jump to last post 1-33 of 33 discussions (233 posts)

Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?

  1. ElSeductor profile image60
    ElSeductorposted 4 years ago

    The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe.  Why can't we accept this reality?  Death is the end.  There is no heaven, and there is no hell.  We do not need religion in order to have a purpose in life.  The purpose is to survive and not harm anyone in the process.  Why do we need the fantasy of hell to keep us from doing wrong to our fellow humans?

    1. Shadesbreath profile image90
      Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You have no more evidence to prove your "reality" than adherents to various religions have for proving theirs. The only difference between their "fantasy" and your "reality" is opinion. Just because you call your opinion "reality" doesn't make it real. I can call my cat a brontosaurus, but that doesn't make it "reality."

      Furthermore, using pejoratives to diminish the opinions of others does not reduce those opinions to the status implied by the pejorative. A subtly executed insult might make people who agree with you chuckle. It will certainly make people who don't agree with you mad (and think poorly of you), and, perhaps worst of all if your point really matters in any meaningful way, it completely eliminates any possibility that you might persuade someone to consider your point of view. In essence, you reduce yourself to simply preaching to the choir. At which point one has to wonder, why bother?

      1. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Shadesbreath,

        Excellent response.  Trying to persuade religious people that there is no God is like trying to persuade Republicans to become Democrats.  At the end of the day, Republicans will do as Republicans do and Democrats will do as Democrats do.  This is what you are saying by "preaching to the choir". 

        If you do not want to listen to my views because you are insulted by the comparison I used of God to Santa, then by all means go to another hub.  However, just because you do not like the schock you get when you touch a door knob after rubbing your feet on the carpet doesn't eliminate the reality that freed electrons needed a place to go.  You may not agree with the shock.  You may not like the uncomfortable sensation of static electricity.  Yet, you cannot ignore that electricity is real. 

        R

        1. Shadesbreath profile image90
          Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Correct. You can show me that electricity is real. You can demonstrate it, so we can BOTH agree that it exists.

          You can't, however, prove to me that death is final. That is the claim you are making in your original post. If you can produce evidence that death is the absolute end and nothing happens afterwards with the same glaring obviousness that you can prove the existence of static electricity, please do so. I anxiously await the final, irrefutable demonstration of this. Just think, in the course of a forum post, you can neatly put aside the philosophical debates that have taken place throughout all time, and by some fantastically brilliant people. Please, do so at your earliest convenience.

          In the meantime...

          http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7035755_f520.jpg

          LONG LIVE BRONTOCATASAURUS!!!!

          1. ElSeductor profile image60
            ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Shadesbreath,

            One thing is for sure.  When our lives end, we will know the truth.

            In the meantime, there is no evidence that life continues beyond death.  Quite a few people have passed on, and none of them have ever contacted us.  Have they contacted you?

            R

            1. Shadesbreath profile image90
              Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No one ever contacted me from an unexplored sea cave at the bottom of some ocean somewhere either. Does that mean there are no unexplored sea caves at the bottom of some ocean somewhere?

              The point I'm getting at here, is that, while we can dance around and play word games all day, in the end, you have no more evidence that life is final than I do. It seems to me, based on your responses to others, that you really have a problem with religion.

              As you said, "When our lives end, we will know the truth." That is a reasonable thing to say. In fact, I would venture that you and I could agree that THAT is a "reality." So, at least, we've struck upon a real "reality" finally. That's progress.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry both of you are wrong. If one dies and there is life after death, you will know it. If one dies and there is not life after death, you will not know it, because you will have no consciousness. No consciousness no thought and memory.

                1. Shadesbreath profile image90
                  Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Some people say semantics are tedious, but I think they are good times.

                  1. vector7 profile image59
                    vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol, nicely said

            2. ihayaydin profile image59
              ihayaydinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              if someone contacted with you,you would certainly believe and there wouldnt be any good reason why you were created by god, human being is under a difficult exam. to  believe GOd's existence  without being contacted by them and seeing the reality is your real quiz, there are messengers and holy books of God, they are not enough? think for a while why you are living,breathing, man is not unimportant creature, not believing god is easier than believing, that needs great courage, dont worry if there is not a life after death,you wont lose anything ,but ıf there is,ı am sorry for you. ın both ways. people who believe ,will not lose

              1. 0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Why would an intelligent, emotionally mature God expect one to believe in something without adequate evidence. I mean, if he made us, he did give us brains... Only a twisted God would come up with this kind of behavior. It smells of neurosis. And whatever else I believe, I do believe that if there was a God, this kind of 'testing' would be beneath him.

                1. ElSeductor profile image60
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sophia Angelique,

                  I want to marry you.  Wait, I don't believe in marriage.  You are still awesome!!  wink

                  Great response.  You know, I would be more willing to believe in God, if believers came up to me and said.  "You must fear God because he is insane and powerful, and he can destroy you.  He is unfair and he is letting this evil dude named Satan terrorize us.  Many years ago these two humans lived on the planet.  They disobeyed God, and now he is pissed.  So, if you do not want to burn in hell, then you better believe in him.  God is angry, jealous, and insanely out of control.  He also wants everyone's attention.  Blah, blah, blah."

                  The problem I have is when people start saying that God and love go hand in hand.

                  R

                  1. 0
                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow!

                    It's an obvious deduction, but it goes back to the fact that so many of the issues that I mentioned earlier - either in this thread or another thread...

                2. phion profile image61
                  phionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  testing of ones faith is never out of the question.

              2. ElSeductor profile image60
                ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                ihayaydin,

                What is up with all of these tests?  Really. 

                "People, I will allow you to suffer.  I will allow you to be beat down.  I will allow horrible things to happen to you and your loved ones.  You must never stop believing in me or you will burn in hell.  I don't care that I created you with emotions and intelligence to ask what the point is of all of this meaninglessness.  You must believe in me no matter what or you will burn in hell.  Sure, you can question authority when it deals with other humans.  You can question your parents and teachers and government, but you cannot question me no matter how absurd your existence is.  Believe in me or burn in hell for eternity."  Really?

                Can I just leave the exam room?

                R

                1. ihayaydin profile image59
                  ihayaydinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ElSeductor
                  what do you discuss??  you dont have to believe,but you have to put up with its result,  your not believing does not concern me, go on thinking of yourself as nothing, we were born and will die one day , immortal life waits for us, you can ask this question God  when you go to hell. the first question that you will be asked "who is creator? good luck wink

    2. twosheds1 profile image61
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Two reasons: First, people want to believe that there is a point, meaning and purpose to life and that it isn't meaningless; second, people don't want to feel alone. When one is physically alone, one can not feel alone if one believes a god is watching and "with" you. Having lost my father a few years ago, I know what it's like to feel alone, to be the one who has to be the leader, the one to whom is deferred, rather than defers.

      For me, though, knowing that I am metaphysically alone and that death will indeed be the end makes my short time on Earth much sweeter. Our time is finite, so it is imperative that I make the most of my time, and every day show my wife and kids and everyone else that I love them.

      So why the hell am I wasting my life on Hub Pages? big_smile

      1. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        twosheds1,

        LOL!!!  Excellent!  I too lost my father when I was young.  Even though most people were constantly telling me, "God works in mysterious ways.  God knows why he does things. Blah, blah, blah.", none of these empty statements ever satisfied me.  At the end of the day, my dad was gone.  Period.  All of those statements came across to me as though people were telling me, "It's too bad you lost your tooth.  At least, in the morning, you will find $1 under your pillow if you place your tooth there."  Oh joy.  There is $1, but I still need to eat with one less tooth. 

        Like the story of the tooth fairy, the various religious stories related to God seem to have the purpose of providing comfort to an otherwise, seemingly lonely existence.  "We can't be alone in the universe.  Life cannot be meaningless."  We are, and it is.

        Let's focus on what we can measure.  We can measure the distances between the stars.  We can quantify volts, current, and power.  We can intelligently deduce that we are alone, at the very least, in our galaxy. 

