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Does God Exist?

  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    If a newton says " In absence of external force every body will remain in its original state" then how people says that there is no God?

    Friends! In my above question which I have asked to the disbeliever that if you believe that there is no God then how these biggest mechanisms of the world constantly happening around us are going on?

    Are these mechanism are controlled by some forces which are not yet discovered? Or our so called problem solving approach hasn't solved this question yet.

    Let us start with Newton first law of motion which states

    “Everything will remain at the state of rest or motion, in the absence of external force”

    Majority of the people consider Sir Isaac Newton as the father of physics as well as most intelligent person in history. This principle of motion is acting on every object of this universe from micro to macro objects. This statement of him clearly state that no object of this world can change its state. There is an external force involved on each object changing its state either physical or chemical.

    This principle is self explanatory about the importance of external force which means that if there is no external force no object in the world will move or change its state.

    If we consider this explanation as a universal truth it means that not a SINGLE LEAF ON EARTH WILL MOVE IN THE ABSENCE OF EXTERNAL FORCE

    Now, some questions I would like to ask to a disbeliever from this world in which you and I are living.

    The sun rises and sunset, Rain carried by the clouds and showers it on the world, Stages of moon, Blowing of winds……….etc.

    These and millions of questions like that to be answered by some on Which EXTERNAL FORCE IS BEHIND IT?????

    Answer of this question is if an external force is the prime agent responsible for the least to most massive processes of Earth.

    This prime agent which is directly influenced on the universe is no other than GOD (ALMIGHTY)

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      And you were told a number of times that even if there is an external force guiding everything, it does not mean it is god or a specific god at that.

      If you assert that it is gods doing, have fun proving it, because the laws of motion do not prove that claim at all. Thats like saying because roses exist, it must mean an external force of demonic gnomes put thorns on them so they hurt us.

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am not playing with these laws and one more thing roses exist and grows after passing through number of stages of development, without external force that is not possible they are changing their state. Thorns are grown during their development. If you pull them out you will be the external force, leading to change the state.

      2. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If I asked you how your house came about and I never seen it , then all logic would start with a contractor, land .blue prints, then builder, we would not say that house just built itself, you could get no one to agree with that, even though they never seen those responsible for the house existence , people build machinery all the time, it did not create itself , robots that can do what we do except but have children, yet we would say who made that who  designed it.
        Why can people go past the thought that there is a higher intelligence then us, we were made in his image to create and build, and many times it is a replica of what he has already done, the mind is a living computer, the eye is a perfect camera, the body itself is able to do combinations of wonderful things, yet man does not want to give him credit.

        1. Link10103 profile image80
          Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I will stray from the usual headache inducing argument of asking you to prove your god exists and ask if you can prove something else.

          Can you prove that god is a man?

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            God is the highest supreme being of the entire universe.  It is because of him all things came into existence, again I give you the example of a house ,we all know that it is impossible for  any house to build itself. Even the design was planned, as this is true we also all have programs of DNA is a blue print that tell you who you are or how our make up is,that make you who are ,and me who I am. Cell always replace themselves to repair but always end up as you . This only is only a small thought but there is plenty more.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Ah  - now this is a new type of god that did not create anything, but simply built it from existing materials.

              Who created the materials that your god used to build the Universe?

              1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I said already. God is not dependent upon building material to build any thing. He is independent.
                He can create any thing from none and from none to every thing. Your birth is an example of it. Again think wisely.... come out of your nutshell

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  This question was not directed at you - it was directed at the person who said god builds the same way a house is built. Try at least to use your brain for thinking.

                  You repeating baseless claims does not help the conversation at all - try proving your claims. My birth is an example of god majicking things from nothing? How so? Please prove your claims.

                  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    This is my forum. Your all questions are directly or indirectly comes to me. I will defend my topic too

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Ahh, the old "everything needs a creator" except of course the creator. Special pleading.

              1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
                Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                “Ex nihilo nihil fit .” Put plainly , something can't originate from absolutely nothing . ( Not Hawking’s as well as Krauss’ mendacious pseudo-definition of “nothing,” ( “The Grand Design”/ ”A Universe From Nothing“ ) however the notion that signifies no state of affairs , interactions , potentialities , qualities , that is, stated more forcefully , no “anything” . ) If it actually could , why don’t all kinds of things come from nothingness ? Just why aren't dinosaurs , for example , popping out of thin air , devouring everybody in sight ? Why aren't we terrified of elephants suddenly popping into being and crushing us while they rained down from the skies ? If nothing can in fact yield anything exactly why would it discriminate ? Conspicuously , then , this contravention of the laws of nature is exposed as misguided special pleading .

                Additionally , from the entirety of human experience , knowledge , wisdom , empiricism as well as findings we’ve distilled many other explicit , irrefragable realities including :

                - A posteriori causality
                - Being does not emerge from nonbeing
                - Whatsoever begins to exist has a cause
                - Information cannot spring from disarray
                - Fine-tuning does not emanate from randomness


                Presented with such unshakable abecedarian truths , the natural questions that follow are , “Where did the universe originate from 13 .70 billion years ago ?” or “What triggered it to come into existence to begin with ?” No matter the cause , it needs to possess a number of key characteristics .

                Which means that -

                ( 1 ) Whatsoever begins to exist has a cause .
                ( 2 ) The space-time universe began to exist 13 .70 billion years ago .
                ( 3 ) Thus , the space-time universe has a cause .

                ( 4 ) The cause of the universe is a transcendent , beginningless , spaceless , immaterial , timeless , unchanging , omnipotent good personal being .
                ( 5 ) A transcendent , beginningless , spaceless , immaterial , timeless , unchanging , omnipotent good personal being is the definition of God Almighty.
                ( 6 ) Hence , God Almighty caused the universe to exist 13 .70 billion years ago .


                Now , let’s take a more detailed look at each one of the premisses of this elegant syllogism . Foremost , this cause must per se be uncaused . Why ? Simply because an infinite regress of causes does not have any basis in reality ; it can’t be turtles all the way down . ( http://bit.ly/1o2W0vq )

                Next , this uncaused cause needs to transcend space-time since it itself created space-time . It is ,  as a result , spaceless .

                Third , considering the fact that this uncaused cause exists beyond space and time it is must be a non-physical or immaterial cause . Why ? Because physical stuff exists only in space – they possess dimension .

                Fourth , this uncaused cause must invariably also be timeless for the simple fact that it itself doesn't exist in space-time .

                Fifth , it must likewise be changeless . As I'm sure you're well aware , all of matter is present in a state of continuous flux . This is particularly observable at the atomic level . Given that this uncaused cause is immaterial it is not governed by the same forces that alter matter , and so , is unchanging .

                Sixth , this uncaused cause is without a doubt unimaginably powerful , if not omnipotent , for it produced matter , energy , space and time into existence entirely on its own .

                So , to sum up , whatever it is that brought about the universe to come into existence 13 .70 billion years ago it needs to be beginningless , spaceless , immaterial , timeless , unchanging and omnipotent .



                Still we're not done for there are two more attributes of this uncaused cause that we are able to ascertain from what we perceive of the universe . Before we identify these , though , we first want to take a finer look at cause and effect . Here's exactly what I mean : if a cause is sufficient to yield it's effect then the effect also needs to be present . The pair are joined at the hip , so to speak ; you can't have one without the other .

                Permit me to borrow from an illustration to help make this sharper . “Suppose that the cause of water’s freezing is the temperature’s being below 0°C . If the temperature were below 0°C from eternity past , then any water that was around would be frozen from eternity . It would be impossible for the water to just begin to freeze a finite time ago . Once the cause is given , the effect must be given as well .” ( http://bit.ly/WQtgZY )

                The problem is , if we have indeed a timeless , transcendent cause how come the effect isn’t permanent as well ? Stated another way , if this timeless , transcendent cause in fact brought the universe into being , why hasn't the universe always been ? Just how can a cause be eternal yet its effect commence a finite time ago ? We are aware the universe is roughly about 13 .70 billion years old but as you see we've further deduced that whatsoever brought about the universe has to be transcendent as well as timeless .

                The one and only way that is feasible is if this timeless , transcendent , uncaused cause were at the same time a free agent – a being with free will who is able to operate of its own volition . Naturally we all know free will is the hallmark of personhood .

                Last but certainly not least , this beginningless , spaceless , immaterial , timeless , unchanging , omnipotent being must be unimaginably good . Why ? Suppose we admit for the sake of argument that he’s evil . As this being is evil , that suggests he fails to discharge his moral duties . But then exactly where do those originate from ? Just how can this evil being have obligations he is violating ? Who forbids him to do the immoral things he does ? Right away , we discover such an evil being simply cannot be supreme . There needs to be a being who is even greater , one who is absolute goodness himself and thus the source of the moral responsibilities this other prefers to shirk . Therefore , there must necessarily exist a supreme being who is all powerful , all good and all loving ; One who is the very paradigm of good .

                So here we arrive at this uncaused cause of the universe 13 .70 billion years ago that is beginningless , spaceless , immaterial , timeless , unchanging , omnipotent and personal being who is all good and all loving .

                This is to say - God Almighty.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So - something can indeed originate from absolutely nothing. wink

                  1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
                    Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You're not making sens. How do you mean?

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow, it's funny how some will skew logic to fit their own dreams.

                  "( 1 ) Whatsoever begins to exist has a cause."
                  You've started with an error. Although the big bang isn't described as something from nothing it can be argued that we do in fact see things that come from nothing therefore something from nothing doesn't break any physical laws. Therefore whether begins may not need a cause.
                  "( 2 ) The space-time universe began to exist 13 .70 billion years ago .
                  ( 3 ) Thus , the space-time universe has a cause ."
                  Second error brought about by your first error. After this there is no need to continue but the logic doesn't hold because your first statement is false.

                  The problem with imagining something timeless that created the universe is that it would need to to create the universe and it it's self would need a cause if you are going to say everything needs a cause.

                  1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
                    Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Science without a doubt does not have experience of stuffs popping into being ex nihilo sine causa. Bohmian mechanics, for instance, is completely deterministic and furthermore emphasizes that every indeterminacy is actually conceptual.

                    “Being never arises from nonbeing”, “something will not originate from nothing” are putative metaphysical principles, just like cause and effect, unhindered in their application. Hence, we certainly have excellent grounds , both abstractly as well as scientifically, for reasoning that whatsoever begins to exist has a cause.

                  2. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
                    Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "The problem with imagining something timeless that created the universe is that it would need to to create the universe and it it's self would need a cause if you are going to say everything needs a cause."

                    That's a Strawman. Where do I claim that everything needs a cause?

            3. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well it does not matter how much proof or what is presented you are satisfied with your choice of an answer. I accept that as your right
              but I do not accept that as a truth.
              again you mix the conditions of world as  God's will
              not true either. When will people admit that Government after Government man has tried to rule himself and what do we have now man has lead us all to nuclear destruction, not only that but killing us with pollution, is that God's fault .
              and what about crime in your community some one decided it is to their advantage to snatch a purses, or take  belongings and home invasions .man thinking he has to answer to no one.
              Even the law needs law.
              I have heard some helpful information here on this subject and I have also learned that no matter how you want some one to understand they will not even when there is no excuse for them not to.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I take exception to the use of "man" as implying our species.  If you say "some men" have led to all our problems in this world (also implying of course that some women have been part of the problem), then yes, that would be true.

                1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  When I say man that includes WOMAN notice man is still part of the name .

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That was not my emphasis.  You are saying, are you not, that "Man,"  ie the human species is at fault in the eyes of your god?.  This the guilt/punishment basis of christian teaching.

                    I am saying address the error(s) and responsibility of individuals who are at fault, don't pile it all onto humanity as a whole.

          2. jonnycomelately profile image86
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            smile What if god was a woman - would that put a lot of people off-side?  Might alter the demographics a bit ....  and her relationship with her Son!

            Just asking, that's all....

            1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
              Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What if god wasn't the god you think it is?  Maybe its name is Cthulhu, Odin, Juno, Freyja, or Set?  Maybe it's not a male deity but a female deity.  Maybe there is more than one deity. 

              After all, Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on gods or goddesses.  How do you know when there have been around 5000 different pantheons in human history?

