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  1. 0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Since I identify as Christian, because I believe in Jesus as the savior, I speak of it often.
    I have found that in all my conversations with the most intelligent, and/or highly articulate, and some not so articulate; I am bombarded with many objections to my faith.
    I am accused of being indoctrinated; unable to think for myself; and my personal favorite, unintelligent.  I just wonder why??? If I am speaking things as I see them.  I am well within my right.
    Why is the name Jesus, such a sore area for so many?  The way I see it is this: If I am wrong, why must you try to convince me?  I am not the ultra pushy evangelizer who will visit you at your home uninvited, to spread the word o'God. 
    I am convinced of my position. Are you not convinced of yours?

    1. Paul K Francis profile image82
      Paul K Francisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What you say does not sound very unintelligent to me. Most people will, I think, respect your convictions. Don't  be angry at the ones who do not. Have a nice day.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Anger does not come into play. I have some type of patience that allows for the most ridiculous of statements smile Thank you for your comment, I just wonder why this subject usually ends with name-calling and disrespect. Where does the "anger" come from? The name Jesus really ruffles feathers. I guess it is supposed to.  Satan has many more followers.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What's really hilarious is that you answered your own questions. lol

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So, what are YOU doing? smile

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Pointing out your flaws and fabrications.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nuh-uhn!!! smile

              2. Getridame profile image60
                Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Another slow learner.

                http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOnsnaXbDwpg3n-7piVQrac6edzJSZ3U-IcOAp1hHkIGf-ZDFB

                Gotcha again!

                1. 60
                  lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  God designed it as such- if everything was faster than the gator then it would starve now wouldn't it?

                  1. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
                    Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    So god designed it to kill? Odd god you have. Perhaps he could have designed it to eat sun light? Why design it and us to be predators and in a sense murderers on a daily basis just so we can all survive? 

                    I'd say any conscious god that designed it all this way should never be forgiven for it's lack of compassion and its cruelty.

                    On the other hand if the universe was produced through a non-conscious process it all makes sense, and it isn't maliciousness.

                    The fact that there is real evidence of nature (that being the nature of energy/matter) and there is no real evidence of a god is a positive thing.

                    Never the less, I respect your right to believe what ever you like. But if you are on these kinds of forums you are going to have to justify your beliefs and expect all manner of  opinions.

                    Best to grow a think skin like the gator. wink

          2. healthierdiet profile image5
            healthierdietposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think you're right with this one....lol

        2. A Thousand Words profile image80
          A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think the anger has many different roots that can't be summed up in every non-christian being "Satan's followers." It's ideas like that that many people find to be rude. Just because we don't believe in Jesus, we are "Satan's followers" whether we want to be or not. it's the psychology amongst other things that perpetuates the doctrine and the dogma that bother most of the people I know, along with myself. You can believe whatever you like, but sometimes, no matter what you believe, somoene won't like it. Just read the situation... If it's inappropriate, don't bring it up, or do expect to get some flack. Just like Christians want our respect, they should respect us. Just like you are passionate about what you believe, a lot of people passionately disagree.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I can respect your space, if you respect mine.

          2. 60
            lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Look at the comments on this topic from the beginning. Now, answer honestly, was it the Christian who used sarcasm and degrading name calling first? No, the unbelievers did. They are making fun of genaea for asking a religious question. What I fail to understand is why even attempt to answer a faith-based question if you do not share her beliefs? It is to fight and play the "I'm smart, see" game. What disrespect has she shown any of you? It is you "honest intellectuals" that have been disrespectful. I'm sorry if you guys have had bad experiences with Christians, but we are as individual as unbelievers are. To attack and make fun of one for his/her belief system and turn around and claim that those members of that system are disrespectful is more than disingenuous. If you flack for what you believe do you simply concede that you should never speak of it again? That would turn us all into pets would it not?

      2. 60
        lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus said in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Why is this? It is simply because the Holy Spirit that is within the Christian and the spirit of this world which is within the unbeliever, are at odds. You recognized "truth" when you heard it and the world at large has not (sadly). I would say they remain indoctrinated and you have been set free!

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          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          indoctrinate
          verb
          teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

          This means that the word indoctrinate, can only be use when a person or group has a belief that they haven't thought critically about. If someone just excepts on faith that God or the holy spirit exists without question, they have been indoctrinated.

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            lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, as an educator, I can assure you that indoctrination does not require any critical cognitive behavior. We are all indoctrinated from birth to death. The difference is simply that some have realized this simple truth and thus, are set free (choosing to shake off their "taught" world view) while most continue on as usual-indoctrinated in their views that if visualized, would look oddly like a Venn Diagram. If you do not think that you have been indoctrinated my friend, you are greatly mistaken!

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              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Sure I was raised as a Catholic and was indoctrinated, but at about 11 or 12 I started to question what I was doing and started to look at the church from the outside. Nobody told me to think the way I do and I didn't bring it up to anyone until I was about 19. So you tell me just how I was indoctrinated to be an Atheist? I think that if one can plant the seed of doubt young enough (before the brain is finished developing) some can be reached. Otherwise we end up with someone disbelieving science in the favour of the bible.

              1. Claire Evans profile image89
                Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Radman, this doesn't make sense.  If you were indoctrinated, you could not possibly start to question later on.  You would have pushed all critical thinking aside.  Indoctrinated people can't reason.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure they can, they just need to start before there brain is fully developed. Once I started to question I couldn't stop. The next thing I know I was looking from the outside in.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image89
                    Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What was your first question?

        2. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe it's because this "truth" that you speak of is filled with only LIES.  Imagine that! 

          Try actually telling the truth and we will have no problem believing...If we disregard our intellectual honesty, and choose to believe despite the glaring dissonance, we will just become dishonest, immoral, willfully ignorant, blind followers.  There is no honor in being a slave.

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            lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have told the truth, perhaps you have missed something in my post and should read it again. I did not say that my truth is known to you, I simply gave a Biblical reason to Genaea for the hostility that she encounters because of her faith in Jesus the Christ. Further, my truth is your lie, not a lie. Just because you do not agree with me does not make me or my "truth" a lie. I could share my truth with you all day and you would still not believe. Also, I in no way disregard intellectual honesty. I simply have the sense to admit that we are limited in our understanding of many things. Science and those like yourself (I gather from your post) pretend that you can be adamant about so much, but before man had the capability to see the make up of a simple snowflake the Bible proclaimed "Have you entered into the treasures of the snow? or have you seen the treasures of the hail?" Job 38:22  Their will remain a great dissonance between faith and what you call intellectual honesty. I am more than grateful for that- because if you count yourself amongst the first group it is you who are being dishonest. You claim honesty due to intellect, yet you call me a liar due to your ignorance of spiritual things. There is no honor in that either! Proclaiming that intellect is honesty is rather obtuse reasoning. Are you a slave to your so-called intellectual honesty? If you were as honest as you try to come across, you would admit that you cannot be certain that God does not exist. Lastly, I would rather be a slave knowingly than to be one and not have a clue as to my condition. We are all slaves to something (if that helps you understand my point better).

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not the ONLY one who disagrees with your "truth"   Here are a few others that disagree with your outlandish assertions:   REALITY.  COMMON SENSE.    SANITY...



              But you go one step further than just admitting that we are limited in our understanding...when you assert that Goddunnit!  That's dishonesty.  Admit that you don't know...and be done with it.



              Pathetic!



              Since spiritual things are imaginary, you are the one being dishonest.  One can't claim to know things that are unknowable, by misinterpreting a 2000 year old book of myths and fairy tales...without looking completely dishonest and absurd. 



              Which God?!!! 



              Yeah I get your point.  The point is that indoctrination causes people to make all kinds of ridiculous assertions in order to desperately plead for the acceptance of their psychotic delusion.

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                lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I can blatantly admit that I do not understand how the universe was created. It is scientists (not all) that peddle their theories as fact. A Christian says, "I believe the world was created by a loving creator" not "I know the world was created by a loving creator." But, common sense dictates that order comes from order versus the contrary (that order came from chaos). Absurdity is looking at the marvels of our universe and determining that it was (in all of its glorious order) a happenstance. That is like a child throwing Lincoln Logs on the floor and them landing as a beautiful, well-built log cabin versus landing in a simple pile made of logs. Spiritual things are not imaginary in my honest opinion. Are you not the one claiming to know the "unknowable" when you so adamantly deny even the possibility that God does exist? You deny that you have been indoctrinated yet, you call me dishonest and delusional. I am not pleading nor am I desperate for acceptance. With your name calling it is you who comes across desperate to prove something. History has proven that Book you call a fairy tale to be very accurate. As to which God Christians hold as such He has many names that highlight His character, but when Moses asked Him, "Who shall I say sent me?" He answered, "I AM, that I AM." On another note, I would rather be pathetic and right than pathetic and wrong when I come to the end of my life to find that there is indeed a God and He lovingly holds us accountable for our choices made in this journey we call life.

                1. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The intelligent design argument has been debated and debunked so many times, it's insane.  I would suggest that you go to talkorigins.org if you want to see creationist claims and the scientific response.  It seems like you don't really understand the scientific method works, nor do you understand the difference between a scientific theory and the common use of the word.  Scientists do not assert anything with absolute certainty.  They observe, test, repeat, etc.  the "theory" of evolution is not what you think it is.  Scientists, unlike theists, examine the evidence and if it is proven incorrect, they CHANGE THEIR MINDS.  No matter how many apologists try to debunk evolution, they fail.  Miserably.  Repeatedly.  If someone could disprove evolution, they would have a Nobel prize.

                  What history exactly are you claiming process the Bible accurate?

                2. getitrite profile image81
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You, obviously, don't care to really ascertain what comprises a scientific THEORY.



                  Yet you are here defending those BELIEFS as if they were facts.  Secondly, you have no evidence, whatsoever, for your illogical beliefs.  LOVING???!!!  I guess Hurricane Sandy was a display of his LOVE!



                  So I should just pretend that a 2000 year old plagiarized book of ignorance is the logical default.  Right?  How stupefying!



                  Of course...then let's see your proof!



                  I never said I deny the possibility of the existence of a god.  Please stop creating straw man fallacies.



                  Again, I never said that I was not indoctrinated.  My father was a Pentecostal minister.  I went to a public school that held devotion every morning.  I went to church regularly, and I was SAVED at the age of 10.  I LOVED GOD!  You want to try that from another angle?  I was not "indoctrinated" to be a non-believer.  One sheds this nonsense after obtaining a conviction for intellectual honesty.



                  Now that is sheer desperation!  And disturbingly DISHONEST!



                  So any other gods, such as Vishnu, Thor, Epona, Ra, Allah, etc., are imaginary, right?!



                  You are no better off than I am.  Just suppose that when you die, you find out that The Amazon Jungle God is actually the real God.  You could be in DEEP trouble trying to explain why you didn't believe in him.

                3. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  additionally (and how did I miss this the first time I read it) You are using the argument from incredulity as well as the argument from ignorance fallacies in your statements when you describe the universe. 

                  Even if you used a debunked apologist claim like TAG to claim the necessity for god, you AT MOST can get someone to accept the possibility that a god may have existed - not which one.  You can't simply jump from science to "therefore god".  It's god of the gaps, as soon as there's something you don't know how to explain, god did it.  The problem here is that "god" could be substituted with "magic" or "bigfoot" or the flying spaghetti monster.  You cannot demonstrate the necessity for YOUR god.  Period.  Not to mention that TAG has been repeatedly debunked. 

                  You also danced around Pascal's Wager towards the end, without actually saying it.  But you're appealing to emotion, and all but saying "what if you're wrong".  Well, what if YOU'RE wrong.  There have been thousands and thousands of gods throughout history, but you don't worry about the consequences if one of THEM is the real god, and yours is imaginary.

