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How Bloody Sad is This?

  1. Disappearinghead profile image89
    Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago

    When my five year old daughter came from school this week she said one of her friends in class was crying because she wasn't allowed any Christmas presents and she wasn't allowed any birthday cards on her birthday. As you've probably guessed her parents are Jehovah's Witnesses. How is it possible that parents can be so cold and hard towards their children for the sake of religious doctrine? Have they no comprehension of the sadness and resentment they are manufacturing in their kids?

    1. profile image0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I don't like it either, but how is it our place to say they're right or wrong. There are Atheists who say "no presents at Christmas" cause they don't believe in God... and Christians who says, "no trick or treating cause it's dark celebration"... and Jews who say "no Christmas tree, we're not not Gentiles." I mean... it's a total bummer, but do they love their child? Do they hug her at night when they tuck her in and help her with her homework? Ppl are different... I didn't even get to the Amish (no internet!)

      1. Disappearinghead profile image89
        Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I've never heard of an atheist refusing to give or receive Christmas presents; that's a new one on me. Christians reject trick or treating out of wilful ignorance and superstitious fear. As for Jews not celebrating Christmas, well they don't purport to be Christians do they, unlike Jehovah's Witness's. Besides which my Islamic colleague was telling me about his two daughters being in the school nativity play; he was more than happy to put aside his different religious views for his kids to be happy.

        Jehovah's Witnesses may have their barmy anti-Christmas ideas, but children, their well being and happiness really ought to overrule religious doctrine to the right thinking person.

        1. tirelesstraveler profile image86
          tirelesstravelerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          These kids  must go to a parochial school, you won't find a nativity in any public school.

          1. profile image0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You mean the JW kids go to parochial school?

            1. tirelesstraveler profile image86
              tirelesstravelerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Dssapearing head's colleague's children. No wonder you couldn't figure who I was talking about.

          2. profile image0
            Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Quite possibly.  One of the parochial schools that belonged to my Catholic religious community (when I was a nun) had a larger enrollment of non-Catholics, predominantly Muslims.  It was largely due to the diversity of the neighborhood, the excellent academic quality of the school, and, believe it or not, the tolerance of the school for all religious belief and practice.

          3. Disappearinghead profile image89
            Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No they go to UK state schools where religion plays a formal part in education by law. Every infant school in the country does nativity plays, it's part of our culture whether the parents are theists or atheists.

            But that's not the point. The point is parents putting their religious beliefs before the happiness of their children.

          4. HowardBThiname profile image89
            HowardBThinameposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The nativity is to be found in many public schools. Think "Bible Belt." The children also since religious carols in their Christmas productions.

        2. GA Anderson profile image85
          GA Andersonposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It sure sounds like you are tying "well-bring and happiness" to gifts and birthday cards... or peer pressure to do what others do.

          I pass no judgement on JW - but I think every parent/family has a right to raise their kids in the ways they think are right.

          wait for it.... of course that does not include all those bad examples you folks will throw out now; abuse, beastiality, etc. etc.

          Just sounds like you think your idea of well-being and happiness is the only right one.

          GA

          1. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Come on man, buy the kid a present, it's good for the economy.

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image61
        EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Never heard that one before. Gift giving has more to do with St. Nicolas than God.

        1. profile image0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this
          1. EncephaloiDead profile image61
            EncephaloiDeadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Okay, is there some reason why you posted that link? It certainly doesn't support your claim in any way. Did you actually read it?

            1. profile image0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Good morning ED.

        2. Silverspeeder profile image59
          Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Presents at Christmas has more to do with the great god consumerism than anything else.

    2. Silverspeeder profile image59
      Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Isn't Christmas a religious doctrine then?

      I believe the holy roman church in the first century AD changed the celebration to a time and date around what it is now so that they could join in the celebrations of other gods within the roman calendar.

      And didn't Christ say don't celebrate my birth celebrate my death because this will set you free.

      Christmas has been blown out of all proportion since the birth of consumerism in the 19th century, even to the point where a fat imaginary red suited man sneaks into you children's rooms at night to give them a present. Bit creepy if you ask me.

