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The belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved!

  1. ElSeductor profile image59
    ElSeductorposted 4 years ago

    Why must religious people impose their beliefs on others?  Why can't religious people keep religion out of politics?  Why must Muslims kill others over their beliefs?  Why can't Christians keep their beliefs out of politics and out of schools?

    1. kess profile image61
      kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The same reason you did not keep that thought to yourself.

      1. janesix profile image60
        janesixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        yep

      2. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol

      3. ElSeductor profile image59
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Kess,

        I am not going to launch missles at you for saying what you just said. 

        R

      4. ElSeductor profile image59
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Kess,

        If a person is beating you over the head, are you not going to fight back for fear that he might say, "I'm only hitting you because you are hitting me."  Your comment makes absolutely no sense in this context.  Religion is the offense.  I am playing defense.

        R

      5. Peanutritious profile image81
        Peanutritiousposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why should the op keep those thoughts to himself? It's a valid question. You haven't answered it either. Why is that?

      6. adrianroc profile image80
        adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        lol

      7. moneymindit profile image72
        moneyminditposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        His thoughts are not causing strife and wars.  That is the difference.

        MM

    2. twosheds1 profile image61
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      In other news, the sky is blue and puppies are cute.

      Christians can't keep their beliefs out of schools because they know that if they can infect minds at an early age, they can have a person for life.

      1. ThompsonPen profile image83
        ThompsonPenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's true. Puppies are pretty cute

      2. Peanutritious profile image81
        Peanutritiousposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So true. The majority of religious people I know were hoodwinked at an early age or have learning difficulties. Easily pliable and not prone to questioning.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          That's a very nice way to say gullible.

    3. HattieMattieMae profile image70
      HattieMattieMaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Most of the time people don't know how to let it go, move on, and let others be who they are. They think they need to save you, fix you, change you, and you should be molded into their version of who they believe you should be in society. If you don't fit into their social norm, you are an outcast, misfit, and crazy. So of course they must try to convert to you their system of belief because they think they need too! Perhaps really the lesson they need to learn themselves in most cases.

      1. ElSeductor profile image59
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        HattieMattieMae,

        Thank you for your intelligent comment.  smile

        Ron

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        know what that feels like, living life as an artist

        1. HattieMattieMae profile image70
          HattieMattieMaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, perhaps life is an art, art is life! Art is music, which music is life! So of course through the eyes of art we always see truth! smile

    4. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Wow, so much to work with...

      First of all, saying that, throughout history, religion (and the rest of your statement makes it clear you are singling out Christianity) has created more problems than it has solved is completely subjective. This assumes that, all other things being equal, there would have been some kind of peaceful, non-religious alternative which would have filled the vacuum. I've as yet to see any history or any rational interpretation thereof that can support such a supposition.

      Second of all, forcing religion out of schools (any kind of religion) does not ipso facto create a more intelligent and self-reliant populace. Schools in communist countries were not exactly known for churning out free-thinking intellectuals. The quality of education in "hard subjects" may have been better, worse or about the same, but their record of turning out people who bucked the system and thought for themselves was not better than ours.

      Third of all, if Christianity is true (I'm talking about basic Christian principals, that Jesus lived, that He died and rose again on the third day) then shutting it out of schools may make some people feel better, but it's not a service to anybody.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Less the 31% of Denmark's population believe in God, while it's less the 23% Sweden however, Denmark and Sweden rank among the most well-developed, wealthiest, most democratic, most free, most entrepreneurial, least corrupt, least violent, most peaceful, healthiest, happiest, most egalitarian, best educated, most charitable, and most environmentally compassionate societies in the entire world.

        Clearly, religion is not required to sustain healthy, happy, and moral societies.

        1. Chris Neal profile image83
          Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Uh huh. Did I say that? What religion is required for is to sustain a healthy relationship with God.

          Just out of curiosity, what are the statistics for North Korea, Communist China and Viet Nam?

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            North Korea, Communist China and Viet Nam is forced and is not a fair comparison. How would force Catholicism work?

            This is what you said and I was just clarifying it for you incase you didn't know about Sweden and Denmark. I think you make be able to throw Norway and Finland in that mix as well.

            "This assumes that, all other things being equal, there would have been some kind of peaceful, non-religious alternative which would have filled the vacuum. I've as yet to see any history or any rational interpretation thereof that can support such a supposition."

            1. Chris Neal profile image83
              Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yet Sweden and Denmark both have extremely violent histories pre-Christianity, even to some extent post-Christianity. So my point holds, because I was discussing the past (although I should probably have been more clear on that point.)

              The atheist countries are not forced either, because they are countries where the majority of people actively don't believe in deities yet they are not happy societies.

              Forced conversion of any kind usually produces results different from what the converting parties envision, I've never argued that. You want to say that atrocities were committed in the name of religion and I will be the first in line to agree. The situations are rarely as black and white as so many on both sides want to paint  them, but the fact still stands. It doesn't change my point. The history of humanity in general, including many places that are held to be superior for one reason or another, contain violence, degradation and depravity.

              Cheery thought at this festive time of the year, eh?

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm lost at your point. Are you suggesting Christianity changed violent societies into peaceful ones?

                1. Chris Neal profile image83
                  Chris Nealposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Although history rarely works in the Point-A-to-Point-B linear fashion that many people would like it to, the fact is that Christianity has helped calm some societies down.

                  There's a reason why so many European countries had popular political parties with names like "Christian Democrat."

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Secularism is what has calmed things down a bit. Whenever a nation is under the control of any religion or religious party they historically never have been are still not today largely peaceful. Europe during the middle ages up until recently when they have become more secular was not a peaceful place to be. The middle east is still war like because they are ruled by religious parties and laws. The US even with it's secular society is still largely thought as a Christian nation and they are seen as anything but peaceful.

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah - the Christian Socialist Party was a blast. lol

    5. wba108@yahoo.com profile image86
      wba108@yahoo.composted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You could also say living causes more problems than it solves!

      1. adrianroc profile image80
        adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        #real talk-The Bible promotes peace, not war. It is us humans that act, not the religion itself.

        1. moneymindit profile image72
          moneyminditposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          adrianroc,

          Just like when a snake bites somebody.  It isn't the snake that killed the person, it is the venom.

          MM

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Best analogy I've heard to date.

          2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
            oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That idea breaks down unfortunately as humans have to go against a peaceful teaching to act out something that is opposite.  (If speaking about Christs teachings for example, if speaking about Christianity). A snake's venom is working in a way it was designed to work, not giving an opposite result of what it was intended.   So the point the poster made is still a valid point as far as I can see.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So when Jesus said he came to cause division he was lying? wink

              1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I was simply talking about how the example given was invalid and why.   Jesus showed how by example, there need not be any violence, and took violence himself for it, as did his apostles.  He scolded the time someone did bring out a sword.  This backs up the point trying to be rebutted with the snake comment.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  "there need not be any violence, and took violence himself for it"

                  Those two phrases seem quite at odds with each other.  Pacifism is a wonderful thing...until you run into someone that is not.  At that point it breaks down rather quickly, depending totally on what the other party wants.

                2. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  All the judgement talk in Revelation sounds quite violent to me. Having people endure a place like Hell (if it's the eternal torment myth instead of the less evil an-eternal-fiery-pit-that-extinguishes-a-soul-all-together myth) sounds quite violent to me.

    6. Chris Neal profile image83
      Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You can't have a vacuum. Since I'm not a Muslim, I can't really speak to that. I've read a lot about it, but I'm no expert.

      But as a Christian, I will tell you that kids pick up the message one way or the other. Whatever people who believe that religion should be kept out of school, whatever they think will happen, the truth is that if God is not discussed in school then the kids get the message. They think God should be kept out of life, period, which is normal when you're a rebellious teenager anyway. And it was specifically designed that way by many people.

      But seriously, why should Christians keep their beliefs out of school? Because it makes non-Christians uncomfortable? But then the Christians have to put up with having their beliefs demeaned. So in the end, the non-Christians become guilty of the exact thing they complain about the Christians for, forcing someone else to abide by their beliefs.

      Which means that ultimately, I suppose, might makes right, eh?

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        But seriously, why should Christians keep their beliefs out of school?

        But seriously, why should Muslims, pagans, satanists, buddhists, atheists or any other belief system keep their beliefs out of school?

        Maybe, just maybe, because any time a government has been ruled by a religious organization it has turned into a living hell for the citizenry.  Maybe because "belief" does not equate with "knowledge".  Maybe because the US constitution forbids government endorsement of ANY religion, not just all those not Christian.  Maybe because the most common moral found throughout the world (and supported by the Christian god) says not to.

        Is that sufficient or do you need more reasons?

    7. 0
      Lybrahposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      We're not trying to impose anything on anyone.  We're simply just trying to spread the good news of Jesus so that one may be saved.  Muslims are deceived and crazy.

      1. moneymindit profile image72
        moneyminditposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Lybrah,

        That is not all you are doing.  You are affecting laws.

