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Mike Huckabee says removing God from schools is to blame for shooting

  1. Stacie L profile image88
    Stacie Lposted 3 years ago

    Mike Huckabee says removing God from schools is to blame for shooting
    Huckabee answered the question, "How could God let this happen?" by saying, "We've systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools have become a place for carnage because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, responsibility, accountability?
    http://now.msn.com/huckabee-blames-scho … d=ansnow11
    A mentally ill person is not aware of God perhaps and religion isn't always the answer to our problems, it seems to be the problem itself.

    1. nightwork4 profile image60
      nightwork4posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      if there was a god and he cared, do you honestly think he would let something like this happen. it isn't like it never happened before religion was removed from schools and actually, at least here in Canada, religion is taught in some schools but the kids are no better behaved then the kids from regular schools. teach your kids at home about behavior and quit blaming everything else for the problems.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        A multillion percent in agreement.

        1. Cordelia Bay profile image60
          Cordelia Bayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Me, too! Times have changed. The more we continue to take God out of our country, society and freedoms.....we will continue to see more and more of this kind of activity. Sad....heartbreaking and true. We think that our choices and actions have no effect on anything or anyone else.  When will we wake up and take some responsibility for the things we do? Like trying to take God out of everything including His own Birthday....Christmas?

          1. adrianroc profile image81
            adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with you,God is the answer. Persons who decry God's existence are just weak and seeking a way to live their lives free of any moral or religious principles. They will be proven wrong. They will soon learn the truth though, when the veil falls from the face of the ungodly, their identity will be revealed.

            1. getitrite profile image82
              getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yet believers are too weak to even think for themselves, letting others tell them that a 2000 year old book of abject nonsense is the truth.  Then they dare believers to challenge the nonsense...and believers don't.  WEAK!



              This is a Chicken Little moment.  LOL

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You really think that all believers have just been willingly led by the nose for 2000 years?

                1. getitrite profile image82
                  getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Unfortunately, yes, Chris.  In matters of the believer's worldview, someone has provided a fantasy land for you to be inserted into, and you, and many others, have gone willfully right into the jaws of the delusion...needing to believe in, and worship, something that your imposed authority figures have told you to.

                  You refuse to even entertain for a moment that it is very possible that someone has tricked you into believing something that they know is not real, and that something has made you just too afraid to think FOR YOURSELF...Not God...but your own mind has betrayed you...as, otherwise you seem intelligent?

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, I will simply say that you really don't know me at all, but I don't want to get sucked into one of this tit-for-tat arguments (and I'm not accusing you of it, I know that if I'm not careful I'm perfectly capable of initiating one of those myself.)

                    You make an assumption about me, or at least your posting does, which is that my belief is based on what someone else has told me.

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              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know about that, I'm moral enough to not call you weak and doomed. And what's more ethics and morality are not exclusive to Christians. Christians are over represented in the U.S. prison systems while Atheists make up less then 1% of the prison population.

              1. TerryK81 profile image60
                TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                There are different "versions" and "expectations" of christians in the public's eye; I am most definitely far from perfect and do not consider myself any better than anyone on here. Honestly, it's not morally right or fair to judge anyone or anything, ecspecially when not any honest evidence is known or proven for truth about it. This discussion on this particular hub topic seems to have gone into left field just a bit..

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                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  My statement was not directed towards you. I was not you who made the offensive statement.

              2. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                But then the question is, did all those Christians in the prison system actually enter as Christians? And also, what about the growing number of Muslims represented in the system? Why are they that way? What do their beliefs while in the system, whether they are the same as they were when entering the system or not, influence them towards remorse or penitence?

                1. Codester0391 profile image59
                  Codester0391posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  People often find God in their most difficult times and many people in prison have surely seen hard times.  I don't think that all of them enter as Christians or are Christians when they call themselves Christians, but being jailed several times myself, you'd be amazed by how many of them are closer to God than those who regularly attend church.  Everyone sins, serial killers are no worse than you or I.  As long as they ask for forgiveness and believe in God, their sins are washed away, just like the rest of us.  I think this is something many Christians have a very hard time understanding.

                  Also, to the comment you posted later in this thread "That one hits close to home for me".  There's no hard way to pray, as long as you have faith.  Your wife passed the ultimate test, and she'll be eternally rewarded.  Bringing her back may be better for you, but you'd also be bringing her back into a world of pain and suffering.  She is where she belongs, and since the day she was born it was in her predetermined fate to leave this world at the very instant she did.  Though she was given free will to do what she wanted, her choices were know before she made them.

                  You don't have to ask her for forgiveness because she no longer holds such emotions or feelings, she's forgiven you for everything the moment she entered heaven.  As for God, you only have to ask him once, and you're given a clean slate.

                  Some of what I posted here may also apply.

                  1. Codester0391 profile image59
                    Codester0391posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I should've said, as long as serial killers ask for forgiveness, believe in God and attempt to turn away from that sin, their sins are washed away.

            3. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              "moral or religious principles" are made by humans..... they have been made by different generations for millennia, to control other humans of the day.   

              You people who say you "live by the bible," are past masters at designing morals and principles to suit your particular objective.

              No god had any part in the design of these morals or principles.

              1. Codester0391 profile image59
                Codester0391posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                If you don't believe in a God or a higher power, what do you believe in?  What I've come to believe is the only way I can rationalize the existence of our universe and everything in it.  If you got something better I'm all ears.

                What I was stating in reply to your comment was strictly my beliefs.  That is what I thought you were asking.  I don't want power/control over anyone... And when I say human I'm obviously referring to myself as well.  I'm implying that I don't understand, and I'm sure nobody else does.  Also, my beliefs are what I've constructed in my mind based off information I've  acquired from various sources and from my experiences.
                Infecting?... Peoples minds are infected by their environment every single day of their lives.  In my opinion, a persons environment has more to do with who they've become than genetics do.  People believe what they want to believe, I don't force my beliefs onto anyone.  If they become infected with my beliefs, then so be it.  No different than someone becoming infected with yours or the next persons.  People should be able to think for themselves.
                Oh, when I say "you", while writing about my beliefs, I'm not talking about you specifically, but instead anybody (an individual).

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                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Why must we believe in something?

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                    Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It is a product of the mind to have a belief in something (in general, not specifically a higher power). the thing that separates religious belief and scientific theory is that theory is a belief that is then tested for confirmation of the the belief while religious belief is not directly testable and cannot be known for sure until one dies or when God(if there is one, out of respect to my atheist friends) comes back as the bible says he will.

                2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok, point taken, and I apologise for taking my comment too far as it applies to you personally. 

                  Yes, you did answer my original question and thank you for that.  At least it allowed me to clarify my own mind.

                  1. Codester0391 profile image59
                    Codester0391posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    No harm, no foul.

            4. manatita44 profile image83
              manatita44posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I do not know of anything without a root cause. God is the root cause of us all. If we forget Him, then we forget to feed our Spirit. The material has to be feed and the Spirit has to be fed also. We are made of both. When I was at school some 50 years ago, I was taught Grace before Meals; right and wrong, etc. A society cannot exist without morals, it will decay and die. That is why Confucious was so important. Men and women of God comes with an even more profound message, one which says that we are essentially Spirit and that if we forget our spirit life, we will surely 'die'. In other words, a life without the Divine means a life of extreme suffering.
              Kids now grow without a rationale for the consequences of 'bad' behaviour, and the wages for this is pain and suffering.
              Who can help? Parents, school and government. All three can help and are somehow responsible.

              1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                The Suburban Poetposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                "Who can help? Parents, school and government." Sure but as a black man surely you must know that in the era of "God in schools" our country was plagued by terrible racist attitudes.... ask those who were not white what life was like before the civil rights act of 1964. Did God make white people repent or did man himself?

                This is all very complicated in terms of the violence in our society and the solutions but it is highly simplistic to say that "God in schools" is the answer. The entire belief is unproven by fact and is wholly reliant upon faith. That is the irony of those who are so sure God is real; faith is what they must have and yet they ignore what faith really means.... it's a hope that has been elevated to a certainty by those who need it to be so.... and it is wrong to shove a particular belief in a deity (not right and wrong; there is a difference) down everyone's throats.

                1. manatita44 profile image83
                  manatita44posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  My Brother,
                  God knows and we know that there is enough bad stuff everywhere if we look for them. There is a story about a badly behaved boy who was looked after by a man of God for three months and then sent back to his parents. By then he was totally virtuous. "What did you do?" said the parents. "Nothing." said the holy man. The boy had spent three months there and had learnt by example how to live a holy life.
                  Your answer reads like it is full of pain and suffering. Write as if it is full of comfort and solace and it will help others. What I am speaking of is not God but the basic elements of truth, love, compassion, mercy ... but we would not achieve these without prayer and care, irrespective of faiths. Since God seems to scare us, then why not common decency? Human nature cannot change and does not change without acts of selflessness. We see the problem, true, how about our own mirrors?

