Through evolution theory the deceiver is attempting to silence the testimony of creation about the Creator, to destroy belief in the Word and to ultimately destroy faith in the true God, replacing him with nonsensical happenings that have no meaning, no need for good rather than evil, and no incentive to seek the truth and the One who is truth. God has placed within people everywhere rudimentary knowledge of himself and of his goodness, so that across nations people have established right from wrong, and they have sought and worshiped that which is beyond themselves. God has likewise given us all of creation as a powerful witness of his very existence and of his nature. As it is written: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard" (19:1-4, Psalm), and "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" (1:20, Romans). But now in these last days, the deceiver has been successfully silencing the testimony of creation for more and more people. Christians too often underestimate the evil and intended harm bound in the godless evolution theories, and too often compromise if not their own faith, than that of their children and youth. Children are taught in today's public schools and by popular media that evolution theory is fact, and having been taught lies from the beginning by seemingly knowledgeable authorities, most will believe what they have been taught, as people tend to believe the popular lies of any day. Those who attend secular college will be taught more of the deceiver's false wisdom and they will be subject to even greater mind control by evolution pushers who demand unquestioning adherence to their theories. Anyone who dares to profess faith in the Creator or who challenges the theory of evolution will be ridiculed and manipulatively labeled as gullible, simple or even stupid. The popularity of evolution theory should not come as a surprise to the believer in the Word, as it was foretold to us, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (4:3-4, 2 Timothy). Evolution theory is exactly what many "itching ears want to hear" - with no God and no God-given truth, people are free to arrogantly create their own truth, to do whatever they please, and to worship no one but themselves! Loyal followers of evolution will defend and fight for the theory with as much zeal as anyone fighting for their demon god, so that there are few ways to make enemies faster in this day than to speak against the beloved "god of evolution".
If you look at a Wood Frog on utube, your'l see that here is a creature that freezes to death every winter, and when it thaws out it comes back to life...So the Wood Frog is a clue, making me think that we're all just Solar powered machines, transport for our spirit/soul/consciousness....The difference between me and the Wood Frog, is that i have free will....I don't think there's many Wood Frogs out there, that ask these sorts of questions!lol....Also look at the Bacterial Flagelum Motor also on utube, a self assembling Nano machine, the most efficient motor in the universe, so in my eyes another obvious clue that we've been designed......The "ego" is "looking" for proof of evolution, and that's why their looking so hard....The "collective ego" just has to know, whereas i know it will be explained to me as i go through life....So i'm still on the fence as far as what i believe, but i am leaning more and more towards a creator....There's clues everywhere, but unless a none believer was to look at the possibility of god, then they won't ever see the clues.....I asked for proof whilst meditating, and got a series of "coincidences", but i still can't quite believe, because my mind is in the way. :-)
Well mine is a bit smaller; has more pages; bit more ink. But I guess your bible must be best suited for you...and probably a bit easier to not read. Maybe you should purchase a few just in case you lose it. Wouldn't want your commands forgotten, now would you. Lol
Hey Paul how do you know the Bible isn't real, if you wasn't there when they didn't write it?lol
You have a likable personality, Dave36. Sorry I haven't responded much to your posts. Anyway, I just want to say a prayer for you, if you don't mind: Father God, I pray, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that you will REVEAL yourself to this one who is seeking, so that he will SEE you and will be at home with us for all eternity. In Jesus' powerful name I ask it. Amen.
Check out the brain on Brad, you're a smart mother f****r (my favorite line in Pulp Fiction). Sorry didn't pertain to you. So with that in mind, the War of 1812 and the French Revolution never happened either since I wasn't there? Doesn't make much sense now does it? Any more brilliant comments?
No mate they didn't happen, not how they say anyway!...Information passed through generations, & over time....Is only taught how ever the "ruling classes", Royalty, Religions, Politicians etc want it to be taught....ALL other information is destroyed, and this is well documented throughout history.....So do i really believe the Bible is real?, no of course i don't, but do i believe it's fake?, no of course i don't, I can't "prove" it either way!.....What i do know is that, most things that we've been taught about history is a complete lie, OR is it?lol......So do i believe in God?, well i can't say that i believe, but i can say that i feel something.....Only since iv'e been looking inside me, (& by the way), i do know how mad that sounds!lol
I took your comment the wrong way. Sorry about that. Yes of course, in grade school history class we only get the very basics of a particular event. For example, we are tought that Hitler started WW2, but if one want's dig into it, there was a laundry list of circumstances that lead up to that - like the Versailles Treaty for starters. It's always the victors that tells history (except the case of Custer's Last Stand where the Indian's side of the story wasn't taken seriously until recent physical evidence proved them right) and it usually holds up unless some conflicting evidence comes along.
Hey thanks CJ Simonelli, i don't mind at all.
Why i'm on here is because, i started meditating etc about 8 months ago.
Trying to gain control of my negative mind, & feelings/emotions etc.
So i mastered that stuff, well i say mastered i don't think i'll ever master it.
But got in 99% of the time in control of it at least, so i started to feel a lot more relaxed about life.
Anyway iv'e been an Oil Refinery contractor for 20 years, a proper "roughy toughy" etc!lol
So i know i'm confusing ALL my friends & family etc, because i tell them iv'e actually seen clues/signs etc, which make me believe i'm now being drawn to something.
I now believe there's actually "something", that wants me to go in a certain direction in life, but it wants me to find it.
Like i say i don't do what my mind says any more, rather i listen to my heart.
Most of my mates etc laugh when i say that, but i know it's the truth.
I'm still confused about it all, & i think that's the point of it all. :-)
Sorry, science has debunked the IDers Bacterial Flagelum Motor argument almost directly after IDers brought it up buy showing a list of other bacteria that function with less parts as the flagellum.
There's 100's of clues mate, that you scientific "smart guys" are missing.
What's more is your'l never see them, because your looking in the wrong direction.
Your always busy looking out there, and measuring the Universe!lol
When i bet you any money that none of you scientific "smart guys", have "ever" looked inside yourself for the answers.
There's plenty of things in your home, that you know nothing about.
You won't know how their made, who designed them, what their made from, etc etc.
But you use them all, just like we use our bodies etc.
So finding our what i'm made from etc, means absolutely nothing to me, as we had to be made from something didn't we?,
Like i say do some meditating, and just ask if there's a god.
Actually ask him or her to "prove" it to you, but when you ask you DON'T use your mind to ask....It's a bit tricky, & takes a lot of practice....Now your only gonna get a sign/clue, but when you see a few of them, your'l start to feel differently about the whole thing.
I still don't believe in god, as my mind is "still" waiting for more proof, & that's the battle.
NOT to control your mind, & brainwash yourself into believing.
BUT, to just simply let your mind accept the possibility, that there might be a creator of some kind.
Once your open you will feel something, i did anyway buddy otherwise i wouldn't mention it.
But your scientific, so there's an experiment for you to try.
"BUT"! get this, "IF" you don't try it, you ARE brainwashed!lol
Sure, the subconscious mind would love the idea or concept of a God. Just because the mind would grab hold of that concept doesn't mean it's factual.
I once believed in God. I reasoned he's not there.
I think the mind is the problem Dr Lamb, & i think it's a shame that you've let your mind reason a creator might not exist...Iv'e not been led astray by my mind, & iv'e looked into a lot more than the average person has...So from what's happened to me throughout my life, & the unexplainable things iv'e seen in the last 7/8 months i have to conclude the following: Something is giving me "actual" signs, to make me believe in something, or to make me "realise" something, would be a better way of putting it...Now i'm not saying that some of them "couldn't" have happened mathematically, but i got a "series" of them that definitely couldn't have "accidentally/mathematically" happened...It was & still is unbelievable to "me", & yet they did happen....I can't get even close to an answer, but it was something to do with my "intentions" which we're massive at the time, in a certain state of mind, that actually caused 2 particular "coincidences", or as i like to call then, "signs".to happen....It's funny because both of the recent one's we're witnessed by friends, however neither parties could grasp what had happened, as it was "too" weird "to them", & in their eyes "had" to be a coincidence....Also iv'e seen a couple of visual effects that i can't explain, & found no info on on the internet.....It's like i 1st saw something after months of meditating etc, something totally different to anything i'd seen before, only for a few seconds, but i know i saw it....Then over a month or so i started telling myself, "maybe" i didn't see it....Then i saw another "unexplainable" thing, but like i say a month would go by, & i'd "try" to write it off....Then blatant unexplainable "more than random" coincidences started to happen, not many but then 2 in a week....Iv'e also had 2 totally "no mind" experiences whilst meditating, but both times was "not" asleep just very deeply meditating....During those moments my body/mind/universe disappeared, & all that was left was the "i", total nothingness & the "i" or the awareness that i am "that" i that was just looking into nothingness....The thing is though is i know full well how "mental" that all sounds, but i'm just trying to make sense of it my self....So i'm not gonna come on here a make this up, as what would i possibly gain from doing that....I'm 41 yrs old & worked in nearly 40 countries on oil refineries, i work out every day, boxing, martial arts etc....I'm happy etc, but these things did happen...If i had to guess i'd say we are just minds, but not minds trapped in "bodies", but minds that create our bodies/world/universe etc...Maybe we all just project the world between us, but think about this mathematically: IF mathematically Dave36 (me) could be alive now in an infinite universe, then surely i'm alive "all the time"!...So what do you say Dr Lamb, should i be sectioned?lol....I'm only joking, i would love your opinion though...Bearing in mind i am "still" considered sane by all that know me, even after telling them about all this....They just say i have very interesting views, whereas i know their minds can't actually comprehend what i tell them, as their mostly fast asleep....The thing is though is i'm not being brainwashed into believing what i saw, if anything my mind "can't" accept what it saw.... :-)
I think I know where you are coming from? Hard as you try you can't describe the experience adequately "with words". Ill briefly mention one instance which happened to me. While in a "fog" To be given answers to questions you have never even considered the question? Being fascinated with what I had learned, that that I picked up a pencil to write some of it down, ... but the thought melts like as quickly as snow flake. But somehow I felt like my subconscious mind retained it. The strangest thing is that it happened while driving home from work, a fifteen minute drive while three hours actually passed. I've never told of this incident before mostly because no one would believe it anyway.
These kind of things used to happen all the time. I think this is where I get most of my weird ideas from.
I think what you've described has been described by monks and others that practice meditation. It's amazing what the mind can do. Please study the effects of meditation and understand that the mind can can play tricks on you. It can make you feel like you are floating when you are not.
God knows the power of meditation. He told us how to do it properly. "Our father, who art in heaven...THY will be done..." He knows how powerfully tricky the mind can get, "lean not unto your own understanding."
His way is correct. All other paths lead to destruction. Even the ones who think they serve God; but try to use his cover for their own ideas. Yes he loves us and wants no one to perish. That is why he gave us instruction on what right REALLY is. Those who have their FREE EAR will hear...
Nice. you are having an experience I once had. The opening of the heart is what it takes. I'm glad you know. It is the brain that trips us up. The bible lets us know that we cannot rely on our own thoughts. They are the thing that keeps us from understanding what he meant.
For instance, he was not telling his followers to deny the admonition to do no work on the Sabbath by allowing his followers to pluck and eat; nor by fixing the withered hand. He said that it was good to do good on the Sabbath. "Who among you would leave your sheep in a ditch...???"
There was a method. He utilized the mind of God. It leads somewhere for sure. No circles. We must use the mind of God. We know it by the example of Jesus. If you believe as I...
Since the heart only pumps blood and the brain is where all activity is centered, whether it is thoughts or beliefs, the Bible is obviously wrong on that one. There is no other way than the use of the brain.
For 'Heart' I guess you mean an emotional response which is centred in the brain. Now by all means base your life upon emotional responses, and indeed we all make decisions occasionally based upon emotion rather than rational thinking. But to suggest that one should make an all consuming decision whether or not to convert to Christianity based upon an emotional response is nonsensical. Even more nonsensical is the idea that people go to hell for failing to exhibit the 'required' emotional responses. Do you get what I'm saying?
Yes! By all means, I do. This life is not for those who desire their own rationale. Followers use the mind of Christ. They have an assurance that he is right. No one, surely me, is suggesting that you let go of your rational senses. Not everyone can. It is a stronghold that conquers the ability to hear what thus says the Lord. The reason for that is reasonable. I mean, who can imagine a person being formed from dirt with blood, vessels to carry it, organs to sustain it and breath to give it life but God??? his world is SO large that human capabilities fail miserably in the comprehension arena. We just aint smart enough. Ask Eve.
The one thing that sets us apart from other animals, that gives us superiority over all (except maybe cockroaches ) is the huge brain that God gives us, and you're telling us to ignore what it says - that we cannot rely on what God's work tells us?
It's a different take on the matter for sure.
Exactly Wilderness! I think you're getting it!!!
God knows how his work works. He knows its ability/inability much better than we can ever imagine. He knows what to say and do to get his points across. He knows that those with an ear that they put on themselves, will hear. Those who have closed their "ear" will not.
Thanks! You ARE brilliant.
People are being socially conditioned, in a sense, to not ever look for any other possibilities. This would include a possible uncaused cause, or intelligence that could get the job done. The level of ridicule heard about in classrooms across the globe is a huge tactic in teaching people to be silent and not really further critical thinking about the subjects.
Some people are really not too strong in the face of put downs, especially from professors they are sitting under to learn from. They sometimes quickly ditch their beliefs and fall for the tactics without considering that their grandparents that never made it past elementary school might really have been on to something. These things don't hinge on the level of education held by those that hold the views, they hinge on actual truths of the universe and the world and humanity and how they work.
Education teaches critical thinking. Looking at all things critically, even religion. Religion doesn't allow for critical thought. It simply tell you what to think. This is why we have people claiming the heart muscle is where love comes from.
Ever had an artichoke heart? Hey! But artichokes don't love. Hmmmmm... can you now figure what the spiritual heart is??? Oh! Artichokes don't have muscles either! (That's a hint)
Where does love come from???
PLEASE give me the answer I seek...I already have a response picked out...
Mmmm I guess CSLewis got it wrong then and Im pretty sure Dr Lamb academically you would be a midget compared to him...oh and that other guy Frances Collins and Dr William Lane Craig the atheists tormenter etc etc the list of all those poor academics who believed on this invisible man in the sky you call God is to long to post it on here
CJ, it seems that you are fighting for church dogma, rather than God's truth.
Certainly there are some scientists who despise the idea of God. Certainly the idea of evolution has been perverted to be anti-God. But science is not anti-God and neither is evolution.
God created evolution. If you think the Bible says differently, then I might add that you're reading it entirely too literally. The Bible was meant to be read spiritually. (2 Cor. 3:6) Jesus emphasized this with his difficult parables and his statement that salvation is a narrow path -- not an easy (literal) location.
By reading with the spirit, the Bible reveals a timeline which is entirely compatible with those of mainstream science.
Jesus pleaded with us to be humble (last), rather than arrogant (first). There is so much more to learn in the Bible, but first you have to be humble and hungry. If you think you know it all, you can never learn anything.
I just want to offer a word of encouragement to Cgenaea from one sister-in-Christ to another: I know you are a prophetess, that you have the Spirit within you, and that you rightly divide the word of truth. While I can't recall every post and I understand if your humanity enters in here or there, yet remarkably in all your many words I did not see falsehood come out of your mouth. It seems some are offended at the words of God and project their anger onto the messenger.
Despite many attacks against you, you've stood courageously for Christ. You have not offered a watered-down version of Christianity as many today do, but have stood on the everlasting truth of the eternal God. While others have accused you of pride, I see humility - a woman who readily admits faults, a past, humbling experiences, sicknesses... And all this for the love of others.
Let these verses from John 15:18-21 encourage you: "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me."
He who is forgiven much; loves much also.
To whom much is given, much is required. (I gotta lotta faith )
Watering down the words is not faithful. I want to be pleasing to God; not man if he has other plans.
I fully appreciate your love for/to me.
He that is in us is greater.
Truly true truth.
I as a follower of truth see some parts of the theory of evolution to be in step with the way God created the world. The world lives breathes and grows to accomodate its inhabitants in a way, evolving. People have definitely had to evolve. Not from apes. But that's another story.
Yes, it is as you say. Some make the distinction between microevolution (those changes you mention, which do in fact occur) and macroevolution, which includes the whole ape-like creature to human concept. If evolution theory had stuck with the facts it would be ok, but it went on to make some outlandish inferences and speculations intended to destroy faith in God.
And some believers made outlandish and fraudulent inferences about science. Not enough humility on both sides.
Micro-evolution x 1,000,000,000 = Macro-evolution.
But I suspect that God created in life the ability to make rapid changes when needed -- biological punctuated equilibrium.
I find God's creation of evolution to be quite clever and wonderful.
Some believers put on blinders (ego) and equate spiritual death in the Garden with physical death outside of the Garden. They're not the same thing -- just as apples and oranges are not the same thing.
The universe is billions of years old. The collisions of galaxies proves this. I sincerely doubt that God would create the aftermath of collisions which never occurred.
More than being right or wrong about this interesting topic, we need to find greater humility and hunger to learn what God has to teach us. The Bible is full of Hidden Wisdom as yet untapped.
I've discovered only a tiny drop of that wisdom, detailed in my new book, "The Bible's Hidden Wisdom, God's Reason for Noah's Flood," Rod Martin, Jr. (about to be published).
God created the reality that science studies. Don't ignore reality (science); that only leads to delusion. Be humble. There's more to learn.
IMHO distinguishing macro and micro seems selective. So the proto-shrew can become the horse, but the chimp cannot become the 93% genetically identical human.
Either species evolve, or fossils are Gods greatest joke since inventing the male testicle, imho.
They won't tell you in the mainstream systems run by the "prince of this world" (that is, Satan), but the literature is FULL of scientists saying the fossil record has not supported evolution theory in the way they'd hoped. There are too many gaps and distinct kinds, not enough that can be construed as transitional. Scientists are only making their best efforts, trying to put things together, line them up, theorize about them...
Looking at it from your point of view, I have some questions:
1) How do I know you are not a messenger of satan, trying to deceive us into believing evolution is false?
2) Many Christians understand and accept the theory of evolution. Either you are wrong, or they are. Why should I believe you are the real Christian?
3) How do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner and others? Is god not free to deliver his message via any means he chooses, even through an atheist? Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?
You'll know that the message is from God if the one delivering it confesses Jesus to be the son of God. I can do that, and I am sure CJ can too, but I don't think you'd get that from some of the other people on this forum. You are correct that Satan deceives others by appearing as an angel of light...which is why you have fake Christians, hypocrites, and you have to be careful. Again, she who is not with us is against us. Period.
Actually, as a Christian, I am with Christ. You have nothing to do with it. Again, going along with your ideas doesn't make one Christian... unless you've been walking across lakes lately.
She who is NOT with us IS against us. It's one thing if you don't believe, like most of the people on this forum. That, I can handle. But it's when a hypocrite appears, talking nonsense about how she is with Christ, yet, does not produce the fruit, if you will, that frustrates me. You can tell a tree by it's fruit, and your tree is dead in the winter.
So, let me get this straight... Because I disagree with the way that YOU make an argument, I am against Christ?
ROFLMAO! Whatever you say dear.
So any disagreement with any Christian sends one to hell. You are currently arguing with a Christian.
Pack your bags, bring sunblock.
I am? CJ, where are you? What other Christian am I arguing with?