                4. jonnycomelately profile image85
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "Who shall I say sent me?" He answered, "I AM, that I AM." A statement totally understood by all those who have experienced deep meditation, whether of a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu,  or any other mystic persuasion.  The "I Am," the pure center of our being, unchanging, infinite, and the fountain of all understanding and consciousness.  Jesus himself is reported as speaking of this sublime awareness.  In fact this was the essence of His message, time and time again.

                  Unfortunately the average person expounding christianity has skirted around it and denies its reality.

                  " I would rather be pathetic and right than pathetic and wrong when I come to the end of my life ...."

                  Sorry to disappoint you, but at the end of your life, there is Nothing!   You will not be aware of whether you were "right" or "wrong," because there is no consciousness for the person calling him/herself Icimarik. "I Am" refers to existence, in the here and now, infinite because it cannot be measured, instantaneous and not extending anywhere, backwards, forwards, up or down, past or future. 

                  In this moment, in meditation, you can find the True God, True Love, True Consciousness, One-ness with the Universe. There is no need for you to worry about anything after your death.  Just concentrate, as much as you are able, on doing the right thing by everyone else who is living around you in this here and now.  When that death comes you will have left it too late.

                  Only one eye needs to be opened.....The Inner One.

                  1. 72
                    Robertr04posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Excellent points Jonny. I may be wrong, but I think Icimarik was referring to the Ressurection ( which is the core of the believers faith, at least mine) when he mentioned awareness after death. You are quite right, the dead are concious of nothing, no dead loved ones looking down or up, for that matter. Christians also fail to read Ex.3:15. The Name of the Father is clearly stated. From the original Hebrew Scriptures,(15) And Alahym said further to M'shah,"Thus you shall say to the children of Yashar'al, Yahuah Alahym of your fathers, the Alahym of Abraham, the Alahym of Yatsaq, and theAlahym Y'aqb, has sent me to you. This is my Name forever, and this is my remembrance to all generations". They ( Christians) read a book that has removed His Name 7,000 times and replaced it with "god" and "lord" etc., but they STILL (not shouting) do not understand the importance of His true Name. Having said this, I can truly appreciate the wisdom in your words.

              2. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                somebody forgot to take their little pills

        3. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Excellent observation. Jesus told us that the world hates him and will hate those of us who follow. He said that we shouldn't be afraid of this.

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            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That's more indoctrination talking.

            1. 60
              lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yours?

        4. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed - Christianity causes nothing but conflict. Any time you have people who refuse to learn because they have a majik voice telling them what to do - you are going to get conflicts. This is the real reason the religion causes so many fights. It is easy - say the majik words and you are a self righteous believer with god on your side. No wonder there have been so many religious wars.

          See: History.

          1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
            Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            what relgious wars mark

            1. JMcFarland profile image93
              JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              ever cracked open a history book?

              1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                the only war of religion that I can remember in the last 100 yrs. iraq and afgan,the rest was started by athist

                1. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  yeah okay.  Which wars are you claiming were started by "Atheists"?

                  Religion has existed for thousands of years in many competing forms.  Why are you limiting it to 100 years?  You're missing the best parts - like the crusades.

                  1. Davidsonofjesie profile image61
                    Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    christians did not start that war it was the muslims

                  2. dianetrotter profile image82
                    dianetrotterposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    From what I understand about the crusades, Catholics were involved.  While Catholicism is conidered Christian because of belief in the birth, death and resturrection of Christ, there is no individual decision made to become a Christian.  It is all about being a Catholic.  Christian crusades should possibly be called Catholic crusades.

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Would you agree Hitler started WW2? If so, Hitler was a documented Christian hell bent of punishing the Jews for what they did to Jesus.

                  1. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
                    Vladimir Uhriposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Sir, it was our sin who crucified Jesus,

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to be indoctrinated or that you're unable to think for yourself, but that doesn't mean you're speaking about things as you see them, you aren't, you've been indoctrinated to speak that way.



      Uh, those reasons have been presented to you ad nauseum throughout your posting history here. How soon they forget.



      So that one day you might understand the indoctrination that has enslaved you. With many posts here, responses to your posts may be for the benefit of others who read them, considering those who respond may very well know you can't be convinced of anything beyond your belief system, that no amount of facts or evidence would ever change your mind.



      Yes, we know. So, don't be so surprised or shocked at more of the same.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And you are the loudest.
        We are not taken-aback by your rantings smile You are the one who flinches wink I am totally different from the way I was indoctrinated. Remember??? I have searched for what I consider the true messages. They often do not agree with the lies ai was told as a kid. But, the children (answered many times and denied) and indoctrination (answered many times and denied) are your strongpoints. Your ONLY strongpoints. That is why you cling to that. Stable? I don't think so, but you can stand right there for the rest of your days. I, on the other hand, will stand right here. God is good. He cares for 10cent birds smile we don't.

      2. MsJunieB profile image60
        MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No wonder A Troubled Man is troubled he has been as indoctrinated as claims you are just with an alternate opinion on religion.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, but I don't speak gibberish, could you please translate that into English?

          1. aries3296 profile image80
            aries3296posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Happiness comes from within and should be proactive daily practice.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Was that what she said? Kewl.

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                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ha ha ha ha. I didn't see that one coming.

          2. MsJunieB profile image60
            MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I said you are as indoctrinated in your opinion as you say genaea is in Christianity. You are saying nothing Christians haven't heard for years, yet we still believe.

    3. secularist10 profile image91
      secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There are several things going on here.

      Firstly, you said "because I believe in Jesus as the savior, I speak of it often."

      Then you said: "I am not the ultra pushy evangelizer who will visit you at your home uninvited"

      You don't have to be "ultra-pushy" to stimulate controversy. You certainly have the right to share your beliefs in a public forum, but others also have the right to challenge them.

      If you don't want to open yourself to a challenge, follow the lead of the Amish or the Orthodox Jews--they don't speak publicly of their beliefs at all, and nobody cares.

      Second, on this:
      "I am convinced of my position. Are you not convinced of yours?"

      One does not have to be tormented with an inner self-doubt to challenge someone they disagree with. I suppose if someone loudly spoke out against Jesus and the Bible in a public forum, you would have something to say about it. Does that mean you are "not convinced" of your position?

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, no. I feel that people have rights to their own beliefs. If I see someone speaking loudly against Jesus, or what I believe, I keep walking. Here, i am visited by the opposition. Now, ultra-pushy Christians, to me, do violate rights. Knocking on my door to spread the "gospel" is not polite in my opinion. But maybe some would not hear w/o that that type of evangelism at all. God knows best. I just wonder why the name Jesus causes so much anger and bitterness. But, my answer is quite clear. Had I taken more time to think before asking my question, I would have heard the Spirit say, "Because Satan has many more followers" much earlier. The name Jesus is scary to the adversary. He don't want it uttered. I get that now.

        1. secularist10 profile image91
          secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Again, this is a public forum. Not a private one. You have the right to voice your opinion publicly, and others do as well. It's a two-way street.

          Knocking on people's doors may be impolite, but it is not a violation of anyone's rights. If somebody doesn't like living in a pluralistic society, I guess they can always go live on a compound in the woods where everyone thinks the same way (such as the Amish or the Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Mormons as I mentioned).

          The name "Jesus" certainly doesn't bother me. In fact, I use it all the time in various situations. smile

          The problem for many is the self-righteous, demeaning holier-than-thou tone of much of Christianity.

          As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians."

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, the name Jesus (or whatever your language prefers) is, for sure the hot topic. Yes, this is a public forum. I did not say that it wasn't. I only said that we CHOOSE what we respond to. We may read the topic even before reading the first line of any topic. Me? I CHOOSE to stick to subjects that I am interested in. I am not interested in stuff that I do not believe in. So, we have two options in this case, for your behavior. Either you don't believe in God and you "just came to tell me how ridiculous I am", which says a lot about you as a person; or, you want to believe, so you come to be convinced. Which species art thou??? smile

            1. secularist10 profile image91
              secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No, I don't think anybody cares about the name "Jesus." It's just a word.

              It's about the reputation that many Christians have created for themselves through their behavior in pluralistic societies. That's what Gandhi pointed out.

              The problem today is caused by Evangelicals trying to teach creationism in public schools, trying to impose their moral values on others through government fiat, etc. That angers a lot of people who don't share those values. That is why many non-Christians have a bad image of your religion.

              I didn't come to "tell you how ridiculous you are," I came to answer your question in the OP. Whether you receive it (good Christian term) or not, is up to you.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Keep watching. The name Jesus is powerful. The name upsets the world. For sure, some have misinterpreted or misconstrued the words he spoke in an attempt to push selfish agenda, but that cannot be attributed to Jesus or God. They agree. We must find a way to agree along those lines, if we are spiritual. Since you were kind enough to answer my question, so far away from your comfort zone, I thank you. Your opinion on this matter is greatly appreciated! I know it must have taken a lot out of you to come to a Christian discussion to share your views.
                Fyi...not all Christians are going to hell smile for sure, quite a few of us will be first in line because of our disloyalty. But you seem to be labeling, stigmatizing, and being quite prejudicial. Not ALL of any group are the same.

                1. secularist10 profile image91
                  secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I appreciate your kind words. But there's no stigmatizing or prejudice here, just analysis and explanation. You asked, so I answered. As a Christian, you may not quite get just how intrusive and tiring the religious right have been in the US (although not recently, since economic issues are the dominant theme in the election today). But it's real. To say nothing of the general pervasive Christian motifs in public life in this country, from "in God we trust" on the currency to "God bless America" at the end of every political speech.

                  Take a look through my hubs (you are welcome to comment because I do not discourage people who disagree with me). You will see I've studied these issues extensively and have plenty of information behind my opinions. Yes, there are many fine, humble, tolerant Christians. No doubt. But there are also many prejudicial, hateful, self-righteous and oppressive.

                  So if you want to understand why so many non-Christians have such animosity, often emotional and irrational, you must understand the very real situation in the public square in this country.

                  Now, if we look at Europe, we see a totally different situation. There, there is no "religious right" per se, no large groups of Christians actively try to impose themselves on broader society, and religious belief is nowhere near as significant in culture or (certainly) politics. Populations are much more secular. As a result, there is not the highly-charged atmosphere around religion or Christianity as there is here.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    From what I have gathered, Christians are persecuted just about everywhere. We are pretty much free to express our Christianity here; as we are free to express strict non belief. However, it seems that God has been a force in this country at least as long as I have been alive. I have never seen an American coin w/o the phrase you mentioned. As well, the phrase at the end of political speeches that you mentioned has been uttered at least since I have been here (close to 40 years). The oppression of Christianity is a NEW phenomenon in this country.  We have decided that there is too much freedom for the Christian within our borders??? No MORE room for God??? We are tired of Spirit now??? We are irritated by words on the money that we spend NOW??? We hate our pledge NOW because it includes the words "one nation under God"??? I remember saying "the pledge" in grammar school. I also remember some not being ABLE to say it, until EVERYONE was UNABLE to say it. Now, Americans who joined this country or were born in it, like our freedoms, but don't like our God???  So they keep freedom (which came from our belief in God) and want to "chuck" the reason for the freedom??? smile you laughing yet???

                  2. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Wanna move to Europe???

              2. MsJunieB profile image60
                MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The problem with creationism is not evangelical. The problem is Both Theories were taught until recently when someone decided to forget that they were called Theories not a conclusive scientific fact. Creationism doesn't disprove evolution and evolution doesn't disprove creationism. They can coexist.
                There was the statement in the '70s that we were going to lose our little fingers and little toes because we had evolve to a place where we don't need them any more. Has this come to pass. No, does that mean that evolution is a myth? Of course not.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  How does that work considering Creationism states that all living things were placed here by God in the form they're in today?

