I thought it interesting that another thread tries, in desperation to "prove" the opposite.
http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-tr … l-evidence
Here's a site with some FACTS, that show the Bible to be quite accurate, in spite of critics, heclers and antagonists, (of which there are plenty on this forum).
Let the attacks begin!
In the heart of your hearts, if you find that reliable, then good so! Who is the ultimate arbiter of your life and the choices you make? You!
Then why do you need to bring the same question again and again? Is there a doubt somewhere hiding in secrecy?
I don't bring questions for my sake, but for those who may need answers.
This is why your religion causes so many fights. You cannot keep it to yourself - you arrogantly imagine you have answers for every one else.
You don't have any questions do you aka? You think you have all the answers.
And the answer is always "Majik!"
Errr Mark, it was YOU that started this with your other forum topic, all AKA has done is reversed the question.
This one YOU started, and actually we believers left your gaggle of friends to have a good chuckle mostly alone, and without any accusations.
Why resort to your old offensive self?
I thought you said you won't bother coming to my thread!
Then you get upset when I call you out as being dishonest.
Did you at least check out my link?
I guess not. Why bother? Your mind is also made up. You have all the answers YOU are satisfied with. And you don't mind spreading your POV, so why deride me about it?
Actually AKA there was no link on my page, maybe post it again?
The format is name of link and check it in preview to see it is showing.
Not sure what happened, but I reposted the link.
Here it is again for you > > http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-tr … l-evidence
Hey Evolution Guy! Nice watching you in action! Good show bro. Keep going until the viper takes you in. Good luck preaching :-)
Edit: Sorry Mark Knowles, I had mistaken you for Evolution Guy, the hubber long gone. Your lingo and tempo are identical. As if you both are the same person. My bad!
Back with the same old lie, huh, Mark?
Religion doesn't start fights. Ego starts fights. And it looks as though you're fairly bristling with ego, strapping for a fight.
Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not interested in fighting.
Got too much love for you.
I have to disagree with you on religion not starting any fights. Religion is what starts all the fights about the Bible. Christianity, on the other hand is the real truth of the Bible - Christ-centered. Has nothing to do with religion. I do agree with ego starting fights. After all, Satan had the biggest ego of all and look what he started. I do understand your comment to Mark, though and I'm not interested in fighting either - I'm a Christian and I try hard to love everyone like I"m suppose to - even in these forums! lol
If you loved me - you would not speak to me in that fashion. So - I don't believe you - as you are one of the most egotistical people I have come across.
But - you are almost correct - it is people who believe in the religion of ego that you believe in (I am saved, you are lost; I can do miracles, you are just denying the truth that I am trying to share with you) that cause the fights. At the root of this arrogant attitude you display is an irrational belief in majik.
Show me you love me. Go on - because I don't get a sense of love from you. All I get is arrogant self righteousness and a desire to be "right."
This line applies to you just as much.
You speak as though YOU are ABSOLUTELY right, and every believer is wrong.
Can you see that?
Does your sense of reason and logic admit that?
Why are you still in my thread?
I've asked you three times now.
You said "why would I bother"?
Can you not see the dishonesty in this fact?
Ah - see - I am not claiming to be selfless and "loving." I am just trying to get you to see reason to stop the constant conflicts. See how that is different?
Sorry - some one addressed me personally. I know the Truth upsets you so I will leave now - unless I am spoken to personally as you have just done.
You seem to be the only one that raises the issue of conflicts.
I'd be very happy to chat, but, unfortunately, you run out of steam, and repeat this same line time after time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time !
Do you see how monotonous that is?
No, I guess not.
If you did, you might stop.
Then again, maybe you want it that way.
Thanks for inviting me back aka.
Yes - I raise the issue of conflicts. I only mention it every time you make a self righteous pronouncement time after time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time !
See how that works aka?
I have been looking through your thread - weird - all I found was arguments and preaching of "holier than thou," type behavior.
Is that what you mean when you say the bible is reliable?
Chat? Oh you mean preach at me and argue that I am denying the truth when I say you are talking nonsense? Because that seems to be the sort of chat you are looking for. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
You show me "proof" such as "life" I say - "that is just life," you accuse me of working for an invisible bad guy.
