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The Reality of the Search for Spirituality

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    Emile Rposted 2 years ago

    It has occurred to me (as, I'm sure to thousands of others throughout the generations) that our search for the spiritual is somewhat pointless and an exercise in futility.

    If there is a part of us that transcends this reality, a part of us that is eternal; then it stands to reason that this part of us is aware of the march through the reality of time. It, if not an active participant in the creation of this reality, is at the very least not opposed to the the idea.

    So, searching for the ability to connect to that is in vain. Were it our higher will, we would already be connected. Until such time as the us which is aware of its place in eternity wants the part of us which is aware of its existence within this reality to be aware of the greater picture we are stuck.

    I do believe that there is a part of us that is connected and we struggle with the duality of this reality in our minds. Because the physical mind senses the disconnect and feels the need to attempt to understand it. But, if the duality exists we are truly attempting to invent a way around a disconnect set in place within a higher reality we cannot begin to comprehend at this juncture. If a true path existed it would be universally known.

    Religion has failed us miserably in the search. It can ease the mind from the struggle of attempting to understand the enigma. But, its only purpose (that I have found) is to fill a block with an answer which doesn't really answer anything.

    I guess my point is, does anyone think we will ever find the answers to the questions we spend a great deal of time arguing over? I'm not really interested in someone taking the trouble to provide your idea of the answer. There is no answer, as far as I am concerned. I've heard all of the arguments for and against; and I consider them all foolish beliefs.

    1. kess profile image60
      kessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Finding spirituality is to find peace which is to understand reality.
      Constant searching is constant agitation which itself is the blinding of one's  Own eyes...

      Quit searching and be real ( truthful) and you would find.

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. I agree. It has been my experience that the harder you search the further away you become. Just accepting your place as a part of the unified whole brings more peace and harmony.

        1. Sed-me profile image81
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I would love to pick your brain someday... find out what your experiences have been and see how they've differed from mine. Are you free for coffee today?

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This is very strange. I posted a reply and I don't see it.

            The gist of it was, if you supply the sweets to go with the coffee, I'm there.

            But, seriously. I would enjoy sitting over a cup of coffee with you and chatting.

            1. Sed-me profile image81
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I would have to get you a tiny little chair... and some Barbie clothes.

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                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well, that's not a good idea. We'd have someone (who will remain unnamed) insisting on providing the adult supervision. We wouldn't get a word in edgewise.

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        crissalinaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        i totally agree with your point of view

    2. Paul K Francis profile image82
      Paul K Francisposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If the search for spirituality becomes a struggle, give it up. But if we are the types that know that at some point we will continue our search, the idea of tossing it all out the window, or kicking it out the door as being futile, may in itself be futile. Take a break; let it be. Sometimes we find answers when we are not searching, and I am not talking about universal answers, but answers relating to our own personal awareness, less thinking it, more feeling it.

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I don't envision anyone giving up on the search. I think it is embedded in our genes to try. I was just in a mood when I started this thread, apparently.

        I don't doubt that, as an individual, many feel they have found the connection. But, you don't know. You can't prove it. You can't necessarily duplicate it. It's ephemeral. My experience has been that it's like passing through a wave of awareness that disappears as quickly as it came. You don't know how you got there (because  you can't stay in that state of awareness by a conscious choice) and you don't get a full glimpse of what there is.

        But, it seems to me that it is all about the individual experience which doesn't lend itself to patented processes which can be duplicated from one individual to another. If this is true, the collective attempt to create consensus on the what and how is pointless. So many want to lead, but even if they think they've found a light they are offering darkness to those they seek to pull down their path. They appear to get frustrated when no one is inclined to follow.

        I think we all have similar ideas as to what constitutes behavior patterns which imply enlightenment but, the more enlightened a person attempts to present themselves as, usually the less their behavior patterns fall in line with the common understanding of the term.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I believe there are reasons for this. Human reasons. I've seen the same pattern over and over again. One of the problems of being smart enough that you understand that we will someday die is that we are smart enough to understand that we will someday die. If the mind can get an out for that it will latch on to it and hide it's truth from our own minds. If the conscious mind is able to resolve or see it for what it is it will also not be able to see darker sides of itself. So we have something like what I just saw in another of one of these entertaining forums, someone being accused of aligning themselves with satan, killing and child abuse because he asked a simple question.

          As far as spirituality goes, I simply imagine that we are pulled by gravity by our planet which is spinning and rotating around our Sun which is on the outer edge of our galaxy which is just one of billions. It makes me feel insignificant and I can live with that.

    3. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is a force within us that no outside force may tap into. The thinking part of us is silent, yet we ourselves, hear it all the time (morning, noon, and night in the loudest of parties to the quietest of sleeptimes).
      This question seems to me, to be asking, "How do we find that obviously untappable force within us, without tapping into that untappable force within us?"
      A futile search indeed.

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        That isn't the question. The point is that it is there. In all of us. It isn't a question of our desire to find it as much as it is a question of its desire to be found.

        Those who claim knowledge are the ones who appear to have the least. It's the blind attempting to convince the blind that they can see.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Those who have found that force unbearable to dismiss, search.
          Some have found Jesus and stop searching. Those who believe him are satisfied.
          The largest question for others is, "How do i know that i can trust a Jesus; so many have great evidence against him?" The answer... the SAME way that you "know" that you may trust the words against him.

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This is what I said i wasn't interested in. People trying to impose beliefs easily seen as silly.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Impose? Oh! Well we have no issue then...
              Easily seen as silly???
              How do we tap into that force without tapping into that force???
              I guess perception is key.

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                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I like you, so don't take this wrong. I see no value, no insight, no merit in the beliefs you share.

    4. Antoine S profile image61
      Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I can definitely relate to this dilemma that we all share on this. One hope that I have is that you do get the opportunity to read this and that something within can grow from this experience. The interesting thing that I realized is how spot on your questions are putting you towards the answer your looking for. In Buddhism for example, (I hope this doesn't close your ears) the lesson taught is that enlightenment is like looking for a white elephant while riding a white elephant! Sometimes the answer is in the complexity of the thought (and not actually the words) because that brings about that enlightened perspective to understand your one step closer.

      I can understand from your readings how much of an understanding you have but in this tangled world that has weaved many webs the illusions before us are so abundant that the difficulties of understanding have become that much more difficult. In other words, we are disconnected exactly as you stated. We just have to understand that we have that connection and that that is the one thing that major religious entities have done to the masses, i.e. disconnected us from our source. The funny thing is, a person like you will continue to learn and the universe will continue to reveal itself to you until you have learned exactly what you were looking for.

      One more thing, you also need to realize us as human beings. Us as human beings we come with certain innate characteristics and traits and one of these things like it or not is: "Greed!" No matter what we seek we will always want more. The answer to this question will raise the question to another even better question! If you're giving up now on finding our answers then you should definitely get used to accepting that type of life in turn. But, your words are to articulately created, I feel this may be more of the beginning for you...

      Good Luck!
      Don't Give Up!

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      Ian Moonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well there's plenty of shaved headed, or long bearded, robe wearing weirdo's on utube, with strange vacant stares claiming to have realised the self & realised it to be nothing....So wtf are they still doing here then making vids & earning a ton of cash, if it's all for nothing & they know it for a fact?lol....I mean they all say it's "liberating" to realise the self is nothing, which is a totally backwards retarded thing to say in the first place....A spiritual leader telling us don't worry your nothing, & their so spiritual their gonna make vids earn a ton of cash & inform everyone "your nothing"!....Of course people are lazy & go along with these weirdo's, but don't think to actually try the training to see if their all bullshitters....In my opinion "anyone" who say's the self is nothing is not spiritual their just a bullshitter, their all con men frauds or at very best brainwashed into actually believing they've realised their real self....I mean is it possible that nothing could realise it's nothing, or is more probable that something could realise it's something by becoming aware?. :-)

      1. Antoine S profile image61
        Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You should check out Mother Abraham, she's pretty cool! Let me know what you think?

