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All revealed religions in the origin are truthful

  1. 70
    paarsurreyposted 3 years ago

    All revealed religions in the origin are truthful

    1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
      Katie Armstrongposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      This sentence is false.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        As is the religion that produced it.

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And your argument;please.

      3. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Your argument please.

        1. psycheskinner profile image79
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Various sects and religions directly contradict each other.  Thus they can't all be right. For example some say Jesus is the son of God and some say he is not.

          1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
            Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

            That's not to say that they can't all have something valuable to teach, or that they can't all be important to understanding culture, history or human nature. (Except for Scientology--I don't think it has anything valuable to teach except for 'hold on to your wallet'.)

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              paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Revealed Religion affords one to tread the natural path.

          2. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That only  reflects that the original message has been corrupted or forgotten. It also may reflect that there is no compulsion in religion.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              As no two are the same, that would mean that 10,000 messages were corrupted while exactly one was not.  Hard to believe...

              Of course there is compulsion in religion: "Do what I say or burn forever" is pretty strong.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If one sees an old building right now in shambles  and one believes that once it was a in good condition and might have been a marvelous building; nobody would say one is wrong.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  [20:17] ‘So let not him who believes not therein and follows his own evil inclinations, turn thee away therefrom, lest thou perish.

                  - what is the nature of "perishing?"

                  1. 70
                    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Not fulfilling the purpose of life

                2. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed.  What does it have to do with corruption of religious beliefs?  Are you trying to say that all religions were once beautiful and right, but have now fallen?  If so, your evidence for same?

                  After all, if one is to continue the building analogy, we can either think the building was always a shambles, or we can look at old photos to see what it once was.  When we look at old "photos" of religion, though, we see that it is better now then millenia ago; man has improved it's religions, not allowed them to crumble like the building.

            2. psycheskinner profile image79
              psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It reflects that they are not all truthful.  You didn't say "mean well" or "reflect some underlying truth". You said they are all truthful and this is impossible.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Since the revealed religions are all from the same source of the One-True-God hence they are truthful in origin; this is what naturally it should be.

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hence nothing.  There is absolutely no reason to think that the One-True-God has not lied through his teeth to us.

                  1. 70
                    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't agree with you; however you can have your own opinion, no compulsion.

                2. psycheskinner profile image79
                  psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Does it occur to you that when your assumptions lead to nonsense statement (directly contracting stories are simultaneously all true) that maybe some of your assumptions are false.

                  For example, some modern religions are known to originate with specific not very holy people.  Ergo, being a religion does not mean being made by God or someone sincerely inspired by what they assume to be God.

                  1. 70
                    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    We were discussing of the Revealed Region; please correct yourself.

          3. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus being a god or son of god is not the core teaching of Jesus or Moses.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus said that no one comes to the father but by him. It seems a core teaching.  He said no one. Jesus stated that he is the only way to the father.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The core teaching of Jesus is as follows:

                When Jesus was asked which of the commandments He esteemed to be the greatest, He replied,
                ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’”
                Matthew 22:37 NIV

                Then Jesus added, “This is the first and greatest commandment.
                And the second is like it:
                ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
                Matthew 22:38-39 NIV

                Jesus said further,
                “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
                Matthew 22:40 NIV

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, thanks.  That is the mostest. smile

              2. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Jesus' core teachings is as follows:

                When Jesus was asked which of the commandments He esteemed to be the greatest, He replied,
                ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’”
                Matthew 22:37 NIV

                Then Jesus added, “This is the first and greatest commandment.
                And the second is like it:
                ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
                Matthew 22:38-39 NIV

                Jesus said further,
                “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
                Matthew 22:40 NIV    

                Please

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                  Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Nice!! These are core scriptures I follow

            2. psycheskinner profile image79
              psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It is however absolutely core doctrine to some religions.

              So now you are saying some religions are "more true" than others? That is not very different from saying there is only one true religion.

    2. Disappearinghead profile image90
      Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You're back you've been gone for ages.

      However, how do you define a revealed religion? Revealed by whom? I think every religion has something useful to say to society and human nature and many of them have shared wisdoms, but truth....... Religions with conflicting ideas cannot all be true, and who gets to decide which is the true one? Nobody alive has ever been a witness to the claims of each religion's prophets, so there simply is no evidence available to support one over another. Personally I think all religions are manmade fabrications because none of them describe a God that come close to what an ideal perfect God should be. For example Allah wants to kill infidels and the Christian god loves unbelievers when they are alive but hates them when they are dead.

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Like the religion revealed to Moses; he never intended to propound a religion till he was addressed by the One-True-God Allah Yahweh with a clear message thus:

        [20:13] ‘Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa. [20:13] ‘Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa.
        [20:14] ‘And I have chosen thee; so hearken to what is revealed
        [20:15] ‘Verily, I am Allah; there is no God beside Me. So serve Me, and observe Prayer for My remembrance.
        [20:16] ‘Surely, the Hour is coming; I am going to manifest it, that every soul may be recompensed for its endeavour.
        [20:17] ‘So let not him who believes not therein and follows his own evil inclinations, turn thee away therefrom, lest thou perish.

        https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showC … mp;verse=8

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It sounds a lot like the bible to me. I hope that is not totally disrespectful. I'm just saying...

          1. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I appreciate your observation.

        2. J - R - Fr13m9n profile image85
          J - R - Fr13m9nposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          At first I was confused as to what you meant when your statement read 'revealed religion'. As time passed you clarified that statement. I would like to place a different wording when the subject of religion is raised. Think about all religions and what their philosophies are. Have you heard of the late Stuart Wilde who was a lecturing about the ancient Chinese religion of Taoism? It is quite fascinating. Go to your library and borrow a pack of CDs entited "Infinite Self".

    3. EncephaloiDead profile image62
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Your argument, please.

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Believing that will conflict with any religion. The core of each religion serves a specific purpose which conflicts with other religions. Mormonism was started so that Joseph Smith could have multiple wives.

      Edit: The only way a black person could join the mormons (until rather recently) was if they promised to be a slave in the afterlife. And the only reason they changed there views on that was because Jimmy Carter told they he would pull their tax immunity.

      1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
        Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well, Kukai argued that all words have some bit of truth to them, even outright lies, because all words, all sounds emanate from the dharma body of the Cosmic Buddha. Doesn't mean he was right, of course, lol.

        I'm curious, though--how many 'revealed religions' are there? The working definition we have right now seems too vague. 'Ones like what was revealed to Moses' can either exclude everything except Judaism, or include everything except Scientology and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Good question. There are said to be 4,200 religions. I don't know how connected they are.

          1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
            Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Not to mention the thousands of denominations among those religions--each one claiming that theirs is the TRUE version of the revealed religion. Talk about blind men and an elephant.

            1. 70
              paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If there is free will then there would be denominations and differences; but that is not a problem one could always find truth from the false; man is endowed with wisdom and reason.

              1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If one can always find the truth from the false, why are there still so many variant revealed religions, and so many denominations thereof (as opposed to one true denomination and thousands of abandoned ones)? You seem like you're trying to have it both ways.

          2. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Not all of them claim to be Revealed from the One-True-God Allah Yahweh.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So only religions claiming origin from Yahweh are 'revealed'? Okay, that's a good working definition. That narrows us down from 4000+ religions to probably at least a dozen , plus the thousands of denominations among those.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The One-True-God is known from His attributes; He has been named by different people differently in their own language like Allah, Yahweh,Ahura Mazda, Parmesher etc; that should not bother one.

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, so we really haven't narrowed it down at all. We're still talking about pretty much every single religion ever, pretty much all of which make mutually exclusive claims.

        2. 70
          paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There is no need to name the religion; submission to Truth or One-True-God Allah Yahweh is needed.

    5. EncephaloiDead profile image62
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Still waiting for your argument.

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      christiananrkistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      what do you mean in the origin? all religions pertaining to the beginning of everything?

    7. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Religion is nothing without the human mind to drum up excuses for their failings.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Excuses for their failings???

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, my words failed me....should have said 'your' failings.

          1. 0
            christiananrkistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            what failings do you speak of?

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Very kind of you to shine the light my way. But no thanks. wink can you say more about MY failings?

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, can I take this one?

              You've failed to convince me that any God exists. You've even failed to convince me you believe in any God?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I have failed to "convince" you??? Good. I cannot convince you or anyone else of anything wink you gotta get ur own... if I convince you. You may be UNconvinced.

                1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                  Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You have a faux humbleness about you when you say you 'can't convince anyone of anything'. That's bollocks--of course you can. That's what persuasive speaking and writing is all about. You just won't be able to with your level of debate skills, lol.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The kingdom of God is different... no "debate" skills needed. Lol wink
                    God is the "convincer" for they that follow him. It takes personal experience to "get". I cannot tell you of my experience to get you to "firmly believe" you need your own personal experience. You must ask in faith for that. My experience can "save" no one but me. Ask jonny.

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        What failings? Please elaborate.

  2. Mathew James profile image80
    Mathew Jamesposted 2 years ago

    The format, of the major religions, is similar in structure, but they have divided them self with semantics and the need to be correct.  In religious thought there is basically a top spot that has a Creator and then there is a level of spiritually that a person needs to grow through to find peace with the Creator.  A person believes in a Creator (Believer) or they do not believe in a Creator (a Non-Believer).   The divisions created by the need to be correct is what hurts the Believers from seeing their common ground and leads many people to being Non-Believers

    1. 70
      paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you.
      The format of all revealed religion is almost the same; when the original message in the original language revealed on the founder of a revealed religion is lost or becomes diluted in the debris of time the differences are made.

    2. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. I for one, know that the bible says just that. The petty quarrel over words is a dividing factor. Jesus attests to the fact that there are important matters of the law.  Our focus should be there. Some things are just not that important.  I just heard someone actually singing, Go tell iton the mmountain that Jesus Christ is born. Some of you may have heard it too if you are watching this channel. smile I believe Jesus. That's one of those important matters for me. I realize that so many disagree, but I am ok with it. I hold no ill will.  I tell what the bible says. It is the only constant truth for me. That is another huge dividing factor.

