jump to last post 1-5 of 5 discussions (67 posts)

Which of the three represents God the best when it comes to salvation?

  1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
    SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago

    Which of the three represents God the best when it comes to salvation?


    Arminianism - God can't save all?

    Calvinism - God won't save all?

    Universalism - God will save all?

    1. profile image0
      Rayne123posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      God will save all , however only if we ask and live his will. He sees/hears/knows all. We have free will if we dont ask we wont hear/listen.

      One must ask from the heart, if we ask but go out and commit robbery God allows us to suffer the consequences/fall in our own traps

      1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
        SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You just contradicted yourself.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image59
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Evangelism - Followers can threaten us all.

    3. Zelkiiro profile image84
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Realism - God isn't.

    4. renegadetory profile image92
      renegadetoryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I can't speak for God as to who He will save and who He will not.

      Yes, He desires that all would be saved, but I have yet to come across scripture that says everyone will be saved.

      1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
        SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Can you pick one of the three? Btw, I can show you many verses that 3 is the answer.

        1. renegadetory profile image92
          renegadetoryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, I meant to write that my answer makes me #2, though I'm not familiar with Calvinism.  Feel free to post whichever verses you choose and I will respond as best I can.

          1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
            SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Why do you think God wont?

            1. renegadetory profile image92
              renegadetoryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Because repentance is necessary for salvation.

              1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
                SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                What form of salvation are you referring to when it comes to repentance?

                1. renegadetory profile image92
                  renegadetoryposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Eternal salvation.

                  1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
                    SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    And where is that in scripture if you dont mind me asking?

    5. kess profile image60
      kessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No 'ism' or combination thereof, can show the fullness of God.
      But yet God is an integral part of every one.

      This is because God is complete.

      The  Gospel of the Christ and the Gospel of the anti-Christ  have much in common
      except one is incomplete.

      This shows the nature of deception, in that the more truth there is to it, the greater the potential to deceive.

  2. Ericdierker profile image81
    Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago

    What a controversial question. It should arouse many. I certainly could not answer it. For they all reflect mans idea of what God is. They all have a built in assumption that God must act a certain way so that we can understand him and live accordingly.
    Certainly we must try to act in accordance with what we believe. I think and believe that God wants me to know him and love him as he loves me. So as for me and my household it just does not matter. Can't and won't certainly do not apply to our God. Both those words in my household are basically dirty words we do not use even for ourselves. But I have been too surprised too often to determine aforehand what God "will" do. We do not even pray for God to do something particular because whatever we can desire He can do so much more.

    So even though I cannot answer your question I must say my answer would be (d) none of the above.

    1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Will God get what He wants?

      1. A Troubled Man profile image59
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        He failed with that one when He failed with Adam and Eve.

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yawnn

      2. Ericdierker profile image81
        Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Can God who is Alpha and Omega -- Want? Certainly He would not need. But would He have desires not already fulfilled? I do not see that as consistent with omnipotence. We speak of our choices, but why would God have choices? It just would be. He lets us know His desire, but that is for us as a guide. Not a restriction on Him.

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Ok Eric, let me put it this way, Will His will be done?

          Btw, I like your comments.

          1. Ericdierker profile image81
            Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            My wife will not let our 3 year old make any choices. I make him make all his choices, sometimes he chooses wrong. My will for him is that he learn and develop and grow, not that he does what I want. If I protect him completely from consequence, what then? But if he fails, that does not lesson my love. I have yet to punish him. He does that himself.

            1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
              SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I understand that, but will God's will be done?

              1. Ericdierker profile image81
                Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Then you did not understand that. God's will is clearly to give us our time here to learn and grow and fail and die. And this is what happens every day. It is not a matter of "will" it be done. It cannot be. God's will IS done. Your need for a human timeline is amusing, but only your need not His.

                1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
                  SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh yes I did, but you still haven't answered if His will, will be done?

                  1. Ericdierker profile image81
                    Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes I did. It is done. Your use of tenses is so wrong with God. (IMHO) What will God do? Is non-sequitor. What part of Alpha and Omega is hard for you? You have been playing with the folks that answer 1 and/or 2 for too long. Next your going to tell us God must forgive everyone. Just like they say the opposite.

        2. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Interesting - I had never thought of God's "wants" in quite that way.  For God to "want" anything, and not have it as soon as the want manifested itself, He would have to be masochistic, denying Himself that want when it could so easily be granted.

          The inescapable conclusion is that He wants people to burn in Hell, He wants people to starve and children to be abused.  He wants everything that happens (or else is that masochist mentioned).  A conundrum.

