jump to last post 1-20 of 20 discussions (183 posts)

Did the people who crucified Jesus go to heaven?

  1. tussin profile image61
    tussinposted 4 years ago

    On the one hand, they were murderers so they should go to Hell, but on the other hand their actions were necessary in order for Christianity to come into existence so they should go to Heaven.  If you are Christian and believe that Christianity is the one true religion, then what do you think happened to Jesus's executioners?

    1. recommend1 profile image70
      recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If such a person as Christ ever existed and the story had any credibility then - Of course they weren't murderers - any more than state employees who lethally inject for the death penalty are murderers.  Similar - it is not possible to accuse the 'Jews' for the actions of its government any more than any one ordinary unconnected US citizen can be blamed for the one million dead in Vietnam at US hands.

      1. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It was slightly different from what you are referring to. You see Jesus was proven to be an innocent man, caesar or pontius pilate washed their hands literally of him, but the Jews demanded that he should be killed. Eventually Pilate found another way of pleading to the people, it was custom that on the passover the crowd could ask for a criminal to be released. On this account it was a man named Jesus Barabus, who was a convicted murderer.  Pilate replied "don't you want me to release your king Jesus Christ" and they shouted "we have no king but caesar"..The he replied "what do you want me to do with your king" impale him said the crowd and release Jesus Barabus the murderer.
        The then sealed their fate when they said "let his blood be upon us and upon our children"
        Maybe that's where the saying "be careful what you wish for" came from..

        1. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Are you suggesting that the holocaust was the result of events played out in the New Testament?

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No as thousands of Jehovahs Witnesses as well as Jews suffered during the holocaust. What I meant was, because of this act, they are no longer Gods chosen people. Of course this doesn't mean that somebody who is Jewish would not be recognised if they accepted Christ. It means that they as a nation have lost Yahweh/Jehovahs favour for rejecting the promised messiah.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Or they rejected him because they themselves didn't see any miracles, which is the most likely scenario.

        2. recommend1 profile image70
          recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The 'story' does not change anything.  The executioners were supposed to be soldiers and so just doing a job.

          The story does not change anything. The Jews as a whole people cannot be blamed for executing somebody any more than you can be personally blamed for all the millions of deaths America has caused  in Vietnam, Iraq and countless other places around the world.

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I was asked to give an example of any future prophesies, I can't give part of it.
            The bible is a book of prophesy and we are approaching the most important and final one. Those without Holy Spirit will not understand, for the ruler of this system has blinded their eyes of the unbelievers so that the glorious good news might not be seen.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just as a matter of interest - why do so many with the Holy Spirit need to hide behind a fake user name and image?

              Are you scared of something?

              1. 0
                Motown2Chitownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You're late!  It's almost noon here! Good evening, Mr. Knowles.

                smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Had a busy day. smile Good afternoon yourself.

              2. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not hiding, as we are talking about Jesus I thought the picture was appropriate. Many on here have various pictures even atheists. The Holy Spirit is free to all those who seek truth. I am not scared of what I can see, but have a battle with that which I can't see.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Didn't really answer the question did you?  Why the need to hide your identity? A lot of people who claim to be speaking for the Holy Spirit seem to do that. I wondered why.

                  1. Shikinah profile image60
                    Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh I did the best I could :-)

        3. cascoly profile image59
          cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          this is just outdeated anti-semitic tripe -- it's based on NOTHING more than extremely biased writings hundreds of yerars after the fact and was used by the catholic church for rmany centuries afterwards  - even by the gospel's account, jesus wwas judged by rome and found GUILTY.  rome tried, condemned and executed him.

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If it's just Anti Semitic tripe, then why do the Zionists, take their roll as being the chosen people so seriously, why did they organise the re-settlement of the Jews back to Jerusalem? Why are they planning on building the third temple of Solomon? Why have they gathered a levite priest hood and made a solid gold menorah to go inside the temple?...Do you think they have spent thousands of years and billions on manouvering war tactics  for
            the fun of it? They are waiting for their own fulfilment of scripture they are awaiting their own Messiah, trust me there is no way around this it's all part of bible prophesy just some are too blind to see it.

            1. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              many people have followed false prophecies and had visions of themseleves as a chosen people - none of that makes a myth true.  reality isnt decided by a majority vote. and of course, if the Jews are right, then christians, especially fundamentalist ones have been wrong for 2000 yeears!

              you still havent provided ONE concrete, definitive prophecy that was written before the fact

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The Bible says there will be false prophets, that will do many signs and wonders. Nostradamus was a prophet but he wasn't a Christian so where did he get his abilities from?
                Who said the Jews are right? because they control the world behind the scenes doesn't mean they are right, it means the Bibles prophesy concerning them is right. You don't have to believe in God to see that something very intense is happening in the middle east, and with Israel, this all revolves around religion.. WHY? Evil-ution is a cover up and a distraction from what is really going on. Has you got concrete evidence? no I don't think so only that from HIS--TORY.