    6. oceansnsunsets profile image88
      oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Emile.  Yes, I think we will find the answers to the questions we spend a great deal of time talking about on these pages and elsewhere. 

      In the mean time.......  (And forgive me, its been a long week, or months really, and I am tired.... some thoughts..  Take it or leave it.)

      Humans are funny things.  We don't like what we don't like, and like what we like.  How we deal with the perceived negatives or actual ones, can trip us up in this search, or observational "phase".  The realities of life are not always so pleasant and perfect.  Sometimes I think we in a sense, demand this other "stuff" to be such. (Pleasant, perfect, adjusted to our preferences, etc.)  Why do we expect that, if we do?  We don't really do this with other facets of life where the limits are set and the lines are drawn.  We take great liberties where freedoms are allowed sometimes.  Is it simply because we can?  Even to our own possible detriment?  (And if so, what was proven?)  Whatever allowed us this precious and short search and life, has answers.  We might not want them, or approve though.  Not with current lenses anyway, but not all is as it seems, I think. 
      Was curious more about your second paragraph above. too.....

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I  cannot express how pleased I am that you have commented. Hopefully, this will bring any future conversations back in line with the intent of the OP and not drive conversations started which were at direct odds with my request.

        I agree with what you have written. We create little worlds in our own minds and then furtively wish that world were the reality within the cosmos. Us being the most important thing within it.

        The second paragraph you expressed an interest in was simply pondering why we don't know more. If we do have a 'soul', or there is a part of us that maintains an awareness after our physical form is gone; then that part must chose to not allow the transfer of information. If that were true, how do we circumvent that? It seems to me that there would be an active desire for us not to circumvent that and this desire was our own, on some level we aren't capable of understanding. Almost as if we fight against ourselves, in spite of ourselves, when actively searching for answers.

        I can't imagine little beings being created every time a sperm fertilizes an egg. If we look forward to an eternity of awareness I can only assume that this eternity for each of us started prior to the moment of conception. I'm of the opinion currently that who we are is simply a separation from the whole for the here and now; and that once this physical form passes away we simply become a part of the greater whole again. But, even then, a conscious decision was made to create the separation.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image88
          oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Emile.  I am a believer myself..... and don't mind talking about spiritual matters.  I know we have differing beliefs, and I certainly don't mind talking about the different ideas.  I believe in God, and well you kind of probably know the gist of what I believe.  I think there is definitely more going on than meets the eye.  I wanted to respond to some particular points you made and this may devolve into some "devil's advocate" stuff to flesh out some of the points, since it seems you might want to discuss it.  I think its important to, because this stuff is kind of huge, in the greater scheme of life, and our physical bodies spend a very short time here!

          You said, :"he second paragraph you expressed an interest in was simply pondering why we don't know more. If we do have a 'soul', or there is a part of us that maintains an awareness after our physical form is gone; then that part must chose to not allow the transfer of information. If that were true, how do we circumvent that? It seems to me that there would be an active desire for us not to circumvent that and this desire was our own, on some level we aren't capable of understanding. Almost as if we fight against ourselves, in spite of ourselves, when actively searching for answers.

          I can't imagine little beings being created every time a sperm fertilizes an egg. If we look forward to an eternity of awareness I can only assume that this eternity for each of us started prior to the moment of conception. I'm of the opinion currently that who we are is simply a separation from the whole for the here and now; and that once this physical form passes away we simply become a part of the greater whole again. But, even then, a conscious decision was made to create the separation."

          I have a few questions....  Why, if we have a soul, would it not be possible for that soul to have come into existence at the time of our conception? Or perhaps a better question, why would it have to be an eternal past soul, that goes into the eternal future?   Is the idea of limiting our knowledge upon entering the physical world with physical bodies only to get back to it afterwards, something you came up with yourself, or did  you adopt this idea from others?  I know there are general ideas like this floating around out there, and many believe something similar and have a worldview, but I am wondering what makes this idea gain so much traction in the first place?  I ask out of ignorance, I truly don't know the base from which this comes from.  If it IS true, why would be fight against the knowledge and suppress it to the degree you touch on, "fighting against ourselves, in spite of ourselves," if we are?  What kind of power would override our desires to not lose that information?  If there was such a power, isn't it bigger than us and the thing really in control anyway?  I assume some power there because you allude to this not being something we want but become subject to nonetheless, it seems.

          Do you really believe in the greater whole that you mentioned?  Who or what governs  all of that?  If just made up of all of our individual souls, A lot of individuals with different wills seems to add to this possible confusion, and we have nothing at all to do with our current being.  To me, it seems to be so much greater than what I am capable of by any stretch of the imagination. So it would have to be something outside of me, not me, that calls the shots.

          Sorry this has turned into a billion questions, but the last one is that I guess I wonder more about the greater whole you speak of, and how you have the knowledge of it?

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I think the idea of an eternal soul comes from many directions. Biblically; John was compared to Elijah (I think). There are many ways to view the statement, one of which he was Elijah. Another, he was like Elijah. But, look at the Dalai Lama. He is supposed to be the reincarnation of a previous one. Many people believe in reincarnation and there are examples of people who appear to have knowledge of a past life. BUT, there aren’t enough examples to consider that the norm. There aren’t enough examples to consider it 100% true. There are simply enough examples to wonder what might be the cause of such a phenomena. I think it is entirely possible that the flow of energy through the universe, and through time, could imply that there is a part of us that continues on and, at times, this part of us retains enough of its form from one life to the next that it would retain some memories.  I’m not of the opinion that this would be the norm. If it were, we should have more examples of it.

            So, if we do consider the possibility of reincarnation then we have to assume that life is not created by us. It is simply part of an ongoing process that has been in place since not only the beginning of life; but since the beginning of the process we are the product of. If we accept this, then it seems to me that it would follow that this part of us is aware of the process. If it is aware of the process than there have to be barriers which are, at the least, acquiesced to. If we believe in anything remotely resembling a soul then we accept the duality of our existence.  It would seem to me that soul, being aware prior to our birth, chooses to create the duality. We certainly don’t advocate it. We strive to overcome it. The power involved would have to be partially ours. Yes, there could be a greater power but the part of us which comes from that greater power would have to either agree, or be powerless to go against it. I don’t imagine a scenario where there are slave ‘souls’ trudging through time and at the mercy of some puppeteer.  It would seem to me such a reality, on such a large scale, would have to be harmonious.

            Yes, I do believe in a greater whole. I simply think the energy which drives us is united and the part which is separated into that which makes us unique is not unique, for more than a moment in eternity. I think it is simply a part of a cycle and the chances of it remaining even remotely unique are slim. Thus, the limited number of what I believe to be verifiable incidences of people who retain memories of past lives. If there is a greater reality, then I think our primary goal is to understand why this reality. Religion saddens me because it simply presents another reality with the same angst, the same problems, the same lack of solutions we see in this one. It usually presents a vengeful being who will ‘pay everyone back’ in the end. I just think this life is too ephemeral to matter. We can’t be held eternally responsible with vengeful retribution as the goal if we are so in the dark on anything beyond the borders of the reality we exist in. Sure, the journey is important and we have a great opportunity that we shouldn’t waste. But, I just think when this life is said and done and we are presented with the knowledge that has been withheld from us we’ll all sigh because we placed so much importance on things that are less than trivial in the final analysis.