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well I know the truth when I hear it.  The bible clearly says man was created in his image. Man exist. Women was created after Adam that is true also woman exist, the sun the moon the stars exist also .that is visible as prof as being true, also the cycles of how the earth recycles for our human needs.
                What you are correct about is gods. People can make anything a god. The bible is also correct in this fact.Palms115: 2-8  Why should the nations say: “Where is their God?”  3 Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever he pleases.  4 Their idols are silver and gold, The work of human hands.  5 A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see;  6 Ears they have, but they cannot hear; A nose, but they cannot smell;  7 Hands they have, but they cannot feel; Feet, but they cannot walk; They make no sound with their throat.  8 The people who make them will become just like them, As will all those who trust in them.
                The earth is full of Idols and false gods. True also.
                The bible clearly tells our history and also things no human can know but a higher being then humans,
                The world powers as an example. They are also in our history books .
                Prophesy spoken and becoming a reality is also truth .
                The greatest proof is also death, man is born ,but man is born with a defect in the genes to die.
                There are many things that things just do not exist on its own.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You choose to mis-quote.

                  In fact it was "let us make man in our image..." - plural.

                  However, I firmly believe christians and other mono-theists have made "god" in their own image for convenience.

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I think that is supposed to be the "Royal We." big_smile

                  2. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Because there are many gods people worship the one and only true God is referred to by the name of Jehovah! Over 7000 times in Hebrew and Greek .
                    We all have names I will use his name to explain what happened.
                    New World Translation Ge 2:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven. 
                    Notice this information covers more detailed history here.
                    New World Translation Ge 2:7
                    7And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.  ( KT ,Is that hard to believe since people give mouth to mouth to get people to breath again?)
                    8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.
                    15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. (KTNotice to man ,Eve was not created yet ) 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, forin the day you eat from it you will positively die.”( KT first Law) 18 And Jehovah God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.” 19 Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it, each living soul, that was its name. 20 So the man was calling the names of all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a complement of him. 21 Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.

                    23 Then the man said: “This is at last bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman, Because from man this one was taken.”

                    (KT Notice Eves warning from Adam was even greater not to look or touch it.)
                    Well we all know she listen to satan voice through a snake he totally deceived her !  the whole story it is as plain they both took something that did not belong to them. Stealing!, nothing mythical about that, people steal everyday, next satan lied ,the first lie, that they would not die, nothing mythical about that, since they had not birth any children before the betrayal ,they were going to die not instantly ,but they slowly aged and died . Ge 5:5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
                    Today any one older then a hundred is called a Centenarian !you can go to Wilkipedia for details
                    Not mythical right!.

                    They continued to be parents of all humans today. In all our genes we are flawed because of them . We all can die. That is what science is still bringing out which is not mythical.
                    Also a cure for us was in the making ,He had arrived and finished his mission for our future to continue to live on earth in a paradise earth from the very beginning.is that hard to believe when earth does still have beautiful gardens.
                    What became of satan who used the serpent to throw his voice from. He is the ruler of this world! You see he challenge God's right to rule over what he had created.  Remember he lied and said they would not die, do humans die ? Yes ever since this happened. Good people,bad people, babies that have not even started do anything wrong die.
                    Proof .there is nothing mythical about that reality.
                    We all live this everyday. But the end of it is very soon. how ?

                    Reference Bible Re 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 
                    How does this all end ?
                    the challenge has been settle we see the results of satans's rulership over the earth ,the earth is a total mess economically ,financial  social hatred, pollution, Even full of lies that satan has spread.
                    And yes catastrophic deaths.
                    The scriptures make it clear  Reference Bible 1Jo 5:19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.  Ever since Adam and Eve. There is nothing Mythical about the truth we all are effected and we all have a hope for the future return of earths paradise.

                2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, so you believe your god exists because the bible exists.

                  I have proof that Spiderman exists!  I have a book called "The Amazing Spiderman."
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11961223.jpg

                  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    prove me another thing lady. You have given bible and you compare it with spider man. That shows, how much educated you are. In that case, I don't believe on your gravity show me the gravity?????

                  2. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    To Maggie I believe in the book that mentions your existence as you speak . You are not fiction.

                  3. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I would be dumb to argue over Spiderman's existence if I know he doesn't exist.

                    Obviously those denying the existence of God have a hard time convincing themselves.

              2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Think up lady...Awake! God is independent of genders. May be you need to be a lady to prove your identity. God doesn't. That thing is beyond gravity. May there is a gravity to involve in whether the fetus should be boy or girl.

                1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Independent of genders?  Oh, then Jesus was an it?

                2. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You know they had  their own relatives at that time , through other children born ,there was no law or concern about incest ,not until years later during Moses time.that was when the law was written .like a copy machine and it's ink. After so many copies from the master copy the ink will fade and will not be as strong as before. We are far from that perfection of master copies. So that is like trying to make a copy from a defect which makes a defect.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    They had relatives? Where in the story does it say anything about relatives. The story says Eve was the first women and had to boys. Where did they find wives?

            2. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If you have ever read the bible the bible says he made man in his image. The word his,means not female.
              Reference Bible Ge 1:27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 
              Remember he created man first. The women came later as stated.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Please consider more updated scientist proof.
                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
                Mitochondrial Eve
                In the field of human genetics, the name Mitochondrial Eve refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living anatomically modern humans, who is estimated to have lived approximately 100,000–200,000 years ago. This is the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mother’s side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally (but see paternal mtDNA transmission) is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition, differing only by the mutations that over generations have occurred in the germ cell mtDNA since the conception of the original "Mitochondrial Eve".

                1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Figuratively "Eve," not literally.  It happened that humans nearly went extinct at least two times and her genetics won out over other women's genetics.

                  Surely, you don't believe in the Adam and Eve hogwash?

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I believe in you Maggie and I do not think you are hogwash.

              2. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Let us create Man (mankind)  both male and female did he make man
                In the context written, man is both male and female

                1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Okay, there are two creation stories.  Yahweh creates Adam and then makes Eve from a rib.  Or god creates man and women together. 

                  Heck, you folks can't even get the stories straight in your holy book.

            3. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
              Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              God is independent of Gender. You humans are depend upon it, to prove your identity.

          3. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
            Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            God is independent of Gender..

            1. Link10103 profile image80
              Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              How convenient.

            2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
              Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Really?  Who neutered him?

              1. God shet profile image60
                God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Is that a 'civil' reply to someone's heartfelt belief?

                1. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  People didn't agree with McNaughten's heartfelt belief either and was not very "civil".

                2. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  People didn't agree with McNaughten's heartfelt belief either and was not very "civil".

      3. fortressrainbow profile image60
        fortressrainbowposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Even the the Demonic Forces and its Leader Satan claim that there is a God that they came from God whom they betrayed and rebel.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Have you spoken to Satan?

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Looking at your leaf that requires a god to move it:
      The wind moves it.
      Gravity moves it.
      Birds move it
      Insects move it
      Rain moves it.
      Liquids in the capillaries of the tree move it.
      Even sunlight impinging on it provides a force to move it.

      Nowhere in that list do we find a god moving it.

      Do you actually understand what Newton said, or are you trying to twist his words into some kind of imagined spiritual "force"?

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        newton doesn't prove a spiritual force, his laws are proving it.

      2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Who is controlling the movement of sun...

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Gravity. It orbits the centre of our galaxy.

          1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
            Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Gravity only exist on earth... my dear! sun is far away...

            1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
              Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Gravity exists as a weak force (comparatively)  throughout our universe.  All physical bodies that have mass have gravity.  Yes, even your thumbnail.  The reason why gravitation holds things to the earth is that the earth has a much larger mass than we do, hence gravity works to hold us here.

              That being said, the sun's gravity holds the planets in their orbits.  The gravitation from the galaxy's massive black hole in the center causes our sun to stay in its position. 

              Basically, you are so in error, it's not even humorous.  Please learn physics before trying to explain simple natural occurrences as being the work of your god.

              1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                can you prove it. where it is written

                1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Seriously?

                  Here's the link for those too lazy to look it up using Google: https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/yss/display.cfm?ThemeID=28

                  If you want the information how gravity holds the galaxies together: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/featu … intro.html

                  You need to pick up a simple physic's book and read it.

                  1. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Your atheist reasoning sucks. No wonder some people call April 1st "atheist day."
                    Our convictions are based on faith. We just believed what He says, and we believe He says it. No other proof required.
                    You require proof, yet most of what you believe and defend with passion is based on what you've been told, not because you were diligent and did your own peersonal research

                  2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Mam! Let me clarify you that I have studied physics. Although my field of interest is medicine. If You say gravity is the force which holds our universe ac to "Gravity is the powerful force that glues our universe together"( quoted from your text). Don't you think it is keep on changing?. Another thing gravity is force ? Then where it has come from?? Who has produce it ? Force is always caused by the external agent... can you define that external agent causing this force to occur?

                  3. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    One more thing ? If you explain existence of galaxy than prove me that How seed rips???? Is there gravity involves in it too?
                    How came sunrise and sunset in always the other directions??? Does gravity does it? Egg hatches???
                    gravity is involved in it too??? and above all birth of a human?

              2. 60
                Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                My God's existence could be proben through the things created. I geuss you just don't care or are too lazy to investigate. You have decided to believe many things without an objective proof, yet disregard God's revelation of Himself through His Son Jesuschrist

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Who told you God's existence can be proven through the things seen? Have you investigated that? If so I'd like to see the result of your investigation.

                  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    No need for me to investigate it is as clear as... mirror.

                2. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  "You have decided to believe many things without an objective proof, yet disregard God's revelation of Himself through His Son Jesuschrist".  (bolding added)

                  I can only assume you met Jesus himself - can you tell me if the holes in his hands and feet are gone yet?

                  1. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    He does have the pierced hands and feet, but no, he ain't the same as portrayed by artists throughout the ages. If you're interested, you are going to have to investigate yourself.
                    You people consider yourselves owners of the absolute truth and despise anyone with an opposing view. You the inquisitive ones, who demand objectivity, have accepted a lot of speculation as truth only because is popular or a fad, but regarding the TRUTH, are totally blind to objectivity and absolutely unwilling to seek after it. There is a price to pay for seekers of truth, and even a higher price to follow it

                3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I guess you're too lazy to learn how to spell and use good grammar.

                  Now, what objective proof?  Please enlighten me.

                  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually this lady is always prove others bad and herself righteous. May be this intelligence of her is influenced by gravity too... LIVE WITH GRAVITY.....

              3. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "Please learn physics before trying to explain simple natural occurrences as being the work of your god."

                Natural laws / occurrences and God both exist. God set natural laws/occurrences into place, so God is greater than the natural. A person who says natural occurrences are at work is right. But a person who says it is due to the work of God is also right, for God created it in the beginning, and THIS truth is the more valuable, more important truth to know. You chastise Dr Arsalan1989, but understand that no matter what other understanding he possesses or lacks in this world, he has the most valuable of all - wisdom and understanding that God exists and that God is the One behind the workings of the universe. God has entered into his rest from this initial work of setting all natural laws into motion, but we do well to understand that it is still ultimately the work of God and to give thanks to Him for his magnificent design and plan that allows the natural world to exist and function.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What? Gravity only exists on earth?

              1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                yes ! that's why. we can walk easily on earth. Walk on moon????

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  "Your weight on the moon is a function of the moon's gravity. First, we know that gravity is a force that attracts all physical objects towards each other (but why this happens is largely unknown!). Second, the greater the mass of an object, the stronger the force of gravity.
                  The moon is 1/4 the size of Earth, so the moon's gravity is much less than the earth's gravity, 83.3% (or 5/6) less to be exact. Finally, "weight" is a measure of the gravitational pull between two objects. So of course you would weigh much less on the moon. Imagine how far you could jump on the moon! The Apollo astronauts apparently had fun :-)"
                  http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_gravity.phtml

                  1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
                    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I know it mam. That answer was given by me to end a meaning less discussion,

    3. Caleb DRC profile image87
      Caleb DRCposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Dr. Arsalan,

      Perhaps I'm a little obtuse. I do not quite understand your perspective. Are you stating that all evidence of motion prove God's existence, or are you implying that the ultimate, or initial cause of all motion is proof of God's existence. For example, I throw a rock. Is the action of throwing the rock proof of God's existence? Or are you saying that the forces, their governing laws, me, the rock, the electromagnetic laws, and the complexities associated with this action are all created by God--the ultimate initial cause--and these are all proof of God's existence?

