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I am a Preterist Universalist

  1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
    SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago

    Preterism is a friend to the universalist. If Matt 25 and Revelation refer to past events rather than future ones, there are no texts left for the proponents of endless torment to use?

    1. Silverspeeder profile image61
      Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      And what if they refer to future events?

      1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
        SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The question I asked was if they were past events, what scripture is left to support endless torment.

        1. Silverspeeder profile image61
          Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          There are no scriptures that point to endless torment only to the inevitability of death with no chance of Resurrection.

          The things in revelation are happening now, the end days.

          1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
            SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I totaly disagree. One, Christ will drag all mankind to Him, and two, The end days prophecy is a false prophecy. Revelations was written just before the destruction of Jerusalem. The evidence is found in the book.

            1. Silverspeeder profile image61
              Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Jerusalem still exsists?

              And the Devil and his followers will be cast down into the pit?

              Wars and reports of wars, famine, pestilence and earthquakes?

              The love of the greater number will cool off?

              All these things are happening now, you can't deny things are worse than they have ever been and all starting from 1914.

    2. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I am a preterist when it comes to the seven seal judgments. From that point on I am Historists concerning the trumpet and bowl judgments.

      1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
        SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Then that makes you a partial-preterist, I may be one as well.

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Had company come over ... sorry about the delay
          The only thing that makes sence to me is that the seals were inflicted upon the Hebrew Nation, the trumpet s were upon the Roman Empire from approx 538 thru apptox 900 AD. The bowls began around 1240ish with the bubonic plague.
          The seventh trumpet and seventh bowl have yet to have been played out yet.

          edit   gota go to H Depot back in a little bit.

          1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
            SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, I believe that these events writen about already occurd AD70, as the temple was still standing. The harlot in revelations is none other than the city of Jerusalem. In the OT, there are many verses where God calls her a prostitute and harlot.

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, I believe that these events writen about already occurd AD70, as the temple was still standing. The harlot in revelations is none other than the city of Jerusalem. In the OT, there are many verses where God calls her a prostitute and harlot.
              Well I think that the first five seals were opened as soon as Jesus apeared in heaven after his death,the fifth happened when Pompae was destroyed in 62 with a huge earthquake and then 17 years later when Vesuvious errupted in 69. This is also when the tenth king (the ten horns of the fourth Beast as described in Daniel apeare).   The 69th week was finished when Jesus apeared to John.
                when the Little Horn (Hadrian) came to his end. Daniel 11:44 and 12:1 was fulfilled.(happened in 138 AD when the 14th king belonging to the fourth beast came to his end)

              Gotta run again  back in an hr.

              1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
                SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                What about the sixth horn written in Rev 17? there was only one Roman emperor in the Julian line that persecuted Christians, and that was Nero. His name in the Hebrew gematria adds up to 666?

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I can’t adequately explain this train of thought as well as I can think it .. but ??
                  I think that these seven kings (rev 17:10) are speaking of the seven kingdoms which had recieved and will recieve dominion over the holy land; "five has fallen",  Syria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire .  “five have fallen and one is and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh he must continue a short space.  I think this would have been the Holy Roman Empire also known as the Byzantine Empire.
                  The seventh would be the rise of the Islamic nations. Their control lasted until the end of WWII. 
                  The beast that was and is not, even he is the eight, and is of the seven and goeth into perdition.       Many theologians perceive the eighth to be some sort of resurrection of the Roman Empire. 
                  V7. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth
                  V15  the waters which thou sawest are peoples, and nations and tongues. … this is why I do not believe that the city where the woman sitteth is Jerusalem. For Jerusalem has never held power of any kind over nations. I think the woman would have to be Rome at least until Vatican City became a nation of itself, which in the minds of many people is still Rome except for the technicality of it being a nation of itself.
                  Few people is any at all will agree with this concept yet I will continue to hold it.


                  I think that these seven kings (rev 17:10) are speaking of the seven kingdoms which had recieved and will recieve dominion over the holy land. "five has fallen"

                  1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
                    SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    What you fail to see is that the 6th king was already present when the book was written, because it says in Rev 17, the sixth king was there at that time. "10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come;"

                    The seventh king was not there yet.

