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The Power of Prayer

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    Sooner28posted 4 years ago

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 … 99867.html

    Maybe God is too busy, and that's why children in these cases die...

    1. Ceegen profile image83
      Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Funny how the same people who talk about overpopulation and survival of the fittest, get so angry at the death of one person whom they've never met. Death is an inevitability anyway, why should anyone care?

      I know, sounds callous, but sarcasm isn't conveyed in text very well. For that matter, the same people who lament the death of a 16 year old young man, have no compunction against murdering the unborn. What kind of illogical madness is this?

      Besides that, from my personal perspective, I think God allows people to die in the flesh for a multitude of reasons. But when it comes to the young who seem to die a seemingly arbitrary death, I think God allows them to die for one reason...

      If God is as all-knowing as I believe Him to be, then I would think that God allows people to die young simply because He knows that at a later date, they would sin and never repent and thus not enter into heaven. He knows the bleak future these people have in this unforgiving and sinful world, and allows them to die, simply because He doesn't want them to spiritually die.

      Some people are just too good for hell, and I trust God's judgment in these matters over our own aforementioned illogical madness.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No idea, please explain your illogical madness.



        Wow, I've heard some callous explanations defending religion, but that one is right up there on top.

        1. Love virus profile image61
          Love virusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Trouble with no hubs, ha ha ha.

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            Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yup.  His 'no hubs' seem to be equal to your 'no hubs.'

            Don't you ever tire of this?

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        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Let me get this straight. You think God kills (allows to die) only the weak minded sinners? He's just weeding out the bad ones while they are good? Why doesn't he do that to all the sinners before they grow up. All those mass murders he lets live? You logic does not work as there are many bad people still around. Hitler is an example, why did not God let him die as a child. Wait I know why, there is no God.

        1. Ceegen profile image83
          Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You think God kills (allows to die) only the weak minded sinners?

          That isn't what I said, at all. But because evil exists, good must exist also, or we wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

          All those mass murders he lets live?

          "For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." - 1 Corinthians 4:9

          Whatever happens here on earth, is somehow related to what is going on in the spiritual aspect of all of this, because we are a "spectacle" to the angels. How all that works out, I don't know. I just trust God, and it has worked for me. I have been close to death enough to know that I should not be alive right now, and I don't think it is a coincidence or "good luck". Life, just as assuredly as death, has purpose.

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        Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am so tired of this.

        Do you even understand evolution?

        People who believe that evolution happened do not propose that it is the most efficient or humane way to progress.  Why do you confuse the facticity of evolution with how human beings should be treated?

        Why do you even claim such a thing?  Capitalists are the ones who buy into evolution in such a way.

        God is allegedly all good and all powerful, and answers prayers.  Why, when someone has faith more than the size of a mustard seed do they still die?

        Your explanation is also disgusting.  According to that logic, God should just kill us all before we have a chance to sin.

        1. Ceegen profile image83
          Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Do you even understand evolution?

          Yes, I do. Assume that because I believe the bible, I somehow do not understand what evolution presumes? Do ya think I just sort of grew up with this world-view? Because I wasn't always a believer, and if I were to simply pick a religion I would have picked one that was more of a benefit to myself. But I came to the conclusion that the bible offers the best view of the world, and the origins of evil.

          Why do you confuse the facticity of evolution with how human beings should be treated?

          How do thoughts and emotions, which are the basis of morals, "evolve"? How does being an intelligent, sentient moral agent sit with you? Do you not like the idea that others can have a world-view which differs from your own?

          Why do you even claim such a thing?  Capitalists are the ones who buy into evolution in such a way.

          So you admit that some people who adhere to evolution, think in this manner? There are different sects of evolutionism, and the "evoltional-capitalist" does think this way. Don't lump me in with all Christians, and I won't lump you in with all evolutionists, okay?

          Why, when someone has faith more than the size of a mustard seed do they still die?

          Death is an inevitability, and I am not afraid of dying any more. But something about death bothers you, whether or not you are personally afraid of dying, that you made a post about it.

          According to that logic, God should just kill us all before we have a chance to sin.