  2. janesix profile image59
    janesixposted 2 years ago

    I don't think it's futile. I'll keep searching.

    1. Sed-me profile image81
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      +1 smile

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      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I don't doubt that we will all keep searching.

  3. aguasilver profile image86
    aguasilverposted 2 years ago

    Much as I would love to provide a clear and concise answer to you question,  only you can answer it at all.

    Fact seems to be that we are dumped into these human frames in order that we seek an answer, and that answer seems only to be available to folk who can demonstrate faith, which of course many folk are unable to do, as they require proof before they commit.

    Maybe that's why Yeshua said "Those who seek to save their lives will lose them... and those...."

    It's like Indiana Jones standing on the ledge pondering the required 'leap of faith'.... finally he steps off only to find he is walking on an previously invisible glass pathway... he would have stood there until he died unless he had taken that step, showing that he did not fear death, and that he trusted the instructions despite the fact that they made no sense.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well done you. Faith gets the answer, but you don't know what the answer is. lol

      1. aguasilver profile image86
        aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Actually I know very well the answer, what I said was "only you can answer it at all" and that's correct, each individual is charged with answering for themselves.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Of course you have the answers. Only the faithful get them. All different apparently. Hence the thousands of different answers. wink But only the special ones with faith.

          1. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Partly correct, but blinded by bias.

            "Only the faithful get them."

            Yes, in principal faith comes from hearing the word, understanding comes from holding on to that faith, studying the word and from the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

            Like many other things in life, one has to be prepared to expend some effort in order to achieve success.

            "All different apparently"

            You seem to be confusing answers received by faith and the Holy Spirit with Churchianity doctrinal positions.

            Yes there are (apparently) 33,000 doctrines out there, each one standing on their particular points of what constitutes 'essential' doctrine in order to belong to their group, however for those of us who have a relationship with Yeshua, it's His words, commandments and actions that determine how we interface with the world and Churchianity.

            Within these believers there is seldom any spiritual difference, because we are all using the same book, and all being guided by the same (only) Holy Spirit.

            "But only the special ones with faith"

            There is nothing 'special' about those who move in the Holy Spirit, except perhaps that they have chosen to do so when others turn away, mock or scorn Gods efforts to start a relationship with them.

            What you seem to demonstrate is an anger that you do not have this relationship, which looks to lead to you trying to castigate those who do.

            I believe that's called envy.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Trust me - nothing you have said has made me envious. wink

              I am not angry that you claim to be special and get information not privy to those of us who use their brains for the purpose of thinking. I mock you for it and point out how divisive you are. Not the same thing at all.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The ministry of Jesus was meant to divide. Yea from nay...
                Jesus divided; I just found my place on his side of the street by belief.
                Those across the street, see the "lights" over here... they do get a tad green.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Au contraire. Lights? More like a black hole.  lol lol

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Now it may be just me...but, doth thou not continually jumpeth therein??? wink I mean DAILY?
                    Somewhat fond of the "other" blackness which fiercely rejects?

              2. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "I mock you for it"

                Exactly what I said, but the question is WHY you feel the need to mock?

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Because your claims of superiority deserve to be mocked. Because they are divisive. This is not what you said at all. Please stop lying at me - I can read. wink

                  1. aguasilver profile image86
                    aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course Christianity is divisive, it divides the sheep from the goats, tares from the wheat, wise from the foolish, as people make their decision whether to trust God or the things of this world.

                    No lies, what I said, you confirmed, yes you may be able to read, but seem to show lack of understanding, possibly your spiritual controllers have filters in place to ensure you remain as such.

                    Yeshua is devisive,....... He stated it himself, we all will make that choice, it's the most important choice of our short lives, and there are an army of enemies set against us trying to stop us choosing Yeshua.

                    I understand that those who have rejected Yeshua feel indignation over those who have received His Holy Spirit, that's only natural (quite literally), it's even easier to understand the confusion of those who, despite all attempts, stay confused.

                    The truth is (and the way out of the maze) simplicity, one needs to put aside the worlds 'intellectual thinking' and become 'as a child' and ASK God, our Father to show you the way.

                    A contrite spirit and a broken heart He will not deny, but a froward 'man' He despises.

                    No, the above is not written for you Mr Atheist, but for those others who are not resentful but are seeking, and hoping to find the way.

                    Yeshua IS the Way, the truth and the light.

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                Ian Moonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The information that you need is all out there buddy, unless of course you've written off all possibilities already..The info is knowledge obtained by logically thinking about any question on life even meditate on them, until like the fictional character Sherlock Holmes you end up with the last possible answer....I'm sure you know the rest of the saying, & that last logical answer will give you a real realisation moment that it is the correct answer..So for example if you started with death it would eventually become obvious, that death has to be exactly the way it is otherwise life wouldn't be possible as we know it..Then look at why people "act" the way they do, & find out why they do it by asking your self why you do it etc..The Buddha said it's an inwards journey & that's exactly what it is buddy, it literally means your emotions feelings & thoughts which only you can have control of..That's the real reason why spirituality can't be realised by reading etc, & so there's no evidence to prove anything with apart from what the individual realises themselves through awareness training which leads to realisation moments..Best advice on the net buddy for free, just don't write off life just yet until you've come up with the last logical answer. :-)

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No it is not. Thing is - if it was - you religious types would not need to push it so hard. And at the same time contradicting yourself. Life wouldn't be possible without what again? lol lol

                  Bit of advice for you bud - try reading what you wrote before you post it - make sure it isn't contradictory nonsense. And buy yourself a better dictionary.

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                    Ian Moonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Who said i was religious buddy?, & i did say that it can't be understood by reading or talking about it..Stop being lazy & do some real life research & investigation your self, & stop listening to "other" people so much..OR tell me exactly how you realised the self is nothing?, in fact any Atheist on here tell me exactly how you realised the self to be nothing?..I can tell you how i realised the self to be something, & i could give you a detailed description of the self & how it feels to realise the self..You have fixed beliefs that your nothing because someone once said that, so wtf are you doing on here anyway?..It's a simple question buddy how did you do it, & wtf are you doing on here anyway?lol..The simple answer is you didn't realise anything at all, & your just bored people with nothing better to do than say the same old BS that you we're saying months ago..Just tell me how does nothing ever realise it's nothing?, & by the way i do believe you when you say your nothing, but that's only because i have realised the self to be something & what it means..So lets hear it a detailed description of how you realised what you profess to have realised, & i will pick it all apart logically in front of everyone eyes & prove you wrong.

                2. aguasilver profile image86
                  aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  smile smile smile smile smile Five star reply, with no one liner comment, HOME RUN!

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Excellent job on ignoring the points I made. well done - your master must be very pleased with you. wink

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      To look at the analogy a little closer, Indiana didn't necessarily trust the instructions that much; he wanted something more than he wanted his life and thus took the risk of following those instructions regardless of trusting them. 

      If your desire to never die is greater than your own ego (I am and will run my own life) then you will choose to believe regardless of knowing whether the belief is true or not.  Just as Indiana chose to step regardless of not knowing whether he would die or not.

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well, judging by his actions prior to stepping out of the entrance; I think Aqua gives a fair analogy. Hand over his heart, eyes closed, it looked as if he was attempting to will himself to faith. He did still have his free will. By free will he chose faith. His will was what he thought would make his faith powerful. He had seen enough during his travels to have the evidence needed to know that the magic was real. His only problem would have been the knowledge that if the item at the end of the quest wasn't real his faith would have been for naught and the leap would be to his death.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I don't remember and magic in that scene, just a problem with a riddle, but it's been a while since I've watched that movie.

