I saw this thing on Youtube the other day and it said that animals have souls that are to the flesh, as opposed to us--we have souls that are to the spirit. Therefore, when animals perish, their souls perish with them. What do you guys think? Do you think animals go to Heaven or Hell? The link to this video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wivgDck1l88. It is a little long, but it's in there.
Without evidence that either any animal, including humans, has a soul that lives beyond what the body does, there is no reason to think that it either goes to heaven or anywhere else.
You mean to tell me that Cappy won't be waiting for me on the other side?
Personally Lybrah, I don't think animals are any less mportant to we humans. After all we are only animals ourselves and god created us all. If there is a Heaven, I think every creature goes there when they die. I know my dogs and cats have more compassion and show more love than any person I know, so why shouldn't they?
Only in your memories, I'm afraid.
But that's all right - an eternal life would be the worst thing imaginable to suffer through. Death is a surcease we all need.
Why do you say that? You'd rather cease to exist than live forever? I like existing.
I like existing, too.
Will I like it 10,000 years from now, when I've done everything I want to do, and done it 10 times over?
Will I like it a million years from now when I have experienced every single thing there is to experience, good and bad, and done that a thousand times over?
Eventually terminal boredom will set in, followed in a million years or so by insanity.
We all say we want to live "forever" without stopping to think just what "forever" actually means. No matter how long it takes to see everything, feel everything, do everything, it is but the tiniest baby step towards eternity. A million years, a billion, a trillion - all are but the first step along the timeline of eternity.
To most people, a couple of hundred years is an "eternity", or "forever", but even though it is out of our reach, it is not "forever".
That's interesting. I believe in Jesus and Heaven, and wonder what we'll be doing up there when we die. How will God keep us entertained?
I see two choices: either wipe your memory periodically (change you into someone else) or destroy you. Anything else results in a terrible boredom that will never diminish, not after experiencing every possible thing a hundred or a thousand times.
I think we have a differing opinion of "experiencing every possible thing a hundred or a thousand times." and I admit that I find it impossible to envisage what or how extensive 'every possible thing' may be, infinity and eternity just seem to be outside of human understanding.
But I do think animals will be with us in eternity, because Yeshua returns on a horse when He comes back to wrap up this age.
What I think will be spectacular (and worth suffering whatever was needed to gain eternity) will be the complete understanding and knowledge which will be available to those who make it to be with God in eternity.
I guess those who reject eternity with God, will be stuck with their limited understanding for eternity, which I agree would be infinitely boring as they constantly rehashed their failings like a perpetual 'Groundhog Day' without the ability to correct their errors... especially as eternity with God is a free gift of grace to all who will accept it, but a curse to those who reject it.
I'm not sure what other meaning to having every experience multiple times could be: I meant exactly what I said. What did you mean with the phrase?
If you already know everything, you just very badly shortened the time you can be entertained. With no learning possible, that joy is taken from your time after death.
1 Corinthians 2:9 - "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
I don't anticipate boredom.
I definitely believe that animals DO go to heaven. There are many people who have had near death experiences, who have seen their pets (who already passed) in heaven with their relatives.
I did also check out the video link that is in your article. The guy who's reporting this, has absolutely no proof that what he's saying is truth, so I wouldn't take his word for anything. It just seems to be his opinion.
Besides that, he reports his near-death experience which is a lot different from what the majority of people have had. I have known people who've had this type of experience, and I myself have had one. I can tell you in truth that is is NOT what really happens.
So, anyway, let me just say that if you had a pet who passed, you'll definitely see him/her when you cross over. Pets have spirits, too
And are the dinosaurs there as well? It would be cool to see them one day.
Don't forget Homo Erectus, Homo Ergaster, Homo Habilis, Homo Heidelbergensis, and Homo Florensiensis!
Those were just bones, put there by Satan to confuse us. Bones and cave drawings and fire remains and stone tools and pointed, charred sticks and, and, and.
Actually, I've wondered that too. Do the theists just dismiss those people out of hand as intelligent animals or did they have souls? A whole different species with a soul!
The argument that Lucifer created fossils to confuse humanity has always amused me, and I have to wonder if the Christians who make that argument realize how heretical it is. After all, the ultimate divine power exclusive to God himself (creation) is now being attributed to Lucifer. That would imply that Lucifer is, indeed, on the same level as God, then.
Yay theology fail!
I don't believe that Lucifer created the fossils to confuse us. Dinosaurs most definitely existed before humans. I think God had created the dinosaurs and then when he got sick of them, he wiped them out and then prepared the Earth for us.
