Is there a theist bold enough to answer? My least favorite story in the bible, "The Binding of Isaac": let's assume you have a kid, would you have the same fear and faith in God to carry out his will?
If so, in what way would He have to ask, for you to not assume your just hallucinating or going mentally insane? What if this came days, months, or years, after some head - how severe? - trama, would it change your mind? where's the line? is there a line?
Realize, attempting to kill your child in hopes that God will stop you in the last moment, is different than having faith - fear - that it is God's will and it must be carried out, alike Abraham.
With today's knowledge on mental disorders, is it unconscionable to have faith as pure as Abraham's?
Any man who knows his God as God will do it...
otherwise that God to him is not his God.
Bold statement, I couldn't agree more.
Really, a few years ago a man suddenly beheaded his fellow greyhound bus passenger because the voice in his head told him that the voice was God and the fellow passenger was an alien and needed to be killed.
If you are hearing voices in your head go get help and meds before you kill anyone. Anyone who answer yes to this question either has no children or is in need of medication and therapy.
Once again, I couldn't agree more. I think this questions highlights the evil in religion, it also brings understanding to those terrorist that so desperately - believe in their god - hate western civilizations influence.
Perhaps one should ask oneself the question "why would any God need a sacrifice". Wouldn't they know of your devotion? Where does it stop? Would you kill the innocent if your boss asked you to? You know it's wrong. How about if your country asked you to kill innocent people? How about your religion? Where does it stop. Time for some critical thinking.
Why do we think death is the only way to offer a sacrifice? Relinquish our plans and ideals for our children to His own will and plan; that's a huge sacrifice especially in this day and age. And I believe that's all that He would ask. For a parent to let go and trust.
But would you let go and trust, if He was literally asking you to sacrifice your child?
Literally speaking, murder is a request incongruent with the deity I believe in.
I believe that G-d grants life. Death is not an appropriate sacrifice. Living life for Him is.
It sounds like you have a wonderful deity.
Then how do you reconcile the Abraham story?
Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. Or maybe he misinterpreted and the angel intervened to stop a terrible wrong. Scholars aren't sure exactly how old Isaac was at the time. Maybe Abraham was simply meant to finally let go and let his son become who he was meant to be.
Also, Abraham came before Jesus' death on the cross, which was the 'ultimate sacrifice', after that there was a turning in beliefs and understanding of the 'laws' and of His will.
How do you know what to take literally and what not to? For example, many Christians condemn homosexuality based on Lev. 18 & 20, but ignore Lev. 19, which forbids tattoos. Why 18 but not 19? Not to mention all the other restrictions in Leviticus.
Many christians feel strongly without having actually read the Bible in it's entirety.
I believe that one's faith is personal. When one has their own, personal relationship with G-d, the Bible may help them to clarify their beliefs and serve as a guideline. Other than that, listen to your own inner voice (not the same as hearing voices!) when you choose which parts to interpret literally.
Well then what do you need the bible for? If your going to use your own ethics to interpret the bible. Do I get tattoo's? Do I hate homosexuals? If it's not all right, then it must not be directly from God, because God is perfect.
The Bible was written by men, reinterpreted and copied over by men, and edited by men. It still serves a purpose as a guideline, but one must use common sense and one's own moral compass. Kind of like following a recipe handed down by generations. You need the original; but you'll adapt it to your own modern kitchen and personal needs.
Okay so you agree the bible was written by men 2000 years ago. The OT condones Rape, Murder and slavery. Perhaps our own Governments laws are more applicable and the bible is no longer needed by most people.
Religion and politics are separate. A few things may overlap, but all and all our moral compass is our own to follow. The Bible gives believers a guideline, both as a historical reference point and in the parables within. It is not outdated. However, the concept of literal interpretation and blind following is.
I would never attempt to tell other people what they 'need'. But, the Bible is still relevant to my life, whether I interpret it literally or not. I believe that others may find it so as well.
A "God" that would demand that you kill a loved one doesn't sound much like a "God" to me. Just sayin'.
Yet to them he already does this and they still worship him. "He" takes Christian babies all the time and they say "oh he's in a better place" "God needed another angel" "my baby was needed in heaven"
Everyone deals with grief in different ways. I've never spent much time rolling my eyes at people dealing with pain.
Neither have I simply stating what I have seen, sadly too many times.
Well then, sadly, you assume other people consider death a sacrifice to a God. When, what it more probably is; is simply trying to find peace in an untenable situation. I don't know a soul who considers the average death a sacrifice of any kind. I could certainly be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.
Of course the family with a child on life support doesn't say "oh well I guess we'll make a sacrifice" however the definition of sacrifice is to make an offering to a God or supernatural power. So the same thing in my opinion as saying "He'll go to a better place" Someone is in their mind giving their loved one to god at death.
I think the problem here is the difference between sacrifice, and intent-full sacrifice that the prompt assumes.
