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God and Adam

  1. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Does God have feet?
    This question is pondered because of a very interesting conversation I witnessed yesterday. It pertained to the spirit of Adam. He no doubt had spirit within him. He breathed the very breath of God. However,  when God said, "in our image" could he have meant, his own creation? 
    A further note:  God is spirit. He invented flesh; he formed the image of man especially from dust. Everything else was spoken into existence. Does our own image=my very own creation?
    My second point concerns the likeness part. Could "likeness" have referred to Adam's original immortality? He was not banned from the tree of life at this point.
    Any scripture to confirm or deny these possibilities?
    What are your thoughts?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I think no one can know.  You can make up any definition you like for "likeness" as any one is as good as any other.  God isn't going to tell you the truth, and it doesn't matter anyway - given that no definition is superior to any other.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I think a search of the scripture led by spirit would yield a very workable discussion and a more than likely conclusion based on all of scripture.
        Let us see what happens.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well, that's what I said!  A good imagination and a little reading and you have an instant definition, and one that even says whatever it was you wanted it to!

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            My bible doesn't change. It says what it says.
            "Rightfully dividing" is the tricky part when the spirit of the Lord does not lead.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, your bible says what it says.  It just doesn't mean what it means; your continual twisting and interpretation of the words have made that abundantly clear.  Indeed, the OP is another example when you ask what others think the words mean.

              What does "rightfully dividing" have to do with what "likeness" means?

      2. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        God already said what He intended MAN  to know;all He said is truth; He gave us gift of faith  to carry everyone of us into different level of " knowing Him "...HE IS , it's amazing how He introduced Himself to Moses," I AM". Does God have feet? Sure He does, says  my faith.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So He gave some people enough faith to fill the collection plate, others enough to feed from the collection plate, and the remaining large majority none at all so they will fill Hell with their tortured screams for His eternal pleasure. 

          Nice guy, your god...

          1. Michael-Milec profile image60
            Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Nice or not, ' God  has apportioned to each person a measure of faith.' (Romans 12:3). some do develop their portion of faith by choice , well -its a free market so that everybody makes decision to blame himself instead to blame me...

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It's nice if you believe the PR, for you at least. 

              But there isn't even a hint of truth to the statement; too many people throughout history have had no faith and too many do not today. 

              To think otherwise is to believe that people that have never heard of your god nevertheless have faith that it exists.  Nonsense.

              1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The Creator of the Universe- for not better term, called ' God' made it very plain for everybody - in their inner consciousness He  has revealed Himself since the very beginning  His  invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity has been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through things that have been made= His handworks. So men are without excuse- altogether without any defense or justification… Whoever want to see, can see the heavens declaring the glory of God as the firmament shows and proclaimed His handwork.
                So, there is room for " to think otherwise" - just don't , please, blame me for  my choice to use my faith while the opposition practices other option.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Nice thoughts again, but they are without foundation.  They all boil down to your personal imagination and faith, not to anything factual. 

                  For your god has NOT made anything plain; if He had there would not be thousands upon thousands of differing opinions.  He has never revealed Himself at all, let alone since the beginning.  His supposed invisibility does NOT translate into power OR divinity, and has not been made intelligible or discernible, particularly through things that came to be without any action on His part.  Things such as the universe, sun and earth.

                  I shall not blame you for using faith, no, as long as you do not attempt to present your opinion and faith as fact.  It is not, and you have zero evidence it IS factual.  Looking at the sky, formed by natural actions without interference from a creator, and declaring there WAS a creator does not make it so.  Your faith is yours, and is not transferable to anyone else.  It certainly cannot be forced on anyone.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    H'm, it started with " God and Adam", meaning this forum and next dialog.Whenever these two are in focus, all the biblical account of the relationship or broken relationship was that Adam's distrusting the Creator for   exchange to put "faith "  elsewhere. This thing called faith is amazing : once a person develops it , begins  trusting the truth of the Word, is ahead of those who don't . By faith it is that we understand that he universe has been made by God's word, so that what we see came into being from what we cannot see. (Heb.11:3) To diminish "speculation " of those who live by faith , we are told "No one has ever seen God, and yet the one in human body who is divine, who is closest to the Father has show us who he is,"(John 1:18). Complex simplicity of God is manifested by deeds and explained  by the words as we follow Jesus from Nazareth recorded in the history of His time. Yet remain flexibility without faith freely  create thousands upon thousands of different opinions…even to the point denying of existence of God- being nothing new,- as we read in Psalm 14:1 " The…( you know this, everybody is familiar with this verse)… The king David's explanation of behavior of those denying God, has help me to make right decision to know  and to believe what is right in order to do the same , because God's word  says righteous are living by faith. Simple, undeniable simple : My  faith is mine, isn't transferable to anyone.Everyone has received portion of faith . Everyone has choice to be happy and blessed. For that purpose all this exchange; someone has been looking for the answer to this matter, and we only  are the instruments of divine Wisdom.

                2. Oztinato profile image84
                  Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree Michael-Milec!
                  it is a mistake for others to want people to follow a specific set of dogmas they happen to follow: that kind of reasoning is not strongly based on he Love principle. Yes they might love their own ideas but a bigger and better Love will find a way to embrace other philosophies as long as they tolerate others and don't try to injure those who have different views.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The bible didn't say tolerate other stuff. He said come away from them, one way to the father. If you love me, keep my commands, and how can two walk together lest they agree? And you are for me or against me. We know a fruit... You who are spiritual restore your brother and on and on and on.
                    He did not compromise his position. No discussion about which road the disciples preferred. Or what idea they preferred.
                    There really is no wiggle room on the standard; it is what it is. Petty quarrels over words among the followers was prohibited I think Paul said that. But to deny any leads to denying more.

    2. 0
      Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Cg, I studied this in my 20s and believe that Jesus was Melchizedek, the incarnation of God in the OT. For sure, according to scripture, Jesus was there at the beginning with God and the NT says the whole world was created by him and thru him. God sent Jesus to be His hands and feet and now that Jesus has returned to the Father, His children are awarded that calling. Good thread. smile

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I'm very interested in what you studied.
        I always found it mind boggling that Adam was created in the image and likeness of God; but he was made of flesh. If God has no flesh, what is the term in my image referring to? Well, in my own image could mean the image he came up with? He actually formed Adam; but spoke everything else into existence.  Can you recall anything that would help to confirm or deny this line of thought? It is really interesting to me. And I do value your spiritual connection; as well as a few others here.
        Thanks smile

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The bible. lol

        2. Dr Lamb profile image61
          Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Here is the thing, scripture can and is vague on purpose so you can make your own stuff up. Does God have feet? Why would he need feet? If he has a body he would be measurable. First one needs to decide if there is evidence that said God exists and then would have to decide what said God is. But the logical answer to your question about man being made in Gods image would be that we would be like him/her in personality and emotions.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So not a "spitting" image; but a spiritual one? God is not measurable. So, no "body" per se... I think this is what you are saying and it makes sense.
            I was taught that this "image" looks like God. But that really does not make much sense. God does not have flesh.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I hope the above verses will help with that.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Beth! You're killin' me!!! Lol wink
                One moment I think you're for, the next, I'm not sure.
                Clearly you are light. But I'm not sure if you are agreeing with look alike or no. smile
                Do you think Adam looked like God or is the image spiritual and or simply God's very own creation?
                I'm just not positive how you interpret the scriptures. I just want to be sure I see the full picture of what God is most likely saying. I know you can help me clear it up in my head. Thanks for bearing with me.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I read too fast and miss ppl's main points all the time. So sorry.

                  Do I think Adam looked like God? Yes, b/c we are made in his image. Does that mean God is flesh and bone? No, God is spirit, as scripture says.

                  What do I imagine? That God is spirit that has the similar appearance to man.

                  I Cor 2:9
                  However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

                  I Cor 13:12
                  For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

                  I believe we cannot fully imagine the things of Heaven, but I have total faith that what I don't know, I don't have to know now and He will reveal all things when we are face to face. That is good enough for me.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Yet...we cannot look upon God; his glory will destroy us.  But we can look on each other without problem.  How can we look like the glory of god without causing harm?

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you! A great sigh of relief. smile
                    I too believe we cannot imagine. It just does not seem fathomable.
                    To say we can't imagine (which I agree with) and then say all we have to do is look in the mirror (which I'm mentally flip-flopping) seems kinda... confusing? 
                    I guess I do know that we may only speculate and this point is not of urgency to a spiritual walk. I just feel like a kid in a candy factory. smile can't you feel me tugging at your hem along each aisle? Lol!!! lt popped into my head and I threw it out there.
                    The scriptures you provided were key. The mirror was enlightening.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Did Adsm look like God? Yes,my faith confirms ,"  No one  has ever seen God; the unique one, who is divine, who is close to the Father, has shown us who he is" (J.1:18); " He who has seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father ( (God), (J -14:9; 11.) Pilate pointing to Jesus from Nazareth said " look, here is the man." ( J.19:5). Adam, ( first) - God's chosen representative of human race. Created in His image- likens - so little of description at the " creation" story- all and everything with the " second Adam" Jesus conformed to the nature of God." My " discussion " in this matter begins and ends in faith, and I am more than persuaded by my trust in the Creator - faith it is giving me peace because as children of the Most high God we are born of His  Spirit - spiritual likeness- at the present rime we can see the bodily form  only.

            2. Dr Lamb profile image61
              Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You've got it. If that helps you.

            3. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              A painting looks like flesh, too, but has no flesh itself.  Neither would a bronze bust or even the voodoo doll the witch doctor uses, but they would all look like the model; they would have the "likeness" of the model.

        3. 0
          Beth37posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          God created the Earth
          Gen 1:1 a
          1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

          Who was helping Him create the Earth?
          26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
          27 So God created mankind in his own image,
              in the image of God he created them;
              male and female he created them.

          The NT says it was Jesus with God, creating the Earth
          John 1
          1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

          God is not body, He is spirit
          John 4:24
          "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

          So who was walking with man in the garden?
          Gen 3:8
          Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

          Jesus is the embodiment of God
          John 1:18
          No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
          John 6:46
          No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

          Verses on Melchizedek
          http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib … lchizedek/

          1. Dr Lamb profile image61
            Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What do you think that "our" is about?

            “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness"

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I lean toward Jesus being with God in the beginning. It makes the most sense to me.

