men have the attributes of consciousness, love and intelligence.
neither gods nor God has free will; any god worthy of the name is omniscient by definition. Knowing everything, they also know the proper and best method to accomplish anything at all. Knowing that, there is precious little free will left; only a mentally deficient being will intentionally use an inferior method of doing something.
As neither gods nor God actually exist they cannot truly said to be "related". Any relation is only perceived by humanity, just as the gods/God is.
Spirit, energy, free will and consciousness are all intrinsically intertwined. Spirit is often interchanged with *enthusiasm.* (Indeed, Wikipedia uses energy as a defining word for enthusiasm.) Therefore, it would appear that energy does have something to do with spirit.
Ah. You refer to a state of emotional being with the term "energy", not something that actually exists in the real world. "Free will" is another concept that exists only inside the mind and is not "real", either - perhaps they are indeed intertwined in some kind of mental orgy with consciousness.
In that case, it could very well have something to do with spirit, as the spirit would appear to reside or at least have a strong connection with the emotions of a human being. Could "spirit" merely be one's perception of self, and not some physical manifestation in this or other "dimension"?
...then what is causing everything outside of ourselves to manifest? - and yes, a mental, physical, and emotional orgy with consciousness and freewill intertwining is indeed what we're talking about. Very astute finding.
- is electricity the same as light? - or not. - light from the sun is not the same as nerve light is it? - what is nerve light? can it be considered electricity? - what is E= MC squared? - what starts a fire without a match... friction? - is heat energy? - Is heat evidence of spirit/energy? - is electricity evidence of spirit/energy? This discussion has led to the topic of *evidence vs. direct manifestation,* it seems.
Electricity is not the same as light. One is movement of electrons, one is photons.
Nerves do not produce light at all - sunlight is not nerve light.
Energy = mass X speed of light squared.
Friction, concentrated sunlight, lightning, other electrical discharges and probably some isolated chemical reactions that might get hot enough to ignite and burn specific substances. Volcanoes will light fires, as will any other very hot mass. It is possible to start a fire with radiation, or other nuclear reactions.
Heat, the motion of molecules, is a form of kinetic energy.
heat is not evidence of spirit unless spirit is material matter.
electricity is not evidence of spirit unless spirit contains electrons that are released to travel a conductor.
feelings are evidence of ... intelligence is evidence of... awareness is evidence of... volition is evidence of... what?
self? consciousness? soul? all of which require energy or electricity or some animating force. What is the force? Is it wrong to call it spirit? Is it wrong to call it energy? It is certainly not right to call it "perceptions." Who's to say that spirit is not material matter and does not contain electrons... I mean I have no idea. But we are discussing *evidence.* If there is no evidence of an animating force then nothing really exists. It is all a figment of our individual imaginations. And in that case there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever. Never mind. I'm sure the advertisers were not holding their breaths, here, anyway.
So Redwood trees are not evidence of an animating spirit which is causing the trees to grow to be a certain height, of a certain style, of a certain majesty among all trees? I have heard that trees pump sap and have a circulatory system. The animating force figured out that trees needed hearts. Furthermore, how do we know that trees do not love with these hearts? There is no proof to claim otherwise. (Maybe this is why some people hug trees!) Half Joking Half Serious
Not unless your "animating spirit" consists of a trillion copies of a DNA strand, the composition of the earth in that forest, the geology that results in a daily heavy mist but little rain, the climate of the area, etc.
If you wish to define spirit as the combination of all all those physical things that cause the Redwoods to grow as they do, then I guess it is there. If not, then no, there is no evidence of an "animating spirit".
You might want to re-consider the question of the trees loving. People do not love with hearts but with their brains and trees have no hearts anyway. A "circulatory" system perhaps, but no heart - they cannot have a heart with no muscle tissue in the tree. If you're going to make such a foolish claim at least make it with the stomach; that used to be considered the center of emotions, a tree "digests" "food" and perhaps could be considered to "feel" with it's "stomach". All very loosely defined (VERY loosely )
Good! Then we begin to have a definition, something we can hang our hat on, with the word "spirit".
