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The god of evolution

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    CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago

    Through evolution theory the deceiver is attempting to silence the testimony of creation about the Creator, to destroy belief in the Word and to ultimately destroy faith in the true God, replacing him with nonsensical happenings that have no meaning, no need for good rather than evil, and no incentive to seek the truth and the One who is truth. God has placed within people everywhere rudimentary knowledge of himself and of his goodness, so that across nations people have established right from wrong, and they have sought and worshiped that which is beyond themselves. God has likewise given us all of creation as a powerful witness of his very existence and of his nature. As it is written: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard" (19:1-4, Psalm), and "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" (1:20, Romans). But now in these last days, the deceiver has been successfully silencing the testimony of creation for more and more people. Christians too often underestimate the evil and intended harm bound in the godless evolution theories, and too often compromise if not their own faith, than that of their children and youth. Children are taught in today's public schools and by popular media that evolution theory is fact, and having been taught lies from the beginning by seemingly knowledgeable authorities, most will believe what they have been taught, as people tend to believe the popular lies of any day. Those who attend secular college will be taught more of the deceiver's false wisdom and they will be subject to even greater mind control by evolution pushers who demand unquestioning adherence to their theories. Anyone who dares to profess faith in the Creator or who challenges the theory of evolution will be ridiculed and manipulatively labeled as gullible, simple or even stupid. The popularity of evolution theory should not come as a surprise to the believer in the Word, as it was foretold to us, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (4:3-4, 2 Timothy). Evolution theory is exactly what many "itching ears want to hear" - with no God and no  God-given truth, people are free to arrogantly create their own truth, to do whatever they please, and to worship no one but themselves! Loyal followers of evolution will defend and fight for the theory with as much zeal as anyone fighting for their demon god, so that there are few ways to make enemies faster in this day than to speak against the beloved "god of evolution".

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      Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you look at a Wood Frog on utube, your'l see that here is a creature that freezes to death every winter, and when it thaws out it comes back to life...So the Wood Frog is a clue, making me think that we're all just Solar powered machines, transport for our spirit/soul/consciousness....The difference between me and the Wood Frog, is that i have free will....I don't think there's many Wood Frogs out there, that ask these sorts of questions!lol....Also look at the Bacterial Flagelum Motor also on utube, a self assembling Nano machine, the most efficient motor in the universe, so in my eyes another obvious clue that we've been designed......The "ego" is "looking" for proof of evolution, and that's why their looking so hard....The "collective ego" just has to know, whereas i know it will be explained to me as i go through life....So i'm still on the fence as far as what i believe, but i am leaning more and more towards a creator....There's clues everywhere, but unless a none believer was to look at the possibility of god, then they won't ever see the clues.....I asked for proof whilst meditating, and got a series of "coincidences", but i still can't quite believe, because my mind is in the way. :-)

      1. Paul Wingert profile image80
        Paul Wingertposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8675540_f248.jpg

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well mine is a bit smaller; has more pages; bit more ink. But I guess your bible must be best suited for you...and probably a bit easier to not read. Maybe you should purchase a few just in case you lose it. Wouldn't want your commands forgotten, now would you. Lol

        2. aka-dj profile image79
          aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          http://www.21st-century-christianity.com/images/Bible-Best-Seller.jpg

          1. Paul Wingert profile image80
            Paul Wingertposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Sad waste of paper.

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          Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Paul how do you know the Bible isn't real, if you wasn't there when they didn't write it?lol

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            CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You have a likable personality, Dave36. Sorry I haven't responded much to your posts. Anyway, I just want to say a prayer for you, if you don't mind: Father God, I pray, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that you will REVEAL yourself to this one who is seeking, so that he will SEE you and will be at home with us for all eternity. In Jesus' powerful name I ask it. Amen.

            1. Paul Wingert profile image80
              Paul Wingertposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Check out the brain on Brad, you're a smart mother f****r (my favorite line in Pulp Fiction). Sorry didn't pertain to you. So with that in mind, the War of 1812 and the French Revolution never happened either since I wasn't there? Doesn't make much sense now does it? Any more brilliant comments?

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                Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No mate they didn't happen, not how they say anyway!...Information passed through generations, & over time....Is only taught how ever the "ruling classes", Royalty, Religions, Politicians etc want it to be taught....ALL other information is destroyed, and this is well documented throughout history.....So do i really believe the Bible is real?, no of course i don't, but do i believe it's fake?, no of course i don't, I can't "prove" it either way!.....What i do know is that, most things that we've been taught about history is a complete lie, OR is it?lol......So do i believe in God?, well i can't say that i believe, but i can say that i feel something.....Only since iv'e been looking inside me, (& by the way), i do know how mad that sounds!lol

                1. Paul Wingert profile image80
                  Paul Wingertposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I took your comment the wrong way. Sorry about that. Yes of course, in grade school history class we only get the very basics of a particular event. For example, we are tought that Hitler started WW2, but if one want's dig into it, there was a laundry list of circumstances that lead up to that  - like the Versailles Treaty for starters.  It's always the victors that tells history (except the case of Custer's Last Stand where the Indian's side of the story wasn't taken seriously until recent physical evidence proved them right) and it usually holds up unless some conflicting evidence comes along.

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              Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hey thanks CJ Simonelli, i don't mind at all.
              Why i'm on here is because, i started meditating etc about 8 months ago.
              Trying to gain control of my negative mind, & feelings/emotions etc.
              So i mastered that stuff, well i say mastered i don't think i'll ever master it.
              But got in 99% of the time in control of it at least, so i started to feel a lot more relaxed about life.
              Anyway iv'e been an Oil Refinery contractor for 20 years, a proper "roughy toughy" etc!lol
              So i know i'm confusing ALL my friends & family etc, because i tell them iv'e actually seen clues/signs etc, which make me believe i'm now being drawn to something.
              I now believe there's actually "something", that wants me to go in a certain direction in life, but it wants me to find it.
              Like i say i don't do what my mind says any more, rather i listen to my heart.
              Most of my mates etc laugh when i say that, but i know it's the truth.
              I'm still confused about it all, & i think that's the point of it all. :-)

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        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, science has debunked the IDers Bacterial Flagelum Motor argument almost directly after IDers brought it up buy showing a list of other bacteria that function with less parts as the flagellum.

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          Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There's 100's of clues mate, that you scientific "smart guys" are missing.
          What's more is your'l never see them, because your looking in the wrong direction.
          Your always busy looking out there, and measuring the Universe!lol
          When i bet you any money that none of you scientific "smart guys", have "ever" looked inside yourself for the answers.
          There's plenty of things in your home, that you know nothing about.
          You won't know how their made, who designed them, what their made from, etc etc.
          But you use them all, just like we use our bodies etc.
          So finding our what i'm made from etc, means absolutely nothing to me, as we had to be made from something didn't we?,
          Like i say do some meditating, and just ask if there's a god.
          Actually ask him or her to "prove" it to you, but when you ask you DON'T use your mind to ask....It's a bit tricky, & takes a lot of practice....Now your only gonna get a sign/clue, but when you see a few of them, your'l start to feel differently about the whole thing.
          I still don't believe in god, as my mind is "still" waiting for more proof, & that's the battle.
          NOT to control your mind, & brainwash yourself into believing.
          BUT, to just simply let your mind accept the possibility, that there might be a creator of some kind.
          Once your open you will feel something, i did anyway buddy otherwise i wouldn't mention it.
          But your scientific, so there's an experiment for you to try.
          "BUT"! get this, "IF" you don't try it, you ARE brainwashed!lol

          1. Dr Lamb profile image60
            Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Sure, the subconscious mind would love the idea or concept of a God. Just because the mind would grab hold of that concept doesn't mean it's factual.

            I once believed in God. I reasoned he's not there.

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              My life summed up in 10 words.

              1. Dr Lamb profile image60
                Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I was moved by your post that spoke of your aunt giving you a hard time. I've had very similar experience. I don't speak about religion amongst friends because I could lose them. And have had some terrible experiences with family members.

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              Dave36posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I think the mind is the problem Dr Lamb, & i think it's a shame that you've let your mind reason a creator might not exist...Iv'e not been led astray by my mind, & iv'e looked into a lot more than the average person has...So from what's happened to me throughout my life, & the unexplainable things iv'e seen in the last 7/8 months i have to conclude the following: Something is giving me "actual" signs, to make me believe in something, or to make me "realise" something, would be a better way of putting it...Now i'm not saying that some of them "couldn't" have happened mathematically, but i got a "series" of them that definitely couldn't have "accidentally/mathematically" happened...It was & still is unbelievable to "me", & yet they did happen....I can't get even close to an answer, but it was something to do with my "intentions" which we're massive at the time, in a certain state of mind, that actually caused 2 particular "coincidences", or as i like to call then, "signs".to happen....It's funny because both of the recent one's we're witnessed by friends, however neither parties could grasp what had happened, as it was "too" weird "to them", & in their eyes "had" to be a coincidence....Also iv'e seen a couple of visual effects that i can't explain, & found no info on on the internet.....It's like i 1st saw something after months of meditating etc, something totally different to anything i'd seen before, only for a few seconds, but i know i saw it....Then over a month or so i started telling myself, "maybe" i didn't see it....Then i saw another "unexplainable" thing, but like i say a month would go by, & i'd "try" to write it off....Then blatant unexplainable "more than random" coincidences started to happen, not many but then 2 in a week....Iv'e also had 2 totally "no mind" experiences whilst meditating, but both times was "not" asleep just very deeply meditating....During those moments my body/mind/universe disappeared, & all that was left was the "i", total nothingness & the "i" or the awareness that i am "that" i that was just looking into nothingness....The thing is though is i know full well how "mental" that all sounds, but i'm just trying to make sense of it my self....So i'm not gonna come on here a make this up, as what would i possibly gain from doing that....I'm 41 yrs old & worked in nearly 40 countries on oil refineries, i work out every day, boxing, martial arts etc....I'm happy etc, but these things did happen...If i had to guess i'd say we are just minds, but not minds trapped in "bodies", but minds that create our bodies/world/universe etc...Maybe we all just project the world between us, but think about this mathematically: IF mathematically Dave36 (me) could be alive now in an infinite universe, then surely i'm alive "all the time"!...So what do you say Dr Lamb, should i be sectioned?lol....I'm only joking, i would love your opinion though...Bearing in mind i am "still" considered sane by all that know me, even after telling them about all this....They just say i have very interesting views, whereas i know their minds can't actually comprehend what i tell them, as their mostly fast asleep....The thing is though is i'm not being brainwashed into believing what i saw, if anything my mind "can't" accept what it saw.... :-)

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I think I know where you are coming from? Hard as you try you can't describe the experience  adequately        "with words". Ill briefly mention one instance which happened to me. While in a "fog"  To be given answers to questions you have never even considered the question? Being fascinated with what I had learned, that that I picked up a pencil to write some of it down, ... but the thought melts like as quickly as snow flake. But somehow I felt like my subconscious mind retained it.  The strangest thing is that it happened while driving home from work, a fifteen minute drive while three hours actually passed. I've never told of this incident before mostly because no one would believe it anyway.
                These kind of things used to happen all the time.  I think this is where I get most of my weird ideas from.

              2. Dr Lamb profile image60
                Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I think what you've described has been described by monks and others that practice meditation. It's amazing what the mind can do. Please study the effects of meditation and understand that the mind can can play tricks on you. It can make you feel like you are floating when you are not.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  God knows the power of meditation. He told us how to do it properly. "Our father, who art in heaven...THY will be done..." He knows how powerfully tricky the mind can get, "lean not unto your own understanding." smile
                  His way is correct. All other paths lead to destruction. Even the ones who think they serve God; but try to use his cover for their own ideas. Yes he loves us and wants no one to perish. That is why he gave us instruction on what right REALLY is. Those who have their FREE EAR will hear...

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Nice. smile you are having an experience I once had. The opening of the heart is what it takes. I'm glad you know. It is the brain that trips us up. The bible lets us know that we cannot rely on our own thoughts. They are the thing that keeps us from understanding what he meant.
            For instance, he was not telling his followers to deny the admonition to do no work on the Sabbath by allowing his followers to pluck and eat; nor by fixing the withered hand. He said that it was good to do good on the Sabbath. "Who among you would leave your sheep in a ditch...???"
            There was a method. He utilized the mind of God. It leads somewhere for sure. No circles. We must use the mind of God. We know it by the example of Jesus. If you believe as I...

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Since the heart only pumps blood and the brain is where all activity is centered, whether it is thoughts or beliefs, the Bible is obviously wrong on that one. There is no other way than the use of the brain.

