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Is Evidence for a Creator God possible?

  1. God is in kitchen profile image59
    God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago

    We often get *intuitions* which we can not establish with evidence. If someone tells a lie, we may detect that, but we can not instantly show evidence. Is this the case for God. Is it possible that some people know and feel God, but can't demonstrate to others?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What if someone tells the truth and our *intuition* detects a lie? In other words, when they are wrong, is that also demonstrating God?

      1. God is in kitchen profile image59
        God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I understand what you are suggesting. But we must open the possibility that SOME people may know, or have experienced things and truths that they can not establish with evidence.

        But it will be our loss if we do not accept that.  Yes, it takes some energy to filter out the liar from the *honest* person, and from someone who has really experienced something which we normally find uncanny, to a manipulator, but it's not impossible...


        AND, it may include foretelling future by reading palm, or spiritual awakenings, kundalini, and even God.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why should we open to that? If so, then anyone can make claims of truths from their personal experiences.



          You can't filter out liars when there's nothing to filter out. No evidence, you said.




          None of those have any validity.

          1. God is in kitchen profile image59
            God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's like saying Gravitation does not exist because Newton didn't find enough evidence to prove it. We should always be open to new truths, and that these truths may come without evidence as well. The so-called scientists are only exceptional in that they try to find evidence for the intuitions and realizations they receive.

            Filtering out may not be easy, but that's possible.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No, it isn't because we can all experience, measure and predict gravity. Newton did not prove gravity.



              Those so-called scientists have brought YOU every modern convenience you use every day, like a computer and internet connection, just to name a couple. You would still be living in cave conditions if it weren't for what science has provided.



              Not without evidence.

              1. God is in kitchen profile image59
                God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                There you have YOUR faith in science lol

                1. God is in kitchen profile image59
                  God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Newton may not have proved gravity, but it was he who discovered that for the first time, at-least that's the way the story goes.  It was his intuition. Some people may have intuitions of Creator God. wink

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So, you don't really know the facts behind Newton's three laws or "the way the story goes"

                    Just be honest and say so.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image62
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, I understand believers must equate everything to a belief,  a result of indoctrination.

                  1. God is in kitchen profile image59
                    God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, that I have a belief is your newest belief  lol lol

      2. Iamsam profile image65
        Iamsamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus Christ is the son of God and those who believe in Him will not perish.
        They will have eternal life.
        This is the right time to secure your salvation.
        May God Bless you.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          But, what if you're wrong?

          1. aka-dj profile image79
            aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No problem! Nothing happens!

            What if YOU are wrong?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Other than the fact one wastes their entire lives believing in myths and lies.



              We both share that problem when we both stand up against Allah and a consortium of other gods who will seek retribution because we didn't worship them.

              Hence, your god is merely in a line up with all the others.

              1. aka-dj profile image79
                aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Now you assume there IS a god, or many gods. I don't have to share that POV.
                Even if that were the case, we would be all in the same situation.

                So, you are taling a risk that's bigger than mine.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, it is you who is taking the bigger risk by singling out one god out of many who are claimed to exist and rejecting the others. They won't take kindly to that.

                2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Pascal's wager... and it has been proven to be an inherently flawed argument... logically that is.

          2. Iamsam profile image65
            Iamsamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hell is real...
            "These things you are about to see will always be with you. The world must know about the reality of hell. Many sinners and even some of My people do not believe that hell is real. You have been chosen by Me to reveal these truths to them. Everything I will show you about hell and all the other things I will show you are true."

            Jesus had shown Himself to me in the form of a bright light, brighter than the sun. The form of a man was in the center of that light. Sometimes I saw Jesus as a man, but at other times He was in the form of a spirit. He spoke again, "Child, when I speak, the Father has spoken. The Father and I are one. Remember to love above all else and to forgive one another. Come now, follow Me." As we walked, evil spirits fled from the presence of the Lord. "O God, O God," I cried. "What is next?"

            As I said previously, I had all my senses in hell. All those in hell have all their senses. Mine were working now in full force. Fear was on every side, and inexpressible dangers lurked everywhere. Each step I took was more horrible than the one before. There were doorways about the size of small windows, opening and shutting very fast at the top of the tunnel. Screams filled the air as many evil creatures flew by us, up and out of the gateways of hell. Soon we were at the end of the tunnel. I was trembling with fright because of the danger and fear around us.

            I was so thankful for the protection of Jesus. I thank God for His almighty power to protect us, even in the pits of hell. Even with that protecting shield, I kept thinking, Not my will, Father, but Yours be done. I looked at my body. For the first time I noticed that I was in a spirit form, and my form was in the shape of myself. I wondered what was next.

