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Islamic teachings

  1. 68
    kashif habibposted 2 years ago

    Is there something you really dislike most in islamic teachings?Please be brief  and specific

    1. paradigmsearch profile image88
      paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      How about: "Kill anyone and everyone who disagrees with Islam"?

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        there is no rule which states kill everyone who disagrees with Islam.

        please don't take things out of context.... there are verses which state something similar to "find them and kill them" ... this was said while a war was taking place. In war, there is death in all parties involved.

        Jews / Christians & Muslims have lived in the same regions in peace (even as neighbors) during and after the time of prophet Muhammad.

    2. cjhunsinger profile image69
      cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Now that you bring it up, there are several things.  Islam like all deity beliefs subjugates people. It reduces people to no more than slaves to the representatives of the gods. Islam does not  play well with others. Islam is based on a mandate to believe
      in a god that has been cherry picked from Judaism and Christianity. Islam claims a truth without fact,  a truth without evidence and as  Christianity used and uses a sword
      to spread itself where it  is not wanted.
      Of all that the Koran says,  point to a truth that a reasonable man may examine.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        please try reading chapter 55. Al-Rehman.

        quranexplorer.com

        if you have troubles accessing then let me know.

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, and lets not forget that the punishment for leaving Islam is death.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        true... apostasy is treated as high treason in islam.

        Only until a few decades ago (1973) high treason was punished by death in all western countries. some still have a clause or two which allow the death penalty but the majority have shifted to life imprisonment.

        In any case : it can be argued why the rule applies after the following:

        "it is Qur'an 4:89 that is often quoted in Sharia courts as justification for the execution of an Apostate. However, the following verse Qur'an 4:90 expands on this to "Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."[36] In addition, the previous verse states that this verse refers to the hypocrites, "Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way." Quran 4: 88."
        ~ wikipedia.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, I don't see where that verse says anything about those leaving your faith. If it does then you should use it to change your own laws rather than trying to convince me that your laws are incorrect.

          See the problem is we in the west have secular laws. Laws for all people of different faiths. We can change religion with being killed. We can leave the country free from being killed, we do have laws that don't allow us to fight against our own countries. There currently are people who are leaving the west to fight for ISIS. Which is not treason yet, but they can be charged to alining themselves with a terrorist organization.

          Why would Islam need laws that result in death for leaving Islam. Do you think it's fair to charge extra taxes on those of other faiths?

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If your word alone will change the constitution of your country then you have a better system than ours. It will not work, as i do not have the power to change the laws set by all the islamic nations.

            Taxes - yes i think it is fair to have higher taxes if you are Guaranteed safety.

            Think of it this way ... i completed my studies in the UK. If i paid GBP 10,000 for my degree, then a citizen of UK paid GBP 2,500 for exactly the same degree. I had to show 3 times the money in my account to get a visa so they knew i could afford to travel and live in the UK for that amount of time. The same happens with Canada / Australia / America. Showing 3 times the money is understandable because they don't want me to become a burden on the economy.

            But i still had to pay 4 times the normal amount to get the same degree. I don't think that is fair either... but that's just how the system works even in the west. if you are a foreigner you pay more.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, of course you pay more. Most of post secondary education is paid with taxes. So if you are a resident and paying taxes, your education is subsidized by the government, however why would the government subsidize someone from another country? That person pays the full amount for the education as they should as they are most likely taking the spot of a citizen of the country.

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't know it came from the taxes. does it also apply if the parents have lived most of their life on welfare?

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes. However at least in my country very few people live their lives on well fair unless they have some kind of disability. Everyone in my country has equal rights to healthcare.

                2. CreeViking profile image93
                  CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Further, in Canada the poor have access to Student Loans which are guaranteed by the government.

                  If a student fails, drops out or for some other reason does not graduate then they are on the hook for the entire loan. If they do complete properly then much of the loan is 'forgiven'.

                  Well fare is not as easy as many non-Canadians think it is. It is certainly not a 100% certain thing.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    you have some really decent rules in effect. I cannot see that happening here with the leaders we currently have.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        How about the killing of the "blue-eyed" devil?

        1. arksys profile image92
          arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          if you could visit the tribal areas in pakistan you would find a number of people with blue eyes... maybe they were referring to those blue eyed people. smile

          search google for "blue eyed pashtun"

          Pashtun is the name of a Pashto speaking tribe found in pakistan.

    4. bethperry profile image90
      bethperryposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The Quran indeed has its share of beautiful passages, though it is ripe with contradictions. Mohammed goes from advocating forgiveness for transgressions to the encouragement of chopping off hands of thieves. There is the ridiculous passage that encourages a man to cleanse himself with dirt after having contact with a woman. And then there is just the pervasive amount of intolerance found within the Quran as well as the Hadiths. 

      One example of the intolerance to be found lies in the Quran 3.85, Surat Al Iman, "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good)".

      I do not deny that there are certain aesthetically attractive passages in the Quran. And I have much respect for the Sufi mysticism. But when it comes to the fundamental and historical aspects of the religion, I can understand why there is far too much cruelty, intolerance and contradiction for some to find it sacredly inspired.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        beth : I can see your point of view and it is valid, but you also have to understand the type of people prophet Muhammad had to deal with at the time. His goal was to bring the whole muslim community towards what you are calling sufism. You seem knowledgeable about the Quran and Hadith. you must have read the hadith when returning from war and people were living in peace, the Prophet said "Now it is time for the Greater Jihaad" ... the people asked what is the Greater Jihaad, he replied "the conquest of yourself" ... Sufism is all about improving yourself by going through various phases of the soul and ultimately finding a connection with God and total submission to Gods will.

        Now if the pagans and the followers of islam at the time were burying their girls alive, solely because of their gender ... he would lay down some strict rules to ensure it would not happen again. If they were attacked by pagans, then they would be harsh with the pagans. If the same pagans came to join islam he would invite them with open arms. He loved every soul in this world and wanted us all to find the light within ourselves, but with so many different kinds of people involved there is always a rocky road. Even sufism with all its love states that being polite to an aggressive person is foolish. I can find you the traditional quote for that if you like.

        I hope this helps you understand a little better ... and thanks for your input.

        1. bethperry profile image90
          bethperryposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You are welcome. I do not agree with your views on Mohammed, but you are polite, and I always appreciate that in a person. And yes, I have read them.
          BTW, I don't follow a pagan path that approves of burying girls alive. You may be thinking of the inflexible Roman patriarchal and Hera-worship paths. I am Norse and a follower of Freyja.

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Its fine ... i'm no scholar of islam and you don't have to agree with me at all. You seem like a learned and respectable person with an open mind; maybe a discussion with a muslim scholar would be better for you. Islam is also not a path that everyone would choose, that is understood clearly from the Quran. I'm just glad that apart from all the media against Islam, you can see the good side.

            I did not assume that you had any association with pagans. It was just an example of the type of people Muhammad had to deal with. If i offended you in any way, then i apologize, it was not my intention.

            I have never heard of Freyja to be honest. I will have to do some reading to get better acquainted with Norse Mythology.

            take care and God bless.

      2. CreeViking profile image93
        CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The Bible is also rife with Contradictions. Just sayin'

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That must mean they are both wrong.

    5. Frank Menchise profile image17
      Frank Menchiseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The attitude of the people of Islam, because they want to impose on the rest of the world their beliefs.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I can understand your concern frank and you are right about the people. We carry the wrong attitude.

      2. CreeViking profile image93
        CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Actually, I don't believe this. I feel this opinion is fear based and comes from Western media propagating a hatred for Islam.

        Most of the troops in ISIS for example are what we refer to as 'conscripts' - this means they are being FORCED into ISIS membership against their will. To me, forcing a human being to give up their free will on pain of death is a sin. Giving up your free will is also a sin - it is a rejection of God's gift.

        At any rate, the only source for this we have is outlets like CNN - which are propaganda based outlets and not true news. The goal of American media is to propagate a constant state of fear and war among the American people. To do this they will say anything, do anything, show anything they need to show, do or say in order to maintain this fear and hatred.

