jump to last post 1-15 of 15 discussions (179 posts)

Ignorance isTemporary:

  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    It seems, the word "God" really represents an unknown to most, whether theist, atheist or other.


    I believe it our destiny to KNOW God,
    either in this lifetime or another,
    or maybe a couple of lifetimes after that...


    Question for those who have an answer:

                                                    HOW?

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Weird that you insist it exists even though you cannot define it then. sad

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        ...this was meant to be a short thread. Go away.
        (- just kidding. You know you inspired this topic.)

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I must admit to being fascinated with people who insist "God" is real yet are unable to define what they mean by the word.

          I often say to them - you define it, I will disprove it. wink

          1. hack writer profile image81
            hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Why?

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The phenomenon is interesting. Amongst many other human characteristics. Aren't you interested also? Don't you want to understand how your subconscious could alert you to potential danger? And why it doesn't always work?

              1. hack writer profile image81
                hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Sure, I do.

                But I was asking why you are trying to prove and convince others that there is nothing other than you, your mind and subconscious. That there is nothing bigger than humans.

                Let's just not call it anything / let's call it something (since you seem to be hung up with labels, definitions, names and such.)

                I'd say if there is something beyond, why not connect and see where it takes you?
                If there is something beyond and you constantly spit in its face you might see where that takes you.

                If there is nothing beyond, you will just stay where you are, no harm done.

                1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Bigger physically or intellectually?  There is nothing intellectually bigger than humans.

                  There is nothing to call

                  Hallucinating can indeed connect, but that is not reality, is it?

                  There is a harm, your life is wasted. Why disguise Pascal's wager?

                  1. hack writer profile image81
                    hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    There is nothing intellectually bigger than humans?
                    Reality has to be tangible?

                    I'm not sure.

                2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not hung up on anything. I have connected to many things bigger than myself and been many interesting places. Please stop putting words in my mouth. You asked me no such thing.

                  What is this beyond of which you speak? Show me how I "spit in it's face" You seem very hung up on that - why?

                  1. hack writer profile image81
                    hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I am sorry if I have upset you.

                    "I often say to them - you define it, I will disprove it." were your words.

                    I was just wondering why you are so determined to not let others believe whatever they want to believe?

              2. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Actually it's rarely right when it comes to things it has no experience with. Intuition tells him/her to turn on his car lights at night, because he has experience driving at night. But when it comes to the afterlife some use intuition and get the wrong answer because they have no experience with the afterlife.

          2. Michael-Milec profile image61
            Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The God, in other language under different names - regardless - the Supreme being Creator and sustainer of the Universe as well me and you doesn't depend on anyone approval or disapproval. Without experiencing Him and enjoying Hi love, some might be trying hard to argue their view point,

            1. Jomine Jose profile image79
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Such bold assumptions without any factual basis is called a lie.

              1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                might be a lie for you, not for all

                1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It's only a belief, a belief that the charlatans who wrote such things are right but it is made of two untenable claims which has no factual basis.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    See, we - everyone  speak only what one knows. You do not know what I do know , you do not have my experiences, and you have great pleasure to put me down. So what ?

            2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              God's existence does not depend on belief, either. He exists whether we believe in Him or not.

              1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly, but he doesn't fulfill the criteria for "exist" either.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  God does not exist.
                  If he existed, He would……?

                  1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                    Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Fullfill the criteria to exist,  will have physical presence and shape.

            3. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well - I simply don't believe your claims.
              I said "disprove" not "approve". But to an extent you are right. whether we believe in it or not it simply doesn't exist. All the time the only "evidence" is claims from people such as yourself, I will stick with that viewpoint. wink

      2. hack writer profile image81
        hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Years ago I saw someone who hadn't turned on his lights at night getting on the freeway . My ex was frantically signaling trying to get his attention saying this was a life threatening situation.

        The other night I was getting ready myself to get on the freeway without lights at dusk.

        This is when I remembered what had happened 25+ years ago. What made me remember?

