pray" just to get mans' wink, praise, glory. It displeases God to be so excited about the approval of man in spirituality.  This prayer is not for the benefit of man, but supplication to God. Loud moaning prayers screamed into a michrophone have always been a huge source of laughter from me and my church peers. We could not help it. Some people REALLY put on a show.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Contradict much? lol

                  1. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, indeed, you are funny smile. We may not know God's thoughts unless he tells us. He told us what displeases him. So now we see who has problems synthesizing read materials.

                2. darkland profile image60
                  darklandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree wholeheartedly if you have prayed for the praise of men then you haven't really prayed at all.  These guys who put on a show have received their reward. If the people listening are entertained by this rather than made more holy, they too have been rewarded and have only mocked prayer. I was just saying that if it helped someone listening in the audience  to really focus on God, who would otherwise be focused on mammon than they have been blessed and so it might be worth it to that person. In my mind talking about God is better than not talking about Him, but perhaps these showmen do more harm than good...I don't watch that sort of thing. 
                  As a Christian, I try to accept everyone, love everyone and hopefully inspire someone to be a little bit more accepting and loving....that's my job.  In the end, if God wants to shut up the wonton evangelist He'll do it, I can't really hope to say what is truly in that person's heart or mind. The Jews were very offended because of what Jesus said and automatically grouped him with other false prophets of his time, so they missed his message and continued in their pride, losing what was within their grasp. Judgement is a dangerous thing because hypocrisy often trails hidden in its wake.  If we are too quick to condemn we lose our humility and become our own worst enemy

                  1. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    There is no condemnation to those who walk after the spirit. Those who are entertained by "fluffy/pride-seeking prayers" are entertained by the "show". That prayer really does not speak to God as you said. Therefore there is only entertainment to mock. How is there a way to become more holy through this? Those who hear the fluffy prayer. Learn, as babes in Christ, to pray with "much speaking and vain repetitions." Right? Jesus spoke against it specifically.  It seems to me that Jesus spoke against a lot that happens in church services. It is so scary to me.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, when will we see this gift in action?



              Ah, not yet, I see.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                All of your words are in black and white, literally. There is proof of what I say about your conversation within this thread, if you have not deleted the passages. It is not a guess, assumption, or the fault of lack of understanding. The way you played with this post just proves the petty way in which you make your arguments. I see now why you laugh so often, you are funny, indeed.

          2. calynbana profile image86
            calynbanaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Funny I share a similar viewpoint about a slightly different group.

  24. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Hello Thread Participants,
    I assure you that our God is not moved by disbelief. If you want, he is there. If you don't, he understands better than you do. Jesus came to save his family. Disbelief disqualifies. If this upsets you, you may belong to him. I'm just saying...

    1. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you say so!

    2. jacharless profile image82
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Dear Thread Participants,
      I firmly assure you:
      If your g/God is not moved by unbelief He is equally not moved by belief.
      If moved by either, He is no better than a human.
      If moved by either He becomes subject to the human perspective.
      If moved by either becomes partial, divided in Himself.

      Do you really know your g/God as well as you proclaim. Me thinks you do not.
      And injecting what Moshiach came to do, to fulfill your empty position, is irrelevant.
      What was done, was done, and you have no right to claim His work/testimony as your own, nor use it as a catalyst to further promote vain advantages {meaning superiority by vanity}.

      James.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi James smile For sure, God is moved by belief. His forces in our lives work according to faith. You cannot receive from the father without acknowledgment, right? I know my father, Sir.
        I, however, am not familiar with yours.

        1. jacharless profile image82
          jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          -liar. He is not moved by human faith. Humans are moved by faith which consumes them into Him, not the other way around. -liar, again. One need not acknowledge any thing. One need only to walk with the Spirit, which is faith, which is truth.-liar, a third time. Now crows the rooster.-do you know what my Abba detests above all things, love? A lying/split tongue...

          Pay attention, Eve. Soften your heart, stop milking and you just might experience everything you have memorized -and then some... smile

          James.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Wow! Such harsh words, coming from one who claims to walk with "the" Abba??? Not my Abba, Love. You cannot walk alongside one of whom you have not acknowledged. Then you walk with strangers. Eureka!!!
            God is moved by faith. It is all over the work that you have put down in an attempt to do what "feels" right. But some of those ways lead to death. Not necessarily of the body. But of spirit. You follow your father. I, Sir, will follow mine. Memorization is just the beginning, you must keep walking straight, turning neither to the right nor left.