          What is illogical and impossible to you, doesn't matter.

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            Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The way you spoke of evolution made you sound like you didn't understand it, arguing it necessarily should be applied as a political philosophy, when that isn't what is required at all.

            You also have failed to respond to any of my actual points.  Sometimes these forums make me question my sanity.

            1. Ceegen profile image83
              Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You also have failed to respond to any of my actual points.

              Can't help it if you don't like the answers...

      4. twosheds1 profile image60
        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "If God is as all-knowing as I believe Him to be, then I would think that God allows people to die young simply because He knows that at a later date, they would sin and never repent and thus not enter into heaven."

        By that logic, we have no free will and our fate is predetermined, therefore it doesn't matter if we lead a good life or not. I suspect that isn't quite what you had in mind.

        1. Ceegen profile image83
          Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Just because God knows what we're going to choose, doesn't mean He made the choice for us.

          1. twosheds1 profile image60
            twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            But if God knows, then our choices are predetermined, and we don't have free will. If we truly have free will, then God can't know what we will do ahead of time.

            1. Ceegen profile image83
              Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Uhhh, yeah He can. Why couldn't God both know what will happen ahead of time, and then purposefully not intervene in certain cases? Many are called, few are chosen -- Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin.

              You put boundaries on something you simply do not understand.

              Knowing that drinking and driving can get people killed, doesn't stop people from drinking and driving. Knowing that getting caught cheating on your spouse will make people have negative feelings, doesn't stop people from cheating on their spouses. Or as my dad used to say, "You don't need a broken leg to know it's going to hurt."

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                Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly, thank you!

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thus, making it indistinguishable from random acts, which is far more easier to understand than some egotistical god showing favoritism to some and not others.

                1. Ceegen profile image83
                  Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If God were egotistical, He would have no need of you. He could just look in a mirror all day and be content.

                  Egoists drink and drive, and cheat on their spouses. When an egoist gets a broken leg, they then declare how unfair it is that they have a broken leg. Not knowing that their punishment is just and righteous, they blame God for every problem they have, though they claim to not believe that God exists.

              3. twosheds1 profile image60
                twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin."

                Again, by that logic, we have no free will, and nothing we do will change our ultimate destiny. I'm not saying God makes the choice for us, but if he knows what it will be ahead of time, it is by definition pre-determined.

                "You put boundaries on something you simply do not understand."

                And you make excuses for something you can't explain.

                1. Ceegen profile image83
                  Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Again, by that logic, we have no free will, and nothing we do will change our ultimate destiny. I'm not saying God makes the choice for us, but if he knows what it will be ahead of time, it is by definition pre-determined.

                  The Greek word for "impute" in the verse means "to count, reckon, calculate" (Romans chapter 4, verse 8). It isn't that these people can't sin, it's just that God forgives them every single time even before they ask, because their purpose is so important that He is willing to continually forgive them. He doesn't "count" their sins against them.

                  That is also why I combined that with the other verse; many are called, few are chosen (Matthew 22:14). It is only for a select few that sin will not be imputed. God elected them, and the elect boldly stand for God. He picked the best among us, to lead us to God, not because He's playing favorites but because He is trying to save souls. He could force people to believe in Him, but what kind of love is ever forced? It would be the equivalent of spiritual rape, and God is Holy and Just, not an evil tyrant. He wants us to love and trust Him out of the love of our hearts, and only free will allows this to happen.

                  Satan is a very real enemy, and when we sin, we become one of two things: Willing pawns of Satan, or ignorant pawns of Satan. There are no neutral parties in this, and you only have two choices. You choose your own fate, and it is not "pre-determined" in the sense that your path is already chosen for you, no.

                  If our paths were already chosen, then sin would be a non-issue. If we had no choice in the matter, it would not be us who have sinned, and repentance is totally unnecessary and simply for the mere appearance of forgiveness which would also be a rehearsed affair.

                  I see only a loving and forgiving God who died in the flesh for forgiveness of sins for even those, in hope against hope itself, that He knows will not repent.

                  And you make excuses for something you can't explain.