There's no other Christian here, other than myself, at the moment.
I got one judge, and it ain't you. I'm sure he likes you attempting to do his job, though. Let me know how that works out when you discuss it with him.
Again, your arguments are silly, nonsensical, and not going to impress anyone with an IQ over 90. All the personal attacks and diversions aren't going to change the basic lack of anything close to effective logic.
Yes, I wonder what God would say...oh, wait, the bible says "HYPOCRITES will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven." Yes, I will discuss it with Him, since I believe in Him, but I can't say the same about you. Not everyone who thinks they are saved are actually saved. I wonder what God would make of your sexual orientation? Oh, wait, I know: Homosexuals will Not inherit the kingdom of heaven." Do any of these quotes mean anything to you?
Ah, thanks for bringing up my sexual orientation. I think God would say I'm happily married. Thanks for asking.
But the point is God would say it, not you. By your stance, anyone who insults your shoes isn't a Christian.
So I'll go ahead and continue to laugh at your silly debate tactics with no fear of eternal damnation. I'm pretty safe from hellfire.
You go ahead and continue to make personal attacks that amuse me in an effort to disquise the fact that you don't know anything about evolution.
Then Heaven is not a place that any decent human being should want to go. It would, however, be ideal for bigoted, egotistical, narrow minded, hateful people.
MelissaBarrett: If you are a Christian (I will not make that judgment), then WHY on earth are you so often speaking against other Christians, aligning yourself with those outside rather than inside the family, making points against God and for atheists, etc. Now I have seen places where you speak some truth, and you may be a Christian, but perhaps a spiritually immature one. My greatest concerns are that 1) you attack the believers and refuse to follow Christ's command to keep the unity of the Spirit (and the last time I brought this up you seemed to have no concept of the Spirit); 2) You seem to have no love of the Word of God, even though it is inspired by the Spirit himself and even though Jesus is the Word in the flesh; 3) I've seen more zeal for evolution theory than for God from you; 4) you seem to have no interest in the eternal salvation of others, but take the attitude of, "If you want to be a Christian, great, and if you want to go to hell, great." This is more the attitude of an unbeliever who doesn't really believe hell exists, so doesn't get the serious, urgent nature of the matter. Those who flatter unbelievers (say by telling them their idol worship or lack of belief is fine) are not really acting in love because of the eternal consequences of such. If you HONESTLY believe the person is heading down a path of destruction, why are you not more zealously trying to turn them from destruction? You even told me I was committing "spiritual rape" by praying for someone against their will. In reality it's more like shoving someone out of the way of an approaching truck. They might not appreciate the shove UNTIL they see the truck, and once they do see it they aren't going to sue you for assault, they're going to THANK you for playing a part in saving them!
I must admit I'm often annoyed, but at least as often I feel an overwhelming sense of sadness regarding you.
You might reconsider calling someone else spiritually immature. Especially since your posts imply that the shoe may fit others a little more snugly.
Melissa speaks her mind. I don't always agree.Which doesn't make me right, or wrong. I am saddened by the manner Christians appear to attack one another, but these threads you have been inclined to throw out kind of force the issue. And the personal attacks on other professed Christians, simply because they are embarrassed by these uninformed views showcases the 'spiritually immaturity' of those on the attack.
If you are afraid of knowledge, if your faith is too weak to allow reality to exist, be comfortable in it...but allow others of faith to exist within their comfort zone. There is nothing written that says believers must agree on every issue under the sun, that I've ever heard.
Emile R: My first interaction with this person was on someone else's post, where she came against me for praying for someone, She has been following me around, coming against me at every point. She has on other posts even acknowledged judging me and has said she is "better" than me. I see she is also coming against other Christians and making points for atheists. So I have asked her which "team" she is on. Considering her numerous attacks on me from the start (even on forums unrelated to evolution theory), I ask you - Who is attacking who? I have been on the "attack" against the imaginations within evolution theory; for that I have been attacked by many on these forums.
You say my posts imply spiritual immaturity. How so? Because I am challenging Christians (and unbelievers) regarding the world's beloved evolution theory? The theory in its totality (not the truthful aspects within) contradicts the Word of God - he created us and he created us IN HIS IMAGE! You can keep the truthful points from within the theory, but the lies against God within the theory need to be cast down. The views are much more informed than you realize. If we deny the Word of God, we are denying Jesus because (as it is written) he is the Word in the flesh!
You say you are "saddened by the manner Christians appear to attack one another", yet you have no problem attacking me by implying spiritual immaturity. The closest you can come to an "attack" by me toward a Christian on here is my comment related to the idea that if the person in question is a Christian, then perhaps she is a spiritually immature Christian. This is no more of an attack then what you have just done. Perhaps you felt you were "sticking up for the underdog" in defending her (I sympathize with this because that is my tendency), but I have been the "underdog" in most of these forums, yet you have never come to my defense (as Lybrah did).
So it seems I have offended you somehow, Emile R. That was never my intent. But if you are offended simply by the truth, that is between you and God.
You are right that believers need not agree on everything because everything has not been revealed to us yet. But throughout God's Word, it has been revealed to us that he is the awesome Creator, that his creation testifies about this, that we are created miraculously and brilliantly in his image. Through evolution theory, many are being blinded. You can defend your beloved theory if you choose. I'll continue to declare the truth of my glorious Creator!
What I saw was people quoting what they believed to be scripture in an attempt to remind someone else that their sexual orientation would bar them from entry into a realm you all want to enter. That, in and of itself, is shameful behavior.
That was not my post. This is my understanding of the matter: Apart from God EVERYONE (straight or gay or whatever) is in the same boat, all guilty of something and all heading for destruction. Through Jesus' saving work on the cross (that is him taking our punishment onto himself), ALL(straight or gay or whatever) who accept him are lifted from the boat headed for destruction and placed into one headed for eternal life. We are DECLARED perfect and righteous through Jesus. Yes, God has warned against homosexual behavior just as he has warned against any number of behaviors we humans commit because of our sinful nature. And yes, we are called to overcome our earthly nature through the power of the Spirit (and I believe far more is possible than we realize) but most of us fail to overcome our personal struggles much of the time. Praise God for his grace! We all, me and my gay brothers and sisters, rely on God's grace first to save us and then to transform us in his own way and time. And if we never quite reach that perfected point here on earth (which really we can't as long as we have our sinful human bodies) thank the Lord our new spiritual sinless bodies await us when God creates the new heavens and new earth. We won't be gay or straight or anything else once everything has been created new; so really just as in Christ male and female is gone, so also gay and straight is gone.
No. Their thought behind their sexual orientation is what was highlighted as a danger.
There is written material, however, that a Christian must agree with all that is God, because it is truth. There are some things that all Christians must not agree with. I am not fabricating. God drew very distinct lines. Yea o Nay... simple.
Those on this side think how I said. Those on that, think whatever their hearts desire. The sky is limited.
I have no hopes whatsoever that this is a real attempt to understand my viewpoints. I'm fairly certain, in fact, that this is an attempt to find something else that you can consider wrong about them. That being said, you did ask, so I'll honestly answer your questions.
Concerning the going against the family aspect of Christianity. I'm not sure how your family works, but my family is honest and perfectly willing to point out when someone is being untruthful, illogical, prejudiced, uninformed, or just plain wrong. There is no family unity that insures that when one person says something stupid, he will be sheltered and protected in his stupidity.
For example, I recently did something blindingly stupid. Since I live in a small town and the result of my stupidity was observable to everyone in the town and, in fact, everybody driving past the town on the interstate, I received quite a bit of feedback on my stupidity. Those who were strangers (at least to the limited extent that anyone in a town this small can be strangers) made remarks like “It could have happened to anybody.”or “That was a bit of bad luck.” As the person got nearer to me in relationship, the comments moved to “Probably could have thought that through a bit more.” As my friends reacted the comments were more along the lines of “What the hell were you thinking?” and “Do you realize how dangerous that was?” My mother called me a dumb***directly. The truly telling sign, however, was that the man who loves me more than any human being on this planet could love another human being went into a multi-hour tirade that thoroughly explored the depths and breath of my stupidity, the possible causes, and the likely end results.
Now, who treated me more like family? Who loved me more?
Now, about Christ's commands to unity among followers. I think you might be taking some liberty. Firstly, as I am one of Christ's followers, I have to ask why you aren't unifying to me? I'm sure you'll come up with some reason that your views are right and therefore I must truly be the one in error, however, that requires JUDGEMENT. In short, you have to judge that you are truly on the right side and I am not. The only way for you to get around that and your OWN directive for unity, is to deny I am a Christian at all.
But I digress. Where I think you are taking some liberties, is that Jesus said we needed to be unified. He didn't say we needed to be a cult. Observance to group mentality without any deviation whatsoever is cult behavior. It really does boil down to if I think your shoes are ugly, and I say so, am I expressing a lack of unity with my Christian brothers and sisters?
We are united as far as we follow Christ. That doesn't mean we have to agree with the debate tactics, conclusions, and actions of every other follower in the world. I promise you if you are being truly attacked or persecuted, I am right there with you. If a mob of angry atheists are chasing you with pitchforks, jump behind me, I'll protect you. Without thinking, every time.
If you are stating scientifically incorrect statements on a forum using bad debate tactics and pseudo-science that has already been discussed and dismissed in every arena involved, you're on your own.
Now about my love of the word of God and of the spirit. I know what the “spirit” is that you speak of. It's really not all that complicated. That little voice inside that guides you and directs you. The voice that reminds you of what the Bible says and what you should be doing. The voice that gives you deeper meaning when you are reading verses, that tells you how they apply to your life. The voice that you hear when you have a problem, and then there is suddenly an answer.
Yeah, I get it. I just don't use it as an excuse every time someone questions me on my actions. I don't roll around in the mysticism of it. I don't use it to prove I'm right and someone else is wrong. My relationship with the “spirit” is a private one. I feel no need to air it out in a public forum to prove my faith. It's not some membership card to show to prove I belong.
I also feel no particular need to use phrasing that insinuates that Christianity is some huge mystical event. It's not. To me, it's the simplest, easiest, non-mystical thing on the face of the planet. It's not a mystery. It's not some secret unfathomable to the world and no ancient wise-men are required for understanding. The theatrics are unnecessary and really do serve to drive those of us who have less propensity for drama away.
Now, whether I “seem” to have any love for the word of Christ, in this circumstance, would be more about you not being able to recognize something if all the bells and whistles aren't ringing than any real lack of commitment on my part. I assume if I started talking in tongues or screaming from the rooftops about how holy I am, that might help you recognize it. But since I don't need you, or anyone else but Jesus, to recognize it, I think I'll be OK.
Now, for my views on evolution. I said, more than once actually, that evolution is sound science. It is sound science. I can acknowledge that without it affecting my faith for a few reasons.
1. Science is not my faith. It's not anyone's faith. Arguing that the process was created by Satan because the process gives an answer that you, as a Christian, don't believe in is like getting mad that 3 times 222 is 666. The process, in this case, was followed. It produced a valid scientific result. Cope.
2. The question of how we got here is clear on the bottom of my list of spiritual questions.
3. The question of how we got here is clear on the bottom of my list of scientific questions.
4. It is, again, sound science. Lying about that kinda goes against my faith.
5. I don't know about you, but someone saying that something is other than I think it is doesn't really bother me. Even if all the experts agree. I move on. I don't try to get them to change their mind to prove I'm right.
But, that was never the question anyway. The question was whether the arguments you were listing were scientifically valid. They aren't. Period. I'm not going to stand behind an untrue argument just because it is better for the faith. To do so would completely trash the reputation of Christianity. If we have to make up things to trick other people into following Christ, then I don't think we're really getting the point of faith.
Now, why am I not a pushy used-car salesman for Christ? Well, first thing is because I find it to be repugnant to browbeat people to follow Christ. Once again, if we have to do that, we're missing the point. Secondly, because it's not effective. Seriously. The natural instinct of human beings to being nagged, conjolled, threatened and generally lectured to is to drive them away from the speaker and by connection, whatever the speaker is “selling”.
The evangelical religions have boasted numbers SLIGHTLY to their own benefit at a significant loss of reputation to the faith as a whole. If I see someone about to walk in front of a truck, I will warn them. I will not harass them to the point that they willingly jump to get away from me.
Now, just to address the strength of my personal faith (which is really none of your business) and my immaturity (which you have absolutely no clue about). This is not for any attempt to show myself better, not for any need to prove anything, but because I truly, sincerely wish that everyone would worry about their own level of faith instead of mine.
You decided to follow Christ because of night terrors, a sprained ankle and some headaches. Cool, that's your reason. I decided to follow Christ because my three year old son died horribly and the only way I will ever have a chance to see him again is in the afterlife. I also knew that if there was anyone, any human being, in the entire world that ever made it into heaven, it is him.
Following yet? Still doubting my commitment? Have kids of your own?
OK. Follow with me some more, He died 11 days after my ex-husband moved out while I was at a college class. He took every single thing I owned, emptied out the checking account and left me with no idea where my children were. My last words to my son were “Mama loves you, she'll be back” The next time I saw my son was surrounded by nurses and doctors who were uselessly doing CPR on him after over an hour of his heart not beating on it's own. My next words in his presence were “Let him go.”
During his funeral, no one held my hand. Afterward, my mother drove me to a mental institution, dropped me off at the door and drove away. No one visited me. When they released me, I walked to my empty home that by then had every utility shut off.
I was kind of angry at the world at that point. My therapist, who was the only one speaking to me at that point (and then only because she was getting paid for it) decided she might want to give me a lesson on forgiveness... since it was pretty obvious that I was kinda bitter and had absolutely nothing to lose by taking revenge on the population in general.
So, it was the story of Christ on the cross... and forgive them they know not what they do. I read the Bible by the streetlamps outside of my house because I had no electricity. It was what I clung to. As I started trying to rebuild my life, it was the only road-map I had.
At some point in all this, it stopped being less about seeing my son again (although that will never fade completely) and more about how Christ was going to save my soul. Not from demons, or brimstone or any of that silliness which honestly doesn't frighten me anyway, but from myself. How he was going to change me to be more like him.
My faith has shaped EVERYTHING in my life since then. It has guided me every step of the way. It is the reason I pulled myself up instead of slitting my wrists. It is the reason I had the strength to be weak enough to recognize the gift that was presented to me in the form of my current husband when he appeared. It is the reason I committed myself to fixing the relationship with my other children and with my family. It is what gave me strength to finish college and start a new career. And yes, it is what guides me to do the charity work, that is exceptionally important to me, as a way to help others who are in as bad of shape, or worse, than I was when I found Jesus. It affects every single aspect of my life that is important to me.
So obviously, you can see where your opinions on whether or not I'm mature in my faith or whether I am a true Christian mean absolutely bugger-all to me. Attempting to persuade me to believe in what I believe to be untrue by “shaming” me about my “questionable” Christianity are utterly useless. I don't care if I'm part of any particular club. I firmly believe I was put on my path by Christ. Now, since I am surely not the first person you and your ilk have tried the bully tactics on, you might want to ask yourself how many “real” Christians would be swayed by peer-pressure. Would you? And who's work would be done if your tactics were successful?
With that, I won't be addressing the issue of my validity as a Christian again. Fling the accusations as much as you, and the others, like. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Good for you, Melissa. I admire your faith in yourself and in your belief system. It must have been difficult for you to write all that down, but, being called out, judged and attacked often makes us do things we never thought we could do. God bless you.
How hard this must have been for you, Melissa, I cannot fathom. You're such an incredibly strong woman, daughter, mother, wife, and follower of Christ...I have great respect and admiration for you and your journey.
Rock on, girl.
MelissaBarrett: First things first - I am sincerely sorry about and feel for you regarding the death of your son, about the past loss of your other children, and all the difficulties you endured. It is commendable that you chose to let your difficulties draw you to God, rather than driving you to anger and bitterness. While no one can fully understand another's grief, and the death of a child probably tops the list of difficult circumstances, I do sympathize, having also experienced the unexpected and premature death of my mother (my sole parent who raised me) while young, significant losses and extremely difficult situations, including those that were emotionally and physically dangerous.
In previous forums, I felt very bullied by you and others who together criticized, mocked and judged. When I saw you beginning with my sister-in-Christ as you had with me, and you were yet again standing with those outside your spiritual family, I came to her defense and confronted you.
If I speak anything against God's Word, then do not accept it. But if I speak the truths that God is our Creator and that we were (as recorded in his Spirit-inspired Word) created in his image, then why do you disagree? Why not let evolutionists defend themselves in their un-witnessed claims about that which occurred over billions of years?
My reasons for following Christ were not night terrors, a sprained ankle and some headaches, as you say. I followed Christ because from the beginning he REVEALED himself to me and sealed me with his Holy Spirit.
Regardless of your opinions, I will persist in the work our Creator and Lord has given to me. I begin the forums within Christian categories, and my work is really more for Christians who have the Spirit than it is for unbelievers or for purposes of evangelism. This is the verse our Lord now gives me: "Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God's will. Then you will receive all that he has promised." (Hebrews 10:36)
May God bless you, MelissaBarrett, and give you days of joy instead of sorrow.
IMO, spiritual maturity comes about from walking through the wreckage that is created in our lives and still trusting that there is a reason for us to KEEP walking. And then, there are the amazing rewards that come from walking into the dark with the absolute certainty that we will see the sun before it's all over. I'd say your husband and children are gifts to the world all by themselves, but they are special gifts for you from the Lord who never left your side during that entire time. You deserve your own star on the walk of faith, if you ask me.
Thank you Mo, you know I love you. My husband and children are indeed gifts both to the world and especially to me. And no, no star for me (I'd trip over it anyway) but I've been around that block enough to be sure what it looks like anyway. I'm also mature enough not to go wandering into the woods with strangers just because they say they know the road better.
All trees, except for evergreens, are dead (or at least dormant) in winter. Are you a Spruce? I see words and words and words and words from so many Christians on this forum. Y'all go on and on about fruit, but we can never seem to shake any from your branches.
Turn the other cheek.
A kind word turns away wrath.
Do not quarrel amongst yourselves.
I never see that kind of behavior from the Christians here. I also never see a lot of love, joy, peace, patience, etc. Just a whole lot of combative, confrontational, divisive WORDS.
What you don't seem to get is how unpleasant and belligerent you're being while claiming Christ. You think you make good arguments, but they are weak. She points this out to you, but instead of being humble and considering that your debate methods need work, you attack her personally. "You're either for us or against us" is such an archaic statement. There are gray areas everywhere, even in Christianity.
In saying "You're either for us or against us" Lybrah was pointing out that if someone is repeatedly coming against God's children, even to the point of bullying which she has in other forums, then she is not making herself for us and the message of Christ.
She is also saying she can speak for God as to who is in or out. Presumably making her more righteous than Jesus who refuse to do that sort of thing.
Jesus told us exactly who is in or out. There are no secrets. There is nothing hidden that will not be made known. I cannot make decisions for God. I only listen to the spirit of a person. Or did no one know that "out of the abundance of the heart; the mouth speaks." To me, it means that you tend to say how you feel. You tend to say what you believe from your lips. The good shepherd said, "My sheep know my voice."
CJ, sounds like two egos beating on each other -- not two children of God.
Someone who preaches lies and calls their self Christian is not helping Christ. I agree, bullying is not good, but neither is being arrogant and lying.
