There is no afterlife, I believe that when we die that is it, and to be honest we are all in the same boat, so it doesn't bother me at all. The easter bunny would be a much more credible idea than a 'soul' floating up to an eternal world where everything is perfect forever.
Is the thought that there is no afterlife so unbearable that it blinds people? Does it take away their logic or make them block it out? We can all understand that it is a comfort that after a hard life their is eternal happiness waiting for us, but if you believe that, really think about it, where does that belief originate? What reasoning are you using to arrive at the belief? Is it just that the thought of no heaven is too much for you?
Part of the problem is that they have been told that there is an afterlife, taking it away becomes painful. Kind of like giving a child candy and then taking it away. I do think it's comforting to believe that when you die you go somewhere else there is not question about that. Reality is painful and I have to say I'd have a hard time telling a critically ill child there is no heaven. Nothing wrong with a little hope. The problem arrises when one dedicates his entire life's philosophy on the afterlife that doesn't exist.
He didn't say he knows, he said he believes, just as believers say the believe, but don't know?
Nope, he said "There is no afterlife"
He went on to say what he believes happens when we die - but he definitely stated "There is no afterlife."
So again... How does he know?
And just how do you know there is an afterlife? Do you not understand the word believe?
I don't know if there is or isn't. But I can read - "There is no afterlife."
ps. I will type his quote again - slowly - so you can follow along:
"T-h-e-r-e i-s n-o a-f-t-e-r-l-i-f-e"
and once again ask... How do you know?
Wait, I'll do it slower...
"I believe that when we die that is it"
Can you read the word believe?
There is no evidence of a soul, or that consciousness survives physical death, therefore there is no reason to believe that anything happens to our consciousness after we die. All the evidence points to it simply turning off, like RAM when switching off a computer.
Which is why it takes a lot more strength of character to believe that there is nothing after death...
It's impossible to know whether there is or isn't an afterlife. So how does logic come into play, again?
For me, it's what makes life bearable. The thought of eternal nothingness is much more comforting to me than eternal consciousness. I believe once we die that's it. This can't be proven. But I'd like to believe that I can live the life that I want, the way that I want and that I won't have to be judged for it in the very end. The thought of being judged at the end of my life has always bugged me, so I refuse to believe that that's how it will go down. Religion isn't bad. Some people need the distraction and I do admit it gives meaning to a lot of people's lives. But I've never been able to buy into any of it.
Doesn't bother me. I do hope for reincarnation though
I believe that there is life before death and their is life after death. And I believe that there was life before our birth too. There is an after life, and another life, and a future life, and a meeting with god, and I believe there is a devil, a satan, a Jesus and a Santa Clause too.
I believe our soul, spirit, or life force continues on after the death of the physical body. i think of it as an energy that can't be destroyed. I often compare death with birth. Before we were born, we were living happily in the womb, unaware that we were about to enter a whole "new life." So yes, I believe in Heaven, but I use the term rather loosely. It could be another planet, a renewed Earth, or a different dimension.
My thoughts are those of habee. No one can say there is or is not an afterlife. I believe it is some kind of energy stream. I will always believe in the after life!
Peter Pan said it the best - 'to die will be an awfully big adventure'.
Since souls and spirits have never been shown to exist, there is nothing to float up to a heaven or be sent to a hell. Whatever 'life force' we as humans exhibit has been shown to be purely biological and becomes non-existent once we are dead.
What I find to be unfathomable is that anyone finds the beliefs of another unfathomable. Cosmic truths are a mystery. Let everyone believe what they want. It's just belief.
I view the afterlife this way. When they say that you will die and go to heaven or hell for eternity, I think your death itself is that gateway. Not that you will go to either place, or have any thought or walk around like you did when you were living, but more that those who are still living will remember you. So you will be alive in the memories and thoughts of others. Not physically alive yourself. Just as many people believe that Jesus will return, yet, they say he is always there over your shoulder watching you, and everything you do. So, in a sense he has already returned, just not what everyone expects.
I also believe that death is heaven. Think about it, you are free of pain, free of thought, basically at peace, as you will feel and see nothing. Death is forever, just as going to heaven is forever. If there is a god waiting for you, so be it. Do you really think that once you are dead that is going to matter? This is one reason why I do not fear dying. Those who are so afraid of dying because of what wrath a god might have in store for them, are wasting their life on earth away.
