Below this was sent to me so I thought I'd shared it with some of you.
I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT A HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL CAN SEE THE PROBLEM, BUT OUR SOCIETY CANNOT.
This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game atRoane County High School , Kingston , Tennessee, by school principal, Jody McLeod
"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country."
Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court,
I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate life style,"
and, if someone is offended,
I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex."
If someone is offended, that's OK.
I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable" means of birth control."
If someone is offended, no problem...
I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess, "Mother Earth", and call it "ecology.."
I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom
that depicts people with strong, traditional Christian convictions
as "simple minded" and "ignorant"
and call it "enlightenment.."
However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship,
then Federal Case Law is violated.
This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical.
Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.
Nevertheless , as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree.
For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical.
I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally.
I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.
For this reason,
I shall "Render unto Caesar
that which is Caesar's,"
and refrain from praying
at this time.
" However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD
and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to bless this event,
please feel free to do so..
As far as I know,
that's not against the law--yet."
One by one,
the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.
They prayed in the stands.
They prayed in the team huddles.
They prayed at the concession stand
and they prayed
in the Announcer's Box!
The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America-
the Seat of "Justice"
in the "one nation, under GOD."
Somehow, Kingston , Tennessee,
remembered what so many have forgotten.
We are given
the Freedom OF Religion,
not the Freedom
that HIS remnant remains!
"If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER.."
I'm not one bit ashamed to pass this on, are you?
"We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion"
Interesting statement, does it say you have the freedom to chose which religion you want, but not the freedom to not chose religion?
Why not through in a muslim and a jewish and Sikhism prayer while your at it? Would that make it okay? Well we can't leave anyone out lets have a prayer from every known religion there is at least 80.
Most other religion have a country representing their faith and those countries aren't ashame to show the world who they are by faith.
Which countries? Certainly not the countries with a separation of church and state. The U.S. and Canada have that separation and both countries are the result of immigrants of many nations. And all it's people should be represented.
It is absolutely ridiculous to ignore all the history pertaining to America regarding the contribution of Christian people, I said Christian, not Buddha, not Muslim I said Christian.
People talk about separation of church and state while using the money in America that says "in God we trust." It seems to me that if other countries present better opportunities no one is holding anyone here in America.
Ah, there we go. Intolerance of others faith. You know BTW In God we Trust doesn't mean In Jesus we Trust. It just implies the faithful. New laws are written for the good of the country everyday. Constitutions have to change when there is an injustice. And it is unjust treat your fellow Americans with such disrespect.
Iran comes to mind. Did you know that Iran has no gays? Did you know women in Saudi Arabia can't drive. If you think a Christian government wouldn't do the same have a look at the last time they controlled any government. Europe in the middle ages anyone?
What about those who call atheism a religion?
Its not illegal to pray in school. Its illegal to force people to pray...
Two things. First, whoever announced that over the PA should have already gotten their termination papers: the entire nation knows quite well that pushing ANY religion, Christian or otherwise, in our schools is prohibited. Ignoring that directive from the supreme court should certainly be grounds for immediate dismissal.
Second, in no way do I believe that hundreds or thousands of people of all faiths, including atheism, spontaneously joined hands and prayed. A few, sure - there are always people that believe that the constitution of the US applies to everyone but them - but the majority know better.
Oh, I don't know, peer pressure is a powerful thing, especially in schools. I imagine anyone who didn't bow their head in obedience er, prayer, would have risked standing out in a time of life when standing out is a bad thing, can lead to bullying etc. Indoctrination at it's finest..... (where is the being sick emoticon?)
I'm sure those of us who enjoy being Americans would like other people to understand our loyalty to the country so if you all will join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation UNDER GOD!!
You do realize that the 'under God' was a later insertion? It seems real Americans didn't initially see a need to include it.
One of the most beautiful things about being American is freedom of conscience. I'm sorry you don't understand how precious of a gift that is and feel the need to see it as a threat.
I'm sorry you feel the need to ignore all that the Christians gave to this country.
The fact that the word Under God was in fact put on our money and steal is on our money bears witness to their desire to have it.
It was put on the paper money in the 1950's as propaganda in the cold war against the "Godless Commies". That was around when they added "Under God" to the pledge of allegiance. Just saying that McCarthyism was the major influence.... not Christianity and certainly not our forefathers.
Just thought you should know...
What baffles me is the fact that it is on our money and one would not spend the money on in engraved plates to put a message down they didn't care about, that makes no sense.
The inauguration of our president is done so with the Bible and before they stopped the practice telling the truth was done by placing ones down the Bible does say that Christianity wasn't a part of America structure says one of us is misinformed.
I am with you Span...Lets get this country straight back into following the bible...Lets kill all the adulterers, kids who talk back, anyone who works on the sabbath, sell our daughters for slaves, force men to marry the women they rape or pay a price if they don't, have our parents decide who we are gonig to marry, place women back down to the level of pets or farm animals within the household, marry your brothers wife if he dies and have children for him, kill anyone who tries to teach anything other than the God of the bible, kill all gay people or anyone who might be a witch, I mean if we are going to follow the bible in how we run our country then lets do it right...Seriously...Lets take things right back to the damn stoneage...