    2. Disappearinghead profile image90
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No they are asleep in their graves awaiting resurrection.

      1. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Disappearinghead, I know that they are asleep in their graves, but do you really think that they will get a resurrection? If so could you please quote the scripture which states this. As I thought there was a scripture which said "that there was more hope for those were in sodom and gomorra than for those who denied the Christ. Thank you..

        1. Disappearinghead profile image90
          Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Acts 24:15
          and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Matthew 26:24
            The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born. (this may refer to Judas)

            Matthew 12:31-32
            31 Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

            The Pharisees blasphemed against the Holy Spirit by falsely attributing the miraculous works performed by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to the works of demons. Jesus says that the sins of these unbelieving Pharisees will not be forgiven during ‘this age’, which was the age when Jesus was alive, nor will their sins be forgiven during ‘the age to come’, meaning the next age (the present age) after Jesus was resurrected. In other words, these unbelieving Pharisees all died unforgiven. However, please note that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit remains unforgiven for ‘this age’ and ‘the age to come’ only, but not forever.

            "All unbelievers will be humbled and repent during the Lake of Fire Judgement Age, and all of them will be forgiven, as explained in Chapter 12. Remember, Jesus Christ died to forgive the sins of the whole world. Also, Jesus’ last and most important prayer to Father God, before He died on the cross, was to ask for the forgiveness of all those who were in agreement to crucify Him. No doubt, the Pharisees who blasphemed against the Holy Spirit are also included in that group, and they will repent, be forgiven, and be reconciled to God in the Lake of Fire Judgement Age, and enter the Kingdom of God"Hebrews 10:26-27
            26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.

            God views a man as ‘sinning deliberately’ when he rejects the truth of the Gospel that Jesus Christ is indeed the Saviour of the whole world, after having this truth clearly pointed out to him. Such people who ‘sin deliberately’ are accountable and they will have to face fiery judgement in God’s consuming, refining Lake of Fire before they are reconciled to God. God’s Lake of Fire judgement for all unbelievers will be a fearful judgement, but it will not be eternal torment in hell. It will be an age-lasting, humbling and refining judgement from a loving Father who chastises His rebellious children to bring them to repentance. Ultimately, in God’s time and His order, all will be reconciled to God and all will enter the Eternal Kingdom of God of the New Heaven and the New Earth. 

            From  this research it seems that there will be like you said, a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous and each will be judged according to their repentance and acknowledgement of Christ as king.
            Reading this made me really appreciate the loving kindness of Christ, and of course he will be the one doing the judging.

            1. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              sort of biased research since you only quote christian sources written many decades after the actual events

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                casoly, why would I quote from any other source? When the bible itself has been proven  it's accuracy. Many of the scriptures quoted are future events prophesies which must take place.

                1. recommend1 profile image70
                  recommend1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The only proving the bible has been subject to is to prove that NO evidence for any of the 'story' of any kind  - background events can be verified but not even the existence of a Jesus can be verified beyond the mention of many prweachers wandering the area called Jesus which was a common name.  The magical stuff cannot be verified in any way , except in the story book.  The proven NOT TRUE is a bit more substantial as Bethlehem was not even a settlement until over 100 years after the story date.

                  1. Shikinah profile image60
                    Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Scholars agree that Jesus was born between 7 and 2 BC and died 30–36 AD. Most scholars hold that Jesus lived in Galilee and Judea, did not preach or study elsewhere. What you have to understand, is that when the Romans destroyed the temple all birth and death records were destroyed.
                    The British Museum has published a book which include numerous inscribed objects, scripts and pictorial reliefs which provide such evidence. There is, for example, a Babylonian clay tablet which records Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Jerusalem in 597 BC, as narrated in the book of Jeremiah. For this book the author has selected over seventy such 'documents', mainly from Western Asia, with some examples included from Greece, Egypt and Asia Minor, dating from the period of the Patriarchs to the New Testament times, c. 2000 BC to c. AD 100. He transliterates and translates the ancient texts, which include Cuneiform, Aramaic and Hebrew, and discusses the contribution they make to our knowledge of the culture and history of biblical times. Each object is illustrated in black and white.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabonidus_Chronicle
                    The Dead Sea Scrolls provides loads of evidence with prophesies about the messiah. http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a023.html

                2. cascoly profile image59
                  cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  ROFLMAO  -- i dont usually get into bible accuracy debates 'cause it's so easy to point out the many errors - as far as predicitons, they're usually so vague they can mean anything

                  i prefer facts and reason to fairy stories and myths

                  1. Shikinah profile image60
                    Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Queen Elizabeth, The Black pope the most powerful man on earth, all believe in Christ Jesus, the queen even says she is from the Royal line of Judah..Why  would such powerful individuals make up a lie spanning many thousands of years? Just like the fairy tail of an ass's jaw being part of pre-historic man, tell me what is fact?

            2. Disappearinghead profile image90
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Shikinah you appear to support universal reconciliation/salvation. If so then I think we are in agreement. I have also come to pretty much the same  conclusion as yourself regarding the LoF. smile

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Disappearinghead LoF now I'm really confused lol..

