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I believe there is hope for the atheist(s)

  1. aka-dj profile image78
    aka-djposted 2 years ago

    I once heard a quote, which I really like.
    "You can lead an atheist to the truth, but you can't make him/her believe".

    Christianity has always been a matter of the heart, and not the intellect, though, falsely ascribed, being devoid of it. To qualify that statement, one can have an intellectual argument either for or against, but the true conversion, (or lack of) will be determined at the deepest level of the persons being.

    Here's one (ex)atheist share her journey.

    http://youtu.be/aw8uUOPoi2M

    1. 0
      Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That was a really good video and I am happy for that woman.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am too, people should strive to be their most natural, sincere, happy selves--wherever that leads them.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, there is a lot of hope for atheists, especially when these kind of dishonest videos are presented out of desperation. I don't buy her story at all.

    3. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That video is pure Garbage!  This lady chose to embrace ignorance, and pretends that she used reason to do so.  That is called willful ignorance....which is totally dishonest.  From a logical perspective, her conclusion could not have been based on reason.  There was an emotive component driving this decision, hence the conclusion was reached first, then she gathered "evidence" the "support" her conclusion.

      1. aka-dj profile image78
        aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        That of course is your opinion. Beauty (or otherwise) is in the eye of the beholder.

        She chose to embrace an answer to a need in her life. The results she gained support her decision. 

        Perhaps you ought to be true to yourself, instead of your own delusions. That's being honest.

        Why?She "reasoned" that her atheistic creeds and values were lacking real life application.

        Of course there was an emotive component. We all have emotions! You have clearly demonstrated emotion, as evidenced by your many comments. Probably anger is at the top of the list. big_smile
        She, as a mother had to face those emotions.
        Reason and logic are not excluded by emotion within the human experience.

        A robot, or a computer may make decisions based on logic and reason, but it (they) could not raise a child, with the emotion required to do the task.

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Did she? I never saw that. These former atheist conversion stories are usually bogus, created by believers in order to somehow discredit atheism when in fact they are nothing but a pack of lies. She was no more an atheist than she was a pink elephant. She stumbles when talking about evolution, referring to it as random events, which it isn't at all, but that's the flawed understanding believers have.

          Being an atheist is not like a being a believer where any particular flavor du jour is gobbled up. Atheism is about thinking and understanding, reasoning and rationalizing why there are no gods. To just toss that away and decide Christianity makes so much sense is utterly ridiculous, it is well beyond reason, that person would have had to have lost their mind completely, perhaps with a pre-frontal lobotomy.

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            Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Don't be so dramatic!  wink

            I mean, we're not ALL delusional and dumb...lol

            IMO, the biggest problem when discussing a person's conversion is trying to make it logical and rational to the person who is not a believer. 

            Believers, there really IS a huge element of irrationality in our faith.  You can deny it till the cows come home, but it's the truth.  No amount of "reason" or "logic" can make it any less a fact.  Especially if we believe that our faith is evidence of a love relationship with the Creator.  When is love EVER logical or rational?

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The answer to that is simple, when love is misplaced, of course.

              It's not irrational or illogical to love people, we do that all the time, especially if we have families and friends or someone new we meet. It usually occurs with real, live people.

              But, what you're saying is "a love relationship with the Creator" which is obviously irrational and illogical considering that the love is based entirely on some words in an ancient book written by men. That love is clearly misplaced.

              Oh sure, you can claim those words were inspired by God, but when you actually look at them without being doe-eyed, they are words written be the men of that time, ignorant and mired in myth. Many religious scholars understand that. To claim they are God's inspired word is obviously dishonest as there is no way anyone can make that claim without having direct knowledge.

              Many believers are not dumb or deluded except when it comes to their religious beliefs, then all forms of reason and rational are tossed out the window and they become brain dead. No offense. smile

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                Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not remotely offended.  smile

                And I agree that love for an unseen, unproven God is indeed irrational.  I don't think it's misplaced though.  I have no issues with feeling psychologically disordered and I don't experience any cognitive dissonance about it.  If that happens, I'll reevaluate, promise.  Till then, it's been the biggest influence over how I interact with people, and since I genuinely love and enjoy those interactions, I can't deny that it (my irrational faith) has its merits.

                smile

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  While I'm sure the facade you've created for yourself appears that way on the inside, it certainly doesn't appear that way from the outside. And, that may be perfectly acceptable for want to live in a bubble.

                  And no, it's plain to see that your faith is not your biggest influence over how you interact with people, quite the contrary, in fact. It is when you become reasonable and rationale do you then begin to actually interact, the rest is just fluff. smile

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                    Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Are you saying I'm psychologically disordered and don't know it?  wink

                    That's okay.  I'm pretty harmless at the end of the day, so I'll just keep an eye on it.

              2. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Our love for family/friends is still "illogical" in a sense. Sometimes it would be much smarter to kill your (insert family member here) for whatever benefit it would provide you (for survival), but you don't. Love is in its nature irrational whether it's with real, live people, or "gods." As a matter of fact, even though I'm non-religious myself, I believe that religion is a majorly important tool for our survival. A necessary one? Not necessarily. Not with all the superficial crap. But the unity between us is something that helps us survive because we humans naturally seem to do poorly on our own.


                While I agree that it is misplaced, you're wrong about it being solely towards the words in a book. It is an idea. A longing for something larger than yourself, certainly formulated and influenced by words in a book, but extending so far beyond that. There is this nearly unexplainable experience for feeling completely flooded with love (however delusional it may be). But it's based on more than the book, as the words and ideas in it wouldn't come alive without the people.


                People believe they have direct knowledge.

                Same with love of any kind. smile How often does this describe a girl that was goo-goo over a guy or vice-versa. Same premise, and definitely human nature.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Normally, I would respond to your entire post, but I think you need some serious help.

                  1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You may feel that way, but love isn't logical. I'm not saying I would kill anyone in my family or my circle of friends. I'm not homicidal... I am saying, however, that love isn't logical. It helps us to survive, but there's a reason that sociopaths tend to be CEOs (or rather CEOs tend to be sociopaths...) Not everything that is natural or helps us to survive collectively is logical. For example... religion.

                    Let me give you an example. I am in debt because of my mother. I am her beneficiary on her life insurance. I LOVE my mother, I would NEVER harm her. But, logically, to get out my debt easily and efficiently, I could take her out and become debt free. Easily, quickly, and efficiently (if I could manage to not get caught). Would I ever do that? HELL NO, because I love her and even if it was someone I don't know, I wouldn't do it because I value life. Do you get the point?

        2. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No.  I'm sure this is garbage.