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Magic witnessed in the movies prior to that one would have led him to believe it was real.

          2. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            It's probably been a while since any of us watched that movie, but the stepping off into apparent nothingness obviously stayed in my mind, though if anyone watches it again, correct me if I'm wrong.

            I won't watch it again, seeing a younger Harrison Ford depresses me too much!

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    crissalinaposted 2 years ago

    my conclusion after the same searching of answers in religion, meditation, denials and others: we are here to have an experience.
    clearly there is something more than this life, maybe we have eternal souls (even though... i don't think there is someone that could say this for sure), maybe we live in more dimensions simultaneously, maybe there is heaven and hell, maybe we take back the circle of life... but, the thing or the entity that created us, made us in such a way that we can't access this information. i did struggle to understand and maybe i managed doing so, as many others of course. but i didn't realised that with all these questions and search and this dipping in immortality, i lost moments of simple joy, i lost  laughs, sunshine, i lost the joy of simply existing.
    it is normal to ask and search, but this search sometimes makes us not to see that we are part of a wonderful experience:life.

  5. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I like you too Emile, and I cannot take any offense from being assumed to be a big ol air-headed dummy by one such as yourself. No problem. smile
    My knowledge is expected to totally miss you.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Genea. I apologize if I was a little short. I simply hate being preached to when I know the information is bogus. You don't have anything everyone else doesn't have. No one does. We are all the same. It's simply ego that drives the need to somehow be special.

      I don't need to be more special than you. If there were a cosmic reality where some were it would make me very sad.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No need to apologize, I do understand the frustration with the simplicity of "just trust" most individuals like it much harder than that. The ego screams, "That's it!!! There must be much more to my awesomeness!!!"
        But we don't have any...
        Why is it that faith in the God of Abraham, is deemed to be "special"? I do wonder...  Just as I do not have the ability to reason better than God. I am called "special".
        Can you imagine the power of such an adjective when I have not claimed any "special" power. I am called "special" by someone other than Mom... smile

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Argh. I have to go. I knew better.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Sometimes I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. I've been told I have an ego problem because I don't think the universe was created for us and I think we are a tiny insignificant spec on a planet a little to close to a star that is a fast burning short lived star (relatively speaking) on the outer edge of one of billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and planets. Now I get why people thought we were special when it was thought that the earth was the centre of the universe and everything revolved around it, but when we know our star only came into existence after the universe has existed for about 10 billion years how do people continue to think we are the apple of the universes/Gods eye?

            Sunday afternoon rant.

            1. bBerean profile image61
              bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

               

              My, that's a lot of counting.  Did I pay for that?



              Back when I was enduring my public school indoctrinations, times were simpler.  They only needed millions of years to make the impossible seem plausible.  "Once upon a time" takes much longer these days.  Sorry for being off topic, but sometimes when I see these comments I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry that the facts contradict your irrational beliefs. Must be hard for you. sad

                1. bBerean profile image61
                  bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  What are the facts you elude to?  I didn't see any.  Please be specific.

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh - sorry. What did you not understand? Please be specific.

                  2. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, I get it. You dispute the known age of the universe and our solar system. You may also dispute the number of stars in our galaxy and the number of galaxies. Why is that exactly, do you have evidence that overrides the current evidence?

  6. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    ...for the bi i i ble te e ells meee so o o. smile

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The bible also tells you to kill disobedient children and promiscuous girls.

      1. Sed-me profile image81
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Exhibit B

  7. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    That was before the Lord entered; completed the law; ushered in understanding; provided mercy; said follow my commands (bless them that curse you. Do good to them that hate you. Pray etc. etc...
    We just know better now...

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The bible says Jesus said that he did not come to change the laws, but yet people pretend he did just that. Why is that.

      1. Sed-me profile image81
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        He did not come to *abolish them, but to *fulfill them.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Fulfill, to bring to completion or to carry out? So he's not changing the laws just completing or carrying them out. Making sure the promiscuous girl is stoned? You're not making any sense.

          1. Sed-me profile image81
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This is a very good explanation. I hope it will be helpful. There is a link below that explains it in great detail... way more than I could in one sitting.

            "The Law expressed two demands. The first demand was total obedience and the second was death, in the event the first demand was not met. We have a sinful nature and will never live in total obedience to the Law as it was presented through Moses. Therefore, if we subject ourselves under the law, with hope that God will also endorse our subjecting ourselves under the law (for it was only given to the nation of Israel before the Messiah), there will only be one possible result. The only possible result is that we will fail to obey all of the commandments and will therefore be under the curses that were described right after the blessings in Deuteronomy 28. This was expressed well in Galatians 3:10, that if you are under the law, you are definitely under a curse, because you will never be obedient enough to be under the blessings.

            Jesus fulfilled both demands of the Law. The first demand He fulfilled by living a life in total absolute obedience to the Law. He was God manifested in the flesh, who came to live as a man, and He lived perfectly because there was no sin within Him. In this context Jesus fulfilled the law, by living in obedience to its demands. The Lord Jesus also fulfilled the second demand of the Law by dying for our sins. The law demanded death for anyone who did not live in obedience to it, and He died on behalf of everyone who failed to obey the law. In this context the Lord Jesus also fulfilled the law. When Jesus said that He came to fulfill, uphold and establish the law, He did so by teaching it, living in accordance with its demands, and dying on behalf of all those who failed through their sin."
            http://livinggodministries.net/fulfill_the_law.html

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Is that why none of you follow the teachings in the bible?

              1. Sed-me profile image81
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That's kind of a broad statement. Are you monitoring each and every one of us?

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Just the female preachers here and the many Christians I see not following the law. If there is a "real," Christian - I have never met them. Have you? wink

                  1. Sed-me profile image81
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I have. I showed you the most beautiful one I know and you... or ED... mocked her. But then look what they did to Jesus.

                    https://amazima.org/about-us/katies-story

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Forgive me, how do you pretend that makes any sense? You claim he showed us that one can live by those laws without what he calls sins (the sins he made up himself), while you also claim he wasn't a real man. So not being a real man and living by your own laws is not the same as being a real man and living by an others laws is it?

              Telling me again how getting crucified by your peers is somehow a sacrifice made for us? I believe the concept only makes sense to those who want it to make sense.

              1. Sed-me profile image81
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." Phil 2:5-8

  8. 0
    Bruce Kirklandposted 2 years ago

    Does spirituality answer a question?  What is that question? I don't know.  But I do know that there are times in our lives when we feel close to God and it's an indescribable feeling.  I think the question is can we control it and the answer is : no.

  9. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    A very poignant question from the creator of all things.
    Bberean, I would imagine that it would take at least a billion straight seconds to count billions of anything. But you'd probably lose your place after say two hundred or so. wink "The Lord has secrets known to no man." So says the bible. And I bet that this is just one of them.
    Hmph...billions of planets...

  10. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Because when he came, he explained that we should follow his commands. The Sabbath was for the people, not the people for the Sabbath. There is nothing that goes into you that makes you unclean, but that which comes out, and since Jomine didnt understand this one wink it means the things you produce (word/deed). He said, "You have always heard that you should love your brother (fellows) and hate thine enemy, (those outside the law) but I say unto you (notice the authority and the following "switch") love your enemy. wink
    See, before that time, it was "kill those who do not follow" (those outside the law).  But "everyone" deserved death. They did not recognize the purpose for killing those outside the law was to keep the pure purified. Jesus brought water which purified them all before God, and showed them the way. Most of them said as you do... they missed the party that they were first invited to.