        MM

    8. blcurry profile image61
      blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think it's the belief IN God. I think it's the belief that God doesn't exist.  If everyone one followed the 2 most important commandments, 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, mind, and strength and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself all the problems would cease.  It's not GOD who's the problem.  It's disobedient men and women who blatantly reject His love, counsel and provision.  Mix in a few evil entities that fuel the fires of disobedient men and let's all blame God.....to me that's just silly.....

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        "disobedient" refers to a willfully bad shark swimming in the sea of joy. If only he could be like a playful smiling dolphin instead.

        1. blcurry profile image61
          blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          God doesn't desire obedience as in the mentality of a SLAVE, but obedience from the mentality of a SON.  (or daughter)

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I see, willing obedience with love and devotion. I agree.

      2. adrianroc profile image80
        adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That is so true!

        1. jonnycomelately profile image84
          jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Then you are free to regard me as the most sinful person in the world and expect to see me sometime in Purgatory, then in the Dungeon somewhere, hopefully enjoying myself.

          I have no problem with you having your belief(s).  My problem is in your assumption that there IS a "god" that demands my obedience and that you feel you can load that assumption onto MY shoulders.

          You have your choices, I have mine.

      3. moneymindit profile image72
        moneyminditposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        blcurry,

        You are presuming that God exists.

        MM

    9. DazeN808 profile image59
      DazeN808posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Everyone has a free of speech regardless of what your religion is. Be open to everyone's opinion regardless of what it is. That is what makes this world and culture unique. Who ever you believe in would not have created such a diverse crowd. If we were all of the same thing, we might as well be a bunch of robots.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Discussion is good.
        Argumentation isn't.

      2. blcurry profile image61
        blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Although everyone's opinion isn't truth.  What is truth?  For some, it's a matter of opinion!  hahahaha!  But for other's it's a matter of FAITH.  Now there are many faiths, but in my opinion, for me personally, my truth, is THE truth, JESUS. God created everything through His WORD. Diversity shows the creator's creativity.  That's why we have one race, the HUMAN race, with various ethnicities.  That's why green grass grows out of brown dirt, that's why a yellow and black bumble bee with clear wings can fly to a red flower, take white pollen and make golden honey, that's why white clouds float in a blue sky under a yellow sun that hangs in black space. God, our creator is creative. There's a novel thought.........IMHO, of course.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, we have different ethnicities because of evolution. We evolve or adapt to a new environment.

          1. blcurry profile image61
            blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly.. And it was all part of the grand design to show case God's intelligence, ingenuity and creativity.  And just think: Man is created in His image and likeness!   WOW.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Please tell me where this information came from that God made evolution to show case his intelligence, ingenuity and creativity. Did I miss the evolution section of the bible?

              What is God's image and likeness? Isn't he all powerful and all knowing and everywhere always and immortal? We are none of those things. A loving God would help us become like him, just as a loving parent does. He wouldn't be up there bragging about how smart and creative he is and asking for praise. I think you've been misguided.

              1. blcurry profile image61
                blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That sir is your OPINION and you are more than welcome to it....  But I believe that YOU sir are the one who is "misguided".  Your questions are topics for an entirely different discussion which I would be happy to discuss with you at a later time.  Thanks for your contribution!

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I asked questions to get clarifications about statements you made. You stated that God made evolution to show his intelligence among other things. Where did you get this information from?

                  You stated we are made in God's image. I asked how can this be when we are nothing like him?

                  Please answer my question so we can move on.

                  1. blcurry profile image61
                    blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You have clearly taken what I said completely out of context.  Allow me to clarify:  Adaptation, not evolution is God's grand design. Men did not evolve from monkeys or all monkeys would be men.  As for the rest of your complaint, since you insist, here goes a crash course in your education:
                    Genesis: 1:26-28 reads,

                    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

                    Genesis 5:1,

                    This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

                    Psalms 17:15,

                    As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness.

                    Psalms 8:3-8,

                    When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
                    The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
                    4 What is man that You are mindful of him,
                    And the son of man that You visit him?
                    5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,[b]
                    And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
                    6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
                    You have put all things under his feet,
                    7 All sheep and oxen—
                    Even the beasts of the field,
                    8 The birds of the air,
                    And the fish of the sea
                    That pass through the paths of the seas.

                    Matthew 28:18-20,

                    18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

                    Acts 2: 38

                    Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

                    Colossians 3;3

                    For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

                    Ephesians 1:15-23

                    15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding[c] being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

                    22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
                    Conclusion:
                    Man is the image and likeness of God.  We have an image, we are self aware, we are conscious, and much more.  Our dominion was lost when Adam disobeyed the commandment, the only commandment God gave him; not to eat from a certain tree.  Adam was more focused on the one tree he didn't have instead of all of the trees he had.  Therefore, he lost his dominion.  Jesus came, lived a righteous and sinless life, and then He went to the cross, making it possible for us, men, to regain our likeness of God and our dominion, through faith in Him and his sacrifice.

                    More so:

                    John 3:16 says,

                    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

                    Romans 5:13-15
                    13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

                    Romans 5:16-18

                    16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

                    18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

                    Romans 8:18-24
                    18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

                    1 John 3:2

                    Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

                    1 Corinthians 1:18-30

                    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

                    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
                    And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
                    20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

                    Glory Only in the Lord

                    26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

                    1 Corinthians 15:49

                    And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

                    1 Corinthians 2:16

                    For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

                    2 Corinthians 4:1-6

                    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

                    Finally,
                    "The more we EVOLVE into the divine person we are created to be the past DISSOLVES. The more we EVOLVE the wondering who we are is SOLVED. The REVOLUTION of the earth is God's message on the significance of EVOLUTION. Empowerment Thought: Resolve what's really important i.e. to EVOLVE. If you do, you will discover limitless possibilities are within YOU. Peace & Love"
                    -J. D. W.

                    e·volve 
                    /iˈvälv/
                    Verb
                    Develop gradually, esp. from a simple to a more complex form.
                    (with reference to an organism or biological feature) Develop over successive generations, esp. as a result of natural selection.
                    Synonyms
                    develop - expand - unfold

                    Job 33: 29-30

                    29 “Behold, God works all these things,
                    Twice, in fact, three times with a man,
                    30 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
                    That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

                    Be Blessed!

          2. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Rad

            Also, why would one think that making us into different ethnicities is an intelligent design?  It has been the motivation for countless abuses, deaths, and genocides.  Just look at what happened to the Native Americans, and African slaves, and the ethnic cleansing that has taken place in many societies.

            It seems that some people are completely mindless when it comes to giving praise to their silly Gods, not even recognizing that this would be the creation of a blood thirsty psychopath...making us into different ethnicities, just so we will have a convenient reason to slaughter each other.

            1. blcurry profile image61
              blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              "It seems that some people are completely mindless"  Correct.  What God has created and designed for good Satan has conspired with man to make it all seem bad.   But afterall, isn't that his job?  Deception is his greatest weapon and men still chose to believe the lie.  He's the Father of Lies and there is no truth in him. Now there's a discussion...

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Do you think God created Satan in his image as well? If God is all knowing and all powerful why does he let Satan be so mean to those he loves?

                1. blcurry profile image61
                  blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Now you're being silly......The bible says MAN was created in God's image.  As for Satan Ezekiel 28 says,

                  "“You were the seal of perfection,
                  Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
                  13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
                  Every precious stone was your covering:
                  The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
                  Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
                  Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
                  The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
                  Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
                  14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
                  I established you;
                  You were on the holy mountain of God;
                  You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
                  15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
                  Till iniquity was found in you."

                  Isaiah 14: 12-15

                  “How you are fallen from heaven,
                  O Lucifer,[b] son of the morning!
                  How you are cut down to the ground,
                  You who weakened the nations!
                  13 For you have said in your heart:
                  ‘I will ascend into heaven,
                  I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
                  I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
                  On the farthest sides of the north;
                  14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
                  I will be like the Most High.’
                  15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
                  To the lowest depths of the Pit.

                  Man, through Jesus Christ, now has authority and power over satan, but man has to choose it for  himself.  God is a just God, even unfortunately with satan, but his end is assured.....it's easy for satan to cooberate with man in his fallen state because man, just like satan was as shown above is only concerned about me. me, me, my my, my, i, i ,i.....InIquIty...."But God.... who is rich in mercy......"  Angels were created specifically to serve God. Although they had the ability to choose, the didn't have the right.  Man was created with the ability and the right to choose.

                  John 3:5

                  Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Again, you didn't answer my question.
                    If God is all knowing and all powerful why does he let Satan be so mean to those he loves?

              2. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I suppose you mean those people who keep posting endless, meaningless, mindless scripture when others are trying to have a sensible debate.

                 

                I suppose you have irrefutable proof of a being called Satan.  I hope you don't think that everyone is going to accept your implication that the bible is a credible source.  So, please, let's see your proof.

                 

                Please provide proof, or your assertions are meaningless drivel.  Thanks

                1. blcurry profile image61
                  blcurryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I have already provided more than ample proof from the most reliable source on earth, the Word of God....To continue this debate with you and the others is pointless.  I'd only be casting pearls........I hope you guys make use of all the wonderful information of the posts I have left because therein lie your answers!