      1. PhoenixV profile image79
        PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        My impression was that he was making an unmoved mover argument. What do you think?

        1. Caleb DRC profile image87
          Caleb DRCposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I agree. Initially there must be an unmoved mover; i.e. God, and I believe this is to what he is referring.

          1. PhoenixV profile image79
            PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The only logical conclusion is an absolute necessity outside of contingent things. For me, reality suggests determinism of the contingent things, whether they are finite or eternal, which concludes to will or agency.

            1. Caleb DRC profile image87
              Caleb DRCposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              PhoenixV, I agree with your first sentence; however, on your second sentence we diverge. My reality is God. He is not determinable except in those things He has revealed to us; however, your last six words seem to agree with this perspective.

          2. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But then one must ask who moved the unmoved mover?

            1. Caleb DRC profile image87
              Caleb DRCposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Rad Man, as far as God is concerned, I do not think that question makes sense. God inhabits eternity( Isaiah 57:13), and, therefore, transcends time. It is not possible to ask "who moved the unmoved mover?" because there is no beginning to God. Furthermore, time is a physical quality; it had to be created by God, through Christ. Since time and space are so prominent in our equations of physics, there would be no physics--no Newton's laws--until God created time, space( another physical quality)--spacetime as Einstein defined it--forces, energy, and the physics that give these things structure and order. I can not create anything from nothing; however, I'm able to take something and make it vanish into nothing as money in my wallet!

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                More logical fallacies. "Everything needs to be created" except for my God. The logic in that isn't working.

                1. Caleb DRC profile image87
                  Caleb DRCposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Am I correct in assuming that you believe nothing was created?

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I do not believe someone created the universe. The concept is in it's self rather silly.

      2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I said that all things requires an external Force to change their state.That external force is governed by God. This prove God existence...
        Considering your example that you throw a rock...
        rock is in rest position... you pick it up (means you are the external agent which change the state of that rock from rest) but before picking it up, you were in a state of rest, You see a crow teasing a bird ( this is the external force which makes you see a crow) than naturally you interpret( another external force) than your position is changed and you react with it...

    4. cjhunsinger profile image70
      cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Arsalan
      Do you believe that a god exists or do you know that a god exists? As a man of Letters, I am sure that you know the difference.
      Your argument comes down to cause and effect and you place the un-provable existence of a god as the prime mover, the first cause, without cause. Now all you have to do, is to show how that is possible without conjecture or belief, as your only proof, that it is so.
      The universe is estimated at 14 billion years old and containing about 200 billion galaxies, 10 to the 24 power for the number of stars and perhaps 10 to the 60 power of the number of planets. The universe is estimated at about 92 billion light years in diameter and expanding. That is 92 billion times 6 trillion. Now that is quite a god. And in all this, we exist. We are born, live and will die on an insignificant speck of rock hurtling though space at over a million miles per hour coming from no where and going to nowhere.

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        These are all assumptions. My dear! exact figures you cannot quote.Think If you cannot think exactly about the creations of God. How will you think about him??? That's why God...

        1. cjhunsinger profile image70
          cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Your rebuttal is that I am not thinking correctly or thinking by your definition of correctness. If this is your position you have no argument.

          1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
            Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            As you think... I have no issues...

        2. cjhunsinger profile image70
          cjhunsingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Your demand for exactness is overwhelming, especially when proof of your argument is predicated upon a belief.

    5. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well that reply of cells was taken from a science question answered . We are not animals animals do not have the same mental structure or understanding as humans they work by instinque. We work by a different brain function. Surly that is why we have many zoo's if they were as intelligent as humans they would be In court fighting for their right to stay out of Zoo's lol!

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't say that were as intelligent (generally speaking) as us, I said we have the same cellular structure. We have the same organs. There are indeed however some animals that are smarted than some people. That's a fact. Now, your post showed that plants and animals have different cellular structures. You told me humans have different cellular structures from other animals, please go look that up.

      2. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Watch out, the chimps are out in force.   Lock the Parliament Doors!

    6. Slarty O'Brian profile image87
      Slarty O'Brianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you define god as that which produced all this then there is a god by definition. But it doesn't prove this god is a conscious entity. It could be a natural process. In fact it probably is the nature of energy itself.

      No need for a conscious god let alone the christian version which makes little or no sense.

      Yes for something to exist now something must have always existed in one form or other. But since you can't create or destroy energy it is the best candidate for that something, and its nature is exceptionally creative. And no, it was not created in the big bang if such an event happened, it was what expanded in that event.

      So we have an alternative to a conscious god, and I for one am happy with that.

      And you'll need to go beyond Newton to understand what I've said.

      Also, while he was right that without stimulus nothing would move to do anything, it is not just external stimulus, but internal stimulus  as well that drives all things.

      It comes down to need. You won't scratch unless you itch. No need.

      So what need would a god have to produce this? And how could that god be perfect if it has needs? It couldn't. A perfect god would mean we wouldn't exist. No need.

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "It's just like him to show up talking reason and causing trouble."
        I've been instructed by Mo to relay this message to you.

        I've read your post and agree with Mo and it's something I tried to allude to the other day. Those who say that God is beyond space-time and there has always been and always will be should be reminded that the singularity was beyond space-time as well and if God needs no cause then the singularity needs no cause therefor we can cut out the God and be left with the same thing. Energy.

    7. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You need to understand what external forces are.  You define everything as God, in part that is one definition.  To explain everything you don't understand as being God is because of a lack of knowledge, lack of vision.  Forces are not that which has arms and legs definitively.  Forces are winds of change, winds of influence.  A compost pile is full of forces to change solid in to rotted matter which is renewed as new soil.  If you like to call that God by all means do so.  But does it necessarily have to be called God?  God defined as an entity with arms and legs is to satisfy the lowly human experience who yearns for something greater than himself to soothe his troubled mind.  Are you manifesting the image of 'God' in a form to which you feel safe and secure within your lowly mind? 

      "A broadened mind is one that knows experience is knowledge, not what one has been told and then believes."

    8. vveasey profile image84
      vveaseyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting!
      What external force created what you call god?

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        God, and His universe, have existed for an eternity.

        Which gives rise to the concept that anything that can happen will happen in an infinite amount of time.  It will, in fact, have happened an infinite number of times regardless where on the timeline you are looking.

        We are but a single species, world and universe in an infinite string He has already constructed.

  2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    ok dear! than who moves the wind. who move the insects, Who moves the rain, who move the liquid in capillaries. You also know that sunlight moves at very high speed. Every thing needs an external force according to law....
    Words of newton are self explanatory... no need for me to twist it....

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I might have missed it, but where in newtons law does he attribute this external force to god and only god?

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Where I have said that newton has prove the existence of God through his law? I just said that laws was given by him was on observation of environment surrounding him. This law also prove the existence of God, If You think wisely!!!

    2. Aime F profile image83
      Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What force created God? Or did he create himself? Wouldn't that sort of be the same as a magical, all powerful leaf moving itself? Do you believe in magical leaves?

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        My dear! who created God? let me ask you another question? if you believe in God, God means not created (The thing which cannot be created). This question has no logic. If God is created by some other thing. Than that thing will be God and then again the same question who created that God and so on.... This thing has no end.....

        1. Aime F profile image83
          Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So how did God get here if he wasn't created?

          1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
            Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Why God need to move from one place to another... He is not depend upon movements...He is independant

            1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
              Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Moment a thing is dependent on any other thing. That is not God. Because he is independent.

            2. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If "God" has no need for movement, no need to move from place to place;  if "He" is independent of us; then "God" is not of us!   "God" is of the sky, away with the fairies!  An abstract.

              We Humans can and do sort out our own lives and our own problems.   The only time we have need of a "God" is when our own efforts seem inadequate or impossible.   Then "God" is designed to fill that need.  If each moment of need is different, then each rendering of "God" will be different.  Since the exact circumstances will change so will that "God" change.  The fool spends so much time arguing the nature of his or her concocted "God" and misses the new changing circumstances.

              What causes us all our fears, all our anxiety?

              Desire for more.
              Desire to hang on to what I have.
              Desire to prevent change.
              Misunderstanding.
              Myopia.
              "My" needs over others.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I imagine DR ARSALAN1989 has a lot on his plate right now. He seems to be of the assumption that gravity only exist on the earth and from what I've gathered thought everything revolves around the earth. I know it's hard to believe, but I can only go by his words.

                1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Weird that someone who is purportedly working as a dentist would be this uneducated. 

                  Perhaps it would help if he took some classes on physics, or if he's into watching TV, watching shows on the Science Channel that deal with real science.  Isaac Newton really only goes so far when it comes to physics.  There have been plenty of  geniuses after Newton who have contributed to how we now understand the universe works.  Newtonian physics goes out the window when dealing with quantum physics. If you want to make your brain hurt, check out quantum physics.

                  If you want to believe in your god, that's fine.  But have a good argument that is 1. Non-circular, and 2. follows basic logic, which isn't based on faulty or unproven assumptions.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't think it will make YOU dumber!  But it might activate your heart a bit.

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "Then "God" is designed to fill that need."
                …by who? us people?
                Then who designed the universe and everything in it?

                1. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, by us, people.

                  Who designed the universe?  Maybe some humanoid - there are enough imperfections for it to have been a bit like us....roll

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Imperfection is part of perfection.

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You've created a logical fallacy. Special pleading, when you claim everything needs to have a creator exempt for just this one thing. Try another argument.

    3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Physics.  Basic physics.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The force of God is behind everything. It is a given. Just work from there.

        I love the way Dr. Arsalam writes.  You can just hear the accent.
        He is coming from an Eastern view point and we should give him respect. We in the West need to hear it.

        (Just go with it! It won't kill you!)




        TWISI

        1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You mean believe in a god that I don't believe in?  And the "force of god" is NOT a given.

          Being "from an Eastern view point" doesn't give him the right of respect.  Unless you believe that giving those murderers and rapists in ISIS respect as well because they come "from an Eastern view point."  Which I won't.  No doubt Jack the Ripper had an accent.  Should I give the man respect because he had an accent?

          As for just "go with it.  It won't kill you."  No, it won't.  But it will make me dumber.

        2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
          DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Seems this was the same message during the Crusades...
          "Go with it...We won't kill you..."

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "The force of God is behind everything. It is a given. Just work from there.
            I love the way Dr. Arsalam writes.  You can just hear the accent.
            He is coming from an Eastern view point and we should give him respect. We in the West need to hear it.

            (Just go with it! (I was referring to the Eastern point of view) It won't kill you!)"

            Why are you mentioning the Crusades, Double Scorpion???

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
              DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It was more of a comparison than a mention. And I was referring to the wording not to an event.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Do you think going with the Eastern point of view (God is within and without,) will kill you?

                1. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hmm...Who knows...But why risk it....Religion of all sorts kills...maybe not physically...but it kills...look around...Just about every religion in the world is focused on death and what happens after...

                  so concerned with what happens after death one fails to actually live...

                2. DoubleScorpion profile image87
                  DoubleScorpionposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I see you missed the point...No worries...

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, U are missing the point if you ask me, which you didn't.
                    The answer is No, BTW
                    ( No worries here, either.)

    4. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Dr. Arsalan, Welcome to HubPages and to the world of rhetoric and counter-rhetoric!

      Please let me help you here:   You asked the question "Who moves the wind?"  The answer is:  "No one!."

      Anything, whether it be the Wind, or my finger, or an ant, or an electron, or an interplanetary rocket, moves because of...... a Difference

      In the case of Wind, it's because of a difference in pressure.   For example, if the temperature of a gas is given more heat at one point, the gas becomes less dense than where less heat is applied.   Less dense means there is a sort of vacant space available.   Gas that is more dense will flow towards the area of lower density in order to equalize the density throughout.   The flow of gas is the Wind.  It is not necessary for a person or a supernatural being to exist in order for this function of physical law to apply.   The same principles apply throughout our physical universe - the universe of which we are all aware simply because we are born of it.

