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Many Christians Say "That's Unnatural!" According to Whom?

  1. A Thousand Words profile image80
    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago

    Now, this is not really an "attack" on Christianity. My goal is instead to ask an important question. According to many Christians, homosexuality and anything that is different from what they consider to be traditional, God-ordained "common sense" and order in the human world is "unnatural." But I'm here to raise some objections, my main focuses being on the animal kingdom, and what defines "natural."

    First of all, I'm certain many of you have heard a Christian claim, or maybe have been a Christian claiming, that God's order for humans is even evident in animals and that they are examples of the traditional family. Now of course, there are common examples against that like lion prides, but I want to talk about some that are more complex, and more disturbing.

    I attended a church service with my mother a few weeks back. There was minister who was taking the place temporarily of the main Pastor while he was taking a trip around Europe, I believe it was. Anyway, this man told a "heart wrenching" story about a goose and her little goslings. Apparently these animals choose one mate for their whole lives. Then her mate got killed, and she was forced to look after her little goslings on her own. But his point was that God's natural order of things can even be found in the Animal Kingdom, so I have some examples of animals who's "order of things" resemble nothing that anyone would deem right or holy, and would seem down right "unnatural."

    These are two bigger examples:

    Whiptail Lizards: Certain species of the Whiptail lizards are asexual. Yep. That's right. The women don't need men to have their little lizard babies. We know a matriarchal society when we see one. The female Aspidoscelis tesselata, or checkered whiptail lizard, can get pregnant easily without the help of a male. yikes. It's called parthenogenetics. Do some research, it's quite fascinating. There are some species of animals that we are familiar with that can reproduce sexually OR asexually. The hammerhead being an example.

    The Scientific American study of the asexual whiptail lizards. http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … al-lizards

    Sea Lice: One of the most gruesome on the list, is the sea louse. Female sea lice are deathly afraid of getting pregnant. So, in order to continue the species, the males must rape the females (many at a time). Why don't the females want to get pregnant? Well, you wouldn't want to be pregnant either if you knew it meant certain death. Female sea lice's babies eat them from the inside out as they grow, so that by the time they hatch, mommy's a carcass. What a beautiful example of proper family structure. Being natural and all.

    Watch this video from the Animal Planet's The Most Extreme: Mothers

    This is just a couple of examples of MANY animals and animal behaviors that are different from the "norm." I didn't mention the gay penguins in China or the Ram and Deer that fell in love(also in China), or the fact that many animal species abandon their offspring, or that the more intelligent animals like dolphins and apes, can also rape the females of their species, and not necessarily for reproductive purposes. Lionesses put the food on the table, and they mate with all the males in a pride as the males lose interest(but, can you call them sluts?). Sometimes one male lion gets a number of females to himself. In seahorses, the male is the one that carries the babies to term.

    So, if we're going to conclude that anything can learned about "God" from the Animal Kingdom, could it be that maybe everything isn't so black and white?

  2. jacharless profile image82
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Personally, it is irrelevant what the actions of a subservient animal kingdom are, in relation to homo sapient {singular intellectuals; singular wisdom -actual translation of homo sapien}.

    However what most define as natural v supernatural is a religious paradoxical, noted by the unified immortality of humans, versus the definitive morality of the world around him, including animals. Nature IS the entire universe.

    Humans should be focused on that immortality, that perfected knowledge, versus animal tendencies/reactions, no doubt built into his brain in order for him to understand the kingdoms he was created to manage. Man was not originally destined to procreate, yet those abilities, that information was put in him.

    Just one perspective...


  3. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    Religion with its perfect super-human superiority is essentially alien to the planet, thus irrelevant to nature, and really belongs someplace else like heaven.

  4. Paul Wingert profile image79
    Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago

    All religion is man-made, period! "According to many Christians, homosexuality and anything that is different from what they consider to be traditional, God-ordained "common sense" and order in the human world is "unnatural." In the Bible, it's okay to accept payment from a man who just raped your virgin daughter and agree to let him marry her. How's that "common scene" or "traditional"? If I see someone working on a Sunday to support his or her fammily, these Biblical brain children say I'm suppose to stone them to death. No one has the authority to say if something is unnatrual or not. Not even a man made god.

  5. Jonathon Kennedy profile image60
    Jonathon Kennedyposted 4 years ago

    Calling something "unnatural" in order to demean it isn't exclusive to Christians, or religionists...I'm guessing it's not even exclusive to humans. On the flip side, some folks who aren't that interested in religion might see religious practices as a piece of the natural order of things to, in their mind, justify its existence. That might be seen as equally insulting to those who are religious.