Seriously. It makes sense. They lived on the Earth for millions of years. God got sick of them eventually...
I would not enjoy living in a universe created by that kind of selfish and cruel God.
The way humans are treating his planet and the other creatures He created, I hope God doesn't get sick of us soon and wipe us out.
A diabolical mimicry tie in? According to some in the early church, Lucifer was a very busy guy back in the day for sure.
Check out this guy, I would be interested to hear what you think about his presentation!
(Nephilim: TRUE STORY of Satan, Fallen Angels, Giants, Aliens....)
Have you ever heard of Piltdown Man? Ulysses? Odysseus? Cold Fusion? Thor, Odin or Yahweh?
The world abounds with both fraud and fiction. You would do well to take better care what you believe to be true.
Hint: when the speaker begins with the assurance that it is all a TRUE STORY, and authentic, keep you hand firmly on your wallet. You are about to be scammed.
So I guess your 'inner self' stopped you from looking at it all and making an informed decision, why watch when you can just judge something?
Now I know why I don't bother wasting my time in the forums too often.....
I watched it until a grossly misshapen skull was shown, with the insinuation it was a half breed descendant from a god/man union. At that point I could stomach no more and quit wasting my time.
It amazes me how Christians can be taken in by the idea of human/angel hybrids. Err hello since when did an angel (non material spirit being) have DNA, or a penis for that matter? Yet they also claim the Holy Spirit reveals things to them; surely this doesn't include Middle Eastern mythical tales?
Now, you are thinking about this, when you should be feeling for the Word of God. When if feels good, it is true; those that want sex with an angel will believe in hybrids while those that don't, won't. Quite simple, actually.
I'd be grateful to have sex with a woman never mind an angel.
??A disembodied stone head should have sex with a poem??
OK, well at least you are honest about it, something that you found uncomfortable to contemplate, so straight to judgement and the next subject that confirms your biased beliefs, oh how I wish it were that easy to search for truth!
DH just as an aside, I watch with interest as you slip slowly into a total world view...
Most animals become ghosts. I have a large assortment of my previous pets that have gone on to the 'other side' still hanging out in my flat and being every bit as entertaining as they were when they were alive.
My first tortoise Joseph appears now and again, for instance, when he has learned a new poem and wishes to recite it to me.
My old pet cricket who only lived a few days when I was 8 years old, comes back as a ghostly chirp on days having the letter 'e' in them.
And so on.
Ghostly pets. What could be nicer ?
Of course animals have an afterlife!
Uncomfortable to contemplate? Uncomfortable? Uncomfortable has zero to do with it; what was being presented as truth was so far removed from reality as to be a complete waste of time.
Sure, there were enough tips and clues as to the validity of that farce that only a few minutes was needed to serve up judgement not hours of meaningless drivel. The real "belief" about that scene concerned the veracity and honesty of the speaker, not what he had to say. And that, sadly, was that the man was NOT there to offer truth and fact.
Mmmm so because I am not taken in by myths about fallen angels and hybrids, because I choose to use my God given brain, because I base my life upon evidence rather than hearsay, I'm taking on a World view? Well I've always had 'this World view'. However I believe the biblical use of the term 'World view' is somewhat different, more about human greed, inhumanity, worshipping idols, superstition, judging others and the like.
Yes, that horrible (but real) world view. Better that you should live in your imagination than in the real world. You will find solace and happiness there, at least if you can shut down your God given brain. At least I think so - I've never managed to do that to a sufficient degree to believe what I found there.
I believe that if a Muslim leaves the faith, it's open season on his head. If a Christian leaves the faith, whilst they are not at personal risk, they do have to put up with a lot of judgement, sideways insults, and the like. However, though I'm not too bothered at leaving the man made Christianism, I'm not about to embrace atheism either. I still hold a belief in god's existence which is supported by a philosophical set of arguments, but I don't think Christians have the faintest idea about who God is, anymore than a Jew, Muslim, or person of no faith.
I'm sorry, but I do not see philosophical set of arguments supporting anything outside of a philosophical stand. Certainly not something existing in the real world outside the mind.
Nor would I agree that no one (except you?) has the faintest idea about who God is; as God is a defined concept (as opposed to real and actual), defined by each individual person, most people have a pretty good idea what it is.
Philosophical arguments for the existence of God are for another forum day.