    3. pennyofheaven profile image83
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you know where heaven or hell is?

      1. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        unless you have been there, it would be a bit difficult to explain..I know the bible says that hell, hades and sheol are all the same and mean the common grave of mankind.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why can't you just admit you have no clue?

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have had a near death experience and I could have said yes I saw heaven...but who really knows?

        2. pennyofheaven profile image83
          pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So therefore there is no avoiding hell as we all die and our bodies go to the grave. There is no avoiding heaven which seems in your case to be a process of dying. So the woman in the opening post, would go to heaven and hell.

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Now thats very interesting, it seems that nearly every one will go to hell. The bible says that during the battle of armageddon that some people will survive and not face death at all. But get to eat from the tree of everlasting life.
            It also says that not every one will see heaven only 144,000 who reign will christ will. The rest who are asleep will be resurrected on earth, during Christs thousand year reign.

            1. pennyofheaven profile image83
              pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The other interesting thing is that there are over a million Christians and not all will go to heaven because apparently there is only room for 144000 in heaven.

              So the premise that all who believe in Jesus will go to heaven or be saved is false.

              Perhaps eternal life and heaven do not go together?

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                From my studying of the bible, humans were never originally created to die and live in heaven, but to populate the Earth and who knows with time perhaps more Earths through out the universe. When we say the Lords prayer 
                we pray "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven. So it's Gods will through Christ Jesus to bring the Earth back to what it was intended for. Yes those who do his will have the chance to re-gain everlasting life to perfection the same as our original parents. The 144,000 kings and priests will be joint heirs with Christ and be judges of those who come back in the resurrection.

                Isaiah 65:22-23 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

                Revelation 21:3-5  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

                1. pennyofheaven profile image83
                  pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That is news to me that Humans were never created to die? After being made in the image of God, the bible clearly states we were then made of dust and that we will return to dust. So there is the temporary (dust) and the eternal aspect of that which we are.

                  So you do not see heaven on earth already? Do you not know God is within already?

                  The revelations passage you quote is pointing to some who have already attained that state of being in this life. It makes sense then that it is not a future event. It has and is already occurring.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Interesting, one set of scriptures states we're made from water while another dust. Good thing science came along to dispel the nonsense in all scriptures.

                  2. Shikinah profile image60
                    Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You are correct some who have already died which the Bible calls Christs brothers or the anointed, are already in heaven, as the scriptures say they will be changed in "twinkling of an eye"..
                    If we go right back to the start of creation, we can see that people lived to extremely old age ,Methuselah the son of Enoch died at 969 years of age. As time went by and sin more engrained our life span has been reduced.
                    Yes the scriptures say that Christ is within us, I guess that's from the start of creation when the firtst breath of life was his active force.
                    As for heaven on earth now, I see very little of it..the Bible says this is not the real life. How can we have heaven on earth when satan is the God of this system of things? The Heavenly kingdom reigning on Earth is a future event, one which we pray for constantly when we recite the Lords prayer or   
                    "our father" .
                    It is something I'm sure I'll see in my life time, as prophesy and world events are unfolding and fulfilling scripture. What a great hope for those with faith and can see why Christ Jesus is the sacred secret. Only by him will we be restored to our original condition and understand the TRUE meaning of life..

                    2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

                    John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

                    Revelation 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who reside in them! But woe to you, O earth and the sea, for the devil has come down to you in great anger, knowing he has a short period of time!”

          2. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            im prohibited from posting...very strange

          3. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            im prohibited from posting...very strange

          4. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            im prohibited from posting...very strange

    4. wba108@yahoo.com profile image85
      wba108@yahoo.composted 4 years ago in reply to this

      When Jesus was crucified and resurrected, He fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Old Testament law and from that point whoever repents and trusts in Jesus has eternal life. So to answer the question you asked, I would say that those who crucified Jesus had the same opportunity for salvation as anyone else.

  2. Shikinah profile image60
    Shikinahposted 4 years ago

    Jesus was crucified by the Romans at the desire of the Jews. I guess the Romans were ignorant in the sense that they were not seeking the Christ as their Messiah, where as the Jews were fully aware of the prophesies, they personally witnessed the miracles etc..I know the bible speaks of a resurrection of the good and the bad at the end of Christs thousand year reign, but I can't see how Christ would set him self up in a position to be rejected for the second time. From what I can see they had their chance and blew it :-(

  3. Ultimater profile image60
    Ultimaterposted 4 years ago

    They went to a hell (or heaven) that their religion (which obviously wasn't Christianity) supplied them.

  4. tussin profile image61
    tussinposted 4 years ago

    Boy this Christianity thing sure is confusing.  I'm too dumb for it. I guess only smart people can go to heaven.