        4. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So if Eve was formed from Adam's rib then she was a clone. She must have had his genetic material, so that would make her a man?

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Good thought. But God formed her differently. She had her very own stuffs that distinguished her from the man. She was not the forethought that Adam was. She came to enhance his experience and give him children smile she plays a very important role in the complete aspect of things. She was the very last creation. But certainly not least. smile God topped off his creating with woman. She was the last work he put his hands to. Adam was impressed.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image60
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, Adam was impressed all the time even before he could see the excitement, beauty and the rest accommodated in his rib - until the Creator have presented her to him. Next is giving us a spontanious answer to "HIS OWN IMAGE" -- ( humanity will never gues aright to determine God's "gender"- hey HE IS FIRST OF ALL THE SPITIT- taking bodily form , including Jesus from Nazareth)-- as we are told " in the image of GOD created He him MALE AND FEMALE created He them. This is where my faith knows the truth abou the God-Creator - even my Heavenly Father. (( he/she applies to the bodily form of humanity, no spirit  included).

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That rings true for me.

            2. Disappearinghead profile image89
              Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You haven't answered the question though. If God did not use the genetic material in Adam's rib to create Eve, and seeing as all the complex chemical constituents to make a human are not all present in a human bone, then why bother with the bone? For the bible to be literally true as you appear to believe, it should say something along the lines of "Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, altered the genetic make up, and added in some further chemical compounds and minerals that he dug out of the Earth."

              1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The answer is there! The " God " is the Creator, he does things in His unique way. All those who believ already know.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  All those who believe already believe; knowledge is not a part of the belief equation.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The  Wisdom is!  " the chief wisdom is the awe of the YAHWEH .( Prov.1:7)
                    ' Getting wisdom is the wisest thing  you can do!'
                    No apology might do any change,  ' we do walk by faith not by...' Once on that journey , there isn't looking back - " wisdom is the principal thing ; therefore get wisdom; yea with all  your getting, get understanding.."( Prov. 4:7)  you can use different translations of this message, however without  the Holy Spirit and faith , well, -the results might lead to endless   dialog to which none of us has time, and  my choice is not to continue in that direction.

              2. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well where were you when they organized the canon? That's brilliantly described!  wink
                God gave her her very own chemical make-up. She had to do things that her guy was not made-up to do. smile she was not given his strength, so she needed his protection. She was made of him not like him.
                The genetics are original. We may only speculate as to what they must have been before death took over. The Lord must have needed to make some changes for adaptation to the newer dying world with its thorns and stuff.

          2. 63
            wayne92587posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Eve was not a Man, Mankind, he and she, Adam, mortal Man, the Flesh Body was born of the dust of the ground, was born of ordinary, natural means, the Evolutionary Process, cause and effect.
            Eve is just another side of Man, he a she, Mankind, Mankind's second Nature, is a Creation, is not born of ordinary, natural means, Evolution, cause and effect.
            Being a Creation Eve, was born of magic, out of nowhere, was born of God, created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God, Eve being Mankind's Spiritual Body, Adam being Mankind's Mortal, Flesh Body.

            It is Man's, his and her, Mankind's destiny, God's will for Man to walk the Earth having both a Flesh Body and a Spiritual  Body.
            Before Man's Spiritual Body can rise up, the Flesh Body must be laid to rest, the desires of the Flesh must die so that the Passion, the Boundlessness, of the Immortal Spirit, before Mankind can be made manifest a Free Spirit.

            1. 63
              wayne92587posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Satisfying the desires of the Flesh Body is not an act of Free Will.

        5. Oztinato profile image84
          Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The logical conclusion would have to be that it is the Sentience Itself of God that has been repeated in man. We are fully sentient beings and this is a God like quality or "image"/"likeness" that the Bible is referring to.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you. I feel that we're on to something. smile
            We are also able to "rule" our surroundings/make decisions, and control our thoughts.
            How do you feel about "likeness" being used to point out that Adam was created immortal "like" God?
            For the record, I don't believe that this is anything more than minor discussion about the deeper things/meaning of scripture. Belief either way is not something that will count against anyone. We also know, through the spirit,  the important matters of the law we have been given. We know his voice.
            And you sound familiar smile

        6. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Two different words are used in original Hebrew describing the creation of  man in " God's"  'likeness' and 'image'. By now we know that "God is  a spirit",- infinite, neither limited by parts nor definable by passions. He can have no corporal image  after which he made he body of man. The image and likeness must necessarily be intellectual ; His mind, his soul must have been formed after the nature and perfection of God. God was producing a spirit- a spirit too, form after the perfection  of his own nature. Thus God made man in such a way  as to reflect same of his own perfections- perfect in knowledge, righteousness and holiness-  and such resemblance qualified man for dominion; constituting man lord of all creatures that are destitute of intellectual and moral endowments. If you like a man in partnership with the Creator  supposed to be a "god" on Earth as The God is God in heaven.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Adam was made "god" of the fishies and stuff. smile I see what you mean though. Image and likeness. Spiritual. It just seems that flesh would put the body of man in a totally different category of spiritual.
            SirDent kind of prompted this line of thought when he spoke of the spirit aspect of Adam. And he has not input as of yet. Hopefully, we will hear from him. I really would like to know where he is on this.
            Do you know if the body of Adam was transformed at all by his disobedience? Was he changed? I know his body started the process of dying at that moment but did it change him physically?  Do we have word on that?

      2. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Beth,
        is this a Mormon belief? I love and respect the Mormons but i don't necessarily adhere to all their beliefs.
        I know their men practice a "Melchizedek priesthood" today.

        1. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Not just Mormons.  smile

          When a Catholic priest is ordained, he becomes "a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."  Words directly from the ordination and directly from Scripture as well.

          Just thought I'd toss that in there.

          1. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I understand that Melchizedek was a great priest of high repute etc.
            Once again the problem arises between the different denominations as to who is supposed to have a "monopoly" on the priesthood.
            Reading the scriptures of various denominations and religions with Love in one's heart easily solves the problem, but reading with the eyes of blind dogma causes confusion.
            Love says that each religion is allowed its own priesthood and all are equal. Blind dogma says the opposite.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Wow...!!! So that's what you want to convey?  Anything goes??? Ok.
              But that is not what Jesus taught. That is what I follow.

              1. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No; I said only  things that are based on Divine Love are from God.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What biblical things are there that meet your loving requirement? Which part meets the human standard of love?
                  In other words; which parts of the bible may we actually believe to be the word of God? Have you put together a reference of those texts that should be blotted?

    3. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      allegory
      ˈalɪg(ə)ri
      noun
      1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        that's a great start.

    4. 0
      SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Rev 1:15  And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

      This is speaking of Jesus, the Alpha and Omega.   Feet like fine brass. 

      Adam was created in the image and likeness of God.  Sin free, naked (not needing clothing). 

      When Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he changed.  The spiritual man became carnal and he then needed clothing to cover his nakedness (shame).

      1. Michael-Milec profile image60
        Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Gen.2:17…' for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.' Adam died the same day he sinned - failed the test of trussing the Creator- the only FATHER he ever had , turned to believe lie of the satan. By being found guilty, man became a mortal creature, the image of GOD in him was deformed-- prolonging our curiosity of " i m a g e   and   l i k e n e s s  of GOD.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I do like where you went there. It is like we may not know the fullness of the image and likeness until the return of Christ. Adam changed when he sinned. He could no longer remain in his original form. The knowledge of nakedness is key. The fact that he began the process of death at that moment is also telling.

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
        EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No problem then, all we need to do is join Nudist Colonies and we'll all be sin free.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Renewing of mind is what it takes.
          Nakedness causes sin in many arenas. wink

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            How does nakedness cause sin?

            Don't you really mean the lust inside a person?  Not the skin on the outside?

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I am sure that's what she meant.  Nakedness tempts people.

              1Jn_2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Everything tempts people to do something bad.  Food, drink, hot cars, money - everything can be abused.  But it is not the hamburger that is evil, or the medium of exchange we call "money".  It is the person with the desire bigger than their morals.

                Nakedness is not evil, but the lust of the person viewing human skin can be.  So there is nothing inherently evil about nudist colonies in spite of the comment that nakedness causes sin.  It doesn't.

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this
                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, Adam did the right thing by covering up his nakedness. You people should really try to get your stories straight.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  For some, restraint is of a steel quality. But I would say that for many more, the eyes take us on amazing journeys.
                  Nakedness was not sinful before sin entered. But now Adam has a much different view of the booty.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Restraint need be only stronger than desire.  People CAN learn to control their emotions; just ask Mr. Spock.

                    But if god did not mean for man to have sex he would not have ordered them to perform the act.  Sex is not evil, either, and the only prohibition I recall is to stay away from the neighbors wife.  HE is up for grabs, but not his wife.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You are contradicting yourself. If Adam was created naked, (in the image of God), then that would mean the image of God is a temptation.

                How do you resolve this contradiction?

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  God don't need no swinging things wink he makes children with his hands. The tempting parts are not there.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Gibberish. Try to come up with something thoughtful rather than just stringing random words together.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The appearance of naked t'na or bulging other stuff arouses thoughts that most likely should not be there for many. One could not even be thinking lasciviously; then one flash of the flesh...
              Ya know??? smile

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No, I do not know.  People are responsible for their own thoughts, just as they are their actions.  Blaming sinful thoughts on someone else is no different than blaming sinful actions on someone else.  Or on Satan; while there are millions of scapegoats out there, people ARE ultimately responsible for themselves.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The bible tells us that we may cause others to sin. And we will be held responsible.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It may well say that.  Doesn't matter - everyone is responsible for their own actions at the root.  No one else.

                    And in this matter, Wilderness trumps bible.  Our world is slowly deteriorating into people that cannot and will not accept responsibility for themselves, that will blame someone else, something else, anything but themselves for what they do.  And it is already hurting society as it degenerates into the concept that anything is OK because it's someone else's fault.

                    It isn't.  Our own actions belong to us, not someone else, and we are responsible for them.  Best that we learn that, and if it means the bible is false so be it.  It isn't the first time that has happened and it won't be the last.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                But, nakedness is the image of God. Are you saying the image of God "arouses thoughts that most likely should not be there for many"?

