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Why are atheists more concern about Christianity than Islam?

  1. Claire Evans profile image91
    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago

    Very rarely do I see a forum thread on Islam.  I have not seen an atheist who has started a thread on Islam insulting Mohammed or Allah or just speaking out against them.  Christianity and Jesus seem to be the target.  I know it is because the US, for example, is considered a Christian country but isn't Al Qaeda the enemy? Aren't Muslims trying to force their religion down our throats and in violent ways? The negatives in Christian behavior is nothing compared to the tyranny of extreme Islam.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image61
      A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Oh no, Christianity or Islam do not have monopolies on their followers trying to force their religions down our throats or teach bad behavior, they are equally evil ideologies that cause conflict in the world.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        What is it about Jesus that you believe is an evil ideology?

        1. Josak profile image58
          Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus himself was pretty much OK (except for supporting slavery) but that like it or not, most of the bible is not about Jesus and WOW is there a LOT of evil stuff in there.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus supported slavery???

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              According to the NT he supported the OT.

              1. Alison D Adams profile image60
                Alison D Adamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus was not even born yet during the Old Testament. How on earth could He even of had an opinion about anything let alone support it? There are three different Spirits here, remember. Old Testament "Lord" was completely different from the New Testament "Lord" or "Spirit" Do not get the two Books confused nor mingle them together.

                1. 61
                  James Cooper 54posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What are you on about? Yes, Jesus most definitely was alive during the old testament. Jesus was alive 2000 years ago.
                  From my research the dates of the old testament writings is between 1500 bc and 400 bc. so that's 400-1500 years older than Jesus.

                  1. CarrieG profile image79
                    CarrieGposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    Sorry, Jesus was not born in the old testament. Where in the Bible does Jesus appear? Show us the scriptures.

                2. 0
                  CultureCurmudgeonposted 21 months ago in reply to this

                  Jesus supported the Old Testament laws. Here are some quotes:
                  Matthew 5:17 - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill"
                  Matthew 5:19 - "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
                  Matthew 15:1-6 - "Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 'Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!'
                  Jesus replied, 'And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

                  In the last passage Jesus explicitly references, and states support of, Exodus 20:12, Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, and Deuteronomy 5:16.

                  Also, saying that Jesus wasn't alive during the Old Testament times and therefore didn't have an opinion on it is like saying that you weren't alive during Jesus' time and therefore can't have an opinion on it or support it.

                  And, really, saying "Don't mingle the Old and New Testament together" is like saying "The Matrix movies are totally different, don't act as if they're part of the same story, reference each other, and are individually essential to the understanding of the others."

                  1. CarrieG profile image79
                    CarrieGposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    Of course these scriptures you are using are NT scriptures. Could Jesus  have known what the laws were and not have been born yet? If you say no he couldn't then you were not born in the OT but you know what's going on. Show me scriptures where Jesus appeared in the OT.

                3. Christopher Jay T profile image83
                  Christopher Jay Tposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                  Jesus read the old testament.

          2. Ian Rayner profile image59
            Ian Raynerposted 22 months ago in reply to this

            You do know that Slavery back then was not the same as Slavery in America, right? Butlers and Maids are slaves. In the OT it says you have to feed and pay your slaves and you cannot hurt them.

            1. 0
              CultureCurmudgeonposted 21 months ago in reply to this

              Israelite slaves were treated much like serfs. As far as slaves of other races...
              Exodus 21:20-21 - "If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property."
              So you can beat your slave to death just as long as he survives a day or two before dying.

              Exodus 21:26-27 - "If a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave, and destroys it, he shall let him go free on account of his eye. And if he knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth."
              You can beat them, but don't knock out teeth or eyes.

              Numbers 31:17-18 - "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man"
              Sometimes, if you conquer some people, you get sex slaves.

              Yeah. Slavery was totally sunshine and lollipops back then too.

              1. Christopher Jay T profile image83
                Christopher Jay Tposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                Except there is no shred of evidence that Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt. There is also no evidence that they spent
                40 years in the Sinai desert.

        2. Christopher Jay T profile image83
          Christopher Jay Tposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          Jesus is mentioned more in the Koran than in the bible. There's nothing evil about Christ. the problem is Christians never follow the example set by Jesus. Christianity Judaism and Islam, all worship the same god. so leave the Muslims alone. It's not like Christianity wasn't also spread by the sword.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 16 months ago in reply to this

            Most religious people believe that Christianity, Judaism and Islam worship the same God.  It just isn't true.  Allah is a moon god and Yahweh is a Canaanite god of war.

        3. My Esoteric profile image89
          My Esotericposted 12 months ago in reply to this

          The only thing in common between the teachings of the proud Jew Jesus and the faith that was created using him as their martyr is the use of Jesus' name.  The Christian faith, in practice, bears no resemblance to what Jesus believed and I would have to think Jesus would be (or is, depending on your point of view) appalled and disgusted by the hypocrisy of 95% of the Protestant and Catholic leadership and 90% of their followers.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image87
            jonnycomelatelyposted 12 months ago in reply to this

            ++

          2. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 12 months ago in reply to this

            But you didn't say what Jesus' evil ideology is.  I would agree that Christianity has distorted what Jesus is all about to a certain degree.  The Vatican is just opposed to Jesus, Himself.  So, yes, Jesus is disgusted.

            1. Live to Learn profile image80
              Live to Learnposted 12 months ago in reply to this

              It always amazes me when I run across someone who thinks they can speak for God. The power must make one giddy.

              1. My Esoteric profile image89
                My Esotericposted 12 months ago in reply to this

                Then why do you?

              2. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 12 months ago in reply to this

                Well, it says in the Bible that Jesus was disgusted by hypocrisy.  Can I not use the Bible to support what I say? It hardly requires divine revelation.

                1. My Esoteric profile image89
                  My Esotericposted 12 months ago in reply to this

                  Yes, but only if the context is "that is what the Bible says" and not "that is what God says"; they are not one-in-the-same, after all..

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 12 months ago in reply to this

                    No, they aren't one and the same but without the Bible, we wouldn't have known about Jesus or anything He did.  So, if one looks at the Bible, Jesus didn't like hypocrites.  That would not be hard to believe.  Holiness excludes hypocrisy.

            2. My Esoteric profile image89
              My Esotericposted 12 months ago in reply to this

              Just from observation, reading the Bible a couple of times, listening to lectures on Jesus I have come to the conclusion that 1) there are a few people who try to live their life as Jesus preached, 2) that most people who call themselves Christians follow a very distorted view of what Jesus preached, and 3) there are very few in the Christian leadership and corporate structure that a) don't follow Jesus' thoughts and b) don't even care.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 12 months ago in reply to this

                Yes I agree but you haven't said what Jesus' evil ideology was?

    2. aliasis profile image95
      aliasisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Because the Christians already take care of Islam hatred. lol wink

      Seriously, though, in the West - at least in the US - Islam is such a minority religion. As an atheist, no, I'm not "concerned" about Christianity at all. If any faith gives you hope and peace and encourages you to be a good person, good for you. What my problem is, is when faith is used as a weapon against other people. I have a problem when Christians - or theoretically adherents of any religion - try to make itself a part of government rather than a totally separate institution, when they encourage discrimination and hate against people, deny or reject science to serve their own agenda (well, believe what you like, but it's obnoxious) or foster superstitions, try to convert people who aren't interested and tells nonbelievers they will go to hell... you see my point.

      I have never once had a Muslim come up to me and accuse me. Christians? Yes. Now, again, this is a matter of numbers - the majority of Christians, as the majority of people of any religion (or lack thereof) are great, well-meaning and sympathetic people, but you'll always have that really crazy minority. Unfortunately, in the US, that minority has a lot of power. They change laws. They censor us. They deny people's rights. It affects me. In America, most Muslims are just trying to let people know they aren't terrorists and their religion doesn't tell them to kill Americans or whatever, they aren't concerned with converting or annoying people. I admit I feel sympathetic with Islam just because of all the crap Muslims get in America (and Europe). And many Islamic countries, for that matter, who take ultra-conservative interpretations of the Koran and even add their own original crazy stuff to oppress people, no more a representation than the Westboro Baptist Church if they had their own country (all the gods forbid).

      If Islam in America became significant enough to do what I feel Christianity can (and has done), I might be more concerned. In a global scale, what do I think of Islam? Same as Christianity, or Hinduism, or Judaism, etc.: if it gives you hope and helps you be a good person, good for you. Just don't hurt other people because of it. And Christianity and Islam ultimately aren't all that different, in that their holy books manage to preach both peace and war, teach people to be kind to others while also talking about who is going to hell, etc. And Jesus exists in Islam, too, you know. smile

      1. Anasbin Jaleel Tp profile image59
        Anasbin Jaleel Tpposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        good one !! really appreciated !! big_smile

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why do atheists think it is only worthy to speak out against something if it affects them personally? I write about atrocities outside of my country even though it doesn't affect me.  It is a concern that extreme Islam is on the rise of the world.  More relevant, however, is why do atheists feel the need to tell Christians there God is imaginary rather than just condemning their behaviour? Believing in God does not automatically make on oppressive.





        What laws have been changed? How has censorship happened and rights violated?  Sharia law exists in the United States and I think that is scarier than Christians telling atheists to go to hell.  An atheist got a taste of what happens when they insult the prophet Mohammed:

        "A Pennsylvania state judge recently dismissed an assault case involving a Muslim man who attacked an atheist for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

        The judge's decision has outraged freedom of speech proponents and some legal experts, who say it is in clear violation of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

        Some legal experts are also wondering if this case demonstrates how Islamic sharia law is slowly creeping into the U.S. legal system.

        The incident occurred last year in Mechanicsburg, Pa., when an atheist came dressed as "Zombie Muhammad" for a Halloween parade.

        Forty-six-year-old Talaag Elbayomy was accused of attacking Ernest Perce V, with the Parading Atheists of Central Pennsylvania, during the Oct. 11 parade.

        Perce claimed Elbayomy tried to take his "Muhammad of Islam" sign and choked him. The incident was caught on video.

        Elbayomy, who attended the parade event with his family, said he felt compelled to do something in face of the insult to his religion."

        http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/Febr … S-Courts-/

        1. Oztinato profile image81
          Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Claire
          this sounds like religious intolerance.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Why do atheists think it is only worthy to speak out against something if it affects them personally? I write about atrocities outside of my country even though it doesn't affect me.  It is a concern that extreme Islam is on the rise of the world.  More relevant, however, is why do atheists feel the need to tell Christians there God is imaginary rather than just condemning their behaviour? Believing in God does not automatically make on oppressive.


            Not sure why you have included a comment that is not from me.  I don't know what you mean when you say I'm showing religious intolerance.  There is no place for extremists in any religion because they always are destructive.

      3. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        aliasis, so sorry I missed this post of yours when you wrote it. 

        Well done!  Such a balanced, sensible, compassionate response.  I could not have said it better myself (even if I had tried!).

      4. Oztinato profile image81
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Even the craziest scary religious fanatics are not trying to desperately legalize beastiality and infanticide but many prominent atheist leaders are trying to push it into law. I marvel at how online atheists feign ignorance on this topic.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Pedophilia has been practiced by certain Christian groups for thousands of years. We just can't get them to stop as they don't think it all that bad.