                  1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                    The Suburban Poetposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I have my share of pain and blessings. No more or no less than I need or can bear. My comment is based upon the premise of this thread. To say that the violence in America is because God is not in the schools is simplistic. That is the point of my previous post to you.

              2. getitrite profile image82
                getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yet a near Godless country like Sweden was voted the happiest country on earth.  I guess happiness means suffering then.  Or is it that happy people don't need this imaginary God?

                Perhaps the belief in the supernatural is the cause of the suffering, and not as you are asserting.

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                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I've posted these stats a few time with no response. No surprise.

                  Japan 0.7% Christian.
                  Unemployment Rate: 4.6%
                  Life Expectancy: 84 years.

                  United States +75% Christian.
                  Unemployment Rate: 9%
                  Life Expectancy: 78.5 years.

                  Philippines +90% Christian.
                  Unemployment Rate: 7%
                  Life Expectancy: 72 years.

                  1. getitrite profile image82
                    getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It appears that the less religious countries are safer, healthier, and have lower crime rates.  Of course these stats must be skewed!

                  2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Rad Man I love you bunches, and I'm sure the stats AREN'T skewed, but it really doesn't point to religion as the causation... One could just as easily say it's because Japan doesn't have blue on it's flag.  Commonality does not equal causation.

                  3. lisariley11 profile image60
                    lisariley11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not understanding what your stats have to do with being a christian?

                2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Regardless of whether or not it's a "god-less" country, maybe it's because that country, Sweden, has gone through its own unique history; it's fought its particular battles, without and within; the people have evolved together and continue to evolve through continuing experiences, both positive and negative.

                  I suggest any country which, right now, considers itself a country that is close to "God," would do well to lift it's general knowledge of other people and other places in the world.   Do this without the ulterior intention of evangelising those other people, but just get to know them.  Get to know them just for who they are.  Don't do it for the purpose of commercial gain.   Don't do it to convert them.  Don't do it just so that you can bully them.   Learn where those other countries are in terms of geography.   Learn their histories.   

                  In short, get away from the idea that your country is "God's" gift to the world.  It's not!   Nor are its people!   You simply have to evolve together instead of against the internal factions.   Take some lessons from Sweden.   Doesn't matter whether you believe there is a god or not.

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                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Well put once again jonny, but your post needs to be directed to those that think prayer does matter.

                  2. getitrite profile image82
                    getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Agreed!
                                                 http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa395/prestoncouncil/like.png

        2. Rod Rainey profile image83
          Rod Raineyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What about the school shooting in Bremen, Germany in 1913 at St. Mary's Catholic School, where an unemployed teacher killed 5 little girls and wounded 20 others?

          1. Rod Rainey profile image83
            Rod Raineyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Or what about the Amish school shooting on Oct. 2, 2006 in Pennsylvania?

      2. A Thousand Words profile image81
        A Thousand Wordsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        +1

      3. skye2day profile image84
        skye2dayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The secular world gets religion and Christianity mixed up.  Being a Christian means we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The savior of the world. He died for our sins so we could live and not die in our sin and perish in eternal damnation. To go before God the Father we need Jesus and we ask Him into our heart, we repent of our sin and Jesus comes in to do the heart work. Sin becomes less appealing we still sin we are all sinners all except Jesus Christ. Sin becomes less appealing I repeat Gods grace and mercy on all of the world removes the sin from His children and remolds and reshapes us in HIS image. We are created in the image of God. Every man is born with a sense to want to know God. It is a hole in our heart. Only Jesus fills it. Nothing else will do not religion, not money, not drugs, sex alcohol, good deeds, or good works. do not get us into heaven. WE all sin we need a Savior Jesus that is why he came to die so we could live and not perish in our sin. 

        Religion which God hates is mans dogma. Men will twist scripture to itch ears and suit everyones needs.They add there own words of laws for whatever purpose.. To belong to Jesus we only need to believe in Him and repent of sin. He does the rest. Why do people blame GOD? How could they blame the creator for all the misery. Why dont  they look int the mirror and see they need a savior? Sin kills us! 

        Many change Gods word. There are many in the church of whatever (religion) that say they are Christians  SOME Christians do attend a certain religion church that does honor and love Jesus.The dogma is not necessary in Gods eyes. Jesus is the only requirement to salvation. No one else will do. Many do not hear the truth as in the word of GOD because it is not taught.  God has not changed or altered text. God is no respecterctor of people.. He is the same. Many religions have ttheri own god. Buddah, Mohamad, hira gira, the tooth fairy, unitarian any god gets you there, tarot cards, good fairy. There are thousands of different religions. There is only one Jesus who walked on water and performs miracles and died on the cross for our sins so we could have life and more abundant life and not perish in our sin.. There is only one Jesus who defeated the devil for us on the cross. He only wants our love.

        The devil ONLY comes to steal kill and destroy. He roams the earth to devour and decieve many. He has decieved many. He has used the word religion to mess up man. The devil is tricky and church buildings are a domain of his, a major domain. The devil lies. Many behind the pulpit lie telling the church what it wants to hear. Why for greed for fame?  IT is working well. Gods wrath will come on those that do not teach HIS Truth. Jesus warns us of false profits. Jesus is the only one that gets us into heaven and forgives our sin and cleanses us.

        Jesus loves you He loves all people. It is our choice on who we will follow. The god of this world Satan who is the enemy of our soul or Jesus Christ the son of God who died for our sins so we could be saved and have abundant life and eternal life. God did not do any evil to us. When we shine GOD on what do we expect? The devil is in his glory when people blame GOD.  God does not force us into submission. His Love is a choice. He gives us grace and mercy indeed!!! Plenty of it. He will turn us over to our own iniquity if he chooses. HE IS GOD. Jesus is a choice we all must make in this lifetime. Who will we follow? The God of Salvation, Jesus Christ or the enemy of the world and prince of darkness, Satan.  THE LIGHT ALWAYS PUTS OUT THE DARK.  We do not just pass from this planet we will die we move on to eternity.   There are two sides in eternity.  Love, Skye. God Bless you girl, I pray you choose Jesus. I know HE saves, He saved a wrench like me. I am so grateful. There is no love that will ever love you more or understand more or care more or take care of you more. Jesus rules. Not becasue I earned it or that I am good but because HE is good and He loved me first. Jesus loves you.

        1. adrianroc profile image81
          adrianrocposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Well said, Lovely. Stand up for Jesus my friend.

      4. Sojourner1234 profile image84
        Sojourner1234posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        nightwork, I believe your question is flawed. You insinuate that since evil happens there must be no  god; that, at least a good &/or caring, god would not let this happen. The flaw is two fold: you use a moral standard to weigh God's actions and yet where does your standard come from if not from a conscience God gave you? Perhaps society told you what the standard should be... or you just know what's right based upon...?
        The other flaw is assuming God does (did in this case) nothing to curtail additional terrible things that might happen to us... and to only cast blame for the bad and give no credit for good that happens to mankind as whole, or even in particular circumstances.

      5. Claire Evans profile image88
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        How much man letting this happen?  What happened to our free will? Just remember that God is fighting a huge battle with Satan who actually owns the world.  If a big chunk of the world follows Satan, and most do indirectly by putting themselves first, who can God fight that without infringing our free will?

        Why would God allow ANY evil? What is He to do? Strike Adam Lanza dead? Kill all corrupt politicians? How would the earth function?

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, Wow!   What leading questions!  roll  lol

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          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So your all powerful all knowing God effectively has no power. According to you he created the universe, but is weaker then the devil.

          1. lisariley11 profile image60
            lisariley11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            God is not weaker than satan by no means what so ever, if you don't believe in God I don't understand why even satan knows there is a God, before you go slashing Gods name like that you need to research, and there are a lot of knowledge out there that some people don't understand.

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              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I'm just trying to understand what she said. She said God was battling Satin. I don't see how an all powerful and all knowing God has to battle anyone. Should be like taking broccoli from a baby?

              1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                The Suburban Poetposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                The only thing I can figure in the Christian narrative is that God supposedly created humans with the free will to accept or reject him and placed them where temptation for evil (sin?) is constant and instead of destroying these temptations he has decided to see what we are made of..... I don't see it as a battle between him and the devil. If this is all true, I see it as a battle between humans and the devil, while God stands by idly, awaiting the outcome. For it appears that even though grace is a free gift it appears it is not free because temptation is so powerful that it is easier for humans to accept immediate gratification rather than waiting for the process of gold-paved streets.