      The legend of Santa Claus grew from the 4th century figure  Nikolaos of Myra a bishop who gave gifts to the poor, what a brilliant marketing idea those 19th century capitalists had. A sort of " you don't love your child if you don't spend $2000 on presents for them at Christmas.

      There are quite a few religions that don't celebrate Christmas and there are many people who do but haven't got an idea as to why.

      1. profile image0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I don't remember that one.

      2. DoubleScorpion profile image88
        DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this


        It was in the Fourth Century...And was first called the Feast of the Nativity. And they took the last day of the Roman celebration of Saturnalia and labeled it Christ's birthday in hopes of bringing the Pagans around to Christian thinking. Seems it worked fairly well...

        So Christmas is based in the Saturnalia festival...

        Just some added tidbits... smile

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Can't agree with you here - because Xmas was set to the date of Saturnalia doesn't mean it is based on that celebration.  Because it was designed and constructed to convert pagans doesn't mean it came from Saturnalia.  Xmas was created by Christians for the stated purpose of celebrating Christs birth and that doesn't mean it is rooted in Saturnalia.  Not even if the real reason was to convince pagans to join the church.

          Of course, it has changed so radically over the thousands of years that it is unrecognizable from what it's origins were.  Santa, Rudolph, Frosty, gifts, Xmas trees and lights - some were of pagan origin, some Christian and some purely secular to promote business (Santa and rudolph, for instance).  The end result is that Christmas is whatever people choose to make it today.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image88
            DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe I should clarify...

            Based in...As in dates of festival used, and parts of the festival included to assist in converting pagans. "The feast of nativity" (Birth of Christ) and the feasting of the festival. Private gift giving. and instead of celebrating the re-birth of the sun...it is just celebrating the birth of the son...

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Very early dates for Xmas vary widely.  Jan. 6 was a common early date for the celebration; even as the first recorded celebration on Dec. 25 (in 354 AD) was held Jan. 6 was already a common date in the eastern churches.  It wasn't until 200 years later that the church commissioned the monk Dionysius Exiguus to formally set the date as Dec. 25.

              Part of the reason for the date was that Sextus Africanus, Christian historian of the 3 century, calculated that Jesus died on Mar. 25.  Knowing that all prophets died on either the anniversary date of their birth or conception, he concluded that Dec. 25 (9 months later) was the date of Jesus' birth.  It did seem to take a while for this convoluted reasoning to be accepted, however. smile

              Nearly every celebration ever designed has included a feast - that doesn't make it pagan in origin.  People like to eat, and in ancient times when so many were either constantly hungry or starved it meant even more.

              Private gift giving was not a part of the early Christian celebration; that took hundreds of years to come about.

              A play on the modern English words sun and son (and spelling of same) certainly have zero to do with the reasons for the holiday.  Both sound and spelling have changed radically since Christmas originated.

              1. DoubleScorpion profile image88
                DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                True with the actual dates being slightly varied...

                And as far as the sun/son go...The Sun was worshipped as a God (rebirth of the light) the same as the son (light of the world) being a god as well...

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Doubt that anyone then connect the son with being the light of the world.  Sounds far too modern for that.  And if it was, it is merely metaphorical, not real, and would not be connected in that manner with the sun.

                  1. Zelkiiro profile image83
                    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Especially considering in Latin, the prominent language everywhere from 200 BC to 500 AD and still used until around 1700 AD, the words for sun (sol) and son (filius) are nothing alike.

                  2. DoubleScorpion profile image88
                    DoubleScorpionposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    The Book of John Chapter one...would disagree...and the latest that would have been written would have been the mid second century...

        2. profile image0
          Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          And for those Sheldon Cooper fans out there-"it's a Saturnalia miracle!"

          smile

    3. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That is rather sad. There are two things I hate,

      1. Those who are intolerant of others' cultures and or religions.
      2. The Jehovah's Witnesses.

      See what I did there?

      The only atheists who doesn't buy his/her family and friends gifts during Christmas are the stingy lonely ones.

