The Hoax called God
We all know how life works, and how the concept of supernatural is a myth. Come out now and confess that you want freedom from the hoax called God.
The whole of life or only part thereof?
I have only that much working knowledge of the universe. Do you know better?
You know how life works? I never met anyone who actually knows how life works. How do you think life started? I know that the essential building blocks of life are destroyed by oxygen. Yet they supposedly had to form under water where not only would they be destroyed, they would repel one another before they could even bond. From my understanding there is not yet a theory about how life started that follows the natural laws that we currently understand.
Somehow life happened.
What do you think?That doesn't mean it was created by something supernatural.
That isn't what I was implying here. I was asking you what you think. You said you know all about life and you know that there is nothing supernatural.
I was asking what your thoughts are on the origins of life since you seem so sure of your beliefs.You believe that I have beliefs. The origin of life? No one knows.
This was the point I was trying to bring you to. You don't know. Nobody does, so how can you expect people to blindly accept that there is nothing supernatural? If you don't know everything about life you cannot make blanket statements such as these while maintaining an air of intellectual honesty.
I want to link you to an article. I think you may find it interesting, it is about a series of experiments trying to recreate the origins of life. Very informative.
http://the_wordbride.tripod.com/origin.htmlYou can't predict on something you don't know. The origin of life, for example.
We most certainly know that the supernatural would violate many laws of the universe and considering there's no evidence whatsoever for the supernatural, there's no reason to consider it valid.
Yes I do think you have beliefs, you stated three in the OP.
You know how life works
The concept of the supernatural is myth
God is a hoax.
Those are three beliefs. The first I think is a little arrogant and entirely untrue.
The second I don't think is a claim you can honestly make without truly understanding the first.
The third is also a claim you cannot honestly make without fully proving the first two beliefs.
So you have three beliefs (that I know of thus far) which seem to be grounded in some sort of faith, but not in actual fact. That is exactly what a belief is.To save you, before I leave this gaming website, if you don't know anything, you can not predict on it. That's a belief. Supernatural is a prediction on something we don't know.
I think your explanation is woefully misinformed.
I can't deny that Jesus changed my life, sorry.
Jesus himself actually changed your life? Sorry, find that a tad bit pseudonymous, vain, egotistical and intellectual dishonest. Had you said, the words he spoke made you think and therefore change direction, fair enough or that Creator moved your heart and mind, would be more inclined to consider it...
JamesCreator and Jesus are one, how does it make a difference?
Also there is nothing egotistical about the statement.You and Creator are also one.
Sorry, I do not see the relevance in one stating another person did their work for them, after this person did so much already, for all humanity, and simply asked each one to do their part, their work -and not steal his testimony because they have none of their own.
James.Where do you the idea that we are one with the Creator? I am curious what you have used to build your beliefs about God. Do you refer to the Bible? The Qur'an? The Rig Veda? I want to understand where you are coming from.
Well, textually many places such as Torah, the 'gospels', yes. But above everything practical faith and experience, void of Theos -the religions of science or sensation; void of Reason -meaning Truth divided; that Duality of good-evil; right-wrong. Everything and everyone has the truth of this in them. And in many various expressions display minimal amounts of Truth. We are born to know this. Born to be that reflection.
Is it that difficult for people to consider?
Is it so preposterous for humans to accept they do know, can do, are able and were genetically programmed this way? I do not see how it lessons Creator, nor the glory of His wondrous creation. Emphatically, quite the opposite. Human beings who were imagined and fashioned to be the sum-substance of that creation. Given abilities to manage this place and many more in a stasis of ineffable perfection, of immortality -as exemplified by the Firstborn?
Where is the honor, glory, joy then if a man cannot do his own work, but must rely on another for validity? A lazy man is worth his wages. And the wages of a belief in sin -and all its parts- is death for certain. A thief's hands cut off.
Where is the evidence of practical faith, given by that Firstborn's example -that Way to restored immortality, to the unification of the Trees and fruit that never ends?
