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I can start a discussion, but could I have started.... "Everything?"

  1. jonnycomelately profile image88
    jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago

    Look at the palm of your hand.   See how the joints in the fingers do not align perfectly when the hand is outstretched.   As you close your fingers, those joints allow you gradually to form a very true "tube" of your hand, with which to grasp something rod-like.   All the pads line up to give a unified grip on the rod, and this would have been (and is) very useful throughout our history as one of the top primates.

    So:  how did this arrangement come about?  It works so well for the function intended!

    We can see that it might have come about simply through "natural selection," Charles Darwin-style.  In fact it probably did.... I can't imagine it suddenly "happening,"  and appearing Harry Potter-style with the wave of a wand!   Did a human-like creator design it and set in motion?  Or could the instigator of this creation have started with a sort of seed, which grew out of a point source, then that growing effect simply filled the spaces of an matrix? The matrix being the template for the finite spaces to be filled? 

    This latter scenario would fit in with our current concept of the atom, then the molecule, then the larger and larger molecules, plasma, rock, DNA, cells and bodies, etc. , etc.

    We don't need to see this entity which set things in motion, into process, as being a personified being; although that can certainly help people to accept it, those who cannot go deeper into the imaginary state of mind.  There is nothing wrong with this way of looking at it.... each view has its merits.

    I leave the question open, see how the idea develops in those minds which might be getting bored with the theist/atheist argument.




    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It seems to me that evolution have provided us with the hand that was used for making tool and picking fruit. Our closest relative has a similar hand but seems to be adapted for grabbing and climbing more so than ours.


      1. jonnycomelately profile image88
        jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed, yes.  I was looking more at the actual formation of the hand; in each hand shown, the fingers are so formed that the inter-phalangeal joints don't line up exactly, in the extended position, otherwise they would knock together and make a most un-usable structure.  Presumably this would occur through the simple cause-and-effect process of evolution.
        This principle occurs a lot throughout the body's anatomy.  I can sit at the wonder and beauty of this without needing to assign the credits to a "creator," yet the other Hub has brought up other considerations as to the original instigation of such a process.   I will not retrace that ground, no need to here; waste of time.

    2. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not usually "bored" with the theist/atheist arguments,  since it is always so ASTOUNDING that people can't see that humanity is the creation of an all-powerful, intelligent Designer!   Duh.........that would be God.

      What's "boring" is actually participating in-depth with those arguments.   Much more fun to just pop in and then exit, alternately giggling and sighing at the people running around in circles figuratively chasing the tails they believe their ancestors had!  LOL

      1. jonnycomelately profile image88
        jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Wish I still had that appendage... could still hang out in trees!

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 3 years ago

    The hand is handy, however I think that since we can think the hand isn't that special. Had we the brain we have and been a species of centipede, we would be pondering the wonders of having a plethora of legs; convinced that we couldn't have gotten where we did without them.

    My thinking on the subject of the arrangement of our reality coming about is that this reality must be by design. Not a God with a big white beard; or even a single entity or species having begun the process. I think the creator is the process and the smallest basic building block of our reality. An integral part of each of us and everything else. An awareness  that extents to the subatomic level of all energy. There is so much we don't yet understand and have to learn, but the complexity of life precludes random development in my mind.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image88
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It's accepted that this question will probably get very little feed back.  It's pretty deep and complex.  Most hubs here romp away when the are less complex and more in the realm of entertainment/(de)bating of others, etc.
      However, thanks for your feed back here.  Hope more will come on-line.

  3. moonfroth profile image82
    moonfrothposted 3 years ago

    Jonny--I know where you hope this discussion will go, but--call me a cynic--it will probably moosh into the tiresome old "how could we possibly have the complex wonder of the universe without a divine Creator at the helm?"  Deep Believers regard that question as RHETORICAL, but many if not most of them fail to understand that if such is their deep belief, dialogue about cosmology is not possible.  They have decided the outcome of any dialogue before it has begun.  What kind of an utter waste of time is THAT?  Now, Jonny, if I get the gist of your initial question, you are using the functionality  of the human hand as a springboard into a discussion of how we became what we are--but a discussion of that topic WITHOUT the theist--atheist split.  If that's it, my question back to you is--how can non-specialists like most of the people reading this, engage in that kind of  dialogue at all?  That is, will not the discussion devolve  into my opinion/your opinion/my opinion?  Who cares?