              1. Dr Lamb profile image60
                Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The depth of ignorance and stupidity is truly mind boggling.

            2. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              For 'Heart' I guess you mean an emotional response which is centred in the brain. Now by all means base your life upon emotional responses, and indeed we all make decisions occasionally based upon emotion rather than rational thinking. But to suggest that one should make an all consuming decision whether or not to convert to Christianity based upon an emotional response is nonsensical. Even more nonsensical is the idea that people go to hell for failing to exhibit the 'required' emotional responses. Do you get what I'm saying?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yes! By all means, I do. This life is not for those who desire their own rationale. Followers use the mind of Christ. They have an assurance that he is right. No one, surely me, is suggesting that you let go of your rational senses. Not everyone can. It is a stronghold that conquers the ability to hear what thus says the Lord. The reason for that is reasonable. I mean, who can imagine a person being formed from dirt with blood, vessels to carry it, organs to sustain it and breath to give it life but God??? wink his world is SO large that human capabilities fail miserably in the comprehension arena. We just aint smart enough. Ask Eve.

            3. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The one thing that sets us apart from other animals, that gives us superiority over all (except maybe cockroaches smile ) is the huge brain that God gives us, and you're telling us to ignore what it says - that we cannot rely on what God's work tells us?

              It's a different take on the matter for sure.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly Wilderness!  I think you're getting it!!! wink
                God knows how his work works. He knows its ability/inability much better than we can ever imagine. He knows what to say and do to get his points across. He knows that those with an ear that they put on themselves, will hear. Those who have closed their "ear" will not.
                Thanks! You ARE brilliant. smile

      3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        People are being socially conditioned, in a sense, to not ever look for any other possibilities.  This would include a possible uncaused cause, or intelligence that could get the job done.  The level of ridicule heard about in classrooms across the globe is a huge tactic in teaching people to be silent and not really further critical thinking about the subjects. 

        Some people are really not too strong in the face of put downs, especially from professors they are sitting under to learn from.  They sometimes quickly ditch their beliefs and fall for the tactics without considering that their grandparents that never made it past elementary school might really have been on to something. These things don't hinge on the level of education held by those that hold the views, they hinge on actual truths of the universe and the world and humanity and how they work.

        1. Dr Lamb profile image60
          Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Education teaches critical thinking. Looking at all things critically, even religion. Religion doesn't allow for critical thought. It simply tell you what to think. This is why we have people claiming the heart muscle is where love comes from.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Ever had an artichoke heart? Hey! But artichokes don't love. Hmmmmm... can you now figure what the spiritual heart is??? Oh! Artichokes don't have muscles either! (That's a hint)
            Where does love come from???
            PLEASE give me the answer I seek...I already have a response picked out... wink

          2. 60
            Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Mmmm I guess CSLewis got it wrong then and Im pretty sure Dr Lamb academically you would be a midget compared to him...oh and that other guy Frances Collins and Dr William Lane Craig the atheists tormenter etc etc the list of all those poor academics who believed on this invisible man in the sky you call God is to long to post it on here

    2. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      CJ, it seems that you are fighting for church dogma, rather than God's truth.

      Certainly there are some scientists who despise the idea of God. Certainly the idea of evolution has been perverted to be anti-God. But science is not anti-God and neither is evolution.

      God created evolution. If you think the Bible says differently, then I might add that you're reading it entirely too literally. The Bible was meant to be read spiritually. (2 Cor. 3:6) Jesus emphasized this with his difficult parables and his statement that salvation is a narrow path -- not an easy (literal) location.

      By reading with the spirit, the Bible reveals a timeline which is entirely compatible with those of mainstream science.

      Jesus pleaded with us to be humble (last), rather than arrogant (first). There is so much more to learn in the Bible, but first you have to be humble and hungry. If you think you know it all, you can never learn anything.

    3. Cat333 profile image81
      Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I just want to offer a word of encouragement to Cgenaea from one sister-in-Christ to another: I know you are a prophetess, that you have the Spirit within you, and that you rightly divide the word of truth. While I can't recall every post and I understand if your humanity enters in here or there, yet remarkably in all your many words I did not see falsehood come out of your mouth. It seems some are offended at the words of God and project their anger onto the messenger. 

      Despite many attacks against you, you've stood courageously for Christ. You have not offered a watered-down version of Christianity as many today do, but have stood on the everlasting truth of the eternal God. While others have accused you of pride, I see humility - a woman who readily admits faults, a past, humbling experiences, sicknesses... And all this for the love of others.

      Let these verses from John 15:18-21 encourage you: "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me."

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        He who is forgiven much; loves much also.
        To whom much is given, much is required. (I gotta lotta faith smile )
        Watering down the words is not faithful. I want to be pleasing to God; not man if he has other plans.
        I fully appreciate your love for/to me. smile
        He that is in us is greater.

  2. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Truly true truth. smile
    I as a follower of truth see some parts of the theory of evolution to be in step with the way God created the world. The world lives breathes and grows to accomodate its inhabitants in a way, evolving. People have definitely had to evolve. Not from apes. But that's another story.

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    CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago

    Yes, it is as you say. Some make the distinction between microevolution (those changes you mention, which do in fact occur) and macroevolution, which includes the whole ape-like creature to human concept. If evolution theory had stuck with the facts it would be ok, but it went on to make some outlandish inferences and speculations intended to destroy faith in God.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And it is very effective. smile

    2. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And some believers made outlandish and fraudulent inferences about science. Not enough humility on both sides.

      Micro-evolution x 1,000,000,000 = Macro-evolution.

      But I suspect that God created in life the ability to make rapid changes when needed -- biological punctuated equilibrium.

      I find God's creation of evolution to be quite clever and wonderful.

      Some believers put on blinders (ego) and equate spiritual death in the Garden with physical death outside of the Garden. They're not the same thing -- just as apples and oranges are not the same thing.

      The universe is billions of years old. The collisions of galaxies proves this. I sincerely doubt that God would create the aftermath of collisions which never occurred.

      More than being right or wrong about this interesting topic, we need to find greater humility and hunger to learn what God has to teach us. The Bible is full of Hidden Wisdom as yet untapped.

      I've discovered only a tiny drop of that wisdom, detailed in my new book, "The Bible's Hidden Wisdom, God's Reason for Noah's Flood," Rod Martin, Jr. (about to be published).

      God created the reality that science studies. Don't ignore reality (science); that only leads to delusion. Be humble. There's more to learn.

  4. getitrite profile image80
    getitriteposted 2 years ago

    http://www.durangobill.com/CreationismPics/CreationismWitchDoctor.gif

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      CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you have nothing wise to say, resort to mocking.

  5. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    Paragraphs please?

    IMHO distinguishing macro and micro seems selective.  So the proto-shrew can become the horse, but the chimp cannot become the 93% genetically identical human.

    Either species evolve, or fossils are Gods greatest joke since inventing the male testicle, imho.

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      CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      They won't tell you in the mainstream systems run by the "prince of this world" (that is, Satan), but the literature is FULL of scientists saying the fossil record has not supported evolution theory in the way they'd hoped. There are too many gaps and distinct kinds, not enough that can be construed as transitional. Scientists are only making their best efforts, trying to put things together, line them up, theorize about them...

      1. Don W profile image84
        Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Looking at it from your point of view, I have some questions:

        1) How do I know you are not a messenger of satan, trying to deceive us into believing evolution is false?

        2) Many Christians understand and accept the theory of evolution. Either you are wrong, or they are. Why should I believe you are the real Christian?

        3) How do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner and others? Is god not free to deliver his message via any means he chooses, even through an atheist? Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?

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          Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You'll know that the message is from God if the one delivering it confesses Jesus to be the son of God.  I can do that, and I am sure CJ can too, but I don't think you'd get that from some of the other people on this forum.  You are correct that Satan deceives others by appearing as an angel of light...which is why you have fake Christians, hypocrites, and you have to be careful.  Again, she who is not with us is against us.  Period.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, as a Christian, I am with Christ. You have nothing to do with it. Again, going along with your ideas doesn't make one Christian... unless you've been walking across lakes lately.

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              Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              She who is NOT with us IS against us.  It's one thing if you don't believe, like most of the people on this forum.  That, I can handle.  But it's when a hypocrite appears, talking nonsense about how she is with Christ, yet, does not produce the fruit, if you will, that frustrates  me.  You can tell a tree by it's fruit, and your tree is dead in the winter.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So, let me get this straight... Because I disagree with the way that YOU make an argument, I am against Christ?

                ROFLMAO!  Whatever you say dear.

                So any disagreement with any Christian sends one to hell. You are currently arguing with a Christian.

                Pack your bags, bring sunblock.

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                  Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I am?  CJ, where are you?  What other Christian am I arguing with?

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                    Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    There's no other Christian here, other than myself, at the moment.

                  2. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                    MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    *Giggles*

                    I got one judge, and it ain't you. I'm sure he likes you attempting to do his job, though. Let me know how that works out when you discuss it with him.

                    Again, your arguments are silly, nonsensical, and not going to impress anyone with an IQ over 90. All the personal attacks and diversions aren't going to change the basic lack of anything close to effective logic.

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                  CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  MelissaBarrett: If you are a Christian (I will not make that judgment), then WHY on earth are you so often speaking against other Christians, aligning yourself with those outside rather than inside the family, making points against God and for atheists, etc. Now I have seen places where you speak some truth, and you may be a Christian, but perhaps a spiritually immature one. My greatest concerns are that 1) you attack the believers and refuse to follow Christ's command to keep the unity of the Spirit (and the last time I brought this up you seemed to have no concept of the Spirit); 2) You seem to have no love of the Word of God, even though it is inspired by the Spirit himself and even though Jesus is the Word in the flesh; 3) I've seen more zeal for evolution theory than for God from you; 4) you seem to have no interest in the eternal salvation of others, but take the attitude of, "If you want to be a Christian, great, and if you want to go to hell, great." This is more the attitude of an unbeliever who doesn't really believe hell exists, so doesn't get the serious, urgent nature of the matter. Those who flatter unbelievers (say by telling them their idol worship or lack of belief is fine) are not really acting in love because of the eternal consequences of such. If you HONESTLY believe the person is heading down a path of destruction, why are you not more zealously trying to turn them from destruction? You even told me I was committing "spiritual rape" by praying for someone against their will. In reality it's more like shoving someone out of the way of an approaching truck. They might not appreciate the shove UNTIL they see the truck, and once they do see it they aren't going to sue you for assault, they're going to THANK you for playing a part in saving them!   

                  I must admit I'm often annoyed, but at least as often I feel an overwhelming sense of sadness regarding you.

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                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You might reconsider calling someone else spiritually immature. Especially since your posts imply that the shoe may fit others a little more snugly.

                    Melissa speaks her mind. I don't always agree.Which doesn't make me right, or wrong. I am saddened by the manner Christians appear to attack one another, but these threads you have been inclined to throw out kind of force the issue. And the personal attacks on other professed Christians, simply because they are embarrassed by these uninformed views showcases the 'spiritually immaturity' of those on the attack.

                    If you are afraid of knowledge, if your faith is too weak to allow reality to exist, be comfortable in it...but allow others of faith to exist within their comfort zone. There is nothing written that says believers must agree on every issue under the sun, that I've ever heard.

                  2. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                    MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I have no hopes whatsoever that this is a real attempt to understand my viewpoints. I'm fairly certain, in fact, that this is an attempt to find something else that you can consider wrong about them. That being said, you did ask, so I'll honestly answer your questions.

                    Concerning the going against the family aspect of Christianity. I'm not sure how your family works, but my family is honest and perfectly willing to point out when someone is being untruthful, illogical, prejudiced, uninformed, or just plain wrong. There is no family unity that insures that when one person says something stupid, he will be sheltered and protected in his stupidity.

                    For example, I recently did something blindingly stupid. Since I live in a small town and the result of my stupidity was observable to everyone in the town and, in fact, everybody driving past the town on the interstate, I received quite a bit of feedback on my stupidity. Those who were strangers (at least to the limited extent that anyone in a town this small can be strangers) made remarks like “It could have happened to anybody.”or “That was a bit of bad luck.” As the person got nearer to me in relationship, the comments moved to “Probably could have thought that through a bit more.” As my friends reacted the comments were more along the lines of “What the hell were you thinking?” and “Do you realize how dangerous that was?” My mother called me a dumb***directly. The truly telling sign, however, was that the man who loves me more than any human being on this planet could love another human being went into a multi-hour tirade that thoroughly explored the depths and breath of my stupidity, the possible causes, and the likely end results.

                    Now, who treated me more like family? Who loved me more?