  11. bBerean profile image61
    bBereanposted 2 years ago

    There is nothing prohibiting women from preaching, teaching, evangelizing or witnessing to unbelievers.  Verses continually being paraded out in the forums to try and silence our sisters refer to duties, responsibilties and organization within the body of Christ.  Any of you not considering yourselves in that catagory would do well to listen up.    wink

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      How odd I see them preaching and teaching other believers when they have different interpretations. Perhaps you could be more specific about where the bible says there is a difference between preaching at non believers and preaching at believers?

      Pretty sure much of Christendom agrees that women are not to preach at anyone, believers or otherwise.

      1. Sed-me profile image81
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I believe what you are having a hard time with is the fact that Paul taught that women should not be in authority over men. Is there anything that can be said that will help you to reconcile the fact that this is a biblical teaching or will you be perpetually offended by it? If so, I doubt there is anything we can say to help you.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven."

          "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

          Notice it doesn't say her man? It says a man.

          I hope your head is covered up? You have to admit that that's nonsense. Please say it's nonsense.

          1. Sed-me profile image81
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            He is speaking to the church about their group worship etiquette. You have to understand, you cannot take these verses out of context.

        2. Righteous Atheist profile image61
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Not having a hard time at all. You have explained very well that this does not apply to you. I am not offended by it - just wanting to understand why no biblical teachings seem to apply to believers.

          1. Sed-me profile image81
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            My absolute least favorite tactic is when someone throws the false statement out, it is addressed and the person pretends they never heard the response and continues on the same tack for the remainder of the thread. It is a tool used for the purpose of exasperation and it is super, incredibly boring.

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Read the Tim scripture; right above the one so happily quoted about wayward women blessed with the ability to know God while men who do not fear nor love the God of Abraham, sit idly by, "silently".
            The bible explains.
            Edit*** the chapter above.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              lol

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And you may be right. A lot of Christiandom think similar to you.
        We're going for God here though. wink

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Much as I am impressed that you know what god wants and much of christendom have got it wrong - they say the same as you. This must be the smallest religion in the world. wink

          1. Sed-me profile image81
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            There was a game show host in the US named Wink. In your next profile, will you come back as a "Wink?" That would be cool.

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So you HAVE been reading the scriptures. wink seems you "understand" some of it.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I understand all of it. That is why I am an atheist. wink

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So, where's the beef? (In the voice of one of my favorite childhood tv commercials smile )
                You have chosen to watch the light show from across the street? Grueling, right?

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Painful to watch actually. Still - hang on to your delusions of grandeur. I feel sure you can find a scripture to show how much better you are. wink

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Scripture does not bolster man nor woman. Scripture bolsters The Lord alone.

  12. 0
    Rad Manposted 2 years ago

    I like this one in particular.

    "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."

    Kept silent? How does that work? I wouldn't be married long if I duct taped my wife mouth should in church. LOL.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There's that, "...in the church" quote!  Thanks smile

  13. 0
    Emile Rposted 2 years ago

    Well there was a page and a half of dialogue I found interesting before it devolved into the usual. I suppose, that's about average.

    1. Sed-me profile image81
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Average (backwards R) Us!

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry Emile, but I do find it interesting how they somehow don't follow the laws they don't want to follow and pretend they don't have to.

    3. bBerean profile image61
      bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Lol.  It was the goat herder suggestion, wasn't it Emile?  Just a little levity, (although apropos if you think about it).

    4. Antoine S profile image61
      Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thumbs up!

  14. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    I have yet to see a woman or man who follows Christ, claim to be special or superior. That is the claim of the man who mocks and taunts the es"special"ly, superior.  That seems odd to me. Special, and superior, are great adjectives!!! smile to be awarded the title with no coaxing on your own part, reminds me of the scripture says he will raise you up... smile
    I have, however, heard the man who uses his own brain (for thinkn n reas'nin) claim superiority over the one who uses the mind of Christ.
    Watch...it's a really funny phenomenon.
    Blindness does spill over. smile.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I've seen this statement a lot. Coming from those who claim enlightenment. However, enlightment would imply that the enlightened was less obtuse than the average person but those who claim enlightenment appear the opposite.

      Do you not think that the claim of connection to a higher power would not be special, if true? Do you not think knowledge of a higher reality wouldn't make one superior, if true? Do you not think that the claim others will never have access, weren't meant to have access, is somehow a claim of superiority?

      All I can say is that you may not be in the habit of attempting to understand how your words come across. Which, by my observation, applies to many sides of this debate.

      1. aguasilver profile image86
        aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Nobody is claiming enlightenment or some special relationship, those are words used by others as a form of derision to believers.

        What a believer has, is available to ANYBODY, so there is nothing we can claim as special in that, special means it would only be available to a chosen few, but with a relationship with God it is the individual who does the choosing, not God.

        Also many believers choose only a peripheral relationship with God, from pew warmers to only calling on God for birth, christenings, weddings and deaths.

        They have access to what every other believer does, but they choose not to use what God has offered them. But they are no less valuable or less loved by God.

        It is always the individuals choice, and like exercise, of any kind, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

        So no superiority for believers, just that some people chose not to access what they can.

        1. Sed-me profile image81
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You said that very well.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Sadly it was untrue. Do none of you actually believe that telling falsehoods will get you burned? wink

            1. Sed-me profile image81
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Please develop an actual conversation as opposed to this constant barrage of one liners that do not represent reality.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Please stop bearing false witness against me. sad Try reading what aguasilver wrote in the first instance. wink

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  There you go, pushing the words of God again, with no membership card.
                  Are you trying to tell us, without telling us???

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Can't you understand? Oh dear. I thought you understood. sad

          2. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Unfortunately, it lacks inward reflection.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you first paragraph!!! That info is quite obvious yet missed by some, for some reason.
          Thank you all the rest of the paragraphs too. wink quite similar to the way God biblically puts it.
          I am so impressed by the spirit of God. It IS very special to me. Poured out all over the page. I am gratefully excited for the things to come.

        3. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The problem is that there is no evidence believers have anything. Other than a lot of words claiming to be in a special relationship with a higher being. That's the point. There would be something very special about having such so claiming it without proof and then claiming not to be claiming you are special is contradictive.

          1. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Aye, that's the problem Emile, you need to believe and have just a modicum of faith before God gives you the proof, it's a tricky conundrum but fact.

            I'm not claiming anything, I am declaring what the relationship that God desires with all humanity.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You might want to look up the word "fact," in a dictionary. wink

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No need, it is a fact that without faith, we cannot please God, and without faith, we cannot understand His words.

                Now I must sleep, besides which you still cannot rise above one liners and it bores me. sad

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Too lazy to look it up huh? Shocker. sad

                  Sweet dreams of the Rapture Mr ygewyrhta. wink

            2. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              There's the problem. I know what you are saying is false. For a fact. It's a Mexican standoff.

            3. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How may one come to "know" that this statement is false? I must say, it is a bit baffling.
              ...now what did I do with that darn thinking cap???
              Lol...

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There are ones who claim knowledge which far outstretched the Christian long ago. And the reason given for this is because Christians are unable to reason and rationalize to the standard needed to be considered "intellectual". smile (and that is funny)
        I believe your very words have "come across" in that fashion, more often than not. Maybe you are not aware...
        "Enlightenment" is not a term that the Christian uses. (See other religious sects)
        Knowledge of the "higher reality" of God belongs to ALL who ask (knock). It takes no level of superiority, but debasement...
        It is the "reasoning" mind such as the one the Atheist uses, that claims superiority in all things "thinking" (evident knowledge).
        It is the nonChristian who says, "I am superior, you waiting-on-the-Lord-who-OBVIOUSLY-aint-there, big dummy, who thinks not with your brain" wink not I...
        The naysayers have bestowed upon me the title of superior and special; without my asking. smile I think I like it...