            1. jacharless profile image82
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not some ways, love, ALL ways save one lead to death. That only way is called Spirit. Moshiach said so! Remember? Now, one of those death ways is you bending God to your ways -memorization, appealing to your faith; acknowledging your faith and praising/rewarding you for that faith. It does not work that way. That is creating God in your image. That is exactly what happened to Eve. Now you understand why I said, "my Abba", and why He detests a lying tongue. A tongue that divides Truth and forms only lies because of its division. Do you want to join the dead --the many, many before you? I wonder....
              James.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes! I understand now, your Abba and my Abba are not the same. All ways lead to death save one. Belief. What follows is obedience. Eve disobeyed an order that she must have forgotten. No, the tempter convinced her that the command she received was a set up to trick her. She believed a different report, remember? She must have been curious. The tempter knew she would be. God did not stop her as he could have. He allowed her to decide her path. It was not God's word that she ate. She ate satan's. She heard the word of God and put it on the shelf. See what happened next???

                1. scottcgruber profile image91
                  scottcgruberposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting how closely Christians link evil and curiosity. No wonder so many of them are anti-science.

                  1. CapnFatz profile image60
                    CapnFatzposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    More like linking evil and disobedience.

                    As for the science aspect, nearly all modern science sets on a foundations established by those who were followers of an Abrahamic faith.

                    IF there's an accusation that MIGHT have meat, its the one that suggests that Christians are anti-academia.  To a certain degree, that is correct.   The opposition however is based more on academic institutions becoming mouthpieces of certain ideological strains of political and social thought.

                2. jacharless profile image82
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Shakes head. More split tongue doctrinal misinformation.

                  Belief is nothing more than a thought, a consideration, in owns perspective/thinking. It is powerless. Once a thought is acted upon, it no longer remains belief, it becomes manifestation -proof of exactly what the thought entailed. It goes from substance to evidence. The image reflected as it is seen/believed/considered.

                  And here you add conditions to belief: obedience. Obedience is doing what one is told in fear of retribution, punishment else reward for ones effort. That is called works. Obedience is reserved and came from slave mentality. Ask the Hebrews about that. They were obedient to a fault. lol. They tried to bend God to their way, by following the Oral & Written Rules and on numerous occasions "called Him out" on it. But no matter how much belief they had, their stiff-neck way of rules, "obey or else" brought nothing but death.

                  Eve was never given a military "order" to "obey".
                  Adam was given a "warning" and the effect if he did not heed the warning.
                  What tempter? What Report? What Set up? Sounds like church-babble.

                  Stop milking Eve.

                  James.

                  1. Jerry Hulse profile image76
                    Jerry Hulseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    It looks to me like you are searching for truth and I shall pray for you.

                  2. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So why don't you tell me what happened in the garden that day, I know you were there. There was no order, dont eat or surely die??? No temptation to eat, no eating/disobeying??? Please give me the "correct" version of that story, Sir. Nevermind, I am not prepared for berry picking. Nevertheless, you challenge what? You don't want to listen to the bible anymore because you have found a "truth" that outweighs the biblical info that I have. Ok. I cannot interfere with that. Must you continue ranting about my "Eve-ness"? I am trying to leave it all behind. smile I need the words of God. I know that he gave us those words in the bible as a guide or steer. Sheep w/o steer are unruly. God knows this. One mind. Not many different. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if we all just made up our own rules and called it God at work???

  25. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Yeah, documented alongside my picture. You better be careful listening to James. The facts are on my every post. You and he both missed that??? That illustrates a lot. Ok, i will stop here.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So, yours is a home-grown religion, shaped to satisfy your own needs.  You are welcome to it.   And I mean this sincerely, because your life would obviously be empty without it.
      It most definitely does not suit me, and presumably it would not suit many others.

      By the way, the "joys of God," as you put it .....  I daily marvel at the joys of this world.   As far as I am concerned, there is nothing to experience beyond this life I have now.   To waste the joys of this day, this moment, would be such a pity.  I have eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin, plus all of my mental faculties.  These are blessings for me.   Some people have much less but they usually compensate in some ways by their magnanimity and courage.  They give me encouragement and inspiration.   

      The forest, the meadow, the mountains, the valley.   The sea, the waves, the clouds, the dynamic changes which take place and the long, long history of everything which has preceded me.......everything in this world is glorious and awesome.   Why would anyone need to dream up a guilt-ridden concoction such as you believe in? 

      I repeat.... you are welcome to it!