        R

        1. twosheds1 profile image61
          twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The fact that in millennia of searching no one has found reasonable evidence of the afterlife is empirical evidence that there isn’t one.I'm reminded of when we left my son alone for the day for the first time when he was on summer break. He called me and said "I'm hungry." I replied, so, make yourself something to eat!" He'd have gotten pretty hungry if he waited for us to make him something.

    3. Titen-Sxull profile image93
      Titen-Sxullposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We're alone in the Universe?

      The hell are you on about? Have you seen the hubble deep-field images? You really think that in all those galaxies, all those stars, all those planets, there aren't other intelligent lifeforms? I mean sure for now we seem alone but we haven't explored enough of the Universe, or learned enough, to claim that we are alone and there are absolutely no gods. Such certainty is arrogant.

      As for death being the end, if you really don't understand WHY people choose to deny that and believe in afterlives then perhaps you aren't even human. The prospect of non-existence, of all our thoughts, feelings desires and dreams vanishing into simply nothing isn't exactly IDEAL. It may be the reality we are forced to face in the end but the fantasies of life beyond life are very tempting to many for OBVIOUS reasons.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think I replied to the very same post with the very same response, but unfortunately for me you have a gift for words that I do not. Please use your gift, and by gift I'm not inferring it is a gift from anyone but your parents.

        1. ElSeductor profile image60
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          LOL!!!!!  Good one!!

          R

      2. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Titen-Sxull,

        Ah, thanks for the last sentences.  There is nothing wrong with fantasies until they lead to murder, suicide, abuse, poverty, over population, etc. 

        R

      3. twosheds1 profile image61
        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think he means alone in a metaphysical sense. Of course we're not alone, there are 7 billion people on this planet, but in the sense of an omniscient, omnipresent being who watches over us at every moment, we are alone. We are the makers of our own destinies.

    4. 0
      Elizabeth Dorssomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      By believing that there is no God once has to face the reality that after death there may be nothing. This means never seeing loved ones again. This means believing that once your loved one dies, you will never see him or her again. That can be a hard thing to face, which is why people want to believe in life after death. They want to believe they can reconnect with their loved ones once again in the afterlife. It's a nice thought and, even if you don't believe in God, you cannot prove his/her existence or non-existence. No one actually knows what happens when you die except for the people that are dead (and I'm not including people who have had near-death experiences and have claimed to have seen Jesus after they died.)

      1. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ecclesiastes 1.

        "Everything is meaningless."

        R

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Death is not extinguishing the light, it is only putting out the lamp because the dawn has come."

          Rabindranath Tagore 1861-1941

          1. ElSeductor profile image60
            ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile R,

            Are we the light or the lamp?

            R

    5. MrMaranatha profile image87
      MrMaranathaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I do not know why YOU are so afraid to accept God... Perhaps you might figure it out some day if you keep working on it.  Self analytically help is sometimes the best therapy.

      1. Shadesbreath profile image90
        Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        For many people, there just isn't any logical reason to "accept god." Especially since there are so many gods to pick from. How can one possibly know which is the correct set of myths to commit to? If you pick wrong, you still burn in hell or whatever its equivalent is.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps, this comparison will help you to understand...

        We are as afraid to accept God as you are afraid to accept Islam.

        1. MrMaranatha profile image87
          MrMaranathaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Accepting Islam" is as easy as saying ~Please Dont Kill Me.. Ill worship your God if that is what you want..."  and then repeating whatever it is they are using for a recruitment phrase..

          Accepting Christ on the other hand is a little more difficult.. its actually between you and God himself... and is a life long commitment.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Uh, no one is pointing a gun your head. roll



            The same can be said about Islam. In other words, there is no fear in not accepting your god or any other god. I'm sure you have no fear in not accepting Zeus or Thor as your god, yes?

            Does the point further elude you?

          2. diyomarpandan profile image59
            diyomarpandanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. twosheds1 profile image61
              twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Plus it's the same god.

      3. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        MrMaranatha,

        I am not afraid to accept God.  I gew up as a Catholic.  Then, I became a Baptist Christian.  As a young child I could see how absurd the Catholic religion is.  How silly is it for a bunch of grown men to be dressed up in foolish costumes all kissing each others' hands?  What ever happened to the whole "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." commandment?  The pope is treated as a God by all of the Catholic people.  The Catholic church should be disbanded and all of their lands should be nationalized and turned in to parks. 

        After being a Baptist Christian for a while I realized that as much as I wanted to believe in God, there is no God.

        Sometimes I wish there was a god. That way we would have somebody to blame for all of the horrors that take place every day on this planet.

        R

    6. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I've thought about this for a long time. I think that it's difficult for many to accept that their lives are meaningless in the great scheme of things. It's quite hard work to find meaning for one's own life. There are several other reasons so I'm just going to list them.

      a) Difficult to accept there is no overall meaning to one's life.
      b) Deep need for there to be some form of social justice. So God serves the purpose of rewarding personal good and punishing the people who hurt one.
      c) Lack of control of one's own life if big events come that one has no control over - earthquakes, disease, etc. If one believes in a God, then God can intervene if s/he is your friend.
      d) Fear and despair that when one's life ends, there is nothing more. This is especially horrific if one has not lived a full life, or a life as full as one would have wanted.
      e) The need to believe that there is hope when all about it doesn't look very hopeful. If God can intervene, then there is hope for situations to change.
      f) An easy explanation to accept for things one doesn't understand. Thinking is hard work!

      Essentially, it takes a lot more courage to face these issues and be at peace with them than to accept that there is a God who will take care of it all.

      1. twosheds1 profile image61
        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's very profoud, Sophia. Very well done.

      2. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sophia Angelique,

        Beautifully stated!  Sometimes I wonder if the world would be a better place if everyone just accepted all of those things that you stated.  One thing is for sure.  We wouldn't be killing each other over a fairy tail.  That sounds like a great place to start.

        R

    7. GoldenBird profile image61
      GoldenBirdposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If God does not exist, then why did you come here to enlighten us?

      1. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        GoldenBird,

        What is your point?

        R

    8. qeyler profile image81
      qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is no G-d for atheists.  They are born without souls so are just 'male and female created he them'.  There is no reason for them to believe in what they have no part of.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Wow.

        Wow.

        How utterly condescending.

        1. qeyler profile image81
          qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not condescending, recognising fact.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps, that is the trade-off of being born with brains and having the capacity to use them, too.

      3. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I hope that was a poor attempt at a joke because if it wasn't......man. That's just sad to think there is an individual out there who would believe such as that.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Since souls have never been shown to exist, his claim is moot.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, well  whatever one thinks on the topic of souls his is still a sad philosophy.

        2. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Qeyler, just curious. I'm an atheist. How do you define souls? Sure we have a life force that gives life to us. That's apparent to everybody. What exactly is a soul? How does it differ from a life force? How does a 'soul' prove the existence of a God that personally cares for one?

          1. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
            My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            @A Troubled Man - in your case it is probably soul-less and brainless

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ahhh, isn't that cute. lol

          2. qeyler profile image81
            qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Sophia; you have no G-d.  You have nothing to think about. You have no soul.  Nothing to worry about.   That's you.

            1. Shadesbreath profile image90
              Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh goody, a troll. How nice.

            2. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              qeyler, it is a fact of life that people who make ad hominem attacks do so because when they don't have an adequate answer, they attack the person.

              I notice you've written about I.Q. and E.Q.  Apart from the fact that you don't appear to know the difference between Emotional Intelligence and Social intelligence (you should read Daniel Goleman sometime), you got your definition of I.Q. right.

              So... did you know that the people  - per capita - with the highest I.Q.s in the world are atheists, that the next in line are agnostics, and that religious people are right at the bottom in terms of intelligence...

              So, I guess if I have no soul, you don't have much in the line of intelligence.

              Q.E.D. And if you aren't educated enough to know what that means, it stands for Quod Est Demonstratum. smile

              1. Shadesbreath profile image90
                Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Don't respond to trolls and they go away. You have to just ignore their remarks, no matter how malicious or how  strategically inflammatory. Any acknowledgement of their presence is exactly what they want. (Yes, me saying this tosses some kibbles into the craw of the creature, but I thought it best to try to get ahead of it before it stirs everyone up. It's got a very nice angle for a troll, which is highly likely to suck in folks who aren't watching closely.)