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I'm aware of how I come across to you. You do bring it on yourself, I'm afraid.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No ay... wink the way you come across, is of absolutely no issue to me. Really!!!
            ...bring it on yourself... smile now THAT was funny... expect me to bring upon myself more. L O L

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Okee dokee. This is why I avoid conversations with you.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I do understand the hesitation. But please trust me when I say, I will never be running from you.

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I do however sometimes like how she integrates language and culture into her posts. I can sometimes almost her her slang.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Linguistics from Shakespeare to Shaft wink

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That's your gift girl friend.

      3. Antoine S profile image61
        Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Two Thumbs Up!!

      4. Antoine S profile image61
        Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Two Thumbs Up!!

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image61
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Please stop bearing false witness. Wow - almost like you don't actually believe any of it. wink

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Please stop using biblical terms haphazardly. It gives the impression that you long to cry for the Lord. When actually your motivation is to strike him.
        False witness means, saying you saw someone do something that you did not. I have not done that. I speak the truth here. Are you ashamed that you ACTUALLY claim to have a superior mind???

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes you have. sad I have never claimed such a thing nor do I think that is the case. Please stop bearing false witness against me (correct usage of a religionists word) . All I have ever done is pointed out the division and hatred your spreading the fear of the lord causes and asked you to stop doing so.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            False witness means not true witness. I have spoken truth. And so have the other Christians here. It seems that others here (and you and Rad seem to be kindred spirits) are trying really hard to correct Godly minds with unGodly thinking. But it don't work like that.
            You cannot say "false witness" to one who has spoken truth. I think there's a two point penalty for that. wink

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              sad ciao

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Chuckle of the century smile
                Did you read what you pasted before your fancy goodbye??? L O L...

          2. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Firstly, I have already answered and confirmed that scripture, and definitely the words of Yeshua are bound to cause division, for they call for EVERY human being to decide whether they believe in Yeshua or not, hence they divide the world into believers and non believers.

            So why harp on about it ceaselessly, you have obviously (at least for now) made your decision to not only not believe, but also to act as an antichrist, so be it, may it please God to reveal all truth to you before you leave this temporal plain and enter eternity.

            Secondly, the ONLY hatred I see expressed is coming from you, no believer would hate you (although we are permitted to 'hate' the enemies of God) because you obviously are incapable in your present mental state of understanding Gods love and message for a lost humanity.

            Thirdly, the 'fear of the Lord' is actually the beginning of wisdom, now you may not desire to have wisdom, in which case you will obviously be left with the fear, and as believers we know that God has not given us a spirit of fear, so fear comes from the enemy, which is natural, as until one has come to faith, and believed on Yeshua, one is under the dominion of the enemy.

            The enemy wishes that you fear God without gaining wisdom, and I must say you are a prime example of one who the enemy has fully deceived, for you reject God, whilst still fearing a God you deny, and then accuse believers of spreading fear.

            You have nothing to fear, unless you are wrong, in fact no atheist has anything to fear, because they believe in no gods, no retribution and no penalties for neglecting their eternal destiny.

            Annihilation on death is the only real alternative atheists can consider with any hope of retaining their non belief, whereas believing means loosing ones pride, accepting your errors and changing your lifestyle, albeit for a better one.

            Now, see if you can manage more than a one liner from the 'Atheist 101 Handbook'

            I almost yearn for the days of Mark and Ernie, at least they could string a few sentences together before they resorted to one line semi insults!

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Why is that the writers of the bible were opposed to knowledge again? Right from the beginning we are told knowledge of right and wrong was not something God wanted us to have. Why again are we constantly told we need to have the mind of a child to except God? Why again are told that any questioning of God is a temptation from satan?

              You've been had. Sounds more like someone would say to someone so that they could manipulate and control. Wake up man you've been had.

            2. Righteous Atheist profile image61
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Please stop lying at me. Fear means fear. Scared is not wisdom, simply yet another threat.  Certainly these threats do not work on me, but sticking them to children is child abuse. Constantly being threatened is annoying though. Odd to see you bitching about Faux news et al whipping up the fear when you do exactly the same thing. wink

              You are not wise - no matter how many times you claim to be wise while I am foolish. This is the real reason your religion causes so many conflicts and so much ill will - the constant claim to superiority you make. Oh Wise and Understanding One. lol

              Let us look at your claims shall we?

              Edited for brevity.

              This is why your religion causes division. You claim these things. Oh but god loves me as it despises me. lol You sure you are speaking for god when you tell me it despises me? wink

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Actually God loves you as a lost human, but despises what you represent when you act froward, but He still loved you enough to die for your sake, to give you the choice of leaving the enemies kingdom and entering His.

                Your choice, yours alone.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Awesome that it despises me for  something I am not. You sure you are speaking for god not yourself oh Wise and Understanding one?

                  He died huh? lol lol

          3. Antoine S profile image61
            Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Caan anyone explain how to read these posts? You post something as a reply it shows up over there? You're reading one thing, and reply it shows up somewhere else? I don't even know if my posts are actually posting or not? Anyway, one thing I appreciate is reading all you guys post. Better than most books I've read! LoL. Mr or Mrs. Emile? WoW! That's all I caan say. You got any books, I'd love to read them, LoL. Evidently I jumped into the wrong paragraph thinking I was able to share an experience with someone so experienced! Not intended in a disrespectful way, I really appreciate your knowledge. For myself, I joined this Hub to getting my writing skills on and perfected. You know write about a subject I'm passionate about! As I see there are many others that are just as passionate! The only distasteful part is all the bickering we're doing amongst each other on here when we're all actually just sharing knowledge. But, for some reason within that because of some belief differences we all losing respect for each other while communicating.
            Shouldn't we try to be better than that, and not in any egotistical way either. Anybody ever just quote Rodney King? "Can we all just get along?" Yes my writing language can be discombobulated, misspeeelleed and everything for anybody to critique me on! I'm human? Anybody here not? Either way it goes, please to meet ya'll! I'm just hoping for myself that within this element of trying to grow my writing skills that I don't lose myself in arguing and I can actually appreciate how much we express our love for communicating and writing!

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Chronological view top right of screen.
              Should help you see all available.

              1. Antoine S profile image61
                Antoine Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Mahalo!

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Uh...I don't know what button to push for that... lol

            2. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hey. I'm sure if your writing skills are superior or need work. I can't figure out if you are addressing my comments with sarcasm or understanding. Either way, good luck on your journey. Whether it be to better writing or whatever. smile

              1. Sed-me profile image81
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Ok, I only read the first paragraph, but maybe he's talking about threaded vs. chronological.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Somehow I got that despite my 3a.m.ish haze. He thanked me in Hawaiian smile

                2. 0
                  Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The first paragraph? I thought the whole post was just one long paragraph.

  15. bBerean profile image61
    bBereanposted 2 years ago

    That's not Mark?  Stolen avatar and tag lines are in play then.  Here's a winky to go with the observation.  wink

    1. aguasilver profile image86
      aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Actually had not thought it was Mark, but if it is, it's a mixed blessing, good that he is still with us, sorrow that he is still resorting to one liners and facetious comments, plus using a name wrongfully, as righteousness is not possible for any human, except they are masked by the righteousness of Yeshua, and somehow I suspect atheists are not, maybe he should re register as 'Self Righteous Atheist' smile

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        LOL you don't think any person can be morally right or justifiable?

      2. Righteous Atheist profile image61
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Just like you to ignore my valid comments and lie about what I said.

        Well done. wink

        I am righteous. This is a fact. Your lack of understanding and venom not withstanding.