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you! The welcome to my savior is appreciated. Did you know that my God made the glorious works that you marvel at? I am not surprised that you have chosen to concentrate on the wonders that appeal to your eyes. The bible speaks about that too. The wonders and awe in the mountains, trees, and streams are not worthy of our praise. The one who made them, however, IS worthy. What you can see, only a small portion of the wonder he wants us to experience. The assurance that the one who knows how it ALL works, holds my hand, is the awe-inspiration for me. I don't worry that that fact alone makes you to believe that I am "crazy, misled, indoctrinated, or untruthful" in any manner. I expect that. I read my bible. Have your way. It is your right.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And yet, geology would show us how mountains and streams were formed, no gods were required. Evolution shows us how trees evolved, no gods were required.

          Seems there is not one there to praise after all. smile

          1. jonnycomelately profile image86
            jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Only in the mind of the one who wants to believe.   No more substance to it than that. 

            I have numerous times honoured the person who wants to believe, like I do the need which genaea has portrayed.   The need to convince others of her own point of view, and the presumption that we are any less "right" if we don't accept her point of view, is what I reject.   

            The trouble is our world is currently full of fanatics.   When the fanatical viewpoint is fostered then it can become the cause of oppression.  This is why I am coming back to these comments so often, and not leaving them be.   It worries me.

          2. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So I see which report YOU believe. Who is right? We can't all be. God has secrets that NO ONE knows. Not even the authors of your books of evolution. Did they ever find out what was in that black hole? Can they know what is contained within the earth's core? Shoot! They can't even precisely tell you how the pyramids were built! And that wasn't so long ago! How can they claim to have their own origin explained? It is ALL just big guesses. Now if that suits you, ok. I choose differently. Why does that upset you so? Aint "tree-praisn" good enough for you???

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I don't believe in any reports, whatever that is. However, one cannot ignore facts. Why do you?



              Speaking for God has got to be one of the most dishonest positions to take.



              No, but we know a great deal about trees, mountains and streams, which you appear to know nothing about except what you read from the Bible.



              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth



              http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 104302.htm



              No, yours is an argument from incredulity.



              Your dishonesty does not upset me in the least.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nor yours, me wink

          3. AntonOfTheNorth profile image61
            AntonOfTheNorthposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            unless of course that gravity, thermodynmics, dna and etc were created by god.  Then of course, god would be essential to the creation of mountains, streams and trees.  smile

            cheers

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sounds "logical" enough to me. smile

  26. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    I suppose to honor this posting we should all jump to the correct  side of the columns ,however seeing that the O P"S  intent is simply  to throw a few digs out there as bait . And as always , the non-believer  claims "they are breaking down my door  , these evangelists"!    But hey  who's" preaching "now ? The OP?

  27. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    And no, the kingdom of God is not experienced in "reality" as is the beef of many of you. Now, faith is what it takes. God's kingdom will come on earth when he is ready. There is an innumerable number of his to live with him, so maybe some of them have yet to be born. I cant count innumerable, but God is counting.

  28. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Jacharless, another point: everyday we must decide yes or no. We are tempted on every side. We must choose to follow. We are not forced into God's kingdom. Those who will be there, really want to be there. It is not an "act good or else" doctrine. We ALL know that acting good is an impossibility on most accounts.  It is a thinking doctrine. A doctrine that teaches us that we will never know it all, can never do it all, but our hearts should be wrapped up in the truth. Know the truth, (that Jesus died for you so that you may be acceptable to the father through faith in him) so that that truth can free you from the sin within. It is so simple yet so complex at the same time. Did you even understand all that?

    1. jacharless profile image82
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually we do not have to decide every day. How can I say this? Simply two things:
      a. Once a decision is made -yes or no- it is made. There is no reason to alter that decision.
      b. Actuality there is no decision humans are required to make. Decisions implore Choice. Choices implore a lack of Understanding, of Practical Faith. Choice also implores exceedingly Great Fear and Division of Philos {Wisdom}. Choice or Reason IS the Adamic Inception, which most understand as eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Good-Evil IS the dividing of Philos.
      Actually, no. We assume we are tempted because we continue to Reason, to divide Wisdom into parts. The evidence of that division is the world we see today. A world much different than the one humans were designed to manage. A result that caused all this trouble, and the need for Restoration.
      Yes, correct. No one is forced into the KOH nor out of it -except by man and doctrines of obey or go to hell.Which is one major point, in me, that brought me to it. It required much thinking. So much thinking it became addictive, exhausting and equally did not satisfy the result of thinking, Understanding {Wisdom}. The doctrine, upheld and founded in the bible is a front to back account of the division of Wisdom.And this is one of the biggest errs of the teaching of the text and additions by people reasoning the text. Every single blip of necessary information, about everything humans, needed to know, to exist in-between {meaning as immortal entities of both "heaven-earth"} and able to recognize, manage and enjoy the entire planet -all its many and beautiful parts- was genetically placed in them.
      Think about that.
      How many species of birds are there? How many kinds of plants, fish, bugs, etc. We were designed and coded with Understanding of them all PLUS the Understanding of why they work the way they do. Not just "cuz He made them. Period. End of Story."  That is just the beginning of the story.
      In man was placed knowledge and understanding of himself, and all his parts.