                But I could be wrong...

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                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh I see. The all powerful all knowing God has thrown us to the wolves. To bad he doesn't just use some of his knowledge of the future to see how this plays out instead of allowing all this suffering. Sounds like a cop out to me.

                  1. The Suburban Poet profile image81
                    The Suburban Poetposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    That is just the way I read it... I'm not saying it's true.... but I feel I'm out here with the wolves as you say...

                2. lisariley11 profile image60
                  lisariley11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  While what you said is mostly true temptation is everywhere and it is a battle between us and satan , he preys on our weakness, but whenever there is temptation there is a way out of it, we are not perfect we aren't expected to be, that's why Jesus died for our sins, is so we can be forgiven. All you have to do is ask thats the promise that was made to us, and God never breaks a promise, you would not want Gods knowledge, and if you look to the future all you have to do is read your bible, and it's all there. I'm not giving a bible lesson and you don't have to believe me, but I want you to go to the book store, and go into the religious section, and read the holy bible, the war in heaven, and angels and demons, this will give a better picture of things, and ask for help because the bible can be confusing and seem a little contradictive.

                  1. TerryK81 profile image60
                    TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Amen. And it's bad that it has come to where many people in our world believe that BEING a TRUE christian is just about bearing the title and going to church and then not sincerely surrendering to obeying the Lord. "Christian" has a root word: Christ. It's about living and thinking in the same heart and lifestyle of Jesus Christ. ***NOT TRYING TO FORCE-FEED YOU MINE OR ANYONES BELIEFS HERE***. God made man in His likeness and image (Gen 1:26,27) clearly meaning we were all made to act and think and live God's way; then satan throws in the lie that since men are evil, that God is evil since we are made in His image. Jesus loves everybody, even people who do shootings in schools. He loves the PERSON but not the ACTIONS. There is absolutely no convincing me otherwise that God isn't fair, mercyful and love; Because for God to willingly give up His Son Jesus to be treated  worse than dirt and to die for MY sins shows that He IS love most indeed. For God to be as cruel as some people percieve Him to be and yet He gave His Son for a world that never cared for Him, clearly proving He loves us by making Him suffer for virtually every sin committed in every which way by every single person who has and will exist on this earth. His sacrifice is grace. He is grace, because we all are forgiven in Christ Jesus, so in response and gratitude we cease all sin in the life and mind and desires and live His way. He died to save FROM sin, not to save IN sin; meaning He did not die to bear our sins so that we can all sin willfully everafter. We ourselves may be the only Jesus anyone will ever see, and thats one of the big reasons people hate God: because of claiming Him, then knowlingly and intentionally living like mindless animals.

                3. AMBeery profile image85
                  AMBeeryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  The Suburban Poet: You commented that God would give us freewill to choose him and placed us in a world of temptation. Now, he is standing back and watching us, abandoning us, instead of just eliminating the problem. As Rad Man stated it "thrown us to the wolves." I know farther down Claire has attempted to explain why just eliminating the problem doesn't work.

                  As a parent, I face one teenager about to leave the nest. Teenagers are convinced they know everything and they don't need to be told by their parents how to do things anymore. Their way, their belief, is 100% right and the parent is 100% wrong.  We are just old farts with old ways that are so outdated and no longer useful. (a 2000 year old outdate fiction work is the comment I believe I read) We could attempt to force them into what we want, but it doesn't work.  We could hold their hands, bend the world to fit them, or just take care of whatever comes along, (eliminating the problem) but they will not learn from that. A 18 year old who is responsible to get herself to school on time, but never seems to do it, will not benefit from parents doing the job for her or the school bending her schedule, but to make the mistake, suffer the consequences, and learn from it.  Is a parent to allows their child suffer through the consequences mean the parent has thrown their child to the wolves (I am not trying to pick on the comment, but it is just the simplest phrase used to explain that point of view.) or abandon them?

                  God is much the same way. Eliminating our problems doesn't make us into better people or a better society no different then spending our time on here debating about who is wrong and who is right rather then starting with what we do agree and deciding that we are going to have a discussion without attacking. And attacking is just a Christian problem or an unbeliever problem, but an everyone problem. Just as we watch our children going through facing temptations and noting want to shelter them, God watching us face temptations and doesn't want to shelter us. Some of the worst suffering and pain and temptation that I have faced in my life as been the place where I have learned the most. Instead of taking that bitterness and using it as a weapon, I have been able to use it to make me a better person.  If it wasn't for the temptation, pain, or suffering, I would not be the person I am. 

                  God also doesn't abandon us in these. I have seen the repeated story about a teen girl who had ran away from home. The typical view that she could do it better, didn't want to be told what to do, ect. When thing got bad, she wanted to go home, but didn't because she was afraid her dad would reject her. Yet, word finally got to her from her dad that all was forgiven to just come home. Her dad didn't abandon her, but she had to make the choice to go home. God is much the same way. There, but we have to make the choice. We have to make the choice to "go home."

                  1. SparklingJewel profile image66
                    SparklingJewelposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    ...that is a good explanation AMBeery  big_smile

                  2. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Very well said!

                  3. Claire Evans profile image88
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Excellent commment.

              2. Claire Evans profile image88
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                God is battling Satan for our souls.   God can stand alone but Satan cannot.

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                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  What battle are you talking about that an all powerful all knowing God can't win? All he has to do is reveal himself as he has done in the bible. There is no battle Claire, prayer doesn't work.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image88
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    He will reveal Himself when a certain time comes.  There's know doubt about that.  Certain events need to happen before this event.

                    Prayer doesn't work? So you know the ins and outs of everyone's lives?

          2. Claire Evans profile image88
            Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No, it is mankind who has given Satan power.  Without that, he would be nothing.  I'd like you to know what God should do to stop evil? Strike people dead? When we say a mean word, ought He give us an electric shock? What are your suggestions?

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              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Is the God you believe in completely powerless? What power does he have? Can he feed the poor by growing crops in the desert? Can he make all guns and weapons disappear? Can he stop pedophiles from destroying lives? What power does he have Claire?

              1. Claire Evans profile image88
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                He has powerful in the lives of those who love Him and I can say it is great power.  And can God interfere in the affairs of those who don't especially when evil attempts to tear down His efforts?  People have given the power to Satan which makes Him the dominant force in this world.   

                Can He stop paedophiles? How? By interfering in their free will? By striking them dead? By MAKING them stop feeling this way? How about people start taking responsibility for their own lives.   

                Can He make all guns disappear? Sure He can but what would that achieve? People will found other ways to commit violence.  Do you see how unpractical this is?  It would be full of a world with God dictating the moves of others.  We'd be nothing more than robots.

                God can make crops grow but evil people can take possession away from them and the poor starve.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  That's what I thought, completely powerless. Can't and doesn't want to stop pedophiles. Sorry Claire that's pathetic, allowing pedophiles to ruin lives because he doesn't want to interfere. I know I'd interfere, as would most I hope. Should I be more like your God and just watch and shake my head? Don't blame Gods impotence on Satin.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image88
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    That's something you need to sort out with Him one day.

              2. AMBeery profile image85
                AMBeeryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Can he make all the guns and weapons disappear? By weapons, I am going to guess that you mean anything that can hurt anyone? So, God gets rid of guns, knives, axes, chainsaws, ect, but does he also get rid of every person including you. Your words attack and hurt others because they disagree with you so because they hurt others then they are a weapon making you a weapon. Does that mean that your believe that  God is only powerful if he has the ability to come down here and get rid of you? Are you basing your belief that God is powerless because he doesn't come down here and get rid of  you? Or, does using you words as a weapon don't count? And if that doesn't count, what else doesn't count?  Your request that he get rid of pedophiles... pedophiles is a kind of abuse so is it the abuse he is to get rid of or just that certain kind of abuse? You have physical, mental, verbal... a whole list or are we back to picking and choosing which is the great evil to get rid of and the lesser evil to stay? I think that by the time that he fill the request for weapons and abuse, there wouldn't be much left and therefore feeding the poor by growing crops in the desert would be unnecessary. If anyone manged to still exist, there would be plenty of food for them.