We need to be humble to God and Truth, not church dogma. Church dogma is the first step. A literal reading of the Bible is only the first step. You have to take on the mantle of humility to God and ask for more answers. You have to read the Bible with the Holy Spirit.
If you do, I sincerely doubt if you will find anything in the Bible against evolution.
The evil ones who have perverted evolution have no doubt perverted Christianity, too. They love to be divisive -- pitting us against them. Stop it!
Be humble to God, not to your own ego and your own ideas.
My own ideas are merely a stepping stone on my own path toward Truth. I know that I have not yet arrived, but I'm on my way.
Stay humble to God and only to Him. That's the loving thing to do.
Well, Melissa, good points, but I have experienced dozens of miracles and I know with a certainty that anyone walking across water is no guarantee of following Christ. The Pharaoh's priests had their magic, but Aaron and Moses defeated it because theirs came from God and not ego.
After a lifetime of learning, I know that I have far more to learn.
Lybrah is not being very loving, but in fact egotistical. That is her fruit.
The Bible is not to be read literally, but spiritually. That's not as easy as it sounds. It has taken me a lifetime to find a few hidden scraps of wisdom in Genesis.
I agree with you. Some people call themselves Christians, but they don't act like it.
The problem is ego -- the very thing that Christ said we need to let die -- the urge to be "first." Humility (last) is the antidote.
David Lack could confess that Jesus was the son of god. He was a devout Christian. He was also an eminent evolutionary biologist who received the Darwin Medal from the royal society for his work on evolutionary theory. Look him up. And here is a list of other scientific thinkers who also happened to be Christian. So I ask again:
1) Why should I believe you are the "real" Christian and that David Lack and others like him are "fake"?
2) If anyone can say they believe Jesus is the son of god including people sent to deceive, then doesn't that make such a confession useless as a way of determining if someone is a real Christian? Again how does anyone on this forum know that you are not the fake Christian?
3) Is god free to deliver messages via any means he chooses, including through those who do not believe in god? If so, how do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner, and others?
4) Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?
Direct answers to these questions would be much appreciated, thanks.
Would you like to answer the follow up questions I asked? I'm trying to see things from your perspective, but I'm really struggling. David Lack could confess that Jesus was the son of god because he was a devout Christian. He also received the Darwin Medal from the royal society for his work on evolutionary theory. So:
1) Why should I believe you are the "real" Christian and that David Lack and others like him are "fake"?
2) If anyone can say they believe Jesus is the son of god including people sent to deceive, then doesn't that make such a confession useless as a way of determining if someone is a real Christian? Again how does anyone on this forum know that you are not the fake Christian?
3) Is god free to deliver messages via any means he chooses, including through those who do not believe in god? If so, how do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner, and others on the forum?
4) Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?
I know it isn't directed at me, but I'm going to answer you, since apparently none of the other Christians are
1) If you believe in Christ and commit yourself to following him, you are a Christian. Period. The only fake Christians are ones pretending to follow Christ. And no, you can't tell them apart. No one can read their hearts except Christ. Anyone who presumes to have that ability better be ready to turn some water into wine.
2) Again, no one knows except Christ.
3) God is free to do just about anything he damn well pleases.
4) Anything is possible because of point three. No one knows the mind of God. That's why it's good to actually listen and take everything in, before he gets more pointed in teaching you a lesson he wants you to know.
To answer your question about the delay, I was delayed in answering because 1) my children needed me, and 2) I was awaiting direction from the Spirit (I may at times make a hasty response, but this is not really wise).
As for your questions:
1) I make no claims or judgments as to whether David Lack was a true believer/Christian or not. Even as a true Christian, he can be deceived about many things. "Let God be true and every man a liar". You will get full truth from God alone. The amount of truth and falsehood you get from people depends on how much time they invest in studying God's Word, how much time they spend with God, how much they speak on their own versus letting the Holy Spirit guide them, and so on.
There are Christians (I believe even true Christians) who believe in and are deceived by evolution theory. Some simply haven't paid much attention to it, and hearing some truths (which it does have) are content to go along with it. Some simply practice a "watered down" Christianity or a "compromising" Christianity where they try to embrace both the Lord and the World. But God has admonished us in James 4:4: "Adulterers! Do you not know that the love of this world is hatred toward God? Therefore whoever chooses to be a friend of this world is an enemy of God."
Amongst the most zealous evolution-pushers you will find primarily atheists. Amongst the most Spirit-led believers, you will find mostly Creationists of some form or another. Now they disagree about some things, because God alone knows all things. I could be wrong about this particular point, but it might not be wise to insist we know the age of the earth since it is not clearly stated in the Word, and it looks as if there are too many unknowns for us to know it based on the Word (for example, is "day" literal, representative of a time period, or strictly symbolic?; how long were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and how long were animals roaming on the earth, before decay and death even entered the picture; etc.)
2) In distinguishing true from false teachers, top amongst our methods for testing is whether they confess the name of the Lord Jesus or not. Jesus is truth, and anyone who denies the truth, is thus recognized as a false teacher. So we can easily determine a vast amount of false teachers. But, yes, even for the believer who is testing the spirits to find the true Spirit, he/she must distinguish between those that are true Christians and those that are wolves in sheep's clothing. We may examine other ways of "confessing" that Jesus is Lord, as "confession" of such involves more than just SAYING they are a believer. Jesus is the Word in the flesh; therefore, anyone who denies the Word (even if they say they believe in Jesus and are a Christian) is denying Jesus! We "confess" with our actions as well. The TRUE Christian will produce PRIMARILY fruit that comes from the Spirit, while the FALSE Christian will produce primarily that which comes from their father the devil, not God. So if, say, a priest claims to be God's but is regularly molesting children, and we know this is the devil's work and not God's ways, we of course doubt that person is a believer. We can closely examine the overall actions of the person (no, not slips here and there; our fleshly sinful nature will exist to a certain degree until Jesus's return when we are given our new spiritual bodies and made perfect; we are DECLARED perfect and righteous only because Jesus has taken our punishment onto himself and NOT because we are righteous on our own). We can also closely examine the reliance on the Word and the Spirit, and to a degree distinguish the true from the false believers. God alone may know with certainty who is the true believer, as Melissa stated, but believers are instructed to "test the spirits" so that we will not be misled. The unbeliever doesn't yet have any way to distinguish who is the true and who is the untrue believer, and it is really irrelevant for them because they do not believe the message anyway.
3) The Holy Spirit is placed within true believers. Unbelievers, blinded by the deceiver, will not speak the words of the Spirit which they do not possess. If they become believers, then yes, the Spirit will speak through them also, but if at this time the Spirit is not within them, how can the Spirit speak through them? God always had his prophets and his children deliver the messages throughout the Word (and even a donkey would do, since the donkey and all animals are God's), but he NEVER delivered messages through false prophets or unbelievers. Now he may USE an unbeliever to accomplish his purposes. He could use unbelievers to discipline those of us who are his children (as many nations were used to discipline Israel). Though it wasn't my plan or intent, unbelievers on these forums have inadvertently helped me make a stronger case against evolution by clarifying some terms for me, so the truth of my message about evolution will not be lost in any inaccurate technicalities.
4) This forum is only a small part of the plan God has revealed to me. It's proved very helpful thus far. God reveals what he wants to reveal to us; nothing more and nothing less. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:16). We don't need to fully understand God's mind and ways (that is beyond any person), but we do, like Jesus, need to be obedient to God's instructions given to us through the Spirit.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I have some follow up questions if you don't mind. Take your time in answering. I understand family commitments are more important than posting on here. Absolutely no rush.
1) About David lack you said “Even as a true Christian, he can be deceived about many things.” If so doesn't that mean you, as a true Christian, could also be deceived about many things?
2) You said “only god can know with any certainty” who is a true believer. Does that mean those on the forum you have judged not to be true believers could be true believers after all? In other words, could you be wrong about those people, simply because you are not god?
3) If only god knows for certain who is a true believer, and even true believers can be deceived, is it fair to say that any of the following are possibilities:
A) You are a true believer, and the holy spirit is speaking through you;
B) You are a true believer, but you are deceived about certain things;
C) You are not a true believer, so the holy spirit is not speaking through you.
My question is: as I don't know you outside of this forum, I can't tell whether your actions produce "fruit that come from the spirit" etc. Therefore based on what I can tell about you from the forum, what reasons do I have to believe that A applies to you and not B?
4) If you are unable to determine the reason god instructed you to come to the forum, is it possible that the lesson intended from this discussion, is for you? And is it possible that god has "used" this discussion to reveal the possibility that you are being deceived in some way in your understanding of the relationship between science and Christianity?
1) Yes, I can also be deceived about many things, but in this particular case God through his Spirit has already confirmed to me the work I am doing regarding the casting down of the imaginations (not the truthful aspects) within evolution theory, and the true declarations that God is our Creator and that he created us in his image, as it is written in his Spirit-inspired Word.
I always pay attention when I get a word from within God's inspired Word repeatedly, and God uses his Word to speak to me (he may speak to others slightly differently, but still coming from the Word and the Spirit). So, for example, when I was told at the detention center where I worked as suicide and crisis LPC that because of my curvaceous figure I should avoid wearing any dresses (even church dresses, mind you) and I should "cover" my chest with an oversized sweater, I was distressed because I had always made sure my dresses and skirts were proper length and no cleavage was showing, etc. I asked God about the situation, and within hours I was hearing OVER and OVER (from preachers on the radio, from randomly opening my bible) a verse he had NEVER placed in my path before: "Man looks at the outer appearance, but God looks at the heart." My heart was to help these kids in detention, and God was confirming to me that this was all he really cared about.
My posts on this forum are a small part of a larger movement to return God's people to the eternal truths that God is our Creator and we have been created in his very image. Last year some of us celebrated the first "Creation Day" on October 18 to make this declaration. As I was working on initiating "Creation Day", I was given another verse NEVER before given me as a message, and this time it came a whooping ten or so times! Over and over the verse came out of nowhere: "I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut." God has called many of us to cast down the imaginations in the highly exalted places; some listen, some don't. He hasn't called everyone to because he doesn't have the same call for everyone.
Even in making the single declaration that whoever denies the Word denies Jesus, as Jesus is the Word in the flesh, I said something like this to God, "This may upset people; I can take it out, but if you want me to have it in, I need a sign and it needs to be that which is more unlikely to happen so that I will know it is truly you." Now about a week earlier my computer had suddenly stopped connecting to the internet and I planned to take it to someone to fix. During the time without internet, I was working on my writing, "He Who Forms the Mountains: Casting Down Imaginations within Evolution Theory with Eight Truths", from which the forums have come. So I said, "If it is your will that I state that whoever denies the Word may be denying Jesus, then without me taking the computer to be fixed, let the internet suddenly be working." And though it hadn't worked for a week or so, suddenly without being fixed by anyone, the internet was working and on!
2) I have not judged that anyone on these forums who claims to be a Christian is not one. It seems that my comments and the comments of one of my sisters are being confused. I understand why my sister has accused Melissa of not being a true Christian, but I have not actually made the accusation, and in truth I don't know if she is or not. Still, I question why she continually attacks me and other Christians, and makes so many points for atheism, and I have pointed this out to her. My first interaction with Melissa was her criticizing me for praying for someone. Does that mean she's not a Christian? No. But she has given a lot of reasons for concern.
3) Generally speaking, the true answers are A and B. The true answer at the current time in our specific case at hand is A (I may have been confused about a couple of terms, etc, but not the overall work). The reason you have for believing that in the present case A applies and not B is this: I have spoken only truths from within God's inspired Word; you may verify them for yourself by looking in the Word. If I speak on my own, then you have no reason to believe me. But if through the Spirit I declare what God through his Word declares, then it really is not me you are believing, but the one who inspired his Word in the first place.
4) I have learned lessons here, but the eternal truths remain, and I will continue about my Father's business, as all his children are called to do in various forms. I don't know the full extent of God's will, and that may be because it would overwhelm a person as insignificant as me. I'll just continue to listen to his voice and follow the Spirit's lead.
Lybrah, your language is divisive and not loving.
"Again, she who is not with us is against us. Period."
Ken Ham once said on one of his videos, "Who do you believe, God or science?"
Of course, his audience said, "God," but Ham had loaded the question with a false dichotomy. The divide is not between science and God, but between science and Ken Ham. It is between science and Ken Ham's interpretation.
Ken Ham wants people to take the lazy interpretation of the Bible (literal), but Jesus said that the way to salvation is a narrow, difficult path -- not an easy, literal one.
God created the reality that science studies. God and science are tight.
It's the atheistic scientists and biblical literalists who are in the wrong.
Those who say they believe in Christ, but who tell lies about salvation are not being "with Christ."
You need to remain humble and hungry, because there is much more to learn. Learning will likely be a forever process. Don't ever think you know it all. So, stop being divisive and arrogant.
Be loving and understanding.
Dangerous philosophy in Christ.
People in this conversation have named God and his son "divisive" and "arrogant" in so many colorful renditions. It is written that THEY would. Truth is what matters. Humility does not lean to his/her own understanding. Humility says what Jesus said. In this case, "he who is not for me is against me." And what again was your response to the powerful words of Jesus???
Put ten Christians in a room, and you have ten interpretations of the Bible.
Put a Christian; an atheist; and an agnostic; you have only one interpretation.
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
Yeah right. I'm sure atheists and agnostics love God.
Not even all theists love God.
Uh...did you just say...nah!!!
Atheists love God???... Agnostics love..? You are not about to jump out of these bushes with some cameras or something...???
What the heck are you talking about? You're the one that said that, not me. Why don't you go back and read what you wrote.
HAAAAAAAHHHHAAAHAHA!!! You didn't get that the SOLE interpretation of the bible in "my room" would be of the Christian???
Maybe YOU should re-read what I wrote...
Ok. I see now you were saying only a Christian can interpret the Bible.
Which is, of course, completely untrue.
What I'm saying is that only Christians have a chance at understanding and interpretation. The bible tells us that. It takes the spirit of God to try the spirit of God. To receive his spirit, we must first believe that he IS, and is a rewarder of them that seek him. Them "a" categories don't fit that description.
And I say anyone does. Christians aren't specially linked to God. Anyone can be.
I'll remind you that there are thousands of different interpretations of the Bible by Christians themselves.
How do you explain that?
Many Christians are grasping at straws.
I can see the judgment day picketers now... "WE want eternal life on OUR terms!!!"
Why would God only single out a select few Christians to guide in interpretation?
And coincidently, only those who believe exactly as YOU do?
We've gone here recently.
God doesn't single out a select few.
Truth is, only a select few single him... see...???
I believe the bible. It is where I get all my Jesus info. Why else would I be "bothered"???
Belief that the bible illustrates the spirit of God through Jesus is necessary to be Christian. We have no compass without it. It confirms the true spirit of God. His nature is written for all to see.
His voice is heard and understood by those with faith in him.
I think everyone has God's compass. Most prefer to ignore it. (Not you). Otherwise, how would we be directed to God without it in the first place?
That is not what the bible teaches; but you are entitled to your view.
Well then, what does the Bible say about how we get it? From your own experience, what was that like for you?
While it is true that we are all somewhat "drawn" to God; we may not navigate his path without faith in him. We must FIRST believe that he is...and rewards....
This is all public knowledge that some just will not understand.
I believe in God. But it's been slow coming, in fits and starts. But I feel almost magnetically drawn towards him, and it GROWS every day. I feel like he's testing me. And changing me, too. Every time I have a major "experience", I seem to think of things a little differently than before. Like I WANT to be nicer to people. More compassion. Less desire for the "normal" things that every one else wants(money, "stuff", etc.) I often suspect I'm a pain to God, because I am so difficult, always questioning, not really being respectful towards him.I have trouble with things like humbleness.
The Lord hates a proud look. We cannot thump our chests in his direction (he knows ALL our secrets.)
Pride forces us to feel as if we have made it to some great plateau on account of our hard work and effort. Few of us realize that we literally cannot walk across the street without the grace of God. Humility is very important.
I encourage you on your journey. You are almost there. Confession is step one in the death of pride
You claim to follow the teaching of the bible, but in practice you do not. Why for instance do you admit that you live in a matriarchal society when the bible clearly directs us to a patriarchal society? Shouldn't you find the father of your children and submit to him to follow the bible as you claim to?
I have NEVER claimed a matriarchal anything. You just lied on me...
However, my childrens' father is beside me. Submission is a work in progress.
I agree with all of the bible entirely and I do my best in practice.
So the description you gave of your neighbourhood a while back was not accurate then? Did you marry your children's father as a virgin and remain faithful to him? Really I don't care for you to answer, but if you are going to go around telling others how perfect the bible is and how we should follow it's ways then you should be a shinning example of it in action. To do so you must have married as a virgin and spent your life being fruitful and multiplying, to do anything other would be hypocritical.
You amaze me with your judgment.
The description of my hood was more of a statistical/cultural observance. My ability to chime right along with many of the numbers in the stats has been remarkable; my mind and body sometimes go their opposite ways. But I grow more everyday. I become wiser and less "me" every other day.
There is a process to "becoming". But with God, there's grace, chastising, refining, preparation, and more grace. We grow in grace.
I'm growing. I know better. And I have answered to the Lord in truth and humility for my actions. And I will again.
We must have the right mindset about ourselves. It starts humbly.
So, your not married to the father of your children and yet you are willing to give others advice on how to be and do as the bible says? Forgive me as I don't care at all, but I have lived a life far closer to being biblically righteous than you and yet you claim to be following the word of God. Perhaps you should start in your own backyard.
Boy, am I glad that God and all people aren't as judgmental and non forgiving as you seem to be here! She was talking about humility and being honest about her past, and you come to judge her for it. That is awful. Then the setting up to be so self righteous.
Truth is, that you don't have to be a perfect person (as none of us are) to have respect for morals and morality, and be drawn to truth, etc. To those of us that have ever made some poor choices, and been forgiven for those things, they understand the love and mercy and grace of God. I will take that over harsh judgement any day.
I get that and am in 100% agreement. You are correct. We should not judge other unless they are judging us. Here we have someone who proclaims to follow the bible biblically and yet is unmarried with children. Not only does she admit that her community is matriarchal in nature but does nothing to change her status as was told for her to do by her bible. Now if she was minding her own business I would certainly would support her in her desire to improve her situation. But as she put herself on a pedestal and pretends and preaches she is what we all be striving for I think it's time we subject her to the same analysis that the bible says we should subject ourselves to. Forgive sure, but do we forgive someone who continues to make the same errors. If she can freely admit to being attracted to mens dangly bits and going for it then she should be aware that she should be open for criticism. Jesus according to the bible said it's better to cut out your eyes than to be subject to that kind of temptation.
You miss me frequently. And I know it's not an accident. You just miss...
First, my community has become somewhat matriarchal because of the issues I mentioned with that. There are many factors as to why those things are, but I have done as I am supposed to behind the myriad of mistakes.
Secondly, I did not admit to being attracted to nor going for dangly bits. My conversation was about the temptation of naked bodies and how MANY are tempted by those bits (male and female alike.
But since you know that no one is perfect and no one can claim to be; then the message dies??? NEVER!!!
We're gonna tell about the truth. Because truth is important. I am wrong for having two children unmarried. But I know... that TRUTH is important to God. We cannot fix a leak that we cannot see; especially if we are not aware of the puddle.
You let me worry about my puddles. And you start worrying about your puddles.
