jump to last post 1-9 of 9 discussions (201 posts)

Do you believe that we are really spiritual beings dwelling in a body?

  1. Authorkat profile image59
    Authorkatposted 3 years ago

    When I was a child I often wondered where the sun and moon went and why the birds could fly and I couldn't.  As an adult I often wonder where the dead go when they (that which is beyond the heavens) die and why do they have to die?  Is there something more to the Bible than the words that we read?  Is there a spiritual world that we know nothing of?  Are there spirits around us, both good and evil?  What are your thoughts about the soul, the spirit, the flesh, the mind, the heart.  What do you think? Is any of this real or is it merely a dream?

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I always explained it to my kids this way:
      Cars have drivers. When a car gets old, it breaks down. The driver doesn't stay in the car, he gets out and moves on. Obviously, our souls are the drivers, our bodies are the cars.

      I do not believe souls walk the earth when they die. I believe they simply go to sleep (I Thess 4:13-18) and that Christ will call all of the living and the dead to him at one time (and we will all meet him in the air) then on to the judgement. (II Cor 5:10)
      On that day we will be asked to give an account for our lives (Rm 14:12). According the the Bible, God will say, "Welcome home, my good and faithful child." Or He will say, "Away from me, I never knew you." (Rev 1:12-18)

      As far as the good and evil spirits, I believe those are only angels (Heb 1:14) and demons. (I Tim 4:1)
      I believe we feel very connected to this life... the next seems like a dream, but one day, the next life will be a reality and it is this life that will be like a dream. (I Cor 13:12)

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        What happens to the driver in a head on collision with another car?

        Btw, I hope your kids never take a biology class. wink

      2. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        What happens to Alzheimer patients? Where the car in fine, but the driver can't remember where he is going or who his children are? After death does he suddenly have all the memories that his brain has forgotten? What about a baby, do they go to heaven without having any concept of who they are?

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So you don't believe a soul is possible. That's ok, but Beth isn't so far off track, imo, if souls exist.

          If a soul exists and it is a separate part of you....detached, yet interacting; what we could be seeing in cases such as brain injury, Alzheimers, and myriad other disorders is simply the vehicle malfunctioning while the interacting soul is unable to compensate. If you drive a car with a horrible front end alignment coupled with spark plugs misfiring (I'm not mechanically inclined, so please bear with me) and maybe a radiator with little water you may look as if you have trouble driving. You know yourself to be an excellent driver, others remember you were an excellent driver, but the evidence of your ability to drive is now absent.

          This is one reason why we believe that even those who have ceased to display the ability to function and/or think in a manner we traditionally label as human are still due care in a manner indicative of their humanity. Somewhere inside we believe it is possible that they are still aware.

          I, personally, believe some level of awareness extends beyond death which means there is some part of each of us which cannot be influenced by aging or accidents or genetic flaws. I haven't seen evidence that we have learned enough about existence to negate the idea of such. I suppose most of the assumptions made as to what is entailed in such an existence can be viewed as imagined bs but the core assumption is based on enough circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to warrant continued open mindedness.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What circumstantial and anecdotal evidence?

            If you have something that doesn't line up with what science knows I'd sure like to hear it.

            Here is what we do know. When the brain is shut down during surgery consciousness goes away. When someone suffers a head injured all kinds of thing may happen that can alter personality and consciousness. Thoughts can be altered using chemicals and electricity. Babies aren't born self aware, they develop it as their brains develop. Brain chemistry affects personality and disorders.

            No soul has ever been shown to exist despite the extensive search. The human model of thought works fine without a soul so we can use Occam's razor to eliminate the complications of a soul until it's shown to exist.

            Essentially the soul is something we are told we have as young children so we are accustomed to the concept. But if one steps back and looks at the concept critically it starts to look rather silly and it contradicts what now is understood about the brain.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree, of course. Occham's razor would imply (in my mind) that the history of humanity wouldn't by lying about experience. That a short period of study would not negate thousands of years of anecdotal evidence used to accept something as a mystery.

