The bible says that we should love one another as Christ loved us. It also says love others as welove ourselves and not to judge lest we be judged. These scriptures basically coincide with the golden rule of treating others the way we would like to be treated. My question is three part. What does the golden rule mean to you? Based on your understanding, do you apply this rule to your life and treatment of others? If your answer is no,then why not? If yes,then what does your treatment of others say about how you feel about yourself? Christians, how does your treatment of others say about how you view Christ's love for you?
There are no golden rules, and most certainly, the one in which Christians have been bashing us with for centuries has only resulted in conflict and wars.
By simply respecting other peoples wants and needs, we can unite mankind. Religions have no respect for others, hence they will always keep mankind divided and at war.
You are mistaken. The basic morality code we often call the "Golden Rule" is found throughout the world in dozens of cultures and religions. It varies a little by culture and language, of course, but always says something to the effect of "Do unto others as you would they do unto you". Treat others as you wish to be treated. Don't do something to someone else you would not want done to you. Always words along that concept.
It doesn't have much to do with loving your neighbor, though, unless you expand it by claiming we never hurt one we love and always treat them as we would like to be treated. A fallacy, IMO.
Thanks for clarifying that, Wolderness. Do you apply this principle?
I try. Not with 100% success, but I do try. Of all the moral guidelines man has come up with, this one is by far the most important to me - to the point that is nearly the only one necessary.
Can you apply the golden rule when someone is opposition to it?
You can always apply the golden rule regardless of how others choose to behave toward you
I think I would find it very difficult to invoke the golden rule to someone who cares not a jot about it and would seek to destroy me. would you involve the golden rule to Hitler or Stalin for instance?
Christ was talking to a select band of his followers. It could only work if all believed in the same principle and it is obvious that they do not.
I agree, to some extent. But, not when you attempt to apply our ability to love others, and follow the golden rule to Christ. He wasn't talking to his followers and he didn't show, by example, that everyone had to be on the same page. With the exception of the religious who thought they were above others spiritually, Jesus treated everyone in an exemplary manner; as he showed compassion and love. He was crucified, willingly. And, he asked that those who did it be forgiven. So, to tell ourselves that we are only expected to follow the rule when it is convenient, or easy, is a cop out we should take full responsibility for. Not attempt to imply that a role model backs up our shortcomings.
I wonder if anyone loved Hitler enough to try to warn him that he was doing wrong as his power increasingly possessed him...........
That would've been love for him and for everyone, and the "golden rule" applied. Wouldn't everyone want someone to tell them when they see 'em getting ready to go off the cliff?.............
I still think silverspeeder's reference to Hitler and Stalin was right in effect, 'cause this could've been applied directly to then. I think it would've been great love and great respect to have warned Hitler about where he was headed if he didn't straighten up. Matter of fact, a scenario kinda like that was what happened with John the Baptist. John warned the King that he was doing wrong. Whether or not the King allowed John's words to sway him or not (he didn't really), the point is that John showed great love by warning Herod, gave him an opportunity to change his plan of action. John got killed for it, but that was a chance he had to take if he was gonna follow the "golden rule".....
The golden rule isn't about tolerance for wrong-doing, it's about recognizing that we're all fallible and that we need others sometimes to kinda turn us around and point us in the right direction.
Jesus may have been talking to everyone when He said that, but it's obvious that He wouldn't have wanted people to apply the golden rule if they enjoyed being self abusive or abusive etc. Heck, there are some people who foolishly enjoy taking risks with their lives; they want to do what they want no matter what. Should another person who knows that...should they treat the person just as foolishly by cheering them on when they're about to do something horribly stupid? Nope.
I think the golden rule is about viewing others in a positive light, as we view ourselves. It's about finding the good in a situation and letting others know we see it, as we view the good in our own actions. Hitler and Stalin will always be remembered for the horror. We don't know who they were before they found themselves on the paths that made them famous, but I believe when someone goes wrong somewhere, along the way, we wronged them. Someone wasn't there to be a positive influence at a crucial moment when it could have changed history.
You are right, love isn't a cheering competition, but it isn't holier than thou preaching. It isn't about warning away from the path of hell. It's about sharing the path harmoniously. Until we accept that our actions are intricately tied to the actions of others and that no perceived wrong done by another isn't intertwined to a thousands moments where others could have made a positive difference, but didn't. Really, it is coaxing the good out of ourselves to coax the good out of others. But, we have to first accept the good in others. Checking off the blocks to convince ourselves we are good is approaching it from the wrong direction and usually means we are doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Those who observe us see the wrong reasons as clearly as they see our actions.