      To that was added yet another layer: knowledge and understanding of the universe and its many parts. Wait! there is more. To that was added knowledge and understanding of Creator. To that was added one unique, utterly defining, awesome, ineffable thing that no other creation has nor will ever -not fish, angel or planet x. To man was given the Breath of Life Himself. Why? So that man would be consumed in Him and reflect every single solitary thing that was made and enjoy it all in one perfectly unique existence.

      Man was created above thinking. Far above Reason. And kilometer upon kilometer above needing to decide moment to moment. Man was formed by ruach, soaked in ruach, programmed and enabled with ruach AND then placed within ruach to reflect the hidden wonders, secrets and greatness of Creator.

      {so much for being nothing, worthless filthy rags, etc}

      You do not remember who you are?! Remember Eve. Remember. Moshiach came to remind you. The Spirit -the essence of the Creator Himself came to remind you. Why do people continue to resist Him, I wonder. Do they truly prefer madness, chaos and death over Life? Is their amnesia really that  incurable, despite the millions of pills and thousands of years of textual, doctrinal "Aum"...

      Which is irrelevant. If you or myself never heard of Moshiach would not change what was done and undone. This is why I am constantly repeating to you -and others- precisely the reason the text is inadequate and only -repeat only- by and through the Spirit -that same Breath of Life- are humans able to be fully restored to that place.
      Great, you know Moshiach came, did works, fulfilled the Atonement of Cain, the Law, Babel --everything Reversed & Restored. Awesome! { and approximately 50 million monthly readers just read this or will this month. Bang! gospel preached to the world. Mission accomplished. between here and Facebook & Twitter, pretty much 6 billion people just got served the Good News. Now what? Aum?}

      Why after 2047 years is everybody still sitting in front of an empty cross, an empty tomb chanting the documentation of those events -over and over and over and over and over - as if somehow those documents are going to make that transformation happen in them??!

      James.

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You are mad! What in the world have you done? I don't know how you come up with this hidden information. It is most likely from within though. The KOH is foreign to me. Moschiac? Foreign. I am so amused by your enlightenment, and I know that I know where it comes from.
        Take, for example your illustration that "confirms" we don't have to decide, once the decision has been made. Did you ask Solomon like I told you to do? You probabably cannot get a word through to him though. Being one assumed to have wisdom beyond compare, he made a decision one day. Bowed to one of his wives' Gods. LOST HIS MIND!!! He "decided/chose/elected/thought too much" that God's way was no longer the best way. Probably couldn't count to ten once "self" was done chewing his bones. Now you...who the hell is your Abba? You speak as someone who is in the same transition as Sol. I have read many of your sentences and frankly, some of them, just don't make sense. I don't cut and paste, cuz I just don't want to learn.  We assume we are tempted because we reason??? That statement is not utterly ridiculous to you Solomon? I guess it would not be huh? The bible a front to who/what? You got it twisted. That is the issue. When you deny the truth,...just ask Solomon. You are bowing to Jach, he is too great! He cannot receive anymore? Reprobate?
        Man knows nothing. Man guesses. He is sure of nothing. I don't know why birds work the way they do. That, i would have to pick up a book to find out. Programmed? Though they call me Pisces, i have no idea how or why fish work (save for, add hot sauce) i would have to pick up a book to find out. Programmed??? Now that should end the conversation, but it don't cause you said something else that needs address. I have no idea why I make the decisions I make most times, automatically. I have no idea about my sub conscience. I can't even pick up a book to find out what is there. But I stay close to the one who made me. Now HE knows all that stuff i mentioned. He helps me navigate around all that unknown stuff. You, who can't remember recent activities, nor tell 10 months from two years, has been programmed with all that knowledge? Now there's your problem... You're about to burst with information. Too much KOH, not enough humility. Man created above thinking??? No, YOU created above thinking, alone. You alone, "soaked" in SOMETHING. Have you taken any of those "pills"? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No MAN comes to the Father but by him.

        1. jacharless profile image82
          jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nice rant.
          Mad? Me? have a cup of Tea! lol
          Yes, I am nearly out of my mind. Good of you to finally notice.