              I'm not saying i know, beyond a shadow of doubt, that there is anything more. All I'm saying is that we can't currently difinitively rule it out. I can't minimize the experience of others, to that extent. I can view statements made as to the meaning of experience and determine them to be fallacious but that doesn't necessarily imply (in my mind) that there was no experience.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Every study ever done on out of body experiences have come up negative. A few thousand years ago when the idea of a soul was thought up, and it was just that thought up People didn't have any understand of anatomy let alone the functions of the brain. One has to look at what can be studied and the soul is undetectable just as God is, but all of the souls functions can be explained with what we do know about the brain.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No. We can mimic things claimed. We can't say we know, beyond a shadow of doubt, that we are creating the same experience. We will never agree. But, the jury remains out; in my mind.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So people can make any claims they want and you won't question their statements. What happens when someone claims they speak directly to God? You don't question them, but you question anyone who questions them? Because that's what you are doing now. You seem to be saying I'm wrong for questioning anyone who makes a claim. You are questioning the person who's questioning the claim that no evidence supports and all evidence refutes.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You are not using Occhams Razor correctly because you are adding more levels of confusion and questioning that aren't supported by any evidence.

          2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But, it has reached a stage of open mindedness from those making the claims in which brains have fallen out.

    2. JG11Bravo profile image94
      JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
      - Hamlet

      Spirituality and the like have never been my thing, but that doesn't mean that I discount them.  Every revelation we (humanity on the whole) have raises a dozen more questions, after all.  While I may not leap on the religious wagon, I do believe that there are more mysteries in the world than we will ever be able to comprehend.  There have been numerous studies on the concept of the soul, chi, and other "life-force" concepts, everything from weighing a man at the instant of his death to thermal and electromagnetic analysis of Shaolin monks during practice, and I find the results intriguing.

      In case you're not already aware, the weighing the dead man thing did in fact yield a reduction in weight though the methodology of the experiment has been questioned and criticized ever since, and those monks do in fact show visible and noticeable changes in the areas that their practice targets.  I'll spare everyone the details, though.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That sounds like an interesting read. Do you have a link?

        1. JG11Bravo profile image94
          JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I'd have to track something down, I saw both experiments in respective documentaries.  Duncan McDougal was the physician who conducted the experiment on the soul back in 1907, as for the Shaolin thing, they took thermal and electromagnetic data on the limbs that the monks were supposed to be channeling their chi into and saw appreciable spikes in the targeted areas.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The mind is a powerful thing, especially in how it affects our body.

            1. JG11Bravo profile image94
              JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Undoubtedly.  The results are pretty undeniable, and the Shaolin monks are among my favorite examples.  Supernatural or not, through training and discipline they are able to do absolutely astonishing things that common knowledge dictates should be completely impossible without severe injury or death.  Once you've watched a man bend a pair of spears by walking against the points with his throat without so much as a scratch, you can't help but wonder if there isn't something to the whole "chi" thing.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                smile

      2. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The only results I've ever seen from weighing a dying person were all negative - there was no change detectable before/after death.

        The Shaolin priests do sound very interesting, but nothing to do with the supernatural.  By definition, if results of their meditation can be measured it is not supernatural.  Just as you say, the mind is a very powerful instrument and can exert control over our bodies far beyond what most people are aware of.

        1. JG11Bravo profile image94
          JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I'm rather sure that McDougal did measure a reduction in weight, but I could be wrong.  I know there was a lot of talk about his method being flawed, perhaps they came across something he screwed up that I'm not aware of.

          I bring up the Shaolin monks because while the scientific analysis may not be spiritual, the practice itself as they see it certainly is.  Seeing those appreciable scientific results doesn't change that, it just validates that yes, there is something going on.  I never said anything about supernatural.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            A matter of interpretation or semantics. 