I would like to think that if there is a true, loving god, as the bible says. There would not be all of this confusion, and so many ways that he will hate you, and banish you to hell. If you read the bible the only non sin is the worship of god. But, it has to be the correct god, so that could also be a sin. The funny thing is, there is no confusion about going to hell. It's the same in any religion.
One comforting thing is that we were once star dust; literally, everything apart from hydrogen was made inside stars like our sun, and we will probably end up as star dust again, we may even be recycled and parts of us 'live' again in other creatures, this is very likely to happen within the life of the earth in fact as the carbon in our bodies is recycled. We will live again, but not in the way most people think!
The matter in my body will be converted to energy or move along the food chain, and the atoms I'm made of will make their way throughout the world. So, in a sense there is continuing life, but maybe not consciousness.
But we get to be a part of myriad uncountable other beings and materials, and eventually will become part of the sun again as it expands to eat the earth. We get to contribute to the workings of the universe, and that's pretty cool.
Sadly, until one experiences communication with another dimension, one can not see what else may exist outside of our tiny physical lives. For those who believe in an Afterlife, nine times out of ten they've experienced "signs" from their deceased loved ones. And sometimes, this can be a life changing experience.
Isn't it a great time to be alive and be able to believe in whatever it is we want to believe in? The choices are limitless...
What do you mean by signs? Mediums are the worst exploiters around, I know someone who hangs onto their every word and won't let go of long (I mean 10 years) lost family members and still talk to them, anyone who says they do no harm...
By "signs" I mean acknowledging personal experiences with loved ones passed. Love never dies and time is of no matter. I wouldn't say Mediums are the worst exploiters around, instead, I believe they can open a window of opportunity for those who haven't enhanced their own abilities to be psychic communicators. There are those who become Medium junkies, but there are also those who "need" to know their loved one is okay.
There is nothing, ever, like the feeling of losing someone so quickly via murder or an accidental death. The torment that one can put themselves through is astronomical. To find a sense of hope, faith, or even peace through a true and valid mediumship reading...it can be an eye-opening experience for the sitter and sometimes...this can be the beginning of recognizing the "signs" from the Afterlife on their own, without the help of a Medium.
"I wouldn't say Mediums are the worst exploiters around, instead, I believe they can open a window of opportunity for those who" need money and enjoy taking advantage of people at a time of need.
Unfortunately, those in need don't know where to "look" for answers. Hollywood has hyped Mediums and encouraged individuals to use their services. I do agree, they shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of those who are searching for truth. Education is important...but most do take that first step into enlightenment via a Medium...sad but true.
Nobody takes a step into enlightenment through a Medium. They take a step into becoming even more gullible and broke.
I have to agree with rad man, I have read your profile and understand your difficult experiences lynragan, but it can never be a good thing. They prey on the emotions of the grieving and they get paid for it, if faced head on (and there are stages of grieving etc) then it is quicker and easier to get on and move on if there isn't someone telling you they are sitting next to you and watching you and giving you very emotive messages.
The use of suggestion, educated guesses, and prior research is very well documented, fraudulent practices are uncovered all of the time and the most 'successful' mediums never open themselves to scientific based tests or research, and the rare occasions they do, there is never evidence to suggest any supernatural abilities. They are without doubt the worst kind of fraud. The radio one on one's you get on some stations are the most obvious, as the medium in my experience is nearly always initially wrong and end up repeating what the caller has told them to save face, this is because there is less (but not zero) opportunity to gather information on the subject and the group element (or the element of randomly calling out syllables or initials) is taken away.
The afterlife is a given. So i don't know how someone can tell "them" there is no afterlife. Heaven is different than afterlife, although they exist at the same time, like my car and my oven. In the bible there is enough information about the afterlife to confirm; its existence, its availability, its owner, its strange nature of being, rules to abide by before one gets there, etc.
So how is afterlife questionable.
The sun is 4 billion years old, and has another 3 billion to go. Thats a very long time, is it not?
Unlike the bible, reality does not show an afterlife, so it is highly questionable and not at all a given.
The question then remain, is there enough information in the bible to confirm it's validity?
"The afterlife is a given", by which I assume mean that it is a well known fact that needs no evidence, but then go on to list the "evidence" that proves it. The two thoughts would seem to contradict each other; the "given" is not given at all if it needs facts to back it.
That the "facts" used to "prove" it are the imaginative ramblings of ignorant peoples from thousands of years ago virtually guarantees that it needs to be investigated further; those people had little idea of how to separate fact from fiction.