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
Is all I can say, because it's all that last comment deserves.
Don't get me wrong aka - I know the Truth must hurt. I don't blame you for never addressing this point. It must be a bitter pill to swallow every time you start attacking Islam and realize you are spreading hate and conflict instead of love. Denial is a powerful tool in the religionists' toolbox. As the founder of your irrational belief system once said:
"Reason is the enemy of faith."
Indeed it is, IF it keeps your from relationship wit God.
No - it must. Reason will not allow for "relationships," with invisible, non-existent, majikal super beings. Odd - you need to change the words of the founder of your religion to mean something other than what was actually said. I see no mention of "IF" in the first statement - that seems t have been added by you aka. How does that work?
Your definitions of reason and love throw me off Mark.
What definitions were they? Fire away - I am happy to educate you. A lot of believers have trouble understanding the meaning of these words - so you are not alone.
It was not me that said "Reason is the enemy of faith," - it was the founder of the religion you claim to follow. I think he was using it the same way I do.
The person you are quoting is NOT the founder of "my religion"!
The ACTUAL founder said, "repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand"!
Jesus Christ, In case you didn't know that.
Oh, but he must speak to you in that fashion, and not because of love, but because of the twisted and maligned definition of love Christianity has created. They have diminished the significance of love to a non-emotion, to a status so irrelevant that it has lost all meaning. We can see this in how they consider their own families and friends as secondary and tertiary to their indoctrinated obedience of their gods.
Actually, you really hit the nail on the head there.
For a believer, the ultimate arbiter of your life and the choices you make should be Christ, and that comes through reading the bible, but for the secularist, then I guess what you say is true.
But that is the real definition of saved or unsaved:
Who runs your life? - when we answer that question, we know the truth about ourselves, and our spiritual condition.
This looks the same as the other page...More opinions based in what the author considers "facts".
In my Opinion...Neither side has proven their claims...But of course that is only my opinion...
Nope...... It's Mine also!
But then..... we ARE both Scorpios
...and you are (Thank God) both entitled to hold it!
I will go with the other 2.3 billion believers!
Now....... I'm not so sure I know what you mean by ... 'Hold It' ???
I would say, that if it was complete fact...there would be 2.3 billion knowers...not believers...and if was complete fact...then there would be almost 8 billion knowers...and not just 1/3 of the population.
Well there are options to believe in, and I guess we all form our own opinion on what is our personal 'known to be true', which is sensible, because our eternal destiny depends on what we believe and personally KNOW to be true, being correct.
If anybody has any doubts, best start examining all the evidence again because it's just too important to let go.
We all need to establish whether that which we stake our destiny on is fact and truth or not.
Many believe that ALL roads lead to God, and I like that opinion, would love it to be true.
Christ stated that ONLY He led to God.
That is what we accept or deny, if we deny it, then as long as we are 100% certain we are correct, no problem.
Likewise if we accept that as the truth, then we start living as we are commanded to live.
Live the truth, declare the truth and present it to others.
I would agree with your thought process.
I just don't think we have the answers...And until we do, I'll keep searching and asking questions.
This type of thinking has been around since the ancient philosophers and will probably be around long after we are gone. We just don't know if there is an eternal existance or not. A good portion of people conduct themselves for if there is...I wonder however, if there is in fact an eternal existance, is it connected to God/s or if we are "good or bad"...or is it just energy that returns to the "pool" until future use...
I pondered that for a long while, before I came to know Christ, it seemed the most likely solution, and I had (have) no problem with that, as being part of the 'pool' would either be equally spectacular if aware of the inclusion, or blissfully ignorant is not aware.
But of course, once I met with Christ, and the Holy Spirit, the concept of eternal existence with personality came to the fore.
I am satisfied in either case, indeed, in any case!
Ah, so the archaeological facts of people and places are merely the webmasters "opinions" not actual FACTS?
Your point is seriously, well, umm, subjective, to say the least.
But, hey, thanks for reading!