                    Now, about Christ's commands to unity among followers. I think you might be taking some liberty. Firstly, as I am one of Christ's followers, I have to ask why you aren't unifying to me? I'm sure you'll come up with some reason that your views are right and therefore I must truly be the one in error, however, that requires JUDGEMENT. In short, you have to judge that you are truly on the right side and I am not. The only way for you to get around that and your OWN directive for unity, is to deny I am a Christian at all.

                    But I digress. Where I think you are taking some liberties, is that Jesus said we needed to be unified. He didn't say we needed to be a cult. Observance to group mentality without any deviation whatsoever is cult behavior. It really does boil down to if I think your shoes are ugly, and I say so, am I expressing a lack of unity with my Christian brothers and sisters?

                    We are united as far as we follow Christ. That doesn't mean we have to agree with the debate tactics, conclusions, and actions of every other follower in the world.  I promise you if you are being truly attacked or persecuted, I am right there with you. If a mob of angry atheists are chasing you with pitchforks, jump behind me, I'll protect you. Without thinking, every time.

                    If you are stating scientifically incorrect statements on a forum using bad debate tactics and pseudo-science that has already been discussed and dismissed in every arena involved, you're on your own.

                    Now about my love of the word of God and of the spirit. I know what the “spirit” is that you speak of. It's really not all that complicated. That little voice inside that guides you and directs you. The voice that reminds you of what the Bible says and what you should be doing. The voice that gives you deeper meaning when you are reading verses, that tells you how they apply to your life. The voice that you hear when you have a problem, and then there is suddenly an answer.

                    Yeah, I get it. I just don't use it as an excuse every time someone questions me on my actions. I don't roll around in the mysticism of it. I don't use it to prove I'm right and someone else is wrong. My relationship with the “spirit” is a private one. I feel no need to air it out in a public forum to prove my faith. It's not some membership card to show to prove I belong.

                    I also feel no particular need to use phrasing that insinuates that Christianity is some huge mystical event. It's not. To me, it's the simplest, easiest, non-mystical thing on the face of the planet. It's not a mystery. It's not some secret unfathomable to the world and no ancient wise-men are required for understanding. The theatrics are unnecessary and really do serve to drive those of us who have less propensity for drama away.

                    Now, whether I “seem” to have any love for the word of Christ, in this circumstance, would be more about you not being able to recognize something if all the bells and whistles aren't ringing than any real lack of commitment on my part. I assume if I started talking in tongues or screaming from the rooftops about how holy I am, that might help you recognize it. But since I don't need you, or anyone else but Jesus, to recognize it, I think I'll be OK.

                    Now, for my views on evolution. I said, more than once actually, that evolution is sound science. It is sound science. I can acknowledge that without it affecting my faith for a few reasons.

                    1. Science is not my faith. It's not anyone's faith. Arguing that the process was created by Satan because the process gives an answer that you, as a Christian, don't believe in is like getting mad that 3 times 222 is 666. The process, in this case, was followed. It produced a valid scientific result. Cope.
                    2. The question of how we got here is clear on the bottom of my list of spiritual questions.
                    3. The question of how we got here is clear on the bottom of my list of scientific questions.
                    4. It is, again, sound science. Lying about that kinda goes against my faith.
                    5. I don't know about you, but someone saying that something is other than I think it is doesn't really bother me. Even if all the experts agree. I move on. I don't try to get them to change their mind to prove I'm right.

                    But, that was never the question anyway. The question was whether the arguments you were listing were scientifically valid. They aren't. Period. I'm not going to stand behind an untrue argument just because it is better for the faith. To do so would completely trash the reputation of Christianity. If we have to make up things to trick other people into following Christ, then I don't think we're really getting the point of faith.

                    Now, why am I not a pushy used-car salesman for Christ? Well, first thing is because I find it to be repugnant to browbeat people to follow Christ. Once again, if we have to do that, we're missing the point. Secondly, because it's not effective. Seriously. The natural instinct of human beings to being nagged, conjolled, threatened and generally lectured to is to drive them away from the speaker and by connection, whatever the speaker is “selling”.

                    The evangelical religions have boasted numbers SLIGHTLY to their own benefit at a significant loss of reputation to the faith as a whole. If I see someone about to walk in front of a truck, I will warn them. I will not harass them to the point that they willingly jump to get away from me.

                    Now, just to address the strength of my personal faith (which is really none of your business) and my immaturity (which you have absolutely no clue about). This is not for any attempt to show myself better, not for any need to prove anything, but because I truly, sincerely wish that everyone would worry about their own level of faith instead of mine.

                    You decided to follow Christ because of night terrors, a sprained ankle and some headaches. Cool, that's your reason. I decided to follow Christ because my three year old son died horribly and the only way I will ever have a chance to see him again is in the afterlife. I also knew that if there was anyone, any human being, in the entire world that ever made it into heaven, it is him.

                    Following yet? Still doubting my commitment? Have kids of your own?

                    OK. Follow with me some more, He died 11 days after my ex-husband moved out while I was at a college class. He took every single thing I owned, emptied out the checking account and left me with no idea where my children were. My last words to my son were “Mama loves you, she'll be back” The next time I saw my son was surrounded by nurses and doctors who were uselessly doing CPR on him after over an hour of his heart not beating on it's own. My next words in his presence were “Let him go.”

                    During his funeral, no one held my hand.  Afterward, my mother drove me to a mental institution, dropped me off at the door and drove away. No one visited me. When they released me, I walked to my empty home that by then had every utility shut off.

                    I was kind of angry at the world at that point. My therapist, who was the only one speaking to me at that point (and then only because she was getting paid for it) decided she might want to give me a lesson on forgiveness... since it was pretty obvious that I was kinda bitter and had absolutely nothing to lose by taking revenge on the population in general.

                    So, it was the story of Christ on the cross... and forgive them they know not what they do. I read the Bible by the streetlamps outside of my house because I had no electricity. It was what I clung to. As I started trying to rebuild my life, it was the only road-map I had.

                    At some point in all this, it stopped being less about seeing my son again (although that will never fade completely) and more about how Christ was going to save my soul. Not from demons, or brimstone or any of that silliness which honestly doesn't frighten me anyway, but from myself. How he was going to change me to be more like him.

                    My faith has shaped EVERYTHING in my life since then. It has guided me every step of the way. It is the reason I pulled myself up instead of slitting my wrists. It is the reason I had the strength to be weak enough to recognize the gift that was presented to me in the form of my current husband when he appeared. It is the reason I committed myself to fixing the relationship with my other children and with my family. It is what gave me strength to finish college and start a new career. And yes, it is what guides me to do the charity work, that is exceptionally important to me, as a way to help others who are in as bad of shape, or worse, than I was when I found Jesus. It affects every single aspect of my life that is important to me.

                    So obviously, you can see where your opinions on whether or not I'm mature in my faith or whether I am a true Christian mean absolutely bugger-all to me. Attempting to persuade me to believe in what I believe to be untrue by “shaming” me about my “questionable” Christianity are utterly useless. I don't care if I'm part of any particular club. I firmly believe I was put on my path by Christ. Now, since I am surely not the first person you and your ilk have tried the bully tactics on, you might want to ask yourself how many “real” Christians would be swayed by peer-pressure. Would you? And who's work would be done if your tactics were successful?

                    With that, I won't be addressing the issue of my validity as a Christian again. Fling the accusations as much as you, and the others, like. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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                Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                All trees, except for evergreens, are dead (or at least dormant) in winter.  Are you a Spruce?  I see words and words and words and words from so many Christians on this forum.  Y'all go on and on about fruit, but we can never seem to shake any from your branches.

                Turn the other cheek.
                A kind word turns away wrath.
                Do not quarrel amongst yourselves.

                I never see that kind of behavior from the Christians here.  I also never see a lot of love, joy, peace, patience, etc.  Just a whole lot of combative, confrontational, divisive WORDS.

                1. Phyllis Doyle profile image95
                  Phyllis Doyleposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well said, Motwon2Chitown, I would like to add respect and acceptance to "love, joy, peace, patience, etc".

                2. lone77star profile image90
                  lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Bravo. Well said!

                  Love really is the answer.

              3. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What you don't seem to get is how unpleasant and belligerent you're being while claiming Christ. You think you make good arguments, but they are weak. She points this out to you, but instead of being humble and considering that your debate methods need work, you attack her personally. "You're either for us or against us" is such an archaic statement. There are gray areas everywhere, even in Christianity. wink

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                  CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  In saying "You're either for us or against us" Lybrah was pointing out that if someone is repeatedly coming against God's children, even to the point of bullying which she has in other forums, then she is not making herself for us and the message of Christ.

                  1. psycheskinner profile image80
                    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    She is also saying she can speak for God as to who is in or out.  Presumably making her more righteous than Jesus who refuse to do that sort of thing.

                  2. lone77star profile image90
                    lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    CJ, sounds like two egos beating on each other -- not two children of God.

                    Someone who preaches lies and calls their self Christian is not helping Christ. I agree, bullying is not good, but neither is being arrogant and lying.

                    We need to be humble to God and Truth, not church dogma. Church dogma is the first step. A literal reading of the Bible is only the first step. You have to take on the mantle of humility to God and ask for more answers. You have to read the Bible with the Holy Spirit.

                    If you do, I sincerely doubt if you will find anything in the Bible against evolution.

                    The evil ones who have perverted evolution have no doubt perverted Christianity, too. They love to be divisive -- pitting us against them. Stop it!

                    Be humble to God, not to your own ego and your own ideas.

                    My own ideas are merely a stepping stone on my own path toward Truth. I know that I have not yet arrived, but I'm on my way.

                    Stay humble to God and only to Him. That's the loving thing to do.

            2. lone77star profile image90
              lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, Melissa, good points, but I have experienced dozens of miracles and I know with a certainty that anyone walking across water is no guarantee of following Christ. The Pharaoh's priests had their magic, but Aaron and Moses defeated it because theirs came from God and not ego.

              After a lifetime of learning, I know that I have far more to learn.

              Lybrah is not being very loving, but in fact egotistical. That is her fruit.

              The Bible is not to be read literally, but spiritually. That's not as easy as it sounds. It has taken me a lifetime to find a few hidden scraps of wisdom in Genesis.

              I agree with you. Some people call themselves Christians, but they don't act like it.

              The problem is ego -- the very thing that Christ said we need to let die -- the urge to be "first." Humility (last) is the antidote.

          2. Don W profile image84
            Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            David Lack could confess that Jesus was the son of god. He was a devout Christian. He was also an eminent evolutionary biologist who received the Darwin Medal from the royal society for his work on evolutionary theory. Look him up. And here is a list of other scientific thinkers who also happened to be Christian. So I ask again:

            1) Why should I believe you are the "real" Christian and that David Lack and others like him are "fake"?

            2) If anyone can say they believe Jesus is the son of god including people sent to deceive, then doesn't that make such a confession useless as a way of determining if someone is a real Christian? Again how does anyone on this forum know that you are not the fake Christian? 

            3) Is god free to deliver messages via any means he chooses, including through those who do not believe in god? If so, how do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner, and others?

            4) Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?

            Direct answers to these questions would be much appreciated, thanks.

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            CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well said, Lybrah!

            1. Don W profile image84
              Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Would you like to answer the follow up questions I asked? I'm trying to see things from your perspective, but I'm really struggling. David Lack could confess that Jesus was the son of god because he was a devout Christian. He also received the Darwin Medal from the royal society for his work on evolutionary theory. So:

              1) Why should I believe you are the "real" Christian and that David Lack and others like him are "fake"?

              2) If anyone can say they believe Jesus is the son of god including people sent to deceive, then doesn't that make such a confession useless as a way of determining if someone is a real Christian? Again how does anyone on this forum know that you are not the fake Christian? 

              3) Is god free to deliver messages via any means he chooses, including through those who do not believe in god? If so, how do you know the holy spirit is not talking through psycheskinner, and others on the forum?

              4) Is it possible that the reason you were "instructed" to come onto this forum is so god could deliver a message to you?

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I know it isn't directed at me, but I'm going to answer you, since apparently none of the other Christians are smile

                1) If you believe in Christ and commit yourself to following him, you are a Christian. Period. The only fake Christians are ones pretending to follow Christ. And no, you can't tell them apart. No one can read their hearts except Christ. Anyone who presumes to have that ability better be ready to turn some water into wine.

                2) Again, no one knows except Christ.

                3) God is free to do just about anything he damn well pleases.

                4) Anything is possible because of point three. No one knows the mind of God. That's why it's good to actually listen and take everything in, before he gets more pointed in teaching you a lesson he wants you to know.

