The Atheist Bus ad campaign is working well. Thousands have recanted their beliefs and the rationalist movement is spreading.
Except for Tony Blair, who has decided that if he wants to make a lot of money on the American lecture tour, he better get god pretty quickly.
Haha! I'm not exactly an atheist, but I can absolutely appreciate this!
Of course, without science, the mis-religious would have no means with which to fly planes into buildings.
But the mis-religious do not need planes. Of course that is always one of the ironies I enjoy when some one typing on a computer argues that science is BS and the world was created last week by a magical, invisible super being.
I certainly havent' argued that science is BS, only that it makes the mis-religious more effective at their mis-deeds.
Too ME; the funniest thing is how you've just made a reference to a FICTIONAL story, from a FICTIONAL BOOK; like the stupid story was real or something... Thanks for the laugh! Christian to Atheist, NO WHERE in the bible does it say, I, GOD, WROTE THIS NON-FICTIONAL BOOK! No where! The HOLY BIBLE is a collection of text, that contains a bunch of parables and 2nd person narrated words. That is all it is...
Great Atheist advertisement! I actually appreciated it. But I don't appreciate people making fun of something because they aren't educated on the subject. What is the point of that, other than too waste space & time. Good try at mocking the bible though, thanks for playing. You know, I don't care what a person believes in or how they believe. But hey, when you start mocking a book that carries special meaning to a lot of others; how about reading it first, then study it, get educated about it's contents and then SUCCESSFULLY poke fun at it. As it is now, you're being a bully, and not a bright one at that. Hey, no one is poking fun at your beliefs. No one, besides myself, is giving you shit for not knowing what you're talking about here. (world was created last week by a magical, invisible blah blah blah) No one. I don't get Atheists like you. I don't get people like you at all. I actually had respect for you and valued your opinion. Vomit is more like it now. Your words are nothing more than ignorance filled vomit. Own it!
Lilith- first wife of Adam.
You do realize that in that creation story, creating the earth in 7days is an assumption, a fictitious timeline. Got any uneducated, wacked-out comments about that? Rock on there Zen Atheist!... Hey, got a library card? If not I suggest you get one & use it to brush up on the difference between FICTION and NON-Fiction... too funny.
I have never made fun of your work of FICTION. The people who believe it as a literal truth and say that there is an invisible magical super being who will judge me after I die?.............. perhaps.
"Ignorance filled vomit."? Nice - you must be a christian.
As for knowing what I am talking about. What makes you think I do not know what I am talking about. And what exactly did I say that is vomit? Please feel free to use the quote facility.
I guess you can't take a joke either. I will have to explain myself I suppose - In geological terms, 6,000 years ago is last week
Although I guess you are one of those back peddling now. Well, it is just a parable. It doesn't literally mean 7 days. It means whatever that scientist has now proven to be correct. Any christians who still believe that are not proper christians
Before you start attacking me because I do not share your beliefs - I suggest you take a little time to think about what I actually said here and ask yourself why it scared you so.
Hello.........there.........................! Are you kidding me?
I think your verbiage is vomit because it is. Atheist or not, that doesn't have anything to do with it. I think you need to quit hiding under that cloak your wearing and be smarter about the words you use and to what references your poking fun at before you get schooled about it. That has to be embarrassing.
I am NOT attacking you on your beliefs. Where did you get that? I believed I mentioned how I appreciated the buses advertisement, the billboards. I get a kick out of that crap. I don't have any problems with people and their beliefs. I, as a Philosopher and teacher of World Religion, actually enjoy people with different beliefs other than my own. That's what makes my job GREAT!
As for the vomit comment, YOU were referencing or "joking" about a topic you clearly know every little about. I can't tolerate ignorance in any form or nature. You know, so what if others believe the Creation Story to be a non-fictional story. So what???? You know, George Lucas believes in Star Wars. He believes it in his heart and mind. He believed in it so much that he built a compound to make it real. Tolken, invented a 'elfin' language because he believed his writings to be realistic and the world in which he created real.
Another thing, I think your verbiage, used in referencing too Christians, is crap... hence "vomit". Own it, be proud of that... But don't chastise me for calling a spade a spade. If you think of yourself in higher regards, talk like it. Till then... what else do you expect from a person like me??? Praise and a Star for your commentary?? Your barking up the wrong tree here, if you think that.
Also, I can't argue with you whether their is a God or not. My 14 yr old son is an Atheist. He believes in absolutely NOTHING! Where as my husband, the Agnostic and Engineer believes that since it can't be proved there in lies the doubt. My 13yr old is a Christian and I am a Fideist. I believe in Christ, but I also believe in many other religions to be a source to God. So since you like to stero-type and give people religious titles, what am I? I have raised an Atheist, married an Agnostic, raised a Christian, and I'm a Fideist.
So you tell me Atheist, how do you like me now? Are you back peddling and changing your view of this "Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Shinto, Taoist, etc... person? Be realistic here. You know you lumped me in the pot as a "stero-typical" Christian. You'd think that now a days, you'd know better than that. It just isn't fair nor is it right to stero-type or classify someone based off a belief, lifestyle, or culture. That is stupidity pure and simple. Being Atheist doesn't have anything to do with it. Your personal unique character traits is what causes that. BY THE WAY: Did I say your words were worthless because I believe in Christ? Man, please quit with the assumptions.
1 I believe you to be a foolish bully who happens to be an Atheist!!!
2 I don't know how to back peddle. Let us get that clear right now.
Back peddling...please, lol.
3 Maybe it is YOU who has a chip on their shoulders and a hard-on against Christians.
If that's the case- say so- OWN up to IT! Wear it with pride and stop being a bully.