The biggest part of the freedoms that you currently enjoy would all go away if we followed the bible completely. And since very few can agree on what the bible actually means, this country would be divided and fall apart so fast it wouldn't even be funny (Ever wonder why the Middle east have so much trouble maintaining a solid government). It is already happening...How about we stop worring about what God someone believes in or don't believe in and worry about getting the business that is our government back in the black and running smoothly. And the last I checked, there are no religous requirements for obtaining business degrees, operating a business or owning a business. It is all about the bottom line...And right at the moment ours isn't doing so well. I am curious...If you owned a business would you hire and keep someone on staff who believed the same as you but didn't do the job you pay them for and continued to send you company farther into the red each year? Or would you fire them and find someone who got the job done and got you back into the black? One might wish to think about this when voting to elect government officials. Instead of worring about where their beliefs lie, find someone who can fix the danged problems we are currently facing. This country was built on Freedom of Religion...Meaning that all of them have their place and it isn't in the government. Just because alot of our leaders have been Christians, doesn't mean that the country is.
Christianity certainly was a part of our heritage. It gave us such things as slavery, racial discrimination, sweat shops to work small children half to death in, a demand that ALL Americans pay homage to their god (through the pledge and money) and women treated as sub class of people.
Should we keep all these things, then, or should we pick and choose among the things our fine "Christian" forefathers gave us as Christians do with their bible? Or just acknowledge that Christianity has faults that we no longer find acceptable and refuse to allow Christianity, or any other religion, to dictate what our country is?
Personally, I think it's past time to eliminate the travesty from our government. Not society - Christians are and should be able to worship in peace - but from demands that everyone else join them through force of law or even custom.
I think you would find that McCarthyism was heavily based on Christianity, and in the same manner that radical Islam is today. If you're not with us totally you're against us and must be removed from right thinking society.
The American spirit isn't the property of Christians. It isn't Christianity that contributed. It is individuals.
You mean the same way you ignore the contributions of non-Christians? The Pot calling the Kettle?
Neither Did the Baptist Preacher who wrote it.
I would not want the school telling kids what to think about any of these issues. They are there to teach literacy, numeracy, how the world is and critical thinking. Not what religion to have, what sex to have, or what baby to have.
So yes, I would be ashamed of making or passing on that statement. But then apparently I am not welcome in that school anyway. That statement says as much which is not about being insulted, but about being excluded--in a place my tax dollars support as much as anyone else's.
As it was in the beginning it is still so today. The only ones we really care about is self.
During the days of Jesus men and women were clearly selfish, arrogant I wonder if that still goes on today?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!"
It is fascinating to me how little we see ourselves in our complaints of others. Your premise for this thread was all about self, with a fabricated scenario of individual desires to push the beliefs of one group of individuals onto all other groups being thwarted by the government's attempts to protect the rights of other individuals. Of one individual using his position to step on a soap box to complain about how his personal beliefs should take precedence over the beliefs of others. That is classic 'all about self'.
Human nature apparently has a difficult time recognizing itself when in close proximity.
A quote that has been used and abused by Christians in order to absolve themselves of culpability when they should be the first to understand and heed the sage advice.
Well apparently it is still going on people so full of themselves they can't see beyond their own words.
This may come as a shock to you but freedom means people are allowed to present their perspective on issues which may or may not agree with all who are involved in conversing.
If reading others viewpoints and perspectives as being taken to mean forcible indoctrination then I question how much did the person learn when and if they went to school?
Perhaps it is not the words that are convicting people perhaps it's their guilt.
I don't follow your train of thought there. Who said anything about forcible indoctrination? I shouldn't have to sit through religious crap at a public gathering. That is what your OP is about and my understanding of your argument is that Christians should have full right to force others to participate in their rituals.
I don't have a thing against Christianity. I have no problem dealing with this type of behavior because it is something I've had to deal with all of my life. But, what you fail to understand is that if you gain the right to force your views on others it opens the door to allow the current majority to ride herd over the rest of us.
That might suit your fancy now. What will you do when you are no longer the majority. Quietly disappear?
To be forced to do something some aspects of your freedom has been denied you. You speak of being forced to endure religious information I take that to mean you are denied the freedom to walk away. You are denied the freedom to ignore that which is being spoken to you. If however these incidents did not occur you have been forced to do NOTHING!
So, let me get this straight. Children have the right to walk out of school so prayer should be permitted? We have the right to walk out of a sporting event, so prayer should be permitted? We have the right to walk away from city council meetings, so prayer should be permitted?
What happens if the kid wants an education, I want my money's worth when I've paid to see my kids play a game; or I want to speak at the council meeting? Is it our tough luck? Because you have the right to insist your beliefs must take center stage?
By your reasoning, I could say the same to you. Why don't Christians just leave and do their thing at home?
I daresay that the same laws which gives people the right not to go to church, not to pray, are the same rights guaranteed in the Constitution for people to worship as they so please.