          Have you ever pet a cat or dog?

          1. Oztinato profile image81
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Pedophilia is really really bad and all beliefs condemn it be they atheist or religion. Some religions are so old that doctrines are outdated. Remember once people only lived to be about 25 or 30 if they were lucky , and they married at a very young age; even in the USA and not only Islam. But lifespans have changed and so should doctrines.
            Patting a cat or dog is not beastiality: beastialty is having sex with an animal.

        2. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          A quick Google search of Peter Singer turns up information on a number of ideas that are abhorrent to me, especially as a Christian.  However, even reviewing the sites of his most vocal detractors shows me nothing at all regarding zoophilia or an open call to, or approval of, bestiality.  Infanticide, yes.  Do you have any credible links that show him openly, or even tentatively, approving bestiality?  If not, while many of his ideas are completely lacking in sound humanitarian ethics, you might not wish to highlight the whole zoophilia/bestiality idea as so dire.  It seems to me that extreme animal activism doesn't translate to a sexual love/desire for animals the same way as humans for one another.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Try wikipedia and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

        3. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          What atheist leaders are trying to push that into law?

          1. janesix profile image59
            janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think OZ likes to stir things up, without ever having anything real to say that makes any sense.

            1. Oztinato profile image81
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I think there are a number of people here who need to do just a little more homework. I know its nauseatingly unpleasant but googling some of this turns up a lot.
              Legalized beastialtiy was only recently barely defeated in the German Parliament. The atheist group there wants to marry their pets.
              There was a huge international outcry recently when some of Singer's graduates got an article into the Australian Medical Association journal arguing for legalizing infanticide.
              The Netherlands has just passed laws legalizing infanticide in very dubious scenarios.
              There is no organized opposition to such developments by any atheist groups; only by very aware religious people and some very aware politicians.
              The list goes on.
              Do your homework if you care.

              1. janesix profile image59
                janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I don't care. The world is effed up. What one more Miley Cyrus to throw in the mix? Even that is laughable. This planet is doomed if we don't get our sh** together. At least our species is.

                I do care, by the way. I'm just dispirited by the whole mess.

              2. A Troubled Man profile image61
                A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So, no actual atheist leaders pushing it into law, then. You just made that up?

              3. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                From the NY Times, about a year ago:
                "BERLIN — Germany’s upper house of Parliament, the Bundesrat, voted Friday to criminalize for the first time “using an animal for personal sexual activities” and to punish offenders with fines of as much as $34,000. It was the final legislative hurdle for a bill the lower house passed in December."  (bolding added)

                That doesn't sound like an effort to legalize bestiality to me.  I think your story is just a bit skewed and spun; to the point that it is actually 180 degrees from what actually happened.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oztinato is obviously a s..t-stirrer.   He or she takes delight in writing stuff that gets people arguing, then sits back and watches.   

                  If ever he or she wrote something that was true we would miss it.

            2. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Very true, couldn't agree with you more.

          2. Alison D Adams profile image60
            Alison D Adamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Atheist are very funny people.  They claim they do not believe in God. Think about this for a second......Wouldn't there have to BE a God, in order to NOT believe in Him?

            1. JMcFarland profile image93
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              does there have to be aliens to not believe in them?  Does there have to be a Sasquatch to not believe in it?  Think about it this way.  Muslims believe in Allah.  Christians do not.  Does that mean that Allah has to necessarily exist for Christians to deny him?

              1. Jomine Jose profile image80
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It is a fundamental question. People neither believe nor don't believe in god. For them to believe/disbelieve God they first have to hear what god said.  What they do is "believe in" people who say there is or is not a god.

              2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Maybe this is part of the difference, that most Christians don't have any problem simply saying they don't believe in things they don't believe in.  "I don't believe in _________."

            2. Jomine Jose profile image80
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Exactly, you nailed it.

            3. 61
              idealisticposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Not at all. People don't believe in unicorns,  leprechauns, purple dragons, the loch ness monster, Bigfoot,  and millions of other things. Does that mean they exist? Or is your premise only limited to God?  If you apply this thought to God,  then it applies to other things people disbelieve (including Allah, vishnu, buddha, shiva, and other gods of other religions)

            4. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes it seems so, and I think this is partly why some will insist you word that another way that removes what seems to be obvious.  That being, it is strongly suggested or insisted that we all word it "that they lack a belief in God", not just not believe in God. Otherwise you are wrong.   This makes sense to some even though they once believed and now don't.  I think what matters is the actual, over the words. We do t normally say, "I lack belief in unicorns, etc.". This is what u have learned over the years.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I definitely lack belief in unicorns. So...if you start a forum entitled The Unicorn is the Most Beautiful Animal Alive!!!
                I probably will not discuss that with you...at all. smile and it would work the same for your, Freddy Came for Me Last Night; Should've Locked My Door!!! forum too. smile

                1. Alison D Adams profile image60
                  Alison D Adamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That's too funny. But I do believe in aliens. I know they do exist. Too much proof, and I have been in Nevada too many times (not Vegas) too know better. Just where do you think Flight 370 is?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    smile I didn't mention aliens but I really didn't think to. Those ideas seem plausible; but my mind is just not interested. (They come get me...everyone will know the story when I get back; I'm bringing souvenirs. smile )

                  2. Jomine Jose profile image80
                    Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Have you heard anything from the aliens ,to believe in them? Or do you believe aliens exist?

              2. Alison D Adams profile image60
                Alison D Adamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                In light of all that is, most  "self-proclaimed" Atheist say the following...."I do not believe in Him" That's what I think is friggin' hysterical ! Think about it..really? I just look at them and cock my head to one side and look at them like their head is growing bean-sprouts. LOL

                1. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So you think we're funny and you want to laugh at us,  but you don't want to ask us directly what we think when we refute your absurd statements about us when you're not us?   That seems honest.   Several people now have refuted your statement.   The only people you seem to want to interact with are the ones agreeing with you and patting you on the back for your misconception.

                  1. Alison D Adams profile image60
                    Alison D Adamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Not funny "ha-ha" funny " funny as in "peculiar" sorry should have made that clear. I am not making fun of you in any way. I believe every one is entitled to their opinions. My daughter went from being a baptized Southern Baptist, to a self-proclaimed Atheist, now she believes in the Lord and goes to church and reads the Bible and is a reformed Christian. Which more than her mom is. I do not believe in organized religion, doesn't mean it does not exist, I just feel it is all hypocritical and the preachers/priest whatever are all in it for the money. I have been Methodist, United Pentecostal & Southern Baptist, nope...I believe in a higher power....Lord God Almighty. Not in brick & morter

                  2. Oztinato profile image81
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    JMc
                    We cant understand why many atheists practice total intolerance to religion
                    as this is bigotry.
                    I see a place for atheism but bigotry is not
                    Real atheism.
                    We shouldnt criticise religion for being intolerant and then go on to be intolerant of religion.

            5. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              To me, there would have to be a God if one claims that he is mean or injust.
              It goes like this:
              "There is no God. He murders; leaves starving children to die; has all these impossible demands; and is waiting to burn everybody!"
              Now THAT is the funny part to me. wink imaginary people DO nothing. How can they? They do not exist.

              1. Jomine Jose profile image80
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Don't you even understand the difference between 'god' and "god you propose"? No wonder most arguments go over your head!

                It will be confusing for somebody who can't understand even basic arguments.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I saw her post as sharing some of the observations she sees of people on these forums.  Not as missing any point of an argument.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I think basic arguments are also my cup of tea. I can handle xyz. You post mbq. Go figure...

                  1. Jomine Jose profile image80
                    Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I said basic "arguments" not babble. You don't even know the difference between logic and belief!!!

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The vast majority of Muslims in North America are peace loving people who mind there own business with the exception of the odd one that tries to blow stuff up.

      That being said if you are looking for someone to speak up you need to go no further than Sam Harris

      "It is time we recognized—and obliged the Muslim world to recognize—that “Muslim extremism” is not extreme among Muslims.  Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world."

      "Our press should report on the terrifying state of discourse in the Arab press, exposing the degree to which it is a tissue of lies, conspiracy theories and exhortations to recapture the glories of the seventh century.  All civilized nations must unite in condemnation of a theology that now threatens to destabilize much of the Earth.  Muslim moderates, wherever they are, must be given every tool necessary to win a war of ideas with their coreligionists.  Otherwise, we will have to win some very terrible wars in the future. It is time we realized that the endgame for civilization is not political correctness.  It is not respect for the abject religious certainties of the mob.  It is reason."

      1. IslandBites profile image85
        IslandBitesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        http://shegznstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/facebook-fan-page-marketing.jpg

        1. Glenis Rix profile image84
          Glenis Rixposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          I would class myself as a humanist and I am not more concerned by one religion than by another. I am disinterested in the religious beliefs of the rest of the world - people should be free to worship, or not worship, as they choose.
          I believe that the vast majority of Muslims are very morally upright - I personally have known some delightful ones in the past. On the other hand there have been some very evil 'Christians' throughout history - Hitler, for example, or King Henry VIIII.
          We cannot tar everyone with the same brush because they belong to a particular race or religion. For example, were all Irish people thought to be bad and dangerous when the IRA was at the height of terrorist activity? No.
          I believe that extremism has nothing, or little, to do with religion. It is about the disaffected - people who have nothing, or very little, and want something to cling to that makes them feel that they are valued and that they have a purpose in life. Young people are drawn into some extreme movements on the basis of the lie that they are about religion. Who knows what is in the minds of those at the top of the hierarchy who brainwash and manipulate the naive to perform dreadful acts? All I know is that the lessons of history indicate that good will triumph over evil eventually. And that has nothing to do with what religious beliefs an individual holds. It's about morality,ethics, doing the right thing.

      2. Josak profile image58
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Rubbish. When extremists killed the ambassador in Libya what did all these evil Muslims do? They kicked down the doors of the militia responsible and drove hem from the country risking their own lives, often unarmed against armed me.

        The average Muslim all round the world is a moderate.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I agree. I never said I completly agree with Harris. She was looking for someone speaking out against Islam so I showed her someone who is doing just that.

          Unfortunately, Muslims don't have a reputation for speaking out against extremists. Maybe they do, but the media doesn't report it.

          1. psycheskinner profile image79
            psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I see Christians pull this card all the time but don't think it is true.  I see the mainsteam Councils and mosques speaking out against terrorism and abusive behavior (e.g. domestic violence) all the time.  In fact rather more than Christian leaders who tend to ignore little things like the Army of God child soldiers etc.

            If the media often fails to carry these stories, that is on the media.

    4. Josak profile image58
      Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Islam is pretty distant to all but a few people around here. I have never been told who I can and can't marry, what I can and can't watch or what scientific research I can do by a Muslim, the day I am I will be angry with them too.

      Christians really need to start focusing on their own house rather than trying to pass on all the heat to another religion.

      Also to the person who said it was fear, don't be ridiculous. Islam is just as bad as Christianity sometimes worse. There is no fear at all.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That's not true at all. Look what happened when some drew a few cartoons of Mohammad. There is fear among people who wish to want to speak against Islam and with good reason.