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No.  The "image of God" has been redefined to indicate "spiritualness", or "mind" or some other invisible attribute, depending on the speaker.  Just not physical appearance even though that's what it says.

  2. 60
    melvinmcken9posted 2 years ago

    God has an immortal body of flesh and bones as well as spirit.  Man was created in "our image", that is in the image of God the Father and His son, Jehovah.  Jehovah was the God of the OT and Jesus Christ in the NT.   Melchizedek was mostly likely one of Noah's sons, Shem.  Adam was the premortal Michael the Archangel

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Please tell me where you got it that God was flesh and bones? That really would be helpful.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Cgenaea
        it seems that God can take on flesh and bones if He/She wants to. Advanced spiritual ideas suggest God is pure intelligent energy that can do whatever He/She wants to.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          For sure. But made of flesh and bones???

          1. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I often refer to the wisdom of the Hindu philosophy where all of us are seen as "gods" within so God is depicted as having many heads and arms and feet to symbolise this idea. Another view would be to consider the idea of a God to be the correct story out of millions of possibilities so therefore such a Being could take on a human form like JC etc and have for a time flesh and bones.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I agree. But that does not sound like the point. Adam being flesh was not spirit but spiritual.  Godly but not God. He was God's creation. Likeness/image I was trying to get a full understanding of what he meant by in those two terms.

              1. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yes I think we are basically in agreement here.
                My understanding of the generally accepted spiritual theory is that our "souls" are the "God part"  that is housed in the physical body (with its feet!)
                Hence if God Himself wanted to take on a physical form He would be the spiritual soul of that particular body eg. JC, Buddha etc.
                So we are two forms in one: one soul plus one body. ie Adam was a man with a spirit soul.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sounds good. It seems as though we agree. The God part is separate and unequal smile flesh is given a biblical bad rap (reputation) and to dust it shall return.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          As god comes from another universe, a universe with natural laws much different than our own, it would seem more likely that god is composed of matter/energy/something that is totally foreign to our universe.  To say that he is made of the same energy that our universe is composed of would seem wrong from the start.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I kinda hear what you're saying there. He created this world and formed the people he placed in it. It does not seem that any of the material used would be of himself but that was part of the point of this forum. When God said "in his image", I felt that maybe he could have meant the image he made up own his own rather than Adam being a mirror image.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I meant that god does not follow the rules of our universe; presumably the "materials" he is built of do not either.  He cannot, then, be flesh and blood.

              But not sure what you mean - He made up an image in His mind and copied that imagined image onto man?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Kinda. He spoke everything else into existence. He did not even take part in giving the beast and his own kind or the crawling creepers nor the swimmers their names. But Adam and Eve he formed especially. In his (very own creation) image. Can you feel me??? smile

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No.  What a "(very own creation) image" means I have no idea.  Any more than I can decipher what "... he could have meant the image he made up own his own..." means.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You're killin' me Wilderness! smile
                    Ok, instead of, "in our own image" we could replace that with "my very own masterpiece that I will put together myself" 
                    It just sounds logical to me at this point. I just never understood "in my own image" if one is flesh and one is spirit. God can be what he wants. Does he have an image per se? Just my thoughts.  I was hoping someone could give me a confirm or deny based upon scripture. Beth did well. But I am still wondering. With your statement that he must not be flesh and blood; I agree...

              2. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Wilderness
                That's a lot of lot of supposing. In the larger scheme of things does it matter if God is the same energy or not as the rest of the universet?

  3. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    Wow that's wierd cuz I had a dream about God's feet only two nights ago. He was walking and I could hear His footsteps.

  4. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    It can be an error to take a parable literally as this could lead us into missing the point of the parable. If a metaphor is robotically taken literally it can cause misunderstandings. If a poem is taken mindlessly literally the beauty can be missed. The Bible is made up of history, poetry, parable, metaphor and even humour; so we need to discern when to take something "literally" and when not to.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I agree there too. How do you suppose we keep from such egregious err? Holy spirit is my guess what do you think?.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I had to look that word up! (egregious)
        If you mean 'how do some people stop making that same terrible error of bible interpretation" yes I think its the Holy Spirit in two senses of the word. First The Holy Spirit Itself,  and then our own individual sensible compassionate holy spirit within. There seems to be too many religious people "taking things literally" when they are not supposed to for hidden agendas; sometimes very deeply hidden agendas! Many atheists, but not all, are also very very good at making the same bad errors of taking the wrong things literally: they often seize on this common error to mock religious points of view. in other words an atheist can deliberately use false logic without a religious motive but a political one.
        In all the confusion the Truth of course remains immovable.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I believe that the Lord made his words somewhat cryptic on purpose.  We have so many things that only true children of God may pick up on. His sheep know his voice; a stranger they will not follow

  5. 0
    Emile Rposted 2 years ago

    I haven't read through the thread and I know you have little respect for my opinion, but I'll share me penny's worth.

    If God is the observer, making judgments and coming to conclusions on the ultimate point of reality, then each human is in God's image. We possess that ability.

    God, by the text, made some sharp turns in his assessment of his creation. He found peace with the way the things he set in motion played out. He found the good in others and focused on it. And committed to focusing on it through the story of the sacrifice. The world, itself, didn't change first. He changed his attitude first.

    We have the ability to change our perception, just as he did. We also possess the ability to mold the perception of other life by our interactions with them. We aren't solely driven by instinct.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I have great respect for the way you put thoughts together. It's like you have a 7th sense. smile
      The instinct comes from the brain. What else do you suppose we could be driven by?
      And will you also please explain what you mean by God changing his attitude first?

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The Old Testament view of God was one of a vengeful, wrathful God. Do as I say, or suffer the consequences. Bow to me and be blessed. Don't and regret it later. He belonged to Israel and they belonged to him through a contract made in the wilderness.With the exception of the creation story, that God was reactive through the entire text.

        I don't think you can look at the gospels and see the same God. That one chose to love the world, when the world did not know him. That one chose to send a gift when no one had asked for it, no one understood it and they couldn't fully appreciate it. That one was proactive.

        If it is the same God, then that God made some serious attitude adjustments toward humanity somewhere between the end of the Prophets and the appearance of Jesus.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          +1  The god of the OT was a spoiled, cruel, vicious child and nothing like the god of the NT.  Somewhere along there He had a massive change and grew up or something.

          *edit  Or the people that designed him decided that enough was enough.  We've seen that even after the changes in the NT: god made the crusades, the inquisition, the witch burning, etc., but given time god always has a change of heart and rejoins civilization.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The way I see it, the God of the OT is the same, bow to me or suffer kind of guy as in the NT. Jesus came to show us the true mind of God; and what it all means.
          In the OT, the instruction was for the travelers. He wanted to keep them pure and unspotted. They did not listen. Then enters Jesus right on schedule. smile he provided a way of escape from the death of sin. He showed us how to do the word of God.
          God has not changed. And he never will. He will be doing a final sweep of those who do not listen. He promised.

          1. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I suppose you can count me in the ones swept. Because, I honestly wouldn't want to have anything to do with a God like that. I'd grab onto the broom straws and jump away as far as possible when the broom reached full extension. Those who chose to stay would probably have a sad awakening after it was too late to do anything.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That's interesting. To place oneself in the f- it category is remarkable. We each have our own decision to make though. God deals with our cognition. That area is very powerful. He made the way easy and potentially successful. No must for walking it if one would prefer swept.
              However, he WILL allow a big change of "attitude" as long as one lives. smile

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Honestly, genea. I don't foresee an attitude adjustment. I believe that the Divine is more than what you perceive it to be. I don't think it sits in judgment of us.

                Now, if the horror stories you want us to believe to be true are, then I'm not interested in participating.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Really?  You don't see another attitude adjustment?  I do.

                  It will start with the treatment of gays, when "god" decides they aren't all evil after all.  It will continue slowly, backing off the requirement that all mankind follow his rules, and allowing tolerance to enter the world of His followers. 

                  I actually foresee, in the next 50 years or so, as great an attitude adjustment as between old and new testament.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh. I must have misunderstood. I thought she was saying her god would allow me to adjust my attitude to accept her idea of who it is.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Gays are not beyond the mercy of God. Most that I have met, don't want it. Putting on the mind of Christ is necessary. But since that mind breaks one's comfort level with things that are sinful most people prefer their own minds. Not many people like to walk his path; as easy and successful as it is.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I understand. Many people follow you on that. The divine is not really perceivable. He gave instruction possibly for that reason. The horror stories are real. I will not participate in them either.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, if Jesus was flesh and blood I would think he would have been perceived. Are you saying the apostles couldn't see him? Or, that he didn't perceive God? You lost me.

        3. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The O.T. view of God is righteous, in first place and in certain cases " jealous ' and rightly so as you can find in reading the Book carefully. This world is His world, He is the Master of the universe leading the history of mankind on very well design course.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, at least His followers claim it is His world and that He is the Master.  God himself has never bothered to say anything himself, to show himself or even to let any hint of activities due to Him.

            Followers of other gods make a little different claim as well; the bottom line has to be that maybe it's all His, maybe not but the odds are very much against it.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So which chance will man take???

          2. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            See, it's responses such as yours to which i can only assume a stance of fear propels such comments. A one which also assumes every thought will be weighed to determine if you've payed homage to a liege lord correctly. I can't fathom such. Tell me, if i created a mini environment in a bubble, put sentient and sapient beings inside, can you imagine a 'righteous' moment when i could annihilate them to satisfy a jealous whim? If i did such, would I be a good God?

