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End Time Prophesy

  1. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Do you think we will see Armageddon in our lifetime?

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Define Armageddon.

      If war, starvation, natural disasters, etc. then yes.

      If the end of the world, Gabrielle trumpeting, folks floating into the air, certainly not.  There is no reason to actually believe the biblical tale of Armageddon.

    2. itknol profile image81
      itknolposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      As long as I am looking up to it - no. Every year passess and every year is a disappointment. In case you get bored waiting - start a family.

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Hold on I've got to channel into the spirit world…..

      Ummmmmummmmmummmm.

      Some time in the future humans will no longer exist.

      1. Zelkiiro profile image84
        Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sometime in the future...it will no longer be 2013...

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          On the way home from work, I will encounter a traffic accident.

        2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          In the future...we will all be older.

          I know this, because I'm a time traveler. I travel forwards in time at a rate of 1 second per second.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I'm going to go out on a limb here an make a prediction.

            I will buy pizza for dinner tonight. Then later (this part is still a bit fuzzy) I'll have heart burn and attempt to wash it back with large amount of beer. So let it be written, so let it be done.

            Oh, and I won't be getting lucky, I'll try but nothing doing.

          2. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Me too!  How weird!  What an amazing coincidence

          3. jonnycomelately profile image85
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The Future NEVER arrives.  It is the sacred, theoretical tool of these industries:

            Religion; Journalism; Insurance; Preventative Medicine; Marketing; and numerous others you might wish to add here.  They all depend on yours and my Fear to get us buying their wares.

            Opt out of the fear and worry.  Then apply your mental energy to remembering your mistakes of the past.  Then work out strategies to avoid a repeat and plan for better moments of now in the future.

            1. DzyMsLizzy profile image90
              DzyMsLizzyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Very well said!

    4. bukopandan profile image60
      bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No one knows when that time will be, not even Christ himself.  Only our Father in Heaven knows.  Mark 13: 32..."But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

      Just be ready... (in spirit, in good deeds, be prayerful, read the scriptures, smile a lot, be happy, and love lots and lots).

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You must believe in multiple Gods then if you feel the Son does't know what the Father knows?

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I suppose if you believe in one god who happens to suffer from Multiple Personality Disorder, you could potentially believe in a god that doesn't know something that it should know because it's omniscient...

          ...but that would be silly, wouldn't it?

          1. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            not necessarily.  Maybe the Bible god is schizophrenic.  He was all slavery, genocide and anger in the Old Testament and sweet and cuddly in the new - Ironically (or not so much) as soon as his people were exposed to Babylonian mythology which emphasized resurrection, hell and salvation.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But wouldn't a mentally ill god not be perfect, as is often claimed by Christians?

              1. JMcFarland profile image91
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Not under divine command theory, which says that anything God commands (slavery,  genocide etc) is automatically good and above question.

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Not to mention, a lot of god botherers claim that god is immaterial, meaning he doesn't have a brain--so how could we even begin to diagnose a mental disorder in something that doesn't have a brain? lol

                  (Also, divine command theory sounds like a trip wire landing them right in the Euthyphro Dilemma.)

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    God botherers??? Lol... smile
                    We cannot diagnose God. He doesn't think like we do (scripture)... how could he with no brain and all...? wink

                  2. bluebird profile image59
                    bluebirdposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    But you must realize that in the last days the times will be full of danger. Men will become utterly self-centered, greedy for money, full of big words. They will be proud and contemptuous, without any regard for what their parents taught them. They will be utterly lacking in gratitude, purity and normal human affections. They will be men of unscrupulous speech and have no control of themselves. They will be passionate and unprincipled, treacherous, self-willed and conceited, loving all the time what gives them pleasure instead of loving God. They will maintain a facade of “religion”, but their conduct will deny its validity. You must keep clear of people like this.

                    6-9 From their number come those creatures who worm their way into people’s houses, and find easy prey in silly women with an exaggerated sense of sin and morbid cravings—who are always learning and yet never able to grasp the truth. These men are as much enemies to the truth as Jannes and Jambres were to Moses. Their minds are distorted, and they are traitors to the faith. But in the long run they won’t get far. Their folly will become as obvious to everybody as did that of Moses’ opponents. 2 Tim 2:1-5
                    Looks like there are quite a few out here...

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        That would certainly contradict the behavior you exhibited in the post I just responded to where you called us idiots and morons. Is that the kind of love your "Father in Heaven" teaches?

    5. Frank Menchise profile image17
      Frank Menchiseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is no way that this Armageddon will happen, it has been written to frighten people into submission and believe what they were being told to believe at that time. Anyhow it would be better that we do not believe in everything it is said in Revelation; otherwise God would be a very violent God and not a loving God. So forget about the end of the world the way it is written in the Bible

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Violence may come from even loving human beings.  How much more may the creator of the earth be violent? We have read about the ways he deals with sin which he calls worthy of death in the OT.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          A creator?  Just any old creator?  Say, violent enough to send a dinosaur killer asteroid to modern earth.

          We DO expect a little more restraint from a perfect god/creator that loves all mankind, though.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Doesn't matter what we expect if we are not in line with his will. He says via biblical scripts that sin=death and faith=life and Jesus will bust through clouds in a flash and calamity will ensue because the earth will shake from its foundation and the moon will change color the dead in Christ shall rise and we will be changed in a moment and we shall ALL behold him at the same time and every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord...or something like that. wink

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              He says, via the writings of a pack of ignorant liars, many things.  Why we would be expected to shut down our god given brain and believe them is unknown.

              Which God knows very well - we can conclude that either He doesn't want us to know His past, present or future, doesn't care one way or the other and thus won't make the effort to communicate His wants or simply isn't there.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Ya know...we WILL find out who the pack of ignorant liars are for sure. wink
                God has communicated all that he wants us to know about how he wants us to live and we have a choice to take it or leave it. But I will not stand before him on that day with sorrow but glee. I believe he will return. I will be ready to meet him when he comes.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, we already have found out.  We already know that most of the outlandish tales have no connection to reality. 

                  Well, His communication was kind of the point - He has made none.  Without guidance (not lies, guidance) we cannot know what He wants and He knows that quite well.  It will be very interesting to find out what His goals/objective actually is - for certain it is not to create a race of inferior creatures to keep Him company and worship Him as Christians claim.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You do not believe yourself inferior to God??? Oh! No wonder you do not want the guidance he has provided. You should write him a stern letter. That "faith" may get you some results. You may have to duck though smile but as his equal you should have nooooo problem there.

        2. Frank Menchise profile image17
          Frank Menchiseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          We need a God that shows us how to be good by being good himself and in Revelation he is even more violent than in the OT, so, if one follows what you believe is right, then one can only assume that we are all rebels. For the betterment of all humanity, we need an example from God how to be good and this is not only our God Yahweh but also the god of our brothers Allah, which seems even more violent than Yahweh; well at least this is how we humans say our God is like? Here I would like to add that I would not be surprised, if it turns out that God is more loving that the ways we describe Him.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            There are no words to describe just how loving he is. I don't believe it to be quite humanly fathomable. We get a glimpse via his son Jesus. Allah is the God of Ishmael Abraham's son. And Isa (my Jesus) is also depicted in his story. Same God. More vicious and more loving than any of us can imagine. Jesus is our example of how to be good. smile God gave instruction. He followed with warning.
            Adam and Eve didn't listen. Their action changed their world immediately.  Death to them and their children, until...
            Today we have instruction and warning.

    6. Peggasuse profile image89
      Peggasuseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No, I don't.  I think who ever rewrote that book, just put that in there to make people fear.  Fear is not of God.  God is only love, as people discover, after they have passed on. 

      God doesn't do anything horrible to anyone.  People do horrible things to themselves.  God would not be God if he had vengeance in His heart.  The Bible is flawed with lies that make people fear.  And, as already said, fear is NOT of God.  It's only meant to keep people in line, by other people who want power.

      If we could all see that, then the "truths" in the Bible would be obvious.

    7. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Depending on what you mean by Armageddon, and depending on the level of God's patience with humanity (which seems to me to be super ultra oober patient, beyond all I can believe considering all things looking back over history till now), maybe so.

      Have you heard of the term, Moral Velocitization? It is kind of what we are observing in the world, I think, currently.  If I understand it correctly, things are going downhill quickly (morally) , like a snowball effect.  The quicker the decline, the quicker the moral collapse.

      At some point, the level of depravity will get so bad, and the hatred of all things good and true will grow, that there will be no turning back and the bible says God will give people over to their desires at some point.  It will be like a moral decline that I think will get so bad, that there will be no room in the hearts and souls of mankind to even care about a possible God and what he requires from his creation.  Evil will have to be answered, and a good God will oblige....