        How else would the American Government justify the construction of super carriers when they have no health care, rampant unemployment and a civilian population that appears to be getting more upity every day. Food stamps being cut, runaway national debt in the trillions. Bail outs for bankers and repossessions for every day ordinary citizens.

        Yes, there is a GREAT need for massive distraction in America today. Islam is only the selected target for that distraction. All military/industrial complexes need an enemy to be constantly present in order to justify the waste (oops, I mean expense). No enemy? No justification for massive aircraft carriers and various other wastes of resources.

        1. Frank Menchise profile image17
          Frank Menchiseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So, there are faults on propaganda on both sides, but religions and above all God should be above all this stuff, because God is the father of every living thing, and therefore follows that he can only love us all irrespective to which religion we belong; if any God does not represent love, and is not above what people want him to be, then that God is not worth following.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You had me at hello.

            Thanks.

          2. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Lovely. big_smile

          3. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            God caters for all. He does not pick a side.

            He is not in favour of killings ... He is in favour of mercy and peace ... His love is much greater than you could imagine. once you get passed the rubble you will see it.

          4. CreeViking profile image93
            CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            God is on no one side. Just because a Mullah or Priest makes this claim does not make it so at all.

            Preachers who say they speak for God are liars and manipulators nothing more. Christian, Islamic, Jew - makes no difference.

            There is only one God.

          5. CreeViking profile image93
            CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Man uses God to propagate whatever agenda they have. Don't blame God when an confused Islamist murders some poor christian or whatever. Blame instead the humans who confused him to begin with.

            and don't let yourself become confused in the tangled mess of propaganda and half truths. Study Islam for yourself and then ask yourself why you hate it... or even if you still hate it.

    6. Jomine Jose profile image78
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Superstition.
      I can't be more brief and specific.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        covers a number of religions ...

        1. Jomine Jose profile image78
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          All religions.  The difference between religions is only in the degree of violence perpetrated by its followers.

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            can't you consider the fact that the free will of a human could be the cause of violence?

            lets take religion totally out of this world right now... don't you think people will use racism or some other measure such as wealth to fight?

            1. Jomine Jose profile image78
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But the degree of violence will be far less. Even racists invoked god in support.
              Free will,  why should humans use free will to fight? They use all their will for survival and procreation.

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                the teachings of religion tell you to separate yourself from greed, envy, pride, etc... a proud person would possibly become a racist even though he did not follow any religion or believed in a God. there is nothing in religion which says a black man is better than a white or otherwise... yet people are racist, people kill for greed, and all the other major sins mentioned in christianity...

                Because of its popularity people use religion to fulfill their own hidden agenda, whatever the agenda may be. it is now used as a tool to justify mass killings. that is not fair to any of the religions, because that is not what religion teaches us.

                1. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  If religion is less a cause why most violence today is in the name of religion?
                  Religion is irrational belief. People who are irrational can be motivated to believe any nonsense and do anything.
                  "Because of its popularity people use religion to fulfill their own hidden agenda"
                  Is that why the prophet used it?

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    ive answered the first part of your question already, and you've stated it in your response.

                    Lets take the prophet as a normal human being for an instance. Why was he kicked out of mecca in the first place. Only because he thought differently and people wanted to believe in him? he forced no one to join him in the start. Rational or not was his choice. Its was life, let him live it how he wants to.

                    rational or not is not the matter ... people always come up with a difference of opinion and in most cases the majority wins... in the case of our prophet, they successfully kicked him out of mecca.

    7. Writer Fox profile image81
      Writer Foxposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I think this sums up the opinion of Islam by the civilized world right now. This is a statement from a speech by U.K Prime Minister David Cameron on August 29, when the terrorist threat level was raised to 'severe.'

      "The root cause of this threat to our security is quite clear. It is a poisonous ideology of Islamist extremism that is condemned by all faiths and by all faith leaders. It believes in using the most brutal forms of terrorism to force people to accept a warped world view and to live in an almost medieval state. A state in which its own citizens would suffer unimaginable brutality, including barbaric beheadings of those who refuse to convert to their warped version of Islam; the enslavement and raping of women; and the widespread slaughter of Muslims by fellow Muslims. And, of course, the exporting of terrorism abroad.

      "So this is about a battle between Islam on the one hand and extremists who want to abuse Islam on the other.It is absolutely vital that we make this distinction between religion and political ideology. Islam is a religion observed peacefully and devoutly by over 1 billion people. It is a source of spiritual guidance which daily inspires millions to countless acts of kindness.

      "Islamist extremism is a poisonous political ideology supported by a minority. These extremists, often funded by fanatics living comfortably far away from the battlefields, pervert the Islamic faith as a way of justifying their warped and barbaric ideology."

      After the video of another beheading of an American civilian, Steven Sotloff, circulated on the Internet yesterday, this statement was released:

      "We cannot find proper words to express the horror we feel at this gruesome killing. We Muslims cannot find ways even to express the way we feel about this criminal group called ISIS." – Leaders of the American Muslim community
      http://www.abna.ir/english/service/amer … story.html

      Unfortunately for Islamic adherents, the picture of Islam the world is seeing is the terrorist cult which purports to act in the name of all Islam and the teaching in the Quran.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        at least Mr. Cameron is spreading the right idea about islam.
        thanks for sharing.

  2. 68
    kashif habibposted 2 years ago

    OK thanks for replying- please quote this from Qur'an where have u read  this- individual act is not an Islamic teaching

    1. cjhunsinger profile image69
      cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Words are meaningless, actions are everything. I believe the Koran speaks to this.

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        actions of general people cannot be compared to the actions of a prophet.

        the general people will try their best to follow the prophet but cannot get to that level. so when you judge by actions please judge the actions of the prophet and not just a general person.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You mean the actions of a so called prophet who married a 7 year old and waited a full two years before having sex with her?

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            yes ... that's exactly the man i'm talking about.

            don't forget to lookup records of ages of marriages of others in the west. you'll be surprised.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              One would think a prophet would know better? Are you then propelled to marry 7 year olds and wait two years to consummate the marriage?

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                no.

                i'm sure you didn't check out what i had asked you otherwise i would be asking you the same question. that is if you "choose" to believe it.

  3. fpherj48 profile image80
    fpherj48posted 2 years ago

    I can be specific, but I cannot be brief, in explaining what I dislike about Islamic teachings.
    I actually did buy a book that explains the Quran and it's teachings....because my sane and logical mind and compassionate heart simply could not accept that any group describing itself as a Religion with a god.....could be so evil, hateful, barbaric and savage.  I wasn't really all that familiar with people who had a god who ordered them to terrorize, torture and murder human beings.  Or for that matter, put suicide bombers on some kind of pedestal like heroes for blowing up masses of people in the name of some religion.

    This is totally and completely against everything I believe in and know about the beauty and love of life.  The God I learned about was all-loving, forgiving and compassionate.  He wasn't a lunatic who thirsted for blood and the heads of His people, for choosing their own beliefs..

    Also, all that seems to be known about this "Mohammed" is that he was an illiterate, perverted camel farmer, who raped little girls and smoked (or ate) a lot of peyote.  So, it's not surprising that he "heard voices" and thought it was God speaking to him. The odd thing is that he couldn't write...so he had to memorize every word he heard in order to have someone write the quran for him?  That's a bit strange to begin with...wouldn't you say?

    I didn't recognize anyone god-like in the Quran text....just a lot of anger, hatred and killing.  You claim it's the same god as all other religions, but this simply cannot be the case.  The god I learned of BLESSED people with children to love and protect and nurture.  Your Allah tells you to KILL your own children as in Honor killings? Slice off the head of your own child? Egregious.. Preposterous and ludicrous. WHY, would a god create people just to have them slaughtered for one ignorant reason or another?

    The god of my youth instructed men to treat women with tenderness and respect, placing their needs before their own.  Men were to love, honor and protect their wives.  Muslims make it clear that women are nothing but slaves and property who have no rights and must be mistreated.....denied education and freedoms. Muslim men cut off the limbs of women and throw acid in their faces.   This is about as sick as it gets.

    Be honest and realistic, Kashif.....You really don't expect anyone with any degree of intelligence, common sense or love of life to LIKE islamic teachings, do you?  I suspect your question is a joke....isn't it.