James
Yes, Jesus Himself changed my life. I would still be a wave tossed about by the tempest, or a reed shaken in the wind, if I were still trying to find "the truth" on my own.
And how can that be egotistical? I'm giving Jesus all the credit for changing me.Because it is impossible for he himself to change you. Only Creator {Spirit} and you can change you as the Father {Spirit} changed Moshiach. How can I possibly say this, with any certainty? Moshiach said so explicitly. To all human knowledge, right now Moshiach, our example of immortality, was seated, rested from his labor, completing the work he was predestined to fulfill and paving the Way for everyone to be led by Creator {Spirit} into immortality once more. As he said, the Spirit alone -meaning no other- leads and guides into that Truth -and testifies on their behalf. No other means not even Moshiach himself.
Again, I do not intend to sound harsh as you have started on the Path, only that you are now, like the pagans, worshiping a man, who asked you not to -and further reminded everyone to honor {worship, adore, regard, heed, obey, listen to, fix their eyes upon} his Father, and their Father.
The reason millions have died over the last 2047 years is for this very reason -they put the work before the One who prepared that work to be done; then went further and put their traditions/reasons ahead of the work; then went even further and began to worship a series of texts ahead of both the work and the Creator who prepared it.
Salvation, my good friend, is not in accepting "Jesus in your heart" nor being "good" nor a ticket to "heaven". Salvation is the manifest transformation into that immortal being, and growth of the kingdom of heaven within. A kingdom, a stasis Moshaich displayed, by completing his part and becoming the Firstborn. Work testified by Creator {Spirit}. A testimony belonging only to Moshiach and no other. That each may build a testimony of their own, so the grace given to each might bring about the Restoration of each one, which was -and is- that Great Desire, the Will of the Ineffable Everything.
The metaphors you memorized are lovely and possibly even a measure of truth.
The evidence -the fruit- of the KOH is the only valid testimony one can have.
Everything else is Ego { Reason; Wisdom divided called good-evil }.
I know because I taught that incorrect full gospel doctrine for half a lifetime, in front of thousands, which I sincerely apologize for.
James.Jesus declared wherever He went that He was God in the flesh, and it confounded the religious Jews of His time. Only God is able to forgive sins, and Jesus DID forgive sins. This is why they brought up charges of blasphemy against Him.
Jesus the Messiah was the one-and-for-all Passover sacrifice to atone for sins.Yes, I am aware of this. But do you truly Understand what he was saying?
He was not saying he was Creator. He was speaking, as the Spirit gave him ability, a Truth humans have long forgotten: They are Creator in the flesh -all of them!
For in His imagination, conceived one who would reflect His very nature; and provide him, by design, by likeness, those things which reflect all of creation. And having settled this in Himself, formed a man from the elements of creation and of creation man was. But so that this creation was unlike any other and would fulfill His desire, breathed Himself into man [Hebrew: ruach meaning the Word and Breathe of Life itself] -who became the only living being apart from Himself....
How can you still believe in sin when the Passover has been fulfilled and ALL sin destroyed forever? Any who still believes in sin will sin and suffer the effect of it, which was and is death. Immortality will elude them for they have not accepted that salvation. Am I incorrect? I have 2047 years of evidence.
Remember who you are. He, himself, who is all things, made this promise to bring all things, pertaining to who and what you truly are, to your remembrance. To cure this amnesia of forgetfulness...
James.I understand perfectly clear what God was saying. Atonement for sins does not mean that sins were destroyed. Jesus fulfilled the Law, but did not destroy it (Matthew 5:17). Obviously sin still exists.
That is why the veil in the temple was "rent in twain" from top to bottom, upon Jesus' death on the cross: There is no more veil. We go directly to Jesus for forgiveness of sins, instead of sacrificing animals. Jesus was declaring to the Jews in every aspect of what went on, that He was God in the flesh.
