Hey folks i'm a 41 yr old guy from the UK, iv'e worked all around the world for 20 years on oil refineries....Iv'e met & worked with 1000's of different people, & many different cultures from nearly 40 countries....I'm not practising any form of religion at the moment, but i have always pondered on the question of whether or not, there is a "creator" of some kind....From what iv'e read on the Theory of Evolution, & from my own personal experiences, i'm now leaning towards there being an actual "creator"....I won't go into the details as that would be a waste of time, as any one stuck on just "evolution" as a theory of life, would not entertain any "other" idea....So i'm not on here to promote God, so please no one tell me i'm "brainwashed"....I'm only leaning towards the idea of a "creator", but i'm going to need "more" evidence so "no" brainwashing here!lol....Any way my point is is that "IF" God exists, he/she couldn't "ever" possibly show himself/herself, & i'm only using "logic" here....Because like i say "if" God exists, by definition of God, God would have created us....So "why" would God create us in the first place?, are we here to be "tested", "to learn", "to suffer" even?....There could be "many" reasons we're her (IF God exists), but i think one things for certain:....."IF" God exists & then he/she "shows" himself/herself to us, then that would be "GAME OVER" as far as the "why" we're here in the first place....I mean if life we're a test as to whether we choose to do good or bad, but every one "knew" God really existed, then everyone would "cheat" & be good....Same if we're here to suffer or to learn etc, so we can't ever know the "real" truth, as there would then be no point to this life.......I suppose it would be exactly the same for the Devil, "if" the Devil exists....The Devil could never ever show itself to "us", as if it did, we would then know that for the Devil to exist, God must also exist so again we'd "cheat"!lol....So what do you think folks, do you ever feel like i do, that there's a lot more going on to life than what we know?. :-)
Ah the eternal question, did God create man or did man create God.
No mate my question is: IF god exists, "could" he show himself?
God can allegedly do anything, but his best attribute appears to be his ability to play hide and seek.
If he did exist he'd have to hide, "any" idiot could see that!lol....We're not all "bible bashers" you know buddy, some of us have experienced something that we can't explain, OR just write off.....Iv'e tried writing off my experiences but i can't, & i wonder why you keep repeating the same old crap....Dismissing the possibility of a creator, & that "i'm" deluding myself....I mean "IF" i'm (in your opinion mad), what do you hope to achieve by all your negative comments.....Do you somehow expect to convert "me", (a deluded mad man), to believing what "you've" read in a book, or watched on utube!lol.....No mate why don't you go on the Evolution Threads where you will be happy, i mean i wouldn't have the cheek to go on an Evolution Thread, & start trying to "convert" peoples beliefs.....So if you reply to this, in your opinion your replying to a "mad man"!lol
Stop right there. Think. You are attempting to create your universe where a God created the entire universe with it's billions of galaxies and stars and planets and put us on the outer edge of one of those galaxies, but first waited almost 14 billion years for us to get here and then simply wanted to test us to see if we would pick his way over another's way. Don't you think that sounds a little egotistical to have all of this for humans?
Well if the universe is 13.8 billion years old Dr Lamb, how can it be 92 billion light years in diameter?.....Also how do you get "something" out of "nothing", unless of course you redefine "nothing".....Where did the Laws of Physics come from, or Quantum Physics in a universe that didn't have any dimension....Why is there a Law of Gravity or Thermodynamics?, who or what put these laws into place?....That's just a couple of things you can clear up for me please, then we'l crack on with evolution!lol :-)
It's my understanding we don't know how big the universe is because we can only see 13.8 billion years back or away.
It's my understanding that the singularity was not nothing, but everything compressed.
The laws of Physics, Quantum Physics, gravity and thermodynamics came from the study of the universe.
Now you can answer my question about the arrogance of believers to think this entire universe is just for us? Focus.
I can't answer your question Dr Lamb, because i'm not a believer as you keep trying to insinuate....I'm still gathering information of my own, before i realize either way....I mean i don't know how many times i used the word "if", but i know i used it a lot!lol :-)
Sure I did.
So you demand I answer your questions that I had already done, tell me I have a swollen ego and then when left with answering one question claim you have no opinion at all. Seems like a lot of attitude for someone without a point of view.
Can we get onto that evolution thing now that I answered your question or are you going to deflect some more?
I agree. If a "Creator" were to show him/herself to the world (?) what would happen to "Free Will"?
And ; if this were a "Test" and we knew it was a test (?) as you say, all value of the results would be lost. OR ... if this life is something like the old T.V. program, "Fantasy Island"; knowing it was just a fantasy would rob the event of the excitement that would have been obtained.
I do believe that if there is A creator, it would be detrimental to the purpose, whatever that purpose is.
This is a very good question for anyone with an inquiring mind. Why would a creator want to show himself (to the population at large) at this point in time.
Free will is a meaningless phrase, especially considering evolution is a fact. There is no evidence for creators, so there is only one way for anyone to know God exists and that is for God to show Himself to everyone.
And, that would be a very good thing, it would stop all the fighting and wars and atrocities committed in Gods name. There would be world wide peace. Is that not what you want?
Won't argue the statement " especially considering evolution is a fact". It does't matter what is, or will be; science can reverse engineer it back to its origin, or close to it? There ia a limit to just how far we can go. We can reverse engineer a plant, what makes it grow? Dirt and nutrients which are in it right? Can we make dirt. Yes! But can we make the stuff that made the dirt? You might say no and you might say yes. But can you make the stuff that makes the stuff we use to make dirt?
So there is no final answer! I don't think so.
That isn't true, we keep finding more evidence every day and keep going back further and further. It is a defeatist attitude to say there are limits.
Are you not aware of what makes plants grow? Do you need a link to a site so you can find out?
Sorry, but what does making dirt have to do with anything? That is a process that takes millions of years and is done quite naturally.
Isn't your final answer "God did it"?
Why should there be a final answer? What does that have to do with anything?
That isn't true, we keep finding more evidence every day and keep going back further and further.
me .... if, as you say; science can still keep going back farther and farther; they haven't found the end yet?
For every answer which is discovered, another question comes with it. That is how scientific discovery works, didn't you know?
Why should there be a final answer? What does that have to do with anything?
me ,,, Surely you jest ??? If you don't know it by now you will never, never know it.
So what? The problem has been with religion and how it has suppressed science throughout history, we would know a great deal more if that didn't happen. Blame religion.
Uh yeah, I know how science works. What is your point?
I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you?
Actually, evolution is a "theory." That's why it's called the Theory of Evolution. We do hold it to be true as of this time - as we are able to observe some evolutionary progress in species. But, to say it is a fact, is to say that science can go no further.
And science surely can.
Jerami & Howard....You 2 strike me as the type of people, that might come up with some really good ideas about life, & if it has a purpose etc, because your still looking for the "evidence" like i am....However Encephaloidead you sound brainwashed to me, your stuck on just evolution when it hasn't been proven.....You should take the Zen way, the middle way....You can believe in Evolution, but should still be open to "other" possibilities....I mean there's equally as revered scientists out there, that would tell you that we're living in the Matrix!lol.....He reckons he's explained the twin slit experiment, but even madder than that.....There's some worldly renowned highly respected scientists, that would tell you we can go to another dimension while we're here, & actually interact with "entities" of some kind.....Watch Terrence Mackennas vids about DMT trips, & it will blow your mind mate.....ALL i'm trying to say buddy is what if science is wrong about evolution, your'd have been wasting your time on it when you could be researching other ideas etc.....
Yes, brainwashed by facts.
Like the possibilities folks who have no idea what they're talking about dreamt up from their overactive imaginations?
Darwin wasn't wrong, evolution is a fact and he knew it, despite the fact he also knew the Church would have conniptions about it, which they did until a few decades ago when they finally accepted it as fact, too.
Darwin himself had "BIG" doubts about evolution, also even he couldn't see how an "eye" could just evolve.....I tell you mate your just on here for an "ego" boost, to see if you can "out do" everyone.....You never answered my original question at all, & all you've done is spout on about evolution......I originally said "IF" god exists, he "couldn't" show himself/herself, "NOT", i that i believe in god!lol
For us to properly decide which path to take shouldn't we be given all the necessary information?
Information is out there Dr Lamb it's all out there, also every thing we ever wanted is out there already....Also every thing that's ever been invented, or going to be invented is already out there ready to be discovered....I mean Evolution could only ever be disproved, it can't ever be proven....I reckon people like Martin Luther King knew there was a loving Creator, only because they "felt" a presence....They maybe knew that that creator can only be "felt" by an individual, so they laid down their lives to save others....Not for a reward like heaven etc, they did it not knowing what would happen to them.....But i reckon they "felt" a presence of some kind, knew they was doing the right thing....So they gambled with their own lives, because they felt they had to.
What does all that have to do with my question? Try to stay focused.
Ask me a specific question then Dr Lamb, & as a none believer who is starting to feel something i'll answer honestly.....To be honest it's hard to stay focused on here, as you won't have a bash at my original question....You keep trying to distract me from it, by assuming i'm mentally retarded or deluding myself, & i feel that from your replies. :-)
I just did ask you a specific question
"Now you can answer my question about the arrogance of believers to think this entire universe is just for us?"
You refused to answer it and at one point claimed I have a swollen ego. Please explain to me why it takes a swollen ego to believe we are just another animal on the lonely planet on the outer edge of one of billions of galaxies and people who claim that all of this was created only for us have a perfectly balanced ego?
BTW, I assume everyone here is much smarter than I unless I have reason to see otherwise. I have no reason to see otherwise with you. However attacking others egos will get a response similar to mine.
I already answered your comment on another post Dr Lamb, if you want to know about the arrogance of believers to think this entire bla bla bla whatever, go & ask them....I'm not one of them, & i asked a "hypothetical" question, & everything i say has happened to me has happened to me....Whether your ego likes it or not, they did happen.....You do have an ego Dr Lamb otherwise you'd be on an evolution thread, not on here trying to convince me i'm mental....I never have been, & what's more never will be religious....I would like you to post something on here that can prove 100% evolution from one species to another......Not evolution within species, but from one species to another....Then i'll read it, & give you my honest opinion. :-)
I take you would not except any of the fossil records, would you except evolution if I showed you animals currently in that transition from one species to another?