Now if your position is God does not exist except in the minds of his followers, then by logical argument God is an invention of the individual's mind, and by extension that individual would now God better than anyone else. If your position is God does exist, then an individual can only know as much as that God has revealed himself.
Here's the rub, Christians blindly say the bible in its entirety is the written word of God because every Christian is instructed to believe so without supporting evidence, and they are actively discouraged from questioning this standpoint. The reason why I say Christians don't have a clue is because we know from archeological history that much of what is presented in the bible is not factually true, the canonisation of the NT is questionable and motivated by politics, most English translations are dodgy, and we don't have original sources. So when a Christian says that human angel hybrids happened because God showed this to them as they read the word, I think I'm safe in saying he didn't, and can call into question the other occasions when God 'revealed some other truth' to them, such as young Earth creationism, or four living creatures are real beings.
If I really knew God in some testable, irrefutable way, would I be here?
All true, but for one tiny thing you forgot.
Christians are highly discouraged from question their bible, but must still "interpret" the book. Such interpretation is extremely subjective, and will give rise to a different meaning (and god) for every person. No two believe the same and therefore no two gods are the same.
God is thus indeed a construct of the human mind, as are all the other creatures and even history read into the bible. You recognize you cannot know God in some testable, irrefutable, I realize it, but a great many Christians do not. A great many have decided that their imagination is truly irrefutable; that "information" gleaned from within that imagination cannot be successfully challenged by anyone.
We can hear you.
If you're going to speak for someone, you should speak knowledgeably.
Yes interpretation is highly problematic for Christendom. Take the Jewish community, they know their Hebrew and can see for themselves what is written in the best available texts. They have a culture of arguing about what the texts mean, and they come to a concensus about it. It is perhaps why they are not split into tens of thousands of denominations. Unfortunately the Church had a 1700 year history of hiding the texts from the people; Latin and Greek was the preserve of the priests and translations into English was forbidden. To believe 'the wrong thing' didn't lead to a healthy discussion over a glass of Jewish wine, it led to be branded a heretic, the rack, being boiled in oil, or burnt at the stake. So the culture of Christendom is not to question, not to enquirer of the Hebrew or Greek texts, but to accept what the priest instructed one to believe. This blind belief once motivated by fear or ignorance, is now motivated by belief that pastor has special anointing or a special relationship with Jesus. As God is no respect or of persons in happy clappy land, any hunch/idea/feeling is now the 'Holy Spirit' revealed it to me, and thus is sacrosanct irrespective of the views of another.
It's all about the Bible.
It's all about the Bible.
It's all about the Bible.
For Christianity, that's ok. What isn't ok is assumption of absolute literal interpretational truth, and then a search for 'evidence' that appears to support that 'truth'.
For example is it credible study when those at 'Answers in Genesis' insist on a literal 6000 year old Earth, where the Flintstones is considered Reality TV, and they exist only to search for 'evidence' to support this whilst wilfully ignoring the scientific community?
Is it credible study to insist Lucifer was a beautiful archangel in charge of music, God's second in command, who through pride rebelled, had a fight, and got cast to Earth with a third of the angels, to wreak havoc on Earth and lead 95% of humanity to hell whilst causing washing machines to break down in his spare time? This story isn't in the bible, and a Jewish scholar who knows his Hebrew would find this whole idea complete nonsense.
Is it credible to insist that the unconditional everlasting love of God has conditions attached and comes with an expiry date?
These are things Christian's believe because they are told they are in the bible.
It's ok not to agree with Paul the Apostle. It's ok not to believe in creationism. it's ok to believe that the Exodus probably didn't happen, that King David wasn't a great king, or that not all that is in the bible is true or the verbatim word of God.
This forum has got so off topic 'What happens to animals when they die" and I've noticed that the person who started it hasn't even had a say for ages. Anyway here's my input for what it's worth to where the discussion's headed:
'The Fool Hath Said'
"There is no God", the speaker cries,
"Don't let your thoughts be chained:
This universe evolved itself,
The world is self-contained."
Just then an urchin in the crowd
A skillful pebble throws
Which accurately lands upon
The atheistic nose.
"Who threw that stone?' the speaker roars;
At which the cockney elf,
Intuitively keen, retorts,
"No one! It frew irself."
So a pathetic casualty,
Discomforted and worse,
Goes home to meditate upon
This causeless Universe.
So your way to get things back on topic was to post a poem about the person who got things off topic?
That poem is pretty good. And yeah, you'll notice I left this conversation a long, long time ago!
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