Plain and simple; be respectful and maybe I won't think your words are vomit. Be smart about what you say and maybe I'd respect your place. Till then... VOMIT and TRASH!!!
Not able to be specific then? It is vomit because it is. Hmmmm. Great argument. Not.
Cloak - what cloak. I have always been as up front as I can be about everything I say. Not embarrassed at all actually. And the rest of your garbage made no sense at all. Perhaps you could try it again - in English?
What do you not understand about Atheism being a lack of belief? Even though you think it is crap apparently. I happen to believe christianity is garbage. Did I not make that clear? But you seem to have a problem with that. No?
Yes. Ignorance. Speaking of ignorance. What does it matter if some one wants to keep their child out of the school system to teach them that creation is actual fact? And tries to force others to believe it? And if you don't think that is the case, watch the first video in this post -
As for the other rubbish about Tolkein - not worth a response. I don't see anyone pushing this as a belief system.
Crap and vomit? What did I say exactly? I am proud of everything I say or write. I know, it goes against your beliefs therefore it is crap and vomit. But you don't have any problems with other people's beliefs.
I don't like or dislike you. You were the one that attacked me because I made fun of people who believe in a magical, invisible super being.
No you said my words were worthless for your own reasons. Quite honestly I don't care what you think. You are aggressive, nasty, foul mouthed and ignorant. You sure you are not a christian?
You might want to look up the word "fact" in a dictionary. It doesn't usually start with the words "I believe"
Oh - you managed to work out that I think most christians are hypocritical bullies? And their religious beliefs are a joke? Wow - did you work that out all on your own, or did I give you a few clues?
Respect needs to be earned. And attacking my refusal to believe in the same rubbish you do is unlikely to garner it.
You still managed to avoid my point. What scares you so much about people pointing out the fact that there is not a god and religion is political rubbish?
1-You want quotes on ignorant comments you've made all other this Hub network, fine I'll get'em for ya.
2-As for myself being ignorant. Well hon, not when it comes to religion.
3-I do feel bad for you that you couldn't understand my form of the English language. I could in the future see if my 10 yr.old grand daughter will come over so I can communicate better with you.
4-Aggressive... no not aggressive; less tolerant than others- but aggression, Nah that doesn't fit my bill. It is funny however that I think so little of you, as you might think of me.
5)And for a final time, YEAH I AM SURE I AM A CHRISTIAN, as well as a BUDDHIST, JEW, MUSLIM, and so on... So why do you keep asking? What the hell does that have anything to do with the fact I believe your ignorant of the subject of Religion? Do you not know what being ignorant means? I am not saying your a dumb person. I am saying you are not to bright about the subject of Religion. Big difference there...
My older son Eddie is laughing at us. Why? Because your an Atheist hell bent on trash talking Christians. And I'm a Fideist hell bent on teaching you some manners. My son Eddie asks,( Atheist to Atheist-) Why you hat'in? No hate man. Hey my mom is cool with us. You be hat'in to be hat'in dude & all that. They let us believe in nothin', why can't you let them believe that other sh*t? I don't believe in none of that sh*t moms believes, but I don't go around hat'in her for it either. Nah dawg, you be hat'in just to be hat'in.
My son is a very smart and strong Atheist. But he's has manners and respect for people different than you. So Mark, why do you hate Christians so much. Did a priest rape you as a child or what? I can't find a hub that pokes fun of Atheist's or calls any Atheist's out just to provoke them, you. So what's you're deal?
Teach me some manners?
Feel free. Nothing arrogant , condescending or aggressive there. Seriously - buy yourself a decent dictionary.
Ignorant on religion? OK.
As I have said many times, the bible is a great book - but don't try nd make me believe the rubbish that goes with it.
What scares you about atheism? Because you sound scared. Every time I am attacked - as you have attacked me, I wonder at the fear that brings that about.
Waiting on the quotes........ Try not to take them out of context.
Mark; it is pretty clear that you have a lot of hate in your heart and a big chip on your shoulder. Thanks for the advice about buying a new dictionary. I'll give it some thought. I don't believe the "rubbish" that can be found in the bible, I believe that was a point I was trying to make to you, that not all Christians believe that stuff. I don't believe it myself, so I highly recommend that you not take it so literal. I also think you should not think that all Christians are fundamentalist. I am not scared of Atheism. I have personally raised a fine young man to be Atheist and too be okay with being one. I am not scare of Atheist and or Atheism. What I am scared of is people like yourself who go around making fun of people because of their beliefs, using bullish tactics to intimidate someone who doesn't think the same as them, foolishly openly disrespecting a subject in which they're ignorant about, and stero-typing people in general. Example; so I believe in Christ- believing in Christ has nothing to do with being a Christian. What makes you a Christian is HOW do you believe in Christ. Massive Difference!!!! I am a Fideist. I do believe in Jesus Christ. And when I was little I believe in the tooth fairy; but what's that got to do with being a Christian and your smart mouth comments about it??? Yeah, people like you scare me. I wish you were a true Atheist! I wish you followed the principle and believed in NOTHING! That way you could give two sh*ts about billboards, bus advertisements, trash talking people's beliefs and stero-typing people based off what you think a "Christian" should look like.
Still waiting on the quotes. Any time.....
The dictionary will also explain A-theism. It doesn't mean I believe in nothing. It means...... Oh. Look it up for goodness' sake. Seriously - I recommend the Oxford English. All will become clear.
I have to admit, Mark, I am a bit confused on this person ... who claims to be a Christian and also seems to claim not to believe the bible. You and I may disagree on some key points on the nature of reality, but I've always been relatively clear on where you stood, same thing with most of the others here, dj, lita, sandra ... but ... This character ... I'm really not even sure about what this person thinks ... on one hand they seem to bash atheists, and on the other he seem to bash Christians who believe the bible, but I'm not even really sure about that.