                1. Don W profile image84
                  Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for answering Melissa. Not sure why the others haven't. I think these are fairly straightforward questions. Hopefully they will follow your lead.

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                CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                To answer your question about the delay, I was delayed in answering because 1) my children needed me, and 2) I was awaiting direction from the Spirit (I may at times make a hasty response, but this is not really wise).

                As for your questions:

                1) I make no claims or judgments as to whether David Lack was a true believer/Christian or not. Even as a true Christian, he can be deceived about many things. "Let God be true and every man a liar". You will get full truth from God alone. The amount of truth and falsehood you get from people depends on how much time they invest in studying God's Word, how much time they spend with God, how much they speak on their own versus letting the Holy Spirit guide them, and so on.

                There are Christians (I believe even true Christians) who believe in and are deceived by evolution theory. Some simply haven't paid much attention to it, and hearing some truths (which it does have) are content to go along with it. Some simply practice a "watered down" Christianity or a "compromising" Christianity where they try to embrace both the Lord and the World. But God has admonished us in James 4:4: "Adulterers! Do you not know that the love of this world is hatred toward God? Therefore whoever chooses to be a friend of this world is an enemy of God." 

                Amongst the most zealous evolution-pushers you will find primarily atheists. Amongst the most Spirit-led believers, you will find mostly Creationists of some form or another. Now they disagree about some things, because God alone knows all things. I could be wrong about this particular point, but it might not be wise to insist we know the age of the earth since it is not clearly stated in the Word, and it looks as if there are too many unknowns for us to know it based on the Word (for example, is "day" literal, representative of a time period, or strictly symbolic?; how long were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and how long were animals roaming on the earth, before decay and death even entered the picture; etc.)

                2) In distinguishing true from false teachers, top amongst our methods for testing is whether they confess the name of the Lord Jesus or not. Jesus is truth, and anyone who denies the truth, is thus recognized as a false teacher. So we can easily determine a vast amount of false teachers. But, yes, even for the believer who is testing the spirits to find the true Spirit, he/she must distinguish between those that are true Christians and those that are wolves in sheep's clothing. We may examine other ways of "confessing" that Jesus is Lord, as "confession" of such involves more than just SAYING they are a believer. Jesus is the Word in the flesh; therefore, anyone who denies the Word (even if they say they believe in Jesus and are a Christian) is denying Jesus! We "confess" with our actions as well. The TRUE Christian will produce PRIMARILY fruit that comes from the Spirit, while the FALSE Christian will produce primarily that which comes from their father the devil, not God. So if, say, a priest claims to be God's but is regularly molesting children, and we know this is the devil's work and not God's ways, we of course doubt that person is a believer. We can closely examine the overall actions of the person (no, not slips here and there; our fleshly sinful nature will exist to a certain degree until Jesus's return when we are given our new spiritual bodies and made perfect; we are DECLARED perfect and righteous only because Jesus has taken our punishment onto himself and NOT because we are righteous on our own). We can also closely examine the reliance on the Word and the Spirit, and to a degree distinguish the true from the false believers. God alone may know with certainty who is the true believer, as Melissa stated, but believers are instructed to "test the spirits" so that we will not be misled. The unbeliever doesn't yet have any way to distinguish who is the true and who is the untrue believer, and it is really irrelevant for them because they do not believe the message anyway.

                3) The Holy Spirit is placed within true believers. Unbelievers, blinded by the deceiver, will not speak the words of the Spirit which they do not possess. If they become believers, then yes, the Spirit will speak through them also, but if at this time the Spirit is not within them, how can the Spirit speak through them? God always had his prophets and his children deliver the messages throughout the Word (and even a donkey would do, since the donkey and all animals are God's), but he NEVER delivered messages through false prophets or unbelievers. Now he may USE an unbeliever to accomplish his purposes. He could use unbelievers to discipline those of us who are his children (as many nations were used to discipline Israel). Though it wasn't my plan or intent, unbelievers on these forums have inadvertently helped me make a stronger case against evolution by clarifying some terms for me, so the truth of my message about evolution will not be lost in any inaccurate technicalities.

                4) This forum is only a small part of the plan God has revealed to me. It's proved very helpful thus far. God reveals what he wants to reveal to us; nothing more and nothing less. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:16). We don't need to fully understand God's mind and ways (that is beyond any person), but we do, like Jesus, need to be obedient to God's instructions given to us through the Spirit.

                1. Don W profile image84
                  Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for taking the time to answer. I have some follow up questions if you don't mind. Take your time in answering. I understand family commitments are more important than posting on here. Absolutely no rush.

                  1)    About David lack you said “Even as a true Christian, he can be deceived about many things.” If so doesn't that mean you, as a true Christian, could also be deceived about many things?

                  2)    You said “only god can know with any certainty” who is a true believer. Does that mean those on the forum you have judged not to be true believers could be true believers after all? In other words, could you be wrong about those people, simply because you are not god?

                  3)    If only god knows for certain who is a true believer, and even true believers can be deceived, is it fair to say that any of the following are possibilities:

                  A) You are a true believer, and the holy spirit is speaking through you;
                  B) You are a true believer, but you are deceived about certain things;
                  C) You are not a true believer, so the holy spirit is not speaking through you.

                  My question is: as I don't know you outside of this forum, I can't tell whether your actions produce "fruit that come from the spirit" etc. Therefore based on what I can tell about you from the forum, what reasons do I have to believe that A applies to you and not B?

                  4)    If you are unable to determine the reason god instructed you to come to the forum, is it possible that the lesson intended from this discussion, is for you? And is it possible that god has "used" this discussion to reveal the possibility that you are being deceived in some way in your understanding of the relationship between science and Christianity?

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                    CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    1) Yes, I can also be deceived about many things, but in this particular case God through his Spirit has already confirmed to me the work I am doing regarding the casting down of the imaginations (not the truthful aspects) within evolution theory, and the true declarations that God is our Creator and that he created us in his image, as it is written in his Spirit-inspired Word.

                    I always pay attention when I get a word from within God's inspired Word repeatedly, and God uses his Word to speak to me (he may speak to others slightly differently, but still coming from the Word and the Spirit). So, for example, when I was told at the detention center where I worked as suicide and crisis LPC that because of my curvaceous figure I should avoid wearing any dresses (even church dresses, mind you) and I should "cover" my chest with an oversized sweater, I was distressed because I had always made sure my dresses and skirts were proper length and no cleavage was showing, etc. I asked God about the situation, and within hours I was hearing OVER and OVER (from preachers on the radio, from randomly opening my bible) a verse he had NEVER placed in my path before: "Man looks at the outer appearance, but God looks at the heart." My heart was to help these kids in detention, and God was confirming to me that this was all he really cared about.

                    My posts on this forum are a small part of a larger movement to return God's people to the eternal truths that God is our Creator and we have been created in his very image. Last year some of us celebrated the first "Creation Day" on October 18 to make this declaration. As I was working on initiating "Creation Day", I was given another verse NEVER before given me as a message, and this time it came a whooping ten or so times! Over and over the verse came out of nowhere:  "I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut." God has called many of us to cast down the imaginations in the highly exalted places; some listen, some don't. He hasn't called everyone to because he doesn't have the same call for everyone.

                    Even in making the single declaration that whoever denies the Word denies Jesus, as Jesus is the Word in the flesh, I said something like this to God, "This may upset people; I can take it out, but if you want me to have it in, I need a sign and it needs to be that which is more unlikely to happen so that I will know it is truly you." Now about a week earlier my computer had suddenly stopped connecting to the internet and I planned to take it to someone to fix. During the time without internet, I was working on my writing, "He Who Forms the Mountains: Casting Down Imaginations within Evolution Theory with Eight Truths", from which the forums have come. So I said, "If it is your will that I state that whoever denies the Word may be denying Jesus, then without me taking the computer to be fixed, let the internet suddenly be working." And though it hadn't worked for a week or so, suddenly without being fixed by anyone, the internet was working and on!

                    2) I have not judged that anyone on these forums who claims to be a Christian is not one. It seems that my comments and the comments of one of my sisters are being confused. I understand why my sister has accused Melissa of not being a true Christian, but I have not actually made the accusation, and in truth I don't know if she is or not. Still, I question why she continually attacks me and other Christians, and makes so many points for atheism, and I have pointed this out to her. My first interaction with Melissa was her criticizing me for praying for someone. Does that mean she's not a Christian? No. But she has given a lot of reasons for concern.     

                    3) Generally speaking, the true answers are A and B. The true answer at the current time in our specific case at hand is A (I may have been confused about a couple of terms, etc, but not the overall work). The reason you have for believing that in the present case A applies and not B is this: I have spoken only truths from within God's inspired Word; you may verify them for yourself by looking in the Word. If I speak on my own, then you have no reason to believe me. But if through the Spirit I declare what God through his Word declares, then it really is not me you are believing, but the one who inspired his Word in the first place.

                    4) I have learned lessons here, but the eternal truths remain, and I will continue about my Father's business, as all his children are called to do in various forms. I don't know the full extent of God's will, and that may be because it would overwhelm a person as insignificant as me. I'll just continue to listen to his voice and follow the Spirit's lead.

          4. lone77star profile image90
            lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Lybrah, your language is divisive and not loving.

            "Again, she who is not with us is against us.  Period."

            Ken Ham once said on one of his videos, "Who do you believe, God or science?"

            Of course, his audience said, "God," but Ham had loaded the question with a false dichotomy. The divide is not between science and God, but between science and Ken Ham. It is between science and Ken Ham's interpretation.

            Ken Ham wants people to take the lazy interpretation of the Bible (literal), but Jesus said that the way to salvation is a narrow, difficult path -- not an easy, literal one.

            God created the reality that science studies. God and science are tight.

            It's the atheistic scientists and biblical literalists who are in the wrong.

            Those who say they believe in Christ, but who tell lies about salvation are not being "with Christ."

            You need to remain humble and hungry, because there is much more to learn. Learning will likely be a forever process. Don't ever think you know it all. So, stop being divisive and arrogant.

            Be loving and understanding.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Dangerous philosophy in Christ.
              People in this conversation have named God and his son "divisive" and "arrogant" in so many colorful renditions. It is written that THEY would. Truth is what matters. Humility does not lean to his/her own understanding. Humility says what Jesus said. In this case, "he who is not for me is against me." And what again was your response to the powerful words of Jesus???

              1. janesix profile image59
                janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Put ten Christians in a room, and you have ten interpretations of the Bible.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Put a Christian; an atheist; and an agnostic; you have only one interpretation.

                  1. janesix profile image59
                    janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Which would be what?

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It was written...possibly precisely, for that reason alone. It fits. It makes sense. It lives and transcends. We don't have to guess.
          The evidence exists. Yea? Or, nay?

      2. lone77star profile image90
        lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        CJ, transitional bones may be near impossible to find. Only a tiny fragment of any species is ever preserved well enough to be discovered later. Weathering, bacteria, decomposition and more processes destroy evidence.

        The fact that scientists are disappointed doesn't mean they've given up on evolution. You're drawing an unfounded conclusion. Non sequitur.

        Ego runs mainstream media and mainstream science. True. And Ego works for Satan. So, don't give in to ego by trying to be "right." Be humble. There's much more to learn.

        If evolutionary transitions take 5-20 generations -- an idea which can glorify God for His genius -- then you will likely never be able to find transitional bones. Likely less than 1% of all bones that existed are ever preserved. Species likely lasted several thousand times as long as their transitional periods. Theory, yes. But it would help explain the gaps.

        I read Walt Brown's book, "In the Beginning..." -- a treatise on Creation Science. It was full of illogical bunk. By using such illogical garbage, guys like Walt Brown are polluting the conversation about God. That doesn't help! That's arrogance getting in the way of salvation. Stop it!

        I would love to see everyone on this planet find salvation, but I'm beginning to sense that most Christians won't make it because they're too arrogant. In my own frustration, I find myself building up ego. We need to learn to back off from ego. Be humble and learn.

        And please don't tell me you know all of God's Truth. You don't. That fact alone should evoke humility. Be humble and learn.

        Too many Christians are spouting garbage, repeating tired old dogma about science that has been disproven or found irrelevant.

        The first law is love! Show it. Live it. Be humble and learn.

  6. MelissaBarrett profile image62
    MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago

    They were planted by Satan to make us doubt God.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, so what pg is THAT on?
      Lol!!!!!

  7. 0
    Emile Rposted 2 years ago

    Uncle.

    1. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Amen.