      Hopefully, that degree of things will be far off.  It depends on how much humanity sits back (like they are currently) and lets evil run rampant.  For now, I think there are enough praying people left that care, that much evil is being held at bay.  When the light leaves, when the people praying are gone for whatever reason or stop, I think the darkness will envelop crazy fast.  Evil, darkness without the light to keep it at bay, is a very dark thing indeed.  Ok, off my soapbox, lol, and interesting question!

    8. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, and one more thing, the biggest thing I notice in the world today that really makes me question in a bigger sense what is going on with humans, is that they are self sabotaging and willing to lose their freedoms like never before.  At a time in history when humans can see what has worked well for freedom for humanity, and what kills the same freedoms, it makes NO sense that we are voting and living in ways and supporting things that will kill our own possible freedoms!

      It is like humans are embracing things that are ludicrous and futile even if they know it will hurt them.  It makes no sense.  I am quickly losing faith in humanity when I simply turn on the news, and see the sides people are taking the reasoning given for doing so.  It is actually mind boggling to me.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Examples please?

      2. jonnycomelately profile image85
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If you are speaking of morality, in relation to the failings we are experiencing today, then I feel the lead needs to come from the population of the United States of America.  Out of your country comes some of the most blatant immoral activity you could ever imagine.  And I am not referring to anything relating to sexuality.
        My attention is drawn to gross excess in various areas of everyday life, e.g., Eating to excess, bordering on gluttony;  running business, large and small, with complete disregard for the needs of the poorer members of society, as if the "little people" of the world are only there by their own fault;  manufacturing rubbish and passing it off as good wholesome food;  lying about your life, painting it as moral when it clearly ain't;  remaining ignorant of other parts of the world, as though your own country is the most, if not the only, important consideration.  Also, in many cases a complete disregard for the needs of "Mother Earth," when millions of tons of artificial fertilisers are put in the ground to poison it and everything that lives therein/thereon.  I could go on.  Much of the examples stated above are perpetrated by respected, upstanding members of society.  Here's the crunch:
        Maybe the worst aspect is being unable to see, let alone admit, your faults.  If there is anything clearly required of the christian ethic, it is being honest.  Try it, you might find some enlightenment.

        Forget Armageddon.  We don't need it, just a return to down-to-earth good sense.

    9. blake4d profile image79
      blake4dposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No.

    10. slcockerham profile image83
      slcockerhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Good question pamij, As you surely now know, asking or stating anything Christian will bring all the anti-Christian kooks out of the woodwork to attack your beliefs or you personally. You are a brave individual to do so.
      I do believe in the Bible prophecies of God, as the one who does know the beginning and end of all things! Many of these prophecies have already been fulfilled, such as Daniel's explicit prophecies of the world powers and most of the ones concerning Jesus' first coming. We probably will see Armageddon in our lifetimes, if we live through the tribulations coming on the world, as we see the beginning of those things being fulfilled now.
      Things such as the world war against the state of Israel by a coalition of radical Arab nations as depicted in Psalm 83. Persecution of Jews and Christians by radical Muslims and others is gaining momentum, as Christians are now the most persecuted minority in the world. The stage is set for a world wide plague, war, famine, NWO dictatorship and the mark of the beast.
      Personally, I don't believe that a "pre-tribulation rapture" is scriptural and would point to Matt. 24 and Rev. 19 to back up this belief. If Christians are already gone, what Christians are being killed by the anti-Christ?
      As for all the nay sayers and atheists, they can believe whatever they want, but they should keep their opinions to themselves since they have no understanding of the things to come. When they are reading the Bible, they don't understand it because they are reading someone else's mail, thus the loss at understanding. May God's face shine upon you and bless you, as well as those unbelievers that are stirred up enough by this to honestly seek the truth.

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Good thing this forum is full of loving Christians who would never dream of personally attacking "anti-Christian kooks".



        Good thing this forum has no Christian kooks to stir up the unbelievers.

      3. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Good thoughts.  But I want to ask about the pre trib rapture.  I have considered it feasible because there will be some people left here who are getting a final chance to do things right. More persecution and blood running through the streets and destruction all around as some form of payment (for lack of a better term) for not getting it the first time. The absence of the mark makes things exponentially worse.
        Not that attitudes on this matter will make or break a follower; I just want to know what you think if not too much of a imposition. Maybe I should've read your scriptures first but, ok I'm going to do that in a sec smile

    11. Apostle Otha Bell profile image74
      Apostle Otha Bellposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I believe that the Second Coming of Christ, and all the events and things associated with it (the 3rd Temple, the Tribulation, the Rapture, Armageddon, etc.) is something we shall see in our lifetime...say within the next 5 to 20 years.

    12. jacharless profile image83
      jacharlessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      In every context of the word, Armageddon translates to mean New Beginning, not the destruction of the world. It has been mistranslated for centuries. As with every generation, since the first resurrection (note Rev 20.5b) men will continue to exist and die because they are scared to accept their true nature -as exemplified by Joshua Ben Joseph, aka Moshiach- and experience complete regeneration and fluidity with Creator. Until then, they will live and die by the sword of Reason, based on their scientific or sensational beliefs...

      There is no 2nd coming prophecy, as there is no longer anything to prophecy, for he fulfilled both the rules of law and the prophecies. He was the last of all prophets. There is no great tribulation noted to occur, nor Rapture. The third temple is the resurrected body " where [he] has his dwelling place forever." The new heaven-earth is the regenerated human, in body brain and spirit.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        smile

      2. Chris Neal profile image85
        Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Which book of the Bible spells that out?

    13. Claire Evans profile image89
      Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I think only those who have rejected God, and not the concept of God like accepts, will witness Armageddon.  When I mean rejected, I mean purposely spurning his holiness.  I also don't think those who are left behind will always have their free will.  It is possible that then man will be merged with machine.  It's called transhumanism.  It's very possible that it could happen in our life-time.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image85
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I shiver in my shoes, not from the thought of retribution but that now we have two illogical proponents here in the forum.
        I don't reject "god's holiness." Why?  Because I do not know what that is supposed to be.  I am still waiting for those who preach/teach such theoretical mind control to show me, in their own lives, what is meant by "holiness."
        Don't tell me. Show me.

        1. Claire Evans profile image89
          Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't say you rejected God's holiness.  You just don't know so how can you reject Him? You've rejected the concept of God.  That is not the same as rejecting God knowing He exists and therefore His holiness. 

          No one can prove their personal experiences to anyone else.  If you are looking for empirical evidence, you will not find it.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not certain anyone rejects the concept of God. Especially not Johnny. I think most reject ideas presented by others. God is a big word with as many variations as there have been people born throughout history.

            From what I've observed those who argue against God appear to have accepted a definition they find abhorrent and reject that definition. They are either unwilling or unable to envision other ideas. Whose fault then is it when they shut themselves off from open discussion? Who, ultimately, bears the blame?

            If the idea disappears from our collective psyche it will be the fault of the religious who dogmatically argue in defense of stands which throw a negative light on the subject. Those who insist we see God as a trickster. A maleficent. An entity whose sole purpose appears to be to create discord on this level of existence.

          2. jonnycomelately profile image85
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            As I have several times, I reject the concept of a judgmental god of the sort put forward by religious people.  He, She or It has no semblance of holiness as far as I can see.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Put em up jonny. 3:15 smile
              G'morning.

            2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
              oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jumping in here...

              I personally am thankful for a God that will one day judge.  I am equally thankful for a society where there are (generally good) judges so people don't get away with harming others continually.  It would be a horrible society to live in, otherwise.  The God of the Bible is the most perfect kind of judge there could ever be, as he is all knowing.  That he added in a way to be pardoned and took the penalty to do it, is just a kind and loving extra thing to do.  An all knowing God that knows the heart of every person, is neither too lenient nor too harsh, and no human judge can say the same. 

              Just giving the view of even a judgmental God from the Bible...from the view of Jesus who clarified some of the areas of disagreement. Good judges that societies need to live in peace and freedom, still have some of the biggest enemies, but the reasons for that are explained by something else usually. Just interchanging the ideas of earthly courts and a more eternal/cosmic (for lack of better words) to show that we don't sometimes dislike what we are thinking we dislike, if that makes any sense.

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                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You must have a different bible then I do.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It's the other way round, your God is far too harsh compared with a human judge. No human judge would send someone to burn for an eternity just because they didn't worship him.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sounds like the mind of a human "judge" to me...

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, but he's speaking his own truth, not pretending it's that of a god.

