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Changing Landscape of HP "Religion & Philosophy" Forums ~ What's Next?

  1. God shet profile image61
    God shetposted 2 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11991743_f520.jpg

    When I first joined this site ~ I witnessed all these frail atheists bashing God lovers and other spiritualists. There was no one to protect us. We spiritualists were immensely helpless.

    But now ~ after 2 months of my active participation ~ I'm confident to say that the 'religion and philosophy' forums have been reconfigured and that spirituality is on the rise here. This might even impact the world, and we might start to experience some real changes in the world because of this takeover here.


    Thank you, comrades and well-wisher!

    1. Jomine Jose profile image81
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11991885.png

    2. Buildreps profile image94
      Buildrepsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Good work! I noticed you're a fine debater. But I won't waste my time on all the egoistic shortsighted fools on Hubpages' forums.

      1. God shet profile image61
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +1!  smile

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        Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I'd be careful who I called a fool on Hubpages, because it could get you banned for a while, maybe even forever. I see their point

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, in just a few months you have single handedly changed the universe. All hail God shet!!!!

    4. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "There was no one to protect us."

      I don't understand.  In every other religious "war" (or non-religious, for that matter), God has always fought on the side of the believer, even though that usually meant fighting on both sides at once or that there were two gods fighting the battle.  Did you need more protection that what God could give?  Was the god of the evil atheist, Reason, stronger than your god?

      (Sorry.  The picture of the evil atheist, flailing wildly about with the great Club of Reason that God gave them, and bashing all the believers in sight was too much to resist.  Maybe God fought on the side of those that used what He has given them this time.)

      1. God shet profile image61
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "There was no one to protect us."


        ~ You've misunderstood what I have said (or wanted to say). It is not any 'intellectual' discussion that anyone seeks any protection from. The problem is that some people (atheists) manipulate certain 'weak points' to repeatedly harass spiritual people.

        Al-least, that's what they used to do when I first arrived here.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Although I DO think that some DO "harass" others (I refrain from calling them "spiritual") I also think that the large majority are more concerned with teaching others to think.  To reason, to analyze, cerebrate, cogitate, study, deduce, examine, etc.  rather than make up supposed "facts" from a subjective, emotional standpoint that merely makes them feel good.  The "weak point" you reference is using "belief" as "knowledge", and yes, it is an anathema to the atheist. 

          Not to say at all that "belief" is always bad: we "believe" our baby is beautiful, that our kids are smart and that there is an ET out there that loves us and does good things for us.  It only becomes bad when we try to convince others it is knowledge or when the belief is forced onto others against their will.  And, perhaps, when we depend on that ET to give us the things we want without us having to do the work.

          1. God shet profile image61
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Very often it becomes more important how something has been done ~ rather than what has been done.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Very true, and the crux of the communication problem.  Seems to me that the question by the atheist is never "What do you believe" but rather "How and why do you come to that belief".  When the answer comes back "I believe because I believe" the atheist is unsatisfied and says so, while the believer is astounded that his belief is not immediately taken as truth.  And the fight goes on.

              1. God shet profile image61
                God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I understand that. I didn't really have you in mind when I mentioned 'spirituality bashers'. I'm not saying that you haven't done anything like that ~ but you always seem to maintain a certain level of general civility during conversations.

                What it really comes down to ~ is 'understanding'. I appreciate the fact that none of us is 'perfect'. None of us knows everything. It is quite difficult to understand even an atom to its final depth. That's where we are. And all of us need to grow and connect ~ more positively. 


                Perhaps we are the only ones who can do it ~ in the whole of the material universe.

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you.  And while I don't go out to "bash" believers, I DO have a tendency to reply in kind after a while.  To make foolish statements that I know won't be accepted because that is what the believer insists on doing.  Wrong, I know, and I do try to curb the impulse but do give in to in on occasion.

                  But the need to grow and communicate effectively absolutely is needed.  To understand not only what the speaker is saying, but why.  To understand where the speaker is coming from.  And the believer, if anything, is even more guilty of not trying than the atheist - the "bashing" goes both ways when the believer starts quoting scripture that they already know the speaker won't accept for instance.

                  1. God shet profile image61
                    God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I knew that.

                  2. Sed-me profile image81
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe you don't understand that you put rules and regulations on us that are not put on you.
                    For instance: You say to us basically, "You may defend your faith, but don't be preachy. You may say why you believe what you believe, but you may not use your foundation, the Bible. If you mention salvation, you may never mention salvation from what." And of course the qualifications go on and on. It does appear that what you would prefer is to bash our faith and have us go weak at the knees. Maybe if there were a written contract... smile

                  3. God shet profile image61
                    God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe a little 'quarrel' now and then is healthy for a 'productive' communication? We might freeze, otherwise, out of courtesy!