        Ever had a weird incident like that? Can we define it? No. Why would we need to? Just acknowledging it should do. Just being grateful that it is. Just let it be.

        Me personally, I don't want it to go away. I had my girl in the car.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Your subconscious. Clever thing the human mind. With a strong self-preservation instinct. Oh wait  - you didn't want me to define it. big_smile

          1. hack writer profile image81
            hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You can give it any name you want. That's fine with me.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't give it a name. I explained what happened.

              1. hack writer profile image81
                hack writerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I like your name. Very appropriate.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Superstition.

    2. kess profile image60
      kessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      By preserving their integrity usually at the cost of material gain and the praise of men.
      This is the test of Love, for he see all as himself.
      Then God will shine forth as water flows from a spring.

      1. Jomine Jose profile image79
        Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Testing is integrity
        material is flowering
        then water will be spiritual.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Thank You Very Much, Kess. I totally overlooked your response.  "He sees all as himself. (!)

        How do we preserve our integrity?
        How do we recognize the devil?

        We need to know how to fight off the devil to preserve our integrity, I would say.

        Oh, here it is right here!!!

        "usually at the cost of material gain and the praise of men."

        Thanks, again!
        What a great answer you have provided!

    3. EncephaloiDead profile image61
      EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      But, that's exactly what keeps people ignorant. The way out of ignorance is understanding. Simple really.

    4. Michael-Milec profile image61
      Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Definitely, it is only a " word" God in many other languages under different name; interestingly on His first recorded " name " introduction , He has sai I AM THAT I AM, Heb. Eheyeh asher Eheyeh, I am that ( who or what ) I am , or I am the Selfexistent One; the Eternal; , the One who always has been  and always will be, ever - present and Loving One... Often He has answer in meeting people's need " I Am the one who heals you; provide for you , etc.

      1. Jomine Jose profile image79
        Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Again factually incorrect.
        The bible is fiction written by charlatans.

        1. Michael-Milec profile image61
          Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          might be for you , not for everybody

          1. Jomine Jose profile image79
            Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The false claim is same for everyone,  only you pretend it to be otherwise.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image61
              Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jomine Jose, You do not know me, you do not know my victories  and failures in walk with God: He is in my  spirit , talks to me, gives me strength and wisdom , the people around me  se and know. Why should I lie to you ? Give me one reason why? And  frankly I am so busy with smart thinks that I do not have  time to lie.

              1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So god is only your opinion? Why should I want to know you, I am talking about the arguments you made.
                I am talking about this,
                1) the Supreme being Creator and sustainer of the Universe
                2) His first recorded " name " introduction.
                The first is a lie, as the assumptions are false.
                The second is a lie because bible is not the first recorded book about god.

                1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                  Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  A statement made by me isn't an argument to those who  choose to know ; as for you it is your option to  continue in a false assumption and in a lie you want to accept about the book about the God. Unless the Holy Spirit revels to you the light, you will continue the  direction you are on. Do not expect me to waste time to continue  in what others can tell you better  and you know that.
                  On the other hand if you insist on superiority and wants to be proclaimed as a winner in this contest, have it  your way.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh no… I am the winner, always. cool (ignorance and all… its temporary, anyway…)
                    KLH

                  2. Jomine Jose profile image79
                    Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So you have no factual basis for your argument. Such fallacious arguments are called lies in common language and or false assumption. I didn't make any assumptions you did. (Saying I did will be a lie)

                    Again no factual basis, so can be called a lie. I know Christians in general (the preaching ones) are dishonest and some are better liars but I am not going to take a lie and face value.

                    You mean you were not claiming superiority by claiming divine knowledge for yourself?

  2. hack writer profile image81
    hack writerposted 2 years ago

    I am very reluctant to reply because I do not know the answer.

    I think only those shortlisted will be filled in. Not up to us to demand or search an answer before the time is right, I would think.

    But I do believe that there is a certain path and that being mindful of the road markers will take you there.

    I know for me personally, it is the practice of patience.

    Hope to see you there.

