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Atheists, what the hell is your problem?

  1. Ranzi profile image85
    Ranziposted 3 years ago

    Whether religion/God is real or not, i‘m sick of these fanatical soul destroying atheists who try and shatter any hope or peace of mind out of believers. What is it? Pure envy that you have no faith? One atheist once confessed that the most depressing day of his life was when he realized there was no God. Hypothetically speaking if a kid wants to believe in santa claus because this brings joy to their life, is it your right to take that away?. My argument is not about if God exists or not.. As my faith is not so strong, however why cant you athiests leave those believers who are happy in their beliefs alone?  Is it too much to bear for you to see them having the peace of mind that they will see their loved ones when they die (if true or not) or you can't bear that their life holds a purpose, while you live yours lost. Or is it that you take pride in converting them into your world of depression and no hope?

    1. psycheskinner profile image79
      psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Zealots of either kind are equally irritating for the same basic reasons.

      But I must say "what is your problem" is not really indicative of a "live and let live" philosophy.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. I took the OP as confrontational. Confrontational people might be what the hell Atheists problem is.

      2. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This is my rant as it's something that has been getting on my nerves.  Same thing goes for religious fanatics

      3. lone77star profile image90
        lone77starposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        psycheskinner, you make an interesting, but shallow point.

        If someone loves to murder little children, then we're not going to get all warm and fuzzy about their favorite pastime, are we?

        When people are destructive, they do not show a "live and let live" attitude. So, child murderers and rowdy atheists are hereby being requested to chill -- put a sock in it -- try a non-abusive approach to life. What's wrong with expecting them to be "live and let live?" And I see nothing wrong in asking the rowdy or murderous, "what's your problem?"

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Notice how the believer must equate the non-believer to "child murderers" in order to defend their own intolerance.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, not when the obvious bone of contention is defining when human life begins, not the murder of children. 

            Indeed, the only murderers I see are those bastions of religion, believing human life starts with fertilization, that go on to say it is OK to murder that life in case of incest, rape, etc. as if the fetus is no longer human because it is the product of a rape.  I don't believe I've ever seen a non-believer taking that stance

          2. Cgenaea profile image58
            Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It is the disrespectful speech that was equated with the murderous; clearly.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              And, your religion has some of the most disrespectful speech ever uttered, clearly.

              1. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Hey "...Trouble..." smile
                I got no religion. Lord knows... I'm just totally convinced that the spiritual realm is the place to go for life's answers. It is not at all difficult for me to believe.  I don't really agree with holy-rollerism. But Jesus really didn't either.  I prefer his truths.  I enjoy his mannerisms. And I love the way he loves me. His message rings true for me. I don't recall him saying religion is the way. The church practices have been a bit unfulfilling personally. Not that I bash people who go to churches; I just don't. 
                Religion is not what you call my practice. I haven't considered a name for it. But since I am so familiar with Jesus, I guess I am somewhat Christian. But tgat denominational thing gets tricky for me. People make toi much of certain "words"

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but you have a religion, it's called Christianity.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You may call it whatever you like. smile

                  2. Donald Ogba profile image82
                    Donald Ogbaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Will want u to know that Christianity WAS not a religion until Rome hijacked it. So if someone who is going back to the basics describes him or her self as not having a religion please do understand why.

                2. Donald Ogba profile image82
                  Donald Ogbaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  What about tagging urself a churchless Christian? Am like u and thats how I describe myself.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess that's one way to put it.

              2. Tbland profile image61
                Tblandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Everyone wants to talk about having an open...until they come face to face with truth. That's when the lines must be drawn, because no one wants here that there is an absolute truth. That there is a right and wrong, they don't want to be punished for their crimes and hatred of God. Yet, by human standards we want justice for crimes done to us(child or adult)...why then get mad at God for doing the same thing...? this is the answer to 'What's your problem?' In Christ's own words...
                This is Jesus speaking:
                19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed". (John 3:19-20 NIV)

                1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                  Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey, wow. That sounds just like the Christian Church as a whole!

                  1. Tbland profile image61
                    Tblandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Zelkiiro, are you talking about my comment? If so, please explain what you are talking about.

                2. Cgenaea profile image58
                  Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  That was very exciting to me. Whew. Truth. Truth
                  10 stars... marvelous timing.

                3. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but your God's justice is not justice at all, it is hatred, malice and selfish tyranny when compared to human standards. Your religion does not offer any truths, let alone absolute truths, it offers only myths and superstitions from the Bronze Age.

                  1. Tbland profile image61
                    Tblandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you, you have proven my point.

                4. 60
                  HundredDollarBillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Hmmmmm

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      They get a kick out of it...
      anything else you want to know?

      1. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I think you're right. It reminds me of a smoker who gets upset when one of their mates quits smoking and offers them a ciggy  every time they see them

    3. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The fact that you were brave enough to stand up, on behalf of others, was generous of you. I understand where you were coming from so allow me to say thank you for speaking out for ppl you felt were being bullied. I assume it wasn't easy for you.

      1. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks Beth, you're absolutely right just scrolling through some of the forums I noticed a lot of belittling and bullying happening.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Bullied? LOL.

        Wow, the hypocrisy of the OP is overwhelming. Of course, it is the Christians who tell us what to believe and how to live. Then, they threaten us will eternal hellfire if we don't abide by their rules. They call us evil and followers of Satan along with a host of other names if we don't readily accept their beliefs. They lie about everything and anything to defend their faith.

        It is the Christians who are the bullies.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Your life is your own, do as you please.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            As is yours, so please keep your religion behind closed doors where it belongs so we can all live our lives without hearing it.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              And if I said that to a homosexual person? Would you tolerate that?
              Again, I have yet to start a "religious" thread. How many have you started?

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Homosexuals are not evangelizing.



                What does that have to do with your evangelism?

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                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I believe in God. I believe He is real and good and true and I have had dozens and dozens and dozens of experiences with Him, some miraculous.

                  Is that evangelizing?

                  If your response is to accuse, question or cast doubt, then I might respond with something that comes across as evangelizing... which is also free speech. You can silence me, but I believe it is simply a form of bigotry.

                  As far as starting threads, my point was, I usually respond to threads that an Atheist or Agnostic has started. I seldom ever respond to threads a Christian has started b/c 9 times out of 10 I don't agree with the original poster or the general tone set in the thread.

                  So if I am responding to a thread you or another has started, then I would imagine that you were the instigator... so why would you then tell me to be silent after having instigated the conversation. lol... It's an obvious ploy and it's repeated daily.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It is all you do. Odd you need to lie and claim you do not. Why is that?

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    No, that is delusion and dishonesty.



                    Agreed, your religion is full of bigotry, lots of it, and do indeed have the right to propagate it. It's not a matter of silencing you, it is a matter of education.



                    Of course, that isn't true at all, but I don't expect much, if any honesty from you.

              2. Ranzi profile image85
                Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That's an excellent question Beth

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks. It made sense to me.

                2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  How can that be an excellent question when it makes no sense whatsoever? Are you saying homosexuals evangelize their homosexuality door to door? Are you serious?

                  It would only make sense if you hated homosexuals.

              3. aliasis profile image96
                aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Gay people, like me, are not "evangelizing". We're trying to gain equal rights and stop persecution. Gay persecution is a real thing - gay people get spit on, yelled at, beat up, raped, and even murdered. Guess what one of the biggest reasons discrimination and homophobia exists is? Maybe you guessed: religion.

                I have no problem with religion if they aren't hurting or discriminating against other people, but I do have a problem with you telling gay people to leave it behind closed doors - when exposing the horrors of intolerance is the only way to move forward.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Do you believe that ppl of faith do not understand persecution?

                  "but I do have a problem with you telling gay people to leave it behind closed doors"

                  When did I ever do that? I was in fact the one who made the very point that in today's world, that is not acceptable. That's my quote above that your responding to.

                  Have many ppl who called themselves followers of God done terrible things in His name? Without a doubt. There are many officers of the law who have done atrocities, as well as parents, teachers, ppl in authority who should be trusted, basically. This is sad, evil and wrong. It's the very reason I believe today's world needs Jesus and if you believe you and I have equal rights, I should be allowed to express that belief without persecution.

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Those who yell persecution simply because others don't accept the irrational beliefs shoved down their throats most certainly have no understanding of persecution.



                    History is replete with ample examples.



                    You are not being persecuted, so don't complain about it. We don't need your Jesus and we don't want to hear you telling us that. Your evangelism is not the same as having equal rights, it is an abuse of those rights.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Persecution? When have you ever been persecuted for your religious beliefs in North America?

                  3. getitrite profile image79
                    getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    We need Jesus huh?  After all the horrible atrocities caused by believers of Jesus, you think we, somehow, still need this garbage....like Jesus is some kind of an answer.  Just pour some more fuel on the flames.   Jesus is not the answer, Jesus is the problem.

                    And I should be able to express that belief without persecution.

                  4. aliasis profile image96
                    aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I apologize if I somehow am misinterpreting your post, but it sounds like

                    a) you're saying that Christians are routinely persecuted on a level compared to gay people

                    b) or you should have the right to tell gay people they should keep it behind closed doors.

                    For the record, I don't agree with the above poster that religious people have to keep it behind closed doors, I think everyone has the right to live their religion as they see fit - however, respecting separation of church and state, respecting the choices of other people, not persecuting others. There is a difference between asserting your religious belief, and actively denying the rights (and safety, and life) of people you disagree with.

                    I don't necessarily agree that religion is inherently the problem. But I would say that people using religion for bad reasons is a problem, and a lot of people have suffered and continue to suffer for that.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          No, its the atheists who are the bullies. How dare you say we are bullies. Christians are not bullies by their very natures! Proof please? Quotes.

          1. Zelkiiro profile image85
            Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You sound awfully defensive.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Do I?  proof please. quotes.  What a bash this is!