  3. Jerami profile image76
    Jeramiposted 3 years ago

    Universalism is a true fact.  But everyone doesn’t need to know it! After death  EVERYONE returns to where we came from whether we accept this or not.
    I believe that if everyone did know this, IT WOULD BE A BAD THING.  This is hidden between the lines in the story of the flood. In the beginning God said LET  ”US”  make man in our image. And WE did. And we brought with us all the knowledge we had before entered this physical realm.  Because of this … the world was unfit to live in.  The story of the flood depicts a do-over so to speak.  From that point on, we left all prior knowledge behind at birth.
       And then we have the story of the tower of Babble.  It doesn’t matter whether the tower actually existed or not. I’m not talking about just languages being scrambled up but the ability of understanding each other in many ways.     When ALL of mankind is able to understand each other completely, anything is possible.    (THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING)
    When we continue to fuss and fight about the little things we are taking our eyes off what is really going on. We don’t really see the forest for the trees.
    SOooo   If universalism is true,  NO MATTER WHAT?   The concept does not have a need for universal understanding. Quite the opposite.
    It is not the teachings which are important but the behavioral changes which result.
    It doesn’t matter which denomination we belong to that is important, but each and everyones behavior is important to society as a whole. When we watch the ant too intently ....  we don't see how large the mound is getting.

    1. Zelkiiro profile image84
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I very, very highly doubt that prehistoric people with minimal knowledge of science could have ever built a tower that reaches into space without:

      A. Everyone dying hideous deaths
      B. The tower collapsing under its own weight
      C. Requiring a foundation larger than the Earth itself
      D. Tools more complicated than a hammer and chisel

      1. Jerami profile image76
        Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Your statement is correct;  but just maybe ???  you are looking at the ant (details of the story) and not seeing (the mound) the conclusions the story is suposed to bring us to?

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I now know what you mean Jerami. It makes since now.

          1. Jerami profile image76
            Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Not saying that I am on the right path; but it seems so to me, that universal salvation is the right answer, however accepting this to be true is just the first step of a new journey or quest for answers.
            And in the final conclusion ....   it seems to me that when our journey is completed we will have come full circle, understanding and believing as a child would.    but that is just my thoughts on the matter.   

            EDIT  ..Gotta go to the store and then to see the Dr. ....  see Ya later.

            1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
              SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Another hint that supports UR are the three festivals of ancient Israel. Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacle.

              1Cor 15:23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him (All mankind).

  4. theologix profile image60
    theologixposted 3 years ago

    It is not whether or not God stops loving part of His Creation.  The issue is whether or not God is a truly Just God.  If He is, then, ouside of salvation through the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus, Son of God, on the Cross which was a fulfillment of The Fathers need for Justice to be served for the crime of sin.  You are still condemned.  And Gods need for Justice, because He is a Just God demands recompense.  Emotionality has nothing to do with it.  But, If God is NOT a Just God, then what was the whole point of Christ? 

    For me, the crux of the issue is not whether or not God can or cannot, will or will not save everyone.  The issue for me is over whether salvation is universal, meaning that Christ died for all and that all sin no longer exists and that we are all going to heaven in the end, OR that Christ died so that all that believe in Him may be saved from an eternity of damnation.  For me, the conditional clause applies.  It is scriptural. Jn. 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not die but have life everlasting."

    1. Ericdierker profile image81
      Ericdierkerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Very well spoken. I believe that if I did not have Him I would already be dead of spirit. And to me, that death would be hell. I am just a pompous ass enough to feel sorry for others.

    2. SwordofManticorE profile image75
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Rom 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

      Rom 14:11It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"

  5. theologix profile image60
    theologixposted 3 years ago

    Concerning the Prodigal Son, no.  He did not demand that his son clean himself before embracing him.  But, he did demand that he be taken afterward and cleaned and dressed in the finer cloths.  That says to me, that while Christ accepts you and even embraces you at where you are when you come to him, that you cannot remain there.  That lackadaisical attitude toward grace and forgiveness is why the Church is in the state that it is in.  He takes us in our filth and cleans us.  Takes us out of our rags and dresses us in fine cloths (takes us out of sin and clothes us in righteousness.)

    1. SwordofManticorE profile image75
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      He did not demand he be cleaned... “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. The prodigal son's return is symbolic for us all when we depart this life and return to our Father. The older brother is symbolic for us if we were not sent out into the world. We would not have the appreciation of God's love and forgiveness. The reason why the church is in the state it is in now, is because of its belief system and false doctrines.

      1. theologix profile image60
        theologixposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I stand corrected.  I believe that it is assumed that the Father had him cleaned before the best robe was put on him.  I think though that the parable was a an example of our fall into sin.  And the subsequent actions concerning salvation and redemption through Christ.  I also see how eerily the older brothers actions concerning the returning brother not only mirror the actions of those of the promise (Jews), but also those that have already been saved and have a "relationship" with Christ.

 
working