    Best of luck.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "But I do believe that there is a certain path and that being mindful of the road markers will take you there."


      To me, this statement is beautifully poetic and true.

      Thank You, hack writer.
      ( ...really, what else can be said?)

      1. Michael-Milec profile image61
        Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Authentication is in the word you used here. " believing " ; once you start  on believing plan, the experiences are proof and multiplying ; how can anyone who never been in my kitchen, never ate my prepared meal to malevolently insists that doesn't exist ?!

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          HOW is God to be known?

          1. conradofontanilla profile image72
            conradofontanillaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            How is god to be known?
            First identify what is to be known. Then assert that it exists. Bertrand Russell has a way to do it. Come up with a definite description instead of a definition of a deductive kind. The main reason is that you can invent anything by way of deductive definition. A definition is one thing, existence of what is defined is another. "The king of France" is one example given by Russell as a definite description. This fits one king or another like King Louis XIV. This description can be verified. Now, existence is asserted on a definite description. Not on a name or label because analysis of a name or label would end in a contradiction, Russell said.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well, we have a very good start thanks to conradofontanilla. Obviously, God can be described as an invisible force which is in evidence in all of creation. Creation identifies God.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If it is invisible, how is it in evidence exactly? lol

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The visible is evidence of the invisible,
                  obviously. cool

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry - my mistake. I keep thinking yo are interested in a conversation. Reminder to self - just another religionist wanting to preach the same nonsense at me. sad

          2. Michael-Milec profile image61
            Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Cicero said " You do not see God, and yet you acknowledge him as God by his works." Do you Kathryn L Hill ? Everyone in the world by now knows  that " For ever  since the creation of the world God has shown to every generation His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity have been intelligible and clear  discernible in and through the things that have been made  - His handiworks. Excuses are by  some  choosing not to Honor and glorify Him as God  or give Him thanks. But instead the are becoming futile godless i their thinking- with vain imaginations, foolish reasoning and stupid speculations- where the senseless minds are  darkened . ( Book of Romans ).
            So , knowing God is simply and easy for those who are willing... As to HOW? - really HOW , my dear go to the Holy Spirit of God and ask Him He has an answer for you.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thank You, my dear Sir.

              "For ever since the creation of the world, God has shown to every generation His invisible nature and attributes.

              That is, His eternal power and divinity have been intelligible and clear, discernible in and through the things that have been made - His handiworks.

              Naysayers do not acknowlege this.

              Not everyone in the world knows this. Saying so shows condescension.

              Sorry for existing. (You can blame God for that.)

              *---> Update to discussion/research project:
              Consciousness is evidence of God,

              Do you not agree, MM?

              1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No further comment to the " update "; I do not see meaning to be  part of stretching " knowledge ' of God after  we have abundant life in Jesus, and commandment to stay Holy as God is holy, to remain in Him and His word in us , to live to the glory of the Father " bearing much fruit " - to prove that " we" are His disciple.  ( As He is Vine and "we" are the branches, the same fruit of  his we are bearing or we would only discuss, discuss, discuss ...) ( Most of the " christians " aren't aware of what fruit of the VINE is like.) Thank you very much.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You do not see the benefit of increasing one's knowledge of God.
                  Okay, thanks anyway.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    How interestingly an observation can be misleading : There is only One  who knows what " I "   "" can see"" or can not see "the benefit of increasing one's knowledge of God." My walk with God is main source of increasing  " knowledge of God" as true Holy Spirit leads me: Listening and recognizing His voice  and not  by the  following someone else's literature  recognizable contrary to the  revealed will of God; it is not for " me " only specially design, it is in the Word for every child of His and since it is working for those who believe , that is I am referring to . Knowing God, my dear comes trough  knowing  the Son of God who has come and has given us understanding so that we know  the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life."(1 John 5:20)GW Transl. While any additional theorizing taste to reasonings, this  same Jesus  left for the true believers a test proof "I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater  deeds than these, because I am going to the Father."(John 14:123) NET Bible. Time and time again this is proven fact even as we speak. For me that is more than enough for I am accountable to Him for every my thought, my word and my deed: He has extended the life-span of my in this body for a purpose.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Repeating:  to Know God, Identify God:
    God can be described as an invisible force which is in evidence in all of creation. Creation identifies God.
    Therefore, each one of us is evidence of God.
    It stands to reason, to know the reality of *ourselves* is to know God.