              1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You're about a couple clouds of digital spittle away from having automated machine gun turrets on top of your rhetorical fortress. That's quite defensive.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  --->what is a cloud of non-digital spittle? can spittle of any type be shot from turrets?  Have you ever illustrated that image?

                  1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Clearly interpreting metaphors is something you're lacking in.

                    "Your vehement defensive posts are metaphorically creating a fortress, and you're just a few more away from having automated defenses on said fortress." <-- Is that clear and obvious enough for you yet, or do I have to simplify it further?

          2. JMcFarland profile image92
            JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            do Christians not call atheists names or tell them that they're going to hell because they don't believe in god?

            Christians don't have a very good track record of being tolerant.  They burned people at the stake for believing a different religion - or even suspecting someone of being a different religion.  They accused people by the hundreds of witchcraft for using herbs.  They burned, tortured and slaughtered people in the hundreds of thousands ever since Christianity became the official state religion of Rome.  Does that sound tolerant to you?  How about the Christians who tell homosexuals that they don't deserve equal rights because they're immoral or unnatural.  How about the Christians who want to put religion back into public schools - but only THEIR religion.  The same Christians that would pitch a fit if someone offered an Islamic prayer in the same school.  DO you not see these events as bullying?

            Are Christians the only people who should have the right to freedom of religion or free speech?  Don't atheists have the right to express themselves?  I'm sorry you don't like it, but that doesn't mean we can't say it.  The fact that we express our opinions does not limit or restrict your rights.  If you want the freedom to believe and say whatever you want, the opposition shares the same.  That's just the way it works.

            1. Ranzi profile image85
              Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You should know that those Christians were not following the teachings of Jesus. Please don't base your facts on a bunch of psychopaths that gave Christianity a bad name

              1. JMcFarland profile image92
                JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                The point is that the people who did that DID believe that they were following the bible - and saying what you just posted in that one post would be enough to get you tortured, condemned and burned at the stake.  You know that, right?

                And what about the Christians today?  They don't torture people, but you've got some of them saying that homosexuals should be executed and the only way possible for a Christian to attend a gay wedding is if they make and hold up a sign quoting Leviticus that says they should be put to death?

                the "oh those people weren't true christians is the No True Scotsman  fallacy.  It's a logical fallacy common but still irrelevant in debates.

                Beliefs do not exist in a vacuum.  They affect other people - often negatively.  That's what atheists care about - the true separation of Church and state.  Don't you think it's slightly hypocritical for someone wearing a cross around their neck with a Jesus fish on their car to want me to change my shirt if it says "atheist" on it because I am "pushing my atheism" on them by wearing a t-shirt in a free country that allows them to prominently display their religious icons?

                1. 60
                  Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes but I believe that violence is the nature of man. Also many Christians don't condemn they volunteer time to the community to help and better it to those who want it. You can take extremist from every section of society in the world not just religious groups. I have had atheist attack me, and tell me to call to my god for help if he was real. I'm not even a bible thumping Christian. I believe all have the right to live as they please, and none know if what they believe is real.

                  Also although we hold opposing views, I admire you. You are a great writer and also a amazing thinker JMc may I follow you?

                  1. JMcFarland profile image92
                    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    you have had an atheist attack you?  In what form? 

                    Did they physically hurt you?   

                    I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe.

                  2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    But, that is not true, if it were, we wouldn't be here talking so pleasantly. It is actually bad ideologies like your religion that causes good people to do bad things. And of course, the bad things that occur are usually committed by a very tiny minority of the overall population.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You are agreeing with and defending them here on these forums.

          3. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Those are the facts. Sorry, if you don't like the label, but it is dead on correct.

          4. aliasis profile image96
            aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I get told I'm going to hell all the time for not being a Christian.

            It's much worse than a simple "you're going to hell" when many Christians find out I'm gay.

            Sorry if I don't feel sorry for members of the majority religion and their whining about how victimized they are.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              +1

              Great posts, aliasis!

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          Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Hey man I have been following this forum and while you say that all Christians do is fight, fight, fight while you seem to be the antagonist. While I am not a "Christian" I cant say that they are all bad the majority I have met and befriended seem to be good, loving humans just as  my Islamic, Hindi, and Sick friends. I you are truly a atheist who wants to change the world for the better, change yourself and stop being so argumentative.
          accept peoples views as their own and be confident in your own, as Christians say " turn the other cheek."
          If I come off as rude I apologize. Also what is with this getting upset about the fiery pits of hell? how is that a insult if you don't believe in it, I don't get offended by that anymore than I would if someone told me Zeus would come down and smite me with a lightning bolt. It is silly.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No, you're not rude, you're just not observing reality and what is going in the world. There would be no need to say anything at all if Christian simply kept their beliefs behind closed doors where they belong.



            Of course, it's silly, but that doesn't diminish the fact that people are evangelizing that nonsense, that they are pushing it down our throats and all we ask is that they stop.

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              Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              ya I apologize as I read on realized the Christians on this forum can be just as bad.

        4. Tbland profile image61
          Tblandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Your fight and anger is with God, So why are you continuously saying "Christians"  this and that...Christ himself  has said that those who do not believe "condemn themselves"
              I understand now, as I read these comments, what Jesus meant when he said; if they hate me, they will hate you also .

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, but God is not the one writing nonsense on these forums or didn't you know that?



            Yes, I understand Christians are compelled to pass on what they believe to others especially when they are threats of condemnation, that is why they don't take responsibility for their own actions and cause so much conflict in the world, as you're doing now.
               


            Me hating Jesus and you ---> lol

    4. JMcFarland profile image92
      JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Does the fact that something is enjoyable make it good?  If you knew someone who enjoyed drinking battery acid and wanted to give it to their children,  would you let them?

      I have no problem with personal faith.  The problem is that personal faith is rarely personal.   When theists go out of their way to threaten me with hell,  it's no longer personal and my free speech is just as valid as their's.  When they vote to restrict or condemn gay rights, it's affecting the equal rights of others and it's no longer personal faith. If people want to be free to believe what they want, they have to recognize that other people have the same right to disagree.

      I'm not out to deconvert anyone.   I like discussing religion because I was raised in it and I've spent a lifetime studying it.   If that's problematic for atheists to express their views, it's equally problematic for theists.  Simple.

      1. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Comparing the teachings of jesus to battery acid is a bit far fetched. I do agree that some God lovers do go out of their way to preach however I have noticed that there's a huge growing atheist movement out there that spend their lives on forums and posting anti god slogans and they seem to take pride and go above and beyond to prove there's no God.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Sometimes, I wonder if they're getting a paycheck from... It's the same with the topic of socialism. Thank goodness that discussion has died down. Keep fighting, I say....for the sake of those who believe. But, If its too much for (any of) YOU, stop.
          Some prominent atheists here are from other countries. Our country is based on religious freedom.  Actually, I accept atheists just fine. I wish they understood this attitude.
          Why would we fight
          them????
          We believers fight for our right to believe, in my estimation.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, that's what it all boils down to, you fight and fight and fight, and then pull the persecution card when folks get tired of your fighting all the time.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You give us reason to fight. Otherwise we would just be living peacefully without a care in the world...

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That is so far from the truth, it is hilarious.

                YOU are the ones who start the fights. You do not live in peace and you don't allow others to live in peace.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Show us these anti-god slogans, or else retract your accusation.

        3. JMcFarland profile image92
          JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          This makes me think you don't know many atheists.  We don't have to disprove a god until one had been proven.   That's never happened.

          So Christians can flood the forms with religious posts, but atheists don't have the free speech to respond with their opinions and thoughts?  I like discussing religion because I've spent my life studying it.  Should only people who agree be allowed to participate?   If so,  then each denomination should have their own specific forum as well.  That's the pesky thing about free speech.  It applies to everyone.

      2. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Shh!  It's OK for the theist to follow the edicts of their god and browbeat everyone in hearing with threats of hellfire, but it's not OK for the atheist to ever say anything at all.

        Reminds me of the Christian I saw in Vegas; set up a PA system outside the Bellagio, on the sidewalk, and harangued people waiting for the water show.  Really, really irritating to have this Bimbo 10' away with her loudspeakers going after my soul when all I wanted was to see the dancing waters.  I was glad when the show started as it kept me from putting a foot into the woofers or throwing the microphone into the pond.

        There was a Japanese tour waiting with me; made me wonder what kind of view of Americans they were going to take home with them.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So, you take it out on us, here in the hP forums?
          Who browbeats with threats of hellfire, here?
          Quotes please.

        2. JMcFarland profile image92
          JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You want to know something funny?   On any given day, I can walk and and see hundreds of crucifixes around people's necks.  If I wear an atheist shirt, however,  I am suddenly offensive and blatantly flaunting my atheism.   The double standard is simultaneously amusing and disturbing.   Apparently,  only the religious have the right to flaunt their beliefs and anyone else who does the same is somehow infringing on THEIR rights, somehow.

    5. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      So, you admit believers are just little children who need to believe in fairy tales?

    6. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Tell you what - you keep your irrational beliefs to yourself and I promise not to tell you how silly they are.

      Do we have a deal?

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        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Just to clarify... I think this is what she was addressing.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Really? How odd. Wasn't that a reasonable offer?

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            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If I silence myself concerning all matters of faith, you promise not to mock and insult me and or my beliefs? I guess I should have thanked you.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              If you believe garbage - that is your business. Sorry your beliefs are so silly, but you cannot honestly expect to share them without being mocked. Really?

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                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Again, I believe this is the tone she was addressing.
                (And no, you certainly don't have to share them. Your life is... Your Own.)

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Please don't be such a martyr. Believe garbage - that is your business. Spread it and you will be mocked. I mean - have you read that garbage scripture you keep copy pasting? Odd - you don't want the deal either? Believers never do. sad

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                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    A martyr? I wasn't aware. No one has set my couch on fire... I don't feel like a martyr... but duly noted. smile

              2. Ranzi profile image85
                Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Mark Knowles - May I use you as the perfect case study (Bully) for my post. Kind regards smile

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure, as long as you make sure that you admit you started an inflammatory, insulting forum thread and called people names. Like in the post I'm replying to.