I'm only the one who informed you of the leak. Up to you to patch. I cannot patch it for you... my hands are busy patching my own.
You feel me??? my guess is no...
So, according to your standard, only the "righteous" have the right to preach the Biblical standard!
That leaves everyone wanting, so the Bible would never be preached.
Do you have difficulty differentiating between the message and the messenger?
Even so, Jesus, indeed meets your criteria, of one who practiced what He taught. If you are so adamant that you are more righteous than (us), you are now being judged by your own words/standards, and found wanting too.
Surely, you should heed your own advice, and obey Jesus' teachings!
So "Do as I say, not as I do." is perfectly acceptable to you?
And it's only a forgiven mistake (sin) if you stop doing it. Right? I mean I wouldn't take advice on how to stop doing drugs from someone that currently had a needle stuck in their arm.
But, you should take advice from one who NEVER had taken drugs.
Sadly, most don't listen to the one and only source of teaching.
It's easy to nullify the messenger, but you'd have a tougher time nullifying the message.
Oh no, I listen to the Bible. I just don't listen to "preaching". I don't see the word anywhere on these forums... nor anyone who is speaking it.
I don't see anyone worthy of being the messenger. Truth be told, one isn't needed either. I've always found that those saying "follow me to get to Christ's words" and those professing to speak them tend to lead people away rather than to.
We all have access to a Bible. Which is good, because there damn sure isn't a worthy prophet to be found anywhere around here. A true prophet would need only post a link to an online bible... no interpretation -or posturing- needed or desired.
That's exactly why I TRY to keep genaea out of it. I just keep gettn "drug" back in... lol!!!
No problem. One may say what he wishes; and make whatever judgment he deems necessary about me. I'm already dead! I made sure of that first.
Truly grateful to be of service...
Glad you have one of those heart/ear thingies too.
If we all waited around for perfect people to give us advice, we'd all be waiting a really long time.
At least CGENAEA is willing to admit her mistakes, and make an effort to improve herself. I admire her for that.
I think she is wrong about some things, yet she still has something to offer society. I've gotten a thing or two from her myself, while I disagree on a lot of what she says. Her search for wisdom inspires me.
Just so you know...I appreciate your comment here. Admitting mistakes is the easy part for me. I am not on trial.
I do realize that I am wrong about some things sometimes. I welcome correction from biblically prescribed counsel. Discussion that corrects my thinking is requested. Correctly divided biblical reproof works every time.
You know... I knew it!!!
People believe that God searches the heart for perfection. That is partly why most people are so afraid of this life. God searches the heart for faith. For when we trust him, we believe what he says. When we believe what he says, we see ourselves in the correct light and go to him for grace as he improves our being. No one can claim perfection. But faith accounts as righteousness.
And those poor folk created with no faith do not trust the shamans. So do not believe what they, or He, says. So do not go to Him. And so cannot be improved and will therefore burn forever. Without righteousness.
Thanks a lot!
If I may interject something here, I'm going to be slightly transparent here. My father (R.I.P) taught me to stay away from drugs, but he was a drug addict. I thought of him as a hypocrite because I asked how he could tell me one thing while doing another. Two years later he was beaten nearly to death by his dealer. Basic moral of the story is this, it is easy to look at actions as hypocritical, but you cannot always know what hardships one is facing as a result of choices. So sometimes it is worthwhile to hear someone out even if on the surface their actions do not reflect their words
And yet no one will hear others out. Is it okay for her to throw scripture at people and not okay for others to throw it at her. Is it okay for her tell me and others that we will will burn in hell for their actions and behaviors and somehow not okay for others to tell her the very same thing?
Burn in hell??? Have you heard me say that??? Hmmm...
I really do not mind you throwing anything at me. I'm pretty secure there... what's the problem???
I have not hurt you. I have not spoken badly about you. I have a great deal of respect for your mind.
Are my scriptures a bother for you? If so, why???
My past has nothing to do with my present/future. Our God has made provisions for us. Grace for the faithful. It too is written.
Jesus is our example. He is our guide. I point to him; not me.
You've invented your version of God that Scripture only applies to others. You throw scripture at people and claim you didn't write the stuff, well I'm doing the same thing. I personally think it's fine to be a single mom by choice, but scripture says different. While you can't change the past you can do as you expect others do and follow scripture.
thanks for the knowledge...
My past is unchanged and will ever be. But God has given me peace with it all and wisdom to help another with the life I have lived. It's a new day.
The bible is true. I am not exempted from fierce punishment if my mind changes. I know that I must stay close to God. It is the only way to become as he desires.
That is my version of God and I have reproofed my inner spirit by what is written to ensure that I am becoming correctly.
Stay tuned for my NEXT detour from the path laid for me. I will show you how humility and forgiveness works at the throne of grace.
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
― Isaac Asimov
Yes! When atheists read the book; they get all confounded.
Unfortunately, Evangelical Christians are the the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
You could never convince me that I should abandon my faith, nor could any of the atheists on these boards. Some of the Christians, however, have pushed me very close.
Nope, they just want in your door.
Fundies want in your bedroom and -assuming you are a woman- your uterus.
Not really going to get too deep into that. I will say that in spite of the fact that a message from God can come from different (even unlikely) places, some (even me at times) sometimes question the motives of those that believe differently when they quote scripture
And with all due respect (and you know I love you) If scripture is true, then it is true no matter who says it or what their motivations are. Scripture, mind you, not anyone's interpretation of it. The stuff actually written, not paraphrasing.
I'd personally trust an atheist speaking scripture far more than a believer who won't.
I am wondering if you would be willing to describe a specific example or two of how God gives you guidance(or inspiration, however way you want to say it). Like, what happened, what did it feel like, etc.
Simple. Though still you may not get it...but here it is:
I have pondered a word of scripture, really trying to understand with no progress. Soon, a tv program; or a dream or even a random person will bring it up in conversation and explain.
It is an amazing walk of life. I have been stopped by a many of random strangers to confirm a word I heard on the inside.
I'm not special; just hungry.
That's pretty much what happens with me. I call it synchronicity. I also have a strange feeling that comes with it, like someone's saying, "Hey, you pay attention to this". But I mostly get numbers, not words. Although it can be words too. Then once I start seeing it too much, I will start researching what it might mean. It's always another piece of the puzzle.
It was written...possibly precisely, for that reason alone. It fits. It makes sense. It lives and transcends. We don't have to guess.
The evidence exists. Yea? Or, nay?
CJ, transitional bones may be near impossible to find. Only a tiny fragment of any species is ever preserved well enough to be discovered later. Weathering, bacteria, decomposition and more processes destroy evidence.
The fact that scientists are disappointed doesn't mean they've given up on evolution. You're drawing an unfounded conclusion. Non sequitur.
Ego runs mainstream media and mainstream science. True. And Ego works for Satan. So, don't give in to ego by trying to be "right." Be humble. There's much more to learn.
If evolutionary transitions take 5-20 generations -- an idea which can glorify God for His genius -- then you will likely never be able to find transitional bones. Likely less than 1% of all bones that existed are ever preserved. Species likely lasted several thousand times as long as their transitional periods. Theory, yes. But it would help explain the gaps.
I read Walt Brown's book, "In the Beginning..." -- a treatise on Creation Science. It was full of illogical bunk. By using such illogical garbage, guys like Walt Brown are polluting the conversation about God. That doesn't help! That's arrogance getting in the way of salvation. Stop it!
I would love to see everyone on this planet find salvation, but I'm beginning to sense that most Christians won't make it because they're too arrogant. In my own frustration, I find myself building up ego. We need to learn to back off from ego. Be humble and learn.
And please don't tell me you know all of God's Truth. You don't. That fact alone should evoke humility. Be humble and learn.
Too many Christians are spouting garbage, repeating tired old dogma about science that has been disproven or found irrelevant.
The first law is love! Show it. Live it. Be humble and learn.
When it comes to that which is man-made, as the theory of evolution is, then it makes sense to be selective - take out the truth (microevolution) and toss the fantasy (macroevolution). Still, because "evolution theory" involves both micro and macroevolution, it isn't wise to say we believe in evolution theory (which implies the whole of it) if we don't believe in the proposed inferences and speculations within macroevolution.
It is only that which comes from beyond us, from God's Spirit, as is the case with his Spirit-inspired Word, that we are not to be selective (though many are in these last days). That does not mean all scripture is literal (we have clear cases where it is not), or that all the translations are perfect. But just as God inspired the Word, so also he maintained at least the essential aspects of that Word through his Spirit - we have more ancient copies of the bible than other ancient texts, and (as noted in this forum) it is the best-seller EVER, and this is despite it being illegal in 52 countries and despite all the extensive efforts to get rid of it!
"But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." Acts 5:39
It's absolutely amazing that you put the Theory of Evolution through extreme rigors of scrutiny, while you completely and wholeheartedly BELIEVE that SUPERNATURAL forces CREATED us.....by simply reading ONE book, written by primitive uneducated goat herders....claiming that they knew who the Creator was. This is a serious case of willful ignorance.
You have NO EVIDENCE of this God.....Yet you have no problem accepting it as fact.
You have NO EVIDENCE that this nonexistent God created ANYTHING....Yet you believe.
You have NO EVIDENCE of Satan.....Yet you keep using his name as if it's relevant in discussion.
It's great that you question Evolution. Science even encourages us to question EVERYTHING. But that means that you must also question the beliefs that you have been brainwashed into believing as well....something that you have failed, to even consider doing. You just find reasons to believe that this primitive fairy tale is true, while putting the Theory of Evolution through suffocating scrutiny. It's time for a little honesty, don't you think?
Can you prove that purple pregnant male unicorns don't?
So you fight alongside the Atheists, yet claim to be a Christian. You're either with us believers, or you're not. Seems to me that you're not. There is no middle ground or gray area, it's black and white only. With us, or against us!
Saw your similar post, Lybrah, after I submitted mine! Looks like the Spirit was leading us in the same direction!
Wow. Sure glad God didn't leave you in charge of redeeming souls.
Motown2Chitown: I won't make a judgment as to whether someone who claims to be a Christian is or not, but I will confront a so-called Christian who continually comes against me and my other brothers and sisters-in-Christ. To illustrate the situation, (regardless of what your actual family consisted of) imagine for a moment your earthly sister continually spoke against you and your father, and continually stuck up for the neighbors who were trying to destroy your father. You would, no doubt, confront her about this. The person who is so often aligning herself with unbelievers and speaking against the believers on here, has also expressed other concerning opinions: she has expressed that she is not trying to please God, she has expressed that she is not trying to keep the unity of the Spirit, she has expressed that she does not even have a concept of the Spirit, she has expressed little knowledge of her Father's words, she has expressed more zeal for evolution theory than for her Father, etc. Do you see why she would be confronted?
All of which is ultimately between her and her Heavenly Father-not her siblings in Christ. You've no right to judge, IMO, and very strict commands from Jesus NOT TO. Don't know, but my God is big enough to deal with his children all on his own. He doesn't need me to supervise them. I'd rather let someone else's sin slide (if that's how you see it) than to sin myself in an effort to sway, correct, or judge them.
But that's just me. I see behavior from my Christian family in this forum that I personally find as appalling as that of militant anti-theists. I hold myself to a standard that I believe has been set for me by Jesus. I try to do what I believe he would do in any given situation. I fall short occasionally, as do we all. But one thing I try never to do is to set myself up as someone's savior or mentor. I take my cues from God alone, not from everyone who follows him.
Personally, there is no one who knows the secret heart of another-save for God himself, and he has NEVER been shy about confronting me about ungodly behavior. I'm sure he's been the same with you. Why assume that you must take up the mantle for him with his other children. Love them. Be patient with them. Enjoy life with them. Have faith in God that he has saved them-because, you aren't able to do that.
I am just grateful that he is God, and we're not. No one would get into Heaven but us if most humans had their way. Sad, really, because there are a lot of folks I'd love to see there.
Motown2Chitown, you make many good points, but let me give you a little more detail of the situation. My first meeting with this woman was on someone else's forum (nothing to do with evolution), at which time she came against me. She has since then followed me around on forums, attacking me at every point. I confronted her on this. At one point, she came right out and said she "judged" me and was "better" than me. I personally have not made any judgments as to her salvation (please don't confuse my statements with anyone else's). Nonetheless, I have struggled with it and questioned why she is behaving as she is if she is in fact a Christian as she says. It is damaging that she is following me around, now very active in the forums I begin, defending that which is not from God and attacking biblical truths.
I haven't said anything about her going to hell (again, please don't confuse my statements with others). You state "No one would get into Heaven but us if most humans had their way." This is the polar opposite of my desire - I pray God has mercy on ALL, even those who have harmed me, and can barely stand the thought of ANY human in hell, which was created for the demons.
Because we will not have our perfected spiritual bodies until the day Jesus returns, we continue to stumble over our earthly sinful nature, and thus slip here and there. We all slip. If me or my sisters have said what we shouldn't have, then I apologize for both myself and for them. I believe with all my heart that some on here are my sisters and brothers; others I can't quite tell. Still others are my FUTURE sisters and brothers. And others, well...I pray mercy through Jesus' sacrifice even for them.
God bless you, Motown2Chitown.
Thanks for the blessing! I'll take all the blessings and prayers I can get.
I just think it's very important for us to encourage each other on our walks, rather than doubting each other or being too worried about whether or not we agree about everything. We all tend to be passionate about some things more than others, and occasionally, we'll all stumble. I have. A lot.
I just try to be as loving and as merciful and as patient with others as God has been with me. And to never doubt anyone's faith. I do think we tend to be way harder on each other than we need to be.
Best wishes, and thanks for the thoughtful reply. The only thing I see sometimes that bothers me is that we are so quick to allow our personal feelings to color what we say and do. Regardless of how we are treated, I think it's imperative that we make becoming like Jesus the most important goal of our faith walk.
All the rest falls into place from there.
You love the Lord and you speak truth, and God will give you your due reward!
I cannot claim to love you and watch you walk off a cliff without screaming to the top of my lungs, "CLIFF AHEAD! TURN AROUND. See, there is much to be learned when you brag about your sin. It sends the message that you like it. Like Jesus??? His response at the the well was not, "Girl it's ok, you aint perfect! " There is a way of thought that is correct for Christians. A way of living unspotted from the world's system. We are in the world; not of it. Our thought must be bridled too.
What does that have to do with any of us? We don't care what you want to claim, it is irrelevant. In fact, we don't want your love because it is obvious to anyone that you are not offering love, but instead are showing disrespect to us by trying to tell us what to believe. We would much rather have your respect to not scream at us to the top of your lungs. But, since you don't care about us and only about yourself, then you leave us no choice but to demand your respect since you refuse to offer any.
We will respect you by not telling you what to believe, you need to show the same respect. Understand?
I try in general not to brag about anything ever. I'm surprised if that's what you see in my words. I can't even really speak to that assumption, otherbthan to say I'm sorry you feel that way.
King James Version (KJV)6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.5 For every man shall bear his own burden.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.
Yes, the same reason why almost everyone else here is being confronted, because they don't believe exactly the same thing as you. And, like others here, she is not rejecting or denying facts about our world, but instead is honestly accepting them because they are undeniable facts.
Looks like your on the wrong team again, MelissaBarrett, if you're claiming to be a believer. WHO are you fighting for - God or Satan?
Well, right now I'm fighting irrational, pointless questions that are made with no logic and are meant to be appeals to emotion or ignorance rather than true discussions.
I don't see either God or Satan in this thread. Let me know if they post.
God works through people, as does Satan. You should know that, of course. "She who is not with us is against us. Amen."
Yes, because my faith should be determined by peer-pressure. If every other Christian jumps off a bridge...
I don't have to agree with dishonest debate methods by other Christians.
Right. Stay on the bridge with the non-believers. That bridge is headed towards destruction.
Ah, yes... my faith should also be determined by people who are upset because I don't jump onto their bandwagon of silliness and threaten me will hell for it.
Sorry, I don't have to band with you personally or burn in hell for it. Get a grip.
Oh, so Christian beliefs are silly, now?
"Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into my kingdom." Wonder where you fall?
The POINT is that God is BEYOND provability here on earth, so that the absence of proving him reveals nothing of his existence or lack thereof. Soon enough EVERYONE will see him coming in all his glory, and every knee will bow before him!!
The point is you can't prove that something doesn't exist. It's a cop out. Everyone knows that, it in no way proves that God exists that people can't prove he doesn't.
Unless you've figured out how to prove that pregnant purple male unicorns don't exist, their presence is exactly as provable as God, according to Lybrah's logic.
You have to be careful Melissa in posting up what atheists post up...I can accept you believe evolution to be true and it will have nothing to do with how you came to accept Christ as your Saviour...Darwinian materialism is being slowly shown to be incorrect over at the Discovery Institute. Stephen Meyers Signature In The Cell and his latest book Darwin's Doubt has caused some scientists to rethink their objection to ID.
Never heard of Darwinian materialism - what is it and what does it have to do with evolution?
So someone is trying to ridicule what they don't understand and don't like by making up a new name? One that only they understand the meaning of? Or by trying to tie it to something irrelevant but undesirable?
Sad, but not unusual - it is a common tactic of the far religious right, trying to maintain ignorance throughout the world.
Such an absurd question does absolutely nothing in deconstructing my assertions....and shows nothing but SHEER DESPERATION. Don't you know that this question has been asked in one form or another, time and time again, by believers.....in essence, pleading with us to give them the semblance of just a morsel of credibility?
I'm not desperate, I'm just saying. You can't prove God doesn't exist. No little cartoon is going to help explain that one.
If the only argument that you can muster is to state something as absurd as that...then, yes it shows an outright desperate and PLEADING position. How about this???:::> YOU PROVING THE VERACITY OF YOUR ASSERTIONS....WITH EVIDENCE? That would be the honest approach. Your approach is the one most likely to be employed by someone that has a problem with integrity...and needs to play mind games.
That cartoon is right on point about your ridiculous question. Perfect analogy!
Getitrite, you should change your name to Gotitwrong.
Yes. Another method employed by those people with questionable integrity is to personally attack the messenger. It appears that there may be some people who are just angry deluded "Christians" who become downright hateful if you don't allowed them to LIE for Jesus.
See my new forum titled "I know God exists because I KNOW God - The testimony of a believer", where you will find the reason I faithfully accept the truth of God and his Word, despite my "rigorous scrutiny" of evolution theory.
How can you even say that? "Rigorous scrutiny"? We all know you don't understand evolution, not one bit of it. yet you now claim rigorous scrutiny of it?
Me thinks someones pants are on fire.
EncephaloiDead: I was replying to Getitrite, who has been questioning me and in one place questioned why I was putting evolution theory through "rigorous scrutiny" yet unquestioningly accepting God and his Word as truth.
The lovers of evolution theory have been very helpful - I've revised my statements in the few places where it was needed, and now the greater truths will not be lost, but can better come through.
All trees, except for evergreens, are dead (or at least dormant) in winter. Are you a Spruce? I see words and words and words and words from so many Christians on this forum. Y'all go on and on about fruit, but we can never seem to shake any from your branches.
Turn the other cheek.
A kind word turns away wrath.
Do not quarrel amongst yourselves.
I never see that kind of behavior from the Christians here. I also never see a lot of love, joy, peace, patience, etc. Just a whole lot of combative, confrontational, divisive WORDS.
Me ... Turning the other cheek ??? Makes for a short debate on here doesn't it ?