    What is the "reality?"

    Consciousness, I would say...

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Shouldn't we start with what we know and see if it lines up with your description of God?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        What do we know?
        BTW Our ability to *know* anything at all is evidence of God.
        Therefore, we are evidence of God.
        To know our own consciousness is to know God.
        Thats HOW we know God.

        TWISI
        Take it or leave it.
        -  just sharing what makes sense to ME.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Look, if you want to have a discussion you need to stop with the nonsense.

          We know plenty about the universe. We know how old it is, we know how old the earth is, we know that the information from the bible is in direct conflict with that information, which tells us that that particular versions of God, Jewish, Christian, Mormon, and Muslim version doesn't exist as described. Is there evidence for another? Does prayer to any of these versions work?

          Edit, because of your edit:
          If that's making sense to you you may want to learn a little about logic.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I requested contributions regarding the question of HOW to know God! Two people have come on board with valid input:  hack writer and conradofontanilla.
            Thats all.
            Thanks anyway.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              - also Kess and Michael-Melic: that makes four.

              I am also thankful for those with nothing to contribute. You help us, who want to know, work harder…to know.
              I hope thats okay!?

              1. Michael-Milec profile image61
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                With the privilege goes responsibility: my Jesus said freely you receive , freely give, on top of it He has given a commandment His disciples-followers,believers- those who accepted the invitation to become the children of the heavenly Father, and  the commandment is " Go , then, make disciple of all the nations, dipping-dipizeing - baptizing them  in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit And teaching them to observe all I have commanded you...." ; "All" means " all" a little given to me is  just obediently and reverently doing my part. ( You might be well familiar with the word of  Ezek. 3: 17-21, quite  extremely serious) . However we are reminded by the Sovereign Lord,  (humbly reporting)- " those who manifest wisdom will shine like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who turn many to righteousness will shine like the stars for ever and ever." Some of these scriptures are behind the supporting my faith to take any risk to stay isolated from the  world / religious crowd and happily serving the Master.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Where does "wisdom" originate? How do we tap into it?

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Wisdom comes from reason.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    1 Corinthians 15:44
    "There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body."
    After research, the rest of 1 C (15:44-58) is amazing to me!

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    559th Thing Every One Should Know About Science: How a material responds to electrical forces depends on how its atoms are arranged. When atoms are locked together to form solids, liquids or gases, the way the electrons are arranged depends on the details of the forces between the atoms. In particular they determine whether the electrons are able to move around the material in response to external electrical forces, hence whether electrical current can move through the material.
    1001 Things Everyone Should Know About Science
    Pg.163.

    1. Jomine Jose profile image79
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Good for a laymen who only need a superficial understanding. Most of these concepts are used to teach someone who doesn't know. But this cut and past won't do you any good.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am copying it from the book in front of me. No "pasting" at all.
        Because science reveals the tools/processes of God,
        obviously. cool

        1. Jomine Jose profile image79
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          lol
          Just like the tail of a rat reveal the comet bundoster.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    560th: "A conductor is a material through which electrical current can flow. In order to be a conductor, a material must contain free electrical charges. There are many kinds of conductors, and they differ in the type of free charges available and in how they are created." Page 163

    1. Jomine Jose profile image79
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You didn't understand this either, did you?
      But what is this doing in a religious forum?