    There you have it, kashif....."Ask, and you shall receive."   You ASKED, I gave you an answer. Any more questions?

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Mohammed smoked peyote? Isn't that indigenous to the New World?

      1. fpherj48 profile image80
        fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "peyote" may be a somewhat contemporary term, but it is used for one & the same-- "mescal"....which can be found in your dictionary. Been around since the beginning of time.  A natural hallucinogen.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Mescal is derived from a plant in Mexico. You should probably be able to locate that in your dictionary.

          If you want to dislike Islam, Mohammed or whatever. That's your choice. But, you should use facts when presenting your case. You shouldn't just make stuff up.

          1. fpherj48 profile image80
            fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Emile.....Thank you so much for your kindness.  I am well aware of what "mescal" is and where it grows. I LIVED in Mexico for 2 years.  If you would read my comment again, I used "mescal" as a way to explain that "peyote" is (a hallucinogen.)...and "yes" again, "peyote" is somewhat a newer term, as I said, but it does refer in general, to a wild plant (hallucinogen)
            I beg your pardon, but I made nothing up.  The information on the man called Mohammed was shared by a young former Muslim who spoke at a University in Georgia, 2 or 3 years ago.  I attended a series of lectures there and some things that I learned have stayed with me.  That's all. I have contributed all I care to on this particular thread.  I have just attempted to read further comments by the op, but I usually refuse to translate as I read since I haven't the time.  So much for that.
            You are correct that only facts should be used..Unnecessary for you to remind me, but thank you anyway. ..and Some of us should probably know a few facts before we jump to lecture another adult. But then, I could be wrong.  Please have a peaceful night.

            1. arksys profile image92
              arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              fpherj48 : i think you've been reading the wrong books and talking to the wrong people. Islam is not the way you have described it. I encourage you to read more...

              1. fpherj48 profile image80
                fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Am I also hearing and seeing things every single day in our newspapers and live videos where ISIS are invading the towns and lives of people who simply believe differently than they do?  Is it my "imagination" that we have seen photos of Islamist Savages holding the severed heads of Christians (whom they refer to as "Infidels")?   Is this your PEACEFUL religion?
                I am reading well-documented books by scholars and other intelligent individuals, many who are former Muslims or have been terrorized and tortured by these murdering thugs.
                I am not reading the "wrong" books.  I am seeing and hearing what Muslims are boldly showing the world.  They hate, they terrorize, oppress, torture, murder, rape and then CELEBRATE, laugh and dance on the blood of their victims......They WANT to be feared and hated.  Their lives are dedicated to every manner of savagery.   
                Are you seriously trying to justify this?  Do you really expect any Non-Muslim to listen to your foolish and deceitful insistence that THIS IS NOT ISLAM?   
                Then tell us please.....WHO are these Muslims who represent Islam?  You fear them so intensely, you dare not speak.

                1. arksys profile image92
                  arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  See its not that easy to understand ... you see muslims beheading others in your media ... I see innocent people being killed by american drones. I am not here to fight or argue... i'm here to discuss.

                  Walk with me through the west border of Pakistan and hear the stories of people who are filled with anger and hate against America because their house was bombed by drones which killed their fathers / mothers / sisters / brothers ... going to war and stepping in has done nothing for America. Try putting yourself in their shoes for a moment. here's a little scenario for you.

                  A child is born ... when he is 10 years old the bombings started and killed his entire family. All he hears is the american drone killed your family. All he sees for the next 10 years is bombs and bodies everywhere... they don't have easy access to weapons so they make knives and swords to protect themselves. if he has seen blood and guts lying on the road half of his life do you really expect that boy to become a good and decent person? It's impossible... he will become a savage. this war has ruined generations on this side of the world, and things like this don't go away fast. it ends a few generations after the war ends.

                  You may think there are so many muslims in america and so many have been caught by the authorities who were trying to create some kind of havoc. I would advise you to watch the HBO program called "The newburgh sting"... it might tell you some things you may not know already.

                  there is an old history of violence between shia and sunni muslims. I have many shia friends and they have many sunni friends. we all live peacefully together in the same city and enjoy dinners at each others houses... but there are people who can be bought ... a bomb is placed and one of the two who took the money say I did it... it starts a war. this has been done in quetta, pakistan a number of times... i have talked with journalists of the city and they say the same thing ... we live peacefully until a bomb explodes ... these are funded by countries which i don't need to name but also include muslim countries. they fight their wars on our soil. the poverty level is so high in the region that people accept money from wherever it comes from so they can feed their families... i've heard people have planted bombs for as low as $30.

                  its very easy to point fingers and blame people for what they are doing ... i know a minority of muslims are doing wrong ... but that doesn't represent the majority, nor does it represent Islam...

                  i've seen so many movies where american soldiers come back traumatized by what they have had to do in situations of war ... I know they are only movies but since there are so many incidents i am assuming it does happen to a number of soldiers. they do things they would not want to talk about and would never do those things in their lives ... the soldiers in the end leave the place ... what kind of frame of mind do you think a local would be in after such an incident who cannot even leave that place.

                  please try to understand that it is people we are talking about ... they are not savages. they are people with very little means of survival, living under circumstances no human would want to live in. something we cannot even begin to imagine.

                  the fault lies with leaders of countries not the people. they do not help. they do not support. everyone is bought and they turn their heads when required.

                  1. fpherj48 profile image80
                    fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    arksys...If any part of what you write is factual....if ALL of it or none of it is true......How are you explaining what your people do to their OWN people in the same country?....and so shamefully, all in the name of a god you call Allah?   Am I to accept your god is all about suffering, pain, and death of the cruelest form and this is perfectly acceptable? Your god is not at all about kindness and goodness and love...but the very opposite of this.  Why would I or any Non-muslim wish to READ or attempt to understand this corrupt, dangerous and destructive book that orders you to kill, behead, treat women as though they are lower than snakes.  The ultimate of insults is how Muslims mistreat and abuse the very human beings who give them life and bring them into the world..WOMEN...... This is  not a god....anyone can see you worship a demon, but call him a god.
                    It's very nice of you I'm sure to attempt to defend your Islam....and try to make others think it is something other than what we can SEE and hear for ourselves....but I'm afraid, until the "so-called" good, peaceful Muslims (if they exist) rise up with all power and strength and tenacity....take control of their countries and create better lives for all it's people......then how are we to believe you?  If as you say the poverty drives this evil.....there is no reason these countries must live in such poverty.  Your leaders live in castles of gold and gems. I'm sorry, Sir......I do not understand.  I only understand respect for life.

                  2. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The western media only reports those facts (or some semblance of fact) that propagate their agenda.

                    This is why Westerners are so hell bent on blowing up Islam. They only tell the western audience about the very worst of it. No where in western media did they mention that in Pakistan (and other Islamic nations) they have a festival every year wherein they slaughter a bull and distribute the meat to those poor within their communities for free. I seen a video of this festival - actually looks like a good time.

                    Americans do nothing but complain bitterly about 'useless welfare cases' whenever you wish to discuss helping the poor. They treat their poor like garbage and cops shoot them for sleeping on the rocks such as they did in New Mexico recently. They think that health care should be denied if you have no money. I wonder how many Jesus refused to heal cause the had no money eh? Americans sure don't seem to know anything about 'Christian compassion for those less fortunate than you' - they could learn something from this Islamic festival - if they were even aware of it's existence that is..

                    And every time an American drone kills some innocent civilians they are always portrayed as 'terrorists' - even though America can in no way shape or form PROVE that the people they killed were 'terrorists'.

                    America, a country governed by cronic liars, tells us they have 'evidence' of this or that atrocity yet will not present this evidence to anyone and tells us to 'trust them' - yeah right that will be the day.
                    Then an investigation is held by the UN and low and behold turns out American claims were totally false and misleading to begin with. Want an example: The Syrian 'Chemical weapons' attacks that America instantly tried to blame on Syrian government but the UN investigation quickly revealed that it was the American backed rebels who committed the atrocity as a false flag. The UN investigation then quickly revealed that the supplies for the attack probably came from Saudi Arabia.