          What ANSWER!  That was nothing but psychotic nonsense.   



          Get real.  I don't, BLINDLY, follow what others tell me to believe...based on the psychotic rambling of Bronze Age ignoramuses, yet you say it is me who needs to be true to myself.  Please elaborate....



          Regardless!  There is never a reason to accept myths, fairy tales, and folklore as reality.  That's not reasoning, that's a serious disconnect from reality.



          So what?  We are not talking about me.  We are talking about some dishonest video, of some delusional nonsense, that you're trying to promote as a reasonable conversion.  This is garbage.




          But in the end, reason must prevail.  And in this video, willful ignorance is what shaped this woman's decision.



          That's why robots don't raise children.  What's your point?

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think the point about the anger is important, Getitrite, because you do come across as being quite angry in your posts. I think the point he's making is that it is common for people to make decisions based on emotion because we all experience emotion. You speak on this forum with a voice guided by anger, your choice. This woman for whatever emotional reason decided to become a Christian- her choice. We often do things based off of emotion.

          2. aka-dj profile image78
            aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Assertions made, based on personal biases and prejudice!

            That's both logical, reasonable and open minded of you.
            NO Assumptions, aye?

            Wilful ignorance? I doubt it.
            Atheists are way more prone to that mental disability. Sorry.

            Oh, and ALL conversions from atheism to Christianity are fake, right?
            OK, I got it.

            1. Dr Lamb profile image60
              Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, the data shows otherwise.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Dr. Lamb eh?

              2. aka-dj profile image78
                aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What data?

                Oh, the one that favours your POV. Sure.

                1. Dr Lamb profile image60
                  Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You made the statement, back it up with evidence or I'll show you my evidence to the contrary.

                  1. aka-dj profile image78
                    aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You brought data into the discussion.

                    Feel free.

    4. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is only "hope" for the athiest that is inclined to think that this "hope" you specifically refer to is necessary or exclusive to Christianity. For me, "hope" exists in a very different way. So I don't particularly need to search for yours; although there are some Christian precepts I like, I disagree with most.

      As far as the video is concerned, I haven't watched it. But judging by the comments others made, I'll only say a few things on it.
      -One, I'm certain the person in the video is being honest to the best of their ability at this stage in their life.
      -I won't say it's unlikely they were ever atheist because people ignorantly assume that I was never a Christian because I'm no longer a Christian. There are just certain things outsiders looking in won't ever understand.

      I'll watch it tomorrow as I'm going to sleep, soon; then I'll comment further.

      1. tsadjatko profile image79
        tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I may be wrong but by hope I think aka-dj really is not talking about atheists converting to any religion but talking of the Hope of Eternal Life and Salvation, that is the hope for all mankind, not just atheists because until anyone comes to Christ they are dead in their sins and trespasses and condemned to an eternal hell. This is beyond religion which is man reaching up to God. Christianity is God reaching down to (a fallen) mankind. No religion compares to Christianity and Christianity should not be brought down to the level of religion. Semantics aside the hope we speak of is for eternal life which cannot be obtained without salvation. The Bible makes it clear:
        Proverbs 24:20 for the evil man has no future; the lamp of the wicked will be put out.

        Proverbs 24:14 Know that wisdom is such to your soul; if you find it, there will be a future, and your hope will not be cut off.
        Titus 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

        1 Corinthians 15:19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

        2 Corinthians 4:16-18  So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

        1 Peter 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

        This is the tip of the iceberg that the Bible has to say about "Hope" Here is more.  http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com … z2s4y1zWcA

        Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Speak for yourself; no one in their right mind would wish for eternal life.  While it is certainly true that we would mostly like a longer lifespan (if healthy) there could be no greater curse than to live forever.

          1. tsadjatko profile image79
            tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But wilderness, you see you again apply your limited concept of the universe, limited to the natural only, which is not the truth - so you imagine eternal life being just an extension of how life is here and now in the natural world. The Bible gives us a glimpse of what eternal life will be like, the natural world will be recreated as it was before the fall, before sin corrupted it and there will be no tears, no evil, no death. You can't conceive of this if you are stuck on natural. So you, as most atheists assert we are not in our "right mind", an obvious and you know untrue statement but you feel you must insult anyone who disagrees with you when the truth is from a spiritual viewpoint no one in their right mind would believe that we are nothing but the result of random chemical reactions over billions of years and that there is no creator. It takes more faith to believe that than to believe that an omniscient omnipotent holy God outside of his creation created the universe with reason and purpose, created mankind for his pleasure and not forsaking us when we transgressed from holy into sin provided us his word by which to live and understand life and his perfect son to take the punishment for our sins because he is a just God. Our salvation is a free gift. You can not earn it but all you have to do is understand you are a sinner and repent from your sin, accept what Jesus did to pay for your sins (a substitution for your punishment) and God will make you his child, save you from eternal torment, thus salvation. You really should investigate what is the truth and accept that you are the one believing a lie, there is a supernatural world that includes the natural and that is true reality.

            http://s4.hubimg.com/u/8702067_f248.jpg

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No, what we see is your limited willingness to reason AND accept the conclusions of that reason.  You have obviously refused/failed to consider what eternal life would entail and how you would entertain yourself after a few million years, let alone billions, trillions and quadrillions of trillions of billions.

              Absolutely, it is easier to believe in an omniscient, omnipotent invisible creature from another dimension making ours than it is to extrapolate the known and observed chemical and physical actions taking place all around us.  It does, after all, give rise to that eternal life if we but extend the imagination just a bit further and conclude that said creature loves and cares for a handful of us, most obviously including the believer.  That does make it all easier, doesn't it?  Even though thousands of years of searching has never found the creature or any activity the could reasonably claim was caused by it.

            2. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Suggest you need to go back to at least high school if that's what you think current thinking is.

              1. gmwilliams profile image85
                gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/8663733.png

              2. tsadjatko profile image79
                tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Current thinking? What the hell is current thinking? You mean your thinking because currently there is no consensus in the real world and I don't know what would make you think there is unless you are brainwashed to believe that. I suggest you investigate the book and the "religion" you despise because you actually know nothing about it - I have investigated your "world" view thoroughly and found it extremely lacking and unscientific. I have a BA in Biology and and BS in Biology, I taught biology and used to believe in evolution because in the curriculum I was in it gave me no choice. It wasn't until I graduated and worked in the real world that I discovered just how unscientific the scientific community can be. But that's fine, go on pretending you have all the answers, it doesn't matter from your point of view anyway because you believe when you die it will be as if you never existed - you will cease to exist and so will I.  From your point of view there is no purpose to life at all and when the planet dies from global warming it won't matter anyway - we're just a bunch of chemical reactions walking around until the chemistry runs it's course and then what? - you are nothing more than the rocks and dirt you walk upon. Current thinking was once that the earth was flat - there is no absolute value to what you call current thinking, a poor and I might add uneducated defense.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I find that hard to believe considering the scientific community has shown itself to be anything but unscientific. You can observe any lab, archeological dig, particle accelerator, museum, observatory, clinic and see nothing but science being conducted.