It only proves that there is some real included with the story. Same as every other book. Some real places or people are used to give substance...Doesn't mean the story contained in the book is real...If it does, do you think all Steven King books are factual...or any other author for that matter?
And I do believe that I stated quite clearly, that my comment was MY OPINION...Which of course does mean it would be subjective...from my point of view...And no different that your opinions or views...Subjective based on how you see things.
There are only empty claims on the site, I saw no evidence.
It all boils down to faith - faith in the Savior, or not. If you believe in Christ, then you believe in His Word and His Word is truth and is the Bible. Period.
There you go - an honest religionist. Nothing to do with facts or proof. Just faith. Period.
Don't let facts get in your way guys.
Obviously facts don't get in your way!
You ask for facts.
We give you facts.
You ignore facts.
You regurgitate the same fantasies.
And round the mountain we all go again.
Tell me again. Why did you come to my thread after saying you would not be bothered?
The word dishonest comes to mind.
Not applicable to you, (OF COURSE)!
I thought you said you were "not a simple man"??
F o l l o w t h e l i n k.(I typed it slowly, so you don't miss what I'm s a y i n g !) Are you still on my thread?
Maybe you truly ARE seeking truth!
I always look for truth. You don't have it. I understand why you hide your true identity though.
LAWL! How brave you are.
As if my true identity would convince you, or make any difference.
Is this an attempt of the classic "shoot the messenger, so we don't have to deal with the message"?
Truth is truth, NO MATTER the messenger. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Plenty of other on hubpages use their real name, and you treat them with the same contempt you do me.
Happy little aka-dj
Odd. Most religious people do not use their real name.
Why are you still on my thread, again?
You never answered that question.
Oh, that's right, I asked for "attacks", and, of course, you cannot resist that.
How can you convince anyone that the Bible is real and truth when you can;t even spell Hecklers right? This is why so many fights are started, typos and spelling errors. Fix your own typos before fixing others. Ummm . . .
Now that you mention it,
I will try and be more careful. Thanks for the proof reading.
How have you been? Haven't seen you in the forums much, or is it just me, not being around to see?
Didn't someone just start a thread a few days ago saying it had been proven worthless? You guys need to get together, make up your minds one way or the other, and then share your conclusions. You can't both be right at this point.
@emile both can be right at same time too...if bible is written is code language...proof of 6 days , god made human as in current forms are zero....proof of step by step process are far more than god made human in current form...we have largely four theories...a) god made human in present form- proof zero b)evolution backed by fossil evidence -now this theory is also questioned but it has more evidence than zero evidence of point a ...c) god started evolution process- theory becoming popular in spritiual spectrum d) humans where made by alien- same as point a - no proof...
Or we could all believe that we were not created in our current form (in fact most human remains are very large). I think at this point in the life of Earth it may be more important to get along, then start pesky fights over our own opinions of "something more".
Very perceptive of you.
I recon it is pretty important people get it right.
Their eternal destiny is at stake.
All religion is nonsense, but Christianity is a special brand of BS. Not only does it purport to be the "one true religion", not only does it try and impose it's archaic, puritanical values on others, but it does all of it in the face of overwhelming evidence that the people involved in it's creation made the whole thing up.
Going around preaching about being a "good Christian" (an oxymoronical term if ever there was one) is the same as the people who get obsessed with Star Wars and run around claiming to be a Jedi.
@praetor why?...quran is perfect word of god...dont u know the challenge?...produce better verse than one in quran...none has been able to do that till today...bible is corrupted...quran in perfect...
Really? You're going to make an argument for religion and you're using Islam as your example? The quran is one of the most ignorant, hate-filled, worthless pieces of literature ever to have been committed to paper, and the only purpose it serves, is as an example of how not to build a system of faith.
At least Christians came up with the New Testament to contradict all of the backwards ass thinking of the Old Testament, you guys and your "perfect word of god" are still stuck in the dark ages. You want a verse that's "better than one in the quran"? Here you go:
"Black and Blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and Down
And in the end it's only round and round and round
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside"
Pink Floyd - 1 Islam - 0
@praetor allah knows better...allah is merciful...he would forgive you...submit to allah and find heaven...