                1. qeyler profile image81
                  qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, I'm not a Troll.  I have cut away all the frills of the argument.  You have on one side the Xian posse and on the other side the Atheists.  There are a hundred threads carrying this debate on and on.   

                  The point is there is absolutely no reason for a Xian and an Atheist to argue over anything. 

                  The thing I find remarkable is the advocacy of atheism but feeling upset if someone should suggest one has no soul.  What use is a Soul for an Atheist?  What would that soul be connected to?  Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies?

                  1. ElSeductor profile image60
                    ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    qyeler,

                    What use is a Soul for an Atheist?  A soul is passion, passion for life, passion for love, passion for work, passion for art, passion for music, passion for standing up against ignorance, passion to fight for the well being of everyone on the planet, etc.

                    What would that soul be connected to?  Passion is everywhere.

                    Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies?  What happens to fire when you put it out? Who cares?  All that matters is that it burned.

                    R

                  2. 0
                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Geyler... smile

                    Your Quote: "The thing I find remarkable is the advocacy of atheism but feeling upset if someone should suggest one has no soul.  What use is a Soul for an Atheist?  What would that soul be connected to?  Where would that Soul go when the Atheist dies?"

                    Let me be quite clear here. I am not in the least upset. I'm amused that anyone is so willing to expose their own ignorance in such a public place. That's why I have asked you for chapter and verse - so that you can expose your own ignorance...

                    You have not given me chapter and verse. Why? Because there isn't one.

                    Nor have you shown me where you get this doctrine from? Why? Certainly none of the church fathers ever taught it.

                    Upset? Absolutely not. Just incredibly amused that someone can reveal himself to be so incredibly ignorant and have no problem showing it.

                    But then the old saying is fools rush in where angels fear to tread...

                2. ElSeductor profile image60
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Trolls?  Are you Charlie Sheen?

                  R

              2. qeyler profile image81
                qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Sophie, you said you were an atheist.  This means you do  believe there is no Higher Being, no Heaven, no Life After Death.  That is what atheist means.  Hence, for you, there is no G-d, for you there is no soul, for you there is no afterlife.  That it what it means to be an Atheist. 

                The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being.  What use is a soul to an Atheist?

                1. 0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  YOUR QUOTE: "The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being.  What use is a soul to an Atheist?"

                  Please give me the chapter and verse in the bible where it says exactly that God created some people with souls and other people without souls?

                  Just for the record...

                  a) I went to a church school where I went to chapel in the morning, chapel in the evening and morning service and evening service on Sundays. I was baptized and confirmed in the church. I had a lot of religious teaching during my years at school.

                  b) I spent ten long years as a born-again Christian between the ages of 25 and 35. During that time, I once read the bible from Genesis Chapter One through to Revelations 22 eighteen times in eighteen months. And, in those days, i had a pretty good memory. You could quote a verse and I could tell you exactly where it was - more or less - in the bible.

                  c) In addition, I read and studied the bible about two or three hours each day for a full decade;

                  d) I prayed on my knees another two or three hours each day. I recall one guy saying to me that in church service he could see I was the only one really praying.

                  e) I attended church twice on Sundays, prayer meetings once or twice a week, plus various bible studies.

                  f) I had no time for anything other than God and work. I had no social life during that period.

                  g) In the last few years of my attending church, because there were so many contradictions in the bible, and because the various pastors, priests, and ministers couldn't answer them, I started studying the secular history of the church. To my consternation, I found that the church is mostly built on a bunch of lies, myths, and misinformation. In fact, there are thousands of bible before print that contradict each other. The most accurate and closest to the early church is the Greek Orthodox bible - which, of course, contradicts the kind of Christianity taught in America (a fairly modern incarnation).

                  h) After I left the church with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of the ignorance and evil of people in the church, I started studying other things because I have always been able to feel a life force. Some people would call me mediumistic or a mystic. The shamans of Africa tell me I have tremendous power. Men in England used to tell me I was 'overwhelmingly powerful.' Just the energy emanating from me. I needed answers for much of my experience that had led me believe there was a God, and which I discovered the hard way, there wasn't.

                  i) I eventually converted to Judaism (my late father was Jewish). I was quite open with the Rabbi that I had no belief in God. Unusually, for whatever reason, I was permitted 'on the Bimah' throughout my conversion period (a year) while none of the other converts were. Immediately after that, I was elected to the committee of the synagogue (the most wealthy synagogue in the country). Again, it is highly unusual for someone who has just been converted to be elected to the committee as it is generally people who have served in synagogues for decades. Why? My knowledge of Torah and spiritual law was considered rare. That has also been confirmed by various Christian ministers who hold doctorates.

                  j) One of the advantages of converting to Judaism is that one has to learn Hebrew. I was able to read Torah in Hebrew (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deut. & Numbers). It is quite different to how the Christian bible is interpreted. That goes for Isaiah as well.

                  So now, let's talk, Geyler.

                  You said, as an atheist, I have no soul. I want the chapter and verse in the bible.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sophia, very interesting, but I think you may have missed the point. What I think he/she was saying is that as an atheist you should think we have no soul as a soul is a link to God. Without God you have no link. He/she most likely think all people have souls, while atheists think we don't.

                    That being said, I am curious as to why you would join Judaism if you feel there is no God at all. Do you like the belonging feeling? Why would you join another Religion that is just as fraudulent as the last? And why spend so much time and energy reading the Torah if deep down inside you think you feel the entire premiss of the book is fraudulent?

                2. twosheds1 profile image61
                  twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So by your logic, q, if atheists suddenly saw the light and were born again, they would suddenly be given souls? If a Xtian became an atheist, would he lose his soul? How would you regain it? Soul food? Does god keep your soul in escrow in case you come back?

                3. ElSeductor profile image60
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  qeyler,

                  "What good is a soul to an atheist?"  You have obviously never listened to music.  Soul is passion. 

                  R

              3. qeyler profile image81
                qeylerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And as an addenda; what does 'soul' have to do with Intelligence?  Are you sure you are an Atheist?

      4. Trichakra profile image61
        Trichakraposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Agree with you. There is no G-d for atheists

    9. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Because God exists.

    10. 0
      Lybrahposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      God exists, and he loves you very much.  Start reading the Message (New Testament) so you can learn everything about Jesus.

      1. 0
        riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why can't you read Quran instead and know about god himself?

    11. Edward322 profile image61
      Edward322posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      YOUR QUOTE: "The whole idea of 'soul' is that which is a connection to a Higher Being.  What use is a soul to an Atheist?"

      Please give me the chapter and verse in the bible where it says exactly that God created some people with souls and other people without souls?

    12. 60
      Willifordposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      wow right on dude..i find that it is weak minded people that have to have god in there life..

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    Why does anyone need to believe anything? Why do you need to believe we are alone in this eternal, dark and cold universe? If I was going to choose something to believe, I'm not sure that would be my first choice. Why can't you accept reality? There are more possibilities than the one you chose to believe in.

    I kind of agree with the rest.

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is not that I am choosing to believe that we are alone in the universe.  As far as science has been able to tell, we are alone.  The universe has been around for a very long time.  In that time, no other life forms, that we know of, have come to Earth.  Also, for as long as we have been sending signals out into space with the hope of getting a response from other life forms, we have yet to find life.

      The recent landing of the Mars rover, Curiosity, is exciting.  The mission is find life, any evidence of life.  Until that happens, we are alone. 

      R

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That is your belief. You are welcome to it. I disagree.

        I read an article the other day that said scientists believe life on earth developed more quickly than makes sense, with what we know. They believe that the chances of life on any planet in the universe having developed to the stage we have is unlikely. But, that is some scientists.

        Stop believing everything you hear. They are possibilities. Nothing more. I think it is rather exciting that we have more to discover than we already know. I've often wondered what causes people to jump to conclusions. Especially conclusions as dismal as the beliefs you claim to hold.

        1. ElSeductor profile image60
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Emile R,

          I like your fiery spirit!

