if someone talks to someone about sex, and it's unwanted, it's considered harassment. The other day, i was sitting in Starbucks and this man (for the second or third time) demanded to converse on the basis that I was in a public place and if I was in a public place then I was obliged to speak to people... It was harassment
The dictionary defines harassment as follows:
1. to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.
2.to trouble by repeated attacks, incursions, etc., as in war or hostilities; harry; raid.
In San Diego, every time there is a big event - comic-con, the gay parade, Christmas nights, there is this group of Christians who come with big yellow signposts and bullhorns. I've been putting this on film (video) and taking photographs for about a year as I intend to write about it.
This last year, the gay community, sick to death of these people, bought a bullhorn and got the atheist community to stand right next to them, to picket them in return. The guy with the bullhorn said, "You are a disgrace to your country. Who died and made you god? My bullhorn is the loudest that can be bought so I'm going to drown out everything you say (he did), and next year, there will be 200 of us with bullhorns..."
At San Diego comic-con, I have a picture of guys holding up signs saying, "Ignore these guys. Enjoy comic-con."
I propose a law, and I am very, very serious about it, that religious harassment become illegal. It's one thing having freedom of speech. It's quite another disturbing the enjoyment of others persistently, invading the public arena in a way that continually bothers others, that pesters people who don't want to know, etc.
In any event, what is your opinion about religious harassment?
There were these religionists harassing the grieving at military funerals awhile back. It was on the news, including a resulting court case I believe. I do not remember what the court decided.
Not true. It's about timing. The 'Nones' are now the same size as the religious young. They are increasing in size every day. The nones are a group of people who dont' have a particular religion, respect the right of people to believe what they like, and have a spiritual bent. It's a numbers game. The more people there are who object to religious harassment, the more the resistence to it will grow.
I don't think it's harassment if the man walks up to and asks you to engage in a conversation and you decline; however, it is harassment if he continued to press you. That's completely uncalled for.
If an evangelical christian were to walk up to me and ask me if I knew Jesus, and I responded that I did not and I didn't want to hear about him, then the evangelical christian should keep on walking and not press me. If the christian continued to try to talk to me, then it would be harassment. I wouldn't call the police, but I would break out an F bomb.
On the other hand, if I had said I wanted to talk, and the christian went into their spill about Jesus being my savior and all of the typical religious dogma, and then I randomly became angry, then that's on me, because I signaled I was okay with engaging in a conversation.
Maybe the guy in Starbucks was trying to lead up to asking you out. When men insist on trying to talk to women who don't want to talk, that's usually the explanation (in my observation.)
Oh, I have no doubt. The point is harassment, and in this case, it's called sexual harassment.
It should be illegal. People should keep their religious views to themselves. If you believe in something, fine-just do not proletyze others regarding your religious beliefs. That type of behavior is unconscionable and is a form of harassment. I hope you do petition this to be made into law.
That happened to me in my building complex. I did not like it and contacted management about this and now they do not proletyze in my building any more. Enough is enough. I do not want to be told what and how to believe. I am free to believe and do as I please as long as I do not harm anyone.
I don't think religion is the only thing that has caused issues. The nature of some men - the need for more resources, power, etc. has also been at fault. So has hunger and thirst when people are looking for these resources and they have to kill others to get them.
I love this! I love your idea.
Religious harassment becoming illegal probably won't happen unfortunately. But I truly think those who partake in it, don't realize they are doing so. I personally think those who practice religion sometimes feel targeted by atheists and think They are the ones harassing. However, from my experience, and being an atheist myself, I have yet to run into one of my own kind who sits there and preaches to people about their beliefs. Sharing your beliefs and pushing your beliefs on someone are two different things. I often feel pressured and insanely annoyed by Christians trying to push me to believe in their god. It's disrespectful in one of the utmost ways to me, for I don't try to convince them that their god isn't real.
I think a problem with our society is we don't necessarily always respect each others beliefs, choices, and lifestyles. A lot of people could use a reality check and attitude change.
My personal opinion I is that it is difficult for many who were raised outside of the States to understand our concept of freedom of speech. That's ok. We'll keep plugging along end maybe the concept will sink in. Maybe not, but complaining about it is freedom of speech also.