                  Wherever you may have studied and worked certainly doesn't fit with what's happening in science.

                  You say you once "believed" in evolution. If you had a degree in biology, you should thoroughly understand evolution, most likely you had to write papers on the subject and relate it every aspect of your research. Are you saying you accepted evolution as fact but now you call it a lie? What reasons do you have to reject it now?

                  1. tsadjatko profile image79
                    tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I never accepted it as fact, I said I believed in it...as a theory which when I was in school is what it was - to me it was and still is only a theory and actually I know now it is not even worthy of being considered more than an hypothesis however I had professors who treated it as fact even though they called it a theory. When you are getting a degree in science you learn early not to rock the boat but give the answers they want so that you get the grade. Throughout my education from high school through college there was never opportunity to debate evolution, it was a given and I must admit I was indoctrinated into accepting it as were some of my friends who are today accomplished scientists and educators who do not accept evolution as fact. In fact any scientist worth his salt could never accept it as fact.
                    Yes I studied and I know all about evolution and much has changed since the late 60s when I was in college. I reject it simply because in the light of what we know now about how infinitely complicated and engineered even the simplest forms of life are there are insurmountable mathematical probabilities it requires to occur, the misrepresentations and lies so called "scientists" have propagated to perpetuate the lie, the fact that the whole basis of some evolutionary theory requires millions of years to occur making it unobservable and therefore unprovable, the fact that it is not a scientific theory but the theory existed before science was ever practiced. If you watch Frank Turek's videos or read his book you quickly realize that it takes far more faith to believe in evolution as fact than an intelligent creator of the universe and anyone who puts forth the idea that only stupid uninformed people could not believe in evolution is himself uninformed or uneducated about the science, has never approached evolution with a critical mind because he has basically been brainwashed by a system that requires any science to be limited to the natural and therefore excludes the possibility of the supernatural which is one of the domains of the creator.  If you by practice exclude any possibility or believe any explanation beyond the natural is tabu you are not practicing science. You have established preconceived results from the start and that is not science. Be honest brain dead man, you have never watched the video "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist"  through have you. You haven't investigated the myriad presentations of scientists refuting evolution, have you...in short you have been duped because you have bought into a philosophy that agrees with your preconceived notions or you have given too much credence to a 'scientific" community which if you investigated honestly you would find has an agenda which is not scientific. Of course you could just be of the gmwilliams ilk, who revels in infantile digs because she really has nothing of intelligence to contribute to this discussion. But that's not you, is it.

            3. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sure, we can conceive of that world, no problem. In Norse mythology, it was Valhalla, ancient Greece had Elysium, one of three spiritual realms. What is very interesting is that early Judaism had only one realm where all the dead went, the wicked and the righteous; Sheol.

              There are many more afterlife representations and stories, all meant as a reward system for being righteous and pious, a place of eternal punishment or something in between.

              If you and I were both born during the time of the Vikings, we too would be expected and encouraged to die in battle and join the Einherjar. In early Greece, one would have to be chosen by the gods, a hero amongst all men.

              All of these realms can and have been conceived already, they are the realms created in the minds of men who were indeed "stuck in nature" just like the rest of us are now.



              It's plain to see you have chosen Christianity as your worldview, which is fine, no one is going to tell you not to have your faith.

              Just like there are many afterlife stories, there are as many faiths, Christianity being one of them. Although it is one of the largest groups of believers, it is still a minority when faced against world population, which means it is a truth held by a minority of people. And, even then, there are thousands of various denominations, all having their version of the same truth.

              So, it would stand to reason that any beefs you have about Christianity being the truth should be with other believers of the world, from all other religions. They are actually the ones who disagree with you as well as each other.

              Those who accept nature as being our reality have no beefs with any faiths and the truths they preach, we have no claims to any other realities, supernatural or otherwise.

              The buck stops here. smile

          2. aka-dj profile image78
            aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That would be true, IF, you stayed the same as you are now.

            With sin in ones life, eternity would be no less that hell, anyway.

          3. Kiss andTales profile image23
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            True many would not want to live forever in bad conditions, example .like a party gone bad within an istablishment, people fighting, threats, jealousy , bad and unclean inviroment ,injustice of people , The point is you are right, but have you ever had an enjoyable family moment or hours of enjoyment and the time got away, you did not pay attention to the time you did not want it to end. true happiness has not been open to us yet ,we only see glimpses of what the future holds, We are on this side for a short time! The real life is round the corner.  Just because we where born in this world or system does not mean we control anything.

        2. aka-dj profile image78
          aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, that's the point.

    5. tsadjatko profile image79
      tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8699344_f248.jpg

      Anyone who comes to Christ has a testimony. The Bible says only God knows one's heart and it always amazes me how atheists, knowing very little of a convert, the Bible or even what they believe (in some instances) will attack a person's sincerity at the drop of a hat, or from watching a video clip about what they believe if it disagrees with their atheist view. Perhaps this woman who now has joined the vast majority of human beings who believe there is more to life than molecular evolution and the natural world is making a valid point, that what atheists believe simply isn't reality, that there is a supernatural and you will never discover it if you enslave your mind to the idea there is nothing beyond the natural. Say this to an atheist and the best they can come up with is humans have evolved to be prone to delusion, Dawkin's fall back defense (of course even though he is part of that "evolutionary development" somehow he is immune from delusion). Atheists have to contort logic to make their point.

      aka dj The fact is, the atheists who flock here to refute your thread are closed minded people blind to the truth who would rather go to their grave believing after the day they die they will no longer exist, as if they never were and so what does it matter anyway! This is what they choose to believe as opposed to believing in an eternal future with a loving omniscient creator God (who has a plan for their life even before they were born), witnessed by disciples who recorded their accounts thousands of years ago. I ask you which needs more faith to believe? There are many testimonies of atheists who have come to Christ, probably over the years many more times the number of atheists in the world today. Here is a recent one. Of course they will say the same thing of this video as of yours, attacking the veracity of the convert because they are blind to the truth so they have no choice but to denigrate anything that disagrees with their point of view. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ … nity.html.