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You don't know how to kill nobody right! smile lol

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                1. Oztinato profile image84
                  Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  This is why I sometimesrefer to the compassion of the Hindu philosophy and the concept of reincarnation. It seems to be the truestexample of a real compassionate God and the neatest way to deal with sin. It also removes hell out of the equation. I am inter denominational.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The bible says that there is hell. The bible also says that we cannot make up our own rules. That is not a stab at any other religion. It simply means that Christianiy is tied to the bible. It is what Christians believe. ALL of it. Those who pick and choose what they will have faith in/adhere to biblically are simply not on the path that Christ paved. Truth is truth. Where else do we find the words of Christ??? He said be doers and not hearers only. You look in the mirror and forget the image as soon as you turn away? Christians are convicted by many parts of scripture.  They do not puff up become proud and become haughty. They bow their heads in sorrow and pray to be healed. Christians love above all else. Love hurts sometimes. smile and the smack on the face in the face of truth, really hurts sometimes. I know that well!!!
                    But Jesus was not a conformer. He did not giggle and laugh with those who did not believe him. He ran with those who knew they needed what he had.
                    The bible is called reproof for those on the path. Not a history book to be poked at. He hid the message well from those who do not follow. He laid the path biblically.  To pick and choose what we will or will not agree with is not tolerated. He is not negotiating a contract. He did that already. What from the old must we adhere to??? Jesus told us in the new. We are not contracting. We are WALKING the path already laid already. Nothing added. Absolutely nothing subtracted. Jesus paid the cost to be the... he says what right is. When you have the FREE EAR you hear him.
                    ***FREE EARS AVAILABLE AT A LOCATION IN YOU!!! wink
                    *while supplies last

                  2. 0
                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I respect Hinduism. I'm not sure how prevalent reincarnation could be, especially human to human, but anything is possible.

                    The Christian belief of hell can't be resolved to a loving God. It can't be easily resolved to the bulk of Jesus's teachings and it's impossible to resolve to what he stated are the two commandments all others hinge on.

                    I don't not respect their belief completely, since at its core it must begin with the premise that the person who holds such a belief is not worthy of heaven. There is humility there. And, the belief that we are all, at our core, alike is something i do agree with, I simply don't think we are bad

                    So, when they expand this view into a cosmic view, beginning with a position of insecurity causes the creation of an insecure God. Of course the fact that this entity will overlook their shortcomings would cause that entity to have to look for them harder in others. If it didn't, how could the scales of justice make sense? They know what they believe to be wrong. They have deemed themselves guilty of crimes. Someone must pay.

                    But, no father worthy of the capitalization of the f would want his children to live in self loathing. Nor would he expect them to hate the rest of humanity, hoping for their ultimate demise. But, as long as humanity judges one another we will live with insecurity since none of us are perfect. And we will hide our insecurity through attempting to highlight the shortcomings of others.

  6. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Uh...and your commercial was too long.
    Lol...

  7. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I just remembered that Jesus very consistently rebuked his followers for fear, doubt, and disbelief.
    God did not supply us with the spirit of fear. When we suffer that emotion, we are not dealing with a holy spirit. No offenses intended. Truth of bible.
    If I were rich, I would find each of you and take you to dinner or recreation, or bowling, or Acapulco smile we'd kick it; and you would see how cool I am. I'm also very over myself. This is not a need to beat anyone over the head with anything.  Honest. I just input something from scripture to confirm or deny. It is how I check myself.  We are definitely ok to agree to disagree.

    1. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think we disagree as much as you think.  Jesus did rebuke his followers when their faith wavered - as he does for me when I have moments of doubt or fear or find myself struggling to trust.  But he never let Peter sink when he began to sink as he was walked on the water.  When the disciples feared the storm while he slept, he didn't abandon them or lessen his love for them.  And when Thomas asked, he allowed him to touch his wounds.  He didn't tell him his faith was unsatisfactory.

      I trust-even when I doubt.  I trust-even when I'm anxious or afraid.  And I've never been let down.  And, oh how I've been chastised and continue to walk through the refiner's fire daily! 

      It's just the ways in which you and I express our faith that make the difference-and that's totally okay.

      smile

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Ok by me smile

      2. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The is a big difference between a little parental rebuking and the wholesale slaughter of entire races.
        God rebukes, man slaughters.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Right. And Jesus rebuked all the time for faithless and fear. To say doubt is about being human is cloudy. Jesus knew they were human but no excuses were provided for faithless or fearful. Truth is all that matters.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          ??!! The wholesale slaughter of innocent Egyptian first born is not "parental rebuke"??  Ordering His followers to another nation, to kill or enslave every living being there is "parental rebuke"??  Wiping out entire cities with fire and brimstone, including children and infants is "parental rebuke"????

          I'm glad you're not MY parent!

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oh that... well, the Egyptian first-borns were killed as a sign that the hand of the Lord was involved and serious about his people being released.
            The land they were able to seize had been given them. They were instructed to take the land. No concern for the inhabitants taking it back or bringing their ungodly practices into the fold.
            Sodom and Gomorrah?  Not one good man???
            I cannot sit in judgment of God the father. He has always had a plan for the purity of his people who are in the world; but because of trust and faith in him alone are not of the world. It has nothing to do with being special or respected over others; it has to do with the covering of the spirit with the blood of the one special son. That blood makes one clean in the eyes of the Lord. Scarlet sins become white as snow; not through your actions, but your faith that shows.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The Egyptians weren't "parental rebuke" then, but certainly was still "wholesale slaughter".  Just as the neighbors the Jews were instructed to kill and enslave.  I wonder if God would give me your house?  And you and your family to have as slaves as well?

              Knowing the reaction to S&G, I specifically spoke of the children and infants there.  Were they all evil, too?

              You may not sit in judgement of your God, but I definitely will, and that evil creature is not fit to shine my shoes.  Not if it is as described in the sacred writings it produced through man.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The Lord does things differently now. smile Have you ever heard of the new testament?  It was a turning point. Jesus came; fulfilled the law and mixed the races. Now the bible does say that the treasures of the wicked are stored up for the righteous. He probably won't take MY house and give it to YOU, but... wink
                He was not a parent of the Egyptians in that time. So you are RIGHT there (+1)!!! As for shoe shining? That may be the least of worry for now. We've got bigger fish to fry. smile

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You mean your lord hasn't committed any atrocities for some time; an eye blink in His lifespan.

                  Unfortunately that doesn't mean He won't turn on us again.  Perhaps another dinosaur killer, or a rogue sun spinning through the solar system.  It might give him a giggle to turn the sun off for a month or so and deep freeze the world, killing all life once and for all.

                  Who knows with that psychopath?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Please get hand sanitizer. smile you just got your fingers dirty. Lol

          2. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            eer.......I said that wholesale slaughter is not from God but from man.
            Got it?

  8. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Slaughtering races? Is there a biblical race slaughter? Oh Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah??? But that wasn't race slaughter. It was some kind of a hole slaughter; disobedience and evil and lie preferences.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely.  The infants in Sodom were disobedient (at 2 months of age), evil and lied all the time.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yes!!!  ... little rascals!!! smile lol

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          How is that even remotely funny?

          People don't bring these things up because they think it's FUNNY. People think it's atrocious.

          I personally think it's atrocious to condone something horrific like that, and to think it's OK for God to do it.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            There can be no real counter, so...laughter.  Make a joke, make fun of it.  Anything but recognize it for the truth it is.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes! I thought that you just didn't realize it. But you know huh??? Yet...

          2. JMcFarland profile image93
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Personally, I find it atrocious that anyone should glorify the events of the first passover.  A story where god hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would go against his decision to let the Israelites go numerous times just so he could keep punishing him with plagues.  On top of that, for the last plague, god commanded the Israelites to smear blood over their doorways so that he would somehow be forced to remember that they were HIS people so he would not kill them as well so that he could kill the firstborn of everything in Egypt, from the cows to the goats to the human beings.  It's a horrific story, and one that does not point to a loving or benevolent being.  If that being were a human being, he would be condemned as worse than Hitler, yet so many people choose to worship and love it anyway.  Such a concept is untenable to me.

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hence, my point that these atrocities are not from God but from man.
              Its easy just try it: if you interpret with the eyes of Divine Love you can discern between the acts of God (Love) and the acts of man.

          3. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I KNOW what you think. You have made it no mystery. However, you know what I think too. I will never sit in judgment of God. He is grading me one day. I know I will not be able to explain hatred or malice toward him.

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I don't hate God. My feelings are mixed. I don't know God well enough to decide what I feel.

              I just don't believe that the God in the Bible, or Koran, or the Gods of the Hindu Vedas or other religions are accurate portrayals of God. I have been a Christian, and before that I believed in Kali, and even entertained the possibility of the Egyptian gods. My current theory is that ALL religions are probably wrong, yet still hold some basis of what the true reality of God is. I think religions are poor interpretations of individual experiences of God, which have then been misinterpreted even further by fanatics without any real experiences of God.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Granddaddy said, "if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
                Truth is (and everyone knows this) we will never know all of anything as far as religion goes. We pick and stick with that. Or we "waver with each new doctrine"

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I totally disagree. I think choosing something(religion in this case) just so you have "something to stand on" isn't a good idea in any sense. It might be comfortable. It might make it easier to live and be content. But it just leaves you in a position that might be faulty. How do you know you chose the correct one? There are many religions to choose from.

                  We may not ever know the truth of religion. But I personally want to try and figure out what is truth and what isn't. If that means tearing everything apart that I "know", and repeatedly if necessary, then I am willing to do that.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It IS obvious. So tell me, how will you know when you have researched and poked at anything long enough to end the search for truth? Possibly too good a question, but I would really like to know how one with your same mindset will ever end the search for truth and pick; which is the supposed goal. Or is perpetually searching the goal in itself? Because it is pretty hard to hold one to anything to which they have not become committed.

                2. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Pick and stick is always best, isn't it?

                  Easy, we don't need to analyze and think, we can just go with the flow.  No effort required.  The only real con is that we can never progress - we can never improve or learn - but that's a small price for easy.  Isn't it?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Aint no flow to go with here. Those who speak for God are few and far between (where are you SirDent? sad ) on this network.
                    We progress in faith. It is a great progression, and often painful.
                    But the reward is great too. Progression in wisdom...??? Shooooooot... none compares smile

            2. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              "He is grading me someday"

              Perhaps. But in your Bible, he is grading you on OBEDIENCE. To him. Not much else, if anything.

              I think God does grade us, but I think it is on our behavior. On our moral decisions. On how we treat others.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The bible is the rubric. It tells us exactly what God grades on. Yes, everyone.

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I realize that. And you choose to do what the Bible says.

                  I don't

                  To each his own.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Exactly.

              2. Michael-Milec profile image60
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                His message to the mankind proves what you just said;" ... So that each one may receive [ his pay]  according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil, [ considering  what his purpose and motive has been, and what he has achieved  been busy with and given himself and his attention to accomplishing.] This God, the Crator of the universe is  righteous God, he made it so  simple from the very beginning : find out what is right-- and do it. You - no one does need the "Bible" for making right , right ,  The Bible makes it much easier to know God, His wil , to do right and live righteously .

