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Valid Reasoning and The Ten Commandments

  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I, KLH, stated that It is logical to follow The Ten Commandments because they are based on self preservation.   

    Righteous Atheist, however, responded with this rebuttal:

    "So - you don't know what 10% of the ten commandments even mean.

    Possibly the worst selection of ten morals to follow ever actually. "

    I am curious as to how and why he believes I am wrong.

    I may need help. I am not good with arguing for what is obviously true. But, I will try…. if no one else steps in.

    1. Jayne Lancer profile image91
      Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Doesn't this belong in the religious forums?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No, because there is the issue of valid reasoning. I say it (valid reasoning) is based on love. it is more of a free form discussion, in my mind. But I see it has been placed here. ( EDIT: I did mean for it to be in topical. Sorry.)

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That is not what you said at all. sad This is what you said:



      sad

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Isn't that what I said?
        "For Instance, it is logical to follow the Ten Commandments of Jesus or the Eightfold Path of Buddha because these guidelines will prevent us from suffering. It is reasonable to follow them, based on love for ourselves and others."

        I said it better the second time:
        "It is logical to follow the ten commandments because they are based on self preservation."
        (... not to mention the preservation of others.)

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No. Then you said this:



          And I responded as you quoted.

    3. Michael-Milec profile image60
      Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The " Ten commandments " as they are presented  are only audible spoken portion of the COVENANT between The YHWH- God the Creator and the israelites presented at Sinai. The Ten Commandments are summery or basis of the whole Law of Moses  ( Ex.20; Dt, 5 ) There are mentioned 203 others commandments as wells 2.713 commandments in the Law of Moses.
      If anyone doesn't want them or disagree with them, let him/her be better person morally and socially thus to prove the God of the Universe wrong.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "God of the Universe"

        You mean Mighty Triple O?

          (  I wrote: "I am convinced Mighty Tripple O, (an omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent force) would be a better name than "God".
        MTO for short. ")

        "May the force be with you."

        1. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No, what I wrote I mean the YHWEH , God the creator of the Universe;  I don't have any idea what/who "mighty" triple o " mto" might be; additionally to this I reject a "force "  because with me is the Spirit of the Living God YHWEH .

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            YHWEH, MTO  Heavenly Father, Divine Mother... its all the same force.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image60
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No further discussion on this theme. Have it your way.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Don't you think it's a bit dogmatic to insist on a particular name, Michael-Milec? God exists throughout the universe in the smallest of particles to the whole of its existence, including every galaxy.
                  ...and the dark matter as well.
                  God has EVERYTHING and can give ANYTHING. Still we deny His existence and argue over whether He exists or not!
                  And now his name. Give me a break.
                God is waiting patiently for our focus, devotion and love. He is smiling, knowing what beauty is in store for us.
                  and what joy... what fun.
                Yet we argue about trivialities such as what name He is to go by.
                It is a matter of expanding our consciousness.
                How?
                meditate!
                Pray.

                     Thanks for taking the time to respond here with valuable information regarding the origin of the Ten Commandments.
                (This is the true value of a forum… many people contributing their insights and knowledge. Naysayers provide road blocks to expanded awareness. Oh well. Maybe they make us work a little harder.)

                Michael, Milec:  Thank you for expressing your faith in God. You have your name for MTO or OOOF as we are calling Him here.  But, don't expect us to call him YHWH.

                But I am curious why you do.

                KLH

                1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hello KLH, you've got your break!(Haha) To me even this phrase has so many meanings. Why do "we'' argue - it is in human nature in quest for being right (vanity on my part ). I Don't really care what most of  the opinions  are. However, do not expect me to have fellowship with MTO or OOOF or turn back on the One who throughout history has communicated   as the real- to real with His people and have revealed  His name. In  my long walk in His righteous calling upon His name, H e    dind'nt object before answering, though showing me every time when I  have need  to be corrected as loving, merciful Father always expecting of me maximum in doing His will . He is a real person with a real name  and my expectation is not of anyone to  call Him YAHWEH- His Covenant name, used here by me only because  The Ten Commandments are related to His Covenant to His  people, though he has revealed Himself under  many others name -- which  everyone who wants to know them  can easily be lead to them by the presence of the Holy Spirit in them.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I really think He has a sense of humor and would respond to OOOF just fine.
                    I hear him laughing now.

                    Pardon My Craziness.

                    PS I pardon yours. smile ( I am suspecting you are Jewish.)

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I want to know what it is about the Ten Commandments that has anything to do with graven images or not being logical to follow.


    You shall have no other gods before Me.
    You shall not make idols.
    You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Honor your father and your mother.
    You shall not murder.
    You shall not commit adultery.
    You shall not steal.
    You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    You shall not covet.

    You shall not make idols. (graven images!)
    So, you think devotion to "God" is worshiping a graven image????
    HMMMM……

    Again I ask, what is a graven image?
    Could it be a STONE engraved with images of various gods as the ones in India? Wouldn't you agree there is logically no point in worshiping a stone or a made up god?
    We are  instructed to be devoted to a real "God" for our own good.