        1. Josak profile image58
          Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What happened? Some protests and a bombing. What happened when doctors tried to perform legal abortions in the US? Some protests and several bombings and murders.

          The difference are just mind blowing!!!

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Some protests and a bombing for a cartoon? What's a little bombing?

            1. Josak profile image58
              Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The discussion is that it's unfair to focus on Christians because Muslims are worse, yet Christians are prone to bombing things to. (See abortion clinics as an example).

              To us in the Christianized west abortion my seem a more contentious issue than a cartoon but these perceptions are cultural ultimately and apparently depictions of Muhammad (let alone insulting depictions) are a very contentious issue in the Islamised east.

              So both sides have proven themselves unable to peacefully deal with disagreement.

              To be fair however the vast majority of believers in both faiths would reject both these actions.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I get what you are saying and I don't think either side is worse then the other, however I will not be performing any abortions in the near future, but as a designer I could be drawing cartoons.

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Who tells you who you can marry and not marry, what to watch or not and science research? Please give me examples. 

        I will admit it is pretty irritating when people invade your space to preach.  I show Jehovah's witnesses the door.  However, that does not automatically negate what that person is preaching.   It doesn't mean God doesn't exist because Christians are irritating.

    5. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
      Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Every one has had their kick at the terrorist can, The Jews did it early on the way to promised land wiping out at least 7 other tribes.

      The Christians did it for almost 2000 years with various holy wars and inquisitions.

      Now it's the Muslims turn, it seems. It is as if all these monotheistic cults eventually turn to tyranny because their religion tells them to. God's way or death.

      Then they eventually peter out and settle down, But on;y when people get tired of them and even their own adherents force them out of power. After all, it was the Christians who separated church and state, not us atheists. 

      But now atheism is on the rise around the world, particularly among the young. Evolution does bring hope some times.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why would evolution bring hope sometimes? Evolution doesn't explain how life started on earth.  It just explains how organisms adapt.  Evolution doesn't negate God if that is what you are saying.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Abiogenesis would negate a Creator.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Lol.  Abiogenesis is not a scientific fact.  It has not been proven to be the source of all life.  So don't believe in things that have not been empirically proven.  That would be thinking like a Christian.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, but it is a valid theory, which has experimental evidence. It is not blind faith like Christianity.

              1. Josak profile image58
                Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                +1

              2. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Please give me your sources and this experimental evidence.

                "The origin of life is a scientific problem which is not yet solved. There are plenty of ideas, but few clear facts.[1]"

                http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

                Since no one can prove what the exact conditions were when it first was formed and when this abiogenesis was supposed to have happened it is thus impossible to come to the conclusion that abiogenesis was the cause of life.  What is the alternate? Intelligent design which is ALSO possible.  I mean, they don't call DNA the blueprint of life for nothing.

                I think this is why Richard Dawkins thinks it is possible that life came from extra-terrestrials.

                Shifting gears to the theory of evolution.  Does it not take faith to come to conclusions when there are missing links?

                And even if abiogenesis was proven then whose to say God did not design that process? See how science, when something cannot be empirically proven, and Christian faith both use faith to come to conclusions?

                1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                  A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but the conditions are well known and experiments for self-replicating RNA strands and proteins have been conducted.



                  That's just more creationism crap.



                  lol Sorry, no he doesn't think that.



                  There are no missing links.



                  Gods have never been shown to exist.



                  No, but I see Christian ignorance and fabrications regarding the origins of life that have nothing to do with science.

                2. Josak profile image58
                  Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this
                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    RNA cannot replicate without protein and we have to ask ourselves how that proceeding RNA in order to provide a template for RNA to replicate."
                    RNA can't self replicate on its own. Why doesn't this molecule that can copy itself exist anymore?  It's all very well to test RNA self replicator but if you cannot trace it to the beginning then you have "cheating".  In other words, using material already existing to prove a point.

                    Here's a point:

                    "RNA replication in the lab makes use of extensive investigator interference. Chemicals like amino acids, aldehydes, and sugars (other than ribose) are arbitrarily excluded. Very specific activation agents are used to encourage replication (ImpA for adenine, ImpG for guanine, ImpC for cytosine, and ImpU for uracil). The concentration of the chemicals (especially cytosine and ribose) is billions and billions of orders of magnitude higher than what one would expect under plausible prebiotic conditions."

                    http://www.lifesorigin.com/chap10/RNA-s … tion-3.php

            2. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
              Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              A god forming humans from clay is abiogenesis. You wouldn’t call god biological or the process of breathing life into clay a biological process. So you are stuck with abiogenisis regardless.
              Science sets out to prove very few things. Models based on facts is what science does. As a model abiogenisis is useful, and based on many facts. We don’t have details, of course, as to exactly how it happened, but there are several models being explored.
              We already discovered that at one time before DNA, RNA based life existed. RNA then developing into DNA. Amino acids are basic building blocks of biology and they can be created in the lab with ease, as well as having been found even in space. 
              It is a matter of time before we get a really good model. Then we will be able to test it.
              Craig Vetner  has built the first living cell from scratch. His institute is the one that sequenced the human genome. So much for only god being able to create life from scratch. Christians have always maintained that it was impossible.
              He’s headed for amazing things.

              No need to believe anything when you deal in probability. I'd say abiogenesis is highly probable based on current understanding and a persistently absent god.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                What? Are you telling me that God can't set off biological processes?



                Can you give me a reference that proves RNA just appeared on its own.  How did RNA get here?  It cannot self replicate on its own.  It also seems unconvincing that DNA just knew how to copy.  There is a genetic code that is responsible for that.



                Please give me a reference.



                Who says that Abiogenesis automatically negates God? He could be response for the initial process.

                1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  “What? Are you telling me that God can't set off biological processes?”

                  I don’t know that a god exists or what it would be capable of if it did. What I said was that a god breathing life in to clay would be abiogenesis were it true. Gods breathing in to things and transforming them is not a biological process that I am aware of.

                  “Can you give me a reference that proves RNA just appeared on its own.”

                  You mean made itself on purpose? Of course not. It evolved from other processes.

                    “How did RNA get here?”

                  I just answered that.

                  “ It cannot self replicate on its own.”

                  Really? What do you mean by that exactly?

                  “ It also seems unconvincing that DNA just knew how to copy.”

                  DNA knowing anything is unconvincing. No one said it does.

                  “ There is a genetic code that is responsible for that.”

                  All processes use other processes and are effected by other processes. What is your point? That DNA didn’t just create itself and start replicating? We all agree with you there. You are going to have to do a little more studying of processes and interactions. Here’s a clue: It all starts with the quantum and how it behaves and how it forms all things and how it makes those things behave.  This is a layer upon layer process, not instant like a god breathing life into a rock.



                  “Please give me a reference.”

                  I did. Look him up. Here’s a link:
                  http://thesciencenetwork.org/search?q=C … =3&y=9




                  “Who says that Abiogenesis automatically negates God? He could be response for the initial process.”
                  No one says that. At least I didn't. I said because god is absent so no one can know if there is one or not, not even you, it is likely that biology started through a non-biological means. And as I said you need to study physics to start seeing how that works.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You don't get it.  If you cannot provide movies of the first RNA and DNA being formed in the primordial soup, then God did it. 

                    Always, if we're ignorant of something, Goddunnit.

                  2. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    People say that Abiogenesis is possible because RNA is self-replicating.  We know that it cannot be if proteins hadn't existed. 






                    In other words, it needs a template more specifically a protein.





                    You know what I mean by knowing.  Unless programmed by something, it cannot copy itself. 





                    The argument I was having with ATM was that Abiogenesis could not happen spontaneously.  More specifically, RNA could not just emerge and self replicate.  You clearly have a different view to him.  I really don't believe God breathed life into a rock. 






                    Yes, A Troubled Man says that.  What I do know is that Abiogenesis is far from a proven theory.

            3. Christopher Jay T profile image83
              Christopher Jay Tposted 16 months ago in reply to this

              the Bible proves nothing it is a religious text. No one was there to witness where everything came from.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                Yes, the creation story proves nothing.  I just now God and Satan are creators of life yet the Bible makes me non the wiser how it was done.

                1. Christopher Jay T profile image83
                  Christopher Jay Tposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                  what I'm saying is you can't prove the bible is true. And tha t "it's true because is say's it's" bullshit doesn't fly with me. It's just a book written by men. No one was there to see creation, and no body really knos if god exists, nor wich god it is.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 16 months ago in reply to this

                    Trust me.  I'm right about God and Satan being the creators.  Take it or leave it.

        2. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
          Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I meant human evolution away from religion. All religions have a best before date on them.  The way we evolve brings hope that in a few generations more people will be logical as opposed to emotional thinkers. That can only bring hope for the world.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Beg to disagree. Logical isn't necessarily moral, compassionate or kind.

            1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
              Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I think being truly logical encompasses all those things, and there is the added benefit of knowing why they are logical.

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, I think you are sugar coating, to an extent; probably since you consider yourself to be logical and you feel you possess those traits. But, I'm afraid those traits are neither born of logic or necessarily the byproduct of logical thinking. If you don't possess them you can reason your way to some incredibly heinous acts.

                1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  As I said, there are logical reasons for having all the traits you mentioned as well as for developing them if you are a little lacking. But you are right that some people are good at rationalizing their way into all sorts. But they are not living truly logical lives. Few people do, which is my point.

                  I've written various hubs on the natural reasons for morality and empathy etc. And I know you don't like long posts.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not saying I don't see the logic in morality. But, I think you and I probably both come from similar Western backgrounds. It isn't far fetched to think we would agree. What might seem logical to us only seems that way because we have certain values embedded into us by a lifetime of interacting with others who have similar values and seeing the benefits attained by developing those traits. Heinous acts by my standards are not heinous or illogical to those who have come from vastly different cultures, nor are they heinous by the standards of others within those cultures; and many times I understand the thought progression that led them where they went. There is nothing illogical in their actions.

                    Morality isn't inborn simply because what is morally right and wrong differs by culture and even within cultures there are vast variances. Compassion and kindness may be natural traits in our young but so are a lot of less desirable traits. And, let's be brutally honest. In some ways, it isn't logical to develop them.  A Wall Street stockbroker can't see the logic in compassion and kindness. Businesses are run on amoral values. Governments make decisions that aren't morally sound for the welfare of large sections of the population. Are those in these sectors illogical?

            2. Josak profile image58
              Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Logic has the best chance of doing those things.

          2. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You really think that if everyone became an atheist the world would be a much better place? Do you think that Jesus is the motivation behind the countries wanting to invade Syria and cause death and carnage?

            Logic doesn't mean morality.

            1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
              Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              “ You really think that if everyone became an atheist the world would be a much better place?”
              No. But if everyone was truly logical it certainly would.
              “ Do you think that Jesus is the motivation behind the countries wanting to invade Syria and cause death and carnage? “
              No. But it isn’t logic either. It isn’t even atheism.

              “Logic doesn't mean morality.”
              No but Logic leads you to morality if you follow it all the way through.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Give me an example of logic leading to morality. 






                No, it's logic.  The United States wants to invade Syria to take over their natural resources to prop up their dying dollar.  That is logic.   