"Do not Quarrel among ourselves" ?? doesn't that mean we shouldn't engage in debate with anyone who has already made up their minds and have a different opinion than our own ?
i don't mean this comment argumentatively, Just curious; Should a Christ minded person debate in these forums?
Anyway ... Seems to me that when we follow through most any train of thought all the way to the end, while considering "All the evidence" ;... we come full circle and are somehow sitting on the other side of the debate.table.
I don't mean to imply that we cannot, should not, or aren't sometimes called to discuss and debate things among our Christian family-or with our brothers and sisters of other or no faiths. I just think that if we are to be known as Christians by our love, we should spend more time showing that love than being concerned about reaching consensus on absolutely everything. Some of my dearest friends are devout believers. Others do not believe. Whether we are in agreement or not about anything matters little at the end of the day. That they know I love them (and that is evidence that God loves them) is what matters most to me.
Brother or sister of no faith? Not everyone in the world is family. My brothers and sisters and mother have faith. Jesus said it like this, "they that do the will of my father".
He also said, of all the stuff you get; get an understanding. And listen to the holy spirit; when you don't know.
Whatever your take is on it, I believe that God is indeed the creator of ALL-making them no less his children than you or me. As the faithful older brother in the parable of the prodigal son, I understand your reluctance to accept that, but every child matters to a parent-not just the ones who are obedient at every turn. Also, never forget that there have been many times in the life of most believers-even AFTER they've come to know God-that their actions and words reveal anything but godliness. I'm more concerned about those moments in my own life than anyone else's. The same God who saved me wants to save everyone else-and he is the ONLY one capable of doing so. I'm certainly not, and, sadly, neither are you.
Again, this is not about me or you. It is about truth. Jesus delineated who the family is. The children think like the father says to. It is not my decision as the faithful son. It is God's.
Truth; that's it. Read what Jesus said.
"...they that do the will of my father."
People like to have their own opinions about what right is; and what should or should not be acceptable. But Jesus drew a line.
YOU are making it about you and us, by disrespecting everyone and telling us what to believe, that would be YOU. So, please don't lie and tell us it's not about you and us, when it clearly is.
We are perfectly capable of understanding truth, we don't need you to tell us what that is. We are not little children, so don't treat us like little children.
In fact, it is the non-believers here who know far more than you about your own religion than you do, so who are you to tell us anything?
This is a discussion about evolution I think. Since it is based upon religion, this is my square. Yours too, obviously.
My knowledge of scripture comes from intense study and God-given revelation of what it means and how it fits together. I have no key that no one else has.
The mindset of scripture is spiritual. That's it; that's all. You must have the spirit (not ghost, but essense or mind) of God to understand it. Our own minds are SO finite.
Hi Motown .. Good to see you are still spreading the love.
It is difficult for me to write replies because every time I do, ... dozens of pertinent things come to mind ALL At The Same Time.
And a simple thought suddenly becomes very complicated. Jesus said to love your neighbor as much as you do yourself. It is good to invite him to supper, and love him weather he comes or not. I do believe that Jesus told his disciples to go and spread the Good news among their families and friends. I do NOT believe they were told to go find all the unbelievers they can find and convert them. They weren't attempting to expand their circle of influence. It happened naturally when outsiders saw the love they had for each other and their God.. Converts were converting themselves. I'm not saying people are bad for attempting to debate their faith on the internet.
I'm just saying this type of debating is not the way they were doing it for a 110 years after Jesus died,
When we do debate we should remember foremost, Jesus said, Love our neighbors as we much as we love ourselves. ... No Exceptions.
I think Jesus died on the cross for man kinds sins ... No exceptions.
I can only put my beliefs out there for all to see ....but I can't change any ones minds about this through debate.
You have my agreement there.
I love to discuss, but I'm not big on debate as a rule. And, I always believe that if a change is to be made, God can and will take care of it.
If this is true, we should follow this train of thought through much further when reading scriptures. This should be the perimeters upon which our philosophies should be contained. When they don't, I don't believe they they are truly the teachings of Christ. Many Christians act as if all of Paul's teachings conform to Christs teachings when in my opinion they don't.
How do the teachings of Paul differ from those of Jesus?
I think ? .... "Maybe" your question makes my point?? Paul isn't Jesus, yet most Christians act as if his words came out of Jesus's mouth. It is a trick our minds play on itself. Just because his letters are included within the same binder as those letters which are said to have been written by the disciples which make direct references as to what Jesus said. We assume that Jesus would have said these things also. We give validity to Paul as if we are giving it to Jesus???
Jesus preached a message gathering the sheep while Paul's seems to instill diversity? If we are following Jesus, the words in red are all we need. If we are following Paul, be honest with ourselves and follow Paul.
Paul's message was allowed into the book that was inspired by God??? He got a gold star from our king.
Paul instilled diversity? But he let the people know that Jesus would be of no advantage to the circumcised. That seemed to place Jew and Gentile on a level surface. However, that does not seem to make a big difference. Can you give me another example of the differences in their teaching. I've heard that before, I just never get a straight answer about said differences. Please help.
Just something to think about. In 96 AD John received the Revelation. A revelation about a religion rising to power that sounds so good that it deceives even the elect calling things good which are evil and calling evil things good. Taking a truth and corrupting it just enough to lead the righteous believer astray.
Somehow prophesy seems to "Always" be perceived as futuristic as in the case of the Jewish Messiah. How do you think the deceiver is going to go about fulfilling this prophesy if it hasn't already been fulfilled approx 240 years after John received it. Compare the things which are said to be prophetic to those things which have already happened.
When it comes right down to it, ... We have all been deceived according to Gods plan. Let not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing.
edit gotta run to Wally World and get some glasses so I can see. back in a bit.
When you give, let not the right hand know what left does. That means don't broadcast a gift or being a help to someone.
The false religion has arisen. And surprisingly; they use the name of Jesus often. The truth is off just a little but definitely outside the will of God and more about the wills of men.
I' glad we agree, which would mean the 42 months has long sense begun.
And it shouldn't seem strange that everyone being asked will answer that it is those "Other" peoples beliefs which are false, such as .... If your church has a piano in it, you are not saved. Or if you have more than one wife, .... in other words, if you believe differently than I do then your belief system must be false. whenever any of the seven signs of the spirits are missing, there enters the false religion.
I think that to think to myself "that person is going to hell if I don't stop them" IS judging them. For it is written that only God knows what is in their heart. If God gives faith to those which he chooses to, and he doesn't to those he chooses not to, then where is their sin of unfaithfulness?
Does God give faith; or do we? Faithfulness is all a matter of uh....faith.
How does a friend say, "You can trust me." And then go around stabbing your posterior?
Faith in God is a do or don't situation. Going against what he said is NOT faithful. Jesus did not befriend everyone. And he was not gentle with all. Those who did not believe his message were passed over.
Judgment of whether you say what the bible says or not is available to all. People find me judgmental because I say what it means in a larger context. No problem. Just takes a little study. And if there are questions there are usually answers. Where there are no obvious answers, there is faith.
Biblical knowledge is a gift to me. I know what it says. I put it into practice. I allowed the process of renewal and it helps me to realize how he thinks. And I did it all with just one volume of books. anyone can if they want to.
My memory fails me concerning names of Chapters and verses and I'm almost too blind to do much reading, but I do remember most subject matters of scripture.
I believe it was Isiah who was being a little prideful so God told him that he didn't have anything to be prideful about, Weather he was good looking, strong, or smart or these are things which God have given him, and Isiah shouldn't be prideful about things which were given to him, that he couldn't even be prideful concerning his faithfulness, because this too was a gift from God. That God gives FAITH to those which he chooses, and he doesn't give it to those he chooses to not give faith.
These are words which it is written came straight out of Gods mouth.
Those who have faith in God have nothing to be prideful about because this too was given of the Lord. That being said; How can a loving God punish one of his children because he didn't give that child faith?
Most of the faithful Christians (including yourself) here in the forums have made statements that God has proven himself to them in in any number of personal ways, and I believe them. I feel that he has proven himself to me. You might say that we were chosen (to have faith). Does this make any of us "Special"?
Absolutely not! In high school I was chosen to be on the varsity wrestling team. Did this make me any more special that the other students in the high school? Absolutely not. There was many things in life that I was not one of the people who were chosen to do. I wasn't chosen to play basketball, I'm too short. Some people are chosen to do some things other people are chosen to do other things. Everyone are chosen for something, all things being equal.
The bible says he gave a measure of faith to everyone. He does not want any to perish. The faith that he gives/does not give, must have more to do with things that help faith to grow. Those acts definitely come from God. But we must first have a tiny bit in what he says. It's impossible to please God without it. But the bible promised that whosoever will may come. It takes faith to go to the Lord. We all have a measure of it. But many of us give that faith to money, self, family and friends, and "smart" people.
God is only a tiny belief away. Then he adds the increase (not things) of faith. He shows up and proves himself trustworthy. But we must keep trusting what he says. Not our own version of it. Truth is important here. God gave everyone faith; and allows each one to decide where it goes.
What are your thoughts about this?
Oh! I cannot find the scripture about his giving not giving faith. I know it's there...
My apologies for taking so long to reply.
my opinions are just that. my opinions, I think King Solomon summed it up when he said its all vanity. A can't see the trees because of the forest kind of thing. We find our favorite verses in scripture and then we attempt to build a belief system upon them. That is kinda like finding an apple and building our version of what a forest must look like. But all we have done is envision an orchard, calling it a forest. I found a pecan causing my forest to appear different than yours. Christianity is kinda like that. Each orchard (denomination) thinks it is a forest in and of itself. The apple orchards thinks that the world forest should produce apples; pecans are evil and will be eliminated from the great forest in the sky.
If the apples could convince the pecans of this truth, it would be paradise on earth.We find peace in knowing the great gardener in the sky will someday return and fix this problem. But in truth, someday we will realize there is no problem for us to fix then and only then will there be peace on earth.
It is written that God gives rain and sunshine to both the wheat and the tares.
Exactly. As he gave each a measure of faith. Btw, where's yours? What is truth for you concerning God? Are you a yea or a nay?
I may only offer my opinion in any of it as well. I feel that my opinions are formed from what I have gathered from what is there.
My favorite scriptures are not the only ones committed to my heart. I also remember the ones that don't make me feel so good. It is all about truth and total commitment to that for me. If I adhere to truth, I know a lie when I hear one. If I however distort the truth so as to not have moments of conviction (that help us to know right from wrong) I fool myself into an entirely different reality that looks like the real thing.
Now, in matters of the "new" school where all kinds of roads lead to the same place, that is biblically a lie. There is one narrow path. My continuing to say that ruffles some feathers, I know. But I must say what the bible says and rightly divide that. The bible agrees with itself. I may find several places of scripture to list what those who follow Christ look like and sound like. But I would be having a sore thumb
Those who want unadulterated truth will find it.
You ask "what is truth for me concerning God"? Yes there is a God!,
I'll ask you, If I had never heard about God, how would you suggest that I begin searching for truth concerning who he is, using the bible as my source ?
I started with all the red words.
The words Jesus spoke paint the picture for me.
Jesus is the example of God.
I'd start with the "thus saith the Lord part" Id then and only then read the verses where the messenger angel brought messages to mankind. I say this because these things were said long before The arrival of Jesus. Many of these messages (that were not about other prophetic events ) were foretelling how and when he should arrive. I think it necessary to do this in order to understand the full scope of Jesus's activities. These should be the foundation upon which we build our understanding of who God is. If our perception of these are incorrect, the conclusions we come to, concerning things the disciples spoke of can fall way off of the mark.
Again, this is just my opinion.
I can understand that for one with a heightened sense if intellect such as yourself. But the OT is kinda heavy. It puts one in a bad frame of mind toward the things of God that we currently enjoy. Such as the actual arrival of Jesus. He tells us the good news of it all.
For me, one cannot understand the OT without the spirit of Jesus that reminds us who God really is. Jesus has the mind of God.
My opinions, of course.
But I thought you told me that the Bible is not for unbelievers, because in order to understand it "properly" (and by properly, I mean in agreement with you) they have to have the spirit, which unbelievers don't have by definition.
Well, we were discussing a way to come to know God if one had never heard about him JMcFarland.
Ones who have the message already, and disbelieve it, are in a different category altogether.
But I've asked you the same exact question before, and gotten the opposite answer. You told me in no uncertain terms that the Bible was not for unbelievers. So how are unbelievers supposed to become believers?
Furthermore, since I was once a dedicated believer and I had the spirit then and my understanding of Scripture came from that period, how can you automatically dismiss it?
IMO Man kinds greatest problems come from finding exception. Finding excuses and alibi's for doing those things which we know we shouldn't. This is reflected in everything we (ALL) do. This may be a necessity for our survival. This is reflected in all historic accounts. We should love our neighbor "unless" ... insert any excuse, but remember ... our neighbor is afforded this same privilege.
How do we write a book instructing how to properly discern right from wrong?
In my opinion based from scripture is that one receives the message of the bible and becomes a believer.
As for having the spirit and letting it go; we have a scripture for that too.
People who love their children and serve God, generally pass that to their children. But as we know; taking a kid to church, aint taking them to the Lord always. One must accept the message in order for it to make the difference.
So yes, the bible is still not for unbelievers.
Just a thought. Have you ever taken a close look at Paul? No offense meant. In Acts 13:1-9 there were five men doing the service of the Master and Holy Spirit of the Father. Two were separated for a special purpose(1-5)...we learn one of these men was Sh'aul. The Grk. text writes his name Saulos: G 4549. We learn that this is the Grk transliteration of the Hebrew word Sh'aul (shah-ool) H7586. In verse 7 of Acts 13, we learn a Roman, a European, who was named Sergius Paulis (paul for short) of the Grk origin Q3972. The Roman 'Paul' was with the proconsul, he was learned, and he wanted to learn to the Father (vs7). It is written that Sergius Paulus actually sent for Barnabah and Sh'aul, but a magician named Elumas tried to turn them away so that this European would not learn of the Father... then something strange happens, vs 9 reads, "But Saul, who is also called Paul, being filled with the Spirit, looked at him"...That is how the 1611 kjv reads as well as many translations, but the 'Scriptures' left this part out...We see that Sh'aul and Paul were two different people...but not after Acts 13. Sh'aul (G4549) from this point on is referred to as Paul (G3972). Why would they do this? The true Grk reads "Saulos de o kai Paulus". This translates: "But Saul and Paul"...showing they are two different people. There are absolutely no records of name change or a surname used for Sh'aul. Knowing that Sergius Paulus was truly European and not Yahudy (Israelite), we have to ask ourselves about all of the letters of 'Paul' written to other Europeans. Was this truly Sh'aul? The Grk does not say it was Sh'aul, the Grk says these letters were written by Sergius Paulus. Many of Pauls letters seem like he is double-minded because many of his letters may have been conversations between Sh'aul and Paul; Sh'aul trying to teach this European the ways of the Israelites and Paul offering a different approach to the Father. There are other possible scenarios as well, but to make a long story short, The Messiah is our leader, our Master. If John, Saul, Paul, or anyone says anything about Turah being a curse or we no longer should do certain things, it is of no consequence to us. Messiah said, "If you want to see life, keep the commandments". This is stronger than a Roman who wrote a letter to his people. IMHO he has and still is leading many astray. Shalum
Jesus said to keep HIS commandments. He showed us what God meant. As with the "work" on the Sabbath; the forgiveness of the woman caught in sin about to be stoned; the woman at the well; the parables he spoke; etc.
The Paul in scripture, whosoever he may be, agreed about the meaning of the commands given by Jesus.
The work to discredit his biblical contribution is not the work of the spirit of God.
So you are saying that what this Paul said about circumcision, the law being null and void, you can eat anything, you can eat altar meat is in the spirit of the Aimighty? If so, show me the book,chapter and verse where the Father or the Son said there would be coming a man who had the authority to change the law.
Jesus and our Paul agree. Jesus as the Son made it clear that it is not your intake that defiles your spirit but your output. Uh, check some of the red words. It's there.
One of the things I like about the book of Matthew is that it setes the stage on what the Mashyach was about. Matt.4:4 ..."we live on every word that comes out of the mouth of God" For simplicity I'm going to use the title god and the name jesus while talking to you. Matt.5:17-20..."Whoever therefore breaks on e of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called the least in heaven" (vs19). I guess this is where there seems to be some confusion. One of us is calling jesus a liar. Quite possibly me, because I don't believe in the Christian deity jesus, but that's another story. So you are saying that we can eat anything and jesus and paul confirm this? Well in Rev.2:14 he states that he had something against the assembly of 'believers' at Pergamos: they allowed people to fellowship who had adhered to the doctrine of Balaam who made Yashar'al (Israel) stumble by eating food sacrificed to idols. Rev.2:20 he had the same problem with the assembly of 'believers' at Thyatira. Wow, imagine that. What goes in cannot defile you? It wasn't written in red, but was that your jesus? Naw, maybe his right hand man paul? We are forbidden to consume blood or fat, Gen.9:3,4; Lev.3:17, 7:22-27, 17:10-14, 19:26; Deut.12:16, 23-25. Unclean and clean meats: Lev.11:1-47; Deut.14:1-21; Isa.65:15-17, Isa. 66:15-17. I'm giving you the locations of the verses that may enable you to gain a better understanding of what is being said written in red Be careful how you interpret that verse. It does not mean we can eat anything. It can defile you. So saith the lord?
Jesus made it clear that the consumption of the "unclean" would not defile you. Paul made it clear that if one were offended by the taking in of "unclean" then for HIM it is sin. So if in your example there were those guilty, it was in the forcing of one to eat that which he considered sinful to eat. Jesus and Paul still agree there.
Back again,sbowl over ready to talk. Again using jesus and god to keep it simple. Did jesus recommend the eating of unclean meats? Did He tell His disciples they could eat anything and everything? Yahusha was of the tribe of Judah, and He grew up Hebrew, and hence He would only eat the meat of animals which god had declared clean in His law. For Him to eat the meat of any other animals would have meant that He was breaking Yahuah's law, and to do so meant He would have sinned, becaus sin is lawlessness, and He never sinned. Can we agree on this? As He knew that it was sin to eat unclean meats, He would not have wanted others to sin in that way either. Can we agree here also? The disciples were Hebrews and would not have eaten unclean meat. If they had, the Pharisees would have kicked up quite a racket don't you think. The Pharisees and their comrades followed all kinds of customs that were not Yahuah's law, and washing their hands before a meal was one of them. They asked Him why His taught ones ate with dirty hands. He didn't pull any punches and told them what a bunch of hypocrites they were, and how they followed their own rules rather than Yahuah's commandments. Then He spoke to the crowd that was there, and later to His disciples, and explained that it did not matter what went into your mouth- obviously referring to any dirt on your hands when you don't wash them before a meal, that's what it was all about. Must read things in context. He went on to explain what really makes you dirty, what comes out of your mouth. When you read Mark 7:1-19 in the NIV, you will notice 8 words in brackets at the end of vs19, (In saying this, jesus declared all foods "clean"), trying to tell you jesus said it's ok by Him to eat anything. The first 5 words in brackets, (In saying this, jesus declared) are not in any Grk text of the NT; what may be rendered 'all foods' is there, but instead of 'clean', the Grk has 'purging', all of which means that the translators, rather than doiong what they are expected to do, namely to translate, have put their own interpretative plant on the end of vs19. Hmm, our modern day Paul? We have read prophesy about those eating swine will be cut off in the last day, and in Rev. I showed you Mashyach was still angry about eating food sacrificed to idols. I can give you many more. So what was said in those verses of Mark was not a new teaching that we can eat anything. It's always been about the Most High's law, It still is about His law. If you keep listening to the Roman who was trying to find another way for his countrymen to gain excess to salvation by preaching his own gospel, as Mark would say "We'll save you a seat at the fire". Yahusha tells you there is only one way. Didn't you say this also? You don't believe what you say? Take JMcFarland's advice, read what it says in the Hebrew and Grk, you're coming up short. Shalum
It seems to me that Robertr04, is lovingly attempting to save your soul with the same mindset as you are attempting to do with other people here in these forums. Again, I mean no disrespect.