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The Bible does have some wisdom in it, and some truth. But it is so mixed up with things that contradict any wisdom it might be attempting to teach that it is useless as any real guide.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    True. It all depends on personal faith. Even Jesus left it to every person discretion : be  it according to your faith.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Not if you look spiritually. All of it is true. Rightly dividing takes spirit.

                  3. Michael-Milec profile image60
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    @ jenesix , the Bible integrates ( all the God wanted humanity to know ) including  His word, the word of  men, the angels, the devil as well in some cases the words of animals.  As far as " the Word of God speaks  is alive and full of power- making it active, operative  energizing and effective; it is sharper  than any two edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [ that is of the deepest parts of our nature] exposing and sifting  and analyzing  and judging the very thoughts and purpose of heart.
                    And not a creature exists that is concealed from His sight, but all things  are open and exposed , naked and defenseless to the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do. " ( New Testament , portion of the Bible )

      2. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I think so.  You're claiming the bible was not inspired by god, that he did not write it through the hands of men. 

          That nothing in the bible can be considered as true; just claim it was put there by man and is not based on Divine Love. 

          I get it.

          1. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No, you still haven't got it. The truth in all scriptures regardless of religion is based on Divine Love (which comes from the Divine, get it?).
            I'm still waiting for a response re; Wilderness,
            I disagree. my point is very original! smile
            Also I respect science in the same way I respect any other religion. I allow them their Faith.
            I note that Scientists like to take the credit for many earlier religious discoveries; also science evolved out of early religion so there are only irrational and emotive reasons for scientists turning their backs on their early heritage. Why be ashamed of the religious roots of science? It has to reveal a deep seated antipathy towards evolution! smile My point is that Science has not eliminated Faith, the irrational, or emotion from their mental processes therefore this is hampering the forward momentum of true science. Scientists should accept their own evolutionary roots, admit their faith and purge out the irrational emotion reactions to religion

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know who or what just deleted one of my posts a moment ago but I had only made a very brief and polite response to a post.
              ????

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well that is exactly what you get when you attempt to disjoint the bible.  Disbelief in some leads to disbelief in much more.

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Excuse me? I was defending the principle of Gods Divine Love against an atheist who was trying to label God a murderer!
              So are you saying you removed my comment defending Gods love?
              That's very odd.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If I may remove your post, I know nothing of it. I wouldn't if I could. Editing is not my purpose here. smile

  9. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    As this is a brief discussion I will also try to be brief.
    We agreed a while back there several aspects to viewing Bible content. Remember? Not to take a poem literally etc? Have you now changed that?
    Further to that by basing a view of the Bible on the eyes of Divine Love we can safely remove all attempts to eradicate other entire racial groups as NOT of God. This makes up only a small portion of the Bibles content and almost none of the New Testament which is mainly about Love.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I hear you but we cannot edit the bible. It was already done. smile There are some poems some analogy and some metaphor but I believe God had some terrifying ways of dealing with the sinfully wicked. He hates sin. When you proudly wear that cape, he cannot see the glory of the blood of Jesus. Your scarlet sin is just that. No covering.

  10. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    Well I just replied but cant see it again. Another delete???

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I believe some posts are unavailable for viewing at one point or another.  Possibly the ones that are being responded to. I have noticed that before.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Dont tell me atheists are running the site!?
        Every time I win arguments against them I get switched off !!

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Atheists run the world. Remember? wink
          The particular comments usually reappear after some time. Possibly on the previous page as people sometimes respond quickly and the system seems to need to catch up and reorganize based on order??? I'm not sure. But you usually can go back a page or two and find the comments after 1/2 hour or so.

  11. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    I'll try again: the parts referring to the annihilation of entire peoples/races are a tiny part of the old testament and almost non existent in the new testament which is mainly about Gods Love.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I hear what you are saying but though God is love without doubt; he is judge and executioner. He is just and merciful to those with the covering. He protects them; chastises them; corrects them; and he punishes them.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I agree i agree.
        He just doesnt do mass murder.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Doesn't the bible say something about that? He did take his "hand" and go through the town of the Egyptians. And helped the Israeli armies to demolish town after town. And he did rain fire on Sodom and Gomorrah. Are those the parts of scripture that you feel should be omitted/adjusted/compromised???

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Are you saying that we should ignore such repeated insanity because there are a lot of other words in the book? 

      When you sit on the court bench with a mass murderer in front of you, will you set them free because they tell you they love everybody now?

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Wilderness
        Why do you irrationally refuse to see my point?
        I sense great hostility and emotion.
        Are you blaming God for bad stuff? That shows an indirect belief in God as you are blaming Him.
        Perhaps you were let down by JC when you were a child?
        Do you want to talk about it? My door is open.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I understood your point to be that mass murder by god was not in every chapter of the bible and should therefore be ignored.  Was there something else?

          When God does bad stuff, then God gets the blame, yes.  When He kills kids, or entire cities, then he gets the blame.

          Been let down by that particular fable all my life.

          1. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Can't you see that your statement here shows that you believe in God?

      2. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Wilderness
        You still havnt explained why you deny the early evolution of atheism.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          As atheism started as a lack of belief in gods and is still a lack of belief in gods, I am at a loss to see where the evolution happened.

          1. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Atheism and its accompanying code of ethics evolved out of religion (theism).
            Science and Art evolved out of religion (theism).
            I am just asking you to accept your roots and to accept evolution.

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Let me put it this way: it is apparent that the New Atheist Movement has created an ethical vacuum in many, but not all, of its adherents.
              The most obvious example to me is a widely held view that hypocrisy now has no meaning. For example; all ethics, science and art evolved out of religion (a belief in God/God’s) but many atheists,not all, deny the evolutionary roots of their own philosophy while at the same time defending the principle of evolution! Ergo, hypocrisy.
              This new Homersimpsonion atheist view that “everyone is stupid except me” does not count as a philosophy or an ethic. For example, if a budding new individual atheist (say for example a Peter Singer type) was to develop his unique code of ethics by practicing Zoophilia with a pig and happened to create a new types of AIDS this would have to be seen as “bad”, stupid, undesirable or possibley evil as it would be potentially fatal to millions of other humans.
              In other words atheism as a philosophy as described by ……..doesn’t work (yet).

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Can you make a case for art coming from religion?  You can start with the earliest art, in cave drawings and show that religion had people drawing pictures of animals.  Or making jewelry. 

                And then do the same for science; show that religion is the root of the concept of testing and observation before declaring truth.  That the idea of gaining knowledge via experimentation comes from religion.  Not, mind you, priests or other religious people, but from the tenets and teachings of religion.

            2. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              And I'm just asking you to understand that atheism came long before any religion.  While Ugh Ugh the caveman had a god or two, his ancestors did not; when humanity invented it's gods it came about from curiosity and a drive to understand, which means those questions had not been answered.  Which means there was no god to answer them.

              And to think that the scientific method of thought and research came from the methodology of theological studies is laughable.  It most definitely developed independently, although likely from people that at least professed a belief in theism; it was dangerous indeed to fail to do so when science caught hold.

              1. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Wilderness I can't agree with that. theism has been around as long as humans and probably before with Neanderthals.
                All early scientists were either priests monks or god fearing men. This is all well recorded by history.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  All right - please put the evolved religious thought to use and prove that scientifically.  Don't just make the claim - prove it with tests, observations and/or evidence.

                  What was the earliest god, if you know it was before Neanderthals?  What were it's orders, how did it interact with man?  Where did it live and which tribe invented it?  You've made a claim, back it up with evidence.

                  You most definitely do not know early scientists, using the scientific method of investigation, were theists - you merely know that they said they were because the alternative was death, torture or at best incarceration.  And then only in Western countries; very early chinese peoples were bordering on using the method long, long ago.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    This is a very shaky argument. You are speculating, about as much as he is. If a person professes to be something we can only take them at their word. Claiming people were wearing a theist coat, out of fear, is simply attempting to back up your beliefs.

                    And, asking someone to identify the gods of lost civilizations is like the missing link argument by creationists. You refuse to consider his point of view simply because he doesn't possess a specific piece of information, while you ignore the vast amount of information he does offer.

                    Very few known civilizations didn't have a deity, or two. We can look at the odd indigenous tribe which doesn't and claim that proves early man didn't but that would be foolish and shortsighted. Archeological evidence consistently points in the other direction

                  2. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Wilderness,
                    I can't do your homework for you. Just pick up any good book on archaeology and have a read at what the atheist Scientists themselves are telling you about early forms of religion; and the many proofs they have discovered in early cave art and burials. It is basic high school education.

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually, when Neanderthals first started to integrate with humans, they had their first taste of "faith" when they watched  shamans perform rituals right before a big hunt.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oops... I always thought Neanderthals were considered early humans. smile

  12. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    To my understanding, the bible does not borrow or rehash. But corrects. That is what Jesus came to do. The ideas that some have about faith are off-kilter based upon the bible and the words of Jesus. We have a new and improved understanding because of his ministry. No one here may say that they have not been made aware of the commands he left with us. No one may say when they stand face to face with God that they did not know. The bible promised that all will know. And all will bow and confess that he is Lord. Now or later...

    1. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You can't say the story of Jesus was a "correction" of the story of Osiris, because the Bible says that happened 2000 years ago. The story of Osiris originated at LEAST four thousand years ago, and probably longer.

      I won't bow to anybody.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Osiris schmiris! wink check your book. There were a few differences between the two. Jesus came to show us God.  Do you believe that?

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't say Jesus and Osiris were carbon copies. And that's just ONE example. Mithras was even more similar to Jesus that Osiris.

          And no, I don't think Jesus came here to save us.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Your last statement is the ringer. No Christianity for you. Is that a problem? Because you seem pretty perched. smile Jesus coming to save us is one of the biblical basic truths.
            My take on this mythology is that they are basically recognized as myths.
            Quite possible in my mind that someone has visions and drew them out. Could have been predictions. smile
            I wholeheartedly believe the biblical accounts. Now our conversation will onlybe mmisdirected. We are speaking from two different planes. I, Jesus spiritual. You, another kind. How will we climb this mountain?
            Uh, you want me to move it for you? Lol!!!