                    So all this is why you should never accept a single media source as the sole source of information and instead read each article from a variety of different sources.

                    America (The Government) has too many lies to answer for before I will accept anything they say at face value again.

  4. gitachud profile image89
    gitachudposted 2 years ago

    Religious discussions can elicit all kinds of emotions -- its best to steer clear of them. ( I should follow my on advice!)

    1. fpherj48 profile image80
      fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      David....I can agree with you to some degree.  However, Mr. Habib asked a question and in light of the current & massive killing & insane bombing (Hamas/Israel)..as well as Isis/Iraq..Driving the kurds from their homes, into mountain tops with no food or water.....BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF THE SAME ISLAMIC SECT AS THE SUNNIS....his question, regardless of extremely poor timing.....should receive a few responses.
      Yes, I do believe he may be kind enough to explain to the world's "infidels" why Muslims, who follow the Islamic Religion, live, breathe and strive to kill and kill some more.  I appreciate being informed.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image88
        paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Good posts. The OP's response to my post obviously shows he is in some sort of denial.

        I also agree with gitachud's post and am outta here. big_smile big_smile big_smile

        1. fpherj48 profile image80
          fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          pds.....I want to believe that Mr. Habib will take the time to respond to my valid points and perhaps try to clear up what he thinks are misconceptions, most of the world has on Islam.  If he does not respond in a timely matter, I too am outta here.  I want to keep up on the nightly news programs coming out of Iraq and Israel.  The massive destruction and slaughter of innocents by crazed lunatics is rising and as usual, our Country has had to step in with assistance.

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            but no one asks your country to step in ... why don't you just build your economy and stop wasting money on war? why do you stay in the "oil region" and not help the somalian's instead?

            1. fpherj48 profile image80
              fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No one asks our country to step in??  Irfan!  What would possess you to say something so ludicrous?! Any and every Nation that gets their self into some sort of mess..begins whining, screaming and crying, "Where is America?  Why don't they help us?"  Please.  You were beginning to sound like a rational human being until you made that utterly ridiculous statement.  You insult my intelligence.

              Yes, we have our poor and homeless.....and our own problems.  MOST especially crooked Politicians.  I do not deny what is evident and true.  But I'm Blessed to live in America.  At the rate people from other countries continue to traipse into America, everyone obviously WANTS to live here. 

              We need not worry that we will be stoned or imprisoned or beheaded for making our own choices, speaking our mind, going to school.   Stop please Irfan...denying that Islam is a maniacal religion.  Do you think we are all blind, deaf, dumb and plain stupid?  Your high priests (whatever you call them) have stated loudly and clearly that the penalty for leaving Islam is death.  We know of women in prison awaiting their death because THEY WERE THE TRAGIC VICTIMS OF RAPE!!  How does a human justify PUNISHING THE VICTIM OF A CRIME...BUT NOT THE PERPETRATORS?  That practice speaks volumes of the ignorance that abounds within Islamist beliefs.  Saving "Honor" of a family by killing (stoning to death) a rape victim??  Yes, of course, this is rational and makes all the sense in the world.  Whatever you Neanderthals say.

              Save your strength, Irfan.  I am always willing to listen to anyone and discuss a topic, but my opponent must not be a blatant Liar.  I won't tolerate that.   Have a nice day. I have heard enough of your BULL......I don't know what they call BULL in your country, but I really don't want to know.  I know enough about the savagery and egregious ignorance to know BULL when I read it or hear it.

              Nice try.  I'm sure your Allah is proud of you.  You should marry a nice American Protestant woman.  She would straighten your derriere out in an instant.  Just start out by telling her she must bow to her husband, cover herself entirely from head to toe in the latest lovely and fashionable black burka, 24/7, never speak to a man in public, not drive, she may not be educated, and if she steps out of line just once...she's a dead duck.    Please....take a selfie waving Good Bye and send it to me.  May you rest in peace.

              1. CreeViking profile image93
                CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I do not recall a single country ever begging for American help the way you say they do, present some hard evidence, perhaps a link to the documents you are referring to.

                I DO recall illegitimate rebel groups with no recognition asking America for help and weapons, etc. but these are not 'countries'.

                And since these rebel groups have no official representation by the people it would be a VERY big stretch of the imagination to ASSUME that a 'country' asked for your 'help'

                1. fpherj48 profile image80
                  fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The first thing you assumed is that I directed my comment to anyone but Irfan.  It was my specific response to Irfan's specific comments to me.  If a reply is forthcoming, it should be from him.  Thank you anyway.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    everyone steps in, this is a public forum and not a private discussion. I think he knows what he's talking about and it is relevant to our discussion. Answer his questions if you can please.

              2. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                fpherj :

                I honestly don't know, which bubble you live in...

                A poll report by BBC (if you believe BBC) taken on June 3,2014 states: "The poll also finds that views of the United States have worsened around the world, led by sharp increases in negative views among citizens of Spain (up 19 points), Germany (up 18 points) and Brazil (up 15 points). "

                "Negative views of the USA are also up in all three African countries surveyed—up 13 points
                in Kenya, ten points in Ghana, and seven points in Nigeria. The proportions of positive
                ratings in these three countries have concurrently decreased averages of two digits. "

                if you want to review the report : http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/ … g-poll.pdf

                it seems to me you have a lot of emotions attached with your country. I know it may be hard for you to digest when you think you are helping someone and being accused of the opposite, but i would encourage you to take a step back and go through the details with an open mind.

                If america really is helping everyone ... why is there a negative? especially from countries like canada and australia?

                My australian friends have a saying "whenever america wants to boost its economy, it goes to war".

                Its not just my word anymore.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually Canada is rather fond of America, we don't always agree, but we are thankful that they are our neighbours. We are different and yet the same. When for instance we here that some countries don't allow girls to be educated and kill them if they try we step in.

                  Know we could simply leave the middle east alone and hope for the best, but you guys have groups like ISIS attempting to take over the world and have already threatened North America. Should we wait for another 9/11? Should we watch the images on TV of people in the middle east rejoicing in the streets while building fall over here.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    i guess you didn't read the BBC report.

                    I cannot keep discussing if you don't want to read or believe facts. you are in the minority of canadians who think well of america.

                  2. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually, most Canadians consider the American government to be untrustworthy and basically a threat to world peace. Some even consider them to be the biggest threat we have faced in the last 20 or 30 years or so.

                    Most Canadians consider American people with fondness but many of us feel they are mislead, deceived and basically confused, especially over what is happening within their own country. The constant foreign wars keeps the people in a constant state of distraction and many of them have no idea how close to the edge of the cliff their country really is.

                    The Canadian government is run by spineless pro-American conservatives who appoint thieves to our unelected senate and basically accept the word of the American Government at face value.

                    Yeah, I'm Canadian too

                2. fpherj48 profile image80
                  fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It's quite possible I live in a "bubble" of some sort.  I don't know which one, but even if I did know, it's really not your business nor your concern where my bubble is.......Now, are we done playing silly children's games?  Do you feel better?  I hope so, Irfan.
                  I did not claim that "Americans" are loved.  I'm well aware we are not.  I said that everyone and their damned Uncle wants to LIVE here.....and further, they DO want our help when they're in trouble....or at least what we can give them or do for them. 
                  You should also be aware the Americans are good and sick and tired of our Country GIVING to other countries while....as both you and I concurred, we have poverty and starving people.
                  I'm not in the Middle East.....nor was I in Viet Nam...nor any war.  Our Military is/was.  If any of this were up to me, we would NEVER have war.....anywhere, with anyone.  But that's not reality now is it?

                  I pay absolutely ZERO attention to POLLS.  I'm surprised you do.  We could take a Poll every hour round the clock in every area of the planet and each Poll would vary IN MANY WAYS TO MANY DEGREES.....continually.    Surely, you are smart enough to know this.  Polls......what a joke.

                  I also have not a single concern who has negative views of my country.  Fine...that's OK with me...it's my country not yours or theirs.  No one has to love my country.  In fact I prefer they stay out and live in their own damned country where they rightfully belong.  It's only important to me and my loved ones and fellow Americans that WE love our country....and anyone who doesn't should simply LEAVE.  Good Bye, Adios, Sayonara, Ciao.