Actually, Emile, the only people who don't understand freedom of speech are the people of the US. 180 countries out of the 196 countries in the world have freedom of speech. Get an education.
You're confusing freedom of speech with the right to harass the public, insult individuals, invade other people's space, etc. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech was born in the 16th and 17th century when people who differered from the Kings and the pope were put to death for daring to have a different opinion. In no ways was it ever intended to replace good manners, respect the space of others, and more.
This is religious harassment and I've spent a year collecting videos and photos of it, and I'm going to write about it - not necessarily on HP, but I am going to start bringing attention to it.
I think you have completely failed to address the point made about where the dividing line is for free speech versus harassment.
You just decided to call people trying to discuss this issue ignorant. A quality I do not feel is distinctive of Americans, native born or otherwise.
Freedom from faith-based harassment is a principle even more American that apple pie, the earliest European settlers came here to avoid it.
I didn't miss point. The OP started with a statement concerning someone who expected her to converse. That isn't harassment. All you have to do is say no. Or don't acquiesce to being railroaded into a conversation. Then she related a story about people exercising their free speech at a convention. Others decided to exercise their right to free speech. Neither side agreed, but had the right to voice their opinions.
This growing tendency of citizens within society to insist that people keep their opinions to themselves is odd, considering the fact that those voicing an opinion that includes denying the right to speak to others can't seem to follow the thought to its logical conclusion. Once you start allowing government to determine what can and can't be said by the individual... Insisting that everyone be politically correct in line with what one individual considers to be politically correct...where does it end? People have a right to speak. You have a right to disagree with what is said, but not the right to insist they never say it.
Emile R, please explain to me how 50 or 60 people standing in streets and on pavements with enormous banners preaching with a bullhorn is a 'conversaton?"
It's harassment in the harshest possible terms.
Firstly, people have to walk around these people. Next, they are forced to listen to people blaring through a broadcast system that has nothing to do with conversation.
Before you were born, people DID keep their opinions to themselves. Especially their religious, sexual, and political opinions. The wisdom of the time was that one didn't speak about those things becasue they caused discomfort and discord. It's only in the last 30 or so years, it's become acceptable to speak about them.
The other thing is that when one doesn't want to speak about these things - even in a private conversation - people guilty of religious harassment don't seem to get the many signals that one doesn't want to speak about it. They just continue because they're aggressively determined to say what they want to say.
It has absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing to do with conversation. It's harassment.
It is free speech. That does not always constitute a conversation
Out of curiosity, do you think gays and lesbians would have attained the rights they have if the far right Christian community hadn't been so hatefully vocal? Do you think society would have stepped up to the plate and shown solidarity by passing laws within some states to allow for marital equality? I don't. I think allowing them to speak causes others to think. To reflect and change their stand out of embarrassment that their opinions were once a mirror image of those being expressed.
But, if you pass laws forcing some to stay silent the only thing you will accomplish is to ensure the conversations that produce change for the good are never had.
These people just sound like they're hiding behind their religiosity to mask their blatant homophobia. Homophobia is defined as a hate crime in the UK and measures are taken to prosecute where appropriate. I'm not religious but I do feel that people should have the right to worship as they choose, attacking the gay community using homophobic language and using large numbers to intimidate is not worship- it is a crime of hate.
They should be stopped.
It is absolutely their right to be there... as much as it is your right to be there.
Rights belong to everyone... not just the group you support.
If the g'ment would be so silly as to try and block them from assembling then I would be right there fighting for their right to be heard.
Making another person butt-sore is the constitutional right of every American... YOU can always leave if it chafes too much.
Actually, they don't have a legal right to be there.
At the current point in term, they've been there because, for the most part, nobody dared to say anything about it. Laws don't apply to one part of the population and not to the other. And you obviously don't know the laws of your own country.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona … c+Nuisance
Quote from above link, "A public nuisance interferes with the public as a class, not merely one person or a group of citizens."
I suggest you stop shooting the messenger because you don't like the message, i.e. "If you don't like it, leave."
Everybody else has a right to be on the streets because they pay taxes. However, the church has no right to use public places because they don't pay taxes.