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        One should remain focused on the core teachings of a revealed religion.

  3. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    You did originally say core teachings.  I thought you meant more than one.

  4. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    Jesus, Moses, Muhammad and all other founders of revealed religion were truthful in origin and had same  core teachings as the were sent by the same One-True-God Allah Yahweh.

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Is it really the same God if each God is different? Is the Muslim God also Jesus? Is the Christian God without Jesus?

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus did not believe that he was literally a god or son of god.

        1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
          Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No, but the early 'orthodox' Christians killed off all the other early Christians who said Jesus was not divine, and burned their writings, and stamped out the denominations which held that Jesus was not divine or literally the son of God (because they apparently thought that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about when he said he wasn't literally the son of God, or the inspired scribes just wrote it down wrong, or something, right?).

          1. amer786 profile image79
            amer786posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I believe this is during the time of Council of Nicea which is 325 AD, so not quite early early-- roughly 300 years later. Also the ascension to heaven reportedly does not appear till 200 years after Christ(pbuh) in the Gospel of Luke. And there is much in the Gospels to confute the notions of God or literal son of God or a physiological ascension to Heaven.

            Jesus calls himself the Son of Man often enough. He only called himself a God or a son of God in the same sense as in The Book of Exodus God tells Moses (pbuh) . . ."Behold I send you as a God unto Pharoah . . ." as in, prophets are representatives and messengers of God. The Jews never took Moses to be a God. Even today, by reading the Gospels one can discover much of the origin.

            1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
              Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I consider pre-Nicaea to be pretty early, lol. It's before the established orthodoxy, and before Christianity was endorsed by Constantine. Is there an academic delineation for when 'Early Christianity' ended?

              1. amer786 profile image79
                amer786posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I suppose in contemporary academic and conventional terms it would be 'early' but would not be for those who were around at the time or even some time after. Constantine's involvement itself is cited as a potential factor in how these seemingly pagan concepts of worshiping man as God and other pagan customs such as the Easter bunny crept into Christianity. Was there some fusion with Roman religious doctrine to please Constantine? Possibly.

        2. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Please say more, if you don't mind.

          1. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus was a follower of Moses;his core teachings explain it evidently.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You mean, "I am the way; the truth; and the life..."? Or, "if you have seen me (the way I do things); you have seen the father (the way he does things)"
              I want to be clear on your statement.

              1. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all other prophets messengers of the One-True-God Allah Yahweh are the Way to Him as they have the same message from the One-True-God.

      2. Mathew James profile image80
        Mathew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There is One God and many many many many confused people

  5. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    The nation of Islam and Christians both come from the SAME man; who was promised a great number of descents. Both faiths from the SAME man of FAITH.
    The Lord promised Abraham a son via Sarah.  The promised child came, and a great nation of fath comes from him. The Lord also promised Hagar a great nation from her son. And surely as we know, the promise was kept. smile  Same God.
    Ishmael, being raised into adulthood by Abraham, surely knew the God of his father.  Now yes, there is a divide, but that was also promised.  As a note: the bible is batting a thousand on the promise thing...

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That's not at all true. One might say that according to the bible Muslims are related to Jews, but Christians were not decedents of anyone biblically.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Right. All with FAITH in Jesus' message were his "family"; Jew and Gentile alike.  Abraham is the father of both nations.  His sons were divided. Both yielded "great nations" with differences. Remember that one son parted from the bosom of Abraham.  Went a different way...

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The truthful religion is not racial.

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            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The OT certainly is racial.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Im having yet another "dummy" moment wink what race were Adam, Eve, and Noah (the first "chosen")??? Please help my ignorance.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                All were of the race that gave rise to Jesus; as all depictions by the church have Jesus as Caucasian, those people must have been white, too.

                Reality and truth were never strong points of religion, were they?  In truth, Adam and Eve were "born" in the heart of Africa and were thus black.  Noah, only a few generations from them and with no other race to mix in, was also black.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well...the bible speaks of love smitten angels who came down to mate. What race were they??? smile

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    As they are of the spirit world, with no physical manifestation, they don't have a race.  They also don't have the DNA that determines race.

                    Of course, without physicality, they cannot mate either, and the tales are thus just that; more biblical tales with no connection to reality.

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                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm talking about Gods chosen people. You know the people who he wanted to mark. Well the men he wanted to mark. It seems he didn't care much of women in the early days. According to the bible God had his chosen people and didn't want them to mix with anyone else. Thus Abraham and Sara were married and siblings.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh them!!! They rejected him. He knew they would.  He offered his gift to all those who accepted his message.  Those who opposed him "Jew and Gentile" were shaken. The family changed.

                  1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                    DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Not changed... added to...to replace the ones who were "broken off"...The Gentiles were grafted into the Vine to replace some of the "tribes" that did reject God...The family never changed...Read Romans Chapter Nine...

              3. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm gonna throw out a wild guess and say that, according to the mythology we have present, Adam and Eve would have looked like other Hebrews (that is to say, Middle Eastern, with dark hair and dark skin)--as would Noah, and Abraham, and all of the other characters described in the Torah. After all, they're telling their own mythology, and they're not going to make up something like 'Okay, so Adam and Eve were Koreans' for several reasons (they believed in an unchanging God who made everything as it currently appeared, including people; they believed that they were descended from these chosen people, and as chosen people themselves, it's logical to conclude that their distant 'chosen' ancestors looked like them just as much as their recent 'chosen' ancestors did; they didn't know Koreans existed; etc.). The characters in the Hebrew mythology are going to be of the same ethnicity as the Hebrews themselves.

                The Church (based in Europe) depicted Jesus as Caucasian because they wanted to appeal to Europeans, who, for the most part, aren't Middle Eastern. There are depictions of Jesus as black, and of a Chinese Jesus in other parts of the world--the fact that white artists made him white doesn't indicate that Jesus was actually white, and certainly doesn't indicate that mytho-historical characters like Noah (who was based on a Sumerian legend) or Adam and Eve (who were made out of red dirt/clay, a very popular creation legend in the areas surrounding the Fertile Crescent) were white. Light skin was also considered a sign of beauty in many cultures (even among light-skinned people, so this isn't just the modern demand that dark-skinned people conform to white standards of beauty--someone whose skin wasn't tan didn't work outside, and were thus aristocratic and wealthy), so depictions of holy characters as light-skinned isn't necessarily an indicator of their ethnicity, merely their beauty.

                But I think Adam, Eve, and Noah are all mythical characters anyway--it's like asking what race Zeus or Apollo were. They were most likely thought of as ethnically Greek, but they weren't real, so the question is academic at best.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So your saying the story of Adam and Eve some 6-10 thousand years ago conflicts with what science knows about the migration of humans out of Africa.

                  1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                    Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course--one is a myth about how humans were made out of dirt and a rib in a magic garden, while the other has, at the very least, paleontological and archaeological and biological and genetic evidence supporting it, lol.

                2. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh! What a breath of fresh air!  To hear some downtoearth, good, sensible, educated points of view for a change!  Thankyou Katie.

                3. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah! You know that I would not be in this conversation if we were discussing Zeus. I just don't give the make-believe my time. Oh how I wish EVERYONE were that way...

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                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Funniest thing you've ever posted. I only hope you meant it as humour.

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              paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That is a sign that the racial incidents mentioned in the Bible contain elements  that are additions made later by men and not revealed by the One-True God Allah Yahweh who loves the whole human kind generally and the righteous specially for their good deeds and He is not racial. I would like to quote here the respective attributes of the One-True God Allah Yahweh in this connection:

              [1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
              [1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
              [1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
              [1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
              [1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
              https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

              1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                How can we know that? If the text has been altered/corrupted, how can you tell the parts which are legitimate from the parts that are not? How can you tell that the writers who came after that altered text were able to make that same judgement? After all, a misinterpretation of a word has brought about the absurd notion that Mary was a virgin when she conceived, and an entire branch of theology has been built on that misinterpretation.

                If the texts have been corrupted, how can you make your original claim that they were true to begin with?

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Since your goal is honesty and truth with evidence; we can not know for sure what text was altered or mistranslated. It all depends upon your own faith and which report you believe.  Mary had no virgin birth??? Not many ride with that assertion. You apparently do. I cannot argue with you on what you have accepted. It is your acceptance, for now. I believe the current translation of scripture.  Says Jesus broke her hymen inside out. smile Sound unreasonable??? I know!!! But I believe it. Can you show me different?  Probably... but I won't believe you.

                  1. Katie Armstrong profile image86
                    Katie Armstrongposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, it sounds unreasonable because the Bible makes no mention of hymens, but that aside, the Hebrew word used in Isaiah, 'almah', means 'a young woman'--it was later translators who decided that it should be translated to 'parthenos' (Greek for 'virgin'), and that's the only time in the entire Bible that 'almah' was interpreted as meaning 'virgin' rather than just 'young woman' with no implications regarding her virginity/marital status (since in the ancient world, those two were inextricably linked). Catholics also maintain that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, even though Mary and Joseph were said to have other children. That's some impressive mental acrobatics on their part.

                    Only one Gospel (Matthew) says that Mary was a virgin, and all of the Gospels which were written before Matthew don't mention it--Paul doesn't mention it, either, even when specifically talking about Jesus's birth! The writer of Matthew most likely mined the Old Testament for possible prophecies that he could pepper his story with to make Jesus seem more legitimate, except that the prophecy in Isaiah is not believed to be a prophecy about the Messiah among Jews, so there's no reason to believe that the virgin birth story was meant to convince them (more likely, it was to convince Greek-speaking Gentiles who were used to hearing stories about gods coming down and impregnating women whose children were great culture heroes, like Hercules and Perseus) OR that the prophecy itself was referring to Jesus (especially since the prophecy was about a specific conflict between Judah, Israel and Syria, and the child who was born had nothing to do with it--the prophecy states that 'by the time this child is old enough to tell right from wrong, the land will be at peace because God is totally going to smite those other guys'. Only by taking it out of context can it be construed to be a prophecy about the Messiah.)