          Believing or not believing does not change what is or isn't.  1 billion people can believe that there is this righteous being out there who created us and is watching everything we are doing.  The same amount of people can also believe that there is this evil being who brings corruption and suffering to everyone.  Only believing in the good being will save us from the evil being.  That's a nice story, but believing it doesn't make it true.

          We can conduct 1 billion experiments, and if each time we arrive at the same conclusion, then the conclusion becomes valid. The difference is that there is nothing to believe.  The conclusion simply is, whether we like it or not and whether we believe it or not.

          R

    2. 60
      Willifordposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      do you see what your saying? it is a belief that is all !!

  3. Xenonlit profile image60
    Xenonlitposted 4 years ago

    Who is afraid? We just don't want to or choose to buy into that argument.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting choice of words. You "just don't want or choose to buy into that argument." Of course you don't want to. It's more fun to think you will live for eternity in heaven. Reality sucks, but I think it's better than a delusion. It was a bitter pill to swallow when one realizes the is no Santa, and it's a bigger pill to swallow when you realize your parents have been lying to you about Santa. If you were lied to about Santa what else were you lied to about? The tooth fairy? The Easter Bunny? Then here you are as an adult and still clinging to the delusion of a God. You've been lied to again, but this one is harder to deny because it comes with baggage. It makes you feel better about dyeing, which we all have to do. A bite from the tree of knowledge is bitter sweet because reality can be painful, but at least your not living your life for a future that does not exist.

      1. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Rad Man,

        Excellent response.  You said it.  It definitely is more comforting to believe that once we die we will go to this special place and live forever in peace and harmony. 

        Like you, I believe that facing the truth is better than living a fantasy.  How many religions have come about on this planet because of false beliefs?  When you think of how these religions got started, it is amazing that we have let go of Santa and not religions.  Let's take a look at some of these beliefs:

        Catholics/Christians:  God made Adam.  Then he made Eve using one of Adam's ribs.  Adam and Eve disobeyed God and now we are all suffering.

        Mormons:  An angel came and spoke to Joseph Smith.  The angel gave him some gold tablets containing the rest of the bible.  Of course, nobody can see those tablets.

        Islam/Muslim:  The prophet Mohammed was taken into heaven, or something like that, and given holy scriptures. 

        These stories seem far fetched.  Yet, humans believe this stuff to the point of killing others who do not agree with them.  Why don't we look at what we do know.  We know that the universe is vast.  We know that in our lifetime we will not reach other galaxies.  As far as we can tell, there is no life in our galaxy.

        Let's stop being afraid, and let's accept that death is the end of what we know to be life.  Where were you before you were born?  That's exactly where we're going when we die.

        R

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You are one dreary fellow. No wonder studies show a higher suicide rate among atheists. Lighten up. The beliefs of the religious are no more far fetched than your own. Anyone who believes they know anything on a cosmic scale is deluding themselves.

          1. ElSeductor profile image60
            ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Emile R,

            I disagree that I am "dreary".  If you read my profile page you will quickly learn that I live quite an exciting life.

            The difference between science and religion is that you do not see scientists killing other people because they do not believe that electrons are real. 

            I wouldn't have a problem with religion if it didn't cause all of the problems that it causes (e.g. over population, murder, suicide, famine, poverty, abuse, ignorance, etc.)

            R

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I wouldn't have a problem with extreme anti religion atheism if it wasn't a pie in the sky philosophy. If religion causes all of those problems I would think nations who attempted to forcibly stamp out religion wouldn't have suffered from any of the maladies you listed. Sadly, I think history proves otherwise.

              1. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
                My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Scientists don't kill?  They just invent bombs and every other way to kill.  How many did the A-Bomb kill?  It was invented for the sole purpose of killing, so don't be spouting that scientists don't kill.  They have had their hand in far more killing than religious people have and it only takes one of them to kill a million or more.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If you aren't going to read what I post, it would make sense not to post a reply. What are you blathering about?

                2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Did a scientist order the A-Bomb dropped? Wasn't Harry Truman a Southern Baptist?

                  If you have such a hatred of scientists and what they've provided us, why are you not living in a cave? Why are you using a computer and internet connection? Did you ever visit a doctor? How about everything else you rely on to live your life?

                  All of these things were a result of a scientist working diligently.

                  1. twosheds1 profile image61
                    twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually, ATM, living in a cave would require science: by experimentation, you would learn that you can be more comfortable living in some sort of shelter..

                3. gmwilliams profile image86
                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed!

              2. ElSeductor profile image60
                ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Emile R,

                It helps to give specific examples.

                Here is an example of how religion, namely the Catholic church creates the following "maladies":

                That catholic church states that it is a sin to use contraceptives.  As a result, third world countries produce more children than they can afford to feed.  Too many mouths to feed leads to poverty and famine.  Poverty often leads to criminal activities which often involve murder.  Poverty and its conditions also lead to suicide.  When people are poor and worrying about what to eat, they rarely focus on educating themselves which leads to ignorance.

                R

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          A look at what we do know:
          ElSeductor wrote: We know that the universe is vast.
          Me: Correct.

          ElSeductor wrote: We know that in our lifetime we will not reach other galaxies.
          Me: We won't even reach another star let alone galaxy. We will reach them with technology. With various kinds of telescopes.

          ElSeductor wrote: As far as we can tell, there is no life in our galaxy.
          Me: Most likely there is other life in our galaxy, we could even find life in our solar system, but it won't be intelligent. But with the number of star in our Galaxy and the number of planets around the stars the odds are there is lots and lots of life out there. These stars and planets are however way to far for us to visit. We could however detect there radio signals.

  4. ElSeductor profile image60
    ElSeductorposted 4 years ago

    Xenonlit,

    It is not an argument.  It is truth.  The truth is that Santa Clause doesn't exist.  There is no argument, because it is the truth.  The same is true for God.  There is no God, so there is no argument.

    1. 60
      Willifordposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      i will say this .. dopamine!!  with out it there is nothing our brains make this chemical it gives us the ability  to get out of bed in the morning to seek work a women or a man for pleasure to go do things with our friends..  there is no god ..  wake the fuck up people!!  where is your hart?  in your chest? is thaT WERE YOUR SOUL IS  ?  i can keep you alive and thinking with out a body..
      you are all victims of your own minds..  people are so stupid.. wtf you think got you your fucking car? home?  job? bank account?  god?  fuck no!!  your all fucking hypocrites ..

  5. vector7 profile image59
    vector7posted 4 years ago

    It is the very existence of wrong that proves God is there.

    All of the universe operates without a deceptive action one. But point your observation to this earth and all of a sudden the information is corrupt, and things said are not true?

    That is called destructive material in data terms. The rest of the universe has no negative aspects of deception. The communication between every medium in the universe, apart from life on earth, is truthful in every manner.

    Now take a look at our corrupt earth. The corruption came from somewhere. If that isn't obvious to you I'd being writing a 900 word post to try to spell it out.

    There are systems in the universe that operate perfectly, and the data and "communication" contains no flaws. There are systems here on earth that exist as well and the data is never perfect and the communication is always flawed.

    There is not one good use for a lie. If people were always truthful and loved each other we would have no problems. Deceit and greed cause corruption and hatred. It is not natural...

    If you think it is natural then you didn't fight in a war and walk the front line.

    God is there, I know He is, and He is reading the words you type and the thoughts you think.


    And Santa is another lie made up as well, giving a good example that lies are useless and that analogy proves nothing concerning God besides the point I've been making from the beginning of this post.

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      vector 7,

      You say that deception and lies are not "natural".  That is not an accurate statement.  There are creatures here on Earth, besides humans, that practice deception all the time.

      For example, there are sea creatures that mislead (deceive) their prey in order to eat them.  Deception is a natural part of life.  Or are you suggesting that Satan has corrupted sea creatures?

      You also said that you know God is hear reading every word I type.  Why isn't he instead looking after innocent children who die every day of hunger.  In my opinion, getting those children some food is much more important than what I am typing on this blog.

      R

      1. tjp profile image61
        tjpposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In your last paragraph you responded to someones comment about God reading what you're typing. It wasn't me who said this, but I'd like to weigh in on your response.

