I know that it will take all of 5 minutes for the atheists to jump on this, but it doesn't matter. The FACT is that Jesus is God. He came in the flesh, redeemed us through the shedding of His blood. He was crucified, died, was buried, went into Hell suffering our punishment. Jesus Christ certainly did rise from the dead, as many prominent eye witnesses did certify.
The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ finally defeated Satan and broke the power of the devil over every person who will receive Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
Eternal life is a FREE GIFT.
Anyone who wants eternal life can have it through Jesus Christ. And anyone who doesn't want eternal life doesn't have to take it. It is totally up to you.....
That if anyone shalt confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord Lord Jesus,
and, believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will
For with the heart, man receives right-standing with God, and with the mouth,
confession is made unto salvation..... Romans 10:9-10
Your evidence please? To claim these things as FACT does require a little more than a simple statement it is so...
Evidence? It's true because someone said it was true! What more evidence do you need other than the Bible? So what if accounts of Jesus were written by people who weren't present at the particular Jesus event and that Paul, who never met Jesus, wrote Jesus' whole biography 30 years after Jesus died in incredible detail! Everything you'll ever need to know is found in the Bible. Everything! Like how much to accept as payment to sell your daughter into slavery to dealing with talking snakes and four headed monsters! It's in there!
Someone attempting to sell a book is evidence of what again?
When you stop making inane remarks, look at the FREE video.
Watching an hour long video of what I suspect is some bozo telling me that an exploding star is proof that Jesus was a god isn't my idea of education. Particularly as it would point to Jerusalem at just one moment each night and could never be considered a guiding light to that town; it points to every town on the arc of it's travel, and that arc appears different at every point on earth.
So... you ask for proof, but, based upon your speculation that you "suspect ....some bozo telling me that an exploding star is proof that Jesus was a god isn't my idea of education."
I think that shows us exactly how high you are prepared to examine evidence of 'proof', especially when the evidence will cause you severe problems in your logic department IF you take the time to examine it.
But I agree it's simpler to troll people asking for evidence you will refuse to examine than to be a Berean and search diligently for the truth.
It doesn't take an hour to say "Look there really was a bright star in the sky at the right time, give or take a year or three". So what's the rest of the video? (I hate video's anyway, for the time lost compared to reading a statement)
Is it worth my time, or just pure speculation spun around a coincidental action and designed to give the appearance that Jesus was born?
Here's the gist:
"Larson’s basic premise is that a 3 BC conjunction of Jupiter (the “king” planet) and Regulus (the “king” star) marked Jesus’ conception and a later conjunction of Jupiter and Venus (in 2 BC) marked his birth. Larson then argues that, after the magi had traveled to Jerusalem, Jupiter reached a stopping point in its retrograde motion. At this point, according to Larson, Jupiter would have led the magi south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem."
That's absolutely incredible that anyone would come up with such nonsense, let alone that anyone else would believe it.
And a very good reason not to waste an hour of my life watching a video of somebody explaining how, without knowing the birthdate of Christ, he knows that a planet and star conjunction marked both the conception (again without knowing when it was) and birth. Now add in that at only one moment each night, a moment that varies each and every night, will Jupiter point south from any one location to another specific location and you have just what I said. Then consider that the conjunction with Venus was not visible from anywhere in the Eastern hemisphere except the southern part of Africa and it simply is not adding to anything but a very active imagination.
Some bozo spinning tales and wild imaginings to "prove" Christ was a god. I'm sorry, but all this proves is that some people are really, really gullible.
Cool video aguasilver. Thanks for sharing that. I really enjoyed his interpretation on the verses in Revelation.
Thanks, I found it well worth the investment of an hour to see what astounded me, and brought great clarity, clearly shown point by point.
My evidence is the Bible... Now, before you begin to refute the Bible, let us just settle it right here and right now.
Every contrary thing you will say is based in a belief of some sort. All scientific facts were at one time unknown and, many scientific facts have been deemed untrue by science it self.
So, I am adamant about my claims for Christ which are based in faith alone.
Do you still want my evidence?
I'm not much interested in "evidence" that exists only in your mind, that can be shown only with words, and that is based on your desire it be true, no.
Evidence is something I can see, can handle, can test, can examine. And if you have that I would be very much interested, though your statement that your "evidence" is based solely on faith and thus cannot be examined by anyone else seems to say you have no real evidence.
I might suggest that "facts" without supporting evidence are considered to be opinion in general communication; you might wish to modify your language a bit.
I told you everything you had to say that was contrary to my claim is based in some sort of "belief" but you ignored that.
You declare what evidence is to you. You blatantly say, "Evidence is something I can see, etc... You fail to realize that "evidence" is only considered evidence by the individual who is doing the examination.
The Bible is chock-full of evidence. Historically documented events that have stood the test of time, and which cannot be disclaimed.
And, I am well aware of the rules of evidence. Thank you, but, it wouldn't matter what I said to you.... you would disagree.
I am falling asleep in front of my monitor... I will continue with you tomorrow if you decide to post again. Have a wonderful night.....