                  1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
                    A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well caught!  lol

              3. 60
                lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Non-Christians have a bad view of Christians partly because of their misunderstanding of Christianity. Ghandi, as an accuser of the brethren is agreeing with Satan (adversary). The world at large has no clue what it means to be a Christian yet, they judge Christians. But, their judgment is based on what they think a Christian should be like- they disregard our individuality, personality, and level of maturity within the faith.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Gandhi, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ."

                  “If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today,”

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I love that statement. Ghandi and his people were kind, giving, compassionate and just about everything else that Christ was. smile i have not studied them, but what I have heard speaks volumes. Ghandi probably looks as Christ did. He had the look of contentment, and peace. His pictures always bring a smile to my face.
                    The Christians, for some reason, miss the messages on pride, selfishness, greed, especially greed, haughty spirit, and did I say pride? They take the scriptures and manipulate the context to appeal to wealth and false justification. I know. sad  I watched it a lot.
                    But as for thinking about the God I know, uncritically, I don't think is allowed. The bible told us to study for our own benefit. But it did not say to study Aristotle; but study the word of God.
                    I had to do that, contradiction was getting to be too much for me. So, I sat down, prayed to the father for his spirit to understand. Once I focused on contradiction #1. "God wants to bless you with riches!!!! But you gotta "prove him now!" You give to him, and he will give to you!!!
                    Well, Jesus said, it's gon' be hard for rich people to get to heaven. Hmmmm...
                    Somebody lyin'; and I KNOW it aint Jesus. "Let me understand this, Lord," was my prayer. When I read the scriptures on "prosperity" and I read a little further down each time, I realized that "prosperity" is viewed mostly as spiritual in nature. NOT financially. Greed will make you change scripture around. Knowing God who owns everything, is the best thing in life.  AND IT'S FREE!!! smile. Some of us do not know how to handle riches. God knows who to entrust with such a responsibility. Money makes most people feel as if God is unneccessary. "Pray for what??? I got erthang I wont!" (Such deception)
                    God knows who is who. Many other so-called contradictions are also cleared up completely with simply reading a little bit further down the page.
                    The bible is solid. Study it for yourself.

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                    lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ghandi's quote lumps "Christians" into one big mass. It assumes that all behave the same way. Had he said, "... I do not like some Christians" that would have been a fair, intelligent response to Christianity. Not all who claim Christianity are Christians. Also, the world view of what a Christian should be like is based largely on opinion alone. Before judging a Christian, perhaps one should read the Bible in its entirety as that is what governs the Christian life. Most who are quick to point out perceived flaws in the walk of a Christian have not the foggiest idea of what being a Christian is truly all about.They forget that even Jesus ran the money exchangers out of the temple court yard with cords He had braided together. It was Jesus who proclaimed that we have it wrong if we think He came to bring peace. It was Jesus who said if anyone loves the world, the love for God is not in them. Ghandi and many others think Christianity and God for that matter, is all tip-toe through the posies and smile while you're doing it. A Christian can feed the world and lose his/her temper and all the unbelieving world would notice is that he/she lost his/her temper. Being a Christian is not being an emotional super hero, it is a journey and we learn as we walk it. We are not perfect people, we are forgiven people who agree with God that we are in need of a Savior. A true Christian realizes their struggle with sin and they do so not because Ghandi or anyone else points it out, but because their love for God and His love returned moves them.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sounds good to me. I believe Ghandi was very much like Christ himself. Christians do get stupid. I may even have MY moment from time to time. smile It is not our actions but our faith. The SAME can apply for all.
                  Jesus realized our disadvantage in dealing with self. TOO MANY "SO-CALLED CHRISTIANS" are galloping around on their HIGH-horses and doing exactly what biblical believers were told by Jesus NOT to do. Judgment is reserved. Thinking you are something when you are really nothing is deception. We ALL are missing the "mark" of perfection. To turn up one's nose at anyone is a PRIDE stolen. Jesus pointed out clearly that NO ONE can "cast the first stone" but him, and not even he threw a stone at anyone beside the people of the church. He actually fought with them. smile 
                  People forget that God's mercy MUST extend to ; even themselves.

    4. secularist10 profile image91
      secularist10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thirdly, I guess Christians have a hard time understanding why people view their belief system as ridiculous. So here is a thought experiment:

      *Christianity claims that a man was born to a virgin woman. Humans cannot be born to virgins. This violates laws of biology and physiology.

      *Christianity claims that a man converted water into wine. This is impossible, and violates a number of physical laws.

      *Christianity claims that a man died, and came back to life. This is also impossible. No living thing can die and come back to life, so this violates basic physical and biological laws.

      There's more where that came from, but that's enough for now.

      So imagine someone loudly declared they had found the "truth." You would ask, what is this truth? And they reply: 10,000 years ago, a man got pregnant and gave birth to a child named Zorba. Zorba grew up, transformed a chicken into an elephant (among other things), and when he died, instead of falling over dead, he melted and became a puddle of mud.

      You see how his story violates the same physical and biological laws as the Jesus story. You would be forgiven if you burst out laughing when this person with the "truth" told this story with a straight face. You would also be forgiven for seeing that individual as unintelligent and fooled by ancient superstition.

      Whatever else Zorba said, did, his message, his example, etc, will not make up for the ridiculous claims made about his life.

      Christians who want to enter the public forum should be prepared for being seen as pushing a hilarious belief system.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I understand what you mean. My faith believes the miracles you mentioned. It is ok with me that you don't. Call me crazy! I can handle that too smile. Zorba is imaginative. Jesus is not. Believe with all your heart or chuck it all out the window. Your rights are protected too.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's why your beliefs have no credibility, you place above one imaginative character above all others.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Alright already!!! wink
            P. S. A.:
            Ladies and Gentlemen, lend me your ear!  ATM does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God is the powerful almighty.
            Thisinfoissubjecttochangeattheslightestofnotice smile
            Better???

      2. MsJunieB profile image60
        MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You do not know that "virgins" have babies? There has been research done by the medical profession that some woman get pregnant without the conventional description of sex. They are intact physically there for virgins. It doesn't happen often, but a medical doctor used this as an argument against Christians because it meant Jesus wasn't a miracle. His mother had a rare form of pregnancy, but it was not a one time occurrence.
        By the way I am a Christian and this article did not shake my faith. The comments in argument are the same by most nonbelievers: If Christians were better people I would believe them or check out their belief. If we were better people we wouldn't need Jesus we could save ourselves. That is exactly why we are Christians because we all fall short of expectations.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Could anything shake your faith?

          I wouldn't believe them if Christians were better people. The entire story is nonsense. The fact that Christians are not better people just means that they don't actually believe it either. wink

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            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's always been my thought that most Christians don't actually believe what they say. The proof is in the pudding.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Exactly. You can bet your life if I genuinely thought I was going to be burned in hell for committing a sin - I would be sin free. These guys obviously don't believe it.

              They just want you to. wink

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                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                At the very least Christians would certainly be free of unwed mothers and adultery. Sadly that  is not the case.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Nope! wink Read the entire bible, especially the words of Jesus. smile pay particilar attention to the phrase, "Let he who is without sin..."  God is the ultimate peacemaker wink man "takes note" of all your downfalls wink God looks beyond...  You find forgiveness and grace too smile or don't. smile

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                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Let me get this through my thick skull. You think you can commit as much sin as you like. Throw away the 10 commandments, murder, adultery if you like, but as long you say you believe in Jesus, your in.

                    Is that why there are so many Christians in Jail?

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Oooooohhhh! Hell is the fear???  Guess what... "There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."
                Remember the criminal who died at Jesus' side? His crooked and probably filthy existence here on earth, was tranformed into pure acceptability in "paradise" because he believed, 1 minute before his death. He had no time to "be" good. His belief would have perfected him, and that is all that is important to God. Just be "willing" to hear and obey. Humans cannot be "good" no matter how hard they try!!! Faith in Jesus is key. God looks at your heart. The bible says, "Out if the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." If you say what Jesus said, he can be seen (by God) in your heart. But you gotta believe it. Again, God reads the heart. If you TRULY mean to follow, it gets easier and easier, bit by bit. Never to perfection. God did not provide us with perfection. It is found in Jesus.

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                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course it get easier and easier to believe. I've seen people believe there own lies once they tell them enough.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Have you seen it, first, in yourself?

                2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh - I know - it doesn't matter how bad Christians are - they get the free pass.

                  I am good. Please stop lying about me - thanks.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ok smile

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              SOMEBODY SAY PUDDING? i loooove puddin' smile

          2. MsJunieB profile image60
            MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You don't get it Mark. No one can be sin free. We are human and have free choice. We aren't as indoctrinated as people seem to believe or we would not speed, complain about taxes or our Presidents. I hate seeing cars with Christian ids on them. If they cut me off in traffic or run a red light, I always cringe because I know it is another reason for a non-Christian to say, "See they don't believe their own nonsense. They are worse than me."

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No - your beliefs are nonsense. As in- they make no sense at all. And you clearly don't believe or you would indeed be sin free. Eternity in hell for sinning? You don't believe it.

              I am sin free, thanks for asking. wink

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Mark, are you a believer or no? I think you have flipped a time or two.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You can't tell that I don't believe?

                  No - never believed it even when I was having it stuck to me at Church School. It is nonsense - sorry. Even you cannot properly put it into words. wink

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh. Ok.

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Right. When you are looking to condemn, you are condemned already. People forget that though. It is by our own standards that we are judged. Now I see why the most judgmental, find it hard to believe the message. They would condemn themselves.
              The love of God is not rigid. He knows what he created.

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                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I enjoy reading and listening to people who all have there own version of God that neatly reflects what they need. "Murder, adultery, swearing, those are not big sins, God forgives those."

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  God forgives ALL sin. 'Cept blasphemy of the holy spirit.

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                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess that's another thing you don't do. Your good to do what ever you like on earth to get into heaven. I'm not saying you do these things but you can steal, murder, have affairs with married men, lie, sell drug and do drugs. You've got yourself covered.

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            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Falsehood!!! But I aint surprised. smile

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, it's called In Vitro Fertilization.



          And, the explanation for that is...?

          1. MsJunieB profile image60
            MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No, there is a man and a woman, but they never go all the way. The sperm is deposited at the entrance and we all know they can swim. I know things are pretty lacks now days, but I don't know what is acceptable language so I don't want to go into to much detail. Girls can't believe they are pregnant because physically they are still virgins.
            Rad Man, she was betrothed which is like an engagement and they didn't live together until after she was pregnant.

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          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          We are also expected to believe she was a married virgin. Newly married people usually take care of that rather fast.

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The "church" gave the world "the finger" and shook it til people were afraid to say yes to God. So much "fear and trembling, fire and brimstone" caused too much fear.
          Jesus is not "out to get" anyone. He is loving, he is kind, he is merciful, and he is here. Proof???
          Uh-uh my brother, YOU'VE got to get your own. smile

        5. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          In my opinion, this is a terrible way for adults to negotiate life.  Frightening.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Opinion? Yep, everybody's got one. Wanna hear mine?

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No

      3. 60
        lcimarikposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You have taken God who made and sustains the laws of physics and all other laws that govern nature out of the equation- if He made the laws, certainly He can suspend them.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Once again your comment is proof of your indoctrination because of the fact that you are unwilling to look at the events described in the bible critically.

        2. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          God was never in the equation in the first place.  It is the blind indoctrinated believer who foolishly believe that it is logical to presuppose a god.



          Imaginary beings are IMAGINARY, therefore they can''t make or suspend ANYTHING.

    5. 0
      Justsilvieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yep the hot topic button is right.

      Like you I am convinced of my position and can understand how you feel. I respect everyone’s right to their beliefs and to worship how they choose. However, I do think those beliefs end where my nose starts and that goes for everyone and I feel bombarded sometimes.