        It is possible that God is reading what you're typing, since he lives in our spirit. And there are good people working through the holy spirit who chose to help those in need. That would mean that God is helping.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Who exactly is God helping? Starving Children? Victims of Child abuse? Chronically ill?

        2. vector7 profile image59
          vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well said tjp.

          What is done unto the least of these, is done by God.

      2. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You'll have to take that up with God sir, in the meantime lets get back to the main subject shall we?

        You are comparing human behaviour to the behaviour of animals to attempt to naturalise what happens. But the thing is you are looking from a different place to begin with.

        If you look from a "no God" perspective your analogy works fine.

        If you look from a "there is a God" perspective then it does not.


        For the "there is a God" perspective we have the Bible because it is unprecedented and I'll not bicker about that, that is understood by the finest minds in history.

        In the beginning, animals did not eat each other and vegetation provided food for all living animals. Humans didn't die because they weren't imperfect, and you didn't need to kill any breathing animals in the garden of Eden to eat, there were more fruits and veggies to eat than one can imagine I'm sure.

        If God plants a garden, you can bet it's better than the crap you've seen on tv or even walked through.

        So how natural is it to kill? And lie? And steal?

        Would a perfect being deceive someone? How can perfection include deceit? When deceit brings about misunderstanding, and confusion? And confusion brings about chaos and destruction?

        It's not natural. It is of a common occurance today, and that is what you are observing and setting the standard by. But this day and time is not when the standard for "natural" was set in place, that was done in the beginning.

        1. ElSeductor profile image60
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          vector7,

          Going back to the bible for a second.  Why doesn't it address dinosaurs?  Shadesbreath might like to chime in right about now.

          R

          1. vector7 profile image59
            vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It does in the book of Job indirectly, but other than that why would it? It doesn't name off hundreds of animals that exist or existed but we don't question the Bible over them.

            The accounts I mention are often shunned off as some "other" animal and they attempt to make it sound "believable" or to make it fit their needs.

            The fact remains though that descriptions such as a "tail like a cedar" (paraphrasing here) do not fit any animal in the world save those of massive proportions, namely, dinosaurs.

            If you search the internet you will also find that bones have been found with marrow and blood cells still in tack.

            This resolves the debate and people try to pick it apart and make the discoveries match what they like, but the fact remains dinosaurs are not, and never were millions of years old. The earth is not millions of years old either, and evolution is not true.

            The evolution they've shown in bacteria is "loss" of traits, not gaining them which is what makes them immune to certain medications. The bacteria have not evolved, they in essence got their hands cut off and thus can't be handcuffed any longer for a relevant simple analogy.

            The facts line up concerning the Bible, but the truth isn't popular, and being a Christian isn't easy because people feel God caused all the pain they feel. The subject is deep, complex, and full of ranges of perceptions and lifestyles. But the end conclusion is, and always will be, the same...

            God exists, and it's not easy to see because this world is an ocean of deceit and lies and to find the truth it takes work to sort out the falsehoods.

            God works in mysterious ways, and I for one wish I had better ways of explaining them because I know He is there.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If the Flintstones is really a documentary as creationists believe, why is it that people were not wiped out by T-Rex and velociraptor? Why don't dinosaurs appear on cave paintings instead of deer and buffalo? Why don't the world's disparate cultures describe them in detail? How can you credibly point at "tail like a cedar" and say that single phrases nullifies evolution and validates creationism. And if these claims of dino bones still containing marrow and blood cells were true, why has Christendom not submitted them to independent genetic testing with at least three renowned labs with a reputation for integrity and objectivity.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do you really believe that the world is not old and a few thousand years ago man walk side by side with dinosaurs. Really?

              When every bit of evidence ever collected says dinosaurs haven't been around for millions of years. No evidence has ever been dated to a few thousand years ago. None, ever. Science cares not for religion so it has no reason to lie. All the various kinds of dating and they all date way way back. No modern humans have been dated back before 200,000 years. Ever.

              But because you have a book that is a few thousand years and says the world is only a few thousand years old, you'll go with what the book says.

              Someone needs a reality check.

              1. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
                My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                In the really old days, a month was called a year.  Who knows maybe a day was, so you have to remember how people thought and talked in the times these things were written down.

            3. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
              My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Also, "Tall like a cedar"  could mean what a cedar grew to at that time or even giraffes.I believe in God and I believe in evolution also.
              If you remember your bible correctly, when Cain killed Abel, Cain was sent to live among the Gentiles.  Who were the Gentiles?  My personal belief is that the Gentiles were humans that evolved, Adam and Eve were the first to know God.  It is illogical to believe that Adam and Eve spawned every human today.  Wouldn't we all be a bunch of  deformed idiots?  Of course maybe we are compared to them.  The bible is a guide to live by.  It does not apply the same to everyone, everywhere, the same.

            4. ElSeductor profile image60
              ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              vector7,

              "God works in mysterious ways...." is generally the answer given when people cannot explain God and his actions.

              R

          2. Shadesbreath profile image90
            Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Way too many holes in that argument. To deal with them all would require a reply longer than anyone would read or than I care to write. You opened up the debate, you can work through that sort of thing if you like.

            1. ElSeductor profile image60
              ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Shadesbreath,

              "Way too many holes in that argument."  Just say, "I don't know."

              R

          3. 0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The Bible doesn't address a lot of things. Was the point of the various books to address everything under the sun? I thought it was a book attempting to detail God's interaction with Man, and Man's reaction to that interaction. I suppose if Man had been avoiding the T Rex about that time the T Rex would have been mentioned.

            Genesis was meant to be nothing more than a broad stroke synopsis of history prior to the time of Moses.  Highlighting only the points the writers considered important to the relationship they believed existed between God and their line of Man.

      3. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ElSeductor,

        I looked at your page, and I believe I'm mistaken in calling your sir. Forgive the mistake if it was incorrect.

  6. jacharless profile image82
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    James.

  7. tjp profile image61
    tjpposted 4 years ago

    How can you dis-credit so many first hand accounts of the after-life? So, you think you can dis-prove this? Oh, that's cool too. But, if it happened to you or someone close to, would you be as quick to try to prove that there is no heaven or hell?

    Some of the most popular scientists in the world didn't think we were alone in this universe or any other. If there is no God then you are essentially saying there is no creator. We didn't come from nothing. And as sure as there is a source for me writing this then I'm pretty certain there is a source that created me too.

    We can make the argument that we came from monkeys. But, then we'd have to discuss where monkeys come from. It goes on and on and so does the universe. So, I personally won't make any bold claims saying there is no God. We all have opinions, we just have to back them up with our thoughts and reasons why we come to these conclusions.

  8. Sadtau-wania profile image60
    Sadtau-waniaposted 4 years ago

    ahh!!! the bitter reality is that There will be a Day of Judgment  for our rights  and wrongs

    HE is the ONLY ONe who created all Universe(GOD)
    Can you imagine to make a FLY like HIS  Creation(Obviously Not)
    Thinking  out of the box and exploring wonderful universe will definitly lead all to  accept the PRESENCE of GOD

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nope. That's narrow minded thinking.

  9. Sadtau-wania profile image60
    Sadtau-waniaposted 4 years ago

    Dear!!! No one is  wrong according to their own belief

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Of course you can be wrong with ones own beliefs. Was Mohammad a prophet? The muslims say no and the christians say yes. One or both of them must be wrong. The Christian's say Jesus is the son of God and the Jews say he was not. Both can't be correct. If I say there is no God do you think I am wrong?

      1. Shadesbreath profile image90
        Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think you have your Muslims and your Christians mixed up.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ha ha aha ha. I have a lot of things mixed up. Thanks.

          1. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
            My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mohammed was a prophet to the Muslims and Jesus is the son of God for Christians.  They can both be right.

    2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And that's maybe why the powers 'that be' are laughing at us all.

    3. tjp profile image61
      tjpposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Certainly, everyone is wrong; it's just a matter of how wrong.