            Jesus and I stepped from the tunnel onto a path with wide swaths of land on each side of it. There were pits of fire everywhere as far as the eye could see. The pits were four feet across and three feet deep and shaped like a bowl. Jesus said, "There are many pits like this in the left leg of hell. Come, I will show you some of them. "

            I stood beside Jesus on the path and looked into one of the pits. Brimstone was embedded in the side of the pit and glowed red like hot coals of fire. In the center of the pit was a lost soul who had died and gone to hell. Fire began at the bottom of the pit, swept upward and clothed the lost soul in flames. In a moment the fire would die down to embers, then with a rushing sound would sweep back over the tormented soul in the pit. I looked and saw that the lost soul in the pit was caged inside a skeleton form. "My Lord," I cried at the sight, "Can't you let them out?" How awful was the sight! I thought, This could be me. I said, "Lord, how sad it is to see and know that a living soul is in there."

            I heard a cry from the center of the first pit. I saw a soul in the form of a skeleton, crying, "Jesus, have mercy!"
            "O, Lord!" I said. It was the voice of a woman. I looked at her and wanted to pull her out of the fire. The sight of her broke my heart. The skeleton form of a woman with a dirty-grey mist inside was talking to Jesus. In shock, I listened to her. Decayed flesh hung by shreds from her bones, and, as it burned, it fell off into the bottom of the pit. Where her eyes had once been were now only empty sockets. She had no hair.

            The fire started at her feet in small flames and grew as it climbed up and over her body. The woman seemed to be constantly burning, even when the flames were only embers. From deep down inside her came cries and groans of despair, "Lord, Lord, I want out of here!" She kept reaching out to Jesus. I looked at Jesus, and there was great sorrow on His face. Jesus said to me, "My child, you are here with Me to let the world know that sin results in death, that hell is real.

            I looked at the woman again, and worms were crawling out of the bones of her skeleton. They were not harmed by the fire. Jesus said, "She knows and feels those worms inside." "God, have mercy!" I cried as the fire reached its peak and the horrible burning started all over again. Great cries and deep sobs shook the form of this woman-soul. She was lost. There was no way out. "Jesus, why is she here?" I said in a small voice, for I was very scared.

            Jesus said, "Come." The path we were on was a circuitous one, twisting in and out between these pits of fire as far as I could see. The cries of the living dead, mixed with moans and hideous screams, came to my ears from all directions. There were no quiet times in hell. The smell of dead and decaying flesh hung thickly in the air. We came to the next pit. Inside this pit, which was the same size as the other one, was another skeleton form. A man's voice cried from the pit, saying, "Lord, have mercy on me!"

            Only when they spoke could I tell whether the soul was a man or woman. Great wailing sobs came from this man. "I'm so sorry, Jesus. Forgive me. Take me out of here. I have been in this place of torment for years. I beg You, let me out!" Great sobs
            shook his skeletal frame as he begged, "Please, Jesus, let me out!" I looked at Jesus and saw that He too was crying. "Lord Jesus," the man cried out from the burning pit, "haven't I suffered enough for my sins? It has been forty years since my death."

            Jesus said, "It is written, The just shall live by faith!' All mockers and unbelievers shall have their part in the lake of fire. You would not believe the truth. Many times My people were sent to you to show you the way, but you would not listen to them. You laughed at them and refused the gospel. Even though I died on a cross for you, you mocked Me and would not repent of your sins. My Father gave you many opportunities to be saved. If only you had listened!" Jesus wept.

            "I know, Lord, I know!" the man cried. "But I repent now."
            "It is too late," said Jesus. "Judgment is set."
            The man continued, "Lord, some of my people are coming here, for they also will not repent. Please, Lord, let me go tell them that they must repent of their sins while they are still on earth. I do not want them to come here." Jesus said, "They have preachers, teachers, elders-all ministering the gospel. They will tell them. They also have the advantages of the modern communications systems and many other ways to learn of Me. I sent workers to them that they might believe and be saved. If
            they will not believe when they hear the gospel, neither will they be persuaded though one rises from the dead."

            (Excerpt from the book "A divine revelation of Hell" by Mary K Baxter)

            1. Paul Wingert profile image80
              Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, not buying it. Hell is man made too.

              1. Jerami profile image77
                Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                ACORDING TO SOME PEOPLE ...  ???  It would seem; ...   that everything is made by man.          SOooo  ...  the answer to all of the worlds problems would be for us to QuidiT.  Everybody   QUIDIT

            2. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Mary needs to seriously seek professional help.

  2. kirstenblog profile image78
    kirstenblogposted 4 years ago

    I often get 'intuitions', say I am walking down the street and its mostly empty or is after dark and I see someone who makes me think, better get my keys out (just in case I need a weapon). So far I have never been mugged or robbed, every intuition has passed without event, probably was completely off base and not at all a reflection of the person or situation. I can even feel down right silly when I see my 'intuition' was totally wrong. Since no one is harmed by my having my keys in hand I will still take them out any time I feel that feeling of 'intuition' of danger but I will also admit that I am probably being silly in most situations.

