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If God wants total dependence, Why would He give us our abilities?

  1. profile image0
    Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago

    In quite a few discussions and forums, I've noted that both atheists and Believers state that the God of the bible wants (or demands, depending on who is looking at it) that his followers not only worship Him, but to also depend on Him for everything.

    My question is this, If God's desire (working on the premise that one exists) is for everyone to depend on Him for everything, then why would he give us the abilities that he has as well as the free will to decide how to use those abilities?

    1. Aloke Mukherjee profile image61
      Aloke Mukherjeeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Deepes, you are absolutely right. we have our abilities and free will to work on. We have fight through our existence to reach a state of bliss.But bliss is there to reach.

      1. profile image0
        Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you. We have so many abilities that we were Given by God and the instruction on using them, but some believers don't use them

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Abilities, such as?

          1. profile image0
            Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Hey ATM.. Was wondering when you would be showing up on this forum..Here is your laugh for the day.

            What I mean is that working on the premise that God exists (since I have no actual proof), There are things that believers pray to him directly for that he has already given us the ability to do for ourselves.. The bible states that we were made in God's image. I created a forum asking others what that means to them and I got similar answers from both believers and atheists that only pointed to a physical likeness or representation (meaning God is human with human features.. etc). When I look at that scripture, I interpreted that scripture to me that we have some of the same characteristics OF God, but not the same AS God. digging into that further, we have the ability to create life (but instead of doing it how God created Adam, we have to have sex). We have the ability to heal others and ourselves (with medicine and medical procedures as well as the body's natural ability to regenerate cells and fight off infections).
            Based on these examples as well as some other scriptures, I have concluded that in actuality, some believers pray to God and depend on God (if He is real out of respect to lack of believers) for wayyyyy more than they actually should be because most of what some pray to God to do for them they have the ability to do for themselves.

            This is why I have so much respect for atheists. You guys live a life that we are supposed to be living, which is a life where God is not interfering in our day to day lives because we have the ability to think, reason, and do things on our own as well as the morals and ethics to do the right thing BECAUSE it is the right thing, not because you are afraid that someone is watching over your shoulder and going to punish you for making a mistake or reward you at the end. 


            There you go. This is part of my beliefs.. I await your response, though I have a feeling that I already know what it is going to be (for the most part)

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I have yet to see you offer anything that supports your claim God gave us those abilities, or any others.

              In fact, we do have the ability to think and reason, yet believers rarely if ever use them. We have morals and ethics, yet believers turn to their scriptures that often contradict morals and ethics.

              Again, what abilities exactly did god give us?

              So far, with believers, it appears to be the abilities are only ignorance and intolerance.

              1. profile image0
                Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Maybe you missed it, but I did say that I did not have any proof specific that would support what I have stated. I am not asserting that what I just stated is the absolute truth. This is only a conclusion that I have drawn based on my understanding and as such I can admit that although it makes sense (to me), I could be wrong. These things are only my views and opinions. I don't hold them to be actual facts.

                As far as your general statement about believers and intolerance and ignorance, I agree with you that this is the case with a lot of believers (heck, there are believers that have blasted me when I presented this idea to them) it is not the case with all believers. Maybe there is something I said toward you that may have seemed intolerant to you (and if so I apologize, it is never my intent to offend), but I personally believe in live and let live. I certainly cannot and will not condemn anyone to a place that I have no proof of the existence of. I admit that I do not know everything, but I am still trying to learn as much as I can. What I presented to you was only a belief working on the premise of if there is a God (considering that I have no proof). I know that I have stated that I believe in God, But a lot of my views actually lean more toward being agnostic because I don't know for sure if what I believe is correct because it hasn't been proven and whatever i state here could be wrong  because it is only my opinion. Now once it is proven one way or the other then my thought process will change as accordingly.



                On another note, I appreciate that you responded the way that you did to me. You might think it is rubbish but at the very least you appeared to give what I was saying some type of consideration and not outright ridiculing or laughing at it like you do some of the other believers.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah, I get that. The problem is how can anyone arrive at those conclusions from your explanations. Mind boggling.



                  No, you have said nothing intolerant to me personally. No worries there, dude.



                  I would suspect that a more in-depth study on your part into evolution could show you how our abilities evolved along with us.