    PS I am convinced Mighty Tripple O (omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent) would be a better name than "God".
    MTO for short
    Father, however is sufficient. (Spiritual Father)

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well - as god does not exist - that is hardly for my own good is it? wink

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Of course MTO exists! look around! look within
        or not...
        your choice.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nonsense. Your choice to believe nonsense of course. wink

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The question remains, how and will any of these improve humanity?

      “You shall have no other gods before[a] me."
      Irrelevant to humanity.

      “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."
      Irrelevant to humanity, plus the majority Christians do this all the time.

      “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
      Irrelevant to humanity.

      “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
      A reasonable labour law that most Christians ignore.

      “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you."
      Clearly this was only directed to Gods chosen people who we are told he gave land to. Irrelevant to most of humanity and doesn't say what to do if your parents are crack heads. Should you honour crack heads? How about murdering crack heads?

      “You shall not murder."
      Great idea, unless your government calls on our children to go kill, then it's somehow honourable.

      “You shall not commit adultery."
      Great idea.

      “You shall not steal."
      Great idea, unless it's in the form of taxes that we don't want to pay. Then we tend to cheat as much as we can.

      “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour."
      You can lie, just don't get your neighbour put in jail for it.

      “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.”
      Here is an attempt at controlling thoughts, not actions.

      Notice it doesn't say anything about slavery, just mentions to not want your neighbour's slaves. Why not delete one of the first few that are irrelevant to humanity with something about not keeping slaves?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You keep using the word humanity. Humanity must be valuable to you.
        How often do you you use the word "I" or "me" or "myself" or even  "mine" in your daily life?


        Curious

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          My daily life is irrelevant to the discussion of ethics and morality. What is best for humanity is what we are discussing because what is best for me conflict with what's best for humanity.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What is best for you is what is best for humanity.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No, because I may be a murdering, bombing nut job. Do you see the difference, we ask whats good for humanity, murdering, bombing nut jobs are not good for humanity.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                -murdering and bombing are good for nut jobs?

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You give us a lot to think about.

    3. EncephaloiDead profile image59
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There you have it, Kathryn, the Commandments that are not logical, they are not needed and only tend to create conflict and division.

      The others are simply ways of behaving that can be reasoned. If we want to exist within a society, we don't want to do to others what we wouldn't want done to ourselves, ie. murder, theft, etc.

      It pretty much makes the entire list redundant.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    "Possibly the worst selection of ten morals to follow ever actually. "

    Can you explain the basis for your opinion. R.A.

    Very Curious.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you had only 10 instructions to give to someone in order to make them live a moral life - are these the 10 you would go with? wink

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well, there were more. Some how these were extracted. right?
        Then Jesus came along and said, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and love MTO with your whole body, mind and soul.
        I would have thought you would rather have less than more!
        Jesus gives us the basis for them all.
        Therefore I say, Jesus gives us the basis for all valid reasoning.


        PS you said:  "make them live a moral life."  No one MAKES us do anything. These are scientific and psychologically sound guidelines for peace, contentment and happiness within us.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No - the ones you quoted are the 10 commandments. And PSUUA. Thanks.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            FINE. (whatever you said.)

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You do know the ten commandments - right? sad

  4. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    Well... it's not logical to follow the Ten Commandments unless you're a Christian/believe in God. The first four are pretty specific to God, so unless you believe in him, they don't serve any purpose at all.

    "You shall not murder" is a pretty universally accepted moral and not at all specific to the Ten Commandments. Same with 7, 8, and 9 which all pretty much fall under the category of valuing the truth - again, another moral that is about as universal as they come.

    It's logical to think about how your actions affect yourself and others, to weigh up the benefits and risks of what you believe and how you behave as they relate to the people around you. But the Ten Commandments specifically? Nah. It kind of strikes me as "First you need to make sure that you worship me and let me explain why.... oh and by the way, don't kill people and stuff."

    Morality is separate from religion. It would be illogical for me, someone who doesn't believe in God, to follow the Ten Commandments when the parts actually pertaining to morality are present and significant in my life otherwise.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The first four indicate the reality of existence: Universal Consciousness. This is also known as Christ Consciousness

      You shall have no other gods before Me.
      You shall not make idols.
      You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
      Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

      The others pertain to living in that reality.

      The reality of existence is spirit/ love/ peace which equals the bliss or heaven which is potentially manifesting on earth if we understand it and apply it to action.
      Take it or Leave it.

      1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Not really interested in a conversation are you?

        You might want to look up the word "reality" in that dictionary I mentioned. wink

  5. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    They might indicate your perceived reality of your existence, but not mine. Therefore it wouldn't make any sense for me to refer to the Ten Commandments as my moral compass.

    Morality isn't dependent on religion or "Christ Consciousness" or whatever you want to call it.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Religion is based on the reality of Spirit.  Science verifies the reality of spirit.
      The basis of spirit is consciousness.
      Consciousness itself is evidence and proof of MTO

      1. Aime F profile image83
        Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Religion is based on a lot of things. I'm not sure what "science" you're referring to.