    1. Shikinah profile image60
      Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Tussin we make it confusing, it's all based on love and doing Gods will. One thing is true it does actually help you become wiser :-)

  5. Ana Louis profile image83
    Ana Louisposted 4 years ago

    If Jesus forgave those who crucified him, then they are forgiven and not condemed.  Luke 23:34  "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

    1. 60
      yourdecisionposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      did they repent though.? Or did they get a free pass? The fact that jesus forgave those who crucified him, says a lot about his merciful and loving nature, and attitude even towards those of us who don't deserve it.
      But it doesn't say anything about their mindset. That is what repentance is to me. A change of mindset. Or the formation of a mindset that leaves room for God. Even the least bit.

      1. cascoly profile image59
        cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        besides the fact that as beckett points out in Waiting for GOdot, only ONE of the 4 gospels says the thieves asked for mercy -- the others either just said they ridculed him or they were silent -- how can 4 'words of god' differ on so fundamental an issue?

        yet everyone quotes the source that THREE other sources deny!

        1. Shikinah profile image60
          Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Cascoly...Have you ever heard of sodom and gomorrah? Well God prophesied that the two cities would be destroyed with sulphur and fire and that nothing would ever grow there again. Archeologists believe that the area called the dead sea is where these two cities once stood, sulphur balls of immense size has been discovered and nothing lives in the dead sea. Archeologists have recently found the wheel of pharos chariot at the bottom of the red see, which moses parted. Any way I'm not here to convince those who just about believe their own reflection, as God said "They will have to know that I am Jehovah"

          1. cascoly profile image59
            cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            god did no such thing -- the bible stories were written AFTER the fact; besides which there's considerable doubt about the fate of S&G in the first place

            as far as the 'recent' chariot wheel, that's just more old regurgitated nonsense:
            "Much of this eRumor is based on the findings of Ron Wyatt, a colorful and controversial amateur archeologist who claimed to have found Noah's ark, the Biblical Ark of the Covenant, the location of Sodom And Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the true site of Mt. Sinai, the true site of the crucifixion of Jesus, and the original stones of the Ten Commandments.  He was a passionate and sincere man, according to his supporters, but his critics abound and scientists and archeologists regarded him as an untrained maverick at best and there are some who regarded his as a fraud.  Wyatt died from cancer in 1999."
            quoted from:
            http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/ … wheels.htm

            1. Shikinah profile image60
              Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not talking about Ron Wyatt the Seventh Day Adventist.  Are you saying that all of the so called findings of the missing link proves evolution? So if you don't believe in creation what do you believe in? Or do you believe in Zachariah Sitchins theory that we were seeded by aliens?

              1. cascoly profile image59
                cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                well, you were quoting wyatt's false claims [if not, what WAS your source for the RED [not dead] sea chariots?

                as far as evolution, that's completely off topic, but your opinions on evolution are probably already answered in http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Top-10- … -Evolution


                evolution is a  fact and is the basis for all modern biology.  the origin of life such as panspermia at least has the POSSIBILITY of being true - unlike the bible's fairy story about creation in 7 days, light being created BEFORE the sun and moon [sic], etc, etc

                1. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You obviously do not understand the bible and it's time in relation to the creator. The bible says one day is a thousand years to the creator, so the earth was made in sixth thousand years, the seventh is his rest day not from exhaustion but preparing for the completion of the seventh. Like Miltons poetical works "Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained"
                  Who said evolution is a fact? just because a few weird skulls have been found does not mean that evolution existed. There is a great cover up about mans history and the elite of this world wish to keep it that way. The bible explains that a species once walked this earth, who were called the Nephilim. They were hybrid off spring from fallen angel with human women. This union produced giants and malformed types at that. Skeletons of these have been fund even valleys. I believe species can adapt to change but a monkey change to a human is impossible, if this is true why hasn't any other species of monkey over the millions of years show us any form of evolvement perhaps say a word or two? The bible clearly says each kind to its own kind, because humans have a different genetic make up. An ape cant reproduce with a human for this very reason.
                  And do you know what the next jump in evil-oution is suppose to be? That we are now entering the age of Aquarius and we are now evolving to a spiritual level where we will be GODS, so there is no creator we are the Gods amazing lol..

                  1. cascoly profile image59
                    cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    why 1000 and not 1002 or 5212 years per day?  this is just a nonsensical attempt to make the bible agree with reality - but 6000 years is still so far from the1.5 BILLION that it's just laughable



                    ROFLMAO -- all your repsonses, as predicted, are already debunked in my hub referenced earlier

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Any sane thinking mind will know evolution is a fact after understanding the postulates and examining the evidence.



                    That is just conspiracy garbage.



                    Sorry, but there is no evidence for the fantasy of fallen angels and women's offspring of giants, the bible is obviously wrong about that.



                    Monkeys did not evolve into humans, that is nonsense. Monkeys and humans shared a common ancestor.



                    Sorry, but humans and chimps share 99% DNA. The bible is wrong again.



                    Gibberish.

