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Jesus or paul who has had bigger impact on christianity...

  1. pisean282311 profile image58
    pisean282311posted 4 years ago

    Whom to you think has had bigger impact on christianity....critics of christianity say jesus has been used as concept by early christians but paul provided the necessary thrust and structure...your comments?

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      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Seems to me that if by name only, Christ has probably had more impact.  Christianity is based on the works that Christ did.  The words he spoke and the resasons that he came are the reasons that Christianity exists. Paul was the messenger of Jesus.  He had quite a few prominent messages; but Christ is the reason for Christianity.

      1. bluebird profile image60
        bluebirdposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        CHRIST IS OUR SAVIOR. He is the one who lived for us and died for us.  "Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed." Isa 45:24
        "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Romans 14:11.
        SUMMARY: Paul was a great man because He delivered God's message. Christ is Savior and Lord forever, He is the Word of God and our Great Creator and Lord.

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yesss!!! You lost me at Jesus was creator though. He is the savior, the word, and lord. The father is the creator. The Father is above Jesus, the same in spirit/mind. They agree seamlessly smile

          1. bluebird profile image60
            bluebirdposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            John 1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made that was made.
            Jesus is the Word of God. God the Father created all things through Jesus Christ: "...and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in in God who created all things through Jesus Christ - Ephesians 3:9
            They are in complete harmony and agreement and very much agree seamlessly.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Self righteous drivel. lol

              What does this actually mean?

            2. jacharless profile image79
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Um, you left out a   h  u  g  e  part of John I.

              "[He] was in the beginning [Himself] that all things were made//created through [Him] that no thing was fashioned is without [Him]. In [Him] is Life and life is the light in man."

              Creation is the ruach//word//breath of life. Gen 1:1 for reference.

              "Life was the light in man". What is that light? The human spirit which is the word//ruach//ohm, pneuma//breath. "And pneuma became flesh and dwelled among us". The spirit-human became flesh -as before in Genesis- which is why Moshiach is called the 2nd Adam//2nd Man. "And breathed into man the Breath of Life  {word//ruach//ohm//pneuma}. Same life described in Genesis is reiterated in John1.
              John is describing this from a dual point of view, not a singular one.

              You are the word of Creator -in fact, everything is. Don't think so? Hmm, odd because even Jesus said you were. So did Moshe, Elijah and many others.

              James.

          2. info121 profile image61
            info121posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            This is an easy one. Jesus Christ is the reason for christianity. He lead the disciples and they followed. Therefore there is no doubt who had the main influence here. Paul has contributed greatly but JESUS is the name that Christians call upon...

    2. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I would express my opinion this way .... There is much that can be added to this statement, but I don't think that this can honestly be argued against.

      The Church that Constantine built  chose to use the teachings of Paul to establish the direction in which Christianity would grow.

      I know that Paul professes that he encountered Jesus on the road to Domascas.
      I do not recall;  if any of the twelve desciples ever mentioned Paul in their wrightings?

      I've often wondered why the church chose Pauls wrightings and not one of the 12 desciples.
      I think Pauls wrightings were chosen because him being a Roman, his wrightings conformed to Roman society better than all of the others.

      For this reason, I might say that Paul had a greater impact on what Christianity is today than Jesus did.   What would the NT be like if 3/4 of it was not filled with Paul's teachings;  BUT those of Matthew Mark, luke and John.  I would imagine that they wrote much more than what was included in the canon.   ???

      1. pisean282311 profile image58
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        u made some really great points...

    3. Paul K Francis profile image83
      Paul K Francisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Some scholars believe that the following Jesus had during his lifetime was based on what he said and did, his healings and teachings, and this following dissapated at his death. A new following began as Paul and others preached the good news of who Jesus was and is - the Christ, and what God has done for them by way of the resurrection.

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      zampanoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      My dear fellow.
      Why do you ask questions like that ?
      Is there a way that the answer to that question would change our lives ?
      What do we care if Jesus was used as an image and Paul wrote one epistle or two?
      How will that affect the ozone layer ?
      I can understand that rethorical games like these can help exercise our minds, sort of keeping Altzeimer away for a while.
      Let's not forget something very important :
      Here and now boys!
      and the rest is only history.
      I may be wrong, but I'm obsessed by the present and sometimes I dare imagine the future.
      and anyway, the answer to you question is in the question itself. Christianity.