One thing is clear, this person is very angry and it seems to be a generalized fury.
That is what it appears to me also. Dammit - we agree again. We have to stop doing that. Just here for the fight as far as I can work out.
First thing, I am not bashing Atheists. Mark has clearly suggested that, but I am not. Anger and fury, no. But I will say I am tired and less tolerant. As for this character, my name is Julie Grimes, & yeah I don't believe in a book, put together by the Councilmen of Trent in 325 AD. Yeah you're right, I don't believe the bible word for word. Noah's Ark, are you kidding me?
But if you're going to stero type me into one catagory, well I guess I can't do nothing to change that. I am a Fideist. I believe in faith. I believe in many different religions based off my own PERSONAL FAITH, but I am also a Dzogchen Buddhist who believes that Mohammad ascended to Heaven. Go figure!
Thanks for the narrow minded thinking. Maybe that narrow minded style of thinking (of yours) is why Israel bombs Palestine, why most Americans hate Muslims, why Hitler hated the Jews, etc... need I say more?
Well, as you are now attacking my christian friend (who I disagree with on much, but we seem to get along), I think it only fair you quote the VOMIT and TRASH that I said.
Alvin Plantinga defines "fideism" as "the exclusive or basic reliance upon faith alone, accompanied by a consequent disparagement of reason and utilized especially in the pursuit of philosophical or religious truth." The fideist therefore "urges reliance on faith rather than reason, in matters philosophical and religious," and therefore may go on to disparage the claims of reason.
Not a big fan of reason then. I see where you are coming from now. Nothing narrow minded here
Where do you see narrow mindedness in Fideism?
Don't bother answering.
You are exactly as I've said you were. When it comes to people like yourself, nothing good can be taken, and vomit and trash talk is all you get. Worthless!
How fascinating, you interpret sincere expressions of confusion to be narrow mindedness ... I'm sorry, I thought I read where you said,
It also fascinates me that you seem to think that I, a conservative bible believing Christian, who has routine civil discourse with Mark, an adamant atheist, am narrow minded. Now, granted, Mark has called my belief system, "silly and childish" but even Mark hasn't called me "narrow minded". (And he even calls me friend!) We have the civility to disagree agreeably! (I like you too Mark!)
You are a fascinating psychological. study Ms. Grimes, I look forward to reading more of your, non- angry, but "tired and less tolerant." writing. And while your style is neither informative, nor persuasive, it is certainly confrontational and therefore dramatic and entertaining.
It's not quite as much fun to watch as UFC, it is almost as violent in it's personal attacks. Fascinating and highly entertaining! Please, do continue!
Making a reference to a train of thought I thought Mark was making. Pinning Christian against Atheist, and Stero-typing. Narrow mindedness is in your case a fact. I wasn't trying to be rude. It's a fact. Own it.
You thought Mark was making?
I will argue with any religionist. Whatever creed. All the same to me................
Still waiting for the quotes.
Come ON you can do better, than that! That's what, maybe 2.5 on a scale of 1 - 10?
OK, it's true, I'm narrow minded, but I can afford to be, since I'm right .
I remember that picture ... it's from our first good argument! Ah ... memories!
Well, at least there has always been some point to our disagreements. This one? Not getting it.
We had an advertising campaign in England which was along the lines of "I am only here for the beer." I am waiting to see what Ms. Passive Aggressive is here for.......
Lol, love that pic, so clever. I can't believe they haven't done this before! But then again their funding hasn't always been so good!
I class myself as an internet atheist, if people online ask, I have no religion, there's no point getting into the inevitable religious argument with people I would probably normally get on with were it not for the fact we might pray to a different god and read a different book.
Photoshops, no advertising company in the world would use the word "dick" it would cause to many problems!
Yes, there are three christian groups now running counter-campaigns. This is the response from the BHA -
"We entirely support free expression and freedom of belief, and so fully support the right of these Christian groups to place their ads on buses. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Of course, there are differences between the Atheist Bus ads and the new Christian ones and I want to take this opportunity to reflect them.
Our ads were a response to ads run by jesussaid.org whose website promised an eternity of hellfire for non-Christians. Our response message, suggested by comedy writer Ariane Sherine was intended to be reassuring, telling people not to worry and enjoy life, as there was probably no god and so no cause to fear an eternity of hellfire.
Our ads were funded entirely by thousands of individual donors who gave small amounts in an outpouring of popular support for the positive message. The ads now launched in response to our response are funded by organisations or wealthy individuals.
Our ads were positive and peaceful. They didn’t say, for example, that religious people were ‘fools’, unlike one of the response ads being run, which says that "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."
Our ads were undogmatic and funny, with the addition of the ‘probably’ in line with the continuing openness of humanists to new evidence and in an echo of previous funny ads, like the Carlsberg ad which stated that it was ‘probably the best lager in the world’. The new ads are dogmatic and declaratory, leaving no room for reason and debate.
Of course, these groups are free to express themselves as they choose. Our ads encouraged people to think for themselves and I am convinced that they will continue to do so."
I signed up and have started promoting their website as soon as I read it.
There is probably no god.
Mark is very good at bulling and attacking Christians here in the forums.(Religious Racist). My questions for the atheists; Why are you people so troubled about the existence of God since you do not believe He exists? These little sentiments of yours and your cult are terrible!
I don't know what you do not understand here Andrew. Tell you what - You stop telling me there is a magical invisible superbeing who will judge me if I do not follow the rules you know he has laid down for me to save myself from the original sin I was born with and I will stop saying I don't believe you. GLORY BE TO THE ALMIGHTY !