      I also know some very religious people who are too cheap to buy presents and complain when they get them. I only know them because they are family, so I have to.

      So, in conclusion, go out and buy some crap that people don't need or what, but not for any religious purposes, but because it's good for the economy. After all that is what Christmas is about isn't it?

    4. profile image0
      christiananrkistposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      shes 5. of course she'll feel that way. i remember being younger than that and being sad because my dad wouldn't let me play with his hatchet. when her friend grows up, she probably wont thing much of at all. im all for people having compassion, but there are much worse things in life than this. also, maybe its a good lesson for the child that maybe everything you want and think you need in your life isnt necessary. not to mention life isnt always rainbows and butterflies.

    5. Silverspeeder profile image59
      Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Dear Santa

      I already have everything I could possibly wish for this year, I've got my family, good friends and plenty of love. Please take care of those who need you.
      Thanks
      Silverspeeder.

    6. Sinbadsailorman profile image56
      Sinbadsailormanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Many JW's give their children plenty of gifts. Just not on this Day for this reasoning. But It is the misconception of many that they are cheap or cruel for doing so to them. But such is their belief ! However wrong you or I think it is that they choose not to on this a Holy day.

      And I think it was mention here already but it truly wasn't Christ's Birth date that we actual celebrate. But in fact it is His conception from Heaven Unto Our World and this Planet for It meant a type of Death. And than a rebirth which every one here born of a woman has also undertook.

      From our spirit being of GOD into a flesh  Being of the Fallen son Satan's world. So it is the conception of GOD into a man that we celebrate unknowingly because it meant the Prophets and their scriptures were true and being fulfilled.

      The Sad thing is that the JW's and the Jews do not believe Jesus is the embodiment of GOD in the Flesh. And neither do the Muslims. Jesus is GOD with Us in the same condition as we were placed in to show us the way unto Salvation. GOD so Loved the World that HE gave His only Begotten SON to Die for Our Sins. Our original Sin of Failure to repent when it was needed and our Failure to confirm the True GOD instead of the false God Lucifer as Our Father and Creator.  Merry Christmas Never X out GOD whether HE is in your Past, Present, or your Future. Whether HE comes to you as the Father, the Son, or The Comforter. There are three Ages and There are three that the Human Mind associate with each age as the True GOD of us All.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No, the Jews do not believe Jesus was a god, and neither do the Muslims.  Nor the Buddhists, Shintoists or Hindus.  Or the Atheists, Sikhs or the Pagans.  None of the dozens of indigenous African or American religions carry that belief, and neither do the aborigines of Australia. 

        Actually, it is only the small minority of past and present world population known as Christians that have so sadly deluded themselves into believing a man was actually a god.

        1. Sinbadsailorman profile image56
          Sinbadsailormanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          And there you have It! The end times doctrine, there shall be a small majority with the truth of a thing and the whole world will be deceived and whore after the Beast and the Harlot.

          Without the belief in the story of the fall or the division of Time many will be deceived. Many are called and only  a few are chosen, My children are destroyed for their lack of knowledge and who I am is. The Christian will become the minority here soon and many of the so called Christians shall Fall away. This is all scripture not of my making but of Father's making. We are in the END Time Season this I wholeheartedly Believe. The Apostasy is all about Us and the Elect have yet to show themselves as such. I would rather be deluded as you say; than Ignorant to the Truth of GOD and who He Is and what He is doing and has done for us all. The Apostles did believe and so do I. Thomas had a little trouble at first also but soon it will be undeniable to all. As they learn from true Christians the sings and the warnings of things yet to come.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you think Christians are a small "majority" you should probably consider revisiting the first grade and learning to count.

            If your children are being destroyed for lack of knowledge, then teach them!  Teach by example, hands on experience though, not just spouting nonsense like we see here.  Do some miracles, things impossible under the laws of nature, and do them on TV with a live audience of scientists carrying recording and measuring instruments.  The best teachers use far more than their mouths.