    There is more evidence for the existence of muggers then there is for God and if I feel silly for thinking that guy down the road looks dodgy enough to be a mugger, well do you honestly think I am going to believe in the possibility of a God existing based only on the claimed intuitions of others (I say claimed because I suspect most religious leaders do not actually believe in God at all, wouldn't be surprised if the pope was in his heart an atheist, just because someone says they felt something doesn't mean they did).

    1. God is in kitchen profile image59
      God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What you say, is mostly true. Some of those intuitions might be outright false. But there are exceptional cases too, which you have overlooked, seemingly.

      If you meet a person who constantly lies and twists facts, you can sense that. It has been my experience when someone lied and I had the *intuition* that he lied. I had no evidence to prove that what had he said was false. No one believed me. But only I knew what happened. You see, it's not that much simple.

      And to add further, I have seen certain things happening which no one would easily believe. That will never be taken as a truth. What hell! They happened before my eyes.

      You would ask for evidence. How can I show you how the world looked like in 100000 BC? There was no camera then. So the world didn't exist then? I saw how the world was barren, and how the rocks turned into human beings. How can I prove that, I saw that myself, or something like that.

  3. jacharless profile image82
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Have actually posed this query in another thread titled, "In your opinion, what defines evidence of Creator". It was quite an interesting dialogue, although it did not directly address instinct/intuition or truth versus lie.

    So, the argument of Truth as lies or Lies being the Yang in the Duality, comes into the forefront.

    A lie is essentially a skewed perception, a dividing or fragment  of Truth.
    Everything is evidence. The perception, then, determines whether or not that evidence is accurate, skewed or completely hidden from the viewport.

    James

    1. A Troubled Man profile image62
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And yet by definition, a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth intended or serving to convey a false impression." Dic dot com.

      If ones perception is merely skewed, they aren't really making conclusions or claims with "deliberate intent" unless they are knowingly skewing their perception in order to deceive.

      1. jacharless profile image82
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, they are. The claim is based foremost on the mode of thinking itself, which is generally skewed at its core. So, with a perceived method of thinking automatically the intention becomes established. The pattern of thoughts creates a corresponding system, or equation, which defines all other perceptions, ideas, conclusions and considerations within. The core is already divided, divisive and deceptive. Therefore the person is intentionally skewing the Truth. Of course one could establish this very mention as willful ignorance, as the mind/brain is nothing more than a processor of information. Its function is but to do. That doing is defined as thinking. Yet the information within, as a whole, is not a collective of lies, but a singularity of Truth.

        Therefore the method by which those threads are woven or perceived in any given instance, result in either continued application of Truth or skewed output, aka a lie. To this point, the conundrum of skews can be many, at any instance, and change as the perception changes, the core being constantly rebuilt, instantaneously, as to continue processing information.

        This continues with the adding or removing of more information.
        Unless all the information collectively is expressed, as a whole, as Truth, the skew remains. That skew intentionally remains as perceived truth, to the individual, forming actions, feelings, reactions, acceptances and dismissals -commonly known as cyclical or repetitive behavior.

        James

        1. A Troubled Man profile image62
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, but none of your explanation takes into account intention to deceive.

          1. Iamsam profile image65
            Iamsamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I am reproducing the story of  DR PETTI WAGNER, USA.  Hope this will enable you to believe in God.

            Life had never been better. I owned prime property, had a research clinic with five doctors working for me, achieved three doctorates, and four multimillion dollar corporations, which I had built up myself employing many people. I was worth many, many millions of dollars.

            The full story of how I was kidnapped and murdered is recorded in my
            book, Murdered Heiress. Immediately after I was electrocuted it was a
            case of, ‘out of the body and present with the Lord’.

            Immediately the current was switched on I was dead. In one second I was
            walking across the top of the universe with my long purple velvet robe on,
            not yet realising I was going to meet royalty. There, in front of me, was
            Jesus. Two beautiful chairs that I always had around my table at home
            appeared out of nowhere, and we sat down.

            I sat there opposite Jesus for six solid hours. Every second I was with Him it seemed that a million intravenous tubes of pure love went into my body. I was all-knowing. I knew the beginning, the end and the middle. There was nothing I did not know when I was sitting in front of Jesus.