You (hopefully) won't find a person who was intending to sacrifice their child because they thought it was God's plan, but you will find many who accept that their child had to be (consciously) sacrificed to God's will, ex post facto. The later is illegitimate or misplaced, but it's understandable and grief normally comes sadly anyways.
God can do anything, so why would he not instead just create another angel rather than emotionally destroying the lives of a man and woman by killing their baby?
This is my whole issue with a God and religion. An almighty being who Chooses not to be almighty when it suits them. Sounds like a God that wouldn't deserve worshiping even if he was real!
You said, "Sounds like a God that wouldn't deserve worshiping even if he was real!"
so, so true!
and if not, He deserves all the blame, which explains why theists act as if the were all, "An almighty being who Chooses not to be almighty when it suits them."
Except replace almighty with a - thought to be- perfect moral compass and north star.
I am a theist, and my answer is no. I would like to say that my faith is stronger than that, but unless the Lord could give me a really good reason, I'd have to turn Him down and risk whatever consequence might come.
God comes across as very insecure and not very bright (destroying every living thing in a world wide flood, which includes all plant life-oxygen supply, were Noah and the rest of the suvivores would die anyway). I don't believe in God anyway, so I could carer less.
No God that demands I torture another human being to death in order to (temporarily) remain in its good graces is deserving of my respect OR worship.
I've mentioned this many times before, but if a being does so much as communicate with you, let alone demand blood, it is not God no matter what it tells you.
Kill your child (or anyone for that matter) because a voice in your head tells you to? Why would you even consider doing this, unless you were a schizophrenic?
The story of ritual human sacrifice that can be replaced with animals is why during the Roman era, I believe that the man JC was born to be sacrificed because animals weren't doing the trick anymore. There was no more temple to use animal substitutes when sacrifice is required according to Hebrews 9:22 “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” -
Routine male circumcision of baby boys is an artifact of that concept - pawned of as 'for medical reasons'.
Historical side note:
In Mesoamerica the king would do a blood sacrifice by pulling a knotted rope though a hole in his foreskin once a year. Conquistador Cortés saw 20,000 victims die in one day in honor of his arrival because the Aztecs thought he was Tezcatlipoca, the smoking mirror god of war.
Still done today by (IMHO) totally crazy people & kali worshippers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju … e-facebook
Once again, not once again here we go again. That evil oh God allowing his son to die for all of mankind so that the souls of mankind will not be lost forever what an evil guy he is.
If that makes God evil then what does it make man when we allow people to kill themselves for sport in an arena where we pay good money to watch?
Evil people seem to get more horrific as time passes so here's a scenario-What if some bad guys broke into a person's home and at gunpoint make the demand hand over your daughter and the entire family can live, don't hand over your daughter and we kill the entire family-What are you going to do?
There's definitely an argument to God being evil for sacrificing - by forsaking - his son to die for humanity, regardless of man being evil.
As for your 'what if', I think it's a distraction from you not answering the original question.
While the what-if's seem similar, a theist answer to my prompt would show a merit of faith, where as an atheists answer to your 'what if' shows a stance on ethics (utilitarian versus communitarian).
What sport would that be? Which planet?
LOL! Does that happen often in your neighborhood? What did you do and how many daughters did you have to let go?
People were always horrific. But you pose an interesting scenario. The logical answer, assuming we can take the gunman at his word, would be to hand over your daughter, but emotionally, I doubt any parent could make that choice. A similar situation happened in the Stephen King story "Storm of the Century."
Sounds eerily similar to a bad movie I actually finished "cabin in the woods".
Sacrificing has been going on for some time now and yet we do not point the finger at ourselves as being evil why is that?
When we send our young men and women out to fight our wars we are sacrificing them! But we sit high and mighty pointing the finger at God but never pointing it at ourselves.
Can you just answer the question?
It's one thing to have a superseding power that we sacrifice for (taxes), instead of a supernatural power to sacrifice to (tithe) -- one is within our control or at least tangible.
No, I'm not a puppet your question is desire to give a desired response and I found your question doesn't look beyond a onesided view of "you see I toldyou he was evil" while completely ignoring all the evil mankind does.
Mankind clearly does evil, is that all your looking for from the other side?
The question asks if you would not carry out God's sacrifice because you would feel evil - or insane - doing it.
Sounds like a yes.
The only evil man would do in this scenario would be to listen to the voice in his head and kill someone.
No, I point the finger at ourselves for sending children to war. They are children when we send them or let them go. Our brains continue to develop until the age of 25. We get them before that age. Why? Because asking someone to go when their frontal lobs are fully matured would be futile.
My religion(Hinduism) also encourages sacrifice of life ( not a child but animals ) ...
And I (a theist) don't accept it ... I'd not kill anything on the name of sacrifice.
Why does one need to sacrifice anything to win God's heart ? Just being a reasonable human being should suffice.
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