                  "Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you." - Acts 13:41.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    We are well beyond believing in evil super beings and how others transfer their responsibilities onto them. It's all about ones actions, in ones own mind. And, it's about growing up to face the consequences of ones actions.

                  2. twosheds1 profile image60
                    twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "religion tends to side with stupid, archaic, and authoritarian on social issues." PZ Myers 9/26/12

                    What I really want to know is, why can't I reply to any of the posts beyond this one, but others can?

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            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ceegen, time to figure out where you are.

            One post you say:



            A few posts later you say:



            Well, which is it? In the first post you say God lets babies die because he knows they will do bad so he decides for them. In the second post you say it doesn't mean he made the choice for us. Which is it?

            1. Ceegen profile image83
              Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Letting people die is a condition of sin, a choice we make of our own free will, to turn our backs on God. All humans are born into the curse of the flesh, and are all sinners from the very beginning. Hence, even children and babies can die under the "generational curse" of sin brought on by Adam.

              All of creation groans in pain from sin.

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                Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So let's clarify.

                All human beings are born with the curse of original sin.  This means they must sin.  But, they are somehow held accountable for this sin they could not escape.

                How is this a moral arrangement?

                1. Ceegen profile image83
                  Ceegenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The "generational curse" is simply just being born into a world with sin already in it. We're all under this curse. We're all flesh and blood bodies, and we're all going to die one day. Sorry, but that's the truth. You can't escape a physical death.

                  This doesn't mean that we must sin, but that we must be forgiven of sins.

                  You know, Alcoholics Anonymous is right: The first step to recovery, is admitting you have a problem. You're a sinner in need of repentance, just like everyone else that comes into this world.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry, but curses are childish fairy tales that don't reflect reality.



                    No, we're not. Time to grow up. smile

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                    Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Would you agree that it's possible for a human being to be born and live without sinning throughout the individual's entire life?

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    Rad Manposted 4 years ago

    One has to look no further than any cancer ward to see that prayer doesn't work. Cancer is a equal opportune killing. I think they should have had jail time and lots of it. Keep them away from the other kids please.

    1. ngureco profile image85
      ngurecoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Or better still these parents should be introduced to necrotizing fasciitis, the ‘flesh-eating bacteria’.

  3. jacharless profile image80
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    So, what if this child died at the hands of a 'non-faith healer' parent, guardian or other who does not adhere to medicine? Are they all murders? If so, better start lining up millions and shooting them for not taking a flu shot or a prescribed medication or for allowing their kids to get cancer, coxsackie, Lyme, in the first place.

    Actually, go one step further and arrest, charge, imprison and lethally inject every pharmaceutical company owner, manufacturer, chemist, employee, salesman and every single physician who are responsible -statistically- for the death of millions by prescribed medication, side effect of medication -short or long term relevance, medical malpractice. Then, let's see if the gods of science and sensation are listening to their prayers.

    James.

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      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Are you telling me you wouldn't bring a sick child to a doctor? You'd sit around and pray? I think that's medicine our life expectancy is a lot longer than is used to be during lets say the middle/dark ages when all they could do is pray.

      1/3 of Europe's population died from the black plaque in 10 years. People didn't know that infected rats carried the disease. They thought it was a punishment from God for being wicked. They thought if you were bad, you would get the plaque and die.

      No amount of prayer helped them, it just caused guilt to the sick and dying.

      I had appendicitis as a child, I'm glad my family had brains to think with.

      1. jacharless profile image80
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, I am well aware of this.
        Are you aware, in the mid 1600's a cure for small pox, the plague and various others existed, without the use of vaccinations {or medicine men aka prayer/woo-woo-la-la}?
        And this is actually irrelevant. Should evolution be correct, even creationism, then natural selection takes over. Either a) you or they were meant to die, and by using medicine have prolonged the inevitable and b) you or they are off to a higher plane and equally have prolonged the inevitable -as both have essentially defied natural rules.

        As for prayer v doctor, the lessor of two wrongs is still wrong.
        And, no, both together do not make a right, either.