The simple fact is that there are a growing number of people who are fed up of having a non-existent god shoved down their throat and have decided to be open about that fact. Some of them (myself included) are even prepared to spend their time and money spreading the word.
Religion has been the bane of our existence for too long and the sooner it is disposed of the better. And if there were any aggressive Muslims, Hindus, whatevers here I would be saying the same things to them.
Personally I find it interesting just how scared you are of me. Which leads me to believe that you, like many others, do not have a genuine belief. Because if you did, whatever I said would drop off of you like water off a duck's back and you would not need to say my sentiments are terrible.
And I suggest you look back through this thread to see who attacked who. Unless you consider a statement of atheism an attack on you?
RFox - good to see you back
I'm never afraid. If God is not faithful to me by His Words, I will not hesitate dropping His theory, the good news is "The Word of God Works in all generations." I live and walk in realities of the Resurrected Christ and the Power therein. No stories, that is why i refuse playing religion but really in the demonstration of His Power by His Word. Jesus Chris is Lord.
You've have not answered my question; Why are you people so troubled about the existence of God since you do not believe He exists?
I am not troubled because He doesn't. Sorry did you not understand what I said?
Was I not clear? Do you need it interpreting? I would not need to say "I don't believe you," were it not for the fact that you keep on saying, "There is a god. If you believe, you will be saved." I don't need saving. I don't need to walk a nonexistent walk in the footsteps of a nonexistent person. Understand now?
Uh huh! (Hey, it's as effective as anything else I've said )
Is anything effective? I seem to be having trouble explaining my position.
And I thought I was good with words.
There are two sides to communication, sender and reciever. You, as the sender, can only do as much as you can do. People hear what they hear (or preceive in the case of the written word) based on their past experiences. We factor in what we've been taught, what we've experienced, how we feel that day, the issues in our primary relationships etc.
Stongly held opinions (and the existance or non-existance of God and the nature of said God if he/she/it or they actually do exist definintely fall into that category) are seldom swayed based strictly on rational thinking or good communication.
Wrath duly noted, wow. I for one am in agreement for voices to be heard but not in agreement to laying ones full wrath upon ONE person for the actions of another. Behind anger lies hurt and nothing wrong with that either. Lets show a little more sensitivity and self control for everybody. thanks
You know I find it strange that the people who preach the bible are the ones that know the least about it. The Catholic religion is the largest in the world yet it wasn't started till around 740ad when the 'scrolls were found and interpreted by Constantine and the Romans which I find ironic since they persecuted those that followed any teaching but theirs. The Catholics teach that they were written by the apostles but were hidden for fear of repercussion from the Romans again ironic since most were killed for their beliefs anyway. Rumour out of the Vatican is that 1 was written by Jesus himself yet nothing put in the bible. Another is that the Vatican admitted 1 was written by Mary Magdalen again nothing. Here's a woman that according to the bible from the time Jesus saved her from stoning was without question his most beloved follower. She was with him at every event in his life. When he was killed, she was the 1st he appeared to after he arose and according to some the last to see him when he ascended to heaven. The bible teaches that Jesus was the son of God yet they also teach God and Jesus were 1 and the same. If that were true why would Jesus look up and say "father why has thou forsaken me" If this God excisted he was quite cruel, take the story of Job. The Devil comes to God says I can make him lose faith in you to which God who trusted in Job's faith said sure try but don't take his life. So the Devil puts him through unimaginable suffering including taking his family yet when he couldn't succeed God rewarded Job 10 fold. Was Job suppose to forget his wife and kids. Do you think if he had known the bet God made he would still have faith in this God? I'm a father with sin yet I would NEVER let anyone hurt my kids for any reason.There are many stories like this in the bible. I was born and raised a Catholic for 50 years yet the past few years I've come to realize that this bible is fiction simply by reading it and listening to the teachings of the religion. I'm not trying to turn people off to their beliefs as everyone needs something to believe in but what I don't understand is why we can't believe in each other, after all religion is responsible for 10s of millions of lives lost since it all began. If God created the earth in 6 days man being created on the 6th with Adam and Eve then when did the dinosours and the cave man come in? We know for certain they did excist. The bible teaches God destroyed the earth [ by that I mean all life] several times the flood being the last as God said it would be, how do you explain the ice ages? I could go on but you know what I'm getting at. This book is full of lies IE; Adam and Eve being the first humans, Jesus being the son of God and perfect, the way the earth was created, saying the earth will never be destoyed again it goes on and on. I truly wish that people could beleive in each other and stop hating but I guess I'm a dreamer
I find it ironic that you think Constantine did anything in 740AD, considering he died in 337AD.
Hey Mark when you quoted the bible verse about Caeser; did you know what Christ was referring too? Do you know where he said it? Do you know why he said it? Do you know why he was addressing the issue? If you clearly did, then you'd know that it made no sense to post that thread on the finance post in which you challenged an idea. It made no sense at all.
Mark, you yourself have to admit that you like to pick on Christians as a whole. You like to call people Silly and Childish. Your friend even said so. Mark, I can't find a single thread, where in the moment of opportunity, you make no wise cracks about Hindu's. I have seen a post yet where you've specifically have taken a passage out of the Koran, to make it pon in your jokes.
If I've missed any, let me know... Why just the Christians Mark? It seems to me you take pleasure out of hurting Christian believers. It seems to me you know enough about the bible, that it sometimes gets you in trouble. And now you've made it perfectly clear that you aren't even a true Atheist. Just someone who goes around bashing Christians and using Atheism to hide from.... Atheists are generally equal opportunity orientated. You just look like a racist against any type or form of Christian and Christianity.