                1. Zelkiiro profile image83
                  Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
                  Then he is not omnipotent.
                  Is he able, but not willing?
                  Then he is malevolent.
                  Is he both able and willing?
                  Then whence cometh evil?
                  Is he neither able nor willing?
                  Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

                  1. Sojourner1234 profile image84
                    Sojourner1234posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It seems like perplexing contradictions which Epicurus presents, but the answer is rather elementary when one realizes who God is and how He has involved mankind in the development of the world and society. God created man with freewill, at times man has used freewill to choose to do evil, God has granted man time to choose good and to choose His will though will bring justice to evil in the end. God is both able and willing, but allows man to choose because God loves people and did not create robots (or cyborgs in this case, because it would be flesh over an endoskeleton of metal with a cpu neural-net processor). Putting all the blame on God in order to either dismiss Him or to try and get rid of Him is hardly profitable, especially when the blame should fall to us (mankind) to understand that our flaws are to blame… trying to place blame on our Creator, the One who sacrificed Himself for us (namely Jesus Christ), and who has our best interest in mind is not only counterproductive, but points away from the answer to which we must turn.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    In other words, if God were to be the very sort of all-controlling dictator that is so often decried, then He would be God. But if He won't be what we don't want Him to be, then all bets are off.

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Did you just call me a weapon that God should take care of? Because that's all I got out of that post.

                  1. AMBeery profile image85
                    AMBeeryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    If God is to get rid of weapons, then how to do you define a weapon?

                  2. Claire Evans profile image88
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    To interject, what this person is trying to say is that if God is going to get rid of some things that cause evil then He should get rid of anything else that causes misery. 

                    We have ALL done something wrong.   Now for God to remain consistent He should eliminate everything that spawns negativity and evil.  That includes vaporizing us when we say or do something we shouldn't.

            2. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Mankind has given Satan, like God, power by insisting that such imaginary entities exist in reality. 
              They do not!   They exist in your mind, and in the minds of persons who think like you do.


              Stop "believing" in them and they simply cease to exist; hence NO POWER.  Then you can come gently back to earth and give some thought to practical solutions for our difficulties here.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Where the like button?

                1. 0
                  Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  You may only have a like button when you decide to like everything I have to say.  tongue

                  Good morning, all.  Just perusing to see what the new thoughts might be on the topic today.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I always like everything you say. That's a given.

              2. Claire Evans profile image88
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That's a paradox of note.  How can mankind give God and Satan power if they don't exist?

                You can deny their existence all your like but you cannot alter the truth.  You just cannot.

              3. lisariley11 profile image60
                lisariley11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You can say that God is a fairy tail, and just be blind to the fact that he exists, thats up to you, but you will never say anything to make me stop having faith and believing in God, just like I can't make you have faith or believe, but I can tell you that there will come a point in life where you will wish you had of had faith.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  And I guarantee you there will come a time in your life when you realize your "faith," is egotistic self righteousness and there is no god.

                2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Lisa, if and when you choose not to "believe,:" that will be entirely your own business.  I have been down that road like you describe; believed in the god you espouse; spoke to non-believers like I was knowing so much more than they were; presumed I was in a better position for long-term survival than they were; reckoned they were destined for hell, fire and brimstone, when I could shout, "I told you so, but you would not listen."

                  I have moved on and can now speak with christians and non-christians alike, on a "level playing field," knowing without a doubt that each of us is equal and neither is better or superior to the other.  I can see the silly theatricals put up by religious people, particularly their priest, pretending they have some kind of communication with a powerful, judgmental master.  I can smile and empathise with you, sympathise with  you when your going gets hard.   Yet you cannot lead my life for me, and visa versa.

                  I have moved on.

                  Life for me, here and now, unbelieving, is MUCH more awesome and wonderful.  Might see you here one day.  The world has so much to offer and I cannot waste my time worrying about that "original sin" which you and your fellow christians talk so much about.  If ever there was a human concoction designed to lord it over others, the original sin lie beats the lot.

                  1. 0
                    Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Johnny,
                    I read your profile you said you couldn't be a Christian after your "homosexual nature became apparent". I totally understand if you felt the church had in some way abandoned you, but from this, how did you lose your faith in God. I hope I am not getting to personal, but I am interested in others journey in faith or lack of.

                3. 0
                  Spikologyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  There are a lot of stories about people finding religion on their death bed.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    With great respect to those who have gone through this, the persons departing and those supporting him/her, and not wishing to denigrate such choice as the end approaches, I see such an attitude as being a last-ditch-stand in the hope of getting a better place in "Heaven."   

                    If you understand, as I do, that there is a state of nothingness beyond the point of death, then it negates any appeal to a god in those circumstances.   It certainly makes the individual feel better of course.  And the on-going "hanging on" to a person after their death can make others feel better....and who am I/are we to deny that sentiment?   Yet in reality, it tends to remove us from reality;  keeps one engaged in make-believe.

          3. TerryK81 profile image60
            TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            My friend, who do you claim is stronger? satan? I assure you that he was driven forth from heaven by God and that the world you now live in would have been the condition of heaven had satan not been driven forth. Mr Rad Man, what power do you have? it is satan whose influence people choose to obey and not God's. satan forces the will, and God gives free-will. I will pray for you that God will reveal Himself to you in the dealings and situations of your life.

            1. 0
              Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not sure how many posts you have commented on with Rad Man or other atheists, but for you to outright state that you will be praying for them is an insult because they don't believe in God and some of them (that I have spoken to) actually would reject God if they had proof of his existence.. Just a heads up in case Rad Man blasts you

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                They know it's an insult too.  They say it because it makes them feel superior.  I'm glad that they feel they can use Jesus as a club.  I'm sure he's damn proud of his followers using prayer as a punishment/revenge.  In this context it's essentially a curse.  Cursing people in God's name seems a bit repugnant.

                1. 0
                  Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  And redundant at times. That's why i try to stay as far from some of those ideals as possible

                2. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Some Christians do use that phrase as a weapon, but the fact is that we're supposed to pray for everyone. Many actually mean it to be a loving thing to say, many more than those who use it as a weapon.

                  However, we can certainly pray for people without beating them over the head with the fact  that we're doing it. The Bible does say to pray without intermission. I can't exactly say that I do that, but I do try to pray for people.

                3. TerryK81 profile image60
                  TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I apologize if upset you, but my intent was not to use prayer or God as a weapon, nor Jesus as a club. With all due respect, if people can get on here and blame God for mankinds poor decisions and choices and irresponsibly insinuate that He is supposed to hold our hands, then it is reasonably fair and honorable to stand up for Him, He did for us. Everyone believes what they believe for whatever reasons. And to accuse someone of feeling superior because of misinterpreting a comment puts you in no better shoes either. I apologized and as for me, moving along.

                4. yurichurch profile image61
                  yurichurchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  yes it is ....

              2. TerryK81 profile image60
                TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you all for pointing that out. Really, thank you. I didn't mean nor intend to offend anyone or their personal or religious beliefs. I wasn't aiming or intending to use anything as a weapon. Just did not agree with how God is made to blame and I realize that I went a little overboard. Thank you and the others who pointed that out.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Terry, I am sometimes too quick to judge, just on the pretext of one Post here.  Sorry if I have done that here.   It's good to know your perspective.

                  1. TerryK81 profile image60
                    TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you for understanding that. You have wronged nor offended me in no way at all.

                2. getitrite profile image82
                  getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Who said God is to blame for anything?  We DON'T even believe in God, therefore, how can we be blaming an imaginary being?  By not providing any protection, or saving any children, it suggests that all of this talk about a God is delusional drivel...God is not to blame...He's just not REAL!

                  1. TerryK81 profile image60
                    TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    WOW! Listen to yourself! You just said "we DONT even believe in God.." and "imaginary being" and you accuse God WHOM YOU JUST SAID  DOESNT EXIST as being "imaginary", "delusional drive". For someone to say that, and yet claim he is not real, surely you must believe He exists, you just apparently have your own personal version of Him.

                3. 0
                  Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I didn't think you were doing it as a weapon. You don't appear to be that type of person from what I've seen so far. I was just stating in case that happened.

                  1. TerryK81 profile image60
                    TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you. Honestly. I am going to say this with all the humility and consideration and respect that I possibly can: We all have our own beliefs for our own reason, correct? But I think now of the dark ages, the martyrs, and these all -IN RATHER LARGE GROUPS - believed in God and died for Him. Some may say it was a cult. Yet a cult will murder THEMSELVES by their OWN hand, yet the martyrs were killed by OTHER HANDS. How is it that people can belittle and accuse God in some way or another for the evil that men do??? Have we not the power to choose?? These people who died for God lived their lives in total surrender to Him, EVEN  at the peril and endangerment of the safety and well-being of themselves AND their families; For people to accuse God of being responsible for OUR evil, then they should be scared because He may come for YOU also. Martyrs were the people who ended up being martyrs because they refused to deny the very One who blessed and provided for them. They prayed and even prayed silently and no human being answered their prayers. These faced torture, the witnessing of family being burned alive and skinned alive, and in their souls they had a peace and understanding and unearthly peaceful composure of mind and spirit that came from no earthly source or means. Look for yourselves, you who believe God is evil. I have prayed for things that no other knew of and my prayers were answered. I prayed for understanding and perception and will-power that by my own strength could not achieve and did not achieve, save only by the grave and power of God. I am not here to convince anybody, thats the Holy Spirit's power. And only He can do that when one is willing to see and believe the truth. So again, if anyone is offended, fine, curse me out, whatever. My words nor intent were not meant to offend or anger, but to just ask you to really, really THINK. Whats the use of trying to speak of God who loves you, when you refuse to believe. Hate Him and accuse Him of WHATEVER you want: I look to Calvary and I see a God who clearly loves us all, even though we did not love Him.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Wow, thanks for the prayers. I suddenly feel better and can see the light. I can see the errors in my ways. I woke up this morning 4 inches taller with a full head of hair.