                  There's a word for people who do what they call down others for doing...

                  Starts with an H.

                  The fact is you purposely started a conversation that caused at last look, 5 pages of the behavior you claim to be above... and you did it on purpose.

                  That word starts with a T.

                  1. Ranzi profile image85
                    Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    No need to create fabrications. Quote"You did that on purpose" ... you must also have a natural talent as a psychic since you claim to also mind read. When and where did i call anyone the following.. evil, dilusional, garbage, dishonest, bigot?

              3. 60
                HundredDollarBillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Dang! This dude is ruthless! Imagine him as dictator

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Is that a promise?

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Are promises usually followed by question marks?

                *The above is not a promise.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Ah, so you will continue to evangelize.

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    If you keep posting threads encouraging a Christian response, you will eventually get one from me... that is not a promise, but you can probably bet the farm on it.

    7. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, this false hope has been tied to religions....pretending to be the comforter of the downtrodden, sick, and dying.   But when you read the Holy Books, what you read mostly is about an insufferable torment, and  persistent abuse, bullying and murder of everyone who doesn't conform.  How can a monstrous concept as such provide any kind of comfort?  People don't need this evil  in order to feel hope.  They just need to become adults.

    8. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
      schoolgirlforrealposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You couldn't have said it better. I admire you. I am currently writing a new hub about Why I Have Come Back to the Catholic Church! blessings smile peace love

    9. Claire Evans profile image88
      Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The truth is because they are terrified they may be wrong and are trying to convince Christians, or belittle them, to make them feel better and more vindicated.  Usually those type of atheists are those how were formerly Christians.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No, it's that we understand that we are right, and would like people to stop telling us to believe as they do or we will burn in hell. It's only been a few years since I've been able to shop on a Sunday. We have a Pope who says "who is he to judge" and then tells his followers to refuse to perform abortions and that homosexuals acts are sins. We have the religious actively involved in promoting their beliefs in politics. So if you are allowed to voice your opinion so am I.

      2. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The Bible is a book of silly childish fairy tales.  Only people with minds riddled with paranoia would allow themselves to be terrified by such primitive and foolish make-believe.  If you fear fairy tales, that's fine, although cause for concern......but please stop slandering others.  SMH

        1. Claire Evans profile image88
          Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Slandering others? And you don't think you do exactly that?

          1. getitrite profile image79
            getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No I don't.  Slandering is making false, smearing accusations against someone.  I have only stated facts about the absurd beliefs of Christians and other deluded minds.  Of course you are welcome to, and I encourage you, to deconstruct my arguments at any time....to prove that I have committed slander.

            1. Claire Evans profile image88
              Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You can't speak for all atheists.  How can you say for sure what I said isn't true? You are also assuming that Christians have deluded minds.  Who says that is true for all?

              1. getitrite profile image79
                getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I never said that I did know for sure....but there is something called logic, and using simple logic, your beliefs carry the same weight as Rumpelstiltskin, or Dark Vader.  I don't see anyone trying to make absolutely sure that Rumpelstiltskin isn't a true story.  Seems kinda desperate.



                What is your definition of deluded?



                I guess it just all comes down to intellectual honesty.

                1. savvydating profile image86
                  savvydatingposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  getitrite, you have no idea what intellectual honesty is. Your "logic" has no basis in sound scholarship; it is merely sarcasm clothed in "intellectual" wording that may sound logical to the uninformed, but in reality, is actually riddled with flawed theories. In short, any scholar worth their salt would have no choice but to disagree with your flawed version of what constitutes actual truth. In other words, guidelines exist for determining what is historically accurate and what is not. You have not met any of those guidelines --ever-- in anything you have written with regard to Bible history. Furthermore, you have been especially arrogant and belittling in your comments toward Claire Evans, who unlike you, has always replied to your sarcasm without malice and with solid research. In fact, toward her, you have been the perfect bully.  I am not impressed with your false intellectualism. You can delude your friends, or those who don't know any better -- but you don't impress me. Bullies don't have the discipline or courage for intellectual honesty-- that's why they're bullies.

                  1. getitrite profile image79
                    getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    And just who would you define as the "uninformed"...? 



                    Could you cite examples of my flawed logic, then we can go from there?



                    Unless someone has  been living under a rock, they should know that....the bible is NOT history!

                    "The historical narratives of the Old Testament are filled with legendary fabrications and the book of Acts in the New Testament contains historically unreliable information about the life and teachings of Paul. Many of the books of the New Testament are pseudonymous – written not by the apostles but by later writers claiming to be apostles. The list goes on."
                                                                                                          ~Bart Ehrman



                    Research?  Hilarious!  Those replies were all from a perspective of delusion, twisting logic and posing more illogical unproven rhetoric, as if that's the method by which one PROVES his/her point.  However, I do sympathize with Claire.



                    I simply tried to get her to see that her assertions make no sense at all....in the REAL world.  And, again, I do sympathize with Claire.  It is the delusion, which has permeated her thoughts, that I am attacking.



                    Wow!  Someone finally caught me....trying to pass as intelligent.  I had a good con going until you came along and exposed me for the phony that I really am.  Please don't tell any of my friends, as I still have them all tricked. lol


                    Good luck with your anti-bullying campaign.  Let me know if I can help.

                2. Claire Evans profile image88
                  Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  According to your logic you must also think that there is a possibility that Rumpelstiltskin exists? No atheist is threatened by Rumpelstiltskin so why should they invest energy into debunking a thing that they know doesn't exist.  I believe that in the back of all atheists' mind that they believe it is a possibility that God exists even if they think so subconsciously.






                  Look it up in the dictionary.  It's to deceive the mind.  I will admit that I believe some Christians are deluded when they refuse to condemn something in the Bible which is obviously against what Jesus is.  For example, Jesus said those who live by the sword die by the sword but how many instances are there in the Bible where it says God orders to the Israelites to go to war?





                  According to your intellectual honesty God may exist.  So if Christians believe in God how can you believe they are all deluded?

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    No, that is not in the back of an atheist's mind, no matter how much you want to believe it is.

                    The point is that your God is no different than Rumpelstiltskin from an atheist perspective, there is no evidence for their existence You yourself most likely do not believe Rumpelstiltskin exists, yet you believe your God exists despite the fact both have no evidence for existence other than words in a book. No one needs to invest any time in debunking the existence of Rumpelstiltskin because no one claims he exists.

    10. 0
      MysticMoonlightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Wow!!! Just imagine the OUTRAGE if someone started a 'Christians, what the hell is your problem?' forum. Just think about that for a second. I can see the words that'd be flying like daggers: religious persecution, God haters, Satan influenced, bully, bully, bully, (a lot of bully I bet) just to name a few. Sure looks like someone is picking a fight here but I could have it totally wrong...

      1. 0
        MysticMoonlightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, and it's also very funny (but not so much) that when there is a forum started about 'Atheists, what the hell is your problem?' people (Christians?) respond with "Hey, thanks for sticking up for us!"

        I SEROUSLY doubt that would ever fly well if it were the other way around.

    11. HowardBThiname profile image88
      HowardBThinameposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm an atheist, Ranzi and I understand your feelings. I've run into the atheists you're talking about and it's rarely pleasant. It's almost as if they are so angry that others believe in something that they feel they must "enlighten them."

      Sometimes, however, these atheists are acting out because believers, often a friend or family member - pulls that old "I'll pray for you stunt" that puts them on the spot.

      My hope is that we all all agree to disagree. If it works for you - or anyone - I'm happy for you. Whether that belief be Christian, pagan, Muslim or Hindi - who am I to tell you what you must leave behind?

      1. 60
        Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Well put. I could not agree with you more. This is exactly the view that all people should have.

    12. aliasis profile image96
      aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      "or you can't bear that their life holds a purpose, while you live yours lost. Or is it that you take pride in converting them into your world of depression and no hope?"

      Sounds an awful like you bullying atheists here, calling their lives sad and hopeless. If you can't even refrain from being hypocritical, why are you making this argument in the first place?

      Christians are not bullied. I'm sorry, they are not. They are the majority religion, and (unfortunately) many of our politicians in power choose to vote and make laws based on that religion, unconstitutional as it is.

      I have no problem with the idea of Christians, and most Christians I know are normal people, just as most atheists are normal people. But the fact is, there are a lot of Christians that actively want to persecute the lives of others in a way that is simply not comparable to an atheist ragging on the historical (and logical) inaccuracies of the Bible. There's nothing wrong with any belief if it isn't hurting others, but a lot of conservative Christians do have beliefs that hurt others.

      I don't have to respect anyone who is telling me that I'm going to hell. Or anyone that hurts women, gay people, people of other religions and atheists because of their beliefs.

      Granted, I don't see why people can't have common courtesy and respect, especially when dealing with issues that are important to some people, like religion. But most alleged "bullying" that Christians receive is just so laughable compared to actually oppressed minority groups. In a public forum, yeah, people are going to debate and disagree, and they are allowed their opinions. Religion can be critiqued, as well as scientific theories. If your faith is that strong, it shouldn't hurt you anyway, and who knows, maybe participating in debates will expand your way of thinking a little.

    13. 60
      Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Also  this whole thing is silly. None of you should be talking because none of you have taken the time to listen or consider the opposing views here please keep all your rubbish to yourself. Christian or atheist you sound like a bunch of hateful people pushing a agenda.

      1. psycheskinner profile image79
        psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        And being hateful and insulting is a great way to make threads more tolerant and life-affirming.

        1. 60
          Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          no this thread should have been ignored this person clearly was not wanting a real response. If I were to ask someone "why they are so stupid" I would not expect them to start listing off reasons. although it would be kind of funny to see that happen it's not likely lol.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Really? So, it is actually the atheists who are pushing an agenda? Atheists are forcing something down Christians throats? Do you actually think atheists would say a word if not for Christian bigotry and hatred?