  10. Sadtau-wania profile image60
    Sadtau-waniaposted 4 years ago

    who created this world? he made it  beautiful  for us at  the  start of Adam and Eve
    and humans just made it filthy with their action

  11. Idiyatu Akande profile image64
    Idiyatu Akandeposted 4 years ago

    Please read this article I wrote on how to trust God:http://m.voices.yahoo.com/three-basic-steps-trusting-god-guide-non-11670750.html


    Sent from my iPhone

  12. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?

    The concept, ideology or the perspective as to whether or not God exists is based on man's limited understanding of life itself. Mankind is known to be flawed and constantly make mistakes so unless there is some sort of definitive proof that no deity exist than God remains on the table.

    In regards to the question "Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?" Because if man is wrong then the price for not having believed will be far greater than we will ever know.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      When believers make statements of faith that are not true in reality in order to support that faith, it is easy to accept there is no God. Believers are Gods worst enemies in that regard.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A Trouble Man,

        Without question some believers misrepresent their fate and also make mistakes. The Christian faith however is not placing demands on you or those who think like you to believe, God is only looking for those who willingly trust in the existence of God.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So, you are saying God only looks for the gullible? Sounds like a marketing ploy to me. Do you realize how silly that sounds?

          1. SpanStar profile image60
            SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you don't believe nobody is asking you to!

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I see... you don't want anyone to think for themselves. According to you, God and YOU only look to the gullible. Can you guys all get together, I've got some land in Florida I'd love to sell cheap.

              1. SpanStar profile image60
                SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It is my hope that you keep that land in Florida and those who think like you all come together and occupy that land and stop worrying about us believers.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Stop worrying about you believers? I don't think we knock on your doors as you do ours.

                  1. jacharless profile image82
                    jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Am curious, Rad, and please be 100% honest.
                    When is/was the precise "last time" a "believer" knocked on your door?

                    James.

                2. ElSeductor profile image60
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  SpanStar,

                  We will stop worrying about believers when your religions stop causing so much suffering on this planet.  Perhaps it is the believers who should go live on that land with their ignorance, poverty, abuse, murder, suicide, and famine and leave the rest of us alone to live in peace.

                  R

                  1. SpanStar profile image60
                    SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I believe one will find more nonbelievers in the daily practice of criticizing believers hub pages, articles then you will find believers criticizing nonbelievers hub pages, articles if nonbelievers have even created any so your perspective on who is bothering whom seems to be wrong.

            2. ElSeductor profile image60
              ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              SpanStar,

              You have obviously never been visited by Jehova's Witnesses or Mormon and Christian missionaries.

              R

              1. SpanStar profile image60
                SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Obviously you are wrong. I am quite certain there are a number of people who have been visited by Jehovah witnesses and clearly they don't act as immature as some so-called adults who

        2. ElSeductor profile image60
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          SpanStar,

          He is also saying that everyone who doesn't believe in him will go to hell.  I often wonder if people who say that they believe in God do so out of goodness or out of the fear that they will burn in hell forever.  If there was a God, then even he knows that humans must be threatened in order to behave themselves. 

          R

          1. SpanStar profile image60
            SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            ElSeductor,
            Why is it that when certain people talk about God is old so terrible, an awful being THEN completely ignore humans raping, torturing, murdering, stealing, lying, hating, warring. And we have the gall to stand in judgment of others.

  13. Idiyatu Akande profile image64
    Idiyatu Akandeposted 4 years ago

    I really appreciate the author of this post because of your heart behind it. You're right we shouldn't need fantasy of hell to do right. We should just do right. I didn't believe in God totally until I studied the bible, the standard Bible. From the bible I was able to see the past in the present. Also I realized that faith is not attainable by common sense, it's spiritual. I would like every none believer to study the bible and randomly pray that the truth about life be revealed through his word .

    1. Shadesbreath profile image90
      Shadesbreathposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with a lot of this. Goodness is the essence of it. I think that the Bible has in it many useful ideas about how to find inner peace. There is fabulous wisdom in it (if you can get past the barbaric stuff, obviously). You can find the same sort of insight in many of the world religions, even the older ones that aren't popular anymore, in particular Greek and Roman mythology (which had significant impact on the Bible). The stories cover the same issues. In the end, happiness is about doing right. It's about honor and compassion and humility. It's about doing good things for others. Too many people get caught up in fighting over which religion is "right" and they miss the whole point of why the religion exists.

    2. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Idiyatu Akande,

      I studied the bible for many years.  I admit that there is great wisdom in the bible.  There is also great wisdom in plenty of other books that have nothing to do with religion.  At the end of the day, I think we'd all be better off if we adhered to the wisdom in the bible without the whole God thing.

      R

  14. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago

    It's interesting.  To accept that there is no God (from what I understand of your OP) is to accept that there is no meaning to life.

    That it begins from nothing and ends into the same.

    So, every human being in the world is a meaningless collection of cells with absolutely no purpose whatsoever?

    I bet you children don't think their parents' lives are meaningless.  I bet families full of people who love each other, sacrifice for each other, learn from each other while learning HOW to learn from others, who   help others around them who are less fortunate - all think that life is meaningless.

    Why does a life without God have to be meaningless and moving toward a final nothingness? 

    If that's what you truly believe life is, it's no wonder you can't conceive of a God.  But, I know others who don't believe that God exists who also believe that their lives are full of meaning.

    Maybe that's why people can't accept that there is no God.  Maybe we believe in God because we believe in (and see around us constantly) an inherent meaning and purpose in our lives - not because we're searching for those things.

    Maybe I'm just betting on the Big Guy because he's someone I will someday be able to thank for this wonderful, meaningful life I've led and am living.  Maybe you're not because you're convinced that nothing means anything and you don't want to be convinced otherwise because it might force you to take responsibility for a life you've left pretty much un-lived till now.

    Just my two cents.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Once again, well said! You've been coming up with some good ones lately.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks, ATM.  smile

    2. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
      My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I would say that was more like a gold dollars worth Motown.
      I think everyone believes in God, just some of us call him science.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks, MME!  Fact is, many of us simply look for ways to understand our world and our lives.  Some of us do so through religion, others through science, but it is a rare soul who doesn't do it at all.  It's choosing to have a meaningless life because a meaningful one is too much effort that makes me sad.  It does not take a belief in God to have a meaningful life - and, imo, many who don't believe would argue that point vehemently.

        smile

  15. Drax profile image74
    Draxposted 4 years ago

    .. but are we afraid, really.. ?
    is it not a matter of trying to blend in / live in harmony (to some extent) with the believers rather than insisting someone cuts their heads off since we are so tired of hearing the mumbo jumbo they have been speaking for x thousand years...

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Drax,

      Living in harmony?  Have you seen what people in the Middle East are doing to others?

      R

  16. 0
    summerberrieposted 4 years ago

    I'm not sure people are afraid to believe there is no God. For those of us who believe there is a God, God becomes "real" to us. It is like saying why are you afraid on not believing your husband, wife or kids  are not real. It is not a matter of fear it is a matter of our personal reality.

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      summerberrie,

      I do not understand what you mean.

      R

  17. Hollie Thomas profile image61
    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago

    This seems like a daft question to me, and I'm an atheist. To the OP, you're asking people to accept what you believe to be the truth. The conclusions that YOU have drawn from your life and your learning, they are not universal, without doubt or proven. When we we all learn some tolerance?

    1. 0
      summerberrieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree Hollie Thomas. Using our own life experiences to intimidate others into either believing there is a God or that God does not exist is disrespectful and lacks tolerance. Christians' and atheists' core beliefs are in direct opposition to each other, but that does not mean each individual life experience deserves to be valued differently. One should not take precedent over the other.  I can not superimpose my faith in God on others. If I attempted to do that all I really am doing is saying my collection of life experiences is superior to yours which is a lie.

      1. My Minds Eye53 profile image61
        My Minds Eye53posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I believe in God, but if someone tried to ram it down my throat, I would walk away.  I would resist the very thing they want me to believe. 
        I was taught to teach by actions.  I have friends who are atheists. We do not try to convert the each other.  Even though I told my one friend that he can't stop me from praying for him.  His answer?  "Oh I want you to pray for me..... just in case I am wrong."