  8. 0
    CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago

    When it comes to that which is man-made, as the theory of evolution is, then it makes sense to be selective - take out the truth (microevolution) and toss the fantasy (macroevolution). Still, because "evolution theory" involves both micro and macroevolution, it isn't wise to say we believe in evolution theory (which implies the whole of it) if we don't believe in the proposed inferences and speculations within macroevolution.

    It is only that which comes from beyond us, from God's Spirit, as is the case with his Spirit-inspired Word, that we are not to be selective (though many are in these last days). That does not mean all scripture is literal (we have clear cases where it is not), or that all the translations are perfect. But just as God inspired the Word, so also he maintained at least the essential aspects of that Word through his Spirit - we have more ancient copies of the bible than other ancient texts, and (as noted in this forum) it is the best-seller EVER, and this is despite it being illegal in 52 countries and despite all the extensive efforts to get rid of it!

    "But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." Acts 5:39

    1. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It's absolutely amazing that you put the Theory of Evolution through extreme rigors of scrutiny, while you completely and wholeheartedly BELIEVE that SUPERNATURAL forces CREATED us.....by simply reading ONE book, written by primitive uneducated goat herders....claiming that they knew who the Creator was.  This is a serious case of willful ignorance.

      You have NO EVIDENCE of this God.....Yet you have no problem accepting it as fact.

      You have NO EVIDENCE that this nonexistent God created ANYTHING....Yet you believe.

      You have NO EVIDENCE of Satan.....Yet you keep using his name as if it's relevant in discussion.

      It's great that you question Evolution.  Science even encourages us to question EVERYTHING.  But that means that you must also question the beliefs that you have been brainwashed into believing as well....something that you have failed, to even consider doing.  You just find reasons to believe that this primitive fairy tale is true, while putting the Theory of Evolution through suffocating scrutiny.  It's time for a little honesty, don't you think?

      1. 0
        Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Can you prove that God doesn't exist?

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
          MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Can you prove that purple pregnant male unicorns don't?

          1. 0
            Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So you fight alongside the Atheists, yet claim to be a Christian.  You're either with us believers, or you're not.  Seems to me that you're not.  There is no middle ground or gray area, it's black and white only.  With us, or against us!

            1. 0
              CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Saw your similar post, Lybrah, after I submitted mine! Looks like the Spirit was leading us in the same direction!

            2. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Wow.  Sure glad God didn't leave you in charge of redeeming souls.  roll

              1. 0
                CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Motown2Chitown: I won't make a judgment as to whether someone who claims to be a Christian is or not, but I will confront a so-called Christian who continually comes against me and my other brothers and sisters-in-Christ. To illustrate the situation, (regardless of what your actual family consisted of) imagine for a moment your earthly sister continually spoke against you and your father, and continually stuck up for the neighbors who were trying to destroy your father. You would, no doubt, confront her about this. The person who is so often aligning herself with unbelievers and speaking against the believers on here, has also expressed other concerning opinions: she has expressed that she is not trying to please God, she has expressed that she is not trying to keep the unity of the Spirit, she has expressed that she does not even have a concept of the Spirit, she has expressed little knowledge of her Father's words, she has expressed more zeal for evolution theory than for her Father, etc. Do you see why she would be confronted?

                1. 0
                  Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  All of which is ultimately between her and her Heavenly Father-not her siblings in Christ.  You've no right to judge, IMO, and very strict commands from Jesus NOT TO.  Don't know, but my God is big enough to deal with his children all on his own.  He doesn't need me to supervise them.  I'd rather let someone else's sin slide (if that's how you see it) than to sin myself in an effort to sway, correct, or judge them.

                  But that's just me.  I see behavior from my Christian family in this forum that I personally find as appalling as that of militant anti-theists.  I hold myself to a standard that I believe has been set for me by Jesus.  I try to do what I believe he would do in any given situation.  I fall short occasionally, as do we all.  But one thing I try never to do is to set myself up as someone's savior or mentor.  I take my cues from God alone, not from everyone who follows him.

                  Personally, there is no one who knows the secret heart of another-save for God himself, and he has NEVER been shy about confronting me about ungodly behavior.  I'm sure he's been the same with you.  Why assume that you must take up the mantle for him with his other children.  Love them.  Be patient with them.  Enjoy life with them.  Have faith in God that he has saved them-because, you aren't able to do that. 

                  I am just grateful that he is God, and we're not.  No one would get into Heaven but us if most humans had their way.  Sad, really, because there are a lot of folks I'd love to see there.

                  1. 0
                    CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Motown2Chitown, you make many good points, but let me give you a little more detail of the situation. My first meeting with this woman was on someone else's forum (nothing to do with evolution), at which time she came against me. She has since then followed me around on forums, attacking me at every point. I confronted her on this. At one point, she came right out and said she "judged" me and was "better" than me. I personally have not made any judgments as to her salvation (please don't confuse my statements with anyone else's). Nonetheless, I have struggled with it and questioned why she is behaving as she is if she is in fact a Christian as she says. It is damaging that she is following me around, now very active in the forums I begin, defending that which is not from God and attacking biblical truths.

                    I haven't said anything about her going to hell (again, please don't confuse my statements with others). You state "No one would get into Heaven but us if most humans had their way." This is the polar opposite of my desire - I pray God has mercy on ALL, even those who have harmed me, and can barely stand the thought of ANY human in hell, which was created for the demons.

                    Because we will not have our perfected spiritual bodies until the day Jesus returns, we continue to stumble over our earthly sinful nature, and thus slip here and there. We all slip. If me or my sisters have said what we shouldn't have, then I apologize for both myself and for them. I believe with all my heart that some on here are my sisters and brothers; others I can't quite tell. Still others are my FUTURE sisters and brothers. And others, well...I pray mercy through Jesus' sacrifice even for them.

                    God bless you, Motown2Chitown.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Galatians 6:1-18

                    King James Version (KJV)6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.5 For every man shall bear his own burden.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, the same reason why almost everyone else here is being confronted, because they don't believe exactly the same thing as you.  And, like others here, she is not rejecting or denying facts about our world, but instead is honestly accepting them because they are undeniable facts.

                  1. psycheskinner profile image80
                    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So people should not be honest if they disagree with you, because they might be deemed enemies of Christianity.

                    Wow.

            3. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I said that... smile

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                None of you are God. I can tell by the avatars. wink

                1. 0
                  CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No one is claiming to be God. There is but one true God.

                2. Phyllis Doyle profile image95
                  Phyllis Doyleposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

          2. 0
            CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Looks like your on the wrong team again, MelissaBarrett, if you're claiming to be a believer. WHO are you fighting for - God or Satan?

            1. 0
              Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Good question, right!

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image62
              MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, right now I'm fighting irrational, pointless questions that are made with no logic and are meant to be appeals to emotion or ignorance rather than true discussions.

              I don't see either God or Satan in this thread. Let me know if they post.

              1. 0
                Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                God works through people, as does Satan.  You should know that, of course.  "She who is not with us is against us.  Amen."

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                  MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  ROFLMAO!

                  Yes, because my faith should be determined by peer-pressure. If every other Christian jumps off a bridge...

                  I don't have to agree with dishonest debate methods by other Christians.

                  1. 0
                    Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Right.  Stay on the bridge with the non-believers.  That bridge is headed towards destruction.

              2. 0
                CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The POINT is that God is BEYOND provability here on earth, so that the absence of proving him reveals nothing of his existence or lack thereof. Soon enough EVERYONE will see him coming in all his glory, and every knee will bow before him!!

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image62
                  MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The point is you can't prove that something doesn't exist. It's a cop out. Everyone knows that, it in no way proves that God exists that people can't prove he doesn't.

                  Unless you've figured out how to prove that pregnant purple male unicorns don't exist, their presence is exactly as provable as God, according to Lybrah's logic.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Said that too!!! smile

          3. 60
            Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You have to be careful Melissa in posting up what atheists post up...I can accept you believe evolution to be true and it will have nothing to do with how you came to accept Christ as your Saviour...Darwinian materialism is being slowly shown to be incorrect over at the Discovery Institute. Stephen Meyers Signature In The Cell and his latest book Darwin's Doubt has caused some scientists to rethink their objection to ID.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Never heard of Darwinian materialism - what is it and what does it have to do with evolution?

              1. 60
                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this
                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So someone is trying to ridicule what they don't understand and don't like by making up a new name?  One that only they understand the meaning of?  Or by trying to tie it to something irrelevant but undesirable?

                  Sad, but not unusual - it is a common tactic of the far religious right, trying to maintain ignorance throughout the world.

                  1. 60
                    Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    To be honest with you you've just uttered words but no critique of what this link says which means you accept DM by faith something you accuse Christians of doing

        2. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Such an absurd question does absolutely nothing in deconstructing my assertions....and shows nothing but SHEER DESPERATION.  Don't you know that this question has been asked in one form or another, time and time again, by believers.....in essence, pleading with us to give them the semblance of just a morsel of credibility? 

          How desperate!!!!

          http://timcooley.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/christian-logic.jpg?w=300

          1. 0
            Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not desperate, I'm just saying.  You can't prove God doesn't exist.  No little cartoon is going to help explain that one.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If the only argument that you can muster is to state something as absurd as that...then, yes it shows an outright desperate and PLEADING position.  How about this???:::>  YOU PROVING THE VERACITY OF YOUR ASSERTIONS....WITH EVIDENCE?  That would be the honest approach.  Your approach is the one most likely to be employed by someone that has a problem with integrity...and needs to play mind games.



              That cartoon is right on point about your ridiculous question.  Perfect analogy!

              1. 0
                Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Getitrite, you should change your name to Gotitwrong.

                1. getitrite profile image80
                  getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes.  Another method employed by those people with questionable integrity is to personally attack the messenger.  It appears that there may be some people who are just angry deluded "Christians" who become downright hateful if you don't allowed them to LIE for Jesus.

                  http://www.attorneyroberthill-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/personal-attack.jpg

                  1. 0
                    Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, did you create that just for me?

      2. 0
        CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        See my new forum titled "I know God exists because I KNOW God - The testimony of a believer", where you will find the reason I faithfully accept the truth of God and his Word, despite my "rigorous scrutiny" of evolution theory.

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          How can you even say that? "Rigorous scrutiny"? We all know you don't understand evolution, not one bit of it. yet you now claim rigorous scrutiny of it?

          Me thinks someones pants are on fire.

          1. 0
            CJ Simonelliposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            EncephaloiDead: I was replying to Getitrite, who has been questioning me and in one place questioned why I was putting evolution theory through "rigorous scrutiny" yet unquestioningly accepting God and his Word as truth.

            The lovers of evolution theory have been very helpful - I've revised my statements in the few places where it was needed, and now the greater truths will not be lost, but can better come through.

  9. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    MOTOWN2CHITOWN WROTE:

    All trees, except for evergreens, are dead (or at least dormant) in winter.  Are you a Spruce?  I see words and words and words and words from so many Christians on this forum.  Y'all go on and on about fruit, but we can never seem to shake any from your branches.

    Turn the other cheek.
    A kind word turns away wrath.
    Do not quarrel amongst yourselves.

    I never see that kind of behavior from the Christians here.  I also never see a lot of love, joy, peace, patience, etc.  Just a whole lot of combative, confrontational, divisive WORDS.
    -----------------------------
    Me   ...   Turning the other cheek  ???   Makes for a short debate on here doesn't it ? 
    "Do not Quarrel among ourselves" ??  doesn't that mean we shouldn't engage in debate with anyone who has already made up their minds and have a different opinion than our own ?
    i don't mean this comment argumentatively, Just curious;  Should a Christ minded person debate in these forums?

    Anyway ...   Seems to me that when we follow through most any train of thought all the way to the end, while considering  "All the evidence" ;...   we come full circle and are somehow sitting on the other side of the debate.table.

    1. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Hi, Jerami. smile

      I don't mean to imply that we cannot, should not, or aren't sometimes called to discuss and debate things among our Christian family-or with our brothers and sisters of other or no faiths.  I just think that if we are to be known as Christians by our love, we should spend more time showing that love than being concerned about reaching consensus on absolutely everything.  Some of my dearest friends are devout believers.  Others do not believe.  Whether we are in agreement or not about anything matters little at the end of the day.  That they know I love them (and that is evidence that God loves them) is what matters most to me.

      smile

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Brother or sister of no faith? Not everyone in the world is family. My brothers and sisters and mother have faith. Jesus said it like this, "they that do the will of my father".
        He also said, of all the stuff you get; get an understanding. And listen to the holy spirit; when you don't know.