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Typical!
                    1.  Believer comes into forum, asserting outlandish, whimsical claims

                    2. Believer is asked to validate claims

                    3. Believer has ZERO evidence to corroborate claims, and asks that the logical opposition just believe him on faith

                    4.  Logical opposition informs believer that this is absurd...and rightfully so

                    5. Believer becomes angry, and accuses the opposition of being the perpetrator of the conflict, when in fact it is him

              3. adrianroc profile image80
                adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Excellent comment, I appreciate your views, belief and faith. Stay strong my friend. God is with you.

      3. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        intelligent.

    10. 61
      Wilbart26posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I think the title "The belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved!"  should be re-written. I am a believer and it did not caused me anything, and trouble. I guess we should not talk about GOD, but we should talk or argue about religion. Every religion has it's own beliefs and own set of leaders, that is why there's always trouble in the community, a never ending debate that leads to nothing but chaos and hatred. It's not God or Allah who told them to kill others, but their leaders. Manipulative people who only do nothing but sit in one chair playing with the minds of the people that can easily be poisoned by words that can cause huge problems but comfort for them "the manipulators".

      The word God, is not responsible for man's actions. God cannot be seen, cannot be heard, but others still believes in, including me. We are the ones responsible for what we are doing in this planet.  Whether the word God is true or not, or just a word to define the existence of the Supreme Being or GAUTU (Great Architect of the Universe). Still there's no point for us humans to tell that we create mistakes and chaos here on Earth because of God.

      The humans are responsible for such actions, the only hard part here is that, lots of us tend to use the word God for our self satisfaction even if the price is the freedom and happiness of other people. When will we learn?

      Religious leaders always teaches their followers of things that even them cannot do. They try to impose things that will later limit a person from it's freedom/freewill. They always teach things that they think is good but in reality, it will just do nothing but problems. They teach and teach and teach but fail.

      It's not God who's responsible in the participation of religious leaders in the politics, but it's the leader themselves. They have high prides, hunger for power/manipulation, and selfish intents. God did not want those things for us to do. Have you heard God, talk to you about cheating your way to the examinations? Did God told people to vote Obama to be the President of the United States? Did Allah told the Pakistanis to bombard Israel? or Did God even operates the plain with an atomic bomb that destroyed the Japanese Empire? Did God move your hands to eat your foods? Or Did God move your body to have sexual activities with others?

      So, Why include the word God in all of this problem? I am a believer but I am not a religious human being. Both are different in many ways and faith is different to. People needs to become a free thinker in order for us to prosper and become successful in life. We need to learn how to critically think in order for us to know what to do and which is better or best to do with our lives and to others. I never listen to religious people, I only listen to myself and to people that I think has a higher level of maturity than others.

      Cause if we listen to those religious manipulators, nothing will happen, we will just be stagnant and we will have no chance or reaching our goals in life. The separation of religion and state should really be practiced. I guess, the freemasons are smart enough to have that in USA. Even in our country, there is a separation of Church and State, however, it's just being ignored since this is a religious country, and it's too late for us free thinkers to fight for it because majority here are already poisoned and manipulated by those religious leaders. But at least, our government is trying to do their best to make a gap between the two. Cause if the whole system will be infected by religion, it will fall down. I just wish, God go down here and be the one to teach us, at least it's a real teaching from a real God, not from those people who uses him and the teachings (teaching false meanings of whatever is written and misleading people to be a puppet of their leadership) just to stay on top! There are few religious leaders and people who are doing the right thing, but until when? And how few are there left? I just wish they don't get extinct.

      So... It's not God, but it's humans okay? Thanks for its wonderful topic, it caught my attention and it gave my brain a little bit of exercise.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image84
        jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        ++  Wise words.

      2. 0
        Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This is a very profound statement and one I can agree with

      3. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I suggest you read the topic before defending your beliefs. No one is suggesting god is to blame for anything.

        The topic is - "The belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved!"

        Operative word being belief in god.

        Without a belief in god - there would be no religion. As we know - and you agree - man made religion is the problem. Therefore the belief in a god causes problems, because once you believe in a god, you are open to some one telling you what god wants you to do. wink

        1. 61
          Wilbart26posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I suggest you re-read the topic again.... Isn't it blaming? The fact that "The belief in God has caused more problems" is written there, there is already a blaming. What do you think we should call that statement if it isn't blaming? We are believing in God, then.... It causes problem.... Then, who is to blame? Even if we blame ourselves, human, God still has a part in this topic, because God is included here, who's the reason of the belief? Who we do believe in, it's God right? Therefore, the topic directly showed that it's because of God, that we are believing in, that's why there are problems here in the world. Why don't we just state religion instead of the word God...

          By the way, I would like to clarify some things, I have faith in God and I believe that the existence of God is true, however, I do not follow, faith is very different with follow, aside from the spelling, both have different deep meanings. God is not telling me what to do since I have a freewill. Religion is the one dictating the people, not God. I suggest you read over again what I  had written there one by one word by word and go deeper... Better think out of the box....

          What we are having here right now is a very good example of the real problem in religion, religious leaders and missionaries spread the word of the bible literally and misleadingly without knowing it's true and obscure meanings... Go deeper, that's what we must do.

          "Without a belief in God, there would be no religion?" Are you sure? Religion is created by human beings not by God, we are created by God without those words, factions, guilds, nations, religions and etc... God did not told us to divide ourselves and kill each other. The words "I beleive in God" doesn't mean that I needed to follow "religion" nor believe in religion. The word and faction created by people is not by the will of God. We are created with the purpose of living and taking care of this world and do our own will, not to divide and separate ourselves among others and kill each other. God is a creator and not a dictator, God is singular not plural just like different religion.

          If we will only focus in the word God, without thinking any religion or faction just God, do you think there would be problems and chaos?

          Imagine, that all people only believe in one God, not religion, do you think there would be chaos and unending debate?

          I suggest you read again my post and go deeply... I rest my case smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry - can you read English? All I get from your post is a desperate need to defend your irrational belief and ignore the chaos it causes.

            We are not created by a god and all the other nonsense you spouted. Where do you get all this? I don't think there is such a thing as god - so when you tell me you know what this god wants or does not want - really, you are making the point the OP made.

            Try thinking for yourself instead of telling me what I was created for. You don't speak for a god. That is your religion speaking that comes from an irrational belief in a god. And you know there is only one god apparently - how do you do that?  plus you apparently know the true meaning of the bible. Wow. Try going deeper yourself. See reality for real instead of speaking on behalf of this god that doesn't exist. Try speaking for yourself instead - thanks.

            I rest my case.

            1. 61
              Wilbart26posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You still don't get my point, I am just trying to clear things out and I am not defending anyone. Can I read English? Yes, can I understand English? It will depend on how we will perceive each others statement. And how we look on each of the meaning that we have read.

              I don't speak for a God yes, because I am just a human and not a God.  I am speaking for myself because that's what I believe in. The "belief in the existence of God" your just asking me "And you know there is only one god apparently - how do you do that?" Is like this, do you believe in the word love?  Friendship? or Intelligence! Have you seen those, have you touched those? But you feel and believe those words right? They are invisible, but we believe in those words. So, that's the same as believing God.... Can't be seen, can't be touched but can be felt by people who believed in. The existence of something sometimes doesn't need proof, for us to believe in it.

              It's like this, how do you know that we are not created by a supreme being "GOD"? Do you have proof? Have you found the missing link? Or have you seen how the world and the universe were created?

              Don't get mad, I can sense your already heating up... Chill a bit, this will be my last post for this.... If I continue this, I assure you I will not let you win the debate and I am sure you will do the same, and the debate will be unending.  My time is being wasted here, have more important things to do, than to have debate with an individual that's is so close minded and "SUPER INTELLIGENT" that did not even see the things and the true meanings of the statements that I was trying to impose... I just wish you can provide me a proof that God really did not exist. smile Just like what you are asking to some posts and comments in this topic.... Well provide you the proof of the existence of God, once you provide us also the proof  of God did not even exist and the proof of the origin of life and universe....

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry - the burden of proof is yours. You are the one claiming to know that we were created by a god. Where is your proof? Surely the default is that there is no god without any proof? This is why your religion causes so many fights. You make a claim and insist that I offer proof that you are wrong.

                You have been speaking for this god. You specifically told me that you know we are created by a god, you know what we were created for and you know that god is singular:



                How do you know all this? Because this is religion. You speaking for god.

                1. 0
                  Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I called it.. wasn't fast enough to get it out before Mark, but I knew it

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Well done. Of course the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Any believer who makes a claim and then demands some one disprove it is simply demonstrating why this belief causes so many fights. Don't you agree?

              2. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I see where you were going with this, but the response to that will be "The burden of proof is on Christians because they are the ones that believe in it"

          2. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            And which version of God do you think should be the one we force everyone to believe in? The muslim God? The Hindu Gods? The Christian God? If we pick the muslim God the christians are not going to be happy, so we should pick the Christian God, wait the muslims tend to get upset when we even draw a picture of Mohammad, using the Christian God would be like calling Mohammad a fraud. What do we do now? Perhaps John Lennon had it right?