                Logic to evil people is to trample over everyone else to get what they want.  You really need to wake-up.  What is logic to evil people and what is logic to good people are often very different.

                1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                  Slarty O'Brianposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  "No, it's logic.  The United States wants to invade Syria to take over their natural resources to prop up their dying dollar.  That is logic. " 

                  No, it's actually stupidity. No one has learned that the present day problems with the middle east is because of exactly that kind of thing, which has been going on for over a hundred years between the US ,England, Holland and Portugal to name a few. Piss in anyone's yard enough times and they are bound to have a slight problem with you.

                  "Logic to evil people is to trample over everyone else to get what they want.  You really need to wake-up.  What is logic to evil people and what is logic to good people are often very different."

                  Logic is logic. There is no your logic, evil logic, or my logic. It can be used for any purpose you want, but the point is that following it to its conclusion leads you to moral principals. An "evil" person may use logic as a tool but they are not logical people. Greed, hate, the desire for power over others, etc, are not logical goals.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Heard of the problem reaction solution chain? There are powers out there that purposely create problems so that they can provide the solutions to their advantage.   Anyway, you have conceded  that evil people use logic as a tool.  Therefore they must be capable of being logical.   Logic does not always equate people's desire for innocent means.   Logic  can be used to deceive. 







                    Logic leads to moral principles?  Not always.   People can attempt to follow logic all they like but we have an innate gravitation towards evil.

    6. HowardBThiname profile image90
      HowardBThinameposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Good topic, Claire,

      As an atheist, I am concerned with pressure and influence from both religions, but if I'm honest - the biggest threat to world peace today is radical Islam. That's a fact.

      I think the reason some atheists (or even liberal spiritualists, in general) attack Christianity but not Islam is because they are still dealing with their own early feelings of Christianity. Most of them felt pressured as kids - or they are lost in the ancient history of Christianity where things like witch-burnings and the Inquisition took place.

      But those days are over and Christianity has policed itself and cleaned up after itself. We still have some neo-nazi-types citing Jesus words in the New Testament (about Jews being children of the Devil) in order to persecute that culture/race.

      But - and this is the clincher - when push comes to shove and we need young men and women to step up and defend our nation and our interests in other parts of the world - Christians still outnumber atheists. So - we owe them that recognition. Percentage-wise, Muslims in the US are loath to enlist and fight - because they know our enemy is currently the radicals in their own religion.

      I'm an atheist - but I'm honest enough to admit which religion is creating the most worldwide havoc today.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent, thanks.

    7. JG11Bravo profile image93
      JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      This is quite the can of worms to have opened, and I don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but how is it any more appropriate to push an anti-religious agenda than to push a particular faith?  Perhaps the answer here isn't whether atheists should be picking on Christians or Muslims but whether atheists should be picking on anyone at all, and vice versa.

      I've been an atheist since I was old enough to understand the concept of religion, not because I believe that organized religion is an evil that needs to be stemmed, but because I believe that there is nothing so grand in the universe as to require more than what can be explained by science.  I don't need a higher power to explain the world, in other words.  That said, I don't deem it necessary or appropriate to condemn those who choose not to feel as I do on the subject, and I don't believe it to be the right of anyone to dictate how a person looks at the world.

      1. IslandBites profile image85
        IslandBitesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.

      2. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for that.

        1. JG11Bravo profile image93
          JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Hopefully one day cooler heads will prevail. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Guess it depends on the heads.

            1. JG11Bravo profile image93
              JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I submit that all of the cool heads go to the right side of the room, the hot heads go to the left, and ask that everybody keep their voices down.

              1. Glenis Rix profile image84
                Glenis Rixposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                Probably the most sensible thing I have read on this forum!

    8. 0
      Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      because it's the work of Satan.  You see, the God of Christianity is REAL, whereas Allah is nothing more than Satan in disguise.  That's why there is such animosity towards Christians.  It is what it is.

      1. JMcFarland profile image93
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        so...all of the Christians that are badmouthing Muslims and saying things like Allah is Satan - they're doing that proves that Allah is real by your logic, right?  That's why there's a lot of animosity towards Muslims from Christians?

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image61
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "because it's the work of infidels.  You see, Allah is REAL, whereas the God of Christianity is nothing more than infidels in disguise.  That's why there is such animosity towards Muslims.  It is what it is."

        This is what religion teaches people, to hate each other.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Love you ED.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image61
            EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That's a false statement. Why say it when it isn't true?

            Oh, I get it now, this is one of those jokes we often miss.

            That was good sarcasm. LOL.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Aw, I do have a love for you ED. Call it a lie if you will, it doesn't affect the truth. You can get angry with someone and still care about them. I've been angry with you a few times. I have found you to be callous, harsh and bullish at times, but that doesn't mean I don't care about you.

              1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I bet you don't love me though.....I think I'll just go and eat some worms now. sad

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I love all of you. Does that make me sound like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz?
                  I remember watching the ending of one of those reality shows where they were on an island... and this woman was screaming at this man, she said something like, 'If you were on fire, I wouldn't spit on you to put it out." Does that make sense to anyone? I found it unbelievable.

                  I don't like anyone speaking ill of my God... He is the love of my life, it hurts me personally, it is offensive, but if He loves me... why on earth could I not love you? If God can find it in His heart to forgive me, why could I not find it in my heart to forgive you?

                  1. Disappearinghead profile image89
                    Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    smile

                  2. EncephaloiDead profile image61
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Phony and insincere? Yes, actually.



                    It probably rings more of honesty than saying you love them.



                    Sorry you feel that way, but your God speaks ill of me and others, He is offensive.



                    Because, there is no correlation between the two, obviously.



                    When, your God grows up and starts taking responsibility for his selfish and cruel behavior and starts respecting people, He might get the same in return.

                    Besides, I don't need your forgiveness, I didn't do anything to warrant needing it.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image61
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No, I don't think you do.



                We know what the truth is and it ain't love, baby.



                But, you don't love me, so we can get that straight.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What constitutes love for you? Agreement? We don't agree... if I heard you laid in a hospital bed in my own home town, would I come see you? I believe I would.
                  If your whole family abandoned you, would I give you an encouraging word, would I pray for you? I believe I would.
                  Do I care about your soul, whether you believe you have one or not? I know I do. So what constitutes love to you? What would you have me do? Agree? I don't. I never will.

        2. youcanwin profile image37
          youcanwinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          DW: Mr. Müller, as a analyst for the German aid organization Open Doors, which supports persecuted Christians worldwide, you observed that the five countries in which Christians are being persecuted the most are, first and foremost, North Korea, then Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia. Have these countries been on top of the list for years or have there been significant changes?

          Thomas Müller: You can basically say that this situation has been going on for years. For the eleventh consecutive time North Korea is in first place in our rankings of countries in which Christians are being persecuted and oppressed the most. And that isn't surprising considering what you hear from inside the country. It is understandable if people say: 'Wait, there are really Christians left there?' Yes, there are, but they have to go underground. As soon as they are found, they will most likely be sent to a labor camp or even worse.

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image61
            EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Christians don't own the monopoly on being persecuted in North Korea or any of the other countries mentioned.

      3. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Agree with you whole-heartedly.

    9. 0
      Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is real, and all atheists know it!  That is why they get so angry when you try to talk to them about it.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        We also get upset when Muslims talk about their beliefs. Is Islam real?

        1. 0
          Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No, it is not.  Muhummad says he saw the archangel Gabriel but it was really Satan.  If any being comes to you in a vision and they do not confess that Jesus is the son of God, then they are working for Satan.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You completely missed my point.

      2. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Oh Christianity is real; there are physical churches on every street corner, promoting their philosophy and myth while begging for money to extend their power and reach.

        But that does NOT mean that the underlying myth is real, just that the social entity of the church itself is.  Like the Elks Club or the Shriners - they, too, are very real.

      3. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        They don't know for sure but I think the thought of Jesus being the son of God may freak them out.

    10. 61
      idealisticposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The difference between the two religions is how they are portrayed and practiced. Yes, some Muslims have done things that are bad, but so have Christians.  The difference is that Christians are more active in their activities.  Also more laws are enacted based on Christian values and principles than Muslims.  Muslims may be more in your face with getting your attention,  but Christians try to force their beliefs by infusing them and weaving them  into society's standards

      1. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Welcome to Hubpages, Idealistic. 

        Interesting observations.

        1. 61
          idealisticposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you. I personally don't really think atheists focus more on one religion than another given my understanding that atheism is a general lack of belief in a deity and a disagreement with those who believe as well as a criticism of the acts committed by those who have a belief that negatively impacts society. I just think the biggest focus is on Christianity because Christianity has made itself the biggest focus given how it is represented.

    11. Jomine Jose profile image80
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Probably because atheists prefer being a living critic to a dead intellectual.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Forgive if I'm wrong, but do you think Christians are dead intellectuals?

        1. Jomine Jose profile image80
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't mean that. If you criticize islam you will probably be dead as illustrated by some recent controversies but nothing happens if you criticize Christianity.  So if atheists are intelligent people they will save their skin first.

    12. karthikkash profile image90
      karthikkashposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I think the main reason why Atheists are more opposed to Christianity is that the concept of Atheism was probably born as a anti-Christian movement. Though there are a lot of people who claim that they don't believe in god, it is only a later development. But, initially, the division came across as an opposition to the Christian version of god and Bible. Even today, the opposition to religion is firmly rooted in the Christian belief and not the version of god according to any other faith. There are very few who argue against any other faith in the world.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, Atheism is not an anti-Christian movement. We don't see people in Islamic countries speaking out against Islam because well that is a punishable by death. But when I get a change here to speak out against Islam I do. It's rather easy really. They are convince the earth is egg shaped and a man's sperm come somewhere in the back.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image61
        A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You might be correct in asserting that atheism grew from the Christian movement, but there atheists around long before Christianity, they didn't believe in the gods at that time. Of course, the difference from today is that no one stated publicly they are atheists back then.

      3. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
        Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The word atheism was used by a Roman Emperor to describe Christians, as they didn't believe in the gods.

        But I have a fragment from a Greek play dating to 600 BCE in which the playwright tells us he's an atheist and the gods are just convenient fiction to keep the masses in control.

        Atheists have existed as long as religion has existed.The trouble is most of the time the religious have felt that's a reason to kill them. That was true of Christianity not more than a couple hundred years ago, and would be again if democracy ever fell  to one Christian sect or the other.

        Of course they even kill each other if they are not the right brand of Christian, so I guess it's nothing against atheists as such. lol...

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Can you share the worst atheist slaughter by Christians, or some of them in the history you mention?  Then can you show how that means what you said, when you said, "Atheists have existed as long as religion has existed.  The trouble is most of the time the religious have felt that's a reason to kill them."   

          Its hard to know where to begin with what you say so casually here.  You say that today it would be the same if democracy fell to a Christian sect?  What kind of Christian sect would kill atheists?  Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, maybe their quilt group ladies with machine guns?  I can't think of a Christian sect off the top of my head that has anywhere in its teachings to do such a thing, and has the opposites though. 