    3. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Me too. However I'm not convinced by Revelation. Perhaps I'll write a hub one day.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It was Revelation that convinced me the most, but only after I began examining in depth the timeline comparison of prophetic time and that time which passes in what we consider to be real time.
        62 weeks is 568 of our years. the way I understand Daniel 9:26.  A week in prophesy would about 9.166 of our years. A day = 1.31 of our years. A Time = 470 years. 42 months = 1648 years.

        Whether this application is correct or not, When we apply these equations every time these periods of time are mentioned in prophesy, The story seems to make some sense.

        1. Ericdierker profile image82
          Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Other than Daniel 9:26 is there some good literature on this method of time and dating?

          1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
            SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Here is a web site Eric. i found it very interesting.

            http://www.christianevidences.org/messe … -70ad.html

            1. Ericdierker profile image82
              Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I was hoping to find the graph and citations for "A day = 1.31 years".
              The site was interesting though. Thanks

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I wrote a hub years ago by that name which gives my understanding as to how this equation comes into affect.

          2. profile image71
            Robertr04posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Jerami, I'm curious. A time= 470 yrs? A day in prophecy= 1.31 yrs.? A week= 9.166 yrs? 42 mos.=1648yrs? Where/who may I ask, do you get this info from?

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I came up with it myself by simply reading the words which are written in the Book of Daniel. These words are supposed to have been spoken by Gabriel who is said to be Gods Messenger Angel and sence we are not supposed to apply any sort of private interpretation to prophesy in scripture, I take these words at face value.
              V.1  identifies  the year this vision came to Daniel to be around 538 BC.  Also see Ezra 1st chapter.
              V23  Gabriel tells Daniel that the Commandment has gone forth.
              V25 & 26 .. from the going forth  of the commandment  it shall be 69 weeks unto messiah The Prince and after 26 weeks they shall kill the Messiah.
              If 568 years pass until Jesus in killed on the cross and if Jesus was the messiah then 568 years in prophesy would have to be equal to 62 weeks on earth, You have to read these verses uninfluenced by previously learned interpretations. Read them unhindered by preconceived ideas which has been taught.  A week would be 9.16 of our years.   At that time, each month in the Hebrew calendar has 30 days. So 42 months is 1260 days.      30 days X 42 = 1260 days or 180 weeks. 180 X 9.16 = 1648.8 of our years. When the word "a Time" is referred to in prophesy this is 52.2 prophetic weeks = 478 years.. 
              I got the definition of a time from C 12:7 & 11   The angel sait it shall be for a time times and an half ..and Daniel says  What  ? I don’t understand (??)  So the angel rephrased his statement and said it shall be yet for 1290 days.
              So a time, times and an half is the same as 1290 days.  When we continue with the math we see that a “Time”  is 52;2 prophetic weeks the same number of  weeks as in one of our years. A time would be 478 of our years.   The 42 months that the beast was given in Rev. 13 would be = to 1648 of our years.
              Seems like simple analytical deduction to me.  But I’m no expert. I took a decade trying to prove this theory wrong and couldn’t.  The only thing I proved is that  if this is true? there are many many falsely interpreted verses been taught is Church.
                Now reverse the calander counting backwards from todays date and see what was going on at that time ???