              3. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                On further thought it must be boring judging people when he knows the future and knows happens before people are even born.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, he knows. He don't orchestrate it. He just knows how we will DECIDE (the operative word) to orchestrate. See???

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Then why judge if the future is predetermined?

                2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Judging people that break laws isn't about curing boredom, and if it was, many judges would stop doing it.  I imagine people are often bored to tears in courtrooms across the world, at times.  My point is, it isn't about being boring for God or not.

                  Having a God that isn't all knowing wouldn't really be any God at all.  He doesn't use his all knowing ways against us. Think on this for a minute.  Say you heard and others heard about a crime that was going to happen.  Does it in any way mean you are at fault when the person chooses to carry it out?  That wouldn't make sense.  It wouldn't make sense to take away their free will either to commit crimes or do good deeds.  The knowing of it doesn't implicate, and the suggestion of taking away free will wouldn't be a good thing either.  The criminal chooses to commit crime almost 100% of the time, and if he was forced, then there is a responsibility on more than the criminal.  A good judge, judging crimes, is still a better thing than not.  If we are honest, none of us would want to really live in a society that was any other way.

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                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Notice that in most societies we are not judged by the bibles standards. If we were we would be killing homosexual and women found to not be a virgin on their wedding day. A person stealing a bag of chips would have the same judgement as a murderer.

                    If I am aware a crime will take place and don't act to prevent it I'm as guilty as the person committing the crime and can be charged accordingly. The description you give to your God has knowledge but doesn't prevent the crime making him guilty as well.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You got my vote.

              4. jonnycomelately profile image85
                jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                if that makes sense....  ....not wishing to appear rude, but to me it doesn't, because I see humans taking on that role of judge in the name of an imaginary god that suits their preconceived ideas.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not sure how the ideas I presented don't make sense, as I am speaking of ideas here about judges and and overall final judge (need not be the Christian God or a god at all, just an ultimate judge.)  I don't see how humans can take on that role of judge of a God like that.  If you are inserting your own worldview (assume you are because you say imaginary God that suits their preconceived ideas..) then of course it wouldn't make sense.  I was not talking about that though.  You were originally talking about the God of the bible and I was running with that. 

                  If nothing else, I would have to ask about one final thing based on what you said.  If there is no God, then no problem being judged by him ultimately, and no human can judge you like that either.  Even if people had preconceived ideas about a god that suits them, that doesn't apply here with what I was saying.  I was pointing out the ideas themselves and the inconsistencies when we apply what we all know and agree with to one judge over the universe.  I shouldn't have put that last in, LOL.  It distracted from my points.  I don't think humans can judge like that, and certainly ought to not try to.  We can't do such things, like judge souls and punish or give pardon or forgiveness on that level that I am speaking about.  So no worries there.

            3. Claire Evans profile image89
              Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What is the judgmental God?

              1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You are unable to answer that question yourself?!!

                The imaginary one espoused by Cgenaea, presumably your self and many other people of like mind.  The one you want me to "believe in," a peculiar christian term.

                Such a god seems to have nothing connected to an awesome, beautiful, sometimes frightening and mysterious physical world that you choose to ignore and abuse/neglect. - PS - in favour of creating fear and emotional bullying.

                1. Claire Evans profile image89
                  Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It's a leading question, Johnny.  I want to know what your idea of a judgmental God is.  How does God create fear and emotional bullying?

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image85
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    There is no god that is judgmental!  Humans do it using the god they believe in to back up their phobia and ignorance.

                2. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh stop...! Aint nobody trying to scare you. smile I told you that if you have faith, you can run right up to the Lord and get all that he has for you (love, joy, peace...) no matter what the church deacon says; it is not that that goes into a man that makes him unclean. It's the JUNK coming out. If your output considers God, you are clean. Even when you mess up. Your heart must lean toward him. He knows when it does.
                  No one has it mastered jonny. We all fall short. But we cannot proudly wave it in his face. He does not like gay "pride" just like he does not like lie pride or murderous pride or whore pride. Humility is key. Faith enough to say, "ok, it's getting too hard. I got this issue; and I know it is not pleasing to you. Please help" and just like that...the cover surrounds you and you become protected because of the faith to hand him your issues. His correction may hurt a little from time to time; but he never turns away from any of his own. He WILL leave the 99 to tend to the one caught in a ditch. smile I know.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    More of the same.

                  2. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    And if you don't run right up to the Lord, he will send you to a special place he has made for you.  And you pretend that you are not trying to scare us.  Did you not say that you had stopped being dishonest earlier?



                    Yep....this is pure GARBAGE!



                    Some people say they are proud to be American.  Does God hate that too?



                    Sounds like daddy issues...definitely?

          3. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I keep saying that. Maybe it will sink in using your dialect. Lol
            Let's see.
            Hi Claire smile

            1. Claire Evans profile image89
              Claire Evansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you.  Hope you are well.

          4. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I personally reject the concept of any God. I think there would be concrete evidence of it's existence and like Jonny certainly reject the judgmental Gods as described by religion. Without the concept of God cluttering your mind the universe and life becomes much clearer and we begin to see how descriptive the concept of a God is. With God we've attempted to explain things we didn't understand and when the understanding eventual came it was rejected because it conflicts with the concept of God.

        2. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nice trick. smile show you want it.

    14. Hendrika profile image73
      Hendrikaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No I do not think so, but we are making a very good job of speeding it up with destroying the environment.

    15. 60
      tbHistorianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      one person's Armageddon depiction
      may simply be another person's idea
      of an economic failure or catastrophe
      the world is experiencing catastrophe
      through lack of righteousness
      and growth of evil
      Armageddon is just around the corner
      if the nations do not eliminate the evil
      history has shown that as the number
      of corrupt politicians with radical agendas rise
      the destruction of society and its members
      soon follows.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image85
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        How many christians are out there petitioning those you perceive as corrupt?  Or do you just throw up your hands in prayer and dispair and leave it to your god to sort out?

    16. 0
      Jane Ardenposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I really do. 'Critical times hard to deal with' are here. 1 Tim 3. Matthew 24.14

    17. 60
      tbHistorianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Given the level of evil sin currently growing steadily in the multi-cultural societies of the earth, it is certainly possible.
      The Roman Empire and other societies were destroyed for the very same reason.
      Today many nations have WMDs that could bring the END.

      1. Dr Lamb profile image61
        Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        multi-cultural? Is that the problem?

    18. grand old lady profile image89
      grand old ladyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Sometimes it seems like it but I'm not sure. But I hope not in my lifetime, nor that of my children. It's just scary, but as the Bible says, no one really knows when it will happen.

  2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
    Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago

    You can hop on a plane to Israel, and go to Mediggo and 'see Armageddon'. As for an apocalyptic clash between supernatural beings...my money is on 'nope', and will always be on 'nope'.

  3. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Then what do Revelation chapter sixteen mean to you in the holy scriptures???

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      God is pure evil?

      1. pamij profile image61
        pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No sir GOD is good and he loves you more than you could ever imagine.

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That would contradict the chapter you referred. A loving God would never do such things, or is your definition of love opposite of the one in the dictionary?

          1. pamij profile image61
            pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No sir!!! GOD is not doing this to us, His desire is that we have life and have it more abundtantly. John 10:10 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

            1. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But God created evil,  after all. Isaiah 45:7.  Besides that,  in revelation,  God is supposedly doing a lot of the killing.  Not the adversary.  Satan is responsible for 10 deaths in the Bible - jobs children - with God's express permission.  God ordered to be killed or himself killed over a million.

              Let me ask you something.  Are you concerned over all of the other apocalyptic prophecy found in other religions?   Probably not, because you don't believe they are true.  I just believe in one less apocalypse than you do.

            2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You should probably read Revelations 16 to see that God is doing that to us.

            3. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry about the peanut gallery, Pamij. I think Armageddon comes and goes periodically. I do believe another one will happen eventually… not sure when; maybe sometime during this century.

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Do you feel his love? Do you sense it in any way?

      2. jonnycomelately profile image85
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        lol

    2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      They mean nothing to me beyond any other piece of literature or poetry. Some fantastic imagery, but no different than the descriptions of Ragnarok, or of the clashes described in the Kojiki.

    3. SwordofManticorE profile image74
      SwordofManticorEposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Rev 16 was prophecy fulfilled already. Long before your great decedents were born.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Then none of us was present.  Can you be sure that this prophecy was fulfilled?

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          At least as sure as we can be that there was a world wide flood, that an ark filled with all the animals of the world rode it out, that there was an Eden, that all mankind is descended from one couple, that an angel killed all the firstborn of Egypt in one night, etc. etc.