I never said any such thing about Caesar. And yes I am familiar with the bible. (I can even spell Caesar). Try that dictionary I mentioned.
Just christians? Hurting? I think all religions claiming a personal god and a set of instructions are as bad as each other. There are just more christians here.
But as Paraglider pointed out - you, who apparently strives to be christ-like have done nothing but attack me based on the fact that you thought I said something I did not.
Which is the basis of much of my disdain, lack of respect and general intolerance for religionists. They are invariably a "do as I say, not as I do," sort of religion.
Show me and I will respect. Tell me, act the opposite - not usually going to get any respect from me...........
This thread is turning into a personal attack.
Yeah, you're right, it a personal attack. I completely agree. Mark has personally attacked the Christians and Christianity time and time again. So yeah, I am attacking him on his racism against Christians and his lack of knowledge on the Christian Bible.
You take a chill pill... and suck up some more alcohol why you're at it. I heard a story once about a woman named Janis Joplin who did that very thing. Think about what you say...
Not quite sure "Hey Mark when you quoted the bible verse about Caeser; did you know what Christ was referring too?" Think you are referring to me. Seems you made this mistake be4. 'Render onto Caesar...' was mine.
Wow Mark, I see you've been making friends again.....
Last time I went away for a while Misha was almost reported to Homeland Security and now you seem to have a garnered an avid fan
I always find it curious the assumptions people like to make about one another.
I find it quite interesting that jgrimes331 thinks you are ignorant of the Bible...of course she wasn't around 6 months ago for the in depth discussions and debates that occurred when the Religion Forum first came into existence.
Does Mark enjoy poking fun of Christians, attacking their belief system and stirring up lively debate? Yes
Do the Christians on these forums enjoy poking fun of Atheists and sometimes downright attacking Mark personally for his beliefs or lack-there-of? Yes
Do two wrongs make a right? No
Does it make entertaining reading for anyone who stumbles across these threads? Yes
And while some people may wish to demonize Mark or believe him to be the Devil incarnate, he is simply a mere mortal such as the rest of us.
(So do you think they'll believe the last line, Dark Lord? It sounded convincing when I wrote it.)
Oops....did I say mere? I meant 'mere'raculous.
And I think it's great that in Britain anyone can express their philosophy peacefully on the side of buses and spark some interesting discussions. I don't feel we should ever stop questioning the world around us.
Test every hypothesis for oneself!
Quite right. They were banned in Italy
Lol....Banned in Italy....doesn't surprise me. Did the Pope have a hand in that?
I think we should celebrate all philosophies and open dialogue. What are they afraid of?
If the people of Italy are good Catholics why should a few bus slogans change anything?
Makes you wonder...hmmmmmm
Well, one of the pope's minions.
I am not wondering. I know their beliefs are pretty tenuous. The more tenuous they are, the more aggressively they defend them and try to spread them.
It is hard to reconcile a belief that the world is 6,000 years old (as some one is doing on another thread) with the overwhelming evidence that it is not. It must drive you crazy.
I saw that other thread. Didn't see the point in commenting.
Yes, it has always appeared to me that the most aggressive religious doctrines (particularly ones related to converting others) seem to be perpetuated by people who don't have true faith in their own supposed salvation or belief system.
After all, if you truly believe you have the Golden Ticket to the afterlife, then wouldn't you have a happy carefree attitude towards everything.
I wish I believed my life belonged to God and nothing I do is under my control. Then I would have someone else to blame!
May I commend my most recent hub on Predestination. Everything is under control
Well, this has been a fascinating thread! I took the trouble to check out a few of Julie's recent hubs. The best of them, called Picture Peace, is quite good. It's about (to paraphrase) the possibility and desirability of Christians becoming more Christ-like by learning about certain Buddhist teachings and traditions. But I'm still a bit confused at the difficulty of reconciling the peacefulness of the hub with the apparent anger in most of Julie's commentary here, even to her slapping down of Uninvited Writer's very reasonable call for restraint.
Julie - excuse me talking about you in 3rd person. I was addressing all readers. If you can demonstrate calmly that your manner here is truly compatible with your goal of becoming Christ-like, I would be genuinely interested.
After my spontaneously responses, that led people to believe I am an angry person, I personally went back inside myself to wonder how I could have reflected such wrong. My favorite teacher, Lama Surya Das writes, "Keep the bigger perspective in mind and go with the greater current in the river of reality, without becoming caught up in life's little whirlpools." -I am imperfect as imperfect gets, I should of seen the whirlpool approaching. However; I did not.
I do think Mark is a very narrow minded individual. I think he is a racist against Christian people. But, I guess I am guilty too, of "stero-typing." Most of the Atheist I know, live with and studied under, are equal opportunity critics. Mark seems to want to quench his thirst of Christians behind the mask he wears proclaiming himself to be an Atheist.
Not big on apologies then?
Odd that how anyone who doesn't believe is automatically labeled narrow minded. Not that you do stereotypes or anything.
I hear that a lot. "If you just opened your mind to the truth you would see I am right."
If it is any consolation, I despise Muslimist and Feistist hypocrites just as much as the christianists.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ … 58,00.html
The Christians are fighting back (although with a lot less adverts!)
"He has his supporters. The Christian Party, a right-wing political party whose policies mostly focus on moral issues, is joining the advert battle by displaying posters on at least 50 buses, though they are not working directly with Larlham's group. "There definitely is a God," their message reads. "So join the Christian Party and enjoy your life.""
I don't claim to be an expert of the law, but under "false-advertising" laws, surely saying God "definitely" exists is false advertising as they can not prove beyond a measure of doubt that there is a God.
I'm thinking a phone call to the Advertising Standards people should be in order!!
