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The Presence of God

  1. Billap profile image60
    Billapposted 4 years ago

    I've just read a Kindle book called "Of the Presence of God" by Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie.

    This book maintains that the divine presence is experienceable, but that it seldom can be felt because of the rushing, noisy life we all lead. Instead, in order to feel it, we have to go quiet and "turn inward" and wait.

    It says that the presence comes easiest to those who are not highly educated and thus have a lot of "thought chatter" and "pride" in their own thinking that gets in the way. On the other hand, the book also says that those who have these problems can cut through them as soon as they feel the emptiness that they have come to by relying exclusively on their own powers, and sincerely regret the path that they have taken, and call for help from the unknown presence.

    What do you think? Do you have a better way to describe contacting the Presence of God than Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie's?

    (Oh, if you want to find the book, you can just look for it on Amazon in the Kindle Store. If anyone is interested, let me know, I can probably post the exact link, but it should come up if you search for "Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie" or "the presence of God.")

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, I've got a better and simpler way to describe it.

      Psalm 46:10:

      "Be still, and know that I am God.
      I will be exalted among the heathen,
      I will be exalted in the earth."

      Your description of the book's intent indicates that the author is trying to "channel" God or something similarly silly.   And all the while the real prescription is right in front of his eyes if he'd pick up a Holy Bible.

      I can make that assessment with some confidence because you said "the unknown presence".    While the idea of "regretting" and "calling for help" is good,  it's not a novel idea, and the author doesn't fit it where it needs to go nor give credit, apparently, to the true Author.     Umm....it's called REPENTANCE and receiving FORGIVENESS from the Savior Jesus Christ.   A very knowable person!   He is described at length in the Bible.


      God isn't "unknown".  We can know who and what He is.   All ya gotta do is read His Word instead of lauding the supposed intellect of some earthly author who had his head in the clouds instead of where it belonged---in the Book that he should've been attentive to.

    2. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "sincerely regret the path that they have taken, and call for help from the unknown presence".
      this sounds like repentence to me.   

      To think that God  CAN'nt  be contacted through other means than the bible, is like thinking we don't have to have a priest to confess our sins to.

      How in the world did people contact God before the bible was printed I'll never know.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hmm.
        Jerami, what other book describes the one true God?
        Really?

        I didn't say we had to have a book.
        People contacted God through prayer,  just like we do today.
        But God gave us the Book, so He had a very good reason for doing so; it was so that we can more readily and easily know Him.   It is the history of mankind;   it tells us that we can only be saved by surrendering our lives to Jesus Christ.
        The point is that God IS knowable to a huge degree.
        We do not have to call Him the "unknown presence" as though He's some emotionally-detached, impersonal and uncaring thing.

        That's what the Apostle Paul was trying to get people to understand in Acts 17.

        v 22-24:
        "Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, 'Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious,
        For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, 'TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.'  Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him I declare unto you.
        God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"

        etc. and etc. including verse 31 where he expounds upon the resurrected Christ.

        Without the story of how God sent His Son to die and rise again for the sins of the world, so that whoever believes on Him can have everlasting Life,  the Athenians (and all of us) would be worshipping futilely in a ritualistic manner to a "god" they refused to get to know.    They wanted to kinda "channel" God too.   They didn't understand that God is a God who LOVES them so much that He came to earth to die for them.    You see, without the New Testament, mankind is still immersed in ritual and refusal to recognize the God who Loves them.

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I understand where you are coming from. And agree in part.
          A long long time ago though I did believe in "A" God and was confused as to who that "unknown" God was, I simply stated my confusion. God I know you are there, though I don't know which religion is correct and I don't want to be praying to the wrong one.  I prayed .."To the God of Abraham, Isac and Jacob"  amd asked for guidence and wisdom in this matter.
             I think that in the years that followed; I learned more about what is written in scriptures than I ever would have otherwise.   
             The closes distence between two points is a streight line.
             I think the shortest distance between us and God is to do something similar to that which the book mentioned in OP is suggesting.    BUT ?  I've been wrong before.

          1. profile image0
            Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That is the real one, yes.   The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.   The same God who manifested in the form of Jesus the Christ.  The One who inspired the Holy Bible.   The One who lives today, still, and wants to bring all men to the saving knowledge of who He was and is and is to come.

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              After all of these years ....  God never has answered my question as to which religion is correct.

              I sometimes wonder why that is?