      1. Paul K Francis profile image83
        Paul K Francisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, the here and now! I think that is part of Paul's message. Or that may be just a part of this Paul's imagination. Have a great day.

    5. jacharless profile image79
      jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Without Moshiach there would have been no S//Paul an apostle.
      And without mass marketing since the 14th century, there would be no Christianity.
      So, neither Moshiach nor S//Paul has had a bigger impact on Christianity.
      Marketing has had the most impact.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Slyly changing the question, so as to add your fancy words smile

        1. jacharless profile image79
          jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My Reply:

          Hmm, looks like it was answered perfectly regarding both men -and the summary of impact itself. Yes, nothing speaks sly like directness and honesty.

          "Nine, corner pocket. Game over." Good to see you, as always, Miss Genaea.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hiiii! smile Since the game is "over" there is a winner. Since you made your shot, do you feel that the winner is you? No S//Paul the apostle without Jesus? Hmmm. Where was Jesus when Paul was converted? Where was Paul, when God put his plan together? Paul was a vessel, first con; and then pro. Many came before and many have come since. Jesus is the total reason for Christianity. He is the reason we have a chance at all. However, it depends on your relationship with the father. I guess some believe that their own methods are sufficient for knowing the truth. I just go with observations from the bible (the truest truth I know). Yes, I know how you feel about that.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Good one. "truest truth" smile

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Why THANKYOU!!! smile

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No problem, I see it as potentially making the top ten list of silliest contradictions I've read on these forums.

                  And the competition is fierce. smile

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    See? You have the right to believe as you wish smile

            2. jacharless profile image79
              jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There's a good scientist: observation without practical experience.
              The truest truth known to Einstein was no different than the truest truth known to Constantine, Saul, Kahlil Gibran, Marty McFly, Alice of Wonderland, Aimee Semple McPherson, John G Lake, William Graham, Smith Wigglesworth, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Mother Theresa -even Solomon Grundy and Capt James T Kirk... Yup, the pendulum of Theos. One side is mental masturbation of sensation, the other side mental masturbation of equation. No experience, no practical application, of the observance, but just enough gobble-goop, woo-woo-la-la, ooh-ahh, woo-hoo, to keep the ego//ha-satan empowered. Keep observing! Someone has to, right? Seems to be the same Road as S//Paul. And, hey, I will not stand in your Way, that is a sure promise. smile

              James.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                My reply is total confusion regarding your post, as usual smile When you say, "no practical experience" you leave the impression that the words in the bible don't "work" when put to use. That is absolutely false. I know that you know better than that. I know you don't worry about the woo-la-la, but that does not negate the truth. To turn away AFTER having experienced, causes some solomonity. The bible contains wording that lives. It has crossed all barriers and changes lives daily. This life is hard though. I mean, who wants to be called an idiot for believing fairy tales? wink  But the practical rewards are immense. Love, joy, peace, lonsuffering, gentleness, etc. walking around in darkness??? Me??? Nope smile my path is well lit.  I see what I need to see. My "answers" come from God. He is not "holding in his pocket" the secrets of life. Each one of us has a different secret. It is whispered by the same entity. But there is a method to the madness. He leaves none of us w/o direction. But we must follow the path to him. He says what the path is. Knowing him personally is paramount. He whispers to all of his children. Jew, Gentile, Catholic, Baptist, Muslim...etc.  All of his children behave, or long to behave as Jesus.  This info is in the bible. I'm not sure where ELSE it is, but he offers to ALL so I know there is no bible ONLY clause. God is creative. He knows who needs what.
                You can't get more practical than that.
                9ball WHAT??? smile

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Many of those children can only 'long to behave as Jesus' just long enough to get to them to the next morsel of food.

                  That info isn't in the Bible.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well said.

                2. jacharless profile image79
                  jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Everything you said afteris mental masturbation and not a lick of practical experience -nor ability to apply practical experience methods to that word salad. So, there it is simplified for you.
                  Now, back to the only part that made sense.
                  As a former bible quoter and teacher, will tell you emphatically -and not just myself but countless [committed//zealous] believers and former believers {note I am neither} can testify- that no, the words in the bible do not work when put into use. Unless, of course you care to put them to the test, as the good book says to do, yes? Here is the first test to prove//disprove "the words in the bible work when put to use":
                  In all translations -Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew- the word: die means to stop breathing; to no longer having the breathe of life; dead in body and mind; no longer among the living; in the grave; buried, rotted; dust; no longer existing; ended; perished, etc.