Yes please Dr Lamb i'll have a look at the Animals in transition, i'll have to read other sources as well before i can comment back.....Also i'll have to look into who says it etc, & who they work for etc (make sure no bias)....Only saying as it might be a couple of days before i respond back, but sounds interesting. :-)
The African and Asian elephants are no longer the same species and yet have a least once produced offspring that didn't survive meaning they were once the same species, but a separation of environments forced them to evolve so that they can no longer produce viable offspring.
The horse, donkey and zebra and no longer produce offspring that can reproduce. They can produce healthy offspring, but the offspring is sterile, meaning they can never become a single species again.
There are more examples, but these are a good start.
Why not? Only an assumption is made that everyone would do right if we all knew He was real. People know they have parents. They still do things contrary to what they ask of them.If anything the idea of eternal punishment is what really stops "free will" in its tracks. That and the fact that we can't will our own selves into existence.
For us to truly be tested we would have to have no knowledge of any Gods at all. Some say we have the free will to decide between eternal hell fire or heaven. Hardly free will. Mush like the mafia offering to not break both your legs for their protection against themselves.
I agree Dr Lamb, & i have no interest in any of our known gods at all....As far as anything resembling religion, all iv'e looked into is Zen Buddhism....Anyway from what i got from that, & philosophy etc, i take the middle way as far as what i believe....I don't believe in heaven & hell (how could i?), & according to the yin/yang there couldn't be either of them existing separate from one another.....I do believe in free will as a real "thing" (for want of a better word), & i do see that as part of some sort of test....As iv'e tried to build up my free will, & tried turning it into will power iv'e seen things, & had visual effects etc.....I haven't been able to keep this up for long as it is hard work, & all through this i haven't read a single line of religious stuff at all....I have done a lot of meditating at home, & out & about....1 year ago i would have laughed at anyone who meditated, & now i do it everyday.....I just don't buy into humans evolving from a different species, & even if a scientist reckons they can prove it, i'd still have to do the experiments myself before i could ever realize it.....We all have the free will to choose between doing the right thing (for our selves & others), or doing the wrong thing (for our selves & others)....What's more is it's a lot harder to do the right thing, than it is to do the wrong thing.....But what makes me really laugh is doing the right thing always pays off, but people mostly choose the wrong things....Now why is that?, some sort of test i reckon.....Mad or what?lol....Did scientists ever manage to get something out of nothing?, or is the very idea meaningless?.....Unless of course they change the meaning of the word nothing, to mean nothing/something?, yin/yang?lol :-)
Yes they have manage to get something out of nothing. They have managed to make things adapt to things that were different and couldn't survive in the same environment and I can show you species in transition from one species to another. If you are not held back by religion why not study it yourself?
It's a good point you make buddy, but what would you do if there was god & he did appear?.....I don't think god could come here at all in any capacity, maybe he can only come through us....I think "free will" is when you choose good as opposed to bad, i think that's how you can say if you have free will....So maybe the more times we choose good, the more free will we build up, which then turns into "will power"....The fact that we "can" will ourselves into existence, & have & live in any reality/universe we like, seems to be more of a clue to me, than us just evolving like that. :-)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no evidence whatsoever for any creators, there is only evidence for evolution. We can entertain any other ideas we want, but if they have no evidence, what is the point of pursuing them?
Can you explain to me what the "evidence for evolution" is?
Have you not done the research? Have you not spent the time to learn about evolution?
Why would you expect anyone here to educate you if you haven't done so yourself?
Here's how it works. This is a discussion forum, not a school or university. The idea behind discussion forums is for everyone involved to educate themselves on whatever is being discussed. If you want to contribute, then you have to understand what everyone is talking about.
Asking that question only shows you have not prepared for the discussion.
There are mountains of evidence for evolution if you wish to learn about it. It's not likely anyone is going to spend the time to educate you, that is something you have to do for yourself.
You do not need to scold me. I only would like for those who keep saying there is evidence of evolution to show me what they think is the evidence. I never hear ones who believe in evolution actually say why they believe. Is it a belief system, or did you actually see some evidence that told that evolution is true?
You do not need to bypass the question to explain me about forums -- I did not ask about how to be part of a forum, or how to get involved in discussions, or how to educate myself. I have studied evolution and see no "evidence" no "facts", only theories and speculations.
If I was not prepared for a discussion, I would not be here. I would like someone to explain to me why they believe in evolution -- is it only because they like to debate, is it because so many believe in evolution and it is a popular thing to debate on it, or is it because you have some facts, some proof to show?
Now -- allow me to educate you about forums. One does not assume and criticize others due to an assumption that you know why others are here. One does not push aside the question by asking several questions. One who has solid evidence will explain where they are coming from. I asked a simple question and deserve a simple answer. I did not ask for a debate or scolding.
And what does that prove? What does that tell you? That someone can line up skulls of different species and say "Aha! Proof of evolution!"
Right, you are not willing to look at how and where that evidence was found.
It's called mental laziness. If one wants to lean about evolution, the process of performing DNA, carbon 14 dating, along with the credible evidence to support it, plus the scientists that made those discoveries and their credentials is all info that's readily available. But I guess it's easier to ask stupid questions.
Did hunter gatherers living in caves around 12,000 years ago, really build the pyramids & the Sphinx Dr Lamb?....I mean come on now, we'd struggle to build them today....2 million blocks of stone, some weighing up to 80 tonnes, & some quarried from 500 miles away, & there lined up to the stars with perfect precision!.....Also what about the Gobelki Tepe in Turkey, a massive Temple complex with sophisticated sculptures etc estimated at 11'500 years old.....Much earlier than the Egyptian, or Mesopotamian civilizations.....So how did science get their dates so wrong?, we're we living in caves 12,000 years ago hunter gathering?,or building amazing structures for some reason?.....Scientists jump to a lot of conclusions just to make a name for themselves, & get funding....A LOT of funding!.....Billions in funding!lol....I'm not slagging science off, but lets stick to the proven facts...No more theories.until they can actually prove something...Evolution isn't a proven fact, & there's certainly no "mountain" of evidence like you suggest.....If anything there's a mountain of theories that have since been disproved, & it seems as if science has already made it's mind up about the results before they started.
It appears you don't even know what a theory is, perhaps this will help:
I'm with you! No more theories until there is at least some evidence to back them up.
We can start with ID and the existence of another universe with a god that built this one.
That's what I thought. Your not willing to look at the evidence as it may make you think you've been wrong.
No one is scolding you, I am only explaining to you that is how it works on discussion forums, we aren't here to teach, but instead, to discuss.
Of course not, people understand evolution so they don't need to believe in it. Beliefs are for religions, not science.
No, it is not a belief and there are mountains of evidence that show evolution to be a fact.
Sorry, but you can't fool people who actually understand evolution into believing you understand it. It's obvious to anyone you don't.
Again, you make my point that you don't understand it. I would highly recommend taking the time to do so.
Again, you do not get the point. I am not asking to be educated or taught about forums and discussions.
You still have not provided information as to why you believe in evolution -- and you do believe in it but show no facts. You just keep avoiding the question. Do you say evolution is true because you believe Darwin was right? Do you believe that 'the process of natural selection' is true? Do you believe if species are to survive they must evolve? What if a species did not survive because another species only annihilated it, or the species actually could not survive where it 'appeared' in nature.
Do you honestly understand evolution? Tell me why?
PS: you do not have a point. I understand the "theory" of evolution. I just disagree that humans evolved from apes. We are not primates, as apes and chimpanzees are, we are not the same species. We did not evolve from apes. Are there other species of humans? No.
Sorry, but it's so very obvious you don't understand evolution. Please take the time to familiarize yourself so you can contribute intelligently to the discussion.
I am curious: why do you refer to yourself as "BrainDead"?
Do you honestly think that YOU are contributing intelligently to this discussion? If so, why can you not answer the question?
I understand the 'theory of evolution'. I understand that both humans and apes have opposing thumbs and walk on two legs. I understand that the chimpanzee evolved from the bonobo, a much earlier species of great apes. I understand that humans existed at the same time as the bonopo (according to scientists and biologists). I understand that evolution takes place within species. I understand that humans are not the same species as apes.
I also understand that you cannot provide an intelligent answer to the question I asked. You only avoid the answer by attacking me.
What do you understand and believe about evolution? I will ask again:" Do you say evolution is true because you believe Darwin was right? Do you believe that 'the process of natural selection' is true? Do you believe if species are to survive they must evolve? "
Or have you experienced yourself that humans evolved from apes?
Please provide an intelligent answer or let us just go on and allow each other the right to believe what we choose to believe without trying to convert each other.
Why are you focusing on my username? What does that have to do with anything?
I am trying to contribute intelligently by doing my own homework. That's how it works.
None of that shows you really understand evolution.
Please stop fabrication falsehoods, no one is attacking you.
No, humans did not evolve from apes.
No one is trying to convert you. I am merely pointing out you need to educate yourself with evolution so you can intelligently contribute.
Well, thanks anyway. Seems you have no answers. I enjoyed our "discussion".
It wasn't a discussion because you never came prepared. All I managed to do was correct your misinformed opinions.
"It wasn't a discussion because you never came prepared. All I managed to do was correct your misinformed opinions."
You did not correct anything. You only proved to me that you have no intelligent answers to questions asked of you. Have a good day, EcephaoiDead.
Hey Phyllis i like your style, you called him out, & he came back with nothing!....He can't give you the evidence that he says is well known in science, because the real scientists haven't got it!lol....Iv'e spent years on & off, looking into the big bang theory & evolution etc....I've never read the bible, or ever been religious during that time....So when peeps tell me that i shouldn't start entertaining the idea of a creator of some kind, i wonder why they do it.....I mean i know for a fact, that "NO" scientist has ever proven the big bang.....It's all just theories, & there changing often.....It's almost as if science is desperate, to prove that "everything" came from "nothing", a totally ludicrous conclusion to jump to.....The universe is estimated to be 92 billion light years in diameter, but only 13.8 billion years old......So they don't know what started it all, but they reckon they know almost everything else since!lol....I was only trying to get a discussion going on "why" we "might", have been put here in the first place....The only trouble is is that the scientific peeps on here, won't even entertain the possibility.....It's almost as if their brainwashed!lol :-)
Yes, they do, for anyone who wishes to see it. There are mountains of evidence for evolution through all facets of science.