                  No, I don't want nor need any "reports."  Thanks for the offer.  I do all my own research and also insist that others do their own research.  When readers ask me to supply sources, I ignore them.  If anyone truly wants information, clarification or "proof"...they can search for themselves.  I'm no one's gopher.

                  I don't feel badly that my country helps people who don't want to be helped.  I have always maintained that we need to stay here...mind our own business, keep our noses out of other countries...LET THEM SETTLE THEIR OWN ISSUES AND WORK OUT THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.  That may be the one and only thing we agree on Irfan......except that 96% of all governments are totally corrupt.   Personally I don't see how we even THINK we can solve issues in other countries.  We quite obviously have not begun to fix our own. 

                  My mind is OPEN, my heart is open and quite needless to say...my mouth is open.  I speak from where human beings should speak from....a combination of their mind, heart and spirit.  Anyone who chooses not to hear what I have to say.....may walk away, plug their ears or otherwise ignore me..  BUT...they MAY NOT attempt to stifle me, force-feed me garbage I am too intelligent and intuitive to fall for.....and under no circumstances can their opposition discourage me.   Often, I have been swayed to accept an alternate view/opinion wholeheartedly.  I am not blindly stubborn to my own detriment.

                  When you reach my age, have lived through what I have lived through, experienced enough to be certain of who you truly are and what your worth is and can do the right things because they are THE RIGHT THINGS TO DO...WITHOUT CONSULTING AN AGE-OLD HISTORY BOOK TO LOOK UP RULES AND INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO BE HUMANE, COMPASSIONATE AND DECENT.
                  Perhaps one day, we will talk again, Irfan.......Peace, Paula

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Paula,

                    I know we can't change the corrupt governments and people... it just seems like an impossible task. Truth is some are good at covering up their track and others are not. I hope one day all this greed will end.

                    LET THEM SETTLE THEIR OWN ISSUES AND WORK OUT THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.  this is a good statement. I wish somehow it could be possible. I have lived in america for a while and i know they are not bad people, but it makes it impossible for me to convince the tribal people here when the bombings don't stop. Our tribal west coast has the most compassionate and accommodating yet the most hard headed people. they are the kind of people who will put their life on the line for a guest in their house. It's impossible to convince them that american has good people too. All i can do is share my stories with them and let it sink in if it will.

                    I don't want to see war and neither do you .. nor do most of the people in our nations ...

                    this whole conversation has taken a dip into talking about peoples actions rather than the original "What problems do you have with Islam"... yes Islam may have problems... but there is a path of discipline and well being in the midst... the only thing I want people to see is that there is a beauty in it. to follow or not is the individuals choice and none of my concern.

                    although our discussion did get a little rough ... i hope there are no hard feelings. certainly none from my side.

                    take care and God bless. smile

                3. Quilligrapher profile image90
                  Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this



                  Salam, Irfan. Thank you for providing a link to the BBC poll.

                  With all due respect for Islam and for your beliefs, I must point out that you unfairly distort the world’s view of the US by selecting only negative statements about the USA from this BBC survey. You point to only six countries that have grown more negative in 2014 and you ignore all of the other countries that have reported having more positive views. It seems you have chosen to overlook many of the details of this study, which, in fact, reveals a substantial increase in positive views of the USA’s global influence since 2007. Perhaps you missed the following facts or, perhaps, you intentionally failed to mention them:

                  * The BBC Country Ratings Poll has only been conducted for 10 years. In the beginning, from 2005 until 2007, a majority of respondents reported unfavorable attitudes towards the USA “when negative views of the country significantly outnumbered positive ones.” {1}

                  *  However, starting with President Obama’s election in 2008, positive views of the USA rose significantly until “positive views were at a high (44%, up 19 points since 2007) and outnumbered negative ratings concurrently at
                  a low (38%).”
                  {2}

                  * You failed to mention that overall positive perceptions improved and negative views declined between 2008 to 2014. As a result, the USA’s net ratings average (mainly positive minus mainly negative ratings) in 11 long-term tracking countries declined over the last three years but in 2014 it is still more positive by over 20 percentage points than in 2007. {3}

                  * While 193 nations are members of the UN, only 23 took part in the 2014 survey. More than half of the nations polled reported more positive views than negative views. “Of the 23 countries surveyed about the USA’s influence in 2014, 12 countries hold positive views, nine hold negative views,”
                  {4}

                  * More than half (11 of 20 countries) survey both in 2013 and 2014 reported positive views of US influence greater than that country’s negative views. Globally, 42% of respondents were in favor of the US’s influence and 39% were not. “ On average, in the 20 tracking countries surveyed both in 2013 and 2014, 42 per cent of respondents hold positive views of the US influence in the world, while 39 per cent hold negative views.”{5}

                  Based upon the contents of this BBC survey, I suggest, Irfan, if I may use your own words, you should be the one to “take a step back and go through the details with an open mind.” You will learn how most countries are generally in favor of the role the US plays in the world. The fact that you disagree with the majority of long-term tracking countries, however, should not tempt you to ignore facts.

                  Many thanks for contributing to this discussion, Irfan. Thanks, too, for the link to the BBC survey. It clearly demonstrates how much the world’s view of US influence has improved over the last decade.
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
                  {1} http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/ … g-poll.pdf p.5
                  {2} Ibid.
                  {3} Ibid. p.6, graph Pt 2.
                  {4} Ibid. p.9.
                  {5} Ibid.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Wsalaam sir,

                    I'll be honest i did not read the whole document. The only reason i posted it was to show the current standings... not the history of likes and dislikes. it was to prove my point that a negative existed.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari urged the world on Wednesday to back his country against ISIS militants after the al-Qaeda offshoot released a video purportedly showing the beheading of a U.S. journalist kidnapped in Syria.

              No one huh?

              1. CreeViking profile image93
                CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Follow up reports state that the 'beheading' was a staged event and that this was not a journalist. I think most of these public internet based 'beheadings' are staged events designed to ensure western anger and hatred of the Islamic people. this is turn makes it far easier for the government to justify attacking said nations and organizations.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What follow up reports? Do you think the guys family was involved in the conspiracy?

                  1. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Various different sites are starting to cover this in more detail. RT, Al Jazeria as well as some conspiracy and alternative media outlets.

                    You are not required to accept the reports. To be honest everything we read and hear from the media has to be accepted on faith alone unless you are willing to go the extra mile to research the news story for accuracy, etc. Not many are. normally we just accept what is being broadcast at face value (that is our failing as a people - we should always be asking questions IMO)

                    Even the alternative media outlets that claim journalistic integrity, no government influence etc are STILL propagating their own agenda.

                    Another reason why I read the same story from several points of view and several news sources.

                  2. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    http://www.infowars.com/experts-james-f … kely-fake/

                    Not the best source but some interesting links and some interesting points they raise too.

                2. fpherj48 profile image80
                  fpherj48posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  CreeViking.....It would seem to me that nearly all the intelligent adults who participate in a forum, long ago ceased to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.....all make-believe childhood fantasies.
                  Thus, from what I understand, fiction and fantasy really don't have any merit in a forum of adult interest and serious discussion.  on the other hand, in all fairness, I suppose your Fairy Tales serve as entertainment for the terminally bored and daffy.  So, Thank you for presenting such a preposterous scenario......laughter is good for these individuals.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Paula...

                    you may have heard in the news that there is a peaceful protest currently going on in my city...i have to keep checking the news to see if the roads have opened up so i can go to work.

                    while checking the news ... Imran khan says to some USA official (richard osborne i think)... to keep their nose out of pakistani politics and stop trying to declare who is right and who is wrong. then he goes on to say if i become the prime minister then i will not be a puppet of the USA like our current government.

                    its in the news today over here ... please have a look on your side and let me know what they say about imran khan. i have a suspicion he will be shown as a negative personality.

                  2. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Research requires more than American based media outlets.