      I get, mail, a knock on the door, or a TV ad every day inviting me to their church. It is never from a Catholic, Jew, Muslim or one of the many other religions in this country or on this planet, it is always from the same small branch of the Protestant church, that seem to be on every corner of our small town, there seems to be a church for every 10 people and they have decided they are the minority who are going to rule the majority and by rule I mean THEIR RULES.

      I do not want to live in theocracy of any kind nor do I want someone trying to push their beliefs on me, convert me or remind me I am doomed if I do not believe as they do. Especially people who do not know me nor have any idea what I believe in.

      My advice…  next time your religious beliefs come up for discussion just smile and walk away, and remind them your beliefs are yours, no further discussion necessary. It works for me.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, see... You have a much different outlook than I. I am here, asking a question. You may choose to disregard or engage. Why engage to tell me you don't believe me? Why not YOU who is the one to walk away? I make clear what the subject is. I align my question to those who want to respond. Where is the bombardment there? I aint stopping at no KKK forums. I don't believe in their cause. I won't intrude on anyone's Satan revival, or stop by any wizard of Oz praise and worship services. I am approached in most cases though. I am accused of insanity. I am called silly names. But I have nothing but the messages of the bible. I don't need to call you an idiot in order to get my point across. I just wonder if people notice how angry people get when the name Jesus is uttered. Lights a fire under many. But, the bible did say that it would. No wonder smile

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          Justsilvieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ooopppss my mistake, I thought you were asking why people were being ugly to you when you talk about Jesus and I answered to that but after, reading your answers to others I realize you swing a mean bible and I have a headache already. LOL... so I will mossy on along...

          But in closing I don't get angry when the name Jesus is uttered... I am a great fan of the man! In fact my favorite quote is from Ghandi is" I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ghandi speaks truth. A lot of Christians are missing the message as well. Thanks for stopping by, have a great evening! smile

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              Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              And how do you know that you aren't one of the Christians that is missing the mark?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Faith and "blessed assurance"

            2. Vladimir Uhri profile image61
              Vladimir Uhriposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Ghandi is dead, Jesus is alove and well.

    6. 2besure profile image82
      2besureposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Genaea, keep on loving and serving God.  You and I know that he is real and what He has done in our lives.  Christianity has not had the greatest reputation, I agree.  Not because God is not God, but the we are sometime poor representatives of a perfect God. 

      As a Christian, I believe we sometime talk too much and mirror too little of the true nature of God.  The scripture says, "By your fruit you will know them."    The most powerful witness, can often be the one that is silent!  Actions do speak louder than words. 

      Concerning the ridiculousness of what Christians believe...The nature of faith is just that, faith...the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  It does not have to make sense, It is the reality of the one who is believing.  It does not have to be justified, nor proven to be true, merely believed.  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14.   So, until you accept that He is God, you can never know, or understand God.  Kind of a catch 22.

      I was an agnostic, then an atheist, in a cult that sacrificed animals, mocked Christians and their beliefs, the whole gambit.  In all that I was still searching for something real, something greater than myself.  I found that in a personal relationship with God, through His son Jesus.  Genaea, it is OK, if people do not believe what we believe, or if they are offended by the name of the one who set us free.   Unbelief and offense, is their prerogative.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. The word is true and I thank you for pointing out that scripture. It was needed. My walk is not of arguing down the so-called opposition; but of illuminating the truth of the word for those who may be confused by false information. It is not a weight too heavy for me. These conversations have purpose for those who question and seek to know where truth is. Or better yet, have an ear to hear. They may not speak, but they are listening. They need to hear the truth. It is promised that they would.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Whoa... I completely missed your last paragraph the last time! What a testament. Tell it. How else can they hear (of the miracles and actual realities)? Not for "them" but for "the others".
        In the body, there are many parts. This is part of my "part" smile  I enjoy telling the truth. Those who are spiritual agree. Those who are seeking have info. Those who mind, don't matter. God is the author and finisher of my faith too. I am grateful. And I have the ability to articulate what I have learned; in spirit. I am comfortable here.

        1. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And others feel free to articulate their truths.  That is how civil society works.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Civil is a relative term. I think it is rude/ barbaric to "interrupt" a conversation to say what YOU think about the matter being discussed. Especially when all you input is a rejection. Mommy said, "if you aint got nutn nice to say, button it!!! smile
            As I said before, i dont mind. But I want to be sure we agree first on who the rude and pushy intruder is. smile

            1. psycheskinner profile image80
              psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society

              And I think a civil discussion is one where each person is given equal rights and courtesies.  So if one person gets to spontaneously talk about Jesus, the other gets to reply saying why they think he is mythical.

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                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That is fine. However, did you notice that you and I were not discussing. You "encountered" a conversation in full-swing. It "grabbed your ear" and you stopped to INTERJECT objections. For sure you have a right in this forum. But me being kind and non-pushy will not stop at an OP of which I have no interest. Otherwise, I am LOOKING for an argument. Jesus was not that way. Neither are those who look to him for guidance. He don't "swing" that way smile kind, gentle, loving, peaceful, humble, POWERFUL smile

      3. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol It's quite hilarious when Christians claim they were once atheists, then they talk as if they haven't had a rational or logical thought their entire lives.

    7. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's not your belief in God people object to. Nobody really cares what goes on in your head. It's when you think your christian values should be everyone's values that you get objections. It's when you justify slavery for the bettering of a christian nation that people question your intelligence.

      Listen to yourself going on a on about being bombarded with objections to your faith. It works both ways, it's dialogue. I had a conversation with one of my sons (15 years old) last night where he was telling me that hollywood has sold out and hollywood has lost it's integrity because they are making a dark (more like batman) Ironman movie. He got upset when I told him hollywood never had integrity and it's always and always will be about money. He became emotional and was stomping away when I told him that I'm just giving my opinion and he is still able to articulate his. He came back and we chatted some more. My point is stop making yourself out to be victimized. It's just conversation.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed.  No one has the right to be agreed with.  Just to be met with the level of civility they show others.

      2. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I an not making myself out to be anything. I pointed out that I am often the "victim" of rudeness and silliness because of my faith. I am ok with it.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And I'm telling you it's not because of your faith. If it's not you faith what could it be?

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My "innate" ignorance??? smile

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Nope, but keep going.

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                My friendly smile??? smile

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I have no objection to your friendly smile, no objection at all.

      3. RichusFridum profile image60
        RichusFridumposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Rad Man is absolutely right. People are so sensitive when someone disagrees with their opinions or beliefs. If you are solid in your "faith" it would be of no great matter that people object to what you think.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for reiterating my solidity of faith smile those who mind do not matter. I find it amusing that people are so enraged by my faith. Funny! Very, very funny!
          For example, when I read the OP, God is Fake! Don't you agree??? I have nothing to say. This OP is ignored. I just have no interest in that discussion. But it is not so with my non-believing brothers and sisters. I find that they always stop by to tell me how crazy I sound smile no sweat. But it seems like pushing your hand into a meat grinder to me, that is painful I think smile at the very least, inconvenient.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            There we go!!!!!!! You can only see your side of the argument. You think all these people are trying to make you look or feel silly, but you don't notice that you think your nation is a Christian nation and if other American's don't like it they should leave.

            1. psycheskinner profile image80
              psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, the terrible pain of interacting with people who are different from me! Woe! Gnashing of teeth!

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Everyone is out to get me boo hoo. I should disagree with others, but they are not allowed to disagree with me.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Again, I was here minding my own business. Out of nowhere...insult "storm". And I am the one called pushy and inconsiderate of others' viewpoint. smile funnyfunnyfunny:)

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't see an insult. Where?

              2. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Also, there are so many things that are more important. I don't need approval, just as much right to be "here" (Radman) as anyone else.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That's what we have been trying to tell you.

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                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh??? I thought you were telling me that I should "suck it up".  I thought you were saying that I should not speak upon my faith because it adds too much strife to the world around me. My bad smile

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not true. I see the arguments from all sides. No one can make me feel anything. I know who I am. I know who I belong to. But I do get "personal" objections. Not just "your God is fake" but "you are ignorant and can't think for yourself and stuff like that smile not from Christians though.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I get all kinds of personal objections. I have been personally physically threatened by a Christian who didn't think I should talk about the bible and slavery. You're not he only one.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm the only one HERE. smile no problem though. I don't mind being the "odd-ball" I think it becomes me. smile

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You're the only one here? You just accused me of insulting you and when I asked where the insult was you told me to chill.

          2. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            http://religion.lilithezine.com/images/The-Politics-of-Religion-05.jpg

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Where's the like button?

            2. Mandrake_1975 profile image92
              Mandrake_1975posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Where is the cartoon depicting the science of war, the science used to develop weapons, the science used to destroy the environment, the arguments concerning technology and its destruction of the environment, etc.?  The "religion kills people" argument is full of so many holes it is "cheesy".

    8. Mandrake_1975 profile image92
      Mandrake_1975posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You speak of indoctrination, yet I think many atheists and theists are just that - indoctrinated.  Most individuals today who identify themselves as either atheists or theists have read something somewhere that sounds "good" to them and they go on repeating it (Richard Dawkins comes to mind - a man who thinks philosophy, which science is necessarily based on, is no longer of value), rather than looking deeper into the question(s) formed.

      I think individuals interested in the topic of metaphysics need to truly understand what they are getting into and ask: where does logic come from and what is it based upon?  Can something come from nothing (I mean, truly nothing, not just some other dimension or portion of the multiverse or even a God making something from nothing which is not Deity)? If all things are random then how do we explain "emergence" and ex nihilo, nihilo fit?  Where do morals and ethics come from and what happens to society if we take that foundation away?  Can mathematics as information and consciousness explain the mind-body problem?  If philosophy, which is the foundation of science (based upon its various conclusions), is deemed worthless because we now have science, then what does that say for science once we take its foundation (a priori) away and downgrade the importance of its foundational findings which cannot ever be proven by the scientific method (see Laws of Thought)?  Is it easier to believe in an infinite number of universes which cannot be seen or one intelligent being which cannot be seen, logically, or do we just chuck the invisible intelligent being in the "discard bin" and accept the less likely (in my mind) "infinite" number of invisible universes theory?  What does life and purpose mean to a society under the various philosophical conclusions and are the supposed "true" answers actually worth revealing in the end, especially when we realise that by taking God out of the equation "truth" is nowhere near as solid a concept as we once thought?

      There are plenty of questions which can be asked, which will make people think on both sides, and make them think really hard if the correct questions are asked and points are raised.  It is not as simple as some think, and one faith, Christianity, is just one system which needs to defend itself against a mass of logical conclusions which one may come to based upon what we know we are capable of knowing.

      For instance, in my mind, the Christian doctrine of creatio ex nihilo is just as insane and illogical as most atheist conclusions and I reject it outright as absurd because it is obvious that "from nothing, nothing comes"; therefore if God exists all which is, must be created from a part of God because if it was not, then God violates logic, and knowing my philosophy; therefore, violates the very rationing which leads us to philosophically believe in God in the first place (anything created must come from a Creator) - making creatio ex deo more logical.

      My point is, that most people have not taken the time to develop their own philosophy and from there their theology (whether they realize they need to develop a theology for their "beliefs" or not - likely because they "believe" they have no "beliefs"; therefore, most have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to these topics.

      I guess what I am saying is that it is really two things: 1) Christianity and monotheistic religions are dominant and therefore will get the brunt of arguments; and 2) most on both sides have no clue what the "root" of their thinking is.  If you doubt that last statement then ask a Christian to both "theologically" and "philosophically" demonstrate their assertions, and an intelligent man will usually find them stumbling at some point (or at least admitting mere "belief"), In the same light, ask an atheist to "demonstrate" their assertions or alternatives scientifically (the smart ones, who should actually be agnostics if honest will avoid this) and you will eventually (given intelligent questions to their responses) find them fumbling about much the same.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Wow - that is an awful lot of words to say nothing.