                    Moreover, there is no evidence that there was a virgin birth, and indeed, it's more likely that the story is a lie--if some girl nowadays said that her pregnancy was the result of God magically impregnating her, nobody would believe her (and if she persisted in this belief, there would be concerns about her mental health). In Mary's time, the punishment for pre-marital sex was DEATH. Even if Mary herself claimed that this baby was conceived magically by God, she would be lying to save her life. But it's not Mary claiming this--it's some dude who we don't even know who says that this guy Matthew told him that Jesus's mom was a virgin. No eyewitness accounts, no evidence, no doctor's report stating that she was a virgin in spite of being pregnant, nothing. Just some guy writing down what he heard some other guy say once.

                2. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It is not difficult to do; if there are contradictions the one matching with the core teachings and that which is reasonable is truthful as the One-True-God Allah Yahweh  is All-Wise.

        2. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Did you read your own reply?

          ALL people, Jews and Gentile alike, are acceptable.  And Abraham is the father of all even though they are not all descended from him. 

          No wonder atheists have difficulty communicating with believers!

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes! Remember,  I told you the reason wehave ssuch a problem with communications.  We speak along darn near opposite and parallel lines.
            But, Abraham is the father of Faith. All with Faith in God are his "descendants" and come after him. See??? The kingdom of God is spiritual.  Not flesh and blood.  Both boys have Abrahams blood. All the faithful of God's promises and provision have Abraham's Faith. Get it??? I got MY money out!!! smile

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              All I see is use of the English language in ways that bear no resemblance to common usage or definitions.  Along with declaring that all races are one, as that is the subject here.

              And in spite of your claims, not all people have the blood of Abraham in them.  We are NOT all descendants of the man and changing "descendant" to mean "share the faith" doesn't cut it.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Heeeheee... all of the faithful have the same blood COVERING them. God is not bound by cultural nor linguistic lines. smile you may "argue over words" if you want. Truth is truth. We all "black, brown, Puerto Rican or Hatian", of Faith in God, belong to God... (you probably didn't "get" that either...hip hop culture... (black,brown...) each culture has its own language.  God speaks one language. You must work to understand him. He's already got us pegged. smile

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, we don't have blood covering us.  You can say that, meaning some made up spiritual thing, but in the real world it is a lie.

                  Yes, we are all technically all races; so intermixed by now that only really artificial definitions "separate" the races.  Nevertheless, those definitions are commonly used and mean something to most people.  Just not what YOU mean when you use the word. 

                  If god speaks only one language, then relatively few can understand him.  Even such things as body language and the "language of love" varies considerably by culture.  That would actually explain quite a bit, wouldn't it?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Speak for yourself on the blood thing. I have it. Yes we are all mixed up racially.  What were we discussing again??? He SAID only a few would understand.  You been sneaking and reading somebody's bible??? wink again yes, the culture of God understands the language of love. Jesus dunnit smile (this time)

  6. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Romans 9... niiiiice smile

  7. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Fyi... the God relationship is something you initiate most often (lessen you want some donkey talking to you on the avenue wink ) the invitation is offered to all with an ear to hear. You most often cannot see what you don't seek.  You miss it every time.

  8. getitrite profile image80
    getitriteposted 2 years ago

    Legal definition of INSANITY:

    2. any form or degree of mental derangement or unsoundness of mind, permanent or temporary, that makes a person incapable of what is regarded legally as normal, rational conduct or judgment: it usually implies a need for hospitalization
    3. great folly; extreme senselessness

    1. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What category does ranting and raving about a false imagination fall under???

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Religion?

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Probably even worse a name invented for one who doesn't even believe it, yet rants and raves about it all day. Don't tell me...dont wanna know... smile

      2. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I don't know.  But after reading this, there is something not computing:
                                                               http://sr.photos2.fotosearch.com/bthumb/CSP/CSP894/k8942568.jpg



        No offense, but this might fit definition #3:

        3. great folly; extreme senselessness

        You agree?  Right?

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Strikes me miracle-like. But what would strike me folly style is if I got the sudden urge to yell at someone for their delusional activity.

  9. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    One should remain focused on the core teachings of Jesus rather than Paul.

    1. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I didn't catch their differences. Please help me see how they taught differently.

  10. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    I don't want to start bashing Paul; he is not my concern.

    Jesus did not write Bible so all of it cannot be trusted and believed   equally.

    One thing is sure; Jesus primarily got the Word of Revelation from the One-True-God and Paul did not.

    The core teachings of Jesus should therefore be focused and the rest of the narratives should be interpreted in line with the core or if they don't fall in line with that then it should be discarded or ignored.

    Following reasonable principle guides us under the situation:

    [3:8] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding. —

    https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showC … mp;verse=0

    1. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The book was sent. That means something.  We have that word for a reason.  Not for reading's sake; but for doing. Now, if it were possible that it was in some way corrupt, what good is it?

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sent, was it?  Via USPS?  UPS?  Fedex?  A stork or pelican?

        The "book" was conjured and written by none other than men.

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Sent down from heaven via spirit. wink all books are conjured. But I like the way God conjures.  Who's your favorite conjurer??? Lol

          1. jonnycomelately profile image87
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What's the postal address of that heaven you speak of? Cloud Nine?

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              3:16 John Way Ct., Lovegodaboveallville, Kingdom of God Almighty 11111 or P. O. Box 321, City of Bible Reproof, KOG
              Please expect your pkg anytime between here and until or you will forfeit your benefits.  Someone must be available to receive the parcel and sign on the dotted line. wink

              1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If a clever sense of humour indicates a high intelligence, you win a prize with this post, Cgenaea.

                How is it, then, that you persist with some of the most illogical contentious religious rubbish in your beliefs?

                My guess is that you don't really believe in those things.  You only use your statements to stir up argument.  It only serves to draw attention to yourself and keep the pot boiling.  This you have managed to accomplish, but it has become boring for me, so this discussion rarely gets my look-in these days.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Intelligence??? Yes... By today's standard of typical assessment with materials someone or thing thought up to measure what some societal scientist put together
                  as what they feel intelligence to be. But though scientists call me intelligent; I have been pegged much more often than not, as UNintelligent and so far beyond the grip of logic, right here among the HP crew. Though my very personal favorite is the assumption that i am incapable of critical thought.  Illogical is related to belief system very strongly.  My sense of humor is related to the late Billy Carson.
                  So you have noticed that my words stir up argument and yours leave a fresh clean feeling in the air? That's written too.
                  "Prefer the lie." May be a good search term.

    2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
      DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this



      Muhammad did not write the Qu'ran either, his followers did. And just as he got the Word of Revelation from Allah...His followers did not...

      So the same can be said of both the Bible and the Qu'ran...

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Muhammad applied two methods for Quran; he learnt by heart whatever was revealed to Him from the One-True-God Allah Yahweh word for word and from him his followers; secondly Muhammad dictated to the scribes as a secondary measure. Jesus adopted none of the above measures in case of Bible.

        The topic of the thread emphasizes that core teachings of revealed religions of Moses, Jesus,Muhammad, Krishna,Buddha and Zoroaster etc are the same; they support one another and are from the same source of One-True-God Allah Yahweh.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And how do you differentiate from things that you think up and hear in your head from something that is "revealed" and how do you reach the conclusions that that revealing source was a god at all?  How do you decide which God?  How did you personally come to the conclusion that Allah and yaweh were the same God at all?  How did you test the premise prior to coming to your conclusion - or is it just a feeling that you have?   How do you know you can trust your feelings,  when the teachings of both Allah and yahweh contradict each other, but both do teach that humanity is imperfect and fallen,  and that human instincts or feelings should NOT be trusted?

  11. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Let me insert: God provided instruction in written form. It is written by people I trust. In the same way, all people believe the words of people they trust. I trust Jesus; I trust Paul. I trust the scribes. I trust the canon translators.  I trust the spirit of God to guide me in understanding what's important and what leads to those things of importance and what is simply background information. All those things are essential in realization of the message.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And the Muslims have the same trust in Mohammad as do the Mormons for Joseph Smith.

      You trust people you've never meet, do you do that because it confirms you beliefs?

      1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
        DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I briefly thought about responding to her post...but refrained as it wouldn't make a difference...

        Even though evidence has proven that the scribes made errors, added to or took away from the original texts, they can not be trusted completely...

        It is proven that God nor Jesus actually wrote anything, but rather it was written down years later by someone from the oral stories that were passed down.

        There is little to no Proof that Jesus existed.

        There is proof that Paul was writing from his interpretation and did not agree with the "original disciples".

        The Canon translaters were working with faulty copies from the start and translated more based in the "faith" than on actual wording.

        Nothing we have is original texts, we have copies of copies at best...worse than that for some texts...

        New Biblical Studies by scholars (quite a few actually now) are showing that the Gospels were probably written closer to the 125-150CE timeframe instead of 65-95CE as previously thought...(Actually something I briefly touched on as a possibility in my dissertation over ten years ago) and are based on early Christian leaders interpretation of the "faith" based on Paul's and other early author's writings.
        The oldest copy we have of the Gospels is from the Book of John...and is dated to around 125CE. It was orginally thought to be a copy of the original because it was found in Egypt and written on papyrus ...But is now being studied as a possible original as new studies are showing that the author was most probable part of an early Christian (gnostic) group in that area of Egypt...

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with most of the contents of your post regarding NT Bible.
          The mythical Jesus of Bible is a construct of Paul, has no historicity and  is faraway from the real Jesus as also from his core teachings.

          1. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Can you prove the historicity of ANY Jesus?  If you can't trust the NT because of poor scholarship and cannon by committee (and I agree) then how do you know anything about Jesus at all?

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              See!!! Clever... smile
              "If I can get you believe me here; let's try THIS area..." now the very existence of Jesus is under question (not new but...just clever) some will swallow hook, line, and sinker. Good work for... not God.