      If you wish to work on a hypothesis that an "outside force" in someway begat, and controls continuously the happenings of this world, then that is your right.  It is also your right to give such a supposed force a name of your choosing.  That name might be "God,"  "The Almighty,"  "Allah,"  "Divine Consciousness," ..... whatever you choose, and whatever suits the minds of people you move amongst,  in order to convey mutual understanding.  A hypothesis simply allows one to use it as long as it is needed for communicating an idea (or many ideas).  It remains a hypothesis until some evidence proves the theory or disproves the theory.

      In the discussion you have begun here, and which is likely to be going on for a surprisingly long time (!), you will never see a resolution of the hypothesis, only an extreme effort to debunk it.

      Some will see the points I have made.  Others will hang on for dear life to their previously drawn conclusions.   It's a bit like "An Ay for an Ay and a Truth for a Truth.....and never the twain shall meet."  smile

      In My Humble Opinion....wink

  3. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    If you can explain a force behind every force than who is causing that force?

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Bingo, right here is the flaw in your logic. The question is not who, it's what.

      The question is not who causes the wind and gravity, but what caused wind and gravity.

      The question is not who caused that flower to grow there, but what caused the flower to grow there.

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        My dear! Who means "GOD". It  is not the thing....think wisely. Don't bully yourself.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I know what you mean by who, but you not asking the right questions. You should be asked "what" created this things. When you ask who you've made an assumption which makes your question invalid as it excludes the things that may have created what you are looking for.

  4. Righteous Atheist profile image60
    Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago

    No. lol

    1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
      Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      use your mind, dear. Saying "NO" doesn't mean that God almighty doesn't exist

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And by calling yourself a "righteous atheist" doesn't mean that you are right....

      2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry sweetie - I thought you wanted an answer to this question. Saying YES does not mean your invisible, undetectable Super Being DOES exist.

        Why ask the question if you don't want an answer? Odd how you religious zealots tend to do that a lot.

      3. 60
        Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It is hard to argue with a generation that was educated by a purple dinosaur and/or a giant bird. They are totally convinced of the reality shown to them by Oliver Stone and Ted Turner and the likes. I wonder if they ever went into a lab. to confirm the teachings received through mass communication media

  5. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    If you want to prove me wrong than have a discussion on it. What does "no"mean?
    And I haven't said just"yes" I have given an explanation to it... you have a problem than ask????

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "No" means no. God does not exist.

      You have not given any explanation - you have made nonsensical claims about god making the wind happen. Please prove god exists. Until you do - I will stick with "no". wink

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If I am wrong! than prove me wrong???? the things you are saying" nonsense claims" prove these claims as non sense....

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I don't need to prove you wrong. You need to prove you right. wink

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Either there are no miracles or life is a miracle.


    Newton's discoveries provide evidence of some of the miraculous aspects of life,
    obviously.

    Even scientists rely on the concept of God when they can't explain things.
    They know only God can answer certain questions.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Defining "miracle" as an event caused by a force outside of our universe, Newton's discoveries show no such thing.  They all show that natural events originating from within nature are the cause.

      As there has never been a "miracle" found, then there must be no miracles.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        - its all a miracle down to the very first burst of light from the spiritual realm into the physical.
        If Dr. Arsslam and I want to see it that way, what harm is it to you? We are not preaching dogma… just suggesting possibilities.

        You are not anti-God… well, prove it!

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          "its all a miracle down to the very first burst of light from the spiritual realm into the physical"

          Sorry - I don't see such a bald statement of fact as a suggestion of a possibility.  If you want to do that, what about the pink unicorn snorting fire which was that first burst of light?  Or Thor striking sparks with his hammer?  Suggestions of possibilities can be (and often are) an amusing form of thought play, but until some evidence is found that there is truth there they can be nothing more.

          I've never made the claim of being anti-god, and thus have no reason to even try and provide any proof.  But if YOU want such proof, look back through the thousands of posts I've made: you will not find a single one (in context) suggesting such a thing.  You WILL, however, find many instances of me saying that there may be a god, although I personally find the probability very low.  Ignorance of the existence of a god, then, and not anti-god.  Just anti making statements that there IS a god, spirit world, or anything else that has no evidence for it.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Its all evidence. Its all God. Its the Eastern way of viewing life which I have taken. One is free to take it or leave it. You have left it. That's fine by me. It just sorta proves you are anti-God. Okay.


            TWISI

            1. janesix profile image59
              janesixposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What does TWISI mean?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The Way I See it, as in, its just me: Not a threat, not a movement, not preaching, not expecting any kind of agreement.

                Sometimes Pardon My Craziness or PMC is more appropriate.


                So, PMC, please.

            2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Is this why you hate reality so much and hope it ends soon?

              SUSFA

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                (I was joking… My mistake was thinking ten year olds would not see it that way. So, yes I agree it was my bad-ness.)

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Not a question of badness - this is simply a natural result of being anti-reality.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    To me the physical is evidence of the metaphysical...

            3. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Because I leave imagination behind in favor of evidence when searching for truth means I am anti-god?

              A novel way of putting it, but perhaps the closest to reality at the same time.  You may be on to something here.  As current definitions of any god come solely from imagination, perhaps I AM anti-god in that respect.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                and yet you capitalized: I AM!     You are subconsciously closer to the truth than you consciously realize!

                PMC

      2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Miracle is also a force leading to some thing which is against the rules of nature.... Again proving the existence of God. God can go against his own rules of nature... Proving his power above all...

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There have been no miracles. Therefore god does not exist. Well done - you proved god does not exist.

          1. 60
            Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yours is an absolute statement. I guess you went from one end of the universe to the other and found no God there. I guess you met Bolivar's famous white horse and foun God never rode it.
            Since you've been there, done all of that, then you must be god, because you've been around all over

        2. Cat333 profile image81
          Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Amen!

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I also believe this and can provide examples of miracles in my life.  But, I am interested in your "for instances,"  Dr. Arsalan and Cat333!
            (as, of course, the atheists will also be interested.)

            1. Cat333 profile image81
              Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Kathryn. I'm going to start by giving a couple of definitions of "miracle", since people often argue about what constitutes a miracle. Miracle: 1) a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency; 2) a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.

              I've experienced many miracles falling into one or the other of these definitions, and have shared several here in the forums. Sorry, this will be lengthy (but is still only a portion).

              1) In 2008 on New Years Eve while around 24 or 25 weeks pregnant with my first child, I was in a car accident that destroyed the vehicle. A vehicle had pulled out into our lane as if we were invisible, hit our vehicle, and then we ran into a large pole at a high speed. My husband pulled me out of the vehicle, as there were dangling wires and sparks all about, and ran me (pregnant and having just been in a severe accident) to a safe place, while people called an ambulance. Because of the trauma, I went into premature labor. In the hospital, watching the ball drop, I lay there singing praises to God and knowing he would protect me and my unborn baby. My baby was at the stage that if he'd been born he'd have about a 50/50 chance of survival, and if he survived, he'd likely have problems of some sort due to significant prematurity. Well, to look at the vehicle, you'd say the people inside were either dead or severely injured. But miraculously, we were fine (other than a little bruising). My labor stopped and I carried my son to full term. It was as if we'd never been in this serious accident.

              2) In my twenties, while in the passengers seat of my sister's car, a truck pulled out beside us, and I saw it right there about to hit me on the passengers side, at which time I called to God "No, I don't want to die". And he moved the truck back, so that I saw it was no longer right beside me, but farther back, and my sister had just enough time to swerve into the other lane to avoid it hitting us.

              3) When my husband was in a treatment center for a month and would not be getting a paycheck, and I was home with our infant daughter so had no income, and we had no money to pay the mortgage, God gave me assurance that he would take care of us, and so I trusted him rather than stressing about it. Just at the time of the missing paycheck (and when the mortgage was due), an unexpected check IN THE AMOUNT OF THE MISSING PAYCHECK ($1,480) came in the mail from a settlement form filled out about a year earlier that said to expect around $300. When the time of the next missing paycheck that month came, and I had no money for the other bills, a second unexpected check came (his work gave all hundred + employees a bonus, even though they don't give bonuses) and covered all the bills. God had given assurance that he would provide, and he did just that, even down to the detail of the missing / needed amount to make it clear that it was him. 

              4) When I experienced significant and ongoing sexual harassment by a leader at work who was involved in a variety of problematic behaviors (abuse of a male resident, sexual harassment of several female employees and females visiting the center, dishonesty and unethical practices in a variety of areas, cover-ups, etc.), as well as extreme retaliation by corrupt leaders for reporting the harassment, God promised me that I would be given victory and would not be put to shame. Yet it looked impossible: I had no money for a good lawyer and my position was not one of influence or power; I was battling two government agencies (one I technically worked for and one at which I was placed), both of which were big and powerful with the best lawyers; the man I was charging was in a powerful position and was well liked and backed by the other leaders; lawsuits, especially sexual harassment lawsuits, are very rarely successful, and even the successful ones are minimally successful, so that court costs are barely covered... Yet God was true to his promise and gave me the highly unlikely victory. I received a large settlement (MUCH higher than typical successes, and a good down payment on a house), maintained my right to speak on the situation (unheard of, as typically in settlements, they're "buying" your silence), the perpetrator was fired, and a couple of others who permitted the situation and/or acted corruptly had to retire early.

              5) Miraculous healings - For example, upon a unique (for me) out-of-body experience in which the Lord manifested and said to me, "Focus on me, not the pain", he HEALED my body, so that the pain of 13 years was gone and has not returned for 15 years.

              6) The miraculous appearance of the exact relevant and needful verse out of the more than 31,000 verses in the Bible. For example, when talking with a juvenile thief in detention and telling him he can't serve both God and money, I opened the Bible IMMEDIATELY to the verse saying "You can't serve both God and money", for which there would be a 2 out of 31,102 chance. Such occurrences happened on numerous occasions, making the divine intervention/ manifestation all the more evident.

              7) The salvation of those prayed for who were far from God, but suddenly come to know Him following others' prayers and the experience of supernatural manifestations related to the person, WITHOUT any influence in the natural realm (not seeing the person or talking with them about God). For example, a man where I'd previously worked regularly spoke against God, said the bible was nothing but a bunch of made-up stories, and so on. After claiming his soul for Christ in full confidence that God would hear and act, I experienced a unique manifestation of a mass of angry demons three times the night following the claim/prayer. I have since discovered that the man began calling out to God in his depression and difficulties, and now praises the God he once cursed.

              1. oceansnsunsets profile image87
                oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you for sharing your miracles Cat. 

                God is simply, amazing. smile  I am so thankful to him.

                1. Cat333 profile image81
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You're welcome and thanks, oceansnsunsets! He is amazing!!

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you!

                1. Cat333 profile image81
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You're welcome!

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      That is correct - there are no miracles or the word is meaningless.



      This is wrong - clearly.


      False. A total fabrication on your part.

      1. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        LIVE HAPPILY IN YOUR FOOL's PARADISE.... God will bless you.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Interesting how religionists who think gravity exists only on earth get so angry when asked to prove their claims.

          Got proof?

          1. 60
            Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Did you probe there is gravity in other planets yourself? Or you were told?
            "got proof?"

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Ahhhh, sure. Other planets have moons, which means they have gravity. The moon has gravity that's why people were able to walk on it. Oh and other stars have planets which means they have gravity as well.

              1. 60
                Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Did you walk on those moons? Or somebody told you?

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, I saw them with my own eyes through a telescope.

                  1. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You saw gravity through your telescope?

                  2. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    By the way, do you own Mt. Palomar?

            2. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              We got told....by good honest scientific research....something that can be proven without a shadow of a doubt.

              You don't "believe it?"    Funny fellow!

              1. 60
                Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                "funny fellow" yourself, I don't think you have everything required to probe all the things you consider truth. But when we believe the TRUTH, which we cannot probe to the foolish, then you disregard and despise our beliefs.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  +

                2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Your finger needs to move just a little to the left and find the "v"

                  Just have faith - The Force will find it for you.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "v" ? what for?