                    If your cutsy little attempt at insult was supposed to deter me from posting then you have failed. I must say that a prime tactic of those with no facts is to resort to insults in order to silence opposing voices. It's a key tactic I look for when determining if the one I am talking to or listening to actually has any idea what they are talking about.

                    And for any American to be giving ANY opinion on anything that is going on in this world while your Police in Ferguson arrest journalists and threaten innocent unarmed American citizens with military assault rifles is pure hypocrasy.

                    You say that Islam is bad, etc while your own police murder the homeless (New Mexico) and your police in St. Louis and Ferguson are threatening innocents into silence with Assault rifles. All while your 'integrity filled media' lies to the population about what is going on.

                    Your focus and research efforts would be much better spent determining just how badly your government is lying to you and just how far your liberties have been eroded rather than wasting your time researching a distraction.

  5. 68
    kashif habibposted 2 years ago

    OK with regards to your valid points please quote which valid history book u read which explains all your do called facts and if not u may live with what u said and be contended with it I just wanted an idea what u guys think my advice try to read Qur'an and history of Prpphet with some authenticuslim explanation and sourse I don't want u to remind what blood shed history other religions have like crusaders because I don't think it was to do with Christian teachings.That is all to u

    1. BigBlue54 profile image61
      BigBlue54posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting that you mention the blood shed by the crusaders but not that of the muslims who invaded Europe centuries before. Or does not the blood of Europeans count.

  6. 0
    Rad Manposted 2 years ago

    Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

    1. 68
      kashif habibposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Please also read from 4:88 to 4:94 along with what u quoted and understand context of revelation that it was told to Muslims of madima how to act when hypocritoes showed there open denial to promices they made earlier  while in state of war and in that context to Muslims of Medina to fight in defence when required is better than to sit at home.Every ayat has a specific revelation story and time and reading without understanding context misleads specially Jehad related ayats thanks and my request when possible always read story behind that specific order to have better understanding Thanks

      1. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Kashif - Its always the same issues on hubpages. they never look at the context ... they only read 1 sentence. I wish they could learn further and find genuine issues, but it won't happen. Just like the people who asked for a miracle and after seeing the miracle they still did not believe.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          What does the context matter. ISIS feels it's at war and is behaving as it was taught to by the Quran.

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Osama bin laden kills 3,000.
            Bush and Obama kill more than 2.6 Million.

            Does context matter in this case?

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              We are not talking about Bush or Obama are we? Because of what is said in the Quran, Groups like ISIS start holy wars that kill others.

              BTW, where did you get 2.6 million?

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                they can name them holy wars as much as they like ... but that is not what they are doing and would not be approved by any of the great leaders of islam. Unfortunately we don't have any decent leaders left. but these are also one of the signs that we are approaching the day of judgement. there will be 72 different sects of islam at the end.

                I used to follow a site which gave numbers on the war on terror ... i stopped looking at it around 2012... it gave all the listed casualties, killed people etc etc. dont have the link anymore. the last time i checked the figure was 2.6 million in Pakistan / Afghanistan / Iraq ... Iraq had the highest figures of them all. these were recorded incidents ... unofficially they would be a lot more.

                a similar site : http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Index.aspx

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Where did you get 2.6 million?

                  The site you sent me listed 50152 death from 05 to 11 and it lists all death either by the hands of terrorist or armies.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It was a similar site as I mentioned earlier which had the 2.6 million figure. Will share if I find it. The other site was from 2001-2012

              2. CreeViking profile image93
                CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                ISIS is an arm of American policies in the Middle East - they are the American '5th Column' in that area.

                There job is to disrupt the countries such as Syria. Unfortunately, due to Russian and Chinese intervention in the Eastern Med. Syria did not collapse and the Americans were unable to bomb them out of existence (as they did in Libya which is now worse off than it ever was under previous management) the rebels - once they lost their American shield - were actually driven out of Syria and into Iraq where they just happened to come into possession of all the weapons and ammo they needed to continue their campaign. Conveniently left behind by the absolute worst military retreat and acts of pure cowardice I have ever seen a soldier demonstrate. In fact, it was so pathetic and so bad I think it was specifically setup so ISIS could get the equipment they needed without America 'selling' it to them 'over the counter' so to speak.

                But without American help, they won't succeed as none of the 'Arab spring' rebellions came even close to succeeding without full scale American intervention. Since the American plan to tie Russia up in the Ukraine has failed I don't think there will be much in the way of further overt American help for ISIS.

                Truth cannot be found in any one news source. None of them present the real facts of the story. You have to read about these events or study them by accessing multiple news sources from a variety of different countries. The four I use are CBC, BBC,RT and Al Jazeria. CNN is a joke, so is Fox news and, unfortunately, the rest of American media - they seem more determined to spread fear than to relay proper facts.

                Nothing in the Middle East is as 'cut and dry' as many westerners think it is.

                1. arksys profile image92
                  arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  thanks for sharing this info...  i stopped following the news a long time ago... too depressing.

                  1. CreeViking profile image93
                    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I read only stories that I feel are important and then I read or view articles on those stories from multiple sources from multiple countries. Then I compare them to each other to try and sort out the real facts from the imposed agenda.

                    One should not have to do this if there really was journalistic integrity ... but this is the real world.

        2. CreeViking profile image93
          CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          no one who quotes the bible actually puts things in proper context. ( or the Koran either for that matter) They pull out one sentence alone that supports their position and they try to sell their position as 'God's position' by using that one sentence.

          It is why I ignore organized religion (or at least one reason why)

          your 'beliefs' cannot be all they are cracked up to be if you have to deceive people into accepting them

  7. AntjuanDavis profile image61
    AntjuanDavisposted 2 years ago

    Well everything is in the results or the fruit. It doesn't matter what it is. When Jesus Christ was here the multitudes came, found peace, got healed of all kinds of sickness and found joy like never before.  If what you believe no matter what it is results in burnings, stoneings, be headings, women abuse, etc; then i would question the morality and truthfulness of the teachings. Both Christianity and Islam have been guilty of such results.

  8. CreeViking profile image93
    CreeVikingposted 2 years ago

    I dislike how Islam is represented by the Mullah's and other preachers of that faith.

    Specifically this :'the same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (42:13 AYA).

    The result of this view is that the scriptures given by these Prophets are considered to be genuine scriptures from God: But say, "We (Muslims) believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you (Jews & Christians); our Allah and your Allah is One" (29:46 AYA).

    So, in essence Islam, Judaism and Christianity are 'branches' of the same faith in God.

    Yet Christians and Jews are referred to as 'heretics' by Muslims - which according to the Koran is wrong! This opinion of the Mullahs is then used to propagate violence.

    All religions misrepresent themselves though so ...

    1. arksys profile image92
      arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      yes they are branches of the same God.

      The only reason christians are labelled as heretics is because christians made a man God. Jesus was only a messenger. He was not the lord God. that is also stated in the quran. do not associate anyone with God. its is known as "shirk", which is a major sin. this is the only reason.

      I agree with you that the talk of the mullah gets out of hand which causes violence. They need to be educated. In fact, priesthood has become a profession which was not the case in the times of the prophet. the most pious or elderly person (or both) would lead the prayers at the time.

      1. cjhunsinger profile image69
        cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this



        I would be very interested in the "facts' that you refer to. Can you list them please and and if you will, explain why you think they are facts. And if it is not to much of an inconvenience, if your definition differs from what is commonly accepted, explain why?

        1. arksys profile image92
          arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          cjhun : i will have to refer to the quran and will get back to you with quotes of anything that relates to christians... there is a chapter on Mary too ... will post in a couple of hours.

      2. CreeViking profile image93
        CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        That's an interesting point (Man God) and I never heard the term 'shirk' before so I am learning a new thing too. In Christianity it is the 'Name of the Lord' that you cannot take in vain.

        The debate regarding Jesus as a prophet or the son of God himself was one that raged way back when as well when Christianity was still 'setting itself up' so to speak. I do understand that part, I actually think the 'Son of God' part was added in later to help give the religion a boost in it's early days - roughly 300 years after the death of Jesus. The Trinity is unacceptable to a Islamic person as it violates the first commandment 'Thou shalt have no God before me'.