          2. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I know where youre coming from. Its called comparative religion and its a subject studied at uni. Many religious people get stuck in one book. I read all the scriptures and study archaeolgy.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image60
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The Alpha and Omega - Jesus - The Lord God Almighty , who was , is and ever shall be isn't in " religious" completion with anybody or anything. The term " religion" is created by man for the sake of communication when comparing invented religious systems. For that reason the " bible" containing the word of living God is superior to any other " religious " writings  since the Word is alive and  active ; faith leads up to discovery of supernatural .

              1. Dr Lamb profile image61
                Dr Lambposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Did I read that right? Am I in an episode of the Twilight Zone?

              2. JMcFarland profile image93
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You can make that claim all you want, but you saying it does not make it true.   In order for you to demonstrate your claims truthfulness,  you would have to provide evidence for discussion - something you seem unwilling to do.  Or maybe it's because you know you can't,  and you just want to preach at people and make a bunch of claims that cannot be defended.

                1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  To "provide  evidence" for the sake of discussion isn't what the believers are told to do , and don't expect me to expose myself to everyones mock or ridicule . However you  probably have  been aware by now the following words of Jesus saying ,"In very truth I tell you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I am doing, and he will do even  greater works than these because i am going to the Father…"(John 14:12); likewise "Wherever men believe, these signs will be found: men will drive out demons in my name, speak with new tongues, and take up serpents in their hands; if they drink anything deadly it will not harm them; they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover."( Mark 16:17.18) . The gospels are detailing the "deeds of the kingdom" performed by  Jesus from Nazareth's  earthly life : the people came to him asking for  help ,believing they will get it  -he  just said " be it according to your faith…. or  even " your faith made you well ." In his home town he didn't do many of those "supernatural miracles"- we are told , because of "their unbelief". More of His works you can read in the gospels, more of the manifestation the same  is going on since His followers obediently doing his will,whenever and wherever is both receiving faith and giving faith. Quite many times happened in my presence , and by me being used as an obedient vessel to his word. Never bother to count as something extraordinary, just giving glory for His faithfulness. It's no big deal when a believer speaks to the storm to stop, or the demons leave a person's body as it is no big deal when it doesn't. Have you ever witness the presence of the anointing in the action? - Just asking. Not needed to be answered. We who know the will of the Lord, we also know that we are accountable to ourselves and to the Creator, not to any other authority .So what you want from me? Just please be fair and polite in communication. We are here for you and everybody else, sharing the irrevocable truth as a sign of times. And OH, how the scripture is being fulfilled even as we speak and no human can do  much about it.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  To "provide  evidence" for the sake of discussion isn't what the believers are told to do , and don't expect me to expose myself to everyones mock or ridicule . However you  probably have  been aware by now the following words of Jesus saying ,"In very truth I tell you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I am doing, and he will do even  greater works than these because i am going to the Father…"(John 14:12); likewise "Wherever men believe, these signs will be found: men will drive out demons in my name, speak with new tongues, and take up serpents in their hands; if they drink anything deadly it will not harm them; they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover."( Mark 16:17.18) . The gospels are detailing the "deeds of the kingdom" performed by  Jesus from Nazareth's  earthly life : the people came to him asking for  help ,believing they will get it  -he  just said " be it according to your faith…. or  even " your faith made you well ." In his home town he didn't do many of those "supernatural miracles"- we are told , because of "their unbelief". More of His works you can read in the gospels, more of the manifestation the same  is going on since His followers obediently doing his will,whenever and wherever is both receiving faith and giving faith. Quite many times happened in my presence , and by me being used as an obedient vessel to his word. Never bother to count as something extraordinary, just giving glory for His faithfulness. It's no big deal when a believer speaks to the storm to stop, or the demons leave a person's body as it is no big deal when it doesn't. Have you ever witness the presence of the anointing in the action? - Just asking. Not needed to be answered. We who know the will of the Lord, we also know that we are accountable to ourselves and to the Creator, not to any other authority .So what you want from me? Just please be fair and polite in communication. We are here for you and everybody else, sharing the irrevocable truth as a sign of times. And OH, how the scripture is being fulfilled even as we speak and no human can do  much about it.

                  1. janesix profile image59
                    janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Why even bother in the first place?

                    Why not just preach and leave?

                    I don't get what you're doing here if you don't want open communication.

                  2. JMcFarland profile image93
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    1 Peter 3:15 "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

                    It seems like that is EXACTLY what you are told to do.

              3. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                MICHAEL MILEC
                Its OK to believe "our football team is the best" but to say there are no other football teams might look a little odd!
                Just imagine if a football team made that claim during a football season: there are no other teams only ours!

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Jesus said that there was only one team that will make it to the father. All other teams...
                  Are there really other teams?
                  One true God...one itty-bitty way to him...
                  What other teams do you mean?

                  1. janesix profile image59
                    janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Just a fun tidbit I found that I thought you might like:) I am not into gematria, but I at least thought it was interesting.

                    In Bible gematria, Jesus equates to the number 3168, and Bethlehem is located at 31.68 latitude. This I found not at a gematria website, but a number/geography one, mostly surrounding the number 3168. It was quite fascinating.

                  2. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The other teams are the different sects of Christianity  and also the other religions
                    They each need to respect one another's beliefs. It is disrespectful not to respect other cultures beliefs. If a belief causes harm to the weaker members of society or creates violence then of course we need to condemn that. In general however, there is a lot of room for more tolerance of other doctrines between the different churches and even the different religions.

                  3. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    there you go again: hinting that there is some silent one special sect out there you are defending.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  God created a " soccer team " first, just look around; and a season is being extended : we still enjoy the grace time period.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, God created a soccer ball and called it an 'atheist'

  13. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Oops...sorry; I forgot.

    1. Oztinato profile image84
      Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      ANNOUNCEMENT:
      I just out debated an atheists blog on another thread on Hub and was immediately locked out for it.
      It appears Hub could be run by atheist moderators.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well ok, some people who wear the Christian title do get locked out for winning arguments and occasionally embarrassing super smart asses with big fat BS degrees. smile I forget that part... no biggie.  This battle was won thousands of years ago. The Lord will not be shushed. He's much mightier.
        The unfair ban...discussed over and over.
        It has happened to most of us repeatedly.  But it seems that the Christian must not be as interested in the report button.

        1. Oztinato profile image84
          Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          OK
          I admire your attitude. Anyway I complained and got my post through.
          I am not trying to detract from the Truth and Beauty that is in the Bible.
          There are two definitions of faith: faith the noun refers to doctrine but faith the verb is an action of deep hope. As all doctrine is changeable I see faith in action as the more truthful and real Faith.
          All people theist and atheist live on hope even if they dont admit it.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, we discussed that too. Faith Everyone has It, was the name of the forum. Also, True that people attack to get a banable response? was another discussion we already had. Not too long ago. smile You are right on-track!
            Your faith shines as well as a handful of others here. (I just cannot get with the idea that God is not what the bible says he is; nor that he did not do what the bible says he did) God does not think as we.
            The OT was full of his vengeance and wrath. I believe he wanted to show us his power and his intolerance of disobedience. Though each of us struggle he desires that we have the right ideas about what he says is right, so we will at least be headed in that direction.  He can work with a repentant heart. He can work with humility. He can increase faith and faithfulness. But we must meet him where HE is. He doesn't change his way to appease. Spirit and TRUTH.
            Some will never get that

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That's right: no one can live without hope/faith in something.
              There are many believers who study the Bible from a point of archaeology; they are still believers.
              As a person who studies the Bible and religions in this way my personal view is that the main value of the OT is its pre-figuration of JC. Of course it has other great value.
              People, like me!, who intellectualize, need to study the prophecy and events in the OT to fully understand the events of the NT.
              For example, its hard to fully understand the concept of sacrifice without understanding about ancient Hebrew concepts of sacrifice.
              That being said, it is better to believe "without having seen" and the pure in heart and the simpler believers don't need to know all this stuff. It is part of God's plan to provide for both types of people: those who might need a higher level of study to believe and those who don't need a higher level of study.

  14. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Your share would be 3cents in light of the fact that many would follow you to the Neanderthal testing site sleeves raised. Lol (anything for a buck...)

  15. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Lying to people and changing the words of God to be more "palatable" turns people away from God and/or causes one to sin. Not truth.
    Truth frees.

  16. Michael-Milec profile image60
    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago

    Does anyone else have this same image as seen on my pages? The las comment:
    I
    will
    agree
    with
    you
    there.
    no chance for "reply ".(Looks strange)

    Under the assumption we continue "God and Adam" - forum thread, one would presuppose we are talking about "God" revealed on the pages of the Bible in English language, given him this name "God" by 'man' for better communication. Substantially we are talking of the living being- a person, omni present, omnipotent, ever existing spirit, - spiritual being as you and me- the real person- and every single person IS SPIRIT,SOUL, -living in the body. A faith in this only living God is the  way of communication and trust is  link to relationship with Him.Without these is impossible to know  Him, experience  communication with Him or give wisdom and knowledge of Him to anyone denying these two virtues. Actually all  this is beside  the point while in this conversation we are too far of the things His nature when we are  talking about "religions". The spiritual things of supernatural God can't be compared to any other "religion" , because Creator of the Universe isn't religious, didn't created any religion what so ever. He was and is communicating with His creation while the other religion gods don't .
    Let's look the first recorded instance as this "God" gave His name to Moses   mentioned in the Bible; the God said, "I AM " .  Once again we are dealing with the  translation - 'eh-yeh =  I AM in Hebrew ; 'eh-yeh  'a-ser  'eh-yeh - that is " I AM WHAT I AM": ( Ex.3:9) -God  answered  Moses "I AM WHO I AM. this is what you must say to the people of Israel: "I AM has sent me to you." At that time of the history this was the only people who has earned God's attention because of FAITH in His provision.
    Perhaps one of the best proof of God's communication is promised redeemer to all people. Decades before coming of "Emmanuel"- God with us,- has been written into details how it will happen as well when it happen the story of Jesus from  Nazareth presented God's presence in human body. Those who read the Gospels and other historical evidence know about this very well. No other religions "gods" have ever communicated this way, never proved word - to be life manifested in flesh and when He came- the Word- Jesus - " to those who received Him he gave authority to become children of God to those  who believe in HIM. They were BORN , not from human stock, nor from physical desire, nor from the will of man , BUT FROM GOD."(John 1:12.13.)Let's remember the FAMILY relationship : The children , only the children have free excess to the father…

    Final word :"God is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him-( (come to Him)- must worship Him in spirit and truth.' These are words of Jesus: " Believe me …a time is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such people AS HIS WORSHIPERS. "(John 4:21-24)

  17. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Usually when I see that view I am not signed in. Or it could be threaded view that you may change at the top of the screen. The later a bit less likely.