            Sitting there with Jesus, we were able to look down and see my body whilst they took off the electrodes, and returned my body to the room in which I had been kept prisoner. We could see them checking to confirm that I was dead. Jesus sat opposite me. There was no question that He was Jesus. He asked me whether I wanted to stay up in Heaven, or whether I wanted to go back to Earth. I said, ‘Lord’. If He was not my Lord, I could not have said that. If I had not taken Him into my heart when I was five years old, I could not have used the title, ‘Lord’. My response to him was, ‘Lord, my job is not done. I want to wrap up a lot of packages in red ribbons, just how my mother taught us, before I am through’. It may seem strange that I wanted to come back, especially when I looked at that mutilated body. It was not something I really wanted to return to. But my spirit was speaking  for me. Jesus said, ‘Any time when the blueprint of your life, that your Heavenly Father has given you, is interrupted, you have a choice. Today you are the judge, not the jury’. Immediately He said this, I was back in my body again. I came back into my body with the sheet over my head. Suddenly the room was full of a voice as if it went from the ceiling to the floor, from every corner of the room. This big voice said, ‘I am the Lord your God, I am here to help you and not to hurt you. Do not be afraid.’

            When I came back into my body I was in excruciating pain of course. I looked out of the window, and the time and temperature were on a sign across the street. The sign had been my constant companion.

            I waited until it was almost six o’clock. Of course my murderers were all very confident that I was dead. My death certificate had been written. As it approached six o’clock, I went over and knocked on the door, and I tell you it was almost worth the whole trip! Have you ever had a ghost asking for something to eat? Well, that’s exactly what I did, because those big men opened that door, not knowing what they were going to see. Yet here I was asking for something to eat. They turned white as sheets, and ran
            down the hall.

            The Lord impressed on me that I should forgive all those who had been responsible for my kidnapping and murder. I could not understand this. ‘Why?’ I said. ‘If I could pray, I would be praying for myself!’

            God said, ‘If you do not pray and forgive them right now, then it will interfere with the work you and I have to do together’. I said, ‘Lord, I do not know how to pray’. He responded, ‘I will teach you’. He told me to say, ‘God forgive them, they knew not what they were doing’.

            With God’s help I managed to escape from the room in which I was held captive, as recorded in my book. I was collected by a taxi driver. He took me to my aunt’s house. I called the police, and arranged for medical attention.

            Since then, I have never been afraid of anything. I have had nothing but holy boldness. It is so important to pray for our enemies. God gave me a huge gift of forgiveness right from the very beginning. This enabled me to pray for them, and forgive every one of them. I pray for their families as
            well.

            1. Cody Rine profile image59
              Cody Rineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I think there is no "god"

            2. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Uh, stories from others are not evidence, hence there is no reason to form beliefs from them.



              That story is pure baloney.

              1. God is in kitchen profile image59
                God is in kitchenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol lol lol
                lol lol lol

          2. aka-dj profile image79
            aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If a person believes what they are saying is the truth,
            then they are not intentionally deceiving.
            Yet, what they say is a lie and deceiving.
            But, are they, in fact lying?

            1. A Troubled Man profile image62
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There are many believers here who intentionally deceive and they know it. Facts are placed directly in front of them and they either ignore, deny or reject them in favor of their beliefs. If they don't believe they're lying, then they are seriously indoctrinated.

              1. aka-dj profile image79
                aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Doesn't answer my point.

                It merely explains (again) those who deceive intentionally.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image62
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, it does explain your point because one can deceive intentionally if they reject facts in favor of those beliefs.

                  1. aka-dj profile image79
                    aka-djposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Come on.

                    Answer the question?

                    In the example I gave, the "speaker" has no evidence that their statement is false?
                    Are they lying, and INTENTIONALLY deceiving?

  4. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
    Kangaroo_Jaseposted 4 years ago

    No

  5. jacharless profile image82
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Hell cannot be real. Foremost because it was destroyed when the Firstborn from the grave arose to immortality. This was further expressed, quite vividly, by Johns revealing of the Testimony of Moshiach {also called Revelation}. The 'keys' to it given to each having the Seed. This stasis and all other items pertaining humanity from Adam and forward forever were completed before the 1st rising {resurrection} so that the Kingdom would be revealed to each one and access to it granted without restriction.

    Also, just because some have had dreams, visions, feeling or words written in books say there is such a place, does not mean it is real.

    Let us not be so accepting of pagan traditions containing stories or teachings about demons and such. No thing in the entire universe is, nor can be, separated from Creator. Creator is the universe -all things both observed and hidden -is in all things -and all things exist because He is in them. He is neither heaven nor hell, good nor evil, righteous nor unrighteous, clean nor unclean, loving nor hateful, generous nor withholding. Neither does He judge the works of Reason {good-evil}. for Reason -the Knowledge of good-evil- is the suffering of man. Again, for this very purpose, one man came to remove the stumbling block of Reason, and show the Way to immortality, by example.

    We are His reflection and the image of His thinking. Therefore be what that image expresses, and no other --and not the expression of the thoughts in you, which is Reason -Philos divided. Fix your eyes on that image which leads you to immortality and kneel before no other. To do so is death for certain.

    James

 
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