          And doubly so as Revelation is obviously metaphor and we are allowed to make any meaning we wish for the words there.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image85
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Cgenaea, are you not attaching your own meanings to Revelations?

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Haven't attached a thing smile just asked a question.

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            My question addressed the assertion that the prophecy was fulfilled. We know the information you present is written biblically. You have some of it in a bias box so no need to address.
            Do you know the prophecy to have been fulfilled???

            1. jonnycomelately profile image85
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Haha!!  And you speak of a Bias Box Cgenaea!!   But of course you only speak in terms ok faith, whereby you understand it all.... so no need to address.

        2. SwordofManticorE profile image74
          SwordofManticorEposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It is found in the book itself, How can you not see it? The temple was still built, In Rev 1, it says "soon to happen", not 2000 years later. I found this book very confusing when I understood it as you do, but when I have come to the understanding that it was written before the great siege of Jerusalem with the day of the great slaughter, it all started to make sense. Yes I am very sure that this prophecy has been fulfilled. to you understanding Cgenaea, what is this great harlot that John versioned? It is very simple.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            When "one day" equals 10 Billion years (Genesis), "soon to happen" would likely refer to the end of the universe, when it dies and all stars gutter out many Billions of years from now.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              smile

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I have no revelations on the book of Revelations. smile I really haven't tried much. However, soon biblically is very vague. The temple built torn down and rebuilt torn down to be rebuilt from my scant understanding of it. I just thought you had an inside track on the subject. The harlot??? Please tell me.

            1. SwordofManticorE profile image74
              SwordofManticorEposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The temple was built by Solomon I believe. I was later destroyed around 480bc, along with the Jewish religion, but temporary. It was later built again and then destroyed AD70 at the hands of Syrian Romans as prophesized by John in Matt 3:10 and in the parable of the rich man and laserus in Luke 16. Christ spoke about the coming horrendous event in Matt 24 and in 25. The temple's destruction a second time was a vision John had and he called it the second death. As for what the great harlot is, it is none other than the city of Jerusalem. The third temple will not be a physical nor supernatural temple. We the believers in YAHUSHUA ha MASHIACH are the temple.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So John saw something that already happened. So what do you say we may expect for end times? I was pretty sure that Rev. was end times prophecy. Being so abstract and metaphorical that book is a bit beyond my full comprehension. I don't really sweat it because I really haven't felt I needed the information. The strive to understand it has not been a priority.

                1. SwordofManticorE profile image74
                  SwordofManticorEposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That is not true. John did not see something that already happened, he saw what was soon to pass. The book was written in the early AD60s, not AD96. There will be no end times as the church believes it. When the great harvest of tabernacle begins, the completion of God's plan for all mankind will begin.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    No end to life as we know it; to golden streets??? End is end. Does it matter how the END to life as we know it occurs to what the bible says will be, for eternity???

  4. Disappearinghead profile image90
    Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago

    No John made it up. Look at the four living creatures: one man, one lion, one ox, one eagle. Now look at the stars or an astrological chart; you will see on opposites sides, one man (Aquarius), one ox (Taurus), one lion (Leo), and one scorpion, or as the Babylonians interpreted, an eagle (Scorpio). John was looking at the stars and following Babylonian astrology fancied he was seeing god type creatures. I'm amazed Christians are so blind to Johns rip off of astrology.

    Not only that but the church argued for 300 years about including Revelation . Anyway, and thus John and Revelation have lost all credibility.

    1. 0
      MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Very interesting, Disappearinghead. I once read that Revelations was never meant to be in the NT because it was written as the end to the author's world, not ours. Intriguing.

    2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There are all sorts of astrological extrapolations which can be made regarding the Bible--Abraham is given a ram (Aries) to sacrifice to Yahweh instead of Isaac, Moses is angry at the Hebrews for making a golden calf idol (Taurus--the astrological age BEFORE Aries, and thus a reversal rather than an advance), Jesus has a lot of fish imagery (Pisces) and was said to usher in a new age...

      Given how vitally important astrology was to ancient peoples, this should be surprising to no one. It shouldn't even surprise hardcore god botherers who scream about astrology being of the devil. Many stories in the Old Testament--Genesis in particular--parallel ancient Babylonian myths (even before the Babylonian captivity), and to deny the impact of the Babylonians on the ancient world because your god is bigger than their god is willful ignorance--which is the only shameful kind of ignorance.

      1. bukopandan profile image60
        bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Ok so let me get this right... katie, and all the disbelievers here.  You all do what you do because you're just here on earth and you just follow the laws of the land to avoid jail time... but if you can get away with doing something bad for your own good then you would still do it.  So basically we have a conscience placed in there because we don't believe on anything?  lolz  haha.  very solid foundation of beliefs you got.  We do what is right and evil because it is inborn... where did we get that from?  of course ... who else our Father in Heaven.  duh.  common it's not rocket science idiots!  (don't say you got that from your biological parents... or the apes... we got that from the first people here on earth).  packing morons!

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I don't go around killing people because I have absolutely no desire to do so. I value human life, and I don't need a cosmic scoreboard to make me value life or do good things--I do good for goodness's sake. When people do bad things to me, I feel bad--and because I have empathy for others, I don't want to do bad things to others because I don't want them to feel bad. This isn't contingent on the supernatural. I see bad things in the world, and I see good. That does not require that I then believe in a god or gods.

          Disbelieving isn't hard for me. There is nothing compelling enough to make me believe, so disbelief is really quite easy--just like it's easy for me to disbelieve people who claim they were abducted by aliens, or were rescued from a burning building by Bigfoot.

          1. bukopandan profile image60
            bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So who were the first parents or mortals here on earth?  who would teach them what is right and wrong?  why did they pass on the values of morals, character, good, and evil?  Why does the constitution have "In God we trust." ... common so if people don't believe in God, then they shouldn't believe in the laws of the land... period

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The Constitution doesn't say 'In God We Trust'. It doesn't mention God at all. And gods are not necessary for laws.

              Human beings are a social species, and something we call 'morality' emerges in social species in order to ensure the survival of the group. If this is something that you are genuinely curious about, you should look into the evolution of morality. But moral laws predate the Old Testament (Hammurabi's Code of Laws, for instance), so Yahweh can't be the origin of laws like 'don't kill or steal'.

              1. bukopandan profile image60
                bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Ok, yah i stand corrected on the US constitution. my bad. But the pre-amble to the constitution referred to God as "Almighty of the Universe".  The framers of the constitution avoided mentioning God (and Satan) in the constitution to exercise freedom of religion.  The pledge of allegiance has the words "under God...".  The US coin had the word "In God We Trust". 

                Ok so we may all have different beliefs.  So you believe that there is no God (like Buddhists and other people do)... and I can respect that.  But I can respect those who do also  if it motivates them to do good towards others and their family members.  Just remember... we have an engineer of these earths, planets, galaxies... in due time we will know who they are.  but for the meantime, continue to do good and love.  coz it feels right...

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The Preamble to the Constitution of the United States doesn't reference God, the Almighty, or even Providence. The pledge of allegiance had the words 'under God' added in 1954 in response to the 'menace' of communism (and it was originally recited while performing the Bellamy Salute--which bears an unfortunate resemblance to the Nazi salute, and was abandoned in favor of placing one's hand over their heart in 1942). US currency has 'In God We Trust' on it because in the aftermath of the Civil War, some Christian members of the Treasury snuck it in, and then appeared on paper money in the 60's, also in response to the 'threat of communism' (which is also how 'In God We Trust' ended up as our national motto--fear of the godless commies). I think 'E pluribus unum' is a much better national motto, which more accurately reflects the idea of the United States of America, but sadly, I don't get to call the shots, and there are more immediate issues that deserve my attention than getting the national motto changed.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image91
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    +1

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, it feels right, that is the point. Unlike believers, who are told to do good things for others so they can get their rewards in heaven, non-believers do good things for others because it is the right thing to do, and they do those things without expecting any rewards, in heaven or anywhere else. That is a huge difference. smile

                  1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                    Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Truth. The benefit I get out of doing good for someone else is purely seeing them happy, which makes me happy. I'm not doing it with a big cosmic gun pointed at my head, playing Russian Roulette with my every choice. We're all free to act in any way we choose, and even without some eternal Big Brother watching over us, I think most people would choose to do good. We non-believers do good because we're not antisocial, and I think everyone who is not antisocial would also do good if they were non-believers.

        2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, you edited your post. Cute.