Already called, but the next step involves a tortuous amount of paperwork. I am game though......
Paperwork and bureaucracy, hand in hand, why am I not surprised!
I would think, and this is just speculation as I am not as familiar with the British traditions and legal system that "Her Majesty by the Grace of God ..." etc.or her courts would be willing to rule against the existance of God, since "Divine Right" is the basis upon which the monarchy exists. As I said, I'm just guessing and speculating.
We tossed the Monarchy out centuries ago and replaced it with what Harry Turtledove called "Snout Counting".
Who knows. One of the goals of the rationalist society is to finally have a secular state. I am game and have complained. Anyone else that wants to can do so here -
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_compla … ints_form/
If they had said "There probably is a god," or "I believe there IS a god," they would have got away with it, but..
We aren't big on the Divine Right of Kings in the UK (-:
Mark as you stated you hate. I don't. And you think I'm being narrow minded? Okay, if you say so.
Apologize to you?? For what?? You have an opinion of me, and I have an opinion of you. Just the same as I have the opinion that you're not a true Atheist, but a hater, a racist. I'm sure you think I'm a hypocrite. Fine, that is something I can live with. But racist, a hater- those characteristics I would be a shamed of. But again, that is me. I will work harder on not being so "narrow minded" as you say I am, hypocritical as you believe me too be and more tolerant of people that don't know the inside out of the Christian Bible. Admitting I was out of line, that doesn't bother me. I have nothing be sorry for. Admitting a wrong and then learning from it, is so much better than an apology anyway. But if you need one for your ego, I am woman enough to say, "I'm sorry". Feel better now?
For your future knowledge, it's Islamics not Muslmist. I take it you are not big on understanding the Koran, the Muslim people or the Islamic religion. But yet you hate them too? Wow! I tell ya, your right- how can anyone debate someone like yourself? You can't!! So keep on hiding behind your "Atheism", pretending to be objective, and for now on I'll try to stay out of your way...
I pity you Mark, I really do. I couldn't imagine living with so much hate in my heart. Can you even comprehend a word like compassion? No, I don't think so. That makes me sad for you. I do honestly wish you wellness, peace and enlightenment. Now, I'm ready for your hate filled comments, your bulling, your dim witted sense of humor. So take this opportunity to unleash your wrath, I will not response and I'll accept your heart filled hatred and literally admitted despising self.
Yeah. I despise hypocrites of all religionist persuasions. You don't hate, but you have done nothing but attack me because you mistakenly thought I quoted the bible in an ignorant fashion. When it turned out you had made a mistake, you merely redirected your attack.
That fits the description pretty well. I am not interested in your hypocritical wishes of wellness, peace and enlightenment accompanied by telling me I make hate-filled comments, have a dim-witted sense of humor and you pity me. I love you too
He said, "If it is any consolation, I despise Muslimist and Feistist hypocrites just as much as the christianists."
I sense a "missed irony" alert here.
Thanks LondonGirl, but I got it. I got the "missed irony", I was only trying to state the ob... oh, what the heck. I got it LondonGirl, okay? Anything else??? Please, it is my privilege to read and learn from you. By all means... please continue.
I forgot my sarcasm smiley Irony is lost on most religionists.....
I am woman enough to say I'm sorry... hm, even though I didn't feel I needed to apologize I did it anyways. I found this on page 4. Now what Mark, what else would you like to personally destroy of mine? What else would you like to slam me about? How can I be of service to you, Mark? I asked you to scat and leave me alone. But you couldn't. No, you have to make everything public. Fine.
I hope must of you will take the time out for yourself to read my hubpages. I am very sorry for acting so poorly and personally attacking Mark. Understand that I am sick of him. Who wouldn't be when you've apologized and then he comments on your hub page that you didn't. I don't respect him or like him. I think he is wasted space. Do I wish him dead, HELL NO! Do I wish him harm, no. Do I wish to further engage him, NO. Do I wish everybody would stop reading his hub writings, NO. I encourage you to do so. Do I have a personal vendetta against Mark, NO. If you notice I wasn't the one making fun of what ones writes on about some else's hubpages in a forum. In a FORUM THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY HUBS!!! Mark I am sorry. I believe I have stated that several times now. I would've never of taken the time to personally humiliate someone, by posting a personal and private email. So the email is full of dislike and anger towards you. It wasn't posted on a FORUM. It was privately written to you.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I am crying.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I am insulted once again.
If it makes you feel better Mark, you've won.
If it makes you feel better Mark, you are a better person than I.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I don't know if I will continue on HubPages.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I am a widow. My husband committed suicide by hanging himself. I can only imagine the fun you will have with that one. But I want you to know I found him and it has taken me four and half years to crawl out from underneath that hole I been hiding under.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I don't think I'm ready for this world.
If it makes you feel better Mark, my sons will be sad to see me slide so far back. But how can I not, I can deal with this shit. I can't. I can't handle the personal attacks from you anymore. I can't. And even though this is only a keyboard and a computer, I have allowed you into my head. That's hurtful and I want it to stop. I'm sorry Mark. I'm sorry.
And again I'm confused. Whence the need to define people, to label people? The explanation is simple enough though. If you 'know' what an Xxxist is, it's just plain simple to unleash standard Xxxist-response-'A' against anyone you can categorise as Xxxist. How about thinking? It's not so hard to do (as John Lennon said)
Again... Is it not right to be able to label oneself? Am I wrong in doing so? Why can't I be allowed to do so? What about that confuses you? I live in America, the land of the free. Got it? I consider myself to a person of many different faiths. Understand? Please understand where I come from, it is okay to express oneself by placing a label to a name. Today I feel Islamic. I have been studying and reading the Koran before I go to bed. Where I come from, that is okay. I have made no attempt to confuse you, or anyone else for that matter. I am sorry if I did.