                  So, the test is simple: prove these words work either by quoting, memorizing, reciting them -else by practical application of the statement.

                  James.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Spiritual death is of the worst kind. Though I know that you have never considered that. You know that Jesus spoke/taught using parables. Never die, is a soul-phrase. The soul can die while you are speaking. From the mouth is life or death. Remember??? If you believe in Jesus, your soul is "alive" forever. The bible does promise eternal life; yes???
                    As for your second "practicality" sin-sick souls can be healed by just one touch (think spiritual here). Some souls are in "sick" stage, and not quite dead. Jesus was/is a MASTER at verbiage. And he knows just what he is talking about. He is ALWAYS right. You??? Well, you just are not "old" enough smile
                    Practical was Jesus' middle name. lol

    6. Bubba Jones 111 profile image60
      Bubba Jones 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Duh! The don't call it Paulianity, bonehead.

    7. pennyofheaven profile image81
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Neither, people and their perceptions make Christianity exist or not exist. So far it still exists.

    8. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Paul. Hands down. From observation, it seems that many christians pay more attention to what Paul preached than how Jesus acted.

  2. themadimadimadi profile image60
    themadimadimadiposted 4 years ago

    John. Lennon.

    1. austinhealy profile image84
      austinhealyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Beautifully said !

  3. 2besure profile image82
    2besureposted 4 years ago

    Of course it was Jesus who had the greatest impact on Christianity.  We are named from him...followers of Christ.  Also, if there were no Jesus, Paul would not have had the supernatural encounter with God that changed his life.  He was on the road looking for Christians to persecute!

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      @2besure jesus barely had much of following in his life time....paul is credited to be chief promoter of jesus outside palestine and specially to romans...without paul  would jesus be as well known as he is today?...no one knows ...may be,may be not....in end paul contributed heavily in spreading christianity....

      1. 2besure profile image82
        2besureposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, but Jesus was the author of Salvation!  His life, death and resurrection was the message.  If Jesus did not die and rise from the dead, Paul would have had no message and no following.  Remember your question was, "Whom to you think has had bigger impact on Christianity" not who wrote most of the Bible or had the most followers.

        1. pisean282311 profile image58
          pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          my question is still the same...yes without jesus what would have paul sold?...but without master sales man like paul , jesus might have gone horus way?....none can tell...though i got ur answer...according to u jesus's impact has been more than paul on christianity...

          1. 2besure profile image82
            2besureposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            pisean282311, you are right.  Paul would have nothing to promote without Jesus Christ.  Believe me, Paul was the instrument God used to get his message to the world.  Come on...we are talking about God!  If you believe the God, then you know he could have used any other person or means to spread His message.  He could have wrote his message in the sky, if he wanted to.

            1. pisean282311 profile image58
              pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              thats ur belief...we are not judging here about god or no god...we r discussing two historical figures namely jesus and paul...

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Unless Paul was lying about Jesus rising from the dead, which is a far more plausible conclusion considering people don't rise from the dead, unless you're a huge George Romero fan.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There were a few instances where more than one person witnessed one raised from the dead. Jesus had already proven that he had power over death. Just as the blindness of not realizing that Paul had a "product" that he "sold" before he sold Jesus. We may see or not see what we want.
            Downey Jr said it this way, "Just cuz it's a theme song, don't mean it aint true!" LOL

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But, we know that's a lie. Of course, you're free to present any evidence of zombism you wish to offer.l



              Yes, I understand there are fairy tales in the Bible.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                See? You may believe whatever you like. wink

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but you're confusing me with believers.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That would be to YOUR benefit smile I heard the category in which you prefer to be placed. No mistake about it.

  4. Paul Wingert profile image80
    Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago

    Paul had the biggest impact because he's the founding father of Christianity. Even though he never met Jesus, he's the spin doctor and promoter with a wild imagination..

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As I mentioned in an earlier post; I can't remember any of the desciples who's writtings were included in the bible ever mentioning Paul.   ???      If there are any, And I hope that there are, and I hope someone would bring them to my attention.    It just seems like he should have been confirmed by someone other than himself.