      1. tsadjatko profile image79
        tsadjatkoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The link didn't work because of the period at the end - should be  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ … anity.html

    6. WiccanSage profile image95
      WiccanSageposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I have to wonder. I recently wrote a hub about how the Wiccan religion changed my life. I've known many other Wiccans/Pagans to share similar experiences of conversion.

      I wonder if you're willing to just accept other people's testimony, even if our religion and Gods are different than your own?

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        @ Wiccan Sage, I doubt it.  Many people adopt various ethical, spiritual, and philosophical principles which changed their lives.  I was raised a Catholic and left that religion at 21 because of its dogmatic oppressiveness and misogynic attitudes, especially in terms of women's societal roles and contraceptive issues.

        I believed in God but refused to have any part of any organized religion.   In my twenties, I read many New Age books and found that such beliefs mirrored my own.  I felt comfortable and began to absorb New Age principles.  New Age has changed my life for the better. I believe that life is a series of opportunities and that failure is merely a lesson for have evolution and growth instead of a stain which is taught in Catholicism.  I am also more accepting of varied lifestyles since I became a New Ager.   I have also learned to think beyond the box.   

        Catholicism to me was stultifying to say the least.  I found that Catholicism stressed blind obedience and conformism in addition to reliance on some religious authority   I AM ONE PERSON who isn't blindly obedient nor conformist.   

        To digress, I was always a curious child.   In the first grade, there was a test and the nun(repressive, neurotic, and totally anally obsessive) instructed us not to look at the pages of the test.  I looked nevertheless much to her chagrin. I was not a conformist, even as a child.  Catholicism is not one for innovative thought at all.  It rewards those who blindly accept and obey.  It is a very exclusive religion which emphasizes an extremely rigid life view.   Glad to have LEFT it! 

        @Wiccan Sage, glad to make an acquaintance of a fellow, nontraditionalist spiritualist.   Good to talk about non-traditional religions and to add to the discussion.  There are Christians and other traditional religionists who become atheists or agnostics.  There are atheists and agnostics who become traditional religionists.  There are Christians and other traditional religionists who become non-traditional spiritualists and so on.   Whatever makes one happy and does not harm anyone.   However, the subject of the thread disturbs me.  "Hope" for the atheist(s)?   What hope, people have the right to believe in any ethical ,religious, and/or spiritual principle they wish.   Why are some people highly intrusive of other's people beliefs especially when IT DOES NOT CONCERN them? 

        @Wiccan Sage, there are some people who adamantly aver that others should believe as THEY do. If they elect not to do so, they are "lost"  and "in need of saving."    If they really believe in God, they would realize that God or the Universal Force is beyond any human judgement.   God and/or the Universal Force or Consciousness really do not care what one believes in; what is important is if one is kind and caring towards humankind.  If one is condemning of humankind, one's religious pontifications are indeed pointless or moot.

        1. aka-dj profile image78
          aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Except, the God of creation, the universe and originator of life, has SPOKEN to us, through Jesus Christ.
          It seems that you are correct. He IS beyond human judgement. That's the very reason He has made Himself know, lest we never find Him.

          He was the one who told us we need saving.
          He's the One who said HOW He wants to accomplish that.
          He's the ultimate, absolute authority on the subject.

          We, believers, are simply trying to spread that message.

        2. WiccanSage profile image95
          WiccanSageposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Hi GM -- I'm sorry, I think I posted the wrong way! I never meant to imply a Wiccan's personal conversion story might weigh more than one of another religion-- or that atheists need 'hope' or 'saving' or religion in any way.

          I agree, what religion you practice doesn't matter (and I don't think it matters if one is an atheist, either). I agree, I also find the notion disturbing.

          I was more curious about the original poster's position on religious testimony from other belief systems.

      2. aka-dj profile image78
        aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I do indeed accept other's testimony.

        After all, it's their experience, their life.

        That, however, does not equate to the same outcome, as does the doctrine of salvation, only found in Jesus Christ.

        Alternate "faiths" will be around as long as we, humans are around.

        There is one (logical) problem that this poses. Several, opposing "truths", cannot all be simultaneously true!

        Jesus makes the claim, that He's the ONLY way, the ONLY saviour, and rose from the dead to verify all He said and did.

        As people keep pointing out, they believe there are many way to God.

        The two are mutually exclusive! You can't have it both ways!

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You can't have it both ways, but you CAN have it that Jesus was full of crap (or didn't exist at all).  Ar at least that the people reporting what he said were full of crap. 

          As soon as we begin to question Jesus' words the whole thing falls apart as none of his claims of the supernatural can be tested and others have promoted as good or better lifestyle than Jesus did.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Wilderness, do not EVEN  bother, I am so through with THIS discussion. AKA-DJ is going to persist in his beliefs.  That's fine; however, when he forces his beliefs on othersr, that is beyond the pale.  I shall NOT argue any more!  He has HIS beliefs and I HAVE MINE. DONE!

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That is SSSOOO hyppocritical!

              You "force" your belief just as much as you say I do.

              NOW, you're done! lol

              Could have saved us both the trouble, when I asked you to leave the thread days ago.

              Looking forward to round two, with you, another day.
              Nice chatting with you. Sorry about any sarcasm. I do try and keep it under control. big_smile

            2. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Exactly...let it go.

              When someone's premise is that one is EITHER an atheist OR a Christian, reason and logic are done for.

          2. aka-dj profile image78
            aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            YOU can have it that way.
            I won't. I DO believe.

            Remember, it's a FAITH thing. I don't need it "tested"!

            Jesus has made Himself real to me.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Of course you can!  Certainly I never insinuated or said anything different - you can believe anything you wish.  I fully understand that you think Jesus made himself real to you - it's not hard when no evidence is required and that's what you want to hear anyway.  However and "whyever" it happened, I would not take that belief from you, although I will always point out what reality, supported by testable evidence, is.

        2. WiccanSage profile image95
          WiccanSageposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Ahh, I see.

          So you're willing to 'accept' testimony of people of other religions, but equally willing to dismiss it when it doesn't fit in with your beliefs and experiences (like in my case, in which my spiritual experiences taught me Jesus is not the way for everyone, that there is no single way at all, that the very idea there is 'one way' is a man-made myth).

          Why should you be surprised then when an atheist dismisses testimony of your religion when it does not fit in with their beliefs and experiences?

    7. 0
      Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There are different types of atheists.  Some know there is a God, but others don't.   The bible says, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."
      Others are just too smart for their own good.   All that they are enlightened to know works against them; God can't be physically seen; therefore, He cannot exist.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Not a single atheist knows there is a god.  Nor anyone else, for that matter as it cannot be proved, but no atheist even believes there is a god.  That is the definition of "atheist" after all.