        Are you implying that religion and consciousness are inseparable?

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well yes, actually!

          But, many people throughout history have misinterpreted the teachings of the Bible or even the Gita and do not understand their religion appropriately in the correct light… It should be seen in the light of spiritual consciousness.

      2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Your lack of scientific knowledge is somewhat shocking. Science verifies no such thing. Science deals with reality. Measurable reality.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Science knows it cannot measure the essence of life. Man made tools are too gross.
          Q  Who can measure consciousness?
          A. Consciousness can only be detected by/with consciousness.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Dear me. Odd you asked any questions when you know everything.

            This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. wink

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What is my religion and how does it cause conflict?
              neutral ?

              Very Curious

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No - you are not. LOL

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes I am. really.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Atheists cannot disprove the existence of Spirit. Proof is all around us and within us.

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image59
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      My hovercraft is full of eels.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        My hovercraft is not. No wait, I don't have one.

        1. jlpark profile image91
          jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Prove you don't have one then Kathryn. See??? It doesn't work like that.

          The burden of proof is on the person stating that something exists. Therefore, the burden is not on atheists as they are not denying that God exists, they merely do not believe in God/s.

          So, when you say you don't have a hovercraft, but "Joe Bloggs" says you do - it is up to Joe to prove that you have in fact got a hovercraft.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Bring it on atheists. I'll be interested to see how atheism influences society. I'll be interested to see if individuals will be happier without the burdensome concept of God.
            - and without the reality of God, as well.

            1. Link10103 profile image80
              Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Gay couples in the US seem to be benefiting quite well.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Consider the dismal state of families. How many sad situations are children being raised in? I could tell you so many real life scenarios that would make you cry.
                Do not commit adultery. Without God in the foreground of our lives, why would we follow this or any of The Ten Commandments?
                WHY?
                No, we will just be doing whatever we damn well choose.
                Whatever seems right to ME.
                - or MY view of the way humanity should be. And good luck to anyone who disagrees with ME.


                TWISI

                1. Link10103 profile image80
                  Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you willing to clarify the correlation between a child being raised in a dismal environment and atheism? Because I certainly do not see any whatsoever.

                  As far as adultery goes...its human decency to actually commit to the person you pledged your life to. If you do not cheat on them because you fear gods wrath, you shouldnt be married to begin with.

                  Your logic falls flat on its face. How many atheists and people of other faiths are out there that lead happy lives and contribute to the betterment of society on a daily basis? I would imagine millions, none of them believe in your version of god or consequences, so why are they not out raping and pillaging the town? It might be because they are simply decent human beings....shocking right?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What is the point of life without God?
                    what is the point?
                    There is literally  N O  point.
                        ...as I said, we will slip into terrible times without God.
                    can't wait.
                      UGH!

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh dear me. One would think that if we simple believe in God there would be no divorce, unfortunately for you the statistics tell a much different story.

                  Religion    % have been divorced
                  Jews    30%
                  Non-denominational **    34%
                  Baptists    29%
                  Born-again Christians    27%
                  Mainline Protestants    25%
                  Mormons    24%
                  Catholics    21%
                  Lutherans    21%
                  Other Christians    24%
                  Atheists, Agnostics    21%

                  Now that you are no longer ignorant of the facts, perhaps you will rethink you thoughts. I've been married for 24 years and have never cheated on her nor do I have any intentions of ever doing so, and I don't need any God to tell me not to. All I need is an understanding not wanting to hurt those that I love. An understanding that ID or superego do not rule my mind. This is another example of how people who allow the superego to run their mind also all the ID to do whatever it likes even at the expense of those they love. Please don't pretend we need God to tell us to behave, because clearly that's not working.

                  1. 0
                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't your wife religious? I thought she was Catholic. Would not the success of your marriage be partly due to her?

                3. Jomine Jose profile image81
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So you would do whatever you choose and break all the commandments if there were no god?
                  Do you respect your parents because god told you to?
                  sad
                  I do it because I love them not because anyone told me to and I am doing it since my birth.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You are kind to them because you love them and you don't want to hurt the ones you love.

                    She wants us to be kind because God told us to. Some never get past that.

            2. jlpark profile image91
              jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Why go on the attack, when I was merely asking you to prove what is often requested of us as Atheists.

              SMH

  7. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    So... you think that morality is intertwined with the belief in God and the spiritual aspect of consciousness. Do you think then that telling the truth is right because God says it's right, or do you think God says it because he knows it's right?

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      To fool somemone is not in accordance to love.  Logically, it is wrong to lie. It creates the hell of discordance, etc.

      1. Aime F profile image83
        Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not sure that answers my question.

        Did God decide what is right/good/logical and that is why we believe it to be that way? Or does God simply apply logic when making the rules?

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          God??? what does God have to do with what we are saying???
          We were talking about the reasonableness of following the Ten Commandments. What are you talking about?

          1. Aime F profile image83
            Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I have no idea what God could possibly have to do with a discussion about the Ten Commandments.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What is your question? What is it you are trying to find out?  Happy to respond to a specific question if I know why its being asked.