        I was born Christian but no longer practice that faith with any organized religion as I got tired of being lied to. I also refuse to let my government choose my enemies for me (or any organized religion either for that matter).

        I still consider myself a 'man of God' even though I will not associate with any organized religion at this point. So, in essence, I am not exactly sure what a 'Man of God' is from my perspective. Perhaps that's an interesting question to post?

        Why are the Jews considered 'heretics'? I am only curious as we discussed Christians but not Jews.

        1. arksys profile image92
          arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I specifically did not add the Jews because i have an idea but i'm not 100% sure...

          the idea lies in the day of sabbath ... they were told by God "no fishing on sabbath" i think that is saturday. The test for them was that the most fish arrived on the shores on saturday. So the Jews put up nets that would catch the fish and they would take out their fish on the next day. Then claimed they didn't fish on saturday. Basically, they were trying to play smart or cheat God.

          God left them because they could not be trusted. Which normally gives us the impression that if the tribe of the Jews tried to cheat God and we are nothing compared to God ... therefore jews cannot be trusted.

          this is the idea i had ... but i will get back to you on this with quotes from the Quran specifically talking about it and the real deal ... not what i've cooked up in my head.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Does the Quran teach to not trust Jewish people?

            1. arksys profile image92
              arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              that i will confirm when i have the quotes.

      3. arksys profile image92
        arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        here are a few of the quotes :

        Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA) : Verse 87
        Indeed, We gave Musa the Book, and after him We sent messengers, one following the other; and We gave clear signs to ‘Isa, the son of Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary), and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Then, how is it that every time a prophet came to you with what does not meet your desires, you grew arrogant? So, you gave the lie to a group (of the messengers) and killed others.
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

        Sura 5 - Al-Maeda (MADINA) : Verse 17
        Certainly, infidels are those who say, “God is the Masih, son of Maryam (Jesus son of Mary).” Say, “Who then has the power to do anything against Allah, if He wills to eliminate the Masih son of Maryam and his mother and all those on earth?” Unto Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what lies between them. He creates what He wills. Allah is powerful over everything.
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

        Sura 57 - Al-Hadid (MADINA) : Verse 27
        Then We made Our messengers follow them one after the other, then We sent after them ‘Isa, the son of Maryam (Jesus, son of Mary), and gave him the Injil, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of his followers. As for monasticism, it was invented by them; We did not ordain it for them, but (they adopted it) to seek Allah’s pleasure, then could not observe it as was due.  So We gave the believers from among them their reward. And many of them are sinners.
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

        Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA) : Verse 253
        Those are the messengers some of whom We have given excellence over some others. Among them there are ones to whom Allah spoke (directly) and He raised some of them steps higher (in other respects), and We gave clear signs to ‘Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary) and supported him with the Holy Spirit. [QETafseerComment] If Allah so willed, those succeeding him would have not fought against each other after clear signs had come to them. But they disagreed among themselves. So, there were some who believed and there were some who disbelieved, and if Allah so willed, they would have not fought against each other. But Allah does what He intends. [QETafseerComment]
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

        Tafseer (explanation) : Holy Spirit is the title of Gabriel who remained with Jesus as a guard to protect him from enemies.

        Tafseer 2 : Allah does what he intends : Allah had the power to force all of them to accept the truth, in which case there would be no religious differences, but the basic purpose was that everyone accepts the true faith with his choice and freewill, so they may be tested.

        These were some directly related to Jews and Christians. I guess from the first version i posted the reason seems to be arrogance. I think Pride is also a sin in christianity.

        Now i'll try to post a few on shirk.

        Sura 29 - Al-Ankaboot (MAKKA) : Verse 65
        So when they embark on a ship, they invoke Allah, having their faith purely in Him. But when He saves them (and brings them) to the land, in no time they start committing shirk (ascribing partners to Allah),
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

        Sura 31 - Luqman (MAKKA) : Verse 13
        Remember) when Luqman said to his son, while he was advising him, “My dear son, do not ascribe partners to Allah. Indeed, ascribing partners to Allah (shirk) is grave transgression.”
        Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani


        Wikipedia on Quran and shirk.
        Islamic commentators on the Qur'an have emphasized that pre-Islamic Arabic idolatry made a number of godlings (most memorably the three goddesses al-Manāt, al-Lāt and ʻUzzā) equal associates of Allah (as the Qur'an discusses in the 53rd surat) and the word mushrikūn (singular: mushrik) is often translated into English as "polytheists".

        Allah mentions the names of some of the idols in the Qu'ran and what the people of Prophet Nuh's community would say in an effort by the idolaters to ignore and mock Prophet Nuh. "They (idolaters) have said: "You shall not leave your gods nor shall you leave Wadd, nor Suwa', nor Yaghuth, nor Ya'uq nor Nasr." (Qur'an 71:23)

        Other forms of shirk include the worship of wealth and other material objects. This is pointed out in the Qur'an in one of the stories of the Children of Israel, when they took a calf made of gold for worship,[4] and for which Moses ordered them to repent.

        Another form of shirk mentioned in the Qur'an is to take scholars of religion, monks, divines, or religious lawyers as Lord(s) in practice by following their doctrines, and/or by following their rulings on what is lawful when it is at variance to the law or doctrines prescribed by God's revelation.

        --------------

        1. Jomine Jose profile image78
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So, is all violence the will of god?

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            free will... the little power you have gets the best of you and you fight. As Lonestar used to say on this forum... its the "ego".

            1. Jomine Jose profile image78
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Not ego. Only when a person finds that another is against his self interest he fights.
              If a robot I make malfunction it is my responsibility. Similarly if the human god make is prone to violence it's god's responsibility.
              But you will find that religion is one of the great   motivator for fight.

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                robots don't have free will so lets keep away from that.

                I can agree to the point that religion is a great motivation tool for violence ... a catalyst ... but it is not the root cause of violence.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What is the root cause of the violence from ISIS?

                  It will not prevent all violence that's for sure however it will prevent some and some is plenty.

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Rad man... if ISIS truly prevents violence i'm all for it.

                2. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Neither do humans. They act according to their genetics and experience.
                  But by the quote,  if god had "willed" humans could avoid fighting, couldn't they? So isn't it god's will?
                  Now, god has free will, hasn't he? But he is not choosing sin, is he? So why human beings choose fight, if not manufacturing defect?


                  Religion is the inciter of violence and by avoiding religion we can eliminate violence. Only psychopaths use violence for the sake of violence. By your own argument people use religion for violence. So why not shed this irrational belief in ancient books?

                  1. arksys profile image92
                    arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    would you like to have your free will taken away from you? what would be the point of testing a person if they have no free will. it is not a manufacturing defect. it has deliberately been put into you so you can be tested and trialed in the end. if he didn't allow violence, he would have to take free will from you.

                    in my opinion by avoiding religion we will lose a lot more than what will be gained. you have to weigh it out properly ...  just by avoiding violence you will not avoid death... for example : all the charity you give to people... why would you want to give a portion of what you have earned with your hard work? all those who are helped do not get the help they need and die. in some cases the suicide rates could go up. mental sickness will increase. there are just too many things to weigh out for things to balance.

                    everyone is not made of the same piece of clay, everyone has different attributes and as you said different genes and experience. for some irrational is necessary. for others it may not be.

                    the ancient books have helped millions if not billions, shape their lives... they would not follow something if they knew it didn't work. for example the fake prophet at the time of Malcom X ... when Malcom X found that the man was a liar he left him. When people believe something is true and correct and does not harm them, that is when the belief stays intact. there must be some kind of truth to these ancient books otherwise why would people in this day and age still use them.

        2. CreeViking profile image93
          CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Quote from your post: 'Another form of shirk mentioned in the Qur'an is to take scholars of religion, monks, divines, or religious lawyers as Lord(s) in practice by following their doctrines, and/or by following their rulings on what is lawful when it is at variance to the law or doctrines prescribed by God's revelation.'

          Does this mean that those who follow the mullahs who are preaching violence as if those mullahs were speaking with the voice of God are shirking?