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      565th: Every material is a conductor when the voltage is high enough since a high enough voltage can always tear electrons loose from atoms. For example, air is normally considered to be an insulator. However, when a large electrical current accumulates on a thunder cloud, the atoms of air in the region are torn apart, turning the air into a plasma. This is how a lightening bolt is created.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    We can get a little more complicated if you wish: For instance, Max Planck showed that a bit of matter could be represented by endless amounts of particles bobbing up and down according to frequencies of oscillation. The oscillators absorbed heat and light energy. They also allowed the energy to swing and subside.  The arcs of the oscillators swept through ever wider arcs allowing them to absorb and hold energy.  Translated from the Book:
    The Strange Story of the Quantum, by Banesh Hoffmann. (pg. 20.)

    1. Jomine Jose profile image79
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Try a dictionary first.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Been there, done that.

        Q. What do you call someone who converses with little greenish men who live under bridges?

        1. Jomine Jose profile image79
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Then it's difficult, ignorance will remain permanent contrary to what your OP says.
          If a dictionary could not help you understand the meaning of words nothing can. And for someone who doesn't understand the meaning of words, god is the natural answer for that term is meaningless.

        2. Jomine Jose profile image79
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Christian.

        3. EncephaloiDead profile image61
          EncephaloiDeadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          An Evangelist?

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    A Troll Whisperer.

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    - logic and truth are based on… Reality.

    This is reality: ?

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      There is nothing tricky about the word "truth".

      Logic and truth are based on thought and reason.

      "the good of the many out weigh the good of the few"

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "Thought and reason" depend on logic AND emotion
        and balancing them (logic and emotion)
        is pretty tricky…

        - wouldn't you agree?

        1. conradofontanilla profile image72
          conradofontanillaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Circular reasoning should be avoided. Here, the premise supports the proposition and the proposition supports the premise. Let us take an example provided by Bo Bennett in "Circular Reasoning, Logically fallacious," (Internet Oct.25,2014):
          "The Bible is the Word of God because God tells us it is... in the Bible."

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I see what you are saying: circular reasoning = "reason depends on logic."  My point was this: reason actually depends on love. Which I disguised with the word emotion.


            I'm wondering:
            Is logic somehow dependent on or connected in some way with love?

            1. conradofontanilla profile image72
              conradofontanillaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Logic is not dependent on love. Logic is involved in tautology. For example, two is a class of couples. No emotion is involved in logic. In emotion the following can happen: A loves B. B loves C. A hates C. In logic it should be: A loves B. B loves C. A loves C.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "Tautology: (logic), a universal truth in formal logic." W

                I use the word love as"
                "a virtue representing human kindness, compassion, and affection—'the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another'. It may also describe compassionate and affectionate actions towards other humans, one's self or animal." Wikipedia

                Much of Plato and Aristotle's works had to do with virtue, or the question of what is good. For example the conclusion, justice consists in giving a man what he is owed, is found in The Republic by Plato.

                What is logic?
                "Logic is the study of the methods and principals used to distinguish correct from incorrect reasoning." Introduction to Logic by Irving M. Copi.

                Most correct reasoning is based on love (as mentioned above,) I would assume.

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    "the good of the many out weigh the good of the few"
    What is this??? define the word "weigh" here.

  11. Sed-me profile image82
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Surely this has been said already...
    The way to know God is thru the reading and meditation of His word, prayer, and worship.

    He speaks to us thru His word and His spirit.
    We speak to Him thru prayer and worship.

    It is perfect communication.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, but HOW?
      We have two avenues of knowledge. One is through words, thoughts / thinking.  The other is direct perception.
      Which would you say you use, Beth?  Or would you say the first leads to the second? 
      In what form does the "speaking" take place?
      audibly or inaudibly?
      are feelings involved?
      - how?
      If none of this is appropriate for intellectual discussion or is beyond putting into words then I understand and agree...

      1. Sed-me profile image82
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It's a communication of the spirit. We are more than flesh and bone.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And how does that communication between our souls and God's spirit take place, would you say?

          ... wouldn't it have to be through Extra Sensory Perception?
          as you may already know… I think this is so.

          1. Sed-me profile image82
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Ps 94:11
            The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.