I see your view.
But I disagree of course.
It IS indeed about warning them about the path to hell.
And ultimately their responsibility to make the choice to get the heck off that path.
We are not to walk it with them.
As Deepes says, you can always apply the rule if you can only discern how others wish to be treated. For that, too, is a part of it; to treat others as they would like you to.
And you can decide that those in opposition wish to be treated that way as well, and do so...
Thanks for answering. Would you like to answer the second part of the question?
Exactly, it is important to YOU, while it may not be as important to someone else who may use it as a simple guideline, instead.
I don't think those are "golden rules" but instead simple guidelines of behavior that have evolved in humans and other animals.
Understandable,. I was simply using a common term for the principle. Would you like to answer the question?
But, it shows as a misnomer when we use the term, "Golden Rule" because it implies an absolute and there are far to many variables in the human condition to warrant any absolutes.
Okay. Point taken. Fair enough, ATM. Now do you have an answer to my question that you would like to provide?
I thought I answered all your questions, forgive me if I missed something, could you please point it out?
Forgive me. I may have missed your answer somewhere between you telling me what believers lack and telling me I was basically wrong for referring to a principle as a rule. My question was do you treat others the way you want to bee treated? If not, why. If yes then what do you think it says about how you feel about yourself
Absolutely, if I was being dishonest and began spouting irrational beliefs and attempting to convert others to my belief system with threats, I would certainly want others to tell me in no uncertain terms, to the point, concise and accurate in their swiftian delivery of mocking and ridiculing, to tell me I am a bold face liar. I have no problem with that.
I know and have known for a long time that if I am dishonest with myself, I certainly cannot be honest with anyone else.
Whether that rule is "golden" somehow is immaterial. That is the common name given it, probably because it is very nearly universal.
The biblical refernce was directed toward Christians. The golden rule of treat others as you want to be treated was for everyone else. Let me rephrase for you : do you respect others the way you want them to respect you? If no then why? If yes what does your treatment of others say about you?
Respect is about honesty and integrity, it isn't about loving people. I don't love anyone other than my own family and friends. However, I certainly respect anyone who shows honesty and integrity, something very much devoid here on these forums.
Your question should be posed at those who are void of honesty and integrity, they will probably state something about loving others, instead.
respect other's wants and needs? what if they "want" more that is their fair share? Do we respect that? what if they want something perverted or unnatural or ridiculous? Should we respect that?
I attempt to treat each individual with the utmost respect until it is proven otherwise that they do not warrant that level of respect. I have been helping the low income for the past six months.
It has been a rewarding endeavor until recently. Lately it seems that individuals will take advantage of kindness. Recently some individuals treat me as if my kindness is something I owe them.
My crusade of making things better for others is turning into a daily drama of "I want and I want it now".
As much as my pursuit means to me personally, I am becoming disenfranchised with society as a whole. I am trying to deal with it as a universal test of my fortitude. Unfortunately, I feel as if I am going to fail the test. I have had to painfully reject four individuals in the past week alone. Cut them completely out of my life and my endeavors. This saddens me so.
Up until the past week, I have been rewarded immensely for my efforts. Patience, I cannot allow myself to fail. Thinking of others before myself is a goal I have set. Then all of a sudden I am bombarded with a cacophony of demands. I do not respond to demands.
Perhaps I am missing something?
This is very interesting, RB. It is true... the more you give the more they expect. It is human nature.
We must establish boundaries to protect Ourselves.
The Golden Rule is treating others as we expect to be treated. We must expect to be treated with respect and sincerity. Appreciation and politeness. Love and care. Kindness and respect. Did I mention respect? If we do not receive respect, we must stay in a position of command and give to others when we determine it is deserved.
A position of command? Christ submitted himself to death... death on a cross... for those who were spitting on him, mocking him and torturing him. He did not demand respect, and no one deserved it more.
True, Beth... I meant self-command. Command over himself. He was doing as God wished. God so loved the world that he sent someone 100% willing...
To do His will
To redeem us
And bring us back to Him.
Thank Goodness for Jesus' command over himself. He did not say, "Get me out of this obligation to save the world....
It is God who loves us so much, respects us so much, is kind to us, and cares for us.
As Jesus did too.
(The way I see it)
Loving someone is doing for them what you would do for your own child.
It means offering forgiveness even though they may not deserve it.