That is how it is questionable.
But it's only questionable by those who do not believe...
Would you expect it to be the other way around?
No. It is actually questionable by anyone, believers or not.
The difference is simply that believers don't care if they have actual information or truth; what they have is already sufficient for their needs. That they choose not to question doesn't mean that they can't or even that they shouldn't.
True, some believers don't care if they have actual info or truth; they just believe in their faith. And then there are some believers who stumble upon actual evidence and have no choice but to believe. The Afterlife will always be an interesting subject since most have to "see" to "believe".
Exactly... believe by those who believe... and belief comes by the holy ghost and the holy ghost comes by Jesus who is God. Ya don't need sight-seeing evidence when the above becomes real to you. Afterlife is indeed A Given to those who know God, but to those who know not God it is foolishness.
Like A and Z, so far apart, so opposite, so different. Saved and UNsaved, born again and not born again. The Unsaved believe in what they can see and the saved believe in what they cannot see. Opposites. And this opposite lifestyle and attitude will not 'see' an excellent society, aka, after(this)life.
Never mind that.
God lives forever without end
The sun is 4 billion yrs old (according to scientists)
Rev 21, 22
how can there not be afterlife?
Perhaps you're unaware that Ezekiel 37 is propaganda directed only towards the people of Israel. The God of the OT doesn't care about any other people.
"28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."
...changed his mind then... but the whole thing isn't mean to be read cover to cover, only in bits when you want it to say something that will help your cause of spiraling extremism
Slow down John. Was I wrong in asking for clarity? When some Christians mention afterlife, they are talking about the dead being alive in heaven or hell or purgatory right now. The Scriptures you are referring to are about life after the 2nd coming. I can agree with that.
LOL. Yes, little green men are a given for visiting alien believers, bigfoot is a given for Sasquatch believers, Nessie is a given for the Loch Ness monster believers, etc.
The rest of your post is gibberish.
Glad you find it funny, it shows your beliefs are just a given, and irrelevant, of course,
I hope when people read our books 4,000 yrs in the future they do not think us as rambling ignorant people. Or discredit us as simpletons for thinking gravity was unstoppable. Or our ignorant political system and that money stuff, what were these goat herders thinking of.
This book about God has to be ancient. You can't get around it. Its from the beginning and expounded and expanded over time. Its not meant to be read from cover to cover like mans books - how interesting is that and it contains a really accurate geneology throughout earths history. In every way this book is exceptional.
Do you think people will read Harry Potter in 4,000 years and think it was a reality for us and dragons existed?
Just because the book is old doesn't make it factual. It is certainly not factual or accurate regarding the genealogy as it makes outlandish accounts that we today know are impossible. But then again anything is possible for the gullible.
Not so.. the Jews are as famous as the masons and mormons for tracking geneology.
If i were only looking at one criteria i would say that yes, old does not a factual book make. But is it coincidence it starts out,,, in the beginning and is over 6,000 yrs old. God does not lie. Of course the older the book if a book of geneology would be a good resource and age would be an attribute not a debtribute.
Harry potter: If not by reading, they will after they see the movies! and they will believe in santa and easter and the hulk, captain avenger, silver surfer... A flimsy point that is just speculation. The next question, i suppose is, will marvel comics be upgraded to a new religious tome, 4,000 yrs in the future. I guess so, since i just said it. lol.
Again, you are under the assumption there is a God and that the bible is the word of God. Those are just assumptions and they are getting in the way of reality. If you read the OT for what it really is, Israel propaganda intended to give Jews a sense of entitlement, you see the OT in a whole to light. The fact that it's old and start "in the beginning..." is irrelevant. Many fictitious story start at the beginning.
Its not meant to be read from cover to cover like mans books? Is this so you can pick and choose and take your own meaning and pretend it doesn't contradict itself? And before you say anything about the old testament, you're the one who started quoting from it...
Well if it is the gospel then you should take note of Deuteronomy:
"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." - 13:6-10
Killed many people non believers lately brother? Or is that a part of the bible that maybe is a bit fallible?
Not at all fallible. How can it be fallible when it is right there? One of Gods rules. Right there. Yep.
And your problem with that is exactly.... what?
You didn't answer my question... have you killed many non christians recently? Because if not you are by your own admission going against god.
You still haven't answered? Or have you decided to blot that nasty little passage out of your mind? Or even better are you now an atheist?