Julie Grimes the Islamic for today... Tomorrow, I might decide to give up on humanity and label my self a racist hater. The great thing about the country in which I live in, I can do that.
Maybe there in lies your confusion. Maybe there in lies my miss communication with you in expressing myself. Be that as it may, I apologize for confusing you. I will not apologize for my American right to label myself; in which I did. Thanks.
I was actually talking about labelling other people, not yourself. No-one likes to be labelled by someone else because then what usually happens is thought goes out the window as we start addressing the label instead of the person. But as you say, we are all free to call ourselves whatever we like. And we don't have to be American to do that
Woe you got some screws loose. So now you want to make the Islamic faiths look bad too? That is classic. Do you do it to sabatage every effort Islam has made over the last few decades just because you live in America "the land of the free"?
I guess the great thing about Islam is that they would accept you anyways, just like the Christains faiths but really when you say things like this on accounts of whichever new faith you have attained you really have come no where even close to understanding any religion.
People who say things like this really make anyone who would have been or could have been a great commodaty to any faith, detest religion.
Hey Sandy! She published a hub yesterday saying she let her emotions get the best of her on the forums ... and it sounds like she's backing off from some of these postions:
Probably it's best summed up in her statement: "I was guilty of being narrow-minded too. Why couldn't I see that until it was to late"
Glad to see you back ... BIG HUG
Well that's good. If she comes back...sorry!
Yes - I read that hub where she said that she apologized. You see an apology anywhere?
Edit - In fact, you know what? I object to being treated like an idiot by some one with a bunch of BS beliefs who lies to protect that. This is how it went:
According to this hub -
I kept out of that thread and never said a word.
This is also BS. What was actually said was:
So. I was attacked for something I did not say. And as for the Muslimist joke. Too funny. Religionists........
The hub then goes on to say:
This is the thread. Please read through it and see an apology. Good luck, because it is not there.
And you wonder why I despise religionists? Of course, you do not hate. But you will lie and twist to suit. Awesome ! Get me some of that religion please.........
And then she sends me this PM through hubpages:
"I left you a comment on my hub. If you would do so, please read it. That way the next time I allow you post a comment on one of my hubs, you'll know what the f your talking about. I am real tired of fighting with you. Especially since I DID APOLOGIZE to you. So you can see how I am tired of your shit anything to do with you period. I have left you alone. Be so kind to leave me alone. I am very sick of you, I don't like you, I don't respect you, and that is that. I am sure you feel the same about me. From your last post directed at me, I got the sense you think I'm wasted space. I'm okay with that. That suits me just fine. I feel the exact same about you! If you don't feel that way about me; well know this now, I don't care because I STILL DO... So for your information I will NEVER APOLOGIZE for my feelings. But I did apologize to you in Good News. I wrote I'm sorry!!! I think my exact words were, for the sake of your ego, I'm sorry.
Seriously. WTF is it with you religionists?
Hey .. you laughin' at my hug to Sandy 'cuz I never hug you? Here ... you get a Howie Mandel style [Fist Bump]
Man, we agreed on almost everything for two whole days... If I give you a real hug ... people are gonna really start talking ... OK ... You're right after all, Jesus would give you a real hug ... and a kiss on the cheek. (I mean your FACE ... don't even go there) ...
OK, Big Man Hug and Kiss on the Cheek (face)
Right back at ya. But I live in France - I have to kiss men all the time.
We seem to have lost the message here. While Ms. "I love everyone and I am sorry if you are so stupid that you took that as a personal attack I am just human," attacks everyone and labels them according to her right as she lives in the greatest country in the world
The atheist bus campaign is working well and many are turning away from religion as they realize it is a waste of time and fosters hatred and bigotry.
Praise be ! Good news indeed !
And on that point " ... it is a waste of time and fosters hatred and bigotry." I civily and respectfully disagree.
As is your right. History will bear me out though.........
Ah, life is back to normal you and I are no longer in agreement ... for a while, I was beginning to fear for the safety of the space-time continum!
It was scary for a while there. But read this and remember -
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa … ger_i.html
Mark, have you ever Googled "Borderline Personality Disorder"?
And in case any one thinks I don't make fun of Muslims -
Or Islamics as they are now known.......
Yeah, I didn't see the point of commenting either. The only reason I can think of to start that thread would be to have an argument. Not sure how recognizing proven scientific facts could make you less of a christian. There are far better ways of doing that
Plus I believe I may have already had that particular discussion
This is an apology?
And what hubs am I supposed to have trashed exactly? I have never said a word about your hub other than to say that you are lying in your representation of our interaction. Anyone is free to read it and make their own decision.
I am genuinely sorry you are in so much pain and I wish I could do something about it - but I can't. I feel for you, but I did not cause this pain. If it makes you feel better - attack me more. I can take it.
You have no need to apologize to me.
Mark I understand that you are not the cause of my pain. Please, please, please, I never meant to apply that. Please, I am sorry.
Thanks everyone, it's been real interesting the past few weeks. But I can't take it. I have forgotten how to be human. I am sorry I've wasted everyone's time. Thank you and be well!
Hey fellow hubbers. Im not getting in the midle of this deep discussion but I thought I'd post Elvis Presley's reply to Atheists:
In high school Elvis argued with a fellow student who claimed to be an atheist. He said:
"But there's no such thing as atheist. The very fact that you argue about it proves that you're afraid there might be a God".
"If you were sure He didn't exist, you wouldn't bother to deny Him".