    14. MrMaranatha profile image85
      MrMaranathaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Well Said Ranzi... But hey..  as the old adage says... Misery Loves Company right?
      They have NO God... Who allows them to do and say whatever they want... so long as it is contrary to an existent God... so they want to serve their own Ego God by making everyone else to worship their same Self Created Ego-Non-God.. With that,  they are  Pushy.. and they are far worse in pushing their rights of Disbelief than those who have a God and are comfortable in their Faith.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, that is certainly the atrocious behavior we've come to expect from so-called "loving" Christians.

      2. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Are you forgetting that Christians pushed their beliefs on innocent school children for years, and they still have not stopped.  Putting religious quotes on our money....making people swear on a stupid book in a public court....changing the words in the Pledge by inserting a silly religious phrase....trying to teach Intelligent Design in school....voting against equal rights.....protesting at abortion clinics....and funerals.....going door to door to spread the "good news".....thanking God at award ceremonies.....

        Comfortable in their beliefs?!  How absurd

    15. krivera08 profile image92
      krivera08posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and lack thereof. The problem begins when people want to place their own religious views onto the government, when you want certain laws to be enacted or ban because they go "against your religious beliefs". That's where the problem lies;when your only excuse is that your bible or any religious text, is the only excuse you have. This goes on everywhere. From the religious radical groups from the middle east who believe women should not get an education, to the many victims who are threatened and killed because all they want is independence from an oppressive religion they do not believe in, all they way to a community who can not marry the ones they love because an ancient texts tells them it's abomination.

      When religion is used to oppress,discriminate and spread hate, that's when atheists have to speak up and be vocal. If religious people don't want to be told about the flaws and lies within their own religion, then they shouldn't try to shove it down peoples throats.

    16. 0
      Deepes Mindposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The answer to your question is IN your question. "Atheists, what the HELL is your problem?". The issues that a lot of atheists have (Based on my conversations with some of them) isn't really God (which they don't believe in), nor is it really the belief in God (which some of them are more curious about than anything as to why people still believe). Their main problem is in their equally (and even more so) vitriolic Christian counterparts beating them over the head with scripture, calling them evil, satanic, ignorant, etc.., and telling them they're going to hell all the while proclaiming they're saved by grace according to the very bible that some of them don't even follow the principles for salvation of. Am I letting the atheists off the hook or their comments about believers being delusional, psychotic, hypocritical, etc...? Not at all. But the biggest issue is that by virtue of Christians professing belief in God and the bible, they are held to a higher standard of behavior as we are bound by that belief in what the bible says we are to treat others.. Unfortunately, given the history of the behavior of some of the more radical ones, the expectations of that standard has been greatly diminished except by those same vocal minority Christians that try to enforce their beliefs on unbelievers as well as believers that disagree with them. If more on both sides practice the "live and let live" philosophy, then there would be less conflict

    17. Donald Ogba profile image82
      Donald Ogbaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I think God mongers deserve every atheist to poke into their beliefs because over the years, they have denied others the peace of not believing. Am not an atheist, but its okay that what we believe in is challenged even if it affects kids. So I think they have not even gone far enough.

    18. SwordofManticorE profile image73
      SwordofManticorEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I just ignore them.

    19. qeyler profile image80
      qeylerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It    seems to me that for some people belief, relion, whatever one wishes to call it became a kind of "bargain"..  I will believe in you if you do ABC"  --- when ABC doesn't happen, in  a kind of childish  response the person will FIX  G-d  by becoming an atheist.   And not just someone who doesn't  believe  but a fanatical proselytising   fanatical  atheist.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This sounds like the typical make believe of the radical theists.  Did you actually read what you wrote - that atheists will reasonably conclude that God does not exist (because the ABC promised them didn't happen) and will thus FIX God by becoming atheist?

        While failure to maintain a bargain often results in anger (and perhaps the fanatical proselytizing you mention), it would be foolish in the extreme to think one could FIX a make believe god by any means at all, let alone proselytizing to others.

        1. Cgenaea profile image58
          Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Well what about "labeling" the "make-believe" a murderous, childish,  rape okay-er, and starving children neglecter??? By the way, are you doing enough for your children and the poor??? I think someone forgot to ask you.

          1. A Troubled Man profile image61
            A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Notice that Cgenaea is compelled to detract from the question at hand so that she doesn't have to explain anything.

            1. Cgenaea profile image58
              Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              ...Notice cherry-picking?  wink

              1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                So you actually even understand the term?

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The question remains, did she learn this technique from Beth or did Beth learn it from her?

          2. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            All too often the proper label for such a person is "Christian", or "Believer". 

            Not at all sure I'm catching the connection between labeling someone and the idea that anyone with even half a brain would decide to "FIX" an imaginary creature by becoming atheist.  Can you elucidate that connection, please?

            Yep - I do enough for my children and the poor.  Do you?  And can you explain that connection as well?

            1. Cgenaea profile image58
              Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Hmm, let's see... the tooth-fairy is a whore!!! Lmao!! felt like Tourette's. Does it feel like that when you label a figment?
              No connection with the last question;  it was asked of me in such a way... and since we speak often, I just wondered about you. No one else seemed concerned about your children and poor people around you.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You know, if you have a problem with something I said, it should likely be me you address.

                Jumping on somebody who didn't say anything because you are pissy about someone else saying something is passive-aggressive at best... bullying and cowardice at worst.

                1. Cgenaea profile image58
                  Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't have a "problem" with anything that occurs here. I simply got the urge to concern myself with the goings-on of my fellow poster since you know... we do that.  I figured that you must've forgotten to ask him. Wanna spread the love too. smile

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Ah, but he wasn't involved in the conversation about neglect.

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                No, it doesn't feel like Tourette's when I label a figment, perhaps because I don't label figments as anything other than a figment.  I'll leave that to the theists, labeling their many gods with all the things they would like to see in themselves.

                I see - no connection but a new topic to discuss.  If you really want to discuss my children (I won't, in a public forum, except to say they're great kids) or the poor in Idaho you should probably start a new thread.

      2. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It's not that the bargain makes one angry and bitter, it's an indication that no one is there. One doesn't become angry with God, one understands that there is no God.

      3. getitrite profile image79
        getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The discontent is not against God, but rather against people who tell these lies to people.  It is lyars who should be FIXED.....there are no Gods to FIX.  If someone tried to sell you some land that didn't exist, would you be angry at the land(that doesn't exist)or the person that tried to trick you into buying it?

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 3 years ago

    I think you went a little far with the title. Not all atheists have the problem you refer to. Most atheists don't. The ones who frequent hub pages in the manner you find irritating simply appear to enjoy it. I doubt it goes deeper. If it does, it isn't apparent in their arguments.

  3. tillsontitan profile image90
    tillsontitanposted 3 years ago

    I don't know the "history" of this question for this forum but I do know we should accept each other as we are and that includes religion.  I do not  have to live the atheist's life and he doesn't have to live mine.  Let him have his beliefs or non-beliefs, and I will have mine.  Live and let live.  Love one another, even the atheist wink

    1. Ranzi profile image85
      Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you. Wisest answer so far smile

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Too bad you aren't listening to the wisdom... eh?

        1. Ranzi profile image85
          Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks smile I must give you an award 'wisest psychic'

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago

    I have been suspecting bad religious upbringing which was forced upon them, (too many raps on the knuckles.) They are eternally rebelling and using this platform to do so. (If they are not being paid to bring down America.)
    In God We Trust!

    1. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You, smugly, say that as if that is not a valid reason to despise religion.  I think it shows dignity to fight back against a tyrant, whose soul purpose is to take control of my mind, and cause me to act as a child for my entire life....by attempting to force me to believe in a silly fairy tale.  That's like the slaves, going back to the plantation, after having the means to be free.


      If Christians really trusted in God, they wouldn't look both ways when they crossed the street....but they always do.  I wonder why?

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Christians get hit by cars too. lol
        Maybe we trust that God will save our soul if they get smashed by a semi?

        1. getitrite profile image79
          getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, basically, you are saved from everything.  You can't lose.  If at anytime you are killed, you go to live with Jesus....which is the ultimate goal of every denomination that I have been exposed to.   So why be careful......at all?  Just trust God.  This life doesn't matter anyhow.  Paradise is in the next life.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Dude, that sounds awesome.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              ahhh... thanks Beth. Now we can get pack to sailing in our ships without a care in the world.  Look at that flock of pelicans!
              What a Beautiful day!

            2. getitrite profile image79
              getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Actually I'm glad it's not true, because although you think you would want to go live eternity with a monster like God, you really couldn't bare to be in the presence of someone that psychotic.  Remember...He once drowned the entire planet, because He failed to create GOOD people.  Poor defenseless humans paid dearly for His mistakes. Same with Adam and Eve.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I spose thats one way to spin it.

          2. 60
            Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Is it a bad thing to believe that there is something better then this world? Also from personal experience I have been hit by cars twice while jogging and told I would never walk normal again, but I am and I to this day still run 10 miles a week.so while you may say it is just luck I say maybe their is a higher power watching over us. Are we as humans really so cocky as to believe we are the greatest thing to ever live or exist in the universe?

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Does it negatively affect you or your actions?  Do you teach small children that a myth is true?  Do you try to force others to believe OR to follow the edicts/morals of your personal god? 

              If your answer is "yes" to any of those questions then it is a bad thing.

              That's nice that you were hit by cars and can still walk, but it is no reason to think a god reached down and touched such an insignificant speck as a human being.  Are you really so cocky as to believe that you are important enough to draw a gods attention?