  6. Jerry Hulse profile image78
    Jerry Hulseposted 4 years ago

    Yes, but remember that they asked his blood be upon them and their children which history shows to be a people that were scattered all over the world but they are the one people that has never lost their identity but what about the Roman leader that stated "Truly this was the son of God"?

  7. bettybarnesb profile image60
    bettybarnesbposted 4 years ago

    I believe if they repented, God forgive them because in Jesus' final words on the Cross, He is quoted as saying, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Christ put them in position to be forgiven by the Father. On ther slip side, it is so very important that we too practice forgiveness of those who hurt or bring harm to us. This blesses me because I am not perfect and each day of my life I need the forgiveness of God. If Christ can forgive those who burtially tortured Him, surely God give us power to forgive one another.

    Be Blessed...

    1. Shikinah profile image60
      Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      bettybarnesb that was very beautifully said :-)

  8. kathleenkat profile image89
    kathleenkatposted 4 years ago

    Who knows? The ascension of anyone to Heaven, if it exists, is undocumented. Not to mention, this particular instance is over 2000 years ago.

    Though I suppose, apparently, if you ask forgiveness, you can get into Heaven. They may have asked forgiveness.

  9. paradigmsearch profile image92
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    On the first part of the journey,
    I was looking at all the life...

  10. Shikinah profile image60
    Shikinahposted 4 years ago

    Riddle666

    How do you know what fallen angels or demons do...The bible says we have a battle not with flesh and blood but with the principalities of the air..the spirit forces which control the world.

    1. 0
      riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Because there are no angels or demons except in stories. The bible made so many mistakes, so? Bible is not a history book it is a collection of stories to educate morals to the society of that time. There were stories about vampires in my place, there were vampire sitings a hundred years before and people really believed vampires were real, till they got electricity and drugs. Now they recognize what the stories were-a myth.

      1. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well that's your opinion but I'm speaking from experience and have even heard of experiences from other people. So what about poltergeists, Ufo's and other things which do not seem of this earth, are these all contrived by mental people? The bible says the best thing the devil has done is make people believe he doesn't exist.. And it's worrying that so many are really deluded to the real truth and cannot see how the changes which are taking place.

        1. 0
          riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I never said mental people, but if you say so regarding my mention of psychiatrist I want you to know that that has nothing to do with anybody being mental. To be a rape victim is a horrible situation, so a professional help is always good to cope with such a stress situation.
          Now, one does not need to be mental to hallucinate. We are humans, we try to put things into a pattern so that we can make a meaning out of a situation. When our mind do tricks on us to familiarize the most unfamiliar situations and try connecting non connected events we see things which we haven't seen and believe we really saw it. So experience has no value, it is a subjective feeling based on our rearing, brain structure and the environment we were brought up and we are currently in.

        2. cascoly profile image59
          cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          true, there are many unexplained phenomena, but a resort to the supernatural is unnecessary in many of them -- UFOs, sasquatch, yeti, possibly even some psychic powers would not defy scientific laws - they're just extremely unlikely given our current evidence

          ghosts, fairies and gods however would completely toss out science, so before accepting their existence something more is required thana 2000 year old fairy tale

        3. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes. smile

      2. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Riddle 666,
        just out of curiosity why 666?
        I'm not talking about eating pork..I'm talking about satanic rituals etc.. that which does physical and mental harm to an individual.

        1. 0
          riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh I only wanted riddle, but that was unavailable, so I just took the available catchy number.
          Rituals are also varying, what I do is divine and what my enemy does is satanic. A ritual by itself doesn't cause harm, it is the mind set of those who participate that does harm.

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's quite straight forward, there are satanic lodges which practice human sacrifice and satanic ritual abuse in the name of lucifer. We have the United Nations who have a ritual prayer room, and follow religious instructions from the Lucis trust formally known as the lucifer trust.. How comes those who rule the world believe in the one who the Bible says is the God of this world if it is just some fairy tale?

            1. 0
              riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There are a group of aborigines on the Andaman island of India called Jarawas who still kill and eat humans if they get one, without the help of any Lucifer.
              I do not know whether what you say about the lodges or UN true. If true about the lodges, if they does that either the law is not working or they are mentally deranged persons. Regarding UN, the people on top who does that might be as religious as you are. Just because the Jews(and their bible) condemn Lucifer, does not make him evil. Jews always condemned their enemies and their gods and painted them in the worst possible way. The term Lucifer means light bearer and probably one among the gods of pagans. Christians when possible killed pagans and are demonising them even now, a probable reason why it's worshippers do not want to publicize themselves.

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ignorance is completely different to those who live in the so called civilised world. You yourself said lucifer is the "light bearer" and believe perhaps he wasn't evil. Funny enough the UN also worship the Matraiya the Light Bearer, the one  Yeshuah condemned, and said to the Jews "you are like your father lucifer/devil". The thing is the zionist are also waiting for this light bearer. So for someone who is merely a fairy tale from a fictional book, he has quite a huge following.