Sorry, but you're not fooling anyone into believing that. The very next quote would show you've done no such thing.
Here ya go, this might help you understand that:
Just from this discussion - Phyllis appears to know more about the TOE than does E...Dead.
God does reveal Himself in many different ways. People choose to ignore Him. And we don't know just how old the universe really is, do we?
That's not true, if God revealed himself, no one would ignore it, especially scientists.
Sure, we do. Didn't you know that?
Sorry, we already know that's not true. Evolution shows itself in nature.
Yes, evolution shows itself through nature.
That's pretty self evident.
Are you sure nature isn't perfect? Physical laws wouldn't work if they didn't work together perfectly. Most likely nothing would even exist.
If nature, or better yet, the universe is perfect, we wouldn't exist according to physical law.
Who said anything about nature being perfect?
Where do you get the notion the physical laws "work together perfectly", that is a meaningless statement?
Our universe formed to be what it is today as a result of the physical laws. If the laws were different, so would be the universe.
http://garyosborn.moonfruit.com/#/sacre … 4570375393
Only one of the many ways God shows his perfection of creation.
If God's creation was perfect, there would be no need for evolution.
The point of God's perfect creation is to evolve imperfect animals that occupy that perfect creation? A paradox, it would seem.
An act of creation. Start something out as a seed, let it grow to it's full potential. Everything is "imperfect" along the way while it's growing.
We ourselves create other beings, knowing they will have to go through the crap of puberty, the horrible pain of giving birth, and other unpleasant things as they are growing up.
Horrible pain of giving birth and back problems are the price we pay for walking upright. Other conditions, like wisdom teeth issues are from having a larger brain. All products of evolution.
Hey EncephaloiDead my idea was that god can't reveal himself, not if we're put here for a reason....Like you just said if he did, "no one" would ignore him..It would be "Game Over", wouldn't you agree?.
Dave36, You may enjoy the book, A Case For a Creator, by Lee Strobel. I will also include the link for the video:
The author, who is an award winning investigative journalists, interviews some of the best scholars of our time, who provide scientific evidence in the fields of molecular biology, astronomy, physics, cosmology, paleontology, and genetics in determining a case for a Creator. I have not seen the video as my computer is "acting up,' but I have read other material from Lee Strobel and I have found his investigations quite interesting and useful.
And yes, there is a lot more of life going on than what we know. Even the intelligentsia only know approximately 10% of all there is to know. Keep in mind that they also live in a world of ideas and have little, if any, respect for mundane knowledge. That is why I appreciate Strobels books. Although he interviews scholars, they do have respect for mundane knowledge and are not a part of the intelligentsia per se, as their knowledge is quite practical. After all, it takes a lot of mundane digging to be an paleontologist, archeologist, etc. In other words, these men do not live in a world of ideas; they are, in fact, quite grounded.
You will find that most atheists here will generally refuse to give reasons for their beliefs, except to say that what they believe is already fact--whether or not it is, which is why I suppose they feel entitled to make sweeping generalizations about their knowledge, under the guise of reason. If we could rely on reason alone, then Karl Marx would not have been so disastrously wrong, though most of his believers, who are psuedo intellectuals, still believe otherwise (despite the fact that communism has failed to respect the individual and has lumped everyone together as one swell mass... unless you're the guy on top, of course).
Anyway, your question is about creationism, not intellectuals or Marxism. Nevertheless, I believe you already know quite well that reason does not always equal knowledge, unless it is also grounded in mundane knowledge. For example, a so-called intellectual can reason why his toilet has overflowed, but he won't know how to fix it. For that, you'd have to call a plumber.
Also, I believe there is a world of spirit that defies reason; it involves the heart, though again, the heart seems to defy reason. Interestingly, the heart is part of creation, and it insists on acting like it is not merely a thing that pumps blood. It seems to feel. But still, we know little about why the world is, as our knowledge is limited, though in our arrogance, we act as if we know everything, even though science keeps changing and "advancing." According to the Old and New Testaments, God remains the same. Best of luck to you in your search for knowledge and truth.
Sorry, but Strobel has done no such thing. He pretends to be a skeptic but is a dishonest Christian apologetic, his books have been easily refuted by a number of scholars.
And, how is possible they arrived at 10% if they don't know all there is to know?
That's because atheists don't hold beliefs.
Sorry, but communism and reason are two completely different things.
And yet, that is all the heart does, it pumps blood. A "world of spirit" has never been shown to exist.
No, we don't claim or act as if we know everything. Yes, science is advancing, that's how it works.
Another generalization about Strobel, which is false. That is not to say atheist do not refute him--after all, that is what they do.
What I am saying is that there is more mundane knowledge in the world, than specialized knowledge. The intelligentsia make up about 1% of the population, and to all extents and purposes, they are not practical, having chosen to specialize in a world of ideas.
Karl Marx did use reason to create his ideal society, which failed horribly.
One cannot debate spirit. One senses it, or chooses to ignore it.
Of course we do not know everything. That's the point.
Who said anything about atheists, other Christians have refuted him.
What does that supposed to mean? Knowledge is knowledge.
Is that some sort of conspiracy theory?
Karl Marx never created a society, he co-wrote The Communist Manifesto (1848) and Das Kapital (1867–1894) with Engels.
Sorry, but "spirit" has never been shown to exist, so there's nothing to sense, choose or ignore. Unless, of course, you can show us this so-called "spirit"? Can you?
Strobel merely records what these scholars have learned. If he is refuted, then so are the scholars. He is not refuted by those who maintain accepted standards of criterion for establishing evidence.
I do not deal with conspiricies; they are nonsensical. What I said is that there is specialized knowledge, which may or may not be based upon personal prejudices or impartiality, as In Karl Marx's Manifesto, which was "specialized knowledge, based upon his "reason." The Manifesto failed to produce the ideal society it promised, based upon reason alone. Mundane knowledge, if you'd like another example, is found in the world of engineers, who must maintain high criterion/standards for building bridges. The engineer is not allowed to ignore those standards in favor of his ideals. He would lose his job and end up risking people's lives. But in the world of the intelligentsia, standard tend to go by the wayside. "Reasonable knowledge" is used to justify their beliefs, even if it means ignoring facts or commonplace standards in the interest of their ideals. That is what Karl Marx's Manifesto did.
As for spirit, that is something that cannot be argued. It isn't for me to prove spirit anymore than you can prove that God does not exist.
But when I think of spirit, I think of why we feel love, or sorrow, or awe... or any feeling. These feelings often defy logic. They are often "unreasonable." Feelings cannot be measured by science, yet they exist nonetheless. Consequently, they defy reason.
Reason has it's place, but it does not trump all, answer all, or communicate all.
Sorry, but Strobel is doing no such thing.
I think you just made that stuff up.
" It presents an analytical approach to the class struggle (historical and present) and the problems of capitalism, rather than a prediction of communism's potential future forms."
Again, I think you're just making stuff up.
Actually, it is up to you to prove spirit exists, because you are the one claiming it exists. The burden of proof lies on the claimant.
So, spirit = feelings. Why bother calling something another name? Just call them feelings or emotions.
Actually, it does quite well with most things.
Not true E.D., Strobel is not an award winning journalist because "he makes things up," nor do I. I don't even know what you are referring to, but if it's about Strobel, then I can also relay that he was an atheist who was highly contemptuous of Christianity. Nevertheless, he went about investigating God, Christianity, etc. with no intention whatsoever of changing his mind; he liked his worldly life just fine. But the evidence compelled him to change his belief.
As for feelings, they cannot be measured in a scientific lab; nor can spirit.
And as for proof, there is plenty out there. Scholars, archeologist, paleontologists have provided evidence. But me personally, I do not have to prove anything to unbelievers. It is up to them to seek the proof and evidence which already exists from experts who respect standards for scholarship, referred to as the "criteria for authenticity." Most peer review publications are solid, but any garbage can and is printed. Each individual layperson must hold themselves to high standards when doing their research if they are to understand what they are reading.
Strobel's awards are from the Christian Book Awards, the ECPA. He wrote a book called, "Proof of Jesus" which obviously was made up because there is no proof of Jesus.
No, he claimed to be an atheist, just like so many other Christians who claimed to be atheists, but never were. It's just more dishonesty on his part.
Sorry, he made stuff up, there was no evidence.
Yes, they can. Here's just one example:
No, they haven't. There is something called "Biblical Archeology" which studies archeological sites that connect to biblical texts, but unfortunately all the ever find are fakes and forgeries.
Sorry, but there is no proof or evidence, which is why experts haven't found any and why unbelievers do not believe. It is not up to us to seek anything, it is up to believers to show evidence, but unfortunately for them, they have none to show.
Yes, I'm sorry, that is probably the name. My bad. Here's a piece of review of that which shows the dishonesty of Strobel:
"Strobel did not interview any critics of Christian apologetics, even though he attacks such individuals in his book. For example, Strobel devotes an entire chapter to his interview of Greg Boyd (an outspoken faultfinder of the Jesus Seminar), yet Strobel never interviewed a single member of the Jesus Seminar itself!"
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff … robel.html
E.D., The author of your link relies on information from people such as Robert. A. Wilken, who is a history scholar, but one who does not apparently respect the criteria for authenticity that I mentioned before. The following is one of his statements:
"There is no original Christian faith, no native language, no definitive statement of the meaning of Christ for all times "
His statement is utterly false. Wilkins is part of the intelligentsia I mentioned in a previous comment. He begins and ends his publications with his personal bias, and he is no stranger to skewing facts.
In fact, the intelligentsia have always been highly suspicious of religion, patriotism, and society in general. Thus, they believe they must change the world to suit their ideals. Never mind that these ideas fail miserably. As I explained before, such ideals do not coincide with mundane realities of life. The so called elite intellectuals tend to treat people as one lump mass, and they, the "chosen ones" supposedly know best.
Unfortunately, their contempt for society, religion, and the mundane overides what it actually best for people as individuals, not to mention nations. Yet because of their "intelligence" people tend to believe them blindly, as in the case Karl Marx.
Plenty of evidence to prove the reliability of the NT, for example, certainly exists, whether they choose to recognize it or not.
But, since you just made that up yourself, it is entirely meaningless.