        1. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My Minds Eye53, and that's real love! It stems from acceptance of others, regardless of what and whom they are. smile

      2. ElSeductor profile image60
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        summerberrie,

        Do we tolerate murder?  Yet some people, because of their life experiences, end up killing others.  Are our life experiences superior to the life experiences of the murderer?

        The same goes for religion.  Religion is the cause of much suffering on this planet.  Why should we tolerate it?

        R

  18. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 4 years ago

    I ask myself why anyone cares what I believe in ? at all.

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Eaglekiwi,

      You can believe whatever you want, as long as it doesn't affect the rest of us.  Religion affects everyone.

      Did you all hear about the Dodgers fans who beat up the Giants fan?  There is nothing wrong with being a Dodgers fan.  There is, however, something wrong with beating up somebody who doesn't like your team.  If Dodgers fans kept popping out babies that they couldn't afford as a direct result of being Dodgers fans, we would all have a problem with that.  (They pop out babies like crazy, but it is because they are Catholics.)   

      R

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I hear what you are trying to convey ,but honestly everyone influences someone sometime. It may be due to their religion or lifestyle,or it may be (which is often more the case) the individual.

        I accept the truth that much harm has been done in the name of the Church ie God ,but equally important and much less taunted in a forum  online is Churches who do good for society,in particular the poor,sick,destitute.

        I have also known many Christians who quietly without fanfare work daily to serve their fellowman.So for every person you see or hear beating their chest and playing up for the cameras, there are counter servants who serve humbly and are in line with Christs commandment to 'serve their fellowman' God instructs to do so in humilty and Not to seek glory.

        These people are the ones I respect and learn from.

        The others -well God said in the Bible ,they have already had their reward here on earth ie Attention and praise. There will not be another.

        Now even though some may stand on the sidelines and analyze  and perhaps criticize their reasons for doing so ,the action nevertheless is an outreach of their personal faith and benefits the server and the receiver (Also takes the burden of the Government and taxpayer) whom would rather ignore the problems poverty brings..

  19. HattieMattieMae profile image69
    HattieMattieMaeposted 4 years ago

    Just depends on who you are an what you've experienced in life. For you there may not be a higher power or God, for others we know it's very real. Perhaps you're just here at the moment learning the lessons you wanted to and chose your self being the atheist and having that perspective.

  20. Annsalo profile image83
    Annsaloposted 4 years ago

    Religion makes some feel whole and complete. If it works for them I don't see why they would need to accept any different. Beliefs or lack of should be determined by what makes each person feel right.

  21. ocbill profile image76
    ocbillposted 4 years ago

    "The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe"

    Like the UFO skeptics say " show me the proof we are alone". 

    You made a completely non-researched statement. Over 40,000 planets and possibly billions of galaxies. I could go on & on but you'll need the basic 101 class.

    1. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ocbill,

      As recently as today, we have not found life outside of Earth. 

      R

      1. ocbill profile image76
        ocbillposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It probably as not been disclosed as many in the US govt say it would "destabilize society"  http://bit.ly/PaTrDw.
        should we just dismiss the testimonies of high ranking military officials from around the world, commercial airline pilots, military pilots, Gov. of Arizona, astronauts, other countries official govts who acknowledge that UFO's exist and  extra-terrestrials.   I know I sound crazy, (x-file music is gettign louder, etc)  Just look into it yourself when you have a few minutes, which will turn into an hour or so.  Disclosures and Revelations on Youtube. Hear White House Chief John Podesta request that our secret agency release the info.

        That;s all from me. I know I am getting some sighs and eyes rolling over like the news anchors do when they talk about UFOs. It is what it is. Anyway, God can stil exist if there is other life far away as some passages in the Old testament bible disclose this.

  22. The Invincible profile image61
    The Invincibleposted 4 years ago

    God is there..He is omnipresent! We as Homo Sapiens will come and go, but the Supreme Power will be there forever.... Make sure you know all this.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We would be interested in knowing that, if it actually had an inkling of truth behind it. If there is something you know that we don't, please share it with us.

      1. The Invincible profile image61
        The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Dear Troubled Man, Why do even wana take the troubles of knowing all this... It's time to do away with all your troubles and change your username, if possible.

        As far as the thread is concerned, I am not supposed to teach you philosophy or all that crap for that matter, just to cajole you into believing the Almighty!
        Just know the reason for your mere existence in this world... You would know, if there is anything called as "God" !

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why do believers constantly focus on the individual instead of the subject matter? What is the obsession with you folks?



          Gibberish.

          1. The Invincible profile image61
            The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I can see where your 'user name' came from...

            God Bless!

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, and I see you are be compelled to insult me personally with my user name and then have the audacity to say "God Bless" - Your God is going to remember that and will judge you accordingly.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      How can we know?  Without evidence, should we simply make the decision that it is true without actually knowing?  Should we believe just because we don't want to die or because we want a father figure?  That's not knowing though - it's just believing without evidence.

      1. The Invincible profile image61
        The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There is no compulsion....sorry for my last statement "Make sure you know all this"
        Many forums and threads have already been created and dumped one after another on HubPages, debating whether God even exists. I wrote what i believe... And what evidence are you talking about? This World and everything taking place here itself is an evidence...

    3. twosheds1 profile image61
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You're right! Thor's mighty hammer will always crush the non-believers!

      1. 0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Funny! I also thought of Thor and all the other Gods of Old when i saw that statement!

    4. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Invincible,

      I have no problem with you believing this, "God is there..He is omnipresent! We as Homo Sapiens will come and go, but the Supreme Power will be there forever.."

      You have every right to believe what you want.

      I do, however, have a problem with this, "Make sure you know all this."

      Why do we need to make sure we know this?  Because if we don't, we will burn in hell?

      R

      1. The Invincible profile image61
        The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Dear ElSeductor

        Hahaha....I realize the last statement shouldn't have been there. Have no clue about who's going to hell or heaven... All I know and believe is something you've already read...

        Are we up for any more discussion??

        1. diyomarpandan profile image59
          diyomarpandanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Deleted

          1. The Invincible profile image61
            The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My friend, do not assume anything by just looking at the religion..

            1. diyomarpandan profile image59
              diyomarpandanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Deleted

              1. The Invincible profile image61
                The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am! What about you?

                1. diyomarpandan profile image59
                  diyomarpandanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. The Invincible profile image61
                    The Invincibleposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Never hear that. Could you elaborate?

  23. samnashy profile image83
    samnashyposted 4 years ago

    I dont think people are afraid of no believing whether or not there's a god, but more of death itself.  Of leaving the body and ? Unknown.  Faith of whatever kind is a way for people to believe in immortality.  Who knows for sure anyway??    There must be some force or intelligence surely.

  24. mrnasir profile image61
    mrnasirposted 4 years ago

    ElSeductor
    I think you are afraid because you know God is there.
    You said; the purpose of life is to survive and not harm anyone.(if I say this is your theory,why should I believe)
    Can I ask you a question; If there's no God & nothing after death then(if I say) I'll do whatever I want to(good or bad,whatever, I don't care of anything/anyone) & run??I ask you why should I do good/right deeds?(If there is no God, who'll ask me)
    Second thing: if we gain knowledge of this world(of everything in it) and the universe then we'll believe that there's someone behind all this...definitely God.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting perspective. It tell me a lot about someone when they say "if there is not God why should I be good". It tell me you lack moral structor. Perhaps you don't have that little voice in your head telling you not to hurt others. As far as I know the only people who don't have that little voice (conscience) psychopaths, sociopaths, and possibly narcissistic people. Do you follow one of these groups? I hope you're getting help.

      Incase you are unaware of the statistics. Atheists make up about 17% of the American population, but make up less than 0.1% of the inmate prison population. This striking statistic displays just how moral Atheists are compared to Christians.

      1. mrnasir profile image61
        mrnasirposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Rad Man, You didn't understand my question and talking about irrelevant points.First try to understand, then answer.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I understood. Perhaps my statement is over your head.

          1. mrnasir profile image61
            mrnasirposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's your thought, Be Happy.

    2. ElSeductor profile image60
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      mrnasir,

      You asked that if there is no God, then why should you do right deeds.  The reason is obvious, or should be.  If you do wrong deeds, then you will go to prison.