              1. Aime F profile image83
                Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I thought we went over this already. I said it wouldn't be logical for most people to live life according to the Ten Commandments since a lot of it is God-specific. Then you said you that the God part was the reality part. Then you said religion and consciousness were inseparable. So I assumed that God was  relevant in your interpretation of the commandments. Though I've now come to the conclusion that I have no idea what you're trying to get at here.

                If it's a simple question of "are the non-God parts of the commandments reasonable to follow?" then the simple answer is yes, because they're just universally accepted morals. They have nothing to do with God specifically. But seeing as nearly half of the commandments are related to a belief in God, then I would say it's illogical to follow the commandments as someone who doesn't believe in God.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  …the way I see it, the "God parts" are misunderstood by most people.
                  You are not talking to a typical theist.
                  Unless you understand where I am coming from, you will not be able to accept my answer, so why would I bother? You want to argue against the typical. I have stated many times elsewhere that I have been an atheist.

  8. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    Well, I was asking the question in order to better understand where you're coming from. It's a question asked by Socrates regarding the Divine Command Theory, which I thought might be relevant to this conversation. Though I get the feeling that if I keep trying to guess what's relevant to this conversation that my brain will start to melt out of my ears, so... nevermind.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "Divine command theory is a meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action's status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God. The theory asserts that what is moral is determined by what God commands, and that to be moral is to follow his commands."


      Socrates asked a question in regards to this theory? What was it? Keep in mind that in Socrates time there were many gods.

      Very Curious

  9. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    A variation of what I was trying to ask you: "Does God command this particular action because it is morally right, or is it morally right because God commands it?"

    But if you don't think that God actually has anything to do with the Ten Commandments then you're right, it's probably not relevant. I brought it up because you suggested that religion and consciousness were inseparable, so I wanted to hear your thoughts on this.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Consciousness has to do with religion in that religion helps us connect to the Spirit of God. Why is this good? Because connecting to the Spirit of God is good for our consciousness. What do we get out of it? Joy and Peace.
      The Ten Commandments allows us to connect and stay connected to Spirit. Thats all.

      TWISI

      1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Nonsense. Surely asking questions with no intention of listening to the answers and instead finding a platform to push your irrational beliefs is lying?

        FAUOA

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          "Oh Dear' is usually said by a female. Its so cute when a Righteous Atheist dude says it.

          FAUYA

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Oh dear.

            VFAA

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              YPT

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Where have you been. We were starting to miss you!  Oops, I'm lying.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I know. sad

      2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Still curious? Wonder why when you have all the answers.

        SAWTA

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          BTW,
          TWISI = The Way I See It

      3. Aime F profile image83
        Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Now you're talking about God again after you just asked me what God had to do with this conversation.

        Commence brain explosion.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You wanted to know what religion had to do with consciousness.
          When I say "God" I mean the reality of Spirit (Of God) which manifests in all life and nature, on the earth and in the universe. Not the concept of an imagined commanding deity.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Thats it - keep on using words that mean something else to show us how much you know. lol lol

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I agree, it is a matter of reality vs imagined concepts. wink

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Not really. I suggest looking up the word "concept" while you are in that dictionary I suggested, looking up all the other words you don't seem to understand. wink

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  concept
                  concept |ˈkänˌsept| noun
                  an abstract idea; a general notion: Dictionary

                  How did I misuse it?

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    OOOF = Concept. wink

          2. Aime F profile image83
            Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You might want to pick a name other than God for your Real Life Spirit Thing, since God is pretty much reserved for that imagined commanding deity. It's a tad confusing.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I agree. Thats why I often call it Mighty Triple O!  Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient Force of the Universe.

              1. Aime F profile image83
                Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                OOOF

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  L O L !  Well, He doesn't mind. He is personal, He is impersonal, He is close, He is far. It is a mystery and cannot be understood intellectually. But, it is fun to try…
                  Thanks for joining us, Aime from Canada. smile

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    It is logical to follow The Ten Commandments for the individual. It protects his own happiness to follow them. (…they also help to alleviate the need for any sort of fear. big_smile)
    Yes or No?

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No. They are mostly not applicable to me and do not affect my happiness.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yet, you do follow the ones past #4 out of your own sense of decency and rightness and common sense… one would assume.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So - we have now discarded four of the ten as not being applicable.

          Exactly how do the other six make me happy? And no - I have broken some of them on occasion. Wouldn't you when the need arose? Would you not steal to feed your children if you had to?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, without the first four, the next six are hard to follow.
            Without faith in God, one would steal to feed their children.
            If one had faith in God, one would not stoop to such desperation.
            One would keep his morals and offer to work doing anything.
            This would maintain one's pride, dignity and self confidence.
            ... not to mention one's peace and joy of life. What would the children think? It would certainly teach them to steal.. and a whole downward spiral would thereby ensue.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So - you would let your children starve to death rather than steal if you had no other choice? Wow!

              But -look at your reply - just another religionist claiming that belief in god makes one a more moral person than non believers.