Sorry, I'm really not interested in your personal conspiracy theories and made up assertions, they are irrelevant.
Try and use real knowledge and real information rather than making stuff up as you go along.
ED, I always provide real facts, and I figured before hand that you would dismiss them. But this is typical. I counter with relevant data, and most atheists dismisses my words as having no knowledge. You asked some questions and I answered them with facts and examples--because you asked.
I do not appreciate your stating that I make things up. That is a false statement and a form of slander, which is unacceptable. But I will not go running to HP to complain. You had your say and I accept that we have differences. I am not a liar, nor am I creative or clever enough to make up conspiracies. I rely on research for my knowledge. Everything I have said here is based upon research that I have done. You can look up Wilkens, or anything else I have said-- for yourself. It is not your place to denigrate my character or my knowledge. I hold myself to high standards, especially when it comes to research. I always have.
And yet, it's quite obvious you have done no such thing.
I have looked up your stuff, that's why I commented as I did. If you personally didn't make it up, then you just regurgitated it from someone else who did. It's not valid in any way because it's conspiracies theories.
Hey savvydating i like what you was saying about the heart, & how we can feel through our hearts....I would like to say that i haven't been "looking", for any particular "conclusive" answers....All i did about 8 months ago was start meditating, & try to clear my negative mind.....Anyway what i discovered is that i actually create, all of my feelings & emotions myself....This can be proved to anyone who's not in full control of their own mind, for example if they sit there & think of something sad from their past they'l feel sad emotions....So i can sit here & if i wanted to, i could make myself feel happy or sad just using my mind....I don't think we can have a feeling of any kind, whilst in a meditative state, so my feelings/emotions arise in my mind....What i can't manifest in my mind though, is a feeling of love....I think that there has to be another party there with me at the time, for me to experience the feeling of love....From what's actually happened to me in the last 8 months, i reckon there is some sort of loving infinite energy all around us....Iv'e experienced 3 separate visual effects like nothing iv'e seen before, also 2 coincidental meetings with 3rd parties, that i know for a fact i created somehow with my intentions....Also whilst meditating i experienced a none existent moment twice, i say moment but iv'e no idea how long they lasted....All i would say was at those 2 times, all i was doing was looking into blackness, but the blackness did have depth....I wasn't thinking or feeling at the time, & i knew everything in the universe had vanished, but i "did" know i was looking at the time....It's sounds mad i know but all i knew at the time was "I" was looking, but obviously not me (Dave36) the "real" "i"....Also i once half rolled out of my body one night whilst meditating, & my little sister earlier on this year completely rolled out, & then hovered above her body....She's not been looking into anything at all & it has scared her a lot, but i do know it happened to her from how she explained it to me.....She doesn't however believe that i believe her on what happened to her, as she thinks it's too far fetched, & even though she can't, she's trying to write it off as imagined....People on here might laugh at me for saying this, but i know for a fact i could have an OBE any night i wanted too, i just daren't let myself go at the time.....Sometimes i even have to stop them when i'm not even trying, just as if that loving energy i think "might" exist, is trying to show me something....So going back to the subject of the heart i know i feel mine a lot more now, than before i started getting control of my mind....It's like i'm tuning into it more, & it can guide me if i let it.....So if pushed i'd say there probably is a creator, & we also already live in the multi verse....Only because of first hand evidence, from real things that happened to me that can not be explained.....I tell you honestly 1 year ago i'd have probably laughed at the idea of meditating, but now i can't believe how amazing it is....I don't just meditate at home though, i also meditate whilst walking about etc....It's like the more i stop thinking about doing things, the more i'm being drawn by my intuition/instinct.....To get anywhere continuously with this method, one would have to get on top of everything in their lives, & stay on top of it.....So for me it requires a lot of effort, & i certainly haven't brainwashed myself into thinking this way. :-)
Hi Dave36, I don't meditate much, unless it's a walking meditation. Mostly, I lack discipline in that area. However, my son meditates fom time to time. He had one out of body experience that I know of. In his case, he traveled somewhere in his spirit, I suppose... but ran into some "unsavory" characters, so he made his way back to his physical body, post haste! Lol.
Anyway, my point is that there is so much that we do not understand about spiritual matters. Maybe one day, science will have answers...
At any rate, what I really want to say is that I believe there is no question that our thoughts are very powerful, as is our intuition. Furthermore, our intuition becomes much better and certainly more useful once it has been honed through practical experience.
As an aside, my form of spirituality is quite practical. Personally, I find Christianity to be practical as all get-out. But what I appreciate about it is that it is indeed grounded in historical fact, more so than any other religion that I am aware of. If it were not, I would have lost interetst in it.
But getting back to meditation, I think that when we meditate, we can gain more clarity and thus be more aware of "signals" around us which provide needed information. I am happy that this endeavor is working for you. The only thing I would add is to call upon the Creator or the Holy Spirit to guide you and protect you. That way, you can avoid getting wrong signals. Now you may laugh, but I do believe that when dealing with esoteric matters, good and bad (spirits) can and do spill out together. In calling upon protection, you have made a choice to be guided safely, and to keep the bad at bay.
What facts are you referring to? The world wide flood of 4000 years ago that we have no evidence for? The 6000 year old universe?
Do you know how many Hebrew words was translated earth.
The "EARTH" flooding should be seen as in regards as EZRA 1:2
"The Lord God of heaven gave Cyrus all of the kingdoms of the "EARTH"
When Cyrus used that word which was translated EARTH he was not deferring to the whole planet and neither was the word translated EARTH when talking about the flood.
Many Atheist when Christian bashing; ask the, why do they believe a book which was translated so many times and yet they base most of their arguments upon those same mistranslated texts.
As far as the 6000 year old earth.... All that the bible actually says is that the genealogy of Adam only goes back 6000 years. The bible states that God created Adam. It doesn't say that Adam was the only person God created in this manner.
Sometimes when we attempt to intellectualize we read things into what we are reading that in truth was not stated.
Hey savvydating i love talking to people like you, but it's hard commenting back on here as i have to keep scrawling up to read what you wrote!lol.....I think some people might have miss understood, "why" i'm now strongly leaning towards there being a creator of some kind....I'm the most logical minded person you could meet, i worked all over the world for 20 years etc....I keep fit & workout everyday, i'm not rich but i am content at where i'm heading....So when i write stuff about what's actually really happened to me when iv'e been in a totally conscious state of awareness, i know it's gonna sound really strange, & people will automatically assume that i'm mentally retarded, or depressed, or attention seeking etc etc.....But honestly from what's happened to me etc, there can only be "one" possibility, & that's that there is a creator of some kind, and we can actually receive info from that creator.....Again another totally mad thing to say,and i know i'll get slated for saying it.....BUT, that's the only logical explanation iv'e come up with....What's more is that the 2 "coincidences" that happened to me in 1 week, we're just too obvious & far fetched for my mind to accept.....So even though i know that they happened, my mind still can't except what it actually means......It's really confused me to be honest, but at the same time i feel no urgency to start becoming religious....The mindful meditating whilst walking about, was exactly what i was doing when i saw 2 of the 3 visual effects.....On the subject of OBE's, which i knew nothing about until it nearly happened to me.....Imagine if you was sat in a chair relaxed, & then you went to get up.....Then imagine feeling your body get up, BUT at the same time feeling your body still sat there.....So you feel the "heaviness" of your body (the one sat there), but at the same time you feel the lightness of your "other" body (the one getting up)....So when i had mine i was laid down meditating, i went to get up & my top half of my body left my body, (if that makes sense).....I felt my body leaving itself & become light, but it scared me & i tensed up & went back into my body......I was awake meditating, & defo not asleep....I'd love to here what your son would say to my description of mine, :-)
Not everyone thinks these things are strange:)
Lot's of interesting things can happen through meditation. I personally thinks it opens your mind, to intuition, a new sort of consciousness, even God. Who knows? It's hard to tell. But something is certainly going on.
Yes mate that's exactly what iv'e been thinking, there's definitely something that "no one" has told us.....The mind since iv'e been looking into mine, is a pretty amazing thing.....Your right about lots of "interesting" things happening whilst meditating, although i'd say that's the biggest understatement ever!lol....The things that's happened to me whilst meditating, are (as the great Joe Rogan would say): "UBBER BIZARRE" to say the least. :-)
Yes, I was definitely understating that:)
Uber bizarre is pretty apt.
Hey janesix i think your'd love Joe Rogans vids on the "sensory deprivation tank", have a look on utube mate.....In fact i'd recommend his Podcasts as well, that guy is a living legend in my opinion.....The things he discusses about life, & the guests he has on his shows are amazing, really inspiring people.....Another guy i'd highly recommend watching is Alan Watts, he was one of the most revered Philosophers in the 20th century....Between those two peoples vids there's a wealth of info, & fascinating views & ideas....,Also i bet if you watched Terrence Mackennas vids on DMT, & meeting entities in another dimension, your'l be like........."WOW"!. :-)
I've watched several Terrence McKenna videos, and listen to several interviews too. He's one of my favorites. Especially what he did with the I ching, I think that is fascinating.
I will have to check out the other two.