        Only an idiot would claim that because "god can't be physically seen; therefore, he cannot exist".  The same can be said for a virus, an amoeba, a hydrogen atom and most of the rest of the universe.  Being invisible most definitely does NOT preclude existence - not even having no detectable "results", like god, can do that.

      2. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, but even someone who labels themself "atheist" isn't really an atheist. There is a difference between believing that there is a God and not wanting to accept it, versus believing that there's not enough evidence to support that there is a God, and more specifically that if there is a God, that any of the religions has it right. Anyone who feels they are in denial isn't really an atheist... they are a theist that's probably angry or unwilling to give up whatever they secretly think "God" would want them to give up if they became religious/devout. That's not an atheist. An atheist is any individual that denies the existence of a god from a logical standpoint. If they secretly believe in God, by default they aren't an atheist.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          ATW - in your opinion, in your common usage, can an atheist say "I don't know"?  "I have no belief either way"? 

          Or is that limited to agnostics?  Because I'm finding the word to mean mostly "I don't know" on the forums of HP - a usage I would never have put to the word.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            An agnostic is someone who thinks that we cannot know, but they are technically an atheist by default because they've seen no evidence to definitively state that there is a god (and don't think that we can ever know because of the nature of the mind, subjectivity, etc).

            Edit: "I don't know," and "I've seen no evidence for it" is about the same. For how can you know something without evidence?

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I meant those two to be equivalent.

              I see - you seem in line with most of the posters in HP then.  I grew up using "atheist" as a foolish person that thought they knew there was no god and made the claim.  "Agnostic" was the person saying "I don't know" and was the default position for any thinking, honest person.

              I'm trying to come into agreement with modern usage, but still get tripped up occasionally.

  2. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    I think my heart is just fine as it is, thanks.

    1. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you psycheskinner, I AM TOO FINE THE WAY I AM.  Again, religionists don't know how to mind THEIR OWN business.  Atheists are fine the way they are.  NOT EVERYONE wants to be/become a Christian and that is OKAY.   Religion is not the BE AND END ALL.  PLEASE GET A LIFE!   PROSLETYZING IS WRONG, let OTHERS BE!   Methinks that this thread is promoting hate speech against atheists.   Who do religionists believe that EVERYONE has to be religious?  Really now, isn't that illogical thinking.  Everyone is DIFFERENT and such differences should be RESPECTED!

      1. aka-dj profile image78
        aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You sure sound angry.
        If this thread was directed at you (specifically), I would understand your response.
        However, it's an open ended thread, aimed at anyone who wants to discuss the OP, POLITELY!
        No YELLING, or accusing of "bothering and proselytising".

        Besides, when exactly did I mention everybody has to become religious?
        If I'm not mistaken, you were the one to introduce that line!

        You want to stay an atheist? I respect that, AND the fact that you can be different.

      2. 0
        Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You know, I think it is pretty funny that someone hijacked your name and tried to start a forum.  I hope no one does that to me.  But anyway, I am sorry, but I found it funny...
        In my opinion, this hub is not promoting hatred for the atheist, but hope.  If anything, we Christians are hated and mocked.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Not the Christian, just the control they try to exert over others.

          Hate the sin, not the sinner.

        2. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It WASN'T funny at all!  I hope that it does not happen to YOU!  However, the troll was discovered and banned. This not only happened to me but I was informed that it happened to another hubber.  Someone hijacked that hubber's thread, harassing the hubber throughout.  At least, my troll was nipped in the bud.  I REPORTED the troll immediately! NO ONE messes with ME!
          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/8704749_f248.jpg
          Christians are not mocked nor are they discriminated against.  However, it is the atheist who are mocked and discriminated against.  Although there is greater tolerance and inclusions of varying ethical and spiritual beliefs, atheists are still stigmatized and marginalized in many American subcultures.  Atheists are considered to be evil or worse.  They are oftentimes believed to have no moral compass because they do not believe in God or a Universal Force. 

          Atheists are among the most misunderstood and demonized of all American social groups.  Some Christians, NOT ALL, particularly those of the more extreme, fanatical, conservatives, and fundamentalistic varieties view atheists as hellbent and quite damnable.  They contend that atheists are lost souls and in need of some type of redemption.   Let me correct this, not only the more extreme and conservative of Christians but the more extreme and conservative of many religions have the same opinion of atheists.

          1. 0
            Lybrahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            It is true that all who reject Christ are lost, but I don't think atheists are less intelligent or without a moral compass.  I don't think less of an atheist personally.  I just don't agree with them.

          2. Kiss andTales profile image23
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe  Some one Atheist  would say I am extreme in my faith, just as they are extreme in their believe, this is true, and they have a right to their choice just as I do,  I have learned there is a right way and wrong way to everything in life, many people enjoy the wrong instead of choosing the right.  The problem is one offers temporary enjoyment and a short lived life, when the other offers a new life into a world without sickness and death, a cleaned up earth, and the resurrection of many family members  and friends, This was a promise made to us for us. The promise is not  temporary. 2Peter 3:13 tells us so.  What can you be offered better than this from the true God himself?  Psalm 83:18. There is nothing.  For an exchange has been made to purchase all humans the right to live in the future without all the problems we have today, when you buy,it belongs to you ,you poses it , In order for us to be counted in this transaction we must recognize the value and show our deepest respect.

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              According to those who say truth is relative, your statement re right and wrong way would be irrelevant.

              They would argue the point of right and wrong.

              It seems that, when it comes to faith, (read as religious), those who have it are wrong, and those that don't are right. (Atheist).

              Then, the reverse is true for the Christian.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image23
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Example we both look out the window and see a view of a park, what I see with my own eyes has convinced me that this is a park  and what kind, when you see the same vision you see your version of what is outside your window ,I do not argue your point of what you see, but people can not tell me what  I witness with my own eyes, I can tell you my experience ,but if you doubt it because you can not see what I see  then there is no value in it for you, Many people will not experience what is spiritual and that means they will not understand, it does not mean people will always remain this way, it is like a women being told for the first time she is pregnant  ,reality sets in when she has the symptoms , and development ,another women could tell her what the pain is like ,but she really will not know until she is experiencing the pain. Like a man he will not understand exactly what a woman's pain is . But does that mean she is making it up ,it does not exist no!  Reality is many people see things that others don't, many understand languages others don't! ,many people believe in things that others don't , but does that stop people from learning ,and looking into matters that could be life saving. there is no harm in learning how to be good ,no harm in learning how to treat your Neighbors  with love and respect, there is no harm in being peaceable, and that is what God Almighty is all about, if you disagree with these important things then you will not see.