                  2. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Burden of proof is on you highly intelligent creatures. And NO, faith is not blind, it is based in knowledge, it comes by the hearing of the WORD.
                    And yes I have done my research, but you have to do your own. My findings will not suffice you

                  3. 60
                    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    appreciate your grammar correction. it's a shame you are so wrong about your beliefs

            3. Righteous Atheist profile image60
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What does that have to do with your claims?

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Actually Newton was wrong with gravity. His math is still sometimes used because it's easier than what  Einstein gave us, but he really didn't understand gravity.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        OIC!  (That is: Oh I See!)

      2. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
        Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        First of all, be as brilliant as newton than object on it... this claim is to just make you fool

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I guess you haven't heard about Einstein?

          1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
            Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I suspect he has not.

    4. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
      Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Nice one... I appreciate your comments.....

  7. 60
    ruhisandhuposted 2 years ago

    Some powers are exists ...i think those powers are god . But if u think god moves leaves , rain etc thats not true .... If i move one finger then 10987 km air moves ( approx) . Then u think how rain ,leaves moves ...... But i bleave in god

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    "... he's either looking for sycophants or is trolling."
    I disagree.
    I think he is revealing possibilities. You got something against that?

    1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What possibilities?  That his god exists?  Prove to me that there is an omnipresent deity.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Look around, look within.  In a nutshell, its all God.

        Pardon my Craziness.

        1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Again, you have no logic and you're not convincing me.

  9. 60
    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago

    Sorry Maggie, despite your denial you are a proof of God's existence. In the first place your whole body carries His signature in every cell and atom. Not to mention you were created in His own likeness and image. Only thing though, you won't know Him unless He reveals Himself to you.

    1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Circular argument, dude.  WHERE is the proof?  Mere existence?  Nope.  Try again.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The creation is not hard to understand at all . Example Man makes robots all the time. Does that make a creator of robots hard to believe of his existence ?
        Reference Bible Ge 2:7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul. 
        (KT notice formed from dust , like made from clay) notice blown into nostrils after the body was made
        Breath which oxygen to make the body function, many have been revived from CPR.
        Also note what happens at death.
        Reference Bible Ge 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” 
        Many funerals use those words for centuries . And what is left in those grave sites your DNA of Dust.
        That is not hard to understand.
        Also scientist have broken down element of deceased bodies and they carry the same as dust or dirt .
        We have much scientific proof .
        As a scripture that is written
        Reference Bible Ps 103:14 For he himself well knows the formation of us, Remembering that we are dust. 
        The fact that through our nostrils the breath and the life force he share with each and every soul.
        When that life force leaves the body like a flame from a candle then it is up to him to return the flame.
        Many flames will return in the resurrection hope. All those DNA will be returned in a better condition.
        Do not let your hope be taken by throwing the key away to a future life. There is much to do ahead and much to prepare for you all have and invitation . Look into it more.

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Even if that were the case (and you will know from my other posts that I don't agree with your statement), how could such a "god" have any interest in the details of an individual human life?

      Presumably you are coming back into discussion having done so previously under another nickname.   Care to declare your ID?   Otherwise it's just going to be another boring, repetitive argument that will get us no where.

      PS  I wonder if there has ever been one convert to christianity resulting from a discussion on this site.

      1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
        Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        ::applause::

  10. 68
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    Does God Exist?

    Do we exist? Please

    Regards

    1. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      For sure, Child.  But not really sure why I let you....  sad

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You see the logic right.

        We exist, therefore God, the easter bunny and Santa exist.

        1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Oh goodie!  I get my own dragon!!

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            ...better than an over size falcon any day!

  11. 60
    Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago

    Maybe in Orion's Belt?

  12. 68
    paarsurreyposted 2 years ago

    Does God Exist?

    Sure God does exist. Who has proven that He does not exist?

    Regards

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The burden of proof is on you. You are making the positive claim. You know this - right?

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Your reason is faulty. I believe in G-d very naturally.
        Your claims is also positive. Isn't it? Please provide evidence.

        Regards

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And Hindu's naturally believe in many Gods. And children naturally believe in Sanda, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy. And some adults naturally believe that big foot exists.

          What's your point?

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Please give your proof/evidence that G-d does not exist.

            Regards

            1. Jomine Jose profile image78
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The proof is the same as the proof for non existence of Santa Claus.

            2. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Please give your proof/evidence that Big Foot does not exist.

              You've made the claim that he exist therefore you have to back the claim up with evidence.

              Can you supply evidence that the Hindu Monkey God doesn't exist?

        2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No - my claim is negative. I do not believe your claim. Please prove your claim. At least you admit you just "believe" now and have no proof. That is a start. Which g-d is it you have chosen to believe in?

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think he must have a faulty keyboard that is inserting a dash when he hits the o.

        3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          One cannot logically prove a negative (hence your belief in your Judeo-Christian god).  Because somewhere, out there, there could be your god, BUT unlikely.  Why?  Because there is no logic and no consistency to anything in Christianity.  Here are some wonderful examples (more than 60,000):
          http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
            Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think this one is a particular Muslim cult that most Muslims think is an abomination. But I could be wrong. big_smile

    2. Jomine Jose profile image78
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Anyone who use logic (provided they are honest), including you, can prove it.

  13. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    yes force cannot be cause by itself

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Can you show us this thing that is causing gravity please.

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Can it be caused by energy?

      Plus you are making a massive logical fallacy. Special pleading. Your biggest claim for the existence of God is that everything needs a cause, but you then claim your God is the only thing without said cause.

      Logically your argument is unsound.

  14. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    Why I should show you??? I don't need proof for God.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You made a claim that "something" is causing gravity. Of course you need proof - otherwise people will reject your claim.

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If it is your wish to convince others that your god is credible then surely you will need to provide proof.

      Otherwise all of your argument is empty.

      Of course, if all you require in life is acceptance of the existence of a god to your own satisfaction, that's ok.  Who are we to deny you?

    3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, then why did you ask "Does God Exist?"  Or were you just thinking you'd be using this as a bully pulpit?

  15. Dr Arsalan1989 profile image60
    Dr Arsalan1989posted 2 years ago

    If you don't than prove me that God doesn't exist???

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      More fallacy - you made the claim of a god, YOU prove it.  Or prove that the invisible, undetectable pink unicorn under your bed doesn't exist.

      1. 60
        Tdzikenuposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Invisible, undetectable pink unicorns? I thought the question is about the existence of God. How smart can someone be to use the non-existence of mythologycal creatures argument, to deny the existence of God?

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Because Gods are mythological creatures.

        2. Aime F profile image83
          Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The point was that you can't prove that something does not exist. You make a claim that something exists and it's on YOU to provide evidence for that claim. If you can't, then you can't expect people to believe it just because you say it's true.

        3. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No, the topic is about a claim that a mythological creature exists if it can't be proven otherwise.  The reasoning process, in other words, about how the conclusion was reached.  The pink unicorn is just such a process, identical to the one you propose for a god's existence; if you can't prove it isn't there then it must BE there.

        4. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          How smart can some one be who does not understand that gods are mythological creatures? sad

        5. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          God IS a non-existent mythological creature!

          Because ?   wink.....show us how smart you can be, tjad.

          1. Chris Neal profile image83
            Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Except that He isn't, and they are.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Prove it. wink

              1. Chris Neal profile image83
                Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Prove He didn't. wink

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                  Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Dear me. sad

                  1. Chris Neal profile image83
                    Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, sweetie?

        6. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          But there is an invisible pink unicorn under your bed!  I SAW IT! 

          Prove that I didn't see it.

    2. Jomine Jose profile image78
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Everything exist is a proof that god doesn't,  now go figure.

  16. 60
    Nhlanhla8701posted 2 years ago

    Yes..

  17. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    My replies are not to you so why read them.

    1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Public forum.  If you don't want someone to reply don't write it so anyone can see it.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        To Maggie my reply was to RA I should have been more clear . I do not have a problem with replies I have a problem with people directly attracting me in a verbal way as him or her have done repeated  times.
        My point is not to attack ,make fun or offend no one ,but it seems that their are those who mock, and make it an offense to insult people. I do not play with the subject at hand . There is a time for everything  there also is a time of truth and seriousness. I am sure if you are a professional in a certain field you had to be serious at some point .this subject is about life and how to keep living in the future. I do not find any thing funny about it.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Please try to reply to the post then. Most of the time you make a general replay and we have no idea who you are replying to.

  18. Link10103 profile image80
    Link10103posted 2 years ago

    Is anyone actually paying attention to what they are saying or is it just simply godunnit.

  19. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    You were a child, you were born a man from a woman ,you are not fictional or mythical.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yea, I got that. You got me all excited for nothing. Spider man has descriptions of people as well.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Yes but you are not in that book spider man can never die if the writer so wish, We as humans die everyday. We are not fiction.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          We are not fiction but both of those books are fiction.

        2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Prove to me Spiderman isn't real.

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Do you believe that Spiderman exists in reality?

            Regards

            1. Jomine Jose profile image78
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Is it belief that make existence?
              Do you believe sun exists?

              1. 68
                paarsurreyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Why is it necessary for existence to disbelieve it?
                I believe that sun exists? Don't you? Please

                Regards

                1. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Suppose you stop believing in the existence of sun, will it cease to exist?
                  Existence has nothing to do with belief.
                  PS: sorry for the late reply,  I saw yours only now.

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    People prove that everyday seeing is not enough evidence to believe in God. But what many do not know is that seeing does not have to be a physical connection. Seeing can be the understanding also of a presence.  Example you are called to an emergency room
                    They will not let you in to see a loved one. Can you see who is all in that room with them. No!
                    But you believe there is doctors and nurses and staff helping even though you can not see what is happening.
                    There are people that can see more then the physical things they do believe and can see and understand spiritual things.
                    There is a scripture that says
                    Reference Bible 2Co 4:18 while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting. 
                    Notice keep your eyes on the things unseen  , meaning spiritual things. Can be seen  ,which is what believe stands on.

            2. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The book Spider-Man exist because some one created his character and put him on pages
              We know the bible is Authentic because you are written in the pages as man, but you are a living witness of his work  ,you are alive. Not on a cartoon  page.
              That example of Spider-Man does not fit.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You've lost me with that one.

            3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
              Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Someone wrote books on Spiderman.  I see Spiderman in the movies.  Spiderman lives in Queens, New York, which is a real borough.  I look around and I've seen spiders, so they must be proof of Spiderman's existence. My best friend has a friend who has seen Spiderman.

              So, Spiderman does exist.

              Now, if you tell me that my logic is faulty, then perhaps we can say your logic is faulty about your god.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Maggie everybody knows that spider man is  fictional, even in the movies.
                If you do not want to believe in God that is your choice ,but that is not a good example to use because we all know even you it is fiction that is why you are using it.
                But that book has nothing to do with your existence which is explained as you ignore that fact of truth.

                1. Jomine Jose profile image78
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  For a number of kids spiderman is real.
                  There are adults who think sherlock homes is real.
                  It is only for christians the gospel is non fiction, for the rest it's just fiction.

                2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                  Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Kiss and Tales, everyone knows that god is fictional, even in the movies. If you do not want to believe in Spiderman, that is your choice, but that is not a good example to use because we all know, even you, that the Bible is fiction.  That is why you are using it.

                  But the Bible has nothing to do with your existence which is explained as you ignore that fact of truth.

                  (Sorry, I had to correct your grammar.  You realize that you said in your earlier quote that god is fiction, yes?)

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks Maggie you notice my error but you correct my grammar in my favor! if God was fiction no one would be having this conversation as we speak, he is the only one responsible through his son that gave us life. That is what it is. No one can explain to me any other explaination . Even you who gets around the explaination by saying he does not exist well then explain how we do!

        3. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          How do you know Spiderman is fiction and the Bible is not fiction?  I am not in the Bible either and the writers of the Bible are dead.  God can never die if the writer so wished. 

          You got one thing right:  Humans die every day and we are not fiction.  Spiderman is about humans, and Spideman is a human, so he is not fiction.

  20. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Does It becomes relevant of your existence on  how you came about and how you play a part in the future to keep existing into a beautiful paradise earth. There is nothing bad or mythical or impossible about that. People travel to beautiful vacation spots all the time. The only difference here is that the whole earth will be a thing of beauty without sickness and death. That is what we are offered ,but you do not have to accept it, it is not forced on anyone.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      One should never accept a pig in a poke; we should always look a gift horse in the mouth.  Meaning any gift needs careful checking to make sure it isn't a Trojan Horse or worse.