I should have guessed you'd already heard of at least one of them, you & a few others on here seem to be open minded to all, & any possibilities....I think that's great ,& that's how i am....I reckon we'l know, all there is to know about life as we go....I can't prove any thing, but i feel something now.....Iv'e checked, double checked, triple checked, into evolution, & i just don't buy into it....So i'm not gonna sit around, & wait for some scientist "geeks", (who probably know nothing about the very life (real life), their trying desperately to prove)...To tell me how it is, & was billions of years ago. :-)
I can't "prove" anything either. I realized last night I only have to prove it to myself. Which I did sufficiently, with a final bit of information. I'm not even sure if I needed that, I only needed to believe it FULLY. Not that I understand much more than I did before, only that I can stop looking for proof, and I no longer feel the need to prove it to other people. That they will find it when they decide to look.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there janesix, we can only prove something to ourselves....From what iv'e gathered about my life is that if i work hard on my self, & stay positive & upbeat with everyone i meet....Also if i stay on top of all my problems/worries etc, & work really hard to not take offense from anyone or anything....That's when things start going well for me, & chance meetings with the "right" peeps do happen for me....However if i "don't" stay on top of my life & slip back into old bad habits, iv'e noticed that nothing happens to me....Like i say it's not been easy for me to do this, as there are a lot of "negative" people out there trying to bring me back down to "their" reality....I tell you one thing i do quite often is if i'm sat here, & i feel the urge to go for a walk i go for one asap....I'll go for a walk in a completely "random" manner as far as direction/destination, & see who i bump into....All i would say is that the peeps iv'e bumped into while doing this, have not been random people....Sounds incredible i know but when i heard about this myself, i didn't just write the idea off i tried it, & found out that it works....There was a guy called Earl Nightingale, & he devised a thing called the 30 test.....The 30 day test is where you throw every ounce of energy you have, into becoming better at every aspect of your life......You try to do 30 days in a row, but when you have a bad day you have to start back at day one.....The idea being that if someone we're to ever finish 30 consecutive days without a bad day, they would be doing & getting exactly what they desire in their hearts....So when peeps on here reckon i'm brainwashing myself, i'd say i'm doing completely the opposite, i'm "unbrainwashing" myself....So i honestly think the 30 day test is an act of faith, & iv'e been doing the 30 day test now for around 4 months.....It's the hardest thing in the world for me to do, but like i say when i'm on form good things do happen.....All the rewards are at the end of it waiting for me, i just have to work really really hard at it.....(it's on utube if your interested)....I'm like you mate i don't need to be shown anymore, to believe there's more going on than meets the eye. :-)
I'll ask my son, Dave36. But I know what you mean. These "illogical" things happen. They just do. People report having NDE's, seeing auras, sensing when things are going to happen before they happen. And of course, just the fact the universe, our bodies and brains are so complex and masterfully made. It makes one wonder about a Creator. Frankly, I'm analytically minded, too... which is why I spend so much time researching the evidence for Christ, as opposed to just believing without evidence.
That being said, as of yet there is no logical explanation for spiritual events. Not at this juncture, anyway. Consequently, I think that having spiritual awareness or a somewhat open mind that God may exist is a less narrow view than dismissing him out of hand because we don't "see" Him. I mean--spiritual stuff happens. We may as well enjoy it. The thing you experienced--some call it synchronicity.
Hey i appreciate your time savvydating, & i'll read up on synchronicity as i don't think iv'e heard of it....I'll be totally honest with you i was becoming a compulsive thinker, over analyzer etc, & all through my life iv'e wondered about life....I'm well traveled & met many different nationalities/cultures etc through working abroad a lot....Anyway iv'e worked hard in the last 6/7/8 months, to gain control of my mind/feelings & emotions....Also iv'e done a lot of meditating, at home & out & about.....I'm aware of exactly when my feelings arise, & i have control of them 90% of the time, so i can feel them but also let them go fairly quickly, i don't bottle them up i just let them go....What iv'e noticed through all this is i'm now feeling my heart more, & illogical things "have" happened to me, that have almost convinced me of a creator of some kind.......I tell you one thing though mate, one thing iv'e "always" wondered at the same time......Is "why" are they spending 100,s & 100,s & 100,s of billions of quid, "trying desperately" to prove evolution, or what we're made from????, while kids "starve" all over the world!....Maybe "IF" they stopped wasting all that money, & started feeding & clothing every single "good" human being on the planet, maybe God of he does exist will actually turn up & say: "Hey folks GOOD JOB", "i really like what you've done with the place", "your all loving each other", "& it looks like your having such a good time", "that i just had too come down & join the party".....So me & you both think logically, & me & you both know we're not brainwashed.....We don't know the truth yet, but we also know that no one else does either....So if every single person in the whole world, could be right now having a BBQ somewhere, or partying with their family/friends etc, or just playing games/singing/dancing etc, what would be better than that......Planet Earth could just be one big party, but it isn't it's far from it.....But when you really think about life, & how it is today.....It seems a natural progression to what the world has become, because human's can't be trusted, their easily led & tempted....That's why it seems to me like some sort of test, look back in history, & history repeats itself over & over....I think i went off on a bit of a tangent there, but anyway once i was open to all possibilities, i asked through meditation (without using my mind) for some sort of proof of something, i then got the proof.....That when it happened literally blew my mind, so i'm on here looking for a bit of advice. :-)
Hi Dave36, I checked in with my son. He loves meditation. But before I get to that, let me say that he had a similar experience as yours (when you left your body). He said that he felt a juxtaposition of heaviness in the body, yet weightlessness. He said that things suddenly seemed so big, and he felt small... that there was so much space. (and he wasn't high. Lol).
Actually, he's always been able to "sense" and "see" things which remain quite invisible to me. For example, he sees auras around people-- not all the time, but sometimes. He says the colors are "iridescent," and they remain very close to the body and follow the person everywhere.
As for meditation, he has experienced "travel" but he feels it is more important to "be still" and see what God or the Universe has to say. He says he receives promptings or thoughts which lead him, and which work out remarkably. He always calls upon protection, however. We both believe that if there is a spirit realm, not all of it is friendly or well meaning. Thus, he prays to be protected. That would also be my recommendation to you in pursing any esoteric endeavors.
As for your Big Party, I think you have a good idea. And shamefully, scientists do lie. The good news is that all professors and scientists know which publications have an A rating (related to peer review). Unfortunately, the everyday layperson does not usually know about this. (I learned about this from my brother who is a published professor) Consequently, we tend to believe the guys who happen to be scientists or professors, who have the loudest voices, and who therefore claim that a consensus has been reached, even though it hasn't. They are also making mega bucks (as you've pointed out) to skew data. There's big money in governments grants.
My own personal reason for believing in a Creator is because if we relied only on our own standards for goodness, we'd easily find an excuse to lower them... which is one reason why children are starving. Just look at Syria...
I've never been called "mate" before. Lol.
Wow, you are distorting the truth well beyond any boundaries of honesty. How very sad. It's fine that you want to hold your irrational beliefs, but to say those things about science is quite disingenuous and only shows the depths of dishonesty believers will stoop. Absolutely shameful.
Hey buddy i'd love to hear about the experiences you've had from meditating....I mean i take it you've done a lot of meditating, to be able to tell me i'm deluding myself....I'm willing to bet every thing i own, that OBE's are perfectly possible to every "open minded" person that wants to achieve one.....In fact my younger sister had one out of no where, which really scared her.....She's never read anything at all about religion/the mind/meditating etc ever.....She told me what happened to her, & i told her i believe her.....ONLY because, it had "already" happened to me.....I don't honestly expect you or any one else to believe me, but i know it was a real event, & i'm on here looking for others that have experienced similar things.....I'm a logical thinker, & i also know that no one can change any one else's opinion on anything at all "ever".....Only when we realize something ourselves, can we ever be convinced of anything.....I take the Zen way the middle way on everything, i don't "believe" in anything until "i" know....Most peeps you know/meet personally in your daily life, will be fast asleep to what's really going on in the world.....I'm not asleep any more, & i'm starting to see things which i've never seen before......But you believe what some "other" person has wrote etc, i mean just how many experiments have "you" personally done on proving evolution?.....The Buddha himself would have told you, not to believe "anything" you read in a book etc,...I mean "what if" the scientists we're lying to us?, yer know, just like ALL our politicians do!lol :-)
I'm not exactly sure what is deluding you.
Then, you would lose everything you own. There is no evidence to support OBE's. None.
Of course, I'm not going to believe you or your sister. It's all in your imagination.
That certainly doesn't resonate in your posts here.
That would show you have a closed mind. If OBE's had any evidence, then scientists would begin to take them seriously.
Yes, believers do have a tendency to convince themselves of all kinds of nonsense, despite a lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.
You mean, you believe when you decide something is true, despite lacking any evidence or evidence to the contrary.
No, we are not asleep, quite the contrary.
Sorry, but I don't hold "beliefs" in things, I take the time to understand them. I have done no experiments on evolution, but that doesn't mean evolution is not true. You should probably take the time to learn something about it so you can comment intelligently.
If scientists were lying to us, you wouldn't have a computer, or an internet connection, or many of the conveniences you take for granted every day. Even, the Buddha would tell you that.
Your set in the stone age buddy, & your replying to someone who you would say is deluded.....So it's obvious to me that you have nothing to say, apart from one thing over, & over again....Your on here to feed your "ego", & that's it....I never said i believe in god, & if you could control your "ego" mind your'd realize that....Your only reading what some scientist guy says, while there's loads of scientists that would disagree.....Scientists may say they have no proof of OBE's, well so what i do have proof, iv'e had half of one....I'm only on here to talk to other peeps that have had similar experiences, i'm not here to talk about evolution.....I bet you've never meditated yourself, & yet your "ego" mind is saying we're talking s**t.....And to say that people aren't asleep, shows you know nothing about the mind....Most people are brainwashed, & distracted from "real" life by their governments/Royalties/Big Businesses etc....I mean look at how people idolize celebrities etc, & what they "think" about all the time.....They think about worthless s**t because their fast asleep brainwashed....I'm not asleep anymore buddy, & so i'm starting to see....But i am interested to see how many times your gonna reply to a "mad man" like me.....Not because iv'e got an "ego" myself, but just out of curiosity!lol....You really are close minded buddy on a lot of things, how are scientist gonna get their crap ideas to us?, if not through the media, internet etc.....People are fast asleep every night of the week, watching tele, facebooking, hubpaging etc etc, not out there living, & experiencing life etc.
So the person with the ego problem is the person who does not think the entire universe was created specifically for us?
So many words, so little understanding of the world around you.
You don't even know what i mean when i say "western" countries buddy, & you say i have little understanding of the world around me!haha.....Have you heard of GB?, do you know where we are on a map?.
Dr Lamb you & EncephaloiDead are just 2 big ego's, but so big you can't see it.....Look back at what i originally posted, & you will see that your ego didn't bother replying to my original question....Your ego jumped to conclusions that i'm just another bible basher, & you just have to keep interrupting the peeps on here that we're trying to talk about what i actually posted....You would have to agree wouldn't you?, that you didn't give an opinion to my post....Neither did EncephaloiDead, your just typing what your ego wants you to type.
My reply to your original post was as follows.
"Stop right there. Think. You are attempting to create your universe where a God created the entire universe with it's billions of galaxies and stars and planets and put us on the outer edge of one of those galaxies, but first waited almost 14 billion years for us to get here and then simply wanted to test us to see if we would pick his way over another's way. Don't you think that sounds a little egotistical to have all of this for humans?"