              1. JMcFarland profile image91
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Except his historicity had been questioned since the late first century.   There's simply no evidence of him

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I find that statement somewhat absurd.  There are written accounts available from what I hear. It's just discounted. But that is the way the cookie crumbles.  Many will disbelieve. Then to strengthen their case, they read and give credit to the report that strengthens their case.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Sure, where's your case?

                  2. JMcFarland profile image91
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You are claiming that there are extra biblical written accounts.   Where?   What do they say?

        2. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ooooo dissertation... sounds serious DS. wink wait til the REAL real scrolls with the real real dates are discovered.
          We will know them by the smell of Old Spice. Lol
          Seems that the bible will have NO chance
          at changing people's lives if we just keep telling them, "it cannot be trusted as instruction because so many people touched it.!!! Jesus who?"
          Now THAT'S clever!!! wink

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Ever play the game where a secret is whispered person to person all the way around the room?  And compared to what was actually said by the first person?

            Telling people that "it can't be trusted because so many people had a hand in it" isn't nearly so clever as ignoring that every person that DID participate in the final product(s) we have today have left their personal interpretation/mark on the "sacred" writings.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You know...I really believe the Lord knew exactly how he wanted the message relayed. It is written down for a reason.

              1. JMcFarland profile image91
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                can you point me to ONE place in the entire bible where god ordered that "his words" be written and compiled in a book?  Can you show me where he gave mankind the authority to dictate what "his words" words?  Can you tell me the criteria that god listed, and the methods by which that criteria can be ascertained?  If you read the entire book, you will not find the command to build a bible. 

                God had very specific commands and dictated authority regularly throughout the Bible - but not when it comes to what HIS word should be, who should write it, and how it should be assembled.  What DID happen was several hundred early church leaders had a whole pile of "scripture" - and they voted on it.  If human nature is so sinful that it cannot be trusted, how does VOTING compile the spirit of god or his intention?  Couldn't he have faxed it down from heaven?  put his finger stamp of approval on it somewhere?

                Yes, it was written down for a reason.  It was written down because a person felt that what they were writing was their interpretation of what god was saying or what god wanted, so they wrote it down.  Interestingly, when it comes to the epistles in the new testament - no one knew that the letters they were writing would eventually become "scripture"  They were writing very specific letters to very specific communities - and they never imagined that they would be applied verbatim to the religion as a whole.

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I mostly agree with the contents of your post about Bible.

                2. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I do not know the answer for many of the questions posed. I only know that God started Moses and the others with written rules. So it is well within his character/ nature. I believe the bible as it stands today has his approval.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image91
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    you don't know the answers because they don't exist. 

                    Since God had no problems giving laws that he wanted written down, don't you think that the item that should be on the top of his list was making sure that "his word" was authorized, instructions were given and passed on? 

                    Never does God order his people (or any people) to write the bible.  Never did God say "these books are in, those I don't like so they're out).  Never did he give someone (or a bunch of someones) the authority to compile and contribute to his best-selling work.  Never.  Not once.  The bible was a man-made invention.  It is not authorized by god, it was not ordered by god (and he loved giving orders) and it was not given god's stamp of approval once finished.  The  bible wasn't even finished for several hundred YEARS after Jesus supposedly existed.  If god wanted to make sure that his final chapter was told correctly, shouldn't he have done something about it at the time?

              2. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That makes a very fine rationalization for accepting that everyone touching it has changed the sacred word of god.  For some anyway - for others it is just that.  A rationalization, recognized for what it is.

                It was written down because Constantine said to do so in order to gather all Christians into a more powerful political group, better able to trample anyone disagreeing.  That move made such things as the Crusades and the Inquisition much more likely.

      2. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Good question!!! I simply trust they who go along the lines of spirit.  I know you are not familiar with such a phenomenon however it is how we do it. I know spirit when I hear it. Many others do too!!! smile one may become familiar with it but...takes faith.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That sounds very much as if the answer to Rad was "Yes, I trust those people that that say things that agree with my beliefs.".  Yes?

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            And the same for you as well, yes?

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Not necessarily - people selling anything are not automatically trusted regardless of what they say.  And people that are TOO agreeable are the same.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Ok. So you only trust some of the people some of the time. Paul, Jesus and the bible never. I got it...

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I trust most people some of the time.  And no one all the time - even the conclusions I draw myself are sometimes suspect when the conclusion matches too closely what I want to hear.

                  And you're right - when people lie too often they get no trust at all.  And finally, when unknown people report what a third party has said, and make their living from it, they will never be trusted and their statements will always require further corroboration.

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Funny, that's exactly what the Muslims say. You can't be both right can you? I'll let you in on a little known secret, we all here those thought in our mind, the ones that tell us right from wrong. You're not special at all. You simply don't trust yourself enough to make good decisions on your own, but what you don't understand is your decisions and thought are yours.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What I have learned about the Muslim faith is that they have many of the same principles.  Where we disagree; God is judge. Not me; not anyone else. I do believe that many of many faiths (or sects) will live with God forever.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Wasn't it you who said that you need Jesus to get to God?

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The bible says that you need to have faith in Jesus as the firstborn of many who trust God in all; and the sacrifice to end all blood sacrifice.

                Ahhhh... Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the father but by me.
                Seems like a GREAT trick to say, "Pssst, he din really say that. You can get to God tonight, follow me!"

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Then why did you say you believe Muslims would be among you in heaven?

            2. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So in other words,  you do not believe in the Bible where it says "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart, you shall be saved"?  You don't believe that's necessary to gain salvation,  and even if you do that,  you're not guaranteed a spot? "Not all who say Lord,  Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, only those that do the will of my father"

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Every one of your scripts are true. I believe some Muslims will align in those areas.  For sure. There are some "Scotsmen" in the Muslim faith.  Lol

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That would be rather sad were it not such a huge rationalization.

      You don't have a clue who wrote the words of the bible, and thus cannot possibly say you trust those people.  At best you can rationalize it somewhat by claiming God picked them to write and guided their words, but even then you do not know if that is true, either.

  12. Jane McCamant profile image60
    Jane McCamantposted 2 years ago

    It is true we have copies upon copies of manuscripts having said that I will say but the dead sea scrolls are in existence I believe in the Nag Hamdi Library in Egypt at this time. So the old testament is acknowledged by scholars as authentic. However, the N.T. we have the words of historians at the time Jospephous, Luke a scribe for Paul, Pontias Pilot's secretary the accounts are in Rome. So yes we do have historical accounts.

  13. Jane McCamant profile image60
    Jane McCamantposted 2 years ago

    We know Paul, Luke was an historian well educated along with St. Paul. You may want to brush up on the early Christian religions stolen by the Romans. They were hijacked and used for their own political purposes such as Constantine a pagan that purportedly embraced the Church.
    I do not think you care if the word is divinely inspired so I will not go there. I believe that the hate for Christians today lies in the Christians themselves. Since Biblical history and textual scripture needs to be translated from Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin a lot gets lost in translation. To believe that every dotted word is inherently perfect is not plausible. It is through faith that Christians believe. I choose to believe but as a scholar I know that there are many sentences dropped, Mistranslations from Hebrew to Greek to English such as the Virgin Mary is not what the Church believes Virgin in Greek means a woman unmarried . So a Virgin birth is possible but not necessarily true.

    1. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So one needs to become a bible scholar/ history major in order to understand the kingdom of God? The thing that shakes me about "discovered" mistranslations of scripture is that the word gets out that the bible is not worthy of much trust. How on earth could that be??? We learn about Jesus where??? We learn about his character where??? We learn what God expects where??? So, anyone considering having faith in God has nowhere to go but men of today? Are they possibly accurate without biblical instruction? Please tell me.
      Jesus didn't say love your neighbor!!! He said RUB your neighbors. Sounds silly to me...

  14. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    You cannot tell me that no other accounts of Jesus exist outside of the bible. I just know...
    I do not need evidence that Jesus was here. I feel it!!! wink that is all the proof I need actually.  I believe. But the bonus is that I have been provided with many life experiences to confirm.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Understood.  You "just know" things without ever knowing them.  And you do not need evidence for "proof" that is satisfactory to you. 

      We knew that already.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If you just remove, "without ever knowing them" you'd have yourself a true statement.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          What you are essentially saying is that you don't care whether or not your beliefs are true as long as they make you feel good and you like them.   I cannot respect that position.

          1. 0
            Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No. She's saying that she knows her beliefs are the truth and has her own proof And does not need yours to the contrary. Quite simple, actually

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              "I feel it!!! wink that is all the proof I need actually."

              I know that is not proof.  Cgenaea knows that is not proof.  You know that is not proof.  What it is is a decision to accept as true whatever makes her feel good.  Quite simple, actually, and the proof of THAT statement is that she does not make non-religious decisions the same way.  She knows better.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Honestly, the truth does not always afford me a "happy" disposition. smile I sometimes get really down about the truth actually. But I cannot deny that truth to make me "happy" again. I must pray and conform to that truth for my happiness. Now you all may have a different method of what is denied for happiness but I must walk my own walk. I feel quite steady actually.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What she has said is we need to turn off our intellect to imagine God. I can imagine all kinds of things, I do it for a living, but none of our imaginations are real unless we can back them up with evidence. I can't sell a client on a concept unless I show it to her/him.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Hmmm... you may show them the final product.  But the intricacies of how you did it remain a mystery to them??? Or do you show them your entire process so that they may not need you next time???
                Simply put; do they have faith that you can do the job? Do your satisfied customers continue to search for one who can do it better? Just think for a second before you respond wink

            3. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I get very confused with Cgenaea's responses.  He or she does not remain consistent.  One moment I feel, "Ah, here is some logical, intelligent point of view, well expressed, coherent."   Then, sometimes within the same post, he/she goes into illogical argument that leaves me wondering, "Is this person mentally stable?"
              If I felt something genuine about this person, (is she/he suffering some kind of psychosis, for example), then I can warm to those needs and tread gently towards him/her. 
              If, on the other hand, he/she is playing us along, just to create argument, without any solid base of learning and education, then I suggest this entire hub and thread is a sham.  That is the reason I offer very few replies here, and only on rare occasions.
              Will now go to a new Discussion which has just occurred to me.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Ok jonny, SHE is in the room! wink and SHE does not have the least bit of concern about what he/she thinks about her mental capacity.  SHE is well aware that a debate in Christian subjects requires some brain and SHE rises to each challenge. smile it is also well understood by SHE that the topic of debate is not an easy pill to swallow; but SHE is willing to stay in the room screaming the same darn thing repeatedly until SHE has no more. Or until she is booted again for being LIKEWISE stern in her opinions. smile

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I cannot respect a position of angst against God. I cannot respect a position of superiority for education's sake. And I really cannot respect one who thinks he knows because somebody ELSE told him the "real" truth; and talked about their so-called evidence in books that refute the very existence of Jesus. It's almost laughable.