          No, I don't avoid doing bad things because I want to avoid jail--I have no desire to do those things. I have a purely secular morality. I make decisions based on a consideration for the outcome of my actions, and judge those outcomes based on various criteria (e.g. Life is generally preferable to death, pleasure is generally preferable to pain, health is generally preferable to sickness, etc.). I don't have somebody else declare what is right or wrong to me and then follow that 'moral law' blindly, even if it means I have to sacrifice my firstborn child to that 'moral lawgiver', or have to go and slaughter people in battle and then take the virgin girls as my slaves because my 'moral lawgiver' said it was what it wanted.

          1. bukopandan profile image60
            bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            yah sorry, had to edit. my english is poor. i'm not a native english speaker.  I understand... we all have freedom of choice since when we were born (some have lots and some have limited).  but at any rate, i understand where you come from.  at the end what matters is we put all our differences aside and love each other.  :-)

            1. bukopandan profile image60
              bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              oh and multiply... lolz

            2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Your English is fine--but your edited post is considerably more confrontational. lol

              1. bukopandan profile image60
                bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                oh ok. my bad.  if you were here... i'd treat u for coffee.

        3. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There is plenty of evidence that Atheists don't need the fear of God to be good. I know I personally don't. You must have been taught that you need the fear of God to be good, that's one of the limitations that Religion puts on it's people. It prevents them from ethical maturity.

          The US prison system is made up of less then 0.5% Atheists.

          Care to guess what percent are Christians?

        4. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If there were no laws for any particular act you wish to imagine that somehow benefited me but made a direct negative impact on someone else, I still wouldn't do it, because I know that doing that act will have a negative impact on that person and I wouldn't want that to happen to me. I don't need anyone to tell me that, let alone some ancient book, I can figure that our for myself. Why can't you?



          From our own minds, using reason, to think things through to their ultimate ends, to understand that any acts we commit may have negative consequences for others.

           

          Have you noticed that your insults are not well thought out, that you didn't use your mind to reason out why you shouldn't call us idiots and morons, that even the belief in your "Father in Heaven" didn't stop you from writing them here? Maybe it is the apes who are moral?

  5. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Lets look at Revelation 16 : We see GOD's wrath. Why is he so angry with humanity? 6  For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    7  And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

    8  ¶ And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

    9  And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

    10  ¶ And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; Ex. 10.21  and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

    11  and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

    After all the deeds that humanity did above GOD in his mercy continues to give them a chance to repent. Do you not see that??? His love does not stop there, rather you guys believe in him or not he still loves you and want you to turn to him.

    GOD does not care what you done, if today you will repent and turn away from your sin this is what he say, "18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. GOD does not want to kill you, he loves you for you was created in his image.

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      We all own, or at least have access to the Bible.

      Just sayin' you don't have to reproduce it in large chunks for us.

    2. 0
      MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And here I thought the OP was asking if we thought we'd see Armageddon in our lifetime....instead, lecture and preaching....fiddlesticks!

    3. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Seems like ancient poetry to me--filled with fantastic imagery which cannot possibly be taken literally, and is NOT taken literally when it comes to you from Odin or Zeus or Indra. But when this particular storm god says it, that makes it fact?

    4. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      But, you just finished saying this:





      So, now you agree with us after actually reading the passages. smile

  6. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Just trying to show you GOD'S love, but you know what GOD gives us all a choice, he does not force anyone to worship him. We all have free will. However we must think back to the days of Noah when he kept telling the people it was going to rain and they laughed and scorned then the rain came and what happened to the people???

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Everybody here knows the stories.

      Again, just sayin'

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You mean this love…

      Exodus 21:20-21 NLT

      If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

      or this love?

      Leviticus 21:9 NLT

      If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father’s holiness, and she must be burned to death.

      Oh the compassion.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        That's nothing--try Numbers 31:1-18.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Oh yes that is lovely isn't it?

          17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

          18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

          Kinda gives me the warm tingles. Anyone ever notice it's always one guy that says he talks to God, but no one else hears it? You'd think an all everything God would and could speak to the masses. Oh well.

        2. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          1 Samuel 15:3

          It's my favorite example of love EVER.

          1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
            Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oh yeah, that's another good one.

    3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      God drowned them all, which is mass murder. Very evil guy.

  7. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Only because someone asked is GOD evil??

  8. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    It is strange how people can twist the bible into something negative and refuse to see GOD's love for humanity such as:

    I.The Deliverance of the children of Israel out of Egypt

    II.Adding fifteen years to King Hezekiah's life when he deserved death

    III. Feeding the Prophet Elijah during a famine and hiding him when his life was sought

    IV. Raining manna from heaven

    V. Delivering the 3 Hebrew boys out of the furnace

    I can go on and on showing GOD's mercy

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Nobody is twisting anything, the words are there for all to read.

      It would seem that YOU are the one who is twisting the words.

      1. JMcFarland profile image91
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        one would think that if you have to redefine words, make up excuses and try to make the text say something that it doesn't say, it may not be a good idea to bring it up.  Apologetics is nothing but the study of spin doctoring, word smithing and making excuses for a supposedly all-powerful deity.  It's pitiful.

    2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yahweh was a thunder/war god, in the same tradition as Thor and Indra. Examples of him ordering the Israelites to go and slaughter people are far more common in the OT than examples of him being touchy-feely. You'll notice that every single one of those items that you listed was an act of 'mercy' delivered solely to the Hebrews--and only if he rolled out of bed that morning and liked them. If their God is so merciful, why allow the Holocaust? Or the practice of secretly baptizing Jewish children and then having the Inquisition kidnap them during the 19th century--like what happened to Edgardo Mortara? If the Abrahamic god is 'love and mercy', then he's had a funny way of showing it for the last 3,500 years--especially toward his Chosen People.

  9. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    It is strange how people can twist the bible into something negative and refuse to see GOD's love for humanity such as:

    I.The Deliverance of the children of Israel out of Egypt

    II.Adding fifteen years to King Hezekiah's life when he deserved death

    III. Feeding the Prophet Elijah during a famine and hiding him when his life was sought

    IV. Raining manna from heaven

    V. Delivering the 3 Hebrew boys out of the furnace

    I can go on and on showing GOD's mercy

    1. Zelkiiro profile image84
      Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You mean in the same story where God slaughters millions of Egyptians, primarily children?


      So he extended one guy's lifespan by a few years. Whoo-hoo. Didn't stop him from killing children.


      Was that before or after Elijah summoned bears to chase down and kill children for calling him bald?


      Because clearly being petty and forcing your chosen people to live off of stale bread is more merciful and loving than simply guiding them to the Promised Land. Clearly petulance is a desirable quality in a deity.


      Was that before or after the guys who threw them in died from exposure to the heat? Why didn't God save them? Eh, I guess his mercy and love is...selective at best.


      Yes. His selective, bafflingly counterintuitive mercy.

      1. pamij profile image61
        pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        GOD always extends warning before judgment, rather you chose to believe or disbeleive is on you. We are all governed by free will.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Can you give us ANY good reason to believe in any god - let alone yours?

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Fluffy would love it if you worshiped Tiamat. Is bonding with your pet a good reason to worship a God, or Goddess in this case?

            1. Zelkiiro profile image84
              Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Only Zoamelgustar is real.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Hey! Dionysus is a fun guy! I can think of LOTS of reasons to worship him.

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I love Bacchus, and he clearly loves me.

                2. 0
                  MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, good choice.Think of all that wine!

              2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Hey, I've seen the Emperor of Japan with my own two eyes--he's TOTES real! (And he has a genus of gobies named after him!)

            2. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Fluffy probably would, you're right.  I'm waiting for him to roast my chestnuts so I can get in the holiday spirit

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Chestnuts?

            3. jonnycomelately profile image85
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              After 5 weeks of argumentative non-sense dominated by mostly empty yet faithful contributions from Cgenae, this thread (approaching 1700 posts) amounts to nothing useful except Melissa' s comment about her cat!
              Do you also have a god- sorry, I mean dog - at home Melissa?

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                As a point of correction, Jonny, Fluffy is JM's pet invisible purple dragon

              2. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                smile prob neither. Wait, prob lots. smile

        2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So why doesn't God come down and reveal himself unambiguously to everyone in the world? If such an experience was good enough for Paul, why can't God reveal himself to me and everyone else on Earth that way?