I don't think because someone wrote it in a book that the afterlife can be a given.
Depends on the book
It wasnt someone.. 40 different authors over thousands of years. Not even Encyclopedia Britanica has a history like that.
Its a book about God, it comes to us from the beginning, as it should. No point waiting around 4,000 yrs and then writing something.
It is widely acknowledge (from the brief bit of research I have just done) that the hebrew bible / old testament too no longer than 400 years to write. Then they stopped. Then it took just over 300 years from the death of christ until the christian bible was compiled. So 2 seperate works took no more than 700 years collectively to write. And even if it was 1000 years, none of those who wrote it were corroborating or working together. So lets put together Tolkiens, rowlings, wells, lewis and whatever fantasy author you can think of; they all have commons themes, they all have similar characters if you are selective (i.e. elves, goblins), they all have similar characters, gods and story line.
If it put them together like emperor constantine did and call it a religious text I think I would get believers (look at scientology if you don't believe that), I could make it so that they were all written over a period of 4000 if you like? Starting with the epic of gilgamesh and finishing with tolkien. By your logic I would have created the tightest and most accurate factual book that could ever be read.
I suppose if you want to go ahead and say that it does sound like it might possibly work, although you would have to take the place of creator to make enough changes to truly produce one book, unless you just want a thick readers digest. And how you get factual out of tolkien and others has to be taken as an illusionary fact because really, no fact can be taken out of it. Bold of you to use this as part of your defense, but, tisk tisk. You see the bible states names and places and happenings that can be linked to real and factual history. Archaeology has put together an impressive amount of data concerning biblical findings.
Constantine did not just put together the bible. The OT had nothing to do with him personally, it was already written, completely. The NT documents are letters and gospels written to Christian churches. What is strikingly obvious is that the NT quite obviously continues the OT. Quotes are used by Jesus from the OT, the main character - God is mentioned hardcore times throughout both the OT and NT, the same themes occur and it reads like a singular book and not a readers digest. There is no doubt that the Christians were in touch with jesus and that this Jesus trip was a continuation of the OT trip.
We Hindus believe in reincarnation So yes it is quite unbelievable for us that there is no life after death.
Going back to the spirit of the initial question - I know that it is not unbearable to think that there is no afterlife, because I once believed this and was utterly fine with the idea. I no longer do, but that's another story. Speaking on a basic level about non-belief - it is actually quite comforting. After all, death is defined as the cessation of experience. It is thus an inherently impossible thing to experience. If you cannot have a concious experience of death (because you no longer exist) then what is there to fear? The only comparable thing in our lives is deep sleep. We are not aware of anything in deep sleep. Are you terrified of being deeply unconcious? No? Then why should death (in the non-afterlife definition) be scary in anyway. Personally I find the idea of eternal damnation a hell of a lot more scary!!
I wouldn't say unbearable. My husband is a believer and he once asked me how I (an atheist) feel about the fact that all the bad people who never get caught would get no justice if not for hell. His thought is that by having an afterlife it will somehow be the solution to the bad here on Earth. That somehow having a hell will make up for the horrible people who were never punished.
Not my way of thinking, but what ever works for each person is not my business.
Because he wants bad people punished he submits to delusion to give himself peace rather then just admitting that life is unfair.
Well, I will just keep my faith in Almighty GOD and His Son Jesus Christ and a strong belief in Heaven and will share it with others, "Share," not shoving it down someone's throat, and you can believe what you want......but....man did not just come into being one day along with the rest of the World....and with what I am reading/studying in The Book of Revelation and what it reads, these last days are shaping up accordingly....to God's Word...
You're right man did not just come into being one day a long with the rest of the world - the bible would have us believe it did though.
Man came into being after a long slow evolution process of hundreds of millions of years and continues to evolve as the process inexorably continues, one day, in millions of years (assuming some of our ancestors continue to survive) we will cease to be what biologists would call 'man' or homo sapiens and there will be a new species, a species that 'did not just come into being', but who evolved over hundreds of millions of years...
I don't think we will be around long enough for that. I also don't see what could cause us to evolve now that there are so many of us and we are spread all over the earth. We need a need to evolve and unless we drastically mess us the climate there is no need.
Whether there is an afterlife is beside the point. I live my life to suit my sense of morality and enjoy it. I accept that there exists ugliness and brutality as well as beauty and grace, and so I strive to notice and appreciate the latter and minimize the former.
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