          Now, If the KOH is foreign to you, than sadly, you will not be able to enter into it.
          Creator has hidden nothing from us. In fact, He made it clear he desires to reveal all things hidden -and watch closely, bring all things to our remembrance. That means humans forgot some things. A lot of things. But, the KOH brings that memory back. It is humans who hid -from jump street- from Creator and have been hiding ever since. {hello, Adam hiding behind a bush} Creator is out in the open for everyone to see. Always has been, always will. No peek-a-boo, no hide-n-seek, figure-it-out-if-you-can game. He gave us this information to commune with Him and be that image/likeness, meaning what He imagined and having His attributes within. And do not dare say He did not make man in His image/likeness or that that image is inept or lacking, because you would be lying, calling Creator a liar and what He created inferior.

          Yes, above Reason man was created. Above Reason means above good-evil. Above and beyond right-wrong; yes-no. And you even confirmed it mentioning doing things automatically. It does not mean you do not know how to do those things, it means the Processor -the Brain- is doing what it was designed to, process Light. Where does that light come from? From inside, in the spirit. That spirit actually flows through your blood, but I cannot explain that right now. What I can explain is before Adam/Eve indulged their Brain -indulged Reason -indulged Thinking, their brain worked automatically and they understood how things worked. They were created to understand the entire planet. Versus theories of evolution or "Unga-bunga man make fire!".  Man is the most intelligent creation Creator ever made. I highly doubt, for even one second, Creator would make man inept to His marvelous creations, void of information, when He purposely made man to govern ever edge of that creation AND to be the reflection of Himself.

          Yes, the bible is a front to back account of what happened when man indulged Reason {good from evil}. He went Mad. The Inception -from Adam through Solomon -right up to work of Moshiach and even afterward, showing the difference between practical-faith {heart-knowledge} and doctrinal-fake {head knowledge}. The entire account sums up all the parts of Sin & Death like no other book can. What exactly do you think Passover was for, the Sea Parting, The Arc of the Covenant, the Dry Bones, the Cross, the Transfiguration with Moses and Elijah, the Resurrection, and the 2nd coming of the Spirit into man? Show and Tell? Magic Stories to tell your grand kids around the holographic iPad fire of the 22nd century? Or to assume the documents have power to thrust you into the KOH -or better, provide you a ticket to the Afterlife?

          [btw Moshiach in Hebrew means Messiah, the Greek word Iesous, which you use as Jesus, is a pagan word for the son of Zeus. His real name would have been Y'shua ben Yosef or Joshua son of Joseph, commonly -but the titles given him are many, yes.]

          Odd thing happened today. Was visited by a team -yes a team- of canvasing JW's. Nice people. Long story short, after 3 hours of conversation, they too were "blown away" by the same things I am saying to you. He and his wife agreed on many points, confused about others -especially about there being no Satan, no need for religion. But in spite of their dislikes and firm positions were willing to listen with an open heart. That surprised me and made me ask questions of them. What a great dialogue. By the end of the conversation they asked if they could come back and bring their friends -even their pastor- who would really be interested in listening what I said and could also answer questions I posed to them. I said, of course, while every single other neighbor who was "hit up" slammed the door shut in their faces: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, and others unknown to me.  Why am I telling you this? Because I would like to have these same dialogues with you -as I do others here- versus the rambling/rant, "bible says" epilepsy.

          James.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, for me, our Exchanges go from one extreme to the other too quickly. Nothing personal. Pool will be enough smile my imaginings and your imaginings are a little different. I have listened. But I aint hearin' nothin' . You have too much of something and not enough of the other. I understand your viewpoint. But to me, it is just not right. All of your ideas about humans being more than they actually are, human, are hard to get past. Our thoughts are not his thoughts. Our ways are not his ways. How can they be? Is a servant greater than his master? Is he even equal? God created us in his image, yes. But he did not reveal at least one secret to his own son. He told the garden dwellers, "Dont." and they reasoned to do. They said, nope, this way is better. But, they did not have all the info. They stepped out on their own KOH and drew back a nub. They disobeyed a direct command. You are fooling some folks. But they will be ok, if they read it and believe it for themselves. You are instructed by knowledge, it takes faith. Now i want you to leave!!! Let me grab your KOH for you. LOL

            1. jacharless profile image82
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I am not the one being instructed by knowledge, you are, actually.
              You think, you reason, the bible {which includes scripture} is the knowledge of God.
              Hebrews thought the same, even when Moshiach came and showed them face to face. lol. Stiff-necked Sallies.