Of course your bullshit here about Islam would be a little more convincing if you weren't busy trying to convert some guy to Christianity on this thread: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/103603? … ost2210953
Busted troll has been busted.
i got revelation that jesus was mere prophet... on serious notes was just trying to have bit of fun...i am atheist...i was trying to act as religious person and see how do i perform...
He had me fooled!
Well done pisean282311!
If the Qur'an is perfect could you explain to me why it says to turn to the Bible, and the people of the book (the Bible and Jews, and Christians) for knowledge when you say that the Bible is incorrect? I am just curious how you rationlize this in accordance with the Qur'an.
So we won't be seeing you at house group this week I guess!
Nor in eternity it seems!
u wont be seeing anyone in heaven because unless u submit to allah and accept quran , heaven wont be there for u...even Prophet Isha(jesus) wanted every one to submit to allah...
Care to show WHERE Christ said that?
I have no argument with Muslims, I live in a Muslim country and my Muslim friends are truly sincere in loving their god.
But any comparison of the Jewish scriptures and the Christian scriptures against the Muslim scripture will show anybody that they have different authors.
The Q'uran's author was a different writer from the author of the other two books.
If you read all of them, with an open mind, you would see the differences that confirm that.
Even more relevant, if you asked sincerely for Christ to reveal Himself to you, He will, via the Holy Spirit.
Many Muslims have experiences of this, but need to stay silent due to your apostasy laws, and Christ does not expect us to deliberately declare faith when it will guarantee death, but they hold the truth in their hearts, and like the 700 Rabbi's in Israel who also know Christ, will step forward when the time is right, for at that time their fellow Muslims and Jews will need to be shown the way.
Christ will return soon it seems likely, and when He does, He will be coming for those who can say they believed on who He is, and obeyed His commands.
You know Christ as a prophet, believers know Him as their God, through personal contact, you also can know Him, if you sincerely ask Him to reveal Himself to you.
If the NFL doesn't get rid of these terrible replacement officials, I may start to consider a Church group
It's called the "The Law of Conservation of Energy", I'll be just fine.
Thank you for responding to the challenge.
You have indeed answered to call to "let the attacks begin", and have won the prize.
All religion is based on pure faith... Believe what you want, I think I boils down to what you practice in real life not just what you preach.
The Bible is like the National Enquirer: it gives some evidence but it is muddled between superstition, fairy tales and fiction.
Perhaps if Christians spent more time proving our religion changes lives for the better, people would actually have the desire to listen to our claims. Instead we try to prove it with facts that will be proven "false" or "true" later, just like many other scientific things, like no cure for a hangover. (Proven now: bacon sandwich. That's awesome) People listen to those who have substance, and right now, Christianity is very divided, and not in the good, five-different-slices-on-the-same-pizza type of way. I believe the Bible is 100 percent reliable, and it HAS been proven by facts, but that isn't the real issue here. The issue is that Christianity preaches love and hurts so many--not advocating complete tolerance; there are always consequences--but our history has shown us destroying countless lives, even in the present day. No one could possibly believe a doctor is good at his job when 80% of his patients die. The Church itself must be addressed and stand up and offer an explanation on why things happened this way, and what WE are going to do to fix it. Because otherwise, we will always be trying to be proven false, because people don't WANT to believe in it.
Though all of the statements in this link may be "FACTS" they only really prove that the Bible was written by people. I know that sounds stupid but for example, the fact that the Bible mentions certain places only actually means that the people who wrote the bible knew where those places were and used them in their stories. It does not strengthen the validity of any of the stories about Jesus or any other miracle or holy reference.
Miracles happen. But apparently not when skeptics are looking.
Jesus noticed that about the skeptics of his time. They could look right at a miracle, but not see it.
Or do believers try too hard to squeeze a miracle out of a simple coincidence?
Not sure what you mean, exactly.
Coincidence? What's that?
I know from my own experience, and have subsequently found others also having similar. When I was first saved, (born again), I looked back on my life previous to the event, and I could name many "coincidences" where the hand of God was on my life, only I didn't recognize it as such.