            Ps 139
            1 Lord, you have examined me
                and know all about me.
            2 You know when I sit down and when I get up.
                You know my thoughts before I think them.
            3 You know where I go and where I lie down.
                You know everything I do.
            4 Lord, even before I say a word,
                you already know it.
            5 You are all around me—in front and in back—
                and have put your hand on me.
            6 Your knowledge is amazing to me;
                it is more than I can understand.

            7 Where can I go to get away from your Spirit?
                Where can I run from you?
            8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there.
                If I lie down in the grave, you are there.
            9 If I rise with the sun in the east
                and settle in the west beyond the sea,
            10 even there you would guide me.
                With your right hand you would hold me.

            11 I could say, “The darkness will hide me.
                Let the light around me turn into night.”
            12 But even the darkness is not dark to you.
                The night is as light as the day;
                darkness and light are the same to you.

            13 You made my whole being;
                you formed me in my mother’s body.
            14 I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way.
                What you have done is wonderful.
                I know this very well.
            15 You saw my bones being formed
                as I took shape in my mother’s body.
            When I was put together there,
            16 you saw my body as it was formed.
            All the days planned for me
                were written in your book
                before I was one day old.

            17 God, your thoughts are precious to me.
                They are so many!
            18 If I could count them,
                they would be more than all the grains of sand.
            When I wake up,
                I am still with you.

            19 God, I wish you would kill the wicked!
                Get away from me, you murderers!
            20 They say evil things about you.
                Your enemies use your name thoughtlessly.
            21 Lord, I hate those who hate you;
                I hate those who rise up against you.
            22 I feel only hate for them;
                they are my enemies.

            23 God, examine me and know my heart;
                test me and know my anxious thoughts.
            24 See if there is any bad thing in me.
                Lead me on the road to everlasting life.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The ability to know anything by God is based on some kind of DIRECT perception! If we know anything of God it must be by the same ability.
              Right?

              1. Sed-me profile image82
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Did you read it?
                It reveals everything! What thought can cross your mind that God does not know?
                So if you raise your voice up to Him, do you think He wont hear you?
                Whether it is the voice of your heart or your actual voice... He hears us when we call.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes.
                  - wouldn't you say direct perception must be involved in this type of spiritual communication?

                  How do we develop the ability to perceive God as He perceives us?

                  1. Sed-me profile image82
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Perception might affect our understanding... but that has to do with maturity and relationship. As we grow, things get clearer, though they will not be clear as glass til we're face to face. Selah!

                  2. Michael-Milec profile image61
                    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Throughout all Scripture we are told  that God is a real person, He can appear  visible  or invisible to natural eyes; He has a spirit body, a personal soul and a personable spirit. Jesus speaks of his Father ( (J.5:37); a psalmist of his Spirit (143:10); lives in the city (J.14:1-3) and he can do anything man can do...

          2. Michael-Milec profile image61
            Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            How to say  this and where to start ? - "God is a spirit - or a Spirit is God- and those who worship him - communicate - must worship in spirit  and truth." ( j.4:24) . The Truth  spoken of here  has ben revealed by the incarnate Him- in the body of Jesus of Nazareth, John 14; 6 "I am the way and  the TRUTH and the life..." We " a  man -   our ' spirit man' can really touch ands commune with the Spirit of spirits.. As is known "WE" ME, YOU ,- A PERSON IS SPIRIT SOUL AND LIVES IN  THE BODY .  Our soul and spirit lives in the body temporarily: The soul is invisible part that feels it  ,is a seat of affections, emotions passions and desires giving us self-consciousness... The spirit is invisible part of a living beings that knows - the seat of intellect, mind and will, and that  giving  self - determination thus making  a free moral agent  a rational being. NOW, the Bible teaches  that  it is a " regenerated " spirit of a person with God's Spirit within us which can and does communicate with God. The natural man -  spiritually dead to the Spirit of God due to the  distrusting God back in the Garden can- not communicate with God the Father, because doesn't belong yet to Him.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How do we give ourselves to God?   And what is the motivation?
              Is it through baptism?
              What is the usual motivation for getting baptized?
              Blind obedience?
              Fear?
              Willful obedience?
              Love of God?
              Other?