              1. profile image71
                Robertr04posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Jerami, I'm a little confused. You say a time is equal to 478 yrs. and that a time, times, and half a time equals 1260 days/years(chap.12:7,11)? 478 days/1yr (12 mos) + 956 days/ yrs ( times=24 mos) + 239 days/yrs (1/2 time=6mos) = 1673 days/yrs. This would eliminate chap.12:7,11 as being anywhere near being accurate. As far as Rev.13, time=360 days/yrs (12 mos) + times= 720 days/yrs (24 mos) + 1/2 time= 180 days/yrs (6 mos)= 1260 days/yrs or 42mos. To really understand this prophecy you may need too think about 2300 days/years. This is what Daniel had problems with (verse 8) The day for a year principle numbers among its supporters such names as Augustine, Tichonius, Primasius, Andreas, the Venerable Bede, Ambrosius, Ansbertus, Berengaud, and Bruno Astensis, besides the leading modern expositors. But what is more conclusive than all else is the fact that the prophecies have actually been fulfilled on this principle. This will be found in the prophecy of the 70 wks throughout and all the prophetic periods of Daniel 7 and 12 and Rev. 9, 12, 13. You have actually given me inspiration to write a hub on this matter (70 wks) smile Check it out and lets exchange views on Rev and Daniel.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  As I said before; I'm just taking what Gabriel said to Daniel as a true statement and disregarding what any one else tells me. I'm reading what Gabriel said to be the Gospel truth,  forgetting everything else that I think I know. Then read what Gabriel said to Daniel.
                  If we don't take what Gods messenger ANGEL says literally, then we can’t take any thing else literally either.
                  Gabriel said in 538 BC (give or take a few months) that in 62 weeks they are going to kill the Messiah.
                  In either AD,  26, 30, or 33 Jesus died.   If he was the Messiah, Gabriel’s prophesy was fulfilled approx 568 years later. So a week in prophesy has to be approx 9.16 of our years.  If we are to believe the Angel of God.
                  Really think about that for a moment.  ………….  Now If we can’t take him literally what can we?
                  62 weeks = 568 years
                  A week = 9.16 of our years
                  42 months = 1260 days = 180 weeks = approx 1648 of our year.
                  A time, times and a half = 1290 days = approx 184 weeks = approx 1685 years
                  A time = approx. 480 of our years.
                  Anything that any so called expert tells me is going to have to fall in line with what this statement above or I won’t believe him.
                  It is written that a day is as a year to God …  and the other way around.  God is timeless they say, So why take that statement as gospel, that we should use a day for a year method in comparing our time and prophetic time. That would be like comparing apples to cucumbers or watermelons.

                  1. profile image71
                    Robertr04posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    In chap8 the manner in which Gabe introduces himself shows that he has come to complete some unfinished mission. We agree on this.This can be nothing less than to carry out the instruction to make this man "understand the vision", as recorded in Dan.8. He says ,"I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding".  As the charge still still rested upon him to make Dan. understand, and as he had explained to Dan. in chap8 all that he could then bear, and yet he did not understand the vision, he now comes to resume his work and complete his mission. You and I are still on the same page. As soon as Dan. began his fervent supplication, the commandment came forth; for Gabe to visit Dan., and impart to him the requisite information. The command came forth for Gabe to interpret the vision to Dan. "Understand the matter", he says to Dan. What matter? Evidently that which he did not before understand in the last verse of Dan.8. Agreed? "Consider the vision". What vision? Not the  interpretation of Neb's image, nor the vision of Dan.7, for there is no difficulty with either of these; but the vision of Dan.8, in reference to which his mind was filled with astonishment and lack of understanding. "I am come to show thee", also said the angel. The burden of Dan's petition was in respect to the repairing of the desolations of the sanctuary, which lay in ruins. He had undoubtedly drawn the conclusion that the time when the end of the 70 yrs captivity came was the time for fulfillment of what the angel had said in regard to the cleansing of the sanctuary at the end of the 2300 days.  Vs24 70 wks. These are the first words the angel uttered to Dan. in imparting to him that instruction which he came to give. Why did he abruptly introduce a period of time? We again refer to chap8.Some parts of the vision were at the time clearly explained. That could not be the problem. In that vision four prominent thinds are brought to view: the ram, the he-goat, the little horn, and the period of 2300 days. The symbols were explained, but nothing was said respecting theperiod of time. This must therefore have been the point that he did not understand. There are four events whichcan be taken as answering to the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. 1) the decree of Cyrus for the rebuilding of the temple, 536bc.(Ezra1:1-4). 2) The decree of Darius for the prosecution of that work which had been hindered, 519bc (Ezra6:1-12). 3) The  decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra, 457bc (Ezra7). 4) The commission to Nehemiah from the same king in his 20th year, 444bc (Neh.2). With the first two of these decrees, the 70 prophetic weeks, or 490 literal yrs, would fall many years short of reaching even to the Christian era.These two decrees made a beginning of the work. They were preliminary to what was afterward accomplished. Now reckoning from the commission of Nehemiah, 444bc, the 69 wks, or 483 yrs, which were to extend to the Mashyach would bring us to a.d.40; but Yahusha was baptized by John 13 yrs before (S.Bliss, Analysis of Sacred Chronology, pp180,182; Karl Weiseler, A Chronological Synopsis of the Four Gospels, pp.164-247). I know to you, so called expert opinion means nothing, but, to me it beats the heck out of guessing smile (no sarcasm intended). Acording to this calculation, the midst of the last or 70th wk, which is marked by the crucifixion, is placed in 44 a.d., but the cruxifixion took place in 31a.d., 13 yrs previous. And lastly, the 70 wks, or 490 yrs, dating from the 20th year of Artaxerxes, would extend to a.d.47, with absolutely nothing to mark their termination. So if that be the year, and the grant to Nehemiah the event, from which to reckon, the prophecy has proven a failure. It is evident that the decree granted to Ezra in the 7th year of Artaxerxes, 457a.d., is the point from which to date the 70 wks. That was the going forth of the decree in the sense of the prophecy. The two previous decrees were preparatory and preliminary to this. Indeed they are required by Ezra as parts of it, the three being taken as one great whole. For in Ezra6:14 we read: "They builded , and finished it, according to the commandment  of  the Alahym of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia". It will be noticed that the decrees of these three kings are spoken of as one, showing they are all reckoned  as a unit, the different decrees being but the successive steps by which the work was accomplished. This decree could not be said to have "gone forth" as intended by the prophecy, until the last permission which the prophecy required was embodied in the decree, and clothed with the authority of the empire. This point was reached in the grant to Ezra, but not before. Here the decree assumed the proportions and covered the ground demanded by the prophecy, and from this point its "going forth" should be dated. Will these dates harmonize if we reckon from the decree to Ezra (457a.d.)? I've already written a hub here, so to keep from boring anyone, any longer, I'll write that hub smile