        James

        1. Max Shelley profile image59
          Max Shelleyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          medicine men used herbal remedies, and natural medicines however there is a mental aspect to healing as well which is why the power of prayer works some of the time, becuase along with whatever the healer did the patient had the belief that they would be healed and therefore they're own body worked harder to heal them. it has nothing to do with the actual words, the words are simply ritual, simply a guide for the mind.

          1. jacharless profile image80
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hullo Max,
            Precisely, and in today's day and age, this technique is called self hypnosis, mind control, The Secret or Positive Power effect. None of which I subscribe to, although many friends swear by it.

            Healing, as I taught in the churches, that am now excommunicated from, is a natural event. It defies the body and minds normal flow of thinking. In many respects is adverse to both. The mind is a processor, nothing more or less. It cannot control anything. It can only do what it is told//commanded. Words are powerful indeed and manifest every single thing humans meditate on -for better or not. But, yes, the energy or power behind those words is actually what makes things happen. Ritual, by prayer, or ritual by dosage of medication, to me, is the issue that needs realignment. Again, neither being correct nor incorrect, just a skewed perception of ego and thus the processor conflicted.

            James.

          2. twosheds1 profile image60
            twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this
    2. chefsref profile image91
      chefsrefposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you really think that a doctor making a mistake is equivalent to a parent letting a child die while they pray away the illness?I hope you have no children, they are doomed

      1. jacharless profile image80
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, actually. The physician is equally as guilty resulting in the death of the human being. Both the parent and the entire conundrum took open themselves the responsibility -by their own doing- to determine the life or death of another human being. By all measures, all should be strung up. Rules are rules. Fair is fair. No? Or do the rules change for one group or another. The only difference between the medicine man and the prayer warrior is the clothing and now much snake oil, smoke, woo-woo-la-la they have at the moment.

        Statistics do not lie. Less than 2000pp last year were cured of any sickness, while over half a million died at the hands of prescribed medicine side effect {effect meaning no fault policy}. Include the rest and it tops one million. Yet 800 billion was profited by prescription medication from children to seniors in 2011, not including surgeries, tests, emergency room care, insurance policy purchases or OTC. Only 3 deaths occurred by people praying while refusing medical treatment.

        James.

        ps, what's up chef from a fellow chef.

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          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Man that's out there. You realize that the law sides with me. And prayer does nothing. Just look at life expectancy man.

          1. jacharless profile image80
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe. Still it is quite reasonable and accurate.
            The life expectancy is a natural occurrence then, yes?

            If yes, than both the prayer or pill pusher are guilty of violating natural law -regardless of human designed protection barriers from other humans, called laws. Justified or no-fault murder is still murder. Even if immediately the sickness is removed or remitted and results in side effects that cause premature or are the imminent cause of death.

            I know this because of a parent  contracting of some rare type A cancer. A remarkable brain surgery, which I thanked Dr M~ personally for. But, the massively intense chemotherapy (and hospice morphine plethora) is what they confirmed actually killed her, not cancer. The amount spent on treatment was twice their mortgage. They had done the prayer thing too.

            So, in my mind, at least in this case, everyone -including the Orthodox priest and excluding the neurosurgeon- deserves lethal injection, period, if each contributed by their own method, complete rational and adult reason//education, to the unnatural death of a human being. That is, if I was concerned with these methods.

            James

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              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The problem this is that you are looking at medicine in the U.S. Canadian's don't pay for treatment (well we do through taxes), but there intention is to heal, sometimes it doesn't work, but it's the intention that is important. Someone praying for the recovery of a Child without medical intervention is NOT looking to the child's well fair. They are looking to prove God hells with prayer. Which he does not. If he did then one particular version of God would stand out as having less sick. This is not the case. Only people lying for God will tell you that prayer heals.