    2. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      @paul u would be knowing...after all u r named after him wink

  5. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Oh be sure! If God had written the message in the sky, with his own finger, there would still be quite a few sects who will find a way to doubt. That's just the way it is.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, no writing of messages in the sky by any gods with any fingers. That's just the way it is. We call it reality.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Reality it is smile Hey!!! You got one!!! Congrats smile

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    zampanoposted 4 years ago

    If it was not religion, it would be some other pretext.
    Man is just a sort of neanderthal with a "cultural varnish". The brain is still the same and so are it's bloody kicks.
    Well, of course I'm extrapolating but it should apply to a lot

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      @zampano u have a point...

  7. 0
    Emily Sparksposted 4 years ago

    Christ...........without Him there is no salvation..........Paul was just a faithful godly preacher.  Christ is the Son of God.

  8. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 4 years ago

    Jesus went to the Jewish nation to be accepted or rejected by them that he is messiah and that was Jesus mission. Jesus was never called to be a christian or anything other than messiah, the anointed of God come to redeem his people. All they had to do was accept him.

    Paul was sent to the Gentiles although Paul was a pharisee God will often put people in areas that they are unfamiliar with just to keep them humble i suppose, or get them into a state of teachableness.

    Which has the bigger impact on christianity. Chrisitianity is all about Jesus, who is God incarnate and the spirit of God shed abroad in the hearts of His followers.

    Jesus, hands down. Paul is a good instructor to the churches at that time and certainly we can learn from his letters, but its the spirit of Jesus that instructs christians.

  9. Michael-Milec profile image61
    Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

    The Lord Jesus  Anointed, never once mentioned " Christian" or Christianity .
    His first and opening statement for His coming  Is : " Blessed are those who know  their spiritual need ; the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN    I s  theirs  " (Matt. 5:3 )
    Also :" Blessed are you poor; the KINGDOM OF GOD  I s  yours ( Luke 6:20 )
    The Kingdom of God / the Kingdom of heaven interchangeably men's the same what Jesus, the Son of the Most High God came to establish .
    Christianity ( christianism ) as well as Church, ( churchianity, churchism ) came to life as a man-- made tradition developed gradually , when the "movement of the Kingdom" was abolished ; the Holy Spirit dependency denied ; supernatural of God replaced by natural of man; philosophical explanation came to the picture, thus establishing a tradition to which confusion and disharmony we are witnessing today.

  10. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    You might say that Jesus Christ is the foundation on which Christianity exists, whether he wanted a religion built upon it or not is another question entirely.
        You might say that the disciples stood the outer walls.
        You might say that Paul built all of the inner partition walls and the R.C.C.  (326 AD) built the second floor larger than the foundation.
        And each and every "Private" Interpretation that has been accepted or added to this foundation over the centuries are additional levels or stories (pun intended).   It appears as if "Religion" is a gigantic upside down pyramid balanced upon the tiny foundation which Jesus built.
       Just because we say, "In Jesus' name" at the end of a statement, doesn't make it so.
    Jesus is the point of origin.  Paul and the R.C.C. was the wind which blew religion in the direction that it went. 
    Was this the right direction?   I don’t know!    Only time will tell.

    1. pisean282311 profile image58
      pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      wow...wonderful observation

  11. Michael-Milec profile image61
    Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago

    ( who am I to approach you? ) just learning to walk the narrow road ...

    @ pennyofheaven : you've provided one of the best comprehensive answer ...

    @ info 121 : extensive and well satisfying, much to learn and to know...

    @ jerami :  much appretiated, comprehensive  expanding knowledge to the matter.

    My observation : the label itself (Christianity ) or the historical movement relevant mostly to human beings . The Divine is in the universe ,so is here. We are historical part of it, as those before and after us.
    The God. The Lord Jesus Anointed . The Holy Spirit, eternal .

    From here to eternity
    Something matters the most ,-
    - man, - human making the choice:
    ... " time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true ( genuine )  WORSHIPPERS  will worship the Father in spirit and in truth ( reality );
    for the Father  is seeking  just such people as these as His WORSHIPPERS .
    G o d   I s  a Spirit ( a spiritual Being [also] ) and those who worship Him must worship Him
    In spirit and in truth ( reality).

    John 4: 23-24 , Ampl.

  12. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    Well, I betcha that if Jesus said that my black mustang was red ?  When I look out the window at it,     I ain't goina be black any more.

 
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