    4. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      revelation refers to internal individual events

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It may refer to many things but lets not forget 2nd Peter 1:20 ...    Knowing this first that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation.
             And yet that is exactly what has been going on for so long that these interpretations are embeded into our subconcious that we do not read these prophesy unblemished from these interpretations which has infiltrated even the teaching institutions.  and we are unaware.

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          revelation isn't a prophesy

          it's a badly worded description of alchemy

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I could be wrong?  I won't debate the issue, but I will express my opinion till the sun goes down if any one wants to hear it.  And I'll express it once in a while even when they don't.  If anyone can explain to me where or why my opinion is incorect I welcome being corrected. But I believe that prophesy is exactly what the book of Revelation is, ... prophesy.

            1. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Nothing wrong with sharing your opinion. I have mine, you have yours, no biggie.

  2. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 3 years ago

    SwordofManticorE wrote:
    I totaly disagree. One, Christ will drag all mankind to Him, and two, The end days prophecy is a false prophecy. Revelations was written just before the destruction of Jerusalem. The evidence is found in the book.
    =================

    If John was on the Isle of Patmos at the time, these visions had to have been received before 97AD and after around 86, Don't remember for sure the exact year  when this prison was opened. Upon closer examination it is believed that 96 AD was when they were received, cause the prison was closed down in 97.
    I think this represents the 69th week as described in Daniel?  Upon being released from Patmos, John returned to preaching as described in Rev. 10.  The last recorded date for John to have still been alive was 109 AD which did not mention his death.  At this is what I understand these facts to be.

    1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The many "coming soon" and "at hand" passages (1:1, 2:16, 3:11, 22:6-20) only make sense if events matching the symbolism of Revelation were not too far in the future. The Jewish themes would make no sense after 70 A.D. - there was nothing left of the Jewish state.

      The Beast (which most if not all scholars agree represents Rome) was ruled by its 6th head ("head" = "king" see: 17:10) which was already in existence in John's day. Of the 7 heads (kings) only one was left - by 95 A.D. Rome was long past its 7th Caesar.