  18. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    He changed after the bite. Immediately different. Knowledge of nakedness.
    What an awesome thought.
    Thanks. wink

  19. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Yes. The description of what women look for in men did sound familiar. I read about that study. Women on what types of mates they tend to seek. But in my community (which is where knowledge of ethnicity and culture are important) women are "bread winners" and heads of household. Just looking for something pretty to come home to. Lol
    Our men are locked up; gay; locked up; taken; just playing the field; or dead.
    The chicks are fighting for a piece of his time these days. Any ole piece will do.
    Women have babies to "keep" one who will not stay. And yes! Sex and/or sex appeal plays a huge part.

  20. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Disclaimer:
    Black women do have standards. Many of them wait and don't settle. Many are single still.

  21. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago

    This may just be the single most bizarre set of comments I've ever read in these forums.

  22. Oztinato profile image84
    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago

    I have just been reading over the posts.
    It is undeniable that hypocrisy should not be condoned in either theistic or atheists philosophy.
    It is hypocritical for one religion not to respect another.
    Likewise it is hypocritical for atheism not to respect their evolutionary links to ethics via religion.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, it seems more to me that those " evolutionary links to ethics" are the teachings of the atheists, trying to raise the morality of the religions into something more civilized.

      1. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well you could be wrong there as there is no actual evidence of that. All the early scientists were devoutly religious men.

        1. 63
          wayne92587posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The goal of early science was to discover what, was on the mind of God.

    2. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Respect is something that is earned. Not many religions have done that for me personally. Or many, many other people.

      I tolerate them. As long as they don't cross certain lines, that is.

      People have valid reasons for not tolerating certain aspects of certain religions. As it should be.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Trust is earned. Respect is everyone's right. Right???
        "I tolerate them as long as they toe the line I draw everyday with my big red matker???" Lol
        Who did you say are you again??? smile

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Respect: "a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."

          Not in my book.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            b : to refrain from interfering with <pleaserespect their privacy> Merriam Webster
            See...in an effort to keep the congruence of conversation intact; one must remain aware of context.
            My definition more closely relates to the topic of discussion; see?
            You do not have to have high esteem or regard for anyone to "respect" them...

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Just a misunderstanding between the two of us, I don't think our actual opinions on the matter differ much. Just a word usage problem.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Just imagine...many of our words and thoughts of meaning fall victim to our culture, our education, our personal experience. We often know things only from our own multifaceted and unique perspective. Context is often missed from the person who types out a reply. The words of Jesus must definitely be somewhat hard to get at first.

        2. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Tolerance: "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So then one could say that I "tolerate" you??? Who, did you say, am I??? wink
            Thanks for "tolerating" me. It is appreciated to the max!

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I even kind of like you a little bit:)

              See, I'm not the horrible monster that I may appear to be:)

          2. Michael-Milec profile image60
            Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            ' tolerance' as a temporary fix living between two opinions, isn't in God's vocabulary, similarly as compromise man's acceptance for temporary solutions, subject to constant changes , short lived.

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That sounds reasonable.

              However, I'm curious to how you know what's in God's vocabulary?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Everyone knows. It is written.

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Really? I don't.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It is written that we will have to give an account for the words that we speak.
                    "You have not, because you ask not."

              2. Michael-Milec profile image60
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Easy, by reading His Word and wherever possible digging into "original" meaning not lost in translations.

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So you know Hebrew and Greek?

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              We MUST remember that God never changes. We cannot be unfaithfully tossed to and fro by every new idea.
              Thanks! smile

              1. janesix profile image59
                janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                But people change. Are we supposed to keep outdated ideas?

                How do you know what God wants , thinks, feels anyway?

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It is written.
                  We have instructions on how to successfully live this life. Though people change; it will always be wrong to kill, steal, and destroy says the Lord. Certain other things will ALWAYS be WRONG as well. We know what those things are when we read the instructions that he left for us.
                  Oh!!! But we CANNOT read the words with our red marker. We must use our EMPTY cup. Get it???

                  1. janesix profile image59
                    janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I disagree. I think our sense of what's right and wrong come from within. A gift from God, but more like a compass that is always pointing up.

                    It's not always easy to determine though, and can be greatly influence by circumstance. Guidance is helpful, but only to a certain extent. We still have to determine what is the right thing to do, and that is relative. Some things are obvious in their wrongness or rightness, others not so much.

                    I don't think the Bible was written by God. Perhaps inspired, but the messages are obscured by the human writers, and their own personal faults and agendas, incorrect assumptions.

                    Wisdom is there, but it has to be sifted through, and still taken with a grain of salt.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Computers were a new idea, the internet was a new idea, this forum was a new idea. Funny, how you seem to be using them extensively and unfettered after saying that. lol

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  New idea??? People have been finding faster ways of communication for eons. smile
                  I keep up with that. However, in matters of the heart/mind/spirit, I have one formula. I stand on that. No swaying; no bending; no sugars; no additives. Just "salt". And the salt was already provided. smile Jesus is the salt. His spirit changes its surroundings. If we have him; we change our surroundings. If we don't, we have "lost our savor" which isn't good.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That must be very upsetting for those who would much rather avoid new ideas.

        3. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Who am I?

          I am an infinitesimal fragment of God, living this particular awareness, until my life energy is recycled into another being, until I return to my Creator.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Even God himself respects the rights of a man to choose how-so-ever he wishes.

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe. I don't know the mind of God.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                See, Jesus. Learn of him. He has the mind of God.

      2. Oztinato profile image84
        Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yes I agree religions need to do better.

  23. janesix profile image59
    janesixposted 2 years ago

    Examples:

    I tolerate Christianity, because I don't agree with most of it.

    I respect most of the teachings and values taught by Jesus, because they are admirable.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I'm just know he thanks you. smile
      Btw...what is admirable?  I mean, who decides what admirable is? Have you written a book on the do' and don'ts of admirable? How do we ensure admirability??? Are you the only QCI we have on the matter; or are there others?

      1. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I suppose what is admirable would be on a personal level. I haven't thought about that. I suppose some people admire things I see in a negative light. Like the accumulation of money. Some people call this "successful", I call it greed.

    2. lone77star profile image90
      lone77starposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Janesix, very interesting. Christianity of today has become corrupted by ego and divisiveness. I suspect that Jesus never wanted that to happen, though he knew it would. He talked about this corruption.

      I have a new book in the planning stages that digs into this subject -- the dilution of Christianity.

      1. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There seems to be corruption in most religions, if not all. The seed of meaning is always nearly lost. But the seed in most of them is the same.

        1. Oztinato profile image84
          Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Its important not to make sweeping statements like "all religions are bad" as it is similar to racism where misinformed people say "all dark people are bad". You just can't tar everyone with the same brush.
          Better to say there are SOME theists and some atheists who are bad.

          1. janesix profile image59
            janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't say any religions are bad. I said there is corruption in all of them. Neither did I say anything about theists or atheists.

            The SEED is the same for religions. The MEANING and the message are corrupted over time.

            The message can be found in all, but it has to be sifted through, and understood on a personal level through God's guidance.

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            As well, it is important to not make sweeping statements like, "all religions have an equal share in the spirit" too. We must have the mind of Christ if we wish to follow him.

            1. Oztinato profile image84
              Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It is in keeping with the character of Divine Love to tolerate and respect the beliefs of others. Likewise, equality. Isn't that what Afr-Americans want? Isn't that what all races and cultures want? Equality? Even under man's law equality is mandatory. So under God's law equality is even more sacred.
              Cgenaea, our Real Faith (verb) should not feel challenged by the rights of others; only a believer's small faith (noun=set of rules) is challenged. The set of rules of a faith is small "f" faith. Divine Faith is the "F" faith.
              Don't allow yourself to feel spiritually challenged by tolerance and equality.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Please write out a list of all other religious beliefs Jesus endorsed/embraced please. I really need the challenge of which you speak.
                Take your time.

                1. Oztinato profile image84
                  Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  When Jesus was alive Christianity did not yet exist. He was a practicing Jew.
                  He warmly welcomed all people of all religious persuasions into his sermons, including Romans, Jews, Samaritans and Edomities etc.
                  He made no claim he was going to limit His grace to one religion in particular or one particular Christian "future sect".
                  His sermon on the mount drew no religious distinctions but only appealed to decent human values of meekness, humbleness and charity
                  I feel like you are trying to pin Him down to one special sect (your own) which is remaining silent but becoming more obvious as we talk.
                  Are you a JW?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "I do the will of my father, the one who sent me."
                    "If you love me, KEEP my commands."
                    He told the woman, "Sin no more." Now what is sin? But how can we know; with the bible being untrustworthy and all???

                  2. 0
                    SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Jesus said, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life.  No man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

                    Unless a person can acknowledge Jesus for who he really is, that person cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.  The Way has been made, not many ways. 

                    When He chose His disciples, He said, "Follow me."   When he healed people He said, "Sin no more."

                    He fed people because they were hungry, but this did not save them.

  24. lone77star profile image90
    lone77starposted 2 years ago

    Cgenaea, the first scripture I'd point out is 2 Corinthians 3:6. It warns us that the letter (literal) leads to death. Only the spirit of scripture leads to life.

    In other words, don't take the words of the Bible too literally. You'll miss the real message. Some is literal, yes, but some is metaphor and symbol meant to make you think and to dig with the Holy Spirit to find the True meaning.

    Just look at how Christ used difficult parables. He wasn't a literalist, though many biblical literalists claim that he was.

    The literal approach to Bible interpretation is easy, but Jesus told us that the path to salvation is narrow and difficult.

    Fact: None of us know God's full Truth.

    Implications: We need to remain humble and hungry at all times until we do know the full Truth, which might be forever.

    What gets in the way is ego. Jesus described this as "first" -- the attitude of needing to be first. Arrogant, know-it-all. Humility is the antidote to ego.