              The all powerful all knowing God who has no power or ability to heal has helped me through your prayers.

              I will return the favour and perform a few muslim prayers for you as those are much stronger then your christian prayer I know this because in prayer God had informed me that muslims are right.

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Now this is funny!!

    2. wba108@yahoo.com profile image86
      wba108@yahoo.composted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I believe Mike Huckabee is on to something. By our choice to dishonor God, by placing barriers to Him in our schools and society, has opened the door for satan to steal, kill and destroy. This influence, I believe has dramatically increase the prevalence of mental illness and violence responsible for this type behavior.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Mental illness and violence are not responsible for this horrific act. The responsibility lies in the ease at which this person was able to get guns and ammunition and the fact that he wanted to die a famous person and the media is allowing it.

        1. peeples profile image90
          peeplesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So you are going to ignore lanza having mental illness? If we can fix the root problem, then we can fix it before guns would even be an issue. Most school shooters have been on anti depressant or anti anxiety medications. How can that be ignored?

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            There will and will always be mental illness. It happens in every country, but when you give everyone the right to have guns this is what you get. Without the guns what would you have?

            1. peeples profile image90
              peeplesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Probably what other countries have, different types of crime. We could get rid of most crime by dealing with mental illness instead of pretending it isn't there. Some of these people who become killers could be good people if helped. By focusing our attention on the guns we are ignoring the problem that makes the guns a bad idea.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Why not do both. Get rid of guns and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately we don't know they are ill until they do something that indicates a problem. Afterwords we can say it was because they were ill, but that is just clouding the fact that they had easy access to guns. The US and Canada have the same percentage of mentally ill, but despite the guns coming across the boarder Canada still has half the gun related fatalities as the US and most of Europe has half what Canada has. The fact remains without access to guns this would not have happened.

              2. EmpressFelicity profile image82
                EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Plenty of crimes are committed without the perpetrator having a mental illness. Or put it this way, some criminals might be mentally ill, but the illness doesn't necessarily cause the crime.

                Basically what I'm saying is that the majority of criminals are responsible for their own actions. We should remember that, because it would be terrible if this tragedy were politicised into "let's lock up all mentally ill people in case they do something bad". (Especially as for many people, mentally ill equals "anyone who is a bit different/odd/a loner/introverted.")

                1. Sojourner1234 profile image84
                  Sojourner1234posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  If you take away guns from law abiding citizens this will not solve the root problem(s). If you put all of the mentally ill away to ensure they do not have access to guns this will not solve the root problem(s). Even if you treat all of the mentally ill to ensure no shootings happen because of them this will not solve the root problem(s).
                  Just because someone is diagnosed as mentally ill does not mean they are; just because someone is now mentally ill does not mean they have always been, as far as the diagnosis process is through our present day culture. Obviously, there are mentally ill people, and of course it is in our best interest to ensure they have proper treatment, are also properly diagnosed and are not going to be a harm to themselves or others. However, our society is breeding people that are more prone to mental illness because of the amoral debauchery of what is being fed into their brain by the culture, drugs, alcohol, and uncurbed violence they may see daily in the streets or on TV. It’s not just people doing drugs, or doing this or that, but their parents, or lack thereof… much of the time parents do unspeakable evil to their children by doing drugs while pregnant, letting them do whatever they want (without limits), raising them with a perspective that there is no standard of morality, etc.
                  Who has access to guns if not the citizens? The criminals still do, they have smuggled them for years across borders and to other criminals (even have before with the help of the government). Also, the government does through law enforcing entities and the military. If the citizens do not have guns, or necessary means of defense, who is to keep both the government and the criminals in check? These two are not on the same level (just so you know my point of view), but corrupt government (again, not saying it is fully corrupt) cannot be allowed to have all of the controlling resources to push the people into the pen as sheep.
                  The root problems have to do with society becoming more amoral, the deterioration of family, the separation of God from the country, the lack of fear of justice being done to people who do evil, and the lack of fear from eternal justice which will be done to people. Of course I believe people should receive proper attention if they are mentally ill. Of course guns can be dangerous and used to harm in the hands of the wrong people. We need a balanced approach when dealing with topics, realizing that there are repercussions for getting rid of guns or declaring everyone mentally ill (or keeping the mentally ill away from other people). And we need to address the root problems like adults who understand evil is a reality that does not follow just any pathway out of society… it must be forced out through a stronger counter weight called God (and true morality).

          2. Rod Rainey profile image83
            Rod Raineyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Most mass murderers are also white males, peeples. Why is no one talking about white masculinity or the prevalence of macho nonsense in our culture?

            1. TerryK81 profile image60
              TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Population control. For example, . check AIDS was government made. check out "know and be free: the government created AIDS as a tool" at knowandbefree.blogspot.com

        2. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
          Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          you sound just like msnbc , in the days of the cowboys we all had guns and nothing like this ever happened

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            That's because we are no longer in the days of cowboys.

            1. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
              Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              thats my point

      2. twosheds1 profile image62
        twosheds1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        OK, which god should we honor?

        1. 0
          eastbaycoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Which ever you so choose, because in the end, we all believe in what we believe.

    3. Michele Travis profile image65
      Michele Travisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Huckabee is an idiot.  We need a Separation of Church and State.  God does not have to be in schools. 
      I bet he would change his mind if it came to Allah being in schools.

      1. Paul Wingert profile image78
        Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Allah and God is one in the same. God is in the schools, isn't God everywhere? I strongly agree in seperation in church and state or else we'll become a church/state. Let's take out the 5000 year old manmade factor (god) and tackle this situation.

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You can prevent America from becoming a church/state (which is a goal the Founding Fathers, the majority of whom were deeply religious, desired) without ramming secularism down the throats of people and forcing them to compartmentalize their lives so stringently.

          When America was founded, the majority of countries in Europe had official churches, mostly catholic but some protestant like England. They wanted America to be different, which is why the Establishment Clause prevents the government from establishing an official church and why the Abridgement Clause is supposed to prevent the government from telling people how to worship or whether they even can. In theory, at least.

        2. TerryK81 profile image60
          TerryK81posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          God is not manmade. God created all things,  the complexity and design of a sperm and even the abilities of the brain and will are courtesy of Him. He gives freedom of choice, but sadly when our actions or the actions of others hurt us or other people, then we go join the blame God club, sadly. the only thing manmade about God is the lies about Him and the uncharacterized representations of His Character.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Did god also create parasites and cancer? And what character of God are you talking about? The OT, NT or the Quran?

            1. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The OT and the NT are connected in very deep ways. The Quran is something altogether different.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know about that Chris. I'm sure Muslims will tell you that the OT and the Quran are deeply connected. It seems it's just a matter of indoctrination that forms the opinion.

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  But Muslims have a different OT from Jews and Christians. Most Muslims have never read the OT and they certainly don't carry it around with them. Muslim interpretations of the OT often put a different emphasis on certain stories, most importantly the roles of Isaac and Ishmael. Many Muslims believe it was actually Ishmael that Abraham took up the mountain, and that Ishmael was Allah's chosen vessel, not Isaac. Muslim interpretation of the OT is that it clearly gave the land to the sons of Ishmael, where Jews and Christians say it gave the land to the sons of Isaac.

                  To be clear, although the way Christians and Jews interpret and utilize what we Christians call the "Old Testament" can be strikingly different, the text is the same.

                  So yeah, a Muslim could say that but it's like comparing apples and oranges in many ways. And since the goal is fundamental truth and what we really will be doing for eternity, it's important.

                  Bit more than you asked for, huh?

      2. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
        Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        no God in state,and you get an evil gov.

        1. Paul Wingert profile image78
          Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Did you learn that BS in Sunday school?

    4. twosheds1 profile image62
      twosheds1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      He seems to be implying that the shooter was an atheist. Is there anything to suggest he was? Most criminals are believers, so having God involved obviously doesn't make a difference.