              This is why your beliefs cause conflict. wink

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I would have a choice. God gives us a choice. For Gosh Sakes!
                By looking within one's soul, there are always choices. You cannot just do what you need to do without considering the consequences to someone else. That is not love. You are breaking the code of love and respect for another's property. You are justifying something which if others witness, might copy and start a terrific trend of stealing for the sake of their children! It could become a massive widespread problem!!!
                This is actually what you are advocating.
                … and I am the one causing conflicts?

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Letting your children starve is love? Not really interested in listening to you preach any more dogma at me. I find it causes nothing but conflict. sad

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, I see, Righteous Atheist. Let us steal to feed our children.
                    Let us love our children more than anyone else in the world. Now you are advocating egotism. Great.
                    Those will be some special children, all right. lol

            2. Aime F profile image83
              Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I would say that letting my kid starve to death in the name of God would be far more egotistical and selfish than stealing the bare necessities to keep her alive until I found a better solution. My morals don't centre around pride, dignity, and self-confidence. My morals centre around what's doing best for human beings - you know, the ones who are actually inarguably here, and real, and don't need made up acronyms. Say I stole $20 worth of food from a different supermarket every week until I found a job. Is that $20 loss from a chain store really not worth saving a human life? I would obviously rather not steal, and under thousands of circumstances I would not, but when it comes to saving a life... that's a no-brainer for me.

              This reminds of the Heinz dilemma, have you heard of it? If not, here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_dilemma

              I'd be interested to see what your response would be. You can probably guess what mine would be as I've used the same reasoning in the situation above.

              Edit: I also wanted to add that I wouldn't steal anything if it were only me that were starving to death. It's when a child who depends on me and needs me to make that decision to save her life that I would take the extra step.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Commandments are not suggestions. Boundaries are in place for our own good. One must follow them. Of course, this is easier said than done. However, I would not steal the medicine. End of story. Would my wife die? Yes, But God would bring her to heaven. If I stole the medicine, she would know it and be ashamed and feel selfish. It would be a bad example to all. My wife would be the type to want to set a good example to all around her.
                God would take care of the druggist's Bad Karma. Shame on the druggist!

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Would I take/steal medicine to save a life. You are darn right I would. I'd then pay them back, but life is precious and people would understand. You're just guessing that God exists, if your wrong you just let someone die, if you are right you just killed someone and broke a commandment.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    If I was your wife, I would rather you let me die. What good is a life if it stands for nothing much.

  11. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    To refresh the Original Post:

    It is logical to follow The Ten Commandments for the sake of individual happiness and for the harmony of humanity as a whole.

    Yes or No?

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That is not what you asked. Dear me. sad

    2. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No.

      The first 4 are specific to the christian god, meaning they have no impact on people of no faith or other faiths. The next 6 are mostly pretty common throughout the world. I cant imagine someone on the opposite side of the planet who has never heard of any kind of religion would automatically want to disrespect their parents at every turn (unless they are absolutely not worthy of respect at all), murder people, steal a bunch of crap, cheat on their spouse willy nilly, or lie about their neighbors in a court of law. As far as covet goes, you would have to talk to a highly egotistical person about that one.

      There is also the fact that those commandments are incredibly vague. I shouldnt murder? So does that mean I can go out and beat the crap out of as many people as I want provided I dont kill them? I shouldnt steal? I guess I will just take it and return it someday before I die. As long as it gets returned, it isnt stealing right? Dont bear false witness? Doesnt mean I have to tell the whole truth. The truth can be just as damaging as a lie if not told properly.

      Example: "Was John Smith in the house during the time of the murder?"
      "Yes he was"
      "Well clearly he is guilty".
      No one mentioned that John Smith was listening to loud music and getting drunk in the basement at the time. No one lied, but now John Smith is the prime suspect.

      I wouldnt really want to interact much with someone who doesnt do any of those things because they fear divine retribution, rather than simply not wanting to be a jerk/psychopath. You shouldnt have to be told not to do those things. Somewhat related to that, I saw a video asserting that since Atheists do not follow the Quran (substitute it for the Bible if you wish) and as such lack morals, that they would have no problems drinking their dad's sperm since there is a lack of moral consequence.

      That is some pretty terrifying logic.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        So, lets throw them out.  Lets not consider the spirit of them. Lets forget we have judges and lawyers who specialize in the art of logic and reason. Lets just slip back into the dark ages of BCE, shall we?
        GOSH!
        Can't wait.
        I have a feeling I won't have to wait long.
        Note to self:
        Get out your spear…
        and your rock and your towel.. (right RA?)

        1. Link10103 profile image80
          Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Commandments - spiritual

          Judges and lawyers - reason and logic

          I am not sure what correlation you see between those.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Judges and lawyers specialize in the art of reason. Valid reasoning is based on love. Without God we do not know what love is or how it is to be applied. Its all spiritual.

            1. Link10103 profile image80
              Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You must not talk to a lot of people outside your circle of belief then.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You either.