I ignored the claim that I use belief rather than knowledge because it isn't true. No reason to say anything about it.
You're almost right - the bible has some verifiable history. Along with some really great stories that simply are NOT true, such as the great flood or living for days in the belly of a fish.
You're aware of the rules of evidence, then you know that opinion, feelings, subjective beliefs, etc. are not evidence. You also know that as the bible contains incorrect and false to fact stories, anything there must be verifiable from another source. So what DO you have to support the stated claim that it is a FACT that Jesus is a God, that he redeemed us, that he went to Hell, that he died and came back to life, that we can have eternal life, etc.?
I'm not far behind you, heading for that bed. Sleep well.
I am glad you are talking about the rules of evidence. There is a big gun, (more learned than I) who has done extensive work in an attempt to disprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ. His name may be familiar to you.... Simon Greenleaf.
This man began as an agnostic, which made his approach to Christian claims more biased toward the notion that the Bible was false. However, after applying the battery of tests to Christian claims. He conceded that the Bible is in fact true and the very Word of the Living God.
Here is an excerpt of his conclusions, and a link to his famous paper
[blue]Greenleaf’s most famous apologetic is an essay entitled, Testimony of the Evangelists Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered in Courts of Justice.2 Therein, Greenleaf applied the evidentiary rules of his day to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and concluded that the admissible evidence emitted thereby was sufficient to prove in any fair court of law that the resurrection of Jesus Christ was indeed fact—not hoax, myth or fiction. In short, Greenleaf reasoned that copies of the original Gospels extant (i.e., known to be in existence) in his time were at least as authentic as other works of antiquity the authenticity of which was acceptable in courts of law; that the veracity of the testimonies contained therein was demonstrable by internal and external examination (i.e., by examining the consistencies and resolving the paradoxes contained between them, and by comparing the Gospel accounts to corroborating works of other known writers of the time, such as Tacitus, Josephus and Seutonius, etc.); and that the most plausible, the most reasonable, conclusion to be drawn therefrom was that Jesus Christ not only lived and died, but that he arose again from the grave.[/blue]
- See more at: http://www.creationstudies.org/Educatio … iJZKs.dpuf
Link to his research paper: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f … nleaf.html
Wilderness, I forgot to mention that Greenleaf was a principal founder of the Harvard Law School and a world-renowned expert on evidence. - See more at: http://www.creationstudies.org/Educatio … iJZKs.dpuf
Let's see then.
Greenleaf says that copies of the gospels were at least as authentic as other works of the time, meaning they were old. He also says that he found the authors (unknown) to be honest, resolving the paradoxes between them - an interesting statement as they absolutely contradict each other in several places. Sounds more like he simply ignored the paradoxes and lies rather than resolving them.
He says that the copies of the gospels are corroborated by works of other known writers of the time, but no other writer mentions Jesus, the crucifixion or the resurrection.
And from all this he concludes that the various unknown authors of the gospels, known to be lying through their teeth in insinuating that they knew Jesus personally, and disagreeing with each other every other page, wrote the truth.
The unfortunate truth of the matter is that there are lots of people that are quite capable of reasoning logically, correctly and objectively...until it comes to their god and the beliefs about it. At that point it all falls apart and logic, truth and objective go right out the window if it doesn't agree with a pre-ordained conclusion.
There are no contradictions in the word of God. Understand both the culture and the context of the scriptures clarify anything that may look like a disparity. The 4 Gospels were written to introduce Christ to the 4 different cultural perspectives of the known world.
Matthew - Primarily written to the Jewish people to demonstrate that He is the Messiah they were looking for. The genealogy of Christ, the Hebrew and Aramaic names and customs mentioned in this Gospel were important to these converts because they connected to Old Testament which was familiar to them.
Mark - primarily written to converts form among both Romans and Greeks. They could care less about Jesus' connection to Judaism. They were concerned with what Jesus "did" or His "doings". Where Matthew records a vast number of parables, Mark only records 4. The balance of his message is the miracles that Jesus performed.
Luke- Luke was a doctor by profession and his gospel presents Jesus to the Greek mindset. Luke traces Jesus genealogy back to Adam, showing that Jesus is the Savior of all mankind; regardless of background, education or culture.
John - John's Gospel is written for all Christians. He shows Jesus as true God and true Man. it is written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name. (John 20:31).
Everything that happened in each of the gospels happened. No contradictions, just the fullness of the magnificent life of Jesus Christ, who is Lord.
Leslie, as you may well know there is more evidence for the life and death of Jesus Christ than for any other historical figure of Biblical (ancient) times, including Julius Ceasar. But, you are wasting your breath on these guys. They are just here to make fun. It's like a script they have to enact over and over again. They will continue to talk about "logic" and "evidence" although they clearly ignore it. At any rate, You might enjoy reading "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. Also, I'll include two videos for you to watch at your liesure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJCcsX4g9LI
Long story short, one cannot take the stories of the Bible out of context by placing the culture of 1st century Palestine smack dab in the middle of modern America, which of course, is just plain silly and does not even remotely make any sense. In other words, there is criteria that must be met to determine evidence--even archeological evidence. Again, it is important to remember that the texts of the Bible were based on 1st century documentation. This is very important, as is cultural context. Hope you have time to listen to the video. Craig Evans is a distinguished scholar who sets the bar high for understanding Biblical texts by utilizing what scholars call a "criteria for authenticity," which the Bible meets.