              1. jacharless profile image80
                jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, I am not sure which g/God(s) people pray to.
                In my own life, have seen healing without medication, on more than one occasion, by persons close to me.
                The issue has nothing to do with the ritual applied or any sort of belief. I do not pray to any g/God, yet know without a doubt the force that is behind the universe, whom I reference as Creator, is within me --and everyone else. So, unlike the "oh god, please help me!" syndrome//prayer or massive mechanical//synthetic medical approach, can say this with full assurance. Not many I know, or have dealt with while in various ministries (full gospel to healing//demon casting types) can say this. If fact less than a few -maybe a handful at most. Have more credible individuals void of both religion and science who have been cured of ills, which makes it even more mind boggling.

                Still, since the 1920's medicine in the States has become nothing less than big business as has another forms of religion. (And yes, many sciences to me a religious by their very nature, especially fundamental & practical medicine). Both sides of this are negligible.

                In the OP case, the parents are at fault for using ritual belief systems as equally the pharma system is to blame for their inability to cure, heal thoroughly, no side effects, in every case which may or may not have contributed to the parent approach. I am inclined to think it was a combo of both elements that assisted in their decision.

                James.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Come one. I had my appendix removed when I was 13 with no side effects. What are you talking about?

                  A lot of people get better without medication. Of course, every time someone gets sick with a cold or flue most of the time they recover. It's when something is seriously wrong one needs to het help. If one is in a car crash do they to home and wait or do they get help? Did you say something about small pox? Really?

                  You're out there and loving every minute of it, but please don't influence people to NOT look for help when they need it. People die. Young people die. This kid died and didn't need to. I would have died if my parents hadn't brought me to the hospital when I was 13. My mom would have died at age 40 of an aneurism if I hadn't brought her to the hospital.

                  Sure it doesn't really matter in the long run, but while we are alive we should make an effort to stay that way and we should not die of a simple infection because we don't take an antibiotic.

                  1. jacharless profile image80
                    jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Essentially, you are one in what, 6.5 billion. Very low number, in comparison to the monstrosity of medical treatments over the las say 6000 years, but more importantly the last 100 years.True. And more accurately, do not get sick, to begin with, from the lack of taking medicine or praying woo-woo-la-la.My earlier statement stands. There was a cure for smallpox in the 1600's, yet millions were infected and died by vaccination and its side effects. And, again, my statement stands regarding typical beliefs of natural occurrence. If nature designed it for a person to die, should this be the case {the truth} then those applying medicine or other are in violation of natural selection or the higher plane of existence. As for unnatural sicknesses, like car crashes, etc, these things are the direct result of human design and negligence. My vote is to needle the car maker, the drunk driver and the lot of them, by their own feeble laws. Would certainly make others think beforehand, yes?
                    I have not suggested anyone not use or use technology//medicine or prayer by their respective g/gods or beliefs. I am merely expressing a neutral position.Note the bold. This is precisely what I expressed earlier. If natural selection or creationism applies, then guess what, both sides are in violation of nature. X people should have died. But you make a valid point by stating clearly why I see both sides as very religious and not altogether incorrect, just skewed in their approach. It is a natural desire in humans to live and not die. Therefore, there is something they are missing in the equation. A missing link that does not include natural selection nor the mansion in the sky. And if these are the only reasonable options, then medicine and prayer should both be held accountable for their negligence even if one -just one- person dies. In short by their own laws, all parties involved should be lethally injected if one single person dies at the hand of their methods. Hey, not my rules by any means.

                    James.

        2. chefsref profile image91
          chefsrefposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think you are conflating unrelated issues. One group is attempting to resolve an issue with the best available information while the other is doing little more than hoping for the best.
          I live in Florida and if a hurricane is coming I'll be praying on my way out of town. These parents would be praying while they have a picnic.
          Anyhow, I agree the medical, pharmaceutical and insurance industries have all been given a free ride, I just don't see it as relevant.
          PS, retired and sleeping late

  4. joytruthlove profile image60
    joytruthloveposted 4 years ago

    I do believe prayer has power, but to rely on it alone is questionable in the case of illness.  Use prayer in conjuction with medicine and take the physicians word with a grain of salt. Physicians are helpful and can heal, but they are human nontheless.  And prayer has a power all it's own....sometimes it heals in ways we don't consider healing.... Most people would not consider it healing if someone died  after a long illness even though countless prayers were said, but death is freedom from the pain, immobility, and limitations they were subjected to when living..Now they are free...and not bound by pain..etc. that is healing.  Healing can be spiritual, as well as physical.  As far as the boy is concerned, I htink they were neglectful and should have sought medical care....as in the word of God, many things are not to be interpreted literally....and God is more concerned with the spirit...which is eternal..than the body which is material and temporary...so when he says to pray for the sick it could very well be the spiritually sick....not the physically sick...