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            Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            God himself, is Objective, not Subjective

    5. Sed-me profile image81
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It appears you are not going to respond? We must be able to discuss issues as long as we are not being attacked and though I did offer criticism, I hope it is not harsh.

      I feel that there is so much wrong with your opening. "No one to protect us?"!!! What of God? Who is our sword and our shield? Certainly it is the word of God and His very spirit... His righteousness and mercy that aides us. You would not submit that your efforts nullify our need for Him?

      Second, and forgive me, because this is where I make a personal observation which makes it opinion and not necessarily fact, but your threads seem to me to be fluff pieces, created to give you something to do, not efforts to reach a lost and dying world or even to ignite dynamic discussion.

      I have not been a great supporter of your threads for this reason, but that doesn't mean I am against you... Saying I do not support an aspect of your posting doesn't mean I support your opponents. I believe, no matter which side we are on, we are accountable to each other for what we say. And Believers are accountable first and foremost, to God. I don't know your belief system, but I can tell you that creating threads for the purpose of rabble rousing isn't something God has called any of us to do. We share the truth as we know it. We love as Christ would love. That is our purpose.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        What I don't understand is the antagonism. It serves no purpose that Christ would have approved of. I don't see what there is such a great need to make it us vs. them. That doesn't encourage dialogue and gives the completely wrong impression about what I believe Christianity should be.

        I'm not sure what is gained for Christ by alienating people in his name. That has been the source of much of my frustration with these forums, and the reason I "side" so often with the atheists.

        1. Sed-me profile image81
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you, though as I said, I don't think of it as choosing sides. I believe the verse that says, 'Let God be true and everyman a liar.' So if a Christian is in the wrong, I will say so. If an Atheist is wrong, I will say so, but with that being said, we have to let a WHOLE lot go. I disagree with most of what the Atheist says, obviously, but I don't want to be here bashing him/her over the head all day. As far as the Christian, I wont agree with everyone's pov, but if overall I feel they are trying to do good, then who am I to nitpick? Besides the fact that, being human, I am going to flub up a lot and am also going to hope others give me grace.

          But I agree that some seem to just want to incite their adversaries and this benefits no one. Jesus never backed down from telling the truth, but neither did he pick a schoolyard fight. His aim was to win souls, to teach truth, to love, to save that which was lost.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That's why I put the "side" in quotations. In all honesty, I am harder on Christians on the bickering thing than I am on Atheists just because of that whole Am I my brother's keeper? thing. Christians are supposed to represent Christ. Cruelty, nastiness, bullying etc shouldn't be done in Christ's name. Christ's name also shouldn't be used to press an agenda, which I also see a lot. It pisses me off, quite honestly.

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        Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +100

  2. Sed-me profile image81
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Romans 12:3
    For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

    Matthew 23:12
    Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Great choice of scripture. I'm agreeing with you again.

      1. God shet profile image61
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Isn't there an old proverb around 'scriptures', and its citation purposes?

        1. Sed-me profile image81
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Speak clearly, please, so that we may have true communication.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know, is there? What is it? And how does it apply here?

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I don't know about a proverb, but there is lots of scripture about the use of the word. Generally, it is commanded that a believer use it to guide and teach, and sometimes even rebuke, brethren that are acting contrary to what we are taught.   It does warn that if the scripture is ineffective for teaching, we should get away from that person so as not to be corrupted by them.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              "It does warn that if the scripture is ineffective for teaching, we should get away from that person so as not to be corrupted by them."

              Question: do you find this rather problematical?  If one insists on being gay, or questioning the creation story or that the world was flooded should we really put them out of our lives or should we listen to what they have to say?  If one has a different (honest) interpretation of scripture, should we push them aside and ignore them?  Or should we welcome them into our circle in the hopes of learning and growing?

              I know a handful of believers that do just that; absolutely refuse to read or discuss anything contrary to their interpretation of scripture so as not to be corrupted or lose their faith, and it always seems counter-productive.  How do you grow spiritually if you already know everything there is to know?  If you have zero misconceptions or errors in your "database" of spiritual knowledge? 