        3. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I find it interesting that Christians persist in the self-serving rhetoric of "we Christians are hated and mocked".

          Really?

          You can barely get elected dog-catcher in the US if you are not a self-described Christian.

  3. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago

    I'm sure they'll be tremendously relieved to know that you don't feel their cause is lost.  wink

  4. 0
    Emile Rposted 2 years ago

    Hey dj. Interesting video. It's great to see someone unafraid to follow wherever their path leads them. So many spend so much time hiding behind what others attempt to force them to believe is the only acceptable path. I'm sure she had many on her blog attempting to bully her intellectually into stopping the search. Good for her that she followed her own heart.

    Thanks for sharing.

  5. gmwilliams profile image85
    gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago

    There is nothing wrong with atheists.  They have the right to their beliefs.  Whose concern is it of anyone as to whether a person is an atheist or not?  Why do so many religionists strongly insist that others should be like them?  What makes so many religionists fear and hate atheists? 

    Atheists aren't bothering anyone.   It is the religionists who harangue people and maintain that others should be like them.  The thread should be rephrased to say, " Is THERE hope for religionists who insist that others BE LIKE THEM. 
    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/8668918_f248.jpg

    1. aka-dj profile image78
      aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So. Which religionist forced you to read this and comment?

      I see you are well and truly set in your ways, so, no need to stick around any longer.

      Bye!

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I have SAID my piece in response to THIS THREAD.  I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE.  I shall respond to this thread and continue to do so AS I WELL PLEASE! 
        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8559684.jpg
        Well, here's YET ANOTHER thread about atheists.  Really, what concern it is? 
        http://s4.hubimg.com/u/8696843_f248.jpg
        Some people just CAN'T let others BE.  They should live THEIR OWN life and MIND their OWN business.  If they did THAT, they would not have time to be concerned about other people's lives, beliefs, or whatEVER!
        http://s3.hubimg.com/u/8558618.jpg
        AGAIN!

        1. aka-dj profile image78
          aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Why bother?

          There is no hope for you (becoming a Christian), therefore, it's pointless to argue on this specific thread.

          Bye.

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But wasn't your whole point in starting this thread is that there IS hope for everyone-including even those who do not acknowledge the existence of God?  GM does acknowledge a spiritual realm and an idea of God.  As such, it would seem to me that there is more hope for her becoming a Christian than the average atheist.  Seems like you're not as filled with hope as your OP might present you to be?

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, you are correct about the OP.

              However, GMW was the first to start yelling.

              I can't help my sarcasm at times.
              I'm all for polite, respectful discussions.
              I haven't met many(atheists) here that fit that category.
              Sooner or later they get abusive, condescending or rude.

              1. 0
                Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I understand that.  But as believers, we have the responsibility to remain calm and patient and kind in the face of opposition.  That's my take on it anyway.  This God we serve is quite capable of drawing anyone to himself.  big_smile

          2. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            To reiterate, I am NOT going ANYWHERE.  I shall CONTINUE to respond as I PLEASE!
            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8562232_f248.jpg

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If you desire to continue, then don't just do as you please.
              Consider those already here, PLEASE!

            2. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Good for you "gmwilliams".

              More of us should stand our ground against this bigotry and discarding of those deemed unworthy because they are not Christians.

          3. 0
            mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So, you admit your bias:

            Either one IS a Christian OR there is "hope" that one will become a Christian OR one is nothing---not even worth bothering with.

            Thank goodness that I am a secular humanist. We value all people without reference to their belonging to/not belonging to any given sect.

  6. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Great points on both sides, But I will ask these questions for thought! I have never seen gmwilliams, or Wiccan sage, but through your words and thoughts on printed page you speak loud and clear, you reason and ask questions, and express your thoughts and feelings, I do not know if you are real , you say you are, The point is you know who you are, does that make you not real because I have not seen you in person? I would say no!  So Is God's word on written pages as well, We can not see air but we breath it and need it, there are gases we can not see but they are fatal if we ignor there existence, Also  mans life cycle  say 80 - 100 years of life , which does not last long enough to evolve into any thing because  his cells die very fast,, And a ape is still ape and reproduce apes, not a man. I do believe in a highly intelligent being, I believe he is responsible for all living things, why because nothing exist on its own ,everything man makes is a copy of what this  highly intelligent being has already made, Example people have made robots , they are limited what they can do.  Yet when we see one we know there is a designer  and programmer of this robot, we do not say it evolved from another thing, we accept a maker, I will say if man can make a robot and many machines only using a percent of his mental power ,what makes people think that a greater mind using 100 percent and perfect in all his power could not make living beings, he is the one that has the patent to all his creations, Our earth is made for humans in every way possible A home for our kind, and all other things outside the earth compliment it ,for heat and light, all things have order, even our cells.

    1. WiccanSage profile image95
      WiccanSageposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Coming back to this late, but you mention my name. I do agree with you, that it's like the Bible, but I don't agree in the way you think.

      See, people on the internet are always making up pseudonym and writing things on any number of subjects, claiming to be an entirely different person, fabricating experiences and putting them forth, And there are always people who believe them whole-heartedly, who take it on faith and look for things to justify this believe that the person on the other end of the internet is really who/what they claim to be. And some people are going to read the same thing and not believe it. Basically, just because someone wrote the words down, doesn't mean they truly came from the source you think they came from, and doesn't even mean the things actually happened, and it doesn't mean what they believed was ever true.

      I don't even want to get into evolution with you because A) it's besides the point and B) what you just wrote about species not being able to evolve in a life time demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of evolution (there is nothing in evolution that says species evolve in a lifetime; it takes hundreds to thousands+ generations of small changes for something to evolve; and evolution doesn't say one species must die off for another to evolve out of it, just as the tree doesn't have to die off for the branch to grow out of it).

      The point is you accept something as truth or non-truth based on whether or not it confirms your own experiences and beliefs. Just as you experience your God, I experience my Gods and Goddesses; Hindus experience theirs; and atheists experience none. All of us are flawed little humans in a vast universe, our experiences filtered through our own perspectives and understandings of the information coming in. For anyone to step up and claim others need hope, well it's arrogant and condescending because it's devaluing the other person's experiences and deeply held beliefs. It should be no wonder that some people will take offense to it.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image23
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is true that people do write under disguise , But in my case I do not have to do that what I speak is what I know and I feel that I should be able to speak like everyone else, and what you speak may be based on your own experience , But I do not take offense to what others believe ,because I am very much aware of others believes , But can we be offended if we send our children to read and write to learn the basics and to understand the how's and whys We allow others to enlighten and help to see  , we will allow education in many forms, Then when it comes to the bible which is a basic of standard in right and wrong, and good and bad, now some one is offended . People i live the truth from the bible rather they admit to it or not!  Example how did you learn what offense means , the word God! the word human , the language comes from the bible nowhere else.  Not just the word but why it exist.  And if you where to travel all over the world the word man would sound different but would mean the same man. As well as many other everyday words, who created the word God? a language created way before we where born.