      What evidence can you offer that the earth will be a paradise OR that it is something we should accept?  It is not free, after all; how can we be sure it is worth the price?

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I really agree with you here wilderness ,you are cautious with great concern. Well have anyone ever promised you anything? Or have you promised anybody anything ?if so what is a man's word to mean!
        When he say ps he is going to do something ? What is it supposed to mean?

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well, when someone promises something, I look to see if I think he can deliver it.  I look at his fulfillment of past promises (did he promise the moon and deliver a pound of sand?), and what he has done in general (don't buy a car from someone who has previously sold 5 lemons).  We all check (or should!) before accepting any deal - why should this one be any different?

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Says the door to door salesman.

      2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
        Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Good point.  I've always found the "shepherd" reference to be a bit creepy.  Sheep are set up to be sheared and to be slaughtered.  Shepherd's pie is a favorite of mine.

        So, if their god is a shepherd, he can sell them to other gods like chattel.  He can butcher them and eat them.  He can shear them and sell their wool.  And they have no choice.

        Comforting, isn't it? ;-)

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          *shrug*  According to Christian theology we are to god less than dogs are to us.  The difference is greater than even that, and the Christian god treats his "dogs" even worse than we do ours.  So yes, set up to be sheared and slaughtered is probably a very apt description.   Certainly their god knows how to slaughter - his servants glory in that ability.

          1. Link10103 profile image80
            Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But remember...he loves us all

        2. Maggie Bonham profile image88
          Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That was what I thought, too.

          Now, for the heck of it, there have been about 5000 different gods or religions (can't seem to remember at the moment, and too lazy to look it up).  How do they know they're following the right god?  Other than being brainwashed in church growing up or holding up the Bible and telling me it's their god's words. 

          The Buddhists have their holy writings.  The Hindus have their holy writings.  Various pagans have writings from their gods.  So, what makes the Bible special (other than it's chock full of contradictions, misogyny, genocide, child rape, slavery, and other abuse)?
          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11966575.jpg

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            How do your children or family know you belong to them as a mother ,grandmother, sister, wife, and many more. It is not about the title it is about the person.
            There are many gods .but there is only one true God that has been misrepresented people have confuse him and accused him of satan's works , the real treasure life eternal is offered to us all as it was Adam and Eve. They are dead forever we have a hope into the future.
            If I told you I had a cure for your ailment that caused serious health issues would you want that cure?
            Or would you doubt it so much ,that you would not allow the opportunity to be cured. Well believe it or not that is the case as we speak.
            All the wrong things that could ever happen to us as humans are coming to an end.
            Why do I speak to you and others alike. Because this life is not meant to last in this condition.
            There is a cure for all our problems. People have hidden it away with misleading religious claims.
            religion has not kept the truth clean and will be accountable for many lives they mislead .but at the same time the truth is as real as you still available ,And it will always stand. Only through that truth will people receive the cure for their needs.
            My talking to every one here is of concern for many to be truly happy in the future days to come.
            Consider some future truth posted.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              To believe such stuff for yourself is ok.  But to peddle it as the answer to everyone's problems is arrogant in the extreme.

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      When door to door salesmen used to come to the door promising all kinds of things for a price we had to put our sceptical hat on to not get ripped off. You are trying to sell something you can't produce, it's not very nice to take advantage of people like that.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I agree RM nobody wants to be a victim of hungry money practices.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Then why are you selling something that you have no idea (nor can you) if it will work. What if you sell the wrong version of God and God gets upset by that kind of thing. You'll have done me wrong and done yourself wrong.

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            First no body said anything about selling ,this has nothing to do with sales.
            I was asking how important is a mans word when he makes a promise,? that all.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You are attempting to sell your religion and are making promises you can't keep about a paradise you don't know exists. So if you came to my door selling a two week vacation in Puba I'd have to do a little investigating before I signed on the dotted line. And if I asked you about Puba and you say you've never been there I'd begin to be sceptical, so I'd look for it on google earth and I'd be even more sceptical when I can't even find it there.

              So, you are trying to sell us paradise, but you admit you've never been there and have no idea where it is, nor can you prove it exists.

              Same thing.

            2. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Of course it has to do with selling!  We can start with the tithes God requires, go on to relinquishing our ability to reason and giving up much of what we enjoy in life.  We can continue with being a life-long slave to words written by ignorant barbarians thousands of years ago, along with refusing to learn anything new.

              The price is high, indeed, for a promise that cannot be verified and from an acknowledged genocidal murderer that doesn't understand morality or truth.

        2. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Best to stay from the collection plates, then, and anyone asking us to fill them.

  21. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    What is your word and seal, are you like the example you mention or are you a man of your word?

    1. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The point of asking what your words mean in value as to when you promise something is even more greater with God Almighty. As written this is a seal of his intentions for all that will accept it.
      New World Translation 2Pe 3:13
      13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

      Joshua 21:45
      45 Not a promise failed out of all the good promises that Jehovah had made to the house of Israel; all of them came true.

      Reference Bible 1Ki 8:56
      56 “Blessed be Jehovah, who has given a resting place to his people Israel according to all that he has promised. There has not failed one word of all his good promise that he has promised  by means of Moses his servant.


      Reference Bible Nu 23:19 God is not a man that he should tell lies, Neither a son of mankind that he should feel regret. Has he himself said it and will he not do it, And has he spoken and will he not carry it out?


      A promise of a King is much more serious then any promise.
      As described
      Job 22:28 What you decide on will be done, and light will ...
      biblehub.com/job/22-28.htm
      "You will also decree a thing, ... King James Bible Thou shalt also decree a thing, ... When you promise to do something, ...

      Reference Bible Heb 6:18 in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You are using ancient texts, written for ancient peoples, edited an re-interpreted by the heirachy of Rome that you, an uneducated "believer," can throw at to the world as your "truth."

        In this modern age, in a huge capitalistic plutocracy, there are many like you, peddling this nonsense door to door.  Can you wonder that there is another religion in the world which seeks to preach another story?  One that is just as dogmatic and erroneous?

        1. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No there is nothing ancient about people, man woman and child, nor death. We live this fact,
          What is ancient about a future that was meant for us all the time  just soon to be a reality.
          What is a threat about that? There is none. Satan was the cause of Adams falling out and lost himself an opportunity to  continue to live.  Now we are handed the same opportunity . What is wrong with that.
          If you are trying b be so technical it is not. It is really understanble.

          1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
            Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            It's understandable if you drink the Kool-aid.  I'm just saying.

            Indoctrination is best before the kid learns logic.  Then he or she will still try to shoe horn the explanation so it fits the belief.

            Kids, it was fun, but honestly, I'm not going to convince you at your folly, and you sure as heck am not convincing me.  Have fun and enjoy yourselves.  I have to make money and unless your god is going to slip ten million dollars under the door, I really have no other way to make money than to write my fingers off.  So, if you're feeling charitable (and I haven't seen much of that Christian charity), drop by my hubs and read a bit.  Promise, there's nothing about god in them unless you're dyslexic.  ;-)

  22. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    No we will not start with that because the true God does not use that to his benefit man does ,man has always put a price on anything even his mother or child ,cat or dog , that is not the way of the True God, that is another ploy of satan.

  23. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    No we will not start with that because the true God does not use that to his benefit man does ,man has always put a price on anything even his mother or child ,cat or dog , that is not the way of the True God, that is another ploy of satan.

  24. lone77star profile image90
    lone77starposted 2 years ago

    Dr Arsalan1989, you said, "If we consider this explanation as a universal truth it means that not a SINGLE LEAF ON EARTH WILL MOVE IN THE ABSENCE OF EXTERNAL FORCE."

    You cite God as that "external force." But consider this:

    There are plenty of forces external to the leaf, but internal to the physical universe. The leaf will move because of physical forces surrounding it. For instance, thermal potential between cold polar regions and warm equatorial regions creates wind.

    God is external to all physical things -- not just the matter and energy, but also space and time.

    But the leaf and all its surrounding physical reality (space-time, and energy-mass) were "moved" into existence by an external -- God.

    The universe exists, therefore He IS, to borrow from Descartes.

    1. Jomine Jose profile image78
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The universe exists, therefore universe is, to be sensible. Argumentum ab auctoritate is wrong here on two counts.

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Guess you didn't understand Descartes very well. Descartes is my favorite atheist from history. wink

  25. 0
    Rad Manposted 2 years ago

    Dr. Ars…

    The pull of gravity is a result of gravity itself. Nothing external needed. Gravity is described as a geometric property of space and time, or space-time. I urge you to attempt to understand it.

  26. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    To Maggie  it is how approach   interpret or understand the book. Next the way you just clumped the the creation  together is not  understood in that order.
    First it gives you a preview, then the next section tells you details . Like a movie , you have previews with out all the details then you go see the movie to get the whole picture. Also did you read the post about Miochondrial Eve notice details on the subject at Wikipedia . How scientist have discovered that we all are related to one female.
    interesting!

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      yes, one female in Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago.

  27. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    To Maggie  it is how you  approach  and interpret or understand the book. Next the way you just clumped the the creation  together is not  understood in that order.
    First it gives you a preview, then the next section tells you details . Like a movie , you have previews with out all the details then you go see the movie to get the whole picture. Also did you read the post about Miochondrial Eve notice details on the subject at Wikipedia . How scientist have discovered that we all are related to one female.
    interesting!

  28. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    How far can you trace your family tree? This is a lot of research.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      A few generations, but we have plenty of evidence of human existence on earth.

  29. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    I agree with some reports on Wikipedia , but the information about the location of the garden was described here!  The traditional location for the garden of Eden has long been suggested to have been a mountainous area some 225 km (140 mi) SW of Mount Ararat and a few kilometers S of Lake Van, in the eastern part of modern Turkey. That Eden may have been surrounded by some natural barrier, such as mountains, could be suggested by the fact that cherubs are stated to have been stationed only at the E of the garden, from which point Adam and Eve made their exit.—Ge 3:24.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Okay, well. You can go with that information or go with the vast amounts of facts that contradicts the bible's story that human existence started a few thousand years ago in modern day Turkey. To do that you'll have to toss out the genetic and fossil records, are you okay with that?

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The difference here is that man has been known to get facts wrong because of imperfection .
        But there is always a truth to be recognized rather people accept it or not , yes man had a part in writing the bible as secretaries , but know they are God's thoughts and morals  and laws, the bible is a history log that gives dates and information of our human existence and how to keep existing.
        There is no other book that can explain why we grow old and die when it seems we have perfect health. As an example you buy a brand new car, what comes with it instruction, the manual of how to get the best use out of your vehicle . Would you throw it away and say I do not believe in it because
        That book is written by people I do not know, so they do not exist, I do not know who really made this car so no need for this manual or book.
        We have a wonderful manual in the bible and it covers history,wisdom, dates, birth, death, health issues, food interest, also science of the earth, along with that it also tells the  finally of things to come ,all rolled in that book
        There is no other book that does that. It is Devine!

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Are you kidding me? The bible condones slavery and killing disobedient children. It explains that the universe was made in days rather billions of years. We have concrete knowledge of how old the universe is which is in direct opposition to what the bible says.

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You read a book not with the right understanding of its content. First the days written are not in human years! A day to God can be thousand or billions of years,
            Next you mention slavery to what? The word is used but not in a negative understanding.
            Your understand of this book is really based on wrong knowledge . That does not make your standing truthful. Compared to the real meaning of years ,and certain words.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Not really as a day is described as "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day" which is a perfect description of what a day is.

              You are kidding right? Slavery is also described perfectly as owning other people and Paul even goes so far as telling slaves to behave for their owners rather than telling the owner to set them free.
              My understand of the bible is perfectly sound, thanks again. I understand what a day is and I understand that it's not moral or ethical to keep slaves. Do you?

              1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
                Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'd like to know how a day and night passed for 4 days before their god made the sun.

                Also, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that a day equals anything but a day.  You can't pick and choose what you want to believe versus what you'd gloss over.

                And how in the heck is slavery anything but horrendous?

        2. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Kiss and Tales, if you are teaching this stuff to others, heaven help us!