    There appear to have been 3 Adams in Genesis.
    1) Adam, the spiritual being in the Garden.
    2) Adam, the tribe (see Genesis 5:2, where it describes Adam as male and female and them.
    3) The eponymous leader of the Adam tribe, if there was such an individual.

    Man has a dual nature
    Genesis 1:26 tells us that man was created in the image and likeness of God, but He is not Homo sapiens. So, that means we are non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation, for that is God's image and likeness.

    Genesis 2:7 tells us that man was created from the dust of the ground. This is chemicals -- DNA -- Homo sapiens.

    So, man is sleeping immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. Genesis 6:3 emphasizes this.

    God doesn't care about these human bodies. After all, he trashed the lot of them during Noah's Flood so he could start all over again. Something had threatened God's purpose to rescue His immortal children.

    My new book, The Bible's Hidden Wisdom, God's Reason for Noah's Flood, talks about the Flood's target -- described in Genesis 6 as the "daughters of men" and located through science as a species which matches the description in Genesis 6 -- a species which disappeared at the new Flood date of 28,000 BC.

    There is still much more to learn. Humility and hunger to receive the answers is essential.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Please tell me what comment you are replying to. I'm having a problem following your first sentence.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      All of your threads so far are only promoting your books.

      Did you read the TOS where it says that is not allowed?

      1. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +1

    3. Oztinato profile image84
      Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Amen to that: the spirit is the thing.

    4. 63
      wayne92587posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No! God does not have feet.
      If you were able to look upon the feet of God it would be as though you had been made blind, for you would see NoThing.

      When the breath, the Immortal Spirit of God, was breathed into Man’s, he and she, Mankind’s nostril, it was the Immortal Spirit of God that became a Living Soul, that was made manifest; the Immortal Spirit of God alive in the Flesh Body of Man, he and she, Mankind; Mortal Man to walk the Earth having both a Mortal, Flesh Body and a Spiritual Body; the Spiritual Body, the Immortal Spirit of Man, he and she, Mankind created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God.

      Immortality used in reference to Man, He and She, Mankind, rather than the Individual Man, the individual Man, the Flesh Body being Mortal, Man’s Spiritual Body having  been created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God returns to God, NoThingness, Non-Existence.

      1. janesix profile image59
        janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yep:)

  25. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Has anyone ever met with the CEO of a successful company that employed you???
    During your meeting, did you whip out your red marker to blot out the company rules that don't work for you; and show him/her YOUR plan for how you will run his/her organization from that day forward???
    *Keywords*: CEO of a successful company that employed you.

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, we should look carefully at your keywords. We can actually see and talk with a CEO, but we can't see or talk with your God. lol

      If I had the opportunity to do so, I certainly would pull out a red marker on Him.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I see your red markings all over the place wink and God does too.
        You cannot see him because it is clear that you do not want to. Proving the fact that he is not there seems most important to you to me. Am I right?

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Fragmented thinking is characteristic of schizophrenia. Externally, it can be observed in the way a person speaks. People with schizophrenia tend to have trouble concentrating and maintaining a train of thought. They may respond to queries with an unrelated answer, start sentences with one topic and end somewhere completely different, speak incoherently, or say illogical things.

          http://www.helpguide.org/mental/schizop … ymptom.htm

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah...thanks.

          2. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Religion is not classed as a symptom of mental illness.
            Aberrational  thinking is quite different.
            However, it could be argued that noted atheist ethicist Peter Singer could be classed as a sociopath/schizophrenic  (by law) for his views on "after birth abortion"/ legalizing infanticide of children; not to mention his personal fondness for Zoophilia). Those who do not protest this view and/or support it are also arguably potential  sociopaths.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But God is NOT in it. He has one way. It's a little narrow path that has a little narrow gate. Only a few find it. Not everybody. There is one way to the father.
              Maybe I am arguing with one not interested in the full message of Jesus??? This is clear. Who/what do you represent?

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Man, you need to get a mirror.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I have one. And it is crystal clear. It sees down through muscles and bones.

            2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But, mental illness has been shown to be closely related to religious zealotry.



              If you say so. But, Singer's arguments are not based on the bible as are the arguments from Christians who disagree with him.

  26. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Janesix. What is it that you take to be the words of God?

    1. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not actual words. Just impressions through dreams, synchronicities, visions. What is a sign for one may not be a sign for another. However, I'm not sure if God plays an active role in this, or if we just become more open to the signs of God through an expansion of awareness. My feeling is that our awareness is expanded through a natural process when the time is right for each individual.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        He "speaks" to us in many ways. Daily life is guided by the spirit of the words he left for us. When we play with those words and give them new meanings, we miss. He will not tell us to kill steal lie or be otherwise sinful. It is written what he wants so that we do not get it twisted. When we are led away from the path, the spirit reminds us what he said. We still must decide to do or don't.
        When we debunk what he said, where is our correction? Inside??? James says no.

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If that were true, then why is the Bible so contradictory?

          I bet you could find a passage for just about anything in there. And a passage a few chapters a long will say the opposite.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Context is important. We have to know what he was talking about. The bible does not contradict itself. It speaks to all.

          2. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The contradictions are the editing of men for political motives. What is not Love based in the Bible (or any other scripture) can not be from God.

        2. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That what is happening within the family, isn't known to outsiders, the Heavenly Father communicate with His children by the Holy Spirit they were brought into the relationship with. Jesus made it clear : having to reveal himself not to the world "If anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my Father will love him and we shall come to him and make our home with him."( (John 14:23) Before you ask, here is the answer, He is the same One God the Holy Spirit.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Michael...you're "singing" to the choir. wink
            I am aware of how the spirit of God works. Thanks for knowing and conveying.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image60
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It meant to answer  JANESIX's "Not actual words.... " my apology for misplacing or ending out of my control.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                smile
                It happens to the very best of them...
                I know that you and I are connected.

          2. Oztinato profile image84
            Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That's right: and all religions have an equal share in the spirit.
            There is no "competition" between religions: if there is it is man made competition.

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
              EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              And, spirit is what, exactly? How do you share it?

              1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                ' God is a spirit,'… or '"the Spirit is God'", a divine person, possessed of all divine perfections, as appears from his names, works ; God as a spirit, is immaterial, immortal, invisible, and an intelligent, willing, and active being; however differs from other spirits in that he is not created but an immense and infinite spirit,and an eternal one which has neither beginning nor end; he is therefore a spirit by way of eminency, as well as effectively,, he being the author and former of all spirits - whatever  excellence is in them, must be  ascribed  to God-YAHWEH- in the highest manner; and whatever is imperfect in them must be removed from him . One approaches him in spirit and truth and without being agreeable to his will, one is a stranger in confusion and misunderstanding.
                By the way, before you ask,  whenever you hear word 'love"- is the most popularly accepted description of invisible God, because GOD IS LOVE, while not everything thought 'love' - feelings, emotions and such isn't love at all.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You are contradicting yourself. If something is immaterial and invisible, it is non-existent. Yet, you go on to say God is a person, an active being. People and active beings are not spirits, they are material and are visible. And, if something is immaterial and invisible, then there is no way you or anyone else could even conceive of it's existence.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You are a spirit; I am a spirit- the real eternal being living in each  human body-visible - is a living soul and spirit- eternal. Many know  this, many believe and know ;  others , well exactly the same spirit soul an living in the body  for some reason asking for more proof that they exist and are here on this earth on temporary,  mission for a purpose by the Creator's appoint

                  2. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Other dimensions mathematically discovered by scientists are also "invisible". Numbers themselves are invisible.
                    Get it?

              2. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                When we say the "spirit of the law" we can begin to understand what spirit means. If we cruelly judge someone just by the "letter of the law" we have an inhumane (not quite human) mindset.
                Spirituality  is an esoteric inner feeling directly synonymous with Love and compassion. Spirituality  is beyond the lower animalistic  mind which is limited to self and temporary materialistic gains.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That is totally false, laws were made by humans, obviously, and were meant to be humane.

                  The "spirit of the law" still doesn't mean anything until you can explain 'spirit'.



                  Then, just call it love and compassion, there's no need to make up other words that have no meaning.



                  That still means nothing and you do nothing but add more confusion because you now have to explain the difference between those concepts.

                  Ever hear of Occams Razor?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What part of; if you do not have the spirit of God within you, there is NO WAY to comprehend it, do you not understand?

                  2. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Well that's what I said: maybe its too easy!
                    The spirit is Love. Believe it...or not.

                  3. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    PS Occam 's razor? wasn't Occam a scientist monk?

              3. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The spirit is divine Love. You share it by being compassionate to each other.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That isn't spirit, that is simple compassion. There is no need to make up words to other words, it only serves to create confusion. In this regard, spirit is a pointless word.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You think NOTHING of Jesus???

                  2. Oztinato profile image84
                    Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I hate to break this to you but the beauty and uncomplicated nature of Divine Love is all there is to it.
                    Its as if its too just too simple to understand straight away. No complicated conflicting doctrines.

              4. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                encahplio
                Spirit is not a mathematical theorem (as yet!).
                It is compassion and Love that make us true humans. These phenomena are the spirit. If you need to wait for a math theorem to prove it to you, you might miss out.
                Have you read Kurt Godel's God theorem has now been proved? Does that help you to grasp Divine Love/Spirit?

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, they aren't spirit, they are emotions most of us have, they have evolved in us over millions of years.



                  A simple, honest explanation would suffice, thanks.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              That is not what Jesus taught. Christianity says, "There is one way to the father."
              One path.
              One faith.
              One God.

              1. Oztinato profile image84
                Oztinatoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If it excludes all others and condemns them to hell it is of course not from God but the inserted teachings of politically motivated men.
                Don't feel threatened if your small "f" faith (set of rules) feels challenged. Nothing can challenge the feeling of capital "F" Faith.
                Once again I have to repeat not to judge by the letter of the law (small "f" faith) but to judge by the spirit of the law (Capital "F" Faith).

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Interesting. You both claim to be using the spirit to judge what the meanings are - yet you both have a completely different set of meanings and both self righteously pronounce that your way of changing what the bible says is the correct way.

                  How come?

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    God (spirit) foments dissension by telling different people different things?  He likes to see people fight?

                  2. EncephaloiDead profile image60
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL. Have we ever seen two believers agree with each other on everything they believe and claim is righteous?

                    You'll soon see one of them telling the other they are not a Christian.