        1. aguasilver profile image86
          aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So.... what is your real name, your birth name, and why do you hide behind a mask?

          I remember Mark asking the same thing once, of me, when I used an avatar other than my photo and the name I have 'aguasilver' (which I used as it was a business name of the time) rather than my own name 'John Harper'.

          Identify yourself Mr Righteous Atheist, if you are so righteous.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            And once again not addressing the points I made and showing no respect for my choices. No wonder your churchianity causes so many conflicts. sad

  16. lone77star profile image89
    lone77starposted 2 years ago

    What is the point of discussing this topic, Emile R, if you don't listen. You have preconceived ideas and use those as a filter to block out the answers you seek. You can do that forever and never receive your answer, because your "cup" is already full of old answers. (Emptying your cup [humility] is required.)

    Some people have had extraordinary experiences that transcend the physical. I've mentioned a few of my own and you illogically dismiss them. That's your right. You can do that, but it makes me wonder about your sincerity.

    If you truly wanted to know, you would have asked questions rather than judging out of hand. This tells me that you are being two-faced. Again, that's your right. You can do that, if you want. But just saying...

    I have studied a dozen sciences in-depth. I even have a bachelor's degree summa cum laude in computer science. My IQ isn't that high -- only 139 -- but what I lack there, I make up with imagination, creativity and persistence. Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge and I agree. Some people lack the imagination to imagine how something could work (beyond their own limited worldview). So, they (you) illogically dismiss an idea you clearly don't understand and with which you have no experience. That's like a pig farmer criticizing the idea of lunar dust. He's never been there.

    The "search for the spiritual is somewhat pointless and an exercise in futility?" That's like a blind man saying that buying different colored paints is pointless, because there's no such thing as color.

    My entire life, for as long as I can remember has been filled with spiritual experiences.

    If you want to be a millionaire, talk to millionaires. Find out how they think and what their attitudes are. If you want to be a top tennis star, talk to the best and watch them closely. Find out what makes them tick.

    But no, you blithely ignore people who've been there and claim yourself to be an expert, even though you haven't.

    Logically corrupt.

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is a difference between not listening and having listened and found claims lacking.

      I suppose I could empty my cup and let others fill it with their ego. But, no can do since I have listened and found claims lacking.

      We should not rehash old discussions here. Your 'experiences' do not warrant review. As with all outlandish claims they should be viewed with suspicion until such time as the person claiming it  can somehow demonstrate.

      Lots of people attempt to lead. Few find those willing to follow them and only a very small handful have proven themselves worthy of being followed. Primarily because they demonstrate with their actions the lessons they seek to teach.

      What I perceive from observation of your posts is an unsurpassed ego. Unsubstantiated claims, attempts to convince you should be viewed as a voice of authority. I see now you are claiming a decent IQ. Good for you. Many of us can claim an above average intelligence, or genius, by these tests. I'm not certain what that is meant to prove, in the current discussion. Some of the simplest people I know appear to have a greater sense of cosmic peace and understanding. You do realize Jesus was the son of a common laborer? Probably had a spotty education? Your list of 'accomplishments' doesn't imply spiritual intelligence. As a matter of fact, the more one grasps for acknowledgment by others the less inclined I am to see wisdom. There's more evidence of need and desire.

      So. Sorry lone star. I hope you find what you seek, but only if it doesn't infringe upon the spiritual growth of others.

  17. Righteous Atheist profile image61
    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago

    IN case you missed it: wink

  18. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    The Lord despises the spirit of wickedness. He wrestles not with flesh and blood.

    1. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Except of course, when he decides to flood the whole world, killing nearly everyone. And things like that.

      1. Righteous Atheist profile image61
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There is only 800 pages or so of that in the babble. lol

        Hardly worth mentioning what with all the "love' lol

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No more floods! smile he promised...
        Fire next time.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          He also promised Noah He would flood the whole world and kill every living animal.  Didn't happen - His promises don't mean much apparently.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No one MUST trust him.
            And how could you POSSIBLY know that the entire world did not flood??? Faith in some evidence, someone you do not know, said he found??? wink

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, we would have evidence of a world wide flood. We would have no fresh water fish alive. We would have no African people in Africa. Africa is by far the most genetically diverse population in the world. Africans are the only group without any Neanderthal genes. Do you think this family moved back into Africa, populated it and evolved dark skin and that much genetic diversity and removed all traces of Neanderthal genes in the last 3 thousand years?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                God can do, whatever he wants. smile
                Noah must've had original people genes right? Maybe God purified them and put him in Africa. Lol.
                God has secrets known to NO man.

            2. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Cause there isn't enough water to do that.  Cause the animals didn't die.  Cause man survived, and outside Noah.  Cause there is no record of a flood like that, and there would be.  Cause Noah couldn't survive the storms and lack of food either.  Cause, cause, cause - the list could go on for pages.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Or... it happened miraculously as the bible said. wink
                Doesn't hurt me NONE to feel that way. I look stupid to you? Well, ok... I think it's a plus though. I dont even know you smile and I depend on you for naught. The naughtiest. wink
                Don't mean you're insignificant to me. I just know that even if we agreed... we'd disagree on something.  This is one of those big somethings to me.
                But I like clear blue skies that sport puffy white clouds... how about you???

        2. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well, gee. That's something to look forward to.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            A small portion of the world will choose to miss the end fire.
            There is hope...

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I find that how despicable. Seriously. Who would hope to live with a mass murderer?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I pray to someday live with a mass, death; pain; sickness; hunger; evil; wickedness murderer, real soon.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm sorry to hear that, but it explains a lot.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    smile read that way... says a lot as well. A missed comfort for the taking. Poof... I told you... it totally misses you every time.
                    Your mind is superb. But it's been filled already.

  19. Sed-me profile image81
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Brand new day, same ole sludge.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thy turnip, haveth not, blood. smile

  20. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Nope! I just remembered... there will be no weeping there. smile

  21. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    He says, "learn of me." Now, it does us no good, but harm, if what we learn, makes us to nose-north.
    Can we judge his decisions?
    He asked Job, "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?"
    Empty cup learning... required. We don't know how to run no world...

    1. 0
      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Funny because this Christian philosophy espoused on Hub pages is all about attempting to run the world. 'Follow me or go to hell' is the gist of it. Empty cup learning appears to get bandied about a lot here. What it boils down to is that you think someone should bow to your judgment. Not just you. I've had people from several different philosophies self righteously complain about my not being able to do that. Maybe, it isn't so much a lack of an empty cup. Maybe you should review what you are offering to pour into another person's cup. I see what you offer as poison to the soul. Poison to the spirit. Poison that has nothing to do with anything more than earthly ambition. Unbridled ego attempting to validate its right to exist; to the detriment of others.

      1. Sed-me profile image81
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It always seems to be "us" against "them."
        But that's not what it's about.
        What does it matter?
        What if you believe differently than CG or me or anyone?
        Do we decide where your heart will lie?
        Do we decide what truths you will espouse?
        "Who do you say I am?"
        This is what it all comes down to.
        What will you do with the Christ?

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I think our widest divide lies within the fact that when someone like me says God; you tend to shine a light in my direction. A large probe/flood-light. You say genaea instead.
        I repeat biblical ideas and scripture and the tendency then, is to pour empty negativity about how flawed to you... how will you receive if you dont first believe?
        Imagine all the reports we get from "valid" sources and bogus "evidence" findings.
        We find out who it is, what his credentials are, what his report is... if all checks out, we heavily consider what he says. We "first believe" before we consider. Yes???
        No different with God. If we do not believe him...we will not take in any of his info.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Genea I don't see it that way at all. I see you as presenting opinions and attempting to pass them off as facts.