It's right there on the first page. Could you now answer my question "Don't you think that sounds a little egotistical to have all of this for humans?" Your claiming God made the entire universe just for us and I'm saying it's incredible egotistical to think so. Explain why it's not?
Hey savvydating i believe what your son tells you, although i haven't fully left my body yet, only my top half did....When it nearly happens to me, most of the time i feel an electrical surge come up from my toes....It moves very fast but by the time it gets to my waist, i freak out & tense up to stop it happening....To be honest it still worries me, what i might find out about myself if i manage to let go.....Now i know certain peeps on here will dismiss what i say instantly, but i just wonder if they've EVER tried meditating themselves.....These things start to happen to me when i lay down at night, on my own in a quiet dark room when laid comfortably, & when my mind is clear.....I know for a fact that i'm awake through ALL my experiences, & i'm a logical thinker so i have considered everything.....I know iv'e been shown something, but i haven't got a clue why....Or who shown me, but it's completely obvious to me, that i have been provided with evidence.....Like i say i look at things logically, but logic doesn't even come close to what iv'e experienced, & yet i'm still "not" saying a creator exists....However, i am leaning strongly that way.....There's kids starving everywhere even in GB & the USA, but there's enough food for every one in the world....We through enough food away in the West, to "easily" feed the rest of the world, & yet even in our country people still starve.....We don't feed the rest of the world, because there "is" evil peeps in the world, & their the one's running it.....By the way "mate" in the UK means a good friend, not a South American Caffeine drink!lol :-)
The US throws away enough food to feed 6.9 Billion people? Wherever do you get that idea? We don't even come close to producing that much, let alone throwing it all away!
Read what i wrote mate, the "West" throws enough food away to "easily" feed the rest of the world....Not the wild "west" of America, the "Western" countries!lol.....It's a true fact buddy, & it's facts like that, that make me wonder. :-(
So how much do you think Mexico contributes? Or Guatemala? Cuba?
Just who do you think is producing all that food, if not the US?
Dave36, I won't say just let yourself go, because as I mentioned before, the spirit realm, from my understanding, is not entirely benevolent. Thus, prayers for protection are important. What really matters is that you are a grounded, intelligent man. For that reason, you can trust your heart. I'm not always good at living that way, though my son is. He's had remarkable experiences. He's the sort of guy whol "uplifts" the energy in a room when he walks into it. The only reason I mention this is because I think you are on the right track in wanting to follow your heart.
If you are not into prayer and you want to follow a more psychic or metaphysical "rulebook" then you might check out Shouting At the Wolf, by Anderson Reed. The author is involved in the esoteric arts, but because of her experience with evil in the psychic realm she realized she had to understand how she can protect herself. She offers methods for protection along with her personal experience. The book is not run-of-the mill stuff, but neither is the spiritual world. Lol.
As for all the naysayers, we have a lot of them on Hubpages. Mostly, they hang out, make fun or denigrate people. It's rather sad. But just so you know, if you say anything that offends their egos, they'll go running to Hubpages to have you banned. For whatever reason, Hubpages listens to them. But, no worries. You handle yourself well. Have a good evening, mate. PS. If I disappear, you'll know why. Lol.
Hey saavydating thanks for the advice, & i did have many nights meditating where i had really bad terrifying feelings....That was in the early days of meditating, & i did eventually get on top of those unwanted feelings....I have had sleep paralysis quite a few times in the past, & when that would happen i would get the usual terrifying feelings....So although it did put me off at first, i eventually carried on meditating, & haven't had any terrifying feelings for a few months now....I know it's possible to live/follow my heart, but it requires a lot of effort for me....People say i'm brainwashed & from their perspective i am, but they don't realize (evolution pushers/forcers etc), is that from my perspective it's them that's brainwashed....At least i'm sane enough to realize, that i can't ever change any one else's opinion....Only they themselves can change their own opinion when they realize a new truth....So i haven't realized a new truth, & i don't know what i'm about to realize, i just know that i am gonna realize something if i keep trying....Dr Lamb told me to focus in one of her comments, & i had to laugh because that's exactly what iv'e been trying to do for 8 months....In the space of one year iv'e gone from being a compulsive thinker/over analyzer, to being totally in control of myself, physically/mentally/emotionally 90% of the time....All from meditating & emotions/feelings awareness/control.....So i can still use my mind, but i use it for thinking, & i don't have negative thoughts anymore(hardly anymore)....So as i go about my daily business without the repeating thoughts that most people get, & i go around with a clear head absorbing all the info....It's hard to keep this up as there are a lot of negative peeps out there, or peeps mainly concerned with what's on the T.V!lol....However when i can keep this up for a week or two, that's when things start looking differently....I can easily see how your son can uplift a room when he enters, if he's doing mostly what he loves doing in life....He would manifest a lot or positive energy, & that energy would be felt by the other people....When someone's really really happy it does show, & it is contagious to people nearby....I'd love to hear if he's seen anything peculiar, has he seen any visual effects like nothing he's ever seen before?.... As far as the naysayers i know what their up to, i'm on here looking for advice/similar experiences to mine, while their just on here for an ego boost.....I mean if they know the truth & that truth is evolution well then good for them, what more do they need to know?....Why are they wasting there time trying to convince us?....If we all came from nothing & we're all going back to nothing, & nothing matters etc, WHY? are they bothering with us?lol....I just don't see their logic, why are they on here if they know the answers?.....Oh hang on a minute i get it, their on here trying to convert all us mad people!lol....Are they mad?!haha :-)
Hi Dave 36, I found your reply after all. Lol. You have so many followers/comments on your forum that it's hard to keep up. As for your question, my son has experienced sleep paralysis a few times. He said he felt like something evil was trying to suffocate him. However, those events have stopped--hopefully forever! There is no question that he lives from his "heart" energy, even though he is also very grounded. He is a very generous and loving soul. As for unusual sightings, he has not told me of very many. He uses his meditation to achieve clarity in decision making, rather than astral travel. That being said, if that became part of the process he would allow it and he has experienced it. He did say one thing that was unusual that I can remember right now: Sometimes he meditates sitting up in bed, and he will see the sheets on the bed shimmering and moving like water. He says, 'It's cool."
As for the big ego's here, I've tried to be reasonable and well, rational... like you would be with anyone when debating topics, but they don't listen. So, I suppose it is foolish of me to try.
That being said, my goal in speaking with them is usually to correct the things they have said which skewed facts or fabricated them altogether. Also, I don't like having my own words twisted. But, of course, no one does. That's just not cool. But I don't feel anger--just some frustration, at times. Mostly, I just wish they could open up their hearts and be happier. One wonders why or how they became so cynical. Maybe their lives have been really rough or maybe it was a gradual process from having believed in misleading doctrine or philosophies, to include scientific hypotheses which have not not necessarily reached a consensus.. Anyway, such is life.
No, we are not cynical because of a rough life or misleading doctrines. We are skeptical to the nonsense people dream up that are not based in reality, the incessant garbage that gullible people get taken in by and then spread around like so much manure..
The BIG ego's come from those same people who pretend to be special amongst the rest of us.
I don't suppose you have documented that? There is a difference from feeling the sheets move and the sheets actually moving. There is a difference between feeling your out of your body and actually being out of your body.
Actually, it sounds more like he's on drugs.
That's probably due to your lack of ever having experienced something of that nature.
Even a psychologist would say that the part about the sleep paralysis is perfectly normal, and due to the mind waking up before the body.
People experience different states of consciousness all the time, especially when meditating. Just because you don't believe that doesn't make it not true.
Hey savvydating thanks for asking your son, & replying to me, i do appreciate it a lot.....I'm not concerned by anything that's happened to me, i just find it all so fascinating.....When i used to get sleep paralysis i used to feel the terrifying feelings, & also i would struggle to get a breath....It didn't feel like i was being suffocated, however i wouldn't be able to get my breath without really struggling for it....The thing is though is i know for a fact i was awake during these experiences, & these experiences always happened when i laid down to sleep, as opposed to when waking up in the morning....In fact the OBE potential experiences happen near enough straight away, as soon as i get comfy laid down in bed....I would love to hear if your son one day decided to completely change his lifestyle, or did he change gradually....I mean to say did he realize something himself through meditating etc, or has he always been a positive person.....Did he find the things in life he loves doing through meditating on them, or did he just go about feeling positive, & then the things he loves came to him?....From what iv'e discovered in my life in the last year, is that if i put out good positive uplifting energy to everyone i meet.....Also at the same time i work on sorting every aspect of my life out for the better, things do start going well for me.....Is that how your son see's it savvydatiing, because it feels real to me, but it is a lot of effort trying to keep it up.....One last question for him please, ask him if tree's started to look strangely alluring all of a sudden.....As far as any ego that wants to keep informing me that i'm insane, they've said it already a few times....So unless they've got any thing different to say, don't bother....I just wonder how they know for a fact evolution is true, the only facts i know are what "iv'e" realized my self....I have to have the realization moment just like everyone else does, so i can't possibly just read what a group of (possibly/probably corrupt) scientists tell me can i....I mean i wonder how many evolution experiments EncephaloiDead, & Dr Lamb have done to know so many facts about it!lol....I personally have seen to many unexplained things now, & i can't work out why.....That's the only reason i joined hubpages, to meet others that's had similar experiences....I tell you what you should do savvydating is get your son to write a blog on here, as i for one would love to hear his opinion on life.....The best feelings in life for me is when we help others or we're having fun with others, there the best feelings we could have, & yet the world is designed to be opposite to that.....There's clearly/obviously a hidden agenda in the world, & since iv'e "left the farm" i can now "see the farm". :-)
janesix, thank you for your reply to E. Dead, in defense of meditation and of my son. That was very thoughtful of you and I appreciate it. I also appreciate your positive presence on this forum.
E. Dead. If you choose to personally attack me, that is one thing. But attacking my son is quite another--he is not here to defend himself and your bullying him is off limits.. The comment about drugs was/is unacceptable. Why HP allows you to insult others without repercussions is beyond me. In some ways, I feel very sorry for you. Your comments remind me of cowardly, middle school bullies. You are contributing nothing worthwhile or positive to the conversation. Perhaps one day you will choose to become a better person. It's not too late.