There is nothing to remember. I do not serve an impotent God who is incapable of bringing anything to remembrance. I serve YHVH, who commanded that I go through Jesus for my salvation.
One mediator between humans and God: Jesus! (1 Timothy 2:5).Then you do not understand what atonement is.
Adam did not sin by blood, so that blood was required {atonement necessary}. His fault was one of mind. There was one who is the first to spill blood and it is he who was marked. For the blood is life to the body only and it is from the spirit the blood gives that life to the body. Why did Abram bring his first-born to the alter? Was it on Adams behalf, certainly not. So also it was not on Adams blood they swore.
To those of a sin mentality -the old man- yes. The new man does not know sin.
Again, who put the veil over Moshe face?
And even while Moshiach hung still on the tree, the veil was torn and temple shook to its foundation. For this symbolizes the end of the separation of the holy of holies -which is Creator within. It was not Moshiach who tore the curtain, nor shook the temple, nor rolled the stone back -it was Creator.
And still, even afterward, the Spirit did not come, because the grave had not yet been overthrown. For no man escaped the grave -ever- because of Adams fault. Not even the one sent to save them. For the Creator cannot strive with flesh {what decays, dies and exists no more} for He is Spirit which cannot die nor sin. But, when the grave was overthrown, by the Spirit, the Restoration began. And the firstborn from that grave is proof of the Fathers words -of the Fathers testimony, that He would restore all things to Himself.
Look in Revelation 20.5-6. Has there been a resurrection before this or after? No. Then the Restoration is complete and every man has access to the Kingdom of Heaven, which is Creator within, which IS salvation.
You say there is nothing to remember, yet you do not know who you are and further say Creator can bring thigs to your memory. This is a mind divided. This is the thinking of an amnesiac. Furthermore, Creator NEVER commanded anyone to go through Moshaich for salvation, for Moshiach cannot save any, not even himself. And further, you are not commanded to go through the bible, because it too cannot save you. Even Moshiach says this "[i]You study with depth and intent, every yod {stroke of each letter} of Scripture {Torah} for in them you think and believe you have found salvation --or that you can understand that salvation by keeping those words --or that you should be righteous by binding those words between the eyes, wrapped on the shoulder, bound to door posts, to remember them in your coming and going; to recite them, quote them and memorize them, as if they have any power to free you from the grave....
James."It was not Moshiach who tore the curtain, nor shook the temple, nor rolled the stone back -it was Creator."
And yet Jesus said "I and my Father are ONE", in John 10:30?
"Furthermore, Creator NEVER commanded anyone to go through Moshaich for salvation, for Moshiach cannot save any, not even himself."
What the heck are you reading, anyway?
You're falling for "serpent doctrine", which is anything other than what God said, in a nutshell. Think that God, YHVH the Creator, can't preserve His intent in the words that are written down? The "serpent", who is Lucifer the Satan (Accuser), was in the Garden of Eden too.
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:5.
Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Not just good, not just evil, but both. It was a lie, just to get them to disobey God. "You'll make your own laws, your own morals, and do what you want. It'll be great!" Or at least, that is what Satan wants us to think. Because being like God, is to create our own laws, and seek our own answers, without God's direction.
Because we don't like God's answers, we make up our own. This is why you're spouting off nonsense, in complete contradiction to what God said. The spirit of what God said, can't contradict itself. Man certainly can, and we all have many times, not just you, James or I. I'm willing to bet, very few of us here speak a lick of Yiddish, Hebrew, or even Aramaic. Does anyone know Koine Greek, intrinsically? I know a guy with a PhD that says that you're very, very wrong.
Did ya grow up in a church, and always got told you were going to hell? That's exactly what Satan wants us to think. Do you think that Jesus said, beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing, for nothing? There are all kinds of false prophets, Jesus warned us of them, don't fall for it.
Open your heart back up to Almighty God, and ask Him for guidance, after confessing your sins to Him. Just say, "I'm sorry I doubted you, God. The times are so confusing, people are all talking at once, desperately trying to be heard in vain. They talk over each other, and pat each other on the back. I don't understand what is happening! Could you just show me what you mean?"