    11. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Many of the Colonial Colleges and schools were founded and built by Christians and Christian Organizations. As well as the one room school houses built years ago all across the United States. Plus most of the Hospitals were founded and still supported by Christians and Christian Organizations. Many  big charities were founded and supported by Christians and Christian Organizations. They did the work. The point would be moot if not for Christian Organizations regarding Schools. Why would you support the abridgment of freedom, speech and expression in politics?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Does that make up for the hundreds of thousands of dead Natives killed by the spread of disease by missionaries?

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Travel is inevitable in the world. Being sick is not a crime. Nor carrying disease without symptoms and unintentionally propagating it. Travelers contract diseases from all sorts of places that didn't originate from their original locations as well. Further, travelers contract diseases from the people they meet and spread that back to their homelands.

          I think Colleges and Schools, Hospitals and Charities is better than "claims of hypothetical non-religious" sources /benefits.  People could actually go to colleges, hospitals, and charities back then as opposed to having to try to find the alleged hypothetical non-religious benefits.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Well dodged. Does it make up for the thousands of Natives stolen from their parents to be bought up as "good Christians."?

            And lest we forget - the primary function of any religious school is to indoctrinate the next generation - is it not?

            1. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I think Christianity and its devotion to Charity, Schools, Colleges and Hospitals is a (historically shown to be true for centuries) is a good thing. I think its a good example to counter what "in some cases" non-religion has given us eg mass murdering atheist dictators.

              1. JMcFarland profile image92
                JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                name one that killed people BECAUSE they were an atheist.

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  The campaign against religion peaked in the 1960s. Beginning in 1967 the Albanian authorities began a violent campaign to try to eliminate religious life in Albania. Despite complaints, even by APL members, all churches, mosques, monasteries, and other religious institutions were either closed down or converted into warehouses, gymnasiums, or workshops by the end of 1967.[31] By May 1967, religious institutions had been forced to relinquish all 2,169 churches, mosques, cloisters, and shrines in Albania, many of which were converted into cultural centers for young people. As the literary monthly Nendori reported the event, the youth had thus "created the first atheist nation in the world."[30]

                  The clergy were publicly vilified and humiliated, their vestments taken and desecrated. More than 200 clerics of various faiths were imprisoned, others were forced to seek work in either industry or agriculture, and some were executed or starved to death. The cloister of the Franciscan order in Shkodër was set on fire, which resulted in the death of four elderly monks.[30]

                  Article 37 of the Albanian Constitution of 1976 stipulated, "The state recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people."

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Albania

                  1. JMcFarland profile image92
                    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    yeah, and how long did the Albanian "atheist regime" last?  less than 10 years or so.  It's the exception to the rule - not the norm.  Interesting, though, that is the ONLY example you can point to.

    12. 0
      Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I definitely see, on a daily basis, more good done by the belief in God than bad. The charity that is done, positive thinking and fellowship that I witness at my church is far more positive than what is represented worldwide on the news.
      I can't speak for what happens overseas or back in time during the crusades, but I think the overall contribution to society by religion is overwhelmingly positive. In all walks of life there are the good, the bad, and the ugly and I can point to negative acts by christians, muslims, buddists, jews, and atheists. If that is the case, then aren't we all at fault, not just those that believe in God? (Which could actually be a point to original sin)
      There will always be those that cherry pick stories to fit their argument, but the fact will always remain that no matter what, we ALL will believe what we choose to believe in the end.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Which goes back to the question of individual behavior and group behavior.

        There are indeed positive acts committed by CHRISTIANS.  However do they outweigh the negatives of CHRISTIANITY?

        Christians do do good work (So do atheists and those of other religions).  Small groups of Christians do good work as well. (So do small groups of atheists and other religions)

        However Christianity as an institution has not been especially positive. It has impeded scientific/social progress.  It has caused wars and persecution.  At times it has done these things to it's own members.

        So does the benefit to individuals outweigh the damage to the whole?

        And that's really the deal-breaker.

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Christianity as an institution founded schools, colleges, charity and hospitals on a massive unrivaled scale.  Just because you cannot fathom that, does not make in untrue.

          1. 0
            Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            As it was pointed out, the institution has done a lot of good in society. It was also pointed out that a lot of bad has been done in the name of that same institution. In that respect, It comes down to individual perspective as to whether the good outweighs the bad or vice versa. Obviously, for a lot of Christians the good outweighs the bad (except for those that believe more out of fear than love of God) otherwise we wouldn't be believers. On the other hand, for a lot of atheists, the bad outweighs the good which is why they stopped believing or never believed

            1. 0
              Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I think people gravitate to whatever they feel will make their lives better. And there are those that feel very passionate about that and want to share what they have learned to help others, which can put some people off. Some people find this in the teachings of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc. to help guide them in this journey. Some might never find it and feel that secular is the way to go. And then there are those that use the belief in others to get what they want.
              I guess my point is that when we make this decision to believe what we believe, in some way we are also choosing not to believe in other things, which is where things get muddied up.  I don’t think that any one is dumb for believing something else; I just think that it fits in their lives. That is where respect comes into play. I have not walked a mile in anyone else’s shoes, so who am I to say they are wrong.  We all have to dance to our own song.

            2. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I do not think it comes down to an individuals perspective. I think It can be objectively analyzed.

              see- history of colonial colleges yale. harvard

              see history of hospitals

              see top 3 charities

              Colleges hospitals and charities. These are undeniable social and educational accomplishments that are unrivaled.

              I think people take it for granted that 400 years of hospitals, colleges and charities just appeared out of no where.

              I like your conversation though Deepes Mind. You are respectful, polite and intelligent and I appreciate it.  I have to take off bbl

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                What I mean by individual perspective is that sometimes it is up to the individual to decide whether the good works outweigh the bad works factor into their own decision whether to believe in God or not.

                These contributions cannot be denied, But on the other hand, neither can the wars that have been started "in the name of God". Nor can the destruction of some of these same institutions in that same name.

                Thanks for the compliment. I try to remain objective when I reply as to stimulate thought and discussion on both sides and to be as respectful as possible so that others can respect me and other posters as well. I try to translate as much as possible so that things aren't as quickly reacted to in a negative manner

        2. 0
          Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          My point was that all walks of life do good and bad, including atheist, therefore it is not the institution, but the person that is evil, but there are some that do evil in the name of whatever vehicle they think will help them accomplish it.

          I feel that a majority of people are good, including atheists. As a whole, on a grass roots daily basis, I feel that religion has vastly done more good than evil, despite what stories are cherry picked from the media because I see it every day.

        3. 0
          Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          And when you say deal breaker, does that mean the world would be better off without religion (I know you are talking about Christianity in the above post, but I assume you are talking about the belief in God, ie all religions)

    13. 0
      Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Wow. I see you guys got an early start. Have we made a decision yet on if the belief in God has caused more problems?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Name me ten problems that a belief in god has solved.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          1. What to do on Sunday mornings?
          2. What to do with witches?
          3. What to eat on Fridays?
          4. What to do with Jews during WW2?
          5. How to protect Gods chosen people in 2013?
          6. What to do with Muslims in 1085
          7. How to stop science from progressing for a thousand years?
          8. How to start a war and feel just in doing so?
          9. How do I knock on every door in the area and tell them what to do and think?
          10 How to get wealthy on the back of the gullible and stupid.

          This is easy. Would you like me to go on.

        2. 0
          Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          1 .Illiteracy
          2. Hunger
          3. Loneliness
          4. Sickness
          5. War
          6. Lack of Shelter
          7. Drug Abuse
          8. Hate
          9. Sadness
          10. Slavery

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Please stop lying at me. A belief in god has not solved those problems.Thanks.

            1. 0
              Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              It has. I see it everyday through the people at my church.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Religion has kept slavery alive for thousands of years. Religion is not what stopped slavery, humanity was.

                1. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Is there only one case of slavery in this world? There is still slavery today.

                  1. 0
                    Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    And it is still being solved. But not kept alive by religion

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Then why did you state Religion has solved slavery? Especially when slavery is condoned in the bible.

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Like William Wilberforce, who used his belief in God to do all he did to stop slavery, so the opposite case can be made as well from history.

                  There also is no directive at least say in Christianity, to hold slaves, but I don't know what other religions might teach it that some might be thinking of. 

                  The people who stopped slavery, and are involved in human rights of all kinds, operate very often out of a worldview or religion that drives their action and motivations.  Others have consciences in them that even if not explained by their worldview, help them to know it is inherently wrong.

                  1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                    oceansnsunsetsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Letters written by the apostles and followers of God to those that were in slave owning situations at a time long ago, or slaves themselves like Onesimus, don't teach that owning slaves is something to do.  In fairness, we need to recall history as well, and how the world (unfortunately) was.  People working of freedoms for debts, for instance, or a criminal working for his freedoms...  they were encouraged to pay those debts, and masters were taught to treat them well.  These were slaves in slave holding situations already, with a run away slave as the one example.