          Either way, I would ask you to respect the request in the OP and stop this line of argument.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "If a true path existed it would be universally known. I guess my point is, does anyone think we will ever find the answers to the questions we spend a great deal of time arguing over? I'm not really interested in someone taking the trouble to provide your idea of the answer. There is no answer, as far as I am concerned."

            I took the time to find out what we are discussing, based from the op.
            Seems we want to know if we may tap into the source... without tapping into the source.
            "We spend a great deal of time arguing over"... The Bible... a "universally known" truth. It is not, however, universally ACCEPTED as truth, but what else do we "spend a great deal of time arguing over"???
            The truth of the bible, is in the bible. Almost everyone has one... now. For I believe there will be a time, it is hard to find.
            Seems I'm right in step with the op to me...
            I've pasted a small portion of it as evidence...

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              This is why I usually avoid conversations with you. You ignore anything that doesn't give you reason to believe anyone is interested in your beliefs.  I specifically said, in the OP,

              'I'm not really interested in someone taking the trouble to provide your idea of the answer. There is no answer, as far as I am concerned. I've heard all of the arguments for and against; and I consider them all foolish beliefs.'

              Now you have just said 'The Bible... a "universally known" truth. It is not, however, universally ACCEPTED as truth.' That is your belief. A silly belief. Read the last line of the OP.

              Seriously, when someone makes a point of saying in their OP that they don't want to hear from non believers I don't come in and rant for page after page on my opinions. What makes you think I wouldn't expect the same courtesy from you?

  22. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago

    Oh, "I want to talk about spirituality, just not YOUR kind..." Am I closer???
    From whence does the term "spirit" originate?
    And what type of "spirit" are you looking for???
    Also, your continual reminders of why you DON'T talk to me, are starting to sound a bit moot.
    This would be the PERFECT post to start. I oknow it may be a bit rough to come up with a "valid" response.
    See ya around...

  23. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 2 years ago

    Emile  and  OCEANSNSUNSETS    for what it is worth; I can't agree more with you both.

         I think that when we were infants we were in touch with the spiritual aspects of reality  and as our environment teaches us how we are to survive in it, our awareness of the spiritual side slips away like sands of an hour glass.  These sands are not lost, simply transferred to the back side of our awareness.

       I think life is kinda like that old TV show "Fantasy Island".
    Knowing the events taking place were not really real, would have taken away all of the thrill and excitement.   
        How brave would Clint Eastwood's character really have been when he knew how it was going to end!
        The emotions his character was feeling during these events would not have existed.  If he had known all the answers beforehand, the whole experience would have been pointless.

      Well  ... something like that ??   
      Anyway ...This idea is something I can live with.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The only real truth is we never really know how it's going to end or how we are going to end. Everyone has spiritual experiences therefore we can't tie spirituality to any one religion. It's simply human nature to make sense of things and life is one of those things. The trick is understanding that and why do become superstitious about certain things and why those superstitions appear to make sense of the world. We end up having various superstitious groups telling us how it will end (Beth recently posted a very long description of what the bible says heaven will be like) when we don't even know how our own lives will end and it's sad when we do get that information as it's all about the journey through what we know to be our time here on earth.

      How many of us form irrational superstitions? Are all superstitions irrational?

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The only real truth is we never really know how it's going to end or how we are going to end.
        ----
        So verry verry true;  We can only hope that our wishes do come true.  So it would seem ..  we all have hope.
        =================
        Everyone has spiritual experiences therefore we can't tie spirituality to any one religion.
        ---
        Oh so very true again. An Individual's Spirituality  does not subscribe to doctrines of mankind.
        When I attempt to live according to someone else's ideologies, it seems that I am creating loopholes circumventing my own guilty conscious. 
        ================

        "it's all about the journey through what we know to be our time here on earth".
        ---
          Right on again !
        =============

        How many of us form irrational superstitions? Are all superstitions irrational ?
        ---
        I think all of us form irrational superstitions!  When we attempt to understand life or even anyone else's point of view about life; it is irrational.  We can not logically anticipate the actions of an irrational person.  And who among us are totally rational ?

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The trick is to recognize those irrational superstitions and or beliefs when they pop up and not be a slave to them.

          For example, is it a rational belief that Muslims under Sharia law should kill those who denounce Islam? No, it irrational.

          Is it a rational belief that Christians should kill disobedient teenagers or promiscuous girls? No, it irrational.

          Is it rational to adhere to those religions that have these barbaric laws? Sure, as long as one understands the infallibility of those texts. It appears Indonesia and Turkey have somehow made some sense out of Islam while Iran, Isis and Saudi Arabia have not.

          Given that, it appears to me that those who adhere to holy books as the perfect word of God are holding irrational beliefs and superstitions. Those who understand that these holy books may not be completely the strict word of God are more rational.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            sorry about the slow responses,...  washing clothes, ironing the most wrinkled shirts, & getting ready to watch Houston Dallas game.   
            =============-----


            The trick is to recognize those irrational superstitions and or beliefs when they pop up and not be a slave to them.
            ---
              that's easier said than done.   Tis easy to see the dirt on the back of someone else's knee's than it is our own.
            ===============

            Is it rational to adhere to those religions that have these barbaric laws?
            ---
            Is it rational to adhere to anyone else's beliefs when we disagree with them regardless weather political or religious.
            This is the problem when political beliefs and religious beliefs merge.
            =====================


            Those who understand that these holy books may not be completely the strict word of God are be more rational.
            ----
            We must realize that most every word being translated from the original text had numerous meanings.  And then we have different versions of understanding coming from translations which were intentionally leaning towards a particular theology.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No problem, I had to clean the house and go for a long fall bike ride.
              That's one way of making rational sense of the irrational.

          2. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Not at all, mainly because nowhere in the new covenant does Jehovah or Yeshua instruct us to do so.

            It was a given law maybe in the Torah, but never for Christians.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Even though Jesus said he came specially for Jews and also said he did not come to change the laws?

              But that is irrelevant to as it's still irrational that the God you describe would make those laws for anyone. It's irrational to believe otherwise.

              1. aguasilver profile image86
                aguasilverposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yes Yeshua was specifically here to bring salvation and liberty for Jehovah's chosen people, however, when the religious leaders chose to refuse Gods Kingdom here on earth, it was offered to the Gentiles.

                He came to 'fulfill' the laws, i.e. Jehovah gave us 10 commandments, which religious folk managed to make 600+ 'laws' from, and which nobody could keep in any case, which was the whole point of the commandments in the first place.

                Yeshua kept all the commandments perfectly, thus 'fulfilling' them as well as demonstrating that we can ONLY be righteous in Gods eyes by letting God guide us.

                Man has always wanted to be self righteous, even atheists apparently think they can be righteous, but right standing with God can only be achieved by standing 'under' Yeshuas' righteousness.

                Understanding comes from seeing these things from Gods perspective, not our self righteous world view perspective.

                1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Poor fellow,  he came to sell a product thinking his intended buyers would buy it but since they were not interested he had to sell it outside.

                  He gave it to the jews not "us".
                  Which are the 10 as said in bible? (what I am asking is the verse number not the exact words)


                  Perfectly,  how come. He was not showing any respect to his mother. And he was never doing any work but was preying on others and encouraged his followers not only to break sabat but to covet his neighbors property.

                  You see jesus has to get permission from his father who inturn have to get it from his father El.
                  So which god?
                  Apparently even animals are righteousness.


                  And to understand this god fellow one has to be gullible and believe that the book written by jewish charlatans is true.  But how do you reject the book by other people?

 
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