                  1. profile image0
                    Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    These conclusions are based on My understanding as well as asking what else could be meant by that specific scripture.  It may seem crazy to some, but it makes more sense to me than to believe that God interjects himself into everything that happens every step of the way. I have even been blasted by believers when I presented this to them as well. My comments were aimed at those who Pray to God for a baby (when we have the ability to make one ourselves), Pray for healing (when we have doctors and medicines), or for money and wealth (when we can go get jobs, start businesses...etc) then sit around and wait on God to provide these things. There is another scripture that says that faith without works is dead, which (to me) means that you can pray and believe God all you want for everything that you want, but if you don't put in the effort yourself, then you won't get what you want.




                    Ok, just checking since you made that general statement regarding believers, intolerance, and ignorance. I was hoping that you viewed me differently than other believers (other than the whole delusional belief in God thing...LOL)



                    I actually, I have read and studied up on a lot of things scientific (science was my favorite subject in school). This is why I don't think God is consistently doing things on a second by second basis (as some believe). I believe that God (if He is real) basically set things up from the beginning and then walked away (so to speak. I do not subscribe to the belief that God is micro managing every aspect of our lives.  Whether it is proven that God does not exist, I appreciate the answers that science and those who have researched and studied have provided up to this point and continuing to find more answers

    2. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Good question. I think that if the Adam & Eve fable tells us anything it's that God expects us to be grown up, use the God given abilities we have, make our own decisions, and accept full responsibility for the choices we make. I think Christians confuse the statement attributed to Jesus about coming to the Father as a child that they must be totally dependant upon him for every detail of their lives. This is enforced by the idea that we're useless filthy sinners capable of nothing.

      1. profile image0
        Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Good points DPH.

  2. janesix profile image60
    janesixposted 3 years ago

    Because God wants you to choose to be good. It's still a choice, but you have to be sincere.

    1. profile image0
      Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for responding, but my question wasn't a question on doing right or doing wrong. My question is more about those who Depend on God totally for everything. A lot of Christians pray that God's will be done in everything they do and pray that God gives them everything, then they sit and wait, which negates more than a few scriptures in the Bible. with that being said, I ask again, if We are to totally be dependent on God for EVERYTHING, why would God have give us our abilities?


      You also made a good point. If God wants us to make the choice to do good for ourselves so he gave us free will, that would (or should IMO) negate the concept that he wants us totally dependent to the point where he steps in and interferes with everything

  3. profile image0
    Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago

    Ok.. That conversation is done (as far as I'm concerned). Back to the original topic of this forum

  4. JMcFarland profile image92
    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago

    A Morass of crap.  Wow.  That's some love you have there for other human beings.

    1. profile image0
      Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hey JM.. Nice to see you.. Hey, Before you jump into that conversation, can you answer my question?? Thanks..

      1. JMcFarland profile image92
        JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I think the answer is simple.  Christianity has told people that they have a disease, and then provided the cure for it before that disease has ever been sufficiently established.  It tells people from an incredibly young age that they're worthless without god.  They're evil.  Tainted.  Sinful.  Then they provide the cure of "salvation" for all of the immorality. 

        It's when you start to break out of that when you start to see different truths.  I think Christians are taught to be dependent on god and to distrust their own instincts and intelligence.  Christianity from the beginning has De-emphasized learning, intelligence and knowledge.  After all, it's the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that damned mankind to begin with.  And again, I say - without the knowledge of good and evil, it's impossible to know that what you're doing is wrong and be condemned forever because of it.  I think that this indoctrination has led current believers to distrust their abilities, instincts and knowledge SO MUCH that they're completely incapable of recognizing that they CAN do things for themselves without divine help, which I find remarkably sad.

        If god already has a predetermined plan for every single individual on the planet, then intercessory prayer becomes irrelevant.

        1. profile image0
          Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for your answer, my friend

        2. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It is not difficult to understand why the world is in its current state. We embrace mindless ideologies based on belief systems. It's little wonder why schools never get proper funding, why research grants are given away to cranks and crackpots from politicians driven by the good book.

    2. janesix profile image60
      janesixposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The world isn't a morass of crap? Please, tell me what is wonderful about it, can you find anything about it that humans haven't ruined yet?

      And what does that have to do with my love for other human beings? I at least have enough compassion to try to wake you sleepers UP.

      1. JMcFarland profile image92
        JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That's a kind of compassion (through judgment and self-righteous indignation) that I can do without, thanks.

      2. profile image0
        Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        If what you have spoken is your idea of love and compassion... I pass. Thanks anyway

      3. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That's what happens when  you leave responsibility in the hands of believers.



        *yawn*

      4. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Are you joking? I've been all over the planet and have seen sites that took my breath away, some right in my own back yard. It's not really possible to not find wonder in so many places.

 
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