          We actually have examples of huge mass murders in history carried out by people that lacked belief in a god or gods.  This isn't that long ago.  We know of Christians that spilled much of their own blood and didn't kill others including Jesus most of all, most of his apostles, then many of their followers.  There is still very severe Christian persecution going on everyday on our planet.  Its factual and horrifying, and it is BECAUSE they are Christians. 

          Also can you support your statement about Christians killing each other for not being the right brand of Christian? (Are you speaking of the Crusades?) What Christians are killing other brands of Christians?  I just wonder if your incredibly bold statements have any backing that you are willing to share here in the same thread where you posted this.  I heard you say a few times that you have studied history a lot, and so I am sure you have this information ready to share.  I am looking for both examples in history from its beginning to just over 200 years ago, or anywhere in there, AND the  REASONING of how those examples mean Christians will kill atheists again and each other now and in the future.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Time to educate yourself. You can start here.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

            1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If you care about people being murdered by those with power and different views, and you share evidence if occurances in history, then it isn't the Christian sects you and Slarty should be concerned with.  Going with sheer numbers and historical evidences even in just the last century, Slarty would not have said what he did about Christians.  What he said is horrifying.

              This leads me to believe this isn't just about caring about life lost to murder, but about going after a particular group. 

              You seem also to not really be either fully reading the posts or understanding them, then responding with stuff like this with how others need to get educated.  Your link makes my case, do you see how?

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No I don't see, you asked questions and I supplied the answers.

          2. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
            Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Catholics and Protestants fought a war for 300 years in Europe, each calling the other heretic and burning them. In some places the Protestants crucified the opposition on crosses. The Catholics wiped out many opposing factions along the way up until the Protestants. They killed pagans by the score as well and went witch hunting.

            But everyone's enemy, Rome's, the Christians, the Muslims, as well many pagans, is the atheist.

            They all fear and hate the atheist above all. Why? Well the Romans believed that if you believed in nothing at all the gods would be angry with Rome itself and make life bad.

            Even now in Christian forums many people tell me they don't trust atheists, wouldn't want their kids to go to school with them, wouldn't want to work beside them, would never vote for one etc, etc.

            Deny it all you like but even if your book doesn't say to hate atheists,which it does in many ways if not directly,  that's the way people have been practicing your and other religions for centuries.

            You need to do some history reading. When ever one religion or sect of Christianity comes to power everyone else suffers. Same in Islamic countries.  The only reason atheists are now free to be who they are is because you lost your power. In a democracy you don't count more than any one else.

            Here's hoping your two faced religion never gains political power again.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Amen to that!   However, we cannot take that as being in any way certain.   Belief comes into the equation every time.  There seems an inherent need in us humans to see products of the imagination as real.  We take far more notice of what "might" happen than in what has happened and what does happen in specific circumstances.

              For example, there is far more "belief" in the "dangers" from radiation when using a cell phone against one's ear, than any attention to the fact that many deaths and injuries arise from using a cell phone while driving a motor vehicle.  The latter is direct evidence that cell phones are a cause for worry, whereas the former has no tangible proof.

              When the question, "Are you superstitious?" was asked in a local newspaper, several years ago, one respondent replied:  "Oh no, I'm not superstitious, I'm Catholic!"   There is none so blind as them's that won't see.

              People who are religious, especially when proclaimed born again and saved from their follies, often find it difficult to face facts.

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That's why it is the responsibility of both Christian and atheist to see that no one destroys our secular societies. We have to be together on this.

                Funny that pagans developed democracy and that Christians adopted it and founded secularism and separation of church and state as a way to finally stop killing each other. Oceans doesn't seem to get that.

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I hope no regimes get back into power like we see in more recent history than you allude to.  The regimes that killed many more people that believed and thought differently from them, these regimes were led by people that lacked a belief in God.  THEY HAVE to be ignored in all these points you make, which makes my point. 

              My point is that if you are going to use history as your guide, to not turn a blind eye in your effort to demonize Christianity in particular.  We see how it has blinded people like yourself, it is very very obvious to the honest observer.   I take issue with your comment, "The only reason atheists are now free to be who they are is because you lost your power."  Are you referring to the Kings and Queens of England long ago there?  What in the world?

              Truth is, we all benefit from a democracy, and I don't see most people pushing for a theocracy.  Jesus didn't even do that when on earth.  I am for a pluralistic society where all can get along peacefully side by side.  You know what hinders or hurts that idea though?  The hateful rhetoric about Christians wanting to kill atheists then and now and accusing that they would do it again if they got the chance.  That one post, filled with unsupported slander of a whole group of people.  THAT, is not peace promoting at all.  It just seems very hateful, and without support.  Especially when the "evidence" you use hurts your case and helps the Christians case.   I never ever think I am better than anyone.  I AM glad you draw back from your "Christians want to kill atheists and each other" rhetoric, and now just accuse them of hating, which I am sure glad atheists never do to others.  I don't blame you for avoiding the killing topic, that was ridiculous and uncalled for. 

              My hope is that atheists everywhere will care about ALL of history, learn from it ALL, and not just what can be seen that supports a view they want to have of people they REALLY dislike if not hate.  I find what more often is ACTUALLY happening, is they feel this very real rage and hatred, and NEED to justify THAT somehow, without asking what would actually explain that odd response to just another group that believes differently.

              I think it all goes much much deeper.  Care about ALL that were killed and why and by whom, Slarty, not just the atheists and whether or not they are hated.  Care about ALL of history, and judge then, fairly.  That is not too much to ask, this should go without saying to a person that studies history.

      4. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There are two types of atheists.  Those who just don't believe like we don't believe in unicorns and then there are those who belong to a movement.  They make it a mission to deconvert Christians.I think it is true that atheists despise Christians the most particularly in the US.  They say it is because Christianity is shoved down their throats there.  They may not like Islam but Christianity is despised more. 

        I would disagree that there are only few who oppose other faiths.  Atheists don't like their faiths but Christianity is what they find the most disagreeable.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image61
          A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And, then there are those who belong to the unicorn movement, kind of like the sasquatch movement.

          Why don't you believe in unicorns? How about sasquatch's?

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The difference is that I just don't believe in unicorns like some atheists who don't believe in God yet drop it at that.  I am not part of a movement that attempts to discredit the existence of unicorns. 

            I believe in sasquatches, btw.  It may seem silly but I think it is an interdimensional being.  I am waiting for your laughs and scorn.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image61
              A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              In other words, you don't believe in unicorns because there is no evidence that unicorns exist in exactly the same way that atheists don't believe in God because there is no evidence God exists.

              See how that works?

               

              How about the movement that credits the existence of unicorns?



              Yes, that is pretty silly.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Totally ATM. Hey Man! smile I was starting to get worried.  Seemed you'd died after my last question to you... glad you're back!!! wink

              2. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Let's put it to you like this.  Are you 100% certain God doesn't exist? Answer honestly.  You also have to define what God is.  Now, are you 100% sure that unicorns don't exist? I don't believe in unicorns but there is no way I can say as absolute truth that they don't exist.  How can I?





                And those are?





                It seems silly because you have never considered the possibility.  You have been conditioned to believe it is silly.  If you grew up being told sasquatches may exist, then you will believe it is possible.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I am not part of a movement that attempts to discredit the existence of unicorns.  

              Oh Claire!!! smile Every Christian from now and forever should wear a t-shirt with this EXACT phrase. I wanna print it out and stick it all of our cars. I smell a trademark... Thank you.
              You have made my unbelievably wonderful morning,  wonderfuller. smile

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Are you saying that if unicorn worship was up to 80% of your country and they were pressing to get laws past that would allow for a tax on all non-unicorn believers to help pay for and open thousands of unicorn churches you would say that unicorns are BS?

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Absolutely.  I would not live in a place where laws were based on unicorns...

                  1. A Troubled Man profile image61
                    A Troubled Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    And, we don't want to live in a place where laws are based on magical sky daddies.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So you would become a vocal anti-unicorn supporter. Much like atheists here.

              2. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Lol.  Morning to you.  I think we should hand out those T-shirts at atheist gatherings for free.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Good idea! smile someone should start the presses. Lol...

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I don't despise anyone, sorry. I do despise extremism of any kind which includes some of what Sam Harris says.

          1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
            oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That seems very fair, and I am glad to hear that.

          2. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I mean in general, Rad Man.  Of course not all atheists despise Christians.  There are just some who are completely apathetic.

            I am encouraged, however, that you think extreme atheism is bad as of any other kind.

    13. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I realized I never answered this original question.  I would add that not only do many atheists do this, but many from other worldviews as well. Here is my answer, and I admit this is not going to be popular!  Everyone has a view though, and here is mine.

      I think the ongoing daily observations we see in this regard, is because Christianity is ACTUALLY true.  By Christianity, I mean the very simple gospel message of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. 

      Therefore, I think a lot of what could be termed "metaphysical" (one way to put it) is going on.  If you think about it, this would make sense of whatever is actually true.  Whatever IS true would get the attention, over even a more seemingly big threat like some have expressed.  We see a range from an almost visceral reaction to natural curiosity, and everything in between.  I think what we are observing is people trying to make sense of these thoughts and feelings inside while not really considering any other views than what they hold.  If they are wrong, whatever is ACTUALLY true needs to "go", even if by force.  This to me, explains the ones that seem to be on a mission. 

      Some actual and physical threats sometimes become front and center from other worldviews and some will even join forces when the ideas of being possibly killed (People joined together and dropped the criticisms during 9-11, Boston Bombings, etc.) .  At those times, the very same people would pick Christians to have their back and help to protect them as a collective.  (For a reason.)  Then its back to going after what I think is gone after because it is ACTUALLY true, and matters in a greater sense than just this life and death.  The daily devotion can be seen across many different platforms from the University lecture halls, to some scientists in labs, to real debates in halls to forums like this.  I believe there is a real cause and effect and something deeply intuitive is involved.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Excellent observation.  I believe people are naturally reminded of the truth in the back of their minds.  Some embrace it and others deny it.  I have yet to come across an atheist who says they know as 100% truth that Jesus isn't the son of God.  I think they are lying if they say not.

    14. Janice Marquis profile image60
      Janice Marquisposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Don't forget that America is 80% Christian and Canada is 75%...

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        Yeah, but Christians aren't threatening to chop people's heads off.

    15. Link10103 profile image81
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You answered your own question before you even finished it off...

      Can someone enlighten me as to what Muslims are trying to violently force their religion down "our" (who exactly?) throats? Last time I checked, it wasn't Islam that was preventing gay people in America from getting married due to a certain holy book...

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        Oh, I wasn't meaning only in America.  I'm South African. 

        Excerpt from below link:

        "In January, Muslim gangs were filmed loitering on streets in London and demanding that passersby conform to Islamic Sharia law. In a series of videos, the self-proclaimed vigilantes—who call themselves Muslim London Patrol—are seen abusing non-Muslim pedestrians and repeatedly shouting "this is a Muslim area."