Believe me, He will lead you to the truth. And say that you have the truth now? Yeah, I understand, everyone has their own truth. Their own "path" on the spiritual road. Well, I can tell you that your road leads to doom. Go down the road God told you to travel. Yeah, it ain't easy, and you will not understand a bit of it at first, but you'll eventually get it. That is why you have to trust God. That is what faith is: Trust.
You don't need me or anyone else to tell you how to find God. Just sincerely ask, cry out to Him with every fiber of your body. You know why we all talk over each other, wanting to be heard? Because we all think God can't hear us! We all want answers, but demand only answers that match what we think. Jesus said he would reveal all things to us, just ask Him, and don't doubt it.
People are seriously writing stuff, just to get paid. People find things to write about, that to me seem completely asinine. It is like no one cares what the ending of the book is: The good guys win.
But no one wants to talk about the spiritual stuff, because it is so controversial. No one wants to be labeled as crazy, or as someone who has "voices in their heads". So, no one talks about this very important stuff.
Jesus mentioned our collective enemy, by name. Jesus warned us of this 'ole crafty fellow, because Satan is not God's enemy. Satan is our enemy. God has no equals, no enemies. The very nature of any enemy, is stealth, and you can't "sneak in" on God's watch.
And yes, I have an answer for the "all knowing" vs "free will" argument, which I will address later. This is going on plenty long enough, but I care enough to tell you why I think the way I do. For now, just look at these two quotes, and consider the consequences if both are true:
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." - Ephesians 6:12.@Ceegen, how do you know you haven't fallen for a different "serpent" doctrine? And just because a guy has a PhD, does not make him right or righteous.
Yes, Jesus said that he and his father are one, but he also reminded his enemies who were about to stone him, "ye are gods." Look again at Genesis 1:26 with the viewpoint of God's love and the knowledge that God is not Homo sapiens or ego. Know also that God created man again in Genesis 2:7, from the dust of the ground. And dust has nothing to do with the image of God. Ponder on Genesis 6:3, for new meaning is there.
Do you have pride in your knowledge of scripture? Do you think you know what it means and anyone who disagrees doesn't? Or are you humble and hungry for every scrap of meaning that still eludes you?
Do you know that reincarnation and karma are in the Old Testament and the New, as well? And Hebrews 9:27 says nothing about reincarnation.
http://www.the-love-of-god.com/reincarn … -bible.php
I grew up in my Southern Baptist minister grandfather's church, but left it early to study other religions. Something great was missing from my grandfather's message.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV).
I have been outside my physical, human body and seen the world without the need of eyes -- as clearly as anything. I have experienced many miracles, all to the glory of the Heavenly Father -- one comparable to that of Moses parting the sea. But I know this: I have yet much to learn before I am worthy.
Don't be so arrogant. My ego can smell yours a mile away. Let us help each other eliminate our egos. With that false self we continue to trip ourselves up. Much of what you say is good. Much of what James says is good. Be humble and learn. Open your heart to scripture through the eyes of others. I have seen the dogma of church, perverted by 1500 years of Constantinian and Justinian meddling. Their doctrines were political, not spiritual and they have corrupted the church. Don't give in to their dark side.I don't go to church. Why does everyone assume that because I'm all for Jesus, I'm Christian? Christians celebrate pagan holidays, like "Christmas" and "Easter". I'm more of a Messianic Jew than a Christian, in that regards. Sephardic Jew by birth, as far back as I have traced from Portugal/Spain back in the 1300's I think it was?
What about it?
This dialogue explains itself.
Moshiach explains he is about to leave them. They want to go with him, but cannot go the Way he is going. Why? Because it was his destiny to go to the grave on their behalf. And expressly he tells them you know the way I am going. They already knew and understood what was going to happen. He was going to come back from the grave and show them how to enter the same stasis he would be in -immortal.