  7. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    After my post I noticed something written  was not funny ! If I offended you in anyway it was not my intention, I responded to your your words about christains believing in. God, and take this very serious.

    1. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No, it was not addressing you Kiss and Tales but another previous poster who indicated that someone who trolled me, hijacking my username and staring a forum was funny- NO, IT WASN'T.  People who use other's people usernames are DANGEROUS and VICIOUS people, worse than the worst criminal. However, the troll was banned shortly thereafter.  To add, people have been arrested for impersonating someone and/or forging other's people name. Well, that is water under the bridge, no need rehashing it!  Let's continue with the discussion.  Each people has a right to his/her belief, spiritual, religious, or ethical which should be respected by all parties involved.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image23
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is true we all are free moral agents God forces no one to come to him, this is a personal choice each human will make.  But I believe in all fairness the truth exist just as well as the lie, We will chose one rather we want to or not, The point is no one will say they never heard it.

      2. WiccanSage profile image95
        WiccanSageposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And it's living proof that messages written down aren't always from who they claim to be from ;-)

  8. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Thank you for letting me know this info ,

  9. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    True but messages from secretaries are accepted, and the message sent is more important then the mailman.  Does that make a life saving message invalid? Because you received it by someone you really do not know, say a fire breaks out ,some one gets this message to you ,would you question the deliver because you just do not believe this is possible ? Time and minutes counting while life is on the line.

  10. Rfordin profile image87
    Rfordinposted 2 years ago

    We'd all like to believe there is hope - hope for the morons of society, hope for world peace, hope to end child abuse, hope to end world hunger - we surely do not lack hope.

    As a self proclaimed Agnostic (more so Atheist then Christian) I gotta tell you I think it's a load of garbage too.

    Believe what YOU want. Hope for what's important to YOU. Keep YOUR opinions and judgment to a minimum and hope might just survive. Our world revolves on diversity however we severely lack understanding of one another.

    1. janesix profile image60
      janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It's a good idea to use spell check on your posts when you're calling other people morons.

    2. Kiss andTales profile image23
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I do agree with you about all the problems of the world ,but if I told you. as an example the cure to the most deadly disease is available and you have the information to get this cure, would you just say I do not believe  because you do not know how the cure was made, or because you know little about the creator of this  life saving medicine,  the earth is in its bad condition because  Satan called God a liar, the issue was to try to prove we did not need God for  anything, we could make decisions own our own .Adam and Eve  listen to the voice of Satan. And that is the real reason why the earth is in bad condition, example it is like some one questions your ability as  a employer. , they say you are a liar and you do not ave the right to tell your employees you hired how to perform their  job . Would it solve the problem by firing everybody ?
      Well when our Heavenly Father was put in this same position he did not destroy all  rebellious  parties, instead he allowed generations of people to be born and through history man has been living without him interfering , he has allowed Satan to rule for some time , now his rulership is about up. The point  is  the Angles, and  a great crowd of people that know the situation  can  say we really do need our heavenly farther to  intervene and bring his government to reverse all damage done,  this will be settle for all time.  the book of Daniel tells about the image of  world powers that came and gone in certain sequence, we are the last at the toes. the book of Revelations tells how this alls ends, the point is the real issues and the solutions is in the treasure of the bible. People really should take it serious ,

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If you were dying and had had 1,000 charlatans trying to sell you a snake oil "cure" that, after 1,000 tries, still didn't work would you listen to #1,001 with the identical spiel?

        1. aka-dj profile image78
          aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You mean to say, that 1000 tries of (finding) God were all failures?

          Im my case, it only took looking at about 6-10 options.

          NONE came close to what Jesus has done on my first encounter.

          I suggest, you haven't tried to find Him 1000 times.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            And I'm suggesting that instead of god you found your imagination and conscience.

            1. aka-dj profile image78
              aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I'm so tired of people who don't know anything about me, can so flippantly diagnose my "problem".

              Spare me, please.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, much like people telling me I have not looked 1000 times for a god out there.

                Spare me, please.

                1. aka-dj profile image78
                  aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I asked a question.
                  I didn't make a statement about you, much less a "diagnosis".

                  I AM sparing you, of that which I dislike also.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "I suggest, you haven't tried to find Him 1000 times."

                    "I didn't make a statement about you, much less a "diagnosis"."

                    Wonder which statement was made by the cat walking on the keyboard and which by aka-dj?

        2. Kiss andTales profile image23
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I get what you are saying,many people reach out to find the true God or Heavenly Father Psalm 83:18    Why does it seem there are many avenues or roads, and many come to a dead end ! What I have learned that  he is a reader of hearts.  People are not , we judge by appearances , he goes deeper, and he really is not far off from us , He wants us to be in a relationship with him, but if we can believe and respectfully welcome the source he is using  yes he will not be far away. And if you are having a connection problem Satan steps in to keep you blinded till the end of all issues have been finally settled, he has successfully  done a good job in taking people's attention off the real issues , there is a scripture that says  keep your eyes on the  things unseen for the things seen are only temporary,  this means spiritual issues, yes these governments are seen ruling, but the one unseen will rule forever, Because all religion does not have the approval of the father and his Son Jesus.  Why ! Because they are not pure in truth, they are Hypocrites. But it is sad the truth ,or example the real goal is mix in with fools goal, people need to test it out ,study it to make sure of the authentic truth instead of giving up on finding real goal. Satan cause the mix up.
          2 Corinthians 4:18 
          Daniel 2:44  is making its  entrance.

          1. Dr Lamb profile image60
            Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, this wreaks of indoctrination. Don't let others control your mind.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Kind of what I got from it, too.  If you want god in your life, put aside reason and thought, leaving imagination and belief to decided what is there.  That will probably result in a god, yes, but one outside of reality and existing only in the imagination.

              Works for millions of people, though.  Just not for those whose mind keeps saying "Whups, hold on there.  That makes no sense!".

              1. Dr Lamb profile image60
                Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Being taught that reason is brought on by evil Satan is frightening.

                1. Kiss andTales profile image23
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes it is frightening but just as good exist you must admit that  the earth now is filled with  many kinds of evil.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    As it has always been.  At least it is getting some better; more of the world can be considered civilized than in the past.