            Supernatural = spiritual = not of this universe.  Things or actions taking place outside our "natural" universe - defined as undetectable because we cannot leave the universe until death.

            1. JG11Bravo profile image94
              JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Supernatural - Unexplainable by natural law, beyond what is natural.

              Spiritual - Pertaining or related to the spirit.

              If the idea of the soul, chi, or what have you is, in fact, a real thing (which is the question originally posed), then it would not qualify as supernatural because it would be a valid part of natural law.  It would, however, still be spiritual.

              That's all I'm saying on the subject.  The poster had a point in bringing up this subject, and I'm fairly certain it wasn't squabbling over semantics.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                No, it wasn't squabbling over semantics that the OP had in mind.  And we do, after all, have basically the same thing to say, just use different terms.

                I only brought it up as an explanation of my meaning, an effort to promote understanding rather than a shutdown of "You're wrong!".  And along those lines, I've come to understand (or think I do) that most people view spiritual things as unnatural, not of this world or nature.  As arising from somewhere else and not following natural laws.  Whether the Shaolin have this view I don't know - from what you say they do not.

                1. JG11Bravo profile image94
                  JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I misinterpreted then, and I apologize if I came off confrontational on the subject.

                  The Shaolin and other philosophies that embrace the idea of chi, qi, etc. do accept is as incorporeal, they believe that it an integral part of all life.  So, from that perspective you can see how there would be a differentiation between spiritual and supernatural.  It seems to be an east vs. west thing.

                  1. 0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't always agree with you, but I just want to say that I really, really like your style in conversational debate.  I hope mine is similar.

                    smile

          2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Weight is a product of gravity, without gravity, we only have mass. In space, for example we are weightless. If there is indeed a reduction in weight, there would have to be a mass and gravity would have an effect on that mass, which means scientists would be able to detect the mass.

            Have scientists ever detected such a mass of soul or spirit?

            1. JG11Bravo profile image94
              JG11Bravoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The only time I know of that being performed is the aforementioned McDougal study in 1907.  Wilderness has only come upon negative results, I've seen that McDougal himself got positive results but that his test methods were questioned and as a result the experiment was largely invalidated.

            2. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The odd thing is that as far as I know, gravity (measured as weight) is the effect of attraction between two physical masses.  Not a mass and energy or anything else.  Just two masses.

              So why weigh anything?  If the soul is a physical mass, we could see it leave, we could seal the room before death and it would remain in the room.  We can SEE mass - no need for great machinations or imaginative constructions for the "soul".  If a little one inch cube detaches at death and scurries across the floor or floats up into the sky, we can see it go.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Gravity does indeed have an effect on energy and mass, because mass and energy are equivalent: e=mc^2.



                Exactly, not only that, but if gravity has an effect on souls or spirits, they would not be able to float, they would be bound to the earth like everything else in a gravitational field. They would be made up of particles and could easily be detected by any number of methods.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Um, you're right - gravity not only bends and warps time but light as well.  But light is not energy in the supernatural sense, and photons (light) DO have mass.  At least in the resting stage - maybe that's the portion of such energy that is affected by gravity.  Whatever it is that causes light to have mass.

                  From another thread,
                  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/117947#post2504871
                  it seems that heaven is the ball of spinning, molten ball of iron at the core of the earth.  Material souls can then sink to the core, taking billions of years to do so through the mechanism of plate tectonics.  Just toss them on the ground and they'll end up deep underground, just as all those animal corpses did that now make up our oil fields.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Photons are never at rest and don't have a mass. If and when a photon becomes "at rest" it disappears altogether and it's energy is absorbed into a mass.

                    Gravity warps the space in and around objects, that is why we don't feel any forces acting upon us when we are in free fall in a gravitational field, the same goes with light, which instead begins to gain energy moving towards a gravitational "well" and loses energy moving away from it. This can be observed when that light moves towards the blue spectrum and red spectrum.