      A 2nd Century manuscript of Revelation says it was written when Nero was Caesar (68 A.D.).

      There were still Judaizers in the church at that time (Rev. 2:9, 3:9) - impossible after 70A.D.

      The temple is apparently still standing in chapter 11.

      If the temple had already been destroyed, one would expect at least one mention of it somewhere.

      Revelation 2:2 shows that there were other apostles around - yet it is believed that all but John were dead by 70 A.D.

      Irenaeus' statement regarding Domitian's reign is difficult to interpret and based on a secondary source. In the same passage he also mentions "ancient copies" of Revelation in existence which makes little sense if they were only a few years old.

      Evidence for a massive persecution by Domitian (81-96 A.D.) is lacking.

      The only time there were only 7 churches in Asia was the early 60's. In the 90s there were alot more than 7.

      When you research both Christian and judean history, it all starts to make alot more sence.

      John was told he must prophesy again before kings (10:11) . . . he would have been over 90 if the late date is correct. Stories of his actions after being released from Patmos are difficult to reconcile with an aged man

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Good morning it's 7:AM just poured my coffee and reading this. Should think about an answer for a while but .?...   I’ll just run with it . 
        = - = - =
        The many "coming soon" and "at hand" passages (1:1, 2:16, 3:11, 22:6-20) only make sense if events matching the symbolism of Revelation were not too far in the future. The Jewish themes would make no sense after 70 A.D. - there was nothing left of the Jewish state.
        = - = - =
        Me ,  The following is Just My Opinion
        When Jesus said to write the things you have seen, the things which are and the things which shall be here after!  I take this to mean that these things which Jesus will be showing John in visions of things he has seen,  and   things which were currently happening Here& after  (now and later).                    It seems obvious to me when reading 5: 5&6 that immediately upon arriving in heaven after the crucifixion, Jesus begins opening the seals. (30 AD) He opens the first five seals immediately. When he opened the sixth seal there was a Great earthquake, This great earthquake happened in 62 AD, destroying Pompeii, for the next 17 years smaller earthquakes in that area became commonplace. Then in 79 AD Mt Vesuvius erupts. This is a key component concerning both the sixth seal and the 10 headed beast described in Daniel.  Within 30 days of each other Vesuvius erupts AND   Titus becomes the tenth horn.
        Concerning the fourth beast, and after the tenth horn another rises replacing three horns which come after the first ten. All 14 kings of the fourth beast has to come into power before these prophesy can be fulfilled. In Daniel when the little horn comes to his end (11:45) At that time Michael stands up for the children of Daniels people.
        And when the seventh seal is opened, nothing happens … except for there being silence in heaven for a short period of time. And Then after some time passes, the trumpets are handed out to the seven angels. All this does is to signify that the seven seals and the seven trumpets are not connected in any way.
        ===============
        SwordofManticorE wrote
        The Beast (which most if not all scholars agree represents Rome) was ruled by its 6th head ("head" = "king" see: 17:10) which was already in existence in John's day. Of the 7 heads (kings) only one was left - by 95 A.D. Rome was long past its 7th Caesar.
        = - = - =
        ME
        I believe this ten headed beast (Rev. 13) is an entirely different entity than the one described in Daniel. However their descriptions are so similar that they have to be related in some way. The same can be said for the one described in Rev. 17.
        When the RCC was designed, The Roman Empire was divided into seven districts, each district was given their own Pope. These seven districts was then divided into three regions another pope was assigned within each region having authority over church matters in that region. These three would answer to only the Emperor.    Each district being seen in this vision is being represented as a head having ten crowns (popes)
        As I said before  this is just the way I understand it.   
        Guess this is enough for now.  gotta run out for a little while.