              (And no, God shet, I'm not "bashing the spiritual" - an honest request for understanding is never that)

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Honestly, those scriptures are intended on giving instruction/rebuke to brothers and sisters in faith. They don't really apply to those outside the faith, they serve another master smile Just to cover that aspect.

                They also mainly apply to sinning. Having questions is not sinning, having doubts is also not sinning.

                Now with those justifications, I'm going to go ahead and add that it is also completely subjective. There are certain behaviors that my conscience screams loudly are just wrong. I'm sure some would label it the holy spirit and discernment, but it's honestly just a sense of behavior being wrong that it shouldn't be allowed to continue without at least someone speaking up. Would I avoid that person forever because of it or never let them speak again? It depends on exactly what it was, but for most things no. However if the person consistently showed several behaviors that all were wrong, I would. A difference in beliefs doesn't mean a person will "corrupt" but an entire personality of behaviors that trigger that conscience scream does.

                *Edit: I saw the gay reference and specifically chose to not address it because we all know where THAT would go.

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I understand, I think, although I'm not sure that "brothers and sisters in faith" has much to do with it.

                  I would not be interested, for instance, in having a serial child molester or rapist in my circle.  Not because I think I might be contaminated and do the same thing, but because the behavior is so disgusting that I want nothing to do with the person.

                  This I can understand, but the person that will never hear other ideas or interpretations for fear of losing their faith I can't.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The scriptures specifically say "brethren" which I take to mean as people of the same faith, i.e. brothers and sisters in Christ (or fellow Christians in this case, if the lexicon throws you... that's another discussion)

                    The scripture also kind of gives some leeway in what corruption really means. It's also subjective. I can hear different arguments all day without fear of losing my faith. Different opinions just aren't a threat to me. However being around nasty, bullying people is. The overwhelming desire to slap someone upside the head is a definite threat to my Christianity. I guess for others, exposure to new ideas acts the same way.What each person sees as a threat depends on that person, I guess is what I'm saying.

                    I had a situation where another person was claiming to be a prophet. I perceived this as a threat because the Bible specifically says to get away from such people. This person continued to follow me and I felt soiled after each interaction. Other Christians were fine with it. See, subjective. Faith often is.

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                Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I agree with you on this.
                Because I am Jewish, and believe differently from the other religions,  people call me a false prophet,,!?? Yet the bible was written in Hebrew, and a few verses in Aramaic.
                The four Gospels translated into English, was written in Greek, yet Yahshua spoke Hebrew.
                But people reject the Hebrew meaning of scripture's

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I take back my above answer, I guess there really are several proverbs about it.

            Proverbs 10:17
            Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

            Proverbs 19:20
            Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future.

            Proverbs 12:15
            The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.

          3. God shet profile image61
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose



            ~ I didn't mean that you are a 'devil' or something like that. But when you - who have displayed your dislike for scriptures (Bible, and the rest) so many times - stamps your favorable approval on one piece of writing that belongs to it - generates a feeling that resembles that proverb above.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Are you calling Beth the devil, it was her who posted the scripture. I just thought it was on target.

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          Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Say that again !?

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      +1

  3. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    Maybe day this will not be a forum where we are excited to genuinely learn about each others beliefs rather than just playing mutual whack-a-mole.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    God shet, I don't mind your confidence. Carry on. Someone has to do it!

  5. Bubblegum Senpai profile image86
    Bubblegum Senpaiposted 2 years ago

    Now, is there anyone to protect Atheists, agnostics, and seculars from harassment to people who prefer religion? I stopped coming to these forums mainly because it seems both sides were attacking each other non-stop and both sides were being jerks.

    I mean Atheists don't have a moral high ground outside of reason (and a reasonable man should know right from wrong), but the religious side has giant books telling it's believers to not judge one another, to turn the other cheek, to forgive seven times seventy times, to love others as their deity has loved them, and to take care of the poor and broken. So religious guys, what's your excuse?

    I mean, I have a spiritual leaning, but often get pushed away from expressing it, because frankly, both sides - religious AND nonreligious - just seem to strike me as being jerks.

    1. Sed-me profile image81
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well, if I have ever been a jerk (which is altogether possible), I do apologize. I think most ppl have good intentions. It is a hot topic and it pushes a lot of buttons on both sides, but we choose to enter these specific threads, so we have some idea what to expect. The typical reader, but non-participant might not.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I'm afraid the feeling could be mutual, they may see you as the jerk...especially if you call anyone else one

  6. Sed-me profile image81
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    What the heck happened to Radman?

 
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