              1. 60
                Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Actually If I believed in a God I would say yes because as Christians I would that he created me as most religions do. As a artist I don't allow my art to be destroyed and if starts to become withered I refurbish giving it its beauty back so yeah, I would believe that. That's not cocky. Nor do I push any view I hold on anyone, my rights end where another persons begin.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  We are God's artwork then?  That's even more cocky and egocentric than thinking we're important enough to pay attention to!

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Interesting post...

              When did any Atheist ever say we are the greatest thing to ever live or exist in the universe? I've never seen such a claim as usually Atheists are the ones saying that humans are no better or no worse than any other animal.

              You've been hit by cars twice and you think Gods looking out for you? I've been cycling and jogging my entire life and never been struck by a car. Dumb luck I guess.

              1. 60
                Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                It could be dumb luck. I'm not trying to argue but when my leg goes from being a mangled mesh of bone and muscle to being perfect as far as a Dr. can see, then I am inclined to believe a little more then luck played a part whether it be magic, God, or me being a super human lol.

                I am not saying that you have to agree with what im saying bc honestly sometimes I wonder if there is a "God " with all that's going on in the world and all that has happened but it is not my place to say that religion is fake, bc I have no proof that its not either.

                All I am saying is listen hear and if someone is preaching then by all means tell them to shove it because I hate bible thumpers too. religion is a choice no one should feel forced into it. Or feel like they have been attacked for not being religious.

            3. getitrite profile image79
              getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              No it's not a bad thing at all.



              You can say that all you want, however, until you present some proof, that's merely wishful thinking, and selfish.  Why is the higher power not watching over the poor starving children in Africa, and the children in cancer wards?  They are dying everyday.   And there were two bicyclist killed here last week, when they were hit by a car..  They will never walk again.  Where was this higher power?  I guess He only intervenes in your life. 


              This is a straw man fallacy, as no one here has implied any such thing.

              1. 60
                Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I do not know. My grandmother and my uncle both died of cancer. My niece died before she was 2 from meningitis and my brother and his friend were killed by a drunk driver when I was 15. So I know how it feels to question a faith over loss and believe for many years I did but something just changed and that's all I am saying I feel we should respect everyone's personal opinion as long as they are sharing it peacefully and not cramming down our throats. Everyone of the billions of people on the planet have experienced circumstances that brought them to the ideals they now hold,  I do not believe in a higher power because of my leg, I believe because of my life.  and thank you for not responding rudely

                1. getitrite profile image79
                  getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Like anyone else, I would like to live with the security of knowing that there is something that cares about me, and that I am not just here to be the victim of randomness, however, there is absolutely no evidence for such a reality.  I am not going to accept anything from the perspective of a whim or wishful thinking.  That, to me, offers no fulfillment.  But I do understand that some people are wired to circumvent logic, and embrace illogical superstitions, to gain a false sense of security, as any security will do....whether real or made up.

                  1. 60
                    Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    That's fine, religion is a outlandish thought, it leaves many questions the one most asked to me by many friends is where did these gods come from if they are real. a question that I myself can not answer. At the same time that is the definition of faith to most religious people faith is believing without the proof of seeing.
                    I am truly sorry for the action of any believer that has treated you wrongly for your beliefs. They are not acting as their god instructed he actually says not to judge for all have sinned and are not worthy of him and that anyone who condemns another person to hell will join them. So I am sorry for their ignorance of their own religion and hope that you can accept those who are not so vile.

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  So your God watches while you get hit by cars twice, fixes up your mangled legs, but is not watching out for your grandmother, uncle, niece, brother or his friend. So you are another person claiming miracles, I'd like to see the evidence.

                  1. 60
                    Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    yes if that's what you get from what I have said.

                  2. 0
                    Emile Rposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe it's as simple as being thankful, while understanding life makes no sense. It sure beats bitter asinine attacks because life stinks.

                3. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh my goodness, you've been thru hell. Im so sorry.

                  1. 60
                    Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    there is no need to be sorry it has been years and my family and I are strong. As sad as it was to lose them everyone must die eventually, and it allowed me to have a open mind.

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hmm.  Rebelling, are they?  Rebelling against what?

      You asked earlier for a quote as to being browbeaten, well here is your answer.  The rebelling atheists are rebelling against the browbeating from the theists, who claim the atheists are forever rebelling.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe it's time we all take a nap. smile

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          No.  It's almost my bedtime - if I take a nap I'll be up all night.

          Besides, I need to recuperate from all the browbeating. smile

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I've heard it takes almost as much physical effort as bible-thumping.

            Can I get you a drink?

            Or are you going to call me names again, you know like you have... well like you have never done.

            But I know you're thinking it... you big atheist bully you.

  5. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago

    I've got to say that Christians irritate me much more than atheists do. As a Christian, all atheists can do is argue with me. Christians can make me embarrassed for my faith and angry that their behavior is driving people away from Christ in droves.

    As far as the vitriol here on the forums, I have to say I find the Atheists, in general, far more pleasant to converse with. If anyone on these forums ever made me deny Christ, it wouldn't be them, it would be my utter humiliation at being put in the same group as the "persecuted" Christians...

    Good thing I'm comfortable in my faith, a new convert or someone considering the faith would likely run screaming from many of the representatives of the faith on these boards.

  6. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago

    And as a side note to my post...

    I would just like to say how impressed I am by the behavior of my sisters in Christ in this thread.

    I'm simply waiting for "I know you are but what am I?" to wrap it up.

    You all are truly full of the spirit of Christ... who argued on forum boards all the time...and spent so much time trying to prove he was right by flinging insults at those who didn't believe in him.

    Please, do continue.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome to our bash, Melissa! Don't stand on the sidelines or anything... right when the pelicans are flying by... some seagulls too. 
      And look into the distance...
      Shadows take form
      Ships on the horizon,
      A new day is born...

      Why did he call me Mrs. Pot?

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I'm going to side with the atheists here. Only because they aren't specifically acting in a way contrary to everything they say they value.

        Otherwise, both sides are behaving exactly like the other side... Christians are just violating the lessons in the Bible to do it... Since the atheists aren't held to those lessons, they aren't violating any of their so called personal ethics.

        I would assume the Mrs. Pot had to do with pot vs. kettle. Look it up.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Okay. Thank you for being the referee. I almost shot someone with a cloud of digital spittle!

    2. Tbland profile image61
      Tblandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yet, you are here MelissaBarrett...flinging mud at your so called "Sisters in Christ" and aiding the atheist argument about a divided faith. I see their position and purpose, I understand their unbelief and anger. But you?! What's your purpose? You said  "You all are truly full of the spirit of Christ... who argued on forum boards all the time...and spent so much time trying to prove he was right by flinging insults at those who didn't believe in him".
        But your spending time here...again, what's your purpose?    What is the "Spirit of Christ' showing or saying to you about what you're doing in this arena?

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I have no idea what the spirit of Christ is saying, and neither does anyone else in this thread.

        I think though, that he might be happy that I'm not ruining his name and chasing people away from the faith by arsing myself in his name. I can do just fine arsing myself in my own name. At least by admitting that my own opinions are mine, instead of claiming some divine inspiration from Christ... it's not him I am shaming if I DO arse myself.

        I also think he would be happy to know that I am not some bleating sheep going along with those who are screaming loudest and that, to some extent, I AM my brother's keeper.  No one should be screaming louder about the horrible zealous, rude, self-righteous, judgmental, self-serving, embarrassing, ignorant behavior of some Christians than other Christians themselves. If none of them have backbone enough to do it, or WORSE if none of them believe there is anything wrong with it... then I thank God that at least the atheists are. In this, at least, I believe they are doing more good than the Christians in serving the spirit of Christ.

        Any other questions?

        1. Cgenaea profile image58
          Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Is it true??? You are really Christian??? Hmmm.we know a tree by its fruit.  You Christian for real???

          1. JMcFarland profile image92
            JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Aren't Christians supposed to exhort each other?  Or does that only work when you are the one doing the exhorting?   What do you think your fruit says about you?

            1. Cgenaea profile image58
              Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I will let the spirit of God speak for me... can you hear him??? smile Christians are not to exhort rudeness and vile vomiting lips. The things being said cut even me and I haven't even been on the receiving end.

              1. JMcFarland profile image92
                JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Nope.   When I read your posts,  I just hear you claiming to be spirit filled wanting to be right without The knowledge to back it up.

                If you are speaking from the spirit and not just from yourself, ask the spirit what it would take for me to believe again.   It's not a test.   Your God wants everyone to follow him.  I don't even know the answer to that question, but if your God knows everything, he does.

                1. Cgenaea profile image58
                  Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Naturally speaking;  the right to be gay without having to feel the fear or conviction of being "wrong"
                  Biblically,  all you have to do is say yes. "Believing" I don't believe is your issue. Remember God does not do Vaudeville.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image92
                    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    what are you talking about?  You think I'm an atheist and "reject" god because I'm gay?  What are you smoking?  Haven't you listened to anything I've ever said to you?  THAT'S what the "spirit" told you?  It sounds like it's what you told yourself.  No spirit needed or required at all.  Just your own prejudice.

                2. Cgenaea profile image58
                  Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  And you think too much of book knowledge.  Lean not unto your own understanding... God is spirit.  ONLY spirit can discern spirit.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image92
                    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm talking about the book of "knowledge" that you adhere to.  I actually know it.  You just read it, interpret it the way that you want to and claim absolute knowledge of its "truth".  Yet you know nothing of its history, its origins or its makeup.  That's called willful ignorance.

              2. psycheskinner profile image79
                psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                If believing in Christ makes someone this negative and insulting, I can do without it.

                1. Cgenaea profile image58
                  Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Christ is not negative or insulting. Those who follow are not either.
                  However wrong cannot go unanswered.  Injustice,  judgment,  insult and selfishness is running rampant. Even from those who say they are faithful. You may choose as you wish.

                  1. psycheskinner profile image79
                    psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I was not commenting on Christ but on you, and yes your comments about some people here have been very negative and kind of scary.  I have read the Bible and I don't see you acting at all like Christ.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              When a tree stops taking sunlight, it dies. If a person refuses to learn, doesn't want to learn, the same thing happens.