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image73
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What ten headed beast are you talking about? There is only seven heads with ten horns in rev 13. I cannot see a connection with the popes and seven districts as you do. The end of the age of the old covenant in my opinion makes perfect sense with the prophecies written in this book.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Haven't been able to get on line lately except for ONE minute the other day.

            sorry about that ...  got to typing too fast and didn't proof read that.  I meant seven heads which I think in that instance represents seven districts or even posibly the kings (persons in charge of those districts)  But there are three other persons having ultimate authority over church business, a total of ten crowns

            In 355 the Pope in Rome was deflocked and sent into exile. Due to public outcry the Emperor chose to recall Liberous back to Rome to resume his position as Pope.
               
            I see this as one of the heads recovering from a deadly wound.  But maybe my imagination is a little too expanded or streetched?

  3. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 3 years ago

    First I would like to say,  counting forward from 538 BC to 0 is 538 years. Add another 30 If Christ was crucified in 30 AD.  This would be approx 568 years. This is said to be 62 weeks in prophesy if the commandment did go out in 538ish. ??  Just pretend behind door number three is a third possibly which you haven’t thought about???   
    Scripture says In the first year of Cyrus (Oct 539 to Oct 538) he was charged from God to build God a house in Jerusalem (Ezra first chapter) This is pretty simple.   
    Some time between 750 BC and 686-ish God told Isaiah that Cyrus will rebuild Jerusalem and lay the foundations for the temple. 

    And in Daniel, Gabriel did say that" the commandment" has gone forth just a couple of weeks prior.
    And then .....   Gabriel says that from the time the commandment goes forth it shall be 69 weeks unto Messiah the Prince and it shall be 62 weeks and they are going to kill the Messiah.
    Do you agree that scripture does say this?     This seems way too simple to me to try to interpret some other meaning out of this simply stated version. 
    Since this was told long before a lot of other stuff, this should be a foundation upon which any interpretations we make  about any statements made at a later date our should fit upon it
    That just sounds too simple the way it is written that I don't see any need to interpret "anything" about Daniel 9
    But I'm just a simpilton

    1. profile image71
      Robertr04posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I never called you a simpleton. I 'm just in disagreement with your time line. You leave broken sentences and thoughts dangling at times and I find it difficult to follow you sometimes smile We have each given our opinion and  again I respectfully agree to disagree. The cows have come in. " Darius the Meade, that is, Cyaxares, the uncle of Cyrus, took the kingdom; for Cyrus allowed him the title of all his conquests as long as he lived." At  the taking of Babylon Cyrus, as an act of courtesy, assigned the first place in the kingdom to his uncle Darius. in 538b.c. But 2 yrs later Darius died, leaving Cyrus sole monarch of the empire. Daniel is a book of prophecy as is Rev.  Many are confused by them and I don't won't to start all over again as what I see (partly) as why smile Have a good one

  4. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 3 years ago

    Robertr04 wrote 
    In chap8 the manner in which Gabe introduces himself shows that he has come to complete some unfinished mission. We agree on this.This can be nothing less than to carry out the instruction to make this man "understand the vision", as recorded in Dan.8. He says ,"I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding".  As the charge still still rested upon him to make Dan. understand, and as he had explained to Dan. in chap8
    =============

    ME    actualy Chapter 8 begins with  "In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar a vision apeared to me ..."
    Belshazzar was Nebeuchadnazzar's son or grand son, I don't remember wich right now. This identifies the year that Daniel has this vision as being approx 560 or 558ish BC.

    I've always wondered why some of the books in the bible are completely out of Chronoligical order such as Daniel Chapter 5 is supposed to have taken place just before Cyrus invaded and captured Babylon in 539 BC, When the events in Daniel 5 & 9 are said to have happened about the same time   539ish BC;             C. 6 & 8. happened a coulpe decades before C 5,7&9 (around 560is BC) which makes the book of Daniel much more confusing?

  5. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 3 years ago

    Robertr04  You haven't said if you were a preterist, historist or futurist or none of the above?

    1. profile image71
      Robertr04posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Jerami, been away for a few days. The wife and I needed a break. I'm nothing, no affiliations. Merely a servant of the Most High. I'm into health, spiritual and physical. I enjoy exchanging views with other believers about what and why they believe, what they believe. I enjoy talking to anyone about physical well being, especially the alternative methods of getting there.

 
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