But, once my eyes were opened, it was SSOOO obviously the work of God.
Perhaps you need to see these "coincidences" in your own life as the hand of God working FOR you, without you giving Him credit for it. (I don't know, just saying!).
For sure. You are right, except for a couple of examples that you may have overlooked.
If you go through their list, you will find a reference to the Hittites.
These were not known about by historians until recent times, therefore, it was ridiculed as mere fabrications. But, the Bible account was indeed accurate.
Therefore, if it's credible about every detail we HAVE verified, why not ascribe the same level of credibility to those which we have NOT YET verified?
Good forum, @aka-dj.
In my own research, I've found that there is a great deal of hidden wisdom in the Bible.
Too many Christians want it easy and insist on reading the Bible literally. But a literal interpretation is a lazy one. Adherence to such literalness is also arrogance.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV).
Everything in the Bible points to humility as the key. The arrogance of Adam and Eve caused the problem in the first place. And Jesus said that the meek will inherit the earth.
If humility is so important, and if hiding wisdom in the Bible elicits the very thing that is important -- humility under God -- then you can be assured that a great deal of wisdom has been hidden therein.
Take for instance the biblical timeline. Science has proven it to be wrong, when you take things too literally. Only ego or arrogance would have us bristle with ego at the idea that the Bible is wrong. But look at the fallacy in that. I didn't say that the Bible is wrong. Only the interpretation. Archbishop Ussher did a remarkable feat of scholarship in 1650 when he published his timeline. So much of his work was groundbreaking and accurate. But everything before about 1400 BC was wrong.
Take his date for Noah's Flood -- 2348 BC. There were too many people on Earth at that date. Three years after this date, Egypt's sixth dynasty started. Thirteen years after this date, Sargon the Great conquered Sumer.
But I discovered a code in Genesis which reveals a timeline compatible with those of science and archaeology. And it reveals the identity of the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6. The Bible proves itself again.
In June 2010, I started Bible Code research of the Old Testament (Christian). On July 4, 2010, I got instructions from God from the Bible Code to do as the LORD asked, to change laws on psychiatry forced medicating. The hospital tried to destroy me using the Bible Code, but the author of the Bible Code, LORD Jesus, ultimately freed me, but I had to obey the LORD's codewords given to me from the Book of Leviticus with unlock code '14'. The LORD gave me keywords to memorize, and in prayer asked me after about 8 weeks of detainment, to fast from 170 pounds down to 118 pounds after two weeks of exercising, to try to do my mission. I thought my mission was to save my wife from medical experimentation and forced weight loss surgery, but it was discovered in 2011 that my wife was not imprisoned for helping me, but rather wanting me to be more compliant to the medical industrial complex, and take toxic medications. Thus, the true purpose of the Old Testament is to expose humanities confusion, including with the inquisition and the Pope killing innocent people throughout history, for religious goals of control of people. The realists attack religion, rightfully, because all religions have strong elements of corruption of God's will, towards the goal of profits called tithing and other so-called 501(c)3 donations that secretly benefit the governments of the world, the Oligarchy, and the false prophet (The Pope).
Therefore, the Bible's Old Testament was written by God to be pretty gibberish that performs in software for Bible Code, to reveal codes of God's will and mind. I mean gibberish because the Bible Old Testament (Christian) was written entirely by God to deceive evil authorities, so His Bible Code could be unsealed starting in 2012 by the masses, through 2099. God also wants to expose humanities confusion, done through the plain text of the Christian Bible.
It has been prophecised that the churches would become lukewarm. The churches have become aligned with Satan, towards suppressing dissent and silencing discussion of politics. God says He is angry at churches of all religions, and that he values the atheists and agnostics being skeptical.
We need atheists and agnostics or the prophets would be without a job. I know, because I am a prophet of the LORD Jesus, and I would have no assignment if the world is not so evil and full of unbelievers. But the evil is not necessarily in the atheists or agnostics; the evil in those who seize the rights of others to make mistakes and live their lives with freedom.