              You can't know that kind of Christian by their fruits. A dead tree doesn't make any.

              1. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Are you claiming to be one who follows Christ? A dead tree does not produce any fruit but the fruit that remains is all bruised and mushy; ugly and quite nasty. Yes???
                Christians learn. But they have guidelines.  Boundaries. God through Jesus has the final say.

      2. Cgenaea profile image58
        Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I simply love your style. Beautifully put; 'm darn near floored.

  7. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Are we having fun yet? It's a shame we can't talk about the things we have in common every once in a while. You know, on the other non-spiritual threads... you don't know who is a person of faith and who is not, for the most part. We're just ppl who talk about life. It's nice to relate to your peers. I wish we could do more of that sometimes.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It too tempting to be more than we are or less than we are on line. It will never be as you have described... its the nature of the beast.
      Of course, only you and I represent ourselves honestly, Beth...
      And I'm not so sure about you...
      (Joking, joking...  smile )

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That would be fine, however in your mind, you have already decided there are those who indeed have things in common with you, but since they don't share your beliefs, they are evil, you must hate them and they will burn in hell.

      Notice how it is YOU who makes that distinction, which is the real shame of talking about things we have in common?

  8. Ranzi profile image85
    Ranziposted 3 years ago

    Atheists chill out seriously - these are the words you are using to describe people with faith
    -delusion
    -dishonesty.
    -bigotry
    - Evil
    THIS IS PURE BULLYING

    This forum was not created to prove religion exists or not, but rather why the disrespect and taking pride in trying to take away people's beliefs that brings them hope and peace of mind? Although I'm not a believer of a particular God myself,. I find your insults rude and disrespectful. And if a Christian said the same things to you, I would tell them the same thing?

    This is what I'm talking about, you do have a HUGE problem.  Each to their own (same goes for those annoying Christians calling out on microphones and threatening hell 

    Atheists now days  seem to be more obsessed with God than the actual believers of God, as you spend your days and lives in forums talking about him.

    STOP TRYING TO PROVE SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT TO SOMEONE THAT MAKES THEM HAPPY. Whether you believe it's real or not. This goes both ways, for Christians and atheists. However I have noticed there's a huge atheists movement out there, with many fanatics going out of their way trying to prove God doesn't exist and calling Jesus is Evil. At my sisters Uni there's about a hundred of them handing out leaflets, posting on walls 'your God doesnt exists" and speaking on microphones. What are they getting out of trying to shatter peoples faith?

    Why are you people so disrespectful about a man who was trying to teach about love and forgiveness? How is Jesus evil btw?
    May I ask all of you one question? What is so bad or evil about the following? (I'm not trying to preach to you about Christianity as I can't call myself a Christian, but I respect Jesus the same way people would respect Buddha, as a great philosopher and guru)

    This is for the people who keep calling Jesus evil -WHAT IS SO EVIL ABOUT THE FOLLOWING?
    -Love each other
    -Love your enemies
    -let him who is without sin cast the first stone
    -Forgive one another
    -Judge not, and you not be judged
    -Forgiveness

    1. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The fact that it comes from the same book that says:

      - Racism is not only okay, but is mandatory
      - Women are property and should always be submissive to all men
      - Rapists must not be punished, but instead get to marry the girl they rape (unless the girl is already married, in which case the rapist pays her father, like, fifty bucks and the girl is sentenced to death)
      - Slavery is absolutely essential and morally right, so if you're not a Hebrew, you'd better learn to like shackles
      - Disobedient children, people who wear clothing made of multiple fabrics, and men who shave their beards are just a handful of people God says must be brought to the town square and killed ASAP
      - Thou shalt not kill...unless they don't believe in God, in which case you put a cap in their ass before they breed and/or convert you

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You should read the *entire Bible and have someone who has studied it extensively explain the things you don't understand.

        1. Zelkiiro profile image85
          Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Please, point out something I posted that is not, in fact, in the Bible.

          I'll be waiting. And then I'll slap you in the face with the verse that proves you wrong.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            OH MY WORD! This is going to take so much time.
            Ok Z-man... it's almost 9, I have to tuck the kids in, I haven't seen my husband all day and we have our share of issues to work on... but I will begin and get as far as I can. smile

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          That is exactly what JM has been doing for you.

        3. DoubleScorpion profile image85
          DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Beth,

          I have read the bible multiple times. I hold a PHD in Biblical Studies and I must point out...For the most part...It is the Atheist who understands the bible correctly, based on what is taught in schools, and the Christian who has the problem with the understanding.

          And I am not picking or anything to that nature, I am just pointing out my observations.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Good to see you DS.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You as well Melissa. I have been very busy as of late. I see you are still fighting the good fight. smile

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You know... the life of a liberal Christian.

                I come here because I can't yell at my children or husband. So it's this or climb a clock tower.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I hear ya!

                  It will never cease to amaze me how sometimes it is the simplest things in life that can bring about peace and serenity to an otherwise hectic day.

                2. 60
                  HundredDollarBillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you an undercover atheist?

          2. Cgenaea profile image58
            Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Reading the bible muktiple times as well as a doctorate in the study of it implies that you read and fully understand the admonition to "lean not unto thine own understanding, but in ALL thy ways acknowledge him and he will direct thy path"??? Did he direct your studies? My bet is no. You???

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              And it would seem to me that you are making assumptions. Or you have read my profile and do not believe the same as I do. Either way. I understand completely what that means. I am curious as to if you understand " judge not less ye be judged. By the same measure that you judge, you shall also be judged"...Just to clear this up...If you are in anyway pointing out flaws in others, you will be held accountable to that same standard by God himself. So since we are under grace in todays time, we can rest assured that forgiveness for our own human errors can be readily forgiven in the simplicity of asking.

              Christians are not to judge, they are to spread the Good News of the Kingdom of God (Straight from Jesus himself)...Last time I check, men are not the ones to hold another man accountable for his/her spiritual well-being, God takes care of that...Spreading the Good News does not include judging, condemning or assuming that another is not following God and is doomed to Hell...

              And on a last note...Did God direct the writing of the bible? If so, then why did it need to be edited and revised by other men (assumed also directed by God) and why is there conflicting sections? Also...Just to note...Recent studies show that the New Testament was written around the early to mid-second (125-150 C.E.)century, with the exception of some of Paul's letters which were written between 56 and 64 C.E. give or take a few years. Also why is there Two different creation stories in the first two chapters of Genesis? Could it be because it wasn't written down until 1000-500 B.C.E. and was written by two different Schools of Thought...Yep...That would be the reason...Not one single author...but a compilation of writing from Multiple Jewish Schools of Theological thought.

              And just a note...Biblical Studies and Theology are two different things. One deals with the text itself and the other deals with the beliefs based on the text

              1. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Judgment is Gods alone. Here on Hubpages, we cannot see the behaviors of the persons on the other end. Until things get crazy. We may only go by what is typed. If you tell me that you have no faith in God; the chances are, biblically,  that you have no place in heaven or the kingdom of God. Is that judgment or regurgitation? It is called judgment to thwart feelings of conviction.  Somewhat a defensive stance. It takes the spotlight that God is shining internally and throws it onto the reporter in an attempt to not feel as convicted. That tactic is ages old, I'm sure smile

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Interestingly enough. I have not once said that I have no faith in God..nor have I stated my personal believes in anyway in this thread.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, I know. That part of the discussion was a simple scenario.  It responded to your previous post regarding judgment. Remember??? In my scenario,  it is not judgment.  No judgment necessary.  You ( my scenario being of course) actually told me that he/she does not believe.  In the bible, that person has consequences. And I didn't make those up. It is written.  We discuss the bible. We say what IT says.

              2. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah I know. Study of the bible without God is simply study. You cannot understand the bible without the mind of Christ. You may not live its pages without faith. You may not come to know God without faith that he is.
                The bible contains the pertinent information.  God saw to that.  He knows that those who want him will have him or spend their lives trying to. The people who wrote the bible are authentic scribes. The info rejected from the pages was not absolutely necessary.  We know all we need to know to decide yea or nay. The squabble over who wrote/translated the bible is simply more deviation from scripture; and a way to justify indecisiveness.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  And the Majority of those who study the bible or make these type of "decisions" are Christians....The Atheist doesn't decide what is or isn't contained in the bible or any of the such. They just ask for clarification for bible verses and the meaning. Sadly, very few Christians can offer this service.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Bible knowing "Christian" here. What may I help you to understand more clearly?  Now dont go asking me about no edited versions left out; I read, and understand what actually made it into the final edition.  So, no one biblical studies Phd holder is capable of understanding it better. (Not even two wink ) I put my heart into it. My HEAD is totally incapable. You need God's head.
                    Go!

                2. 60
                  HundredDollarBillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Why do you preach so much

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    How can you say I preach? I merely tell what I know. I fully explain as much as possible to be clearly understood. The pettiness of the posters can be confusing.

          3. bBerean profile image61
            bBereanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            1 Corinthians 2:13-15  "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

            Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

            1. Cgenaea profile image58
              Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Not judgment.  Scripture.  Good ones too!!! We must know what words go where.

            2. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Man receives his wisdom from God. If this verse is to be taken completely at face value, then there is no need for seminaries or ministers/priests nor the Christian to spread the word as the Holy Spirit will guide all of Mankind in all matters of religious beliefs

              1. bBerean profile image61
                bBereanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Your close.  No need for seminaries or salaried clergy.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  And Tithe to the Church?

                  1. bBerean profile image61
                    bBereanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    2 Cor 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

                    I suspect, based on the math of what is accomplished, that most of those I fellowship with give much more than a "tithe", but do so as we feel led to, not under command for some percent.

              2. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Wrong again.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Do tell how I am wrong...I am curious...smile

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Seminaries, priests and the like are only capable of providing knowledge.  Not wisdom.  Only God msy provide the wisdom it takes to understand his word. Wisdom and knowledge are kinds different.