        Can you show me some "insane," atheist conclusions please. Personally - I hate being labelled A-theist, simply because I don't accept that there can be a god. Am I an A-golfer because I don't play golf? No. Therefore the term "atheist," should not exist.

        And - how can you study metaphysics? lol

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Atheists are still working on their "conclusions" smile
          Now to me, that is insane.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            LOL

            Better take the majik then - quick before you get befuddled. wink

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Got it smile

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        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Way too much much for me to comment on. I can tell you I became a non-believer all on my own. I was about 13 years old and this whole God thing kept me up at night. The logic just doesn't make any sense was my conclusion. You argue that all this could not have come from nothing, but you don't use that same logic to understand the God you believe in. We are told be knows everything and has always been and always will be. Ask yourself where did he come from? You are quick to say we had to come from somewhere, use that same logic to explain everything even God.

        "Is it easier to believe in an infinite number of universes which cannot be seen or one intelligent being which cannot be seen, logically, or do we just chuck the invisible intelligent being in the "discard bin" and accept the less likely (in my mind) "infinite" number of invisible universes theory?"

        No one is sure that there are an infinite number of universes and no one is sure there is a God because both of those things are currently invisible to us. There are an infinite number of galaxies that we can see. Let's just say that if we can't see it or detect it we don't no for sure it's there.

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          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Unless we truly listen to what's inside.
          Keeping you awake is a sure sign of unrest smile since you did not get your "answer" you chucked the idea. God is still there. You knew it that/ those night/s.  He speaks to you constantly. You just don't listen. Yry it just once.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            God doesn't speak at all. If you look at the concept of a God you will see it asks more questions then it answers.

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He "doesn't speak to you" because you ignore, discount, and disregard. He is there. You just aint listening.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm just not delusional. I will not start lying to myself so as to become deluded.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yet... You are in a "TOOTH FAIRY" forum, right??? You have spent all this time to try and "convince" me that "she" is imaginary??? Yes??? Who is the confused one again???

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Wouldn't you like to know why a person would believe in the tooth fairy?

          2. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yep I once psyched myself into believing that I heard the voice of Jesus, but that was the beginning of psychosis.  I figured I could have just as easily heard the voice of Elvis, and got the same results...psychosis.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Then it is so for you. Why you "breakn my balls?" smile

        2. MsJunieB profile image60
          MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You all missed the point. We don't believe in God and Jesus because of anything we see it is by faith. You believed in Santa because you saw the results of that belief. If you stopped believing, what happened? You began to see things differently.
          We believe because of faith and the results we see from prayer. Miracles, I smashed both ankles, the main bone on each foot that joins the foot and leg bones. One consultant at the hospital said there was nothing he could do and left. The other, a Muslim, put pens in the left one because it was in 5 pieces but the right one was only for so he left it. He did not try to destroy my faith by telling me they wouldn't heal, he just kept avoiding the what if when the x-rays looked bad. I can walk, with pain, with severe arthritis, but I can walk. When I mentioned I had 3 churches praying for me I found out his group had prayed too. We agreed God healed me because there was not other explanation for my out come. I even had physical therapists say, when I was teaching kindergarteners to skip, that they couldn't believe I could do it after such severe breaks. How can I doubt God?

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You healed, kind of, where's the miracle.

          2. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Which is it? You have contradicted your self here. First you say you believe by faith and not anything you see -  then you claim you believe because you see miracles happen. If you consider pinning broken bones by medical doctors a miracle.

            Surprised you bothered going to a hospital in the first place.

          3. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly, kids begin to understand make believe, yet adult religious believers don't.



            Once again, we find believers not giving credit where credit is due. Why didn't God just heal you from the get go, why did you bother going to the hospital? Obviously, doctors are irrelevant when standing next to your faith.

            1. A Troubled Woman profile image61
              A Troubled Womanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What an excellent catch! Mind boggling performance! The question is - why isn't G_d punctual? LOL!  lol

          4. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Just understand that you all agreed upon delusion and willful ignorance.
            At 22 it was determined that I had a heart defect.  Then at 26 I found myself admitted to ICU.  I was confined to the Cardiac ward for 2 weeks, were I didn't know if I would live or die.  The doctors did everything they could to figure out my prognosis.  Eventually I was able to leave the hospital, but about three years later, at 30 I had the worst attack ever.  The pain was so severe, I wanted to die.  I was admitted to the hospital, where I suspected I would expire.  The doctors could not stabilize my heartbeat, and the pain was unbearable.  I was angry that I was going to die young, but I hastened to just get it over with.  For over a week, every morning that I woke up I was totally surprised that I had not expired.  I also felt somewhat let down, because this meant I would have to go through the pain for yet another day.  It took over a month to regain my health, but I still knew that this disorder would recur.   But to my surprise, it has not occurred since...and that was over 20 years ago.  In fact, all recent medical test that I have taken, show no signs of any heart disease, and I am as youthful as people half my age.

            This has absolutely nothing to do with the silly, ancient myths, written thousands of years ago, by ignorant goat herders, because I never prayed, and during the whole time, while lying on my death bed, I never, once, changed my atheistic beliefs.  Credit goes to the medical professionals and chance.

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              God rains on the just as well as the unjust. You don't say God healed you and just maybe, he did not.

              1. getitrite profile image81
                getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Your imaginary god didn't do anything.  to think that nonexistent entities can magically come to life and affect reality suggests a serious psychotic disconnect.

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                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Now you sound like a broken record. smile
                  Will you please look inside yourself to see the psychological absurdity? You are adamantly arguing your "Tooth Fairy" points. smile how ridiculous!!!

                  1. getitrite profile image81
                    getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Only responding to your repetitive insane comments.  You keep inserting these irrelevant whimsical praises/attributions, of your delusional Jesus, into your responses, which I see as a symptom of an unbalanced state.  Your mindless praising of your invisible friend answers nothing.  You need to debate the real issues.  Just reminding you...that's all.  Christ Psychosis is unmerciful to the afflicted.

          5. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I know you believe because of blind faith. I was taught the same nonsense growing up. Blind faith is dangerous, it should not be taught to children because it opens them up to potential danger. How many children have been abused because of the blind faith of the children and of the parents?

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              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              At least one.
              Blind faith??? Why is it that people who READ scientific materials and agree, think that they do not work from a "blind faith" perspective??? Because the book said "scientifically proven?
              Why don't you understand that it takes just as much "faith" to believe the opposing view??? Cuz the books say proven scientific fact??? Get real with everyone. You have placed your faith in something else. None of us were there when any of it iccurred.  And not many of us know how the "calculations" were done. And couldn't do any of them if "they" walked you through the process.wink
              Oh, to be fooled by self wink

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                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You seem to think that all Atheists believe Science as opposed to religion. This is simply not he case. Science has nothing to do with my personal belief system. My disbelief in God has nothing to do with any science. Science explains the universe and has nothing to do with God. That being said all science can be tested. Starting up your computer is just the start. Explain electricity to me and do a few experiments you electricity can be touched. Blind faith is completely different. Would you let a pedophile babysit because he told you he won't touch her? That's one of the dangers of blind faith. It's dangerous.

                1. 0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You are missing the point. If you believe in whatever you believe be it evolution, creationism, buddhism, atheism, hinduism, sky diving...it ALL takes faith in something. Atheists, for starters, believe strictly based upon blind faith that God does not exist. Test all you want. Who verifies that the "test" was accurate? You? Doubt it smile be real for real.

                  1. getitrite profile image81
                    getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    And, of course, after science fails, the ONLY default that's rational would be to accept that Jesus Christ, through God, his father, is the creator of everything, and is the ultimate king of kings.  Right?  Also all shall bow before him one day, as he judges all for inclusion into the book of life.  Right?

                    O...k...makes sense to me...wait!

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I looked and look for evidence for a God, but there is none. The bible is full of flaws, the hospitals are full of people of every faith. Cancer doesn't discriminate by religion. Prayer doesn't work because if it did Christians would never get cancer.

      3. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ok smile scientific knowledge and terminologies befuddle me smile I rarely take it in. Science and math are my weakest areas. I wonder if that is by design smile Thanks for the most "sensible" response to date. As I said before, it all depends upon where you place your faith smile the "church" says it like this, "whose report do you believe?"  The choir sings, " we shall believe the report of the Lord". smile

    9. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe the Jesus thing offends people who think you should be focusing on your God, instead of focusing on the story of your God. 
      Maybe you are seen as being unintelligent because you are too smug in your perceived rightness, with no room for doubt.  Doubt is one of the things that separates us from the animals.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        YES!!! I am do glad you said it smile people are upset with me because I am sure while they still search for answers. Funny phenomenon. People don't like me being sure about something that they daily question. I do understand that. Thanks for bringing that to light smile
        Call me whatsineva you want smile I am a child of the true king. smile

    10. 61
      syndecarterposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Dear Genaea-
      The Bible tells us that we who follow Jesus Christ will be persecuted for our faith regardless of how gentle and respectful the delivery of the message is. Here in the Unites States we who love Him because we know Him are often shunned by others but in many parts of the world our dear brothers and sisters are being brutally massacred for it. Remember Genaea that there is a fierce battle taking place in this world that our human eyes cannot see. Although we cannot see it taking place it is very, very real. Gods Word speaks often about it and prepares us when we find ourselves under attack. The reason that unbelievers recoil upon the mention of the word Jesus is because it is a light that shines into the dark areas of their lives that they do not want exposed. But the light of Jesus inside of us does exactly that. Continue to stand by the One who stood by you Genaea and may He make your knees strong on the journey as you follow Him. God bless.
      Synde

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you. We agree.

      2. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Massacred? Who is being brutally massacred because of their faith?

    11. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      genaea, for me, it works like this. I understand your desire to talk about something that governs your life. That's fine. Just I don't want to hear about it because it bores me to destruction and, for me, it's rather like someone going on about the tooth fairy. Quite honestly, I don't talk about atheism either, and it would bore me just as much to talk about atheism all the time. To me, these are things that were settled a long time ago in my life, and just as I no longer talk about dolls, I've moved on.

      I think the old saying that birds of a feather flock together (like draws like) holds true.

      Best thing is just to keep your beliefs to yourself or to only talk to them in people in your own circle.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I am in my circle smile the circle was bombarded by hungry little foxes. It is expected that you all would join me. Kind of like coming to me and "my dolly's" tea party and burning your mouth with the "pretend" beverage over and over and over again. wink silly aint it???
        Do an experiment. Start a forum about the honesty of Pinocchio whom we have found, actually lives in Queens, father to all the kids of the little old lady in the shoe. See how many people argue with you even for a day.

      2. Drive By Quipper profile image60
        Drive By Quipperposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This is your advice for someone on a religion and philosophy forum? Go figure.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This happens all the time. One comes to a conversation about Jesus to receive. No matter what they say. wink

          1. Drive By Quipper profile image60
            Drive By Quipperposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            True that!

          2. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That's coming from an ego with the inability to see the obvious.  We are not here because we have doubts about Jesus, we are here to challenge and expose your absurd beliefs, and put them in the proper place that they belong...the garbage.

            1. 0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "No matter WHAT they say" smile

    12. jellygator profile image94
      jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I haven't read the replies to you, and I'm certainly not out to change anyone's faith. You seem to feel offended by what others are saying to you, but by your own admission you say you talk about your beliefs often. You're putting others on the spot when they don't believe as you do, but you get offended when they do the same TO you.

      As a person who is not Christian but believes that Jesus existed and that there are many truths in the Bible, I still have a problem with a few things about people who behave as you do. Here's why:

      1. Very few people read the Bible even though they identify as Christian. I have a problem with people posing as "believers" in something they've never given serious thought to. Yes, that's what I'd call ignorance, as it stems from the same place that bigotry and racism come from - making snap judgments without enough information.