    5. rfmoran profile image91
      rfmoranposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Dostoevsky treated the suffering of children and the subject of God in the Brothers Karamazov.  Ross Douthout wrote a great article on this in the Sunday NY Times. Loss of Innocents http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opini … y&_r=0

    6. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      How do you know that mentally ill people are not aware of God? What do you base that on?

      It seems to me that in a case where answers are so singularly elusive, where the killer was uncommunicative in the first place and left no notes or diaries or Facebook postings, that in the face of such a lack of information, people are even quicker to cling to their favorite kneejerk reactions. Of course, this forum is about religion, but the overriding meme has been pro-gun control, triggering predictable reactions of anti-gun control. People saying that kids wouldn't have died if there were no guns leading to others saying that when guns are criminalized then only criminals will have guns are both equally correct and equally wrong.

      As a conservative Christian, I find it tempting to agree with Huckaby. But it's a facile answer, equally as facile as people who say that religion is the problem and if we did away with it the world would be a better place. I think his timing stinks. But the bigger problem with his statement is that by complaining that this all came about because we removed God from any specific institution, he actually further removes God from the discussion because then the focus becomes on religion in general and Huckaby in particular.

      We may never truly know why Adam Lanza did what he did. The fact that his mother was a gun enthusiast who had several weapons in her home certainly made it easier for him. And he may not have used any of her weapons. I don't know. But to say that religion is the problem here, or that Adam had no conception of God, are not safe assumptions to make faced with what we know, and what we don't.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree 100% with you Chris. This has nothing to do with Religion, it's a gun control issue and should be treated as such.

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It is and it isn't. As you pointed out, countries with heavier gun control laws (except I think Switzerland, but I don't have the time to do the research) have fewer firearm deaths but there are other, sometimes more significant differences. If Canada were to loosen it's gun laws, would  there be an automatic, corollative rise in firearm-related deaths? I don't know. But I do know that Canadians as a whole are a bit more relaxed than Americans and may not feel the need to own and shoot guns. There may not be the culture of hypermasculinity or individualism-bordering-on-narcissism in your country that there is in mine. Australia is the same way. And England has tough gun control laws, but it's also legal for the police to toss you in prison and hold you without charges, I think for up to two weeks. There are more controls of all kinds in England than in America. There are tradeoffs in that, and they're not always obvious ones.

          And the sad fact is that America has gun control laws. These laws might not have prevented all the various shootings, but they would have deterred a lot of them if they were properly and evenly enforced. Many street crimes would still happen because you can buy large amounts of munitions in some places and take it to other places where you can't, but a lot of the school shootings would have been at least harder to commit.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012 … -guns.html

            You are correct again Chris, there is no simple overnight solution. But clearly something needs to be done to get rid of the assault rifles. Our numbers below are high as a result of our close proximity to the U.S. Hand guns make there way over the boarder and into the wrong hands. We've had a number of brazen gang related public shooting in Toronto fairly recently, but none were using assault rifles. The above article is a very Canadian point of view.

            United States = 9.2
            Canada = 4.78
            United Kingdom = 0.25

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              It may have something to do with religiosity as well. The UK is now heavily non-religious. Notice how much lower the statistics are when you don't believe the people you kill go to a "better place."?

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Um, how did  the school shootings have to do with religiosity, exactly? If anything, the shooters in Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Columbine and Paducah were anti-religious, if they were anything at all in that regard. So this just goes back to what I said in the first place. Columbine especially, where the story about one of the shooters ascertaining that a victim was, indeed, a Christian before shooting her is not apocryphal.

                Because the starting point here is not jihad. It's school shootings in the US.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Clearly the UK is doing something correct here and the America's can learn from this. I personally think taking religion out of the equation is the secular thing to do. The U.S. and Canada are similar in religious beliefs but are different in terms of gun control and that is what is apparent in the statistics. Have a look at the statistics for the countries above the States in the stats and you will notice they are largely Christian as well and all are in close proximity to the U.S. except for Swaziland. I don't think Christianity is at play here. Only gun control.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … death_rate

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree with you for the most part, especially about Christianity not being in play here. Huckaby was playing to the base, but as a conservative Evangelical I was a bit gobsmacked when I read that he said that.

                    "I personally think taking religion out of the equation is the secular thing to do." That is a bloody brilliant line. I'm gonna rip that one off sometime.

              2. Disappearinghead profile image88
                Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Much more likely Mark is that firearms are not as readily available in the UK. Sure we all know that it's possible to rent a gun by the hour from a gang in Manchester for £100, but these gangs are not in the habit of walking into schools to kill children. Where there is gun crime it is usually at the drug gang level; a world that the everyday joe public is not exposed to. For the vast majority of us guns can be considered completely inaccessible. A mandatory 5 years in prison for possessing an illegal firearm no doubt helps too.

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  As someone with English relatives, I will say that there seems to be a fundamental difference in the way some things are viewed in England versus the US. I don't think the answers are as cut-and-dry as many people want to believe.

                  And although I hesitate to refer to Mark when not speaking directly to him, I will say this one time that a fundamental mistake that many seem to make is to lump all religions together. Although some teachers of Islam do, in fact, teach that blowing yourself up and taking "unbelievers" with you is a guarantee of getting into Paradise, Christianity emphatically denies that premise. So does Judaism.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I am making a mistake huh? I see no difference between you and the fundie Islamist. None. You think you know what is right for everyone else, cannot be bothered to do any research, feel comfortable lying about the history and facts behind your irrational beliefs in order to defend them because you want some personal authority without having done anything to deserve it.

                    The Islamists are just a couple hundred years behind you. We pulled your teeth years ago. We will get to them. wink

            2. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              That was an interesting article. I don't agree with everything Mr. Macdonald writes, but I do agree with many of his main points. I've never owned a gun and, aside from youthful ideas about the romance of being able to accurately fire a deadly weapon if needed, have never really wanted to. Especially once I had children, because I'm all too aware that most gun deaths occur in the home of the gun owner. I have never really understood the need for average people to own fully automatic, or even semi-automatic, assault rifles.

              I don't think guns solve as many problems as they cause.

              America does have a love affair with guns, we've never really shed the idea that we live in some kind of wild west where the self-sufficient hero owns a gun and can use it efficiently. But just as it was true then, it is true now that a surplus of guns in the hands of emotionally inexperienced youth equals dead bodies. And the emotionally inexperienced youth, the ones who can't shrug off insults real or percieved, the ones who feel the need to display a hypermasculine, alpha-male assertiveness at all times and under all circumstances, are increasingly inhabiting bodies that are no longer young.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for reading Chris, I once again find myself agreeing and liking you for your honesty. You may be one of the most honest and authentic people I've encountered in these forums. I may not alway agree with you, but I give you my respect. I'll visit all your hubs and give them the thumbs up.

                _____

                I'd like to add you have a lot of hubs and this is taking a while...

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Believe me, I appreciate the effort, but don't kill yourself. Although obviously the novel you can follow along fairly easily.

                  Thanks!

      2. Stacie L profile image88
        Stacie Lposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        A mentally ill person is not aware of God perhaps...
        per·haps 
        /pərˈ(h)aps/
        Adverb

            Used to express uncertainty or possibility: "perhaps I should have been frank with him".
            Used when one does not wish to be too definite or assertive in the expression of an opinion.

        Synonyms
        maybe - possibly - perchance - probably

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, but I don't think you put the adverb in there the first time. Even if you did, the question still remains. I think about stuff like that a lot.

    7. IzzyM profile image85
      IzzyMposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You know, I just recently learned about a tsunami which struck England in the 17th century.

      Tens of thousands of people were killed, and at the time it was believed to have been a judgement from God.

      Have we really evolved and learned from past mistakes and mistaken beliefs?

      We now know that devastating tsunami was caused by an underground earthquake. How many people were put to the stake at that time for being heretics?

      There is religion. There is science. There are murdering barstewards out there, walking the streets, just waiting on their opportunity to create carnage.

      They have NOTHING to do with religion, but it is hopeful that science might one day recognize them and stop them before they can carry out acts like this.

      When that happens, the good citizens of the US should be free to carry as many guns and weapons as they can afford, because nothing bad will happen to them.

      Normal people have no desire to kill others.

    8. Naomi's Banner profile image77
      Naomi's Bannerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Aww yes religion. So many like To use religion for the blame game. Yes religious folks justvshove their mambo jumbo down our throats and force us to eat it. 
      God doesn't force anyone to do anything. He offers a better way and our words create what we eat. We are given the power to create our destiny with the words that come out of our mouth. God is a gentleman and he guides using Love.

      1. getitrite profile image82
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Threatening someone with hell is definitely a form of coercion.



        God does not offer a better way, in fact, most of God's actions are vile and sociopathic.