        One video records the men shouting: "Allah is the greatest! Islam is here, whether you like it or not. We are here! We are here! What we need is Islam! What we need is Sharia!"

        http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4112/ … on-britain

        There are many Muslims who want Sharia law in America:

        http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/musl … ell-watch/

    16. LailaK profile image78
      LailaKposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Just a side note, I recently took a class in university about world religions. I discovered that groups like Al-Qaeda are terrorists, no different than Timothy Mcveigh, who claim to be religious and following Islam. In reality, Islam doesn't preach terrorism. And if you still believe it does, ask any Muslim person on the street and they'll tell you what they believe in. Unfortunately, media has presented misconceptions about an entire religion based on the horrid acts of several people like Al-Qaeda. To answer your question about atheists not saying anything against Islam, I think that maybe they've done a lot of research on it and read the Quran (holy book) and discovered that nothing in Islam preaches evil. Usually, before atheists take the decision to become atheists, they do a lot of research and educate themselves about all religions before they make the decision. And when they do not find peace with any religion, they choose to become atheists. That's what I think smile

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        Both the Quran and the Old Testament are violent and intolerant of foreigners and kill them.  Don't deny that.

    17. Nicole Hering profile image88
      Nicole Heringposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Many atheists in the United States know the most about Christianity since many are originally from family's that are Christians. They can therefore point out all the things they disagree with Christianity with the ability to back up their points with the basic knowledge they have of it. No atheist supports any religion so don't feel offended by it seeming like they dislike Christianity over Islam since that simply isn't the truth.

      1. Link10103 profile image81
        Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I've seen people attempt to justify Christianity being the one and only true religion simply because it is the main religion atheists (In the U.S.) go after.

        I never know if I should laugh or just shake my head...

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        It goes beyond protesting against the religion.  People progress to insulting Christ.  What does He have to do with Christians' behaviour?

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 19 months ago in reply to this

          People boot Jesus in the butt for the actions of those who claim to follow him because they don't know him.
          If they did, they'd know whose butt to boot.
          He said, "Follow me." Not, "Follow my followers."
          If we can come up with a good enough excuse, it's EASY to not humble thyself and change...
          Just imagine how many, "But THEY wasn't doing its" He'll hear, on that day...
          He'll only say, they have they're reward, now you will get yours."
          When we tell our children to behave as we say when we leave, we punish those who followed the orders of someone else.

    18. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Personally, I have no wish and no intention to offend or insult anyone:  God, in whatever name you wish to refer, people of Christian or Islam faith, fundamentalists of any persuasion, anyone.

      My focus is usually towards the person who decides that he/she knows what is best for me in my life; someone who has a self-appointed mission, backed up by a spurious belief system, which says he/she must "go out into the world and save souls for the Lord."    Rarely, if ever, have I heard or read such arrogance from a person who follows Islam.  Yet this is a common attitude that I hear from some christians.  It is utter arrogance!  It's like you know me better than I do myself, having never met me, never known my background in life.  All based upon your chosen interpretation of something in a book that primarily relates to people who lived 2000-5000 years ago.  Picking and choosing little bits of text, out of context, without fully understanding the historical and cultural background of those ancient people and their communities. 

      It's quite possible that you are a well-respected member of your community.  You have a heart of gold, do good works, love people, and have their best interests at heart.  Yet it's still possible for you to be addressing your ego in order to try and "save" me.

      Such christians have one objective:  to change ME and the way I live in such a way that it fits with their perceived correct view of life and morality.

      I cannot speak for others.   This is for me ..... and it's why you will never convert me to your religion.  Let me repeat, this is not intended to offend, but if it does maybe it is speaking directly to you in a way that pushes a button!

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Johnny, can we be reasonable; for a moment? How do you think you would fair, living in an Islamic theocracy? How would you be treated within an Islamic mosque? How would you prosper within any country whose government resides over a mostly Muslim population?

        As it stands at the moment in our lives, personal opinions can be discounted, debated and challenged. Our laws allow for debate over the equity of customs and behavior patterns driven by belief. Popular vote changes laws to be more inclusive, as the hearts of people change. But, when a great inequity is perceived our central government steps in to force equality, because we do support, first and foremost, the idea of fairness and equality. Our secular governments exist because of the will of the people. Islamic law is final. Its 'justice' harsh and driven by adherence to ancient writings with little to no room for modern attempts at interpretation. These laws exist by the will of the people.

        And unfortunately, the muslims I've talked to (practicing ones) have made it clear that this country, at least, would benefit by its citizens adopting Islam. Their comments are well meaning, but I can't help but cringe at the idea.

        I'd be curious to know how well you think your arguments would be received by fundamentalist muslims, as opposed to fundamentalist Christians.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, very fair comment, Emile R.  It's a dreadful thought that we human beings can be so mentally blind, that we put all our faith into a man-made set of imaginative judgments.  And, you are right, I would not survive for very long in such a vindictive culture of fundamentalism.  Also there is for sure an aspect of christianity that works for humanitarian goals.  We like to think it's a particularly christian one, far superior to people of other faiths/cultures.   However, I doubt this.   

          I believe that within most down-to-earth ordinary folk there is a foundation of goodness.  There is also an equally deep well of badness.   What tends to favour one aspect or the other is the nature of leadership.   When we allow bullying, either mental or physical or both, that badness will come to the surface and thrive.   It does not matter from which religious base that bullying comes;  bullying comes from an attitude of mind which is selfish, greedy, uncaring beyond one's own wants.  It's the same regardless of politics, religion, gender, sexual orientation, economics, etc. 

          The right leadership will make the difference.  It will steer people into good living, mutual caring, honesty and hope.  It will not support lies, hypocrisy, corrupt practice.  Bad leadership, on the other hand, will lead people into ugly lynch-mob reactions against minority groups, then turn round and blame the minority for daring to be out there asking for trouble.

          History tends to repeat itself and I have often wondered how I would (will) get the courage to stand up against the tyrant if/when it happens again in my lifetime.  Will I get out there and fight?  Or will I cower behind popular trends and preserve myself at the expense of others?  I don't know.

          I ramble on; there are several points here which depart from the main thread, but it might trigger more thoughts and contributions.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, when i think about moments in history where people are hurt, I wonder too if I would stand firm behind right; if that stance would threaten my well being. I do believe I would, but never know.

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        But why do people throw the baby out with the bath water? Why do atheists assume that Christian doctrines are wrong because of how they behave? I'm generalizing now.  The more someone hates Christianity, the more they close their mind to the possibility Jesus is the Son of God.

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 19 months ago in reply to this

          Personally, I don't regard Jesus as "The Son of God."  I don't consider the existence of "God" with a capital G.   
          Spiritual path can be followed via the Buddha, Christ, any figurehead that suits the individual's needs.  I respect those paths. 
          The poor examples of some who claim to be "christian" are what drives me further away from christianity.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

            But one shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.  It's easy to do that when Christians behave badly.  I always say, "Preach the gospel, use words if necessary."

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 19 months ago in reply to this

              "Preach the Gospel...."

              Does this not imply that I accept the notion of "original sin?"   The presumption that we are all "sinners," and have fallen out of grace with "God?"  That we are all basically imperfect and evil at heart as humans?

              I don't accept any of that.   In my view it's just a man-made device with which to control others along preconceived lines.   

              Without the premise of sin and belief in a supernatural god that lords it over us, I have no need of that Gospel.   This does not mean I lack morality, or that I am free to do any antisocial thing I please without any retribution from my fellows.  Yet it is, probably, the prime reason I reject christianity as I see it preached and promulgated.

        2. BuddiNsense profile image59
          BuddiNsenseposted 19 months ago in reply to this

          Christian doctrines are wrong because that doctrine that which are not copied from human morality are all nonsense.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            So this automatically proves that Jesus is not the son of God?

            1. BuddiNsense profile image59
              BuddiNsenseposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              That will not prove but the fact that god is not an animal to have children and family will prove.
              Incidentally, again, christians do not know what "son" means!

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                Doesn't make sense.

                1. BuddiNsense profile image59
                  BuddiNsenseposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  "He does not have a physical body to reproduce "
                  God cannot have a son, christians says otherwise.

        3. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 19 months ago in reply to this

          People don't want to change their mindset.  Jesus requires change with a capital C. It is a humbling thing to follow Christ.  People don't want humility. They like the way their own light looks just fine.
          Jesus has one mind. I cannot see him adjusting to compromise. He won't.
          The instructions are on the refrigerator and the consequences for disobeying. We're just waiting for dad to get back...

          1. janesix profile image59
            janesixposted 19 months ago in reply to this

            No, it's more like people just don't believe contradictory religious beliefs that don't make any rational sense.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 19 months ago in reply to this

              I've said that. smile
              People would rather believe, and make sense of, contradictory Scientific "evidence" that changes.
              Who's foolin' who???

              1. janesix profile image59
                janesixposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                I didn't say anything about scientific evidence here. I said religious beliefs don't make rational or logical sense. Any of them, including Jesus. Jesus is no more logical than Ganesh or Mithra.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                  Except that christians design their Jesus into the metaphor that individually suits their "take" on life; in the same way that the hindu views the metaphor of Ganesh.
                  The message behind the metaphor gets hidden. The metaphor becomes the focus of worship.  As a result the message can be distorted out of all recognition and comprehension.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                    Distorters will be dealt with...
                    The bible says that ALL will know and bow to what I've known for years, one day. I believe that.
                    No requirement that anyone else does. I read the instructions. The Lord knows what they said to me. Even if I deny it, and shut it out of my life forever... it doesn't go away.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                  Check this out: smile
                  Beliefs in anything other than a creationist perspective don't make rational or logical sense to me. (See how that works?)
                  It ALWAYS wraps right back around to, "something as marvelous as people, from nothing" no matter how many wheel revolutions they run...
                  What created me, must be smarter. Wayyyy smarter. Don't think I could attach a nose if I tried. Lol...

                  1. janesix profile image59
                    janesixposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                    When you come down to it, NOTHING makes logical sense. The only think that would make logical sense, to me, is if nothing existed at all.

                    But things do exist, so we have to come up with the most rational explanation for it. Either God poofed everything into existence, or things just exist on their own. Niether is al that logical to me. But adding an extra thing into the mix(god) seems more illogical to me. It seems unessessary.

          2. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Agreed.  Humility is required and a sacrifice of self will.

    19. Rich Emanon profile image60
      Rich Emanonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I have to agree with GenerationWKshop, at least about the extremist groups. They're all the same and their agenda is pretty much the same. Christianity and Islam both feel they have a right to run the world. Both feel like everyone else should share their religion. Both have been around since about the dark ages. And, both wreak major havoc on the world. I haven't seen where either christian nor islam has been any better or worse than the other.

      If anyone can prove me wrong, please, do so!

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

        Is Christianity wrecking havoc around the world? Can you give me an example?

        1. BuddiNsense profile image59
          BuddiNsenseposted 19 months ago in reply to this

          Christianity Is not wrecking havoc around the world but was...
          Now it is a dying religion.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Yes, Christianity will die out.  All religions will.  There will be a one world religion and that is Lucifer worship.

            1. BuddiNsense profile image59
              BuddiNsenseposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              Provided you mean lightbearer by Lucifer. If you mean it the otherway Christianity is actually worshipping it as god, so you are saying that Christianity will be one world religion.
              Incidentally, I notice that those societies that are well developed are becoming more atheistic.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                How can Christianity worship the devil? Well, the doctrines say it doesn't.  Christianity will not be a one world religion.  It would have been so by now.  You acknowledge it is a dying religion. 