            1. Sinbadsailorman profile image56
              Sinbadsailormanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, it is only the small minority of past and present world population known as Christians that have so sadly deluded themselves into believing a man was actually a god. GOD was actually a Man Not my Children GOD's Children Brother Miracles happen before your eyes everyday awake and see them seek and you shall find them I can not give to you what you will not seek or wish to disprove. Science proves GOD to some and confuses others but It has never disproved God to Any Yes they use their hearts to teach faith.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You didn't do a miracle, defined as an action impossible under natural laws.  I didn't learn anything from this ramble, except you like flowery words whether truthful or not. 

                You do know, don't you, that an inability to disprove something does not give any indication it is there?  Think of the FSM or the Flying Purple People Eater here...

                I don't want your heart to teach me anything, least of all a faith that is based on desire rather than fact and truth.  But if you would use your mind/body/spiritual powers to do that little miracle thingie it the lesson would be much appreciated.

                1. Sinbadsailorman profile image56
                  Sinbadsailormanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Jesus gave you many miracles and you discounted HIM as you would me or mine. Miracles happen everywhere and every hour of the day on this planet. I am not GOD or HIS messenger I am however one of HIS children which has come to Light and I have no need to change your mind or produce something you would discount because of the influence you are under.

                  You must come to that on your own time frame and with your own beliefs even the Devil can't make you believe any such nonsense that you already do.

                  That is and was of your own free will that you used. And you alone have chosen as you have and You will stand before God as will we all and make an account of why you choose as you did.

                  Source Is GOD/ The Universe doesn't exist without out HIM and there is your Proven  of GOD or a god or do you believe nothing comes from nothing and some how some exploded and made everything? you have much more faith then I if you do.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    But I didn't see Jesus' miracles.  Neither did anyone else alive, and neither did anyone that reported them.  All the reports we have are through multiple people, people with a bias towards making him a god in order to profit personally from it.  You believe them if you wish; I require more.

                    And you're not going to teach, are you?  Just spout meaningless opinionated drivel without anything to back it.  No miracles at all, in spite of a terrible need to teach your fellow man.

                    I guess I do have more faith, then.  Because I don't see a real problem with "something from nothing" as you put it - we see that happening all the time in the subatomic world, and the singularity that existed at the time was nothing at all like what the universe is today.  Certainly different laws operated in that singularity; laws that allowed or produced very different things than what we see today.

                    On the other hand, you postulate an entire different universe, populated with a single intelligent creature.  A creature that made us, loves us and wants us to be with it as it throws us into hell.  A creature that was created by nothing, just as your universe was (according to you) while simultaneously existing forever without being created.  None of which we have any reason to believe even might exist.

                    Can you detect the difference?  One modeled at least somewhat on what we see happening around us, the other on pure imagination?  Which do you think requires more faith to believe is true?

                  2. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It's always fun and interesting when someone claims miracles happen everywhere and all time, but can't produce one. Not even one.


                    Does this really bother you. If you are right and we come before God and he asks why I didn't believe he existed, the answer would be easy. "Well sir, I couldn't see or detect you in any way, I studied prayer and found no statistical evidence that prayer works so therefore I assumed you were not here as you gave us a thinking analytical brain. How is that going to work for you. You stand before God and he asks why were you Christian, didn't you see the commandment where I told you to follow one God? The first thing Christians did was divid me up in three. What will your response be?


                    That's some messed up logic. First you have to prove your God exists and then you have to prove the universe can't exist without him before you jump to the conclusion that the universe is proof of a Christian God.

  2. tirelesstraveler profile image86
    tirelesstravelerposted 3 years ago

    It is sad the little girl won't get to celebrate.  My God is very much into celebrating, as is the God of the Jews. I do think it peculiar that people who don't believe in Christ compete to spend money and make the perfect Christmas for their children.  For that matter it seem peculiar when Christ followers do it too. The first Christmas was silent, except for the sound of the animals.  The stars were bright and there were angels. 
    I think there should be a law making everyone go out and stare at the stars every night of December.  Except when its below zero. That would make the best celebration and the JW's wouldn't mind.

    1. profile image0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      lol.

 
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