      3. 0
        Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        In case you're not already aware, the weighing of the dead thing has never been repeated. We have to just take his word. Further for a soul to have weight it would have to be a body part that leaves when we die. I've unfortunately watch people die and can tell you no body parts fly off.

        Don't believe everything you see on TV. David Blain doesn't really float, although he has editors that make him look like he does.

    3. r-o-y profile image82
      r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I do believe we are both physical and spiritual beings, one thing I know for sure is that the conciseness can and does function separate from the body and that this non-physical part of us separates at death and must go to its proper dwelling place. This is confirmed by the apostle Paul who said “to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ’” Paul says that when one belongs to Christ he goes to be with the Lord at the moment of death.

      The body goes to its proper place which is back to which it came, back to dust. The spirit being that once lived in the house we call the body cannot go to dust because it and is not made of dust. So the physical body returns to the physical elements of the earth from which it came [the earth] so must the spirit part of man return to the elements from which it came. 

      According to scripture, when a man dies, his body returns to the earth, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

      Even though the two bodies separate at death they must be reunited again, now the bible doesn’t states that all the spirits that returns to God will dwell in the presence of God. All return to God for judgment [the word all wrong doers hate] JUDGEMENT!

      All spirits returns to God for judgment!

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Wrong doers? Like lying about what one knows for sure?

        1. r-o-y profile image82
          r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So you’re your first respond is to call me a liar, how do you know I’m lying? Because you are not experiencing something does not mean it’s not happening. Many people have seen their spirit leave their body.

          I have practice in the pass, the satanic art of Astral Projection, and know that this game is for real.  What I would like from you is for you to show from your great wisdom where I’m lying and your evidence to convince that I’m lying. 

          Please explain!

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Hmmm, reading comprehension problems as well? Sorry, if you will read it again you will see I didn't call you a liar.

            You are making the claim so you need to supply the evidence and your word is not evidence. All experiments on out of body experiences have come up empty. Simply because you experience something doesn't mean the experience is authentic. I experience dreams every night, but I know they are only dreams. I have has an out of body experiences, but I understand it was simply an experience.

            I'll wait for your evidence.

            1. r-o-y profile image82
              r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              “Wrongdoers? Like lying about what one knows for sure?”
              It is clearely stated what you meant; it is you who have a problem understanding your own writing.

              If you can stand in the corner of your bedroom and look at your sleeping body across the room on the bed snoring and take the test that prove you are not dreaming than you know you are not dreaming, there are simple test one make to prove to themselves they are not dreaming.

              The fact that you don’t even know that this state exist, proves you are working from a state of ignorance, at least on this point. It’s common knowledge now that people do leave their bodies and it’s not a dream, even science admits as much now, they can’t explain it, but they know it’s happening.

              If you think what happened to you was a dream than you didn’t have an outer-body experience, you just had a dream of being out of your body. There is no confusing the true out of body experience with a dream.

              Since it is obvious that you have no idea about what you are saying allow me to explain the process of the true outer-body experience:

              First of all the true outer-body experience start from the awake state and the person is fully aware that they are about to leave their body. The first thing to happen is that the person gets a ringing in their ears or it can be a swooshing sound in their ears. As this ringing sound get louder and louder the person is fully aware of what’s taking place and is wide awake, they began to experience paralysis.

              You sit there wide awake, struggling to move but you can’t move because the spirit being that animates the body exits the body. They are now entering the spirit realm and have forced themselves into a place that they do not belong. I was offered money from a major Bio-feedback company just to study me and the world of the occult.

              I proved to them that I could do it, as many others have; bio-feedback is an occult practice that can produce the outer body experience. Go on and laugh and make jokes, but while you laugh at me the people at many of these bio-feedback companies are laughing at how gullible the general public really is.

              Even the military is trying to perfect this outer-body experience to be used as a weapon. If they could control this power they would be able to send this disincarnated being into enemy headquarters and know all their plans, even the military is laughing at you and the public for being so easy to deceive.