                And the point is about developed societies being more atheistic? Some of the most brilliant minds in history have not been atheist.

                1. BuddiNsense profile image59
                  BuddiNsenseposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  Haven't you read the bible?

                  Most developed societies are NOW, not history. And society is not one person. So you didn't understand what  I was trying to say? Societies are becoming atheistic not worshipping anyone, let alone Lucifer.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    About a one world religion or devil worship?






                    But what is the point of this? The world is becoming worse morally.  What does that then say about atheism?

    20. 69
      paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The Atheists know that Christianity is based on the mythical creeds , it is therefore easy to strike it.

      Regards

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 21 months ago in reply to this

        And not Islam?

        1. Jomine Jose profile image80
          Jomine Joseposted 21 months ago in reply to this

          And not islam.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            What? Are you saying Islam is not based on mythical creed? Can you clarify, please?

            1. jgshorebird profile image85
              jgshorebirdposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              All religion is based upon mysticism, i.e., the blind belief in magic. The "River Gods" etc.

              If you speak out against the atrocities of the U.S. Government - you should be specific.

              Your former government has bad record too - how it treated in 'blacks' paled by comparison to the U.S.

              You ought to look around. China, Cuba, Russia, Syria, Iran, North Korea - now there are some atrocities.

              1. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Not Christianity.  It was not founded on mysticism or magic.  Yes, it was most certainly corrupted by the Catholic Church but Christianity's roots is from Jesus rising from the dead.

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Jesus rising from the dead IS magic. Unless you can prove it, or at least explain it scientifically.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                    The absence of empirical evidence is not called magic.  Magic is an occult practice.  God did not raise His son from the dead using spells.

                2. jgshorebird profile image85
                  jgshorebirdposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Where there is no evidence, but there is belief, there is 'faith' - blind belief. Therefore, I can imagine any number of Gods or none at all - if I was a mystic. Using your circular reasoning, I could posit that Mother Goose is God.

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 19 months ago in reply to this

                    Not exactly blind belief.  I'm not worshiping a God I am not sure exists.  That's a waste of time.  You can believe in Mother Goose if you want to.

    21. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
      HeadlyvonNogginposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Hi Claire. I've been arguing with a couple of people in this thread for a while now, way off topic of the original question. I thought it only right that I should actually address the topic of the thread. It's the least I could do.

      I think it's a simple matter of location. Most of us on these forums live in lands dominated by Christianity. If we lived in regions where Islam was the dominant religion then the forum topics would reflect that. People talk about what they know. most of us, Americans anyway, are really ignorant of Islam. But we all know Christianity. Most of us grew up in it. Families steeped in it.

      That's all I think it is.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Yes, but isn't Islam having a great effect in America? ISIS is considered a big threat to the US.

        1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
          HeadlyvonNogginposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          They are, but Christianity is still what people's everyday lives are effected by.Islam is still an international threat. Some other land. Christianity is here.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            So what if it is an everyday "threat"? They aren't going to attack America with a nuclear bomb or cyber attack!

    22. 0
      TheBizWhizposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Personally I think most atheists do not attack Islam because they either feel that it is not worth potentially losing their life over or they are not in a region with a lot of Muslims, therefore it is not worth the fight. Perhaps they also feel that Islam doesn't need any help destroying itself because general public perception is so negative while Christianity is thriving. With that said, my understand is that Islam is keeping its numbers up by recruiting fringe loners who have a desire to belong to something.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I personally have a few thoughts on this matter, not necessarily to push these thoughts, just to air them.

        First, I feel that any criticism of even fundamentalist Islamists today needs to be balanced against what apparently happened in various countries of Europe 3-4 centuries ago.  The witch hunts, capital punishment and methods of dispatch for some misdemeanour, even of very young persons.  Burning at the stake; breaking on the wheel; being hung drawn and quartered, the parts of the procedure being carried out while you might well be decidedly conscious.  Who are we to cry shame?

        Secondly, there seems to be one characteristic common to fundamentalist Christians and Islamist.... in fact any religion where believers can only think in extremes of irrationality.   It's all dependent upon belief in an invisible "God" that "looks down" upon humans to judge us for our sins.  We are supposed to Love and Obey that God, He who cannot be touched, or seen , or spoken to directly, only through the intermediary of a priest or a (possibly) fictitious person called Jesus, etc.  Without any of this belief and superstition there can be no lasting influence upon people's lives.   

        Belief that you will be blessed indescribably when you get to that "Heaven" is so primitive, so life-controlling, that it drives entire populations to perpetrate dreadful cruelty.

        Are you absolutely sure that it does not happen in the U.S.of A.? Do you not  consider it cruel to sentence a person to death then keep him/her locked up, waiting and waiting sometimes for years, before being executed?   

        Granted there has been and continues to be a lot of humanitarian altruism practised in the name of Christianity.  Many people of Islam also look after their own, surely.   I ask you a question:  Does much of the Christianity get practised for the sole purpose of recruiting more believers?  Hardly altruistic?

        If we want people of Islam to join with people of Christ, then how about everyone stops acting like we are superior.  Because right now we are not.  I see hypocrisy, self-righteousness, rank commercialism, selfishness and self-serving judgments, ostensibly in the name of "The Lord," giving the lie to Christian Goodness.

        I ramble on, but it's really up to every individual, on either side, to face up to home truths and Be the Change that We Want to Happen..

        1. 0
          TheBizWhizposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          jonny,
          First of all, I would like to thank you for your eloquent response. It is refreshing to find someone that will act the same way on the internet as they would in person.

          Next, while I agree with some of what you said, I would like to address a couple of your points.

          You said: "First, I feel that any criticism of even fundamentalist Islamists today needs to be balanced against what apparently happened in various countries of Europe 3-4 centuries ago.  The witch hunts, capital punishment and methods of dispatch for some misdemeanour, even of very young persons.  Burning at the stake; breaking on the wheel; being hung drawn and quartered, the parts of the procedure being carried out while you might well be decidedly conscious.  Who are we to cry shame?"

          While I will not deny that Christians did perform many atrocities in the name of Christ, I don't think it is fair to compare now to then because the world is a different place. Then was a time of feudalism, when kings did what they had to do to keep power. Imagine how thin a line it is for one man to control others just by the idea of divine right? We still have issues with a powerful minority controlling the masses, but we have come a long way since then. Serfs willingly gave up their free will just so they could be protected and not have to worry about neighbors invading while they were sleeping. Times have changed much and believe it or not, we are in much more stable times now.

          You said: "Are you absolutely sure that it does not happen in the U.S.of A.? Do you not  consider it cruel to sentence a person to death then keep him/her locked up, waiting and waiting sometimes for years, before being executed?"

          I do consider it cruel, but this is another issue because it is not done in the name of God, while jihad is done in the name of Allah. The only comparison can be that the majority of people living in this democracy (I assume you are referring to the US) are Christian and some justify capital punishment by using the Bible, the laws itself are not dictated by a theocracy.

          Last, you said:"I ramble on, but it's really up to every individual, on either side, to face up to home truths and Be the Change that We Want to Happen.."

          This I take issue with the most because you didn't ramble. You gave a very thoughtful response that led to a thought provoking discussion instead of an argument of general sweeping insults.

          I do agree that there are those that do wrong in the name of Jesus and go to extremes to judge and control others. I am not one to push my beliefs on anyone because I consider my self a searcher, not a finished product. I just happened to choose Catholicism as my discipline.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image87
            jonnycomelatelyposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Thank you for giving me "food for thought" as "feedback."

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Christianity is not thriving.  It's on the decline.  When another 9-11 happens, then people will feel the need to attack Muslims.  It is sad that people only care about things when it happens to them.

    23. adnaneah profile image60
      adnaneahposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I am a Muslim
      There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God
      invite to islam : http://goo.gl/6KXwH2

      1. BuddiNsense profile image59
        BuddiNsenseposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Spam

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        That is not true.  Allah is the supreme moon god and that Mohammed chose to transform into a monotheistic god.

    24. ncyp13 profile image59
      ncyp13posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      no please dont say that is rude none of the religioin teaches tyranny and cruelty every religion teach mercy for some lost misguided people you cant blame whole nation.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Absolutely not.  We cannot blame a whole nation, religion, culture, peoples for all the evil in the world.  None of us cannot deny that extreme Islam is awful and very dangerous.  Just like Christianity was back in the Middle Ages.   Both the Quran and the OT are very violent.

    25. Rafiq23 profile image85
      Rafiq23posted 16 months ago in reply to this

      It's a biased question. Think before you publish something on HubPages. There are many Muslims on HubPages and you are going to offend them.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        If they are offended, then they must leave.  There are plenty of hubs/forum threads that could potentially offend Christians.  Of course debating religion is going to offend some people.

    26. Misfit Chick profile image94
      Misfit Chickposted 13 months ago in reply to this

      Wow, I think this is a really good question; and I am glad to see that it has continued for so long... although we can get a little off track, can't we? ha!

      For some reason, discussions like this always end up with people arguing over whether Christianity and/or the bible is something you should believe in, or not. You can't convince people who 'don't believe like you' to believe differently - unless they want to. You can't just spout off facts or even personal experiences because every little thing is relative to each individual's own little universe.

      And that brings us to the point *I* want to make about this issue. In the US, our segment of the world is far more familiar with Christianity than we are with Islam - so someone like me who is a former Christian; tends to pick on Christians more because I can argue with them up one side and down the other about their silly concepts.

      I can't do that nearly as well with Islam. In fact, I can't - at all. Only someone who is very familiar with whatever religion they are trying to debunk - can actually debunk it. For as much good as it does us, ha!

      Still, I think that answers this question pretty well. No one is trying to force Islam onto us - in fact, 'our people' are afraid ofIslam and don't have to worry about droves of Americans converting to it.

      In America, if you are a Caucasian man or woman and some other religion besides Christian; then you are being eccentric and 'cool' (and are often rejected by your family). You take a HUGE risk as an American being any other religion than Christian.

      Maybe you don't have those issues to deal with in South America. Lucky you. smile

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 13 months ago in reply to this

        It's inevitable for everyone to go off track. smile

        I don't think you have to be very familiar with the Koran to debate a Muslim.  Start off with saying, "Why does the Koran say kill the infidels if Islam is such a peaceful religion?"  Quick internet searches can get a debate going.  It's harder, but can be done. 

        Christianity affects atheists more because the US is supposed to be influenced by Christianity. 

        You may be interested in this article:

        http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/Febr … S-Courts-/

        The tide is changing.  With the refugees coming into Europe, Islam is gaining ground.  In fact, in Germany, one woman demanded that she be treated only be a woman doctor.  The US is soon going to get refugees.  Islam is going to have a significant influence eventually.  Muslims can be quite intolerant of people of other religions.  A colleague of my mother implied my mother was the enemy because she was Christian. 

        It's interesting that you non Christians are taking a risk being a non believer.  That's insane.  I can't quite understand why atheists will speak ill of Christianity but atheists tend to throw the baby out with the bath water.   Because of their resentment of Christians, they believe somehow that means Jesus doesn't exist and the whole Bible is false.  People must not fall into that trap.