              2. Kiss andTales profile image23
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                There are many things in life that will never make since!  And if you  are ok with that thought  ,that is your  free will .  But what is valuable to others may never be for  others. , And the thought  will not change the future.

            2. Kiss andTales profile image23
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              This may be weak to your mind ,but  it is truth to a vast crowd, but you and any one are always welcome to your own thoughts  and conclusions.

  11. aka-dj profile image78
    aka-djposted 2 years ago

    PS. I don't own a cat. Nor do I have one randomly walking across my keyboard.

    Meow!

  12. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    My spelling is off ,I want to correct goal to gold! Fools gold.

    1. Dr Lamb profile image60
      Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You can click the edit but for a while after posting.

  13. 0
    mbuggiehposted 2 years ago

    So must one be a Christian in order for you to believe that they are not atheists?

    Is atheism the new word for non-Christian?

    1. Kiss andTales profile image23
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There are Christians that are not Christians ,which means that actions speaks for itself the truth, Self claimed but far from Jesus ways and steps,
      Many people are Atheists because of the hypocrisy in religion, well understood, and bad experiences ,  Some are people that only believe in what they can see , which can be questionable , because they believe in air an invisible  substance we all breath in to live ,So  when the truth finally reaches them they reject this also.  The key to truth is never to deviate from the authentic map. anyone that tells you something different then what is written in God's word ,can possibly stray from the truth. You have to compare what is said against what is written, many religions are based on man made doctrines and rules, not supported by truth in the bible.
      Most people will take the word of imperfect people like themselves .Also
      we as humans have many things in the heavens as well as on earth that keeps our lives possible everyday, we did not create this global home ,or the planets in space and sun moon and stars that we benefit from, example Just as we would put an aquarium together for tropical fish we would provide a wonderful environment , light , heat. and salt water is vital to these fish, , did this just happen by it self?  No  a welled planned set up made this possible for fish to live , We as humans are greater  then fish our home is superb , every detail was well planned. There are many reasons why people do not believe in Almighty God and his word the bible. But to me we can accept many things we see and we know it did not appear on it's own. A well structured house is built ,can we assume when we first see it ,that it just  happen to be there without a designer and builder, No. Is this person imaginary No. Every thing has order down to our DNA .

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Have you noticed that there are in fact other religions making up about half of all the people on earth?

        1. Kiss andTales profile image23
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes I have noticed many religions all over the world, how they got started is very interesting, something like the theory tested in a class room. ,the teacher whispers a message to the first student , by the time the message is whispered and gets to the last student, the message repeated is totally distorted , the message has changed and even the meaning, But who really know the true message the one that gave it.

          1. janesix profile image60
            janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Then obviously the closer you get to the first "whisperer", the closer you get to the original message, right?

            According to what you just said, the farther back you go, the more truth in the message. You would end up somewhere in Sumer, or Egypt, wouldn't you?

            1. Kiss andTales profile image23
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What I am simply saying is that from the example  the message changed as it traveled around the class room, the message started with the teacher and first student she reached ,lets say the last student in the back gets the last whisper. He comes forward to repeat the message ,and it sounds nothing like what the teacher had said! What happen in between time?  The same as the truth . Many have handle the word of God  wrongly by twisting the  meanings and purpose. Just as that example of tropical fish was given well cared for , we as humans are wonderfully cared for despite those that have destroyed many good things on earth. And the truth and purpose for us as humans are about our happiness, Yes we see a different scene now ! Issues had to be settle on who has the right to rule us as creations. Certainly we have learned man has failed. We need the one who created us for happiness in the first place. Soon he will intervene.

              1. janesix profile image60
                janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You're saying the message changed. So the original message had to come before the distorted message, right?

                Take for example the story of Noah. The story of Gilgamesh came a couple of thousand years before the extremely similar story of Noah.

                So, according to you're own theory, Gilgamesh would have to be more correct than Noah.

                Right?

          2. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If you have noticed this, you should not make statements based on the assumption that the only possible options are Christian and atheist.

            I mean would you believe what a 'prophet' says of God when what he says about simple reality is 50% inaccurate?

            1. Kiss andTales profile image23
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Why should I believe your meaning of 50percent . You are a man also. I would believe in more then any man 's word. And yet the bible backs its words up. Used by man as secretaries written under the spirit of perfection.

              1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                LOL. Psycheskinner is a woman.

              2. Kiss andTales profile image23
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well  I can adjust that to woman.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So, it's both men and women? How about hermaphrodites?

                  Of course, you do realize the bible was written by men, right?

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image23
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    When I say man I am really saying from a human standpoint. This has nothing to do with  gender,

            2. Kiss andTales profile image23
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The story of Gilgamesh was known in the time of the flood, he was mention during the time of Mythological demigods, such as Hercules ,he was known as a Babylonian hero, during this period of time the earth was  full of violence sentence for destruction .because the nephilim  where half human and angel
              Causing a super hybrid. They where evil giants controlling the earth with violence ,Gilgamesh was mention among them.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image23
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                We are blessed ,All humans today came through Noah's bloodline . All others died in the flood.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Now why would you say that?  Animals native to the western hemisphere didn't die - why would you think the people would?  Or those in Australia, the far east, the pacific islands or any other location far from Noah. 

                  Actually, anything more than a few miles from Noah survived, including people.  So where does the idea that everyone is Noah's descendant come from?

            3. Kiss andTales profile image23
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              My words and meanings are not just based on Christian and Atheist  , only because this hub has the subject in mind I try to stay within the lines of subject, I am one that can easily jump on other related subjects, It does not matter what religion it is , if it is contaminated with untruth , or by its unclean religious practices, it is not considered valid ,or in good standing with the true God or Heavenly Father. In the  end he determines his approval.

    2. aka-dj profile image78
      aka-djposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome to the discussion.

      One quick question.

      Did you happen to take the time to watch the OP video?

      That was supposed to set the tone, & theme of this thread.

  14. Kiss andTales profile image23
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Why is very simple.  I will get back to you with info on the subject.  To start did you know that the Eyptains ,Greeks, Chinese, the Druids of Britain, Polyesains ,Eskimos, and Green landers.Africans, Hindus ,and American Indians ,all have flood stories.  I will continue info tomorrow . Appreciate your question. Thanks

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And do those peoples all have "their" flood dated at the same time?  Do they all die, to the last person, and cannot pass the information along?  Big floods leave behind definite geological evidence; does the earth show that everywhere. all at the same time?

      1. Kiss andTales profile image23
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Will be glad to answer your questions today.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It would be interesting to hear the answers.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      How would we know those stories if everyone except Noah and his family died?

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Looking forward to this.
        http://www.noahmovie.com/

 
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