Tomas goes into denial and makes the claim he does not know. Moshiach reminds him of the Path/Way. He explains that Way -that Path- is the only way he can go. A Way which will lead to the Restoration and access to immortality - just as Adam walked with Creator so again all men will be able to walk. When Moshiach says he is the Way -he is the Path; he is the Truth -the Father words in him; he is the Life -the Spirit, he speaking correctly. It is the Father speaking to them, through him. That term is called ruach which is precisely the same term used in Genesis when man is created. It is the Breath of Life, it is the Truth.
Moshaich reiterates, nearly half a dozen times, it is the Father {Creator, Spirit} who is in him and in them. That he was not able to do anything without the Father. That even the words he was speaking were the Fathers words and not his own. "The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."
This is later verified on the cross when the one thief says, "He saved us but cannot save himself."
And then again when -not by his own power {making him Creator aka God}- was raised from the dead to become the Firstborn of many.
So, when people speak of Moshaich as Creator himself, they are incorrect in that view. Should they say Creator {who is the Spirit} is in him -and them as well- then this is the Truth. Anything else is pagan, is ego, is incorrect, is a mentality still bound to the concept of sin {Wisdom divided aka Reason, good-evil; clean-unclean; right-wrong}.
JamesI have no idea what happened to my reply, so, starting over from scratch.
All this self-wisdom junk is nothing more than serpent doctrine. Satan back in the garden told Eve a very pleasant sounding lie. It was good to look at, to behold. She made her own judgment, and decided for herself to "partake of the fruit".
Consider and contrast these two quotes:
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." - Ephesians 6:12
and
"All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu.
One biblical, one secular. What if they're both telling the truth? God has no equals, no enemies: He is singular, existing as "aspects" which is why God has many names. The many names do not mean more than one God, but rather it describes God's disposition at that specific time. It gives HUGE insight into the bible. He wants us to know Him!
Satan is not God's enemy, Satan is already defeated. Even the Words of God are in the mouths of His enemies.Creator has no enemies.
If so, then there is another equal to Him. And there is none who can compare to the Ineffable Everything.
Learn this today:
ha~satan: a Hebrew pronoun for the ego.
ha in Hebrew is "the" and satan is "ego"
that which offends, blocks the Way, hedges up; places a stumbling block; burdens; accuses; oppresses; hinders; hides the brightness from, casts a shadow, weakens, divides, deceives, confuses, causes to forget, etc etc. This term in Hebrew means Ego, not a 'fallen angel'.
Mans ego rose up and divided Truth in him, that he separated himself from himself and from his created nature and thus from Creator. He cut himself off and indulged the million, billion beautiful threads of light in his brain. He traded Immortality {perfection of thinking, living} for Reason {good-evil; clean-unclean; life-death; righteous-unrighteous; joy-sorrow, etc}. Remember...
"For as Moshe lifted up the serpent in that wilderness; so then the son of Man must be lifted up".
Ask yourself why he made this comparison.
-- Why there was a serpent on the staff which Moshe carried before Pharaoh, that one serpent should eat the other serpents.
-- Why Moshe was forbidden to enter-in when he struck the rock for water, with the serpent staff
-- Why he lifted up the serpent in the dry places
JamesExactly, Lucifer was full of pride. There is the Prince of Tyre, and then there is the King of Tyre. Lucifer lifted up his heart above that of God's, and exalted himself. Serpent doctrine is nothing more than self.
To deny self, is to deny that you have the answers to salvation, and admit you're a sinner in need of salvation. Just trust what God said. Don't listen to what "religion", yourself or I, or anyone else is telling you about God - Just ask Him! He is a Living God for a reason: He can interact with you.
Just be willing to be wrong, again and again, because the bible will challenge your world-view on every level.
God bless.
Beautifully put, James.
Alas! It seems that @Ceegen still has too much ego to open his heart to the spirit of the word. Is he a literalist? Doesn't he know the letter "killeth?"