I'm not attacking either one of you.
That is not an attack, it is a conclusion based on what you're saying.
That is indeed a personal attack. Notice the difference. You are calling me names. I won't report you this time, but you should not attack people personally like that in the future.
Dave36, I will consider asking my son more questions, but I think you can understand why I may not choose to expose him to any further attacks by ED. But thank you for saying he should write a blog. You are probably right. In fact, he would do well to write a book. He has always been unique--in a good way--even as a little kid. He gives of himself generously... Really, that's what it's all about and why he is such a happy guy and why people love being around him.
Offhand, I haven't heard him say anything about trees...
Nope. ED, I made a comparison. But, if you feel compelled to go running to your friends at HP, that's fine by me. If they listen to you, it will give me more knowledge about HP's employees and where their priorities lie.
I think it's a possibility that God may not show himself for a reason, if it's to learn, grow spiritually, etc.
It's the most likely scenario in my mind.
Thanks janesix like i say i'm not on here to promote anything to anyone, it's just that a number of strange things have happened to me in the last 6/7/8 months....Also i don't believe that science, could explain them to me....It's something to do with our minds i reckon, & getting full control of it.....Also the power of our intentions, & using our instinct/intuition more.
I've been going through this for three years. Haven't figured it out yet.
I also believe it has to do with learning how to control our minds, and intuition. I think it is a spiritual process.
Wow janesix 3 years, i bet you've asked a few questions during that time!lol....Just for a laugh & for what it's worth, i'll give you my opinion.....I reckon that if we can get on top of everything in our lives, & i mean everything....Including our health, bills, debts, in fact "everything" that worries us, or keeps us up at night wondering etc.....So after a lot of work we could eliminate "all" our worries, which "would" eliminate our "ego" mind (negative thoughts).....Also we have to keep using our mind positively to help as many peeps out as we can, without letting it be detrimental to our personal lives, in other words we do what we can......All those good deeds that are done will be done from our heart, bearing in mind our "ego" mind has been almost eliminated....That's when we'l start bumping into the right people in our lives, the one's that help us grow etc....I'm now starting to believe that we can literally be led from our hearts, & iv'e spoken to a few other peeps that think this is true also.....Like you i haven't figured it out yet, but i know there "is" something to be figured out, & it "isn't" anything to do with evolution. :-)
Yes. Listen to your heart, and letting it guide you is the most important thing, in my opinion. I think it is God guiding us, but I also think it can be thought of as an innate sense of right and wrong, a tool we are all born with. If people would just listen to their own conscience, the world would be a much better place.
I think there is much more to it than that though, as you said. It's a choice whether to open ourselves up to it.
Your spot on with what you say janesix, being guided by our hearts is possible, & is the most important thing to do in life....To explain being led by my heart to someone who hasn't experienced it, would be like trying to explain sadness to someone, who's never had any feelings of any kind....They'd never get in until they had the feeling for themselves, & the reason they won't try it is because it takes a lot of work.....Some people on here think i'm brainwashing myself, when in actual fact iv'e had to work really hard to get where i am physically/mentally/emotionally.....The way i look at "brainwashing" is that we're ALL "brainwashed" through school, university, media etc.....Our mind becomes full of worthless/pointless desires, & worries etc....So if we can get on top of our lives, & eliminate all those pointless/worthless desires/pursuits etc.....Then our heart opens up, to what we're actually here for.....Like i say iv'e been trying to do all iv'e said for 1 year, & things are happening now (albeit slowly)....Sometimes when i'm really going well without any "negative" distractions for say a week or 2, i'll see something so amazing that it's obvious that there is something communicating to me.....However i am a lazy person, & haven't fully committed myself to the challenge yet....I do know that it's my "ego" mind holding me back, but my "ego" mind losing, & my heart is starting to become strong. :-)
I'm glad you're on the right track:) And it's refreshing to see someone who knows what I'm talking about, even if some of our beliefs aren't the same. I think there are many roads to the same place.
I think your right mate, there are many roads to the same place....And i reckon that all we'l ever know at any one time, is whether we're on the right road, or not by how we feel deep down in our hearts.....Not a lot to go on but that's the fun part, we have to find it through feeling what we want, rather than thinking what we want.....I mean if we got every single thing we "thought" we desired when ever we wanted them, where would be the fun in that?. :-)
I honestly think that the biggest questions, ie what am i here for, why am i here etc, can't be asked by the mind...They have to be felt through the heart, then acted upon, until we reach contentment....But if we could reach contentment in a year or so, where would be the fun in that?....So it's a life long journey, continuous growth. :-)
Yes, I can hear it pumping blood. Fascinating.
God can't be seen by us because the particles that make up my God are too small to be seen and probably always will be, a dimension of higher vibrational positive energy that has existed since the big bang and makes up our soul and the soul of all life, you can feel it if you try and that will have to be enough for now, check out my hub God is Goodness.
Hey Marc i like what you say, & i'll check out your hub as soon as iv'e typed this....Have you ever had a none thought/material moment whilst meditating, or seen any visual effects etc?....I take it you've seen Terrence Mackenna's vids on DMT, the countless accounts from all over the world, of serious & respected people meeting "entities" in another dimension.....DMT is the most naturally produced, least harmful drug in the world, it's even in our bodies all the time, & yet it's a class A drug!lol.....The Military can & research into it for 60 years, but we're not to touch it!.
I couldn't find your hub buddy, what section is it under?.
Of course, I think there is a lot more going on than we know... And I think our motives to do good must exceed just wanting to please God - I would hope that there is true goodness in us that drives us as well (being in God's likeness which I believe we are). As far as God showing himself, I think he does all the time all around us... I guess that is just having faith. It lights things up where you might not otherwise recognize them... I see God all around me. Thanks for this compelling question.
Presumably you don't mean that you see a god out there somewhere, but rather that you see what it has done - the effects of its actions.
What is the reasoning used to decide that it was a god that made those things you are looking at? Is there something more than "Well, I don't understand how it could have happened without a god so will postulate a god and believe in it"?
No. I mean that God really does answer my prayers! I am just being honest. I SEE God doing things - I see him working everywhere. You can't SEE the wind, but you feel it, right? It is there, right? Just my beliefs. I guess I am not just talking about the wonder of the universe and all the things we see with our eyes in creation - I am talking about the belief that God works through all of us - we are his hands on earth. I live this way, I feel when God wants me to do a certain thing (for myself or someone else) and I just do it. But really, I don't think it was me originating it.. something higher? And I witness the way others work in my life much the same way. So, I do see him. But as Catholics we believe he is a part of us/ we are part of him... so this is how I experience some of his being...
So what does he look like? Color, shape, size, etc? You SEE Him, and the only parts of the human body equipped to SEE are the eyes, so you can determine those things.
But wait. The next sentence is that it is just belief, no seeing, no knowledge and no evidence available. Just belief, coupled with imagination to fill in the gaps.
But wait. Then you do see him. And as a Catholic (irrelevant) it is belief, not truth, and that is the experience. Back to imagination and belief.
I confess, this post is impossible to follow, as you flip from a statement to the exact opposite, back again, and then reverse it all again Have you really considered WHAT you see, or are you spouting pretty sounding phrases and then trying to force them into making sense?
Sorry, but that certainly isn't being honest considering the state of the world and how many prayers never get answered.
That is highly unlikely, you only imagine such things.
Yes, the wind is the movement of our atmosphere, which we CAN see with scientific equipment. The wind does indeed exist and the entire planet knows it and agrees. Gods have not been shown to exist.
Sure, we can say the same thing about Allah, Zeus, Thor or any of other of the thousands of gods.
No, that's just you.
I'm sorry you feel that my faith is equivalent to imagination. Again, I respect your opinions and our differences. Well wishes!
Hey amiebutchko i bet your going after your prayers though, as opposed to just waiting for them....The people that don't believe our prayers have "already" been answered, are the one's i feel sorry for....I mean even the most "anti" religious person on here, would have to admit that we can have "anything" we want in life....All it requires is a "lot" of "effort" because if we just "received" what we prayed for, there would be no challenge or fun in life or excitement....I reckon "anti" creator people don't realize that once they go "after" their prayers, or rather their "heart felt" desires (not the minds desires), that's when they will start to feel a "presence" in their life, like "nothing" they've felt before.....I say "a lot" of work, but the "hard" part is communicating with our heart, to find out what our heart desires.....The rest is easy, however it takes time maybe even a lifetime.....I reckon it's as we do this, that all the signs/clues "help" from above, or where ever starts coming....I haven't imagined this happening to me (by the way, EncephaloiDead), just the same as i didn't imagine typing this.....However i will check next time i'm on here, just in case!haha......No but seriously amiebutchko i do feel something sometimes, it's taken me months to wrap my head around it, but for me now there "has" to be a creator. :-)
Dave36 you have a lot of questions, which is great. Regardless of what any of us believe we were given brains for several powerful reasons, and one of them is the ability to reason, or ask the question 'why'?
I also do not believe that we evolved from apes, my question to that has always been, "then why are there still apes?" But when I visit our local museum of natural history and see the skulls, etc from prehistoric man, it raises even more questions. Where do cavemen fit in the big scheme of things? If the God of the bible is real and he created us in his image, exactly what image is that? Of today's human? Of Neandrothal or Cromagnon man? Sorry I can't shed any light on your inquiries, I have more than enough of my own. Fascinating subject though, endless discussion to be had!
Because, we didn't evolve from apes. Both apes and humans had a common ancestor.
I haven't read the bible Llew Dako, & i don't know if i will to be honest....I'm not saying it's true or false or anything, as i wasn't there so i'll "never" know, i do know there is a lot of wisdom in it, & phrases that i do know are truly amazing by any ones standards....I'm hypothesizing at the moment that there is a creator, & before EncephaloiDead starts going on about evolution don't bother buddy.....Anyway Llew i think that if there's a creator, i reckon "no one" has "ever" met that creator, not whilst they've been alive.....Not even Jesus (if he existed), or the Buddha etc etc.....I think they "felt" something, rather than "knew" of a creator....Scientists lie or at least exaggerate all the time, just look at the big bang theory.....How many times are they gonna prove that one, all them years spouting off about black holes, now there saying they probably "don't" exist....I mean what would happen to the real info, if we had corrupt governments/scientists etc hiding something from us?....I'm not saying they are, but what if they was?.