Therefore, the liberty to make errors for oneself and live a life consistent as one believes is good and of God. I know because God told me. I talk with God through the Bible Code messages and through prayer. So, you might wonder, what is the role of churches, then?
Churches need to be reformed to comply with the law of God instead the law of man. The nonprofit 501(c)3 status is the law of man. The laws of God say no killing, rape, theft or destruction of property, nor unjustified imprisonment. As they are now, religious authorities serve the needs of the richest 500 Americans, not the majority or the poor.
The biggest censors of the truth are the churches, second are the schools, third is the media. Many atheists and agnostics see this, and are disgusted by religion. God hates religion more than he hates anything else, when the religions are used to defile His kingdom and the people's of the world. Religion is a weapon, used against all people except the world's richest 1,300 people, to control and suppress knowledge and destroy understanding.
Religion is mankind's favorite means of practicing sin. God requires all people look at this truth in the Bible Code, using any brand of software for this purpose. Ultimately, religion needs to end, and wisdom and enlightenment needs to start, using the Christian Old Testament Bible Codes.
Religion is pro-war as advocated by Satan. Religion is pro-control as advanced by Satan. Religion is pro-death as put forth by the media, churches and authorities. The citations and concerns of atheists and agnostic against religion is often well-founded, legitimate and valid; we need an end to religious traditions that are rooted in habit and foolish behaviors, and remake our world as God describes in the Old Testament Bible Code, of which the 304,805 letters expand into over 6 gigabytes of prophecy.
I am a Christian Prophet, I speak the truth and welcome this post be debated and evaluated by both encampments: The pro-religion side and the pro-reason side. The truth will set you free.
I have to be honest, if there really is a God then the bible actually portrays him/her/it as ultimately being quite evil and sadistic - should we really worship someone capable of such evil?
Why is the Bible reliable?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic … rigin.html
Evidence and proof beyond just a copy you buy in your local book store.
The plain text of the Old Testament Christian Bible was written for the first 2,800 years, to become stale at 2012, the year computers have become powerful enough to unseal the Bible Code in appreciable volume. The proof God wrote the Old Testament is in the fact that the Bible Code of the 304,805 characters will perform and produce truth of prophecies of the LORD God, when unsealed. If men wrote the Bible, and not God, then the Bible Code would not produce intelligent, truthful statements about past, present and future events along the time line. Everything in the Old Testament, being written by God, is or was or will be true, the question is, and should be, did the prophecy happen, and if so, will it repeat. History tends to be cyclic, as Wil Durant points out in his epic work, The Story of Civilization. If you have any question about the identity of the Old Testament, check out the Bible Codes for yourself using any one of major brands of software for this purpose, and read books by Michael Dorsnin, such as his Bible Code I, II, and III books. The new testament, however, was written mostly in Greek by men who loved God, but not by God himself. As such, the New Testament won't produce hidden prophecies like the Old Testament's 304,805 characters in Hebrew will do. I have personally discovered that some prophecies in the Old Testament Bible Code reinforce the teachings of the New Testament, and some are neutral with respect to the New Testament. If in doubt, I would favor the truth of the world of God, over the word of man inspired by God. The Old Testament is completely, 100% by God, all letters and all wordings, in the original Hebrew form. The English translations of the Bible Old Testament are generally highly corrupted, and often disappoint, censor and misrepresent God. I know, because God told me. King James was a deceitful person. John Wycliff was, however, a very honorable man, and was murdered by being burnt at the steak for speaking the truth. The Mormons are a confused group, but since they did not corrupt EVERY copy of the Hebrew Bible Old Testament, they are an annoyance to God but not intrinsically evil. Because all religions of the world try to do good, and appease dissent, they do some benefit and some harm to God's plan and Kingdom. The best religion is one rooted in the study of the Old Testament as the only truth, and to question the New Testament except when the Old Testament Bible Code directly affirms it. The Bible Code was written specifically by God to meet the needs of humanity from the year 2012 through 2099, according to my prayers, and affirmed by my research using Bible Code software on three commercial products for searching the Bible Code.
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Yes He does, there is no question that God done have the answer for. Ask one?
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