              1. profile image0
                Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If you mean which religion...........well, it's obvious that it isn't Islam, and it isn't Bhuddism, and it isn't other religions, and it isn't anything except belief in the Creator God.
                If you mean which denomination, it's obvious that that doesn't matter really, as long as that denomination is Bible-based in its teachings.
                God didn't (nor did He in the form of Jesus) set up any specific denomination.   Men did that.   Simple Christianity was and is the true "religion".    Like the disciples had.   Like John the Baptist preached.   It is simply to take the message of repentance and salvation to a lost world, to tell them that there is a God who Loves them so much He came to die for them.   It's that simple.    Mankind makes it so complicated with all their different churches and specific doctrines that aren't in line with the Bible.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You appear to have similar problems with non-believers who have taken that line of logic to the next level.



                To the next level, Jerami. We know you can do it. smile

                1. Jerami profile image79
                  Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What you fail to consider is that there is a place  half way between Theism and Atheism.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    And, that place is ...?

      2. jacharless profile image79
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        LOL! Well said Jerami, well said. 5,000-10,000 years of human existence without a Bible, Torah, Koran, Prophet, Psalm, Proverb. How in the world did [He] speak to people. It boggles the human mind. How was it possible the 1st & 2nd Adam both experienced/live (or lived) in a perfect union of heaven-earth {aka always In The Presence}. One wonders. he-he.

        James

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Eh, according to that Bible you mock, God spoke audibly to them if He wanted to!
          So simple to debunk that question.   Surprisingly simple, really, James.  You aren't on your best toes today, are you?

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, back then ....    everything was basic basic,  They didn't have 1000's of interpretations  of a basic state of being.     No conditions in their being human. 
            I think that the book mentioned in the OP might be talking about getting back to basic basic, and that might streighten the connection of which we have never lost.

          2. jacharless profile image79
            jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oddly, we have been here before. Are we there yet?
            Your G/god IS the Bible and the mentions of attributes of Creator within, which became titles, which became wrapped in rules, which became a stumbling block to them -and cut them off {watch closely} from the Presence. What is the Presence? What is the true glory of the temple, Brenda? You've skipped happy stones across the Water of Life long enough. Time to get your whole self wet with it. Heaven-Earth IS the human being. Even the bible says that. Example: The 1st Adam. Second example: Second Adam {called Moshiach} not the Son of Zeus {Iesous/Jesus}.

            It took 1st Adam over 1,000 years to die, because of his self inflicted amnesia. It took just seconds to restore Immortality so none should die again. That Presence {that Heaven-Earth} is the promise, is Eternal Life. No Torah, Koran, Bible, proverb, psalm, prophet, preacher, pill, potion required; no Secret, no mystery, no hide-seek, rock skipping...

            To the OP and responders, you should not be surprised these things are coming into view. It has been predicted for ages this would come. Long overdue really. Humanities inception is nearly over; his evolution here. It is human destiny to once more become a complete, unblemished  manifestation of all creation: a reflection of Creator.

            To Jerami, yes, basic-basics. No conditions at all. wink

            James.

            1. profile image0
              Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I suppose you mean 1Corinthians 15: 47:
              "The first man is of the earth; earthy.  The second man is the Lord from heaven."

              That in no way says that the man IS the earth, nor that the heaven and earth IS the human being, as you would like to interpret it.

              I don't worship my Bible, James.   I worship the subject and author of it----Jesus the Christ.   A real man, a real God, at the same time.  The only one that ever was and is and is to come.   No matter how much you'd like to think you're God,  you are not and never will be.

              To anyone who has asked the question and will ask the question about how Christians know if something is from God,  James's post is a perfect example of that test I was talking about---------it doesn't line up with the Bible, and therefore is blatantly and obviously false.

              1. jacharless profile image79
                jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What? I must correct you here.
                I never, nor will ever claim, I am a G/god, that's for the pagans and folks who worship a man called Jesus/Iesous {the man-god or offspring of Zeus}.

                Second, humans are heaven-earth. Earth is Adam and Breath of Life is Heaven.
                "And into him came the Breathe of Life {ruach, ohm, pneuma} and man became a living being."
                Moshiach said he -and those like him- are also heaven-earth.
                In fact, Yon graphically describes the dwelling place of the "Glory/Presence" with the coming down {as if from above} the New City [Yeru Salem}, which is the dwelling place forever, that is in man. {Heaven-earth}.

                Stop worshiping words in books, worshiping a man-god or any G/gods for that matter, like a pagan. Stop skipping stones across the River of Life, waiting for a boat ride to "heaven". Like Petrov, you have to jump in both feet -that's why it's called faith. It's an unconditional, unrestrained action. Hope is skipping rocks, waiting for the next train to come...