              And what need for faith then, since you have the bible. Because heck, the instructions are right there, right? Faith is bringing about what is not seen. It is not bringing about what is seen -like words in a book which we can all see {and read}. The KOH is unseen and cannot be known by doctrine, nor books, nor pseudo-faith {sensational overload sprinkled with memorized texts}. It takes REAL faith. And with faith comes a flood of Knowledge and Understanding.

              As for His Ways, his thoughts: what makes you think the sum of all human thought is meant to imply the totality of His thoughts? lol, That is cray. The sum of human thought is just that, the sum He gave us. You assume my meaning is we know "everything" in totality, which is not what I said, at all. What I said was He programmed every bit of knowledge humans needed to manage this planet -front to back- understand creation, worlds far away and commune with Him. Remember, Creator never told Adam what the animals were, He just said, whatever you [Adam] call them, they will be. Why would Creator do that if man was not supposed to know about every last one -albino whale to microscopic flea.

              If you disagree, then tell me why He made humans? To be Organic Bible Reading Robots?
              If you know better, and think I am fooling people, then tell me why you -having the true faith- state again the KOH is foreign to you, when in fact, the KOH is within you. Not over there in the bible on the shelf.

              James.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The spirit that God gave me to keep me is referred to, in my world as the holy spirit. I am really confused about what you say your relationship is. You keep pointing to all this mind boggling what? Are you programmed to walk with the father and koh from birth? Did you learn it AFTER you gave up preaching? Did you dream it? Was it given to you by uh,? I guess it really doesn't matter. I am fine with your chosen path for you. As for me, and my house...

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                  Chasukposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I know that I love my wife and my daughters, and that I prefer chocolate to spinach. I know these things without corroboration. I don't need evidence to believe them, because they aren't factual claims. They are true because I believe them.

                  Factual claims, I don't claim to "know." I only believe them, to a greater or a lesser degree of confidence.

                2. jacharless profile image82
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Perhaps it is referred to as such, yes, but unless a persons knows the KOH they cannot say they know the Spirit in them. And again I remind the readers, there is only One Spirit, undivided. Every human is programmed genetically with all information necessary for an immortal existence and things concerning the elements of this world and more... In addition to that information, are also given the joy of understanding why these things exist, thier mechanics {how they work} --and even more, the ability to experience them; to commune {walk with} Him, yes -even before birth, even before conception. Before. I have had dreams too, yes. And more than dreams -experiences.What "house"? A "house" that serves the Lord is one that is no stranger {is not foreign} to the KOH. Because the "house" {dwelling place} of Creator is the KOH...

                  James.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So, you are saying that I am wrong because the bible is believed by me to be of value? And that my spirit is somewhat tarnished or underdeveloped because if my use of biblical scripture as a guide? Again, i am following Jesus, in this life and the life to come. I cannot buy your berries. Jesus quoted and corrected the understanding of scripture. That that I understand, I quote as well. You have developed a way around it? Ok, but I stay here. Thank you for trying to show me your ways. However, I am only interested in the way of Christ. Are we there yet?

  29. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    You sir , Have no faith  at least not in the spiritual  sense !  And that alone! ......Is required . And yet ,  for you to have so much literal faith in that there is no higher being blows my mind ............., Can't a reflection  in that mirror of your faith,   yours or ours  , allow you to allow another to believe without your constant barage of digs against a "believer ".....No , I think it's the smallness of the "open and intellectual " minds  that falls short of common sense ....as usual!   I always get a kick out of this crap load of intellectual  horsebucky!
    You don't have to believe , in fact I'd rather you didn't  .
    Yet she does,
    You are  but a  card carrying member of the forum cyber bullies society ?

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Funny smile he is sure of God. But he puts God on the inside of him. Not a seeker. He already was born with what it takes to make it as God's own. I think. Faith is what it takes. Once you let it go, this is what happens, horsebuckey smile

  30. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Troubled,
    Great news!!! I read your article. Guess what? Somebody FINALLY THINKS they know how the pyramids were built. Science is making great strides. They may GUESS up on the truth one day:) or, just keep on guessing.

  31. ITcoach profile image59
    ITcoachposted 4 years ago

    Hi Everyone,

    It is no doubt to say that God knows everything. Even if you take a sigh, God knows the reason of taking it or the reason what to happen next and why it was happening.


    Thanks for choosing this religious topic that every one relate to it.