Jerami. Haven't talked to you or anyone here in awhile. How have you been? Actually I enjoy her posts. Up until recently I was in agreeance with what she said. No qualms with what and how she said it. But she lost me on faith and asked a question about Paul. Just expressing my viewpoint. Geneae is very capable of taking care of herself, I mean no harm. As she calls them as she sees it , so do I. The fire was meant as a joke, but I do believe it is the end result for following the wrong path. Of course everyone thinks their path is the right one, me included. But always open to anything new. BTW, Mark is wrong. Not by the fire, but quickly ashes in it.
Yep, I was just pocking fun, Most folks do seem to think they know everything that is needed. Me included "Sometimes" but then my foolishness most always convinces me otherwise.
edit ...suddenly remembered had fire under a skillet of chicken i was reheating.
Thanks for asking < I'm getting OLDER every day.
I personally don't believe in the fires of Hell. But that is just the way the Holy spirit has lead me to believe.
You mean me Jerami??? I appreciate Robert04's input. And I am glad he joined us...
The saving of my soul is handled.
Thanks for your information, but I am good on that... (that means that I already know the story )
Jesus said, "it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean." I think he also said that everything his father made was good. However, the argument is more restrictive than God intended. Jesus' statement on the matter was blanketed. Not, "eating from unclean dishes will not defile you" Jesus brought freedom from the rules that the Elders stretched. His burden is light.
We haven't the bondage of not enjoying a nice cheeseburger. "it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean it is that that comes out" We can have wine. Drunkenness is sin. Jesus loosed the shackles of the overly stretched law and added a few "laws" of his own.
What does it mean to love? I think someone missed that question long ago.
Paul you must remember was confronted by Jesus on the Damascus road..he was accepted by the disciples and his work of bringing the gospel to the gentiles was immense. He isn't liked by liberal Christians because of his stand on immorality like homosexuality which in todays secular and atheistic
world is anathema to them
It is my belief that over time the radical muslims, like al Queada, will be removed by mainstream Islam as the people become more civilized and less willing to be controlled and hurt by those doing it in God's name.
The same is true of Christianity. The civilized world's moral structure has advanced beyond that of the radical Christians; they will either catch up or cease to exist.The immorality of things like the bigotry against gays will not be tolerated forever.
There is nothing new in this; Christian morality has always revolved around control, not right and wrong, and it typically lags that of the general population in improving.
Yeah atheists have been saying this for over 2000 years poor old Nero couldn't eradicate it but I guess youll keep on trying
Couldn't really say - I've only been around for a half century+ and not paying attention to world affairs for even that much.
I don't think Islamic terrorism was this bad in the past though, and I don't think the man-in-the-street Muslim was this fed up with it either.
As far as the Christians - they won't be eradicated of course, just forced to become a little more civilized, just as they have repeatedly been forced to do in the past. With the end result that the radical Christian, in the matters of concern today, will die out just has they have in the past, with other matters where the Christian morality was left behind by civilized society.
What is in decline is atheism now you could end up being part of a rump
ive tried atheism its a path with no hope walking the Christian path isnt a crutch as some atheists say it is...in a country that is becoming more atheistic its a difficult one but I wouldnt change it for the world
There's no hope? Hope of what? You mean hope of being safe from the cruel realities of death and the ugliness of man? If I've accepted this reality, then there is no need for such hopes. All I can do is live my life and help people however I can. If that's all you need, then there's always "hope."
I thought that you JUST said a couple pages ago that atheism was on the decline. Now you're saying that the country is more atheistic. Can you pick a position and stick with it please?
Furthermore, I'm an atheist who was a former christian baptist missionary, and I have more hope now than I ever did as a believer. If you think atheism has no hope, you were unlike any atheist I have ever met in my entire life.
JM because certain countries like mine are becoming more atheistic or secular doesnt take into account world trends..China is increasingly becoming less atheistic so is Africa India etc on a world scale atheism is declining...atheists have hope in this life thats true but the next no Christians have both...So one time you believed Jesus was Lord that He died on the cross and was raised from the dead now you dont..Im afraid Jesus was never truly in your heart but in your head
You, a complete stranger, are in no position to judge what was in my heart - or any of the other countless atheists that were once Christians, Missionaries and pastors.
The bible judges. It says what he said. The bible knows, while we cannot. The proof is in the verbal communications (tree...fruit...power of the tongue...give an account for what we say)
No one can pluck the Lord's children from his hand.
I understand what you think and believe about me, but you cannot judge my heart as a believer or now as an atheist either unless you're claiming to be god, so kindly refrain from doing so and we can go back to ignoring each other while you get your jollies from judging someone else -perhaps yourself, since you are supposed to remove the log from your eye prior to worrying about the speck in someone else's
All that I think of you is what you have/haven't said. I do not have an inside track. I have no judgment for you or anyone else. We know what the word says; you and me both. It judges. I didn't write it; I just recite it. you will always be cool with me. No one here has the power to force anger. It just AINT that serious.
When I am judged by you and the others, I am able to know the place from whence it originates. I am not offended by it. I have an assurance that I cannot receive from man and it tells me that as long as the bible is my conversation, I cannot err. That is why the "hose" is turned on me so often... If we can get this conversation shifted to genaea; we will have her right where... but I'm not important. My words are insufficient. God's words are what matters.
Now I know you have a problem with that. But that's not my problem. I do love you still. I must.
Sorry but the bible is a book and can judge nothing. Those who interpret to their liking do.
Dr Lamb, the bible tells us that it judges. Don't go getting all upset. Those who interpret to their liking will have a problem. Truth is essential.
Stop projecting. You have no idea whether or not anyone is upset except you, And you know nothing about what does or doesn't bother me. I'd prefer if you treat me like I don't exist, because if this kind of behavior and projection is an indicator of love for you, I want no part of it.
You can say is about God and the Bible all you want, but we all see how antsy you get when no one responds to you for awhile, and your projections on other people's thoughts or feelings. Even your user name, as innocuous as your first name and last initial is telling. C Genaea. See Genaea. Nothing about god in there. Freudian slip much?
I remember reading where Paul said he was confronted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. I don't recall reading anything in the Gospels where Matthew, Mark,Luke or John mentioned this man named Paul. Maybe there is? If any of the apostles wrote about Paul I would really appreciate it if someone would tell me where it is at. I know that in the books which Paul wrote, he was highly praised.
It's not in the Gospels, but it's found in Acts 8;1 "Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him (Stephen)to death...."
It is before his conversion, before he was renamed Paul.
Thank you aka-dj,
and to Tributeman, and Cgenaea. I do believe in the Creator and that Jesus was the Messiah spoken of in the OT. .. but .. I happen to be a preterits/historicist. I read the same bible as you do. The only difference (?) is concerning prophesy. It is written .. the prophesy was given to prove scripture. If the book of Daniel was inspired of God and not Satan (?) how we understand the N.T. SHOULD conform with this information which was given 568 years before Christ was killed. Instead, we misinterpret Daniel based upon our understanding of Paul's message.
Daniel 9:1 identifies the year Daniel receives this message (538 B.C.
9:3 He began making prayer and supplications...
9:23 at the beginning of thy supplications "The Commandment Came Forth"
9:25 from the going forth of the commandment unto Messiah the Prince (commonly interpreted a the Second Coming), shall be 69 weeks, (BUT) after 62 weeks the Messiah shall be cut off (killed).
What this means is 62 weeks in prophesy is equal to approx 568 years.
IMO misinterpretation of Daniel 9. has created all of the misconceptions in religion which we hold so dear.
Jerami..what links true Christians is the Holy Spirit and I feel that link with you even though we disagree on certain scriptural passages..Im not that up on prophesies but the main thing is accepting Jesus as our Saviour
I think prophesy is impossible to understand through the futurist's eyes.
But when we honestly consider the possibility that prophesy has been in the process of being fulfilled from the time they were first given we then see them in a different light. And also, the scriptures take on a different meaning. I believe that we are all ( Caucasian African, Asian etc (all) ) connected through the Holy Spirit, whether we recognize this connection or not. Sometimes we can feel it with some people and sometimes as hard as we try to, we can't with some people. i think Jesus felt it with all people, but as he said (in scripture) "I have come but for the lost sheep of Israel" He came just to fulfill all of the prophesy (promises) which God had given to the Nation of Israel.
Now, when the Hebrew people rejected him as their Messiah, the gift was extended to all of humanity. This does not change the fact that all of OT prophesy was exclusively given to the Hebrews of that time. Ninety nine % of OT prophesy was fulfilled before the Nation of Israel was scattered to the four winds (Daniel 12:7)
It shall be a time times and half a time when the Hebrews shall begin regathering in Israel.
Revelation is a different story all together. The first four seals were opened the day Jesus died on the Cross. The seventh seal was opened in 138 AD, when the 14th Emperor of the fourth kingdom came to his end (Daniel 11:45). The trumpet judgments were sounded between 538 AD and 900 AD.
The first bowl was poured out in 1238 AD (Black Plague) the Sixth bowl poured out with WWI.
Up until the latter 19th century the futurist point of view was the minority. But the table has turned. Preterits and Historists mostly keep our mouths shut.
I may be wrong about all of this (?) but if I am right (?) it would certainly explain the divisions in Gods church. If I'm right the bad news is that the 2nd coming has already happened. The good news is that The Great Tribulation has already happened and when we die, we go straight to heaven because the first resurrection also has already passed.
Seems to me that this message contains more good news than bad.
If it is true. a lot of questions would become non existent.
Sounds like a great opportunity for those who don't like the narrow path. problem nearly solved.
No disrespect intended ... All I'm saying is ... I think Jesus was speaking to believers when he was talking about the narrow path.
So, ... was He was saying that the majority of believers were not on the narrow path.
If our way of thinking is similar to all of the other believers ? we may not be on as narrow of a path as we think we are..
Mostly everything Jesus said was to believers. His opposers were priests and respected church officials. He told the people "if your faith aint better than theirs, you aint gettn in either" or something like that.
Faithful followers do the word. As Jesus did. When they fail, they are upheld by the truth that they know. And freed from the bondage of sin. And THAT is an entire "sermon" alone.
Dont agree with the "second coming has already happened f Billy Graham is still here then it hasnt....I know a lot of Christians believe n the Rapture I havent studied it that much but I know I should...what puts me off is the "secrecy" part remember Jesus said if they talk about the secret chambers dont believe it Every eye shall see His return like the lightening coming from the East to the West
I suppose that if My theory is correct (?) there would be no reason for me to debate the issue. Cause it doesn't really matter. the end result is the same. And if I'm wrong (?) it makes little difference because as some say, once saved always saved, cause Jesus died for your sins when you believe in him. this sems to me to be a Broaaaad path.
As I understand what is written, regardless of when it happens, It is written that, 144000 Hebrews will be caught up in the air (rapture), 12000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel (the man) and after some period of time passes, a great multitude of people from all tribes and nations will be resurrected. And from this day forward (Rev. 14:13) that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them. From that day forward, when we die (being saved) we go straight to heaven. According to scripture this period of time lasts for 1000 years and a "Little Season). Then and only then the seventh bowl is poured out then the the second Resurrection happens. In the end ... the same thing happens to those who were in the 2nd resurrection as for those in the 1st. For all practical purposes ... these people won't be able to tell the difference.
This is what I read when I read scriptures. It seems as tho everyone reads something different. I guess that's OK.
I believe the above comment is especially true when we consider the probability of inaccurate translations of older writings not to mention the effects that interpretation of those written text had upon how they were translated.
I believe that if there is a devil, he would have ben doing all that he could in influencing the interpretation of these old text then influencing how they were translated.
In conclusion I must agree with you in reading the words written in RED. I think Jesus was attempting to simplify everything which came before. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Judge not that ye not be judged. Have faith in these things as a little child. BUT for the last 1600 years we have been justifying to ourselves when and how we ca make exception with His teachings. So, in the end, I don't really know what to think? Just be honest with myself about myself, ... I can't even do that properly. Until I can, I shouldn't attempt to fix anybody else. Cause .... I keep making a mess out of it when I do.
Honesty about self to self is generally the thing that brings one to God correctly. The bible says that we must serve in spirit and truth. The truth about ourselves can be startling. But it takes that "death" to be able to form the ear to hear. When your spirit loudly listens to the self, the messages of God are crowded out. Spirit and flesh consistently struggle.
The messages of Jesus are plentiful. Love one as you love yourself....
Would you want to be lied to? Would you want to be fooled? Would you NOT want someone to show you the way if you were lost? Me neither. I'm going from the bible. The only truth I know.
If I step out of line, I trust that the spirit will guide me back in. The scriptures require a renewed mind. The mind of Christ. I cannot speak for Muslims or anyone else; they have the mind of their prophet.
Don't get me wrong; I am a theist!
i read the article, and only one question comes to mind.
The article states that no significant errors were made back to the original writings; What date can can be attributed to these original writings? The oldest Ink to parchment.
A person can believe a creator did appear to Abraham and question religion and the written words in a book which after all, was established by the Roman Empire, which was the fourth beast as described in the book of Daniel. ??? The fourth beast is the fourth kingdom, it will have 10 kings and then another king will rise to power replacing three after the the first ten. The 14th emperor was in power when the Hebrew Nation was scattered through out the Roman Empire. Scattered to the four corners of the earth. The word earth was translated from Hebrew word not meaning the four corners of the "planet".
...with all thy heart, thy soul, and thy mind...
The followers of God are not looking under his skirt.
If an entity appeared in front of you, and announced he was the god of Abraham, the God which you have proclaimed your loyalty, would you believe it?
The New Testament is the most accurate of ancient texts
You say you are a Theist then say " if there is a devil" now unless Jesus was a liar or having hallucinations Satan is very real and Jesus was tempted by him....the Pharisees accused Jesus of doing his work have no doubt he exists and his evil hand is all around the world and will get worse
Would you want to be fooled? Would you NOT want someone to show you the way if you were lost? Me neither. I'm going from the bible.
We can love someone and not appreciate spending time with them. When someone does me wrong, I don't have to like it!
If a loved one hits me on the toes with a hammer every time they see me, I'll keep my feet under the table every time I see them coming. I don't have to judge them (They are evil) They probably think hey have a good excuse for hitting me on the toe with a hammer. They think I deserve it! They may even think they are doing it with love?? Point is we ALL have our own excuses for doing the things we do.
Do I have the right to go to that persons house to tell them to quit hitting my toes with a hammer? Or should I wait till they come to my house, hammer in hand? And what constitutes my house
Now is a good time to practice the preach. ... What constitutes a hit with a hammer? The truth? Or a pretty lie?
What constitutes one's home-base? Who came to whom in our scenario? Am I offended? No. I hope that you are not.
I am not following you correctly if encouragement is your goal. but it is obvious that you do know what truth is. Are you willing to say???
OOPS been house cleaning instead of sitting in front of computer ... I Got ADD I guess.
In my story... the hammer represents any wrong behavior of another as perceived by me. And my home represents my immediate environment. And I was attempting encouragement. The only understanding of what truth is as that which pertains to me. And I have little understanding of that.
The bible can help one to have a clear picture of the total self. That is why people treat it the way they do. Some don't like their truth enough to hide from it. They write in a prettier picture in favor of self. What people fail to see is that truth really doesn't hurt that much if you give in to it. Truth positively changes us.
Truth is relative to the person in some sense. But there are fundamentals. "There is one way," is just one of them.
Jesus stood firm on many things. He expects the same of us.
I think it is that and much more. I may be as crazy as a loon, but I think there is a puzzle in it.? Most people read it and think they have found "the" answer. If we search further we discover that we didn't. We read something that at first glance seems to contradict the conclusions we have arrived at. Further contemplation reveals that our understanding was wrongfully influenced by misinterpretations which we hold onto lying at the foundation of whatever belief system we think we have. Many of these verses simply are not saying what we thought they did. When we finish this journey for the whole truth, we find ourselves back where we started.
Now, all of this is and the following is just my opinion.
Love our neighbor as ourselves (cause we are all interconnected).
Love the Lord our God with all our heart (cause we are interconnected).
In the end, To deny the relativity of all things is denying the fullness of ourselves. (or something like that?)
If we were interconnected, we would have the same thoughts. We would serve the same God. And we would be judged together.
We are created with no strings. Only a word.
We each have a responsibility toward that word given. We may take whatever route we fancy. But one road leads to life eternally. If you believe as I do...
God is not concerned with the rules that we came up with to show our solidarity to what we consider our greater good. He allows us to know that we cannot get it right without his thoughts in mind. We don't know enough to make our own rules. Ask Eve.
@ Dave36 .... Don't know if I agree with all of those "words" which are written above, Maybe I do and maybe I don't ??
I will say I understand what you are getin-at.
I look at it kinda like .... each and every one of us are mini-universes in and of ourselves. Seven billion mini-universes right here on earth.
We are'n even fully aware of our skin, we actually know even less about the infinite number things which are happening inside of our skin. There are an infinite number of things happening on the outside of our skins that we know little about.
In a manner of speaking, ... our consciousness understands as much about our own mini-universe as our skin does about its place in its own reality. Our skin is fully aware of everything that it needs to know, I think it does, Maybe?
I've always enjoyed the simple wisdom in your words Jerami.
thank you for the putting a smile on my face first thing this AM.
i enjoy your depth of thinking a bunch.
I think its a marvelous reason for why we need to look outside of self for the truth. There are an infinite amount of possibilities on the inside. We do not understand the repercussions of many of those inside thoughts. Ask Eve.
Our skin responds. If we eat bad, it shows. If we touch something bad, it shows. If we are not bathers, it smells
No lotions? It flakes. I once went through a 13+ year period where my palms and soles would break out in these horrible blisters. It went from a break out of one or two to a break out of hundreds. Pus and blood and itch beyond belief and cracking and lesions. And gloves and socks. No doctor could help. One day, after a series of events, I realized during constant prayer that my problem was the consumption of wheat. For many years I cried and was embarrassed and thought I would die with an unknown flesh-eating disease that no one knew about. The doctors gave me steroid creams and pills. God gave me the solution.
Which is it then, outside or inside? It was your brain that gave you the idea that wheat was the problem.
No way!!! it was my brain that sent me running to doctors who study this stuff; took a few looks and samples; and wrote prescriptions for potentially harmful materials that did NO good.
When I relaxed and allowed myself a talk with outside forces that live in me (because I asked and accepted) I received the answer. Fast... a biblical admonition. Within days my hands and feet got better. Soon; Bingo!!!
The Lord knew all along. My process was good for me. He knew that too. No more green, brown, red, AND yellow pustules that crack and itch to infirmity. And I KNOW who to attribute that to. Not me...