                1. 0
                  riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What I said is the name 'Lucifer'means light bearer and in all probability a pagan god, hence the condemnation by Jews. Jews and Christians are always calling their rivals devil.
                  As another fairytale 'Jesus' has more followers than anyone in history, it is no wonder that a pagan mythical god also has some followers. The pagans are more decent group of people to condemn their enemies as devils, if not, for them your Yahweh who killed humans in flood certainly would be devil.

            2. getitrite profile image82
              getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do you have objective evidence to prove THE DEVIL existence?  If so, let's see it.  If not, your statement lacks any REAL meaning at all.

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                For the fact that so many worship him, even those that control your fate what more proof do you need.

                1. getitrite profile image82
                  getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Instead of responding with, what I consider, simple nonsense, why don't you show some REAL evidence?  By your logic, many leaders can begin to worship Rumpelstiltskin...hence, suddenly, Rumpelstiltskin becomes real.

                  All you have as "evidence" is a whimsical, childish fairy tale.

                  1. Shikinah profile image60
                    Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Very silly..

            3. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              the founders of the US most definitely di not believe in the sort of god you describe.  thomas jefferson even made a personal version of the bible in which he cut out all the superstitious malarkey

              i'n sure the united nations may have a ritual prayer room [aka chapel or mediation room], but the rest of your claim is just rightwing conspiracy nonsense [have you dodged any black helicopters lately?]

              again -where's the evidence to support your claim of human sacrifice?

              1. Shikinah profile image60
                Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The early founding fathers were interested in the Bible, but as usual apostasy infiltrates. People like Alice Bailey, Madam Blavatsky, Rothschilds along with Adam Weishaupt and various others fulfilled scripture, known as the "man of lawlessness" would help bring about a new world order along with a united religious order.
                http://youtu.be/QoQ7-PhdXZo

        2. cascoly profile image59
          cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          there you go again - please give evidence that anyone has been harmed by satanuic rituals in any supernatural way

          1. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this
            1. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              ROFL -- i asked for real evidence and you provide a reality talk show????  pathetic

          2. Shikinah profile image60
            Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What you have to understand, is that not many survive to tell their experience.

            1. cascoly profile image59
              cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              how convenient!  satan ate my homework!

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LOL.And, you do know? Notice you just admitted to lying. lol

  11. getitrite profile image82
    getitriteposted 4 years ago

    Symbolically drinking the blood and eating the flesh of a savior is a very disturbing, and savage ritual.

    1. 0
      riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You would never say that, if you were a cannibal. wink

      1. getitrite profile image82
        getitriteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        True!  lol

  12. Renee Abbott profile image85
    Renee Abbottposted 4 years ago

    Most likely they went to the same place others did prior to Jesus. Jesus didn't create heaven. You have had a lot of people died prior to Jesus, and at that time hell didnt exist. Christians created hell.

    Jews dont go to hell, because there is no such thing.

    1. Shikinah profile image60
      Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hell is an unbiblical pagan doctrine embraced and christianised by the Roman Catholic Church in the early centuries of Christianity, and made official when Jerome translated the Bible into Latin in 400 A.D.

      The doctrine of everlasting punishment in hell is founded upon a combination of mistranslations and misinterpretations of the following Hebrew and Greek words.

      Mistranslations of the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades, tartarus and gehenna, to mean hell.
      Mistranslations of the Hebrew word owlam and the Greek words aion and aionios, to mean forever or everlasting when relating to God’s judgement of unbelievers and fallen angels.

  13. Renee Abbott profile image85
    Renee Abbottposted 4 years ago

    Actually Hades in Pagan beliefs is the underworld, and not at all similiar to the beliefs of the Christian Hell.

    1. Shikinah profile image60
      Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      True.. Hades occurs 11 times in the original Greek Manuscripts of the New Testament and it is the direct equivalent of the Hebrew word sheol; thus it also means the grave or the pit. This is how most modern versions of the Bible translate hades.

      Some Bible dictionaries give an added meaning to hades to mean ‘underworld’ or ‘the place or state of departed spirits’. But this meaning has been influenced by pagan Greek mythology and has no biblical basis.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I have done extensive reading of primary sources on the concept of the underworld.  I found what I believe the be the origin of the Christian concept of hell, in an Egyptian myth known as The Am-Tuat.  When I came across it, I was shocked at what I was reading.  Keep in mind, I have never read a book or any literature on this subject.  My observations are my own.  I wrote a hub on this and since it is relevant to the topic, I will share the link.  http://cam8510.hubpages.com/hub/Egyptia … istianity.  It is a long article which I have edited several times, attempting to shorten it.  There are tables which make comparisons between the myth and the biblical references.  As a result of this study, I, who am a former Evangelical Christian, former pastor and former missionary, have renounced my belief in hell.  As far as I am concerned, it is a concept borrowed from Egyptian mythology in its entirety.

        1. Shikinah profile image60
          Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Very interesting, The book the Two Babylons also covers a lot of misconceptions which was derived from Egyptian, Assyrian and Babylonian worship.