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      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The word of God will go forth forever. Everywhere. It is promised. It will be done. No one can stop it. I love this topic! Glad to hear you like it too smile

  32. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Jach, you directly misquoted the text. Was that purposely? "It is better to have a millstone tied abour your neck and be cast into the depths of the sea, than for you to cause the least of his to fall into sin." To me, that is the sin of disbelief. You making them fall? Don't read the rules??? Don't know what the bible says??? Don't study it??? Jesus studied it, right??? Please SOMEBODY!!! get me a tissue. Please be careful Sir.

    1. jacharless profile image82
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, it was paraphrased, but to the point. YOU continue to fall into sin, because of your obsession with sin. By obsession I do mean the Law pertaining to Sin -which is the bible and its effect, which is death.
      See the aforementioned statement.
      Wow, five more questions and still no answers from you. Typical cyclical. You are better at church than you pretend, little lady.  Am only telling the truth, not my truth. There are NO RULES. Find me one rule Moshiach established --just one-- between the 4G and the small entry in Acts. And keep in mind, the 4G are repetitive entries about the same thing during a meager 3 1/2 year period of time. The other Rules are centuries old and make up 85% of the bible. Ding! Pick It Up!

      You want rules ??? Then follow ALL 613 Rules, else you are what they call a hypocrite, just like the Pharisee were who kept the yolk on the peoples neck. You want to learn more about sin ??? Go ahead, do not let me get in your Way. Add another 10 kilos to the millstone!

      The more you learn about good-evil; sin-death; the further from the KOH you go, just like Adam and Eve. Took a long time to finally kill them and every other human being who has believed in sin and effect of sin -death. To paraphrase again, "By your words you are justified or condemned to death. Who's words? Your words. Not Jesus words. No Saul's words. Not Petra's words. YOURS. Jesus words justified him and only him. His words are his testimony, just as your words are your testimony.  And his words were confirmed when he was lifted up as the first born from the dead.  Are you there yet???

      You want to experience the effect of sin, the result which is death ??? Hey, be my guest. More "power" to ya. Me, I prefer Life..Please, allow me. You are going to need it...a lot of them, actually. Ahem, Sorry, love, no can do. Your claims are still bogus and you have yet to prove they are not.

      James.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is not about proving anything to anybody. God's word is to be proof enough. For me, it is. So don't concern yourself with my presumed downfalls. You are justified or condemed to death by the words you speak. Jesus also said, "it is not what goes into a man that defiles him (makes his soul unclean) but what comes out. Those things that we say, can defile our spirits. You feel that barring God's children from the words/life of Jesus, told about biblically, will justify you? Talk about stiffnecked... Humility is the cloak of God's children. A proud look... Well, you know. I don't know why you have turned away from truth, but many will follow you. Not all.

        1. jacharless profile image82
          jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Incorrect. It is about proving everything. As a matter of fact, Moshiach said that. But, this is typical doctrinal safety net because the collective believing lack evidence of what they claim to believe.Again with the Sin mentality? Really? Did you not read what I wrote completely ??? What downfalls ??? What Sin ??? That is what I said. you just reinforced it. Thank you.Not at all. And I am not barring anyone from anything. I have shown you why the bible is inadequate on several occasions. It is the reminder of the Law of Sin Death  -cover to cover. Don't believe me? Fine. I am not going to force you to believe it. That would be precisely like you or other bible thumpers. Again, to repeat, it is certainly your choice. Moshiach said the same thing to the Hebrews -you know the folks commissioned to carry the ENTIRE burden of the RULES for thousands of years. Still it is HYSTERICAL how believers, like the Hebrews cannot let go of the rules -and violently, vehemently try to hold on to them with all their strength and will fight and die protecting or defending those Rules. Rules to defend and protect just one thing: Sin & Death {aka their ha~satan, ego, amnesiac thinking}. Rules upheld to justify a bleeding lack of practical faith; a lack of evidence of the KOH in them. Rules that will eventually kill them, their self-made doctrinal enemies and any other person who touches the LSD {and no, not the drug itself, but the rules which are exactly like the drug...lol}. Cloak of invisibility is more like it. A cloak that hides the KOH from themselves and others. How do you know what I have done? You do not even know the heart within you -which is not my assumption- it was your statement on several occasions. You are claiming because I do not follow the bible like a good little idol {bible} worshiper that I have turned from truth? I have not turned toward nor away from any part of Truth -except your truth and every other believers "personal" truth. Six Billion different truths all claiming to be the Truth yet not one iota of those truths manifesting the KOH. But certainly enough planks to build a million new Arks.