              In fact the great religion of our day is one of spirits entering and exiting of these houses we call our bodies.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That is false, science does not acknowledge out of body experiences and it is not common knowledge.



                That company would have published those results and we would all know about it, yet nothing has ever been published by any company that has shown to be valid.



                No, it isn't.

                1. r-o-y profile image82
                  r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  stop and think, do you actually believe that this company if they are into something as questionable as dabbling into the occult for military purposes would tell you what they are doing.

                  do you believe that everything that's published is true. just because a company publishes something its true, if so you'll in a lot of trouble!

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    But, they told you, right?



                    I don't believe what you claim, I haven't seen any of those company publications, but you can show them to us, if you want.

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I said "one" not you. Reading comprehension problems.


                I'm still waiting for that evidence. My out of body experience was exactly as you described, however I understand that it wasn't real. For one, you need eyes to see and two all studies that have been done one people who claim to have experience them never ever supply evidence even when the evidence has been hidden. You can make all the ridiculous claims you like and you may in fact fool some of the very gullible, but not me.

          2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Correction, that is what they believe, that may not be what actually occurred.



            Astral Projection has never been shown to be real, by anyone. You would be the first and there is a million dollar prize waiting for you with James Randi as well as a Nobel Prize for discovering something no one else has discovered.

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The consciousness is part of the brain, so it isn't spiritual, non-physical nor separate from the body, it is indeed part of us and dies along with the body at death.



        Obviously, Paul knew nothing about biology.



        Does that mean you know what "spirits" are made of? Please enlighten us.



        That's a nice idea, but it lacks evidence, and we certainly can't take your word or Paul's.

        1. r-o-y profile image82
          r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Correction, it’s been proven that something leaves the person and can gather information from sources across the ocean which is impossible to explain.  Because something can’t be proven to all people to exist does not mean that it does not exist. You haven prove that it doesn’t exist. So astral projection never been proven to be real, it also has not been proven to be not real.

          Where is your proof that’s it’s not real?

          How can you prove that conciseness is just part of the brain, you can’t, but yet you expect me to prove every word that I utter! Where is the proof that everything dies when the body dies?  Maybe Paul knew nothing about biology, but you show that you know nothing about spiritual matters.

          The whole world believe in evolution and there’s no evidence of it anywhere, where’s the proof. Where it the proof of anything you are saying. They tell you they’ve found a planet billions of light-years away and most of the world believes this without any evidence of this, where’s the proof.

          Whenever the things of God come up everybody wants proof of his existence, yet they need no proof when it comes to believing the wild claims of science.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You ARE aware that simply claiming proof exists is not the same as producing it?  And that such claims are a dime a dozen and not worth the paper they're written on?

            The claim is that there is proof of out of body experience - link, please?

            1. r-o-y profile image82
              r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              what's all this talk of proving something that will never be convincing all people of anything? you prove to me that I'm wrong!

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You made the claim; the onus is on you to prove it right, not anyone else to prove it wrong or it is somehow to be considered true.

          2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
            EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No, that hasn't been proven, sorry.



            Yes, that is exactly what it means, all people would know.



            The onus is on the ones making the positive claim to produce evidence, none has ever been produced.



            Are you talking about consciousness or conciseness?

            Consciousness is the brain, it's how the brain works. This is common knowledge.



            You don't know anything about spiritual matters, either, no one does.



            There are mountains of evidence for evolution. It's very easy to find.

            1. r-o-y profile image82
              r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              show me your evidence for evolution.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this
                1. r-o-y profile image82
                  r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, you go and get your proof of evolution since you are so bent on proving everything! you made the claim, now prove it!

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I told you there is a lot of information about evolution and provided some for you.

            2. r-o-y profile image82
              r-o-yposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I'm still waiting for that evidence for evolution!

    4. Ceegen profile image85
      Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "Is there something more to the Bible than the words that we read?"

      Of course there is, but wisdom and understanding comes from the Lord.