                1. Link10103 profile image80
                  Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well heres the difference with my statement versus yours (aside from the fact that I talk to plenty of people on here that have the complete opposite views of my own), until you prove otherwise.

                  There are plenty of people that were raised in atheistic homes. Are you saying those homes lacked love? Because if so, that is quite the statement to make, which would also enforce my own that you do not talk to many people outside your circle of belief. Before god was even a widely held concept, people were still raised with love and care. Do animals have any concept of your particular god? I am sure a mama bear will eat me alive if I went anywhere near her cub. Is it because god gave them the knowledge of love, or because they instinctively (meaning no outside force) know that they should love and care for their cub?

                  EDIT: Also, are you willing to identify the correlation between children being raised in dismal environments and atheism? Dont know if you didnt see my comment or you just outright ignored it.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Humans can go wrong very easily since they do not have the instincs that say a bear does.

  12. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    Interesting. Thanks for answering. I must say, I don't think you're as different from "typical theists" as you seem to think you are. That's not meant as a slight, just the more you say here the more it seems like your views don't differ that much from what you'd expect to see in most believers.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not seeing any appreciable difference myself. Obey what the bible says unless it says women are not to preach. Many religionists try and disguise what they are. All it takes is the right situation and there they are, forcing dogma down your throat for your own good. sad

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thats why believers, no matter what their (legitimate) religion, are mostly on the right track.
      There is truth and truth is revealed through God's prophets and avatars.
      As I Understand.

      1. Aime F profile image83
        Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I actually don't think religion has anything to do with how good/moral someone is. If someone needs a set of rules to live by in order to avoid burning in hell then I would argue they're not on the right track at all.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No burning in hell. Burning in one's own consciousness/conscience or in the reaping of one's own bad karma.

          1. Aime F profile image83
            Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Okay, fine. Acting morally for the sake of not burning in hell, or getting bad karma, or consequences in general... I don't think that's a good thing. That sort of stuff should be instrinsically motivated.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Fear of consequences is good motivation. Avoiding suffering is natural.

              What is an example of intrinsic motivation?

              We can so easily hurt others without meaning to.. We think it will do no harm to pretend, to manipulate, to steal, to lie, to commit adultry...

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                For a god of love it doesn't seem so good...

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  ...for a God of love, He just wants us to live lives of creativity, joy and abundance. Not lives of selfishness and greed; Of no boundaries; Of too much freedom; Of sneaking, hiding and killing. For a God of love to instruct us how to have life and avoid death of not only body, but of spirit... its pretty good.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    If you say so.  It would seem, though, that if He truly loved us he would "fix" the problem without invoking eternal fire as a motivation, that's all.

              2. Aime F profile image83
                Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Instrinsic motivation = being driven by something because you value it on a personal level. No promise of rewards or consequences, just doing/believing in something because it's important to YOU.

                So, let's go with "thou shall not commit adultery". Intrinsically Motivated Guy doesn't cheat on his wife because he values their marriage. Extrinsically Motivated Guy doesn't cheat on his wife because he's afraid of going to hell or doesn't want to deal with a guilty conscience. I can tell you which guy I'd rather be married to, and based on motivation research, I can tell you which one is in all likelihood going to cheat first.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Fear of consequences is not bad. Why are you insisting on intrinsic motivation as being superior? If we were angels we would all be in heaven. It is just part of the human condition. We could all aim for intrinsic motivation and base all our actions on love, but as we know ... that is the ideal and not the reality for most.

                  I might not steal something only because I dread going to jail!  But I agree, if I dread stealing from someone and causing his loss that would be a more enlightened reason.
                  Not all are there.

                  1. Aime F profile image83
                    Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    When it comes to something like morality, I think intrinsic motivation is completely, 100000% superior.

                    Sure, extrinsic motivation works pretty well for students who study because they don't want to fail a test. But when it comes to how you live your life and how you treat others, referring to external fear or reward as a motivator doesn't exactly strike me as being ideal.

                    But that's just me. smile

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    One way to have a good life is to follow Karma Yoga. This is basically what Jesus taught. It is the path of regaining our spiritual selves by behaving rightly and not causing violence or harm to others. Who benefits the most? We do!

  14. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Bhagavad Gita
    Krisna to Arjuna:

    "I am the self, Arjuna
    seated in the heart of all beings
    I am the beginning and the life span
    of beings and their end as well.

    Of the sky gods, I am Vishnu
    of the heavenly lights, the sun
    Marichi, chief of the wind gods,
    among the stars I am the moon.

    of the Vedas I am the hymns
    Indra among the gods;
    the mind among the six senses:
    the consciousness of all beings."
    Etc.

    Krishna, like Jesus, is an avatar of God.

    Just sharing.

  15. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Wilderness,
    In other words, according to what you wrote:
    God does not accept us as we are.
    God punishes us for being as we are
    God chooses to do nothing to help us become better than we are.
    God expects us to love him for WHAT?


    It would indeed be better if God could accept us as we are, not punish us, but instead help us and not expect us to worship him unless we are motivated to do such a thing.

    I think God himself would agree with You, wilderness.