      2. Those who do read the Bible often don't study or understand it. For example, many Christians condemn homosexuality based on the verses found in Leviticus that say man should not lie with another man. But they have NO idea why it was written, NO understanding that it was only meant to apply to a particular group of people. Many Christians insist that the Bible is 100% accurate and literal despite glaring contradictions that prove it isn't so. There are thousands and thousands of known errors, some of the traceable to a particular source, yet when confronted with well-researched information, these people insist on holding their position. Yes, that's an example of NOT thinking and instead, just blindly accepting whatever is convenient.

      I have no problem with Christians or people of any other faith believing anything they want to. But I have a big problem with someone who repeatedly confronts me with something that's not valid again and again. If you want to believe everyone with green eyes is named Michael, that's your business, but if you tell me that, I might ignore your error or I might explain why I disagree. If you're offended and insist on believing all green-eyed folks are named Michael because you heard that somewhere or read it in a book, then I will have no choice but to conclude that ignorance governs your way of thinking.

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        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, it is apparent that you have not read much of this exchange.
        Here's why:
        1. Had you read the OP, you would have noticed that there was no red "must participate" warning. So, clearly speaking the name of Jesus brought you to the conversation. I did not reach out and grab you. You came to me.
        2. There are a few people participating in this conversation who do read and understand the bible, though you clearly are NOT one of them...you are here. What were you calling ignorance, again?
        3.  Homosexuality is another of those sexual sins that the Lord detests. We must worship him in spirit and TRUTH. You cannot hide your YOUness from God. He knows your very thoughts. Take your burden to the Lord; he can handle it.  He has room for you. And his mercy is everlasting. Faith in Jesus as the "cleansing agent" is what makes you acceptable to the father. Not your sexual status.
        4. You were not confronted. "Convicted" is the proper term. smile

        1. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There you go...challenging and insulting a person anointed by God to be a minister, essentially challenging God.  Do you not understand just how serious blasphemy is?

          God made a place for those who blaspheme...a place of sulfer, burning flesh and gnashing of teeth. yikes

          I would pray for you, but you have entered the point of no forgiveness.  This is morbidly serious!

          ...Oh the humanity!!! yikes

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you remember nothing else I say, remember this: Not all who cry Lord, Lord are his. Only he knows.
            It is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but those things that come out. From the lips, to God's ears. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

      2. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1

    13. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      genaea, without reading anyone else's response to you, let me answer your question. I am a skeptic, an atheist, and a humanist. I never, never, never talk about it. In fact, the only time I bring it up is when I am confronted by a Christian who wants to talk about 'their faith.'

      The only way I can explain why I don't talk about something like that is that I don't see a necessity for talking about brushing my teeth, paying my electricity bill, or putting my make up on. They are things that are just part of me, and they are so fundamentally part of me that I've long ago become accustomed to them. To me, having a belief about who one is is fundamental to everyone, and, unless someone asks, it's a bit rude to assume that they want to hear.

      Why do they assume that you are unintelligent and brainwashed?

      Well, there is more than adequate research that confirms a correlation between the highest intelligence and atheism and that the less intelligent one is, the more likely one is to believe in religion. One is that? Because analysis of the facts leads the most highly intelligent to believe that there is no god.

      So why would people say that it's brainwashing? Because human brain chemistry believes what it hears over and over again. For instance, if one is sitting in a white walled room, and the instructor tells one over and over again that the walls are black, after a while, when asked what color the walls are 95% of the students will say that the walls are black. After a while, they will be absolutely adamant that the walls are black even when provided with absolute evidence that the walls are white. This is how the human brain works. It's how advertising works. It's how propaganda works. It's how learning works. It's how indoctrination works. One learns and accepts as truth what one hears over and over again, despite evidence to the contrary.

      There is one exception to this. Throughout Mother Nature, one in twenty of the mammalian species, is born with a different brain chemistry to others. That is the brain chemistry of leaders. They do not believe things so easily and are not so easy to brainwash.

      Your last issue is why people call you stupid because of your beliefs. Well, I guess the fact that peole are highly intelligent doesn't particularly make them infinitely patient. After a while, they just have had enough of people being so rude as to talk about their personal beliefs systems to them. If someone tells you that they are an athiest, that's not a signal to try and share your 'point of view.' It's a signal to drop the topic because they don't want to talk about it. I get rude when I've clearly stated that I'm an atheist, skeptic, and humanist, and the Christian carries on talking about it instead of changing the topic. At that point, I will just say, "You're indoctrinated, stupid, and plain rude. Bye."

      1. 0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Wow Sophia, thank you for your thoughts. It is obvious, however that you have not read the comments posted. Nor did you read "MUST RESPOND" in the OP smile
        Intelligent is relative. To me, I fit the description. But I have heard many atheists, yourself included, who speak without having an idea about what they are speaking of. That is not an intelligent act. The intelligent at least seek to become informed about their opinions. I know that I display intelligence, if nothing else. smile Inform yourself
        People call me stupid, yourself included, because the Lord is my shepherd. I follow where he leads. Unfortunately, people do not recognize how intelligent it makes me. 
        I do not internalize the rudeness, this is just conversation, I know who I am. And I know a bit about you too, but this is not the time to speak on YOUR shortcomings. This conversation is about Jesus.
        How rude of you to join the conversation to throw stones haphazzardly. smile but it does not bother me. smile Stay; learn something.

        1. 0
          riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "People call me stupid, yourself included, because the Lord is my shepherd. I follow where he leads. "
          People call you stupid because you follow those persons who tell you they are talking for god. You do not question what is told you, but accept the authority of your parents and priest who tell you bible is the word of god, while in fact it was written by humans who has no more knowledge about god than you or me.
          Intelligence is the ability to use reason and logic to analyse information and use it.
          You simply accept the statements  of authority without questioning its rationality. Being first in school doesn't make you intelligent , but only the one with a good memory. It is the analysis and application without prejudice is that matters.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you again for your opinion. Since I know who you are, I know exactly where to place it. smile
            I follow Jesus. If nothing else, that is apparent.
            The bible was written by humans who were present when Jesus was here. I trust their judgment. I trust that the bible was written for me to be informed about the things of God that humans of many centuries have also been informed about. It keeps things on a more even keel. Since the words are written for all to see, there is much less "speculation" and more tangible EVIDENCE that the words in my heart are true. smile
            In the critical thinking course that you speak of, I was the A student, not because of my good memory (thank you for noticing) but because I listen; and I am able to use reason and logic to analyse the information that I use. Though your uninformed observation does not really show that you have the same ability. Critical thinking exams require analytical thought, not memory smile
            Analysis should be weighed against what is ALREADY known. You cannot change your mind according to the weather, and call yourself informed. smile Some things you already know. You build on that. Not new PUBLIC OPINION POLLS. Again, I follow Jesus.
            Application without prejudice??? You do that???

            1. 0
              riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That shows a real lack of education. None of the gospels were eyewitness accounts. Luke and Mark are disciples of  Paul, who according to history and bible has never seen Jesus. John and Mathew are copies of Mark and Mathew clearly show the extent one can lie as none of the prophesies Mathew site has anything to do with Jesus.
               
              That is what we all say. You trust them without using reason and logic.


              You choose to see only that parts which are of your liking and either ignore or downplay the bad parts.


              In school, before the exam all the exercise are repeated many times that you will be  able to regurgitate what ever form the question is asked. If you use apply reason and logic, it will be seen in your arguments. Instead you compartmentalised it in your brain for examination purpose and never to be used in real world.
              Reason says a murderer hate not love, but you say a murderer love, where is the application of reason and logic?

            2. 0
              riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              In school, before the exam all the exercise are repeated many times that you will be  able to regurgitate what ever form the question is asked. If you use apply reason and logic, it will be seen in your arguments. Instead you compartmentalised it in your brain for examination purpose and never to be used in real world.
              Reason says a murderer hate not love, but you say a murderer love, where is the application of reason and logic? When you say Intelligent humans are created, you either imply that the god that created humans is not intelligent  or is simply contradicting yourself. And unfortunately you seem not to understand the meaning of 'contradiction'.

              1. 0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm doing this course which starts next week. It's how to think and argue... smile

                https://www.coursera.org/course/thinkagain

                Free from Duke University.

                1. 0
                  riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  smile

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Excellent course, I found this comment to be rather humorous...


                  "What is the coolest thing I'll learn if I take this class?

                  Nasty names (equivocator!) to call people who try to fool you with bad arguments."

    14. 0
      kylesandersonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well damn... If you're "unintelligent" I'm a monkey who builds space rockets.

    15. Claire Evans profile image89
      Claire Evansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Please, for heaven's sake, would the participants please ignore this Jessica? If you ignore her, she will go away eventually.  After all, she told you to leave her alone.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1

        1. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That  was my suggestion earlier, an you have put it  very clearly, it's the right way to do; let someone else to " educate " her

    16. safiq ali patel profile image70
      safiq ali patelposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You have the right to retain your faith and to practice your faith every moment of every day. Sadly as you are becoming aware there are many Jesus phobes out there who will not tolerate any mention of the Savior. But looking at the people who are Jesus phobic they lead very empty and tedious lives. Those who live faith based lives report a deeper sense of satisfaction and fulfillment in life than those who have no faith. Keep your faith and I hope your journey becomes better and better.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        And just who gave you this information? Someone has been filling you with lies.

      2. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, that's why Sweden is the happiest country in the world, and has the lowest number of believers.
        But  of course you can't see the absurdity in your ridiculous statement.

        Do some research.  Your religion causes more negativity than anything.

    17. dianetrotter profile image82
      dianetrotterposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      What drives me nuts is the people that go into inconsequential history from unheard of historians and expect us to change what we believe.  Can you imagine changing your beliefs every time some new person comes up with obscure history from some insignificant person?  I know Whom I believe.

      1. 0
        riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So do you still believe the earth is flat?
        Inconsequential writers wrote gospels and people believed it through centuries including you, only now historians are trying to get the facts right. You know that no 'historian of consequence' was able to establish that there was a town named Nazerath at the time of Jesus, but still he is called Jesus of Nazerath.
        So whom do you believe?

        1. dianetrotter profile image82
          dianetrotterposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I never thought the world was flat.  What made you think that?  Regarding Nazareth, I just did a search.  It looks like those who try to discredit Christianity all study the same talking abouts.  The tactic is to put a Christian on the defensive.

          I maintain ... you guys can believe whatever you want to believe.  That is what I do.  I am flattered that so much attention has been focused on my thoughts.

          Enjoy the pagan holiday guys!  Relax!

          1. 0
            riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Why didn't you think the earth was flat?  Bible says so, and people believed that same till somebody found earth is spherical.
            You shouldn't have changed your belief!
            Even the church couldn't establish that there was a city of Nazerath, though they made up a 'house were Jesus lived', just like the shroud.
            Discredit? is it like changing the end of world to end of Jews, as you made out in the elaborate reply to rad man? A generation is not a generation and world is just Jerusalem!
            "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'"
            How many stars fell from sky?

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The word which was translated as "Earth"  was the same word as translated when Cyrus the Great said "the Lord has given all the kingdoms of the earth ...."    Did Cyrus conquor the whole earth? No he didn't and he knew that he didn't!   SOooo  that word was NOT refering to the Planet earth.

              Q.     Discredit? is it like changing the end of world to end of Jews

              ME    ...   Again, translation discrepency.  Where does scripture say "The world will end"?   