      "Is there a spiritual world that we know nothing of?"

      Yep.

      "Are there spirits around us, both good and evil?"

      Yes.

      "What are your thoughts about the soul, the spirit, the flesh, the mind, the heart."

      Trust in the Lord and love God with every fiber of your being, and lean not unto your own understanding. (Deuteronomy 6:5 & Proverbs 3:5).

      "What do you think? Is any of this real or is it merely a dream?"

      This is not a dream, and the closer to death you get, the more you realize there was always more you could have done for the Lord.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sounds strangely like something someone would say to manipulate you into doing things you know are not right.

        If I were to do that I'd never show my children any affection and beat them often. I'd stone my neighbour for working on Sunday and kill my daughter is she wasn't found to not be a virgin on her weeding night.

        1. Ceegen profile image85
          Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Whatever you say.

      2. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Why?  Why do you claim there are spirits and another, spiritual, world?  What tests have you made, what have you seen that leaves you with that opinion?  What evidence can you provide others that they might independently come to the same conclusion?

        As far as the dream, as we get closer to death we don't realize how much more we could have done for the Lord, we become more and more scared of our own demise.  For some reason, we seem to demand that we live forever but at the same time the thought scares us to death.  So we go to church, hoping to be stroked and comforted as we look at our upcoming death.

        1. Ceegen profile image85
          Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Personal experience. But you would say that I'm crazy without any evidence, just like I testify that these things are true without evidence.

          Because evidence isn't sufficient without belief. You could have evidence that you exist, but I don't have to believe that you exist. For all I know you're just a complex computer program.

          1. JMcFarland profile image92
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

            1. Ceegen profile image85
              Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              There is no evidence that you exist.

              1. JMcFarland profile image92
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Lol if you say so.   I have documentation that I exist.   I have to verify my identify to get a drivers license,  a job or a marriage license.   I have a birth certificate and a social security number, and I interact with people face to face daily.   Can I prove that I exist?   Absolutely.   If you don't believe I exist,  then who are you talking to?   Yourself?  If so, do you like taking to yourself?   If I don't exist, and you're communicating with yourself,  you seem to have schizophrenic,  contradictory beliefs.

                1. Ceegen profile image85
                  Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Your papers and licenses mean nothing, just as much as my bible is only a collection of papers to you. I'm not talking to a real person, obviously. You're just a figment of my imagination.

              2. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The response of one who has no evidence for their argument....

                1. Ceegen profile image85
                  Ceegenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I have evidence. I think, therefore I am, and I am evidence.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image92
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    And that magically doesn't apply to anyone else?   I have dna and fingerprints,  not just paper.   Until you can prove your bible true, there is no reason to accept it as truth.  Easy, really.

                    If I'm just a figment of your imagination,  why are you still talking to me in public?  Doesn't say a lot about mental stability to have public, written conversations with yourself.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The jury's out on that.

                  3. DoubleScorpion profile image86
                    DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    A person that is Brain dead...Can't think...But they can be kept alive with machines...so they still exist...so your "I think, therefore I exist" argument is on shaky ground...

  2. Glenda Hunter profile image61
    Glenda Hunterposted 3 years ago

    I remember waking up when I was like 3 or 4 and I felt like an old soul in a child's body.  I didn't feel like a child, I felt like an old woman or a grown woman. I believe anything is possible.  I believe the dead are behind the veil, like another dimension from us.  I don't believe this world is only a dream,  I believe in Carl Jung's collective conscious theory. I believe in prophetic dreams which are visions, I believe God speaks to us in dreams. I believe everyone is capable of touching the spiritual world and that the dead are capable of contacting us, but mostly don't wish to until it is our time to cross over.  I believe Jesus is real and that there are many paths to him, I believe every religion is valid because they express love as the most important thing although there will always be fringe groups that seek to scare.  I believe death is not the end.  I have fears like everyone else because I am on my journey to knowledge also.  And change can be scary, but I have seen enough that I wonder sometimes why I should be scared.  But as my son says, "It's all good."

    http://blog.oconnormortuary.com/2013/05 … ice-nurse/ 

    http://allnurses.com/hospice-nursing/ho … 49183.html

  3. sparkster profile image94
    sparksterposted 3 years ago

    Absolutely.  Our body is just a shell.  When we die our energy/soul (which can never be destroyed) is no longer limited by our body's 5 physical senses and we then get to experience universal consciousness (Heaven/Nirvana).