        Really?  You actually think that the murderous psychopathic God of the bible is a gentleman?  A God that drowned the entire subject of his LOVE...including children...infants...the sick and handicapped...pregnant women and their fetuses...but spared Noah(a drunk) and his immoral family.

        There is something very disturbing about HIS definition of LOVE.  Have you even READ the bible?

        1. Naomi's Banner profile image77
          Naomi's Bannerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I have read the Bible actually several times. Mankind was wicked much like we are today. The difference is a blood sacrifice by a sinless person. Jesus Christ who gave himself freely. We now have the promise of salvation just by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believing with your heart that He is the son of God.   Noah was found to be righteous in Gods eyes that doesn't sound like drunk to me. Sounds like your Bible was written by a different author than mine.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Nonsense, most people are not wicked.

            1. 0
              riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              How can you talk for her?
              People always extrapolate themselves to others.

          2. getitrite profile image82
            getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            A "blood sacrifice"???  That's utter PRIMITIVE and SAVAGE nonsense.  Why don't believers ever use their own common sense?



            Completely useless and psychotic regurgitation.  How frightening that someone could be induced to believe such brazen nonsense.  Why can't believer use their critical thinking, instead of repeating the assertions of long dead, psychotic, Bronze Age goat herders

               

            I don't value the opinion of any God who would ask me to kill my own son to test my faith, or a God who kills innocent children for laughing at a bald headed prophet...or a God who knows nothing about the universe He, supposedly, created.

    9. Ratihegde profile image60
      Ratihegdeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      A lot of people have been writing about the easy availability of weapons being the real reason of this horrific crime. It is true to a great extent. But i would like to say that even if he did not have a gun, he would have found another outlet to commit this crime. Maybe he would have become a serial offender or a rapist.

      I feel that being religious helps in one way ... it forces us to meditate on our wrong doings. When we are able to understand which actions of ours are wrong, we are able to stop ourselves from repeating that action to a great extent. (I am not talking about petty behaviour) Today's children need to have some sort of training in morality and Meditation, not just at home, but also at school, where they spend a major part of their wakeful hours. It may not be religion training, but it should be spirituality training. Let us not think of this as a silly thing. In fact spirituality training can even help those who are bordering on mental problems to control their random acts. This is what i feel.

      1. getitrite profile image82
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So what makes "spiritual training" different from forcing religion down a kid's throat?

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently, perspective.

          If you dislike religion to begin with then I guess introducing it to a child in any way, shape or form constitutes forcing it down their throat. Sort of the same way  there's no difference between a Quaker and a hardcore jihadist.

        2. Ratihegde profile image60
          Ratihegdeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          @getitrite .... While the aim of all religions (at least initially) is to make the person spiritual, spirituality is much more than that. Spiritual training is the attempt to make people live harmoniously, it is an attempt to make a person aware of his ability to have love and respect for all life forms (including self) & then work towards it. To become aware, one has to meditate on the self & thus the person becomes more calm, more peaceful. If you feel that this is not possible in schools & that children will never like it or do it, i would like to tell you that what spiritual training does is that it sits in the subconscious. Maybe when the child is just about 10 he/she will find it weird or funny & will try to disrupt the class ... but when the child grows up & faces situations in life which are not palatable, he/she automatically knows that meditation helps & starts gravitating towards it. This could prove to be the one training that could reduce crimes and make people more humane.

          @ Chris ... yes it is perspective. It is the difference between being a liberal believer of God and being a stupid ritualist.

          1. getitrite profile image82
            getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It is apparent that children should learn how to be good citizens, as it is the moral thing to do.  What ever makes life better for the whole of mankind should be taught...Most of what is already innate in the child.  Instead of the word "meditate" I prefer the word "think"

            Kids need to test their intellect against the world's.  They need to rely on their reasoning faculties.  If someone tells a kid something is wrong, the kids should be provided proof instead of merely quoting a 2000 year old book...or any other dubious source.

            1. Ratihegde profile image60
              Ratihegdeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              my dear friend, there is a world of difference between 'meditating' and 'thinking' ... meditation is a process where you stop your process of thoughts, all those noises in the back of your head. But i do agree with all the rest that you have said smile

            2. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I agree. It is a sad truth that on both sides of the argument, people tend to use their predisposition as a reason to not deal with kids, either literally or by giving pat, rote answers. Kids are not stupid.

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            What if you're a conservative believer in God and not a stupid ritualist?

            1. Ratihegde profile image60
              Ratihegdeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              By conservative believer, would you mean that only your God is the mightiest and all other faiths are incomplete? Then i would feel that your belief is incomplete. If by conservative believer you mean that you feel that there is no question that God exists and that it is important that you surrender to that Almighty, irrespective of faith, but still you feel somewhere in the corner of your heart, that your religion is better than the others, then i would say that it is better to be conservative than be a non-believer. Just don't let your love for your religion undermine the others.

        3. JRScarbrough profile image86
          JRScarbroughposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          The difference between forcing religion down a kid’s throat and spiritual training is good parenting versus zealotry. A child who feels their parents care more for their choking down god than they do about the child is the child who grows up hating what their parents did by hating all religion and all religious people rather than what they should do, hate their parent’s lack of loving and caring parenting skill.

          1. getitrite profile image82
            getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You seem to be missing the glaring point that it doesn't matter how it is introduced to the child.  The fact of the matter is that, either way, the parent is LYING to the unindoctrinated child.  Of course when a mind is psychotic, it does not know the difference between truth and untruth.  What kind of LOVING and CARING parent tells outright LIES to his/her children...Either one who is psychotic or immoral.

            This lying to children needs to stop, in this generation, so that they will not spend the rest of their lives believing in fairy tales, as you grown-up believers do.  it's shameful.

            I don't hate religion.  If there was a religion that was based on facts, I would see no reason not to believe it...but what I do I hate is LIES!  And that, my friend, is all you have.

            1. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
              Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              what fairy tales

              1. getitrite profile image82
                getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l20/joker8805/bible.jpg

    10. 0
      Lybrahposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      He has a point.

    11. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
      Davidsonofjesieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Remove the Light and darkness will move in,when we removed God from our Gov. we also removed our protection

    12. 0
      Lybrahposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with Huckabee on this one.  If we all prayed Christian prayers everyday in school, I'd bet we'd see a difference.

      1. getitrite profile image82
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The Catholic school boys, who were routinely abused, said prayers everyday.  I'm sure you have an answer for this anomaly .  Get real.

    13. Jerry Hulse profile image77
      Jerry Hulseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The problem is one we do not want to address because if we do then we must confess there is a Holy God that hates sin. We have a sin problem and when Adam and Eve were driven from the garden because of sin and the fall, they could no longer look up but had to look out and measure themselves to the world around them. Satan had successfully convinced Eve that God was holding back on them just like he is doing today.
      The problem is this, We have allowed Evolution to be taught in our public schools telling our people that life is meaningless. We were a tadpole climbed out of the ocean or came out of a monkey and we have placed ourselves as the center of our universe worshiping the creature more than the creator and do not deal with the real problem and that is that there is a devil loose who hates all mankind and wants to see us destroy our-self. God gave us a remedy for the sin problem but we want to change our environment with our humanistic reason and say man can change but the Garden of Eden proves that to be false especially with Satan and his Fallen Angels working to get into the hearts and minds of our world leaders. thank God for the Blood of Christ which cleanses us from all sin and gives us a new nature to be created unto good works.

      1. Jerry Hulse profile image77
        Jerry Hulseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Did not most states require a person to be a born again christian to hold office in their constitution? And does not history itself and the way our Nation was formed and protected by a sovereign being as referred to be Benjamin Franklin  prove his hand upon this nation but the problem is we have allowed an infiltration of people from other countries to come over here and bring their so called gods with them but I have never seen a statue walk on water.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          How did they do that when the phrase wasn't even coined until the 1960's?

          And how did two of the founders of the Unitarian church in America end up being presidents?

          How was Kennedy President?

          Oh I could write a million questions but I digress...

    14. lisariley11 profile image60
      lisariley11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      In response to your article: in john 3:19 states light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because there deeds were evil."  People are born knowing that there is a God, because God instills the light in all of us, and through life we tend to let it go out, this is proof because it says it in the bible. I don't blame religion for what people do today I blame society, t.v., and video games, and just because someone is mentally i'll doesn't mean that they are prone to evil, you choose to be that way.

    15. Slarty O'Brian profile image86
      Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Mike Huckabee is a retard. But then I have seen few American conservatives who aren't.