                James.

                1. profile image0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ah.  So I take it you don't even believe the Bible, at least not the New Testament?   You think it's just an off-shoot of the myth of Zeus.

                  I will continue to worship the one true God.  No matter what.

                  I will continue to "skip stones into the water" until it interrupts your looking at your reflection there.
                  Look UP, James!   Then maybe you will see the One who actually did walk on the water.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That is patently false.



      That is mostly true.

    4. alexabda profile image59
      alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Jews felt the presence with their bodies - swords, hunger, slavery.

    5. alexabda profile image59
      alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Define divine presence. Is it like a dildo in one's vagina?

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Deliberate vulgarity.   Why not be nice instead?

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Vulgar, yes, but still a valid question.  How do you differentiate between that "presence" and your internal thoughts, conscience, subconscious, feelings, etc.?

          1. profile image0
            Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That's a far cry from a dildo.   So, no, the response from alexbda wasn't valid at all.
            Your question, however, is valid.
            I can tell you that it's hard to do!   That's why, when anyone tells me they've "heard from God",  I don't necessarily believe them.   What I can say is that, if it really was from God, it will line up with the Bible!    Preachers everywhere on tv and etc. will often say they heard God say that people should send them $50 or whatever,  or that someone is in need of healing and if they just listen they can get healed;  even well-meaning Christians sometimes try to give friends a personal message that's "from God".    I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm saying that that "word" from "God" had better line up with a Biblical concept, or else they're doing their friend a disservice.   And the person who receives such a message had better study the Scripture to see if it lines up, and should pray about it.
            I can't tell you exactly how to differentiate always.  There's no formula that I know of. 

            I can tell you, however, that sometimes the two coincide-----our thoughts, our feelings, and God's.   For instance, the subject of jealousy.   I've heard many times that jealousy is a bad thing!   That we're never supposed to be jealous;  that, if we love someone, we gotta "let 'em go, and if it's meant to be, then they'll come back to ya"...........Well, that's not entirely true!    Matter of fact, if we're not jealous, then we don't love them very much!    And while we can take anything too far,  the truth is that one of God's names is Jealous.    So when someone accuses a wife or husband of being jealous over the people they love, or their spouse,  they can remember that the word of God says HE is Jealous over his people.

            As far as our consciences, those automatically help both believers and non-believers to know right from wrong.  We can feel affirmation or guilt.  We know, by comparing our feelings that way, and comparing it to the Ten Commandments (again, the Word of God in the Bible) that greed, lust, hatred, etc. are wrong, and that Love, understanding, humility, tolerance for the feelings of others, comes from God.

            And a Christian can feel the Spirit directly at times.   That's credit to the Spirit and not the person.   Sometimes that's more a simple fact of knowledge, and sometimes it's a very emotional time.   God IS Spirit, yet that Spirit feels emotions; and Jesus sent that Spirit to lead us into "all truth".   There's nothing unbelievable about the Spirit being able to commune with us and instruct us if we already believe that God is Creator and Savior and is all-knowing and all-powerful.
            I'm sorry if that's not enough to help you understand.   If I can think of more, or of better, ways to explain it, I will......

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If I'm understanding your comment, things that agree with your personal interpretation of the bible are from God - others are not.  That you cannot think up conclusions and/or answers yourself that agree with that interpretation - that only God can do so. 

              I'm sure you will understand that an atheist is going to have a really hard time with that concept.  They will believe that they are quite capable of finding "right" answers themselves, without supernatural help, and a declaration that they cannot won't sit well.  The returning claim will be that you still have no indication that it is God - you just want to believe it is so and thus make up that concept.

              Pretty much the same with knowledge and emotion.  Atheists know they feel emotion, that they are capable of reasoning and investigating to gain knowledge.  When you claim God did it FOR you, well, it just doesn't hold much water as Atheists already know they can do it themselves.

              1. profile image0
                Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Umm.   Don't leave out the conscience and free will.   We each have a conscience, we innately know right from wrong, and we learn more about that from experiencing the results of our actions.  Like I said, we know that greed, envy, hatred, lust, etc. are wrong.  I don't see how even atheists could take that as God "doing it all for you".........We all make choices.  That's doing it ourselves.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No, we don't innately know right from wrong.  Although there are a handful of precepts that are almost universal (almost!) society and the culture you are in teaches the vast majority of them.  Consider the Aztec human sacrifices, witch hunts, cannibalism, wife swapping, etc.  All perfectly "right" in one culture or another.