        The Christian Church has failed miserably.  Many Christians are bigoted and ignorant and do not practise what they preach.  They tend to put their heads in the sand and will lash out at anyone who challenges them.  I have been called an anti-Christ, Jezebel and a good candidate for hell.  All because I challenge Christianity.

        I will say that if I didn't know the Holy Spirit, I would abandon Christianity.  The Church appalls me by sidestepping the issue of evil, the constant recital of scriptures that aren't even true.  The stupidity of praying for God to change world leaders and not wondering why it doesn't happen.  I sit in church and get so annoyed and people baaing like sheep.  If you ask them if they agree with that scripture, I tell you, they would not.  And don't dare criticize the "holy" land of Israel. 

        I've quite frankly had enough.  The sad thing is that it is the fault of Christians that people leave the church. 

        We have a secular society in South Africa.  It used to be more Christian-oriented but not anymore.  I can't say that Christians are overbearing here.  We don't even get that many Jehovah's witnesses anymore.  Lol.

        1. Misfit Chick profile image94
          Misfit Chickposted 13 months ago in reply to this

          No, Christians (and every religion, in my opinion) need to do their research and find out where their holy book came from and why it was written. Atheists and agnostics do NOT 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'... It is a manmade book written ages ago to control masses of people. Christians are FORBIDDEN to question it; much less 'do their own research' because they 'might be led astray'. Using their own brains is highly discouraged.

          This is why they are a bunch of sheep and it is why we target them. I believe it when you say that a Muslim suggested that your mother was an enemy because she was Christian. Muslims do not like Christians anymore than they like Jews. And sure you can argue with a Muslim about their religion without knowing much about it. But at that level, you really are not arguing to change someone's mind, are you? You're just fighting with each other.

          All three religions view themselves as the 'the one' - and anyone who does not believe that particular way is simply not a person to be respected. Religions are Godless. Why would you continue to go to church if you can't stand how the people around you act?

          1. HeadlyvonNoggin profile image86
            HeadlyvonNogginposted 13 months ago in reply to this

            It's interesting that you first suggest Christians need to do their research and find out where their holy book came from and why it was written, then you make the claim that it's a book written to control masses of people. I've done the research and have never come across evidence to suggest what you're suggesting. You are in that very statement throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

            I agree with you that Christians should do the research. I'm a Christian and I have. I didn't much get along in church environments because I'm inquisitive and critical. And you're right, it's discouraged. The church, like the bible, is man-made. It's an organization that's put itself in a place of authority as far as what's right. Their particular interpretations of the texts are the only ones allowed. All else is heresy.

            Which, by the way, I think it can be said that atheists in general are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The baby in this case being God and the bathwater being religion. Religion is man-made. According to the story, humans are the one thing in all of God's creation that don't behave according to His will. So religion and humanity in general is the last place you want to look to determine anything about God. Yet atheism is the lack of belief in God. It's not specific to religion, but to the core ideology. The baby. It all gets tossed, yet it's most often done while criticizing the bath water/religion and in justifying what it should be tossed out. So yeah, that's pretty accurate.

            But I find it exceedingly hard to believe that someone such as yourself, whose clearly also critical and inquisitive, could come away with that conclusion as if it's a plausible explanation. The books of the bible were written over the course of numerous centuries, by a vast array of different writers in different ages and situations. To suggest that it's the world's oldest and most successful form of propaganda isn't reasonable. That would take a consorted effort to accomplish if it were deliberate. Each writer would have to be working towards that end for the texts to be there to then be compiled into something that could fool such a large part of the human population throughout every age of human history.

            It's good to be critical, but criticism should cut both ways. You should criticize your own conclusions as much as you criticize others. Is what you're suggesting truly feasible?

          2. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 13 months ago in reply to this
    27. 20
      peter565posted 13 months ago in reply to this

      Most western nations are of the Christian majority.  Not Muslim.  If Christian extremists group decide to use radical methods, to achieve their goal, like the Taliban, does.  The Christian extremists would pose a much bigger threat, then Muslim extremists.  And it would happen.

      For example, despite the governing Saudi royal family, are liberals, there are many Muslims in Saudi, go around lobby government under the name "it is a sin", just like how many, Christians in western nations go around lobbying government under the name "it is a sin".  In Saudi, the government usually give in to the pressure, to a certain extent, to keep peace.  That is why Saudi Arabia have such a strict Sharia law.  Ultimately, it is those people who are lobbying government under the name of "it is a sin" that eventually went to join Taliban and Al Quida.  And conduct raids on girl schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, because they felt letting girl study is a sin.  Therefore, it is the exact reason, why we need to be concern about Christian groups going around lobbying government under the name "it is a sin", the fact there are not yet a Christian version of Taliban, don't mean it won't emerge someday.  And when it emerged and is can become a recongizable force, like the Taliban, image how many Christian extremists are going to join them.  Already, many of them want to overthrow the current government, to enforce Christian religious law, especially after the US recognized gay marriage.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 13 months ago in reply to this
    28. My Esoteric profile image89
      My Esotericposted 13 months ago in reply to this

      Because it is Christianity in America that is most vocal in trying to vilify and eliminate atheism.

      1. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 13 months ago in reply to this

        How does the villianization of atheists negate the credibility of the Bible?  For example, a disgruntled atheism somehow thinks Jesus didn't exist just because they are disillusioned with the church.  I do understand, however, why an atheist would confront a Christian on their behaviour.  Challenging the scriptures is good but atheists tend to throw it all out.

        1. Misfit Chick profile image94
          Misfit Chickposted 13 months ago in reply to this

          They throw it out because the majority of it is man-written bs; and the few 'truths' that are within it are not anything that cannot be found elsewhere in much older manuscripts that the bible stole from. Why would you want to follow such a manipulative, lying book? Of course it all gets thrown out. If I haven't already said it in here yet; stop believing what you've been told and do your own research on that book; where the 'stories' in it came from and most importantly WHY it was written. This is the 21st Century and all of us can read and do our own research now. We owe it to both ourselves and God to get to the bottom of the truth about him. Btw, I'm not Athiest, I'm Agnostic.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 13 months ago in reply to this

            Can you give me the examples of what is bs and the full truths there are that don't feature in old manuscripts?

            My relationship with the Holy Spirit does not depend on the Bible.  I've rejected a lot of it.  If I see false things, or just plain lying, I throw it out.  It is fallacious to dismiss the whole Bible just because there are just some things in there that are false.  I've done a lot of research and that is why I see there is a lot of false things.   Tell me where the stories come from. 

            I 100% agree with you.  We need to do our own research and rely on discernment.  We cannot just believe in something just because it is written in the Bible.

  2. 0
    Emile Rposted 3 years ago

    Fear prohibits their speaking out against Islam. Their fear of Islam also drives their outspoken disdain of Christianity. I think, the Western inability to fathom the violence currently associated with Islam has the few attempting to find a neat little package to tie it into. So they lump religion together and speak out where they won't fear the repercussions. This scares me since, if they break the back of Christianity they could push the faithful within those ranks into the arms of Islam.

    1. My Esoteric profile image89
      My Esotericposted 13 months ago in reply to this

      Fear of Christian retribution made me keep my non-Christian belief to myself while working in the DoD at the height of the rivaval of fundamentalist Christianity in American society and gov't.

  3. peeples profile image89
    peeplesposted 3 years ago

    Muslims don't knock on my door and tell me I am going to hell. Muslims are NOT trying to force their beliefs down my throat. A few radical Muslims don't speak for the majority. However it seems the majority of Christians believe that it is their job to tell me I have no morals, am going to hell, and am somehow a bad person. I have to hide the fact I am atheist in most circumstances, not because of Muslims, but because of Christians.
    Al Qaeda is not my enemy, neither are Christians for that matter.
    I am well aware of the violence in many Muslim nations. I am also aware of the fact that very little of it actually has to do with the faith. The Qur'an teaches the same lessons the bible does and included in that is to love others and not to kill.

    1. Claire Evans profile image91
      Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You have heard that in England Muslims are bullying others to convert to Islam?  We have the Kenyan mall massacre where Muslims killed non Muslims.  They pulled out their fingernails, hung them on hooks, gorged their eyes out and raped them.  Does anyone do that in the name of Christianity? You think just because Christians bug you then they are the only ones worth speaking out against?  Speak out against the misery extreme Islam is causing around the world. It is a fact that the Koran orders the killings of infidels so it does have something to do with the faith.

      1. Josak profile image58
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

        "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

        Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

        If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

        AND ESPECIALLY THIS:

        Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

        So the bible says to kill infidels too.

        Both Islam and Christianity have a very long history of oppression and forcing their faith and beliefs on others, it continues to this day on both sides. The hypocrisy of pointing to the other and saying "Oh yeah well they are worse" is just laughable, get your own house in order first then try to fix someone else's.

        1. Claire Evans profile image91
          Claire Evansposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If you read the literal translation of the OT then you will realize that "God" are actually extra terrestrials.  It's not God the father of Jesus. 

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4MXLB6S … CJxw1wDtoq

          Is Jesus compatible with the God described in the above verses you posted? Did He allow stoning? Did He sanction murder? No, He said those who live by the sword die by the sword.

          1. Oztinato profile image81
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Correct Claire.
            This point about JC is always deliberately overlooked by atheists.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              We overlook the fact that the God of the OT was an alien?

              1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                Surprised?

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, of course not.  He is not human, and is known to originate in a completely different "universe" (if the word even applies to His home "place")

              2. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
                Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I've known that for years. Like I told Headly in an other thread, the flood is a story about aliens doing genetic experiments with humans and their attempt to correct a mistake they made. lol... God here being an alien commander and his crew the sons who mated with human woman.

                Gotta watch that kind of thing when we go into space. Bring woman.... No telling what kind of alien ape we might be attracted to. wink

              3. janesix profile image59
                janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You forget that Claire also believes in the Illuminati NWO Agenda. I'm not surprised she believes God is an alien as well.

            2. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
              Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah....lol... I'd say most Christians overlook that one too. It's easy to see why.

          2. Oztinato profile image81
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No, the bit about not killing others.

            1. Claire Evans profile image91
              Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Please clarify because Jesus is not compatible with God in the OT.  God slew the Jew's enemies.  However, Jesus never ordered the killing of His enemies.

              1. Jomine Jose profile image80
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Only roasting them in eternal fire.

                1. Claire Evans profile image91
                  Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You mean Jesus roasting them with eternal fire? No, the evil do that to themselves.  They choose hell.  Jesus can't force one to renounce sin.  Hell is the complete separation from God.  Hell is a spiritual state.  Burning fire is just symbolic.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So the evil choose something besides eternal boredom, sitting at God's feet.

                    They do NOT create hell, do NOT create the fires or the demons, do NOT create nor voluntarily use the tortures of Hell on themselves.  That is done by someone else; the god that allows one of His own creatures to do as he wishes.

                    For the best thinkers of past generations have decided the fires of Hell are very real, very hurtful.  Where do you get the information they are wrong and Satan isn't causing those in Hell great pain?

                  2. Jomine Jose profile image80
                    Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What is so bad about being separate from god?

                2. Claire Evans profile image91
                  Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Does Jesus roast people in hell? Please provide the scriptures.  I know which ones you will post and I will explain when you do.