    But, I believe God does accept us! What father does not love his children? Furthermore, I do not believe He punishes us, but lets us learn from the school of hard knocks and the reaping of our Karma. In so doing He gives the gift of self guided free-will.

        I believe He set forth the commandments as a guideline to follow to help us avoid making mistakes in living our lives. Our choices alone create happiness or unhappiness for ourselves and others.

    To me, He has given us so much as far as these bodies, our lives, the beautiful things in nature, the world and the universe, that we should be "as happy as kings." Our thankfulness and awe of His magnificence could motivate our devotion and could motivate our willingness to embrace the Spirit of all that exists and surrender our ego in favor of His love and power. What do we get through willing surrender/devotion?
    True Joy of Life and ultimately, Freedom.

    The Way I See It.
    Pardon My Craziness

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thank goodness the sort of love you are pushing is becoming less prevalent as your religion dies out.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Uh, I don't think its even started yet. But it will… probably not in your lifetime, so you have nothing to worry about. Enjoy your up and coming atheist movement.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I will thanks. Who knows - might even get some right wing religionists thinking for a change. wink

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I'll be watching this reality show, for sure!

  16. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    For instance here are the Boy Scout oaths, etc.:
    from:
    http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsoathlaw.asp

    Boy Scout Oath or Promise

    On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

    Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises. Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses. The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:

    Duty to God and country,
    Duty to other people, and
    Duty to self
    DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your family and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.

    Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.

    DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're needed, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.

    DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength. Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.

    Boy Scout Law

    A Scout is:

    Trustworthy,
    Loyal,
    Helpful,
    Friendly,
    Courteous,
    Kind,
    Obedient,
    Cheerful,
    Thrifty,
    Brave,
    Clean,
    and Reverent.
    Boy Scout Motto

    Be Prepared!

    Boy Scout Slogan

    Do a Good Turn Daily!

    The Outdoor Code

    As an American, I will do my best to -

    Be clean in my outdoor manners
    Be careful with fire
    Be considerate in the outdoors, and
    Be conservation minded.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And don't forget to ban gays and atheists from joining. wink

      1. jlpark profile image91
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And girls

        Funny story though....I was all three of the G's that Scouts don't permit - Godless, Girl and Gay....except I was a Scout...20yrs ago.

        New Zealand's just a little more progressive than most, I guess. (To be honest, I'd not quite figured out why I preferred boys to be friends rather than 'going steady'...until a little while later...but hey)

    2. jlpark profile image91
      jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting you should quote the Boy Scouts....one of the most judgemental, and exclusionary groups for children made in the name of God.

      You know they only allowed gay scouts this year....under pressure from the public.
      Gay leaders....nope.
      Girls???? NOPE.
      Atheists? NOPE.

      If you are one of the Three Gs you aren't allowed in - Gay, Girl or Godless.

      Though, I do have to say....in New Zealand 20yrs ago.....I was actually ALL THREE, and a scout. (I just hadn't worked out why I didn't like boys like the rest of my friends....that was a year or three later).

      So, morally, where do you stand on exclusion of CHILDREN who may have been deemed as gay? You okay with children being segregated from their friends, and other boys, because someone is uncomfortable with the notion of someone's God given sexuality??
      Or the exclusion of Girls - whats wrong with a female being able to look after herself in the bush? What if she gets lost on a bush walk...is she to just sit and wait for a big burly bloke to come rescue her?

      But hey - other than the Duty to God - I have always lived by the other laws of Scouting - before I was a scout as well as after.....but, I'm not religious in the slightest. So....what is your point?

      1. jlpark profile image91
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Ahhhh I see - you didn't have one.

        Just because you believe and that fact makes you feel as though no one could be as moral as you doesn't make it true. We are moral with God...which if you really want to look at it could be considered a more pure form- no one is telling us we have to be - we just are. But we don't view our morality as better or worse than any other.

        It's only you doing that

        You don't want to listen unless someone is backing up yr story. Increasing yr knowledge of all things would be more helpful to you than preaching.

        But hey - I'm out - I've better things to do than argue....like helping people (without God telling me too - imagine that)

  17. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    God is an actual reality whether you want to acknowledge Him or not.
    You can choose to be ignorant of God if you so choose. I am not advocating ignorance because there are definite advantages to knowing God.
    Thats all.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You are an example of some one who knows god? I will pass thanks. wink

    2. Jomine Jose profile image81
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What is the advantage of having a delusion or hallucination?
      Drugs can help in getting the same, is that advantageous?

  18. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Anti-Godists, have a great day. Your bombs are getting to me.

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I dont recall stating or even implying that I was anti god, but nice of you to assume things.

    2. jlpark profile image91
      jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not Anti-God either...I just don't believe in your interpretation, or anyone elses, of God or Gods.  Doesn't mean I'm anti them.

      What I am Anti - is people pushing their beliefs on others, particularly to the extent where they seek to deny me or mine the same rights they enjoy.  Atheists have never tried to deny anyone anything other than the ability to force their religion on another, which no one has a right to do to anyone.