That comment is so typically American. It's comments such as this that gives American's their reputation of not understanding what's happening around them. I've had numerous conversations in these forum with American's telling me I don't understand freedom of speech as if American were the only country that allows freedom of speech. Canada, that's your neighbour directly above also has laws protecting freedom of speech, but Canada also has laws protecting it's citizens against hate speech. This law would prevent a group with a bull horn for example spreading hatred towards a particular minority or majority. Does this law negate freedom of speech, no, not really. It does protect it's citizens from the damage that can be done from hate speech.
180 countries out of the world's 196 countries have freedom of speech. I have no idea why Americans think that their country is so unique. I guess they've never traveled, lived, or worked in other countries, and their press and education system keeps them ignorant.
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, which, in the main, relates to political views, not religious ones. There's freedom of religion, but that does not include the right to harass and intimidate. Hate speech cannot be justified.
Well lets say these religious groups get together and talk about how homosexuality is a bad thing for the nation. That's no longer freedom of religion because they've brought it out into the public. It become hate speech No?
Yes, that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. But there's a difference between freedom of speech and freedom of religion. This form of intimidation is in no way related to freedom of speech, which protects the rights of those who want to voice opposing political views, nor does it relate to freedom of religion, which ensures the freedom to practice, teach and observe religion (they may be more elements I've forgotten) This is just hate speech and intimidation.
Do you know how many American's try to pass into Canada with firearms? We put signs everywhere leading up to the boarder say absolutely no firearms allowed and doing so is punishable with prison. And yet the pull up the boarder and answer no to the firearms question. When the guns are found they are asked why do you say no and the reply is usually I didn't want to leave it behind and the next is if you take that one away where can I buy a new one. As if they think their right to own an gun in their own country gives them the same right's here.
That being said I find Americans very kind both in the US and in Canada.
I find some Americans kind , but then there are kind people all over the world.
I think some Americans have an over-involvement with themselves as sovereign individuals firstly and members of the communtiy secondly. It's actually the other way round. It has to be for a country or community to work. This 'individualist' at the expense of the community is why the US is breaking down.
I have dealt with religious harassment since I been in grade school..Go back over 5 decades of dealing with this element of Christians believing they have the obligation to shove their beliefs down anyone's throat.
Freedom of speech has nothing to do with religious harassment. As I grew older, I was able to tackle them with words, so debating became my forte'. My late hubby and I made many run, and I would do it again.
I now am not big on debating, though I can still send them running, if need be. They act from what they have been taught. Most people still act from their ancestor records of beliefs. Have fun changing that. I prefer to change my own beliefs. One movement usually is to cripple another movement, because they believe they are the reason for their misery. It is not my belief, and I refuse to join any group who wishes to do such.
Paradigmsearch walks into Starbucks. He spies a stranger at a table. Goes over. Sits down. "Hello", says Paradigmsearch, "I want to talk about Captain Kirk and pork chops."
"I'm not interested.", says the stranger.
"I don't care.", says Paradigmsearch. Paradigmsearch then proceeds to tell the stranger all about Captain Kirk and pork chops.
"Leave.", says the stranger. Signals management.
Paradigmsearch keeps right on talking...
"Leave.", says management.
Paradigmsearch keeps talking...
As happens daily in such situations, the police eventually show up.
"Leave.", says the police.
Paradigmsearch keeps right on espousing why he loves Captain Kirk and pork chops.
Paradigmsearch is forcibly removed, etc. And justifiably so. That is the law. Been on the books for decades. It's called disturbing the peace.
Why do religionists think that they are above the law and should be given a special pass?
And that's the name of that tune.
They keep referring to is as freedom of speech- which of course it isnt. And then when they are prohibited from harassing others, they scream. "my rights are being violated" when clearly they couldn't give a toss about the rights of others. And what's with the pork chops?
Oh, and now I've done my hub on religious harassment. Still got to uphold all my photos and movies I've taken of this, but it's a work in progress. I'm going to try and get this on a ballot in California...
Whats really amazing is the amount of people that appear to draw those types of people who want to tell them about religion. I lived for 40 yrs and never had an evangelist bother me. I never get yelled at by them or see any bullhorns. Its amazing how isolated incidents can spill into the public awareness and all of a sudden we have a problem if a few complain about a few minutes of bad conversation out of their entire lifetimes.