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Whatever your take is on it, I believe that God is indeed the creator of ALL-making them no less his children than you or me.  As the faithful older brother in the parable of the prodigal son, I understand your reluctance to accept that, but every child matters to a parent-not just the ones who are obedient at every turn.  Also, never forget that there have been many times in the life of most believers-even AFTER they've come to know God-that their actions and words reveal anything but godliness.  I'm more concerned about those moments in my own life than anyone else's.  The same God who saved me wants to save everyone else-and he is the ONLY one capable of doing so.  I'm certainly not, and, sadly, neither are you.

          smile

          Peace.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Again, this is not about me or you. It is about truth. Jesus delineated who the family is. The children think like the father says to. It is not my decision as the faithful son. smile It is God's.
            Truth; that's it. Read what Jesus said.
            "...they that do the will of my father."
            People like to have their own opinions about what right is; and what should or should not be acceptable. But Jesus drew a line.

            1. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              And I'm so grateful that he did.

            2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              YOU are making it about you and us, by disrespecting everyone and telling us what to believe, that would be YOU. So, please don't lie and tell us it's not about you and us, when it clearly is.

              We are perfectly capable of understanding truth, we don't need you to tell us what that is. We are not little children, so don't treat us like little children.

              In fact, it is the non-believers here who know far more than you about your own religion than you do, so who are you to tell us anything?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                This is a discussion about evolution I think. Since it is based upon religion, this is my square. Yours too, obviously. smile
                My knowledge of scripture comes from intense study and God-given revelation of what it means and how it fits together. I have no key that no one else has.
                The mindset of scripture is spiritual. That's it; that's all. You must have the spirit (not ghost, but essense or mind) of God to understand it. Our own minds are SO finite.

      2. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Motown .. Good to see you are still spreading the love.
            It is difficult for me to write replies because every time I do, ...  dozens of pertinent things come to mind ALL  At  The  Same  Time.   
            And a simple thought suddenly becomes very complicated. Jesus said to love your neighbor as much as you do yourself. It is good to invite him to supper,  and love him weather  he comes or not.    I do believe that Jesus told his disciples to go and spread the Good news among their families and friends. I do NOT believe they were told to go find all the unbelievers they can find and convert them.  They weren't attempting to expand their circle of influence. It happened naturally when outsiders saw the love they had for each other and their God.. Converts were converting themselves.  I'm not saying people are bad for attempting to debate their faith on the internet. 
        I'm just saying this type of debating is not the way they were doing it for a 110 years after Jesus died, 

        When we do debate we should remember foremost,  Jesus said, Love our neighbors as we much as we love ourselves.  ... No Exceptions.
        I think Jesus died on the cross for man kinds sins ...   No exceptions.                                                   
           I can only put my beliefs out there for all to see ....but I can't change any ones minds about this through debate.

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You have my agreement there.  smile

          I love to discuss, but I'm not big on debate as a rule.  And, I always believe that if a change is to be made, God can and will take care of it.  smile

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If this is true, we should follow this train of thought through much further when reading scriptures. This should be the perimeters upon which our philosophies  should be contained. When they don't, I don't believe they they are truly the teachings of Christ. Many Christians act as if all of Paul's teachings conform to Christs teachings when in my opinion they don't.

            1. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Agree with that too.  smile

              We're on a roll.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How do the teachings of Paul differ from those of Jesus?

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I think ?  ....  "Maybe" your question makes my point??  Paul isn't Jesus, yet most Christians act as if his words came out of Jesus's mouth.  It is a trick our minds play on itself. Just because his letters are included within the same binder as those letters which are said to have been written by the disciples which make direct references as to what Jesus said. We assume that Jesus would have said these things also.  We give validity to Paul as if we are giving it to Jesus???
                Jesus preached a message gathering the sheep while Paul's seems to instill diversity? If we are following Jesus, the words in red are all we need. If we are following Paul, be honest with ourselves and follow Paul.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Paul's message was allowed into the book that was inspired by God??? He got a gold star from our king. smile
                  Paul instilled diversity? But he let the people know that Jesus would be of no advantage to the circumcised. That seemed to place Jew and Gentile on a level surface. However, that does not seem to make a big difference.  Can you give me another example of the differences in their teaching. I've heard that before, I just never get a straight answer about said differences. Please help.

                  1. Jerami profile image78
                    Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Just something to think about.  In 96 AD John received the Revelation.  A revelation about a religion rising  to power that sounds so good that it deceives even the elect calling things good which are evil and calling evil things good. Taking a truth and corrupting it just enough to lead the righteous believer astray.
                    Somehow prophesy seems to "Always" be perceived as futuristic as in the case of the Jewish Messiah.  How do you think the deceiver is going to go about fulfilling this prophesy if it hasn't already been fulfilled approx 240 years after John received it. Compare the things which are said to be prophetic to those things which have already happened. 
                    When it comes right down to it, ... We have all been deceived according to Gods plan. Let not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing.

                    edit   gotta run to Wally World and get some glasses so I can see. back in a bit.

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                    Robertr04posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Just a thought. Have you ever taken a close look at Paul? No offense meant. In Acts 13:1-9 there were five men doing the service of the Master and Holy Spirit of  the Father. Two were separated for a special purpose(1-5)...we learn one of these men was Sh'aul. The Grk. text writes his name Saulos: G 4549. We learn that this is the Grk transliteration of the Hebrew word Sh'aul (shah-ool) H7586. In verse 7 of Acts 13, we learn a Roman, a European, who was named Sergius Paulis (paul for short) of the Grk origin Q3972. The Roman 'Paul' was with the proconsul, he was learned, and he wanted to learn to the Father (vs7). It is written that Sergius Paulus actually sent for Barnabah and Sh'aul, but a magician named Elumas tried to turn them away so that this European would not learn of the Father... then something strange happens, vs 9 reads, "But Saul, who is also called Paul, being filled with the Spirit, looked at him"...That is how the 1611 kjv reads as well as many translations, but the 'Scriptures' left this part out...We see that Sh'aul and Paul were two different people...but not after Acts 13. Sh'aul (G4549) from this point on is referred to as Paul (G3972). Why would they do this? The true Grk reads "Saulos de o kai Paulus". This translates: "But Saul and Paul"...showing they are two different people. There are absolutely no records of name change or a surname used for Sh'aul. Knowing that Sergius Paulus was truly European and not Yahudy (Israelite), we have to ask ourselves about all of the letters of 'Paul' written to other Europeans. Was this truly Sh'aul? The Grk does not say it was Sh'aul, the Grk says these letters were written by Sergius Paulus. Many of Pauls letters seem like he is double-minded because many of his letters may have been conversations between Sh'aul and Paul; Sh'aul trying to teach this European the ways of the Israelites and Paul offering a different approach to the Father. There are other possible scenarios as well, but to make a long story short, The Messiah is our leader, our Master. If John, Saul, Paul, or anyone says anything about Turah being a curse or we no longer should do certain things, it is of no consequence to us. Messiah said, "If you want to see life, keep the commandments". This is stronger than a Roman who wrote a letter to his people. IMHO he has and still is leading many astray. Shalum

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                  Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Paul you must remember was confronted by Jesus on the Damascus road..he was accepted by the disciples and his work of bringing the gospel to the gentiles was immense. He isn't liked by liberal Christians because of his stand on immorality like homosexuality which in todays secular and atheistic 
                  world is anathema to them

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It is my belief that over time the radical muslims,  like al Queada, will be removed by mainstream Islam as the people become more civilized and less willing to be controlled and hurt by those doing it in God's name.

                    The same is true of Christianity.  The civilized world's moral structure has advanced beyond that of the radical Christians; they will either catch up or cease to exist.The immorality of things like the bigotry against gays will not be tolerated forever.

                    There is nothing new in this; Christian morality has always revolved around control, not right and wrong, and it typically lags that of the general population in improving.

                  2. Jerami profile image78
                    Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I remember reading where Paul said he was confronted by Jesus on the road to Damascus.  I don't recall reading anything in the Gospels where Matthew, Mark,Luke or John mentioned this man named Paul. Maybe there is?  If any of the apostles wrote about Paul I would really appreciate it if someone would tell me where it is at.  I know that in the books which Paul wrote, he was highly praised.

  10. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Study. That's all it takes.

  11. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    I believe the above comment is especially true when we consider the probability of inaccurate translations of older writings not to mention the effects that interpretation of those written text  had upon how they were translated. 
    I believe that if there is a devil, he would have ben doing all that he could in influencing the interpretation of these old text then influencing how they were translated.
    In conclusion I must agree with you in reading the words written in RED. I think Jesus was attempting to simplify everything which came before. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Judge not that ye not be judged.  Have faith in these things as a little child.  BUT for the last 1600 years we have been justifying to ourselves when and how we ca make exception with His teachings.    So, in the end,  I don't really know what to think? Just be honest with myself about myself, ... I can't even do that properly.  Until I can, I shouldn't attempt to fix anybody else. Cause ....  I keep making a mess out of it when I do.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Honesty about self to self is generally the thing that brings one to God correctly. The bible says that we must serve in spirit and truth. The truth about ourselves can be startling. But it takes that "death" to be able to form the ear to hear. When your spirit loudly listens to the self, the messages of God are crowded out. Spirit and flesh consistently struggle.
      The messages of Jesus are plentiful. Love one as you love yourself....
      Would you want to be lied to? Would you want to be fooled? Would you NOT want someone to show you the way if you were lost? Me neither. I'm going from the bible. The only truth I know.
      If I step out of line, I trust that the spirit will guide me back in. The scriptures require a renewed mind. The mind of Christ. I cannot speak for Muslims or anyone else; they have the mind of their prophet.

    2. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely beautiful, Jerami.

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      Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this
      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Don't get me wrong; I am a theist!   
        i read the article, and only one question comes to mind.
        The article states that no significant errors were made back to the original writings; What date can can be attributed to these original writings? The oldest  Ink to parchment.
        EDIT
        A person can believe a creator did appear to Abraham and question religion and the written words in a book which after all, was established by the Roman Empire, which was the fourth beast as described in the book of Daniel.    ???   The fourth beast is the fourth kingdom, it will have 10 kings and then another king will rise to power replacing three after the the first ten.  The 14th emperor was in power when the Hebrew Nation was scattered through out the Roman Empire. Scattered to the four corners of the earth.  The word earth was translated from Hebrew word not meaning the four corners of the "planet".

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          ...with all thy heart, thy soul, and thy mind...
          The followers of God are not looking under his skirt. wink
          Trust...

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If an entity appeared in front of you, and announced he was the god of Abraham, the God which you have proclaimed your loyalty, would you believe it?

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It depends. I'm pretty sure I would know a fake.

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                i sure would hate to think that I had rejected the real one believing he was a Fake.  That is what the Hebrew Nation did.

    4. 60
      Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The New Testament is the most accurate of ancient texts
      http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

    5. 60
      Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You say you are a Theist then say " if there is a devil" now unless Jesus was a liar or having hallucinations Satan is very real and Jesus was tempted by him....the Pharisees accused Jesus of doing his work have no doubt he exists and his evil hand is all around the world and will get worse

  12. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    Would you want to be fooled? Would you NOT want someone to show you the way if you were lost? Me neither. I'm going from the bible.
    ======================
    me
      We can love someone and not appreciate spending time with them.  When someone does me wrong, I don't have to like it!
    If a loved one hits me on the toes with a hammer every time they see me, I'll keep my feet under the table every time I see them coming. I don't have to judge them (They are evil) They probably think hey have a good excuse for hitting me on the toe with a hammer. They think I deserve it!  They may even think they are doing it with love??  Point is we ALL have our own excuses for doing the things we do.
        Do I have the right to go to that persons house to tell them to quit hitting my toes with a hammer?  Or should I wait till they come to my house, hammer in hand?   And what constitutes my house

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Now is a good time to practice the preach. smile ... What constitutes a hit with a hammer?  The truth? Or a pretty lie?
      What constitutes one's home-base? Who came to whom in our scenario? Am I offended? No. I hope that you are not.
      I am not following you correctly if encouragement is your goal. smile but it is obvious that you do know what truth is. Are you willing to say???