            1. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              1. You cannot in all likelihood have angst against a character that you don't believe exists

              2. My inability to respect your position is against your position,  not you.   Yet your inability to respect a position seems to include the person,  as well.

              3. I don't have to rely on what I've been told, and I don't have a need to fall back on faith.  The information,  research,  documents,  history,   archeology etc. are all out there for anyone to research and discover.   If your fall back position is faith, then all you're basically saying is that you have no proof or evidence.  If you did,  blind faith would not be necessary.

              4. I cannot prove conclusively that a person named jesus did not exist,  nor would I want to.   But my inability and unwillingness to prove a negative does not,  by default,  prove the contrary.   You believe in a historical jesus for no other reason than because the Bible says he does, and the Bible does not claim to be a history book.  You cannot provide any extra biblical sources because you don't know of any, and you don't care to educate yourself on what you yourself claim is the most important thing in your life.   How can you not want to know everything there is to know about it, if it's important enough for you to come on he day after day and preach about it in your ignorance?   You demonize education and scholarship,  and criticize anyone who is more well versed than you are - even if they share your belief in god.  That's prue and simple arrogance

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                1. One does not study, for MANY years (and I do mean many) about a mythical character.  Unless of course...

                2. I'm sorry that I did not clearly underline that my disrespect was for the position and in no way the person.

                3. AGAIN, whose "report" do you believe?  It does not matter that one oozes with evidence about something unreal. When it comes to matters of faith in God, no one can prove or disprove any of it.  It takes faith also to believe the other books/accounts/ so-called evidence.  Don't you see??? Many people want to do away with God and his instruction.  It's been like that a long time. We could find anything from any period and stamp a debunker certification on the front.

                4. I love education and scholarship smile it's a wonderful tool for figuring out math problems and stuff. But it just does not work for the kingdom of God. Nietzsche cannot tell me about Jesus. Neither can Crowley. However, the one little book in question is full of information about him. Every time I hear, "that was a mistranslation," or, "Jesus did not live or die." My knees shake. He is real to me. He spoke for God. And he showed us how to live. We are here to stay. Until...

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  1. I've explained this to you before.  Maybe you just weren't paying attention.  When I was studying the Bible and theology in college, I was a Christian.  I wanted to be a missionary.  A lot of the information that I have provided in the forums is what is taught at CHRSTIAN college when learning basic apologetics.  You're taught to spin doctor it so it doesn't sound so bad or scary - but very few people in the field of biblical scholarship will reject these facts outright.  They are what they are - and it's information that's coming from YOUR side as well as the secular side, yet you refuse to accept it because you don't like it and it may make you a tad uncomfortable.  A lot of people are like that, but those people aren't considered to be intellectually honest.

                  Now that I'm going back to school for a degree in History, it is IMPOSSIBLE to study history without studying the culture and the religious beliefs and origins of the people of whatever time period you're studying.  Since my focus is on ancient history and European History, a lot of that focus rests on Christianity.  It interests me.  People study things all the time.  If someone studies ancient Greek culture, for example, does that mean that they must belief in Zeus or else they wouldn't be studying it?  Many Christian debaters spend year studying Judaism or Islam so that they can better understand their opponents and possibly witness to them.  Does that mean that they believe in those other religions?  By your logic, it seems that they must.  Studying something from an intellectual standpoint does not mean that you have to believe it is necessarily true - and there is a christian example of this.  The Creation Research Institute tells their students to lie about their Christian beliefs and to get their degrees in scientific fields, which means studying and taking tests on evolution.  They don't believe evolution is true, but in order to get a scientific degree, studying it is necessary.

                  2.  Thanks for Clarifying.

                  3. It isn't about believing "reports".  Its' about studying and investigating various claims for yourself in order to find out whether or not they're true.  When I was in Christian college, I began to have doubts - but I didn't automatically turn into an atheist overnight.  I spent years researching the claims of Christianity, comparing it with other claims, and researching the history behind it.  That's part of the reason that I have such an interest in the subject - because I love history.  All history.  We don't have to have faith in evidence.  Evidence is proof enough whether or not the claims are true.  We don't have to accept that evidence on faith.  We can test it.  It can be demonstrated and proven.  That's the difference between faith and knowledge.

                  4. So you love education, unless its in a subject that may disagree with your predetermined beliefs.  Again, intellectually dishonest.

                  When did you become a Christian, CGenaea?  Why did you become one?  What information did you gather, and what research did you do in order to come to the conclusion that Christianity was the correct religion and you should believe in it?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Let me also clarify that I have no notion that studied materials necessarily make up a person's belief system. Faith is the operative word. Faith is belief without eyewitness.  I have faith that God is above. I believe Jesus lived and died and lived again. You have faith to the contrary.  Or at least that it is more likely, untrue based upon the evidence you have seen (or more than likely NOT seen) that someone uncovered for you. I know from our last conversation about this that you don't like calling YOUR unseen belief faith but that is just what it is. Fix the definition any way preferred.
                    Many people make it through bible college without shaken faith; or handing it over. I wonder what happened. Then again, I'm clear. It no longer made you happy...so it was necessary to quit liking it.  smile (sounds silly don't it?)
                    I know that you once adored the God of Abraham to the point of devoting a lifetime of study to him only to "find" good evidence that he is not???  Sorry to hear that...

              2. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                In #4, you did kinda imply that she didn't

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you'd just use your intellect rather than your imagination you'd see the light.

      1. Zelkiiro profile image84
        Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        To be perfectly fair, it's very likely that there was a historical Jesus. After all, movements like Christianity have to be spring-boarded by someone, and it's not unreasonable to suggest that someone was a popular rabbi named Jesus. He would've just been a rabbi with some crazy ideas (Put aside material desires and give to the poor? Better keep this guy a secret from Joseph McCarthy.) who was arrested as a political dissident and executed.

        Now, where the bullcrap starts flying in is when people claim this guy was Human!God and cured diseases that didn't even exist at the time and was less dense than water and had a 3-day cooldown self-resurrection spell.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Does that mean there was an Adam and Eve, along with the talking snake, to springboard Judaism?

          'Cause I really have serious doubts about that one!

          1. Zelkiiro profile image84
            Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Judaism is a bit different from Christianity, though. Judaism is a belief system based on a large collection of oral history and myths (such as the tales you've alluded to) and a series of laws believed to have been written down by Moses.

            Christianity, however, revolves exclusively around one guy and his purported divine deeds, with innumerable texts written about him (most of which were censored or dismissed by the Council of Nicaea), so it makes sense for there to be some real-life figure at the center of it all, similar to the legends of King Arthur or Beowulf--it's extremely likely that someone inspired those stories, and even more likely that the reality would look absolutely nothing like the legend. In fact, with other messiahs running around like Apollonius of Tyana, it's even more reasonable to suggest there could have been another so-called messiah named Jesus. The only real difference is that one got a religion based off of him and the other didn't. And they're not the only ones--look at this shyte!

      2. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I don't want your light.  Thanks anyway.

  15. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    Just to remind everybody that the topic is "All revealed religions in the origin are truthful".Please

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Ok. Just on that topic - the premise is wrong.  All the religions are not in agreement.  In my opinion, none of the major religions have grasped and understood  the original and central objective, i.e., helping every individual to connect with One-ness of the universe.  Those enlightened individuals who have taught the central truths, have all been misunderstood, even The Buddha.
      If the religions had understood and taught truth, then we would not be having any disagreement in this Hub.

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Since there is no compulsion in religion; everybody believes or disbelieves on one’s own will; hence there are disagreements and corruptions yet the core teachings of revealed religions remain the same and  by believing in the One-True-God the believers get connected to the Oneness.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Oneness, like how well Muslims and Christians get along?

          1. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oneness of purpose of life.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The purpose of life for Muslims is to make all people Muslims.
              The purpose of life for Christians is to make all people Christians.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The purpose of life for chimpanzees? smile

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Is that the way you see the world?
                  Muslims, Christians and Chimps?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes!!! And I have a very special Rad category sitting off to the side wink
                    please laugh, no offense.

              2. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I thought my purpose for life was to live it the best I can, be a good boy, and love people. Thanks for revealing my real purpose... Wanna be a Christian?

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I guess you're not a true Christian then. Tisk, tisk.

                  1. 0
                    Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow... I guess not.

              3. 70
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I never said it; and it is not related to the topic.

              4. bBerean profile image58
                bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I can't speak for Muslims, but regarding the Christians, your definitely incorrect. 

                Are we to share the gospel?  Absolutely. 

                "Make all people Christians"?  Absolutely not. 

                There are folks we are not even encouraged to bother discussing it with, and we certainly are not held accountable for making anyone a Christian.  We couldn't if we wanted to, so if anybody tells you they "saved" anyone, rest assured they don't even understand how that works.  I don't get any Brownie points if you sign up, and don't lose any if you don't. 

                Good thing, huh?  wink

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  If you don't even get a single brownie point for a new sign-up, then please, please stop offering the pen and dotted line.  As a group, not you personally.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Never!!! The pen and dotted line will be available to you for the rest of your days. Now, how many of those are there???
                    You dont know you say? ...