    16. 0
      klarawieckposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Removing God from schools has nothing to do with what's happening. It shows that the government and society have to come up with a better way to deal with the mentally ill. People need to learn to recognize the symptoms, know what to expect and how to help. The government needs to take a look at the kind of help that's available to these patients and their families.
      We have a neighbor in our building who suffers from schizophrenia. She lives with her 80 year old grandma who refuses to hospitalize her because she doesn't like to see her grandchild all drugged up. Meanwhile, this sick girl keeps doing her thing - puking all over the building, clogging the toilet with the hair she shaves off her head, throwing bottles from the second floor, and breaking the elevator. The neighbors have gotten together and have signed a petition for them to move, but there is nothing we can do about it unless we have the money to pay a lawyer to take the case to court. There are babies living in this building, and this mentally ill woman could set the building on fire any moment. Not to mention everyone is afraid of her. :-/ Goes to show... they need to reevaluate the services offered to the mentally ill. An 80 year old granma living with a 27 year old schizophrenic who beats her, steals her car and crashes it? Not a good idea!

    17. Claire Evans profile image88
      Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      This is an asinine comment.  Crimes like this happened when Christianity was still in school.

    18. mattforte profile image92
      mattforteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I didn't read all the responses to this thread, nor am I going to.

      I'll just say this:
      A couple of years ago, Maurice Clemmons shot and killed 4 police officers at Denny's near my hometown. Maurice Clemmons had been in jail serving a 95 year sentence...but Mike Huckabee granted him clemency...setting him free.
      I didn't know any of these officers personally, but I do have 2 very good friends that were very good friends with 2 of the officers killed in action. This affected a lot of people.

      Obviously, Mike Huckabee is a moron. So anything he says means dog crap to me, whether I agree with it or not.

      Off topic:
      Fortunately, a lone officer ran across Clemmons not too long after...on a dark street at night, and gunned him down. He claimed self defense, and it may have been....but deep inside most of us know it was probably a dirty kill - and we are 99.9% ok with that.

    19. NotPC profile image60
      NotPCposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Although everyone has a different understanding of God, perhaps Huckabee isn't completely wrong in that we have removed universal moral standards from schools and everyone just kinda plays by there own rules. I have a hard time believing that one of our leaders truly feels that God is punishing us for removing his doctrine from schools. If anything, God is probably delighted that humanity is developing to provide a more tolerant environment for all different types of students.

    20. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I would blame us Humans first, We made up the standard for achievement in this country with out first making sure people all can even handle it!  When you can not keep up, either by development or money or for what other reason, then  people can get caught in problems and left behind. We never admit  that we create problems for other humans. Our Ego's refuse that fact. We have no willing demonstrated ability to show a means to sort it out and give real help when it is needed, Thus-some get butchered by the rest of us in one form or an other. The anger builds and it happens.  It is human caused and human made. God is a convient escuse, an easy ready made excuse to feel not guilty....think

    21. Codester0391 profile image59
      Codester0391posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Can what he said be disproven?  Logically, it would make sense.  What humans do is not decided by God, it is up to us.  We take faith away and a person decides to shoot up a school.  Shooting people was his choice; however, something that often establishes moral was taken away from him by others.  God let this happen? God doesn't save those who are damned.  Death is not a bad thing, but pain and suffering are.  I'm pretty sure each one of those children died a near painless death, being shot as many times as each supposedly was.

      I think people need to stop blaming their bad actions on God.

    22. 59
      lifegamerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see how that is possible, Stacie...That 'God' could be "removed" from anything...He/She/We are part & parcel of this whole sha-bang.  To even toy with such a thought simply shows mis-understanding.

      If thought out a bit deeper...Our political scene very much reflects our spiritual scene...Hmmm...not such a pretty pic?  Perhaps many do not bother to See into mirrors...or they do, with eyes wide-shut.  Tough to take personal responsibility of Life Expressed.(?)  But this is what We are doing...Being an expression of Life (God)...however, in our primitive thinking We seem to enjoy the drama of creating Holy Hell rather than Heaven on Earth. (btw...Earth is no less part of 'Heaven' than any other place or space...the sum total of which is Life).

      It is my observation, 'spiritual' is something one cannot not be...It is What We Are...Spirit beings.  Tho,' religion' seems to have deemed itself as a control-factor of humanity here.  Funny thought process, since, in my knowing, their main 'tool' is Fear, which has been well adapted by our politics, too...and in psychology are we not taught that Fear is other side of Love?

      Recent 'events' simply show that Fear is not a workable Source for creatures as our Selfs...If it were, the majority would not be in such up-roar, rather peace would be at reign, yes?  The more events that reflect this, the more We can See & be wiser for them...or not...simple choice, No?

    23. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It was the action of humans who murdered those precious children.   Whether a person believes in God or not is a moot issue.  During the time of more religious involvement in America, there were the Salem Witch Trials, slavery, and other forms of horrendous discrimination.  People intensely believed in religion/God then; however, religion/God was used an explanation for many of these horrific acts.    To stay that the decline in religion is responsible for the mass shootings is totally illogical.

      Belief and/or nonbelief in religion/God is inconclusive regarding morality and/or immorality. Throughout history, people committed heinous acts under the subterfuge of religion/God.  How many so-called heretics and other so-called religious outsiders were brutally executed in the Middle Ages and in some parts of the world, even now, because they elect not to conform to the dominant religious hegemony of the said region?  Millions.  Until very recently, the conflict in Northern Ireland was over one thing-religion/God.   

      Many religious people do immoral things in the name of religion/God.  Conversely, there are people who are atheists who are the epitome of kindness, charity, and morality.  They are an inner directed ethics which preclude doing any type of harm to their fellow man.  All they wish to do is to help humanity and obtain the highest moral good for all humankind.   I would like to put this issue to rest.

    24. Greek One profile image81
      Greek Oneposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      God shouldnt be in schools...
      He might get shot

      1. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No He wouldn't.

  2. getitrite profile image82
    getitriteposted 3 years ago

    Then how does Huckabee explain the following headlines:

    1. Suspected gunman in custody after Atlanta church shooting |

    2. Church Shootings In Ohio, Texas Stir Concerns

    3. Two dead, one critical in Md. church shooting - U.S. News

    4. Arrest made in Springfield church shooting - WIS

    By Huckabee's silly logic, it would appear that GOD HAS ALSO BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE CHURCH, AS WELL.  How utterly mindless.

    1. A Thousand Words profile image81
      A Thousand Wordsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Great points. But your point is moot for many of these people.

    2. 60
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      God wasn't missing from the Church it was missing from the killer.

    3. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Not necessarily. Sat in most churches, lately?

      1. getitrite profile image82
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I, honestly, have no clue what you are talking about.

    4. JRScarbrough profile image86
      JRScarbroughposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Getitrite, I’d have to agree with Mike if he says that God has been taken out of most churches.

      I’m going to explain it again so that you get it. Not every person who believes in God is a part of a man run religious body. I am one of those people. I do not like doctrine or self righteousness and that is generally what one finds within an organization.

      Also, I don’t want to save you soul or need you to believe. There are millions of people who are like this.  Your soul has nothing to do with my fate. All that shoving of things down people’s throats is wrong, but it is also wrong for any person to shove their own beliefs, or lack of, down anyone’s throat.

      When you equate a believer with being the same people who would bash you for not believing, you are just wrong for doing it. I’ve been in and around churches my entire life and have seen every type of character inside. Some of them are hell and brimstone devout and everything about even their fellow church people is not as Godly as the hell and brimstone person is. They deserve position and admiration and you be damned to tell them that they have faults. Then there are the meek ones who wouldn’t want to offend you and see that you don’t believe and don’t want to and so they keep it to themselves.

      Mike Huckabee was wrong. It’s not because schools have been secularized, it is because children aren’t raised correctly and tvs and computers are raising them. Both parents have to work these days to make it by and children are running wild and learning to hate their society. There are so many causes that I couldn’t possibly list them here. Mental illness, abuse, drugs and alcohol and violence saturation on a scale the world hasn’t seen until our time. I’m one to believe that God was never in schools anyway. What was there was personal gods and manmade self righteous religion.

    5. Cordelia Bay profile image60
      Cordelia Bayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      God is always present.....He, however; does not go against one's will. It is not only guns and people that use them that kill. People with their words and lack of understanding.....kill and rob people of hope everyday. Truly, we should think before we speak.....words, that bring spiritual death to another! Critical attitudes and perception are based on one's faith in one's own intellect. The truth is.....most have to have some excuse or reasoning not to believe. If one knows that another is being abused and does nothing to stop it.....does that place them in the same judgment that many are voicing toward God? Has one known about wrong doings, abuses, and practices that brought harm and death to other and did nothing.....how does those actions of one.....not govern the same anger, hatred and blame that many place on God?