So you can ask God any question and receive the answer?
No. Some secrets he tells no one. Some things you are not prepared to know. Some desires are trivial; unnecessary; and/or bad for you and or others nearby. We ask, wait, and trust unconditionally. God is not put in place for us; we are put in place for him. We must be followers of him. He MADE the "big picture".
He told us to ask, but not to ask amiss. Oh! And our answer should not be prearranged by us. He very often beats around the bush. Lol
See what happens when people make claims that God helps them out. They can never back it up because they can't get any information that there brain doesn't already have.
Did you hear me say that even doctors (3 of them) who studied skin and made their life's work, healing were baffled???
Not one of them said, "it may be something you're eating..." My own brain looked to them; at one time waiting 3 months for an appointment. I had no clue. But I thought it was serious and that my hands and feet would rot away.
My God is responsible for my healing. You can give me the credit all you want. But I know. It is backed up by experience.
I listened to the spirit of God; and was healed.
You can tell me all about it if you like, but you'll have to prove it. Anyone can make miraculous claims and lie for Jesus. It's just never been proven. You've stated God gave you the information you needed when you asked. Prove it.
The Lord healed me of my TMJ. It's a shame you fell away from the faith, Dr. Lamb. I shall pray for you to return.
There's the catch. What happened with my own situation is proof enough of God for me. And it is the same with others. I have no ability to prove it to you. You must take it; or leave it. You must find your own proof.
Now even as a Christian I would have been suspicious of people claiming that God spoke to them until it actually happened to me..it wasnt an audible voice but a silent one inside my head..The reason for this is to long to post up here but it was so remarkable it really confirmed to me that God exists.
Sorry, we all hear our own thoughts in our minds.
Yes, we know. However, the person who is spiritually inclined also hears the spirit of God. It is amazing to hear a calming voice on the inside that you know did not come from you.
When you hear it, is it in a manly voice, or in your minds typical voice?
Good question! You got me stumped!
Not sure. But I really believe the voice is male. Now that may be because I know it is not my voice and I feel that God is male. So dont quote me...
Or you think it's a male because you have been told God is a male.
I have to say hearing voices other than your own thoughts is a serious sign of a serious problem.
Does the voice give you information you can not obtain on your own? Can you ask it for things and get them? You can ask your own mind for things and then simply go get them, but can the voice give you information you can't get on your own. If not then your mind is playing tricks on itself.
Well, some people accept my wheat story as information I didn't know (neither did doctors) that God gave to me. But for some strange reason, some people think I came up with ny cure by myself. Go figure...
You'd be surprised by how much any person could learn about themselves and their body's issues and external issues by just quieting the mind. No God needed. Just an ever increasing awareness of the body and unconscious info stored in the mind/brain.
You can reach Nirvana, brother. Have out of body experiences. Reach states of mind of just knowing and utter bliss. Just with the mind and some good meditation/self hypnosis techniques.
One of the reasons I am an atheist is because I did all those things when I was younger, looking for spiritual answers. I was able to do anything the Gurus tell you you can do.
But one day it dawned on me that the state of just knowing doesn't give you any more info then you had when you went in to the state; and that all of it is manipulation of the brain, not opening up to anther dimension of life, other than your subconscious..
Nothing wrong with that, and lots of fun. But not what I expected. That said, once you know it is the subconscious, you can actually start learning something about it, and yourself.
Sounds like in-doc-trination... the worldly kind.
The prince of the air is using the self-sufficiency of the mind to distract.
We know not what will occur the very next second. We cannot prepare for the enormous selection of difficulty that may come our way. We are fragile. We are ever vulnerable. We aren't smart. We just THINK we are...
I will ecstatically take my "chances" with the father of lights. That way, whatever happens, I'm covered; safely.
And if your god is the prince of lies instead of Satan? If all you believe about the supernatural is a lie, carefully crafted by your go to fill his personal hell with willing victims? If Satan was the actual creator and the one who loves us all?
Are you still "covered" then? Or will you wish you had you used the brain Satan gave you (but you so disdain) to discern what was truth and what was lie?
LoL, yeah, I'm the indoctrinated one. Wow, your God certainly allows a lot of mechanisms for his so-called beloved Creation to be tricked.
You seem to be implying everyone that's not a Christian cuz the little devil is more powerful at influencing than God is apparently...
And what was your implication; and the cause of it?
I'm sorry, not sure I understand your question.
No, you just speak in fragments. I'm "implying" that your experiences do not differ from other humans, and that there's no need for a devil to be behind people who have similar experiences, and there's no need for there to be a god behind yours. The common denominator is people and brain activity. We see no reason to jump to conclusions beyond what we can see and develop tools to see. Scientists have imagination certainly, but they have to test their hypotheses following the scientific method, and when they have results, other people have to be able to follow the same steps and turn up the same results and everyone can physically hold and read those results, and follow the steps themselves, etc, etc. No need to take your word for it or trust your subjective/anecdotal "evidence."
The Lord has secrets known to no man. For sure we cannot test for every possible clue into the mind. And we have NO idea if what we've come up with already is solidified. People using the same testing methods to test the same things should have similar results. But if all original materials and findings are off just a little... it ALL becomes unreliable.
I'm grateful to know that I can trust God to know without error.
?? You're saying didn't know that eating certain things would mess up your body? Or that you didn't know what ALL those "certain things" were? The concern over gluten didn't influence your subconscious to poke out that possibility when you heard the word somewhere but glossed over it?
Are you certain of that, or do you mostly just like the idea that god put that specific thought into your brain whether he actually did or not?
Well, I never on my own would have pieced my eating habits and my horrible recurrent and fierce hand foot condition together. I had never seen or heard of anything as such. It was amazing to me once I realized I had the ruby slippers on my feet all 13 agonizingly embarrassing years. I had meditated many times in the interim.
I think that in 13 years I would have eliminated all foods from my diet at one time or another, one or two at a time. When they took her gall bladder out we've had to go through that with my wife as some foods will produce negative effects now but no one can predict which foods. Not even god, apparently, as he has never been of any help.
Perhaps it's the difference between an atheist and a believer, praying for someone else to solve even relatively simple problems? Or, just maybe, a chance reference to gluten produced the answer even though it was ignored at the time. The mind is a very potent instrument if we but allow it to act.
But you do not know it didn't come from you. That's the point. You often hear writers say that the characters and the words just seem to write themselves, as if they are coming from the characters themselves or from elsewhere besides the writer. I've felt that myself. Same with music. Improvisation done by someone who knows the instrument does not require conscious thought and comes from within, from the subconscious.
So it is not unusual that some one who believes in a god as much as you do and relies on it as you do, should have a subconscious that makes it come true for you. That's what your brain does. Think of the dialogue that goes on without your conscious participation when you dream. I meet people in my dreams all the time and carry on two sided conversations, and feel like I know these people as friends.
But when I wake up, I know I don't actually know any of them. They live only in the dream state, in my subconscious. And yes, I'm an atheist, but I have talked to god on several occasions and felt a voice, and to Jesus once. It was as true to life as a person standing next to me. But I know what it was and what caused it, and I can make it happen again. The brain is an amazing thing to play with,
You better be careful playing with your brain...
The things of God are not for playtime. That is why it is such a hard thing to grasp. Our brains can get tricky. Our filter is guided by spirit. Good or bad. Our mind is spiritual. Our brain is physical. Have you ever seen an image of the mind? It is spoken, it is acted out. Not seen.
We are on two different wavelengths (ha! Scientific term) here. Lol
Now what shall we do? I'm stuck. But I am prepared for any direction.
Nothing I can do to harm it anymore. I've done it all and come through all the wiser for it. If anyone would have found a spirit it would have been me. But most people don't go all the way to the end to find out what they were looking for probably isn't there.
“If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place.”
―U. G. Krishnamurti
No truer words.
Sounds like what's-his-name up on the mountain with Jesus.
No!!! In the garden with Eve...
Nah. Just some guy who experienced what I did when searching for god and our soul. We found out it isn't there.
Like Ive said its my experience no-one else's...ive walked the atheist path and now the Christian path NO CONTEST
I've walked the Christian path and now the Atheist path. No contest.
So have I. Former Christian, now happy, well-adjusted atheist. No contest.
Might have "walked" it but according to Jesus doesn't mean you were a Christian
There is a difference Read the parable of the sower...Also Jesus said to those who accepted Him as their Saviour..you are in my hand I am in my Fathers hand NO -ONE can snatch them out of my Fathers hand...Revelation..then spme will say to me "JESUS " lord lord havent i done this for you even cast out demons in your name He will say get the away I NEVER KNEW YOU.unless you claim Jesus to be a liar He is saying some might even say to Him at the judgement that at one time they followed Him He says HE NEVER KNEW THEM. Also the parable of the wheat and the tares they represented those who appeared to be Christian but as they grew up in the church like the wheat with tares they weren't true believers .Finally to accept at one time Jesus as your Saviour including His death and resurrection and now say I no longer believe it to be true proves you were an interloper not truly born again.An atheist who converted to Christianity eg.CS Lewis would have stated he didnt at one time believe God or gods existed l
Doesnt work for Christianity Im afraid...the words Ive posted up is the truth otherwise why are you concerned as you are now an atheist NOT a backslidden Christian...no backslidden Christian ive ever met and I was one of them once has EVER rejected Christ in their heart..they have felt ashamed of their fall but their love for Jesus was always there....do you feel like that now?
Saying you understand a person's experience better than they understand it themself is breathtakingly presumptuous.
Oh good! I've waited and waited for someone with truth of religious affairs.
Having truth, you will be happy to provide proof that it is true, yes? Maybe starting at the core with incontrovertible proof of God's existence? You know, with repeatable tests, peer reviews, objective observations, etc.?
Nothing to do with knowing a persons experience this is the truth of scripture...according to the words Ive posted
You disputed that person's truth on the basis of your assumptions and narrow experience.
I suggest you develop a little humility and stop doing that.
Also maybe write a hub. That being what this site is for.
It is not our job to provide God doesn't exist, it is your job to accept people have the right to believe what sincerely feels true to them.
Wilderness please read and learn
Lots of reasons it might be nice, though I disagree with some of them.
Lots of faulty logic
Lots of false statements
Not a single test. Not a single observation of Him. Not a single "illegal" event, violating natural laws, that would have to be attributed to Him. No peer reviews, showing the statements/conclusions could not be refuted. Nothing but opinion.
Another monumental fail, I fear. The authors seem to think that the old, old "goddunnit" is somehow proof He exists.
From a former atheist
@wilderness explain if you can the Universe coming from nothing also evidence that life came from non life finally give me evidence that God doesnt exist
@spsycheskinner wrong again its the words of scripture that disputes her true conversion if you have a problem with that so be it...humility i doubt any atheist is looking for that from a Christian
and by the way I didnt realise you are the administrator on this site I will post as I please...take a look at the barbed and personal attacks against Christians on here that should concern you if you are such a fair minded person....anyway im off to bed its late here in the UK nite nite
Lol what are you talking about...she is an atheist unless you havent grasped JM no longer has any Christian beliefs
@wilderness lol so Craig who has debated this with your top atheists and defeated them hasnt convinced you how am I not surprised about that
Are you saying that there is another organ inside our head, one to detect silent voices originating in the brain? And that organ confirms God's existence?
No. What he is saying is that there is an ear inside your heart that is sensitive to the prompting of the holy spirit if the brain would shut-up long enough...
Ah, well that clears it up then, some people have an ear inside there hearts.
Yep!!! now ya know...
Btw. The Lord is giving away those ears free of charge down by the riverside. Lol!!! Or wherever you are, he will deliver.
I wonder if the death hear those voices? Can a person who has never heard language hear voices?
There lies the problem of duality. It's all happening in your brain. Your heart literally only pumps blood. Your "proverbial heart" exists in the brain. People that aren't Christians can quiet their minds and also find peace and know what they need to do in a situation. It certainly doesn't make the case for god. Mindfulness meditation does the same. And people who practice mindfulness meditation fairly consistently I find have a much more pleasant disposition than most Christians I've seen/come across/interacted with.
No, YORE heart only literally pumps blood... my heart is figurative for spirit. It's a spiritual thing. THAT is why you miss me. We just speak a different language.
Now, would you like for me to explain the difference once again between your heart and my heart???
Nope, because any heart you refer to is metaphorical in context and exists in your mind, which is located in your brain. You can call it spiritual if you want to, but our hearts are anatomically the same more or less and located in the same place, cuz even though you seem to think you're special, you're still human.
Well, you have spoken what is your truth. I heard you...
That's not my personal truth, that's an observable truth. MRI's are wonderful.
The MRI may only scan what it is able to see. I thought everyone knew that...
Your brain activity is quite observable when you're having your "spiritual" experiences.
Rather people having spiritual experiences (yes including christians) have had their brains hooked up and it shows.... drum roll please... brain activity... There's no good/logical reason to think it's happening anywhere else aside from the brain.
Further, it shows the same brain activity and pattern.
Do you have brain activities on your MRI when you fellowship with your friends? Or have a talk with your father? Do you have brain activities in your dreams? Some spiritual experiences are like a dream state.
Probably more of a rhetorical question.
Um, how much do you actually know about the brain? Because these questions are quite easy to answer... I personally haven't, but you can participate in a study if you want the answer to that. And there are plenty of people who already have. Your brain has the same beta activity that it has when you're awake while you're sleeping when you're in the REM stage (which is the stage you're in while dreaming).
So it won't be able to see that ear in your heart?
And there I thought those flappy things were called "valves" and helped control the flow of blood through the heart!
Ya learn something every day, I guess. As long as you don't care if it's true or not, anyway...
Pfft, anatomy is the tool of the second cousin of the arch-duke of semi-deceptive-untruths. The mistress of the Maharajah of Drafty Windows uses it to press her slight distortions of reality upon those without the gauzy ghost of knowing that resides inside a true believer's ureter.
Like Ive said what happened to me is to long to post up but I can tell you what I was told to do was remarkable and as a Christian Im certain God spoke to me that day..of course atheists and even some Christians ( I was one of them)look to other explanations for it .
Those of us who trust him receive many words of confirmation and acts of proof. Amazing, right?
So, you stopped taking the meds prescribed to you and afterwards heard voices.
Sounds like God alright.
If we were interconnected, we would have the same thoughts. We would serve the same God. And we would be judged together. smile
We are created with no strings. Only a word.
We are all inner connected in ways we can't see; as is every apple on the apple tree, and yet every apple are individual in itself. Even after is it is taken from the tree. There is a connection between us and our grandparents one which we can almost see but not quite. There is a galaxy 100 light years away which we are in a sense connected to. It that galaxy didn't exist, our galaxy would be in a different position in the universe. As Einstein said , everything is relative. (in ways we are and always will be unaware).
So, in my opinion ... like it or not, we are all interconnected. personally, I like it like that.
Interconnection is a tricky term. We all have blood, brains, flesh; but it ends there. We are independent but SHOULD be interdependent. God is working that out.
Interconnection breeds common ground. But as you know, we have no common threads. We all think differently. We each arrive at our conclusions differently. Our experience largely dictate the way we put our thoughts together. But the mind of God is a potential common thread for whosoever will.
"I come so they may have life, and that more abundantly."
"My yoke is easy, my burden light."
"Not one jot nor tittle shall pass from the law (listen closely) until all be fulfilled."
"Keep MY commands" emphasis mine
"You can't stone her, you aint right!"
Jesus gave them the right mind concerning the law. He told them how to believe about the laws.
"Why you washing the outside of the glass for? Your inside (out of the abundance of the heart; the mouth speaks) is filthy!" "It's not your intake that's messing you up; it's your output!".
Paul knew what that MEANT. That's why he made the cut. The bible is protected by the one who wrote it...
@wilderness so Craig who has debated your top atheists on this and defeated their arguments hasnt convinced you now why am I not surprised about that
Convinced us of what? I think it would be crazy to think forums can do anything more than help people understand an accept each other a bit better. I know that is my goal.
??!! All I asked for was one bit of solid evidence. Not faulty logic. Not false facts. Not opinions.
Just one observational, repeatable, testable fact. It's called evidence in the world of science.
Do you believe life came from non life if you do give me the evidence do you believe the Universe came from nothing give me the evidence give me the proof...if as an atheist you say God doesnt exist give me the evidence give my the proof
I believe in God, but I have never seen a single shred of evidence that he exists.
Believe me, I've looked. And will keep looking.
Perhaps you should read about Jesus He claimed to be God
http://www.newmediaministries.org/Scien … ved_S.html
Im a Brit its late and im definitely off to bed nite
http://www.newmediaministries.org/Scien … ved_S.html
Im of to bed its late here in the UK nite
Probably too late (been to dinner) but g'night. Sleep well.
Its now 8am here in the UK hope you enjoyed your dinner...i look at things like this...you and i have free will i have chosen Jesus you have not...we just have a short span of conscious time between two points birth and death...what we choose and how we live will in the end be for all eternity.. So if you are right its eternal blackness if Im right eternal judgement.God I know would want you and other atheists to avoid both so do I.
You want us to wager that God exists? You want us to live a life of delusion and lies in a hopes God won't be able to see through our own lies? What if I asked you to believe in Peter Pan just in case he's real?
Further, you better hope that if the off change God does exist you've got the correct version of God. You've got one change in over 4000, so good luck
Way off beam mate plenty of superb apologists out there making the case that Jesus is who He said He was...even convinced the one time atheist CS Lewis who you have to admit intellectually is slightly ahead of you and Wilderness...also if you want me to put a list up of highly intelligent people who believe in God I will...plus the new Pew research now puts Christian believers worldwide at 2 billion you atheists have quite a way to go to catch up in fact worldwide you might be in decline
Its nothing to do with Pascals Wager that isnt possible..unless you are convicted by the Holy Spirit belief in God isnt possible...if its delusion you are talking about then atheism is definitely the way to go...you believe the Universe came from nothing yet it all points to being designed.
Sorry, but according to science, there is no indication whatsoever the universe was designed, quite the contrary. Science shows the universe in it's current state came about as a result of the physical laws with no design being incorporated at all.
A designed universe is only an extension of Genesis and creationism, which is the real delusion.
Lol another atheist who talks but doesn't give any evidence for why you think the Universe was uncaused give me your evidence
The evidence is in natural laws. You are free to educate yourself in that regard.
So natural laws created the Universe ok educate me!
Sorry, but where do you get the idea we are supposed to educate you? That is your responsibility, not ours. If you're incapable of preparing yourself for discussions on the subject matter, that is no ones problem but your own.
It should be, I do all my own research, I don't ask others to spoon feed me.
I doubt that. Are you out performing experiments ever workday? Doing your own, original research? What research is that?
What I suspect you do is read magazines, books, and perhaps even scientific journals. And then agree with what you believe is to be true.
LOL. Sorry, that's not how it works. You're referring to belief systems, not education.
I'm "referring to" and responding to exactly what YOU said.
You claimed to do all your own research.
It's a simple question.
Yes, research in that I increase my knowledge base.
Sorry, but I'm not at liberty to discuss that.
So, is there some point to your line of questioning?
Yes. I was attempting to determine if you really do your own research.
As opposed to simply reading other people's work, and making your own interpretation. Which I see nothing wrong with.
But there is a big difference between the two.
I just wanted you to back up your claim. But you are not at liberty to discuss it.