          2. 70
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oneness of human purpose of life in revealed religions is mentioned as follows:

            [1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
            [1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
            [1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
            [1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
            [1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
            [1:6] Guide us in the right path —
            [1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

            https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

  16. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Depends I guess on whether or not "in the origin" has any meaning for you individually. To me, it kind of throws something off (I don't know what). Please explain what in the origin actually refers to. We do not all agree about what the beginning is. We spoke briefly about core messages but again that differs as well it seems from person to person.

  17. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    My heart is so warmed. I know you ALL know why. My father is here. smile
    I do love you very much bcuz of our kinship.  We ARE family (agree or no). <3

  18. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I believe that heaven and hell exists. But no cause of "worry" for me. Anyone "worried" about hell?

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I actually doubt that very many are worried about hell.  Those that don't believe in it are obviously unworried while those that DO believe think it is only for someone else so are also unworried.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        So maybe the best recommendation is that we all get together for a dirty rotten night of debauchery, then we can all go to Hell.  Otherwise it's going to be a very lonely place, if we are all so pure and innocent as to never get there. 
        How about  a Hub Pages Hangout.  Any one of us can nominate just one Hubber for Membershp. Only one requirement for entry: you got to be Evil.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ive been thru a few years of hell... at least 5 years, and to say that it was lonely is an understatement. I cannot express to you the darkness of this time. I know that I am not alone in this b/c life is like that sometimes. Even if hell were to be without fire etc... I could not imagine an eternity without hope. Have you ever felt hopeless? That alone is enough to make me think a thousands nights of debauchery would not only *not be worth it... it would add to the loss of hope and light. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image87
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            My post was, of course, totally in jest, Beth, but I warm to your story of reality and with every respect.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I knew you were kidding. I guess the subject, as you can see, is very real to me. Thanks for allowing me to share.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for sharing.  It allows for camaraderie and hope that if you "made it" we can make it too. Darkness has fallen across my land (in my best Vincent Price voice) many times.
                Yes, life is like that.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hang in there... you know what to do, do those things. Don't give up, it wont last forever.

        2. Zelkiiro profile image84
          Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, dammit. My alignment is Chaotic Neutral.

          Sorry, guess I can't make it.

        3. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Pure and innocent??? Shoooot wink me???
          I can hang with the BEST of them (my cross). However, truth is held tightly. I have no "shame" because God has forgiven me for the 10,789,123,753.8th time and he promised to hold me as I get closer to his ideal for me. (What...? I'm makin good strides lol). Jesus covers and comforts along the way. Man may only point crooked fingers.

  19. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Are there also parts of the Koran which should be ignored?

    1. 70
      paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If there are parts that seemingly contradict with the core beliefs, unless aligned with the core, should be ignored.
      There is a thumb rule; anything which contradicts with the Al-Fatihah- the first chapter of the Qur'an should be understood within the meaning of this short chapter of only seven verses should be ignored.
      This is true for all the  revealed religions of the One-True-God Allah Yaweh; whether Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Got it. So why is the Qur'an not only 7 verses long? It just seems weird that we have holy books with so much "filler" and laypeople are expected to sort through all the "gobbledygook" to sift out the needed information. How in the world...? God is not the author of confusion.  To me, he authored the bible; and attended all the chapter/verse edit meetings with a big gavel.  I am throwing NO SCRIPTURE OUT. It all works together.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Would you throw out the gospels of Mary, Peter, Judas, etc.?  Or would you include them even though they were discarded at Nicaea as Gnostic teachings, hardly fit for the church composed of bishops, priests, etc.?

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Don't know nothing about no book of Mary or Judas.  Nut'n Honey wink You must go after that info seeking it out. Too busy seeking God rather than seeking out his "lie" to me.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              To each their own.  Some what information and truth, some want to feel good and be happy.

              If it keeps you happy and content to not know everything possible then that's probably what you should aim for.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Information and truth is the smokescreen for seeking a loophole.  Many people are afraid to not measure up on the last day and end up in hell. They are afraid that since their desire outweighs what they consider good enough for God; it is much better to "discover" that "he is a fraud anyway!!!" Not many people realize how God works. Maybe they are too busy looking in the wrong corners and throwing out scriptures. But hey, to each his own...

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Truth does not make a loophole.  If it shows such a thing, it can only show it, not provide or make it.

                  Yes, people are afraid.  Which is the biggest reason they believe what makes them feel good, that soothes the fear, rather than what is real. 

                  You're right - not many people realize how God works.  Probably because they make up what they want God to be instead of searching out what He really is.  That "feel good" thing again rather than truth and fact.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "God" is still only what a person believes in his/her mind.   Nothing more real than that.

                    Probably the biggest and most frequently used placebo in the world.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The lie is the feel good tonic. People prefer it these days. The bible promised they would. If the bible is truth (and I fully believe it is); then all else that goes against it is a loophole lie. smile
                    It "feels good" to release the pressure of having to be "good enough" and makes you "happy" when "do what thou wilt" is your motto. wink whew!!! Lets us off the hook don't it???
                    God's instruction is strictly to love him above all else; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Sometimes we'd rather just be selfish; and stand on the heads of others to get ahead; or back stab; or steal because we feel entitled. When our conscience says, "whoa, God said..." we may quiet that urging with a God who? bandaid. And then feel "happy" again. The truth is found in scripture.

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I give here the first chapter Al-Fatiha of Qur'an:

        [1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
        [1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
        [1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
        [1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
        [1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
        [1:6] Guide us in the right path —
        [1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

        https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

  20. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Hello.  I really would like to know if the Koran contains throw away information too.

    1. Zelkiiro profile image84
      Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That would be all the bollocks about efreets and djinn.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Are you Muslim? Though I guess/assume not from your response.  smile
        Edit: not that it majorly matters. I wanted his opinion since he's tossing out biblical information.

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It is not a core belief.

    2. 70
      paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Core teachings of Qur'an should be ascertained and the narratives which do not belong to the core should be interpreted within the core.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        wink did you notice that this time you did not use the word "ignored"?

        1. 70
          paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Earlier, I think I mentioned the same for teachings of Jesus.
          If you please I will amend my words.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I noticed that the bible and Qur'an sometimes agree.  But my take is that no words can be stricken from the bible.  I don't know much of the Qur'an. But are there words there that confirm that some of it should be ignored? Jesus said not one dot or tittle may be stricken.

            1. 70
              paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus' words were for the Revelation he received from the One-True-God not for whatever has been compiled after him.

              1. Zelkiiro profile image84
                Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Can you please just come up with a shorter nickname for the deity you believe in? One-True-God-Allah-Yahweh is just exhausting and obnoxious.

                How about Allweh? Then I can point and laugh and say, "'Allweh,' eh? Well, I suppose you can allwehs call him 'Al'!"

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The One-True-God is known by His attributes and many proper names in different languages; in Arabic language it is Allah:

                  [7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do

                  https://alislam.org/quran/search2/showC … ;verse=180

                  I don't find any obnoxiousness in it; sorry.

              2. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I must agree with you there. smile
                The words compiled after him were of him and his ministry.  We get the picture of his thought processes (the way we should think) from the new. The cultural preferences are important.  People get a glimpse of how difference works for or against. We get to see what worked.  And how the earliest practices were employed.  We were given instruction on how to be flexible with our brother;  as in not eating the sacrificial meat if it caused problems with your brother's faith. We were taught in the NT how to be righteous. How to not be righteous. It all works together.

  21. 0
    Beth37posted 2 years ago

    "for the interest of the public and to cater them; they should be ignored."

    This was the statement that I disagreed with.

  22. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Has anyone noticed that the insults hurled at my shield have evolved from a constant downpour of "you're a liar"; to you're delusional; to you're ignorant;  and nowadays it's, "you just want to FEEL happy" ??? Are there weekly bulletins on how to insult the Christian posted somewhere? I've noticed that it is done pretty much in a united fashion.

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image62
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Are you sure they are bulletins for Christians or bulletins for Cgenaea?

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Now cgenaea is better. To think that an entire group is dedicated to such preparation for one... and that one is me??? wink I would be honored.

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "you just want to FEEL happy" is an insult? Who knew?

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        See how subtle...? It diminishes or belittles the walk of faith in God for the public eye. You didn't know that feelings don't count??? Right is right. (Ok yes it makes me happy ok?) But how can it not? Happiness is the result of the blessed assurance; not the motivation for the silly assertion that i made this up. I'm creative, but not even I am THIS good. smile

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You obviously are that good. Take credit where do.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Due credit is not my own. It belongs to you. It is your fantastic observation. Mine is more realistic.

        2. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I've seen court shows (think "Judge Judy") where one or both claimed to be of God (pastor, maybe) and therefore automatically assumed to be truthful and in the right.

          I've seen hundreds/thousands of craiglist posts from people selling things "from a Christian home" as if that means they won't rip off a buyer.

          I've had many people just mention, in passing, that they are Christians in order to convince the listener they are not trying to scam them.  Even the scammer emails from all over the world say that about half the time.

          I'd therefore say that perhaps the "walk of faith in God" DOES need diminished in the public eye.  It does NOT give the speaker any special powers or attributes; those "walking in faith with God" are no better people than anyone else.  Maybe such a statement does need to be belittled a little and bring those self righteous people back to earth.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe they were lying?

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image62
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Now, you know how the rest of us think about people who say the talk with God. smile

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I think you missed my point. If someone claims one thing, then does the opposite, that is kind of the definition of lying, right?

                So if someone says they are a Christian in order to have you feel safe with them so that they can take advantage of you, that would be a scam.

                So when David Hampton convinced ppl that he was Sidney Poitier's son, do you then blame Sidney Poitier or his other children? Or do you say... "David Hampton is a liar."?

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image62
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Seems more the definition of hypocrisy. Lying would be more like telling everyone they have conversations with God.

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Someday you will too.

            2. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe they were; IMHO people often do.

              But it is irrelevant.  Whether lie or truth it does NOT make them a better person, any more likely not to harm others.  Witness the Catholic priests with their child abuse.  Of the JW crowd, with holding simple medical treatment until their child dies.  Or the TV mogul preachers, rolling in their millions of $$ collected from the rubes believing in them.