                2. JMcFarland profile image92
                  JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  here's a question for you.

                  You say that only those that believe can truly understand the scripture, correct?

                  The bible is one of the most widely published and distributed books on earth.  Missionaries hand them out when they don't have the time or capability to preach or mentor.  What are these people supposed to do with those bibles if not read them?  How are they supposed to come to believe based on the bible if they can't understand it unless they believe already?  How are you supposed to believe something before knowing or understanding it when you can't know or understand it until you believe it?

                  are you really saying that you know, understand and interpret the bible just as well as people who have actually spent their lives studying it in the original languages, taking college classes and writing research papers on it?  Does that not seem boastful or arrogant to you?

                  From our previous interactions, I've often pointed out bible verses to you that you were unaware of and had to go check them.  Then you told me what they were SUPPOSED to mean, as opposed to what they actually said - even in comparison to the original languages which you neither read or understand.  Yet other Christians disagree with your interpretations. Do you claim that you trump believers and non-believers alike and you, alone, are correct?

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                    DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Some very interesting points JM...I am curious to the answers you receive.

                  2. Zelkiiro profile image85
                    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Penn Jillette said it best:

                    "Reading the Bible is the fast track to atheism. Reading the Bible means starting at 'In the beginning...' and throwing it down with disgust at '...the grace of the lord Jesus be with all. Amen.' I'm sure there are lots of religious people who've read the Bible from start to finish and kept their faith, but in my self-selected sample, all the people I know who have done that are atheists."

                    "Take some time and put the Bible on your summer reading list. Try and stick with it cover to cover. Not because it teaches history; we've shown you it doesn't. Read it because you'll see for yourself what the Bible is all about. It sure isn't great literature. If it were published as fiction, no reviewer would give it a passing grade. There are some vivid scenes and some quotable phrases, but there's no plot, no structure, there's a tremendous amount of filler, and the characters are painfully one-dimensional. Whatever you do, don't read the Bible for a moral code: it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition, and murder. Read it because: we need more atheists — and nothin' will get you there faster than readin' the damn Bible."

                  3. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah meat!!!
                    Ummm... how can you ask of God if you first do not believe that he is (present)? He gives liberally to all who only ask. And he doesn't upbraid. smile remember?  You have to have faith before you ask. How ddoes this sound? God I know you don't exist,  but teach me your ways. ?
                    Blessed are they who believe without seeing.  Do you know that this paragraph is all taken from scripture?
                    Years of schooling don't mean nothing.  It just means that you took your brain to a book. A craxy old book that you have a sneaking suspicion... how can you learn anything of him? That is scripture too.
                    Again, you may spend a lifetime in bible college and NEVER EVER "get" it. It takes the mind of Christ.  Not cram sessions to pinpoint each assumed inconsistence. The spirit ties it together.

      2. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You must be talking about the old testiment which christians use for historical purpose

        1. JMcFarland profile image92
          JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          without the Old Testament, there is no need for the arrival of Jesus Christ.  Either the Bible is all true (and therefore these passages are valid) or Jesus just appeared out of nowhere with no cause or need.  Without the fall in the garden of eden, salvation was unnecessary. 

          Additionally, a lot of Christians like to pick and choose.  For example, they'll use the Old Testament to condemn homosexuals, but IGNORE completely the other verses about stoning disobedient children because they don't like it.  Which is it?

        2. getitrite profile image79
          getitriteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yep...automated defen?....what was that word?  So predictable.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yep! Automated defenses: Shot in clouds of digital spittle from turrets atop rhetorical fortresses. Ah, the power of words.

      3. 60
        Fuginagasakiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        please send me the scriptures that say these things bc while studying Christianity I never came across them and also yeah I'm pretty sure that almost every CULTURE has used slaves at some point in the last umpteen thousand years. Please stop giving atheist a bad name with your un-thought out responses

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      They say the bible cannot be trusted to have even been recorded accurately or that Jesus existed at all. They would rather believe that God and metaphysics cannot be proven. Period. They say that ethics and morals come from common sense and in fact are part of human nature, which evolved through survival of the fittest. They laugh at anyone who would believe in "fairy tales." The real question is why do we take them seriously and put up our automatic defenses as Zelkirro has just explained to me?  They can't believe in God because they do not use the part of the brain which requires imagination. They seem to be very left brained. They truly believe that mankind is naturally good and that no one needs to be told by anyone to believe anything one way or the other. They believe in thinking for themselves and not imagining stuff. Looks like they also see a lot of unacceptable stuff in the OT.

      1. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Simple, we are presenting facts and you are denying or rejecting them in favor of your holy book.



        That is a very good statement showing the dishonesty the OP is complaining about. Many Atheists can imagine more than you. And, if you say you don't ever think for yourself, that would be dishonest, too.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          This response reveals a good example of an ever ready, up and running automatic defense system. I was just stating facts. Not opinions or criticisms. Many atheists do not feel comfortable imagining a god. They think it's like cheating. 
          For others, they like to imagine a god as the first step to discovering the real essence of God.

    3. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      These are the words used by believers to describe those who don't share their beliefs...

      - evil
      - followers of Satan
      - immoral
      - unethical
      - haters
      - godless
      - fools
      - demons
      - anti-Christ
      - intolerant
      - arrogant

      ... the list goes on an on.

      http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/files/2011/09/anti-atheist-poster.jpg



      Then, why aren't you telling them that? Atheists would never say a word if it were not for believers saying these things about them in the first place.



      Let me get this straight, you're defending those who use those words against atheists because it makes them happy?

    4. DoubleScorpion profile image85
      DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this


      Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but with a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy. (Matthew 10:34-37)
      Do you think I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Luke 12:51-53)
      If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)
      ...a Canaanite woman ...came out and cried, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon. But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." And he answered, "It is not fair to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." (Matthew 15:23)


      Just a few passages that show another side...

      1. Cgenaea profile image58
        Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The bible was written for the children of God. It is a spiritual book. It is NOT for use by those who fo not care to take it seriously.  The mind of man works against the mind of Christ. The "fight" is "God mindedness vs no God whatsoever.  This "fight" precisely.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
          DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I take the bible very serious. And since the bible states that Christ is the head of man and the head is where the mind is located...How is not the mind of man not also the mind of Christ?

          1. Cgenaea profile image58
            Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Ok now you're scaring me. We each think differently. We all have a different mind. (Never thought I'd ever have to explain that to a Doctor). However God's mind is the one that we are to take on and conform to. So NO, we have our own minds. Until we deny self and allow God to do our thinking for us.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
              DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              So what you are saying... is that the Christian person, since they are under God's guidance, all think alike when it comes to God? They should as Christ is the Head of the believer.

              Of course all humans don't think alike...I don't think that...And you are not explaining anything to me...I am asking and making comments that are asking you to clarify your statements...

              And since God's mind and understanding is beyond the Human one we can never begin to reach his mind or understanding. We can only do our best and seek forgiveness for our flaws.

              Your last comment though worries me just a bit and shows why this thread even exists. To many people are completely giving up their own ability to think and freely allow themselves to be led to what they are told is God's plan via the Church or their own limited understanding of the Bible itself. Every single Christian should take a few classes on the bible and their belief system so they know how to better answer questions/ or debate the atheist. Because you can trust that the Atheist knows it.

              1. Cgenaea profile image58
                Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yes!!! Not even many "Christians" understand that God only has one mind. One way to truth and life. God decides who "has it" and who does not. We can see often times based upon certain things like declaring no faith in God.

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image85
                  DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  God decides who has it and who don't? So we humans don't have freewill to choose?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image58
                    Cgenaeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You are clever... Let me break it down for you.
                    God knows who accepts and has faith in him based upon what we have ALREADY decided.  Also, for further clarification;  he KNOWS who will and who will not accept him. He does not force your decision.  He simply knows if you are hot or cold.

  9. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    oooh, this is kind of a short cut, but that helps me if youre actually open to different ideas about the Bible.

    Soooo... if you would like to post the verse(s) that say that racism is mandatory, I will address those. Until then, please read these verses that will hopefully at least give you pause when assuming God is a racist.

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/racism

  10. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Women were considered property. That is not uncommon even today... ask OJ Simpson.
    Please actually read all of this excerpt instead of just a sentence.

    EPH 5
    21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

    22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No, it is not common today, that is not true, more dishonesty from you.

  11. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Z Writes:
    "Rapists must not be punished, but instead get to marry the girl they rape (unless the girl is already married, in which case the rapist pays her father, like, fifty bucks and the girl is sentenced to death)"
    Duet.
    28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

    So that's the verse. Deuteronomy is part of the law of their time. This verse is simply saying, like any law book... if this act is committed, this action will be taken against the offender.

    So if a man raped a woman in their time and was caught, according to the law, he would pay her father for the crime... maybe this had to do with dowries? And he would marry her and never divorce her for he violated her. Now a days, we would like to see him castrated, but of course he would probably just serve a few years in a reasonably comfortable cell, working out and making a tiny sum of money until his release date. In case you hadn't noticed, this world is not kind to women. If you want to know how God feels about women, read the verses I posted on my last two posts concerning your first two questions. Are you still with me?

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, your God treats women very badly, that is exactly what those verse say. We, in our secular society today, do not treat women that way. That is the law of men, not Gods.

  12. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Zman writes"- Slavery is absolutely essential and morally right, so if you're not a Hebrew, you'd better learn to like shackles"

    There are tons of verses telling both slaves how to serve whilst in their circumstance and masters how to treat the slaves whilst in their circumstance... however your statement is not supported that I have ever seen. Maybe you could give me the verse? Can we stop there for a bit so I can pee and get the kids to bed? smile

    1. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this
      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, I understand. They had laws in their land concerning how they were to treat their slaves... probably on how they should pay taxes... etc. etc. They had laws for everything. Thank God, slavery is not legal anymore. If you noticed... they were talking about Hebrew slaves by name in some of those verses... you do recall God split the ocean to set the Hebrew slaves free?