Making my own interpretation? Why would anyone do that?
Do you believe everything you read? Do you think human beings are infallible and can't make incorrect interpretations of facts?
No, I don't believe I read. Do you?
Human beings are fallible. How do you incorrectly interpret a fact? Do you have an example of that?
I do not believe everything I read.
Example of an incorrectly interpreted fact:
Fact: People get different types of illnesses.
Incorrectly interpreted fact: Different illnesses must be the result of evil spirits.
Every single Confederate soldier that faced the Union Armies died. Fact, that is.
You said natural laws made the Universe Im asking you to show me how this remarkable thing happened....ive given you many links to why I believe a mind created it you believe something abstract created it now show me your evidence
atheists do this all the time..they question those who believe the Universe was created yet back away when asked for evidence of an uncaused Universe...IM STILL WAITING
That was humorous. The thing is without God you can't make any sense of the world, but guess what? I can, and to me the universe makes far more sense without any God.
Im still waiting for this The Universe makes more sense without God show me the evidence Ive linked you to quite a few especially the foremost apologist Dr Craig who has been wiping the floor with your top atheists on this but I guess you still have to back your men/women even when they get stumped
That's really funny, but I'm tight for time right now and don't have the time to educate you.
Craig does not endorse intelligent design/creationism and actually endorses evolution. Does that mean he disagrees with you?
Oh yes show me the proof that he doesn't believe God created the Universe? Also he isnt a Darwinian materialist you should do more research
No, you have chosen a story written thousands of years ago about an ET from another universe that made this one.
And if you're right, AND if the story tellers got it right, AND you chose the right story out of thousands AND if the ET didn't lie AND if you scrupulously followed directions all your life, you will be rewarded with the worst possible torment - eternal life.
It's funny how eternal life sounds like a great idea as a kid, but when you are an adult you realize how receptive and boring it could become especially with eyes to see and ears to hear and mouths to communicate with.
Im afraid I have to move on...ive debated my points with the atheists here and hope one day you will be convinced that only Jesus is the answer He is for me a one time atheist....I will now listen to Jesus words in Matt 10: 14
And whoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Its funny as soon as you become a Christian eternal life is an incredible thought in fact all the other Christians Ive met feel the same way it appears only atheists look on it as a boring outcome
Wilderness Ive given you excellent links that you've rejected but noticed you didn't critique their points....you've never answered my points about the Universe coming from nothing and how life came from non life show me the evidence!
Speak later ive got a small recording studio cant spend all of my time convincing atheists their on the wrong track see ya!
Me personally...??? I started realizing some inconsistencies in biblical teaching that totally dismissed the actual words of the bible.
I begged through tears to receive the message as intended. I pleaded with him to remember that he promised that if I (or anyone else for that matter) asked for wisdom, he would give it to me. I prayed that he would show me what I needed to know. I prayed that he would please help me to grow in him. I prayed that he would not leave me.
And the rest is history...
The bible is so true. Most "Christians" do not believe that. And it becomes evident by the way that they speak.
The bible is the place that we learn about Jesus. When we follow him; we seek his will by knowing and doing what he said. Humility, something else quite lacking in these forums, is necessary. There is no book but the one (composed of 66) that allows a true relationship with God. Splitting up the personally acceptable verses from the personally red-lighted verses is faithful??? No.
Solid adherence to the truth that God said it is is what is required. Infallible is not human. Obedience is possible only through knowledge of what he desires. What he desires is written.
You cannot disregard truth and be free as one who follows Jesus.
What is true must be confessed. We cannot tear useless pages from the book. We must agree with what is true. We must have faith that it is truth so we don't miss the lines that are drawn. "What seems right to man...(I forgot the rest)." God thinks differently.
Sorry we have no "shining examples" but Jesus; just truth...
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
If you are not adhering to the words above you are just as hypocritical.
"It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
"If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away."
What he expects is right there before you. If you are preaching the bible then walk the walk. Or is your God the one that allows you to still do as you please? If funny how people tend to get the God that helps them continue to do as they please.
The spirit of those words is probably way far from your understanding. I have gouged out my eyes and thrown them away many times. And I've lost all of my hands.
Right now, handling serpents and moving mountains. Literally.
It really works well to change the meaning of biblical writings, doesn't it? LOTS more palatable when they mean whatever you wish them to say.
Yes, we are unable to understand the written word unless we filter it through rose colored glasses.
It sure is funny what believers will say, nothing is left to integrity and honesty.
“Lying to ourselves is more deeply ingrained than lying to others.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky
The same guy said, "love the Lord, your God with all your, heart, soul, mind & strength. And love your neighbor as you love yourself."
When you have made the commitment to live by these, then come back and give your advice.
Oh, I get it. She can preach all she wants whenever she wants, but I can't do the same. You do understand that it's my love for her that is making me bring this up. Jesus was very clear and I want her to reach her potential and not burn in hellfire as described by Jesus.
So how come you haven't given her the same advice? "When you have made the commitment to live by these, then come back and give your advice."
It's funny really. I point out that she behaving like a massive hypocrite as she doesn't even try to follow the words she preaches and you turn and tell me that I don't have the right to give advice, why? Because I myself don't follow scripture. I am at least honest about it.
My hypocrisy is manufactured by the spirit of something else. I have not advised anyone on how poorly they are doing. I quote scriptures.
And I quoted scripture as well. I believe you have manufactured this spirit that you say directs you, as he would have directed you in the direction that is described in the bible. It's not may way, I personally don't care if you follow the word of Jesus or not, but since it's important to you that the rest of us do, so perhaps you should too.
Just telling truth. Do with it as you please.
The Holy spirit is not a he; it is the essence of God (or maybe even reality is a good term). It is like a knowledge that encompasses you. A definite presence that guides your decision making processes (or the mind).
It takes more than quoting scriptures for the Word to be conveyed. It takes a wisdom that most people don't have. If Jesus meant that each time you have a problem with your eyeballs, that you should pluck them out; none of his people would see.
He was no dummy. He came because the flesh was incapable. He knew that. He gave us the info we need to make it.
Have the right mind.
That which was in Christ Jesus. "But Lord however will we know HIS mind???"
It is written...
If, indeed, you welcome correction, then, I submit to you, that the Holy Spirit IS in fact, a person. Not merely some force.
I don't have the time now to list scriptures, but suffice it to say, that He is always spoken of as a person, with attributes of a person, rather than just some impersonal force, or power.
Thanks!!! Biblical correction is always welcome, expected, and clung to.
I have always been under the impression that spirit is spirit.
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.
So a Person lives within me??? Sounds weird.
Whenever you have time; we should discuss it.
I love each opportunity to grow and I appreciate spiritual check.
(21) From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. (22) Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" (23) But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
New King James Version
Like Peter, we could be motivated to believe or disbelieve something, accept or reject something, say something or keep silent, depending on the circumstance. Additionally, we may have no reaction at all at the moment of communication, but the thought is stored and available for later use or supplementation. It is entirely possible for a person to go through his entire life as a pawn of Satan and never know it.
This situation reflects a usage of what the Bible's writers term "spirit." Spirit is the English translation of the Hebrew ruach (Strong's #7304), in the Old Testament and the Greek pneuma (Strong's #5141) in the New. It can literally mean "a current of air," "breath," "blast," or "breeze." However, when used figuratively, it indicates "vital principle," "disposition," "the rational soul," etc., or an invisible super-being such as God, Christ, an angel, or a demon. Whether used literally, as with "wind" or "breath," or figuratively, as indicating God, angel, or demon, it describes something that is invisible and immaterial and at the same time powerful, even a thing of considerable power. The foremost elements of spirit, then, are invisibility, immateriality, and power.
E.W. Bullinger remarks in Appendix 9 of the Companion Bible:
The meaning of the word is to be deduced only from its usage. The one root idea running through all of the passages is invisible force. . . . [i]n whatever sense it is used, [it] always represents that which is invisible except by its manifestations.
He also shows that ruach is used in nine different ways in the Old Testament, while pneuma is used fourteen different ways in the New Testament.
In John 6:63, Jesus says, "It is the Spirit [which] gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." Here is a clear example of the figurative use of "spirit." Words are the symbols used for communication; they are received into our minds through sight, as when reading, or sound, as when hearing. But once in the mind, nothing material is packed into our brain. Words - and thus the concepts they carry with them - are spirit because they are immaterial, invisible, and of considerable power, depending on how we use them. Thus, we can receive "spirit" in the form of words or concepts from a spirit being. In this case, it is in reality "thought transference" because no sound is heard through our ears.
Just because one is close to Christ does not eliminate the prospect that a demon will communicate with and through him. As seen in Matthew 16:22-23, Peter did the speaking, but Jesus spoke directly to Satan, naming him as the source of Peter's outburst against God's will that Jesus should suffer and die. Without Peter's recognizing it, he permitted himself to be a conduit for Satan's will. The disciple's "good" intention was against God's will, and Jesus thus judged it to be evil.
This was my daily verse from theberean.org
My email must come before the site posts; I could not post the link. I copied from email.
However, amazing how this happens right? its like someone watching over me... very often, a word that I have discussed here will come via thebearean.org or thedailyword via email also; the very same or next day! It amazes me. Maybe their Chief joins the forum.
So what do you think about my email?
Blah blah blah blah. All talk no action. Should I quote more scripture?
Sure!!! But lack of holy spiritual presence may make you to quote them without properly understanding your speech. but I will offer as much assistance as I can.
What?! Are you saying that scripture doesn't mean what it says? That we have to change it to something that fits our lifestyle before accepting the word of God?
No. Scripture means what it means. We have to know what it means and act accordingly.
Now, go gouge out your eyeballs and cut off your hands!!!
Ah! It means what it means but not what it says. I think that's what I said, isn't it?
Yep - shall cut off my hands for sure.
Wilderness, I'd like to invite you to join the the religious group Alienating People from Jesus for Jesus-APJJ for short. I see you are already acquainted with some of our members. We'd have pamplets, but for some reason every printer kicks us out after five minutes. We think it's because he doesn't want to hear the word of Christ. Printers are heathens like that.
You didn't need to read anything anyway, just listen to what we say. What could the written word offer you that we can't? You would just have to ask us what it means anyway because until you are an official member of APJJ for your entire life you can't understand anything that's actually written.
Think of us like decoder rings.
Just sign these membership papers right here at the bottom. Like I said before don't bother reading it, you wouldn't understand it.
No. You said something about changing scripture to adapt it to your lifestyle. But you'd have to get with the other kind of Christian sects for that. I cling to what is biblically written. You gouging yet??? lol
But I have holy spiritual presence, and mine is telling me that your is false and that you should at least attempt to follow scripture before preaching it yourself.
Are you now preaching/following???
The God I serve moves "mountains" everyday!!!
Really? And, here we thought all along it was plate tectonics.
You will now NOT be able to say that you didn't know the truth.
So you are happy that you have condemned him to hell? Well done you! Disgusting.
I cannot condemn people to hell. That would be disgusting.
There is no Hell, but the one you create by choosing to stay here.
I am not going to argue with you. You are aligned with the will of God, and that's all that matters.
and he also described what will happen to those who don't follow is direction.
You will NOT be able to say you didn't know the truth.
"If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."
1 Corinthians 14:34 ESV
"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."
Wow, a God that can and does move mountains has very specific laws he wants you to live by, but you refuse to listen to his words.
Very specific rules indeed!
He has given me the assurance that my heart is clean. And he has also insured me that you refuse to see/hear it.
I will not be judged by what you think in your heart. You will.
He has spoken directly to me on the matter and says that despite his best efforts you refuse to adhere to his words. He wants the best for you and asked me to relay this information directly to you. I don't judge, I just pass on the pertinent information. God rules on fornication and women preachers is very clear. He says you have plenty of time to stop the lip service and repair the damage. His words, not mine.
The whistling of that kettle is deafening.
Regardless of who said those words, the same person would never say anything to the contrary, correct?
For example, they would never say anyone is going to hell if they don't worship an love them, correct?
I KNEW SHE HAD AN ANGLE... I just could not put my finger on it...!!! Her club is recruiting...
But as Grandma always said, "When someone SHOWS you who they are; believe them.
This one is adamant...
Greater is he that is in us... Amen
Scripture rightly divided takes faith to know that it is right. And humility enough to speak it even whilst all others yell "OUCH" and start firing cannons without realizing why. But most of all, the spirit of God; which if denied is denied.
So, Jesus, in explanation of what scripture means, used PARAbles. He utilised the spirit of God to do so. And he left with us that same spirit to do so ourselves. what a wonderful gift. Which again is, if denied, denied.
Then one without the spirit of God starts making up his own stuff and changing the words to feel good and including madness into the will of God and adamantly suggesting that others do the same.
Truth is what we are after. Not fame. Not friends. Truth.
What a weak, pathetic god you follow. Incapable of expressing itself properly it needs to have you translate what it said for us? How special you are.
We need to translate the words for ourselves. He NEEDS nothing from us. The good of helping our brothers to translate properly is smiled upon.
Weak and pathetic...??? ok
So - your god was simply not capable of expressing itself clearly. Would incompetent be a better description?
But thanks for explaining at me why you need to change what it says. I am always interested in why women feel they can go against the word of god and teach men what the bible really means.
He explained himself clearly. Certain people are not privy, due to their own self-sufficiency, to the realization of his clear messages. I'm not special. Just needy. And he supplies.
Uh, the woman bashing is cute
Do it again...
Sorry if you feel the word of god is bashing women. Guess you aren't reading it properly.
If it explained itself clearly - how come we need you to tell us what it actually means?
And how come the religionist on the other thread is saying you are translating it wrong and he/she actually has it right?
The word of God does not bash women. It uplifts.
And it needs to be explained to those who have not yet said yes to his will alone.
The lady on the other thread who is correcting YOU on what I AM saying should be gracious enough to share the CORRECT message with ALL of God's children and never allow herself the guilt of standing by to watch one who is "lost" to find her way.
Please relay to the OTHER woman preacher on the OTHER forum who has YOUR blessing. I may need to speak with her. Thanks.
Thanks for explaining what god really means. No one has my blessing - I just appreciate and thank you for showing me why the bible causes so so much hatred and conflict. So - women are allowed to teach men now? When did the word of god change?
I guess it ended when Paul died. Lol
To be honest. I'm not sure it ever really started. I am not sure if that was just the way the apostle did at his church or not; God used, and spoke through women.
How odd that the bible was written exclusively by men and the "original" Christian church forbids women preachers in that case. You sure you are changing the meaning properly?
So YOU know who wrote the books?!?!?
You git'chur pew-litz-ur???
Women could not teach men in the church. You changing from the wrong start point. Know the words, so you may PROPERLY throw them.
I suspect you have not actually read this book. You seem to be parroting what others have said.
Must've been some spiritual people. I parrot scripture; there's only one spirit. We parrots have one voice.
A preacher is a teacher, no? Or do they just regurgitate things that the church goers already know?
Also, if that's just how Paul "ran things in his church," why include it in the NT? Where and how are we to distinguish between the things that were meant for individuals or that were meant for everybody? If that can be applied to Paul's book, why not those of all of other authors, as well?
I'm not definitive on the subject. I know that God uses even things to do his bidding. Women are at least in THAT category.
Your bible says differently. You should read it,
1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 138
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
You are not reading that correctly.
A donkey, a bed of rocks, a queen, and even a "whore" was given the ability to lead men. for sure, a woman can. Ok, I will not apply for a clergy position. Happy now???
My preparation and lamp were given me to boldly stand here and say, Christ is the only way!!!
Now take it or leave it. I have done my part. You can focus on me all you want. I am covered by the spirit of truth. My past is "white"...
So that piece of scripture you don't agree with because it tells you to do something you don't want to?
I agree with scripture in its entirety. I know how to decode.
Do you have the spirit of God within you?
Sure, don't we all. Didn't I mention that God has asked me to straighten you out?
No you didn't. And I'm glad too. Lying on the father can be deadly.
You think your God would send you to hell for a lie, but not adultery or teaching men?
Hope you are enjoying your "conversation" with RA.
Your in for a slippery ride!
PS, If you want some advice, walk away.
Good advice. I tend to use reason and that is incompatible with religious belief.
No, you don't need to translate anything. If you are a follower read what it says and follow. You can't make your own rules to suite your own needs. If it say adultery will send you to hell then don't do it. If you are going to dish out scripture to point at others than expect the same thing back.
I submit to the fact that adultery is wrong. Where were you about ten posts ago?
I know where my leak is. I know how to fix it. 1. Submit to what is true. 2. Humbly admit your mistake to God. 3. Ask him to forgive you and provide his protection as you work with him to straighten crooked places. 4. Receive his blessing. 5. See him on judgment day with excitement because you know that he remembers that "thing" no more.
It's quite simple actually.
He wants us to look in the mirror of truth and NOT forget the image we saw...
So you absolve yourself and continue doing what you are asked not to do.
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."
Can I expect to not be hearing from you anymore?
If anybody forced me near the brink of leaving my God, I would pray for more faith. And if Christians were the forces, I would check myself. "How can you say you love me whom you do not see; and hate your brother...?"
Jesus was an evangelist. He said, "you will do what I do...even greater."
The bible discerns who's who. I guess that's why so many like to pick and choose the "good/tamper-free" scriptures and run with those.
No one is asking you to leave your faith if it works for you, but faith is like a fart in an elevator. It may feel good to let it out but nobody wants to hear it.
Well you close your eyes too. Problem solved.
Closing ones eyes won't stop someone from hearing or smelling a fart.
Gosh! You DON'T get metaphor do you? Listen carefully. We are not on an elevator, and we are not speaking of a fart. The "offense" is in READING the words of Jesus; being severely convicted; and yelling, OUCH!
Do YOU understand??? lol
What offensive is listening to someone quote words she herself has no intention to obeying.
It would make much more sense to close one mouth than close a multitude of ears who don't want to hear it.
Nope! My mouth was closed for a long time and still, you do not understand spirit.
So, let's take it from the top, shall we..
In the beginning, God... and I could stop right there. But there is much more that needs to be revealed.
You just WAIT til I get my new laptop...got some hubs...
That would be the preference, yes, please do.
Again, I am not here to pleasure you. This is my father's business. Truth...
Adultery is Wrong so said the Law of God in the bible. Among mankind in America there is no law that says mankind will go to hell if he or she commit Adultery. Believers and nonbelievers, more so believers are subject to hell on earth when they ignore the law of God. They could be running around for years hoping a mountain falls on them. We don't have to die to go to hell, we can have our hell on earth. In America adultery is a civil matter, with God its right or wrong, good or bad. Believers and non believers were made in the spiritual image of God and most of the time know right from wrong. We can do so much wrong, we wouldn't have to die to go to hell.
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Please keep out of this thread unless you are Mark Knowles or Gardner Osagie.We have both decided on a formal debate, structured as follows:Three rounds of:The Affirmative always goes first(that would be Gardner)Then...
by Phocas Vincent21 months ago
Is it possible to truly be religious as well as believe in the evidence of science with theories such as evolution, the Big Bang and dinosaurs existing prior to man not along side? (Please keep it clean and civil guys,...
by CJ Simonelli3 years ago
Change - mutations, adaption, survival of the fittest, variations based on the environment, and perhaps even some speciation, as in a new "species" of flies - are undisputed facts that do NOT contradict the...
by Sheila Craan2 years ago
Does the theory of evolution make sense to you?
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