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Luke 1:50

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Fear is rewarded with God's mercy.
                  Well, thats sounds good… is it good enough?
                  Eventually fear gives way to confidence.. and the whole cycle of ignorance and arrogance starts over again. lol!

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You left out the part about multiple generations, but close enough.  Be afraid of Him and he will show mercy.  Love Him without fear (however that is managed with a god known for genocide!) and it's no mercy for you.

                    Not a creature I would choose to worship...

              2. Michael-Milec profile image61
                Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                In faith, by faith , through faith : "Without faith it is impossible to please him..."(Heb .11:6) as the broken true  and disbelief of the Creeator  has kicked us out of the Family fellowship in the Garden, now the faith, trust will put us back... Every sinner  need to come as he / she is  ( God already knows our intentions) - and speak to him as person-to person " Here i am... coming back...) Sincerely, earnestly to  say what " I want "... What do you want ? ( Jesus said if anyone  WANTS tot come after me let him denied himself. How much what part to denied? Everything what is not of His will and His word.
                Motivation is LOVE- not feelings or emotions, not religious  ceremonies, " I love yo and I want to serve you in all my words, deeds ...
                Fear is not of the God Father, it comes from the god of thuds world and he is shrewd enough to control masses by the religious manipulations...
                Baptism would not be my preference to put into this discussion...

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Somehow related question:

    What is the root of "faith?"

    Willful obedience, blind faith, or wisdom guided faith? or maybe wishful thinking? hopeful thinking? willful thinking?
    or maybe understanding based on logic ? on love ? … or both?

    1. Michael-Milec profile image61
      Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      My own definition: " Faith is putting your life into hands of God ".  "Faith changes  the word into deed in your life."  " Faith hears what God has to say ."
      The way to get faith is by hearing the Word of God: READ OUT LOUD for yourself  what God /Jesus says,- often you will hear what was there before and now it opens to you: you might stop after  the firs sentence and go to pondering on it all day long until it becomes part of your actions as a result knowing it and expressing love toward God ...

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Like.

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Logic deals with arguments.  Arguments are groups of propositions revealing grounds for truth. Premise and conclusion are used as propositions in arguments. A conclusion is indicated by words such as: "therefore,"  "thus,"  "consequently…" Premises are indicated by "since,"  "because," " for the reason that…"
    According to Irving M. Copi.

    To refresh, we are trying to find what wisdom is dependent on… Rad Man says on logic and thinking. I say on a sense of love or what is good for self and others.

    1. conradofontanilla profile image72
      conradofontanillaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Copi must have meant to give an introduction only. Premise is different from proposition depending on context. This topic involves a long discussion.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am trying to find out about wisdom. My premise is that it is based on more than reason alone.
        I do not know how to find a conclusion or what argument to make to prove what I merely suspect. I thought Michael-Melic would help me out, since it based on something he said:

        " those who manifest wisdom will shine like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who turn many to righteousness will shine like the stars for ever and ever."

        i just want to know HOW anyone can "manifest wisdom!" I don't think through reason alone!

        1. conradofontanilla profile image72
          conradofontanillaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I suggest you define "wisdom" as a concept not as a label or a word. In concept, a term is different from a word. You can find a definition of term, or how "term" is used in introduction to philosophy.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think wisdom is an inner knowing of the truth. It comes from the soul. I think it is the ability to discern illusion from reality, which by the way is objective and not subjective.

  14. Sed-me profile image82
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    This is an interview with Gracia Burnham. She was taken captive in the Philippians. She and her husband were held hostage for a year. They killed her husband and she has been returned home. Listen to her story of being ministered to by God. smile

    https://soundcloud.com/the-voice-of-the … ia-burnham

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Beth. I will. (Its been nice conversing with you without the usual uninvited sentinels.)

      1. Sed-me profile image82
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        For sure. smile

        Off to work... ugh.

  15. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    And what happened back in the garden ?

 
working