                    The religion I believe in, Christianity, teaches that we are truly enslaved by our sin, and promotes freedom in all areas of life, both now and forever.  The teachings are opposite of slavery, and I appreciate it addresses the very things that actually hurt all humans in this life and possibly the life to come.  I don't know the full teachings of other religions though to speak with such confidence on those.  So really it comes down to the religion.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Directives to hold slaves in the bible. Keep in mind that Jesus never spoke out against slavery.


                    Ephesians 6:5 (NLT)

                    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

                    Colossians 3:22 (NLT)

                    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.

                    Titus 2:9 KJV

                    Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

              2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                On an individual level - perhaps they are. Do you have to believe in majik to do so? I don't think so.

                1. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course not. But I have never said atheists aren't good.

                  1. 0
                    Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Stalin was an atheist and one of his agendas was to eradicate religion from the Russian peoples lives. He killed millions; does that mean atheism is bad for the world since I gave you an example of an evil atheist?

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Right - so a belief in god is secondary and no different to a non belief in god for the examples you gave - yes?

          2. 0
            Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I am a Christian and even I can agree that those things have not been fully solved. People of course have been able to state that a belief has helped them with their individual issues, But with some of e others, they are still ongoing

            1. 0
              Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              No one said anything about FULLY solved. The question posed to me was what has been solved by the belief in God. If that were the case they would have used the word ENDED and I am sure any intelligent person would not ask the question since common sense says that could not possibly happen. Plus the argument could be made that it could be possible to end 100% of suffering if 100% were Christian. Mark would not ask that question because he is too smart for that.

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Touche'!! Good point

            2. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yea plus new people will eventually be born that will have problems so as long as we keep moving the goal posts, we can dishonestly discredit anything and everything.

              1. 0
                Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly. Nothing in this world is 100% except death.

              2. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Of course. The goalposts will always get moved

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I find or observe that those that  move the goal posts, tend to people that struggle with the reality of a situation or their views and how they play out.  What a strange time we live in when it is more acceptable on any level, to move the goal posts rather than accept something like an idea has failed on its own merits.  We aren't at peace with possibly holding ideas that obviously might fail as things play out, so we move goal posts as an acceptable response, then cry we won or the other team isn't playing fair? 

                  I think its meant to be an indicator to ourselves, if we need to move the goal posts or see others.  Then comes the punishment and rewards from all levels that we see...  A form of manipulation because people don't just willingly embrace bad ideas overnight, they have to be beat down and get wore out fighting what they think is the good fight, all the while watching those that cheat to win, get congratulated and rewarded in all kinds of ways.  This has an effect on society....  really bad thing that have happened in history don't just happen overnight, people wouldn't stand for that!  They happen slowly, to people that are gullible, weak, and don't think and are distracted.

          3. MelissaBarrett profile image59
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            There is just as much work being done by atheists in those areas as Christians.

            1. 0
              Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Of course. I never said otherwise. Just because I say something good about what religious people do doesn't mean I am saying athiests don't do it. It is not a butterfly effect.

              1. PhoenixV profile image79
                PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I think its a flat out lie. I do not think there are "just as many atheists" making changes as Christians. Demographics alone refutes that.

                1. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I'll let you fight that battle.

            2. 0
              Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The question posed to me was what problems has religion solved.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That would kind of limit your answer to things that Christianity alone solved.  Which is none.  There is not one single thing that Christianity has ever done for society in general.

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  History proves otherwise.

                  1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                    oceansnsunsetsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I think it was a provocative post, carefully worded with particular meanings so that you can try to rebut it and obviously so, but with then a fall back to say, "that is not what I said, I said in general."  Without being able to read her mind on exactly what was meant, its a lose lose.  I just can't believe she even said it at all.

                2. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Melissa,
                  You might need to go back and read the post we wrote before you came. We covered that already. I'm not going to beat a dead horse here.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Firstly... in case you missed it  I actually responded to your post several posts after yours. Therefore obviously I did not start when I "came in". I went back to the last post I read and went forward. 

                    My point wasn't covered in them. 

                    The one and only time in history that "Christianity" did anything was during it's formation.  That was the only point that the religion was unified enough to do anything collectively.  Everything else was done by groups of Christians.

                    There is no official "Christianity".

                    If you ruffle over the statements that Christianity causes wars because only certain Christians did it then you also can't claim ANYTHING that "Christianity" has done to benefit society.  It's hypocritical. Certain groups of Christians started wars and built hospitals OR ALL Christians started wars and built hospitals.  Which do you choose?

                    Slavery *in america* was started by Christians and it was ended by Christians.  There isn't a net benefit there anywhere for society. 

                    And I'm discussing Christianity because it is the faith that I belong to.  As that stands then obviously I'm not beating up on Christianity itself.  It's your opinions that I am contradicting.  Please don't assume you are the whole of a religion and anyone that disagrees with YOU is attacking CHRISTIANITY.  That's rising a bit above yourself.

                3. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  and if this is typed twice, I am sorry, but my hubpage is crazy with the posts 2day

                  Melissa,
                  If you go back and read the previous posts, we covered that already. I'm not going to beat a dead horse here.

                4. James A Watkins profile image93
                  James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Half of all volunteering in America occurs in activities involving the Christian Faith. Half of all charitable giving is to Christian Charities. Half of all associational memberships are Church related. Christians are much more likely than other persons to visit friends, to entertain at home, to attend club meetings, and to belong to all sorts of groups, associations, and organizations.
                  The Scientific Revolution only happened in Christendom because Christianity taught us that a rational God created a rational universe and gave humans rational minds that could grow in understanding of it and therefore Him.
                  Hospitals are an invention of Christianity, as are Hospices for the dying. During plagues, for centuries, people would flee the infected cities and history shows that only one group of people were observed going the other way—TO the plague ridden towns: Christians.
                  Community Schools and the modern University are innovations of Christians—all the Ivy League Schools save one were established by fervent Christians: Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc. etc. etc.
                  The spreading of literacy itself is credited to Christianity. Most people through history first learned to read primarily so they could read the Bible.
                  Nobody other group through human history has even approached the billions of hungry people fed by Christians through the centuries.
                  No other group has been even close to as successful at reforming criminals, prostitutes, drunkards, and drug addicts as Christians.
                  It was Christians who abolished slavery, not Atheists, not Buddhists, not Muslims, and not Jews.  It was in Christendom that slavery was first abolished in the world.
                  The number of medical missions to other lands and to the poor at home by Christians is innumerable.
                  Nobody has taken care of orphans, widows, and the handicapped throughout the last 2000 years as Christians have.  No other group has come close to housing as many people without shelter and clothing as many people without clothes. 
                  The number of Christians who have given up comfortable homes to live and work among the dregs of the world is staggering. 
                  No group has done as much to improve prison conditions as Christians.
                  Government welfare programs are counterfeit Christian Charity, designed to deliver the goods without the Good News.
                  Christianity has made more people happy than anything ever created on earth. Even today, people who attend church on a regular basis exhibit better mental and physical health, and live longer. They have more stable marriages and fewer disabilities in their old age. They are happier, feel better about themselves, are less depressed, and use less drugs and alcohol. Their children have better outcomes, too.
                  The more often you attend church the happier you are. 49% of Americans who attend church more than once a week are Very Happy; 41% of those who go to church weekly are Very Happy; 34% of those who attend church once a month are Very Happy. The least likely to be very happy are those who never go to church—23 percent. And the happiest of all Christians are "Fundamentalists."
                  Your very notion of "equality" comes from Christianity, which taught the world that ALL people, regardless of background, socioeconomic status, educational attainment, heredity, race, ethnicity, male or female, are equal in the eyes of God.   
                  It is from the Christian Faith that you might have an idea of a "sanctity of life," which stems from the truth that human beings are created in the Image of God. That is also why you saw Atheist regimes murder 100 million souls in the 20th Century, because they see human beings are mere animals who exist to serve the State. 
                  What is it about the message and teachings of Christ Jesus, and the life he lived, that makes you so hostile?

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Okay, way to much to comment on so I'll just add that it was not Christianity that abolished slavery at least in the U.S. The less religious north fought the much more Christian south (bible belt) to end slavery. Please don't attempt to give give Christianity credit for ending slavery.

                  2. 0
                    Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Don't worry about her, she is not even reading the posts. If she had she would not ask me to go BACK over that because we clarified it way earlier. It was acknowledged.

                    She also didn't even read the post she replied to because she jumped all over Christianity when the post was about religion. There are way more religions than Christianity, but she seems to be on a whip the Christian kick.

    14. Oztinato profile image82
      Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It is important never to say "all religious people" do this or "all atheist people" do that etc.

  2. moonfroth profile image82
    moonfrothposted 4 years ago

    KESS's point is fair enough---we DO, now, after centuries of blood, slaughter, turmoil, and war live in a democracy where we are free to express our views--even ask unanswerable (albeit important) questions.  And, Seductor, your icon is after all, Sisyphus trying to roll that big mother rock up that hill, and we all know how far THAT goes.  So your question is appropriate.