          And I incorrect? Let's put it to the test by you answering my earlier question:
          What new Rules {commands, edicts} did Moshiach establish and state everyone should follow. Just one will do. And the List would be even better.
          James.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus said, "Do good to them that hate you." and a myriad of other things. That is the one you asked for, now find the rest. You cannot live this life without agreeing with the text. You must know that it is good. You must realize your shortcoming and be humble and thankful for the gift. To be "puffed-up" is a problem. You claim that my bible quotations are an unnecessary practice. A lack of understanding. Therefore a downfall, right? I feel that your lack of understanding is displayed through your constant rant about your KOH. It is not a common term. You are showing off for the crowd. You want to demonstrate your knowledge through the verbiage. God comes down to our level. Remember how my Jesus spoke each ones' language to bring the knowledge of Godly, biblical, yes torah, script? You are not like Jesus. Therefore, not much like the creator at all. None of us can follow the bible. Proven fact. It is ideal and to be upheld as an ultimate truth of God. I have understood mostly that you have been eating too many of your own fruits. That is what started all the trouble in the first place. They changed the course of history forever, nibbling at the wrong stuff. God's word is best. It does not come from you, but God. First through belief in the ultimate truth. Then, he meets you where you are.

            1. jacharless profile image82
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Everything you have said here is not the Truth.
              I cannot continue this descend into your truth -which is commitment to Sin & Death, sorry.
              Perhaps, if you say something non-cyclical, non-divisive, it might change my mind. Nothing you have said makes sense.Shortcomings, downfalls, textual worship, beliefs are all the words of the dead. What words of Life do you know?

              Moshiach's words you quote only because they were printed for you, to satisfy laziness and lack of practical faith. In short you are hiding behind his words, because your words have no authority, no power, cannot be applied to manifest immortality nor prove that salvation. You are a thief, and a bad thief at that. you have stolen the Fathers glory which is not yours to take and call it righteousness.

              You are sad or upset because I mention, many times, the KOH. A kingdom foreign and unknown to you -and millions before you and possibly millions after you, who have chosen their ego over truth. Disguise it, cloak it, twist it any which way you prefer, the result is the same. The Truth is in you, but you refuse to see and embrace it. Death is your hope and your harvest.  In fact, your every word shows how you prefer, rejoice and hope for death to come. Proving even more that obsession. Truth was put in you from the beginning yet, you, like others, trade truth for rules, doctrines to protect from the effects of knowing good-evil. To hide, as Adam did, from his shame and nakedness. But these things cannot save you, restore your forgetfulness, nor transform you -body, brain and spirit- into the immortal you were created to be. For it is that immortality, that transformation, with proves the glory of the Father; that proves the perfect Will. You have made your choice. Go, and manifest the fruit of your decision...

              James.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Since everything that I have said is not the truth, and they are the words of Jesus, then I will call you Houston. Cuz we got a problem. I am sure that you have not gotten this "joke" so I must explain. The words if the bible are the truth. Are they not? Also, the words of Jesus are the words of that same bible that is the truth, no??? Since you have called the words that I speak, the words of Jesus and the bible a lie, maybe, it is Houston alone with the problem. The words of Jesus a lie??? Did you think on that before you typed it? My guess, again, is no. You are SO interested in smashing my view, that you have mistakenly called my ABBA a liar??? Oh, my ABBA agrees with Jesus too. But, you don't even seem to acknowledge that fact. You walk with ABBA? You mean the rock band??? Ego? You have yet to notice that it is you who continuously praises you, and your knowledge. This same knowledge that has repeatedly denied the truth and called the words of God a lie??? I speak the words of Jesus; the closest human representation we have of the father. You call me a thief? You are trying to steal the word of God from his children. The words that I speak, the words of Jesus bring life. Your words death to you. I thought you got that from the last words I spoke that came from Jesus. It is what comes out that defiles you. The word of God is a lie, is one of those death-bringing statements. All of the words of Jesus bring life.
                Lastly, I have no power. I have told you that many times. I know that you have powers, but God did not give them to you; maybe your Abba did. Have you had that power since the eighties? He made sure that no one would be fooled. He put it in writing. We have the ability to know all that we need to know. Too much information without God will burst your brain Solomon. Ego is to be left out of the equation. I am pretty sure that I have at least the education that you have had. I love words. I love reading them. I love writing them. Not a bragger and I hate to say that, my reading comprehension scores have always been among the highest in my class. Each class. Yet, I have many problems following your posts. They are so full of information that they overwhelm. Long, long, long puffs of smoke. Million dollar words with worthless amounts of logic and knowledge, just too much. You are even so interested in blotting out the words of Jesus that you call him a liar? At the same time claiming to be "of God"???
                Now...I ramble. Oops. Never meant to be influenced.
                smile wont happen again.

                1. darkland profile image