      Pushing your belief as the only truth and anyone who doesn't believe as you do as "immoral" is one such example of the things I am anti.

      I in fact love learning about religion...all of them. So much for ANTI God/s.

      But to quote someone in the internet:
      Religion is like a p***s....it's fine to have one, it fine to be proud of it, but if you start whipping it out in public and shoving it down my or my children's throats we have a problem.

  19. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Thanks for your posts Michael. I would not have kept it up if not for you.
    BFN

    1. Michael-Milec profile image60
      Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      This conversation is messed-up: the comments befall oddly not to right spot; My confirmation to a "good" answer meant to be to  Aime F..." this  started out as an okay conversation..." Now this " Thanks  for your posts Michael. I would not  have  kept up if not for you. BFN. ( Exempt me please, from any further conspiracy.)

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, sorry MM.
        I meant you are the one God believer in our midst and it has been inspiring to hear from you. Sorry if not mutual.
        KLH

        1. Michael-Milec profile image60
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          it does relate to that part which isn't clearly stated , like BFN and such...

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That is: Bye For Now!
            what is: "and such?"
            - what is "conspiracy" you mention?
            Are you really bothered because I cannot accept that name?
            Did you not appreciate my post quoting Krishna? (If so, I understand.)



            Just Wondering

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              NRJCCAARD. ;')

            2. Michael-Milec profile image60
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              We are dealing here with a living Master of the Universe - the Creator if you wish, -tragically enough called "God" for lack of  human words  to contain His greatness and uniqueness in His power  and will to  keep up with the original intention of having His man on the planet  Earth according to His  design. The Ten  Commandments in first place  aren't subjected  to any reduction by con discussion .  Their powerful conviction is sufficient enough to hunt those who want to live life contrary to its moral  requirements. Those living in the USA if having open eyes have  an opportunity to see opposition to it leading to "Higher freedom " beheading those who confess their  loyalty to the ordinary  common sense... As to answering your  question of appreciation   your post  quoting  Krishna , it is mainly between you and your  god what you would like to live by or teach the others. For me is sufficient to stick by the One who said I am the way and the truth and the life... and  by the way my personal faith  isn't put up for anyones speculation or discussion, unless having the same experience living it.
              Thanks  for BFN explanation, which is right  way of communication not leaving  others in limbo. In other language "BFN" might mean a horrible thing as well as  many others indicative  messages left without proper spelling.
              Good night now, have a productive week, tomorrow is a working day  again...

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Krishna talks about the way and the truth and the light/life too.
                In fact he teaches how to FIGHT for it within your mind/consciousness.

                1. Michael-Milec profile image60
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Have  Krishna died  for your sins  to redeemed you back to the Father ? Jesus did for me, He rose from the dead for my  justification. Did Krishna or any other god, or prophet or any kind of "good " teacher?! Only if the people would dare to keep the Word of the incarnate Creator of the Universe, - seriously, unwaveringly, we would  show the world the SAME  results of the Kingdom of God as He did while   walking the land of this of our. 
                  To fight for  what ? Once " I " am submitted to God- occupied by the presence of the Spirit of the Most High ( You don't like this Name, why ?)- I do not  need teaching  " how " to fight, I am strong enough to resist the evil, once "I " " am the light of the world why to "FIGHT' for it ?  I have no idea what you are  telling me...

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I believe there are other avenues of Truth. Krishna and Christ bring the same salvation and deliverance from satanic delusion and redemption into the kingdom of heaven. My advice: Forget the words. Meditate and sense the purity of the consciousness of God.

                    According to my understanding, there is a fight involved. It is one of focus and determination. It is one of body, heart, mind and soul willingness to perceive true self as opposed to false self.

                    You have found your path, MM and I respect it.

                    Just sharing another avenue. I know you disagree.
                    Thats fine.

                    Peace.

                  2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Now you know what your gibberish sounds like.lol lol

  20. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    Not believing in God doesn't make one "anti-God". I don't believe in Santa but I'm definitely not anti-Santa (in fact I absolutely adore the idea of a sweet old chubby man jumping down my chimney even though I know it's not real).

    I am anti-false claims with no evidence other than "because I said so." You can base your opinions on anything you'd like, but make sure you present them as opinions and not fact. It's irritating and it doesn't make for good conversation.

    1. Aime F profile image83
      Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That Santa thing sounded a little bit dirty, didn't it? lol

      1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I liked it. big_smile

      2. jlpark profile image91
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It did...but hey!

      3. Link10103 profile image80
        Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I feel less guilty about having a dirty mind now since you brought it up.

        Just throw in the word presents somewhere and I think it fixes itself...

        1. Aime F profile image83
          Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          "I adore the idea of a sweet old chubby man jumping down my chimney, presents and all."

          1. Link10103 profile image80
            Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Welp, I think I am a lost cause. That didn't sound any better to me sad

            1. Aime F profile image83
              Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It wasn't supposed to. wink

            2. Jomine Jose profile image81
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              But I think it's better than the story where a god get his son murdered to stop himself from frying some souls he created specifically for that purpose.

 
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