          1. cam8510 profile image93
            cam8510posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Here is the site I use for reading primary (translated of course) sources.  http://www.sacred-texts.com/

  14. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 4 years ago

    As a former Evangelical Christian, layman, missionary and pastor, and as a lifelong student of the Bible, I'll take a stab at this.  When Jesus was hanging on the Cross, He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."  Jesus was simply voicing His inner feelings.  The meaning of His words were "Father, be willing to forgive them if they ever repent and ask for salvation in my name."   The fact is that the Bible makes it clear that each person must repent and call on Jesus for salvation.  If anyone involved in Jesus' death, whether Jew or Roman, guard or Governor, Roman citizen or lowly peasant, called on the name of Jesus and repented of their sins, they would be saved and go to heaven.  That is simply the New Testament teaching on the subject.  The alternative to heaven, of course, is hell.  At least that is what the New Testament teaches.  I don't buy the concept of hell any longer.  If one were to visit my profile, it is possible that they might discover something written along the lines of the origin of the concept of hell.  I'm not suggesting you look, but just so you know.

  15. cascoly profile image59
    cascolyposted 4 years ago

    one  of my favorite dialogues is from Waiting for Godot:
    ---------------------------------------------
    VLADIMIR:
    And yet . . . (pause) . . . how is it –this is not boring you I hope– how is it that of the four Evangelists only one speaks of a thief being saved. The four of them were there –or thereabouts– and only one speaks of a thief being saved. (Pause.) Come on, Gogo, return the ball, can't you, once in a way?
    ESTRAGON:
    (with exaggerated enthusiasm). I find this really most extraordinarily interesting.
    VLADIMIR:
    One out of four. Of the other three, two don't mention any thieves at all and the third says that both of them abused him.
    ESTRAGON:
    Who?
    VLADIMIR:
    What?
    ESTRAGON:
    What's all this about? Abused who?
    VLADIMIR:
    The Saviour.
    ESTRAGON:
    Why?
    VLADIMIR:
    Because he wouldn't save them.
    ESTRAGON:
    From hell?
    VLADIMIR:
    Imbecile! From death.
    ESTRAGON:
    I thought you said hell.
    VLADIMIR:
    From death, from death.
    ESTRAGON:
    Well what of it?
    VLADIMIR:
    Then the two of them must have been damned.
    ESTRAGON:
    And why not?
    VLADIMIR:
    But one of the four says that one of the two was saved.
    ESTRAGON:
    Well? They don't agree and that's all there is to it.
    VLADIMIR:
    But all four were there. And only one speaks of a thief being saved. Why believe him rather than the others?
    ESTRAGON:
    Who believes him?
    VLADIMIR:
    Everybody. It's the only version they know.
    ESTRAGON:
    People are bloody ignorant apes.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    ask your friends, believers or not, and you'll get the common answer that at  least 1 thief was saved -- it's an interesting example of how opinions and 'common knowledge' are acquired, regardless of the particular facts involved

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I am not a believer, but to me, the silence of three of the gospels on this point doesn't speak very loudly.  It could be that, after verbally abusing Jesus, the one who was "saved" changed and asked for salvation by saying "Remember me when you get to heaven" (paraphrase).

      1. 0
        riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Matthew 27:44 In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

        If one asked,  only Luke heard that, and Luke was not a disciple of Jesus.

  16. Shikinah profile image60
    Shikinahposted 4 years ago

    The bible though written by imperfect man was borne along inspired by Holy Spirit.
    It took 1,500 years to complete, written by over 40 authors and comprises of 66 books.
    Written by kings, fishermen, lawyers, doctors, shepherds and the like, yet all have one theme, it provides guidance, wisdom, our purpose and the sacred secret to everlasting life. The church has fought to keep the bible in latin, burning martyrs at the stake. It is the most widely distributed book in the 
    world. Can that be said of anything else in existence?

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Anyone could go out and compile a text made up of writings of various people.  By careful selection and editing the complete text could unified in terms of viewpoint.  Such a work could easily be handed from generation to generation so that more could be added.  The biblical writers had the advantage of having a single culture from which to gather their writings.  This added to consistency.  When the New Testament picked up where the Hebrew writings left off, there was a distinct change in style, types of literature and content.  The whole thing got the final once over when the Synod of Hippo consolidated both Old and New Testaments for the first time.  The making of the Bible has only the fingerprints of man on it, in my opinion.

      1. Shikinah profile image60
        Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If anyone could, why haven't they? So I guess your an apostate now?

    2. Jerry Hulse profile image78
      Jerry Hulseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I like this and although written on three continents by different writers at different intervals of history, the amazing thing is that they all agreed in their writings. Can this be said of other historical archives?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Guess you have not read this book then? Hilarious how few have.

      2. cascoly profile image59
        cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ???? what are you talking about? even in the highly subjective & political selection today called the bible there are major historical errors, and disagreements -- starting with genesis, eg, where 2 completely different creation myths are jumbled together.  the bible may be many things, but historically accurate and internally consistent are not on the llist

        1. Shikinah profile image60
          Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible is advanced in many things, the bible said the earth was round and hung upon nothing while the rest of the world thought it was flat..if they read it they would have saved them selves alot of sailing around lol.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Where it sez this?