Of course those very same complainers come to hubpages forum and tell the christians to be quiet again. I think we have the same problem here, of course it is not people in general, just a few who think that doing the same thing makes right.
have a nice day
Well, obviously you live in the backwoods of the world. Try living in San Diego. At the Balboa Christmas nights with hundreds of thousands of people, there were 200 Christian banners and too many too count bullhorns blaring out their message. Very diffiuclt to miss as everybody had to walk around them.
Intellectual dishonesty at it's highest. I evangelized when I was in high school to everyone I knew! If you've never been evangelized to, you are living in a bubble, or living among some hardcore atheist scientists.
I know I am going to be sorry I asked, but I can't help myself.
Why is Comic-Con a protest target?
Really, is that serious? I mean I hope not because I am laughing myself silly over here. Please tell me no one is really marching in protest again non-existent comic book characters. Please.
Because people who like comics are guilty of idolatory. They are worshipping the wrong gods...
Let me get this straight. These people are protesting against Comic-Con because they feel these nerds (I can say that cus I have one in my family) are worshipping spiderman? Why not just start a God comic book?
Yup. they think 'nerds' and 'geeks' will go to hell.
This year was funny. There were two guys standing besides them with posters saying, "Ignore these guys. Enjoy the con."
There are most certainly Christian comic books at San Diego Comic-con International. However, only a very small section of it is about comics at this point.; Hollywood rules with actors, producers, writers, artists, and more swarming all over the place. They come from all over the world.
They say that we, the geeks, are the ones that set the trends. They want to know what we're looking at so that they can follow suit. They check to see what we like. And we have great experiences. Remember the movie Tron? They filmed some of the sound there. It was very cool. I was in it - making the sounds along with probably 10,000 other con goers.
I'm staff, by the way.
So the "geeks" set the agenda for the rest of the nation. I never realized "geeks" were so influential! I've also never been to Comic-Con. I must be missing out on a lot of important stuff.
Sooner, if you're in San Diego at the time, I get comps, so I can let you have a pass. Just let me know ahead of time. Most people know that staff get comps and people are quick to ask.
Ha, I have relatives in San Diego and if they are anything like us you've bumped into them many many times. Sooner didn't know geeks and nerds set the agenda? Bill Gates anyone?
I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing. Really. I'm on the phone with a friend and we're both in tears. My brain cannot process the absurdity of protesting fictional characters. And now all I can imagine is the Stay-Puft marshmallow man appearing on the scene as the agent of the apocalypse.
I'm crushed. My husband and I are both committed Christians. I am a nerd and he is a geek. I had no idea that other believers feel that we are damned.
Thankfully, the God I believe in is far more merciful than the majority of Christians.
That being said, peaceable assembly is a part of our First Amendment, but what is happening here at these convention type events is hardly 'peaceable'. When screaming idiots with bullhorns assemble in any number, they are, without question, disturbing the peace, and should be held accountable for it.
And in any environment, when a person makes it obvious that they are not interested in conversation (about ANYTHING), the only appropriate response is to wish them a pleasant day and then leave them alone. People have their reasons for not wishing to talk at any given time. To hound them is just disrespectful. Any decent human being should recognize that fact.
Thank you, Motown. I appreciate your sentiments. I have nothing against people wanting to believe what they believe. That is their right as human beings. I have a problem with people who are in my face and my space pushing their religion on me.
Geeks and nerds take drugs? OMG. The more I get to know about these bible punchers, the more they reveal their ignorance.
I would respect religion a little more if they didn't force it with tactics like this.
When it comes to protesting, it is not really a function of church or denomination to protest. The message of God is "change yourself first and then the world around you will change". Christians often get stupid over issues and things when really it is not the function of a christian to protest comic-con or any con or the beer stores etc.. whatever. We are to walk as peacekeepers, in love with respect, esteeming all others better than ourselves. Where is the room for protest in that? But people are people and some get really stupid about their God. God doesn't need our help like that. He needs the word spread and we can do that but even that has to be under the influence of the holy spirit and directed by God, cuz God knows the hearts and doesn't need a bullhorn, he prefers to speak softly lol.
Unfortunately, legalist christians do point fingers, do get muddled up in secular affairs, go overboard in their witnessing etc.. but when they simmer down and they will eventually, Gods love can then shine through them.