Or, in case you all want to see my mothers scrapbook of Elvis, I can use the exposure :-)
snipped hub link
Yeah well, dropping a link into what has turned into a personal discussion is out of order, and if you were so sure there was a god you wouldn't argue that fact because you already know. Unless you are terrified you made a mistake......... And you are wrong. And yes - I reported you for doing so.
hey thanks mk, i didnt know about those links here. i see em in other forums and havent been at hubpages very long. and i didnt know forums were personal.
That is because you did not read the thread. This had become a personal discussion. But you wanted us to know that Elvis Presley was too ignorant to understand why atheists become fed up with having a non-existent god shoved at them all day everyday.
And just happened to have written a hub on Elvis .....
Leaving links is perfectly acceptable if they are relevant to the conversation and how ignorant and condescending Elvis Presley was is hardly relevant.
I work for the French (AREVA) But I sure as hell don't kiss them!!!!
Well Elvis did spend his final days eating deep fried banana and peanut butter quarterpounder bacon double cheeseburgers (or something very similar) so maybe there was a god of some sort keeping him alive, any normal human being could never eat the ammount he did!
Hi Mark, BDazzle and everyone else. I know this is not the place for the question I about to ask, but this seems to be the forum in which to find help. Mark and BDazzle I don't know how to use "emotions"-smilies. BDazzle gave me some great advice about using them. But I don't know how. Is this something I might have to download? If it is, well I'm out then. My teenage sons decided to surf the internet for porn. Well my computer won't download anything anymore. But if I can some how create a smiley with my computer keys, I would greatly appreciate any knowledge you can throw my way.
By the way, good morning. I am much better today. Thanks Mark for you kindness...
"I don't know how to use "emotions"-"
I never use 'em so I don't know. There is a smilies box right below the message reply box. I can't use it cause I get a popup blocker but you might.
Duh, thanks! I never even noticed that...
Okay, so what does BBcode mean? I can't believe I didn't even see that!
Here is a link to the hubpages explanation:
No porn I'm afraid.......
Hey thanks guys! Hey did you all here that Stormy Daniels might be running for a Senate seat out of Louisiana? I caught her interview on CNN.
Hey Mark I'm sure you want to let the last couple of days to blow over, like I do. But I want you to know that growing pains can often be painful for me. But you have really enrich my views, and maybe take a good hard look at myself. I can't thank you enough for that. We okay? I would sure like to be... Julie
Not a problem.
I try real hard not to take anything personally. Don't always manage it, but I am certainly not offended. I am flattered you chose me to work a few things out. My first wife died some years ago and I know it is hard to deal with. I was very, very angry for some time. Mostly at myself, but it came out in some strange ways that I had almost no control over.
Beats me same prob with popup block. Might try this.
In order to work for Fox, you have to be able to talk through a massive, fake smile. Weird.
In order to work for Fox, you have to be a rapid neo-con and give up all professional journalistic pretensions, period. lol
I find that Fox give a balanced and accurate representation of society. Rupert Murdoch is a true visionary, and I will not hear a bad word said about him and his Trojan and professional team of journalists.
Deeply sorry that I have offended your socialistic "be nice to everybody" tendencies, Sufi. lol
No, I have seen the true light and decided to become a conservative - Sean Hannity showed me the true path.
You liberals and socialists will not have the fruits of my loins...or was it labour.
Well-- Those neo-cons do have such an excellent message and presentation, after all. I can see how you have been persuaded. And anything to do with loins is always good, you know.... lol
Agreed - Loins, small governments meeting in bathtubs, stimulating plans - that sounds like a great party. I'm in - where do I sign?
You must sign in goat's blood (grab one there in your mountainous village and kill it quick) on a certain archaic list. Oh. You must also give up your soul--just one caveat.
Then you can join the party!! (They don't call them the Grand Old Perverts here in the states for nothing.)
No I doubt it's a photoshop touch up. Advertising companies have used much worse. I found both images on here,
http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/talls … reach.html
I found the link at the top and the images above and below by doing a search for 'could bus ad campaign backfire'.
"Aww ... look at his wittle horns." "You're a precious devil, yes you are!"
I do certainly find it funny just how scary this is to the believers Complaining to the ASA
And asking the ASA to insist that the claim is substantiated.
So funny. If you can't prove god doesn't exist, that means he does
Let us see how well the complaints against the "There definitely is a god" campaign go. Education is the death of religion. Thank goodness.
Actually Mark the only thing that I find scary about the atheist movement is that it may very well be headed by communist revolutionaries. And you may be a pawn duped into believing that it is not. I don't find the bus campaign threatening other than that. In fact it makes some people think about God.
"well be headed by communist revolutionaries."
Are there still 'communist revolutionaries'? Actually it is a plot by the catholic church / and then to blame communist revolutionarys as a means to discredit atheism.
The atheist bus campaign is a plot by the catholic church? What ever you think.
This web site claims to be the Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Party,USA. It's not surprising to me that the top article on their web site today is "Celebrate Darwin Day 2009". The article sounds like it could have been written by Mark, but I know he's not a communist. So communist revolutionaries still do exist. It wouldn't surprise me if they were behind the atheist movement knowing how anti-God communist Russia was.
Just to put it straight, Russia has given freedom of worship to most religions, but not fully to Catholics. The Pope is still banned from visiting Russia. Priests have to apply for visas, some being denied and some stripped of their visas. Construction of a new cathedral in Pskov was blocked. A 2004 Russian Ecumenical conference excluded Catholicism.
I can assure you my political views have nothing to do with my disdain for religion and my atheism. And I am no communist.
Can't say I blame anyone for despising the Catholic church though. They certainly earned it. And still are. Hitler youth anyone?
You really are very good at twisting words to suit your political beliefs. Oh, I'm sorry - God.
Fear will do that to you.
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