    How about a cliche as an answer?  "All anger springs from fear."  I rather like that one, perhaps because like most good cliches. . .it's true.  Waaaaay back, I can imagine a tribe with a bit of territory and a few sustaining resources discovering that a nearby tribe has more resources and more territory, but fewer men.  On top of all that, they look different and wear their skins differently and grunt differently.  In no time the leaders of our first tribe have whipped up fear aimed at "differentness".  Fear then hate develops in the tribe. The first attack on the strangers follows.  Then the victors have to preserve the hate and anger in stories around the fire, and soon Religion is born.

    Or something like that.  And social groups will always do everything in their power to maintain the status quo.  Focusing hate is a wonderful way to keep the folks looking and thinking in one direction only.  Sustaining that requires symbols, icons, stories, institutions.  Hate is voracious, so it must constantly be fed more hate.

    How'm I doing, Seductor?

    1. ElSeductor profile image59
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      moonfroth,

      Doing well. 

      A few years back I shared a house with some roommates.  We all agreed to keep the common areas clean.  In other words, we could keep our individual rooms dirty, messy, with clothes all over the place and dirty dishes everywhere without hearing about it from a roommate.  However, in common areas (e.g. kitchen, living room, etc.) we had to be mindful of each other and keep the areas clean.

      Why can't people do the same in life?  Believe what you want to believe when you are in private, but do not impose your beliefs on the world?  Here in the US, there is a separation of church and state.  Religious people don't get this for some reason.  Keep your beliefs in your private rooms.  In the common areas, it is separation of church and state.  Period.

      R

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The problem is the separation of church and state in America isn't complete. If a particular religious group is voting for someone because of their religious views there is not a good separation. Other countries with a good separation don't care about the religious views of a candidate.

      2. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So are you saying the separation between Church and State means the religious have to keep their views private?

        You sound like the type of Europeans that colonized our culture. Out of fear our language was never allowed to be spoken any where in public. It had to be done in private or there were consequences to pay.

        Do you fear the religious?

        I thought USA was all about freedom of speech, just as you have freely spoken your mind against the religious?

        1. ElSeductor profile image59
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          pennyofheaven,

          Yes, I fear the religious.  Look at what is happening in Israel and Gaza.  The Islamist extremists want to do away with Israel, and back and forth.  All this fighting over religion.  Maybe they would stop fighting if they suddenly realized that there is no God.  They are both wrong, and could benefit by spending their time on worthy causes, like preserving life instead of ending it.

          Do you remember the Spanish inquisition, where Catholics killed Christians?  What about the fact that Catholics were suppressing knowledge about the universe back in times when the Catholic church did not want to recognize that the Earth was not the center of the universe.

          Religion is nonsensical beyond giving people a sense of relief in light of the scary thought that we are nothing but a grain of sand in this vast universe.

          Religion should be practiced in private.  There are people who believe that snake bites are a form of religion.  Do you want those people to display their beliefs near the playground at the park where kids play?  No. 

          R

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I see no point in being afraid of the religious. Perhaps what you may not realize is that if there was no belief in God, these things will still occur. It is human nature.

            Nature has taken many more lives than man has and does not have beliefs to justify her actions.

  3. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    I just stumbled across this info tidbit.

    "The Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter and The Twilight series all present worthy cases, but the Bible is actually the number one most shoplifted book of all time."

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That was hilarious. The stealing of a bible. Is that why jails are littered with Christians? Are Christians either not moral or not smart enough to get away with stealing?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        After they stoled it, they forgot to read it.

        Is that why atheist know the bible better than Christians?

    2. jonnycomelately profile image84
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sure the Lord wont mind, he can run rings around any Tom, Dick or Harry. big_smile

  4. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    The belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved!

    NOT TRUE

    You can say that the way in which many people exhabit their beliefs (whatever they might be) causes ALL of the problems in the world. 
    And the way in which many people show what their beliefs are is the only thing that makes life worth living for many others.

    SOooo it is our behaviour which counts most, regardless of what our beliefs are; no matter the topic  those beliefs are reflecting.

    1. ElSeductor profile image59
      ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Jerami,

      I disagree.  One of the reasons poor countries are poor is that they have more children than they can afford.  Religious people are against contraception.  Therefore, religion leads to overpopulation.  Overpopulation is a problem caused by religion. 

      R

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The fact that their land was taken from them which in turn limited their ability to provide for their families played no important role for you? How about the unnecessary killings of the animal kingdom that provided food for these families? Not to mention the forests.  Instead the foreigners in pursuit of control,  pleasure and greed killed without thought of the consequences. The consequences are evident in the starvation and illnesses of these countries.  As you can see. Man is his own worst enemy.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          God is not part of the discussion of contraception. He leaves it up to us. It is no longer an issue of religion.  Jesus said nothing about it. He brought a new way. Based on love. If you cannot take care of another child you are free to not have sex in order to prevent pregnancy.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Obviously responding to wrong post. Sorry, Penny. It was meant for a ridiculous argumenative comment by Rad Man. I do not agree in the least with Rad Man or with Troubled Man. They are only here to be obnoxious.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image59
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              http://l.yimg.com/ck/image/A6473/64738/470_64738.jpg

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Well I'm at least in good company. The company of ATM that is. There is no devil.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Do you call everyone who disagrees with you obnoxious?

        2. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          First;  I apologize for not seeing this post till now.   Don't get to get on here much anymore.

          Most of the poor people in those poor countries that you speak of have little else to look forward to other than having sex; They don't know when they are going to enjoy their next meal, or when it might come. You can't blame religion for that.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What are you talking about. When the Pope say condoms are a sin and to a country with a population and Aids problem they not be the cause by they are not part of the solution. I do believe the Pope have have finally seen the light in this respect, little to late.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Following the Pope is the problem. Go within to the light within you and to Jesus directly.
              I mean, really...Does the Pope meditate or do energization exercises? I doubt it. What can he know?
              Has the pope even reprimanded the pedophile priests or allowed them to marry and love women?

    2. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      @Janesix and Penny of Heaven

      I'm confident that you both have minds that work, and opinions and ideas and thoughts that churn around in those minds, waiting to be shared.  Beyond, I suppose, being "cute", posts like "Yep" and "LOL" are valueless--a complete waste of time  "Yep" to WHAT?  And you are laughing out loud at WHAT?.  How do you expect other members of this group to DISCUSS your ideas with you when you give them no ideas to discuss?.  If one or both of you find El Seductor's questions laughable or simply not worth your precious words, don't waste my time by posting inanities.

      @ El Seductor

      When I start a discussion, I wait until a few posts are in, then dive back into the discussion and give it more specific direction.  It would be helpful if you did something along those lines.  Thanks.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Please note it was Kess's post I laughed out loud at.

        It was so simple yet very profound. The contrast made me laugh.

        Hope that's clear for you.

        1. ElSeductor profile image59
          ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          peenyofheaven,

          I don't know if you live in the US or not.  The reason Kess's comment is not profound is that in the US there is a separation of church and state.   

          Perhaps I over reached in my forum details by including Muslims.  After all, in many Middle Eastern countries, there is no separation of church and state.  In fact, the governments are run based on writings in the bible, quran, etc.

          R

          1. pennyofheaven profile image81
            pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            No I am not from the USA. I am from New Zealand. Religion has nothing to do with politics here. It is rarely an issue.

            I am not sure what the separation of church and state has got to do with Kess's comment?

            He was getting you to explore your own reasons for starting this thread which then should give you greater insight into why religious may air their views. Therefore you already had an answer to you question if he looked within.

            So why ask a question that you already have an answer to?

            1. ElSeductor profile image59
              ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              pennyofheaven,

              Kess's remark is like asking the defending team why they are protecting their goal.  Or like a robber asking the homeowners why they are protecting their home.  I am playing defense.  Religions are on the offense.  If they were not out there spreading their fear, wars, and ignorance, then I wouldn't feel the need to shed some light on the issue.

              R

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not the same - robber asking the homeowners, why they are protecting their home.

                Christians can talk all they want, ignoring them all together would be the best line of defense, if they were really that offensively toward you.

                I can handle the risk of losing a few jobs or relationship over them for something maybe better at times

                1. ElSeductor profile image59
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It's not the talking that is the issue.  It is the fact that they demand that God be included in schools, for example.  It is the fact that they base their political decisions on religion (e.g. abortion, contraceptives, anti-gays, etc.).  If all they did was talk about religion, then there would be no problem.  I am all for freedom of expression. 

                  R

              2. pennyofheaven profile image81
                pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You post makes no sense apart from the "I feel the need to shed light". The need you feel is the same need religious people feel.

                1. ElSeductor profile image59
                  ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  pennyofheaven,

                  I'm not stifling knowledge, or keeping women from having abortions, or keeping gays from getting married.

                  R

                  1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                    pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Good to know smile I understand what you are getting at here. I don't get why you think we should not permit the religious to speak. Individuals have their own minds. They either question what they are taught or follow blindly. It is their choice no one else's. We cannot make their choices for them. The non-religious can choose to listen or not choose to listen. All do not listen that is why the are not religious.