      R

      1. mrnasir profile image61
        mrnasirposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ok if someone is powerful,rich,etc and no one can arrest him then what you say...How we can stop him?

        1. ElSeductor profile image60
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          mrnasir,

          Have you heard of Bernie Madoff?

          R

          1. mrnasir profile image61
            mrnasirposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I know him, but I think there are not many examples like this one.
            OK ElSeductor. Thanks for your response.
            Well I'm sure if we believe in God then we'll find the sayings of God and those sayings will definitely take us to the right deeds/path.

      2. twosheds1 profile image61
        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But there are also bad deeds that will not land you in prison. You can just be a dick to people, but dicks tend to be lonely. There's the old saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" and it's certainly true. Also, altruistic behavior is instinctive, and appears in most animal species. Animals (including humans) that don't nurture their young or treat others with a modicum of respect don't last long. So, doing the "right deeds" is in our nature.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The fact that you insult people personally here does not equate to doing good deeds, quite the opposite, actually.

  25. courtyB3 profile image77
    courtyB3posted 4 years ago

    This is why I believe that organized religion is a sham. It has even been historically proven to BE nothing more then a means to control and earn money. But there has to be some faith in something, so I believe in a higher diety whether it be mother nature or a "god".

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose that would beg the question, why does there have to be faith in something such as a higher deity?

  26. A Driveby Quipper profile image60
    A Driveby Quipperposted 3 years ago

    Thank God that I do not have to live within the parameters of your limited perception.

  27. jimagain profile image83
    jimagainposted 3 years ago

    Your premise is rife with assumption. Are you asking a question or is this a guise to denigrate those who don't accept your position as an indisputable axiom? Forgive us our opinions to the contrary.

  28. Oztinato profile image83
    Oztinatoposted 16 months ago

    I think you're mixing up religion with God due to the mention of hell.
    Also there is an immediate unethical contradiction in the Forum as it is phrased in numerous questions. This implies you are claiming to know stuff already and have opted out of the correct Q&A format for some reason. If you genuinely don't know something about this huge topic I can help answer genuine ethical questions. However it is clear the numerous questions are not actually questions at all but illogical unethical "non sequitur" arguments which can only lead to further endless online arguments which do not benefit the actual achievment of finding answers.

  29. Oztinato profile image83
    Oztinatoposted 16 months ago

    The HP site was playing up.
    I was about to add that when a genuine ethical person asks such questions they are directed to courses of study in the role of student or novice. Sometimes for years of quiet study.
    In other words asking a question implies a person does NOT know the answer. It implies the person asking is admitting ignorance on a certain field of knowledge. If upon recieving instruction that student were to refuse learning then what can a teacher do? Put it down to an inability to learn or sheer stubbornness or worse still a low IQ or petulance.

  30. Oztinato profile image83
    Oztinatoposted 16 months ago

    Now, to rephrase the question in an ethical manner it should read "why can't I (the forum questioner) accept that god does not exist". The answer: because every fibre in your being is telling you God does exist. That should be the end of the discussion UNLESS there are other hidden agendas such as propelling arguments and asking non sequitur or illogical "questions".

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Or because you want a "father", a god to guide you and protect you, so badly that you can't stand the thought it might not be there.  Humanity is well known for such rationalizations:  "My child would never do that!" for instance.

      It is a reasonable question; "Why do people believe in a god when there is zero evidence of one?", and the most likely answer is that they want it to be true.

      1. janesix profile image61
        janesixposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        I don't think most people even question it. They grow up in a society that believes in God, so they just continue to do so without really thinking about it.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          You got it: the thought that He isn't there is unforgivable.  He has to be there, so He is.

    2. jacharless profile image82
      jacharlessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      To add a tug here, which perhaps can be understood..
      It is because the conscious mind, meaning the active indulgence of knowledge, cannot comprehend nor experience the existence of Creator. It was not designed to. The brain and it's contents was designed to be a processor not a controller. And, although every fiber of the individual senses an existence -even feels it to a certain degree, the confusion caused by a million-billion threads of information, keeps them in a state of loss.
      Contrary to popular belief among both sensationalists and scientists -the byproducts of said indulgence; expressions of the human condition- the Adamic Inception is indeed real. We are all victims of it. Our amnesia/affliction keeps the experience, beyond thought/reason, at bay...

  31. Anders Husmann profile image55
    Anders Husmannposted 16 months ago

    But still, we have to realize, that God is a concept, that describes our mutual interdependance and interrelation as growing human beings. Call it love or what you want. You can make this universe cold or you can make it warm. Whatever you want. When you direct your intention to the universe or God or the sun, you will most likely pick up on some frequencies as a result of directing your attention and intention. Creation is constant, as is change. You have the freedom to create.

    Say, there is only now. What then? Everything will always be, as quantum physics adresses. So how do we make order out of this big pile of everything? We create, as the divine and loving beings we are. We make a living. We make politics, sadly most of the time though. We make love. We make music. So God is real in the sense, it's a concept, created to understand our own true nature.

    There is a lot of ongoing hypocrisy, when predeterminalistic either empiricalists or fanatic priests passes on judgement to people, they don't know. Leave that  up to God to judge. And now people only speak for themselves. No more war; nice. Let's call God; The Future Enlightened You. Now, you are God. You are it. Do you want to be in a cold unloving eternal universe? Fine. Do you want to be in a warm loving eternal universe? Fine. Both are possible. Now it's up to you.

    What do you want?

  32. vector7 profile image59
    vector7posted 16 months ago

    Wow. Blindness reigns. Why are "engineers" ALWAYS prodding at what they can't [obviously] see is a mirage of ENGINEERING GENIUS? Lol its amazing the sheer number of 'accidents' people believe happen... And then think it intelligent that adding more time makes the theory 'accidents engineered everything!' more plausible.

    I've never seen such an ignorant and plain stupid sentiment as random accidents creating, engineering, and building ingelligent structures and systems that operate so efficiently, and with such complexity (irreducible at that!), and precisely that not even we [yes, our brillance shunned by trillions of "mistakes" please grasp the sarcasm lol] in all our interconnected world of communicating brains can reproduce them. And even then what we DO have is copied from them.. But then... THEY engineered it all right? pahaha

    There is no God in the blind man's world. If you can't calculate the simple logic and crunch the numbers, then well... God will introduce Himself to you in time. Believe me, [or don't smile] you'll cross that portal. There is more evidence that God exists than that I exist on the other end of the internet...

    Then you have the.. "life is all an illusion, nothing really exists.." lol, i love those guys..
    Me: "Please sit right right here, yes sir.. on the coals will be fine, they aren't real it's an illusion like everything else." lol

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Yes, a series of millions of just the right random accidents created your brain. Luckily for you.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        Don't forget the billions more that were NOT the right random accidents and were "discarded".

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          Prove those billions of discards. That is only speculation.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

            And yet there are several "failed" samples between "Lucy" and us.  To think that all random mutations is useful is folly; we know of too many that are not.

            1. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 16 months ago in reply to this

              How do you know extinct organisms are failures? I see them as stepping stones to advancement and higher complexity.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                They're not here, are they?  As a stepping stone, they work but as soon as the next "stone" comes along the first one fails.

                Failing merely means that the species doesn't reproduce fast enough to survive.  So any of the stepping stones are obviously a failure when competing with the next "stone".

      2. vector7 profile image59
        vector7posted 16 months ago in reply to this

        What a reply.

        Same as always huh.. No rebuttal. Logic got you tongue? lol

        Troll this one too. You'll have a win.. I won't be wasting my time. Tootles.

        big_smile

  33. ahorseback profile image48
    ahorsebackposted 15 months ago

    This entire post could have been avoided by simply asking one of the following questions :

    "Why do I despise  that which you do not ?"
    " Why do I resent that which has made you happy in having quite  simply , -faith ?"
    " Isn't there anyone else out there that resents religion ?"
    " Who are you to believe in a God that I cannot ?"
    " If there really is a God  why doesn't he single me out to prove it to ?"

    should I go on ?

 
working