          This definition seems to speak out against organized religion of any kind - if I am reading it correctly this just may become my absolute favorite passage from any holy book.

          1. arksys profile image92
            arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes it is a form of shirk. God has given everyone a brain... And the first verse to come to Muhammad was "iqra" which translates to "read - in the name of your Lord". Scholars define this as "gain knowledge of this world and the spiritual world equally".

            Other forms of shirk include wearing amulets / stones for protection from evils. God is your protector. Although insurance is becoming quite popular now in our country I think it is also a form of shirk. God is your insurer.
            If you do not have faith and trust in Allah then what is the point? The essence of believing in god is to have blind faith. Faith in the unseen. To have the belief that you are really protected by God.
            It would be the same as the story I told you earlier about the fishing. They said oh yes we have complete faith but they set aside nets as safety for the next days catch. This is an example of not having faith.

            There are major and minor shirks too... But shirk is one thing a Muslim needs to steer clear from because it expels you from the realm of Islam automatically and unless you repent and show you will not do it again you are headed for the eternal fire. Therefore not every Muslim who thinks they are a Muslim are going to paradise unless they acquire knowledge. Blind faith in a mulla won't work.

            More on the Jews : http://guidanceseeker.blogspot.com/2011 … 2.html?m=1

            1. arksys profile image92
              arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Correction : when you realize you have performed shirk yet choose to ignore or allow it you are expelled... You will feel a distance ... You will feel the hardening of your heart with time.

              When you repent you will be tested again and again to ensure that you will not do it again.

            2. CreeViking profile image93
              CreeVikingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Quote: 'But shirk is one thing a Muslim needs to steer clear from because it expels you from the realm of Islam automatically and unless you repent and show you will not do it again you are headed for the eternal fire.'

              Do you realize that this is the first time I have heard the word 'repent' in reference to the Islamic faith? Western media tries to convince us that there is no repentance in Islam, that all sins are mortal sins and you must be killed if you sin.

              interesting, gonna check into this further

              1. arksys profile image92
                arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                In Christianity you go to a priest and make confessions. In Islam it's all personal and is directly between you and God. If you repent with a sincere heart you are forgiven there and then. The time and place does not matter.

                For the people who point fingers at me and say "oh you are not a good Muslim" I normally refer them to the Quran quote which translates to "who are you to judge, who does not know what lies deep in my heart" ... It is a matter between me and God, keep your nose out of it and worry about yourself. To the elders, out of respect I just stay quiet and agree.

  9. fpherj48 profile image80
    fpherj48posted 2 years ago

    If one does not "get a bit rough," when discussing controversial topics with opposing views.....then you AGREE and argument is non-existent.  This in turn means it's just one big hug-fest.  How boring, Irfan.....don't you think? 
    I am a fair and honest debater, with the ability to hear out my opponent.  Each being steadfast in their position simply means we are independent-thinking individuals.  As far as I know, there is not yet a law against this.  GOOD THING it's not illegal, because I'd be in serious trouble.
    I have no hard feelings.....What a waste of perfectly useful energy that would be!   You take care as well....I.'m sure our paths will cross again.  After all, we both loiter in HubVille!  I may even read your hubs.....(that are not about "religion.")  smile

    1. arksys profile image92
      arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah Paula... we learn from each other this way and push our limits further.

      you won't find many islamic hubs so you don't need to worry about that... i'll check out a few of your hubs too...

      until next time. wink

  10. Janda Sousa profile image61
    Janda Sousaposted 2 years ago

    THANKS

  11. Tsukuyomi profile image62
    Tsukuyomiposted 2 years ago

    I think there is something that can be learned from every religion, although I am a christian and I believe that we can only make it to heaven through Jesus Christ, I also believe there is a lot of inspiration and insight to other religions

  12. 68
    kashif habibposted 2 years ago

    AOA Irfan , thanks for keeping forum alive.I was held up due to certain domestic problems.It has been good to see u presenting the picture at this side of Globe.Just wanted to know if u have any curiosity/experience in Sufism?i believe this knowledge is more important in now a days problems.

    1. arksys profile image92
      arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Wsalaam Kashif,

      yes i have read a bit about sufism and the main target in becoming a sufi is to control your 'nafs' ... i'm in the middle of understanding the whole thing... its phases that your soul passes through and ultimately removing the veils between you and Allah.

      Sufism is not actually a part of Islam, it was present before Islam ... its a separate thing entirely. But the Sufi's say that they need the discipline in islam to get to their destination... therefore they follow the islamic methods. 

      A quote from Essential Sufism.

      "Islam stresses honesty, charity, service, and other virtues that form a solid foundation for the spiritual practices of Sufism. A moral, ethical, and disciplined lifestyle is like a solid container that can hold the Sufi's mystical experience without its leaking or dissipating. In other words of my first Sufi teacher, Muzaffer Ozak, " Sufism without Islam is like a candle burning in the open without a lantern. There are winds which may blow that candle out. But if you have a lantern with glass protecting the flame, the candle will continue to burn safely."
      ~ James Fadiman & Robert Frager

      Their techniques are a little different to what is used more commonly in the muslim world. The main technique i've been pointed towards is called "tasawwuf" ... i've read a little about it and hope to gain a better understanding of it.

      1. 68
        kashif habibposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Aoa! thanks again.Just to share few thoughts .Sufism before Islam may be anything but is not the code for a Muslim to follow.Development of Sufis came in Islam when people started diverting from true spirit of Islam and a group came about who would focus more on clinsing of soul ,spirit and practicies as per teachings of Islam.Due to their focused life style people start calling them sufis and where greately influenced from them and  separate termonoligies and formulation of practices/patterns came about.It is therefore important to remember that any stranger philosophy or practice in name of suifism has no place in Islam.Quoting Hazarat Mujaddad Alimsani ,Islam has there elements knowledge,practice and  being sincere to Allah only for reward(ikhlas) and true sufi only follows sufism to consolidate all three essential elements within norms of teachings of Islam and nothing diffrerent.Only his virtues make him stand different fro others.Thanks again brother .Allah Hafiz

        1. arksys profile image92
          arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There is no like button next to posts... Anyways thanks for sharing. Some good info.

  13. Jay C OBrien profile image81
    Jay C OBrienposted 2 years ago

    Let us discuss not debate.  Discussion allows for people to share and change views and maybe adopt a totally new idea.  A debate polarizes an issue and neither side changes their view.

    I suggest everyone adopt the Peace Testimony:
    "I renounce war and fighting for any purpose or under any pretense whatsoever."

    We cannot control others, but we can control ourselves.  If there is any true judgment it is in an afterlife.  I believe God/Allah does not judge/condemn at all.  See Prodigal Son Luke 15:11-32 and The Adulteress John 8:4.  Further, Jesus said, "You judge by human standards, I judge no one."  John 8:15.  I believe we judge ourselves as in a mirror.  We are projecting our own wrath onto the outside world.  Learn not to judge (to the extent of creating negative emotions.)

    1. arksys profile image92
      arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you... in the Quran it says,

      Sura 34 - Saba (MAKKA) : Verse 26
      Say, “Our Lord will assemble us together, then will judge between us with truth. He is the best Judge, the All-Knowing.”
      Translation : Eng-Mufti Taqi Usmani

      Better to leave the judging to God can do the best you can.

  14. Jay C OBrien profile image81
    Jay C OBrienposted 2 years ago

    1.  Will you accept the Peace Testimony?
    2.  New Idea:  God does not judge/condemn, at all, ever.  All condemnation is a projection from us.  We are to emulate the teachings of Jesus (accepted in Islam) and not judge/condemn to the point of negative emotions.  Do you understand?

    1. arksys profile image92
      arksysposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      1. Yes I do accept the peace testimony. I have abided by this testimony all my life.

      2. Yes I do understand and agree... Of Jesus / Moses / David / Solomon (within the boundaries of Islam) and Muhammad ofcourse. No negatives. No preaching of negatives.

  15. Jay C OBrien profile image81
    Jay C OBrienposted 2 years ago

    Now if only every commentator would agree.

    Just for grins you may try reading, "My Telepathic Experiences."  How does this fit into Islam?

 
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