Perhaps you don't know this but for reasons other than prayer in school people feel they can get a better education for their kids by enrolling them in to private schools, just something to consider.
I daresay perhaps it is you who should put your children in a private school where there are only like minded Christians. You see PUBLIC schools are just that. PUBLIC = of or concerning the people as a whole.
I hope your comments isn't some poor representation of Public School teaching for my previous response was a Choice and for reasons other than some stereotypical view of Christian practice.
I believe what you were doing was teller her that if she wanted to not have prayers in school she should go to a private school. Public schools are for all. If you want prayer go to a private school.
Well Rad Man
What you have is an opinion so let's just keep it that way and stop thinking you can or have the right to tell other people how to live their live, that one of the problems bring this country down.
You seem to be the one telling people when and where they should pray and demand that if they don't like PRAYER in a PUBLIC (for all the people) they should send the kids to a privite school. Why not send kids to a christian school if they want to pray. I don't think it's a difficult concept.
Apparently the concept is very difficult for you. Being an atheist or a nonbeliever Does Not in and of Itself Mean You Are Right. Science is merely a means of understanding that which already exist and man's attempt at understanding science has demonstrated that scientific knowledge have been wrong a number of times who is regulating the information children having been sent out with wrong information consistently?
People like you profess to know so much how is it that you Can't Even Get That Which You Believe Is Right?
This conversation has nothing to do with science or me being an Atheist. It is about you thinking that Christian prayer should take place in a PUBLIC school where none Christian people attend. You seem to be saying non Christians should go to a private school, but you don't seem to understand the very definition of PUBLIC.
I believe I did get what I believe to be right. No prayer in a public school, for that go to a private christian school.
You're referring to Christianity and the Evangelicals who tell us how to live our lives, right?
A Trouble Man
I would like for you to get a letter or something from anybody who is demanding to do something. It seems to me that if anyone was demanding to do anything you would be taking legal action and not simply complaining.
If part of that worshiping required is for Christians to tell us how to live our lives, does that count as being under the Constitution?
Again, I'm confused. Are you suggesting that prayer be allowed to be forced in schools and those who don't want to pray should seek an education elsewhere? If so, do you think at all before you hit submit?
I think this is one of those times when someone hits the like button on Facebook without thinking and then tries justify their mistake.
Once again your views and the people who think like you are not the only one that dictate how other people should live how difficult is that to understand?
A scenario: let's say that an evangelist station for television is only one in the entire broadcasting area. Because you and whoever might think like you doesn't care for this station means it should be taken off the air-I presume that is your perspective?
Not by a longshot. If they are broadcasting and not using tax dollars to do it, why should they be stopped? What in the world does that have to do with forced prayer in schools?
The illustration I presented is the biased view done by people who focused is on their own interest.
Prove where people are being forced to pray in or out of school the optimum term here is PROVE.
When I was a child we had a teacher come in once a week to give us religious training in the public school. There was no option, it was a part of the public school curriculum. For someone to stand up and lead an assembly in prayer leaves no option, except to leave.
It boggles my mind that the religious are so weak minded that they can't summon the intestinal fortitude to follow their beliefs without forced group participation. What does that say to you? I know what it says to me.
Well that all depends on wether it's funded by the PUBLIC. If it's privately funded then who cares. Do you seriously not see the difference.
If it's funded by the Public then the public should be allowed to say it.
You do realize that a publicly funded school mean all are allowed to attend including muslims, budists and Jews and Atheists or whoever else wants to attend. If one want to only be surrounded by Christians the go to a private Christian school.
"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute—where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote—where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference—and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish—where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source—where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials—and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all. I do not speak for my church on public matters—and the church does not speak for me. Whatever issue may come before me as President—on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject—I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise." ~~ JFK
No, we are denied the right to not have to listen to Christians telling us how to live our lives in the first place.
Christians are not "presenting their perspective on issues" when they tell us how to live our lives, they are regurgitating ancient myths and superstitions they have accepted through indoctrination. You might as well hit the play button.
What ever educational institution you may have went to it seems to me you missed the part in America's history where the first school teachers were Nuns.
What's your point? Because the first school teacher were nun's they should forever be nuns?
The point is based on the entire conversation of religion in school religious teachings started out in public school do you not see the difference?
It matter's not how it started out does it? If something is broken you fix it. In parts of Canada they have both public and Catholic schools funded by the public. They also have private schools. You get to choose which school to go to. If you are not Catholic you send your kid to the PUBLIC (for all) school. Is this hard to understand? PUBLIC (for all).
It is clear to me that at least the three of you are interested in nothing more then to attack religious perspectives -the three that I see Rad Man, Emile and one I've known for a long time A Trouble Man.
There is no communication here so I will not continue this folly any longer. Hopefully I will encounter others who will have a more intellectual perspective on the issues.
I guess she gave herself an out. If you are not agreeing with her you are not in conversation with her.
No. you hope to converse with others who agree with you. You want everything one sided. I'm afraid life doesn't work that way.
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