              Q.       "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'"
              How many stars fell from sky?

              ME       In 69 AD Mt Vesuvius errupted and according to Pliney the younger,  for almost a week he could not see his own hand inches in front of your own face,  the winds were moving the ash and sulphur in a south easterly direction toward Jerusalem.
                A few years ago when the farmers in mexico were burning their fields their fires got out of controll. We in Houston couldn't see the sun because the skys were overcast from the smoke.  How much more overcast would it have been if a volcanic eruption the magnitude of the 69 eruption had been taking place?    We would not be able to see1/3 of the sun or the moon and stars.

              1. 0
                riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Interesting, how a jew got what is said by Cyrus. Cyrus was the king of persians. he hadn't conqered egypt(Cambysses did) or india. He did went to greece. He died fighting the Masagatai. As the emperor and an ambitious person he might have thought that the he was given the whole earth to be conquered, but that will not make earth flat. And haven't read anything else from bible? there are many other references where it is plainly stated that earth is a "circle".


                They all saw stars falling from sky? As far as I know star is larger than earth though the ancients thought it is small, and a single star why a small asteroid can destroy a large area of earth. So did god mistook asteroid for a star?
                Is it because earth is the centre of the universe that every star is gravitating towards earth?

    18. 0
      Lybrahposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm amazed at the all the God-haters there are up in here!  It's one thing to not believe, but some of y'all are bashing the religion.  It saddens me.

      1. JMcFarland profile image93
        JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        that's a misnomer.  You can't hate something that you don't believe exists.

      2. 0
        riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, we should all stand up for Thor, our god.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image85
          jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If you shout loudly and for long enough, you will get a Thor Throat.

          1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image87
            HeadlyvonNogginposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Haha, JCL, you're so punny!

          2. A Driveby Quipper profile image61
            A Driveby Quipperposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Clever!

  2. ro-jo-yo profile image84
    ro-jo-yoposted 4 years ago

    It is known that the name Jesus is translated from the from the Greek name Iesuos which is translated from  the Hebrew name Yehowshuwa.  And as you can well see that Jesus is not at all similar to the true name Yehowshuwa. So when you start speaking about Jesus being the son of god or god himself, it shows you are only repeating what you have been taught. That you haven't searched the truth for yourself. It also states in the bible that Satan is out to deceive everyone, the very elect if it were possible. That is why we should always be searching for the truth, and to find the truth we have to seek our Father Yehowah (True Hebrew name of the Almighty) Yehowah is truth.
    So the question is do you want to accept Jesus or do you accept Yehowshuwa. Yehowshuwa came in his Father's name. Jesus is a false name.

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good thoughts.  I just think that if you go to the bible to seek answers, then you believe what it says.  The bible says to seek the truth, but the truth is to be found, for sure, in the bible; for me and many others.  The bible speaks of Jesus being the son of God.  Now, if there are other names (and I do believe that there are many) then they speak of the same entity.  Jesus is the son of God, according to the bible.  So close, that the bible speaks of them being one (as the bible speaks of husband and wife being one) It is sad that people get so caught up in wording that they miss the message. 
      You quote the bible, yet, don't believe what it says??? Now that to me, is the deceit that is used to confound the messages of Christianity.  Satan deceives many this way.  Read the bible, quote what it says, now search for the "true" meanings.  It is a ghost-chase that haunts the very elect.
      The Lord cannot do much with a mind, where knowledge is, that is free-willed.  The heart is where we meet God and find his truths.  The bible leads in the right direction.

      1. ro-jo-yo profile image84
        ro-jo-yoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes I believe the bible, but realized that it is translated from both Hebrew and Greek, so to get the true understanding you have to look at the original script they were translated from. That is where you learn that certain things are incorrectly translated. Like the name Yehowshuwa and Yehowshuwa said that the greatest commandment is:
        Mark 12 28....Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Yehowshuwa answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear , O Israel; Yehowah our God is one Yehowah: 30 And thou shalt love Yewowah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
        He quoted Deut 6:4 which has the Father's name written in the Hebrew Script. As you see we are to worship his father Yehowah with all our heart mind and soul.
        So why are people turning to Jesus, it is a false name.
        A person does not have to be a Christian to believe the bible Christ is another false title. They were waiting for a Messiah not a Christ! This is another subtle deception done through mistranslation. Therefore you cannot accept mainstream doctrine, it is under the control of Satan, the bible tells us that quite clearly.
        And the great dragon was cast out , that old serpent, called the Devil, and Rev 12:9 Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
        And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying , Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, so since the texts changed the name, they are incorrect? No. We Americans say, Love "God" with all your heart...etc. Same message. Same God. Love him is the message. Some miss it because the name is different??? Also, they were looking for a messiah not a Christ??? Did you really mean to type that?
          Lastly, Jesus is followed because he was the most perfect example of God-following that we have. We know his instructions were impeccable. The Father is on the highest level. Jesus is revered for the work that he did. Correctly, the father is the only one praised and worshipped. Jesus is thanked and appreciated for his death and advocacy for us.

        2. aguasilver profile image88
          aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Can you tell me where I can get an Aramaic keyboard?

          I seem to have difficulty in typing His name...

          http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/aramaic.gif

          The fact is, we read English and the bible has been translated from Aramaic/Hebrew through Greek, into Latin and finally into English, which has produced the name Jesus for the Messiah.

          My name would by Yochanan in it's original form, yet it has come out as John

          English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ιωαννης (Ioannes), itself derived from the Hebrew name יוֹחָנָן (Yochanan) meaning "YAHWEH is gracious".

          Personally I believe that God can speak to us in any language, and is big enough to accept that we call upon Him... not His name.

          Incidentally, I went through a period when I called myself Yochanan when I was following the Hebraic Roots path, which thankfully led right back around to the Christ I know.

          1. 0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            In a nutshell! smile Thanks. Wording is just not that important. He knew that the languages would be difficult to translate one to another. That is exactly why he gave us different languages. Not so that we could not talk to him; but so that we could not effectively speak to eachother. He knows all languages. We get confused language to language. However, he does not. He knows when we call him; be it Yahweh, Jehovah, King, Jack or Booger smile He reads our hearts (souls) and he does not get confused. The important thing is that we call him.

            1. ro-jo-yo profile image84
              ro-jo-yoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              First I would like to say the the names Yehowah and Yehowshuwa is the correct English transliteration of the Hebrew names. Here are some bible quotes that states the importance of the names.
              Psalm 103:1 KJV
              Bless YEHOWAH, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalm 105:1 KJV
              O give thanks unto YEHOWAH; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.
              Psalm 105:3 KJV
              Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek YEHOWAH
              Psalm 106:47 KJV
              Save us, O YEHOWAH our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise.
              Psalm 96:2 KJV
              Sing untoYEHOWAH, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.
              Psalm 92:1 KJV
              It is a good thing to give thanks unto YEHOWAH, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:
              These are some of the verses that shows the importance of the name. And when Yehowshuwa told us to pray we say: Our Father who art in heaven Hallowed be thy name

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Wow!!! So I am condemned if I don't know Hebrew languages? Not! Please don't "argue over words" can you find that scripture??? Blessed and holy are his names. Some of us just cannot pronounce his "real" name. We have an advocate with the father though. I am pretty darn smart according to my peers. I can't even get the vowels correct in my head. Will I be considered slack, or at a risadvantage? (Please say you don't understand that last word so you may see what I mean)
                If my people who are called by my name (his name aint genaea, for sure) would umble themselves and pray... Let us be fair and speak about important matters. How can we not get upset with such opposition? Let us find a common ground.

                1. ro-jo-yo profile image84
                  ro-jo-yoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I am speaking about important matters, I am talking about our very soul. But all Christians have been indoctrinated by their churches, and while they were teaching you their doctrine they also dimmed you eyes and your hearing so much that it is almost impossible for you to hear and see clearly.
                  Your answers clearly lets me see you as such a person.
                  I suggest that you read this hub
                  http://ro-jo-yo.hubpages.com/hub/Lost-Truth

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm really curious, did you read your post? Like several times, maybe, for clarity.

                    You do realize that you're actually demanding others to believe what you want them to believe from the position of arbiter?

                    While it may not be my place to defend Christian indoctrination, I certainly would defend a Christians right to decide not to break it, regardless of it's insidious origins, intents and effects.

                  2. 0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What? Do you people wear shades while reading my comments??? smile The church is responsible for the wrong info that taught me as a kid. I didn't know any better. Christians really scared me back then. As I matured, I sought the truth on my own along with a prayer for understanding. Is that still some sort of indoctrination? I think from your last statement that your senses are dimmed and your hearing impaired but hey, just MY opine. Erbody's got one or two.

            2. jellygator profile image94
              jellygatorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "Wording is just not that important. He knew that the languages would be difficult to translate one to another. That is exactly why he gave us different languages. Not so that we could not talk to him; but so that we could not effectively speak to eachother. "

              If you believe this, then you must be defying God's will by even attempting what He didn't mean for you to know. What nonsense!

              1. 0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You still are not reading.

          2. Drive By Quipper profile image60
            Drive By Quipperposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Tongues of angels, even.

          3. Michael-Milec profile image60
            Michael-Milecposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Exceptionally well said , John .
            It is this enormously in comprehantion gift of FAITH  getting us close to God to know him, to understand him, communicate  with  him and to work with him in supernatural

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Elohim was also used by the Hebrews as a name for God. And a few others as well.

  3. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

    Maybe the issue us that when you are "often" talking about it, it is off topic and the person your are speaking to finds it intrussive and annoying.

    By contrast I doubt I mention my atheism (also important to me) more than once a week across all of my interactions on and offline.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Im not trying to disrespect you in the least, Im just not sure I understand.
      I can see why your scientific beliefs etc would be important to you, but Atheism is a disbelief in the existence of a deity, as you know. Where as a person who has placed their faith in God has a relationship with Him, loves Him, is loved by Him, lives and dies for Him, offers their time and a portion of their finances back to God and trusts Him with every facet of their lives. It seems to me like you can't quite compare the two perspectives. It seems natural for someone of faith to talk about the being they have faith in, not that they should push God on anyone who isn't interested in hearing.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You are beautiful Beth.  smile  I would like to say though, that pushing is not my cup... I want to show people what I know. I want them to tell me what they know.  Just so happens that I am convinced about what I know.  Others... not so much.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I knew I should have read the whole thread... I didn't know what anyone else had said, I was just responding to that one post.

          No, we all share our beliefs here. It's give and take, back and forth. I just meant in general, I don't see anything wrong with sharing what is most important to you if youre not pushing your faith on someone who would prefer you to keep it to yourself.

  4. 0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    No one should refer to you as unintelligent for what you think. But, out of the utmost respect for the figure of Jesus and his teachings, I do find myself offended by many interpretations. A lot of things are attributed to belief in Jesus that have nothing to do with anything he appeared to say and I think he would be saddened by the high horse of Christianity.

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      He was saddened by the high-horse of the Jews of his time. Christianity is the result. But, again, we have found many ways to ignore or discount the messages of this life. Humility is key.
      I think that we have a lot in common (Hi Emile!smile. The heart is sensitive to God, no matter who or what you believe. We make the choice to say yes or no daily (sorry James:) because each day, we are faced with options to do this or that. Right or wrong. EVERYDAY.
      Intelligence is not what the Lord requires, if it were, that would be a set-up. Not everyone has even enough of that to tie our shoes properly. Knowledge of his will is required. To each of us, he gave a measure of that. We decide what we do with it. Misinterpretation is not even counted against you if you honestly don't understand what he "actually" meant by his instruction. He corrects you eventually. Yet, it is still up to you to "stand" corrected.  Try not to be upset by misunderstanding/misinterpretation. We are all trying to "get it". Jesus advocates for those who "know not what they do" smile God understands our condition.

    2. MsJunieB profile image60
      MsJunieBposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Amen to Emile R. very clear understanding of Jesus.
      Things have gone off subject, genaea, but I think all of us can learn from these posts. If nothing else, it can strengthen everyone's debating skills. Most of the conversation is very polite even when people disagree. A professor told us one time that is why teenagers argue so much. They are learning how to disagree without being disagreeable.