          Believe it for all it's worth for your own understanding.... but declare it as down-to-earth "truth," and you are living in cloud-cuckoo land.

  30. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Example Adam lived to be 930 years of age. Notice that God said to Adam in the day he eat he will surely die.
    Reference Bible Ge 2:17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”
    Adams life span in our time was 930 years ,before a thousands years was up he died.
    And that is possible our genes and cells repair and renew by seconds. So people were meant to live not die.

  31. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    If you interpret that way that is what you get from it ,not what I get.
    Yes that understanding in our time line explains it that way.
    But as the scriptures says our thoughts are not his thoughts, Reference Bible Isa 55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts.  Again Adam ate the fruit did he die that same day no because he lived. 930 years which was a longtime to birth other humans ,Cain and Able. So those days are not literal they are symbolic of his days .
    A slave can have a bad meaning if you use it that way. But many times people work hard at many Jobs for pay. They slave for a living to make ends meet, that does not mean what slavery of abuse has done with people in the past.
    It simply means to work hard at what you do in agreement ,not abuse.
    Sometimes people would borrow and owe money and could never pay the debt so they would work their debt off by being hired hands. Simple.
    There were Jobs similar in the bible accounts, there is no account of anyone being beat or mistreated . And to add they wanted to stay even after they paid their debt.
    I here what you are saying but that is not what the bible betrays.

    1. Maggie Bonham profile image88
      Maggie Bonhamposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Umm, they didn't use "slavery" figuratively.  You are using a book that has been translated into English from whatever languages it was translated from originally.  Some of the translations go through different languages altogether.

      Slavery meant slavery.  There was no such thing as good slavery.

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting. What else did the bible lie about? Slavery is not slavery, days are not days, Jesus didn't tell you how to beat your slaves. And only you are capable of explaining the lies to us? Please tell us more oh great teacher. wink

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Have you read the bible at all?

      Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
      However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you.You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property,passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way.

      Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
      When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.

      Exodus 21:20-21 NLT
      If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

      Notice all the selling and beating?

  32. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    From Adam and eves other children Remember Adam lived to be 930 years of age. They had children that had children.
    Remember after the first murder, there was a law that a murder could run to refuge. And no one was allowed to take his life. This was the case with Able   
    Reference Bible Ge 4:15 At this Jehovah said to him: “For that reason anyone killing Cain must suffer vengeance seven times.” And so Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him should strike him.

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The point you seem to be missing or just purposely avoiding is that the children of Adam and their children had no one to mate with but each other.

      In short, incest. Same with Noah and the flood.

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man.”  Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

      Later…

      So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

      Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch.

      No mention of any births of girls for Cain to marry. Are girls not worthy of discussion?

    3. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      K & T, you really believe that a man lived for 930 years??????  And that throughout that time he was able to have sex with women reproduce??????

      Please Please come out of your world of make-believe and join with the real world.

      1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
        Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        There are plenty of organisms that live for hundreds of years and trees that can live for thousands. Why is it so hard to believe that man at one time also enjoyed such longevity?

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If you believe that and give any time to thinking about it, you presumably have nothing better to do except dream.  Why would you need to believe such nonsense?
          A few trees around the world live to such an age.... very decrepid they become in later years too.
          A few humans live to well beyond a century.  If you think Adam was one man living to over 900, do you suppose that was common among men?  Why are you interpreting ancient texts in such a literal manner?
          Is it just to impress your peers in that church which you aspire to?
          You academic studies might make you a scholar.  So please let us hear some honest and enlightened understanding.

          1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
            Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "“Fewer people [in the United States] die from infectious diseases or the complications of childbirth,” says Scientific American magazine. “Infant mortality is down by 75 percent since 1960.” But science has met with limited success in extending adult longevity. “Even after decades of research, aging largely remains a mystery,” says another edition of Scientific American. However, “evidence suggests that aging may occur when genetic programs for development go awry.” The article continues: “If aging is primarily a genetic process, conceivably it could one day be preventable.”"

            http://bit.ly/1oBSGtU

  33. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    This also showed that there were communities were there was sign posted.

  34. oceansnsunsets profile image87
    oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago

    It is a lot more likely that God does exist, than does not exist.  The universe gives us clues, as well as humanity, and history, etc.  With all that, comes the ability to deny any such thing, but not with good reasoning that I have ever seen, in an open and honest search.

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Sure. However, it is less likely that a  specific god, say the christian one, exists than a non specific creator does.

      There is absolutely nothing that points to a specific god existing outside of all man made religions that assert one exists.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Well there is no book that says man made a man?  Just birth had taken place after their making.
        Interest even in science the body proves order , nothing just happens as out of order .Example if we were to throw a pile of spaghetti sticks on the floor should they be organized . No each time you throw them they would fall different without order. Mans body to every detail is in order ,even by tempeture .
        Most Doctors can count on the exact action and systems that the body does.
        That is just not mishap.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
          Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Odd - 99% of the species that have ever existed are now extinct. What a wasteful Invisible Super Being. Can't even create something properly without killing off 99% of them. I think if I was going to worship an Invisible Super Being, I would think one up that got it right first time. wink

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Reference Bible Mt 24:22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. 
            This shows that God is about saving lives. Satan is the manslayer who talked Eve into eating the fruit and Adam followed .
            The spirit angle as a manslayer from that point knowing that they would die if they went against their maker.
            He wanted worship just by telling them a lie to do what was wrong.
            His tactic is still the same do what you want ,do what God dislikes you will not die
            The fact that we all are born genetically to die from our genes proves God word is reliable.
            But as we can see a cure was made in our behalf .why let satan keep you from receiving it .
            We live for a purpose and that purpose will continue rather people believe it or not
            The paradise God set up from the beginning has not been scrapped. Yes for a moment delayed just to prove we need it. We will still have a clean beautiful earth ahead. And we will still have a paradise earth. And the injustice of death will end. Returned will be many loved ones of Family and friends
            This is what life has to offer ahead of us .

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
              Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              This is fantastic nonsense. So far removed from reality I find it hard to believe a grown man/woman would swallow such stuff. The only reason I can image you would is that you are so scared of being dead you will believe anything. Or perhaps you have lost people and cannot accept that they are gone? I don't know.

              I want no such part of this pathetic, needy god you describe.

              There is no injustice in death. Death is a part of life.

            2. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I have never known The true God to force love on anyone .So you are free as anyone to make your choice. And the same  reason why some one would believe it is the same reason you will not it is about choice.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
                Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                To a certain extent it is a choice. Your story makes no sense and has absolutely no evidence to back it up, so I "choose," not to believe you. You choose to believe it for whatever reasons you do. Certainly not evidence or common sense.

        2. Link10103 profile image80
          Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Assuming that because man exists, god must as well , which in itself is a logical fallacy i think, where in our existence does it prove that your Specific god and your god only exists?

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Because all things man create are in the likeness of what God has already made. The bible says God is love.
            Are you capable of love . Who created the word or language.
            Who gave all the animals their names did you?
            Our history is explained and the meaning of what our situation of the challenge
            Does the Heavenly Father have a right to rule his creations .satan challenge it with you will not die
            That is truth because we all have experience the pain of it.
            There is no reason not to understand it.

        3. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Except of course for the body parts that we still contain from our ancestors that have no function rendering them superfluous, for example the muscles we have to move our ears that don't work.

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No clues at all - sorry - only your need to believe you are saved from death. The chances of your god existing are rather small. 13.8 billion years to wait for us to come along? Really? Think about that for a moment or two.

    3. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The problem is it's not open and honest because believers have to much to lose to look at the question honestly.

      1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
        Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I resent the implication that I am not open and honest. Which is what os was saying.

        "If you don't agree with me that there is an Invisible Super Being then you must not have looked openly and honestly." sad

  35. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Genesis 5:3  Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth. 4 After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.

  36. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    You missed the last post you missed Seth! And after sons and Daughters were born
    Gen 5:3

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Seth, according to the story came after Cain had already married.

  37. Elizabeth Li 1991 profile image82
    Elizabeth Li 1991posted 2 years ago

    I think no one can really know if god exists, even they believe, they can not confirm.

    1. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The sanest response I have seen lately in regards to anything religious.

      You must be an angel in disguise...

    2. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
      Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The Irrefutable Case For The Necessary Existence Of God: http://bit.ly/1197U6R

  38. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    What are you so afraid of JC there is no threat but an offer of truth and information There is no money involved either, you accept it or not .why do you attack the subject so much. It is because it is the truth so you try to block others from hearing it. By being negative. Sorry that will not work, people have the right to decide if it is what they are looking for or want to here. I do not debate with you. I do not call you names . So do me the same courtesy.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Also my posted answer to people living 930 years as written is it impossible read what science and history says about human life and longevity. Wikipedia
      Notice what science and History has revealed as proof!
      A centenarian is a person who lives to or beyond the age of 100 years. Because average global life expectancies are less than 100, the term is invariably associated with longevity. A supercentenarian is a person who has lived to the age of 110 or more, something only achieved by about one in 1,000 centenarians. Even rarer is a person who has lived to age 115 – there are only 34 people in recorded history who have indisputably reached this age, of whom only Misao Okawa, Gertrude Weaver, Jeralean Talley, Susannah Mushatt Jones, and Bernice Madigan are still living.[1][2][3] In 2012, the United Nations estimated that there were 316,600 living centenarians worldwide.[4] As life expectancy is increasing across the world, the population of centenarians is expected to raise significantly in the future.[5] According to ONS, one third of babies born in 2013 in the UK are expected to live to 100.[6]
      The oldest verified living person is 115-year-old Emiliano Mercado del Toro from Puerto Rico. He wasborn August 21, 1891.
      102-year-old Samuel Downing, a veteran of the American Revolutionary War, in 1864.
      Notice what a history and science has as proof!

      Plants

      Until 2013, the oldest individual tree in the world was Methuselah, a 4,845-year-old Great Basin bristlecone pine (Pinus longaeva) in the White Mountains of California.

      The next oldest tree on the list is a national monument in Iran: The Zoroastrian Sarv (Sarv-e-Abarkooh), estimated to be about 4,000 years old, or older. This Mediterranean cypress tree (Cupressus sempervirens), which is in Abarkuh, Yazd, Iran, may well be the oldest living thing in Asia.

      Reference Bible Ge 1:29 And God went on to say: “Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 

      Man was in charge of the plants and animals giving them names ,and cultivating the earth with plants . He was in charge of it all.

      Animals

      Ocean Quohog – 507 years old

      Bowhead Whales
      Oldest Living Mammals on Earth – 211 years old

      “Adwaita” the Aldabra Giant Tortoise – 256 years old
      This is proof through science that it is possible for humans to live long . It was not meant for humans to die as animals because they were to care for everything.
      Adam and Eve cut their life short and ours too.
      But there has been a cure paid for us.
      It is a cure not forced. Because it is a gift from God. Many will accept many will not.
      Accepting accurate knowledge is a start to pass in the the New World.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image86
        jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        So sorry to obstruct your reasoning, but "This is proof through science that it is possible for humans to live long . It was not meant for humans to die as animals because they were to care for everything." just does not cut it!
        First, humans are animals.
        Secondly, "...to live long" needs to be qualified.   115 years is not in any way similar to 930 years, so the argument is a bit far-fetched.

        1. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There is not a error in the statement but an error again in how you read and understand JC the statement "was not meant for humans to die as animals " is true animals die and are not able to return from death. Humans are considered more valuble then animals ( Reference Bible Mt 10:31 Therefore have no fear: YOU are worth more than many sparrows.)
          So with that thought humans are suppose to outlive animals.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            LOL. So it all comes down to how long we live. A turtle is more valuable than a dog...

            1. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No ! animals are not more valuable then you RM there is nothing funny about that.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What's funny is, you put value on life. I hate to break this to you but we are animals.

                1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It seems I give you more credit then you do yourself . No we are not animals. An animals cells are not made like humans.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh dear me. You should spend a little time reading about biology before making a comment like that. We are in our most basic sense Multicellular organisms. For that reason human like all multicellular  organisms (long living animals in particular) are susceptible to cancers.