            1. Shikinah profile image60
              Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ah - another Liar for Jesus who has not read the bible. lol

                1. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. His daughter was reading a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went look ing for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities. Maury used the Bible as a guide to scientific discovery. If only more would use the Bible as a guide in their personal lives!

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ah - you again! How many troll personas do you have?

                    I think we have enough self righteous ass holes myself. wink

                  2. cascoly profile image59
                    cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    nonsense - Humboldt had already discovered the ocean currents named after him, and sailors & traders had been using such currents for hundreds of years.  so Maury didnt need the bible to show him anything - he just had to apply REAL science and advanced our knowledge.  Maury didnt 'discover' the currents, he used existing records and logs to map the currents that people already knew existed.   

                    yet another example of misquoting the bible's vague phrases while ignoring reality

              2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                With respect none of those verses suggest a heliocentric spherical Earth. Imagine a flat disc world with the heavens stretched over as a dome, and the sun disappearing over the horizon to traverse the underside of the disc at night; and those verses support this view.

                1. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Read this for Biblical explanation
                  www.crivoice.org/circle.html

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Interesting that you didn't even read your own link.

                    The last line sums it up.

                    "So, the "circle" of Isaiah 40:22 refers to the horizon of the earth, which is very obviously perceived as a circle since it can be seen in 360º from most anywhere on earth. In Ancient Near Eastern conceptions, this circle would refer to the flat earth disk, not to a sphere."

              3. cascoly profile image59
                cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                why would the ancient greeks measure the CIRCUMFERENCE of the world if they thought it was flat?  flat earth only became common after the church amd its bible took over the Roman Empire!

                and there are just as many bible quotes that indicate the earth is flat - like yyour quotes, they're all vague.

                1. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Job was an oriental and he wrote about the Earth not being flat long before Roman or greek empire or before the church. If I was to look up at the moon I would describe it as round or circular but definitely not flat, so why would those who wrote the bible describe the earth any different.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Correct. If you didn't know that the moon was in fact a sphere you might describe it as being round. The same holds true of the people who wrote the bible, they didn't know the earth was a sphere so they described it as being round. Now, if the scripture was inspired or written by God the correct words would have been used. This is just one more indication that the bible was written by bible with no knowledge other then the knowledge of their time.

              4. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                None of those verses state the earth is round. Why are you lying about that?

                1. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the CIRCLE of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;

                  Job 26:10 He has inscribed a CIRCLE on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.

                  Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a secret place to Him, And He doth not see;' And the CIRCLE of the heavens He walketh habitually,

                  Prov 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a CIRCLE on the face of the deep, 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth . .

                  Try reading the scripture that's a good start :-)

                  1. cascoly profile image59
                    cascolyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    IT'S READING SCRIPTURE THAT BLOWS HOLES IN YOUR STATEMENTS!

                    you're just getting in deeper -- even the ancients knew the difference between A CIRCLE AND A SPHERE.  A CIRCLE is FLAT and has boundaries.  you CANNOT inscribe or draw a sphere on a surface!  your quotes give support to the flat earth theory!

                  2. 0
                    riddle666posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    A circle is not a sphere.

                  3. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    All that states is that the CIRCLE is a circular area of land and the tent covers that area.



                    Again, a circular area of land with a boundary on all sides.



                    That states the CIRCLE of the heavens, not the Earth. Can you not read?



                    Again, that is simply a circular area of land. If one stands in one spot and looks out towards the horizon on all sides, they have created a circular area of land.

                    Absolutely none of that describes a spherical earth, so you can stop lying about it.

                2. Shikinah profile image60
                  Shikinahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  May I just say as a practicing christian it is a sin to lie, as a lie is what got us in a mess in the first place. There's no need to lie when you have the word of God, as it speaks for it self.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, why are you compelled to continue lying about it?

  17. tussin profile image61
    tussinposted 4 years ago

    This thread is still going?  lol, I win.

  18. recgamer45 profile image61
    recgamer45posted 4 years ago

    Luke 17:1

    Not sure if I can expound on that right now, but it maybe someone else would?

  19. Benjamin777 profile image61
    Benjamin777posted 4 years ago

    No way to know for sure if the people who carried out the crucifixion wound up in Heaven, but according to scripture, it is possible, and maybe even likely for some of them. 

    Luke 23:34 says:    And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments

    Mark 15:39 says:   And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he breathed his last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!” 

    Looks like the "bad guys"  were given two precious gifts by Christ himself:  Forgiveness and Faith.

  20. safiq ali patel profile image70
    safiq ali patelposted 4 years ago

    I believe that those who played a part in the crucifixion of Jesus will one day have to stand trial in the courts of the holy sit of New Jerusalem and they will then be sentenced too from there by almighty god with Jesus at this side.

 
working