              Whether people claim to walk with God, or (as near as I can tell as no one knows if another actually spoke with the Lord) actually do so, it does not make them better people as a whole.

          2. 0
            Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This is a very interesting statement. Remember though that at the end of the arguments, the judge makes the final ruling of who is right in relation to the letter and intent of the law. Sometimes one person wins, sometimes both won, sometimes neither side wins. Ultimately, no matter how many arguments each side comes up with, reality of whether God exists or not will be the final judge depending on what happens next. If God does exist (out of respect, though I do believe), he will make the final call as to who truly followed his intent. If not, then what does it matter because we'll all be gone anyway

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The point was that an awful lot of people make a point of their religion in an obvious bid to convince a listener that just because of that, that they are better people.  Won't lie in court, won't scam anyone and would never cheat a buyer all because they attach that magical "Christian" label to themselves. 

              Personally, it just makes me reach for my wallet to protect it, not because I distrust Christians particularly but because so many use it in order to run a scam.  Either way, the claimant needs brought back to earth.

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I got your main point, and I didn't disagree. But that one point ultimately created another one.

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It often does.  But your last line, "If not, then what does it matter because we'll all be gone anyway" I have to take exception to.  The comment is very plainly saying that what we do doesn't matter because we'll all die anyway - rape, child abuse, murder, theft - nothing matters.

                  Not something I can agree with, not even in the slightest.  What we do matters a great deal to us and to those around us.

                  1. 0
                    Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh no. I didn't mean it like that. Forgive me on that one. Of course we still want to be ethical and moral in our treatment of others here no matter what happens at the end of this life. Sorry for that

          3. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            People of God have the attributes of Jesus but are human. Jesus, having been spawned by God was able to set a marvelous example.  Those who love God follow the example and obey the commands as much as humanly possible.  The bible lets us know how to spot the yeas.
            So we're clear, one may only TRY to diminish. Some will buy it.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              This pretty much opens the door for Christians to do just about any deplorable sin that they desire....then just claim that they fell short of Jesus' marvelous example.  What a scam.

              1. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Not entirely. Though some may try to use it in that manner, it is not a "Get out of hell free" card. The idea is that once you repent you do not willingly go forth and do whatever you want. It's basically an admonishment to live a good and moral life. Willful immorality is not covered like that. You can't go out, rob someone, repent, then go rob someone else. The intentions of the person will be considered at the end

              2. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                God knows which is which.

                1. 70
                  paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't get you; please elaborate.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That phoney Christianity used as a manipulation may fool a person or two but God knows the truth in each. He is never fooled. And no one will get away with it.

            2. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I wonder what that person you call Jesus would have said to anyone, in his lifetime, if they had tried to portray him as a perfect man of god, without sin, without fault, without blemish.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I do believe we have a few examples.  I would check with the theif hanging near Jesus at the end of his life first; then work my way back.

              2. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Matthew 27:46 is a pretty good indication that Jesus was not the perfect man as described.  No one believing their god has abandoned them, and making that belief public, can be without fault.

  23. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    Just to remind that the topic of the thread is "All revealed religions in the origin are truthful".
    Please focus on the topic.
    Thanks

    1. 0
      Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      We are still on subject, somewhat. While I applaud your attempt at thinking to keep us on topic, religion is one of those things that so many subtopics can be discussed, but they can still fall under the main one

      1. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Please don't blame religion for that; it is a human fault that could be improved.

        1. 0
          Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nobody was blaming religion. My statement is not solely limited to religion. A sub topic does not change the subject. A sub topic is just a side road that is still part of the journey. At times the detour is necessary. Again, I applaud your efforts, but you cannot control and direct areligious discussion in general and in an open forum in particular. A majority of side conversations are equally as relevant to the main subject.

        2. 0
          Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And critical thinking in the exploration of discussions is not a human fault. It is a natural inclination generated be curiosity of the complexities of the human mind and life in general. If that is "improved" in the manner in which you want to keep it focused on one thing, that removes the complexity of the mind, thus brainwashing people.

        3. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Without humans, religion is baseless anyway..No god ever invented religion.

          1. Disappearinghead profile image90
            Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That I believe is the truth of it. All religions consist of a load of man made rules and ceremonies. This doesn't preclude the existence of God that is above all the clamour. Now how determine the truth of this God is quite another thing.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Just curious, if we throw all religions out the window what do you have left that points to any God? Speculation?

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Does meditation point to the god of self?  Other "spiritual" mental activities?  ("spiritual" because I have no other term for what I'm trying to say)

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting point. I don't think meditation (focusing on one thing) has anything to do with any spirit or spirits. The spirits would only be a distraction from ones focus.

                2. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I would say yes to that, because for me the pursuit of full consciousness and awareness starts with understanding one's self and one's motivations.  Out of that awareness can come a pure love for neighbours who are going through their own personal search for meaning.   This also works for me when I warm to the needs of a very religious person, regardless of whether I agree with that person's pronouncements.

              2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I honestly don't know. I cannot accept Islam because of its barbaric laws, Judaism because of all the ceremonies and laws, Christianity (as popularly understood) because of its bizarre definition of God and pseudo supernatural experiences.

              3. 0
                Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Not entirely. What it appears that DPH is referring to is organized religion that has ritualsa and doctrines that are exclusionary to some people and carry a mob mentality that only they are right and the people that are part of the organization are safe. If you get rid of all of that, you still have personal faith which brings religion back to a personal philosophy. You also still have some of the core elements of the Bible that generally get overlooked (in somecases) in favor of the hateful, ddogmatic negativity

                1. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I couldn't have put it better myself Deepes.

                  1. 0
                    Deepes Mindposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Good to know I wasn't too far off the mark DPH

  24. getitrite profile image80
    getitriteposted 2 years ago

    “Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
    presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
    evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
    extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
    is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
    ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
    ― Frantz Fanon, Black Skin, White Masks

  25. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Sometimes people hold a certain faith in God until one day, they don't get what they want. All hell breaks loose. Adversity is seen as the proof that there could not be a God who would allow this to happen. Therefore the conclusion based from the disappointment is disbelief. But who wants such a manipulative love???

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And some people actually grow up, and understand that there are ups and downs in life, which means that it would be absurd to become disappointed at imaginary mythical characters, or have faith in a childish fairy tale. You need to move on from this asinine and dishonest mindset.  Your beliefs are just as illogical without anyone being disappointed.  To be disappointed in an imaginary character would be just as childish as your ridiculous beliefs. Unbelievable!

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yet every last one of your posts assert with fierce anger at the bleeping absurdity that is God. It baffles me. How could one respond with such ferocity at mythology? It just appears that it affects the mood of your posts from an extremely personal viewpoint causing overkill. I mean you seem to stab at this air 56 fatal times instead of the just 1 fatal blow. The courts would call it a crime of passion.  That is something that illustrates "personal" attachment.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You just refuse to let go of your distorted mindset, although it has been explained that no one is mad at your imaginary God.  I am, however, livid at those who are behind this fraud.  Can you fathom the difference, or will you, mindlessly, continue to parrot the same abject fraudulent assertion as before?  NO ONE IS MAD AT YOUR IMAGINARY GOD>>>
          There....you have been corrected.  Insanity is repeating the same nonsense over and over, even after it has been found to be false.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Tell me about it. In my mind, which leans toward spirit, there is absolutely no way that God does not exist.  If you ask me, it would be absurd to think otherwise. It is unequivocally truth that The One True God is on his throne in heaven listening to your heart.
            Please do not be mad at me for standing behind my truth. You adamantly stand behind yours. Can't we all just get along??? You go your way...

  26. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    What? No snazzy tag for the unwitnessed (definitely not eyewitnessed) evidentiary claim that the biblical account is a large false-flag?

  27. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Confirmation bias works both ways. There is plenty that directly points to the existence of God. But that data is seen as impossible because someone else with a -more acceptable-opinion is believed instead.  Confirmation bi...

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is zero objective evidence that directly points to the existence of God.  Only "evidence" that has been filtered through, and grossly affected by, the emotions of the "observer". 

      Don't forget, the first step of critical thinking is to remove all bias, all beliefs and all desires for a particular conclusion from the equation.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Im surprised...

    2. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Even if there is evidence that points to the existence of some kind of transcendent and intelligent higher reality, if anything, it does not lead anywhere to Western religious figures...

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Question - what is a "higher" reality?  I mean, what makes it "higher" than our reality?

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          How else is one to describe that entity?  Higher seems a satisfactory description to my way of thinking.  It's metaphor, analogy, whatever you like to think.   

          If we see our current physical state as being limited to what we can perceive with our senses, a nd anything that we cannot perceive as beyond the senses, then it's reasonable to see it as a "higher" state.

          Admittedly any perception is therefore totally subjective to the beholder, and unarguable because none of us has a common knowledge and understanding of that "higher" state. Every one's view/imagination of it will differ from the next person's.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I just find that perpetual description rather amusing.  It is a relative term, not absolute, and the reverse, from the other state's viewpoint, is just as valid.

            Given that creatures in a different "dimension", "reality" or "universe" are as unlikely to see us as we are them, I don't see them as "higher".  Given that both the "alternate reality" and any intelligence there will have their own limitations, and that some of those are likely to be our strengths, I don't see them as "higher". 

            It's just a little amusing that everyone is always looking for and claiming existence of something "higher" (better?  superior by some undefined standard?) than themselves.  Much like claiming the ET above our planet has to have a better moral structure because of it's power, just before it unleashes the death ray and starts sucking all the water from the oceans. smile

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Fair enough.... I can see your points of view, logical.

            2. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But you see Wilderness, it is a term that I use because our language is so lacking.

              I don't necessarily mean "higher reality" in a sense that it some how surpasses our morality, because I don't even see morality as a lone standing entity that "exists." I don't mean the "my thoughts are higher than your thoughts and my ways are higher, etc" type stuff you find in the Bible and other religious books/religions. What I mean is similar to what Johnny said. A reality beyond our immediate perceptions. But I think he and I may differ there, if I understand his standing, because I don't think it is a separate reality or Universe. I don't necessarily buy into other dimensions (although I don't know the research, so I can't say). But what I speak of is aspects of our current reality that are hard for us to perceive BUT not impossible. Actually it's everywhere around us. There more you magnify anything you can find on this planet, the fewer differences and separations you'll find. If you look at everything on an atomic level, every single thing, you'll find a whole lot of empty space. Why? What holds us together. Observe everything, and look at the reoccurring patterns that are everywhere.