                  2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey, K & T !!!!   You and I are animal!   DNA.  Open your eyes, my Dear.   Open your mind to something more down-to-earth than that head-in-the-clouds position that you seem to enjoy.
                    smile  smile  smile

          2. jonnycomelately profile image86
            jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "Humans are considered more valuble then animals....."  To get such an understanding from a small clause written in an ancient text shows again your narrow, blinkered desire to promote humans over everything else.

            Yes, as an animal species we individually fight to sustain our life when threatened.  Self defense it is called.  This might indicate that we claim more importance for our own life over the life of an animal that threatens us.  Yet, the dogma that presumes to set us apart as "special" is ugly.  I reject it totally.

            This points to the reason I feel we humans have lost the way...... we find it difficult/inconvenient to see our selves totally integrated with a world of great diversity.   Instead of "melding" with the other life forms around us, learning to live in harmony, we set ourselves up, superior to everything else and either push everything else away; or kill it; or starve it into extinction; or take away its shelter..... etc.
            Do anything but learn to live with it.

            This is my major reason for rejecting christianity as preached by christians.

    2. Link10103 profile image80
      Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      By saying that your words are the truth, to then say that people have a choice to accept whether or not its the truth, still asserts that what you are saying is truth regardless of whatever choice the person makes.

      In a simpler sense, you arent even considering the possibility that you are wrong and that anyone who does not concede to your truth is obviously in the wrong. Which is arrogant. To the extreme.

      Truth has multiple sources, facts and evidence to back it up. If the latter is lacking, then your truth simply becomes your opinion, which no one is obligated to follow in the slightest.

  39. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Because there is no possibility of wrong in the truth. The truth  stands as it is , a lie is what changes. It is up to you to accept it as truth.
    I do not doubt it at a 100% percent . And really if that was my last words to speak it would be these.

    1. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Also just because you or anyone reject it does not mean it is not the truth.

      1. Link10103 profile image80
        Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And just because you accept it as truth does not make it truth, and then You wonder why people disagree and debate with you. You really have no right to get annoyed with people who ask you to prove yourself when you assert such things without considering the incredibly high possibility that you are wrong, or at the very least not 100% right. The simple fact that there are hundreds of different denominations of followers of christ should tell you that your truth is not absolute.

        1. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          No it is not a debate it is what it is I posted science info , I also gave some information to think about
          But no one who disagrees is showing no proof at all of why they see a different picture it is like they have no proof . But they will stone you for yours. That does not change what is real .explain what makes this not real.

          1. Link10103 profile image80
            Link10103posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I agree that what you posted is science info. The only thing not scientific about it is that that info somehow proves man is capable of living up to 900 years, when even the oldest animals on earth dont even come close to that age. A whale is not a human, a tortoise is not a human, a clam is not a human, and a tree is certainly not a human. I personally dont see how anyone can see a turtle that has lived for 2 centuries and automatically come to the conclusion that man can live for 9 centuries, or how a tree has survived 4 thousand years + and come to the same conclusion.

            Our medical technology has skyrocketed in simply the past century let alone the past 2 millennia, yet the highest age anyone seems to have reached is 115 or so years old, and at that point they are practically decrepit and/or senile.



            So, did you just wake up one morning with the voice of god in your head then? I wasnt assuming that you get your instructions from humans or the church, I was assuming that you follow the bible due to how much you quote from it. Still does not change the fact that there are hundreds of denominations who interpret what you think as absolute truth in a completely different way from yourself, which automatically puts into question its validity.

            1. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              To answer you link10103
              I will give you an example. Gold is Gold ,You can take it and mix it with other metals, you can even find elements of metals that are close to it. Like fools gold . But even those these exist ,does solid gold exist? Yes. The world and the many religions have allowed them self to become the mix elements . Not keeping  pure to the real truth.
              Being contaminated by mans thinking. Many see the Hippocrates in most religions and none religion ,because it really boils down to who you are that makes religion what it is. And if not religious ,what is the excuse for being hateful, you can not blame religion because you avoid it and denounce it . It is Not a building, not a neck band, not a suite . It is people personally that make its name.
              The Gold of truth is still available . But there are those who will not allow the treasure of it to be gotten.
              Some one related a story about crabs in a barrel . In an store were a barrel of live crabs , full to the top
              The little boy says why don't the crabs just fall out of the barrel . The Dad says look closely  and the son came  closer and noticed that every crab that reach the top never came out because other crabs were grabbing and pulling them back down into the barrel  ,Not one crab escape. 
              Sometimes people do the same thing with the truth.

          2. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Why was he banned?
            I have heard meany mean insults , and mockery  so I do not think it could be that .yet I never wish any one to be banned , And really that happens ! Wow!  You know I guess we can not be sure of what and how people really feel. I hope that I never offend any hubber . All I just want is for others to share a Joy of truth.

            1. Sed-me profile image83
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Something about threatening to call someone a jerk. He didn't actually call them that, but apparently you can be banned for that.

              It amazes me what certain ppl get away while others do their best to stand up under the barrage of insults, but when you start to lose your cool, or it appears that you could lose your cool... poof. Goodbye.

              1. Jomine Jose profile image78
                Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                How can you find out why one is banned?  I got a six day ban two weeks back,  but I have no idea why.

                1. Sed-me profile image83
                  Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  email the staff.

                2. Aime F profile image83
                  Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm guessing yours was for the same reason as mine (and a couple of others participating in that thread about atheists and infanticide) - because someone was report happy. smile

                  I don't really get why people are so quick to hit the 'report' button unless it's truly tasteless. Kind of suggests that some people can't have a real discussion so they'd rather the person they're discussing with just be taken away completely.

        2. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Also I do not get my instructions or approval from humans or any church! You see that is an assumption on your part that is a 100% wrong .

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Making the presumption that your own perception of "the Truth" is the correct one, and the only correct one, is both arrogant and self-deception at the same time.

  40. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    First I am well aware of what I posted I posted the animals as well to prove a point Adam was the care taker ,he was the one who name the animals . Death was not suppose to be his future because the animals outlived their caretaker. Man was suppose to live longer even eternal but they betrayed their maker and listen to the voice of satan. That was the point. You are questioning the knowledge if I thought you were really interested it would be my greatest Joy. But you as well as others mock and scorn what is said you do not need to know my source. Because enough has been said . Thank you for reading my post Link10103 and others.

  41. Grabbestoffers profile image60
    Grabbestoffersposted 2 years ago

    Great blog and very nice theme !! Thanks for share this information.http://www.grabbestoffers.com/store/flipkart-com-discount-coupons-offers-vouchers-promo-code-deal/.

  42. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
    Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago

    Are you hard of reading? The argument presented explains the difference between the perception of time and analytical measures of time.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Really? That is the problem with cut and pasting arguments you have not formulated yourself.

      If there is no time - there is no perception or analytical measurement. And - as human perception was not existing for the first 13.8 billion years, we must rely on actual measurement of time.

      But I think it is awesome that you can now prove to me that there was a time where nothing existed. You will win a Nobel prize for sure. wink

  43. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
    Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago

    Seeing as how All-Loving God is eternal, the fact that there were no human minds to perceive time is irrelevant.

    1. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Odd that you bought it up in that case. As it is irrelevant. Why did you cut and paste that?

      Speaking of fallacious argumentum assertios...... Care to prove your claims?

    2. jonnycomelately profile image86
      jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Ah!  But if the perception of that "All-loving God" is dependent on the human mind, then how could such a god exist without the human mind?
      Don't depend on the mind of Craig for answer to this one.  I would be glad to have it directly from your own enlightened mind - the one you are (hopefully) still able to think with.

      1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
        Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The very same way any sentient being exists independent of any mind ...

        1. jonnycomelately profile image86
          jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The mind.... is it the brain?   Or is it the function of a brain? 

          Can there be a function of brain if brain does not exist?

          The "god" you so often speak of has no form.  That "god" is infinite, not measurable.  You and I cannot even envisage exactly the nature or form of such a "god" because it has no form - so our imagination comes into play.

          Your perception of a "god" will differ from the the perception of any one else.  Your perception will suit your needs.  You will design that perception to suit your self. 

          I suggest to you that your "God" with a capital G is only, totally, completely within the function of your own mind.  And, since the function of your mind is to produce abstract representations of reality, then there is in fact no "real" god, only a perception of one.  In order to describe that god, you do as every other person has done down through history:---- you invent one and try to describe it's attributes in metaphor.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You forgot to add:
            "According to the way I see it…" or something to that effect.

            1. jonnycomelately profile image86
              jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I happily stand corrected.  Thank you Kathryn.

          2. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
            Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That's a Strawman. Once Christ was resurrected , he “entered . . . into heaven itself , now to appear before the person of God for us .” ( Hebrews 9 :24 ) This demonstrates a couple of significant elements relating to God Almighty . For starters , he has a location where he resides . Furthermore , he is actually a Person , not merely some ineffable force that pervades all of reality .


            The Scriptures plainly inform us that God Almighty possesses a body as well as revealing he is situated in the heavens. (cf. Matthew 6:9; John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 15:44) Put simply, he possesses corporealness and therefore locality.

            Understanding that, in fact, each and every heavenly spirit possesses corporealness makes it substantive when the Scriptures refer to God relative to his spirit creatures:

            "Micaiah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left." -1 Kings 22:19

            "“I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days [Jehovah God] sat down. A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him." -Daniel 9:9,10 (Bracket mine.)


            The Holy Bible additionally explains that our Creator bears a personal name , Jehovah , and even unveils his personality to us . It reveals that his most distinguished traits are love , justice , wisdom , together with power . ( Deuteronomy 32 :4 ; Job 12 :13 ; Isaiah 40 :26 ; 1 John 4 :8 ) The Scriptures informs us , likewise , that he is certainly merciful , kind , forgiving , big-hearted , as well as patient .

            Personality is the blend of traits or attributes that pattern an individual's unique persona . It is the aggregation of all the attributes--behavioral , temperamental , emotional as well as mental--that represent a distinct individual . It is the manifestation of individual values , hopes , aspirations , principles , and behaviors . In effect, personality is to a particular person as culture would be to a group .

            Seeing as personality is the quality or fact of being a person as distinguished from a particular thing or creature it follows that Jehovah God is absolutely a person .

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Unfortunately, "The Scriptures plainly inform us" of many things that are patently false.  That God flooded the entire world.  That the universe was created in 7 days, including the earth.  That the first woman was made from the rib of an already existing man.  And on, and on, and on.  There is little reason to believe much at all that is in the bible.

              1. Joseph O Polanco profile image47
                Joseph O Polancoposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                And just what is your evidence of these purported falsehoods?

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You cannot break through a carnal (materialistic) mindset Mr. Polanco. It's a God contrived veil of delusion (for a specific reason) --(it creates freewill) . Our reality appears deterministic to me, so whether atheist or believer, reality has a will (agency) of it's own. Therefore, it is freewill to accept or deny that will, (the only real choice anyone has). Personally, I like PSR over kalam, btw.

                  1. PhoenixV profile image79
                    PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    A carnal mind is in causal-loop land. It's like trying to explain liquid water to a neanderthal that has been frozen in permafrost for a 100,000 years. You try to explain the concept of liquidity and they can't even muster a will to even butt their superfluous brow against the ice encasement, allegorically speaking.

                  2. God shet profile image60
                    God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    +

                  3. oceansnsunsets profile image87
                    oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What is PSR again?

                2. jonnycomelately profile image86
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Just keep living in your world of make-believe Jo.  I live with my feet firmly on solid ground.
                  Have fun.

                3. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That there isn't enough water on earth to flood it all.  That ALL living things would die, not just the land animals.  That it would create a so-called "nuclear winter".  That there would be nothing to eat (plant OR animal) after such a flood.  That it left no geological record.  That it didn't happen.

                  That it took some 10 billion years for the earth to form. 

                  That men come from the uterus of women.

                  I understand that your scriptures say different, but that doesn't mean they are true.  The facts and evidence say otherwise.  You will choose the words of barbarians dead for millenia, or you will choose facts and truth - my own choice is obvious.

                  But if you DO choose those words from ancient past, what is YOUR evidence?

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I can answer your list not hard at all .the thing is would you even consider the information in all fairness.
                    Would you shut logic down just to say you are right no matter what is presented . Then it would be no need to post to you if you have closed down on the subject anyway.