Now we can view it, watch it and experiment with it. Monsanto is, after all working with spirit (DNA) all the time - it is not all that difficult. Heck, Mendel was looking at spirit over 100 years ago and understanding it - we can do MUCH better today!
And you were right all along - it is in each of us! (not in empty space, though, and not in stars and maybe not in other planets). It could, in fact, be ONLY on earth and nowhere else in the universe.
I said that "Not unless your "animating spirit" consists of a trillion copies of a DNA strand, the composition of the earth in that forest, the geology that results in a daily heavy mist but little rain, the climate of the area, etc."
You apparently took that to mean that such things were evidence of spirit, not spirit itself. But I meant what I said - it works only if "spirit" IS DNA. And dirt and all the other stuff, but DNA especially as without the other stuff a Redwood will probably grow but without the right DNA it won't be a Redwood.
Your "spirit" is a complex chemical, with atoms arranged in a double helix configuration. Question, though - does "soul" = "spirit"? Is soul just a complex chemical as well?
No I stand by what I said. DNA is not spirit… It is evidence of an animating force. Scientists cannot define this mysterious invisible undetectable force. But is definitely the guiding force behind all Creation from the beginning of the universe and throughout all "time." That force I understand to be God. Musings of a Former Atheist
I say everything that exists is proof of an animating spirit. What is there to not understand? Honestly, you would think the atheists would agree! *Animating sprit* is more realistic and scientifically provable than a "supernatural creature from another universe!"
Is Evidence of Spirit Enough?? Yes ? no? I think the answer is no. We are not satisfied with evidence. We just aren't. Actually this craving comes from somehow knowing that God exists. Until we sense this force directly we will never be content. Back to ESP. Back to Yoga. Back to Meditation. back to Jesus and Krishna who both made very clear: "The harvest is abundant…" "Heaven is (found) within." According to My Sources. (But now we are way off topic.) Back to Evidence…
The moon is evidence of spirit… Although some say it was man-made and that it is hollow inside! LOL
Speak for yourself. For many of us "left brained" critters, evidence is sufficient for knowledge (not sure what else would be).
In this specific case, zero evidence results in zero knowledge and, for the left brained, zero belief.
For the right brained, though, it can and does result in belief. This comes about because of the craving you mention: "I want it very badly, so it must be so". "And if it's not, I will believe anyway because I want to". It works very well for the right brained and is all that is necessary to produce a massive belief system.
Not all evidence is acceptable to all people. And what may seem like hard evidence of one thing may point to something else entirely. Happens all the time in courtrooms all around the world. People are convicted an acquitted because an evidentiary exposition leads to no other conclusion than the one at which they arrive. And then the real story comes out...because no one wanted ALL the evidence, just what they felt was sufficient to prove THEIR case.
That's kind of the point - evidence sometimes seems to point to one thing when another is actually true - except that there is zero evidence for a god out there. Evidence, not opinion - millions have an opinion without evidence to back it.
So that goes back to what I said - left brained people want evidence. Not opinion, not imagination, not rationalization or lies. Just hard, provable evidence available to anyone, and the very definitions used by most religious people today preclude anything like that.
Without evidence, then, the left brained person is left requiring that their brain shut down and utilize the emotional, wanting side of themselves. Which is what I said, after all.
You do eventually start to "hear" the person's voice don't you? Sorry about that Beth. Stop reading, then! You just can't help yourself can you? Because evidence is not enough, even for the God-believing Christian.
Warning: This thread is intended as a serious discussion for those interested in philosophy. Posts that attempt to proselytize or derail the discussion with an unrelated subject matter will not receive a response from...
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The soul, by definition, is meta-physical and is thought that the soul would be connected to the brain, not within the brain.It used to be thought that the soul resided in your heart - but getting a heart transplant...
Obviously if i'm an atheist and I don't believe in your God, why would I take your scriptures as evidence? That doesn't make any sense.Not to mention the bible has this nasty ideal that everything in it is true because...