  5. peeples profile image89
    peeplesposted 4 years ago

    Power of prayer is a joke! Starving people, homeless, children being abused. rape, murder, none of it would happen if prayer worked or if there really was an all powerful being watching over us.

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      Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God isn't guilty. Why do children die? Because we have free will, people choose to kill or not. And God can't do anything for those children whatever is the problem, because who brought them to this earth was their parents not Jesus. So the parents are the ones you should talk with, it's their responsability. Again: free will. If it was Jesus who decided our world wouldn't be like this, but he can't, why: free will. Our society is like it is because of?: free will. Yes, again and again and again: free will. Only people who really put their lifes in Jesus hands, they success, truly live. Yes, i also do believe that praywers have power.

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        Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        oh and, if people start to pray to God, really just talk to Him with sincerity, your life will get better. And one thing, how the hell you expect to see your life get better if you just pray to God? Yes, there's still the fact that you didn't stop lying, being negative, steeling and other things that don't enjoy God. Think on that.

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        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So according to you good Christians never lose a baby to death, because they are with Jesus and prayer with Jesus is the only way.

        Well guess what child cancer cares not who you pray to. All you get by spreading these lies is guilt when something bad happens because you make other feel they have done something wrong.

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          Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          it's not just praying. Praying is easy. One thing you should know is that God isn't religion, He is Faith. So people who used their faith, an rational and intelligent faith, based on Him, on his promises, saw the results. Lots of people that use their faith to be cured, to be prosper... Yes, cancer can happen to anyone, but cancer is not 'bigger' than Jesus. I mean, I had a stone in my breast and it disappeared because of my faith. It's not some religion act, crying, blablabla. You have to be sure. Or you are God are you aren't and that's it. I can assure based on what He has done for me and from what i saw and see, He is God. Not everyone uses their faith, that's one of the problems. You don't believe in Him, do you? I can't explain you more... go to the universal church of the kingdom of God, and a pastor will explain you. It's all that i can say. Stay nice. Peace

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            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I am glad you got better, but that doesn't prove payer works. You're suggesting if we all had faith as you do cancer would disappear and we would have no need for doctors. That didn't work in the middle ages so you are just spreading lies. That old thing where if your sic it's your own fault only causes guilt, and eventually the guilt will come full circle.

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              Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              i have no guilt. you're just trying to make excuses. faith didn't work for some because they didn't knew how to use it, how to exercise it... Men, i'm not spreading lies. i tell, go to the church's web and you'll see the testimonies.  Done talking with, don't understand it, bad for you, normal for me. You're not the only skeptical in the world, but still God bless you and don't forget to google it. the universal church of the kingdom of god. check it out, and you'll see what i'm talking about. ... Jeez this was tiring..

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                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So you claim people of your church are immune to disease? Tell me what happens when one gets ill, do you tell them their faith is not strong enough? That causes guilt.

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                  Kena Bladelposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  no, just go and see. our faith is based on Dog... men, please can i go now? i don't want to ignore you, let's stop this argument. i just something you can just understand, you have to see it. Of course not everyone of our church is healthy... only some get it, others don't, OK? Goodbye now, really goodbye.

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                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Not everyone is healthy because the sic are doing something wrong? Sad.

                    Bye and thanks.

                  2. peeples profile image89
                    peeplesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Kena, let me ask you this. If free will is the excuse for children dying, then what about children who die from natural causes? Do they die because their parent's didn't pray hard enough? Or what about the child who is beat, are they beat because they don't pray enough? I can understand the possibility of adults suffering based on their own free will (choice) but how do you excuse the fact that if your God is real he ignores children not capable of living up to his expectations?

 
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