                    If religion becomes a law, that might pose to be a real problem.

                  2. A Thousand Words profile image80
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Because either you don't find them ethically incorrect, or you believe that it is none of your business. That is your personal conviction, one I agree with, seeing as it's quite rational. However, there are people that believe if they keep their mouths closed and don't fight to change what they consider to be wrong, that it's just as bad as if they were partaking in it themselves, and so they feel they must act.

                    1. pennyofheaven profile image81
                      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Exactly! Just like Elseductor and many others in the forum.

      2. ElSeductor profile image59
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        moonfroth,

        Thanks.  You beat me to the punch.  smile 

        I was about to say to these individuals, "It's like the blind leading the blind."

        R

    3. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      El Seductor et al

      While endorsing the generality of Mr. Seduction's last post, I'd suggest some fine-tuning.  The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, for example, guarantees freedom of religion AND freedom of speech.  Hmm.  Problem here.  Personally, I froth at the mouth when some ding-bat jumps on a soapbox in a public square and starts blaring a fire-and-brimstone load of crap about, say, homosexuals being an abomination in the eyes of god and a blight upon the earth. etc. etc.  But if the cops rolled in and carted him away merely because they didn't LIKE his message, I'd be the first one to protest.  There are ground rules -- if our proselytizer says "go beat them up" or "kill them", uh-uh.  Those acts are illegal.  You do not have the freedom to advocate violence that is against the law.  With that caveat, however, I have to defend this idiot's right to speak.  I will even defend the right of Jehohvah's sales agents to come to my door and ask to talk with me and give me pamphlets promoting their elitist concept of the afterlife.  Because I have the right to order them off my property.

      Historically, hideous religious wars and all the destruction that attends them have accounted for the deaths of millions and the obliteration of entire civilizations. Our focus must be on doing everything in our collective power to stop that destruction from growing in strength and influence.  Radical Islam is huge, but we must realize that these madmen are as much  a blight on a gentle, caring religion, a religion that utterly rejects radical violence, as they are a blight on US..  So we must be vigilant and keep our respective politicians and decision-makers' feet to the fire. They must come to know the dire price we will make them pay if they fail to promote the kinds of values needed to protect us against repetitions of the worst parts of our history.  It isn't enough to just pour another glass of wine, sink into your easy chair, and tap out noble messages on HubPages.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        What dire price would that be?

      2. ElSeductor profile image59
        ElSeductorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        moonfroth,

        I agree.  At the same time, I am usually drinking a beer when writing Hubs.  wink

        R

        1. ahorseback profile image44
          ahorsebackposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe you outa stop doing that , this thread is moronic !

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Don't ever tell anyone to stop drinking beer!!! That's alcohol abuse and I will not stand for it, well that's a lie, I have to stand to get to the fridge.

    4. aware profile image71
      awareposted 4 years ago

      spero in dio

    5. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      to PennyofHeaven

      Firing them and forcing them to get honest work

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Lol ok.

    6. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      @Aware

      Molto buona, ma la volontà di Dio rispondere alla tua speranza in questo mondo violento?

    7. aware profile image71
      awareposted 4 years ago

      hope in god

    8. aware profile image71
      awareposted 4 years ago

      insistence in god has us in the place  we find ourselves now . i think. spero in dio. it might be   a last hope. i hope not tho.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Last hope for what?

    9. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      @Aware

      It is a difficult quandary, Aware, as you indicate.  Various religions over 4000 years of human history have been warring with each other, at incalculable cost.  Certainly no one religious "stand" has won.  But here OUR culture stands, many of our group praying to the God worship of whom has contributed bigtime to the mess we're in! It's sort of like asking a pyromaniac to be your fire chief.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Fresh thoughts, moonfroth

        I'll follow you, for a bit

    10. aware profile image71
      awareposted 4 years ago

      joyfully participate in the sorrows of man. my idea  of god does not know we are here. its not mad at us. it doesn't  cause problems . it creates suns. spero in dio? hope in god?
      hope in what? hope my ideas right.

      1. pennyofheaven profile image81
        pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol ok

    11. aware profile image71
      awareposted 4 years ago

      my idea of god  hasn't caused a problem. or solved one

    12. knolyourself profile image61
      knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

      I am an artist, and it feels and thinks so fantastically sublime, that I insist that everyone appreciate as great what I do.

    13. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

      We have freedom of religion. What is wrong with that, again?  And which religion is tyrannizing over others? What Christian religion is becoming political or trying to gain some type of political power?   Crazy radical Muslims are the only religious group we need to protect ourselves from and they are obvious and a joke. Well, a really destructive joke. BTW, non-radical Muslims believe in Jesus and God and do not pose a threat.
      The statement, "Belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved," is not provable, so why state it.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Ummm. Muslim, all Muslims are taught that Jesus was only a prophet and not the son of God. So they don't believe as you do about Jesus. And of course they are not a threat.

    14. moonfroth profile image82
      moonfrothposted 4 years ago

      El Sed.--I'm going to back out of this discussion, because it isn't going anywhere.  The topic should probably be "Organized Religion (NOT God. . .). . etc. . .).   Even then, if we perused the Religion and Philosophy sites on Hub Pages, we'd probably find that the topic has been done to death.  Finally, most of the comments are at a declarative, rather than exploratory, level.  Boring.  And one simply canNOT argue a topic of such complexity with one or two-word posts.  So, adioa amigo!  We'll meet again On HUB.

    15. ThompsonPen profile image83
      ThompsonPenposted 4 years ago

      I have a love hate relationship with organized religion. I am not a part of any organized religion, but I am certainly spiritual. Love is my religion and I believe in the Universe. That can be interpreted in many different ways.
      That being said, I really appreciate organized religion because it shows the passion that human nature can have. Passion is a beautiful thing when kept in check. There are fanatics that go way over board, and they're the ones that give everything a bad name.
      When I am passionate about something, I talk about it, and talk about it and talk about it. I want to share with the world this amazing thing I have come across which causes my Serotonin levels to soar! But there's a fine line between respecting other peoples' boundaries and expressing your joy.
      All religions break down to the same thing: Love.
      Every.
      Single.
      One.
      Love.
      Part of love is respect. Respecting that other people may think differently. And it is an understanding that should be embraced by every one that our world is a rainbow. Every person in it is a different color which helps make it to be the beautiful thing that it is.
      Not every one catches on to that part.
      While it may be annoying to some or down right dangerous for the very excited to express and push their beliefs, we have to remember that it is THEIR journey to find that balance between respectful love and celebration of their own love. We can give gentle reminders that we are happy that they have found what they are looking for in life, but it is not your way, but ultimately, they need to find the path themselves.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Right.  Allowing each person to guide his own will is the heart of love. The will is to the psyche what the heart is to the body. When a religion does not get this and tries to indoctrinate or scare people into believing something, it is actually counter productive to human happiness.

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1

    16. ahorseback profile image44
      ahorsebackposted 3 years ago

      Just one more forum thread seeking to push the buttons of Christions ......Bla blaaa be Bla bla !

    17. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

      And this is another thread I'm tired of... "Paradigmsearch lights a candle in the hopes that this thread will die. Fat chance... " Cut it down, folks. This is not a religion issue. It's just common sense. If half of the forum were about frogs, I'd object to that as well, what with this being a non-frog site. Common on. Enough is enough.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So go away. Do you need to control everything? You want to leave, but you want us to leave first? All you have to do is hit that do not follow anymore button. I do it all the time when I get bored.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Really... what is P.'s problem? I wish P. would not read what is not pertinent to P.'s life!

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Hey, we found something to agree on!!!!!!!!!!!!! P. should leave us alone.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah!  We are having an obnoxiously great time. Not everyone can hang.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                We laugh, we cry, we yell, we sing... That's not for everyone.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  You are right! I was singing "She's so heavy..."  a while back. Just too much for some.

      2. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Never mind. My rant mode has concluded. Carry on... lol

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          LO

      3. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Mr. par
        This is not a religion issue. It's just common sense.Or not a frog site

        The thread is
        The belief in God has caused more problems than it has solved!

        It's common sense 85% of people on earth are believer in their Religious God

        This is Philosophy and Religion section??? I'm lost now.

    18. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago

      The truth is that God is the force within each one of us. He is perceivable, if we keep in tune with our Selves, (as opposed to catering to our Egos; as opposed to being caught up in materialistic pursuits; as opposed to being on alcohol or substances.) The inner life of each of us has been given to each of us. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within." Now, Who said that?

    19. 62
      maugerjasonposted 3 years ago
    20. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

      I still wish this thread would go away... Day after day.... Oh, well...

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Dear P.
        Take your Self and Go. No one here is stopping you. You have free will. Please stop reading what you do not wish to read. It is the Height of Lunacy. Please connect up to your higher wisdom and guide yourself toward
                                                                Something  To  Do!       
        or not.
        we don't care what you do, in all actuality.
        in fact any new keyboarders are welcome.

        But, I just don't want  y o u  to suffer.

