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Is God a Moral Monster?

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    Sooner28posted 3 years ago

    One objection to utilitarianism (for those not familiar, do a quick Google search of utilitarianism + Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) is that since it is the greatest good for the greatest number, it would justify some horrific practices, such as torture or a scientific lottery. Torture in that even if torture is debasing to humanity, the greater good is being served by preventing the terrorists from blowing us all up, and the scientific lottery in that even though a small percentage of the population (say 1 million out of 330 million) will be sacrificed, the findings for medicine would be enormously beneficial to all.  There are many other examples.  The current one the government attempts to use utilitarianism to defend is the spying on Americans.  It may be a violation of privacy, but it serves the greater good by keeping us all safe! (or so they say).

    If you think these practices are wrong (or at least one of them is wrong), then you also must believe that God is infinitely more immoral, for God has sacrificed many to hell, and for what purpose? God did not have to create human beings, yet he did, knowing full well that many would never choose him (this doesn't violate free will, and is known as Molinism). So, God believes the greater good is served (since he has the knowledge of all consequences) by a large portion of humankind going to hell, and a small portion going to heaven. And, unlike the scientific experiments or lottery, the suffering of those in hell is everlasting; the suffering for science or safety is finite, because a human being currently cannot live forever.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php … d=10005168  Nazi experiments.  They were monsters, but God isn't?  In fact, the Nazis claimed they were aiming for the greater good of humanity, by "eliminating" the "weak" aspects of it.  This was thought to ultimately result in a new, improved human race!  Detestable really, but again the suffering for those killed was only finite, whereas,, again, hell is everlasting punishment.

    Most conservative Christians do not like utilitarianism.  They believe in deontological ethics (an action is inherently right or wrong, regardless of the consequences), and the main objection to utilitarian ethics I laid out is the one most deontologists make to it as well.  So conservative Christians have every reason to accept my account of the situation.

    One cannot say God created us so we could experience his goodness, because the objection still holds.  God would have to believe that some people experiencing his goodness outweighs the majority experiencing eternal torment. 

    And I can go even further.  Even for those who believe that God will save us all, and accept the objection I laid out to utilitarianism, you are still claiming everlasting goodness with God outweighs the bad that humanity has so far had to go through, that many people have to die, needlessly suffer terminal illnesses, lose family members, and the like.

    God's morality cannot be defended.

    I'll sum it up this way:

    1.  If the common objection that utilitarianism allows moral atrocities to be permitted is accepted, then God is a moral monster.

    2.  Conservative Christians, and most of us really, accepts the common objection to utilitarianism.

    3.  Therefore, God is a moral monster.

    One may object that God is not a utilitarian, but the Bible actually says the opposite.  The Bible claims there was a worldwide flood that wiped out nearly all humanity, and the Israelites were ordered numerous times to kill all the inhabitants of a city, be they men, women, or children.  Here are some troublesome verses:

    Exodus 22:17

    Leviticus 20:13

    Leviticus 20:27

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19

    Deuteronomy 17:12

    God also nearly forced Abraham to sacrifice his own son Isaac, just to grow Abraham's faith. 

    Thus, according to the deontological characterization of utilitarianism, which most conservative Christians accept, God is a moral monster.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You can talk in all the roundabout, philosophical terms that you want;  but it won't change the fact that God is God and He can do whatever He wants,  and He Loves all of mankind so much that He sacrificed His only-begotten Son so that you and everyone else could choose to go to heaven to be with Him IF you so want to!     If you have qualms about His goodness,  take it up with Him if you dare.   If Jesus's submission to death on the Cross doesn't prove God's Love for you,  then I doubt anything will.   So why don't you go tell God that He's a "moral monster" and see if He deigns to answer you as you ignore His Son's sacrifice.

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        Sooner28posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Is Jesus God?

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        riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Did god undergo vasectomy?

        A small sacrifice for the greater good!!

    2. SwordofManticorE profile image74
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Sooner, there is no hell. It was created by Christians. But there is a God, and all are reconciled with Him.

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        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        SwardofManticor, there is no hell. It was created by Christians, there is a God, it was created by Jews. Use your brain, it was created by evolution.

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image74
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Use my brain? And you wonder why I don't care talking with people like you.

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            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            So, It's okay for you to tell others there is no hell, but not okay for others to tell you there is no God?

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        Sooner28posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, this argument was directed toward conservative Christianity, so if you don't believe in hell, this isn't against you.

        1. SwordofManticorE profile image74
          SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          no problem.

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    Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago

    And by the way,  the "spying" that our Government is doing........there are valid reasons for some of that.   But yes they go too far, and the current Government has proven to be so biased and fraudulent that I don't trust any of them!   
    So....it's not always how much power someone has,  it's more a case of WHO wields that power.   Can that person or persons be trusted with that power?   Do they adhere to the system of checks and balances (called our Constitution!) that's in place?    This current Government does not do so.   So, no, I wouldn't trust them with my information nor with 2 cents of my money.

    Now....God is an entirely different story.   He is God.  Period.

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      riddle666posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No governments, not even Hitler, can match the atrocities perpetrated by your god!!!

  3. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
    LeslieAdrienneposted 3 years ago

    You would be alright if you had an understanding of God's great love for mankind, but you don't, so you  wouldn't understand no matter how many scriptures were explained to you. Try reading Simon Greenleaf's materials..... Jesus love you

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      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      "Jesus loves you" so you say, but the scripture says something totally different, so ether you are right or the scripture is right. If you are right and the scripture is wrong you are basing your life on something you understand to be wrong. If the scripture is right than your God is not an all loving and forgiving God at all. Or no God exists at all, in which case you've been had.

      1. LeslieAdrienne profile image80
        LeslieAdrienneposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hello Rad Man,
        Show me your refernces....  smile Here are just a few of mine (Oh, God & Jesus & The Holy Spirit are one, so,when the scripture says "God" you can infer Jesus"):
        Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

        John 3:16 - For God so loved the world..... (Oh, yeah, "world" means people)

        John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. {Jesus was saying this)

        Romans 8:39 .... shall be able to separate us from the love of God

        1 Timothy 1:14  ...exceedingly great with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus

        Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God
        God Bless you and Jesus Loves You...

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          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT

          that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, you must attack that town and completely destroyall its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors.

          “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you listen to his voice and keep all his commands that I am giving you today, doing what pleases him.

          Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB

          They might suggest that you worship the gods of peoples who live nearby or who come from the ends of the earth. But do not give in or listen. Have no pity, and do not spare or protect them. You must put them to death! Strike the first blow yourself, and then all the people must join in. Stone the guilty ones to death because they have tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of slavery. Then all Israel will hear about it and be afraid, and no one will act so wickedly again.

          Tell me where is love and or forgiveness in the above scripture?