          1. pamij profile image61
            pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Katie Paul's experience qualified him for his future position as an Apostle. We may not all see GOD while in the natural realm. However if we seek GOD with our whole heart we will have a supernatural experience. Acts 2:17. In the last days GOD is going to pour out his spirit up all flesh. GOD often time reveals himself in dreams and visions.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You didn't answer my question, though. Why can't we all have such an experience if god really, truly wants us to know he is real and ought to be worshipped? You can't qualify it with 'You just have to try with all your heart', because if I try and DON'T have a supernatural experience, you can just say that I didn't do it right. It's a cop-out. Besides, what about people who have such experiences regarding other gods?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It all depends on whose message you take in. Belief in God is NOT a "favor" to God. It helps the believer. We HAVE ample evidence to make a yea or nay decision.  Just as Adam and Eve. No, they could not have fully grasped death. They knew NOTHING about it. They had NO experience with it. They took in and believed the WRONG message and brought death into the world.  God created immortals. Free will destroyed immortality for a while. BUT...He WILL have his way. A WHOLE world of people who trust him ALONE will live with him forever.

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Adam and Eve didn't know that they were making the wrong choice, because they were made completely ignorant and trusting--it's an ancient story about stranger danger, not history.

                  But heck, I'll bite--what's the ample evidence that we have? I see no evidence to convince me that the Abrahamic god, or any other god, for that matter, exists and has supernatural powers which it exercises. (This is an important distinction, because I've seen various other 'gods', such as mummified pharaohs, the Emperor of Japan, the river Ganges, communion wafers, etc. but not a single one has any supernatural abilities which would distinguish them from otherwise identical non-gods.)

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    They were given instruction.  Had they listened and trusted as they were made to do they would still be here! wink and the bible calls it history.
                    The evidence is all the mouths that proclaim; the pages of the bible; the holy spirit; and faith which brings God "to your service"

                2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You really are convinced by a literal Adam and Eve, why? Did you know that the Jews wrote, rewrote, and edited the Torah during the exile to give a comforting account to a disposed and downtrodden people? How do you know what is real and what is fiction? Were you there debating with them about what to include?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah! I sat next to you don't you remember me??? You were early.  You got more of the editing done. Did you take notes? We were trying to vote on a cute and cuddly puppy in place of the snake, remember?

            2. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If you have a "supernatural" experience,  how do you identify where it came from?   Do you check gods id?  I mean,  seriously.   Thousands of people from all over the world claim to have divine experience,  but they attribute those experiences to different Gods.  How do you know they're from God at all?

              Furthermore,  what qualified paul to be an apostle.   He never met Jesus, was never on a list of apostles,  and was never called an apostle by anyone but himself

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Faith IDs God. He told Thomas,  "blessed are they..." well I know it is already known what he told Thomas.
                We have enough.
                If God swung from the chandelier of our livingroom, we ask for ID. Right??? He gave us enough.  It is now up to us to decide. Those with faith in God WILL NOT be ashamed or embarrassed on THAT day.

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I wasn't asking you.  Perhaps you should illuminate to your christian counterparts here that you think Allah of Islam is the same god that you as a Christian worship.

                  I will wait for the person I was actually speaking to for an answer.  I'm not playing any more games with you, your insults and your assumptions against those who have actually studied these things.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm sorry. I will not respond to you again.

            3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Dreaming about anything doesn't make it real, including God. If I dream of Thor, does that make him real?

              1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah, I dream all sorts of crazy stuff. Last night, I dreamed that the weather was nice outside--but then I went outside and saw that dreaming it didn't make it so.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I dreamed I was a dragon and flew away when I got stuck in traffic and incinerated the car that cut me off with a fire ball blast from my nostrils.  Good times.

                  1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                    Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Your dream was better than mine, lol.

                    But wait--are you now actually a dragon that breathes fire from your nostrils? Did dreaming it make it reality? Inquiring minds want to know!

            4. Disappearinghead profile image90
              Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I sought God with my whole heart for over 20 years but never once had the supernatural experience that you claim I should have had.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I don't feel that everyone receives the "supernatural experience" as supernatural is commonly understood. The problem is that we lay out parameters for the way God should do things for us. We forget that it is we who are small in comparison.  He is the parameter layer. He is not subjected to OUR will. We are the subjects when we truly follow him. His will; not ours.
                I personally have been waiting for him to do just one thing for years!!! But I dare not thumb my nose because he is sooooo slooooow. I wait.  I beg sometimes;  but still, I will wait. Loving and trusting him with my best interest still.

                1. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I never laid out any parameters whatsoever, or made any conditions. I have simply had no supernatural experience yet pamlj above said I will have a supernatural experience. Is he/she not a true Christian?

                  You say you've been waiting for God for years to do something for you and as you have not said otherwise I'm assuming he hasn't spoken to you about it either. Would you behave like this to your children? Blanking them in their time of need without a word.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    My dad did it all the time. Especially with money.  I'd wait for a no response for days. smile memories...
                    Patience is important.  People actually give him ultimatums. Fancy that... smile

                2. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What happens when you have waited for 30,40 years - a lifetime and still don't have that one thing?

                  Will you decide that because you got something similar that He actually DID give it to you?  Will you decide that His answer is "No"?  Will you pretend that you never asked after all?  Will you give in and put forth the effort to get it all by yourself, then saying He gave it to you?

                  Will you question the other things you have received and ascribed to His work - that they were either coincidence or from your own efforts?  What will you do/think/feel when you realize that God has never given you one single thing all your life, although you have assigned many things to His generosity?

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Haven't we learned something from the story of the Emperor's new cloths?

                  2. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I will do/think/feel as you do. But please!!! Don't hold your breath on that one!

    2. bluebird profile image59
      bluebirdposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I totally agree. God is good. We are insignificant. Yet He showers His love on us every day, He allows us to live on his good earth which He created and He creates food for us to eat and sun to smile on us and warm our hearts. God is  good. And thankfully for us, He is all-knowing, all-powerful and He is in charge of us little caterpillars who think we know so much. We have a lot to learn and HE WILL TEACH US, be it the hard way since we're so hard-headed, we will learn. He is in control and we should be very thankful for that. He is wise and we are the dummies, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
      PRAISE BE ALWAYS TO GOD THE CREATOR!!!!

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Wow. That's some pretty low self-esteem.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
          oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          To each their own... I saw it kind of opposite of low self esteem, though maybe with some humility still.  The tone of the whole post is upbeat and not seeming to be sounding like someone with low self esteem.  She seemed amazed and happy, not someone expressing from a point of view of low self esteem.  It could just be the way they used words.... because truth is, that compared to a mountain, ocean, the planet, or the universe, we are indeed next to "nothing" in size, but compare all that to God, and he is even more huge and magnificent to have created the whole universe. 

          Then to realize he paid the price for our sins, to help us have a way to Him if he wanted it.  We could have low self esteem, but to realize what he has done....wow.  I could be wrong in how I saw it, but wanted to share my thoughts in case it was an encouragement instead.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I just never understood the process of comparing ourselves with insects and calling ourselves insignificant to prove our piousness. There's a difference between humility and humbleness and self-abasement.

            I am fine admitting I am less than perfect, that Jesus is an inspiration and that compared to him I am lacking... however I don't think God put so much work into us to have us believe we are insects and insignificant.

            Humility is one thing, I don't think I'll be crawling on my belly anytime soon.

            1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
              oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I didn't realize you were taking her comparison to an actual caterpillar to such a literal degree, and I saw it as just one word among many others.  They may have meant it like "crawling on your belly, etc" like you said, but I didn't take it like that at all.  Oh well, and thanks for your clarification on how you took her comment to be so negative.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It may be a cultural thing. In this particular area, in my experience, it begins to be almost like a competition of who can profess themselves lowest to prove their love for God. The immediate assumption is that it's fine to tell others that they are "worms" and "snakes" that are unworthy to stand before God.

                After a while, comparing yourself and others to low creatures works into the mind. You believe you are unworthy in general, and see others the same way.

                It's just, to me, a negative representation of theatrics that works against having open, honest, faith. That's not meant to be insulting, just a problem I've ran across.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok... thanks for explaining your point of view.

                  1. bluebird profile image59
                    bluebirdposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he takes up the isles as a very little thing. Isa 40:15

                    ...I will just say that God counts the nations as a drop of a bucket, so where does that put each individual compared to God?
                    Yet we are created with a wonderful potential and will eventually be the masterpiece of God's creative work!

              2. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Get used to it.

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image88
        oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I think you are right, and we are so small compared to such an amazing God.  Yet he has chosen to extend his mercy, grace and love to those that believe in his Son.... We are so small and seemingly insignificant but then on the other hand not at all.  The reason is because of what he has done for us.  He wouldn't do that for something he cared nothing about.

        His eye on is on even the sparrow..... 
        Amazing

  10. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    people one of the worst things we can do is disrespect out creator. So I take your answers to be that you doubt there will even be an Armageddon??

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "Doubt" is too weak when considering the biblical Armageddon.

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I doubt there will be an Armageddon and I'm a Christian.