Best wishes to you in this New Year!
How unfortunate that you have to set this up based on false premises, what you say is completely untrue. But, since dishonesty is the choice method from believers to prove their points, it's not at all surprising.
You can't have any evidence if your claims for Christs are based on faith alone.
It's right there in front of you. In the form of a book that can be interpreted any way you like. So let your imagination run wild and you can form any type of God that would benefit your personal needs. Want to that forgives your pathetic butt. Bamm, there it is. Want one to keep your pathetic butt in line. Bamm, there it is. Want to that makes you feel loved and helped because of low self esteem. Bamm, there it is. Once I figure out what I need I'm gonna make me one too. Bamm. Good thing I'm a peaceful lady or I'd make me a vengeful monster like Hitler had.
You don't sound so peaceful with all those Bamms and butts.... you sound a little testy....
Also, we you have never read any portions of the Bible because is very clear about His character. He isn't PlayDough, you cannot form Him into the image you want Him to fit.
Now, you may make your own version of God and serve it, but my God has created me, and given me, a clear mandate on how I am to serve Him.
No, you're wrong. Odin Allfather is the real god. He saved us all from the ice giants. My proof? You don't see any ice giants today, do you!
I will pray for you, that you may learn the TRUTH. Hail Odin! Hail Thor! Hail Freya!
"You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't f*ck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself." -- George Carlin (R.I.P.)
I always wanted to have a landlord named Jesús so when proselytizers came to my door to ask if I have accepted Jesus as my lord, I could say yes.
True story (a bunch of years ago when I was in grade school), a nun told a parent that his boy, named Jesús, would have to be called something else because his name couldn't be "Jesus." I'm telling you, this is a true story!!!!
"The LORD" in your bibles rather than Yahweh?
Landlord is the greater supreme being of the golden rule, he owns most of the gold.
What exactly does an atheist converting to Christianity prove?
I mean, I'd be willing to wager that it's happened the other way around more often - religious people becoming atheist. Certainly it happens often.
Does that mean atheism is real and you yourself should consider it?
I'm not going to go around posting videos of ex-Christians finding the "truth" in hopes of proving to all other Christians that they are wrong. Because, well, a) I don't care what you believe as long as you're not hurting or discriminating against people and b) no one on the Internet is ever going to change someone's beliefs. This is a fact.
And frankly, you'll never be able to scientifically prove that the Christian god exists - certainly not from the Bible. I mean, all the gods in the history of humanity have an equal fighting chance of existing then, of course their own religious texts and mythologies are going to say they exist!
So, why don't you believe in any other god? If religious texts are proof, you should identify as every religion ever written.
If you're willing to take a historian's look at the Bible, without bias, you'll find that there's been enormous suggestion that yeah, the Gospels were written by people who never knew Jesus, a hundred years after his death. And of course any scientist worth his salt is going to give you a solid explanation on why the whole Adam and Eve story doesn't hold up.
If you spiritually have a relationship with God and are okay not taking everything literally, there's nothing anyone can do to argue with you. And it's okay you have that relationship, as long as you're not hurting other people. But here's the thing: atheists are also spiritually content without believing in a god. They don't need that relationship to live their lives to the fullest.
As an atheist, I also consider myself spiritual and therefore, in a sort of figurative, symbolic sense, can understand "spiritual relationships with gods." But I don't believe they are real, have no reason to believe they are real. And of all religions, I don't really think Christianity would be the easiest one to sell to me. If I could make myself believe something, I'd probably choose a different religion. But hey, to each one's own.
In answer to your first question, an atheists converting to Christianity does not prove anything, just what is there to prove? We want to share the new life that is found in Christ Jesus.
It is what it is.... Jesus loves you, I love you, you are just surrounded by love. And all Christianity says is open your heart and let the God that created you love you. Love is what changes people, not doctrine, not discussion, not debate....but love.
God loved you so much that He came to live as a human being and took the punishment that mankind deserved as a result of the first disobedient act. He fixed it for us!! He made it so that through His sacrifice we are set free.
Our real enemy is the devil and demons.... (you know that they are real). They are the ones who wreck havoc everywhere. In Jesus, we are delivered from the hand of the enemy.
There are many who have turned from Christianity as a religious practice; this is not to say that they have renounced Christ. Religion makes it hard to simply follow the Bible. People try and explain what they think the Bible means. God has set anointed teachers in the earth to teach the Bible; but He has also sent His Spirit to teach us.
But, He can't teach us if we don't submit to Him. The Bible truly is simple in its assumed complexity when revealed by the Holy Spirit. The natural mind cannot understand the things of God, for they are spiritually discerned.....
People will ultimately choose what they want to choose.... so be it. That does not deter the phenomenal love God has for each and every living person..... Love you...
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