It means sacrificing what is beneficial for you if it is beneficial for them.
It means using self restraint and tenderness.
Jesus was the perfect example of love.
But you must understand what is required for forgiveness to be received.
A little thing called repentance. Jesus required that. And yes He was and is the epitome of Love!
Actually, it isn't for us to judge who deserves forgiveness. And, saying we forgive basically says we've measured and found lacking....but, we magnanimously decide it's ok. That's irritating. What we should do (and doesn't work in my experience) is view it from afar long enough to understand our percentage of guilt and ask forgiveness for that.
I agree with everything else though.
So your qualm is that you feel we put our self in the judges seat when we choose to forgive? I understand that, but I believe the Bible is specifically talking about when we have been wronged. If a drunk driver has killed someone we love, if a spouse has cheated on us, if someone has destroyed something dear to us etc. Not putting ourselves in God's place, where we can forgive them of their sins, only forgive them their wrongs against us.
Well, in those situations you do more good for yourself than you do the other person. Hate eats you up. Don't you think?
100% I do.
There's this Christian musician, Keith Green, that died back in the 80's... an amazing guy.
He used to say something like... not offering forgiveness was like taking a sugar coated cyanide pill and waiting for the other person to die.
I love that. I'll have to remember it.I should be able to use it this Saturday.
Whatcha doing Sat.?
(Here's a similar one by Nelson Mandela)
“Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies.”
You'll be sorry you asked.
Meeting of the heirs. Dysfunctional children from what was once a functional family. One sister hates me for reasons unknown. When my dad slipped into a coma she left the hospital. I was worried, so called and left a message. She called me the next day and hung up when my phone rang. I called, to find she had called so I would call only to hear a message that she had blocked the number. My other sister, is executor and has been self dealing. It appears she has also stolen funds from the estate. She hates me too. Although, she hates me because I know she was self dealing. My brother, who likes me, says we are going to beat them at their own game and snake the lion's share of the estate (because the sisters decided it will be split in two). I don't want to do anything but have everyone get an equal share. And, I'm called the black sheep of the family for it.
Not looking forward to the reunion. But, I may use your line on my sister.
Im sorry. That sucks. Im sorry about your dad too.
My sister and I never got along when we were young. We fought like cats and dogs. I just wanted us to love each other like I'd seen other sisters do. Later in life she ended up joining the Boston based Church of Christ, which was a cult church... familial relationships were diminished. I worried we'd never be reconciled. But over the years that church modified it's behavior. They admitted to being off track and she began to improve. I just went to see her in FL. a few weeks ago and she was just really positive. I commented on it and she said she had realized there were many areas where she had fallen short over the years and had actually been changing. At 50 (she's quite a bit older than me) here she was saying something about growing up... all that to say... don't say anything you'll regret. Let them do that. In time, they may very well grow up and ask for your forgiveness... just do your best to rise to the top, the way you do on these threads. You almost always take the high road. Hang in there. You're in my prayers.
Thanks. I seriously doubt they'll ever attempt to reconcile. I just hope they stop hating. We couldn't get along even in the best of times, although we did as kids. Not sure why. You wonder how people from the same family could grow up to be so different.
I know. It's bizarre. You never know though. Time changes things.
Actually, I think I figured this one out. People from the same family turn out differently because each one has a unique perspective of the events happening. Each person can go through the same things but view them differently and act on their individual view of the events. This is why there is often a difference between siblings, or anyone else for that matter. In a like manner, a Christian and an atheist can go through the same exact experiences in life and while an atheist may view things scientifically, a Christian will view it spiritually and each one will act as according to their beliefs (or lack thereof). The conflict comes in because each person is looking at a situation from a different perspective and both sides think they are right
Yeh. The question was really rhetorical. I do know how we all ended up being so different. My problem with my sisters isn't that I don't know both sides can be right, to some extent. It's that they don't appear to. Ever known people that there was absolutely no middle ground with? Their way, or the highway to hell were the only options they offered?
One of my favorite sayings is "Forgiveness is the key that opens the lock and the realization that you were the one in bondage ". It reminds me that while I'm holding onto anger, the person I'm angry with is sleeping peacefully.
I see forgiveness like this:
Forgiveness sets Us free. If God forgives us, through Jesus, who are we to take that away from any one?
Sorta Related Random thought:
I like to say this:
"Who am I to argue with you?"
- But one must be ready
to not argue...
(It is actually fun to just keep quiet whenever you notice someone wanting to get into an argument with you
for whatever reason.)
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