      Good luck convincing the atheists.

      Let me know how that works out for you.

      1. 0
        Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Melissa, Melissa, Melissa, don't you know that only REAL Christians believe in the Armageddon? Shameful that you don't

    3. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, I very much doubt that there will be a Biblically prophesied battle between Jesus and Satan.

      What I don't doubt is that there are people out there who VERY much believe that it will happen, and are VERY interested in making sure that the events in Revelation happen within their lifetimes--and that scares the hell out of me, because those people have political power. Those people make political decisions based on their fervent belief that Jesus will come back for them before they die, so there is no reason for them to be concerned about the future. They try to pass legislation that they think will please God, because they don't expect that their grandchildren will have to live with the consequences of their actions (the restriction of women's rights, ignoring environmental concerns, stalling peace talks, building up our military and keeping their fingers on the big red button, etc.).

      That's why I have such a problem with Premillenialism and Christian Dominionism.

      1. bukopandan profile image60
        bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        @ Katie:  I agree on your note.  Do you believe that there is any church perhaps that comes close to truth or have the fullness of the gospel?

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nope.

          1. bukopandan profile image60
            bukopandanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            the LDS (mormons) is the closest to it.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree--and I now understand where your claim about aliens comes from.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Right, the bigots and the ones with the secret hand shakes with Smith sitting beside God are the closest religion to the Gospels?

    4. 0
      Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      As a Christian myself, I would think that our God in his omnipotence and omniscience already knows who will continue to disbelieve and disrespect and who disrespect him now but will change once he is revealed. And in his grace will still accept those who choose him and allow those who don't to take whatever path they choose.

      I shudder to think that our God needs little old us to defend him . That is very limiting to his power. Just a thought

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        But a very good thought. I like it, it should catch on.

      2. 0
        MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Per usual Deepes, valuable and sensible insight. Can you send this out in a memo? smile

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If you friend him on FB, you get daily status updates filled with Deepes wisdom and insight.

          Two a day if you're lucky wink

          1. 0
            MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Deepes wisdom on the daily?! Will my mind be able to cope with all the sensibleness going on? Ha ha! Thanks for the tip! smile

            1. 0
              Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Don't listen to Melissa. She has poor taste in reading material...lol

              1. Zelkiiro profile image84
                Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What're you talkin' about? Everyone should listen to Melissa, as it's one of the most influential and awesome heavy metal albums of the 1980s.

          2. 0
            Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Wisdom and insight? I always thought they were the semi-coherent(barely) ramblings of a man that is full of hot air that spends a lot of time in his own mind wink

        2. 0
          Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I tried, but not everyone wants the memo on some things that are in the bible (that they believe in) as far as how big God truly is as well as how to act, or so I've been told. Go figure.. But I digress

          1. 0
            MysticMoonlightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, it's their loss, truly. Trying is all you can do. Some do not care enough to do even that or do so for the wrong purpose or reasons. Their idea of trying to help is force-feeding dogma as all that matters. I've not seen that actually work out yet and actually, as we all know, often has the opposite effect. Why do they not get this? Rhetorical question, of course.

            1. 0
              Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Even rhetorical questions have valid answers.

    5. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      One of the worse things we can do is to think that a fictitious character in an ancient silly fairy tale is our creator.  Frightening!



      http://angrybearblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Chicken-Little.jpg
                          THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

      1. pamij profile image61
        pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Prayerfully, you don't really deem JESUS~GOD as an ancient fairy tale? However we are all entitled to our own beliefs. Oh yes, without GOD the sky would(will) fall. GOD is neither a pipe dream, nor a fairy tale. Prayerfully you will have an unforgettable experience with our creator.

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Most people in the world don't believe that Jesus was god. Even early Christians didn't believe it. And, let me clarify...do you think the sky is an actual physical thing that can fall, or are you just being poetic about it?

        2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly, and that is one of the primary reasons why God doesn't exist. smile

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So that's your decision???

    6. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There are far more worse things we can do than disrespect a being whose only existence is based entirely on words in a book. The problem with believing such a thing is that we then place how we treat human beings on a much lesser plane of ethics and morals, which would account for how badly many people are treated in the world.

      Both the Vatican and Uganda come to mind.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, the worst possible thing you can do is disrespect You-Know-Who, especially if you're a Muggle or are Muggleborn. We should all live in abject fear of him, because at any point, he could send Bellatrix Lestrange to torture us to death.

        There are actual human beings I'm more worried about--coincidentally, many of them live in the Vatican and Uganda, lol.

  11. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Katie Paul's experience qualified him for his future position as an Apostle. We may not all see GOD while in the natural realm. However if we seek GOD with our whole heart we will have a supernatural experience. Acts 2:17. In the last days GOD is going to pour out his spirit upon all flesh. GOD often time reveals himself in dreams and visions.

    1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      According to the bible, Jesus walked around and actually interacted with people after he was resurrected, and according to the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna revealed his cosmic body of Lord Vishnu to Arjuna, both in broad daylight--why shouldn't such things happen in modern times, now that we all have HD cameras in our back pocket with direct links to Facebook and YouTube?

  12. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    ooops!!!! Correction that is upon all flesh.

  13. Freeway Flyer profile image85
    Freeway Flyerposted 2 years ago

    To the original question: No.

  14. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Finally a direct answer

  15. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Remember the keyword is "Think", for honestly we don't know.

  16. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    The bible says, "how can they call on him if they don't believe?" And "how can they hear unless someone tells them?" YES!!! We NEED to "defend" the word of Christ.
    As for Armageddon; the antichrist is with us daily. Good Vs evil is now a daily concern. People laugh and scoff and speak foolishness concerning the message of Christ to their own peril. But the one who retells his message is not at fault.  Beautiful are his feet. smile (scripture)
    The final battle is a little ways away from my understanding of what is to happen first. But it could be within the next minute that all lines up according to scripture.  We just don't know. Thanks Pamij for telling it... nice "shoes" you wear wink

  17. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Thanks Cgenaea for your contribution to this post.

    1. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Muah!!! smile Been on "lock down" for a whole week!!!

      1. pamij profile image61
        pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        What are you talking about you been on lock down???? Lock down from what????? If someone is holding you hostage I urge you to call your local authorities.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          She means that she's been banned from the forums for a week for insulting atheists and other Christians.

        2. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well,  some of the people here are very sensitive when it comes to scripture.  They spit vile things from their lips and they deny all that is God.
          For some reason (well I do know why) they get angry when their silly argument comes against TRUTH and they all of a sudden FEEL PERSONALLY ATTACKED smile
          it is soooooo funny. They attack.  But NEVER appreciate the echo. Banned for an ENTIRE WEEK.
          They will not win this argument though. It was WON thousands of years ago. smile
          I watched.  God is with you.

  18. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    A few days ago, I read about Paul.  He gave a personal account of the brother of Jesus. An "out of the way" James comment is important in determining his authenticity. It is viewed by most historians as an important piece.  Paul seemed to be acquainted, from what I recall.  And there is no doubt among them that Paul definitely wrote Galatians.
    We have enough...

    1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And half of the other letters attributed to Paul are widely known to be forgeries...and anyone who knows anything about lying knows that throwing in extraneous details makes a lie more believable.

      Of course, Jesus could have been real, and Paul might have really met Jesus's brother--but that doesn't make a single one of the supernatural claims true, any more than L. Ron Hubbard existing means that he was telling the truth about Xenu.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Right. Faith.  We do or we don't.  Paul knew God and his son. OR... Paul was crazy and spoke from his own head. Which report do you believe? Simple

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Those aren't the only two choices. Paul could have been mistaken. Or he could have been deliberately manipulating the early church. But of your two choices, I'm more inclined to believe the latter--in past times, people who were epileptic, schizophrenic, had multiple personalities, etc. were considered shamans, prophets, etc. who were connected with spirits and gods. Who is to say Paul wasn't epileptic AND mistaken?

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            We would probably know if Paul had epilepsy. smile his message is one anong MANY. We believe that the tongues and eyeballs burn out while people stand on their feet (like the BIBLE said) or we don't.  We don't have to make bones about it. If one is content in disbelief,  que será será.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How?  How would you know if Paul had epilepsy?  Of the hundreds of people mentioned in the bible, not one had epilepsy, or diabetes, or leukemia or any of a hundred different diseases.  It seems reasonable that people either didn't recognize the disease or didn't bother to mention it; probably the latter is it could be (and would be) taken as a sign of the devil.  Which it often was just a few centuries later.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Lots of biblical leprosy broke out. And we heard about that. Why would Paul not mention his seizures in any of his letters? smile

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Because having seizures was considered spirit possession, and if he couldn't 'cast out demons', he wasn't 'truly working in the name of Jesus', perhaps? And if he was instead schizophrenic, then his account of his conversion on Damascus would be him mentioning one of his episodes, would it not? (Not to mention about half of the letters attributed to Paul weren't written by Paul, lol)

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Peep this... How do you know that Paul did not sit down and pen each and every one of his letters???
                    You got faith??? wink

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Like many who have seizures, they attribute them to supernatural experiences.