The only way to walk on water is to give up yourself (ego). I'm still struggling with mine, despite the miracles I've seen. Someone with that much ego would likely sink like a stone. I hope @Ceegen wakes up to humility soon. There is still so much more to learn. And perhaps some Justinian doctrine to unlearn.
I and my Father have been one, on occasion. I long to make that permanent. I hope we all do.
- Emile Rposted 11 years ago
0Only to be enslaved by your idea of truth? What drives people to insist on consensus? What stake do you have in other people's beliefs?
What drives people to insist on consensus? Mostly, blind faith on something.
So, you started the thread calling for consensus; therefore admitting blind faith? Haven't we had enough trouble throughout history with those who come to a consensus, and form their little clubs, on the questions of the spiritual? Why attempt to start another one?
It's your another belief that this is a call for consensus.
Really? I find it interesting that you believe that. Given that what you wrote in the OP is there for you to reread.
So, it's your opinion if everyone agreed to acquiesce to your request to confess to have the same beliefs; that would not involve a consensus?
We all have blind faith in something. I consider myself atheist, but I have blind faith in my lack of belief. I have faith my children will do good in life, in my husband, in my employer, there is nothing we can do in life without a little faith. If believing in the supernatural possibilities puts one at ease then why do they need to give that up?
Do you have a faith in your employer? Too good!
If you have faith that your husband will not leave you, or that your children will always love you, then that is actually your knowledge, not faith. Based on that intimate knowledge, you can now predict. That's not how faith works.
Wow, 4 hours in, 46 posts, 5 threads, zero hubs and wham! right to god/no-god? Reporting this & profile as: sockpuppet.
This stuff is getting to be beyond ridiculous.
James.I noticed that too...I was hoping that some conversation may expose if this is actually somebody known from the forums or actually a new person..lol
Oddly, SockPuppet went right to Mr Godwins Hub about forum banning and commented.
Then proceeded to make a bunch of threads playing naive.
James.I am still here because, unfortunately, I created some threads before leaving this place. Too bad, I should have left this place earlier. Get a life Mr. less. You have a great site for the unsuspecting.
Terribly sorry, Mr Smith, but you all look and sound the same to me...
All your threads will end when you end. `tis in the rules.
Good life, anyone new is a sockpuppet. This is oddly somewhat religious. Making predictions without knowing a person. Good life.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
It seems the originator of this thread has actually been here for 20 months now.
http://ianhudson.hubpages.com/
There is also something familiar about him that reminds me of a hubber that used to go by the handle marinealways. There was once a philosopher by the name of Feuerbach who asserted that the idea of God is a creation of man, not the other way around.
I find that argument compelling but do not necessarily agree. Ultimately no one will ever know the truth.- Bunnyknowerposted 11 years ago0
Freedom from God? Serving God is a choice. God gives Freedom to the slave and His burden is light. God doesn't force anyone to serve Him, but His Spirit brings in to a Loving Embrace those who will listen. I refuse to deny my God because I have experienced Him. You can't dip your toes in to God and expect to pull them out any time and still receive the Blessings with skeptical intentions.
@Grandys, twisted!
You could just as easily have said this:
We all know how insanity works, and how the concept of physical reality is a myth. Come out now and confess that you want freedom from the hoax called life.
Yes, that is twisted. And you're making a conversation based on this? Twisted, cracked and looney. Good luck with that.
God is life. Science studies the products of His creation. Miracles exist even in modern day -- not just the mamby-pamby accidental and ordinary variety, but the extraordinary variety that confound the laws of physical reality -- confounding gravity, probability, physical commensurability, surface tension and any other aspect of what we call nature. No amount of accident would allow for 2 men to walk on water in a raging sea. No amount of accident would allow another sea to be parted and the sea bed to become dry within moments. No amount of accident would allow for 2 miles of thick, rush-hour traffic to open up like Moses parting the sea within seconds of the prayer that asked for it.
God is Truth, for He is the Source of all that we see and feel.- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
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