                  But that's the point, Brenda; atheists say they do it for themselves, now you are saying the same thing.  So how do you know when God is speaking, telling you what to do?  You can do it yourself, you already know what's "right" and there is no need for God, yet it so often seems that God speaks (answers your prayer, perhaps) and suddenly you know what you already knew.

                  Or you find an anomaly in the bible, something that doesn't seem right.  Eventually God clears up the confusion, something you can already do without His help simply by finding an answer that fits within the bible itself.  So what makes it God speaking?

                  1. profile image0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Eh...because He is God and (unlike what James will tell you), we are NOT.

        2. alexabda profile image59
          alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I speak plainly.

    6. alexabda profile image59
      alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What the bible says is not divine presence, it's doing good and refraining from bad. That's it. Even Jesus' blood can do nothing more.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I beg to differ.   Well, no, I don't beg.
        I simply differ.
        Jesus's blood can do what is otherwise impossible.
        If you'd be serious instead of trying to turn this thread into nonsense, you might learn a lot.

        1. alexabda profile image59
          alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This thread is a nonsense. God is nonsensual. Discussing something that is not sensible is nonsense.

        2. alexabda profile image59
          alexabdaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It is just like ghosts or soul. Nobody can touch them or otherwise experience them. Whether any of those exists or not, it is only our personal perceptions and ruminations about them. Whatever the bible or any other book or preacher says, it is only words and a matter of belief or disbilief.

    7. kess profile image60
      kessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Reducing the Presence of God to a methodology is the beginning of  false religion.
      These belong to those who possesses external convictions , and have not yet establish the internal reality of the presence God.

      What these lack is the true Knowledge of God.

      So they seek after sensational experiences so as to confirm and reconfirm their belief.
      They need this because their belief has no foundational knowledge and
      therefore is persistently wavering.

      These are the one who seek after and create lies, deceiving themselves and and other.
      Thinking that the presence of God is here and overthere, which they are able to put on and take of  as a garment. So they run to and fro seeking after an anointing after the prohets that they have created unt o themselves.


      The presence of God is a knowing,  the  confidence of Self awareness,
      that is always present As the Man, and has no other form except the man.

  2. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    1.    and it isn't anything except belief in the Creator God.
    = - =
                  This is the foundation of all religions

    2.   If you mean which denomination, it's obvious that that doesn't matter really, as long as that denomination is Bible-based in its teachings.
    God didn't (nor did He in the form of Jesus) set up any specific denomination.   Men did that.   Simple Christianity was and is the true "religion".
      = - = - =
    WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL TO NOT PUT THE BIBLE FIRST; BEFORE ALL OTHER THINGS .             If we are not careful the bible can take on a life of its own and become as IF it were a God.

    3.       Like the disciples said.   Like John the Baptist preached.   It is simply to take the message of repentance and salvation to a lost world, to tell them that there is a God who Loves them so much He came to die for them.   It's that simple.    Mankind makes it so complicated with all their different churches and specific doctrines that aren't in line with the Bible.
    = - = - =-
            We all need to get back to those BASICS  as you mentioned above.

  3. getitrite profile image82
    getitriteposted 4 years ago

    I'm  Pentecostal...and this is the way we invoke the presence of God.  It works every Sunday.  Y'all should try it.  You don't need no stupid books to tell you how to do it.  lol

    http://youtu.be/07cmMhQxjfg

  4. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    Kinda tired of this title. And wondering about other.

  5. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    Oh, well... And not...

  6. schoolgirlforreal profile image74
    schoolgirlforrealposted 4 years ago

    I don't feel the presence of God very much.
    Not sure why.
    I have felt it a lot in the past.
    But presently I'm just tired
    tired of things in my life which I try to accept.....the thing is sometimes no matter how much I pray, my depression etc doesn't go away and
    Well, It's very hard though I must say
    I would not have made it to this day without God, I really belive He is watching out for me
    BUT he sure is giving me a heavy cross or large test and purifying in the fire
    which I'm not happy about, since it's almost too much to bear.

    Any tips to ease the pain?
    Basically I decided to just move forward and take care of other people to get my mind off myself , the best idea I've had. I mean it's so obvous I forgot roll lol (rolling eyes at my own comment, myself! lol I can laugh at myself

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Praying will never help. Dealing with the depression will require professional "human" help. That's just the reality of it. smile

  7. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 4 years ago

    The presense of God is nothing like you describe.

 
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