        1. Zelkiiro profile image85
          Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Uhhhh...no?

          Given the context of the story, I'm fairly certain the Sea of Reeds wasn't "the ocean." Likely, it was a swampland north of the Gulf of Suez or a lagoon in the Sinai Peninsula.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Ex 13
            21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the Lord drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, 22 and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

            23 The Egyptians pursued them, and all Pharaoh’s horses and chariots and horsemen followed them into the sea. 24 During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion. 25 He jammed[d] the wheels of their chariots so that they had difficulty driving. And the Egyptians said, “Let’s get away from the Israelites! The Lord is fighting for them against Egypt.”


            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea

            1. JMcFarland profile image92
              JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              you know, don't you, that there is no evidence whatsoever that Hebrews migrated en masse from Egypt where they were held as slaves and that even several jews deny that this ever historically happened, right?

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-ros … 08123.html

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I hold the Bible in higher esteem than the Huffington post.


                One example:
                Allegations of supporting pseudo-science[edit source]
                The Huffington Post has been criticized by several science bloggers, as well as online news sources, for including articles by supporters of alternative medicine and anti-vaccine activists and for allegedly "censoring" rebuttals written by science bloggers before publishing them.[52][53][54][55]
                Steven Novella, president of the New England Skeptical Society, criticized The Huffington Post for allowing homeopathy proponent Dana Ullman to have a blog there:
                Dana Ullman, a notorious homeopathy apologist, actually has a regular blog over at HuffPo. For those of us who follow such things, the start of his blog there marked the point of no return for the Huffington Post – clearly the editors had decided to go the path of Saruman and "abandon reason for madness." They gave up any pretense of caring about scientific integrity and became a rag of pseudoscience.[56]

                1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                  Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I hold Green Eggs & Ham in higher esteem than the Bible.

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this
                2. JMcFarland profile image92
                  JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  yes, and the post linked to many other journals of more repute that you may find more interesting - if you bothered to even read it.  The fact that the Exodus is not historical has been studied and accepted for CENTURIES.  The fact that you, as a Christian, still claim it as absolutely true when the people that it supposedly actually happened to don't speaks volumes.  Or there' even a book written by two Jewish scholars:  The Bible Unearthed – Neil Asher Silberman & Israel Finkelstein

                  In addition, the Exodus (if it happened) and the resulting Passover is one of the more immoral, unjust and horrific actions of your god in the entire biblical text.  First, god allows his people to be enslaved because he's punishing them.  Then, he commands Moses to free them - and god himself hardens Pharaoh's heart.  Several times, Pharaoh was convinced to let the Jews go - and god hardened his heart so that he wouldn't - all so god could justify torturing and killing more Egyptians.  It sounds like a petulant, angry child torturing an ant under a magnifying glass, pretending to let it escape over and over again just so it can burn again.  After all that, right before god commits mass genocide of all of the first born of Egypt, he has the Israelites slaughter lambs and smear the blood on the doors of their homes - so this all-powerful, all-knowing deity would recognize his own people and remember not to kill them.  And Christians think this story is wonderful and miraculous.  Amazing.  Then, to top it all of, when an understandably furious Pharaoh pursues the retreating Jews, god smashes him with an ocean (or, you know, a small lake) and kills him and the entire army for a situation that god himself initiated and caused.

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    There are a few ppl whose posts I do not read any more. Im sorry.
                    As I told you, I shook the dust from my shoes. I wont argue for the sake of arguing, but Im happy to have discussions with ppl who are not haters of God disguised as non believers.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Why would thank God, it is your God who allows slavery, it was men who decided it is not legal anymore. You should be thanking our secular societies for that.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      In their circumstance? That circumstance happens to be slavery, which your holy book does not outright prohibit. Your God actually allows people to own other people. Again, in today's society, the law of men prohibit slavery.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Slavery has not been abolished!   The legalistic definition has been changed.   BUT ...
        drug addicts are slaves to their dealers.
        Every single mom working two Jobs to support their family are slaves to their poverty.
        The workaholic's are slaves (willingly) to whatever it is that drives them to sacrifice everything else for whatever it is they gain by being workaholics.

        We are all slaves to whatever it is we LOVE the most.
        For many people, this would be our ego.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Hardly the same concept as ATM is talking about.

          1. Jerami profile image77
            Jeramiposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Not the same yet it is.   Seems like we live in a Yes ...  BUT (???)  World. 
            When reading anything, such as the bible, which was written in a different language and our interpretation of the original word does affect the translation of it.
            We are fooling ourselves when we think we completely understand what we have read, while thinking only in two dimensional terms.
            The meanings of many words change as the centuries pass and cultures change.
            To be someones servant in many instances is the same as being their slave when there "seems" to be no acceptable alternatives.

        2. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Wow, you really have no idea what I was talking about.

  13. gmwilliams profile image87
    gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago

    Oh for the LIFE of me NOT ANOTHER one of these...........dear, please!
    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/8386565_f248.jpg
    When will THERE be a non-confrontional religious thread for discussion?  This is TOO MUCH, ENOUGH!

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The use of the word "hell" should have tipped us off.

  14. JMcFarland profile image92
    JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago

    Is this what the OP is looking for?


    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/8263667_f248.jpg

    or how about:


    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/8398210_f248.jpg

    1. Ranzi profile image85
      Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for asking. No it wasn't.

    2. aliasis profile image96
      aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      +1

      I don't think this represents all Christians at all, or even most Christians. However, it's shocked how bullied Christians often think they are. Me standing up for gay people is religious intolerance? like... WHAT? Not wanting non-science like Creationism to be taught in science class is religious intolerance? Opting to say happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas is an absolute war on Christianity?

      And this paired with the countless "you're going to hell" (and worse) from Christians to atheists. I doubt an atheist ever told anyone their soul was going to burn for eternity, and that's a fair bit more offensive than "you believe in fairytales."

      Again, I don't think all religious people are like that. But I just cannot take Christian whining seriously.

  15. Ranzi profile image85
    Ranziposted 3 years ago

    Once again let's not make this a religious debate as you will never convince anyone. Im only talking about those people who go out of their way opening up debates, forums with people of faith only with the mission to shatter it.  This is not about chritians vs atheists (im a non believer myself) as I personally know alot of good charitble atheists who live in Africa and south america helping the poor without expecting anything in return. This is just a question about what is with this growing trend.. thanks for all your answers and many make some good points

    1. JMcFarland profile image92
      JMcFarlandposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      what about people that open up inflammatory forum topics to bash atheists and accuse us of bullying now, after several thousand years of enduring the reverse?  If you wanted an honest discussion, I'm not sure that the title of this thread or your OP were the way to go about it.  It's accusatory and picking a fight.  No wonder you're getting the responses that you're getting?

      1. Ranzi profile image85
        Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I have the right to express my thoughts and yeah 'what is their problem' and they did express their problem quite rightly. It is about respecting peoples beliefs. I have spoken in the same inflammatory manner to door knockers and my own friends trying to ram religion down my throat. The one thing that I will never do and have no right to do is try take away or shatter a faith that brings them peace. Anyway  it was good to also have your insight.  Cheers

        1. Ranzi profile image85
          Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What is op btw?

          1. Zelkiiro profile image85
            Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            ...Really? Are you new to the internet?

            "OP" is, and has always been "original poster" or "original post" (outside the context of video games, where it means "overpowered").

            1. Ranzi profile image85
              Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Really? Say I was new to the internet. But no I'm not new, I just don't usually start forums.

        2. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          How can you shatter a faith? You poor, poor thing you. sad Did some nasty atheist point out how ridiculous your beliefs are? Best way to fix that is to not hold such ridiculous beliefs.

          Why should I respect your beliefs exactly? Give me one good reason and I will start doing so. It is rather odd though - You don't seem to respect the beliefs of those who believe they need to spread the word door to door - so how come this doesn't apply to you?

          1. Ranzi profile image85
            Ranziposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You poor poor thing, get your facts straight before jumping to conclusions. What are my beliefs exactly?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Oh - you are defending a poor, poor thing then. Yay you! I don't know what your beliefs are. That is why it is so ridiculous to demand that people respect other's beliefs. For one - it seems to be that you believe other people's beliefs should be respected, no matter how outlandish and divisive they are. Give me one good reason to do so.

              And of course explain why this admonition to "respect other's beliefs" doesn't appear to apply to you.

        3. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          We do not respect hate speech, especially if it is masked as religious beliefs or verses taken from the Bible.

  16. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago

    1. Being a Christian is a choice.
    2. Coming to a well-hidden religious topical forum on a writer's website is a choice.

    I'm not sure that you can be persecuted by choice, or even bullied.  If you are making a conscious decision to take place in an argument then you really can't complain about being bullied.

    Now, about the who has it worse gays or Christians... here's a big surprise for you all.  I am most bullied about my sexuality by Christians. I am most bullied about my religion by members of the GLBT community.

    Not that either of them bullies me too much... mainly because if a *Who the hell cares what you think?* Doesn't work, I ignore them.

    It's truly beautiful.  If someone tries to be an ass to me, I... IGNORE THEM. Try it. Not a uppity "See how much better I am than you, I'm ignoring you" but a true honest to goodness complete apathy to anyone else's opinions on things that are your personal choice (Religion) or you innate nature (sexuality).

    I am completely aware that I need no one's approval for either of them and I have no desire to prove my correctness or superiority to anyone else. I see those who are jumping up and down screaming that they are right as being insecure and unsure of themselves. Like they can only be sure of their own beliefs/sexuality when everyone else on the planet agrees with them.

    There is great freedom in simply not giving a ****.  If you are unable to do this, you don't need to be on a forum, you need to be in a therapists chair working on your own self-esteem issues.