        1. paradigmsearch profile image90
          paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          A very sincere LOL. I think I like you. big_smile No future rants contemplated. Do cut it down though...?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            @Mr. P
            What did you want me to cut down?   before I go.... so I will know for next time...?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              He never answered me. I wonder what it was that I was saying that he didn't like?  Guess I'll never know.

      2. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It can go away. Just press the do not follow button.

    21. caughtyoureye profile image61
      caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago

      The reason why Christians Openly express their beliefs is so They can and will be Blessed by Jesus for explaining what your purpose is here on this earth. So many people live there daily lives in search of worldly happiness, having no knowledge that true happiness only comes from the Lord. If you would like to know more please feel free to ask. I can give you my testimony and im sure your eyes will be open to the Truth of this world, not the Devils deceit!

      1. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, they openly disrespect others by telling them what to believe so that they may selfishly get their rewarding pats on the back from Jesus. Good job, Christian.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Some people resist the Christians because of psychological hang-ups. Usually from an overly aggressive upbringing with domineering parents who robbed the poor child of his own sense of free will. So instead of learning how to guide his free will, the child learned to shut it down or shield it.
          And as as we all know by now, the will is to the psyche what the heart is to the body. Amen

          1. A Troubled Man profile image59
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            LOL! I've often wondered what's it like to be so disconnected from reality, so indoctrinated into a religion that one actually believes it is others that don't wish to have fairy tales of invisible super friends injected into their lives, have mental problems. Classic! lol

    22. caughtyoureye profile image61
      caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago

      Thats an easy one, to add members to his family, so they can go home with us

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No, to party it up on earth. Yes, We are here to get out of here. But, if we want to be here, there has to be a good reason!  I like using my will and interacting with my environment. As I am doing on this forum and now as you are too. We really come and do what we would like to do and use our will that God gave us. We are also here to be here. So find your passion and have fun! We gotta do both. The highest good is doing something for the sake of itself and something else.  For example, being here and getting out of here.
        Speaking of getting out of here, BFN! I have other passions to pursue!

        1. caughtyoureye profile image61
          caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry but, YOURE WRONG. EVER HEARD OF THE BIBLE? Read Matthew

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            And I continue my thoughts as to the death of this thread.

            1. paradigmsearch profile image90
              paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              edit: not replying to specific.

              1. caughtyoureye profile image61
                caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Probably bc your reply would be wrong/irrelevant. Prove me wrong

            2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Now I agree. Thanks for sticking around. In fact you can have my spot. I'm Out!

    23. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago

      You are really a party-pooper. Have Fun.
      btw You don't have to  s h o u t. Try whispering it is more effective.  S h h  h   h    h     h....

      1. caughtyoureye profile image61
        caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No the devil is the real party pooper. I just dont want others to find out the hard way!

      2. caughtyoureye profile image61
        caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No the devil is the real party pooper. I just dont want others to find out the hard way!

        1. caughtyoureye profile image61
          caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I will not have FUN. I will have FAITH, and so should you

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I have faith that I will have fun and you will not.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Dear P
              Isn't this reply of Rad Man's, (I have faith that I will have fun and you will not) too precious?

              1. paradigmsearch profile image90
                paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I am also seriously concerned. This must be established.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  O. K.   Like I said, I am officially gone anyway.

        2. caughtyoureye profile image61
          caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I will not have FUN. I will have FAITH, and so should you

          1. caughtyoureye profile image61
            caughtyoureyeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you Father for laying down your life for me and the rest of the world who could never have deserved it.

    24. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

      This certainly is a frequent thread...

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Everyone is invited to the 400th End of the World Party.

        For the ones who truly believe, you first

        I'm leaving too, have  fun

        1. paradigmsearch profile image90
          paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You have no idea...

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I'm Back.   Either do you.

    25. ahorseback profile image44
      ahorsebackposted 3 years ago

      "Here you go again "another atheist with a sore throat !

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Take your religionist blasting and shove it.

        This is a writers' site. Not a religion site.

        Leave us alone.

        Enough is enough.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Funny, how he join in again

    26. ahorseback profile image44
      ahorsebackposted 3 years ago

      See what I mean .....ohhhhh !  "Leave us alone" .........Ah its called a "forum" post ?  paradigm see what I mean about  sore throats ! Poor baby !

    27. ahorseback profile image44
      ahorsebackposted 3 years ago

      Here they are folks! ....the usual anti- religious button pushers!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Am I on your list of your anti-religious, it so, please strike off , because I'm not anti anything.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Is that where you live? Castle Paloma? High above everything ... looking down from your lofty bell tower?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Being anti anything only join the problem, not the solution

            For example- twin towers the Religious bombing that killed around 3000 people
            When no Iraqi were on those 4 planes that attacked the USA soil

            Result- bad imagination and proof

            One million Iraqi on their soil were killed in exchange, my tower is not perfect, but it's not mentally ill.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Y i k e s.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So you do not agree?  You think that making psychotic messes of our children is in line with the Golden Rule?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Psychotic messes, gold rules

          Please boiled down the question???

          Killing is a mental illness, not an eye for an eye with the world

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            To clarify:   I wonder who believes that giving our children phamaceutical drugs is in line with the Golden Rule as taught by Jesus: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
            Q. Would Jesus expect His little children to maintain good  g r a d e s  with the "help" of Ritalin or Adderall?)
            A. No. I believe Jesus would agree that Grades are not as important as teaching the child how to master his own mind and develop his own intelligence without the use of dangerous substances.
            It just seems like the truly religious and spiritually inclined person would agree. The laws of nature should not be broken, but instead worked with.   If a child has a mental dysfunction he can learn to deal with it. He really can. I have seen it.
            Ritalin robs the child of his REM deep sleep cycle. Without enough sleep who can be a real, calm, decent, functional, rational, normal or typical person? The ability to sleep is more important than straight A's

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Your ignorance is apparent. I have an ADHD kid with an IQ of about 145, who was barely getting C's. I tried everything for 4 years with only some improvement, brain training school, live blood cell analysis and diet just to start. Going into grade eight he needs good marks or he will be unable to get into the academic stream. Imagine a kid with an IQ of 145 on the small bus? I didn't let the teacher know that I he was being put on low dose time released meds, but they know within days. His marks shot up and he is able to get all his work done in school rather than the 6 hours of homework at night.

              Once again, hand gun control is causing all these deaths, not ADHD meds as you indicate. However let kids like mine try to scrape through high school and get a job an McDonald's for the rest of his life and you'll have some real problems.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah cuz your child is no longer in touch with his own will, A Mon Avis.

                If he were my brilliant and gifted child I would mentor him myself or have someone in line with his own interests mentor him or tutor him... What is he interested in? You can infuse all subjects he needs to master within and into his main and true interests. Go ahead and work with his intrinsic motivations. It is OK for your child to not go to school. There are ways to create an environment that are conducive to help him develop the skills he needs to survive. It is worth to effort in this regard, in comparison to drugging him.
                I would go to any length to avoid messing up my child's natural thinking process. It is better to make the best of it and work to help the child guide his own will and understanding. 
                Grades are as unreal as the Concept of NO GOD. No wonder you believe in good grades.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Do you even understand ADHD? Will has nothing to do with a child with ADHD. Didn't you read that I spent 4 years getting help. Unfortunately you can't get into a University without good grades anymore. And you can't achieve well when you get there if you can't sit through a 3 hour lecture. Very often kids only need meds for a few years until there brain gets used to paying attention. This kid is interested and smart enough to do anything he wants, but no education leads to no job and depression and then you have a much more costly problem. He actually barely notices the medication and his personality doesn't change when he's not on it on the weekends. He no longer likes to go to school without it because he recognizes his lack of attention and it bothers him. Perhaps you should do a little homework and educate yourself as to how these meds help make the brain chemistry more normal.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Have it your way. It is a pathetic one in my opinion. Your child is a science experiment in my estimation. Most kids spend years and money in school only to get out and not know what they want to do with their fancy and expensive piece of paper which the diploma is printed on. Take my advice and let him pursue his interests. His intrinsic motivations and true interests will lead him to rewarding work. Not the teachers in the universities. BAH. Time will prove me right, unless you are really lucky! And I truly hope your son is really lucky.

                    1. 0
                      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                      It's clear you don't understand. I can't help you with that.

                  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    The personal tapping into one's own Volition has 
                                                       e v e r y t h i n g 
                                                to do with mental health.

                    1. Chris Neal profile image83
                      Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                      You need to explain that one better because some people literally cannot exercise their own volition in regards to mental health. Schizophrenia means that the people literally cannot tell reality from fantasy, in fact the voices in their head seem more real than the people they meet. How does a pure exercise in autonomous volition factor into that equation, doctor?

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                He said to me, "Your ignorance is apparent."
                What is it, I wonder,... specifically... that he knows, and I don't?
                I mean, can any of us be   s u r e   of what we say we  "know"?

                In the end, time is our destroyer.
                It all be over someday.
                Will we know then?
                Ask Hendrix

            2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this