  5. Sri T profile image80
    Sri Tposted 4 years ago

    In a public, anonymous forum there will be many opinions. It's ok to follow whatever you choose. The problem that some people have with Christians and many religions is their idea that their path is the only way to God. This is one of the causes of religious wars all over the world. The reality is, people are getting results from all kinds of religions. Even if you don't try to preach to others, the bible says spread the gospel. I see people on the street everyday trying to convert others. Nothing wrong with that. If it works for them, great. But if we are wise we must realize that many people have gotten results before and after Christianity was in effect. A public forum is opinion and entertainment.

  6. williemjons profile image60
    williemjonsposted 4 years ago

    Hou are right................................there is God

  7. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

    The bottom line is that you talk a lot about God you require people with other beliefs to either ignore you or rebut you.

    If those outcomes are undesirable to you, maybe give it a rest.

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Well honestly, I prefer to be ignored by those who don't want to hear me. That is why I make so clear, my topic. But oh! If I say Christian or Jesus, the "little foxes" come-a-circling smile It is not REALLY surprising. It just helps me to have more faith. The bible said that this all would occur. How could they have known so long ago? smile I am just in AWE of the holy spirit. I hate that you are not. But I don't hate you. How bout those cart-wheels??? smile

      1. royalblkrose profile image61
        royalblkroseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I wholeheartedly agree with you genaea.... the foxes come out to bite, the intellectual humanists come at you, guns blazing.... The Word tells us tho' that He (Jesus) offended folk, and that if we follow Him, we will offend too. and Like you, I get tired of the offense....

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Tired, no. I think the "foxes" are searching for reasons to believe. Ha! At least id like to believe so. I just would like to see if THEY actually know why they come.

  8. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

    If you think people expressing a view are attacking you this explains, perhaps, why you perceive others reacting in a hostile way to your religious talk.  Maybe they are just saying what they think, and you perceive this as an attack when it is not. Why should they have to ignore in silence, while you feel free to speak out?

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is only one way to perceive, "unintelligent, indoctrinated, unable to think for myself". Such expressions are of a "personal" nature. Such expressions are meant to belittle and demean. I don't have to be really intelligent to know when I am being insulted, simply because I believe God. Your statement is more of the same. Piss down my neck; tell me it is raining??? smile i know when i am being insulted smile I perceive pretty well. However, I do not consider it a barrier. I know who I am. And I know WHOSE I am. Your opinions are just that.

  9. 0
    Justsilvieposted 4 years ago

    As I said before I have no problem with any religion. I think it the far right posing as Christians that turns people off on Christianity in America! Here are some great examples Now can you honestly say Jesus Christ would want these followers?

    http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0/bb/1/ffffff/a73c3613bb0e1fde9dec70b1b26a1312/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/CITY_GUIDE/2012/10/texaschurch.jpg

    Ann Coulter
    "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

    "Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims."

    "Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity, as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'"

    Bailey Smith
    "With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."

    Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America)
    "Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office."

    Bob Dornan (Rep. R-CA)
    "Don't use the word 'gay' unless it's an acronym for 'Got Aids Yet'"

    David Barton (Wallbuilders)
    "There should be absolutely no 'Separation of Church and State' in America."

    David Trosch
    "Sodomy is a graver sin than murder. – Unless there is life there can be no murder."

    Fob James (Governor of Alabama)
    "Behind this judicial wall of separation there is a tyranny of lies that will fall... I say to you, my friends, let it fall!"

    "A good butt-whipping and then a prayer is a wonderful remedy."

    Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)
    "If you got to castrate your miserable self with a piece of rusty barb wire, do it."

    "Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!"

    "You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!"

    "American Veterans are to blame for the fag takeover of this nation. They have the power in their political lobby to influence the zeitgeist, get the fags out of the military, and back in the closet where they belong!"

    "Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."

    Gary Bauer (American Values)
    "We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."

    Gary North (Institute for Christian Economics)
    "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."

    "This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."

    Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)

    "When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."

    George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)
    "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

    George W. Bush (President of the United States)
    "I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."*

    "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

    "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

    *Comment about Wiccans in the military

    Henry Morris (Founder, Institute for Creation Research, died 2006)
    "When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data."

    J. B. Stoner (White Supremacist) (1924 - 2005)

    "We had lost the fight for the preservation of the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created.... I praise God all the time for AIDS."

    "AIDS is a racial disease of Jews and Niggers, and fortunately it is wiping out the queers. I guess God hates queers for several reasons. There is one big reason to be against queers and that is because every time some white boy is seduced by a queer into becoming a queer, means his white bloodline has run out."

    James Dobson (Focus on the Family)
    "Those who control the access to the minds of children will set the agenda for the future of the nation and the future of the western world."

    "State Universities are breeding grounds, quite literally, for sexually transmitted diseases (including HIV), homosexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, alcoholism, and drug abuse."

    "Today's children... They're damned. They're gone."

    James Kennedy (Center for Reclaiming America)
    "The Christian community has a golden opportunity to train an army of dedicated teachers who can invade the public school classrooms and use them to influence the nation for Christ."

    James Watt (Secretary of the Interior)
    "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."*

    *Secretary of the Interior in the Reagan Admin. Responsible for National Policy regarding the Environment

    Jay Grimstead (Coalition on Revival)
    "We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."

    Jerry Falwell (1933 - 2007)
    "We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself."

    "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

    "The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."

    "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

    "If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

    Jesse Helms (Senator R-NC, 1973-2003)
    "The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian."

    "All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction."

    "Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that cannibalism, wife-swapping and murder of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior."

    "Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches."

    Jimmy Swaggart (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries)
    "The Media is ruled by Satan. But yet I wonder if many Christians fully understand that. Also, will they believe what the Media says, considering that its aim is to steal, kill, and destroy?"

    "Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest."

    "Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it...Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory."

    John Ashcroft (Attorney General)
    "Civilized people – Muslims, Christians, and Jews – all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator."

    John Whitehead (Rutherford Institute)
    "The [Supreme] Court, by seeking to equate Christianity with other religions, merely assaults the one faith. The Court in essence is assailing the true God by democratizing the Christian religion."

    Joseph McCarthy (1908 - 1957)(Senator, R-WI, 1947-1957)
    "Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity."

    Joseph Morecraft (Chalcedon Presbyterian Church)
    "Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."

    Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)
    I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."

    Kay O'Connor (Kansas Senate Republican)
    "I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote."

    Keith A. Fournier (Catholic Way)
    "We need a legal strategy which protects the rights of those of us who hold Christian convictions which will afford us the opportunity to contend once again for the mind of this culture."

    Laura Schlessinger
    "I want to coin a phrase here, and I don't mind help. What would be the communication version of "ethnic cleansing?" Because that's what in particular the homosexual activists try to do."

    Lester Roloff (1914 - 1982)(Texas Homes for Wayward Youth)
    "Better a pink bottom than a black soul."*

    *Roloff opened a chain of homes for "wayward" youth in the state of Texas; he was later jailed in 1973 and again in 1975 for child abuse due to the punitive punishment techniques used in his homes. He was then specifically given permision to re-open his homes by Governor George W Bush.

    Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin
    “George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”

    Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate)
    "Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."

    "There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The "negroes" of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."

    "Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."


    Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition)
    "The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would the people in America want to embrace the religion of slavers?"

    "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different...More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history."

    "When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals – the two things seem to go together."

    "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."

    "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."

    "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

    "[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers."

    "[Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism – everything that the Bible condemns."

    Paul Cameron
    "I think that actually AIDS is a guardian. That is I think it was sent, if you would, about forty years ago, to destroy Western civilization unless we change our sexual ways. So it's really a Godsend."

    "Homosexuality is a crime against humanity."

    "Causes of homosexuality include: 'sex with animals'"*

    "Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."


    *Paul Cameron was discharged from the American Psychological Association, the Nebraska Psychological Association, and the American Sociological Association due to his unethical practices and biased research regarding Homosexuals; however his work is still referenced by many fundamentalist organizations as credible.

    Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)
    "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

    "Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies."

    "I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like – and if you have babies, you have babies."

    "When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."

    "There is going to be war, [and Christians may be called to] take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them."

    Jerry Vines (Southern Baptist Convention)
    "They would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl."

    Rick Santorum (Senator R-PA, 1995-2006)

    "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"


    Robert Simonds (Citizens for Excellence in Education)
    "As the church watches from the sidelines, the ungodly elect atheists and homosexuals to school boards and legislatures to enact policies and laws that destroy our Christian children and discriminate against Christian families."

    "Atheistic secular humanists should be removed from office and Christians should be elected...Government and true Christianity are inseparable."

    "We'll take away their power and their money. Money comes from students. We'll break their backs by taking 24 million kids out of the public schools."

    Robert T. Lee (Society for the Practical Establishment of the Ten Commandments)

    "Raising your children under Americanism or any other principles other than true Christianity is child abuse."

    "You do not have the right to be wrong, regardless of what any man-made or demonic charter says."

    "Democracy originated in the mind of a rational being who has the deepest hatred for God."

    "Do you realize that the only thing that gives democracy existence is sin? The absence of democracy is perfect obedience to god."

    "The best way to insure the earth is never over populated is for sensible and righteous governments to clear all forms of atheism and heresy."


    Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)(President of the United States)
    "For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ."

    Roy Moore (Former Alabama Judge)
    "If they want to get the Commandments, they're going to have to get me first."*

    "Worship With Your Vote"
    Rush Limbaugh

    "Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."

    "If you commit a crime, you're guilty."

    "There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons... use them"

    Star Parker (Coalition on Urban Renewal & Education)
    "Anybody that believes in separation of church and state needs to leave right now."

    Tony Evans (Promise Keepers)
    "The demise of our community and culture is the fault of sissified men who have been overly influenced by women."

    William Rehnquist (1924 - 2005)(Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court)
    "The 'wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned."

    Michael Savage (Savage Nation)
    "Oh, you're one of the sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig. How's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better than to put me down, you piece of garbage. You have got nothing to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it."*

    I can on and on and on with the hate that is spouted in this country in the name of Christianity but I will just say "my 2nd next favorite quote "Jesus protect me from your followers"

    1. 0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That list was way too long. Your passion cannot be enveloped in one sitting. After about fifty of those crazy statements, my eyes went numb. However, I get your point, and have ONLY one quote for you: "Ye have heard that it was said, thou shall love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies; bless them that curse you; do good to them that hate you; and pray for them that despitefully use and persecute you." Jesus the Christ and Messiah and king of kings made that statement to those who follow him. Now you have a CLEARER picture of what the "following" of Christ, looks like. See??? There is a difference between being "Christian" and following Christ.
      smile receive it? smile

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But, we've moved well beyond that kind of archaic thinking because it is as meaningless as it is barbaric. We need not 'love thy neighbor or love thine enemies' as it an ideal that is based entirely on the diminishing of love to a base emotion that can be tossed around to anyone and everyone. From what property, description or characteristic of 'love' does one offer their enemies?

        Love is an emotion that is meant to be far more important, intimate and profound in relationships than just a "How-do-you-do" to ones neighbor.

        Just check out what happens when you say, "I love you" to your spouse and then watch what happens when you say it to your neighbors spouse.

        The correct word to use is respect, not love. Respect your neighbors and most likely, they'll respect you and all will be good in the neighborhood.



        And, just look at the mess Christians made of that one.

        1. 0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I just din't get it ATM.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I am not at all surprised.

            1. 59
              Zxoaicposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              We expect it from socks, anyway.

              http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7354347_f248.jpg

              1. Gitridomi profile image60
                Gitridomiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Deleted

                1. 59
                  Zxoaicposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Another one to show the process.

                  1. Gitridomi profile image60
                    Gitridomiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Deleted