So for all those that hate the zeal.. remember when you had some zeal for something? Did you not go overboard? See why we cannot point fingers.
I like this, but in truth, we as christians are not to cast our pearl before the swine and there are those who claim to be christians who are doing more harm than good but alll people need do is wait around a little while and the religious fanatics as some think who do have their life right will be lifted from this planet and folks will be left to their own ideas and life styles and yes there will probably still be folks attending so called churches.
Um. "we as christians are not to cast our pearl before the swine..."
Okay, so I'm the swine over here?
Wow! And you expect people to like and admire Christians?
I guess it's the same kind of reasoning that Romney had about women, gays, Latinos, Blacks, and the 49% liking him.
God is obviously just as dumb as Romney.
It's a conservative christian "debate" tactic to deal with people who are not satisfied with the theologically empty answers to the tough questions. Oh you don't agree? Well, I won't waste my time casting pearls before swine.
They also quote Psalms where it says the fool hath said in his heart there is no God. It's really quite amusing.
Well, I guess empty barrels make the most noise...
Yup, I realize that. I just don't get how these people can't see how obnoxious they are.
Lol. They believe the entire universe was made FOR THEM. Obnoxiousness shouldn't surprise you.
I did not refer to u as swine, I only quoted the word which in reality means if people are not asking or seeking answers about Christianity then the true Chritian is to not bother them leat they make something bigger than it is and mock and scoff at them. The bible refered swine as to the unbeliever as a figure of speech which jesus used mostly in parables to convey spiritual truth. I am sorry u took my quote bthe wrong way and I am praying for you and all i can say is that what we live and believe had better be worth dying for cause one day or night we shall all meet that fate and it will either be a blessing or a truama, only God knows so ill be quiet.
Please don't presume to teach me about Christianity. I have won arguments with pastors and ministers who hold Ph.Ds.
You quote the bible very specifically to refer to people like me as swine. You are now backtracking and saying well, God said it acctually, not me, and he's just comparing non believers (I'm an atheist) to swine. Welll, yes, precisely.
As I said. Romney made the same mistake in the election. He abused people he thought weaker and inferior to him, and then they came back and bit him on the behind. If your god is persistent in calling people who don't believe in him swine, I guess he's also going to lose his 'election.'
Sophia, u got to study the culture of that day and the language they used.
U may win an argument by the letter but you cannot win one against God's spirit who knows u better than u know yourself so I rest my case and leave u to your human reason which can only look out to the world around you which will not measure up to a Holy perfect being who created everything seen and unseen.
Jerry Hulse. Are you talking about Aramaic or Hebrew?
Let me tell you some things about me.
I had a Jewish father and Christian mother. When I decided to convert to Judaism, I was the only convert permitted on the Bimah - an unheard of honor. By the same token, the day I converted I was elected to the committee - another unheard of honor. And one of the requirements of conversion to Judaism is learning to read Torah in Hebrew...
I'm more than willing to bet you can't read the old testament in Hebrew. So what was that about having to understand it in their own langague. I can give you a 1000% percent guarant that you can't read the old testament in Hebrew.
Next I spent ten years as a born again Christian fundammentalist.
Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.
And just for the record, only stupid people believe in mythical creatures.
Yes, those who believe they are "under the influence of the holy spirit and directed by God" when spreading His word are really stupid. Thanks for sharing that with us. Please stop spreading the word, btw.
Yes, I roll my eyes when they start telling me about how %$#^@@ special they are because THEY are fillwed with the holy spirit, and then THEY can see things that the rest of us can't. How incredibly delusional can one get. I often wonder if they're just stupid, vain, conceited, suffering from meglomania, or what. What on earth makes them think the 'holy spirit' (which doesn't exist) isn't just another form of schizophrenia? Or the real issue is that they just want to feel special and they imagine that their feelings are the holy spirit.
I think many must, deep down inside be afraid because all their friends claim to have this connection but they don't so they lie and say they do so as to be left out. Kind of like the emperors new cloths.
I can only hope that when you say girls you mean your women?
I just can't imagine why they didn't fall for the bait. You seem like such a catch.
Obviously not the type of body to sweep young women off their feet..
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