              The higher reality that I speak of is less of a separate being, and more of the freedom from the illusion of how we currently see reality. It is the origin and nature of Universe, it is the Universe itself. And we and everything else is a part of that. Whatever "that" is.

              I can't really explain the concept that well.

              But I have a video you should watch that may help me get some of my point across. This is about a brain scientist that experienced a stroke, and then shared that experience in this TED talk.

              http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_tay … sight.html

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I understand and in many ways agree with you.  There are facets of our universe and reality we haven't even thought of yet - probably more than we have thought of.

                In addition, I use the same verbiage, "higher this or that" myself because there is nothing else that fits any better.  I just find it comical, that's all, even when I do it myself.  It is not "higher" in any sense of the word, after all.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  When you watch the vid, tell me what you think. smile

          2. J - R - Fr13m9n profile image85
            J - R - Fr13m9nposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This is a quote from a free publication entitled "Natural Awakenings" (NaturalAwakeningsNJ.com), article entitled "Near Death Experiences" which I would like to share with your reading audience. The quote was said by Anita Moorjani and it states,"I was overwhelmed by the realization that God isn't a being, but a state of being...pure consciousness". That sentence is mind blowing! Think about what Anita Moorjani was trying to illustrate for all of us.

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image62
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              All we can do is imagine what Anita was trying to illustrate. What does that even mean? "Pure consciousness"?? "A state of being"?? "Mind blowing"?? Does she even know what she's talking about?

            2. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sounds biased to me... but I guess that's not important.

      2. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        But does Cgenaea even want to be convinced of that?

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Heck no... MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!! smile
          If we use the bible we have "evidence" galore.  But nobody wants to do that...and I'm SURE that it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with bias! wink

  28. 70
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    The topic of the thread is "All revealed religions in the origin are truthful". Please

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I would like to address that statement of yours a little more.

      If you mean the objective and the path of every "revealed" religion is the same, how can that be?  Do Islam and Christianity have the same objective?  They are both, to some degree, evangelistic.  Do they preach the same path to that objective?  Obviously not. 

      Compare Hinduism and Buddhism.  Do they have the same clear objective?  For the individual human being?  Do they espouse the same path?  The same religious practices?  I don't think so.

      However, if you look at the lives (as we are led to understand their historical accuracy) of each of the original proponents of each religion, it seems to me they had something very much in common.

      They had learned to meditate.  This means to go into that still, quiet, infinite space where one can view the physical universe of Life in its complexity and its unity.  Buddhism teaches this today, so does Hinduism.  Christianity, when stripped of its religiosity, also teaches this.  I suspect, although I have only scraped the surface of that study, Mohammed himself also knew what it meant to go away alone and meditate.

      This meditation is sometimes seen as the prayer which churches practice in public, within worship.  True meditation is far from such trivial practice.  Can you imagine a "god" patiently listening to the repetitive chants and words uttered day after day, week after week, as though they have some magical way of opening the charitable thoughts and actions of that "god?"  I would not regard such a god as worth my time.  Certainly not "him" having any interest in my person; a mere speck of biological formation, lost in the sea of the universe.

      That meditation goes to the center of the universe.   It opens the door, for anyone who practises it, a door to an infinite well of knowledge and consciousness.  It leads to an awareness of Complete Union, Integration, One-ness.   No division.  No argument.  No arrogance.  No fighting.   No doubts.

      No need for different "faiths" or "Religions."  And for this reason I have distanced myself from any religion which puts the human species on a pedestal and calls it "god's special" gift to the world.  We are nothing if separated by our own ego from the entire Unity of the World.

      And all this has been written while I am alone, on "Christmas" morning!!!!

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "And for this reason I have distanced myself from any religion which puts the human species on a pedestal and calls it "god's special" gift to the world."

        And what has it been replaced with???
        I am really curious. I am somewhat distanced from religion myself, though I cannot deny God. What have you put in place of religion?
        And I am quite intrigued about your last statement here. Do you feel lonely? Is there no one willing to spend Christmas morning with you? Are you alone by choice? Or is it confirmation that your post contains only your view? Though trying to weigh as many possible motivations...are you feeling that "that world" owes you more than it is currently putting out???
        There are many people that surround me daily. I am in the basement "alone" though I can hear the presents rolling across the floor. smile

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            ... my point being that I can have a holistic view of the world which does not depend upon getting sucked into the lies/make-believe/commercialism of christmas.

            I will not even begin to discuss this aspect of my life with you.... it's my business, my choices which suit me and not available for any judgment.

          ".are you feeling that "that world" owes you more than it is currently putting out???"
          Not at all.  It owes me nothing more than I choose to put into the world.

          "There are many people that surround me daily. I am in the basement "alone" though I can hear the presents rolling across the floor. smile"
          So this begs the question of you, Cgenaea.  Why are you in the basement alone, chatting on the computer when you have children up stairs enjoying their toys?

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this




            I often wonder. What is worse? Not sharing so you won't be judged or judging those open enough to share.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Emile, some of my conclusions, for myself, have come from lots and lots of inward searching.  To argue the results of that searching would de-value my findings, for me.   I make no apology for this "selfishness."  Any such argument could never be proven for anyone else, so "my stuff in this case is my stuff."

              Yes, I stay away from petty argument from others who simply wish me to level with their points of view.  This is very similar to people with a christian perspective who do not wish to let go of their way of thinking.

              Comes back to personal choice again, a point which I have made numerous times.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well aint that about a blip. smile safely keeping your view which admittedly would never be proven for anyone else??? HA!!! At least I've got many many many backers on this issue; though many more opposers, at least someone says what I say. But you have no one? Right, keep it personal. They would eat you alive on this forum smile

                1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, well - it got you going didn't it......wink

                  1. Cgenaea profile image61
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    For sure. And "going" does not fully accomplish an enveloping description of my emotions at this point. Appalled (though nowhere near surprised) would probably be a better term.

          2. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Not only children; many others... I choose background, out of the way, and as much peace available. My choice... smile
            Not opening your view for others to annihilate or at least poke at is acceptable. Yet you annihilate exposed views of others. smile nice and safe but not fair. Right??? Just an observation; no real need to be fair...who's looking?

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Only when someone else tries to put their view as being the only "right' understanding and try to convert others to their "right" way.

              Apart from that I do respect the views of others.  Maybe not perfectly, but at least I try to live up to this standard.

              1. Cgenaea profile image61
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Have you been listening??? Respect the views...? Others putting views as only right ones??? What about the bible being the "view"? My religious views come from the bible. I did not write it. And I personally have not twisted anyone's arm about any of it.

      2. 70
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Your question:

        "Do Islam and Christianity have the same objective?"

        Paarsurrey answers:

        The modern Christianity is invented by Paul not by Jesus. It has nothing to do with Jesus.

        The objectives of Jesus and Muhammad are the same; they are not different from one another.

        It is time the Christians should realize it.

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Please tell me how Jesus and Paul differ. Not that I feel they are the same. Oh! Nor that Paul could be as perfect.

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, Jesus is said to have taught to turn the other cheek. Mohammad was a military leader who taught to kill.

          Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think he's right - both religions seek total conversion of all people; to force all people to follow the tenets of their religion.

            Of course, methods differ somewhat, as do those tenets.

            1. Cgenaea profile image61
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus forced nothing. Remember?  He was very gentle with man as far as conversion.  Now temple practice was different.  It angered him to see the thievery in the house of God.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, he got rather angry, didn't he?  And the use of force (force beyond what normal men could ever produce) was pretty evident.

                But, you know, there is force and there is force.  I force my grandkids to behave (most of the time) but it is not through use of physical force.  It is through love and caring instead, but that doesn't make it any less forceful; to many people that kind of "force" is far more effective. 

                The Christian religion, operating under the auspices of their god and it's worldly manifestation of Jesus, has chosen mental force.  Islam chose physical.  Same ultimate goal ("convince" everyone to follow the religion, whatever "force" is used) but different methods.

                1. Cgenaea profile image61
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You just gotta pick a side... or, stay on the side you are on.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Pretty much.  And in this part of the world there are 2+.  Christianity, reason, and to a lesser extent, Islam.  You take your pick.

                    If we could only convince everyone to make that choice ONLY for themselves instead of trying to make it for everyone around them.

    2. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      As you probably know, the religion debate ALWAYS includes many objections to the very existence of God. That must be hashed and rehashed until everyone is angry and/or gets booted for crazy-talk...but I digress (see how easy that is smile ) When people even hear the word religion, it wakes up the conscience. Unfortunately, the first thought for most after that awakening is, "that unproven stuff again!!! Let me go straighten these foolish zombies believing in that fairytale mess out!!!" They deny the religion core and all... for this group all the origin of any of it comes from an imaginary place. No, that does not keep them from joining a conversation about the religious mindset; it DRAWS them to it. God vs no God is the origin of mostly all religious debate between yeas and nays.

  29. Cgenaea profile image61
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I was waiting for a response...oh well, I guess she had to go change her persona. I can wait...

    1. Zelkiiro profile image84
      Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Huh. Minato and Yu can change their Persona at-will in less than a second.

      1. Cgenaea profile image61
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yet, I choose to stay me. I cannot fathom actually coming as someone or something else. Though, I have every right to be who or whatever I want here...truth is important to me.

        1. Zelkiiro profile image84
          Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Searching for the truth is valuable to Yu, as well--it is kinda the main theme of Persona 4, after all--but Shadows aren't just going to sit back and let you walk all over them. You need to switch Personas in order to summon Yoshitsune and cast the Ziodyne spell that will take out the minotaur in the back.

          1. Cgenaea profile image61
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, ok! Thanks wink

 
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