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Where may I find your experimental evidence showing this to be true?

    2. laeixx profile image82
      laeixxposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you, Sparkster.. I believe something very similar.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago

    We are spiritual beings that have entered a human embryo and have incarnated into a human body. After we die we remember nothing. If we do not wish to be of spirit, and want another body, we come back and try it again. Who ever is lucky enough to love God like Elisha/Jesus did, can stay with God in heaven and not come back any more. It depends on desire. The will of the individual has full say. Most people just follow along restlessly and play it by ear. It is best to develop a sense of mastery over oneself and determine what one wants. Take control and get back to God. That is our true path to happiness. According to my Guru.

    1. Authorkat profile image59
      Authorkatposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I am always one for interesting points of view. I respect everyone's view on life and their points of reference.  We can all learn much from one another.  I thank you for your insights on this subject.  The conversations are rewarding and interesting and worth learning more about.  There is so much that we don't know and don't understand about the spirit, the soul, the flesh, the mind, etc...  Thanks so much and keep the great comments coming.  The best learning is when we share our thoughts with each other. smile

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Are there new spirits being born every day because our population keeps going up? How do the spirits keep up with human population? Do they multiply like we do?

  5. Zelkiiro profile image85
    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago

    We are simply a series of neural impulses shaped by experience and genetics. Your brain is your everything.

    Just because we're sentient and self-aware does not mean anything spiritual is going on; it just means our big primate brains are smart enough to realize that we are sentient.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The day when one of my kids said to me "Dad, I can think about thinking"

  6. Nasrullah idris profile image49
    Nasrullah idrisposted 2 years ago

    From the Math:

    The real world is like the equation = a ^ 10 + b ^ c ^ 9 + 8 ..... j ^ 1 (10 variables)

    The World Unseen is like the equation = a ^ x .... b ^ y ..... c ^ d .....
    Variable? Mystery

    So it's hard to understand the occult. Importantly we believe that the supernatural exists.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Why is it important to believe something that has not been demonstrated?

  7. APooch profile image59
    APoochposted 2 years ago

    We all worry about the unknown.

    In my honest opinion there can be good and bad spirits and they are all around us.
    Oftentimes I believe a dream has meaning to it. Sometimes I feel its how our loved ones that have passed on connect to us. Everybody has their own opinion on this stuff, it's something we can never be too sure about.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Why?  Why do you have the opinion there are spirits all around us?

      What tests have you performed, what observations have you made?  What knowledge/evidence did you use to formulate that opinion?  What logical thought processes did you use to come to that conclusion?

      1. APooch profile image59
        APoochposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No tests, no scientific evidence.

        Just from personal experience. I recently lost a very close friend. Moment before he passed away he looked at me and gave me a thumbs up. Weeks after his passing I thought I saw his face. It became a reoccurring theme in my dreams as well. I can't be too sure if it's just me over thinking things or actually the truth.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          OH.  OK then. 

          I was hoping for considerably more - speaking for myself, not being "too sure if it's just me over thinking things or actually the truth" is insufficient reason to formulate an actual opinion, and for someone else to feel that way is absolutely insufficient reason.

  8. renaudgagneblog profile image60
    renaudgagneblogposted 2 years ago

    yes

  9. Nasrullah idris profile image49
    Nasrullah idrisposted 2 years ago

    Better we say "do not know". I also do not know whether the "body of viruses" are viruses?

 
working