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        OOPS   been house cleaning instead of sitting in front of computer ... I Got ADD I guess.
        In my story...  the hammer represents any wrong behavior of another as perceived by me. And my home represents my immediate environment.  And I was attempting encouragement.  The only understanding of what truth is as that which pertains to me. And I have little understanding of that.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The bible can help one to have a clear picture of the total self. That is why people treat it the way they do. Some don't like their truth enough to hide from it. They write in a prettier picture in favor of self. What people fail to see is that truth really doesn't hurt that much if you give in to it. Truth positively changes us.
          Truth is relative to the person in some sense. But there are fundamentals. "There is one way," is just one of them.
          Jesus stood firm on many things. He expects the same of us.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think it is that and much more. I may be as crazy as a loon, but I think there is a puzzle in it.? Most people read it and think they have found "the" answer. If we search further we discover that we didn't.  We read something that at first glance seems to contradict the conclusions we have arrived at.        Further contemplation reveals that our understanding was wrongfully influenced by misinterpretations which we hold onto lying at the foundation of whatever belief system we think we have.                      Many of these verses simply are not saying what we thought they did.  When we finish this journey for the whole truth, we find ourselves back where we started. 
            Now, all of this is and the following is just my opinion.
            Love our neighbor as ourselves (cause we are all interconnected).
            Love the Lord our God with all our heart (cause we are interconnected).
              In the end, To deny the relativity of all things is denying the fullness of ourselves.                                (or something like that?)

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If we were interconnected, we would have the same thoughts. We would serve the same God. And we would be judged together. smile
              We are created with no strings. Only a word.
              We each have a responsibility toward that word given. We may take whatever route we fancy. But one road leads to life eternally. If you believe as I do...
              God is not concerned with the rules that we came up with to show our solidarity to what we consider our greater good. He allows us to know that we cannot get it right without his thoughts in mind. We don't know enough to make our own rules. Ask Eve.

  13. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    @ Dave36 ....   Don't know if I agree with all of those "words" which are written above, Maybe I do and maybe I don't ??
    I will say I understand what you are getin-at.   
    I look at it kinda like ....  each and every one of us are mini-universes in and of ourselves. Seven billion mini-universes right here on earth.
    We are'n even fully aware of our skin, we actually know even less about the infinite number things which are happening inside of our skin. There are an infinite number of things happening on the outside of our skins that we know little about.
        In a manner of speaking, ...  our consciousness understands as much about our own mini-universe as our skin does about its place in its own reality.  Our skin is fully aware of everything that it needs to know, I think it does, Maybe?

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I've always enjoyed the simple wisdom in your words Jerami.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        thank you for the putting a smile on my face first thing this AM.
        i enjoy your depth of thinking a bunch.

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I think its a marvelous reason for why we need to look outside of self for the truth. There are an infinite amount of possibilities on the inside. We do not understand the repercussions of many of those inside thoughts. Ask Eve.
        Our skin responds. If we eat bad, it shows. If we touch something bad, it shows. If we are not bathers, it smells smile
        No lotions?  It flakes. I once went through a 13+ year period where my palms and soles would break out in these horrible blisters. It went from a break out of one or two to a break out of hundreds. Pus and blood and itch beyond belief and cracking and lesions. And gloves and socks. No doctor could help. One day, after a series of events, I realized during constant prayer that my problem was the consumption of wheat. For many years I cried and was embarrassed and thought I would die with an unknown flesh-eating disease that no one knew about. The doctors gave me steroid creams and pills. God gave me the solution. smile

        1. Dr Lamb profile image60
          Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Which is it then, outside or inside? It was your brain that gave you the idea that wheat was the problem.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No way!!! wink it was my brain that sent me running to doctors who study this stuff; took a few looks and samples; and wrote prescriptions for potentially harmful materials that did NO good.
            When I relaxed and allowed myself a talk with outside forces that live in me (because I asked and accepted) I received the answer. Fast... a biblical admonition. Within days my hands and feet got better.  Soon; Bingo!!! smile
            The Lord knew all along. My process was good for me. He knew that too. No more green, brown, red, AND yellow pustules that crack and itch to infirmity. And I KNOW who to attribute that to. Not me...

            1. Dr Lamb profile image60
              Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So you can ask God any question and receive the answer?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No. Some secrets he tells no one. Some things you are not prepared to know. Some desires are trivial; unnecessary; and/or bad for you and or others nearby. We ask, wait, and trust unconditionally. God is not put in place for us; we are put in place for him. We must be followers of him. He MADE the "big picture". smile
                He told us to ask, but not to ask amiss. Oh! And our answer should not be prearranged by us. He very often beats around the bush. Lol wink

                1. Dr Lamb profile image60
                  Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  See what happens when people make claims that God helps them out. They can never back it up because they can't get any information that there brain doesn't already have.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Did you hear me say that even doctors (3 of them) who studied skin and made their life's work, healing were baffled???
                    Not one of them said, "it may be something you're eating..." My own brain looked to them; at one time waiting 3 months for an appointment. smile I had no clue. But I thought it was serious and that my hands and feet would rot away.
                    My God is responsible for my healing. You can give me the credit all you want. But I know. It is backed up by experience.
                    I listened to the spirit of God; and was healed.

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                    Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Now even as a Christian I would have been suspicious of people claiming that God spoke to them until it actually happened to me..it wasnt an audible voice but a silent one inside my head..The reason for this is to long to post up here but it was so remarkable it really confirmed to me that God exists.

            2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So, you stopped taking the meds prescribed to you and afterwards heard voices.

              Sounds like God alright. wink

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You're bad... smile but to answer your question: NO, I always heard the voice! There's only one. He kept me sane during my ordeal; and he brought me through it without a scar. And that's just one testimony. I've got many more.

  14. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    Cgenaeaposted
    If we were interconnected, we would have the same thoughts. We would serve the same God. And we would be judged together. smile
    We are created with no strings. Only a word.
    ===================

    We are all inner connected in ways we can't see;  as is every apple on the apple tree, and yet every apple are individual in itself. Even after is it is taken from the tree. There is a connection between us and our grandparents one which we can almost see but not quite. There is a galaxy 100 light years away which we are in a sense connected to. It that galaxy didn't exist, our galaxy would be in a different position in the universe. As Einstein said , everything is relative. (in ways we are and always will be unaware).
       So,  in my opinion ...  like it or not, we are all interconnected.  personally, I like it like that.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interconnection is a tricky term. We all have blood, brains, flesh; but it ends there. We are independent but SHOULD be interdependent. God is working that out.
      Interconnection breeds common ground. But as you know, we have no common threads. We all think differently. We each arrive at our conclusions differently. Our experience largely dictate the way we put our thoughts together. But the mind of God is a potential common thread for whosoever will.

  15. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    "I come so they may have life, and that more abundantly."
    "My yoke is easy, my burden light."
    "Not one jot nor tittle shall pass from the law (listen closely) until all be fulfilled." smile
    "Keep MY commands" emphasis mine smile
    "You can't stone her, you aint right!" wink
    Jesus gave them the right mind concerning the law. He told them how to believe about the laws.
    "Why you washing the outside of the glass for? Your inside (out of the abundance of the heart; the mouth speaks) is filthy!" "It's not your intake that's messing you up; it's your output!".
    Paul knew what that MEANT. That's why he made the cut. The bible is protected by the one who wrote it...

  16. 60
    Tributemanposted 2 years ago

    @wilderness so Craig who has debated your top atheists on this and defeated their arguments hasnt convinced you now why am I not surprised about that

    1. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Convinced us of what? I think it would be crazy to think forums can do anything more than help people understand an accept each other a bit better.  I know that is my goal.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      ??!!  All I asked for was one bit of solid evidence.  Not faulty logic.  Not false facts.  Not opinions.

      Just one observational, repeatable, testable fact.  It's called evidence in the world of science.

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        Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Do you believe life came from non life if you do give me the evidence do you believe the Universe came from nothing give me the evidence give me the proof...if as an atheist you say God doesnt exist give me the evidence give my the proof

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I believe in God, but I have never seen a single shred of evidence that he exists.

          Believe me, I've looked. And will keep looking.

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            Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps you should read about Jesus He claimed to be God
            http://www.newmediaministries.org/Scien … ved_S.html
            Im a Brit its late and im definitely off to bed nite

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I have, thank you.

              Have a good night.

      2. 60
        Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.newmediaministries.org/Scien … ved_S.html
        Im of to bed its late here in the UK nite

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Probably too late (been to dinner) but g'night.  Sleep well.

          1. 60
            Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Its now 8am here in the UK hope you enjoyed your dinner...i look at things like this...you and i have free will i have chosen Jesus you have not...we just have a short span of conscious time between two points birth and death...what we choose and how we live will in the end be for all eternity.. So if you are right its eternal blackness if Im right eternal judgement.God I know would want you and other atheists to avoid both so do I.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You want us to wager that God exists? You want us to live a life of delusion and lies in a hopes God won't be able to see through our own lies? What if I asked you to believe in Peter Pan just in case he's real?

              Further, you better hope that if the off change God does exist you've got the correct version of God. You've got one change in over 4000, so good luck

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                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Way off beam mate plenty of superb apologists out there  making the case that Jesus is who He said He was...even convinced the one time atheist CS Lewis who you have to admit intellectually is slightly ahead of you and Wilderness...also if you want me to put a list up of highly intelligent people who believe in God I will...plus the new Pew research now puts Christian believers worldwide at 2 billion you atheists have quite a way to go to catch up in fact worldwide you might be in decline

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                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Its nothing to do with Pascals Wager that isnt possible..unless you are convicted by the Holy Spirit belief in God isnt possible...if its delusion you are talking about then atheism is definitely the way to go...you believe the Universe came from nothing yet it all points to being designed.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but according to science, there is no indication whatsoever the universe was designed, quite the contrary. Science shows the universe in it's current state came about as a result of the physical laws with no design being incorporated at all.

                  A designed universe is only an extension of Genesis and creationism, which is the real delusion.

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                    Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Lol another atheist who talks but doesn't give any evidence for why you think the Universe was uncaused give me your evidence

              3. 60
                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this
                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That was humorous. The thing is without God you can't make any sense of the world, but guess what? I can, and to me the universe makes far more sense without any God.

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                    Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Im still waiting for this The Universe makes more sense without God show me the evidence Ive linked you to quite a few especially the foremost apologist Dr Craig who has been wiping the floor with your top atheists on this but I guess you still have to back your men/women even when they get stumped

            2. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No, you have chosen a story written thousands of years ago about an ET from another universe that made this one.

              And if you're right, AND if the story tellers got it right, AND you chose the right story out of thousands AND if the ET didn't lie AND if you scrupulously followed directions all your life, you will be rewarded with the worst possible torment - eternal life.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It's funny how eternal life sounds like a great idea as a kid, but when you are an adult you realize how receptive and boring it could become especially with eyes to see and ears to hear and mouths to communicate with.

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                  Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Im afraid I have to move on...ive debated my points with the atheists here and hope one day you will be convinced that only Jesus is the answer He is for me a one time atheist....I will now listen to Jesus words in Matt 10: 14
                  And whoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

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                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Its funny as soon as you become a Christian eternal life is an incredible thought in fact all the other Christians Ive met feel the same way it appears only atheists look on it as a boring outcome

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                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Wilderness Ive given you excellent links that you've rejected but noticed you didn't critique their points....you've never answered my points about the Universe coming from nothing and how life came from non life show me the evidence!

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                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                http://carm.org/atheist-says-there-no-evidence-god
                Speak later ive got a small recording studio cant spend all of my time convincing atheists their on the wrong track see ya!

              5. 60
                Tributemanposted 2 years ago in reply to this
  17. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Me personally...??? I started realizing some inconsistencies in biblical teaching that totally dismissed the actual words of the bible.
    I begged through tears to receive the message as intended. I pleaded with him to remember that he promised that if I (or anyone else for that matter) asked for wisdom, he would give it to me. I prayed that he would show me what I needed to know. I prayed that he would please help me to grow in him. I prayed that he would not leave me.
    And the rest is history...

  18. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    The bible is so true. Most "Christians" do not believe that. And it becomes evident by the way that they speak.
    The bible is the place that we learn about Jesus. When we follow him; we seek his will by knowing and doing what he said. Humility, something else quite lacking in these forums, is necessary. There is no book but the one (composed of 66) that allows a true relationship with God. Splitting up the personally acceptable verses from the personally red-lighted verses is faithful??? No.
    Solid adherence to the truth that God said it is is what is required. Infallible is not human. Obedience is possible only through knowledge of what he desires. What he desires is written.
    You cannot disregard truth and be free as one who follows Jesus.
    What is true must be confessed. We cannot tear useless pages from the book. We must agree with what is true. We must have faith that it is truth so we don't miss the lines that are drawn. "What seems right to man...(I forgot the rest)." God thinks differently.
    Sorry we have no "shining examples" but Jesus; just truth...

    1. Dr Lamb profile image60
      Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
      If you are not adhering to the words above you are just as hypocritical.