    But I'm still stuck on why it would be an insult in the first place. Cupcakes aren't "natural". Art is something humanity created as well. They're both awesome. Natural things are equally joyful. Language is natural. So is bipedalism. Natural...Unnatural...they seem like compliments to me.

    Anyway, the reason this particular subset of individuals in the American-Christian community wish to demean homosexual practices as 'unnatural' (which I assume they mean "It's not a part of God's plan") is because they see God and Nature as one. And to be fair, the two are synonymous. They both impose absolute law over our world. They both 'create' and 'destroy'. They both have adversaries that are far weaker to them...(In Western/Christian philosophy this would be Satan for God and Humanity for Nature) They both connect all living things. We're connected to all things through Nature because we have DNA and we're connected to all things through God...well, that's your choice. You could be connected to them spiritually and protect the environment, or have animals as pets and plants in your garden, or reign over them as some sort of king/queen/master.

    And that's the difference between the two. For these same "Christians" homosexuality is a choice, as is everything else in life. Few believe that people choose to have homosexual temptations...most people in general probably have homosexual temptation sometime in their life...but believe it's a choice whether or not to give in to these temptations. As all homosexual practices would be considered non-procreation, this is where you arrive at the problem we're facing now. To these "Christians", homosexuals are choosing to give in to the urge to have sex strictly for the sake of sex, which they consider to be wrong because sex is only meant to be had in order to make more (probably secretly gay) babies.

    The "Nature-only" crowd doesn't have an issue with this because either

    a) they don't believe in free will
    b) they have no reason to think having sex for the sake of sex is a bad thing
    c) (the popular vote) sex is about showing love and affection toward humans, not about making more of them

    And it's why the majority of those same "Christians" want to refuse the right to abortion. They believe that if sex did not create a baby then it was completely meaningless. Many have a hard time understanding that because the meaning behind marriage has changed (from political power to love and understanding) the meaning behind sexual intercourse has also changed (from procreation to love and understanding).

    1 Corinthians 13:13 -- And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    Galatians 5:6 -- For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

    So, my own interpretation of these passages is that by choosing to have that dirty, slimy, disgusting gay marriage...you're actually doing exactly what God and Nature intended. You're using your free will to express love through whatever practice pleases you. Some people might see that as "childish" or "naive" but I'll be happy to show you a few of my other favorite quotes.

    Matthew 19:14 -- And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    "When childhood dies, its corpses are called adults and they enter society, one of the politer names of hell.  That is why we dread children, even if we love them; they show us the state of our decay." (Brian Aldiss)

    “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” (C.S. Lewis)

    So suck on that, adults and "Christians".

    You'll probably notice by now, and are possibly annoyed by the fact, that I've been putting "Christian" in quotations. That's because it is my personal belief that you shouldn't refer to someone as something that they haven't earned. I'm sure these people aren't mean or cold-hearted, but believe they are just doing what Jesus would want because they love Jesus. I love Jesus, too. I also love stars and would like to study them sometime, but nobody is calling me an astrophysicist.

    So I would ask a favor of you, if I did answer your question. (If I didn't, I apologize for wasting your time!) Stop referring to these people as Christians. If they do not believe humans should be given the legal, metaphysical and physical choice to do as they please then they are not Christ-like. They're just humans. Humans who are free to do as they please, rally against gay marriage as they please, and attempt to take away the rights of others as they please...either because a lawmaker meditated long ago and created the existence in which we live and gave them free will, or because their natural genetics and cultural heritage make them really self-centered.

  6. WryLilt profile image87
    WryLiltposted 4 years ago

    Not long ago, an interacial marriage was "noT natural."

    1. Paul Wingert profile image79
      Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this


      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Where?!? Where is a like button when you want one?

      2. SmartAndFun profile image93
        SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago in reply to this


  7. 0
    SirDentposted 4 years ago

    To the OP.  First, I want to know where in the Bible it speaks of the order of humans to be found in animals.  Please reply and show me if you can.

    1. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LoL. A bit off topic. But, ok. I don't believe there are many if any.

      Proverbs 6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise!

      That's all I could find. There are plenty that mention animal names, but they're all considerably more metaphorical.

      1. 0
        SirDentposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry for going off topic.  I will refrain from further commenting.

  8. Rhonda D Johnson profile image78
    Rhonda D Johnsonposted 4 years ago

    What is considered natural or unnatural is basically a political matter.  In our patriarchal society, that which promotes the supremacy of males is considered natural, while things like homosexuality and women's lib are considered unnatural. 

    Christians point to behaviors in animals which support their views but when you point to animal behaviors which are questionable suddenly what animals do is irrelevant. 

    In a matriarchal society, the lioness not the mother goose would be proffered as an example of what "God wants us to do."