  4. Chris Neal profile image84
    Chris Nealposted 3 years ago

    I have to admit, this is the most interesting variation of the old "Have you ever really LOOKED at your hand?" question I've yet run across!

    1. jonnycomelately profile image88
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Ha Ha, Chris and Moonfroth... .yes, how insightful!

      My real object is to spark an awareness of the wonder and awe of what we have and live with.  My hand was the first thing "at hand," pun intentional, in other words the apparently most mundane of things has a hidden depth of beauty.

      In my view, all of the arguments around creation, spirituality, mysticism, purpose and where we came from, etc., tend to lose sight of the wonderful.   I would like to see some of it come back into our lives.  If this Hub does not do that then please, someone, find a way to do it.

      Even just using a philatelist's x10 magnifying glass, I can bring a sense of awe to a child (even an adult "child") peering into the tiny trumpet of a flower.  I don't need to be a scientist to do that .... just love the world as I have it.

    2. psycheskinner profile image81
      psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The first paragraph could make a nice start to a naughty short story.

      Or is that just me.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image88
        jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        As an example of one of the Top Primates, I doubt if you would stoop that low!

        I would love to try such a short story, but it would never make publication on Hub Pages!

        It's amazing how the public mass media in UK and Australia have got away with innuendos and ambiguous terms/sayings in recent years, which would have got a definite discard even 30 years ago.

        Regarding the Wonders of the World, Sir David Attenborough's work has opened our eyes to so many previously unheard of things, like the pollination of various orchids by very specific wasps and other insects.  The other day I was using that little magnifying glass to look at a tiny flower.....gorgeous colours, deep red petals and yellow anthers (the tiny tips that carry the pollen), but something which was invisible to the naked eye was a tiny spider walking over the anthers. 

        When you really think about such a tiny life form, making its own decisions, totally free of any political or religious wrangling, with probably more brain power than we have, less of life's worries too.  Maybe all this mental freedom was lost to us in the Garden of Eden, because "she made me do it!"

        Rambiling thoughts yes.

  5. moonfroth profile image82
    moonfrothposted 3 years ago

    I think it was William Blake who said the poet's job was to "see the world in a grain of sand" (or something like that).  I think that's what you're getting at--if we could somehow keep the awe and wonder of the child alive in the adult, how could we possibly go to war, commit vicious acts of torture, and otherwise abuse our fellow man?  And we would be so agog at the wonder of life all around us that we would have no NEED to posit some Head Guy that started it all!!  Right!  Well, now that I sorted that all out, Jonny & Chris, what's my next assignment? Oh,did I not tell you?  I came up with the insight, but YOU two get to make it all happen. . . .

    1. jonnycomelately profile image88
      jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for that, Moonfroth. 

      I am currently in Haiti again.   Getting to know the Haitians at the down-to-earth level, and loving them. 

      This past week introduced a few youngsters to the old demonstration of beans grown in a glass jar.
      In the old days, (hark at this ol' codger!) we used blotting paper, but I doubt that is available.   You can use a folded up newspaper instead.  The paper is rolled up inside the jar and the beans placed between the paper and glass, so they don't drop down into the water.   Water is gradually soaked up by the paper and the beans still have plenty of oxygen available.

      You get to see the beans pushing out first the root, then the side roots, then the cotyledons gradually grow upwards and become the first leaves.

      At this stage, the kids have seen how life begins...... then plant into the ground or a pot of compost/soil, and later a handful of beans to eat.   The whole process is simply educational.   

      This is what I mean by the simple wonders of life.

      1. vveasey profile image83
        vveaseyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Another simple wonder of life is that we can see, hear, think, talk and even understand and appreciate what you mean by "the simple wonders of life".
        That's a simple wonder in itself.woudn't you agree?

        Another simple wonder is I can get a spontaneous idea for a song (lyrics and or music, I'm a songwriter and a musician) and develop it into a full fledged baby of creativity! Hot Damn!

  6. safiq ali patel profile image72
    safiq ali patelposted 3 years ago

    We were created and rich is the detail of our creator on our bodies. Our palms and fingers to bear our identity, hour history and our family. In in mystic cultures the lines on our palms are said to tell of our fortune, our past, our present and our future.