      "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

      "If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away."
      What he expects is right there before you. If you are preaching the bible then walk the walk. Or is your God the one that allows you to still do as you please? If funny how people tend to get the God that helps them continue to do as they please.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The spirit of those words is probably way far from your understanding. I have gouged out my eyes and thrown them away many times. And I've lost all of my hands.
        Right now, handling serpents and moving mountains. Literally.  wink

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It really works well to change the meaning of biblical writings, doesn't it?  LOTS more palatable when they mean whatever you wish them to say.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You'd have to get to a mirror to find that answer. wink

        2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          lol Yes, we are unable to understand the written word unless we filter it through rose colored glasses.



          It sure is funny what believers will say, nothing is left to integrity and honesty.

          “Lying to ourselves is more deeply ingrained than lying to others.”
          ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You in a mirror???

      2. aka-dj profile image79
        aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The same guy said, "love the Lord, your God with all your, heart, soul, mind & strength. And love your neighbor as you love yourself."

        When you have made the commitment to live by these, then come back and give your advice.

        1. Dr Lamb profile image60
          Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, I get it. She can preach all she wants whenever she wants, but I can't do the same. You do understand that it's my love for her that is making me bring this up. Jesus was very clear and I want her to reach her potential and not burn in hellfire as described by Jesus.

          So how come you haven't given her the same advice? "When you have made the commitment to live by these, then come back and give your advice."

          It's funny really. I point out that she behaving like a massive hypocrite as she doesn't even try to follow the words she preaches and you turn and tell me that I don't have the right to give advice, why? Because I myself don't follow scripture. I am at least honest about it.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            My hypocrisy is manufactured by the spirit of something else. I have not advised anyone on how poorly they are doing. I quote scriptures.

            1. Dr Lamb profile image60
              Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              And I quoted scripture as well. I believe you have manufactured this spirit that you say directs you, as he would have directed you in the direction that is described in the bible. It's not may way, I personally don't care if you follow the word of Jesus or not, but since it's important to you that the rest of us do, so perhaps you should too.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Just telling truth. Do with it as you please.
                The Holy spirit is not a he; it is the essence of God (or maybe even reality is a good term). It is like a knowledge that encompasses you. A definite presence that guides your decision making processes (or the mind).
                It takes more than quoting scriptures for the Word to be conveyed. It takes a wisdom that most people don't have. If Jesus meant that each time you have a problem with your eyeballs, that you should pluck them out; none of his people would see.
                He was no dummy. He came because the flesh was incapable. He knew that. He gave us the info we need to make it.
                Have the right mind.
                That which was in Christ Jesus. "But Lord however will we know HIS mind???"
                It is written...

                1. aka-dj profile image79
                  aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  If, indeed, you welcome correction, then, I submit to you, that the Holy Spirit IS in fact, a person. Not merely some force.
                  I don't have the time now to list scriptures, but suffice it to say, that He is always spoken of as a person, with attributes of a person, rather than just some impersonal force, or power.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks!!! smile Biblical correction is always welcome, expected, and clung to.
                    I have always been under the impression that spirit is spirit.

                    James 14:15...
                    “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.

                    So a Person lives within me??? Sounds weird.
                    Whenever you have time; we should discuss it.
                    I love each opportunity to grow and I appreciate spiritual check.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                          
                    Printer version

                      Matthew 16:21-23

                    (21) From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. (22) Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" (23) But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
                    New King James Version   

                    Like Peter, we could be motivated to believe or disbelieve something, accept or reject something, say something or keep silent, depending on the circumstance. Additionally, we may have no reaction at all at the moment of communication, but the thought is stored and available for later use or supplementation. It is entirely possible for a person to go through his entire life as a pawn of Satan and never know it.

                    This situation reflects a usage of what the Bible's writers term "spirit." Spirit is the English translation of the Hebrew ruach (Strong's #7304), in the Old Testament and the Greek pneuma (Strong's #5141) in the New. It can literally mean "a current of air," "breath," "blast," or "breeze." However, when used figuratively, it indicates "vital principle," "disposition," "the rational soul," etc., or an invisible super-being such as God, Christ, an angel, or a demon. Whether used literally, as with "wind" or "breath," or figuratively, as indicating God, angel, or demon, it describes something that is invisible and immaterial and at the same time powerful, even a thing of considerable power. The foremost elements of spirit, then, are invisibility, immateriality, and power.

                    E.W. Bullinger remarks in Appendix 9 of the Companion Bible:

                    The meaning of the word is to be deduced only from its usage. The one root idea running through all of the passages is invisible force. . . . [i]n whatever sense it is used, [it] always represents that which is invisible except by its manifestations.

                    He also shows that ruach is used in nine different ways in the Old Testament, while pneuma is used fourteen different ways in the New Testament.

                    In John 6:63, Jesus says, "It is the Spirit [which] gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." Here is a clear example of the figurative use of "spirit." Words are the symbols used for communication; they are received into our minds through sight, as when reading, or sound, as when hearing. But once in the mind, nothing material is packed into our brain. Words - and thus the concepts they carry with them - are spirit because they are immaterial, invisible, and of considerable power, depending on how we use them. Thus, we can receive "spirit" in the form of words or concepts from a spirit being. In this case, it is in reality "thought transference" because no sound is heard through our ears.

                    Just because one is close to Christ does not eliminate the prospect that a demon will communicate with and through him. As seen in Matthew 16:22-23, Peter did the speaking, but Jesus spoke directly to Satan, naming him as the source of Peter's outburst against God's will that Jesus should suffer and die. Without Peter's recognizing it, he permitted himself to be a conduit for Satan's will. The disciple's "good" intention was against God's will, and Jesus thus judged it to be evil.

                    This was my daily verse from theberean.org
                    My email must come before the site posts; I could not post the link. I copied from email.
                    However, amazing how this happens right? smile its like someone watching over me... very often, a word that I have discussed here will come via thebearean.org or thedailyword via email also; the very same or next day! It amazes me. Maybe their Chief joins the forum. smile
                    So what do you think about my email?

                2. Dr Lamb profile image60
                  Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Blah blah blah blah. All talk no action. Should I quote more scripture?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Sure!!! But lack of holy spiritual presence may make you to quote them without properly understanding your speech. smile but I will offer as much assistance as I can.
                    I'm ready.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          smile

        3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The whistling of that kettle is deafening.

          Regardless of who said those words, the same person would never say anything to the contrary, correct?

          For example, they would never say anyone is going to hell if they don't worship an love them, correct?

          1. aka-dj profile image79
            aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            speak English, please.
            What is this question supposed mean?

  19. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I KNEW SHE HAD AN ANGLE... I just could not put my finger on it...!!! Her club is recruiting...
    But as Grandma always said, "When someone SHOWS you who they are; believe them.
    This one is adamant...
    Greater is he that is in us... Amen

  20. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Thanks. I hate argument. smile

  21. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Scripture rightly divided takes faith to know that it is right. And humility enough to speak it even whilst all others yell "OUCH" and start firing cannons without realizing why. But most of all, the spirit of God; which if denied is denied.
    So, Jesus, in explanation of what scripture means, used PARAbles. He utilised the spirit of God to do so. And he left with us that same spirit to do so ourselves. smile what a wonderful gift. Which again is, if denied, denied.
    Then one without the spirit of God starts making up his own stuff and changing the words to feel good and including madness into the will of God and adamantly suggesting that others do the same.
    Truth is what we are after. Not fame. Not friends. Truth.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What a weak, pathetic god you follow. Incapable of expressing itself properly it needs to have you translate what it said for us? How special you are. wink

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Correction:
        We need to translate the words for ourselves. He NEEDS nothing from us. The good of helping our brothers to translate properly is smiled upon.
        Weak and pathetic...??? smile ok

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So - your god was simply not capable of expressing itself clearly. Would incompetent be a better description?

          But thanks for explaining at me why you need to change what it says. I am always interested in why women feel they can go against the word of god and teach men what the bible really means. wink

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            He explained himself clearly. Certain people are not privy, due to their own self-sufficiency, to the realization of his clear messages. I'm not special. Just needy. And he supplies. smile
            Uh, the woman bashing is cute wink
            Do it again...

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry if you feel the word of god is bashing women. Guess you aren't reading it properly. wink

              If it explained itself clearly - how come we need you to tell us what it actually means? wink

              And how come the religionist on the other thread is saying you are translating it wrong and he/she actually has it right? wink

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The word of God does not bash women. It uplifts.
                And it needs to be explained to those who have not yet said yes to his will alone. wink
                The lady on the other thread who is correcting YOU on what I AM saying should be gracious enough to share the CORRECT message with ALL of God's children and never allow herself the guilt of standing by to watch one who is "lost" to find her way.
                Please relay to the OTHER woman preacher on the OTHER forum who has YOUR blessing. I may need to speak with her. Thanks.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for explaining what god really means. No one has my blessing - I just appreciate and thank you for showing me why the bible causes so  so much hatred and conflict. So - women are allowed to teach men now? When did the word of god change?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I guess it ended when Paul died. Lol
                    To be honest. I'm not sure it ever really started. I am not sure if that was just the way the apostle did at his church or not; God used, and spoke through women.

                2. aka-dj profile image79
                  aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hope you are enjoying your "conversation" with RA.

                  Your in for a slippery ride! lol




                  PS, If you want some advice, walk away. big_smile

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    No biggie. smile
                    Greater is he that is in me.

                  2. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Good advice. I tend to use reason and that is incompatible with religious belief.

        2. Dr Lamb profile image60
          Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No, you don't need to translate anything. If you are a follower read what it says and follow. You can't make your own rules to suite your own needs. If it say adultery will send you to hell then don't do it. If you are going to dish out scripture to point at others than expect the same thing back.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I submit to the fact that adultery is wrong. Where were you about ten posts ago? smile
            I know where my leak is. I know how to fix it. 1. Submit to what is true. 2. Humbly admit your mistake to God. 3. Ask him to forgive you and provide his protection as you work with him to straighten crooked places. 4. Receive his blessing. 5. See him on judgment day with excitement because you know that he remembers that "thing" no more. smile
            It's quite simple actually.
            He wants us to look in the mirror of truth and NOT forget the image we saw...

            1. Dr Lamb profile image60
              Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So you absolve yourself and continue doing what you are asked not to do.

              "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

              Can I expect to not be hearing from you anymore?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Sure!!! You may expect any little thing you desire.
                Now teach me Jesus.  Oh!!! You don't know him you say??? Well sit back, buckle up and enjoy the ride... smile

  22. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    If anybody forced me near the brink of leaving my God, I would pray for more faith. And if Christians were the forces, I would check myself. "How can you say you love me whom you do not see; and hate your brother...?"
    Jesus was an evangelist. He said, "you will do what I do...even greater."
    The bible discerns who's who.   I guess that's why so many like to pick and choose the "good/tamper-free" scriptures and run with those.

    1. Dr Lamb profile image60
      Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No one is asking you to leave your faith if it works for you, but faith is like a fart in an elevator. It may feel good to let it out but nobody wants to hear it.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well you close your eyes too. Problem solved. wink

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Closing ones eyes won't stop someone from hearing or smelling a fart.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Gosh! You DON'T get metaphor do you? Listen carefully. We are not on an elevator, and we are not speaking of a fart. The "offense" is in READING the words of Jesus; being severely convicted; and yelling, OUCH!
            Do YOU understand??? smile lol

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What offensive is listening to someone quote words she herself has no intention to obeying.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Great! Then what's the problem?  I get my messages first.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Clearly you are not responding to the messages.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You don't know...

        2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It would make much more sense to close one mouth than close a multitude of ears who don't want to hear it.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Lemme see...


            Nope! My mouth was closed for a long time and still, you do not understand spirit. smile
            So, let's take it from the top, shall we..
            In the beginning, God... and I could stop right there. But there is much more that needs to be revealed.
            You just WAIT til I get my new laptop...got some hubs... wink

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That would be the preference, yes, please do.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Again, I am not here to pleasure you. This is my father's business. Truth...

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You got that right.

                2. junko profile image79
                  junkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Adultery is Wrong  so said the Law of God in the bible. Among mankind in America there is no law that says mankind will go to hell if he or she commit Adultery. Believers and nonbelievers, more so believers are subject to hell on earth when they ignore the law of God. They could be running around for years hoping a mountain falls on them. We don't have to die to go to hell, we can have our hell on earth. In America adultery is a civil matter, with God its right or wrong, good or bad. Believers and non believers were made in the spiritual image of God and most of the time know right from wrong. We can do so much wrong, we wouldn't have to die to go to hell.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Sure adultery is sin. So we all seem to finally agree! smile
                    And yes, hell can meet you on earth.
                    Thanks! You seem to be in total agreement so far...

 
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