From basing my life on good sense, the Big Bang theory makes much more sense than 1000's of Gods fighting over which God owns the World or Universe.
Who said anything about 1000's of god's, fighting over which one owns the world!lmao....Religion separates man, & "something" from "nothing", "everything" from "nothing" makes no sense!....Why don't you comment on what i actually posted, rather than coming on here "bashing" the "bible bashers"?lol....Just wondered.
I'm for Gods , like everyone can be God. Who is bashing the the God or Gods. I not the one the Jealous problem.
You were not inviting a 1000 culture or or the evolution belief of 85% of the people of this world also into your post too, were you not?
The Yahweh lord seems like a man, because no woman could mess things up this much.
Since both theories can not be soundly proven, you may be right. That would stop most people thinking with their ego first.
Why does it have to be the Big Bang or God poofing everything into being?
More likely it is neither, and something else entirely.
Using conventional punctuation really does help get a message across more clearly.
I wasn't trying to get a message across buddy i asked a hypothetical question, but unfortunately peeps aren't up to it....Their ego's won't let them!lol
Hi Dave 36, How's it going? Looks like everyone here is still going at it... Anyhow, I saw that there was a comment from from E. Dead & maybe you a few days ago, but now it isn't there. In any event, I never got a chance to read it, and now it is apparently gone.... so if you did reply I don't know what you (or ED) said. At any rate, I hope all is well with you and that you are enjoying your spiritual adventures.
I read another comment of yours on izetti's post about love & marriage a day ago or so. You had some great things to say about your girlfriend. I hope the both of you have a Happy Valentines day and everyday, for that matter. I won't be checking my email much as I no longer have internet service (for a while). Just as well, I need to get back to Word and start writing. Be well!
Dave, just some further thoughts on why God might not show himself, so I apologize in advance if I ramble on with this:)
There are two types of people, those who seek an understanding of the universe, and those who don't really care about that.
The majority are the ones who don't seek an understanding. They either still in the midst of their experience, don't care, or aren't at a stage of growth yet. Either way, whatever the purpose, they are content with the material world and their current existence. These can be either atheists or theists.
Then there is the smaller group, the ones who are seeking an understanding. They may have tired of this world and are ready to move on, if this world is just a place to have a physical experience. If this place is for the purpose of spiritual growth or a learning experience, then they have reached a stage when they ARE ready to move on or grow further. These can be either theists or atheists as well. A seeker is a seeker.
When the seeker is ready, they can then tune in to the clues, or the clues are made available to find. They are then able to tap into intuition and begin the process of discovery.
The earlier growth phase or experience would be ruined if it were blatantly obvious of why we were here. I think this is about what you were trying to get at in the first place. I am just kind of trying to work it out in my mind.
Wow janesix i loved what you wrote, & i'm definitely a seeker, & i know i always have been....Iv'e worked all over the world, & throughout the states....No matter where iv'e been, or what iv'e done iv'e always wondered about life....Iv'e always found myself stood on a balcony somewhere having fun, but then wondering how the locals live, & who they are etc....I mean it makes no sense to me that we just live, work, & then die, i'm not afraid of dying i just don't think we do die....When you mentioned clues i know exactly what you mean, & i would say iv'e had 7 of them....One of them was a blatant coincidence, that even my mind couldn't write off....My can't actually write any of them off, & that's the problem....Well it's not a problem for me as i'm still trying to tune back into them, as that's what i think we can try to do....Like you said when we're ready we can tune into them, & i reckon it's on;y possible if we're getting on top of our lives....I think as we do more of the things we love, & get rid of negative things in our lives, that frees our minds, & opens our heart....Then we get the signs/clues etc, to lead/guide us to what we're here for....So i have to keep trying to improve my life for the better, & help others along the way....I do however keep getting sucked back into old habits, so it's like Bruce Lee said it's continuous growth....It can't happen over night as what would we do then?, but we can speed it up by trying harder.....Iv'e just read that back, & i think your version was better!lol :-)
Dave36, fascinating topic, but there are many more ways to look at it than you've presented. Only one can be Truth, if any of them.
I don't claim to know Truth, and I'm certain that I don't, but I've been approaching Truth for the last 60 years. I've learned quite a few things along the way, studying Christianity (Southern Baptist), Scientology, Buddhism, Judaism, Kabbalah, Taoism and Christianity (non-denominational). I've seen dozens of full-blown miracles -- the kind that science will never explain. How do I know? Just read my article on Science and Religion:
http://thebibleshiddenwisdom.com/scienc … ligion.php
My current "truth" is that we are children of God, sound asleep, in human bodies. Genesis talks about this. It mentions this dual nature -- immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. We were created in God's image and likeness, but He is not Homo sapiens. We were also created from the dust of the ground (chemicals), but that is not the image and likeness of God.
The ultimate purpose for our being here is not a test or some kind of school. This is a rescue mission for immortal spirit or fallen angels (us) who have blinded ourselves with ego. We need to wake up, or as Christ put it, be "born again" of the spirit. I have tasted this on numerous occasions and it's such a "high" that I cannot describe.
Some people discount miracles saying that it's merely coincidence or chance. But walking on water is no accident. There is no sudden alignment of water molecules to support a person for several kilometers across the Sea of Galilee.
I experienced one such miracle in 1977 which I describe in "Anatomy of a Miracle" (Rod Martin).
God shows Himself to those who are worthy. As in any rescue mission, those who ignore the rescuers are not worthy. Those who spit at or attack the rescuers are less than not worthy. God answers all prayers instantly, but most people have so much doubt that all they get back from the Heavenly Father is more reason to continue their doubt. It's instantaneous. But if you want to walk on water, you have to know from your spiritual (true) self that it is possible, but you also have to have utter humility to receive the blessings from God. Without humble confidence, it's as good as no confidence at all.
Hey lone77star it's really great to hear your views, & you sound far more knowledgeable than me as far as religions....I haven't personally looked into any religion, although i have looked into Buddhism....I have read a lot on Philosophy, & have seen or read most of Alan Watts work.....I know i haven't been swayed in my opinion on life, & i certainly haven't been brainwashed along the way....(in fact i did disagree with Alan Watts conclusion on life)....Some people on here insist that i'm deluding myself, into believing there's more going on than meets the eye....Whereas i have to keep reminding them that it's only from my personal "first hand" experiences, that have led me to think this way....I haven't read anything or watched anything, that's making me think this way....All i started doing was meditating & emotions/feelings control, & i started about 8 months ago.....As far as knowing the truth i can't see any reason why it would benefit us knowing we do have a creator, not if we're here for some reason.....So if indeed we we're created it would be for a reason, & knowing that reason would void any purpose.....It is interesting what you say, about a rescue mission for souls that have blinded themselves with their ego....I know for a fact that the ego exists in all of us, & iv'e spent the good part of a year trying to control my ego....My ego mind was all the negative thoughts etc that i thought about others, & myself.....So since i gained control of that my life started to change (gradually), & it's like my instinct/intuition/heart has come into play.....I do know there is something that i need to change about myself deep down, & that's what i see as the test (maybe).....I live in a world now where doing the right thing for me, & others seems to be the hardest thing in the world to do.....I care about the starving kids in Africa etc, but hardly anyone i know gives them a second thought.....So i wonder why that is, & i reckon it's because of the "world wide ego".....I think the ego is in all of our minds, & the ego has the potential to do things that are bad for us....It also does things that are bad for others, but good for us, but at the same time it's all bad for us.....So every time we give in to this ego part of our mind, we then lose a bit of our will power.....So if we give in enough times we lose our free will, & also our will power, & we eventually turn into a bad person in general....On the other hand if we try to fight against our own ego we build will power, & therefore strong free will.....I know which one is the hardest, & it's the fighting our ego that's the hardest.....So i reckon any one who believes in evolution would have to agree, that "IF" life we're a test or whatever,,,,,,it's a blumming good one!lol.....Because i don't think anyone will know the answer, but if there is a creator the one's that are looking, or rather open to receive might be able to "feel" there's a creator, just like i did once.....Peeps will ask me "well, what did he look like"?, or "Prove it"!lol....All i'd say is i felt something energetic like nothing iv'e experienced before, (a new feeling if you like, that i didn't manifest myself), iv'e also seen a few visual effects that i'd never seen or heard about before.....All leading me to believe, that there's something going on that nobody has told me.....I mean i have a good grasp of world politics/the worlds economy/the celebrity culture,(& why it's there), also what the news actually is, how big corporations work, & who actually funds a lot of these scientists......There's more slaves in the world now than there has ever been, so are our governments really there to help us?.....Illegal wars & corrupt government officials, but we're supposed to just take their word on the biggest question there is!lol.....I would agree that all our prayers are already answered, but the hardest part is finding out what our real true prayers are.....I used to desire things in my mind now i try to find things that satisfy my heart/soul, whereas most people i know still want/pray from their minds.....So whether or not someone prays from their heart, or their mind it is already actually out there.....But only one will satisfy the heart/soul or lead to contentment, & that's the prayers from the heart.....IF i had to take a wild guess on life i'd say: We can be led by our heart/good, or our ego mind/bad.....Also in my theory Money = Bad/Evil....Technology = Neutral depending on which side uses it. :-)
Just on the subject of the bible lone77star, i haven't read it but probably will read it......I know a couple of bits from it, & they are critical bits of info i had to fully understand as i went along....For example: "Forgive them, they know not what they do", & "Judging others is just judging ourselves".....I really fully completely understand, the deep hidden meaning there....So that helped me a lot with combating my feelings/emotions when it came to myself & others.....Because those two passages or whatever their called, are talking specifically in my opinion about the "ego".....Once i realized the ego exists in everyone, that's when my life got a whole lot simpler/easier to understand....So those are two amazing tips on how to live a happier or more contented life, & was written thousands of years ago.
Sorry to be so late in response, Dave36. I was busy finishing my book and publishing it. And then I got busy studying Kabbalah from authentic Kabbalists. Wow!
These guys (Kabbalists) wrote the Bible (first 5 books) in code more than 3000 years ago. Now, that code has been released to the general public.
I highly recommend checking out the short film at,
...and if it interests you, to take the free Kabbalah training being offered. It's all about altruistic love -- that which will truly heal the world.
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