            2. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How would we know if Paul had epilepsy, or any other disorder? People in the ancient world thought diseases were inflicted by spirits, and that hallucinations were visions from gods.

              Don't you care if the things you believe in are true?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I have faith that they are true. smile I cannot tap Paul or any of his friends on the shoulder to inquire.  How do you know that any of the ancient writings are true? For all we know, all debunks are false and hold NO water. But obviously,  we all believe something.

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So you DON'T care if the things you believe are true? You just believe them blindly? How did you come to your beliefs if you don't care if they're true?

                  I don't believe ANY ancient writings without outside evidence to corroborate it, and then I only believe it on a contingent basis.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You mesn you have faith contingently??? You believe what the other people say for now??? That's ok. The bible speaks about that kind of uncertainty. They named it tossed to and fro. I just prefer the "solid rock."

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You're here to tell us they're true. That should be enough, right?



                  It may seem obvious that we all believe something, but what makes you think that something is the same thing as you, or should be the same? Why can't YOU allow others to believe what they want?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Never have I insisted that anyone believe as I. The belief system of a person is strictly their own.  My only point has been that God has shown himself to many. He has written the things he wants us to know. If we accept him, we accept what he says. For the gray areas, he expects us to use the wisdom that he gives through his spirit. Jesus fully explains how our thought and actions should be. He SHOWED us God. I may only believe and repeat. You are free to do the same...or not.

  19. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Allah is said to be the God of Abraham.  Guess what... MINE IS TOO!!! smile
    I believe there will be Muslims in the kingdom of heaven.  And some Christians too!

    1. pamij profile image61
      pamijposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well you are greatly deceived JESUS is GOD!!!!!! The ALPHA and OMEGA like I stated previously You are entitled to believe what you choose.

      1. JMcFarland profile image91
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Your claims are just as valid as the muslims.  Neither of you have any proof.

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Oh boy, looks like it's gonna be good. Glad I've got a front row seat.

          1. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            *bows* I've been doing this for a long time.  It's a benefit of being an atheist who was a former Bible student in a christian college.  I'm just more picky about who I debate with now - I have no tolerance for those that like to mock people for being well-educated :-)  Want some popcorn?

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, I was raised secular (perhaps somewhat inadvertently, as my family identifies as Christian), so I've only ever seen the Bible as literature--and in no way more truthful than any other myths.

              But yes, please. lol

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Every single believer on the planet is greatly deceived because they don't believe the same thing as every other believer on the planet.

        If there were a God, he would have the sorest neck ever, always shaking his head at everything you guys say.

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          God does not turn his head for ANYTHING but his own. He knows who they are. He aint confused; or tired.

      3. Zelkiiro profile image84
        Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You do realize "Allah" is the Arabic word for the Hebrew word "El," which is what we translate as "God," right?

      4. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus is the SON of God. Remember? He spoke of his father often while he was here. He said from his lips that he was SENT. He stated that he did not know when he would return (but the FATHER only)
        No need for a big argument here. Can we reason it out and come to an amicable conclusion?

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Wait, so does Allah have a son or not?

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes - it is the Holy Ghost.

            1. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              According to the Qur'an, straight from an angel's mouth who heard it directly from Allah himself - Allah most certainly does NOT have a son - and it's blasphemy to say he does.

              "Say He is God, the One and Only God, the, Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him!"  Qur'an [112:1-4]

              They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are  about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son. Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious. He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one. All of them will come before Him on the Day of Resurrection as individuals. Quran: [19:88-95]

              In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Quran [005.017]

              They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Quran [005.072]

              It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. Quran [019.035]

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                But...the mountains are not crumbling, the heavens are not shattering and the earth is still in one piece. 

                I conclude that the angel lies and God begat the Holy Ghost.

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  the holy ghost is not technically considered a son, however.

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No. I do believe that I just read in the Quran that he has no son. Not sure though.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I'm pretty sure that no, Allah had no son. The whole 'There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet' line denies that Jesus is divine.

  20. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    lol lol lol omg!!!!!! I did not know what was going on.....lol

  21. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    yes! Sister JESUS is with me and he loves you more than you can imagine, but you already know this.

  22. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    However some believe JESUS was only a prophet and not GOD robed in flesh. GOD loved us so much until he put on the clothing of flesh(humanity) and came down to save us from our sins. Now if that's not love I don't know what is....

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I completely agree with you.

    2. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      God sent Jesus,  his son, to save humanity.

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Epic failure, that one.

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nope!

  23. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Yes he did, and JESUS was GOD.

  24. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    When you have a super natural experience with GOD there is no need to check to see rather he was authentic or otherwise , you will know that you were touched by GOD just as Paul knew.

    1. JMcFarland profile image91
      JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      but Muslims receive personal experiences, and they KNOW they were from Allah.  Hindus receive personal experiences, and KNOW that they are from Krishna.  Pagans receive personal experiences, and they KNOW that they are from a pagan god.  Personal experiences are nothing more than confirmation bias from a belief system that you already have.  For example:  If you have an experience, you attribute it to Jesus, because you already believe in it.  Christians don't attribute their experiences to Allah.  They do nothing to confirm that what you're saying is true.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Not to mention that the members of Aum Shinrikyou committed murders and released poison gas in the Tokyo subways because they believed their leader was the Second Coming, and he gave them supernatural experiences (usually by giving them LSD and then giving them shock therapy/hanging them by their ankles/doing sensory deprivation).

        Aum believed that it was their duty to bring about Armageddon--they KNEW it would come because their prophet 'the Christ' told them they would make it happen. They're one of the many groups that I mentioned scares the hell out of me.

  25. pamij profile image61
    pamijposted 2 years ago

    Katie pray and ask GOD in JESUS name to give you a supernatural experience.

    1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
      Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Alright--what should I be expecting? 'Cause right now, I'm experiencing pretty natural things.

      Why don't you ask God to reveal himself to me? After all, I'm a non-believer. I'm probably not doing it right, after all.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And just to hedge my bets, I asked Lord Krishna, Allah, and Odin for supernatural experiences, too.

        If any one of them is real, the supernatural experience I get ought to be smiting for praying to another god, right? lol

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Heretic.  Loki is much more fun than Odin.

          Oh, and you missed Bacchus.  I imagine he's fun too.

          1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
            Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You're right. I should put together a list and try them all! (Besides, if I drink enough in order to pray to Bacchus, I'm sure to have SOME sort of experience!)

            1. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I personally recommend tequila.  Not exactly around in that time frame, but I'm sure he'd like it a lot.

              Cheers.

              If you lined up every god ever posited and tried one every day, it would take you the rest of your long, natural life - and you'd still have a laundry list left over.  If there is a "real" god, just cross your fingers you got to him/her/it before you ran out of time.

              1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'd have to make sure to cover gods not posited, too--after all, just because humans haven't worshipped it doesn't mean that the one true god isn't off on some other planet right now, bringing logic to the Vulcans or teaching the meaning of honor the the Klingons.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You've actually hit on one of the main problems for non-believers and believers alike. Although many have tried, they have never had such an experience, which then downplays the validity of the experience by those who claim they've had one.

      Of course, "you will know that you were touched by GOD" is not a very good explanation for what it is we are supposed to experience, especially considering we have never seen God or would know what to expect. It could be, and usually is very different things to different people, often described by emotions and feelings and little else. How those people manage to distinguish those feelings from just feelings and claim they are a supernatural event is quite puzzling. For the most part, they appear to be the very same people who have the poorest of intellectual abilities and understanding of the world around them, unable to even grasp much of reality.

      Certainly, we can't take their word for it.

      So, why all the hide and seek? What's the point of God going around hiding from us and only coming in the form of feelings and dreams, why not just come out of the closet and show Himself to the rest of us? Seems a fairly simple thing to do. I mean, if He wants the world to believe in Him, that would do it. No one would question His existence, then.

      But no, we're supposed to pray for a supernatural experience, one that never comes.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image87
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And if we don't get that supernatural experience, it's because we doubted. Even though they say that 'faith as small as a mustard seed' is enough, apparently even a mustard seed's worth of doubt is enough to prevent an all-powerful god from acting to remove that doubt from someone. Funny, that.